>

Taiwan should not tolerate similar events. Even collecting meterology data it can be used by military.
That's exactly right. I'm not sure what the pushback on this issue is? To me, it is plain and simple; they violated airspace, and could not retract the vehicle. Accident or not, it should be removed so it does not continue to violate the airspace. The move to wait for it over the water was to avoid collateral damage. 
I'm not sure what the controversy here is, aside from China crying foul. >

Theres no way you can spin it's presence in US airspace as accidental when the ground track plastered all over the news literally took it precisely over 2 US nuclear missile silo fields and Missouri where the B-2 is based. >

The balloon is unpowered, so I’m actually quite impressed that they managed to use the natural wind to make it fly over military bases precisely.
EDIT: By “unpowered” I was talking as an aviation term, which means the balloon is not primarily moved by a jet engine or a propeller. It may have propellers for course correction though as someone pointed out.
The power supply for the equipment is not what I was thinking about. >

They’re testing the water to see how the US reacts. >

That's secondary to the primary mission it had. The balloon had a gigantic payload of sensors and probably other equipment. It was so large that it could have, for example, been the largest ground-penetrating radar in the world. It could have analyzed all of the EM communications going on in order to analyze US communication networks to better understand them so that they can be hacked or jammed in the future.
There are a lot of things the balloon could accomplish that Chinese satellites could not. >

Now the question is if the US jammed the sensors so it couldn’t get/send the data it was collecting. >

Supposedly there were AWACS jets circling it all week jamming and/or listening to everything it was trying to transmit back to China.
I really don't think we would've let it fly over half the country if we didn't have reason to. It's not like it was difficult to shoot it down in the end, and if it was doing any real harm to us, we would've popped it over NYC if we had to. >

If collateral damage were the only reason they waited to down it, they could have just downed it over bumfucknowhere Alaska anyway. >

How about balloon wars? Each balloon gets fitted with a 6’ pokey thing that can pop the others. >

All those hours of Nintendo Balloon Fight finally pays off. >

You have been chosen as a champion to represent your country, are you ready? >

I feel like they only shot the balloon down due to the public making a massive fuss. Three of these flew over the USA during the Trump administration, and whilst I can't speak for his competence, I doubt Pentagon officials would have let it slide if it was actually anything to worry about. >

Yeah that's exactly what happened. The DOD doesn't really even give a shit about these things. Only had to react when the public found out and made a big deal out of it. >

The fact america bothered to shoot one down means ya done fucked up. >

It aint cheap to shoot either >

An Aim-9X (the missile used against the balloon) costs approximately 300k USD >

Brb, selling my home for a single AIM-9X. >

I don’t think you can live in it >

Who said anything about living? >

It's all about inserting. >

Seeker growl tone intensifies >

FOX TWO
good boy >

I haven't seen people this excited about a balloon since balloon boy. >

Balloon boy was way better. >

This whole incident is the weirdest song and dance by everyone involved. The US and allies have to pretend to be angry that China is spying on us (no one is actually surprised though) and China has to pretend to be angry that we shot down their "legitimate research" balloon, when we all know that the US is absolutely also spying on China and they would totally shoot down and/or disable our planes and satellites spying on them if they could. It would be much more shocking to learn that either or neither China or the US were spying/trying to spy on each other. >

yep, and it's weirder to see the feigned “anger” on the threads, even weirder to see the actual real enraged comments. almost like I'm dreaming. >

A lot are probably fake, if you think about it. Reddit has a huge spam bot problem. Sometimes you can't even tell because they just copy/paste 99% of a (presumed) real person's comments and posts, but insert spam in between so if you glance at the profile it looks real. Sounds like a huge conspiracy but if you google "buying reddit accounts", it's a huge thing with multiple marketplaces. Mostly for advertising, I thought, but... who knows when it comes to politics. >

What does a balloon get you that just flying around in a chartered jet wouldn't get you? It is not like US airspace is very restricted. It isn't like we are the Soviet Union in the 1950's. >

There are special used airspace that prohibits flights. A balloon can “drift” into it with the owner saying oops, not so much with powered flights >

And also the speed. By being a balloon it travels slower and in turn could potentially get more data than a faster moving object, but each have advantages and disadvantages depending on the circumstances. >

Oh boy the war hawks are flying high today yall. >

If China was a better country without border/territorial disputes balloons wouldn't matter. But since they regularly poke their neighbors like this as a means to manipulate and exert control over them, it is reasonable to use violence to stop it. China could get the west to shut up immediately if they wrote off Taiwan and redeployed their internal forces in ways that doesn't annoy Korea or Japan. They could do this entirely independently of the US and it'd severely harm US influence in the region, which would save them in their real struggle for influence in the South Pacific especially the Philippines, Vietnam and the Solomon Islands.
To use a direct analogy with the US: if the US stopped harassing Cuba with comparable deployments in Florida and the Gulf, people like Maduro, Lula and AMLO would receive Biden's diplomacy better. >

You know Canada and USA also have border disputes right? It's quite a normal thing around the world. >

All Border disputes are not Equal. Canada and Denmark's border dispute involved leaving alcohol. Russia and Ukraine's border dispute involves guns and missiles. Chinas involves ramming ships, which is nothing like the US and Canadas disputes. >

FYI, Canada and Denmark's border dispute has been resolved. We split Hans Island in two.
So Canada now has a land border with Europe. >

Which is a shame, where are they supposed to get free booze from now? >

Well we DO have a land border with Denmark. >

NK and Iran waste time and money on ICBMs when all it takes is balloon and knowledge of jet streams! >

As if this balloon incident is something new?
This shit has been happening for years.
The only thing that made this one different was media awareness
This is juat Taiwan reminding everyone how shitty China is, but the rest of the world already knows.
Too bad we invested all our manufacturing in China and have to play nice with them because  $$$$ >


The only thing that made this one different was media awareness

When and where did the other balloons fly over the US?  I see this being claimed... but where is the proof?  Hundreds of thousands of people were physically able to see this balloon but the balloons that flew over the US during Trump were what?  Invisible? >

If you can’t be bothered to read news articles you really shouldn’t be pretending to have an opinion. You can google just as well as anyone else. >

I did google.  There is no results that state where and when over the US they were seen. >

Because sometimes things are classified. If we put up paths and dates and times of everything we may reveal holes in our defenses to China. If you google it Forbes has an article that quotes the pentagon’s spokesperson. Typically if you don’t get concrete dates it’s for a reason >

As I said before, this balloon was visibly seen by hundreds of thousands of people... yet these other balloons flew over the US and were NEVER spotted by a single person outside of the government?  You seriously believe that? >

Use your common-sense for gods sake! So many complete idiots, just don't stop and think for two seconds! 
How one earth are hundreds of thousands of people going to see a balloon that's 60000 feet in the air? You can barely see a huge jumbo-jet at 20k feet, let alone a balloon a meter or so across at three times that altitude >

1 meter across? >

Even if two, three meters across you just can't see it with the naked eye
For reference a 747 is 72 meters long, more than twenty times the size
Again, basic mathematics is pretty helpful in life - Especially in filtering out bulls**t >

It has the size of 3 school buses according to sources. 
Basic research makes your “basic” math obsolete. >

Also it appeared to travel over the interior of Alaska, where there are important military bases. Likely spied on them too. >

The CCP can take a flying fuck at a donut. If they can't control their spy shit and it wanders over someone's territory, it deserves to get shot down. The fact that two happened at the same time on different continents just underscores the lie by china. >


can take a flying fuckbat a donut.

what >

I think the b is accidental >

Even then, what? >

Fuckat a donut. >

I think other countries should start sending balloons to China. See how they respond. I mean, you don't have to put anything in the balloons, just mess with them! >

Does anyone actually have (know), the exact path the balloon traveled? >

As it came into the CONUS, it lingered for a day or so over the Malstrom Air Force Base. Which is home to a major nuclear missile field. Then it changed altitude, caught the jet stream and moved down to near Kansas City and very close to Whiteman AFB, home to the B2 bombers. This is two important pieces of the "Nuclear Triad" of deterrence. The only piece missing would have been a submarine base. >

I guess that explains the rubber ducky that's been floating around King's Bay. >

I hope everyone is seeing the path where China, Russia, Iran, Belarus and “half of African countries which have been bought/obligated by China investment money” are turning step by step towards some kind of “Axis” forces. 
I truly hope I’m wrong but get ready for 2024. >

Well, fortunately, you're wrong. China and Russia kind of quietly hate one another, and China has nothing to gain by turning towards Russia and against the west. The economy would collapse overnight. >

You obviously don’t know about BRICS. >

You obviously don’t know about BRICS.
BRICS is nothing like NATO. It's just an umbrella term for a couple of large countries. Both China and India are in BRICS. They have frequent border skirmishes and hate each other more than anybody else in the world. >

And both countries are helping Russia currently. >

Brazil is groovey now though >

Goes without saying but a lot of shit committed by the CCP shouldn’t be tolerated. Take the persecution of Uyghurs for example. They’re really starting to push the limits of what the rest of the world will let them get away with. That’s an actual genocide happening here and now in the modern age. Anyone with a soul would look at shit like that and know they shouldn’t be left alone to do as they please. 
But they will. It’s what comes with being the one of the most powerful economies on the planet. It’s like having a rich friend who’s a completely disgusting abusive POS. Can’t upset them otherwise you won’t reap the benefits. So everyone turns a blind eye. Hell in the exact same way, the US knew about the persecution and concentration camps for Jewish prisoners during WW2 yet didn’t lift a finger until Pearl Harbour hit them. And the same is happening. There hasn’t (and probably won’t be) a “Pearl harbour moment” so they’ll just let this happen, because the rich are benefitting, so who cares about anything else? It doesn’t matter if it’s drenched in fresh blood, money is money to these bastards. Just watch. Within a month or so, this’ll be water under the bridge. >

No, it's about; are you going to cross Chinese borders to stop them?  Were you going to cross German borders in 193whatever to stop them?  No doubt economic ties are part of any equation, but how often do you want to go to war?  How often do you go to war, against one party, on behalf of another party?  How far are you willing to go to help some small % of the human population?  What are you willing to risk for, say, 1m people? >

I honestly do think that if China invades Taiwan, the US would 100% get directly involved in some way. Like I could imagine us intentionally intercepting by placing ourselves in China's way and saying "if you cross by force, you're gambling the entire planet away". 100% guarantee that China isn't going to directly attack the US if we physically put ourselves literally in the middle of the Taiwan Strait.
If we get any advance notice, China is boned. They're not invading anyone. They would need to do it completely in the dark without any obvious tells, which would be damn near physically impossible unless they have literal invisibility cloaks. >

Maybe.  Maybe not.  You'd think the US would do so, but if there was a chance of things getting to an existential level event, would the US go all in?  Again, possibly, because of economic reasons, political reasons, etc, but nobody knows for sure.  Even with Russia/Ukraine, the US/NATO is trying to make sure everyone knows its not at war with Russia, despite sending in all the money and weapons.
But the main argument was about the terrible things the CCP does within China.  Are you going to cross Chinese borders militarily to make them stop doing what they're doing to a portion of their population, or their entire population, in the name of humanitarianism?
That's what war is ultimately about though.  If I do this, what will you do?  Will you blindly follow whatever treaty you have, or will you take a second to think?  If for some reason Russia chose to attack one of the Baltic states, would NATO stand together?  NATO has never been truly tested like that.  Would WW3 start over Lithuania? >

I'd ask people to be a little skeptical of all the propaganda proliferating that attempts to downplay the significance or the threat of the balloon. A common strategy on reddit for example is for numerous shady accounts to chime in and argue that because satellites exist, nothing could be gained by a Chinese balloon flying over US nuclear installations. That China did nothing wrong etc...
There are a lot of things an aircraft, whether it's fixed-wing or a balloon, can do that satellites can't. Every major military in the world, that also operates satellites, has intelligence-gathering aircraft that have capabilities that satellites don't have. Supposedly all of these are obsolete and useless because "satellites exist". But that is not the case, they are hugely important and potent ways to gain intelligence and also to conduct electronic warfare.
The balloon had a gigantic payload, a large array of sensors and who knows what else. It loitered over sensitive areas, and then maneuvered and B-lined to other sensitive areas. It flew and loitered directly over the largest American ICBM base, after having flown by the US missile defense installations in Alaska, and then it went on to fly over other important military bases on the east coast before heading over water.
It was obviously doing something that China's satellites don't have the capacity to do. The payload under the balloon was so large that it could have had the most powerful airborne, ground-penetrating radar array in the world, for example. It could have analyzed basically every EM communication going on in the US, both civilian and military, that satellites absolutely cannot do as effectively.
Every time there's a story involving China, there's a major, inorganic campaign in the media and on social media to warp the facts and distract and obfuscate the details. People need to not be lulled by the jokes and the silliness going on. This is a big deal.
This was nothing short of one of the most aggressive, dangerous escalations of tensions between the US and China in the history of our relationship, and the damage done to national security might be incalculable. >


This was nothing short of one of the most aggressive, dangerous escalations of tensions between the US and China in the history of our relationship, and the damage done to national security might be incalculable. 

Umm you do realize this is not even remotely the first time a chinese spy balloon flew over US? >

Left-wing obfuscation. 
China had balloons that flew BY Hawaii, not over ICBM silos in the middle of the US. The news articles that keep going around trying to downplay what happened keep acting like this exact scenario has happened before, it hasn't. No Chinese balloon has ever flown straight through the US heartland like this. It flew over the MOST SENSITIVE military sites in the entire US. >

Thanks for bringing sense into the conversation. Sorry people are not seeing your point.
The balloon is a very serious threat. >

Imagine being scared by a balloon >

Granted, what else would Taiwan say? Let China do whatever they want? Sounds like this was the only possible reaction. >

China: The US is breaking international rules. 
Taiwan: China is breaking international law.
Wendy’s: Sir, this is a Wendy’s.