comment: >
  
  Getting married and having children is the problem. No one gets that continuing the human race is the problem. It's not the circle of life, its the circle of certain death. Break the cycle. Rise above. Focus on science.
context: Not exactly the same, but I work as a housekeeper and gardener. I excelled in school and have a law degree, but physical work soothes my soul in a way that law and similar occupations never would. >
  
  I have worked in I.T for more years than I care to mention. Stick me in the garden to get on with jobs or decorating a room, build a BBQ. I much prefer this it's relaxing and very fulfilling. >
  
  My friend has the same job and same hobbies. I think completing tasks you can't physically see an immediate reward for doesn't hit the same reward centres as the things you describe. Also the work is never done at work, where as physical things have a process to completion with an environment improvement as the goal? >
  
  I couldn't have put it better myself. >
  
  I think that the reason a lot of people warn young girls against aiming to become housewives is because they'll be completely financially dependent on a spouse which means it is extremely difficult to leave them if they are abusive/cheat or find a job if they die/lose their jobs etc. While I agree that being a house wife/husband is really underappreciated, it's really hard to get a high-paying job with such a large employment gap, most employers don't value the skills that house-spouses have. Even in the best relationships, unbalanced financial power can still cause issues. But I agree, housewives/husbands are just as crucial as working wives/husbands but it's also important that the the stay-at-home spouse has a way out/employable skill. >
  
  Not only if they divorce, but if the spouse dies…. >
  
  Eh--this happened to my family.  You need to make sure that the working spouse is carrying a life insurance policy.  It will bridge the gap for several years while the other spouse gets on their feet.  I can say as someone that this actually happened to that this is not a reason to be too worried as long as you are able to prepare in this way.  Also get one for the stay at home spouse because if they die you need instant childcare in many cases. >
  
  Not to mention if the other spouse had a decent job and was at all financially responsible they should have a good amount stashed in 401k’s, IRA’s, and savings to pass onto the other spouse. >
  
  decent jobs don't pay enough anymore. you have to be rich to save anything. >
  
  Nawh, im barely 26 and have a solid amount in my 401k with just 2.5 years of 11% contributions+a 4% match. 
  That account alone may be worth like 200k in just 10 years inflation already factored in. That’s a good chunk to allow a potential spouse time and resources to get back on their feet assuming i die early.
  Not even considering my IRA, and cash on hand. >
  
  This is beyond most peoples means in today's economy. >
  
  Not if you have a decent job, which is the kicker my whole post relies on. And by decent i mean high 5 figures-low 6. Trust me i know people making 200k a year. They contribute upwards of 20-30%.
  Either way, About 50 some odd % of the country contributes to a 401k plan and the average out of pocket contribution is 7%, or 11% once a match is considered. It’s more common than you think, and 7-11% is honestly too little as is for a 65 retirement age and isn’t a whole lot. But definitely large enough to leave your spouse with a lot of money if you die young. >
  
  My Mother in Law felt her career was being a housewife/stay-home-mom. 
  When you listen to her talk about it, it clearly was a source of pride and fulfillment. 
  When I tried being a Housewife my home became a prison.
  No one should be forced into being a housewife/husband but there is absolutely nothing wrong with it if they feel fulfilled and/or content. >
  
  Same! I regret being by a full time SAHM. I wish I had at least kept one shift a week/every 2 weeks. I have felt so trapped the last 7 years. I love my kids and husband but I have no clue who I am as a person anymore. I would have done better with a balance of being at home and working. >
  
  I feel that “I have no clue who I am as a person anymore”
  Have you considered a job at a local (or your son’s) school? I know a lot of moms and one dad in a similar situation. Two became cafeteria workers and another a bus driver. Just an idea, hopefully a helpful one :) >
  
  The cafeteria ladies have all been there for decades so barring death, no go there, lol! >
  
  My mom is a housewife and while I never thought of it as shameful..the big issue is that like her, many housewives tend to be financially dependent on their husbands. I just know that if my mom had a job, she would’ve divorced my dad many years ago. My family is considered upper-middle class. Never had to worry about money and we’d go on expensive vacations every year. But money doesn’t always equal happiness. Being a housewife can lead to a very lonely life. Housework and childcare is basically a 24/7 job. Not much time for friends until your kids go off to college. My mom doesn’t have much friends and relies on my dad or me and my sis to spend a lot time with her. She relieves her stress through shopping but that’s really a short moment of happiness. >
  
  Being financially dependent on someone else, especially as an adult, is always a risk. I know alimony exists but I've seen people whine about that too. It's also not easy to join the workforce again after leaving your job for an extended period of time. And your spouse can die too and you'll be left to support yourself and your family on your own. 
  And if I earn my own money, I can choose a partner I genuinely like rather than going for a rich man who earns enough to support our whole family on a single income. >
  
  
  And your spouse can die too and you'll be left to support yourself and your family on your own.
  
  if you have a family to support you're likely grappling with childcare costs which might end up being too expensive to handle, making it more cost-effective to just be a stay at home spouse >
  
  Childcare isn't that expensive where I live. Cost of living such as rent, good schools etc is significantly more expensive than childcare.
  And there's a difference between having a job and a career. You can progress significantly with a career as and when kids grow up and save more money for college or just earn more in general in the future. However if it's a just a low paying job like retail or something (?) then yeah makes sense to leave. >
  
  
  Childcare isn't that expensive where I live.
  
  all I gotta say is... must be nice lol >
  
  I’m a trophy husband! Divorced so really bad at my job though >
  
  I hate that people think being a house wife/husband is just sitting on your ass all day after doing a couple chores, they deserve as much respect as everyone else. That said I wouldn't willingly be one. I feel like not enough people acknowledge that choosing to be in a situation where you rely on some else's income is a risk. Nobody expects their SO to cheat or become abusive but it's always a real possibility and if you have no job experience or college education from before you became a house spouse it's going to be very difficult to leave especially if you have kids. This is why I don't think being a housewife or house husband should be shamed or praised because you're putting yourself at risk and you have no money that you made yourself. I think one of the reasons divorce has gone up and is initiated by women more is because these days more women have an actual income and can leave when they need/want to. >
  
  It's totally ok if it's what the person actually wants to do, it's only a problem if they are pushed/forced into it by their partner or societal expectations. >
  
  Adult not having their own money, has nowhere to go if marriage doesn’t work. Living on one income is miserable if other partner is not a top earner.  It’s a way to abuse. The only thing I understand is when stay at home spayed has their own investment account with each month regular amount being put there as salary/pension plan. Also amount of money for escape strategy. Taking into account that if divorce happens they will not be able to find descent job with this hole in experience or education. I don’t want to be that miserable.
  And family of 4 with 1 breadwinner is extremely risky unstable structure. So much pressure on breadwinner >
  
  But.. in theory, that breadwinner doesn’t need to lift a finger at home. So less pressure? >
  
  Why do people think like this though? Raising a family/running a household is a 24/7 job. Why should the stay at home partner work days, evenings, nights and weekends while the breadwinner only puts in 40 hours a week? >
  
  Being a housewife is a lot of work, especially if you have kids. That shit might even be more difficult than being some “girl boss ceo” because it’s literally a full time job- you don’t just go home because when you’re a housewife your home is your job. 
  They should be given more credit >
  
  I would say "only" if you have kids, if there's no kids, stay at home wife/husband would be piss easy and only fair if it is with the full agreement of the spouse. >
  
  Well yeah it depends on what everyone mutually agreed to do. And the size of the household. Maybe location. Lots of factors. But sometimes being a part of a company can be extremely easy. So yeah, many factors >
  
  Is it? Running a household is a full time job, more so if you have kids. If I'm ever in a position where my partner earns enough for the household, and it's needed, I'd be down for it. Especially if there's kids involved. My career interest can even be done at home largely. >
  
  Being a housewife is not nearly as shameful as being a househusband, by orders of magnitude. >
  
  Which it shouldn’t be but I see what you’re saying. >
  
  House husbands are very much appreciated >
  
  My wife is a housewife. She works very hard to keep our house in order, care for our two babies, and make sure I’m taken care of as well. I’m a corporate attorney and provide for us financially 100%, but she is very much an equal partner. 
  For example: after my shower and getting dressed for work this morning I came out to see her filling out medical forms for our sons with one on her lap and my lunch and breakfast (plus a snack) and coffee for the day were already prepared on the counter. 
  She’s caring for twins all day after being up with them most of the night and keeping our house clean, the laundry done, etc. etc. She’s a rockstar and anyone who says housewives are lazy have no clue what they’re talking about. >
  
  Ikr?! There is a lot of work, organization, daily tasks, accounting, and mental resilience that goes along with being a good homemaker in a family. >
  
  If someone can afford to stay home sure do it. But if you have to depend on the government money, go to work. >
  
  Being able to be financially independent is a good thing regardless if divorce or death ends the marriage. It’s extremely hard for someone to get back into the workforce after being out of it for an extended period of time. It also helps keep the financial power in the relationship more balanced. >
  
  I’m on leave right now with my 5 mth old son, can confirm that stay at home parent is the most difficult job I have ever done and I have a very demanding career. Major props to all the stay at home parents out there! >
  
  It's weird to me that society wants to shame the people who get to chill around the house all day. Sounds like pure jealousy to me. >
  
  Taking care of kids and a household is not chilling all day. It’s that mentality that takes away the credibility of the work. >
  
  i think feeling the need to define it as work is just vanity, i think most parents would rather be at home raising their child than be at work. SAH is easily the more enviable position. >
  
  Have you done it though? The hours blur together, you have not a second to yourself, not even to get clean. There’s very little adult company to trade thoughts with. You survive from tantrum to nap time to when your partner gets home. If you get some energy when the baby or toddler is asleep you may get something cleaned. But more often you’re exhausted and getting sleep yourself or finally having a poo. If the child is older you’re always making and remaking snacks and meals and arguing and entertaining and wondering if it’s been too much screen time. Your weight creeps up because you finish all of their uneaten meals and they cried the last few walks you tried to do. The house is a mess, and you can’t find it in yourself to care because you are so tired and overwhelmed and then partner comes home and no you don’t get a break because they’ve been working all day too and now you have to work together to make dinner appear. I’m telling you that first walk out of the daycare of the first day after all of that… priceless!
  Sitting at a desk all day with a nice structured lunch time and a walk and some chit chat is MUCH less work. Not to mentioned feeling fulfilled to be accomplishing something and contributing and not just someone’s mommy. I love my kids but it’s too much for all of us to be home together all day everyday. They need exposure to other people and kids too. >
  
  Idk why you’re getting downvoted for just sharing your experience, but thank you for giving your honest contribution to this discussion!
  I’ve been married for 6 years and will not go into motherhood lightly because of all the things you mentioned. Children are very difficult to be around 24/7. Pile all the housework, groceries, cooking, cleaning, etc….SAH parents work hard for little reward, and society still looks down on them. Raising children is a very important contribution to society.
  I hope you are doing well and if you’re still raising kids, that you find some time for yourself today :) >
  
  Yah, those groups are all the same, freedom and bs unless your freedom doesn’t align with their agenda. My gf actually likes staying at home and having much more free time since we moved together, now she goes to the gym, started the courses she has been pursuing for years… >
  
  Emancipation isn't just about women fulfilling traditional male roles, it's about having the freedom to choose your own path as a woman. That includes a path as a housewife.
  Individual freedom means that you can take your own decisions, but also that you're responsible for them. You want a career? Go for it! You want to stay at home and raise your kids instead of outsourcing them do a daycare? Go for it! Do what you want to do, as long as you don't harm others or infringe their own individual freedoms in the process. >
  
  You're right. The problem happens though when you don't work for years, your husband (or wife) leaves you and you have nothing. You have no job, no work experience, just alimony (and that's not always a case). It's very risky to be a housespouse. Everyone makes their choice but damn, it's risky as hell. I know that people believe in love and that's great but nowadays around 50% of married couples get divorced. >
  
  with the exception of special needs and suprise triplets i feel like choosing to be a SAH after the kid goes to school is a very telling personal choice, it says i wish to be taken care of. Plenty of households where both parents work, keep thier house in order and find time to raise their children well. >
  
  Idk, I am a man. It would be a dream come true if I could devote all my time and energy solely to being with my family at home. It is so sad that people feel shameful of such a blessing. >
  
  It's not the shame, its the risk that most people don't want. Being totally dependent on someone to feed you and not having savings of your own in case things go south is not smart. >
  
  If the woman wants divorce she can get like half everything the husband owns without lifting a finger. Yet men still take that risk of losing what they've collected and get married. I don't think what you said rely means too much. >
  
  In how many countries is that true hun? It isn't that way in most countries. There's a whole world outside of your country.
  The post didn't ask about a specific country, so you can't refute my answer with specifics about your country.
  Also, if you were a house husband, you would get half in your country as well. So why did you make this about gender? >
  
  I am glad you brought this up. As I work with international people, Europeans and Americans, who have the most "equal rights" in marriage contracts are the ones who are the most depressed, divorced, and the ones who criticize stay at home parents the most. >
  
  Most people want more time with their families, especially parents.
  We should be encouraging it and promoting it, not sidestepping it because work. >
  
  because *of work >
  
  its cause people constantly undervalue work done by women. you can see this with female dominated professions - teaching, nursing, etc.
  also, people usually dont consider domestic work as actual labor when it clearly is. theres a great book on the subject called “who cooked the last supper?” >
  
  The problem is letting yourself be completely dependent on someone else.
  I think it worked in past generations because men respected the arrangement and made enough money to pay all the bills.
  But in the 70s and 80s that eroded and many women were cheated on/abused/abandoned financially.   
  After that many woke up and saw what a trap they built for themselves.   Independence became more important for women. >
  
  People should be able to do whatever they want to do, as long as they aren't hurting other people. >
  
  Being a house husband is great, it means you have married a strong, powerful independent woman.
  Being a housewife means you’ve gone along with the patriarchy. As long as you are aware that you’re making a decision that destroys society, then, fine, I guess. >
  
  damn those mothers raising their kids! wont they think of SOCIETY?! (shakes fist at cloud) >
  
  Exactly. It’s almost as if a lot of people on Reddit are 18 year olds in 101 courses with zero life experience hearing things for the first time then post about them unfiltered. >
  
  it's my dream job tbh. >
  
  Simple life advice stay out other people marriages >
  
  My wife is a sahm mom and hasn't experienced any negativity >
  
  I don't think it's shameful, but these days I think it only really works if the other spouse has a very good income.  With the cost of living these days, a single-income household doesn't go as far as it used to. >
  
  I support you, being a housewife is just as important as a job as anything else, sometimes more >
  
  yeah i think if there’s children then it’s pretty much a necessity to have someone at home, i’m a sahm and i can not imagine having to work and come home and clean and take care of babies and cook (cause let’s face it women almost always end up doing the majority anyway) i would lose my mind lol. but it just improves everyone’s quality of life >
  
  I don’t think it’s shameful, but it’s almost necessary to have both parties work in order to make ends meet (unless you’re some powerhouse earner-top5% etc). >
  
  i’m a SAHD and i hate it. it’s this way because my wife had a stable job and i lost my job. we had a kid and i’ve been taking care of the kid and the house. i want another kid but we can’t afford it on one income, and i can’t get a job because i’m taking care of the kid.
  then add the social stigma of my wife taking care of me and not earning any money for myself. i’ve looked for WFH jobs but never found anything i can do. >
  
  Oh I’m so sorry. How old is your child? >
  
  I don't think it is shameful. I think a lot of people have this belief. Don't they?? >
  
  There’a a growing movement right now where women have to be independent and strong. Can’t admit you’re lonely/want to pair up or that you dare want to stay home to take care of family. 
  It’s frighteningly similar to toxic masculinity tbh. >
  
  The expectation to fulfill that role is oppressive. Refusing the option is equally oppressive. >
  
  Liberal women shame women over it and conservative men shame men over it...
  Fun! >
  
  I can’t fathom why anyone would want to be dependent on someone else financially like that. >
  
  If you want to be a house wife or a house husband than that's okay. Be whatever you want, you shouldn't have to explain yourself to anyone. >
  
  I think it’s all about choice, and no woman should be shamed for picking one or the other yknow? Personally, I have no interest in having a family and am very happy to be a career focused person. Cool, I have that choice. My mom on the other hand, absolutely loved being a SAHM and it gave her happiness that her career never did. And that was her choice. TDLR; judgement bad. Choice good. >
  
  I became a SAHM when our second child was born.  I would never change it EVER! I loved being with my kids.  I never had to worry about someone else keeping them.  I never missed 1 school function. My husband and I decided that we could do without for the sake of our children.  We didn’t need a big house or fancy cars.  We made it just fine. There is absolutely no shame in it. >
  
  If given the choice between kid duty vs a job, I think I would choose job.
  I would personally go crazy stuck at home all day with no adult interaction. >
  
  I think there needs to be a separation of kids at home and when kids go to school. Or even kids go to daycare while someone stays at home. Entirely different situations.
  My stepmom doesn’t work and other than clean the house she basically does nothing. The kids do their own laundry. We eat out half of the week. She’s lazy. >
  
  Some people are just better homemakers. I totally agree. There’s a double standard with men I would like to see re-examined.  It takes an especially independent and open minded woman to accept having a house husband. >
  
  I don't think most people's problems actually lie with being a housewife, it's the fact that it's pretty much expected of women. The pushback you're seeing isn't against the actual choice, it's pushback against the notion that they have to fall into that role. Nothing wrong with it if you enjoy it, but we can't pretend like we're not still living in a society which pressures women to fulfill the caretaker role regardless of their own wishes. >
  
  I've never heard of shaming folks who stay home. >
  
  Unpopular or not, 100% agreement. I love being a stay at home husband, I just like it, I enjoy cooking, looking after home, keeping everything ready as wife returns from work. I enjoy and am happy to work for my family rather than greezing my ass for some hospital/corporate shithole. I think this should be encouraged rather than be frowned upon (though obviously if it as per ones choice). >
  
  I've never understood the hate for these occupations. 
  "You cook for total strangers? Wow, you're a chef, that is so cool".
  " You cook for your loving family? Wow, you really let the patriarchy plow you down".   
  I've met a lot of housewives, and most of them are nicer to be around than plenty of people I've met who have a "real job". >
  
  Oh, I don't think its shameful.
  But, what I do have beef with, is when housewife/husbands try to equate their stress/workloads to what is managed by two working parents.
  If you are a housewife/husband or you have a spouse that is a housewife/husband, I don't want to hear about how stressful your lives are with regards to managing time or work/life, etc.  You don't get to complain about that to me or to my spouse.
  And in the same vane, I won't complain to you about the prices of things/inflation, etc. We have two incomes to absorb  the cost of things.
  Some of chose money, some of us chose time. >
  
  I agree. What does a homemaker even do all day? My spouse and I both work full time and manage to take care of our home and children. >
  
  I love taking care of the house. Cooking, chilling, cleaning, doing laundry. It's my favourite thing. >
  
  This sub should learn the difference between 
  
  
  an unpopular opinion 
  
  
  an opinion that is unpopular because you discuss it with very specific sets of people and ignore the lots who share the same opinion with you >
  
  I'm more valuable at home taking care of the house and farm than I ever would be standing behind the counter at some mega corporation chain store. My husband will openly admit to anyone that he wouldn't be where he is now without me supporting him at home and that should never be undermined by society. >
  
  There's nothing shameful about it unless they're useless.
  If my wife were to be a housewife but then I still had to do everything around the house, I'd be pissed off. But it's not like that - we both work, we both do chores.
  If her work was at home, I would expect that when I'm off work she would be too. >
  
  I don't want to rely on other people's money nor do I want other people to rely on my money simple as that. I don't think there's anything wrong with being a house wife/husband but for me it's a loss of independence. >
  
  I just think it's not a good idea to be financially dependent on your spouse.  Half of all marriages fail so just keep that in mind. >
  
  Not shameful - like "hang your head."  Counterintuitive - like "what are you thinking?"
  The SAH role, freely chosen, can be both honorable and practical, as you say.  Only it comes with risks.  For the working spouse, divorce may be costly, but it poses no threat of abject poverty.  But for the SAH spouse, divorce may be a dire prospect.  So you have this imbalance of power, in which the SAH can find that they've become the lesser of two equals.
  I credit your father with earning mum's confidence to the degree that this choice requires.  Or perhaps she just rolled the dice and got a seven.  Sometimes the choice is made when confidence is well-earned, and sometimes it's made while wearing rose-colored glasses. >
  
  I think it depends entirely on whether the couple has children or not. Stay at home parent, admirable. Stay at home spouse with no actual substantive responsibilities, lame. >
  
  If we abstract gender out of the equation for a moment, I would argue that in a family one parent should stay home and care for the house, the children et cetera.
  But back to reality - the patriarchy can't have men doing those things. It needs men, its primary enforcers, to dominate the workforce, it needs them to be worn down and unthinking. I'm being deliberately provocative here, but hopefully you all see my point. 
  Likewise, as most female feminists will tell you, it can't have women in the workforce - I won't speak for them, since I am not them. 
  So, we all know that saying someone should stay home would equate to women being denied careers. I'd happily be a stay-home dad, spend my days fixing up the broken shell of a building that my landlord rents to me, cooking, cleaning and the works - but the final nail in the coffin is that for a large section of society in most western countries the idea of living on a single income is merely a pipe dream. >
  
  I became a SAHM in my 30s when we discovered the  only daycare for infants in my area closed just before I gave birth. The next was 45min away, as opposed to 5min, from my work and more expensive. After crunching numbers, we realized my entire paycheck plus would go to daycare and someone else would be raising my baby. 
  So, with trepidation, I quit Corporate America. 
  Stayed home for a decade, had two kiddos, and felt guilty for one year. Then I woke up to how lucky we were that we barely suffered, no steak dinners every night lol, and I raised our own kids. Had so much fun after that. When the youngest started 1st grade I went back to work part-time and full-time when they became a teenager. 
  Yes, it was very nice to have two incomes again, but neither of us would trade how it worked out. It was a blessing in disguise when that daycare closed. 
  My old job gave 6 weeks maternity leave, but when my baby turned that age I couldn't imagine leaving that tiny baby with strangers. That was my biggest takeaway. 
  The worst SAHM shamers were a couple of girlfriends, now ex friends. One called me a Stepford Wife and proceeded to Mean Girl me for decades. We haven't been friends for years, but that didn't stop her from getting a jab in every time she saw me around town. All the while being sugar sweet to the rest of my family. What a relief when they finally saw her true colors. 
  If you are financially forced into being a SAHM, make the best of it. >
  
  Being a househusband sounds amazing to me tbh >
  
  For the majority of people, housewifery is in fact oppressive and a function of other economic and social realities. Kudos to those who want to hold that role and are able to, though. >
  
  It's not... 
  Its 3rd wave feminists that say it's sexist and what not but then mention their end goal in life is to have a husband that earns 2-400k a year so then don't have to work anymore 😂
  If I had a wife making 6figures I would have no problem staying home with the kids and taking care of the house >
  
  For me, Im not really sure what the selling point is. I guess there’s the whole “focus on raising the next generation” angle, which makes sense, but beyond that, what does a housewife/husband get out of doing house maintenance tasks? 
  You work to maintain a home someone else owns, raise some kids and get what? The satisfaction of having more attention to spend on them? Is that the totality of what you want to dedicate decades of your life to…? If it makes you happy, great but still it feels so… small a life to live to me…
  I feel more pity then disgust. Its a noble role, but its a huge self sacrifice, and for what? We have modern role organizations that allow both partners to pursue productive and fulfilling careers. Why throw all that away for this? >
  
  I love the fact that you completely turned the problem upside down. :D You get my upvote for it.
  The problem of housewifes isn't that they are opressed. It's that they're using their partners instead of working. >
  
  Fine with this, as long as house-wives/house-husbands stop lying to themselves and everyone else about how “difficult” it is being a stay-at-home parent to kids that are in school most of the day, Monday to Friday. Housework and cooking meals is not hard, so stop trying to pretend that it is. >
  
  If the cooking is good, it is fair 
  But sometimes, the cooking is very lazy. 
  Eg. Ready made meal, air fry everything, cooking without seasoning / with lazy seasoning (random match of supermarket ready made sauce pack). >
  
  Ok bigot. Women aren't slaves made to stay at home. There's literally nothing more fulfilling that a woman can do than make powerpoints for a $60k a year >
  
  Chill a little. 
  What about if I want to be a househusband? (Which is also in the title) >
  
  Why would anyone want to raise their own children and spend time with them? Sounds ridiculous. I'd much rather toil away sending emails for a meager salary all day while public school teachers convince my child he's gay >
  
  My mom was brainwashed into wanting to be a housewife and made to think it was her choice* >
  
  How when if she wanted to work no one would’ve stopped her >
  
  I stay home now and in this role I feel subhuman. I am productive and it feels like I am a martyr or subhuman, I am not productive and It’s hard to enjoy relaxation. I used to work as a nurse, I went to a nice university and got a bachelors right away, I worked in an ICU and in that role I felt subhuman. I became a mother and after the third time I sacrificed and delivered I felt like I was nothing at all for 2 years. My husband is in the top 1% of earners. Society isn’t set up for a balanced life with enjoyment, and it hasn’t been for a long long time. Generations before we’re just better at accepting misery. >
  
  Op definitely doesn’t have a job >
  
  No I’m in a wheelchair I cannot walk you are correct I do not >
  
  True that. Whoever earns less should take care of the house. Can save tonnes of money this way >
  
  But we need to oppress women now by not letting them do what they want still, again, always, forever, jesus, merica, maga, money, don't send the little ones to school today honey >
  
  Quite frankly, I wouldn't mind being a househusband for a few months if needed, as long as we can back-up our finances and stuff.
  My lover could decide to become one, I'd have no issues either.
  But I think there are two reasons to people frowning upon this:
  1. Because a housewife/husband is heavily dependant on their spouse. Sure, if the spouse is a normal person, not abusive etc., this is an entirely valid way of living, at least for a good portion of working life years. But I totally get where people are from when they speak about this: abusive spouses sadly are a reality.
  
  Because people can quickly get too passionate.
  Tl;Dr reason 2: because, I believe, people quickly go for the witch hunt.
  
  Housewives/husbands (but historically, more housewives than the contrary), as well as rights repression acted towards specific groups and other stuff like that: these have all been long lasting unfair obligation/harassing that once have been considered absolutely normal. I think that mostly women get upset about housewives: not because "they are women", but because the odds of ending up face to face with someone who still has the ways of the past are high, and that would not find any issue for enforcing such way of life by force. 
  Just as quite a bit of people today still are racist, so that discussions around "people's rights" quickly get heated because of that primarily assumption, when sometimes people can have a more nuanced opinion than just "bigot" or "racist" (this does not necessarily mean that the opinion can't be countered with might, simply that there is, as always, more than just "black or white" when it comes to opinion. Opinions lay down on a spectrum of thoughts).
  It can get hard to understand (not a native english speaker, sorry), but here's an example that happened to me: me, a gay guy, has already been called homophobic for stating that people still have a right to think whatever they want (note: to think, not to act. I'll condemn any homophobic act with all my might. But I can't put guilt on someone's head just for what they think. Just as I have already been called paedophiliac for this same reason (freedom of thought), whereas I'd rip off the head of any guy who'd actually have touched a kid. That doesn't mean that I don't set my boundaries, distances or that I don't express my disapproval to those people. But to think is and should never be a crime.) >
  
  Tatsu, is that you? Don't worry bro the yakuza remembers you fondly >
  
  Couldn't agree more.  I wish my wife and I had been in a position financially when my kids were young that she could've stayed home with them.  Unfortunately, it wasn't in the cards for us.  Now we could, but my kids are grown, so she works to rake in the cash. >
  
  Downvote as that isn't unpopular.  
  Some women want to be housewives, some men want to be househusbands.  Should totally be up
  the couple to decide.  It's not my business what your wife does or doesn't do. >
  
  I don't think it actually is... sounds like you have some barriers in your own head. >
  
  It’s not. >
  
  I don't have an award to give!  Here take my poor man's award 
  ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⣤⣶⣶⡶⠦⠴⠶⠶⠶⠶⡶⠶⠦⠶⠶⠶⠶⠶⠶⠶⣄⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⣿⣀⣀⣀⣀⠀⢀⣤⠄⠀⠀⣶⢤⣄⠀⠀⠀⣤⣤⣄⣿⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡷⠋⠁⠀⠀⠀⠙⠢⠙⠻⣿⡿⠿⠿⠫⠋⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⣤⠞⠉⠀⠀⠀⠀⣴⣶⣄⠀⠀⠀⢀⣕⠦⣀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⢀⣤⠾⠋⠁⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⣼⣿⠟⢿⣆⠀⢠⡟⠉⠉⠊⠳⢤⣀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⣠⡾⠛⠁⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⣀⣾⣿⠃⠀⡀⠹⣧⣘⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠉⠳⢤⡀ ⠀⣿⡀⠀⠀⢠⣶⣶⣿⣿⣿⣿⡿⠁⠀⣼⠃⠀⢹⣿⣿⣿⣶⣶⣤⠀⠀⠀⢰⣷ ⠀⢿⣇⠀⠀⠈⠻⡟⠛⠋⠉⠉⠀⠀⡼⠃⠀⢠⣿⠋⠉⠉⠛⠛⠋⠀⢀⢀⣿⡏ ⠀⠘⣿⡄⠀⠀⠀⠈⠢⡀⠀⠀⠀⡼⠁⠀⢠⣿⠇⠀⠀⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⡜⣼⡿⠀ ⠀⠀⢻⣷⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢸⡄⠀⢰⠃⠀⠀⣾⡟⠀⠀⠸⡇⠀⠀⠀⢰⢧⣿⠃⠀ ⠀⠀⠘⣿⣇⠀⠀⠀⠀⣿⠇⠀⠇⠀⠀⣼⠟⠀⠀⠀⠀⣇⠀⠀⢀⡟⣾⡟⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⢹⣿⡄⠀⠀⠀⣿⠀⣀⣠⠴⠚⠛⠶⣤⣀⠀⠀⢻⠀⢀⡾⣹⣿⠃⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⢿⣷⠀⠀⠀⠙⠊⠁⠀⢠⡆⠀⠀⠀⠉⠛⠓⠋⠀⠸⢣⣿⠏⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠘⣿⣷⣦⣤⣤⣄⣀⣀⣿⣤⣤⣤⣤⣤⣄⣀⣀⣀⣀⣾⡟⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢹⣿⣿⣿⣻⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⠁⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠛⠛⠛⠛⠛⠛⠛⠛⠛⠛⠛⠛⠛⠛⠛⠛⠛⠛⠃ >
  
  How is this unpopular >
  
  The problem is when people say it SHOULD be like this or that. But when it’s a choice, I don’t see a problem either. Hell, I wish I didn’t have to work lol >
  
  When they start paying people to be housepartners, equality will follow. >
  
  I would love to be a stay at home dad right now. I would love to see my son do all his firsts and not watch some video of it. 
  Could care less what anybody thinks about being a stay at home parent. >
  
  Country/location dependent, but if you have kids and your spouse is making less than a certain amount, it may not make financial sense for them to work if most of their income is just forked over to childcare. 
  If both parents are high-earners above that threshold, then you're effectively paying for one spouse to stay at home. >
  
  I don't need a housewife, I can clean my own mess, I don't like other people touching my stuff anyway >
  
  If a couple can afford for one of them not to work in this day and age then they deserve a bloody medal. >
  
  Lots of “but you’re not financially independent”. 
  I have a teeny job out of choice but not enough of I wanted to go solo. (I don’t, we’re great!)
  What I also have is a legal document saying I get halfsies if it all went wrong. For any reason. 
  We both work. I just do (most of) my work for us, for him, for the sprog, for our home to be tidy, and cozy etc. 
  If you’re organised and plan for the worst, and you’re both happy, it’s cool. >
  
  Quickly tell us why your mom wanted to be a housewife >
  
  Most people can both work and take care of their home so i don’t see why someone would need to spend the whole day every day of the week taking care of the home. And there are many parents who work and take care of their kids, unless its a baby or special needs child i dont see why u cant just drop them off at school or daycare and pick them up after your done with work. Most people have to do what a house-spouse does anyways so to me i just cant see it as equivalent to a job.
  If ur spouse makes enough money to support you then i have no problem but i will never see it as something worthy of respect. I personally wouldn’t want to marry someone who’s financially dependent on me. >
  
  I guess some of the “shame” comes from a genuine concern. My parents, father especially, have always taught me the importance of being INDEPENDENT financially. You see, when a person makes a decision to become a full time housewife it usually comes with them resigning their job, loosing their part of income and relying fully on their partner to sustain them. This comes with a boatload of inconveniences and potential problems. Being dependent on someone is not good. Being dependent on someone financially is even worse. Maybe someone will not find it troublesome, after all the spouse shared that money, buys groceries and pays bills. 
  What if the spouse cheats? What if the spouse opts for a divorce? What if the spouse gets kicked out of the job? What do you do then?
  I would not be sad if my partner offers to pay our bills, take us on vacations and sustain our life. If he wants to pay for everything because he can? Why not? Will I become a housewife and resign from my job? Absolutely not. At this point I am not even sure I’ll be willing to NOT share the bills. I just don’t find it fair, I guess?
  Strangers on the internet attacking housewives for their choices is not okay. But a close person or a relative warning them about potential setbacks is just simple concern. >
  
  Is there an option to be a house husband ? Im a single father, I have to cook clean and work 12 h shifts. Any wealthy women looking for one hmu >
  
  It’s only shameful if you feel shame. Let the others think whatever the f*ck they please while you enjoy your fulfilling life. >
  
  I agree! Many women still dream of having kids and keeping the house, being ridiculed for it. It's a very important job. To make nutritious food, to keep the house clean to prevent allergies and pests, to give proper attention to children... People seem to not understand the importance of all that nowadays. Also, our lifespans are increasing, so of course said wife/husband can still work and study when the kids grow up to their teens or so. My grandma and mom did that.
  Of course, having a supportive partner will always be extra helpful... Which wasn't the case regarding my dad. He just gave more work to my mom and undervalued her cooking, which is delicious. >
  
  Not unpopular. This issue comes down to personal fundamental beliefs, and it has nothing to do with the culture war that so many are making it out to be. As a progressive woman, I cannot fathom why anyone would take issue with a woman or man choosing to make their family the priority. Honestly, please point me in the direction of such hate because I haven't seen it. Of course, there are extremists who think all women HAVE to be all things, but those are the fringe groups. 
  The majority of people lie in between the extremes and have no problem with personal choices, but I think you're perpetuating a myth. Want to be a stay at home mom or a work from home mom or whatever it is? Do that! The idea that feminists are opposed to stay at home moms is asinine. >
  
  Yo if girls looking for a stay at home husband hit your boii up >
  
  Just get off the internet.  The world's current hobby is finding things 'problematic'.  The whole fucking planet is one church, everyone's a church lady, and they all worship different gods.  Live your life and be proud, not so much of what you do, but that you choose to do it knowing that everyone else can go fuck themselves. >
  
  I work from home as a software developer. I do a lot of the household chores in between work including picking the kids up from after school daycare so I kind of work part time as a house husband. 
  Nothing shameful or wrong about it. At least in the country we live in it’s slowly becoming normal as more and more younger couples are trying to do better by being present in their children’s lives >
  
  Most people who only care about progression are the ones who tend to oppress the traditional way of life and shame those who choose it. I love the role of a housewife. The wife is the home her husband comes to, no matter where they are in this world. She nurtures the garden and f*cks the war out of her man. >
  
  If our mortgage allowed it I’d fucking love to be a housewife. >
  
  It’s not shameful, I’m personally just terrified of being financially dependent on someone.
  But personally I don’t mind being the working parent. I do want my partner to feel like leaving is always an option they can financially afford if they’re miserable. 
  Makes for a better relationship, IMO. >
  
  Maybe I'm biased because I'm a sahm but I think everyone should do what makes them happy/what's best for their family. >
  
  Agree, and I hate that people think it automatically means you’re financially dependent. First of all, in any divorce there’s going to be a downgrade in lifestyle because all prior budgeting was based off 2 incomes. Even with celebrities they sell homes post divorce.
  Secondly, there’s ways to protect yourself. The non-income earning partner is entitled to their own bank account and money from each paycheck. Likewise, they should be named on main bank accounts, retirement accounts, life insurance policies, and properties. They should also have their own retirement account. A lot of these protections can also decrease the need/amount of alimony in the event of divorce.
  It is a lot of work being the non-income earning partner. But it should never be so much work that it would violate labor laws if you were a domestic worker. >
  
  I could never be a stay at home dad. I need to make my own money. >
  
  I very much agree with this take. Housewives these days get shamed out of wanting to be one and are told that it’s because of the “patriarchy” or because they were “brainwashed.” Househusbands are told that if they are to be a “real man” they need to be the sole or primary breadwinner of the household and work at a job that’s away from the wife and/or kids.
  People should be allowed to do what they want, and also I wouldn’t put down doing household chores either. I can agree with the general consensus that taking care of the kids and trying to keep the house clean is generally easier to do compared to working a typical 9-5 job or some type of physically demanding job, but house work can certainly be hard work sometimes and very easily tire people out. I sometimes have to babysit my younger siblings and they always leave me exhausted by the end of the day (sometimes I even pass out by 7 or 8 P.M.)
  If you want to get a job, go ahead and do it. If you want to stay home and take care of the house and make both your husband/wife/children happy, go ahead and do it. My general take is that the nuclear model is the best for both keeping your spouse happy and raising healthy children. You have one parent that goes out and works so that they can keep a roof over their families head a some food on the table, another parent stays home to watch over the house and take care of the kids.
  Unlike in the past where it was primarily the man who was the breadwinner and it was the woman who took care of the house/kids, I personally don’t believe the gender should matter when it comes to deciding which role a partner should take. If the woman wants to be the breadwinner, cool. If the man wants to be a househusband, cool. If the man still wants to continue the traditional role of being the breadwinner and the woman wants to continue the traditional role of being the housewife, that’s also cool! People shouldn’t be shamed into not playing a specific role if they are better fit for a different role. Some women are better at taking care of the home while some women are better at working a traditional job (vice versa for men as well). 
  Some people have a more maternal, cleanly, and reserved nature that is best suited for the role of a housewife/husband, while some people have a more ambitious, competitive, and adventurous nature that is better suited for a job. It’s a shame that both men and women are being shamed or forced into only working for the corporate world rather than choosing which role they’d truly like to take part in. >
  
  If you want to become a housewife, that career path works better if you are born an heiress. >
  
  It's not. No rational person thinks so.
  Generally what people are talking about is the societal expectations that women take care of the home and if their own ambitions are outside the house, they are expected to abandon those.
  It also becomes an issue where a housewife/husband is expected to do all the housework/chores and are treated like a maid/personal chef. >
  
  Stay at home dad is 100% my dream job. I hate cleaning but cooking, playing with legos, finding crafty/nature-y projects to do, and even helping with homework are actually all things that I enjoy doing. >
  
  Government wants that tax from your working income & the extended employment opportunities via outsourcing child-rearing - valued more than you prioritising parenting your kids unfortunately. Can relate to the frustrated feeling. >
  
  Havent heard of being a housewife as shameful, but oh boy have o ever heard a lot of stuff concerning it being shameful to be a h(o)us(e)band. >
  
  I believe people can't make up their mind at this point. 
  ​
  Stay at home parent? 
  "How dare you stay within outdated gender norms!"
  ​
  Person chooses to not have kids and gets a job instead and has pets? 
  "What on earth is wrong with you to the point of where you refuse our most basic prehistoric, millions of years old instinct of loving and caring and being Mommy/Daddy for precious angel baby children, you fucking monster?! How can you sit there and enjoy yourself when you could be taking care of your non-existent children?! it's so selfish of you! especially when your children are completely hypothetical!"
  ​
  Person doesn't have kids but stays at home because they're financially cared for and the one caring for them is perfectly happy to financially take care of them without asking for anything?  
  "you lazy piece of selfish shit" >
  
  My wife has a friend who criticizes her and makes fun of her for staying home. Tonight we were talking about the most recent drama between them and my wife said (as close as I remember): "Fuck it, I like being the one who decides what I'm going to do every day." Can't say I blame her :) >
  
  Couldn't have said it better, and when people consider having children one of the parents need to be housewife/husband, otherwise you're both trying to do everything outside of work hours, it's stressful, causes bitterness and a dirty household and it reflects on your work because everything falls behind, when one person works to provide money and one person is free to maintain the home, it just makes for a less stressful, cleaner and happier household >
  
  Take my downvote. 
  Im proud as fuck of my wife. She runs the house(I just make money), keeps the kids together, cooks 2-3 times a week and cleans way more than I think she should(I actively try to stop her sometimes because she'll run herself ragged if I don't on occasion). When I bring food to work and someone comments on it that it looks/smells good. "Thanks my wife made it, she's an awesome cook". She crocheted me a wool hat I can wear at work and on more than one occasion people have commented on and been amazed by it. A couple even asking how much she would charge to have one made.
  My wife is an amazing woman who happens to be a housewife. >
  
  I mean I don’t judge people who choose to stay home, I mean I constantly tell my partner I want to be a househusband haha
  I think they cop flack because 1. People are jealous, and 2. Some of them complain about it i.e. a friend of mine who grizzle’s that she has to cook every night and iron her husbands shirts…like isn’t that what you signed up for?
  I also have to admit I have other friends who are housewives/husbands and there is a very obvious power imbalance in their relationship which they don’t like and which makes me uncomfortable to witness. >
  
  It’s my dream to be a househusband. >
  
  SaH dad here. The internal struggle is real. Even my family (mom, dad, brothers) doesn’t approve of it and make me feel bad about not earning an income in a traditional way. >
  
  Who says it is? >
  
  The problem of been a house wife/husband is that you're economically depend on someone else. If you get divorced, you're screwed, no one is going to hire you with a big gap in your resume, specially if you never exercised your career. >
  
  I don’t think there is anything wrong with being a housewife/husband. I just think that in the current economic environment, where living standards are based on two incomes, it is a bit of a privileged position to be in. Suggesting a desire to be a housewife/husband is mostly seen as suggesting a desire to date someone wealthy enough to support your desired lifestyle rather than being willing to earn it yourself. >
  
  It's all nice until you get divorced but don't get any financial support after the divorce and you have no/outdated work experience. Opinions online come from from different countries with different divorce laws. >
  
  It certainly shouldn't be shameful to be a housewife, however I don't support the idea of house husband and perhaps I'm being too traditional but I just cannot support that.
  Generally, couples are happier when the wife keeps the home and the husband is the breadwinner but society today largely has driven this to not be financially viable. My partner works a good job and is still studying, I make decent money despite no higher education and we could definitely survive comfortably on it and as such, I've made it clear to her that I'd never expect her to work but I am also not opposed.
  Growing up, my parents couldn't afford such an arrangement and my mother always worked, even when having me she worked as a childminder to keep earning and always worked her hours around myself and my brother. However as I say, if it's financially viable, I'd be happy to be the sole breadwinner. 
  One reason I oppose house husbands is because of the intricacies involved when it comes to building a family. This is a period when the wife cannot work and the husband needs to be able to provide. If he has been a house husband for some years, it makes the situation that much more difficult. Granted, the couple could have savings, be entitled to paid maternity leave etc, but I do not come from an environment where such things were an option so have been conditioned another way, with different beliefs. There is also other reasons however I believe a man should work on a broader scale, but I shan't delve into them here.
  Unfortunately, modern society has made people believe it is shameful to be a housewife. The feminism movement and influential male figures have led women to believe they must work so they can be independent and successful without a man and led men to believe that women are all gold diggers that wanna spend all your money and not work yourself. Unfortunately, generally speaking, people profit from division, not the people, just the invidiuals at the top end of society. Enforcing these views on people is just another example of how in recent decades, the nuclear family is being discouraged or destroyed. 
  If you're in a relationship, able to live under this arrangement and both in agreement, go for it. My partner recently told me she's unhappy with her job and just wants to stay home and paint all day and raise a family. While it's not perfectly viable right now, I vowed to make that her reality because the bottom line is, my happiness comes from her happiness. If I can provide for us and she keeps the home and ensures I come to a cooked meal each night, I see no issue. I suggested perhaps monetising her hobbies because she is generally a very ambitious person, a person that seeks constant challenge, but it's not about the money.
  Do forgive me for rambling and going on tangents! >
  
  Some people are unable to work due to illness or other reasons, it’s perfectly okay to be a stay at home partner, regardless of what the clown circus thinks on the matter >
  
  Being a housewife/husband is only problematic when society expects it from you. When it’s your own decision then by all means. >
  
  My best friend since childhood, due to some disability is a defacto house husband. He's very good at it and his wife makes good money. They have no kids and honestly, I'd take his disability to have the life he lives. BUT it's crushing his ego which is ruining his marriage. He wrote me off a few years ago. Said I "disrespected him in front of his wife". The only thing I can think of is that she said something to him that I said to him in private. She arrived at that conclusion on her own, which is not hard to do.
  When he told me they were in counseling I honestly felt real happy for him and then he started trashing the whole process and my heart sank. But yeah, it all comes back to his fragile male ego and not being able to handle being a househusband. >
  
  Get off your ass and get a job you bum. >
  
  It's being frowned upon and considered shameful by the feminists and woke leftists. Of course it's better to slave away for a corporation/boss which/who doen't give two s***ts about you than taking care and raising your own blood! Silly women who prefer and can afford the company of their own offspring. >
  
  There is a direct correlation with women in the workforce and successful societies. A 23 year that got lucky to find someone to take care of them is not respectable.  I find it ridiculous the "eat the rich" crowd doesn't see the problem with housewives. The taxes they don't pay is everyone else's burden. >
  
  Where do you find these correlations? What do these societies do with the children? I’ve subbed in daycares and I have decided to stay home with my children as a result. I don’t know how anyone affords children if one of the parents doesn’t stay home. >
  
  Female labor force participation stats show the most powerful countries generally have the highest female labor. The countries at the bottom are middle eastern countries where women aren't allowed to work. >
  
  Househusband yes, housewife no. >
  
  I’m in a wheelchair wouldnt it make more sense for me to be a house husband? >
  
  i feel ashamed that i have to be a housewife because i'm unable to work, but that's really more an issue of america hating disabled people. >
  
  I’m disabled too I feel your pain. Society tells me I should work that’s it’s the honorable thing to do but I just can’t. >
  
  😱 what types of disabilities would cause Americans to expect a person who has said disabilities to work ?? >
  
  I’m British but most people lol >
  
  Ah, so am I ☺️ - you spelt honourable the American way so I assumed you were from there. Sorry about that. 
  I am sorry people have made you feel that way. I honestly can’t imagine why - I always thought the UK does a pretty good job at promoting inclusion and protecting the rights of the most vulnerable people in society. 
  I hope you can cut off the horrible people who make you feel in any way less than because of your condition. >
  
  The ability to take care of a house is kind of genetically implied. If you lacked that gene, chances are you wouldn't have been able to reproduce successfully at some point, right?
  Being able to dominate a career is way more impressive. If you want to be impressive, build a business (that is not you being victim to a pyramid scheme) out of your home. >
  
  Why is the goal to be impressive? >
  
  Idk ask the OP. >
  
  For me....I prefer my wife to work and earn money together.
  Yes, the time with the kid may be less, but you can save up money. 
  May be able to buy them a flat when they grown up, or at least don't need them to support us when we get old....it is a great financial relief.
  Or, if my kid suck at public exam, at least i have money to send him elsewhere to have a second chance, and i want him to leave this stupid country as well, all of the above things need money. 
  Especially in this era.....a life without a house is god damn painful......
  Quiet the opposite, i am sick of people always say how it is easy to just work a fulltime job, and over glorify the housewife / househusband. 
  Yes, ofcourses, having someone in the house to take care of thing is great, I would like my wife to do so, but only if i am a billionaire. It sucks, but it is sometimes reality >
  
  It shouldn’t be, but in the context of culture it often times is. 
  The 1950’s had arguably the best model. The husband worked, and the wife stayed at home and tended to those things.
  The husband’s mentality was to provide for his family and to provide protection and security for them. 
  This has changed drastically since then. For one, men don’t have the same sense of duty and responsibility that they used to. And women are trying to take on the roles men have traditionally played. 
  Obviously, there’s a significant amount of things that can be argued here. Women and men both ought to be able to pursue their interests. But the pursuit of those interests doesn’t come without a cost of sorts. 
  I’m of the belief that men and women both should work while having a family if children is what they desire. And it should be no question that each party works in the case of no children and have things that belong to them for a lot of mental reasons. It should be done as a team effort and each party takes turns carrying the load. 
  But as a man, I naturally believe the responsibility of the future for my family rests on my shoulders. If something goes wrong, I want the blame. 
  Bottom line, people who don’t want to improve themselves and contribute in some facet to the world… I question their meaning of life.