comment: >
  
  No shit
context: Ah yes, because no dystopian future novel has ever started with "and then the government started to harvest organs from prisoners" :/ >
  
  It’s literally Unwind by Neal Shusterman, I remember the big bads were trying to get a bill to make prisoners go through the unwind process. >
  
  The 'Gil Hamilton' stories by Larry Niven. No prisons on Earth. It's either a fine or you're broken down for parts. Earth has 20 something billion people. >
  
  Also: "A Gift from Earth", by Lary Niven - Where a colony in space is divided into former crew and the passengers, with the crew ruling over everyone, and the passengers getting their organs taken for any little infraction to grant the crew essentially eternal life. >
  
  As a haemophiliac who was lucky to be born two decades after the infamously terrible blood plasma donation scandal (here in the UK) - this sounds like a terrible idea. >
  
  Wait, what? Infamous blood plasma donation? >
  
  Love a happy ending
  “No government, healthcare or pharmaceutical entity in the UK has admitted any liability in the scandal. “ >
  
  This is your reminder that the 13th Amendment banning slavery makes an exception for prisoners.  
  If/when they send you to prison, you are a slave.  This is how they get away with 'paying' you $1 dollar for a day's labor. >
  
  Here’s your pay for assembling shelving we will use in our government buildings.  Oh you want to call your mom this week?  I’ll takkkke that right back. Thanks. >
  
  It's obscene and absolutely soul-crushing to realize that we're all potential slaves to the state. >
  
  Incorrect.
  We are slaves to the entities that control the state: the aristocracy.
  The state is the only means the masses have against the aristocracy. However, when the aristocracy controls food, media, housing, and education, they have little issue turning the masses against the state as a fall guy.
  The state is a tool. The masses have abdicated any responsibility for maintaining the state and checked out; Leaving the aristocracy further in control of the only tool that can control them.
  Hating the government is a narrative fed to the poor by the rich. >
  
  sounds like something someone poor would say >
  
  You can look at my post history for my car if you want to play that game. 🤣 >
  
  wow you are proud of owning a car? another thing a poor person would say lmao >
  
  You know a lot of poor people with $170k cars? >
  
  I know one. >
  
  Lmao based >
  
  The true goal has arrived.  The merging of the criminal justice system and the private healthcare market.  These laws will pop up and jails will become the plasma donation centers of body organs. >
  
  *slow clap in economics* >
  
  Nobody questioned how Steve got his 100 years sentence reduced to just 5 after donating 10 kidneys, four lungs and 20 corneas. >
  
  Nothing says they have to be your organs.  Serial Killer Steve walks out of court for 'Time served or organs donated' >
  
  This just shows that our punishment system has nothing to do with keeping the public safe, or Justice for that matter. >
  
  I get where the fear comes from, but how is organ donation, and incentivization to donate, not a good thing for public safety? >
  
  Why haven't you given your organs up for public safety, citizen? Please report to the nearest detention center. >
  
  Why do you think that's the natural conclusion of this? There have been and will continue to be prison initiatives that lower sentences for doing good deeds. What you are describing is an unrealistic scenario, the government doesn't really have any incentive to do that. In any case, most organ donations occur after the donor has died, so why are you more scared about prison giving an option, in which the outcome will only probably affect you after death? >
  
  It was a joke, but even in the context of prisoners being offered the chance to give up their organs, this is still pretty awful. This is creates all the worst incentives, especially when paired up with America's high recidivism and private prisons. >
  
  It's not like they are giving away all of their vital organs. It also doesn't decrease a person's sentence by much, like 6 months to a year was the max.
  While recidivism is a problem, and prisons should be transitioning into rehabilitation over punishment, this isn't that big of a problem. The incentive is to save a life for reduced time, something that already exists. >
  
  
  The incentive is to save a life for reduced time, something that already exists.
  
  Donating organs for reduced time is not something that exists. Nothing even close to it does AFAIK. If this were occurring in any other country, we'd be calling them Authoritarians 7 days to Sunday.
  This shit is insane. >
  
  There are many examples of prisoners who've saved a life by fending off atrackers getting reduced time. 
  If you read the statement I said that THE INCENTIVE FOR SAVING A LIFE FOR A REDUCTION IN TIME ALREADY EXISTS. Which is objectively true. Not all authoritarian measures are bad, I don't know your politics but if you believe in things like socialized Healthcare and gun control you agree with me. Organ donation isn't an end all be all. It's not what causes totalitarianism, that happens outside of prisons, with ordinary citizens. >
  
  
  There are many examples of prisoners who've saved a life by fending off atrackers getting reduced time.
  
  Insane mental gymnastics 😂 >
  
  How? >
  
  Larry Niven wrote a series of novels exploring this idea. Eventually even jaywalking becomes punishable by death because everyone wants organs in the banks >
  
  Ah. I didn't think the 2001 Dreamcast classic 'Headhunter' would be the dystopian route we took but here we are. >
  
  This would be unethical and highly suspect even if you could trust due process in the courts and in law enforcement.  And you'd be a fool to trust those things.  A fool with only one kidney. >
  
  The bill is being submitted by Carlos Gonzales, a Democrat who's attempting to claim that the bill will help support Black and Latino communities, who have been statistically and historically effected by Organ failure.   
  Which uh, Is certainly a reason that sounds like it's from the Onion by by god it's his reason. That being said, I am confident in stating this is mere political theatre. It's either a stunt to get his name around or otherwise something he'll reveal to have been satire for reasons beyond my mere mortal comprehension.   
  I'm going back to bed. >
  
  Actually, he isn't entirely wrong. Some transplants do need to be as close as possible to someone's genetics, which means that POC can have a harder time finding transplants. 
  I just feel like this will have the opposite effect. It would be better to have educational campaigns and work with local community leaders. >
  
  I mean, since we’ve got a surplus population of POC in prison, may as well take advantage of the situation and put them to good use and harvest their organs for the good of society, right? /s
  An actual solution would be getting more POC to qualify for health insurance so they can receive care before their health is critical. Government/healthcare also needs to put in the work to improve the relationship between healthcare and POC. POC have been used and abused and ignored for far too long. If you knew your chance of experiencing serious complications or dying from the surgery was higher than if you were a white person, why the hell would you consent to altruistically donate a kidney? Or if you can’t be sure you’ll have access to good healthcare in the future if you ever have your own issues, why would you risk it? This is for sure the harder route, but it is the actual solution to the problem. Not coercing organs from prisoners. >
  
  And this just feeds into a common fear among black people, which is that their organs will be harvested and less care will be put into saving them. 
  The thing is, it isn't an entirely irrational fear. >
  
  ORGANS?  Right out the blank? In dystopias you at least get some slippery sloope to get there, like donating blood or something >
  
  This is abhorrent and will only be used to exploit poor people and it's not really consenting, more like coercion. >
  
  The trick will be to get them while they're fresh. I imagine that after a few months in prison, those organs won't be very good for anything >
  
  RimWorld leaking in the worst way >_> >
  
  This is worse. The Massachusetts bill only reduces your sentence by a year, I let people go after I take what I need. >
  
  This is so unethical, I honestly can’t believe an actual person put this forward. Someone should check on whoever proposed this because they have no soul. >
  
  The guy touting it is Carlos Gonzales, a Democrat who says it's to help Black and Latino communities who are statistically more at risk for organ failure. 
  Which uh, I dunno chief. That's pretty flimsy. >
  
  It’s incredible flimsy. Why not just address the cause for black and Latino communities having higher levels of organ failure. By that logic it’d be okay to eat prisoners to help the hungry. >
  
  You might not want to give him ideas. >
  
  Man I hope all the people who were fucking livid that China was doing organ farms are equally as outraged about this. Like holy shit the coercion into making prisoners organ cattle is craaaazy. >
  
  This is actually sickening. >
  
  Not sure where this bill came from. Didn't see anything from healthcare or inmate advocacy groups from either of the bill's sponsors. I already asked my rep to have this withdrawn. >
  
  The guy touting it is a democrat claiming it will help black and latino communities which is certainly a reason.   
  I get the feeling this is more a political stunt than an actual bill he wants to get passed. >
  
  So, body snatchers? >
  
  So, it's the "permanent detention" option from the Simpsons. >
  
  And if I am in prison and I can afford to buy an organ from some other inmate, do I get credit?  Might as well turn all prison sentences into fines.
  Or I threaten my cell mate with death or organ donation, do I get credit? >
  
  It is. Especially if the organs are going to people in power/with money. >
  
  The true nature of what these prisons are is slowly appearing.
  More parasitism from the elite.
  When it comes time for them to pay back all they have stolen from the people, we won't forget their organ harvesting attempts. >
  
  RimWorld is leaking into the real world... >
  
  Im actually okay with this. Lets give them a day off their sentence for plasma donation too. >
  
  Here have my left nut. >
  
  I see you ran a red light… nothing that a small slice of ear wouldn’t solve… mUAHAHa >
  
  My life was forever changed by a deceased organ donor and yes, POC do have a higher rate of organ failure. The lack of understanding in this country about how organ donation works is staggering. The last time I was at the DMV I talked to several people who thought that if they became organ donors hospitals would try as hard to save their life. These same people were stunned when I told them that in Pennsylvania the average wait time is 7 years and in other states its 10 years or more. 
  We need to do more about public education regarding organ donation, like PSA's on TV instead of pamphlets at the DMV that no one reads. >
  
  This country is getting unlivable >
  
  unliverble >
  
  The prison time will cut itself dramatically if the right organs are donated. >
  
  EDIT 2:    TLDR: It Would be nice if more non-prison people would become  organ donors. No prisons shouldn't use it as a means to release people early and force them to always be organ donors. Shame there is no incentive by government (tax credit or something) to become one.
  Honestly more organ donor's would be awesome. 
  The proper method for getting more would be a government give a tax credit for being one. i.e here is 500 for being willing to donate and save lives. Would just need to work on rules/regulations to prevent folks changing it in last part of the year for it and then removing it after tax season ends.
  Edit:  Please note Im not saying to use corecion or to "force em" just  said the idea of more organ donors would be great. That is all. forcing anyone to do anything they dont want to is bad mkay? >
  
  Coercion is bad. >
  
  Inherently, there are ethical concerns when it comes to selling organs because people could be financially coerced into donating an organ. The same concept applies in this scenario.
  Also, I didn't downvote you. >
  
  It's a great deal, but it's going to need a lot of oversight to avoid coercion
  Edit: see u/airlewe's comment below regarding the government's estimation of the value of human life. This deal may actually not be so great. >
  
  It’s not a great deal. You get, at most, a reduction of one year. >
  
  Yes. A year in prison. Methinks you underestimate exactly what that can mean to an incarcerated individual. >
  
  You’re missing the point. For what’s being given up, prisoners deserve FAR more than a year off their sentence. This is the worst type of exploitation. Worse than slavery. They’re banking on desperation to drive people to sign up to be organ farms. It’s… dystopian doesn’t even describe this. This is so far past unethical. >
  
  
  You’re missing the point. For what’s being given up, prisoners deserve FAR more than a year off their sentence.
  
  Fine, what's the FMV for an organ, in your opinion? 
  
  They’re banking on desperation to drive people to sign up to be organ farms. 
  
  Hence my comment regarding strict oversight. I see absolutely nothing wrong with allowing people to voluntarily leverage what they possess. >
  
  
  voluntary
  
  To imply that this is a fair and free exchange is INCREDIBLY dishonest. These are literal prisoners. The dynamic is inherently imbalanced. If you’re driven to do something by an external force (being imprisoned), then you’re not truly entering into an agreement freely. If you enter into an agreement out of desperation, there is no fucking way you can use the word voluntary to describe that.
  Kidneys are about $262,000 though >
  
  
  If you enter into an agreement out of desperation, there is no fucking way you can use the word voluntary to describe that
  
  So poor people shouldn't be permitted to sell plasma because they're "entering the agreement out of desperation"? 
  
  Kidneys are about $262,000 though
  
  Which equates to.......what? Honestly, give me your estimate on years behind bars. >
  
  Actually I don't have to give personal opinion here. The US government officially considers the average life to be worth $10,000,000. Why do we have this number? It's complicated, but mostly for insurance purposes. If we take the average US life expectancy of just under 77 years at time of writing, that makes each year worth almost $130,000. So, by the governments own valuation of a human life, prisoners are being treated as worth less than half of a person. This "offer" is exploits people for at least 50% of their worth.
  Whereas selling plasma is safe and actually decent money. You take out plasma, it grows back. Kidneys don't. >
  
  
  Actually I don't have to give personal opinion here. The US government officially considers the average life to be worth $10,000,000.
  
  That is fascinating and I had no idea, thank you for sharing. And you're right, the fact that the government has an official estimation and values the organ tradeoff the way they do makes this way sketchier.
  Thank you for doing the legwork on that. >
  
  No thank you! I love doing the math on problems like these and if we hadn't talked I wouldn't have been driven to do this math. I didn't know half of this when we started >
  
  Why unethical? It’s a choice. >
  
  Because most people are going to choose to wrack their bodies and risk death to get out of literal prison, and the sentences will be inflated af to get to that result and with an already incredibly broken system, you can't see the prison profit pipeline branching out and find8ng myriad ways to profit from this? 
  What choices do you really have when you are in prison? >
  
  They can get a maximum of a year off their sentence for a kidney. Look up the prep and healing and recovery for donating a kidney. This is preposterous. >
  
  Sorry Reddit, but this atrocity was proposed by a democrat: State Rep. Carlos González
  This is disgusting and he should be laughed out of the building. >
  
  Is anyone on here defending it because it was proposed by a dem? Nope. Only one party in the  US has a large group of radical loyalists that put their party and leaders over country to the point of violence and domestic terrorism. And it isn’t the democrat party. 
  If a dem has a dumb idea, laugh them out the building. Vote them out. If an elected dem breaks a law, prosecute them. No one is above reproach or above the law. >
  
  Right, right, I was just interrupting the liberal circle jerk that is Reddit. >
  
  You're not interrupting anything. The comments are overwhelmingly against this, and considering Reddit's demographics they are likely to be majority liberal.
  Try verifying that the thing you're calling out actually exists before making an embarrassment of yourself. >
  
  Wilfred Killowitz, the kidney snatcher, is happy with this arrangement. >
  
  I think this a fantastic opportunity, as long as it requires a 2 kidney minimum. >
  
  Ew. Just. Ew. >
  
  You know what's more effective? Default donation. Everyone donates everything unless they pre- register that they don't want to.