comment: >
  
  I did misunderstand it yeah. But because incels see women as lesser humans is no excuse to see them as lesser humans.
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  I honestly don't know what incels need, but there are PLENTY of positive male role models they had to actively ignore to get where they are. I think they might just need a break from the internet and the toxic community that wants them to wallow in the same illusory misery they're in. 
  That being said, insulting and demeaning people does not help. You're right. However, you can and should point out incel ideology when you see it. >
  
  🙄 yeah, you don’t know what incels need, you women are the problem and have the answer to solve it >
  
  What makes you feel that I'm a woman?
  Also:
  
  I honestly don't know what incels need >
  
  It doesn’t matter cuz if you were a woman you still wouldn’t help, you know damn well what we need, we don’t choose to be celibate >
  
  I'm not saying I'm not a woman I'm just curious why you assumed.
  Are you saying that you feel that all you and other incels need is sex?
  I'm curious- are you aware that sex is available for purchase? >
  
  The positive role models don't resonate with them. 
  You're technically right. But the problem is those "positive role models" that you speak of often say things that just don't resonate with incels. For example saying something like "You should go out to listen to music and dance, not to meet chicks". That is like speaking gibberish to a person who otherwise can't stand going to clubs. 
  Andrew Tate and Jordan Peterson are saying things that the incel types are already thinking in their head. That is why they garner a following.
  You first have to do a lot of research on what resonates with that crowd. Which I'm sure we are doing already as it is a very widespread phenomenon. Simply trying to plug people as role models is never going to work. >
  
  Exactly.
  Incels have blamed all of their problems on one thing - woman. 
  Trying to convince them that, hey, you can live a fulfilling life without needing a partner to validate you, and they look at you like you’re crazy. They have convinced themselves that they need a woman to have any value…not realizing that this attitude of dependence is extremely unappealing and part of the rut they are in. >
  
  
  They have convinced themselves that they need a woman to have any value
  
  As a former incel myself. I would say that this is not something anyone needs any convincing of. If anything you have to convince yourself the opposite. That sex and relationships are not the most important thing in life. Because the default for most humans is that IT IS the most important thing in life. Just look at how much of our art, music and media focuses on sex and romance. How many people put their family as #1 on their priority list. 
  There is a lot I don't agree with incels on. Particularly the woman hatred stuff. That never resonated with me. But the being extremely depressed when you're single part. That is definitely how I've always felt. >
  
  That’s a cultural belief, reinforced by our media, that a man needs a woman to be “fulfilled”. It’s not biological. Plenty of other cultures and civilizations have had alternative arrangements where men could be self-actualized on their own. 
  This is one of the narratives we need to change. I call it the “Superbad Effect”. The cultural belief that a young boy needs a woman to turn him into a man. Either the pursuit of the woman makes him a man, or getting the girl itself makes you one. Superbad is the most obvious example but it’s a trope in tons of 90s/00s movies. >
  
  There absolutely is a biological component here. Loneliness and desire for a partner is not purely a socially invented thing. Now, societies can manage the loneliness of people in healthy ways (monks, etc. as you say) or unhealthy ways (allowing an addictive infostream of monetized incel propaganda to be privately beamed into someone's head daily for years). But to say that it's not at all biologically driven for people to want a mate, and to be disappointed or frustrated at not being with someone, is going to lead you to very weird conclusions. >
  
  There is a biological need for a connection, yes. It’s just our culture that says it has to come from a nuclear family. 
  Men have a loneliness epidemic right now. The answer isn’t woman though, it’s not their jobs to fix men. >
  
  Nobody said it was. The point under contention is your assertion that men have convinced themselves that they need a partner to have value/be fulfilled/etc. when that is not really true -- it's at least in part a biological default, for many people. >
  
  I’m not convinced it’s the biological default.
  There’s an impulse to breed that is biological. Relationships and marriages and all that are human constructions designed to steer that impulse. 
  We’re in a weird transition period where the old social constructions are dying and we haven’t settled on new ones yet. We need a new paradigm where men and woman are equally self-actualized. Men need to channel their impulses towards product endeavours…but with no expectation or implication that a woman is the trophy at the end. A self made, self reliant independent man is going to, almost hypocritically, be very attractive to women who are equally professional and goal driven. >
  
  I don't think it's about "the trophy at the end". It's an unmet need for these people (out of many other needs they might have, some met some not). They see attractive people and want to be with them. They see funny charming girls and want to be loved by them. They see people in happy relationships doing things they themselves would like to be doing, and long for that. Then, for some unlucky few, they didn't have people who set them on a healthy course for that and have gone down a bad path of blaming others rather than becoming awesome. >
  
  Desire? Yeah. Huge desire? Sure. 
  Need? It’s not a need. Need implies severe consequences if you go without it. Food and water, a place to live, those are needs. A partner to share life with is a want, not a need.
  This is part of the language problem, part of the narrative problem, we have to get away from. Men need to be able to be successful and content without a partner. Needs being met and goal being reached means you are a successful person! 
  Implying it’s a need leads to implying that woman are hurting men be choosing to be independent themselves. It’s a slippery slope toward blaming woman for men’s unfulfilled ego. >
  
  While what your saying is true, you can’t expect people not to insult them. A good bit of them are misogynists. You can’t expect people to just be nice with them as they spew hate and bigotry. Its like saying “ don’t insult or isolate that racist. They just need to meet more kind hearted black people and learn that we are all the same on the inside”. It is technically true, but unreasonable to expect people to do it. >
  
  Insulting people isn’t going to get them to change their ways. It’s only going to get them to double down on their shitty views. Instead ignore them.   
  But let’s be honest, it’s not really about that is it? It’s about internet pricks looking to put people down. Most of the time the people on the end of “incel” aren’t even incels. They are just nerds or geeks or in some way socially awkward. Name calling on the internet has gotten so out of hand that it’s taking away from real issues. Racism, sexism, homophobia are all very real problems. But the internet today dilutes these issues by making endless false claims and needless escalations when really it’s just a difference of opinion.   
  “I don’t like the rings of power.”
  ”that’s because you hate women and black people!!!”
  ”no, I just think they didn’t honour the spirit of tolkiens world.”
  ”oh Jesus, you’re a fucking incel!”
  Thats the usual exchange, you can sub in whatever topic you want, that’s generally how it goes. >
  
  I agree that people do throw around insults too much now a days, but there are times where it’s warranted. It’s really a case by case basis type of thing.  I agree that insults could radicalize the individual more, but it could also show them that what they think is wrong. What insults and shaming does really well is show people what not to be like. This has a societal effect where less people will adopt these beliefs, as they see the social ramifications of having them. It’s not a perfect solution, but it’s the only one they deserve ( unless they are willing to make an honest effort to change, or get help). >
  
  
  we should lift them up in a positive way
  
  Who's we?
  That's the key thing here. You're not fundamentally wrong, insulting incels is unlikely to change them.  But who's going to do all this? Women certainly aren't, why should we put in all that effort for people who think we're lesser humans. Other men? 
  Prevention is probably key here, stopping this kind of attitude developing before it starts. >
  
  Don't think of them as lesser humans I guess. >
  
  Just to clarify, who are you telling to not think of what group as lesser humans? >
  
  People think of incels as lesser humans. >
  
  I think you are misunderstanding the previous poster. They are saying that incels think that women and lesser humans.