comment: >
  
  Was just able to book a flight out tonight. Thanks for the extra bit of luck!
context: I have a friend who's flying in on the 27th (tomorrow). We thought she would be fine because the storm would have passed by then, but it seems the cascading effects of all the delays might ruin that flight, too. >
  
  Some years ago I was trapped in Chicago for a few days when the airlines were all mass-cancelling flights. I remember for two days leaving the hotel, going to O'Hare and sitting and waiting for thousands of others to see if our plane would leave that day. They just had people wait for 12+ hours waiting just in case. Then they sent us back to our hotels. At least they were then still paying for the hotels and meals because of the delays, but they do that less now a days.
  Finally, United found a seat for me on an American trip to a city about 50 miles from my original destination. I took a cab ride from one city to another... it was the weirdest travel experience I ever had. >
  
  When I worked at an airline we would tactically cancel flights. Like if there was a flight with 5 people and a flight with 200 people at the same time we are going to cancel the 5 person flight and save the 200 person flight. However when shit gets real crazy it’s time to start canceling because you will never recover if you keep pushing yesterdays problems to the next day. >
  
  Honestly assumed that global flight schedules were like…handled by AI.  flight schedules for thousands of planes in dozens of time zones Just always seemed like the kind of work a computer would do. TIL >
  
  I would be absolutely stunned if they didn’t do it that way, because that’s the kind of problem AI had been working on a couple of decades ago. 
  It’s not just the one flight with five people. The scheduling system is depending on that plane and flight crew being in Dallas by 5PM, and if they’re not there’s going to be follow on consequences. 
  I’m actually surprised there’s not an integrated system between airlines for rerouting and such. I was once on a flight out of Dallas and through persistence (I had to get home to take care of pets, because the sitter I was paying couldn’t work after that morning), and they put in a Herculean effort to re-route me through a couple of different cities to go around a storm. 
  I know I’d pay a premium on a ticket on American if I knew they had integrated with other major carriers so that passengers could avoid delays whenever possible. I’ve taken cabs between airports in DC just to avoid them. 
  I know it can’t fix all of the problems, but I’d really like there to be more adaptive systems. >
  
  AI does not exist for this. They do have a program which can minimize atc effects by delaying or moving up flights to minimize atc impact but man everything that happens is done by a person. There are purpose built tools which can help you have situational awareness but basically it’s moving up crew members to save the flight in 5 minutes and worry about the flight in 5 hours later. It’s really just a clusterfuck at times. Lol if this sounds interesting to you then airline ops is for you. It’s not for the faint of heart. Ultimately you can just make the best decision based off what info you have but sometimes you will have to delay or cancel and that has an impact on our passengers and it sucks for them but ultimately you are trying to limit the cascading effect. >
  
  I am a manager at a FAANG who runs a machine learning group, and have an entire career invested in designing such systems. This is eminently solvable, and if you’re an industry person saying that such a thing doesn’t exist, then we should probably look into doing that. >
  
  Lol decades of operations research by thousands of PhDs and you think you can turn the crank using some ML algorithm and get it to work? Such arrogance. It's a huge mixed integer linear program with a gigantic state space and so many constraints to consider that it's not solvable in any easy way. "Good enough" doesn't work when a hard constraint is violated as it might in content recommendations. >
  
  But but DaTa ScIeNCE will solve it! >
  
  Fuck I have a southwest flight tomorrow morning >
  
  No you don't. >
  
  Flight was on time already got to my destination >
  
  A happy ending after all :D >
  
  We were boarded on a flight on the 24th, and our flight was cancelled and we had to deplane because they didn't have a pilot. Our rescheduled flight (the earliest available) is on the 28th and I'm not optimistic. >
  
  Same situation with United on the 23rd. Right before boarding they tell us no pilots and then it took them 3 hours to tell us they couldn't get any (aka almost 1am)
  How the hell do you not figure that out and notify people until that close to the flight? These airlines are disgusting >
  
  Pilots may get stuck last minute somewhere else. It’s a fragile logistical operation >
  
  The pilots that landed the plane coming in couldn't go because otherwise they'd exceed the FAA hours max for the day
  And they didn't figure that out or say anything until boarding started for the last flight out that day to my destination the night before the biggest snowstorm of the year. Inexcusable >
  
  They were trying to locate reserve pilots, they don’t know until 5 minutes before you do. They’re doing their best >
  
  Nah man
  It is inexcusable to either 1) not track your pilots' hours and only realize there are no pilots when everyone is at the airport and expecting to board or 2) track the hours, know there are not pilots, and not tell anyone 
  One of those two situations happened, and neither is ok. Absolutely beyond me why you're out defending this, especially with it being something you did not experience or witness
  And to have that level of fuck up the night before a storm and two nights before Christmas Eve? Doing their best lmao
  Oop here come the big airline simps >
  
  
  The delays are worse for the crews
  
  Absolutely. I felt awful for the rest of the crew stranded because one of those two above situations, that can be avoided, happened
  
  Airlines care about money, we LOSE Butt loads of money when this happens
  
  As they should. Delays and cancellations that are the airline's fault should make them lose money. That doesn't make it any more ok
  
  Lastly “track the pilots hours”
  
  Yup, absolutely is feasible to track hours via a computer system to ensure no one goes over the max and everything on that end is covered
  And if that's not being done, congrats for identifying another problem by acting like it's impossible for airlines to track hours of their pilots
  
  What happens when we attempt to land, can’t due to weather, divert to another state?
  
  Weather and mechanical delays are par for the course and cannot be avoided. Those did not happen to me. I said nothing about those types of delays
  Cancellations because of no pilots due to 1) exceeding daily hours and/or 2) a shortage that the industry is partially to blame for can be avoided 
  And when I see the same types of avoidable delays constantly happening with some airlines (United for me), and not others, it shows they are avoidable issues >
  
  
  You didn’t address my comment about what happens when a flight diverts last minute. How do you magically make another crew and plane appear magically?
  
  That didn't happen in my situation, mate
  I don't care if you're a pilot, this was a completely avoidable cancellation. The airline apologized, accepted full responsibility, and is issuing reimbursements and refunds
  And yet you're here going around all self-important like a jackass, why? You like my Christmas plans getting ruined? You think airlines are these infallible creatures? >
  
  The ONE time I had an issue with a Southwest flight, I was able to book a flight on another airline. The issue was actually with the terminal, and the other airline flew out of the other terminal so I caught the shuttle over there and was on my way.
  I called Southwest when I got back from my trip and explained what happened.  They refunded the entire cost AND gave me $100 flight credit for a future flight.  That was about 18 years ago and I still fly Southwest exclusively when I'm flying in the US. >
  
  They’ve gone way downhill lately in terms of reliability. 3 out of last 4 trips with them outright cancelled and have not been able to get rebooked, leaving me to scramble to find last minute flights with other carriers at exorbitant rates.  No compensation other than refunds. They are operating so lean right now that any disruption has huge cascading effects.
  On top of that, they’re not even that cheap anymore. Minimum $600 round trip per seat every time I’ve looked.
  Used to be my first choice; now I will think very carefully before choosing them again. >
  
  Honestly I never understood why people take SW. Whenever I fly domestic I always check their prices and everytime in the past 5/6 years it was higher than united/Alaska/delta... Maybe it's my destinations but I just don't see the point of SW when you have to pick your seat. Alaska is my preferred airline, they're pretty cheap and give me credits whenever there are delays or cancellations >
  
  Free rescheduling or canceling flights has always been my main reason for choosing Southwest in the past. >
  
  And no bag fares, which makes it so much easier to plane/deplane when people aren't messing with their bags >
  
  Sitting in Oakland waiting on the bag from my cancelled flight. 2-4 hours est. to get it back. Rebooking JetBlue lol
  Update: 6.5 hours after my flight was cancelled, my bag finally came out. >
  
  My SO and I had a flight out of SJC to SoCal at around 2:50pm on the 23rd. They didn’t cancel it until ~4-5pm and they rebooked us the morning of the 24th. They said they didn’t have a pilot lol. The plane was at the fucking gate. 
  I was already fucking annoyed so we just drove 6 hours on the original departure date. It would’ve been much better if they just cancelled it all together and I could’ve left SJ the morning of instead of in the evening and having to drive through Central Valley fog. Fuck SW. >
  
  Getting out here was almost as bad for me - was stuck in midway overnight on the 22nd (luckily got a hotel to catch a four hour nap and shower), ended up in san diego en route to SJC (nothing left to oakland until the 25th), then was in san diego for about 6-7 hours thru another cancellation and ultimately flew into sacramento, so extra hour added to the drive from the airport as well. Side note, san diego is on my airport shitlist now, i had to go thru TSA 4 times that day because there is no behind-security connection between their two banks of gates. >
  
  I’m upset because their app didn’t even notify me as it usually does but I had to go look based on this post in Reddit.  Also…my flight to my destination was cancelled but not the connecting flight lol, I mean what’s the point. >
  
  Their app, website, and phone lines have been down today. Gate agents can't even book new flights for people. >
  
  Even when the app isn't down, it doesn't always match what's going on in the airport when it comes to delays and gate changes. I had those kinds of problems last summer. >
  
  Tried to fly ORD>AUS today and was told there are no flights to the state of Texas until the 31st. >
  
  What?! Supposed to have a direct flight into Texas tomorrow.  How did you find out?  Should i just call before going to the airport? >
  
  I was at the gate at 12:30 and the screens still said “on time”. Today was all fucked. Show up anyways in case ur flight is not cancelled, but I didn’t get much of a notice so I would prepare for that. I was in line at tsa when the flight updated to delayed 
  This was told to us by SWA desk agents >
  
  That's good to hear,  kinda.  So by "delayed", they're talking about delayed to a future date and not even the same day,  that's wild! >
  
  Right. It was delayed for a bit then cancelled. Get a refund and fly on a diff airline if possible >
  
  Thanks! Hopefully things work out for you.  Right now mine is saying "on-time" for tomorrow when others are already showing canceled. >
  
  And if your flight doesn’t get cancelled, good luck getting your bags. Their systems were apparently down recently and they just put all southwest bags in a big pile at the end of bag claim, not even bothering to sort it by flight >
  
  Happened to me flying to Denver (stuck here 3 extra days!) it took them 2 days to find and deliver my bag to me. Oh, and fuck the people working the baggage claim desk there. They gave me a fake phone number to call to check my bag’s status.  
  We tried to get a car to do a 1 way bomb back to Chicago but there were 0 rental cars in Denver, Boulder, Golden or Aurora. Honestly, the wife and I are debating just biting the price-gouged bullet and booking something with united or american so we can get home >
  
  You could always try the Greyhound or the Amtrak if it's that bad. >
  
  Looked at Amtrak and had no luck. If I was traveling alone I’d be fine with greyhound but my wife would hate that >
  
  My wife’s was scheduled to depart at 0515 this morning, no notice cancelation once we got to the airport at 0400.  I booked her a flight on American at the next counter. >
  
  American gets a bad rep cos expensive, but they have come through for me always, and while a bit tricky their customer service is pretty good… funnily I’ve never been delayed with them or Iberia. >
  
  Having had four flights cancelled and eventually renting a car to finally get home, the delays and cancellations have to deal with management failing to put crews in place prior to the storm and not weather. Twice they boarded either most or all of he plane to make the determination they didn’t have a pilot. Delays and cancellations are not weather related, it is solely based on managements failure to anticipate where flight crews needed to be after the storm passed. >
  
  Im sitting on a boatload of southwest credit from when they screwed me over; That might be my last flight ever.  I dont even want to ride their shit. >
  
  Send that credit to me lol … I still use them 😅 >
  
  Seriously lol SWA fucked up big but like during normal times they’re fine. If you score a companion pass it’s one of the most valuable freebies out there >
  
  Should I just cancle now? >
  
  Honestly, yes. I'm far from an expert but I imagine southwest will be figuring this out for the next two weeks. >
  
  I just left that mess (luckily) the flight attendant got on the intercom and said it will take them at least another 4 days just to deal with todays meltdown >
  
  Oh my yes. Those of us working for credit card companies….it’s been fun today with the ticket calls, lemme tell you. 
  Some airlines/travel companies are doing the equiv of putting their fingers in their ears and going lalala can’t hear you, to hear some callers going on  about it. >
  
  Are companies like yours generally honoring chargebacks for customers with canceled flights? I'm debating cancelling my flight and renting a car instead, but only if I get refunded in full rather than credit towards a future ticket on Southwest. >
  
  If you go through the SW website to cancel it gives you a choice of original method of payment return or future credit. >
  
  The online system is melting down too. Our outbound flight was canceled on the 23rd after we were at the gate. My wife decided not to make the trip at all so did not get rebooked. But because we had checked our bags already, they wouldn’t allow us to cancel the trip via the website. I spent 2 hours on the phone and no one answered. Then two days later spent an hour plus waiting in line for the gate agent and had them cancel my wife’s return flight. >
  
  They fucked up so badly. We had our pre Christmas flights canceled at the gate and then again today. We had to drive 2 hours to get a red eye over an icy mountain pass. Just cancel the fucking flight and let me make other plans with my time. Their poor customer facing employees are being served a massive shit sandwich. >
  
  Same thing happened to me. Had to drive over a pass with a FWD compact without winter tires. >
  
  This is selfish and irresponsible. You could get chains from a tires store. People who do this deserved to get ticketed for also getting stuck and ruining traffic for other people. >
  
  You’re absolutely right - in hindsight it was irresponsible. Desperation for sure caused a lack of judgement >
  
  10 years ago I started training to become a pilot. But, I couldn’t make the money part work. There were no loans for training, best i could get is some repayment from the GI Bill, but nothing really existed for financing. It is hard af to swing flight school with hustles full time. 
  So, I stopped. I got into software engineering instead, and I think I can get an old Cessna one day. 
  But, just in case anyone is wondering where all the pilots are that they could have been training, the answer is the airlines chose profits over any such safeguards for the future. Airlines weren’t all that interested in creating pathways to the pilot seat that didn’t involve already being able to afford training. 
  United has a program now, but it kind of floats in and out of existence. 
  Maybe they all assumed they’d be doing away with pilots by now? 😬 >
  
  Some of the youtube pilots I follow mention this. In other countries it is very common for the airlines to pay for your training. Here the airline expects you to come on board ready to go. >
  
  Cost of training is also much higher in other countries and they often end up shipping their students here to train. Apples and oranges >
  
  What’s the reason for the difference in costs? Honestly surprised to hear that the U.S. is a cheaper choice. >
  
  More flights possibly? Your options foe long distance travel are either multiple days of driving or a 5 hour flight. In the UK, air travel might be less preferable because there's so many other options to get around. >
  
  Honestly wtf is wrong with SW? No other airlines are having these problems. It’s ridiculous. I have a flight on Jan 2nd I just might cancel and book on a different airline if it goes on like this into next week >
  
  Same we’re flying out on the first of the year and this is very alarming. >
  
  SW has let me down twice this year, I might just say fuck it and book a different airline sooner rather than later lol. The anguish to my mental health isn’t worth it >
  
  What happened the other two times? >
  
  Cancellations on cancellations due to “weather” which was residual from days prior. Both times I ended up having to switch airlines because I absolutely had to get back ASAP. Otherwise I would have had to wait a day or 2 for the next SW flight. I first blamed Covid and worker shortages (and worker shortages may still be going on for sure). But the fact that this isn’t happening on any other airlines is very concerning and I can’t go through it again (“it” being not just the multiple cancellations & time wasted but also the poor customer service and inequitable reimbursement for all my troubles and the flight itself). Probs won’t be booking SW again after this >
  
  Ooof I’m really dreading having booked with them, thanks for sharing. Hope everything works out and safe travels to y’all. >
  
  The fact that I didn’t even get an email from SWA but rather a notification from a 3rd party app really says something >
  
  I work at an airport that primarily Flys southwest flights and its been utter chaos, I pray for all the agents that will have to deal with very angry passengers >
  
  Which airport so I can know if my upcoming flight will be completely untenable? >
  
  long beach California, lines have been upwards of 3 hours ive heard >
  
  Currently on hour three of waiting in line just to get rebooked and/or refunded. It’s a nightmare. >
  
  Good luck