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Finally Turkey earns some €€ on NATO.
I dislike Turkey as much as everyone else but to be honest its kinda weird to have a ban on arms sales to a country you are supposed to be in a military alliance with. 
But i know other NATO countries have a ban on sales of weapons to Turkey and i dont know the backstory, so for all i know it could make sense. >

Turkey is the only NATO country with the S-400, which is a Russian anti-aircraft / anti-missile defense system. The response was to not sell Turkey advanced jets like the F-35 because the fear was the S-400 could be used to determine the F-35s' weaknesses and flaws - whether done overtly by Turkey, or covertly by Russia.
It should be noted there are a few other NATO countries that have the S-300 system (developed in the mid/late 2000s) which is still dangerous, but no longer cutting edge or as much as a threat to the more advanced fighters. >

IIRC it was a networking issue. The US did not want an f35 to be on the same network as a s400 setup. >

CBA to change that WiFi password 🤷 >

Don't be silly. The F35 runs on Bluetooth >

That's why the recent f35 crash happened, lost its connection to remote controller >

The one in Texas? >

Yeah >

This is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 87%. (I'm a bot)


HELSINKI - Finland and Sweden have adopted a common "Future ally" approach with Turkey in an attempt to fast-track their NATO membership - something hindered by the Ankara government.
Neither Finland nor Sweden imposed a formal ban on arms exports to Turkey.
In soliciting Turkey's support for NATO membership, Sweden and Finland have also found themselves defending their positions and policies toward the Kurdish PYD Democratic Union Party and its armed militia, the Syrian Kurdish YPG. The PYD has links to the Kurdistan Workers' Party, or PKK, which the U.S. and the European Union, including Finland and Sweden, consider a terrorist organization.


Extended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Turkey^#1 Sweden^#2 Finland^#3 export^#4 NATO^#5 >

Not that I advocate this, but is there anything to stop them from reversing the policies once they are full members? If the situation changes, Sweden and Finland could change their minds back. Maybe I’d feel differently if Turkish democracy would go forward again and Erdogan stop jailing his opponents. >

It would be exactly what Türkiye deserves. A slap in the face for selling NATO membership in such a corrupt way. The deal is we defend each other if attacked. Not a corrupt deal of I'll let you in if you help me get revenge on these people that I'm accusing of staging what I'm calling a coup even though accoring to me I did nothing wrong. This kind of corruption will ruin our institutions. >


The deal is we defend each other if attacked.

I want you to let me in a military alliance where you are obliged to defend me if it necessary, however I will put arms embargo on you yet you still have to approve my application because as a westerner I am entitled to anything I want. >

Most of NATO has arms embargos against Turkey, a situation that Turkey went out of its way to achieve. >

"Most" is exaggerating. Turkey still gets a lot from other members. With the exception of Erdogan being authoritarian and buying S400, all other decisions that caused sanctions were worth it. 
Plus, bold of you to assume Turkey would let the others in if they were in Finland or Sweden's position. >

One thing people overlook is that turkey is one of the oldest NATO members. Does it matter here? Probably not >

Unfortunately, Turkey isn't ruled by someone like Atatürk these days, but that incompetent, corrupt and delusional asshole Erdogan. >

Turkey will get what it wants.  Once it gets what it wants, it will demand more.  It will keep making demands because it can and there are no consequences. >

Embargo can be stopped immediately whrn Turkey needs help. Tho that would require that Turkey wants to buy something from Finland.
Now Turkey would likely use those weapons in Syria. Or has too big chances for it to happen. >

Finland has embargo also on Saudi's and UAE.
USA not, but not sure are we even selling anything to there that we could embargo. >

This has never been a problem. Both countries have made it clear that it would not make sense to ban weapons from someone you ask to help defend you.
The real problem for Turkey and Erdogan is that they harbor Kurdish activists that Turkey would like to get their hands on. >

If there is still a problem, yes, it will be clear it's the activists. I think this past week or so, Sweden, having already accelerated the extradition process to send a number of Kurds to Türkiye, got a result. But not a result Erdogan sought for his revenge. The process, rightfully independent from political executive, denied the extradition. >

It will never be enough. Erdogan asks for a cookie but wants the factory it was made in. >

I really wish we could just kick Turkey out of NATO in exchange for Sweden and Finland, but unfortunately their strategic position makes that seems highly unlikely. >

Jesus that’s such entitled view. You already state that turkey contributes a lot and is strategically valuable ally, yet you wish you could kick them out? Why not show some respect and be more accommodating to your important ally. >

Turkey is a corrupt fucking shithole that threatens its allies, invades neighbouring countries and is willing to go make deals with NATO's geopolitical rivals/enemies to try and force the hand of those with whom it's supposed to be allied.
It's a shitty ally, and as long as it's lead by its shitty, corrupt, incompetent leaders, the country in general will also remain shitty (which is a shame for not just anyone outside the country who has to deal with Erdogan's bullshit, but also the decent ones among the ordinary Turks). >

My god you have some shitty view of the world. Stop seeing nato member sucking each other’s dick as a good thing, or making NATO some sort of club/side which defeats its purpose to be a military pack which reduces conflict… there are no “rivals” or “enemies” of NATO, quit the Cold War geopolitical shit mentality already. 
And if Turkey has shit leaders… who has great one huh? F nobody has good leaders… they are all corrupt incompetent. Quit being this hypocrite high ground warrior. Turkey is great individual nato member, just cuz it not sucking US or other European members dick, doesn’t mean it is not worthy ally and shouldn’t it’s view and interests  be respected. >

NATO is exclusively an anti-ussr/ Russia alliance with no other real purpose. No one is going to attack European members because other countries know that the US loves fighting >

Stop saying you hate Turkey. You hate the decision makers >

Honestly, fuck it. Finland and Sweden should just stay out of NATO if this is going to be the price. They're already de facto in NATO as the major NATO powers have already said they would intervene if Russia attacked them. So there's no real need to "make it official" if Turkey is going to be such bastards about it.
Furthermore Russia's laughable performance in Ukraine has shown they're much less dangerous than previously thought. People used to fear Russia could march on to Warsaw or even Berlin any time they wanted, with only the promise of US military intervention preventing this. Now we've seen that's not even remotely the case. They can't even manage to march on to Kiev, and that's without US intervention! Ultimate paper tiger. >

As a Finn, I say that our border security is far more important than any moralistic pandering. If we join a military alliance with Turkey in it, we'd better work with them on military issues. >

As a Swede, I'd say that a nordic-scandinavian military alliance would be more than enough to keep the Russians at bay. Combine that with the fact that a large part of the EU would not just stand by if something would happen. >

Yeah you’re wrong about that.  Ukraine has a much bigger army than your proposed Nordic alliance, and they’ve been at war for 8 years now and have received equipment and training from nato that entire time.  They’re hardly a pushover.  Russia struggling there doesn’t mean they’re no threat to the significantly smaller Nordic countries. >

Honestly Turkey drives me insane with its political games