>

Mandela rolling over in his grave.
"On the first day of Russia’s invasion of Ukraine last year, the South African government demanded an immediate Russian withdrawal. It warned that the Russian military action would cause “human suffering and destruction” and huge damage to the global economy. But since then, South Africa has refused to repeat this criticism, instead choosing to abstain in UN votes, while calling for dialogue and negotiations.
On Monday, when asked whether she had repeated any of her original criticism to the Russian foreign minister, Ms. Pandor said she would seem “quite simplistic and infantile” if she did so – “given the massive transfer of arms” to Ukraine from its allies.
She said her talks with Mr. Lavrov were “wonderful” and she described South Africa as a friend of Russia with a strengthening relationship. Mr. Lavrov, for his part, had only praise for South Africa and its stand on global issues."
What a world. >

Russia might have pee pee pics of Ms. Pandor. >

In South Africa you don't need to have dirt on our politicians. That dirty laudry is on full public display 24/7. The reason for the backpeddaling is corruption and incompetence. And a hold on to power, that's the most important to our politicians. >

Holding on to power while the country runs out of it. The blackouts I hear are unreal at this point. >

What power? You mean the generator/inverter-solar setup that only the better-off people can afford? All the robots are dead, streetlights haven't worked in decades... >

The robots? >

It's what South Africans call traffic lights. >

You mean Chappie wasn't a documentary? >

I can't re-watch that film knowing what pieces of shit Ninja and Yolandi are. >


what pieces of shit Ninja and Yolandi are.

Oh? >

We have so many issues in South Africa and this is how the government prioritise their time. I really hope we can vote out these corrupt criminals next year. >

Good relations with Russia usually indicate a corrupt government. >

Case in point, Belarus. >

Or Syria. >

Iran. >

Venezuela. >

Cuba. >

China? >

North Korea >

Nicaragua >

Hey good for them, tying your country to Russia has never ever back fired on anyone ever in the whole history of the world ever never. >

Even India is slowly backing away from buying arms and fighters from Russia. >

Might be because Russian arms proved to be vastly inferior to their western counterparts in actual combat so we'll see a lot of countries trying to stay away from such second-tier merchandise from now on. >

This is something that is becoming increasingly obvious with the passage of time, especially if you're at all interested in small arms.
The modern AK-12 is arguably a crappier gun than the AK-74 it replaced, in large part because the furniture is crappy plastic pieces that can't hold a zero. On top of that, the Russians apparently can't even make enough of them, and have been burning through their AK-74 (1974) and even AKM (1959) stockpiles
Put it another way - look at special forces units around the world, and look at the guns they use. Even in countries where the primary infantry weapon is an AK, the special forces units are usually using M4-type rifles.
If you're looking to buy the best rifle for your dollar today, you could do A LOT better than even the most modernized AK rifle. >

Isnt that somewhat intentional though?  Maybe I'm wrong but I thought the popularity of the ak was its design allowed it to be made dirt cheap and it was easy to change the stamping in factories that make something else over to produce aks when needed (or nationalized).  Or are you saying the m4 types are cheaper now? >

So, I'm saying both.
In 1959, the Kalashnikov was great, because it had only a handful of complex parts that required significant tooling - primarily the main trunnion. It wasn't terribly difficult for a poor country to repurpose some of their limited manufacturing capabilities to build an AK.
In the same decade, the AR-15 was built out of complex milled aluminum and polymer materials - materials and tools that were significantly more expensive than needed to build the AK. Only super rich countries with advanced manufacturing could build them en masse.
But that was 70 years ago - nowadays, just about every country on the planet has access to abundant aluminum supplies, plastics, and CNC machinery. So the cost of entry for something like the AR-15 has dropped so much that it's much more attainable and desirable, even if it's a bit more expensive than something like an AK-12.
In fact, last I looked, an AK-103 and an M4 rifle both cost about $700 apiece, new off the line. The -103 is a .30 caliber weapon with a bit more recoil, has no optic rail capabilities built in, and weighs a kilogram more than the M4. The only upsides are that it's easier to clean, and ammunition is plentiful.
So, both - the AK used to be cheaper, which made it more desirable. But modern manufacturing makes the AR-15 similarly easy to build, which brought costs down. >

The real question is how cost effective are Russian sights compared to American ones.
Probably jack shit >


Probably jack shit

Yea, their optics aren't worth much compared to western ones. 
All of their common optics (at least the ones with enough production to have gone on the civilian market) have awful battery life. Pretty much all of their battery-powered optics are under 1,000 hours battery life - an Aimpoint PRO (Swedish-manufactured optic used in the west - sold at similar price point in the civilian market) has 50,000 hours battery life. 
At the end of the day, a bad optic is better than no optic, but I don't think the Russians even have enough optics to field them as standard-issue, do they? >

They dont even have socks standard issue, and some of the rifles they're handing out can't even mount optics. Bad time to be a Russian soldier. >

I’d argue that even with comparable arms, your statement would still stand. >

I hate my government.
I really really really do.
These people are completely and utterly useless >

Yeah our government is horrible and I believe that this will yield cheaper gas prices which of course will make the clueless people of this country want to back the ANC even more I don't think there's hope honestly." Majority rule doesn't work in a mental institution" With that being true about these people and them being easily manipulateble I don't think the ANC is leaving anytime soon. >

Even if the ANC were to be voted out, do you honestly reckon they would accept it? They came to power via violent revolution, it's not far fetched that they will seek to retain said power via a similar method. So even if the ANC finally loses in 2024 they may not even recognise it and then what?  
And especially when they are cozying up to the Russian government of all governments. >

As someone born in South Africa this is just sad and depressing to see. But also just straight up confusing. 
Russia is getting its ass handed to itself and becoming increasingly more economically and politically isolated. To the point where even China is smart enough not to fully get into bed with Russia because they can see it’s a sinking ship. 
Sigh, what’s next then? SANDF vehicles built for speed and manoeuvrability over the African Savannah just haphazardly gifted to Russia to be sent to the snowy and muddy deadlock of Ukraine where they’ll most likely be annihilated? >

Cheap gas...full stop. >

Don’t forget the hefty bribes. >

And those lucrative mining investments. >

Dude, when I flew into JNB over those pyramidal tailings piles just lined up, it felt like Geidi Prime. >

The spice must flow >


She said her talks with Mr. Lavrov were “wonderful” and she described South Africa as a friend of Russia with a strengthening relationship. Mr. Lavrov, for his part, had only praise for South Africa and its stand on global issues.

Translation: Russia is paying them for the support. >

What are the Russians giving them.. cheap oil, gas.. what is it. >

Russia could give every South African a kick in the teeth and the ANC would smile. As long as the bribes keep coming in. 
The strategic resources for cheap are just side benefits. >

The ANC goes wherever the money flows. And it's not only Russia, there's just zero loyalty to South Africans as long as theres a lil something nice in it for the gov. >

SA can't even keep the power on, maybe they should try to fix that first. >

My guess is a deal with Russia could bring them a lot of cheap power. >

Nah, trade with Russia is small, it couldve been Iran telling them to do this (they get a lot of oil from there) but in reality it's just the ANC. They're blatantly corrupt and cheap. A simple and relatively small donation to the ANC party or to their bank account will be enough for them to sell out the country. >

Two of the most corrupt crime ridden countries on earth teaming up, maybe they deserve each other >

BRICS = Brazil, Russia, India, China, South Africa
Nice company they're keeping there. >

Add in north Korea, and they can make BRICKS, the thing their citizens should start throwing! >

Change Brazil for Pakistan and they can be PRICKS.
Sorry, Pakistan I don't know if yous are or aren't but the joke is more important >

Yous
Found the irishman <3 >

Haha very close. Scottish but with an Irish background >

so for future reference: is Yous an irish thing or just as common in scotland? easy to get those accents mixed up for a Swede like me >

I can't comment on other parts of Scotland but in Glasgow it is definitely part of our common lingo.
However, was it here before the large Irish immigration to Glasgow or after is beyond me. >

In the US northeast (especially Philly) youse guys spelled various ways is very common and while it probably originated from our gigantic Irish populations it's been pretty widely adopted by everyone. 
Weirdly, people in the other big city in PA, Pittsburgh, also say it but they've corrupted it to yinz, e.g. "how yinz doing?". >

South Africa looking to become a pariah state again >

They have been like that for like a decade or so now. 
There was some bright years after apartheid ended but that was only temporary really. >

I feel I should point out that it's not the citizens of SA but rather our incompetent and extremely corrupt goverment by way of the ANC that is siding with Russia...
Surely any new mansions, yachts or expensive cars these officials suddenly have would just be a plain ol' coincidence... >

They already over stuffed their pockets with South Africans money now there further overstuffingbwith Russian blood money. >

Somebody is getting discount Russian gas. >

Funny thing is, gas isn’t close to being our major source of energy. We also don’t use Russian oil. We honestly don’t get anything of use from a relationship with Russia. >

apparently it might just be weapons and mostly bribes.
just a major red flag every Russian ally is a dictatorship (north Korea, Belarus, Eritrea and Syria) I hope that the SA government comes to its senses. >

South Africa: always on the right side of history >

Never missing an opportunity to miss an opportunity! >

If you never try, you can't lose. >

“Imperialism is bad!” SA as they side with a country currently invading, attempting to annex another country while trying to erase their cultural identity >

South Africa, you’re drunk. Go home. >

As a South African, I agree wholeheartedly. >

Ja nee kyk >

How about a global order where Russia doesn’t attack other countries? >

Please nobody think all South Africans are like this.  The government consists of a uniquely evil anti-human group of people who use lies, spin doctors and propaganda to stay in power.
The educated segment of the population is deeply anti-Russia. >

One big issue is that Russia has begun to focus their propaganda efforts in Africa using the Kremlin-backed RT
RT just set up their Africa hub in South Africa >

RT is currently banned in South Africa at least. Multichoice the owner of South Africa's main broadcaster is blocked from showing it due to EU sanctions. >

It’s honestly Embarrassing watching other countries that are pretty much fucked by corruption looking up to Russia. >

Like attracts like, I guess. Corrupt politicians don't benefit from democratic societies. >

South African here. I don't agree with a partnership with Russia. It's fueled by our current political party and corruption. There is no excuse. 
Please hear South Africa as a nation - we condemn the war against the Ukraine and fully support the Ukraine. 
This is bullshit. A few weeks back, a Russian naval cargo vessel stopped at our Naval port in the Western Cape. There was off loading and onloading done. Our Minister of Defence did not make a statement, we don't know what happened. 
I condemn the war on China against Taiwan. Taiwan should be free. 
We are unfortunately on the wrong side of history. This was disheartening to read, but I saw it coming with the news of the Russian vessel. >

South African here. I deeply apologize for our government. I've voted for the opposition for over a decade and the ANC is deeply entrenched in its massive 55+% majority. >

Why is the ANC majority so constant? Is it the idea of Nelson Mandela's party that lingers on or do people actually like their policies? >


Why is the ANC majority so constant? Is it the idea of Nelson Mandela's party that lingers on or do people actually like their policies?

The ANC has the eternal gratitude of the black populace for bringing an end to Apartheid.
This same story is playing out all over sub-saharan Africa though for countries like Angola, Namibia, Zimbabwe, Mozambique it is about the end of white rule not Apartheid albeit in SA's case white rule and Apartheid go hand in hand, all of these countries have not had a change in government since the end of white rule.
Map of African independence - Take a look at this map, add up the years for each country to present day. While some have changed government since independence at least once if not more, many have not. And that is a major problem facing these countries, the people are enabling it through ignorance and unconditional/blind loyalty. A government that has no risk of being ousted democratically has no incentive to serve its people and better their circumstances. They can grow as corrupt and self serving as they wish with no threat to their grip on power because the majority of the population will continue to support them like a football fan supports his team for life no matter how terrible they perform. >

A horrendously corrupt country that is South Africa wanting to align itself with russia,  shocker. Sucks that  a country with so much hidden potential could be such a failure. >

We've been a failed state for quite a while now. This russia thing is just bringing us to global conciousness >

Pretty much. Always saddened me because it has so many resources,  so much going for it, and it just gets squandered by corruption. >

BRICS vs The Group of Seven. Sounds like wannabe gangs. >

They really do. I'd watch this gangster movie. It's too bad it's reality instead. >

It’s refreshing seeing South Africans here denounce this and just straight up admit “yeah this is a bad idea” versus how Indians and Brazilians on here were tripping over themselves trying to rationalize their stance towards Russia. Nice to see South Africans have a spine >

We hate our government, they have done so much damage, I dont think they could fix the country in my childrens lifetime >

Yeah, corruption is the worst virus. It spreads fast and ruins everything >

I'm leaving SA permanently in 4 weeks. Leaving my family behind, but it's the government making these fucked decisions that makes it impossible to stay - there's no future here anymore. >

I'm leaving in three weeks. It was a difficult decision to make, but now the signs are crystal clear to leave this place behind, unfortunately this includes my family. >

Yeah. It's ripping my heart apart, but I hope in 10 years to be able to provide enough to bring my family over to visit and give them an experience of a world outside SA.
I'm lucky that I married a foreigner so Visa is a bit easier (it still takes 18 months), but yeah.
I'll come and visit hopefully once every 2 years or so, so I'll miss a lot, but I don't have a future here. >

Russia harboured and educated many of the current policial leaders of SA. This is hardly surprising >

Why would any country want ties to a country that majors in corruption and tells truths about nothing? Russia does not make a good friend >

SA is also doing a PhD in corruption, so it makes sense >

Mate, they passed their PhD a long time ago. They're going for a Nobel Prize in corruption. >

Sounds like South Africa has picked a loser. >

South Africa, Mali, Syria, North Korea, Iran, Russia.
Yes, those are the countries that first come to mind when i think of a prosperous future >

As a South African, can someone please tell me how to gtfo of here >

Countries that border Russia hate and fear them, countries far away from Russia like having them around as a nonthreatening counterweight to American dominance. >

My country (south africa) has a major energy problem atm, I wouldn't be surprised if this is just for cheaper fuel...  The ruling party's government is not only desperate, they're also dumb. >

Russia was actively anti-apartheid about 40 years ago which brought life-long loyalty to the African people.  
Russia could literally be nuking the US and the ANC and the majority of the country would still be supporting them. >

Just great, side with a currently civilian mass murdering and sovereign land stealing country. Nelson Mandela is turning in his grave. >

Has a country ever been so utterly on the wrong side of history, after getting on the right side of history..? >

They chose... poorly. >

I’ll make my own G7, with hookers and Black Jack! - Vladimir Putin probably >

IMO, as a South African, I think our government is actually now becoming shit scared of finally being voted out after 20 years given all the shit they’ve caused and failed to fix and deliver on their promises. They’ve had declining votes every election and this year is projected to be the worst yet. 
After seeing what happened with Russia and the US elections, I think that playing the toadie in return for helping “influence” our upcoming elections is what they’re really after. >

Without a shred of irony, they’re siding with a government that actively recruits white supremacists >

South Africa (the government) may side with Russia, but South Africans certainly don't >

On behalf of all South Africans. Russias poes and the ANC's poes too. >

I hate my country. I hate this government. This is not the will of the people at all. The corruption is aggravating. Next year’s elections cannot come soon enough to vote out these criminals at last. >

if only they knew that there are few countries in the world that are more racist and xenophobic than Russia. What a "friend" you have there, dear SA :D >

I am deeply embarrassed to be a South African. I despise the ANC and everything these corrupt fuckers have done to a beautiful country and people. I hope they fucking burn. >

I don't think she understands the level of racism that Russia has deeply ingrained within it. Wild for a country that was so set on making people equal at one point went downhill to the point that they side with a country where black people are seen as lesser. >

Sorry guys, we have a wildly incompetent gauvament that hasn't faced a credible challenge to power since 1994, has an actual policy of putting friends ("cadre") and not experts in positions of power and while being warned 20 years in advance is still unable to grasp the concept of electricity.
And unfortunately the masses still vote for them, might change next year, but we've been saying that for decades.
Now if you'll excuse me I'll just be over there,  being embarrassed for my country during my 12 allotted hours of daily electricity. >

As a south african this is embarrassing >

Oh good, because the last Russian-led international bloc which existed explicitly to oppose “The West” worked out so well for everybody. >

We all make our decisions and alliances. People of South Africa are free to turn to Russia and China next time they need asylum or humanitarian help. I’m sure Russia and China will easily bail them out for any need. >

Africans still have this idea that the west exploited them and are the reason they're underdeveloped. That's why most of them would take sides with Russia and China. >

Isn’t South Africa the rape capital of the world? Russia may not want to be associated. Lol >

Isn’t most of Africa owned by China? >

OK sure, South Africa, I'm sure everyone'll fucking listen to you. >

Gotta love the ANC. They won’t stop until they rape, rob and pillage that beautiful country into the ground >

They got a lot of aid from USSR in the apartheid days, education and military training, etc. Many of those people became higher up in the SA govt >

South Africa has chosen... poorly. >

Lol Inb4 they start blaming "the west" for all of their domestic and geopolitical issues. >

Makes sense I guess. The ANC are about as corrupt as oligarchs can be anyway. >

Ok….  China I can understand but Russia??? 
As John McCain rightly stated: “Russia is a gas station, run by a mafia, masquerading as a country” 
Good luck with that South Africa >

Idiots… >

I’m guessing that they are not Idiots, but in fact just greedy, corrupt, and willing to sell anything and everything they can steal so that they can live in obscene luxury while others around them suffer. >

Why not both? >

That's cute. Russia's economy is about the size of Italy and will likely shrink further. They are a commodity export dependent economy and won't be a great market for other commodity export markets such as Brazil or South Africa. >

They just got over apartheid and now they join those Russian fascists. Must be something fundamentally wrong with that country. >

The ANC (before they became the ruling party) had strong ties with the USSR (supplied them with weapons, trained their militant wing, etc). >

South Africa and Russia are both part of the BRICS nations so of course they are. Brazil, Russia, India, China, and South Africa all are pushing for resource backed economies globally. >

Fuck the ANC. >

Does that mean SA will finally stop leeching the west for foreign aid money and look to Russia instead? >

Hopefully they'll all go live there instead of other European countries. Another hypocritical shit show hate the west but want to wear our clothes. >

So.... let me get this right, the land of apartheid is cool with getting into bed with a country that is slaughtering citizens of another country based on ancestry? That checks out. >

Just remember that South Africa's last president believed you could get rid of Aids by rinsing off in a shower. Oh and r- wording Virgins... >

Everything Mandela did and this woman side with Russia >

The west can answer this by immediately cancelling all aid, and removing current trade deals with South Africa, awaiting them to renegociate. If South Africa decides to make THAT bed, they should be required to sleep in it. >

China and Russia are targeting Africa heavily. Time we took our help away tbh. Let Russia deal with the next Ebola outbreak or genocide.