comment: >
  
  Sweden: bans burning of Koran
  Turkey: approves NATO application
  *1 month later*
  Sweden: lifts the ban on burning the Koran and establishes the national holiday of drawing Erdogan caricatures
context: Title is misleading. Turkey still hasn't approved either country, they just stated that they might. >
  
  It is just more lies fron Turkey. If Finland somehow agreed with Turkey it is almost certain Turkey would again betray their world. Nothing Turkey says or promises can be trusted. >
  
  They haven't approved anyone because they need time for their paid actor to get to Finland to burn another book. Lol >
  
  Nah, say what you will about Paludan but he’s not in Turkey’s pocket, he’s been burning qurans for like more than a year now; it’s all he knows how to do to get attention >
  
  He’s been doing it for almost 5 years. He started in Denmark and failed in his endeavours, so he moved to Sweden >
  
  Wait thats who they’re complaining about lol? The guys just a youtube troll, he couldnt even get enough racists on board to form a party here what chance does he have anywhere else lmao >
  
  Same guy who’s car got rolled by someone chasing him after they saw him doing this? >
  
  Wait till they hear about what you're allowed to burn in the USA >
  
  Turkey? >
  
  It’s not my fault that the new air fryer had confusing directions >
  
  At least with the air fryer, there’s less Greece. >
  
  This is making me Hungary… >
  
  Kenya believe I already ate?... Iran straight to the fridge >
  
  That's a Chad move, did you eat some Chile? >
  
  Norway you had Chile with Turkey! >
  
  Uganda never believe it, but I did.  I even double Czeched. >
  
  You Finish it too? I do not Bolivia. >
  
  Like it was a state-sanctioned Quran-burning. >
  
  Theocrats, don’t understand, nor care for the distinction >
  
  Let’s be honest, Erdogan doesn’t give a shit about burning the Quran, he was just waiting for an excuse to say no. >
  
  He didn’t need an excuse. He could have said no for any reason. 
  Erdo wants to look strong and have Swedish Kurds extradited for execution and if he cannot get them he won’t say yes >
  
  No, he needs to look like strong for the elections. He doesn't care about PKK or Kurds or Sweden. They made Ocalan's brother appear on state TV to read a letter of Ocalan's support for the Erdogan government, in the last election. As long as it serves him, anything is possible. >
  
  This. Exactely this and this alone. I believe quite a few other NATO members have growned tired of his bullshit. >
  
  I'm pretty sure we'll start hearing about Greek F-35s soon now >
  
  All 2 that the greeks can afford >
  
  We trade them western jets for grandma's best spanakopita recipe and call it even. >
  
  In which NATO states is buring a book of worship like the Koran or the Bible illegal? >
  
  I think Finland in fact doesn't allow burning religious symbols publicly.
  Not something that's much enforced here nor do I know the specifics of the law but I do know it's not really allowed. >
  
  It's funny how a completely non-violent act of burning your own property is forbidden as a "violation of peace", isn't it? Because obviously the problem is not with people meddling in others' business, threatening violence if their arbitrary rules aren't followed by everyone, the threat to peace is people not following rules made up by a group of terrorists.
  Next, let's punish women for their provocative clothing, lest they be responsible for being raped! Victim blaming at its finest ... >
  
  
  It's funny how a completely non-violent act of burning your own property is forbidden
  
  I can almost guarantee it is illegal to burn down your own house. >
  
  That’s because of the risk that it will spread, the use of public funds required to put it out, the risk to the lives of everyone around it, the release of toxic gasses into the atmosphere from burning construction materials, etc. 
  It’s not really comparable at all. >
  
  If people were to burn bibles, flags, etc IN PRIVATE it wouldn't matter.
  Doing it in public is a statement. >
  
  Some  danish guy burns a koran in sweden, and Erdogan uses it as an excuse. >
  
  Yet, somehow, he's not vouching for our (I'm danish) expulsion?
  ​
  Also, the fuckwit who burned it is a known sensationalist. Police tend to follow whereever he goes because he pulls shit like that.
  iirs, he's even got a disability due to a head injury. 
  ​
  Are we really going to grasp for that straw, Turkey? >
  
  
  Also, the fuckwit who burned it is a known sensationalist
  
  Imagine being such a nobody fuckwit that your fuckery shapes North Atlantic politics. >
  
  Are we talking about the danish guy in Sweden or Erdogan? Because that statement works on both of them. >
  
  Paludan got deported from Sweden to Denmark but he went through the process to get a Swedish citizenship to circumvent it. (one of his parents are Swedish). >
  
  As long as Finland is part of NATO, Sweden may aswell be an island. Completely defensible from any Russian attack. >
  
  Not that easy. An invasion of the actual island of Gotland would make a lot of strategic sense to Russia. >
  
  Russia can't even defend an island against a country without a navy. >
  
  
  
  Snake Island is a tiny 0.17 square km barren rock in the ocean with a couple buildings on it. 
  
  
  Gotland is a 3000+ square kilometer island with archipelagoes, forests, fields and hills, that makes up close to 1% of Sweden's total land area. 
  
  
  These are not equal. It would be an absolute nightmare if Russia actually landed and would commit to defending Gotland. >
  
  It's still 250km to Gotland from the closest possible staging point, Kalinigrad. A solid 600km if they come from the St. Petersburg region. 
  A Russian invasion fleet would have to travel at least 250km in the NATO pond. 
  It would quickly be nicknamed "The Great Baltic Turkey Shoot" >
  
  The first meter the would sail on swedish water our submarines would eat them for lunch. Even nato has issues finding those. They could goddam park inside a russian ship undetected. >
  
  So, in other words, Turkey would reject an alliance with the majority of its current allies. >
  
  I mean, Erdogan would get a hard on if it be called "The Islamic State of Turkey", did you expect anything reasonable from such a country? >
  
  I don't believe for one second that he is religious. It's 100% just a tool he utilizes for control and convenient political excuses. Oh wait. So I guess he is religious. >
  
  What in the flying fuck does burning the Koran have to do with NATO? 
  Erdogan's demands have become absolutely absurd and they have absolutely nothing to do with NATO anymore. >
  
  this is what you get when you require 100% unanimous agreement from all members to do something >
  
  Considering the countries in NATO have to 100% go to war each other, it's not unreasonable. I think a better angle should be to kick turkey out. What do they even bring to the table? >
  
  Strategic control over some important territory and staging points for NATO to put pressure on some bad actors.
  Regrettably. >
  
  I want to remind everyone that turkey isn't the problem, its Erdogan. Turkey itself is a nice, well developed country. Just ruled by a bunch of criminals. >
  
  Wait till he finds out that it’s legal to do in many countries that are original NATO members… >
  
  He knows. He's just talking to. the local Turkish people. >
  
  I am pretty sure 4th point would be enough to kick out turkey if these actually were enforced >
  
  Turkey actually fails on all 5.
  1 Opposition is jailed, critical media are not allowed and offending the president is a very grave crime
  2 The president's son in law was appointed as minister of finance, they have insane inflation and are refusing to have a healthy interest interest policy
  3 The military are under strict control of the AK party
  4 Greece, Azerbaijan, Georgia, Cyprus, Iraq and Syria disagree. Basically all their neighbours except Russia.
  5 Turkey buys Russian weapons and defense systems over NATO partner's equipment >
  
  Seems like NATO should have a mechanism to contend with rogue members.
  No one knows what the future holds and in a democracy, the theocrats can win. >
  
  The idea of having no way to remove a member is so that you can’t kick a member out to feed them to the wolves as it were. Nations sign up knowing that if they were threatened, NATO would be compelled to act.
  There is a suspension of membership which is taking you out of unified command but you are still given the meat basic benefits and still have obligations. I’m not sure if it affects your right to vote on new members however. >
  
  Turkey is looking for every reason to be offended, not for the love of Islam, not for the sanctity of NATO, but for their dictators own interests. >
  
  But surely they have to know how gullible this makes them look - Russia completely manipulated them, with this stunt. Does the average Turk not see how this is playing out? Maybe they need to vote in a more competent government. >
  
  average turk doesn't give a fuck about who may have funded the stunt. average turk is also anti-west / anti-american / anti-imperialist. whenever erdo does something to cause west to at least roll their eyes, average turk will consider reelecting this clown. >
  
  I'd like an explanation of what a burnt koran has to do with the defense pact Nato. I hope the rest of Nato is watching their defense partner refusing to accept a western democracy into the pact if they don't introduce islamic blasphemy laws. This is your guy.
  I want my country, Sweden, to join Nato. But if this is what we need to do then fuck it. I guess when time comes then Russia will just take us, but up until then we'll have freedom of speech. >
  
  I firmly hope that, at the very least, every NATO country but Turkey will just happen to coincidentally sign a bilateral defense pact with Sweden that doesn’t require you to spend time rounding up everyone who hurts Erdogan’s fragile feelings. >
  
  Granted I'm not an expert on the subject, but the Baltic Sea is very important strategically, not just for amphibian control but also because a lot of critical telecom runs along the bottom, its why Sweden was/is a key player in PRISM and the surveillance scandal with Snowden
  Nato's been creaming their pants over getting bases on Gotland since its inception, I have a hard time seeing the Big Boys allowing that to fall into Russian territory any which way it goes.
  And this makes the infantile part of me wish Sweden to simply withdraw the application, cause fuck Erdogan we'll be protected anyhow. >
  
  Withdrawing the application would just reduce the pressure on Turkey to ratify it. >
  
  He's gonna look really weak when they do finally join and the burnings are still legal. No way they're changing that. >
  
  it will be after the elections.....doesn't matter. >
  
  Is he officialy recognising that Turkey is not secular anymore ? >
  
  uh he's been doing that for years >
  
  If what I read i accurate, this comes from the same Turkey that burned 300 000 books in 2019 linked to what is referred to as a muslim clerk and .....1.8 million textbooks in 2016 for containing the word "Pennsylvania". (This relates to the 2016 Turkish coup d'état attempt.)
  link
  They dislike that we have freedom. Or possibly that anyone has freedom.
  The act we are talking about was done by a leader for a Danish small right wing political party that has less than 500 likes on their Swedish facebook page.While carrying a cap to advertise said party.
  The same guy that has previously stated in court that he has a 25% brain damage due to injuries sustained in a traffic accident while riding his bicycle.
  It's technically legal, but so is bringing home a wild  badger and keep it as a pet in Sweden. That does not make it a good idea.
  Yes it's bad to provoke and upset others, religious or not, but the reaction now has very little to do with anything other than taking the chance to earn cheap political points.
  So In one way they are doing the same thing here. Both are trying to boost their political careers. >
  
  I thought it was because of Kurdish terrorists? >
  
  It was , but he found a new toy to play with , it also makes him look more like the " defender of the islamic faith " which would help him in the elections or something to that extent. >
  
  As Putin wants to reestabilish the Russian empire, Erodagan wants to reestablish the Ottoman empire. >
  
  Again, nobody should be paying to Turkey until the election season is done.
  Until then Erdogan will be doing everything he can to pretend what was previously the most secular state in the Middle East is now the Islamic State of Türkiye. >
  
  I’m afraid my view of freedom of expression (extremely pro) probably clouds my judgement of his unwillingness to change his country’s stance. He’s also got some in his population that would literally start a war over that sort of thing >
  
  And he is pandering to them as there is an election due in June. He's not doing brilliantly in the polls so he is desperate to keep the islamist vote. This is all for show.
  If he wins, he will possibly (reluctantly)concede that Sweden should be allowed into NATO. If he loses, the other guy will probably not veto. >
  
  Turkey missing the whole concept of being a liberal democracy (which you are supposed to be as a member of NATO). >
  
  Getting kind of tired of religions getting in the way of progress. >
  
  Urgh, if only Turkey was founded with a constitution that defines it as a secular state >
  
  Erdogan has been slowly undoing all the work that Ataturk did to make Turkey the most civilised majoity Muslim country in the world. >
  
  Just ask them if they have accepted the Armenian genocide yet >
  
  Is bible burning legal in Turkey ? >
  
  Nope. As "Christianity" is a religion accepted by Turkey(only big three Abrahamic ones are accepted), it's against TCK 216, which is not a blasphemy law but more of a hate speech one:
  
  TCK m.216 is written as follows: ARTICLE 216- (1) A person who openly incites a segment of the public with different characteristics in terms of social class, race, religion, sect or region to hatred and enmity against another segment, in case of a clear and imminent danger in terms of public security, for this reason, punishable with imprisonment from one to three years.  
  (2) Anyone who publicly humiliates a part of the population on the basis of social class, race, religion, sect, gender or regional differences is sentenced to imprisonment from six months to one year.  
  (3) A person who publicly insults the religious values adopted by a section of the public is sentenced to imprisonment from six months to one year, if the act is suitable for disturbing the public peace. >
  
  So 1 guy. 1 frigging guy was able to stop 1 country from joining NATO? Did I get this right? >
  
  Nah, that's just the current flavor of the week/month Erdogone excuse. Next week or month it would be a different excuse. >
  
  I think you’ll find that support for our constitutionally guaranteed freedoms is a lot higher than support for joining NATO ever was, Erdogaggle. >
  
  Never mind the fact the Koran burning was a Russian backed stunt and Turkey is aware of this. >
  
  Fuck the "quran".  Religion is a fairly tale. >
  
  Can we just remove turkey instead, they don't care about any western values anyway.
  Edit: Their lack of acknowledgment about the Armenian genocide doesn't help their case. >
  
  What a fucking joke. You can burn a Quran in any fucking western country. >
  
  Fuck all religions and their sacred texts it’s all bullshit people >
  
  its crazy to me that turkey in its modern iteration is even part of NATO. erdogan being mad about a book being burnt when his country supplies arms and supports terrorist groups as well as generally running a pretty awful country by most first world standards is wild to me. 
  i remember when his bodyguards beat down american citizens (protestors) in the streets when he visited washington DC, legit dogpiling people and stomping on them when they were already down and kicking them in the head and such. unprovoked brutality when visiting another country. 
  i can only imagine what happens if you try to protest or say something in turkey xd your family probably gets spontaneously disappeared. >
  
  Turkey and Hungary — two states that definitely don’t deserve the place they are in right now >
  
  “Vlad, that’s what you wanted me to say right?”
  It’s widely known to be a Russian op but he’s still playing along. Wanna be dictators gonna dictate >
  
  Bulshit excuse.
  How do you "prevent" the burning of the Koran? One person be it a, Swedish radical or a russian agent, goes into a public  square to protest, with a Koran previously doused with gasoline in his pocket. Takes it out and put a light to it. Thats stoppable... how?
  Bingo! And then a country can't join NATO. 
  Again, what bullshit is this? The US and Euroope should cancel any sale of weapons, put on hold any collaboration with this shitty state until they cease being cunts... >
  
  That's the current excuse. If Sweden makes Koran burnings illegal, will he go back to the demands of deporting "terrorists" to them or will he find a new reason to block the membership? I wonder..
  Edit: I mean which one of them. Of course he won't let Sweden in. >
  
  Turkey are a bunch of moaning cunts