comment: >
  
  Breathing includes both inhaling and exhaling.
context: This is a friendly reminder to read our rules.
  Remember, /r/Showerthoughts is for showerthoughts, not "thoughts had in the shower!"
  (For an explanation of what a "showerthought" is, please read this page.)
  Rule-breaking posts may result in bans. >
  
  They are big but hollow and lightly built.   They are full of hydrogen, which allows them to fly and sometimes belch flames. >
  
  TIL the Hindenburg was a dragon >
  
  That's why their hides/scales have to be so tough. One well shot arrow and it's explody dragon. >
  
  That's what happens in this scene. >
  
  I’m always dumbfounded to think that’s Mathew McConaughey. >
  
  Muuuuuurrrrrrrrfffff >
  
  What makes dragons fantasy is that they aren't real like Goblins or Mermaids. >
  
  Being on the internet long enough I am certain goblins exist >
  
  You're thinking of trolls >
  
  Tbf that’s something a goblin would say. >
  
  Tbf when it comes to many insects they appear too big for their wings, which they have ‘solved’ through vortex use. >
  
  But don't flying insects appear too big for their wings mainly because they need less lift relative to their size? Volume (mass) ~ length^3 >
  
  Many flies, if I recall correctly, shouldn’t be able to fly based on mass versus wing size ratio. Research showed it was due to the vortices created by their wings.
  Again, if I recall correctly. >
  
  Not just flies, according to all known laws of aviation there’s no way a bee should be able to fly >
  
  I think they have found out how. Fast motion, a twist and rotation of a flexible wing is making the trick >
  
  Now i m going to waste 30 minutes of my life reading about it in details. Thanks >
  
  But dragons is dinosaurs, and birds is dinosaurs, so maybe they have hollow bones. >
  
  Yeah I’m kind of comparing them to pterodactyls in my head here >
  
  Pterosaurs could fly because they were like 80% wings and swol af. Six limbed dragons would have a hard time but wyverns (4 limbed dragons) would have an easier time. Also magic and all that. >
  
  Oh yeah with 6 limbs that’s not gonna happen- I was thinking two legs and two wings (wyverns) >
  
  Not only can a Dragonite fly, it’s fast af with them baby wings >
  
  Damn never thought of this til now LOL that was part of my OG 6. >
  
  According to all known laws of aviation, dragons should not be able to fly...
  Anyway, I just kinda rationalized it to be they're magic, they'll fly if they want to. That or their wings are just wicked strong. Plus, there are also dragons that don't fly, and dragons without wings that do fly.
  Don't question the dragons! They're just cool like that.
  Edited becase why did i type see instead of are lol >
  
  
  According to all known laws of aviation, dragons should not be able to fly...
  
  Nor should butterflies, but look at them shitters go.... >
  
  I thought it was bumble bees that are not supposed to fly, but hey maybe butterflies too? I used to be aircrew on the old USCG HH-52A, we called it the “shuddering shithouse”. That thing was about 8500 lbs wet. Had a de-rated F-4 engine, an old Vietnam pilot transferred from the Army told me you can make a brick fly if you got enough power. >
  
  They are by definition "fantastical" hence the term in the first place. >
  
  Yes, but where to find them? >
  
  And then how to train one >
  
  There's a great documentary that happens to cover exactly this topic >
  
  Most dragons also have another pair of limbs. Wings, arms, and legs in many cases. The common ancestor of vertebrates only had two pairs of limbs. >
  
  The Wyverns would like to have a word… >
  
  Also Chinese dragons... >
  
  r/alsochinesedragons >
  
  They would have to have hollow bones, which wouldn’t fossilize so idk >
  
  There were some big pterosaurs. Right now all our flying animals are wimpy, but that wasn't always the case. >
  
  According to all known laws of aviation, there is no way a bee should be able to fly. It's wings are too small to get its fat little body off the ground. The bee, of course, flies anyway, because bees don't care what humans think is impossible. 
  now say it again >
  
  Quetzacoatlus, one of the largest pterosaurs & flying animals in not just the world, but in all recorded history, was once the same height as a giraffe. So it's not impossible for huge flying animals to exist. >
  
  Best dinosaur, ez >
  
  Well, that's why they have magical powers - to defy the laws of physics! Plus, if we can suspend our disbelief and accept their fire-breathing abilities, why not accept their ability to fly? After all, what's fantasy without a few impossible feats? >
  
  Some dragons fly with no wings so obviously its fantasy magic. What i dont get is why a dragon would have wings at all if it still needs to use magic.
  I know logically it all falls under rule of cool and im fine with that answer. >
  
  Maybe to manipulate said magic? They may fly with said magic, but they are still subject to how air works when flying. >
  
  The magic doesn't let them steer, that's what the wings are for. >
  
  You need to read this…The Truth About Dragons >
  
  Plenty of things that are too heavily built to be able to fly are real. Like me. 
  And your mom. >
  
  Fun fact: real dragons are filled with helium and have the squeakiest voices you can imagine. >
  
  They say the same about bumble bees, and yet they get those fuzzy butts airborne. >
  
  There’s actually a beautiful documentary (made by Animal Planet, I believe) that talks about how how dragons COULD exist as we know them—I think it’s this one. 
  It goes into all types of cool detail, like how their bodies would work when it comes to breathing fire without scorching their lungs and a theoretical bone structure that would allow them to get in the air and fly! 
  Highly recommend it; it’s so dope to see how dragons could have actually existed irl based on real science! >
  
  They also did one of mermaids, but yeah this doc was super fun as a kid >
  
  Its a bit ridiculous to make testable assertions about an untestable thing. 
  They dont exist so for every version of dragons you think of that asserts what should be impossible, I can think of a version where it is possible; both versions are valid because its all imaginary. >
  
  Airplanes weigh about 90,000 lbs so you can rule out the weight thing. >
  
  Ya don't watch a sci fi film and question why a giant mega metal tub is able to warp through space at a tremendous rate we just accept it cause it gewd boy. >
  
  What I'm saying is stop questioning it and try writing it yourself then look blankly into space and remember that we are but an iota of matter in a universe that is ever expanding. Try not to think too much about it or it'll hurt. >
  
  People have it wrong, they don't breathe fire from their mouths. They shoot it from their butt to assist in lift-off. >
  
  Dragons, among a whole slew of fictional beings, are in the category of Supernatural.  Meaning they are above nature, natural laws/physics, etc...
  They fly, in spite of the physics, because they are that powerful. >
  
  You have no clue how much they weigh man lol.
  Shower thoughts are getting worse and worse >
  
  And here I was thinking that’s it’s because they don’t exist >
  
  A Boeing 747 weighs 404,600 lbs / 183,500 kg.
  A Boeing 747 flies.
  Just saying. >
  
  June bugs shouldn't be able to fly either based on their proportions but somehow they made it happen >
  
  Also, completely aside from the issue of physical impossibility, they don't exist.  See also: unicorns. >
  
  Fine, YOU tell a dragon no. Let me know how that works out for you >
  
  Also dragons don't eat people, it's a common misconception. They actually eat gold and treasure -- that's why they're always sitting on a pile of it. >
  
  Dragons are inherently magic. Their wings aren't "mechanically," propelling them as much as channeling their power. My head Canon anyway >
  
  Just like the humble bee, it doesn't care about human physics. They shouldn't be able to fly either. >
  
  They may spit fire, but how does it ignite and what's the fuel. That's the real question >
  
  As a kid I read this fantasy biology book about dragons. 
  I remembered that they explained that they produce some kind of flammable gas in their stomach which they can push out through their mouth. But they also have some kind of fluid which they can shoot from their fangs, like snakes do with venom. So when they combine those and the gas touches the fluid it creates some kind of chemical reaction turning it into a flamethrower.
  It did mention which gas and which fluid it was. I can  try to find it tomorow. >
  
  Bumblebees shouldn’t be able to fly either based on the laws of aerodynamics but they do >
  
  In a lot of shows ive watched they explain that dragon parts are super light and durable that's why they are coveted by adventurers >
  
  Bees are also too heavy, but by some currently unknown psychics they can fly. >
  
  Bee flight physics is 100% known.  The simple form of the explanation is their wings pivot such that the generate lift on both the down stroke and the up stroke. >
  
  They get up for the downstroke. >
  
  To be fair though, bumblebees are too heavy to fly according to the laws of physics. >
  
  More like "too heavy to fly according to models derived from the laws of physics".
  If we could model the flight dynamics of a bumblebee with infinite accuracy, we would conclude that they indeed should be able to fly. >
  
  No reason your logic shouldnt be adaptable to dragons. >
  
  We don't need complex fluid dynamics to conclude that dragons might be a bit too heavy to be able to fly. >
  
  And yet they do. So clearly your model is wrong. >
  
  There is a great book called The Flight of Dragons which takes a (pseudo) scientific approach to this. There is also a great animated movie with the same name which doesn't address the subject, just thought I'd throw it in. >
  
  Loved that film. Didn't they explain it as the hot gasses inside them providing lift? >
  
  also 4 legs with wings doesn’t happen with reptiles. 2 legged wyverns are more plausible >
  
  The five-banded gliding dragon ( Draco quinquefasciatus ) has 4 legs with "wings" so it isn't necessarily accurate that it "doesn't happen with reptiles."  It just isn't very common and they don't use them to necessarily fly as much as they do to just glide from place to place. However, if you use the word flying as an adjective, it means the ability to move through the air with wings so gliding could loosely mean flying in my opinion. I'm not a reptile guy or anything just did a quick Google search because I was genuinely curious about your statement. >
  
  You don't need to have some physics-defying characteristics to be fantasy.. you just need not to exist in the real world...
  Hunicorns are just horses with a horn.. they could very well exist.. but they dont, so they are fantasy >
  
  There's a mockumentary that scientifically explains a way they would have been able to fly. If I can find it, I'll edit with a link. >
  
  forget about the mind controlling and deadly gases upon death. lol >
  
  See I always thought of it as their saliva has gasoline like qualities. Then, their breath is so hot that the heat from it ignites their saliva and they spray fire as if they're spitting. >
  
  Or they have glands like a bombardier beetle that produce chemicals that combust when mixed >
  
  idk man theres been some big flying animals. terror birds. pterosaurs were absolutely large flying reptilians.
  the 6 limbed (2 wings, 4 legss) dragon morphology is not something that we find in nature, but a wyvern morphology wouldn't be unreasonable. >
  
  Some dragons in fantasy can actually be logical, they love in mountain range because they cant fly by themselves and they just glide by the updraft and stray dragons re hunted in the plains because they cant fly away which is the most dangerous thing about them. >
  
  Also the talking part, depending on what dreagons you are referring to >
  
  I direct you to Dickinson's "The Flight of Dragons".
  The possible biochemistries of dragons are explored and aspects of their form are discussed at length; the hypnotic and well-armored skull, for eg., and their obviously lighter-than-air structure.
  Plus a jolly map of dragon myths around the UK, most of which seem to revolve around mysterious knights feeding sticky puddings to dragons to make them explode (block the relief valve!?) or kicking them to death with spiked shoes.
  Plus plus wonderful illustrations by Wayne Anderson. >
  
  There was a guy who wrote his MSc thesis (or PhD?) on the physics of dragon flying.
  Alternatively: they may fly thanks to magic and the wings are only for decoration. >
  
  They’re not heavier built that birds that look like they shouldn’t be able to fly yet they do. If you assume a massive flying lizard you probably assume a very muscular creature with hollow bones and massive, light wings for it to be physically possible. >
  
  It’s not that complicated:
  Dragons breath fire, fire is hot, hot is light, dragon is light, light is able to fly.
  See? /s >
  
  That's why they have enormous wings almost twice the size of their body >
  
  according to all laws of aviation, there is no way a dragon should be able to fly, its wings are too small to get its fat big body off the ground. >
  
  I always felt like the biggest failure of imagine was there. I always imagined that dragons could have a variety of biology. Some could be too large to fly, some just the right size and some much too tiny. >
  
  In a world where dragons evolve to spew fire, which isn’t that far fetched, the plant fauna would need to evolve to be highly resistant to fire because once something like that evolves everything changes.  
  We have plenty of species that have poison, toxins, acids, diseases etc.  
  There is not only one way breath fire, there is more than one way to ignite it.  
  Two sacks of organic compounds that when mixed react exothermically, a powder ignited by specialized electrical organ, enzyme catalyst, a mix of the above. >
  
  I read a theory that dragons would’ve had hollow bones similar to birds so that they’d be light enough to fly and that’s also why you don’t find fossils of any, cause the bones would break down much faster >
  
  It's not hard to think of an animal that can breathe fire through a perfectly natural method. >
  
  What if the two are related. Like they are filled with a gas that is both flammable and lighter than air like hydrogen. >
  
  Bee's lack the aerodynamics to fly and yet they do. I think the same guideline applies to dragons. >
  
  According to all known laws of aviation, there is no way a [dragon] should be able to fly. Its wings are too small to get its fat little body off the ground. >
  
  I'd say fairy tail dragons yea there not very special.
  D&D inspired dragons are way more detailed in how they are magical. Not to mention they have different types of dragons. >
  
  The first dragon was when a dude carrying a torch stepped on a dead, bloated snake at night (it had death gasses in it) and it popped and the gasses went foom. The rest is legend. >
  
  they fly with magic, the wings are just to help them glide in the direction they want. >
  
  Not if they had big hollow bones like birds, the lizards ancestor. Also makes sense why we can't find fossils from Dragons.
  I rest my case. >
  
  Theres also the Dragon Vs Wyvern debate 
  Wyverns have two legs and a pair of wings (like almost every winged creature on earth) while dragons have 4 limbs and a pair of wings (like no other creature of earth) >
  
  The guts of a fire-breathing dragon produce Hydrogen, which not only ignites as their fire-breath but also makes them float. >
  
  Obvious solution: make them the same size and shape as a Quetzalcoatlus >
  
  And yet almost every ancient culture you can name has some depiction or drawing of them >
  
  To heavily built to fly? A Boeing 737 weighs approximately 59,000kg with fuel and that’s not including passengers. >
  
  The dragon's wings are too light and flimsy to get it's fat, heavy body off the ground. The dragon flies anyway, because dragons don't care what humans think is impossible. >
  
  I remember that the animal planet or discovery channel had an episode on if a dragon was real, how did it breathe fire? It basically came down to it shot acid like a beetle from its stomach while also carrying flint rocks in a pouch in its mouth and when it wanted to breathe fire it would just grind the rocks against its teeth while projecting acid >
  
  They have a helium battery filled with the same gas they use for fire-breathing kind of like methane, so they are basicly giant blimps that's why they don't flap like birds. Or magic >
  
  The Last Dragon --- watch it. Its obviously fantasy but it explains how they could have existed how they could breathe fire and fly ect. >
  
  I like to think there are dragons on other planets with much denser atmospheres where they can fly and spit napalm 🤓 >
  
  It's a matter of weight ratios, a 20000 pound dragon cannot carry a 30000 pound coconut. >
  
  What about Asian dragons that are kinda long and skinty legends >
  
  And the flame comes out the wrong way. That’s the propulsion. >
  
  Biopyrotechnics are more realistic than a lizard the size of a house flying at speed >
  
  Yeah, those things must be as heavy as like an airplane. Oh wait. >
  
  Planes just flap their wings harder than dragons >
  
  They say that about bumble bees too..... Too big to fly with such small wings. >
  
  Pretty sure that one was based on bad reasoning even when the claim was first made. It was based on calculations used for planes, and bees ain't planes so it holds no water. >
  
  There were dinosaurs that flew though? Although I get the chunky Dragons they shouldn't be able to fly but slender ones should >
  
  Nah bro hollow bones just look at prehistoric birds specifically the one that only touched ground when it died >
  
  The dragon from shrek, yes. 
  The dragon from spirited away, no. >
  
  You've clearly never seen flight of dragons! They explain it in a really fun way. >
  
  in some cultures dragons are land animals and they don’t fly. >
  
  Meh, would say the same about Quetzlcoatlus if one was depicted in art >
  
  That's a weird assumption to make.
  You don't know what they are made of. >
  
  Vermithrax Pejorative in Dragonslayer has the rough proportions of a bat. Not too heavy to fly. >
  
  Being of reptilian stock, dragons are vertebrates. AFAIK, there are no vertebrates with more than 4 limbs. Some have none (snakes), some have only proto-limbs (fish), some have a pair of vestigial limbs and another pair fused into a tail (whales), but most have four (with birds, front limbs have become wings). Dragons have 6 limbs (4 legs and 2 wings), definitely don’t fit the pattern of other vertebrates. >
  
  Quetzalcoatlus was the size of a giraffe and it could fly.  Not as big as game of thrones... But you toss some scales in that thing and you got a dragon goin! >
  
  Am I being obtuse, or do the huge flying hunks of metal that we call planes negate this statement? >
  
  To be fair, the same has been said about a couple different breeds of bee. >
  
  What about the other shower thought, they exhale fire,  not breath it..?