>

Just because it takes longer to get a PhD doesn’t mean it’s more prestigious and they almost certainly do not have the knowledge base an MD/DO has.
How many people are fooled by a chiropractor calling themselves a “Doctor of chiropractic medicine” When they don’t go to medical school at all. >

Chiropractors and plastic surgeons absolutely should not be considered doctors >

Not all plastic surgeons do butt lifts and nose jobs… I had a breast reduction done by a plastic surgeon that quite literally changed my life. If a person is cutting into your body and removing stuff they have the right to call themselves a doctor… >

Physicians is a better term and is being increasingly used. >

I'd just like to point out that while you do get your MD after 4 years of medical school, the minimum residency training to actually be able to use that degree is 3 years. Most are 5 years. Some are 7+. 
An MD degree by itself is worthless. It's your training and speciality that allows you to practice. 
You're looking at 7-13 years before actually practicing. >

But you're "Dr" after just four years. >

If you expect to be called Dr. outside of the realm of your doctorate/profession, you should rightfully be laughed at. >

Agree, in middle school I had a teacher who had his Ph.D in musical theory.
Yea, he insisted that the students call him Doctor.
That is why I laugh at this thread and the person who created. it. >

Based on the comment, if he’s teaching musical theory, then it aight. If not, then it’s a big laugh situation >

PhD = philosophiae doctor (the doctor is in the title) 
A medical degree isn't automatically a Dr. Many do write some piss easy compilation of data, which isn't more work than a bachelor or master thesis. In the old days every medical practitioner also wrote a dissertation and got the degree. That stuck in the mind of most people. In German there is a difference between a "Doktor" and a "Arzt". The latter being everyone who completed medical studies at a university and could also write a dissertation to become a doctor. >

The main difference is that MDs are technicians. Smart technicians, but technicians nonetheless.
PhDs are intellectuals. They are the ones creating new medical knowledge, disproving the efficacy of current practices, etc.
All medical researchers hold PhDs. A handful hold a PhD and an MD degree. None, essentially, hold only an MD degree - they're simply not qualified to perform research. >

don't know why you got downvoted because you're exactly right. Maybe your word choice "technician" rubbed some people the wrong way. Another word might be "practitioner".
Medical doctorate is mostly "applied sciences", because, well, MD's are for people who want to practice medicine. >

How about we don't call anyone doctor unless it's work related.  I don't care what degree you do or don't have when I run into you in a social setting.  If you correct me when I call you "Mr" or "Mrs" and tell me it's actually "Dr" I lost all respect for you and there's nothing you could ever do to get it back. >

Correct. 
The only reason people give PhDs shit is because they feel the need to do this. 
If you call me Dr. out in public I will correct you towards using my first name. If someone goes the opposite way (I've only seen PhDs do this) I immediately think you're full of yourselves. >

You just destroyed your own argument by telling us that you are a doctor :-) >

In general, in a professional setting, PhDs and MDs are called doctors. Outside of it, we aren't. At least that's been my experience. 
Not sure why some people would want to be called doctor outside of work. But I called my professors doctor, when I did research I referred to the PhDs in the lab as Dr. But if we went out for dinner I'd use their first name. >

Then you have JDs who never even use the title Doctor in a professional setting. Any lawyer who demands to be called "Doctor" is seen as extremely pretentious. Source: I'm a lawyer. >

Good to know doc ;) >

I’m happy to say I’ve never encountered anyone who introduced themselves as “Doctor” (or any kind of title) in front of their name in a social setting, although I know it happens. But it’s kinda disappointing to wait all these years to reply that I’m the Arch Mage of the Council of Seven >

By that logic, American lawyers should also call themselves “doctor” because they have a Juris Doctor degree.  So lawyers are also doctors now? >

Yes. That’s common knowledge. >

Lol >

I don't know why you are laughing. That person is right. >

It’s common knowledge that lawyers are doctors?  You get a LMAO for that nonsense >

That’s why, professionally, they have JD after name. >

Instead of "many places", you should write "many places in the US" >

Unless they work in a hospital or medical setting, I agree. If they work in the medical field, calling them Dr may confuse the patients, other medical doctors, nurses, etc. >

Chiropractors ^ >

I’m confused. I thought everyone called them doctors? That’s how I refer to all of my professors >

Yes, because that is the appropriate way to address a person who has a doctorate. People just really get off on being wrong. >

In Italy you can call yourself "Dr." even with a bachelor degree, so "everyone" is a doctor ; D
That being said, is it even a problem if people make a joke about a PhD being a medic? It's just a joke, no reason to stress about it >

Dr. J was the original authority on the the most airudite dunks!! >

This unpopular opinion isn’t even an opinion, it’s a fact. 
People with MD degrees are physicians. Doctor is an academic title (which is not exclusive to MDs only and was originally intended only for PhDs). Doctor is not a profession. Physician is the name of the profession for someone with a MD. The problem is that most of the general population is extremely stupid and easily confused and doesn’t even know what you’re talking about when you say someone is a “physician” or that someone has a “doctorate” >

I've always thought they need different titles. My brother has a PhD and he literally makes sure he doesn't have the title Dr on his plane ticket/ passport in case an emergency occurs and they go to him 🤣 >

TIL that people will resort to the most bizarre and convoluted mental gymnastics to justify reverse snobbery rather than just use commonly accepted forms of address in English. >

OP is the dude who check into a flight and gets pissed off at the counter when they don’t call him Dr. Let’s not play the semantics game - we all know that Dr denotes MD generally speaking. When you correct with “Dr of xyz” we all know someone’s feewings got hurt. >

Thats "Dr Dude". How dare you not give me respect I deserve!!!! >

🤣 >

to be fair, I only get pissed when I go to the pub with my mates and they forget to call me Dr Dude. >

Tell them next time they eff up the title it’s their round >

That’s why doctors call themselves “physicians” >

I only needed my Dr title for when someone calls me a bitch, so that I can reply "that's Dr bitch for you". Totally worth the 4 years.
But seriously, I didn't even use it when I was still working as a postdoc, even for work related stuff.  Ppl often assumed I was a master student because I am quite young and also look young, which led to hilarious situations.
Also you can definitely get stripped of your PhD, for example, if someone can prove that you committed fraud. >

That’s nice. Pedantically correct I’m sure. But, you know, in the colloquial doctor is MD is doctor. >

Dr. Mike, I believe this order comes with a side of fries. >

there are people with PhDs in arts subjects out there who absolutely do not deserve to call themselves 'doctor'. these subjects are bollocks. i know because i have a fucking MA despite being an alcoholic. i couldn't pulll that shit in an actual science. >

If you have a doctorate you are a doctor >

When I was at uni in the UK most of the lecturers had the Dr title. It's commonplace really, except in America where they seem to use the title professor for any university teacher. In the UK the professor title is reserved for the head of department. Possibly this might explain why Americans don't hear the Dr title used much outside of the medical profession and thus find it weird when they come across it. >

People who disagree with this opinion are MORONS. It is a doctorate. Respect the education. >

I don't disagree, they can call themselves that but if someone on a plane and they have a heart attack, they aren't asking for someone with an Art History Ph. D, they want a medical professional. >

I mean, most medical doctors aren’t cardiologists or emergency room physicians either. Is a dermatologist or endocrinologist not a real doctor either? 
A paramedic isn’t a medical doctor but could also provide significant assistance during a medical emergency. You can’t exactly do heart surgery on an airplane. You can provide basic first aid, do CPR, identify symptoms etc. That’s about it. >

MDs are notorious for insisting on being called doctor. I have not heard one PhD or the equivalent (there are many doctorates) insist on being called doctor outside of a professional setting. I have heard many with an MD do it. The people who get pissed about PhDs even having the title doctor are almost always MDs who need to feel superior and are hurt that they have to share their shiny title with peons who don’t even BMW. >

1000% agree >

If Im seeing a PhD holder in a professional matter, of course Im gonna call them dr. If were out in life just living, Ill laugh in your face if you try to get me to call you dr. >

unless of course they are a Dr of Boxing or MMA >

It's pretentious.  Earned or not, it just comes off as though the person is overly concerned with titles and appearances. >

If I study for 8-12 years to earn a doctorate, I should rightly be able to use that title without it being pretentious. It sounds like you’ve got a chip on your shoulder. >

Sounds like you do. >

the title of doctor is only available to those who have a PhD because that's what the degree says. A medical doctor is not the same thing and should have the specification that they are a medical doctor
This topic always reminds me of Brooklyn 99 and the episode where Captain Holt goes on a rant about etymology because a dentist calls himself a doctor >

The degree says doctor of philosophy actually. >

The US system is so stupid - with a PhD you'd never be called a dr. over in the majority of Europe. Even the professor thing is stupid in the US, because most university teachers in the US have "only" finished a master's degree.
Where I am, it's a long process that requires several years of working in the field, several years of studying a certain subject. If you qualify for it, you need to write a doctorate, which will be judged by professors and other doctors of  around the world. 
So to gain a professor title, you need the following:
- Bachelors.
- Candidate/Masters.
- PhD.
- PostDoc (work experience)
- Adjunkt/Lector (work towards your subject field)
DOCTORATE
- Doctor.
- Associate Professor.
- Professor.
You also seem to forget that medical school is way longer than just a bach+master, and is in line with the added length (if not more) of a PhD, thus granting them the title DOCTOR OF MEDICINE.
Chripractors, though. AFAIK it's basically just a bachelors and a masters, so IDK why they are allowed to call themselves doctors of medicine. >


Even the professor thing is stupid in the US, because most university teachers in the US have "only" finished a master's degree.

Canada too, I know someone who may not even have a bachelor's degree (they have a diploma from a college), but got hired as a teacher and was granted the title "Professor".
So yeah, the word is meaningless. >

Anyone who demands to be called by a title like doctor who isn’t a medical doctor (only in medical setting) is wack. Use your name like every normal person. You went to school to learn and get the knowledge to be able to do what is required in your field at a high level not to use it as a status symbol. >

Kudos! Fully agree. >

If someone doesn't work in the medical field I'm not calling them Dr. and I will laugh in their face if they demand I do. >

If you go to University, you're going to have a mighty rough time when "Steve" gets to be called "Dr Smith" by students who don't laugh in his face. >

If you're a professor of history I have no problem with you calling yourself Doctor Smith at school or a professional setting... it's when you are out in the world requiring people to call you that where it feels like you're being a wanker. Doctors are medical doctors, you are not. Stop misrepresenting yourself.
Signed, a loser who quit a PhD program and left with a Masters. >

Medical doctors = physicians. They can be doctors when they defend a thesis and gain the ability to teach medicine. If you wonder why it sounds weird. Well that’s the problem of English language. >

I think that you will find that most (but admittedly not all) of the dupes teaching medicine have a PhD, not a medical degree. >

What about people with PhDs in theology like Dr. Dino? >

This is absolutely true. Particularly a STEM PhD. A medical degree (by my physician wife's own admission) is mostly memorization. My son's Astrophysics PhD required peer reviewed original research. In other words, actual science. >

How is med school faster than a PhD? They both take about four years, and I would argue med school is harder than the vast majority of PhD programs. I didn’t finish but I took graduate classes in biotech at UMass and Harvard, they were easy as fuck. >

You are right but a PhD means very little nowadays and it’s very silly to make a deal about your academic degrees. >

You dont have one do you? >

I have my doctoral degree and I don't push the issue of forcing people to use the title.  It really just screams "look at me".  Cringeworthy at best if the degree is in something rather obscure like being a "doctor of packaging".  Especially if said doctor is working as a barista >



No one speaks Latin. Lots of words are derived from Latin most words even. Some retain their original meanings while others don’t. Shambles in Latin means a bench where meat is sold it now when a place in disarray or confusion. If you were to use the word shambles no one would think you mean a butchers table. 


The amount of time it takes to get either is of no consequence. 


It’s universally understood what kind of Dr. Is wanted when the question “is there a Dr. In the house” and nobody has ever said “this man needs to get to a Dr. English STAT!!”


It’s not hard to practice medicine in other countries once you have your MD. There are international nurses and an organization called Doctors Without Borders. While your doctorate in Womans studies or political sciences might not be as welcome in some countries. 


Your PhD or doctorate can be taken away. If you are found guilty of misconduct even years after graduation an academic institution has the right to revoke it. They also have honorary phds but not for medical degrees. Although I do believe Dr. Nick did receive one or two. Hi everybody!


My local physicians degree might not be a higher. He does get a higher degree of respect then the Dr. that is usually high to some degree.


At least neither one is a dentist >

Actually kinda amazing this is an unpopular opinion, this level of scientific title is just called "doctor" in many languages >

Hell yeah. Its the difference between taking a shit ton of adderall and memorizing a textbook vs. actually conducting research and furthering the knowledge of your field. >


People with PhDs are totally entitled to call themselves "Dr"

And everyone else are totally entitled to call them pretentious assholes, and mock them mercilessly.
Also, there's a world of difference between calling yourself using some dumb and irrelevant title, and trying to non-consensually compel the speech of others to do the same. >

Unless you have a medical degree or a tardis I'm not calling you Dr!
This includes my kids head teacher whom uses Dr even though his PhD is in children's literature.  A doctorate in Dahl and spot the dog doesn't count! >

I am (REALLY) tempted to agree. Some poor bastard has to advance the current knowledge in physics or medical research to get their PhD, while another person has to describe what children "feel" when they are read to in class.
But think of it this way, compared to their peers, they are geniuses.
My old boss had a PhD in Education. I read her thesis and it was littered with mistakes and was just rubbish. She was a major suck though and got the University to award her an honorary professorship. Had a good laugh though when she put it on her new business cards and the Uni wrote to her and said that she needs to remove it, because it is disallowed outside the Uni. Oopsie. >

My GP once told me I "wasn't really a doctor".   I told him I became a expert in a field of study and did high level scholarly research on it, whereas he went to a trade school to learn how to make big bucks sticking his finger up people's butts.  He took my point.
I never use "Dr" outside the classroom, or when having someone introduce me at a meeting.   I kind of raise my eyebrows at people who do that. >

raymond holt?! >

I don’t run into non-doctor doctors often but I had a community college accounting professor who corrected a student to address him as “Dr” instead of “Mr”. It seemed a little pompous. Like dude it’s on the syllabus don’t worry we all know. 
They worked hard to “earn” that title but to demand to be addressed in a special way seems like they feel superior. Even medical doctors, why do they need to be called doctor when they are on the golf course? >

They are but I dont see a reason to append your work title to your name :D >

I’m just imagining Ross from friends lmao >

Regarding point 1: Words are defined by their use, and meanings of words evolve over time.  What latin word a currentky-used word is derived from is basically irrelevant because the word carries the meanings it carries now regardless of what word it was originally derived from.  "a person skilled or specializing in healing arts  especially : one (such as a physician, dentist, or veterinarian) who holds an advanced degree and is licensed to practice" is one of the current definitions of the word "doctor," according to Merriam-Webster.  The rest of your points don't negate that or mean that a medical doctor does not deserve the title of Doctor. >

I know a good number of people with PHDs, and medical doctorates. Never have I heard them correct someone. I have even asked some as they are close friends and they said they want to be treated as equals with everyone and do not feel elevated above everyone else. To be so pompous is to just push others away. I have seen on many different occasions introducing to new people and the inevitable small talk of what do you do comes up. Stranger, “ o, so what do you do for work?” friend, “ o, I am a pharmacist.” Stranger “ ah, so I should refer to you as doctor then?” Friend,” no, John is good”. >

Captain Holt? >

is op Raymond Holt from b99?? >

In the UK, a medical degree (the one that qualifies you to practice) isn't even a doctorate, and surgeons typically are addressed as Mr, Miss, or Mrs after completing their surgical training. >

Surgeons are called Mr in the UK because traditionally it was a trade with apprenticeship while physicians were typically educated in universities which is why they called themselves doctors. >

There is a big reason why a MD(doctor) can also have a PhD(doctorate) being able to practice medicine and research it >

Tired: MDs have the greatest right to call themselves doctors.
Wired: Ph.D.s have the greatest right to call themselves doctors.
Inspired: JDs have the greatest right to call themselves doctors. >

Thankfully I've never really known anybody to do this. >

Fine, just so long as JDs don’t. Esq. is also goofy as hell, and a strong indicator that you used a roller bag in law school. >

Entitlement... >

I don't call anyone Dr. We are on a first name basis around these parts. >

I agree…. But I am totally one of those lawyers that writes my name as Fuzzy_Macaron_9412, Esq. Whether it’s on a legal document or not. 
I went into a shit load of debt to get that Esq. So I’ll be damned if I don’t get my money’s worth >

Working in academia, a colleague and friend was promoted to professor.
After about 2 hours of us all referring to him as ‘Professor’, he lost his shit and told us to cut it out. We’re normally first name only.
No one calls us ‘Doctor’ - including the students. Most won’t ever know (or care).
We do get a slightly more ridiculous hat to wear at graduation ceremonies… >

I think really they should be different words. I don’t care if there was a title that distinguished all the academic work, but it’s not the same as a medical dr and they should have their own names >

Love the TL;DR at the bottom sir >

"even more"
BAHAHAHA
Um, no sir, not a chance. >

You are Mister...?
Doctor.
Mister Doctor?
It's Strange.
Who am I to judge. >

I believe "doctor" was a term given to scholars before medical practitioners began using it, so you're correct. >

Oh, interesting. I didn't know all that. >

I have a PhD and I work in medical research at a hospital, so I encounter a lot of people with doctorates of all types, academic and medical. All are called doctor in a professional setting. I don’t mind people using my first name or Dr. Last Name but I would never call myself “a doctor” because people assume that means physician. I’ve only ever corrected someone once in a social setting and it was just because I didn’t like the guy. 
That said, I did encounter a thread once where someone was addressing wedding invites and wanted to put Dr. for the MDs but Mr./Mrs. for the PhDs, that didn’t seem right to me. >

Those are good arguments and I was not expecting you to have any. 
As an RN I am totally conditioned to call MD’s “doctor”, to the extent that if I am working with a provider and I don’t know their credentials, I will find out before addressing them in person. And I’m quite comfortable with it. 
I suppose it’s just cultural, because I do honestly cringe if a PhD of history insists I call them doctor. I won’t do it. Maybe I should, but….no. Sorry. >

So couple things:  

A PhD is recognized internationally whereas a medical degree is not.

False. A medical degree is recognized everywhere. Its the license to practice medicine which varies from place to place. If a medical doctor from India can come to the US and publish research. They can refer to themselves as Dr. Whomever on their research. Youre just going to see MBBS next to their name as opposed to DO or MD. They cant treat patients because they dont have a license. Not because they are not a doctor.   

You local physician can have his "Doctor" title stripped or revoked by the local medical association. A person with qa PhD cannot and will have it for their lifetime.

False. Any holder of a medical degree is still doctor. The local medical association does not have the authority to strip you of your degree. They have the authority to strip you of your license. The only people that can strip you of your medical degree is the institution which gave it to you. This is the same for PhD and is usually done for one reason only weather you are PhD, MD or DO; You cheated or lied to get your degree.  

Your local physician (who calls himself a doctor) does not have a higher degree and his title of "doctor" was not used until about the 19th century because they wanyted a way to feel more important.

Doctors dont need to feel more important. They are and always have been. Even in the days of quackery before evidence based medicine.   

The title of "Doctor" is derived from Latin (docere) meaning to teach and was first used for people who taught (weird that!). It was used for eminent scholars as far back as the 14th Century.

A PhD is a doctor of philosophy. An MD is a medical doctor. A DO is a Doctor of Osteopathy. Yes, all are doctors. All are teachers. As a doctor you may not be teaching at a lecture hall, but then again there are PhD who dont do that either. A PhD may teach through their research. Just as an MD directly teaches patients, nurses and other doctors every day. Everytime you are diagnosed with a condition, a doctor teaches you about that condition. Its called counseling. Today I diagnosed a woman with Type 2 diabetes. Her HbA1C was 6.5. We started with diet counseling. What you shouldnt be eating any more (Sugar, bread, rice etc...). in addition to starting Metformin 1,000. Also counseled her on the complications diabetes can cause if my directions are not followed. >

Can you please elaborate how an MD is more important than the Ph.D. Scientists who discovered all of the science that an MD uses on a daily basis? You know Ph.D. scientists also developed every piece of equipment you use, every pill, even the tubing that you used was developed by scientists. Hell even the scrubs you wear, the chemicals you clean the floor with, the building materials the hospital is constructed out of, the textbooks you learned from, the ink that the textbooks were printed with. You would be treating your patients with leeches if it wasn’t for Ph.D. scientists. >

What are you talking about? I did not say that.  I called out all your points that were factually incorrect. I did not give opinions like x is more important than y at any point. >

They have studied topics in depth, wrote a thesis and got a little piece of paper for it. Congratulations. Normally I don't care, but when they have a palpable sense of entitlement and think they are special about it, I just laugh.
I know plenty of people in industry who don't have a PhD who will probably know far more that someone with a PhD in a related topic after a decade or so of working and progression too, and the kicker? The knowledge they have is actually applicable and in use. I would wager anyone who is director/vice president level or above would absolutely be on par or even more knowledge than someone with a PhD in a related area.
I am a strategic consultant director, and I would say my knowledge is equal to someone who has just got a PhD in Strategic Business Management. Progression in my industry is fundamentally built on learning and development as you work through projects. >

I dont know about PhDs in this field, but my guess is that they have to demonstrate some original thought that advances the field.
So, unless you have made a significant discovery, then you are just blowing someone elses hot air. >

Not necessarily something that advances the field but potentially expand it, not all thesis are equal in value and applicability. For example a friend of mine has a PhD in accounting, her thesis "explores if financial reporting quality increases when audit is in a finance department", her conclusion can be summed up as meh, maybe. She still got her PhD. Quite often PhD Thesis don't advance anything, and instead address the point of little to no literature in said area. 
Now I would argue a lead developer who designed and built a widely applicable accounting tool that is now used by several thousand businesses has contributed more to the field of accounting than my friends thesis that got her a doctorate, wouldn't you? >

No argument here. Just for the record, my post says that they are entitled to, not that they should. >

Of course they are entitled to, I just find it funny that in many cases they seem to wear it like some distinguishing badge and believe that it makes them the ultimate pinnacle of their industry. When in reality they aren't as important as they think they are, and people who are actually in the industry for a decent amount of time could easily rival or exceed them in expertise.
Now some really do deserve the title, and are absolutely at the forefront of what they are doing, but the reality is for 90%, they got their little badge trying to expand the literature of a little known area or ask irrelevant questions that don't contribute much. The latter is where I am poking fun at. >

Again confusing a profession with an academic degree? Medics are medics (they practice medicine) while doctor is a title gained by reaching a certain academic level. Some doctors are medics and some doctors are hystorians. I wouldnt call a medic as doctor just as i wouldnt call an engineer as doctor. Also not all medics are doctors. Still not clear yet? >

No. Did you honestly think that this made sense?