comment: >
  
  It's crazy that even saying that there are more guns than people in this shithole of a country is enough to trigger the 2A fetishists.
context: Would it kill all these news agency to link the articles, going to guess the news and data isnt as clear cut and there are some key information is left out. >
  
  They can't risk us clicking away from their shitty sites. Web analytics and marketing is a major reason why out news is trash. >
  
  The fairness doctrine being weaponized, and then repealed, is the actual reason though >
  
  It started with Operation Mockingbird >
  
  That was the, "weaponized" part of my comment. Good look on the link >
  
  Yeah sorry, I never waste an opportunity to talk about it 😂 >
  
  Haha right on, I wasn't trying to gatekeep my own comment. It's great to provide links etc. It's pretty funny that a law designed to be bipartisan, and eventually led to this current disaster, was first bent over by Kennedy and basically finished off by Nixon and friends. >
  
  A bunch of Glock switches came from I wanna say wish. Before the govt recognized what they were and stopped it 
  :Edit a Glock switch is the illegal device used to SWITCH a standard Glock to full auto. >
  
  What are they sold as on wish or did they literally just market glock switches on their site? >
  
  They marketed them as full auto airsoft conversions, was a good year or two where you'd see airsoft Glock switches on Wish that just so happened to look like real ones pop up as related on anything gun adjacent. >
  
  Right next to the "car solvent traps with baffle assembly" that was clearly a firearm supressor.
  Nice try ATF. >
  
  I still don't get why suppressors are banned, its not like the movies.  It just takes a ear popping noise to a slightly less ear popping noise >
  
  Logic has no part in this. Neither side of the gun debate wants to give up ground, whether a particular regulation makes sense or not.
  If our government was composed of functional adults who care about the country and its citizens, maybe they could compromise - suppressors and SBRs become legal without a tax stamp, in exchange for a few of the common sense gun laws the left has been asking for. But we don’t have that kind of system. >
  
  Love to see a rational approach to the issue. >
  
  "The most expansive federal report in over two decades on guns and crime shows a shrinking turnaround between the time a gun was purchased and when it was recovered from a crime scene, indicating firearms bought legally are more quickly being used in crimes around the country.
  It also documents a spike in the use of conversion devices that make a semiautomatic gun fire like a machine gun, along with the growing seizure of so-called ghost guns, privately made firearms that are hard to trace." >
  
  Everything continues to get worse. Congrats NRA. >
  
  My money is on social media. Buy guns,  immediately tell all 986 people they "know" cause people are like that. >
  
  my money is on guns >
  
  Yeah, that is the problem.  My gun nut brother in rural red state america had a \~$50k gun collection but forced his wife and daughters to live in an unimproved 80 year old hovel he bought for $5k.
  When it came to finding evidence he was a POS, well, that was a lot of it. >
  
  That guy just sounds like an asshole, and happens to be a gun owner? >
  
  Yeah sounds like they're saying owning guns makes you an asshole lmao >
  
  Stolen guns are a huge problem.  My father in law has his house burglered and they took his entire safe. It must of been 4 men at least to lift into a truck.  Cops recovered exactly none of them. >
  
  A lot of people keep their firearms in their vehicles as well which are easily broken into. People in rural areas storing guns behind their seat or people in general sticking a handgun in the glovebox. If you're going to break into a car, checking for firearms would always be worth it given the likelihood of one turning up. Even in the reports it says that of the million stolen guns 96% were stolen from private citizens. That's a lot of guns.
  Edit: my hometown had a big problem with this. Rural bumblefuck God and guns county where it felt like every shitty pickup had a rifle and a shotgun behind the seat and a pistol in the glove box and they would just be left there unsecured. Shit was constantly getting stolen. >
  
  But those people being stolen from will be sure to call themselves responsible gun owners without any hesitation to think about how being a responsible gun owner included properly securing your weapon. Last I checked, leaving a gun in a glove box or behind a seat is not properly secured. But they sure are responsible gun owners. >
  
  Leaving a gun in a locked box isn’t being responsible? Taking it into somewhere you can’t have a gun isn’t being responsible either. >
  
  The glove box isn't a locked container for guns. Yes, pretty much every glove box has a lock, but you can easily break into most glove boxes. A gun containers is supposed to be a safe. >
  
  You can break into anything dude.
  Love that you didn’t address the second point though. >
  
  You’re just not supposed to have a gun ever silly. This is Reddit duh >
  
  You “people” certainly shouldn’t have any guns. >
  
  What’s you got against Puerto Ricans dog wtf? >
  
  I look forward to a mature and nuanced discussion of the results. >
  
  Obligatory “fuck the ATF”. They really are a shit agency that needs to be dissolved. >
  
  I mean, to be fair, someone does need to regulate alcohol, tobacco and firearms for the safety of the user. someone needs to make sure the tobacco isn't filled with arsenic, someone needs to make sure the alcohol doesn't have a mix of ethyl and methyl alcohol, and someone needs to make sure gun barrels don't explode and harm the user, and prevent faulty trigger assemblies from going off when knocked slightly.
  I'd prefer if it wasn't the Consumer Products Safety Commission, they already banned all the fun fireworks and lawn darts because idiots got hurt with them, whereas the point of guns is typically to hurt somebody (that isn't the user).
  but as far as the whole "you can't have this cool accessory" thing, we definitely agree. >
  
  ATF's current issue is they think they are a legislative branch and can redefine definitions so that today something is legal and they said it was legal for 10 years, but tomorrow they changed their mind and now it is illegal.
  They hide behind that they are just reinterpreting the definition, but the fact remains, it was legal yesterday, not today, congress didn't pass it, ATF made law and they can enforce said law to punish innocent people with 10 years in prison. >
  
  The problem of course being that ten years ago the thing they said was legal was rarely used by certain professionals. Fast forward to the industry and customers finding out it is a loophole that allows xyz version of firearms and they are everywhere. Now it poses a different risk profile to the public so they change their stance on it. 
  Is this the best way to be represented? 
  Congress should be setting up an organization of firearm experts and having them craft policies and laws that protect all their constituents, including firearms owners and non-firearms owners.
  Oh wait, that is what they did. They set up the ATF who hired experts and have watched them do this non-legislative legislating for decades. And despite the changing of definitions and policies without a direct law, Congress has not reigned them in yet. 
  I say it's not the ATF that is the problem, it's Congress. The Left wants the ATF to go hard so they won't stop it, and the Right loves when gun people are angry at the Left so they won't stop it either. And come election time, both sides use gun anger to drive people to the polls. So where's the motivation to solve it? Meanwhile, you and I are left checking the web periodically to make sure the thing we want to buy and use isn't currently illegal, and isn't likely to be made illegal next week. >
  
  Imagine trying to do mental gymnastics to say its okay that a governing body can tell you that you can't put something on your shoulder or put your hand around a grip, or use something with 2 hands...all nonviolent things, what a hell of an authoritarian regime we are in.
  The ATF will be ripped apart in court for this overreach, and they've exposed the unconstitutionality of SBR's being on the NFA. >
  
  All nonviolent if I'm using a camera sure. But on a rifle? It certainly does make them easier to use. 
  My point above isn't that I think they can or should be telling anyone anything. It's that it isn't going to be solved by sassy punks on the internet. You need to agitate for Congress to do something about it. And the courts are a half solution at best. Some other judge can come along and reverse it a decade later and we're no better off than before. >
  
  What is wrong with making something you have a right to easier to use? Please explain without using balancing of interests and "for the greater good" rhetoric. >
  
  Don't know if you've noticed, but gender reassignment, CRT books, and abortion aren't exactly getting easier to access in America.
  But that aside, your rights end where my nose begins. Alcohol is something you can drink as much as you want of, but sale is strictly regulated from an industry and consumer standpoint. >
  
  Quite interesting is the states where crime guns were traced to the purchaser (not necessarily the criminal though). Wisconsin, South Carolina, Georgia, Ohio & Alabama had the highest trace rate. Most of those states have fairly hands off approaches. 
  On the other hand, Hawaii, California, New Jersey, New York and Connecticut had the lowest rates; those states all have very strict registration laws. I wonder why that is. 
  Also interesting is the data around gun shows. 3% of “crime guns” are traced to gun shows. The report does note that it is possible for private citizens to buy/sell outside of FFLs at those shows but only if they are not engaging in the business of doing so as defined by federal law. C.F.R §478.11.
  Also noteworthy is the multiple gun transactions data. It is a small fraction of guns linked to a crime which themselves are linked to a multiple gun purchase. May we surmise that staggering how many guns may be purchased is ineffective?
  Also, firearms chambered in 5.56/.223 were involved in 0.5% of submissions. 
  Very interestingly, 58.4% of cases the traced purchaser and the possessor are not the same person. A further 29.4% are instances where the purchaser is known but the possessor is not. So 87.8% of all cases the traced purchaser appears to not be the criminal who broke the law. 
  Lastly, it is noteworthy that the overwhelming majority of prohibited persons do not get their firearms (which are later used in crimes) via FFLs (licensed dealers). Rather, they get them via illicit means that when the various trends and data are assessed indicates that they were either trafficked or stolen. >
  
  It's strange to me that in all these statistics about gun crimes/homicides AR style rifles account for a fraction of a percent yet they're the big boogeyman that gun bans go after. Why not put all this effort towards handguns and maybe actually accomplish something in regards to crimes/homicides? >
  
  This is something gun owners have been screaming forever now when gun control comes up. Semi auto rifles in general, and specifically AR variants account for veryyyyy little overall crime. Yet it’s always the category of firearm targeted.
  Enforce current laws strictly and swiftly, open up NICS to private sale, stop letting violent criminals off so easily when guns, especially stolen/illegally modified are used. >
  
  And when semi auto or pump shotguns, which are almost never demonized, are used in mass shootings, the results are absolutely horrific. 
  They are so much more effective, and yet the left (where I staunchly sit, except for this issue) constantly rails that you can just have a shotgun instead of an ar. Watch a ballistic dummy take a round of buckshot and then tell me that. >
  
  Sweeping federal gun crime?! 
  “This is my broomstick” >
  
  I mean, Joe Biden did tell us all to go buy a shotgun.
  Who are we to not shop smart, shop S-mart! >
  
  " 1.07 million firearms were reported stolen between 2017 and 2021.  
  That is lot of firearms in the wrong the hand. >
  
  But we have background checks! And red flag laws!
  Damn lotta good those will do if the criminal is using a stolen firearm. >
  
  Sounds like you need storage requirements. In Australia, owning a handgun requires a properly installed safe that the police sign off on. >
  
  You can really see the efficiency of cutting out the licensing process for guns.
  We can do better but we're going to need gun vending machines on street corner and in bars. >
  
  Do you think that data is because there isn’t a waiting period or because criminals who steal a gun get let out on income driven bail plans in 24 hours lmao >
  
  Either case the root cause is high availability / easy access to firearms. >
  
  By that rationale the root cause is humans existing. The primary cause would be people stealing guns regardless of their availability >
  
  Technically correct but contextually irrelevant. >
  
  It’s literally the most relevant thing contextually. The root cause of DUI is technically cars being super available but realistically it’s criminals choosing to drink and drive. You can’t say the criminal activity is “contextually irrelevant” lmao what the fuck >
  
  Thank you. >
  
  
  shrinking turnaround between the time a gun was purchased and when it was recovered from a crime scene, indicating firearms bought legally are more quickly being used in crimes around the country
  
  And literally nothing will be done about it. >
  
  I've posted this before, but here goes again.
  I was in the firearms business for the better part of a decade.  Occasionally we'd have someone come in and try to conduct a straw purchase, or they'd exhibit telltale signs of planning to traffic guns.  
  Every single time I contacted the ATF, they referred me to local law enforcement.  Local law enforcement would then tell me it was a matter for the ATF.  I gathered names, numbers, and documentation.  All that went into the Blue File.
  The people I turned away and reported sometimes got smart and tried a different approach somewhere else.  Sometimes they were successful, and sometimes those guns were present when those people got arrested.
  So then law enforcement would come around asking if I'd dealt with them.  That was when I'd pull the Blue File and give it to them. >
  
  It all goes back to enforcing what is already on the books.  We haven't even had a good faith attempt at using the laws already in place so the solution is to say they don't work and create new laws. >
  
  The same party saying we don't need new laws is also the same party responsible for sabotaging any attempt to enforce existing laws. >
  
  I really enjoy firearms and shooting, but the gun community is completely off their rocker and has been for a while. Bump stocks are still legal, gunshow loophole hasn’t been closed in several states, SBRs have flooded the market because of the pistol brace loophole - Jesus, not even a fucking bill of sale is required for a person to person trade in most states. You literally don’t even need to attend a course or demonstrate you are aware of BASIC firearms safety and regulations when you get a CPL/CCL in several states. It’s out of control. I grew up around guns and I really like shooting them, but wow, the gun community needs to pull its head out of its ass instead of parroting the rhetoric of firearms manufacturers. Asinine. >
  
  Gun grabbers are pearl clutchers who don’t even understand the issues, let alone how to solve them >
  
  Well given that they keep passing gun control and then CA has multiple mass shootings in the span of a week...perhaps the solution isn't gun control. Perhaps there is more common ground and ways to reduce gun violence without touching the rights of the people...but no, no politician wants to do that, they think it is easier to just attack your rights than it is to address social and economic issues they've let stray in this country.
  And I don't mean to be a conspiracy theorist, but when laws that would have prevented the conduct were already in place, they knew of a threat, and didn't use said laws, then come back and say they need more laws...perhaps the issue is the system and them not actually enforcing anything...is this because of a system failure, or because they want excuses to make more laws? Well given you give them an inch they take a mile when it comes to 2A and based on their rhetoric, it doesn't seem like they'll be happy until they take as many miles as they can, almost like it's their agenda.
  Tangent: They argue time and time again "why won't the gun lobby compromise with us" because there is no compromise, they just take take take and nothing is given back ever. Republicans last year were idiots and thought that by passing that gun control legislation it would mean the democrats would lay off the topic, but no they want more and they won't settle till they have it. It is a common occurring pattern in humans to continue to want more and never be satisfied with what you have. >
  
  Defund the police to force crime rates to skyrocket so you can blame the crime on guns that were stolen because you defunded the police. >
  
  It's cute that you think cops prevent crime, rather than showing up hours later to take a report. >
  
  You're graph doesn't show that. It shows the exact fucking opposite - when the number of cops decline after 2010, crime rains low. >
  
  Arms manufacturers really have this country by the goddamn balls.
  We’re arguing and killing each other while they make billions. 
  They must giggle like schoolgirls every time someone suggests that more guns are the solution to gun violence.
  EDIT: you gun groupies are in pretty serious denial, huh? I guess it’ll be tough to admit that your “hobby” is just another corporate scheme to remove money from you. >
  
  Yeah guy, that’s how businesses work. 
  You know what increases demand in this country? Mass shootings. 
  You know what is used in those mass shootings? The guns they sell. 
  They’re making their fortunes off the blood-soaked classrooms of elementary school children and a decent chuck of the population is A-OKAY with it.
  So yeah, they’re giggling like schoolgirls over how stupid people are in this country. >
  
  Yup.  Grew up with a rifle for deer season, a shotgun for goose season and a 0.22 for plinking.
  None of them had military styling though, and so they're simply SO uncool according to today's Call of Duty wannabes. >
  
  the 2nd amendment has nothing to do with hunting, fudd.
  and a hunting rifle puts an orange-sized hole in your chest compared to an AR15 so I don't know why you're concerned with if it's painted black or not >
  
  Man that call of duty comment really cheesed some people off.
  What I’ve noticed is if you paint it black and you add some radiator fins and give it a plastic stock and there’s some fool out there that’ll overpay by a factor of two. Just a gun show rule.  Looks over capabilities. >
  
  Crime guns is a term used because the terms legal and illegal aren't sufficient.    Legal gun sales = illegal gun supply
  The biggest loophole is private sales and gun shows.
  Gangs in Chicago source their guns from Indiana.   They drive to Indiana, load up in weapons and then sell them to criminals.   No repurcussions to the people who sold them.
  We need stricter federal laws requiring background checks and a paper trail.
  Dealers shouldn't be accountable if 1 gun gets used for a murder but if many guns get traced back to the same dealer, revoke their license. >
  
  
  Crime guns is a term used because the terms legal and illegal aren't sufficient.
  
  When it comes to the tracing system, crime gun is something of a misnomer.  Any weapon that enters the tracing system for any reason is classified as a crime gun by the ATF.
  So if you're cleaning out gramps' barn, you find a couple of guns, and you ask the sheriff to run the numbers, those are now crime guns.
  
  The biggest loophole is private sales and gun shows.
  
  Gun shows are cited as a source of 0.8% of crime guns. >
  
  
  There is a lot of fake info and soft science when it comes to guns.
  
  I completely agree, but the stuff that gets dressed up as science can sometimes be the worst.
  And there are problems with this study.  The main sources include Gun Shows, Brady Checks and Crime Gun Traces, which is an internal study done by the Brady Campaign.  They have a vested interest in promoting their law and criticizing exceptions to it, and they often don't provide their raw data.  They've been busted doing studies on very suspect data in the past.
  As for the Following the Gun: Enforcing Federal Laws Against Firearms Traffickers ATF study, I have a hard copy of that somewhere.  It mostly just dealt with their tracing operations in general and didn't specify a percentage.
  When it comes to the Wintemute/Harvard study they cite, it appears the data was gathered by just walking around a few gun shows and watching transactions.
  So, could the number be higher than 0.8%?  Maybe.  Is it 30?  No way.
  Now, as for the whole "gun show loophole," it's an utter lie.  The Brady Act wouldn't have been workable if it included private transactions, so the advocates and politicians pushing it agreed to limit it to sales from licensed dealers.  That's not in any way a loophole.  It was an intentional, knowing concession. >
  
  I've been reading this thread and the replies, and as a non-American I gotta say...this shit is fucking weird.
  You all realize that, right?
  Edit: lol, touched a nerve and made some people a bit mad! Your downvotes and angry dm's mean as much to me as those thoughts & prayers do to dead schoolkids. >
  
  Sorta. But you have to be aware that threads like this often tend to attract people with strong opinions about the issue and may not accurately represent the general population. I don't know where you're from but your own nation likely has at least a couple of political and/or social issues like that. >
  
  "Responsible citizen" buys gun to protect themselves, their gun is stolen because it's improperly secured, gun is used in crimes, someone is robbed, hurt or killed. "Responsible citizen" sees gun crime is rising, buys gun to protect themselves, rise and repeat.
  Meanwhile the gun industry is laughing all the way to the bank, selling products to people scared of other people with their products >
  
  ::sigh:: It is soooo hard to find a responsible American gun owner anymore. They're all just one bad day away from being the next Adam Lanza. >
  
  You mean, minus the tens of millions who never commit any crime? >
  
  Considering about five thousand of those crimes are from the police, who don't report such crimes because... well because, I might not consider this a very accurate picture of the magnitude of the problem. 
  Apparently the article writer chooses to blame rampant murder with guns to be a "stolen gun problem" rather than the crux of the matter - guns being EVERYWHERE - even in the hands of six year olds.