comment: >
  
  Ok good let them do it
context: This is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 87%. (I'm a bot)
  
  
  TAIPEI, Taiwan - Taiwan scrambled fighter jets, put its navy on alert and activated missile systems in response to nearby operations by 34 Chinese military aircraft and nine warships that are part Beijing's strategy to unsettle and intimidate the self-governing island democracy.
  ADVERTISEMENT. China has sent warships, bombers, fighter jets and support aircraft into airspace near Taiwan on a near-daily basis, hoping to wear down the island's limited defense resources and undercut support for pro-independence President Tsai Ing-wen.
  Chinese fighter jets have also confronted military aircraft from the U.S. and allied nations over international airspace in the South China and East China seas, in what Beijing has described as dangerous and threatening maneuvers.
  
  
  Extended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Taiwan^#1 China^#2 military^#3 U.S.^#4 Chinese^#5 >
  
  
  “China is always a force for regional and global peace and stability,” ministry spokesperson Mao Ning said at a regular briefing.
  
  The vast majority of China's neighbors would attest otherwise. >
  
  Yeah, Vietnam would HEAVILY disagree… >
  
  Publicly, they can’t be too antagonistic with China, but the South China Sea dispute and Vietnam’s growing ties to America seem to suggest a different view…. >
  
  Anti-Vietnam Propaganda?
  I thought that this was about the militarized islands that China keeps on building in Vietnamese territorial waters and Vietnam dredging in a bid to keep their own military presence in their own territorial waters strong enough to deter Chinese aggression in the region. I mean, China's doing that to FIVE DIFFERENT NATIONS to the point where various countries are trying to rename the South China Sea to things like the "West Philippine Sea" or the "Natuna Sea" to rhetorically bolster their claims while they are, also turning rocks and reefs into fortified bunkers against repeated and aggressive Chinese incursion. >
  
  Taiwan having a claim to something is largely irrelevant, they aren't the ones building air strips and missile bases in the area and demanding that others stay out. Besides, I wasn't just talking about the Spratlys. I was talking about the Scarborough Shoals, the Parcels, and the utterly nonsensical fight the CCP is picking with Indonesia.
  Ideally, all of this would have been solved if China would simply accept the judgement of an independent arbitration and the proper application of the United Nations Law of the Sea (a treaty that China is a signatory to) or if they didn't torpedo the ASAEN treaty negotiation that was intended to hash out all these territorial disputes when it became clear that literally no one (with the possible exception of Taiwan) takes the 9 Dash Line seriously. >
  
  Doesn’t Taiwan literally have a military installation on one of these islands >
  
  Coast guard stations may or may not be military. There's a dock, an air strip, and a couple of support buildings. It hasn't been operated by the Taiwanese marines since 2000. Coast Guard does more in the way of customs enforcement and rescue than fighting of other nations.
  Though the 2016 arbitration agreement means that they should probably abandon its claim to the island. The US does not recognize Taiwan's claim to the island, and still use the pre-1946 name and nationality markers for it in all official documents. >
  
  So same same, different... but still same >
  
  China making threats it can never back up. >
  
  And yet every 5 minute EU/Washington/Japan is busy "warning the world" that a invasion is imminent. 
  It is almost like schrodinger's China. Either posing a threat to world stability or a paper tiger meowing in the corner. >
  
  It's all the armchair generals on reddit that keep saying paper tiger,  whereas real generals regard them as legitimate. >
  
  There are so many soldiers in their army. Zerg rush. >
  
  My life for Aiur. >
  
  Unlike Ukraine, Taiwan has been preparing defense and helped by the US for decades.
  It'll be very expensive for China to take Taiwan if not impossible with the US fighting with them.
  Fuck Xi the Pooh! >
  
  China would need to cross the strait with about a million troops.  
  They have naval landing craft sufficient to move 30 thousand.
  China is bluffing. >
  
  Their plan is, allegedly, to use the landing craft to establish a beach head and then reinforce using civilian craft. >
  
  There are limited beaches that are easily defendable.  With nearby mountains to put fortified artillery in.
  It would be far more difficult than d day in ww2. >
  
  Yep.
  Their plan, allegedly, is to rapidly eliminate Taiwan’s air defense so paratroopers and aircraft can enable the landings. Even then, they still seem to be facing long odds on a landing. >
  
  Lol remember when Putin tried to do that exact same thing? Drop in some elite paratrooper commandos during the first day in a blitz to eliminate Big Z and the Ukrainian government. Didnt work out great.
  And doesn't Taiwan have all of our current gen, cutting-edge military hardware ready and waiting? Sounds like a fools errand. I also think it's foolish that they think it would go anything like Ukraine, in that the US would only engage in a proxy war by sending supplies and weapons. PRETTY sure that it would result in the US declaring all out war. Hopefully they aren't this fucking dumb >
  
  I don't think all out war is really possible between 2 nuclear powers. Has it ever happened? >
  
  It will happen eventually. The future is grim. >
  
  It's fine. There's enough nukes to knock out humanity but not life on earth. Eventually something from earth will gain enough intelligence to colonize outside our planet. >
  
  Future species will adapt to an irradiated earth. We won’t be part of that future though. >
  
  Fuck the CCP! >
  
  No one's fucking China in this thread? That's progress. Plenty of people here are still trying to justify China = CCP >
  
  
  Plenty of people here are still trying to justify China = CCP
  
  Anyone who's been on Reddit knows that Redditors hate the Chinese people as much as they hate the Chinese government. Just go into any thread about random a Chinese person doing something random and it's all hate comments and various comments about the government. >
  
  Fuck the CCP, and anybody who supports it willingly >
  
  So why are you on reddit, a CCP-funded company? I'll wait for you to delete your reddit account. >
  
  You >
  
  "My argument is so shitty I have to sugarcoat it with colorful pictures."
  You >
  
  Well your argument seems to be "your opinion criticizing [thing] is invalid unless you have sworn an oath to never interact with [thing] or anything else connected to [thing] in any way whatsoever."
  This is an utterly absurd, asinine argument if you spend more than 2 seconds thinking about it. The interconnected nature of modern society makes it practically impossible to swear off all interaction for any [thing], meaning if your argument were taken to it's logical conclusion, nobody would have any standing to say any [thing] should be improved. Yet the argument has been so overused by people who think they're clever and/or are not arguing in good faith, that someone made a comic with pretty pictures to help "clever" people like you realize how comically absurd their argument is. >
  
  Reddit is by no means a necessity. You can dump it any second. It's too funny to watch people bash an entity while contributing to it at the same time. The hypocrisy here is just too strong and funny. >
  
  I'm guessing China is just trying to goad Taiwan in taking the first shot so that China can retaliate and have an excuse to invade Taiwan. >
  
  Not a penny should go to funding mainland China’s war path from our pockets. Manufacturing is leaving the country and continue to do so. Capital and investment should follow as with our consumption of Made in China. 
  Mainland China depicts most of the world as an enemy. We must recognize and change our stance accordingly. >
  
  China’s only strategic opportunity is that the US has a smaller defense force than normal, and we’re split between these guys and Russia. No matter. We’ll be fine >
  
  I have read that ever since WW2 the USA has a military doctrine of being prepared to fight and win a two front war. But with Russia's military might being rendered local at best now, I have seen people claim the USA is shifting to a one front doctrine focused on the Indo-Pacific. >
  
  Seeing how Russia performs, Europe can probably take on Russia by themselves. >
  
  Ok good let them do it >
  
  I shit on USA a lot but I do like that were backing up Taiwan. Fuck ccp and I hope reddit stops going in that direction >
  
  
  whether the US will really go to the mat for Taiwan
  
  That's the beauty of it though.. I really don't believe they ever will need to go to the mat.
  The US has asserted directly that they will defend Taiwan.  While those assertions have the potential to change with new leaders, the US has been very committed since 1979.
  China may think it can take Taiwan (it'd be wrong, that kind of amphibious assault against modern weaponry would be flat out suicide at their technology level).. but they know they wouldn't ever beat the US, let alone all of it's allies (because you better believe the Japanese will have a vested interest, and I 100% believe Canada would join the fight too).
  It boils down to risk vs reward.  The risk is that China enters into a hot war with the US, Taiwan, and others, which in turn means China gets decimated militarily and economically.  The reward is nowhere near sufficient for such a risk.
  China will bitch and moan.  They'll rattle their sabers, they'll stomp their feet.  But they won't attack in the present political climate. >
  
  The problem though is that the person who decides whether or not China is going to invade Taiwan is not a military general. 
  It will be decided by a narcissistic authoritarian head of state who wants to create a "legacy." Like Putin is doing today.  Shit can go south real quick, and a lot of people do believe that before 2027 they will invade. >
  
  A lot of people think the earth is flat. >
  
  The earth being flat is a lot less likelier than China invading Taiwan. But now that Xi has absolute power over the CCP, the current plan is to wear down Taiwan's resolve to fight while waiting for Biden to be replaced by Trump in the next election. >
  
  Next on military development agenda longer and longer range air defence systems including the radar component for both low flight patterns as well as high 
  Target a Chinese/RF Jet from a couple 100's KMs avoiding chaff would be the non written RFP using combined system targetting >
  
  
  On a visit to Japan on Wednesday, Stoltenberg said China is increasingly investing in nuclear weapons and long-range missiles without providing transparency or engaging in arms control talks. Stoltenberg earlier criticized China for “bullying its neighbors and threatening Taiwan” and stressed the need for Japan and other democracies to work together with the alliance to defend the international order.
  “NATO needs to make sure we have friends,” he said, citing escalating Chinese attempts to coerce neighbors and threaten Taiwan. “It is important to work more closely with our partners in the Indo Pacific.”
  
  Mr Stoltenberg, you're right, but why not put your money where your mouth is and add a visit to Taiwan to the itinerary of your current tour. >
  
  China making threats it can never back up. It's military does have not have actual combat experience and not trained under realistic conditions. China is just trying to flex it's non-existent muscles. >
  
  Listen, I hate the ccp as much as everyone else here on reddit, but you're kind of propagandizing yourself on this. China's military is easily the second strongest in the world rivaled only by the USA and they absolutely are a major threat. Their modern destroyers are arguably at minimum equally matched to the american fleet, Their modern aircraft carriers have caught up with american operations. Their missiles and  and torpedos are all cutting edge. Their aircraft are almost at parody with the usa. The j20 isn't on par with the f22, its an inferior knockoff, but its still a 5th generation fighter using tech that no one besides the usa has. and they train just fine the same way everyone else does. People really need to stop deluding themselves into thinking 2023 china is the same thing as China even just 20 years ago. Their pace is rapid, and they should not be underestimated anymore. They'd lose an engagement with NATO, but it wouldn't be an easy war >
  
  
  Their modern aircraft carriers have caught up with american operations.
  
  Umm no they aren’t; the Fujian is the only one of their carriers you could call modern that they’ve got and it’s still undergoing sea trials. 
  
  and they train just fine the same way everyone else does
  
  That’s unlikely to say the least - the PLA has yet to be observed conducting combined arms war games with all 4 branches of service. >
  
  
  Umm no they aren’t; the Fujian is the only one of their carriers you could call modern that they’ve got 
  
  umm false. Shandong started its commission in 2019 , and Liaoning isn't in the same league as the gerald ford for example, but its still modern and operational. so no, its not "the only one you could call modern" 
  
  That’s unlikely to say the least 
  
  unlikely why? because you're so patriotic that there's just no way any other country in the world tests their military? like where does your assertion even come from? Our admirals aren't sitting around underestimating or doubting china's naval power for even a second, they're doing the opposite and urging the pentagon to pick up pace. the type 055 was a big wake up call for us. but hey, some dude on reddit knows every detail about china's military test operations and he's decided that its no big deal lol... and its "unlikely to say the least" 🙄 >
  
  Just because China commissioned a Kuznetzov clone with a ski jump in 2019 that doesn’t make it a modern ship any more than commissioning a Yamato clone makes battleships modern. 
  The Liaoning is not operational, it was launched last June and has yet to even receive its full compliment of naval aircraft or even be commissioned. 
  
  unlikely why? because you're so patriotic that there's just no way any other country in the world tests their military? like where does your assertion even come from?
  
  From the fact that they’ve literally not been observed to hold combined arms war games with their four branches of service. Even their live fire exercise around Taiwan included minimal involvement of their navy. >
  
  China would find it 100X more difficult than D day was for the allies. In D day the Germans were expecting an attack at a completely different place and they had to worry about the Soviets to the east. Taiwan has no such concerns and the only suitable beach heads are pretty easy to defend. China would be losing troops arguably much faster than Russia during Ukraine's counteroffensive. >
  
  Looks like the US will be sending Taiwan some tanks >
  
  It needs warships and planes. >
  
  20 aircraft is a pretty big incursion. 
  The biggest threat is the PRC attempting to the sort of slicing that Russia attempted in Ukraine. Invasion of some of the sparsely populated ROC-controlled islands close to the mainland could be promoted as a major propaganda coup while being less risky than an assault on Taiwan. >
  
  They should shoot one down, to see what happens. >
  
  I'm worried about Taiwan. >
  
  I am worried about the world. Sure seems like ww3 could break out. >
  
  So let it be written, so let it be done >
  
  Cry Bullies are all the same.
  (CCP are the cry bullies here, obviously) >
  
  Fuck China fuck commies. Better dead than red >
  
  What’s wrong with red huh >
  
  Are you... gloating about Japanese war crimes?? Wow >
  
  I would say Taiwan should have a few nuclear missiles.  Why!  China will be keep quite if they saw nuclear missile in front of their country.
  Same to ukrane.  Last time when ukraine own nuclear missiles, russian was keep quite. >
  
  Why doesn't Taiwan send a few cheap boats into Chinese waters? >
  
  Because lives ain't cheap... >
  
  Fuck China >
  
  Ominous >
  
  1960 Kfirs.😳 >
  
  Shut up Kim and go fix my Turkey pot pie >
  
  China wants to burn the cycle rate of their jets in a peacetime show of force for propaganda purposes and to try to goad Taiwan into drawing first blood and I’m fine with that. >
  
  Whatever gets the top secret document story to disappear and a war with China would do just that for all past political figures involved… >
  
  only one political figure is in actual trouble for that though, both Biden and Pence returned the files the second they were found, Trump did not. >
  
  Looks like China will fuck Taiwan up. >
  
  I feel bad for you. Being a troll is rather simple, but somehow you’ve managed to be completely incompetent at it. Congrats. >
  
  If everything Deng, Jiang, and Hu built goes up in flames… >
  
  Take Taiwan, they gain almost nothing from doing so,  not that it should ever be allowed but theres almost nothing to be gained by taking it thats not already being undercut by other govts. 
  Many countries are building the infrastructure to create their own chips. China wont gain much of anything by taking a small island off their coast, except the hate of the people there and harming their international relations further. >
  
  This is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 87%. (I'm a bot)
  
  
  TAIPEI, Taiwan - Taiwan scrambled fighter jets, put its navy on alert and activated missile systems in response to nearby operations by 34 Chinese military aircraft and nine warships that are part Beijing's strategy to unsettle and intimidate the self-governing island democracy.
  ADVERTISEMENT. China has sent warships, bombers, fighter jets and support aircraft into airspace near Taiwan on a near-daily basis, hoping to wear down the island's limited defense resources and undercut support for pro-independence President Tsai Ing-wen.
  Chinese fighter jets have also confronted military aircraft from the U.S. and allied nations over international airspace in the South China and East China seas, in what Beijing has described as dangerous and threatening maneuvers.
  
  
  Extended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Taiwan^#1 China^#2 military^#3 U.S.^#4 Chinese^#5 >
  
  
  “China is always a force for regional and global peace and stability,” ministry spokesperson Mao Ning said at a regular briefing.
  
  The vast majority of China's neighbors would attest otherwise. >
  
  Yeah, Vietnam would HEAVILY disagree… >
  
  Publicly, they can’t be too antagonistic with China, but the South China Sea dispute and Vietnam’s growing ties to America seem to suggest a different view…. >
  
  Anti-Vietnam Propaganda?
  I thought that this was about the militarized islands that China keeps on building in Vietnamese territorial waters and Vietnam dredging in a bid to keep their own military presence in their own territorial waters strong enough to deter Chinese aggression in the region. I mean, China's doing that to FIVE DIFFERENT NATIONS to the point where various countries are trying to rename the South China Sea to things like the "West Philippine Sea" or the "Natuna Sea" to rhetorically bolster their claims while they are, also turning rocks and reefs into fortified bunkers against repeated and aggressive Chinese incursion. >
  
  Taiwan having a claim to something is largely irrelevant, they aren't the ones building air strips and missile bases in the area and demanding that others stay out. Besides, I wasn't just talking about the Spratlys. I was talking about the Scarborough Shoals, the Parcels, and the utterly nonsensical fight the CCP is picking with Indonesia.
  Ideally, all of this would have been solved if China would simply accept the judgement of an independent arbitration and the proper application of the United Nations Law of the Sea (a treaty that China is a signatory to) or if they didn't torpedo the ASAEN treaty negotiation that was intended to hash out all these territorial disputes when it became clear that literally no one (with the possible exception of Taiwan) takes the 9 Dash Line seriously. >
  
  Doesn’t Taiwan literally have a military installation on one of these islands >
  
  Coast guard stations may or may not be military. There's a dock, an air strip, and a couple of support buildings. It hasn't been operated by the Taiwanese marines since 2000. Coast Guard does more in the way of customs enforcement and rescue than fighting of other nations.
  Though the 2016 arbitration agreement means that they should probably abandon its claim to the island. The US does not recognize Taiwan's claim to the island, and still use the pre-1946 name and nationality markers for it in all official documents. >
  
  So same same, different... but still same >
  
  China making threats it can never back up. >
  
  And yet every 5 minute EU/Washington/Japan is busy "warning the world" that a invasion is imminent. 
  It is almost like schrodinger's China. Either posing a threat to world stability or a paper tiger meowing in the corner. >
  
  It's all the armchair generals on reddit that keep saying paper tiger,  whereas real generals regard them as legitimate. >
  
  There are so many soldiers in their army. Zerg rush. >
  
  My life for Aiur. >
  
  Unlike Ukraine, Taiwan has been preparing defense and helped by the US for decades.
  It'll be very expensive for China to take Taiwan if not impossible with the US fighting with them.
  Fuck Xi the Pooh! >
  
  China would need to cross the strait with about a million troops.  
  They have naval landing craft sufficient to move 30 thousand.
  China is bluffing. >
  
  Their plan is, allegedly, to use the landing craft to establish a beach head and then reinforce using civilian craft. >
  
  There are limited beaches that are easily defendable.  With nearby mountains to put fortified artillery in.
  It would be far more difficult than d day in ww2. >
  
  Yep.
  Their plan, allegedly, is to rapidly eliminate Taiwan’s air defense so paratroopers and aircraft can enable the landings. Even then, they still seem to be facing long odds on a landing. >
  
  Lol remember when Putin tried to do that exact same thing? Drop in some elite paratrooper commandos during the first day in a blitz to eliminate Big Z and the Ukrainian government. Didnt work out great.
  And doesn't Taiwan have all of our current gen, cutting-edge military hardware ready and waiting? Sounds like a fools errand. I also think it's foolish that they think it would go anything like Ukraine, in that the US would only engage in a proxy war by sending supplies and weapons. PRETTY sure that it would result in the US declaring all out war. Hopefully they aren't this fucking dumb >
  
  I don't think all out war is really possible between 2 nuclear powers. Has it ever happened? >
  
  It will happen eventually. The future is grim. >
  
  It's fine. There's enough nukes to knock out humanity but not life on earth. Eventually something from earth will gain enough intelligence to colonize outside our planet. >
  
  Future species will adapt to an irradiated earth. We won’t be part of that future though. >
  
  Fuck the CCP! >
  
  No one's fucking China in this thread? That's progress. Plenty of people here are still trying to justify China = CCP >
  
  
  Plenty of people here are still trying to justify China = CCP
  
  Anyone who's been on Reddit knows that Redditors hate the Chinese people as much as they hate the Chinese government. Just go into any thread about random a Chinese person doing something random and it's all hate comments and various comments about the government. >
  
  Fuck the CCP, and anybody who supports it willingly >
  
  So why are you on reddit, a CCP-funded company? I'll wait for you to delete your reddit account. >
  
  You >
  
  "My argument is so shitty I have to sugarcoat it with colorful pictures."
  You >
  
  Well your argument seems to be "your opinion criticizing [thing] is invalid unless you have sworn an oath to never interact with [thing] or anything else connected to [thing] in any way whatsoever."
  This is an utterly absurd, asinine argument if you spend more than 2 seconds thinking about it. The interconnected nature of modern society makes it practically impossible to swear off all interaction for any [thing], meaning if your argument were taken to it's logical conclusion, nobody would have any standing to say any [thing] should be improved. Yet the argument has been so overused by people who think they're clever and/or are not arguing in good faith, that someone made a comic with pretty pictures to help "clever" people like you realize how comically absurd their argument is. >
  
  Reddit is by no means a necessity. You can dump it any second. It's too funny to watch people bash an entity while contributing to it at the same time. The hypocrisy here is just too strong and funny. >
  
  I'm guessing China is just trying to goad Taiwan in taking the first shot so that China can retaliate and have an excuse to invade Taiwan. >
  
  Not a penny should go to funding mainland China’s war path from our pockets. Manufacturing is leaving the country and continue to do so. Capital and investment should follow as with our consumption of Made in China. 
  Mainland China depicts most of the world as an enemy. We must recognize and change our stance accordingly. >
  
  China’s only strategic opportunity is that the US has a smaller defense force than normal, and we’re split between these guys and Russia. No matter. We’ll be fine >
  
  I have read that ever since WW2 the USA has a military doctrine of being prepared to fight and win a two front war. But with Russia's military might being rendered local at best now, I have seen people claim the USA is shifting to a one front doctrine focused on the Indo-Pacific. >
  
  Seeing how Russia performs, Europe can probably take on Russia by themselves.