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I live on a small sustainable hobby farm. I grow everything myself and try to keep everything as natural and balanced as possible. My cattle are the easiest thing on the farm. Literally take no work whatsoever other than making sure they have water. My garden however is a constant battle. It is far far easier to grow a years worth of beef than it is to grow a years worth of vegetables.  And anyone who tells you otherwise has never done both.
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This is well known to vegans. The definition of veganism is to reduce animal suffering as much as possible and practicable. It's not possible to reduce it to 0. >

But the suffering makes it taste so much better >

it actually does not. If animals feel fear before being slaughtered their meet doesn't taste as good anymore. >

That’s because a long time ago there was a mutated gene that allowed us to taste the chemicals released by fear, it helped give our brain the necessary positive chemicals to survive and thrive. It’s thought that most vegans/vegetarians don’t have this mutation. >

It's thought by whom lmao >

I now realize that my real life humor of just bullshitting somewhat realistic sounding, but really stupid ideas won’t work on Reddit. >

A vegetarian or vegan diet consumes way less plants and uses less cropland than a meat diet, because it takes a huge amount of plants to feed the animals that we eat. It takes something like 10 lbs of plants to get a pound of meat. >

But sustainably farmed beef for example can be grass fed (which humans can't eat) on land that is unsuitable for food crop farming. So is this OK? >

And harvesting hay from meadows somehow does not involve crop deaths? >

Exactly. These people live in a dream world. >

“These people” >

Yep. The people who try to come up with arguments against veganism. >

Like any idealogical battle there is hate on both sides, there is also a group of people that says, fuck everything, do what you want to do, and try to be the best person you can be >


Like any idealogical battle there is hate on both sides

The difference being that one side here is unnecessary killing.

and try to be the best person you can be

If you're going to do that, you'd be vegan >

Yeah there it is lol
“I’m right and everyone else who doesn’t do what I think is wrong”
If you ever find yourself in that position you gotta check yourself >

Explain how "being the best person you can be" involves unnecessarily killing animals.

“I’m right and everyone else who doesn’t do what I think is wrong”
If you ever find yourself in that position you gotta check yourself

Do you think rape is wrong? Do you think murder is wrong? If the answer is "yes", do you gotta check yourself? >

If you’re worried about shrews and rabbits then we grow a lot more food to feed the 58 billion animals every year. 
The point of veganism is to reduce harm as much as possible 
If we can feed 58 billion animals then I think we can feed 8 billion people. We can save more shrews and rabbits like you said. >


reduce harm as much as possible

So like keeping backyard chickens and meat rabbits that you feed food scraps and things you grow in your backyard vegetable garden? Then you produce eggs and meat with no mono-cropping or insecticides. >

And you are fully self sustainable like this? Do you think this lifestyle is realistic for the vast majority of people? >

I thought this was about reducing the most harm, as completely eliminating it is obviously impossible. You could still supplement with beans and other vegetable proteins. Why does it need to be black and white? 
Sounds like he is recycling his waste rather efficiently. Chicken crap is a good fertiliser for the garden and they keep away pests so you don't have to use pesticides. 
If the chicken happens to lay an egg, why not eat it? >


I thought this was about reducing the most harm, as completely eliminating it is obviously impossible. 

Killing sentient beings for an unnecessary reason is harmful.

If the chicken happens to lay an egg, why not eat it?

Because we've bred chickens to lay far more eggs than are healthy for them. They very often suffer fractures, as its nearly impossible to replenish their calcium. Also, ask these kind people who own hens what happens to them when the eggs slow down. >

I never said kill the chicken, I said eat the eggs. Not all people kill their chickens if they stop laying. In industrial contexts, yes. But most people I know who keep a few chickens, do so as pets and pest control, if they stop laying so be it. As long as the chickens keep the slugs from the lettuce they are happy.
The chickens kept like that also don't lay eggs everyday like in a battery, anyway. Imagine having five chickens, laying five eggs everyday, you wouldn't keep up with eating all of them. 35 eggs a week? Who eats that? 
At a slow rate it is entirely possible for the chickens to live a happy life. Calcium can be supplemented in their diet too. 
I really think you would be surprised to how many different breeds of chickens there are kept by hobbyists, or even just people with gardens who have a few chickens running around, and how much difference there is between breeds. Not all chickens are bred to lay eggs until their body collapses.
I think you are looking hard at all the worst things, without looking at the good things that are possible too. It is entirely possible to keep chickens in an ethical way in your garden and eat one of their egg once in a while. You just can't be greedy and have to take care of them, and not buy the chicken equivalent of a pug. >

And it takes 16kg of crops to produce 1kg of meat.
Vegans accept that perfection is impossible. But unavoidable deaths aren't a moral justification to go out and cause unnecessary deaths. >

my moral justification is I am hungry and want to go chow some chicken chunks >

So you are arguing because you want to do it it is morally correct? >

The majority of crops grown are used to feed animals which non-vegans then eat. >

And? >

So that’s how they reduce the hard inflicted >

The hard inflicted as in priapism >

And now think of all the crops farm animals eat. 
But this is very overblown, you don’t think rabbits etc run away from tractors??? But not surprising selfish humans come up with creative ways to justify their shitty habits. >

Bingo. Anti vegans hang their hat on one study that counted rabbits in a field, then assumed they were all dead after harvesting.
This ignored the fact that the populations of mammals in neighbouring fields increased just after harvest. How strange >

This is a dumb argument people use as a "gotcha" to vegans/vegetarians, or at best a "I'm 14 and this is deep".  Life and death are a circle, if you are alive, it is because you have taken life.  Life is impossible without eating other things that are/were alive. >

More crops are used to feed animals for the meat/dairy industry than are used to feed actual people. So the vegan diet is still the more ethical choice - not only with respect to reducing animal death, but also making the most of our limited natural resource (e.g. fertile land, water) >

Show me a way to sustain onesself that doesn't involve animal death (as in addition to the obvious threat you'd be construed as making if you said there's no way, eating nothing for ethical reasons leads to animal death because humans are animals) >

Cannibalism >

How can you post this if the post ended with human death in mind already? >

Just eat the feet. People can live without feet. We already eat pig knuckles, so long pork knuckles would be just as gross but still food. And people can't drive without feet, so you'll also be helping.environment. >

they can't walk either, instead they have to use jetpacks which are very inefficient >

Work from home, order human feet from the grocery store, and do Zoom conferences. No need for jetpacks. >

Store bought? Blech >

Hey, it is a time saver, Martha Stewart. >

That's still vastly different than contributing to factory farming where theres a direct link and animals are being bred for the sole purpose of dying young so somebody can consume them. Everything in this planet is interconnected, that's how ecosystems work. Pullin at straws. >

It's about doing the best they can that involves the least amount of cruelty, not about being perfect. Nobody's perfect. >

I eat vegan because it’s much much healthier than an animal based diet. I’d kill a cow with a fucking hammer if I was hungry enough. Why waste your time thinking about these things? >

Every health and dietetic association on earth agrees that we can thrive perfectly well on a vegan diet >

meat is more efficient than plants however, meat is easier to digest so your body absorbs the energy faster. >

Isn't it the opposite? As in meat being harder to digest? That's how I remember it. >

A lot of people who think that forget they are comparing cooked and prepared meat with a vegetable.
If we remember that meat comes from an animal, then any vegetable is easier to eat than a live cow, no matter what you have to do to the vegetable. It's also easier to grow a years worth of food in a field than it is to raise a cow (who will need all that years worth of food, then the same again 3 or 4 times).