comment: >
  
  For the moment, the west coast and north east remain relatively safe
context: The problem is the main people who would need to get out the most are also the people who are least likely to have the means to do so. >
  
  If I manage to get out because of my priveleged circumstances (job with international locations), you’d best believe I will turn right around and do everything in my power to help other people escape. I will find an organization, or I will fucking found one myself. I don’t know about the rest of the world but I won’t forget that I’m lucky to even have the option and I’ll use my privelege to help others. >
  
  Shouldn't be leaving. People are willing to just give up their homes and not fight is a huge issue. Thats what they want. You want freedom? The price is your life. No one every got anything by running away. 
  Conceding the country to fascists will have global implications we have never witnessed before. You thought the Nazis were bad. Holy shit if the Nazis had the military that the US has now they would have taken over the world >
  
  It'd help if people would take heed our cries of danger and attempts to organize instead of just calling us "dramatic" and ignoring the encroaching forces because they aren't directly influenced by these actions. I have tried for years attempting to call alarm to this stuff in my personal life and all it seems to have done is distance me from people who just want to ignore politics where they can and live their lives.  
  It's exhausting and demoralizing when the best efforts you can muster is a single person picket that people call you "crazy" for doing and trying to warn others that there's fascists trying to do fascist shit in this country. >
  
  This, exactly this. No one will fight for us. If I stand and fight, I will quickly die and everyone will say “oh how sad, well, onto our next story” and no one will want to discuss it because they “don’t like talking about politics.” I’m tired of asking the american people to step in. They won’t. We’re considered acceptable casualties and I won’t walk willingly into that fate. >
  
  Martyrdom isn't noble. Survive and tell your tale. Do what you must, all of you. I left and will help catch those who come after. I fear for my friends and family, especially those who are traditional targets, but now there is soft landing for them if they need to leave. This creates opportunity for others to escape last minute. You cannot build a better life for people and be a force for positive change if you are dead or otherwise hampered. 
  Right wing power structures are inflexible and do not last, they will eat their own eventually. Do not become a casualty. Nothing is learned when no voices are left to tell their stories. The left is too fragmented. There needs to be consolidation first for there to be a fight. Most of us aren't built to be revolutionaries, and that's ok. Violence is unnatural to us. Those that aren't fighters need to help those in need. >
  
  
  Martyrdom isn't noble
  
  Martyrdom is actually another means of psychological torture that authoritarians employ, similar to sin. 
  The whole purpose of glorifying it is twofold: Get rid of opponents that do not fight(the martyrs) and cause guilt  to the ones that survived , because they were not "selfless enough" to sacrifice and thus lesser than the martyrs.
  
  Right wing power structures are inflexible and do not last, they will eat their own eventually
  
  Which usually happens either by war because they turn outwards, or by regime ending revolution when oppression reaches boiling point. Both events are actually pretty nasty and it's better to avoid them if you can. >
  
  Yes, I'm a revisionist at heart, however, the bare minimum for balance has left the scale too long ago. This is not the first time that this has historically happened to a country and the left is less organised than it was a century ago. We're heading towards strange times, compounded by climate issues. Archeologically speaking, as it's my job, this means warfare and mass migration is imminent. >
  
  Thing is, what country is hankering for refugees from the Alabama of the world? >
  
  In fairness, as someone who lives in MA, my state is closer to Scandinavian countries in terms of education and job opportunities, safety, access to good healthcare etc.. it's more likely that a liberal from Alabama moves to MA than something like Finland or Sweden >
  
  This why there is going to be an inherent fracture of blue and red states. Not saying civil war, just some sort of fracture in power is coming.
  Blue states on the whole are better off financially, socially, and they will be damned to let the shitbag red states dicate to us.
  The repeal of Roe, for example, and the attempt by red states to chase down people who seek safe care in blue states is reminiscent of the fugitive slave act all over again. 
  Also, for those who are all about leaving the US we're too big, too powerful, to not have an effect wherever you would go if the crazies take over. The key is to strengthen our blue states against the tide and be ready to hold onto the ideals of the republic. >
  
  I've been a big fan of blue states cutting federal funding and diverting fed taxes to the state level if we continue down this path. 
  Break them fiscally. >
  
  This would of course be the ”small government” that is apparently the ideal. >
  
  Small government for me but not for thee. >
  
  Each state getting what they pay in sounds like a great idea. Blue state tax and blue state gain. I would carve out a interstate road system funding. We need that for national commerce. We don't want good truckers getting stuck in the south side of Chicago, LA, Detroit, and Portland. Need to be able to cruise right on by those places. California's moving trucks still need a path to Austin Texas as well. >
  
  As a Black American, we’ve already seen how bad things can get. Backlash to Reconstruction led ultimately to the Jim Crow era’s disenfranchisement, segregation, lynchings, coups, mass internal migration, ethnic cleansing, and more. It’s the stuff they don’t want taught in schools. 
  Black History is often seen as a stand-alone topic but it’s highly useful in explaining a lot of America’s political history and trajectory. >
  
  And not just for Black Americans; all POCs history has been readily removed as to not offend (some) Caucasian's delicate sensibilities. >
  
  Not all caucasians, just saying >
  
  Hah fixed that. ✌ >
  
  “Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched… Hey, where you going?” >
  
  I remember watching an episode of the Handmaids Tale a while back where one of the characters, who is a lesbian and works at a university, gets outed by one of her students, has a gay coworker who is hung from a balcony, and ends up trying to flee to Canada with her wife and child, but gets stopped because they don’t legally recognize her as the child’s parent because her wife was the one who carried the child.  
  That episode is starting to look a lot less like fiction. >
  
  The whole damn series is on the brink of becoming our reality. >
  
  I said this when the SCOTUS went red and got downvoted, so I’m glad that people are finally realizing this. >
  
  Don’t take the down votes seriously. The roving bands of r/qonservative vigilantes can strike anywhere, anytime. >
  
  Haha, yeah I don’t, just happy people realize that it being a reality isn’t too far fetched at this point >
  
  It's probably worth trying first to move to a blue state and see how that goes for now. It'd be cheaper and easier than moving overseas, and you should be fine through 2024. Then we'll have to see what happens that year. Moving abroad is quite expensive after all. >
  
  I know 4 people now who are leaving the US to go to Europe. The violence is the last straw but the cost of a university education, healthcare and the minimum wage were already pushing them.
  If you're in high school now, learn a European language and get a great education without putting yourself into indentured servitude. Germany is probably your best bet. >
  
  If the minimum wage was a problem for them how are they moving to Europe? It is a very expensive process. >
  
  Poor people manage to move to different countries all the time — America and Europe currently have huge amounts of folks coming in, often with very little money. It is difficult, of course, but it is possible, and the incentives are high.
  Most places in Germany have a lower cost of living than major cities in the US. Finding a job can be difficult, of course, depending on what you're doing, but it is possible. The visa itself costs $100 (a company may cover this cost), and the flight from the US can be as low as $400. Many apartments come furnished, and a lot of furniture can be found for free. I saved loads on rent by moving, personally.
  Obviously there are many other costs, but I have friends that were below the poverty line in the US that managed to move to Germany, and the quality of life at minimum wage is way higher in Germany than in the US, where you can barely get by.
  Edit: I'm curious why this is being downvoted. This is all first-hand information, y'all. If anyone needs help immigrating to Germany, don't hesitate to PM. Just went through it all last year. It is a super long and annoying process, but it is not necessarily expensive. >
  
  Highly qualified foreigners or Intra-corporate transferees. These are the requirements I found for Germany. There also needs to be a job offer already in place. How would someone making minimum wage qualify? >
  
  This is just incomplete information. These are the easiest ways to get into the country by far, but there are other paths. A freelance work visa isn't terribly difficult to get if you have contacts in the country (and you can make these contacts during a 3-month tourist visa stay, available automatically to all Americans).
  Several of my friends were able to have their visa sponsored by a minimum-wage coffee-shop job. You can also get a job-seeking visa, an educational visa, a language-learning visa. These all allow you more time than a 3-month tourist visa, and while you are not legally allowed to work during that time, it buys you time while you find someone to sponsor the visa.
  Obviously being poor doesn't look great on a visa application. I'm not at all saying moving to Germany is easy. I wouldn't recommend it to anyone working a minimum wage job in America, because it is a risky move and a lot of work. But if you really want it, there are options.
  I just went through the whole visa process, and several of my friends here did as well, over the last few years. I can guarantee that you don't need to be highly qualified or an intra-corporate transferee. I'm curious where you found this information. >
  
  That was the requirements for an employment visa, not a long-stay visa. >
  
  Yes, for this visa, that makes sense. But there are several ways to get into Germany and work. >
  
  What country do these people think they can move to that isn't facing the exact same threat, or worse, of the rise of far right extremism?
  This is a global issue, not an exclusively American one.
  Canada has a rising far right extremism
  The UK, Germany, France, Italy, etc. Etc. All have rising factions of right wing extremism.
  Israel has its most right wing government in history.
  Where do these people expect to flee? >
  
  I think my wife and I have discussed New Zealand or Finland. Both aren't perfect, but no country is. >
  
  Terrorizing minorities is by design and part of a larger plan.  What the GQP wants is for red states to be as inhospitable as possible to the political left. 
  You know, like ISIS.  Seriously. 
  Jihadists are not looking to topple the west with a car bomb.  Their goal, in part, is to foment an anti-Muslim sentiment because they don’t want Muslim diaspora, they want Muslims as far away from Western culture as humanly possible.  They want their people to be as concentrated as possible so as to exert maximum political and social pressure. 
  They want their brothers to come home.
  For decades, the political right has done everything it can to make their numbers count more because they realize their party ceases to exist otherwise.  The conservative demographic is dying, quite literally.  Each new generation becomes less and less interested in their backwards asses but they’ve got a pretty big range of tricks to tip the scales away from democracy. 
  Gerrymandering. Redistricting. Closing voting locations. Cutting off the USPS at the knees to slow mail voting.  VoterID.  These are the first volleys in an assault on democracy. 
  What’s plan B if all the skullfuckery doesn’t result in a GQP caliphate?
  Concentrate forces geographically.  It’s better to hold all of the power in half the country than it is to hold no power across the nation.  Concentration of forces itself is a force multiplier.  In the case of the GQP, it also results in more groupthink because the differing views were running out of town.
  It may seem backwards for a party to seemingly go out of its way to alienate the moderates and enrage its opponents.  The political right’s plan for the next 20 years might be hidden in plain sight.
  
  If conservatives become convinced that they cannot win democratically, they will not abandon conservatism. They will reject democracy.
  
  
  David Frum >
  
  This is the outcome they want >
  
  Had a friend move his family from TX to CO. There daughter is trans and the language and implications of staying in TX is too harsh. >
  
  I don't think it's dawned on us that trans people and their families fleeing Texas are, by no stretch of the imagination, refugees escaping politically-motivated persecution and oppression. >
  
  They could probably sue and win. >
  
  Sorry to say that Canada, like every country in the “free world” has its fair share of the far right. Trump’s election empowered them. Now they are unafraid to shout their hate at every opportunity. Stand up to them…they’re bullies…if you run…they win. >
  
  If we were in that kind of danger where Americans were fleeing the country because of right-wing policies, we’d have two major problems: 1) other western countries likely have or are headed in the same direction. What you’re not liking here is the same thing you’re not going to like somewhere else after spending a lot of time and money getting there. 2) the people who would be in most danger by staying here are least likely to be granted residency in any other country. Most of the gay or black or disabled Americans I know who would be direct targets if a right-wing force took over have no ability to ‘just leave’. Many barely survived high school & wouldn’t qualify for any high-level degree status places like Canada are looking for. If you’re not rich or don’t have a doctorate or are over 45, forget it. The people who would probably be fine no matter what happens because they’re so rich would be the first ones out of here. >
  
  I'm black and I wouldn't go to Europe to expatriate, I would more likely to go to and African country which has its own set of issues but then I would be from a position of being an American and I wouldn't go to a poor country broke with no skills to earn money >
  
  It's a "brain drain" too. People leaving are usually younger, more educated,  mire tolerant, more intelligent... Soon all that's left will be anti-science, hateful, bigoted morons. >
  
  People in the US have been so saturated by patriotic messaging from infancy that even the "rebels" don't quite get the extent to which American media fishbowl saturation is so thorough and pervasive.  The messaging even convinces minorities that somehow it's a huge and risky downgrade to move to a country where half the government isn't actively working to destroy  you.
  But the US - along with Hungary & Brazil - is one of the only countries on Earth where progress has backslid over the past decade.   And it ranks behind several developed countries in quality of life measurements:
  
  Human Development Index   17th out of 189GDP 
  (PPP) per capita  9th out of 183GDP 
  (nominal) per capita  8th out of 183
  Where-to-be-born Index    13th out of 71
  Human Poverty Index   17th out of 19
  
  Or people crowing "we're the freest country in the world!" when America ranks 14th in global freedom index.
  None of that is bad taken in isolation, but it's like one of those companies that sell an ordinary product but spend a ton of money on advertising their brand identity as better than everyone else's.  America is the Monster Cable of developed countries. >
  
  Yup. I might be one of them. I'm waiting to see how this election goes before making a decision. Life is just too short to be voluntarily living with idiots. >
  
  Especially ones who hate your skin. >
  
  Or my children.
  That's what's led me and the wife to start looking.  (At another state.  We're not leaving the country.) >
  
  I don't socialize in my hick region. I'm hoping to get enough money together to move elsewhere soon.  Hopefully, the election will keep me around longer. I'll stay as long as I think the nation is worth saving and able to be saved. I'm also single, so it helps that I have no one that I'm really responsible for. My mom's white, but she's even considering a gun because the evil will attack anyone who sympathizes with something they don't like. >
  
  I'm a white, cisgender heterosexual male with blonde hair, blue eyes and Germanic ancestry. I am the sort of person white supremacists talk about with their 14 words. Yet even I have an evacuation plan in mind when all those other characteristics about myself no longer matter, and me being autistic, progressive and atheistic is what matters.
  Because that's what happens when an ideology is so prominently built on an "Us vs. Them" mentality: eventually some of those Us' have to become Them's... >
  
  I think you make a good point, but I also want to say that if you feel like being blonde and blue-eyed is what keeps you safe currently, the country is pretty fucked. Not saying you should evacuate now, just that the situation is bad. >
  
  I 1000% agree with you that the county is pretty fucked. I recently joined the Satanic Temple as I fully expect the "freedom of religion doesn't mean freedom from religion" crowd to eventually get around to limiting my rights without some form of religious membership. >
  
  I’m a white male and I’m scared as fuck. Just because I like to read. >
  
  What are you reading for? >
  
  Well, looks like we got ourselves a reada! >
  
  Please stay, organize, and vote. >
  
  There comes a point when voting isn’t enough. I love Nashville, I wanted to spend my entire life there, but with a Republican supermajority at the state level they’re free to take blue strongholds and break them up and gerrymander them so that they turn red. >
  
  The last thing any of us should do, is leave, like it or not, with the financial and military power the US has, something each of us should be held responsible or complicit into, letting this country be owned by a bunch of fascists means there's nowhere in the world that would be safe to live free in.. >
  
  Right wing wack jobs are already ahead of you on that. Tucker Carlson thinks the US should “liberate” Canada with armed forces. >
  
  I'm a dual citizen of a country that's now basically a military dictatorship, like it or not, we can't let this country, with its power be in the hands of vermin just because we seem incapable of presenting a united front. >
  
  Good luck. It's almost impossible to be accepted into another country. If you got any disability inckuding mental disabilities you mine as well just wait until someone knocks on your door at home. It's also incredibly expensive and you have to pay upward of 5000$ just to revoke your citizenship so you no longer have to pay taxes in the US. >
  
  Ya I'm reading comments here everyone saying they want to leave, but unless you're sponsored by an employer or have highly desirable skillset, the only places that are going to allow anyone through immigration are places worse than US. >
  
  You never know… Several years ago I was given permanent residency in New Zealand due to just a BA in Theatre and some work experience at a theatre. (I didn’t renounce US citizenship, but I don’t owe US taxes due to the Foreign Earned Income Exclusion. I just have to file every year.)
  As for disabilities, I don’t know the details, but I do know that NZ will consider medical conditions, BMI, etc. when deciding, so that’s an issue. >
  
  Damn, I didn't know being fat disqualified you from NZ permanent resident status. >
  
  I really want to leave. I just don't know if I can. I know that my job could carry over well enough in English speaking countries, but I don't know if I could logistically leave my entire life behind me >
  
  As a transwoman in Texas, I have always sneered at people who would run away rather than stay and fight. These days I'm rethinking that strategy and I'm genuinely thinking about it. Unfortunately, I'm also too old to emigrate to most places. Canada for example will let me visit but won't let me stay. An ignoble end for someone who has worked all her life, served her country and just wants to be left alone but if that's my fate, so be it. I'll make it as hard on them as I possibly can to put me away. >
  
  Yeah, we see a lot of people from the US saying they will move here if X happens but I doubt many of them are aware of how rigorous our immigration standards are.  If you're over 40 you can probably forget it regardless of your other qualifications. >
  
  why wouldn't they want retirees with disposable income moving there?
  I mean  get that they don't contribute much to having kids. but the money they bring would be a benefit to the economy. >
  
  
  why wouldn't they want retirees with disposable income moving there?
  
  Because one of the big attractions in moving to Canada is our universal health care.  As an older person you are the biggest drain on that system, and yet as a recent immigrant you have contributed nothing to it over the course of  your lifetime.
  Also we want people to move here who contribute skilled labour, which is why the points system is weighted towards young people with education and credentials. >
  
  i see. thanks for the explanation >
  
  Fleeing to where?
  These white supremacists are infesting any 'white' country and you have equally bad 'nationalists' who have it out for any group but their own in other places.
  Its crazy how so many African countries are friendly to Russia considering Putin is at the bottom of a lot of the white supremacist/nationalist propaganda, trying to create division and chaos across the world (a lot of this 'good feeling' is probably a left over from USSR times where they were falsely posing as champions of the  3rd world) >
  
  Please do not leave.
  The MagaQ wave is literally dying of old age.  Don’t buy the bullshit that they’re being replaced as quickly as they die by a younger generation.  This lie is NOT born out by ANY credible demographic research.
  What’s more, MANY conservative voters have become aware that their politicians intend to fuck them out of their Social Security and their Medicare and Medicaid. >
  
  Biden give people hope things would turn around, but three year later abortion is increasingly under threat, GOP have the house and likely the Senate in 2024.
  At one point people need to save themselves. >
  
  
  At one point people need to save themselves
  
  With all due respect, fuck that shit.  That means we surrender and that’s just not my style.  It’s protypically American to stand and fight.  
  I love MY country; I’m staying. >
  
  Fuck yeah. We've been consistently getting more progressive as a country over the years. The death rattle of boomer conservatives doesn't scare me. They know they've lost the culture war and they're desperate to have Gen X and Gen Y pick up the mantle. This will backfire just like every other conservative venture.