comment: >
  
  
  the French are notorious for their lack of ability in speaking English.
  
  And also their love for soul crushingly petty bureaucracy.
context: This should be an IT cautionary tale for all companies, invest in software modernization.
  My company has critical services built on 30+ year old infrastructure design, the people who built it are long gone and "knowledge transfer" was superficial at best. Mainframe engineers are disappearing. Yet they keep kicking the can down the road, hoping that the patchwork holds. >
  
  So you're saying if I spend the next year or so learning COBOL, there's a chance that in the next decade I could have a shot at a 6 figure salary fixing mainframes? >
  
  what? if you know COBOL and understand how to work on mainframes, people will pay you insane money right now. right this very minute. >
  
  At an old company I was working at they had a business management software called AS400 which I think had its own variation of Java or something, had two 60+ year old making big bucks and they were told to teach a new IT guy before they retire. They taught him and the moment both of them left the new IT guy was like "you gonna double my salary, or im gone" >
  
  
  They taught him and the moment both of them left the new IT guy was like "you gonna double my salary, or im gone"
  
  Fucking legend. >
  
  You absolutely know both of the old people were spurring him on too. "This is how you make sure it breaks the moment you leave if they don't pay up" >
  
  I would have been if I was them lol
  Then if the new guy did leave, come back as a contractor for $200/hour >
  
  $200/hr is WAAAY too cheap for what you're talking >
  
  I literally know a software person at a bank who did this.  They let her go, systems broke, called her up and said she now does consulting. >
  
  These situations where everyday people get to hold companies hostage just tickle me. If unions were more popular, I would get my satisfaction on the reg, but I guess I take what I can and work towards the day I can do the same. >
  
  I had a flight to Puerto Rico canceled by the airline (American) back in 2021. The cancellation came out of the blue and was several weeks before I was supposed to fly. 
  When I tried to get a refund - they said they could only issue a voucher that was only valid for like 5 months. I argued with the person on the phone saying that wasn't cool and quickly googled the DOT rules. 
  As soon as I referenced the DOT - I was put on hold - and then the person came back and said they could provide a full refund.
  Still irked to this day that they tried to force me into a voucher. I imagine many others felt like that was the only option and got stuck with a voucher. >
  
  Didn’t happen with me and Viva Aerobus.  They refused my refund when they cancelled my flight last year.  I did a chargeback with my credit card company and they disputed it, despite multiple responses from myself and supporting documents, I lost my appeal.  Made complaint to DOT and no response for over 90 days.  Just fucked out of $1,000. >
  
  drop your cc company >
  
  Once it’s paid off, I will.  I’m very disappointed in how they handled it.  Multiple appeals and then they would say I didn’t submit what they asked for - when I did but they simply didn’t read it because what they asked for was probably too long of a read. >
  
  Submit it to small claims? >
  
  Pretty much my only option now because the government has failed to enforce their own regulations on carriers. >
  
  I’ve read that a lot of companies will settle small claims too because the cost of bringing a corporate employee to your local court is not worth it for them.  Attorneys are not allowed in small claims court, so they can’t just send one to take care of it.
  It’ll get the attention of their legal department who will likely settle the case prior to the court date.  Or they’ll no show with a judgement in your favor. >
  
  That’s what I figure, but filing the claim, sending notice, and then taking time off work for it is a huge hassle for me too.  I’ve already wasted time dealing with this, so to even make it worthwhile I’d have to tack on another $500-800 in lost wages. >
  
  You can sue for that too >
  
  In airports they claimed weather delays weren't their fault and it seemed like an odd statement at the time. I was part of that mess as a traveler and it was indeed a total meltdown. >
  
  The extra several days it took for Southwest to fly again while everyone else was flying showed that all cancellations after the actual storm were indeed their fault. There were articles and updates here on Reddit discussing outdated scheduling software that couldn't handle the load of putting together new routes and times that matched the location of pilots, crews and planes in a timely manner. This was a colossal failure. >
  
  I'm out of the loop, basically the entire system shit the bed and wouldn't function at all after the weather issue? >
  
  My personal experience was that our flight home on the 25th was cancelled and we were rescheduled for 8 days later. 
  What I saw on the news and read about on r/southwestairlines and other sources was that other airlines were up and running as soon as the storm was over. Southwest on the other hand had a system where pilots and crew had to manually call in to notify the airline as to where they were so they could be scheduled. They were waiting hours on hold when everyone was calling in at once because of the nationwide storm. Also the system for scheduling flights shit the bed under the load. It took them several days of scheduling and moving planes and crews around the country before they started a new schedule from scratch and got people moving again. Basically the airline equivalent of turning it off and on again. There were several reports of decades worth of requests for technoligical upgrades being turned down by higher ups. >
  
  Southwest’s plan for me was to fly me to where my connection was then leave me there for five days and fly me home from there >
  
  It was a shit show. >
  
  Back in April 2020 I had airline tickets to Portugal. Obviously after the flight got canceled it was a huge pain in the ass to get my money back. 
  After 9 months of trying to deal with the credit card company and the airline, I ended up taking Air Portugal to small claims court and got my money back within a month. 
  Department of Transportation has clear rules about refunding money when a flight is canceled. >
  
  Hey do you have any tips for the small claims process? I’m in a similar situation; TAP Air Portugal agreed to either give us a flight voucher or a refund. We chose refund and my partner got hers but they won’t send mine. It’s been literally almost a year of emails and calls and they just ignore me now. Insanely frustrating and I’m just unsure what steps to take… never expected a company to say “sure we’ll refund you” and then ghost you. >
  
  Not OP but you don’t need to take them to small claims court. I went though this with Hawaiian Air; e-mails and calls to get a refund for a vacation cancelled due to COVID. They would only offer vouchers and the voucher was expiring. File a claim with the department of transportation. They have to respond and often times it’s resolved. 
  DOT claim >
  
  Thank you so much for this! We never got our money back after a ticket through Fiji airways. They kept stringing us along saying it was taking time, then finally a couple months ago they just stopped responding.
  Eta it was for 7 plane tickets, so they owe us a lot!! >
  
  It's incredible how much power airlines have in the US. They literally dictate policy and get bailed out at every turn. The government changed COVID policy because of airlines. >
  
  Regulatory Capture
  There’s even a section on the US Federal Aviation Administration. Examples even involve Southwest Airlines! >
  
  Denying legally owed refunds/compensation has been going on for years, if not decades, because of this. There is a reason Southwest blamed the weather for so long, despite weather no longer being an issue. That's every airlines go to line to avoid paying out, they don't have to prove shit they just have to convince you you're entitled to nothing and most people believe it. This is why you need to know your rights, cause the second you mention the DOT and those regulations it will magically not be a weather problem anymore. >
  
  
  There is a reason Southwest blamed the weather for so long, despite weather no longer being an issue.
  
  FedEx will do this too, it's fuckin ridiculous. >
  
  Pour one out for the sysadmins at Southwest.
  Long ignored by financial execs who now they think they can fix their infrastructure in a farts’ notice. >
  
  Everything's working: "What do we even pay you IT nerds for?"
  Anything breaks: "What do we even pay you IT nerds for?"
  
  From the summary I read (which seems to be confirmed by other sources), what happened is that they have a super-manual process for tracking crew. Basically, their personnel-tracking software requires a calling a 1-800 number and having them do a manual update. A normal company would just have an app, right? But if a flight attendant deadheads to their next stop, they have to call in, have someone update the tracking software to their location, and then they're good to go.
  Apparently a moderate storm caused this system to hit its breaking point, and the hold times were hours. Since you have to stay within FAA-approved service hours, crew were houring-out while just sitting on hold, waiting to update the software so the entire crew could fly. 
  The irony is that this isn't even a big thing to fix. I'd bet it's a sub-$3 million improvement for the entire company. Basically give each crew employee an app on their phone that allows them to feed this info into the system on their own, and give gate attendants (who manage this info anyway) the ability to feed it into their system. 3 months from planning, testing, rollout. Couple million bucks. Could've avoided this whole nightmare. >
  
  Wow that is nuts, thanks for sharing.  I'm sure IT staff are cataloguing the CYA emails sent to management over the years when previous bottlenecks were showcased.
  I know that's what I'd be doing! >
  
  Refunds are the bare minimum here.    They should be bending over backwards to accomodate the people who got stranded due to negligence including picking up all bills for hotel stays and alternative transportation. >
  
  I got my full refund within 24 hours of my cancelled flight time. Then yesterday they sent an email to everyone offering RapidReward points, and mine are valued around $1,200 I think? Oh and I'm waiting on my reimbursement request too, including hotels, 1,600 miles in my personal vehicle, fuel, replacement clothes, etc...so they better cover all that too. We'll see. >
  
  My points “gesture of goodwill” was only 300$ worth, they did refund my flight though after over 5 hours on hold. 
  My original flight was cancelled while they were giving out boarding instructions, and they let me rebook at the counter for the earliest one next morning. That flight was canceled around 11pm and automatically rebooked to a flight that would’ve left me at my destination with less than 24 hours before the return flight and no option to rebook the return even if I could get work to approve me off for extra days. So I spent Christmas Eve on hold to get that refund. 
  I’ll never get that PTO back, and with my parents health this might’ve been my last opportunity to spend Christmas with them :( I didn’t have it as bad as everyone that got stranded that’s for sure, but it wasn’t a good time. 
  Idk if they have fixed it since then, but waiting on hold on the phone was the only way to get a refund on the 24th. Their online option only offered flight credit or rebooking. >
  
  Yes, I think the RapidRewards were worth approx. $300 per person. We had 3 tickets plus a lap child, so they provided 4 codes.
  Sorry to hear about your experience. We were fortunate enough to be able to make a quick decision to drive, be able to afford a hotel halfway through the route, and still have a good 4-1/2 days with my family. Stressful and exhausting, but not as bad as many like you said. I can't imagine being stranded in a random airport bc of a connection flight cancelling or missing the holidays completely. 
  When you fill out their form for reimbursement, include what the PTO time is worth! It's THEIR fault you wasted your EARNED vacation days so that definitely should be factored in. Good luck. >
  
  tl;dr Before you sue, try using the USDOT's online complaint form. My family and I were involuntarily denied boarding ("IDB") on a flight from Atlanta to Amsterdam in 2018 that we were confirmed on. KLM claimed we weren't confirmed, even though our boarding passes said "confirmed". After months of back and forth I filed a complaint with the USDOT at that link. Six days later (I'm sure it would take longer now), KLM acknowledged I was IDB (because fucking DUH) and wrote all of us checks for $1350 apiece plus expenses. 
  
  I'm the OP on this FlyerTalk thread about KLM dragging their feet for 2-3 months when they bumped my family from an international flight.. 
  I resigned myself to taking KLM to small claims court, then someone on the thread showed me where to file a complaint online on the US Department of Transportation consumer complaint form (link above). 
  More information on filing a complaint can be found here.
  Within a week of filing that complaint I got this email from KLM, CC'd to the USDOT:
  
  Dear [judolphin],
  This is in reference to your claim sent to the U.S. Department of Transportation.Unless we are mistaken, we have found that your booking on Delta marketed DL9375 02NOV18 ATLAMS, scheduled to be operated by KLM KL622 02NOV18 ATLAMS, was made on the date of travel. We are sorry that we have been unable to welcome your party of three.
  Please note that:
  A check for USD 1350 will be issued to [judolphin] within 6 weeks
  A check for USD 1350 will be issued to [Mrs. judolphin] within 6 weeks
  A check for USD 1350 will be issued to [judolphin, Jr.] within 6 weeks
  If you occurred [sic] some hotel/ food expenses at ATL, please provide us with the bills for our review. You can send the bills directly to my attention at [redacted], referring to DOT file [redacted]. Yours sincerely.
  [KLM Agent]
  
  
  I'm not a legal expert on this, my understanding is that if your flight was genuinely canceled due to weather, all you're entitled to is a refund on the canceled flight (unless you rebook the canceled flight), so insist on that and use the DOT link if they push back on it. 
  For the vast majority of Southwest customers the past couple of weeks, that's not legitimately the reason for the cancellations, meaning Southwest would be obligated to reimburse hotel/meal expenses/alternate airfare caused by the cancellation or delay. Use the DOT link if they push back on that. 
  Again, not a lawyer, I just used to travel a lot, check the actual DOT regulations. >
  
  I can't believe their boilerplate text had the incurred/occurred error. Ouch. >
  
  I'm assuming the KLM agent wrote it herself, which I agree is weird. Also very possible that the agent was Dutch (KLM) or French (Air France), and English wasn't her first language. >
  
  When I had a run in with KLM, the people I spoke to were Czech. Pretty happy about it, because the French are notorious for their lack of ability in speaking English.