>

You forgot about makeup, shaving, skin care, and all the other things women do to fit the standard. x
Actors take a huge amount of steroids. Those Men’s Health “so and sos crazy work out plan for that movie, look what you can accomplish in 6 weeks” are all bs. Im sure they train hard when they need to, but they also take steroids. >

"Raw chicken, broccoli, and water!"
And enough steroids to fuel an entire Mr. Universe pageant. >

Chicken breast, broccoli and water = anabolic steroids
That's the code they use. Just like prisoners have their own code by saying that they're all innocent. Or how bankers and traders have their code that they only sell things to willing buyers at the fair market price.
And bodybuilders also don't tell you that they swallow a bunch of other shit to counter the body from creating counter hormones to try to balance the shit out. Bob, the guy from Fight Club? The one with the big bitch tits? That's a real thing if you don't know what you're doing. >

Just to balance the scales, because it's a vital service to mankind, there ARE natty lifters. And it IS possible to gain.
Thing is, nobody wants to do it that way. Too slow. Too hard. Too many restrictions. Too much work. Etc. etc. And all that, just to end up with a 'lesser' physique than the ones who juiced.
It's a losing calculation for anyone under the age of 20 or anyone trying to be 'competitive'. Which should but does not, often enough at least, translate into stop caring what the roid-heads look like and stop making big decisions when you still can't buy your own alcohol.
Struggled with this shit plenty in my teens and 20s. Even went to a Urologist and whined that I wasn't built like the Hulk at one point. Every other person there was in their 70s. Instantly weird.
Doc told me, listen, I'll give it to your stupid ass if your stupid ass is stupid enough to be stubborn, but you don't want it. Men who can't make babies are a lot more unhappy than men who can't build muscle. >

I've contemplated doing roids as well. Several times in my life it's been really tempting. From a very young age I always had a fascination to be big. Everyone has their point of inspiration where a switch is flicked. For the older generation it's Pumping Iron. For me it was Dragonball Z.
Fortunately I only started to comprehend in my early 20s what roids actually are and what they can do for you. How? Of course: via people at the gym. It's the nr.1 breeding ground for roidies. Multiple times in my life came very close to get on it, but then always the fear of the unknown stopped me. That last part for example that you mention, of not being able to make babies, that's a big one. Other risks like increased risk of cancer, dead sex-drive, hairloss are big as well. The biggest for me is the that if you stop roids, that it can take a full year before your natural testosterone production comes online again. Absence of testosterone would probably lead me to suicide.
The idea still lingers of 'one day to start start using and get my dream body'. The 'what if' will never go away. But the older I get, the more I can settle on a lean and okay toned body.
And as for professional bodybuilding. Modern bodybuilding is a perversion compared to Arnold's days. Big fkn quads and that DISGUSTING bubble gut. I can only appreciate a classic V shape. >

Yeah roids would be great wouldn't they, if your natural testosterone comes back at all and you don't blow your heart out first like Zyzz.
Great aesthetics, tiny brain 🧠
Bodybuilders were always trying to push the limits and I'm still amazed sometimes when I catch a video or some pictures of just what the human body can be pushed to. Still doesn't make it a good idea.
Like sure you can get your car up to 180mph, whoopie, but not without voiding the warranty.
Just get tested at the docs and if you're not diagnosed with hypogonadism go home, stfu, and move heavy objects. Repeat as necessary. >

This subject really hit home for me because of one scene in the movie The Wolverine, specifically an article that was written about it. The scene in question shows Hugh Jackman looking particularly ripped and that level of muscle definition was only achieved because he dehydrated himself for something like 36 hours and, afterwards, ended up in a coma for three days. But images like that set a standard that is not possible to achieve through natural or healthy means. >

It's a classic move, you take an actor, have them get super pumped and dehydrated, and put in ONE scene where they're shirtless near the beginning of the film then cover them up for the rest.  Captain America- comes out of the pod and immediately shirts up for the next scene.  The Wolverine, obviously.  Guardians of the Galaxy as soon as they break out of prison Star Lord is shirtless.  Ant Man Paul Rudd shows off for a scene.  While some of the scenes end up later, the theme is ONE short scene, often unimportant, where the character is shirtless.  Even a lot of films like the new Thor make it a gag where there are women who have to very much notice and react. >

Thank you. It’s the same for women - unnecessary single nude scene. All this unrobing is utterly unnecessary. I’m not into men who are ripped. I’m naturally thin but prefer normal bods with a bit of flab. Why? It shows that you don’t spend insane amounts of time worrying about how you look until it becomes an obsession bordering on  narcissism. Give me Christian Bale over The Rock any other day. Maybe it’s just me.
Edit : I am not referring to Christian Bale as Batman but as Ken Miles in Ford vs Ferrari. Christian Bale has several great roles. He is more than just Batman. >

💀 Bale is fit and has even been pretty bulky, main difference is the amount of steroids the rock is using vs Bale who is most likely natural. Women truly have no idea what it takes to get a "normal" body, nor any idea what they really want. Just going to prove this posts point. >

Firstly, I hate batman so that’s not the Christian Bale shape and role I’m talking about.
Secondly, I’m talking about Christian Bale as Ken Miles in Ford vs Ferrari. 
It shows how shallow your mind was in going immediately to batman Bale. It’s also ignorant not to know that Bale comes in many shapes and forms as an actor. His acting is excellent and is more than batman.
Thirdly, my husband has a dad bod. He was extremely fit but I prefer a bit of flab and so the waistline grew and the muscles left. 
So you prove that you have no idea what you’re talking about other than assuming and making a fool of yourself. >

Would you have been happier if they had said the machinist? >

I think it’s shit for both parties but for entirely different reasons. Body dysmorphia sucks ass. >

This, and only this. It doesn't matter who has it worse, we can all work towards a more inclusive world for everyone. >

Except there is nearly zero effort to include men into body positivity movements. I mean fat men and small cocks are still the butt of many jokes. 
We can all say we will work towards inclusiveness for everyone but the fact is no one, at least no one who can make a difference, cares about men's body image or mental health >

This is always how it goes. Women can bring up all their own particular issues, and will shut down any mention of men’s similar experience. But then when men bring up their issues, people always say “well this isn’t really a men’s issue, this is a problem for everyone!” >

Pattinson has the build of a pro athlete in the Batman, yet people say he's way too skinny. Apparently, martial arts masters and strong and athletic guys are incredibly bulky with gigantic muscles. >

Pattinson actually refused to work out for the twilight movies. In all his shirtless shots, he has very defined but quite gummy looking abs, and it's because they were painted on with makeup. >

Its hard for both. Comparing struggles doesnt do anything for us. >

Expect for when a woman opens the conversation. >

This is a rare case of bad title but interesting post. 
I think the issue stems from the portrayal of men in media in general when men and women are selected for their look on film thus creating an artificially high societal standard for beauty. >

However, is anyone even expecting guys to look like this? 
A guy being buff is like the last thing any of the women I've known care about. It's like an added bonus but only if it doesn't consume too much of his time, but that's about it. Unless the girl herself is obsessed with working out. >

Seeing as men can’t change their face/height without surgical intervention, their physique is the one thing they can.
Yes, personality matters a lot, but the door won’t be open if you don’t pass the looks threshold. >


but the door won’t be open if you don’t pass the looks threshold.

Do we live in the same world? Of the guys that I know that are in relationships, none of them look anywhere close to this supposed ''threshold''. 
The single guys are sometimes even better looking but unsurprisingly they generally have low energy/depressed/negative/bitter/not fun personalities. >

Let me guess: the biggest lady’s man you know is short, ugly, and poor? >

I wouldn't say they're ugly. They're just... very average to put it lightly, in height as well as looks. Not poverty level, no, people have jobs usually, but still lower class. No excessive wealth here. And they're not lady men either, most are after long term stuff so haven't been single for years. But they did get the door open. >

They also are in sexless relationships most likely. There’s a reason women rarely desire their partners long term. >

That's a massive assumption to make. And not exactly relevant either. >

I agree. As someone who is part of the bodybuilding community the dysmorphia can really mess with you.
"I can't see my abs anymore I have to cut, I'm fat"
"My weight isn't increasing, the gym isn't working"
"I want to look like (actor)." Not realizing that the physique isn't natural.
It's hard for both men and women. >

The bar for "healthy" bodyfat levels in the workout community is so fucked. So many people saying you should have visible abs etc. (Looking at you Greg Doucette) when that isn't necessary at all. Like you're not giving people actual health advice based on facts, you just mixed in your aesthetics standards and worry over a bit of fat. >

Greg Doucette is one of the only ones who don't encourage a Six-pack. Tf do you mean? He's always about maingain and a healty bodyfat. >

It’s just as bad in the sense that media portrays men unrealistically just as it does for women. However, it is worse for women simply because society as a whole tends to value women exclusively for their looks, which is not really true for men. So, IMO, women are much more likely to develop some form of body dysmorphia from the unrealistic portrayals. >

It's clearly much worse for women. It's just some delusional stuff to put men and women anywhere close together when it comes to beauty standards. Like, the makeup industry is a half trillion dollar industry, is there anything remotely comparable for men? >

Its worse for women because women are their own worst enemies.
Who is telling women that they have to attain this unrealistic standard? I don’t know a single man who thinks it. 
But you pick up any issue of “Cosmopolitan” and it’s cover to cover, or “Vogue” or whatever women are reading these days. Women love to dunk on each other, they can’t help it. >

Oh definitely. Women are the worst about other women.
But men are very judgmental too about the appearance of women. >

I sympathize and understand that men have their own pressures and issues to deal with. But men absolutely are not valued for their beauty in the same way women are. Men can be respected for their achievements alone, but even the most successful and intelligent woman will get shit on if she isn’t pretty. >

But at least people are actually talking about unrealistic standards for beauty as far as women are concerned.
Men are at least 10 years away from that convo even starting. >

Yeah, and who is it that won’t let us have that conversation? Men. >

How are men not letting you have this conversation? >

Because men are the ones mainly perpetuating these standards while also shitting on body positivity. >

How are many shitting on body positivity?
If your people are shitting of obsess people, that is not shitting on body positivity as it is down equally in both genders?
Actually I’ve seen women be more critical and offensive on other women looks then other men >

I have fat female friends who post pictures of themselves on social media and whenever they get too popular tons of men flood into the comments saying shit like “this chick doesn’t know she’s fat, she can’t wear that.”
It happens on Reddit too. Just saw a post of a fat girl happily walking somewhere in a cute outfit and a bunch of men kept going on about how she’s so ugly. 
It doesn’t seem to happen when it’s a fat guy, though.
Certainly, women do it too. But personal experience tells me that men are the main perpetrators. >

I had a male friend who was overweight and posted a topless beach photo and got critism from girls saying he’s nasty. I remember when I was at school and girls would be fighting and weight was a common insult tactic.
I have seen the biggest think pierced and comments on female celeb weight fluctuations done by other females online, not men. So like I’ve said I’ve seen both girls and boys do the same thing. Maybe it comes down to girls seeking out gratification and reinforcement more from beauty on social media, as they post more but the criticism is equal in both genders.
I just feel women are more vocal about it probably because they themselves out more importance and emphasis on beauty standards then men. You see in the industry are bending to accommodate more beauty standards for women while men get left behind >

I think you make a decent point that is undermined by suggesting that it’s worse than women. 
Firstly, it doesn’t need to be competitive, that doesn’t serve anyone. It doesn’t help to pit one side against the other.
And secondly, if we are doing that, women definitely have it worse. Speaking as a man, I feel very little pressure and although yes the media is full of unobtainable body types, there are also loads of actors that don’t look like that and have success. Let’s take Seth Rogen as an example, he is an average looking guy who is regularly in films where he’s in relationships with beautiful women. In Bad Neighbours he is married to Rose Byrne, which of those two do you think spends more time working on their body? In the media, all the women have to be beautiful, whereas there are still plenty of average dudes. >

I think the difference is that loads of people will say that female beauty standards are ass, but that's pretty quiet for men. It's a mix of the assumption that it doesn't have to be said out loud (except it does otherwise the idea will build up over time) and that most of the people saying that stuff are women and unsurprisingly care and know more about the standards facing women >

But that’s because women have organised and fought back against those standards. Men haven’t done that, men haven’t created their own body positivity movement. >

It's hard for men to do the same. They either get called incels or get invaded by them. Iirc MRA and Incels actually started off as innocent (apparently the first person to identify as an incel was actually a woman), but then hateful people jump in and ruin it. A lot of modern feminism's image in the developed world has also been ruined by the crazies. Dunno what the solution would be >

You’re getting downvoted because the women’s movement of today took literal centuries to form, and women were facing issues like not being allowed to vote, not having the right to own property, not being allowed their own money, and not having a say in divorce, among many other issues. It was HARD for women to organize, and they did so largely because of the massive shared issues they faced. And they faced often violent backlash to get things where they are today. 
Men can and should organize, but yes, it will likely be hard. That said, though many men on Reddit want to deny it, men’s issues are becoming more prominent all the time among feminist circles. Men would be smart to piggyback off of the momentum of feminism to get their issues in the limelight. That’s basically where it’s headed as far as I can see. Anyone I personally know who considers themselves a feminist also discusses men’s issues. So I’m hoping to see that grow big over the next decade. >


You’re getting downvoted because the women’s movement of today took literal centuries to form...

And? I never said it didn't. I just pointed out some of the difficulties that exist today. Just because feminism had it's own hardships doesn't make that any less true. 

So I’m hoping to see that grow big over the next decade.

Yeah that sounds wonderful >

Your original wording says “it’s hard for men to do the same” which, though perhaps it was unintentional, makes it sound like it wasn’t hard for women to do. Feminism is still growing despite detractors online that like to hate on it. Men can do it, too. And men can get help doing it from women if they don’t do the MRA route and negatively target women in the process. >

I'm not denying that men have standards they feel they need to adhere to, but why even compare it to women's and saying it's worse? Men aren't normally valued only by how attractive they are, it's really not the same. >

Men are a tools that are reduced to solely what they can produce. Women are assets that are reduced to solely who they are. Nobody is happy. >

Not saying it’s acceptable but the difference between unrealistic male bodies and unrealistic female ones in the media is that when men are portrayed in insane ways it’s always meant to be a male power fantasy versus female sexualization. >

I think it’s impotent to make a distinction about how men and women feel about their weight personally and how society treats them.
For the former I would agree. However the latter, women have it way way worse. fat woman, especially in entertainment are vilified to fuck. Even outside the entertainment industry, listen to testimony’s from women who have lost weight as to how differently they were treated before and after. 
Pizza is constantly in the news about her weight for one reason or another. However rappers like Rick Ross? No comes after him.
Edit: Lizzo. That was typo. A bad one at that lol >


However the latter, women have it way way worse. fat woman, especially in entertainment are vilified to fuck. Even outside the entertainment industry, listen to testimony’s from women who have lost weight as to how differently they were treated before and after

how is that any diferent than men
how many fat men are just that the fact actor in the movie and usually just a joke character
and if you dont think men are treated diferently after they lose weight youre delusional >

You tell me one fat male actor, singer or anyone in media whose body is talked about as much as Lizzos or any other large woman is?
You’re delusional if you think womens body’s fat or otherwise aren’t under constantly scrutiny over males in the media. What rock are you living under? >

Rick Ross was talked about heavily due to his weight.
Also fat male celebs are not going online and promoting and celebrating being modishly obese and unhealthy, hence why Lizzo got such a backlash because people were rallying around her trying to justify and encourage this unhealthy lifestyle >

You see, straight away you’ve judged her lifestyle as unhealthy and that she’s encouraging it. Vilifying her. You’ve literally just made a distinction between male and female big celebs. Lizzo isn’t promoting anything. She just tells people that it’s ok to be who you are whilst you work on yourself. Her body is under more scrutiny because the media focus way more on women bodies. It was the same with Adele before she lost weight. 
Leonardo DiCaprio gets called Dadbod but it’s been spun into an almost positive thing cause he hangs out with super models all the time. No says anything about him promoting or encouraging an unhealthy lifestyle do they? He’s just existing doing his thing (which is fine) >

She’s morbidly obese, and heavily overweight at the slightest which is unhealthy.  She’s out her body image sexualising and monetising her body image( which I have no issue with ) out there, “saying weight gain isn’t bad, and then this reinforces obesity for young followers like it isn’t already an issue in the west.
Now I’ve said Rick Ross has got criticism, so had Jonah Hill about there weight gain. DiCaprio isn’t greatly overweight , the same way Kate Winslet isn’t greatly overweight. So this comparison isn’t valid really.  Being morbidly obese is a unhealthy beauty standard which you readily defend, why ? >

No they are not “just as bad or worse”. Do they exist? Yes. But they are in no way the same. >

It is ridiculous. 6 years straight of sport and training at the gym. My body is extremely athletic and lean. My power to weight ratio is insane, I can bench more than I weigh. I'm a great rock climber, I train calisthenics at an advanced level. Girls act like I'm skinny. I can climb up walls with just my hands. I can do a pull up with one arm. I'm still viewed as weak/small by most.
I dare say the issue is worse for women, because they seem to not cope quite as well with insecurity as men do. But the issue definitely extends to both sides >

the liver king steroid drama was so boring to me because for decades I have been theorizing about The rock and many heroes in Hollywood. 
it all leads people to believe it is easily achievable. In a strange way it is the one time I appreciate tabloid transparency when they find out. it is the production companies that want to keep it a secret the most, >

"The amount of people who did not think this guys work outs a lot is insane."
I saw one guy who said he looked like he didn't work out, and the responses averaged to 3 on the scale. >

Bad? Sure. As bad? Nope. >

No. They're not.
Don't get me wrong, they're bad. They're really bad. It is fucking shit being a short, skinny man with thin hair and big ears.
But you have no idea how bad some women (especially those that don't meet feminine beauty standards) have it. Just experiencing a little of what my fiancee lives with on a daily basis, the way she is made to feel by men, women and society at large, the pressure she is under... It's worse. 
That said... Yes, people need to stop this blindness they have towards men when it comes to proper intersectional analysis. There are many shitty things about being a man that get ignored or brushed aside by whataboutism. >

Something I haven’t seem mentioned yet is that (most of) the people pushing unrealistic body standards for men are other men. Its a hyper-masculine that emphasizes what men value in themselves and other men (mainly strength). While there are women who prefer jacked guys, there are just as many who love dad bods or willowy stick men. And there are way fewer women with the power to make decisions that affect people based on their looks. So even if you have an “undesirable” body, you probably won’t experience any real-world consequences at the level women do.
It’s important to recognize that men and women seeking more body positivity are both working against the same force: toxic masculinity. The call is coming from inside the house. >

i was looking for this comment! imo its not women mainly who uphold these beauty standards for men, its other men. >

This is true but most guys don't understand this. When I was a kid I thought that women wanted guys that were huge and jacked out of their mind. It took me a long time to realize that's actually just a thing guys are into. >

The most attractive thing that a man can have is good hygiene. >

My missus is a “height queen” if those things exist, I think on a purely aesthetic level what women seem to like in a man the most is height.
Put it this way, my wife is 5’ 10 and I’m 6ft, she refuses to wear heels because that would make her taller than me.
Go figure I suppose. >

I would agree with that. For me, I am a short person. I do not care if someone is close in height to me. However, I find myself more attracted to men that are taller than me. I think it’s more of the feeling more protected aspect and not necessary their height >

Okay I 100% agree that beauty standards for men and women are equally bad but before anyone starts saying that men have it as bad as women in that department lets acknowledge the IMPACT of those standards on men and women. While men and women are both pressured to equally unhealthy body proportions all the time by society, women are the only ones where the intrinsic value of the person is dependent on that.
Whether you like to admit it or not our society still see's a women's value in her appearance mostly. If a man is unable or unwilling to reach those beauty standards there are other ways he can make up for it be it wealth or social status. >

Depends on how you define 'impact.' I'm in my 40s and in pretty good shape compared to other men my age, but my self-esteem had never recovered from the insecurity I felt from being overweight as a teenager. I have an objectively good existence right now, but I hardly ever feel good about myself, have been suicidal, and have to fake having self-confidence so that my son has a positive role model. The case by case impact on men can be pretty profound, even if more women than men are affected. >

Impact as in how others view you and your inherent value. You talk about your self esteem being poor but thats is completely on you and how you view yourself. Right now when people look at you and make their first impression about you and your "worth" to them they're not focusing almost entirely on your looks. They might look and see if you can provide for you family, if you're sociable, funny, quick witted, smart, or kind.
For women on the other hand that is virtually the exact opposite. Yea you and other men's self esteem and confidence can take a nose dive from the outcomes of unhealthy beauty standards society has on us but it will never be the same and have as drastic effect as it does on women who will not only have their own self esteem and confidence shattered but also be told by society they are worth less than those who can fit in the standards better >

So when social pressures affect women, it's a problem with society, but when social pressures affect men, the problem is on them. >

Correct. Don't bother arguing it either. You won't win >

How many men take steroids vs women who get plastic surgery or have eating disorders...or both? >

Personally I do think that women have it worse when it comes to being judged on beauty alone, but what you're pointing out could have something to do with steroids being a controlled substance that needs to be obtained illegally if you're using it purely for muscle growth. >

This would have been a great post without the unnecessarily competitive title. >

I heard for the longest time, most men do not care about how they look, i have met some, but for the most part most men, especially me are aware of not being attractive/ super fit means. >

We care but most of us can't obtain it and we know it. So we have two options we can complain but no one cares or we can do our best to get over it and again no one else cares so we do our best. This leads people to think it isn't a problem. Honestly though if barbies are bad for a little girl's self-image then one should consider for a moment that men are also human and perhaps the He-man/superhero body type pushed everywhere would be just as damaging to a little boy's self-image. The thing is though just like above nobody cares. Those who have any ability to affect change and care enough are ignored at best. Possibly even laughed at. Sort of like when a boy is molested by a woman surely he enjoyed it right? Reverse the sexes and it's suddenly now it's a gigantic issue. Fortunately, things change and I believe as a society we are progressing but just as we look back and say holy crap things were just awful years ago our children will do the same. Theirs will too Id wager. >

Women are valued by society for their looks at lot more, I don't know what this person is saying. Guys makes face value approaches on women more than women do for men, they do the same yes. >

They are telling the truth when they say "I eat clen, and I tren hard."  
Also, Liver King and his an(avar)cestral living tenets. >

My job allows me to watch people all day, lots of couples. While i understand what you're saying, I don't think that's reality. My personal observation is that more often I see regular sized women with overweight men, definitely not the other way around. If we're talking about strictly media sources, I'd say it's worse for women. How many chubby female actors vs chubby male actors? I could probably name 50 famous obese men before I could name 10 famous obese women. >

unnutural 🥜 >

Sure, but no body is watching a Thor or Captain America movie for realism, though… >

Too many people think those super hero bodies are ideal when they're not. Shit, those actors don't even maintain that body after shooting has wrapped. >

Yeah, seeing a Mr. Universe contestant wheeze when picking up whey powder is sobering. >

Yeah that part is from starving themselves for days and dehydrating themselves as well so the muscles show more definition. >

Look at plastic surgery statistics that will Change your mind >

What I never understood is the giant protruding chin, or the chin that looks like an ass crack.
Of course you could be born with it, but I'm sure many of these male celebs have had some sort of chin implant. >

You know. You take away any real opportunity for discussion about the unrealistic portrayal of men in the media when you whine about “having it worse than women.” Y’all can’t ever speak about just men’s issues? Why do women have to be brought into the conversation at all when we’re trying to talk about an issue that has to deal with men. Maybe if men could just talk about men’s issues without making it a gendered completion we’d actually be able to get somewhere! >

Dudes probably just frustrated that the only vocal discussion about the issue is for women. 100% agree that a comparison only takes value away from the issue though, kinda wish more dudes would notice that and stop digging the hole deeper. >



Not worse than women.


Valid point, steroid use and movies definitely make bodybuilder bod more casual than it actually is >

Interesting, how would you quantify #1?
Not disagreeing, just curious. >

It's pretty clear that there is a societal expectation for women to spend time and effort thinking about hair, clothing, skincare, makeup, pedicures/manicures, etc. 
The makeup industry is worth 550 billion dollars, and most makeup is used on women, not men. 
I dunno how an argument could form where males are equal in terms of rigorous beauty standards as per women. >

Meh, I think there might be an argument to be had that women have a higher floor for what "acceptable" is, but maybe men may have a higher ceiling for what attractive is. I also get that there's personal preference and all but I also think that the average women is considered more attractive to men than the average man is considered attractive to women(physically speaking)
Like realistically,  how long would it take a normal guy to look like Superman Henry Cavill or batman christan bale verses an average women to look like Zoe Kravitz or Ann Hathaway >

The higher floor means that the average woman is working harder than the average man to look good... This means that women have it harder... 
The average man is considered less attractive to women than the average woman is to men because men are much thirstier creatures than women... they've done polls/studies at universities that show the average man will be open to casual sex at astronomically higher rates than the average woman. Women are allowed to be pickier because of all the competition they get for themselves, whereas the average male does not get this attention. >


The higher floor means that the average woman is working harder than the average man to look good... This means that women have it harder

I never said they didn't >

If the average woman is working harder than the average man to achieve their gender's beauty standards, then women have much more rigorous beauty standards than men.... >

You completely ignore the fact that the 10minutes a guy puts in makes him look like he didn't just get out of bed. That's it.
An hour or two in the bathroom and a woman can seriously elevate her perceived attractiveness.
So yes, harder work, much bigger rewards. Men don't really have options of heels, hair extensions, body shapers, lip fillers and makeup. So the work argument is kind of an apples vs. oranges situation. >

If a women were to spend 10 minutes a day on her beauty regime, there are very, very many people who will judge that woman as not spending enough time on her appearance. The same is not true for men.
All of these items like heels, hair extensions, body shapers, lip fillers, and makeup are ALL available to men... The fact that most men see no NEED to wear makeup, whereas women definitely feel that it is a NEED is why women beauty standards are much much tougher than males. Like, who spends more time on their beauty regimes on average, males or females? It's very clearly females...
Men just do not face the same level of beauty standards. >

Lol yeah I'm sure a guy with hair extensions is gonna do great pulling at the club.
C'mon now. You have a bit of a point but don't be ridiculous.
Also "a lot of people will judge her as..."
So? People judge people for all kinds of reasons. We just decided that being judged for that one somehow hurts more than others that might be more severe. Women who don't engage in this stuff the way the norm does definitely exist. >

Very unpopular and factually incorrect. Take my upvote. >

I think the difference is looks are not as important for men as their are for women.
Guys just value looks more than women do. >

Nope. >

It is difficult for both men and women but women have it way worse, even in the media women have to be skinny and curvy and men have to mostly be more muscular or in good shape. >

what the heck are you on about mate?  if there were ever any "beauty standards for men"  i certainly never heard of them.. nor do i give a sh!t.  
i look how i look.. take it or leave it >

Am currently watching Zoolander and the struggle is real >

He's recording that video on some hip beach where a lot of people who value their looks hang out, no wonder you get these kind of answers. Not to mention he could have cut out any other responses.
There's many people on this world with many different tastes and opinions. As a guy, you really don't have to be some kind of body builder to get basic respect, unlike women not wearing make up in a lot of places. >

I always think that if their veins are popping out and their muscles look like rocks in a sock, they must be juiced. Am I correct? It looks fake and grotesque. >

At least they don’t try to trick you into buying thousands of dollars full of shit you don’t need for said beauty standards. >

People like seeing good people on screen. What's wrong with that?
Since when are actors supposed to create the standard for everyone?! They don't, never have.
I'm tired of seeing countless reiterations of this "BeAuTy StAnDaRdS ArE BaD" post. Touch grass. >

Actually Dwayne Johnson admitted to "just a little" steroid use when he was a teenager/early career. But he wouldn't ever ever ever do that stuff now, because it's bad for you, kids. Don't do drugs (( unless you wanna look like me ;) )) >

This is both true and unpopular.  Cue women screamjng at you that you’re wrong.  99% of “ideal female physiques” are achievable from just dieting alone in a couple months assuming you don’t have any medical conditions.  Hell, you don’t even need to workout as long as your diet is locked in.  Male fitness magazine bodies and attractive make bodies in movies?  It will take years of perfect dieting and a proper weight lifting protocol.  And even with that, you will not look that good.  Even WITH steroids, it’s unlikely that you can achieve that look unless you had the right genetics in the first place. >

Beauty standards for men are pretty much just the good ole how many women they slept with. The more women you slept with, the more "alpha" you are to every other men >

Walked into target a while back, lots of pictures of plus size women for inclusiveness
All the dudes were shredded >

For men: Yes there are unrealistic standards if you think about actors etc. as you've mentioned. I don't think a lot of women are attracted to the bodybuilder type though...maybe that's just me, I prefer someone with a cute face/*decently* in shape body and personality is the most important. If you're a fat guy, you don't have a lot of clothing options (I don't think I've ever seen a plus-sized men's store in my life). Short guys really have it bad in my opinion, because they have zero control over their height and some people can be really mean about it. 
For women: Again, unrealistic standards from the media too. Fat women have more clothing options (not THAT many but still more than men it seems). Of course there's the body positivity movement (which imo should be for everyone regardless of gender) that at some points goes to to much of an extreme but still, women are taught from a young age that their worth depends on their looks. When I was in GRADE SIX, the teacher was talking to the girls about puberty and whatnot and we somehow landed on what boys find attractive and she told us it was the 4 B's (boobs, butt, body, beauty). Imagine 11-year-olds hearing this. Now as an adult woman I've heard jokes at work where someone describes what a woman does and someone says "she just looks good" etc. I talk to female friends and none of us are really happy with our looks, everyone wishes this part was smaller, this part was bigger, etc.
Tldr, judging by appearance is shitty for everyone, and maybe men should be called pretty more often and women should be called smart more often. >

As a man in my perspective I disagree.   
I got the impression from most women I worked with that they don’t want a dude who is jacked.    
A woman will probably have more physical insecurities of her own with some gym junkie.   
A jacked gym dude might be a picky eater. Said gym dudes probably wants to spend 10 to 30 hours a week in the gym which means less time for the relationship partner.   Gym dudes can be super egotistical.   
I believe most women want a dude with money, career and a lifestyle.    A man being in decent shape probably comes after those things.    A dude who is movie star jacked…I am sure their are a small portion women who do specifically like that type. 
However, some women have unrealistic expectations when it comes to height.   Some women only date 6 foot and higher (so you are telling me you won’t date 85% of the male population?) 
Women can get plastic style surgery to achieve quicker results.  Men can do TRT type bullshit.  To look like a movie actor you still have to workout a ton even with plastic surgery and/or steroids.  I am pretty sure most of middle America knows movie stars get plastic surgery and or do steroids.
If anyone ever thought The Rock was 100% natural I might be curious what drugs you have been cooking or on. >

Beauty standards are terrible for everyone. I do believe that women still suffer more. But men are definitely not as far behind. >

It’s true. In the photo you provided the woman only had to lose weight. 
The guy had to be in the gym at least 4x a week >

Don't lie to yourself lmao >

Yeah. Sadly this is one of the places where women achieved equality most quickly, but instead of lowering beauty standards for women, we just raised them for men. Gender equity is easy as long as it feeds capitalism. I remember when Maxim magazine came out selling the “men’s lifestyle” of Axe deodorant and hair dye for men, and I thought, “First they came for the women…” >

Yes, and it’s really annoying being constantly discredited and overridden by women saying they have it worse. It feels like it’s at least equally as bad but there’s constantly a bit more importance placed on women’s looks. Also I bet wayyyy more guys have body dismorphia than they think >

It's definitely still worse for women, they can't even dress how they want without getting blamed for predators everyday across the world. Shit is getting worse for men, but even as a pale, overweight guy with bad teeth - I still pull, don't get put down for my body and don't get loads of women staring at me on the street or passing comments within earshot. 
My sisters though, they're fine and average women and still have to put up with all kinds of conservative and brain-dead shit every day, even from our own family trying to control how they eat and dress. 🤷‍♀️ 
As guys, we got it pretty good overall, even in the shitty category of beauty standards. >

No >

You don’t shave your entire body, you don’t wear makeup, you don’t do your hair to the exhausting extent we do, you don’t get fillers, Botox, you don’t get your nails done, you don’t have excessive skincare routines-
All on top of starving yourself and working out.
There’s more. And there’s some darker things I could talk about. But I think you get my point. 
You are wrong. Women have it WAYYY worse. I’m sorry this is happening to you, but to discredit all of the shit we go through is just gross and disingenuous.
Like, come on. You KNOW it’s worse for us. Stop pretending and start changing. >

i hope you realize that botox and starving yourself isn't normal at all and no one expects all girls to look like kim kardashian >

At least the male ideal is strong, fit, muscular, and not small, thin, fragile, dainty. You can exaggerate anything, no doubt, but there is a little difference don't you think. >

I actually find it attractive when men are small, thin, and dainty/slightly feminine looking. Ironically, I’m a woman who weight trains and puts on muscle fairly easily for a girl. >

You are probably going to make some man incredibly happy some day >

I’ve been married for 11 years, so already have. >

Ah yeah, that'll do it >

I think it’s about equal in terms of toxicity but women are speaking up more and more lately. Hopefully men can speak up as well. >

agree but definitely not worse than what women deal with. I would say it’s pretty equal in Hollywood, the main difference is in real life, lots of very average men think they need to be with the hottest girl in the room and they put that pressure on every average girl that tries to date them. Whereas I’ve seen plenty of BEAUTIFUL women who are with very average men. The average woman is expected to try and keep up with movie stars, but I’ve met very few women who expect a man that looks like a marvel super hero, probably even none. >

I think it’s worse for but not for the reasons you mentioned.
Women prefer body standards that men have absolutely no control over - height. >

I agree they are unrealistic in a lot of movie you can get close to that but it really depends on people for example I got pretty bigger arms by working out 10 minutes almost everyday of the week because I wanted to maintain a good health.
People who workout just to flex are really doing it wrong with unrealistic goals >

I didn't consider this before, but yeah, both men and women have unreal body standards to live up to. >

What I know is that you are ugly... lol >

I disagree. Men can be ugly and successful. It's hard for a woman to be successful if they're unattractive, especially in a male-dominated workplace. >

I would argue that they're worse because there is little discussion on how unrealistic these physiques are, and how unhealthy they are to attain.
For the most part, to get these physiques you need to have good genetics (top 20% of men), exercise an unrealistic amount (2+ hours per day), follow an extremely strict diet, take performance enhancing drugs, and even then you can only maintain the physique for a few weeks because your body fat it too low. Just having the physique is usually not enough though, as spray tan, make-up, and lighting is used to make these men look better; and then they use photoshop to stretch the proportions far beyond what is even possible when using drugs. >

way worse, women need to look fit, men need to look like thor. Women can simply exercise and diet and with time they will achieve the desired phisique, men need to take steroids, diet way "harder", exercise way harder as well to achieve a phisique like thor >

a woman’s hormonal cycle can make losing weight harder , actually. A man doesn’t have the same hormonal cycle and testosterone makes it easier to build muscle so…. >

To be fair, if you're going to play Batman, even a realistic and totally natural Batman, he could have worked out more and gotten in better shape. He's playing a detective martial artist vigilante billionaire who does nothing but focus on his mission. He could have and should have realistically been in better shape than that. RobPat was just lazy in every way in this movie. It is, in fact, very unrealistic that he looked like a wet noodle in The Batman. His choreography was so unconvincing because his clothes wore him and not the other way around. In real life, he had the whole pandemic to get ready but instead he just showed up to set after a few push-ups, acted like a mopey teenager, and justified it by saying "it's a new, fresh, grounded take". No, you're just lazy RobPat. 
Anyone with that Batman's lifestyle would be in better shape, even naturally, unless you dont know much about fitness. >

You forget Batman has a terrible sleep schedule and this would hinder his physique >

You also make a very good point lol >

Maybe, but its not really as bad for men as men aren't judged primarily off of their physique/beauty standards.  (At least when meeting in person) men can make up for a lack of handsome appeal with having money, charisma, game, what they wear, and other various factors. 
As a woman though, if your looks aren't on point, it's rough out there for dating. >

Bad take. Sadly mens most attractive attributes are very much intangible- bravado, humor, and intelligence often outweigh looks. >

Yeah but usually men don’t bitch and complain about it >

People are delusional. >

Im not sure im willing to say who has it worse, but it def does suck.  I do think you address a very important topic though.
I also a lot of the people in that video didnt really seem like they wanted to participate, or seemed annoyed so maybe rated a little harsher. >

Kratos is my gym motivation >

Didn’t that Jungle George actor do a big interview about how fucking shit he was feeling when working out for that movie? He lost his memory or some shit. He is keeping it real now and seems to be more healthy. 
I’ve seen documentaries about dudes doing those body builder shows. I remember one dude only eating boiled fish before his show and he went full rage on his gf because she ate pizza on her birthday. He was yelling at her in front of her family and told her she “didn’t support him”. It was fucking awful to see. Id rather have a guy who is well fed and happy, than someone who is drugged up but has a ripped body. I always swipe left on guys showing off their 6pack simply because I wanna be able to eat pizza with them and chill in bed <3 >

If he was shirtless, he would get 4/5s only haha. Or wore tighter clothes. The truth is that shit we see on social media, movies, etc. is unrealistic, but that doesn't change the fact that working out for 3-6 months will make people around you notice and they will start to treat you different, respect you more. After a year it will put your physique in top 5-10%, even if your genes are "bad". But most people don't wanna commit. Most people don't wanna go out there and take the pain every other day. Most people don't want to wait for months to see results, don't want to take care of shit they eat. Of course they don't. Because it's hard. That's why after just a year (out of 70-80 years it's like 20 minutes per day you probably spend on ig, tiktok or whatever) you are in the top 10% when it comes to physique, that's why it is so desirable. But that's okay. People are different, people have priorities, if everybody was shredded, then nobody was. I didn't make it up, I was skinny for my whole life, and it's really as life-changing as they say it is. But it is well deserved. There is not a single case, when somebody regret going to the gym. You can only regret not going in the first place, especially when it is already too late, and you have never had a chance to see your true, physical potential. >

Gotta disagree on the whole beauty standards are worse for men. It's bad for everyone, just not as many men care as much what they look like compared to women. >

Yes they are
BUT being honest we don't give a f*ck about it most of the time.
THATS the REAL difference. >

You do know those videos are heavily clipped and edited...like theyre fake... >

i hate using crisp rat as an example, but he’s perfect here. andy dwyer and star lord are both completely bangable. same guy DRAMATICALLY different physiques, so to say that there’s a societal demand that men “have” to look a certain way to be attractive is disingenuous (see also, john krazinski, kumail nanjiani) women do not have that luxury. 
chris hemsworth is wonderful to look at, and he seems very nice, and smart… bad example… that one avenger who bores me is some eye candy for sure, but it’s EYE CANDY. women (of which i know many and am one) are still yelling for dad bods. we understand fantasy vs reality. 
now, there’s definitely an issue, but it is JUST starting (trust me, 90’s dwayne johnson was a gorgeous specimen. he’s a doughboy compared to our man now). it’s in men’s hands to fix it. you don’t like it, don’t support it. seriously, it’s the only way it will stop. we’ve been “talking” about harmful body images for women for probably a century (at least). boycott men’s health, don’t give clicks to articles about being shredded, skip an MCU movie or two. 
it has got to stop. but don’t succumb. women like reality. i promise. >

Not even close. The difference is that men are not pressured to live up to these standards unless your profession is a very specific one. Like being a pro wrestler, or action star.
Men can be fat slobs with mustard on their flannel shirts and no one bats an eye. Most women will almost always put on some make up. >

You clearly are batting an eye though to go about calling them out on it. >

Can you explain this again please? >

I 100% agree. You see plenty of plus size/'normal' female models, but the majority of male models I see are ripped. I definitely think it's time to focus a bit more on things that are unfair to men. >

I blame Joe Weider. Look at what bodybuilders used to look like. It went from muscular/athletic to mass monsters. It's the same thing breeders did to dogs. They exaggerated features to the detriment to the breed. >

You could could be the sexiest man alive, but if you're below a certain hieght you're just SOL. Practically a red flag to some wonen. >

I was a lot thinner in college but didn't really appreciate it at the time because I didn't have abs. Looking at old pictures now, I realize that I was fine but had and still have body image issues despite people telling me I look good. It's no fun, but I have to admit I have vanity. >

I work out. I have been offered steroids many times.  My response? Have you got any heroin? >

If you think about it, attainment of the perfect male body is far more of a difficult pursuit in terms of maintenance and initial achievement. Unpopular opinion incoming - for a classically ‘hot’ female body most women only really follow a healthy diet and preform daily light exercise, whereas men would need to gym rat for hours everyday and eat an inhuman amount of food.