comment: >
  
  This will be a good opportunity on how wonderfull an Anachist country works. Lots of people saying over the years how wonderfull Anarchy will be - with no one to tell you what to do, no laws, no tax and no one to enforce anything. I mean they may well be on to something and an an odered, civil democracy for example is not the right way and everyone will get along great. Or they may be talking utter shit and need to be cancelled? Lets wait and see.
context: Spirals towards? It’s a bit late for that with gangs controlling the streets and police afraid to challenge them. >
  
  Is there even a police force, when there is no state or government to pay their salaries? >
  
  Ah, you see they just avoid that salary sillyness by extorting people on the street for pay or by getting paid by gangs >
  
  So it sounds like they are just now another gang rather than being actual police. >
  
  Oh yeah no the “police” there are police in name only. >
  
  So what does that mean for Sting and The Police? >
  
  Sting n' the Gang! >
  
  Kool has left the chat >
  
  Another country hitting the dust with no functioning government.  I wonder how neighboring Dominican Republic is going to handle this situation. >
  
  Dominican here, there are currently approximately 10,000 soldier in our border right now. >
  
  I've been to the DR before, how the fuck is it so much more put together than Haiti? >
  
  This is a red herring. Hati has been a failed state since day one and it has nothing to do with debt from France and everything to do with the people of Haiti. 
  Let's not forget that the Haitians immediately killed all whites, natives and mulattos after their revolution. Then killed their own leaders, causing Haiti to devolve into civil war. Once that was resolved the first thing Haiti did was invade the Dominican Republic, and when they tried to commit genocide there, the Haitians were defeated.
  Haiti hasn't had a stable government in it's history. >
  
  So, basically, you are saying Haitians are their own worst enemy? >
  
  Always have been. Read the history of the island. It's fucking nightmare fuel. Especially that early history that defines a nation. 1800-1830ish. >
  
  Yes, especially pre revolution. >
  
  It was far worse post revolution. >
  
  ....again. >
  
  This is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 83%. (I'm a bot)
  
  
  The last 10 remaining senators in Haiti's parliament have officially left office, leaving the country without a single democratically elected government official.
  Haiti - which is currently engulfed in gang violence and the worst malnutrition crisis in decades - now officially has no functioning parliament as the senators were the last of 30 to remain in office after successive failed efforts to hold elections.
  At a summit in Mexico City on Tuesday Joe Biden was expected to lobby Justin Trudeau for Canada to lead an international security force - in part to help stem the flow of Haitian refugees reaching the US. Activists in Haiti have warned that any foreign force would be the latest in a long history of miscalculated foreign intervention attempts in the Caribbean.
  
  
  Extended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Haiti^#1 office^#2 Haitian^#3 elections^#4 last^#5 >
  
  Then “activists” should fucking do something >
  
  This whole "activists say" things is so dumb. Literally anyone can say they're an activist, they don't have to be elected by anyone or have any legitimacy at all. And usually they're gonna come from the wealthiest most educated segment cause that way journalists don't have to know another language. >
  
  Uh, we had a slight government malfunction, but uh... everything's perfectly all right now. We're fine. We're all fine here now, thank you. How are you? >
  
  Aren't you a little short for an NGO? >
  
  Isn’t this the second for third time Haiti has become a failed state in the last 20 years? >
  
  Yes it's a conga line of failed states. Haitian corruption makes Russia look like Chuckie Cheese >
  
  Never underestimate the corruption of a Chuckie Cheese. >
  
  Shit’s embedded into the carpets and every pore of plastic surfaces in that place.
  It’s like someone took the balls in a McDonalds ball playpen and used them to build everything made of plastic.
  And then they took all of the lost and found clothes at an elementary school, and made threads out of them without washing, and then made the carpet out of the resulting lint. >
  
  Haiti is a sad story, really. Feel sorry for their ordinary citizens who probably don't want any part of this. >
  
  Posting about it even vaguely on Reddit is probably really stupid. Never know who is reading. >
  
  There is no way any criminal in Haiti reading this could possibly glean any identifying info from this comment. 
  "Somewhere in the country a person is going to be paid some money at some unknown future date" is not actionable. >
  
  Dude has pictures of his license plate, a very identifiable classic vehicle and location posts all over that thing. I could find out where he lives in 3 minutes >
  
  Fair enough, I didn't do much digging. That's way too much personal info and a lawyer should probably know better. I should have checked more before being cheeky. >
  
  
  At a summit in Mexico City on Tuesday Joe Biden was expected to lobby Justin Trudeau for Canada to lead an international security force – in part to help stem the flow of Haitian refugees reaching the US.
  
  Why not?
  
  Activists in Haiti have warned that any foreign force would be the latest in a long history of miscalculated foreign intervention attempts in the Caribbean.
  
  How could it get worse? >
  
  Yes I was curious on that point. How would they propose the crisis be resolved? >
  
  (They don’t have one) >
  
  Haiti seems like it's constantly spiraling towards anarchy >
  
  There was a time when Haiti was the first nation of freed slaves (they violently rebelled and drove out their French, white landowners).
  Haiti was on shaky ground for a while, nobody would trade with them, because of the stigma I guess. It was the early 1800s, you see. Finally, France agreed to trade with them for basically the worst war reparations agreement until the Versailles treaty. And this burden was imposed on a small agrarian island nation, not an industrial and cultural juggernaut!
  With the Monroe Doctrine the US took a greater interest in the affairs of its neighbors. The US invaded Haiti during WW1 because a New York bank literally asked the President to do it. 
  There's an awful lot I'm glossing over, like one Dominican Republic dictators purge of Haitians from his country (the share a land border). Haitians deserve reparations and all the levers of power are turned against it in my small opinion. >
  
  South Korea was one of the poorest countries in the world in 1960. South Korea was poorer than Haiti in 1960. source Today South Korea is a developed country, one of the wealthiest countries on Earth.  Haiti's poverty is due to the corruption and incompetence of the Haitian government over the past 60 years. >
  
  Korea is extremely corrupt… >
  
  Yep, the former president and admin let a bunch of schoolchildren drown for absolutely no fucking reason and for that and a bunch of cult shit, she got a 25 year jail sentence only to be immediately pardoned by her successor. That isn’t normal. >
  
  I quick read of the Wikipedia about South Korea would have clues them in about the corruption in that country and that it isn’t just k-pop. >
  
  No one bothers to learn anything about Asian countries except what they can use to push stupid “model minority” nonsense, nobody here is going to read that unfortunately >
  
  You nailed it. They also had programs from the government here in the US to help them get assistance and established as refugees…I am have no issue with this by the way…that helped a lot of people get established here. Asia is a complex continent, filled with a rich history that very few people really dive into unless they need a narrative to establish. >
  
  I almost want to go back to undergrad to learn more, it’s frustrating to know so little about such a massive chunk of the world. I hope this isn’t annoying, but do you know of any good history books or documentaries to gain at least a passing knowledge of modern Asian politics? >
  
  If you find some, let me know!!! Most of what I know is Wikipedia level knowledge and from people I knew from several countries in Asia. >
  
  My dad supported a orphanage in haiti and rebuilt it during the earthquake, it’s was basically ran by tyrants and gangs rampant, literally had to hide himself under cargo to no be seen when driving around (almost like a movie). Don’t think this is going to change much. Could be wrong tho >
  
  Unpopular opinion, but democracy doesn't work in the complete and total absence of any sort of civil institutions.  You can't just call an election, magically fix all your problems, and have a government that is viewed as legitimate.  Democracy is about so much more than just an election. without civil institutions you end up with an "electocracy" - which can be very dangerous.
  Idk what the solution for Haiti is, but calling new elections isn't going to fix anything. >
  
  Imma be honest, a strong man where the USG pulls the strings ala Batista wouldn't be the worse thing for Haiti. >
  
  Yeah...that may work in the short term, but it's ultimately an exercise in can kicking. Eventually absolute power corrupts absolutely and you end up back at square one. >
  
  Corrupt peace is better than widespread violence. That's kind of how government was invented. >
  
  Tell that to the Iranians now or the Americans in 1775.
  Sure, there was oppression, but society was more or less stable. >
  
  Modernity is weird. I can book a flight there. A nice hotel. Eat at a restaurant. Probably even do it safely if I spend enough.
  All in a failed state. >
  
  Nothing really weird about that, neither is it modern, back in the days before UN even certified states and legal norms you could do a lot more than that with money. >
  
  Spiral toward, or continue to wallow in? >
  
  There was a government? >
  
  No. They were all in the US. The presidential massacre just put more eyes on it. The Haitian government has been extraordinarily corrupt and has little to no regard for the actual Haitian people >
  
  Been this way since Papa Doc and the Tonton Maccu >
  
  Seeing as how it went every time the UN or someone stepped in, I'm wondering if it's better to just let Haiti try and fix itself at this point. >
  
  I have the feeling that inevitably a warlord or strongman will emerge, but that it will mean nothing good for the people at large >
  
  That’s pretty much the organic evolution.  Strongest gangsters become Warlords, then the strongest one becomes a dictator with the rest of the warlords forming a supporting coalition.  Eventually if they’re lucky, they form some kind of democracy and just run the country from behind the scenes by controlling the money. >
  
  technically that was how the concept of government came about. >
  
  Yep. I read it somewhere here that even gangs and cartels will eventually lower their violent tendencies as they gain power. They can't rule when chaos reigns. That's how governments become "legitimate" >
  
  "Toward anarchy"?  Dude... that place has zero laws right now.  I think it has already reached total anarchy. >
  
  
  Activists in Haiti have warned that any foreign force would be the latest in a long history of miscalculated foreign intervention attempts in the Caribbean.
  
  “Okay then what’s your solution?”
  “Activists”: “Uhhh well you see uhhhh, wow look at the time I have to get going!” >
  
  They are activists for the gangs not the Haitian people. >
  
  Almost a failed state? Already is
  
  there is no control of territory or the use of physical force: gangs are in control of most of the capital
  there is no legitimate government, no collective decision making
  there is no governmental provided services
  they don’t interact internationally at all >
  
  Surprisingly, the public service continues to function in some respects so I don't agree with your second last point. >
  
  I feel terrible for Haiti, but there’s really nothing we can do. Every time the international community has intervened in Haiti it has only made things worse. Perhaps we need to just leave them alone to sort things out this time. >
  
  It makes things worse and the government would suddenly come back to hijack aid to profit off of it leaving the Haitian citizens with nothing they couldn’t be able to purchase from the government via the black market >
  
  True. Who would foreign government officials even meet with? These is no government there. Lol >
  
  Libertarian heaven >
  
  Incredible read thanks OP! >
  
  When anyone pines for "small government" or complains that governments are useless I tell them to move to Haiti. See how wonderful life is with no government at all. No taxes. No regulations. Complete freedom for everyone. It should be a conservative's dream. It is exactly what they are striving for. >
  
  This is how I feel. Anyone who is an anarchist or extreme libertarian should move to Haiti or Somalia. 
  Somalia was anarchic from 1996-2006 and from 2006-now they are extremely libertarian. >
  
  Somalia has always been extremely libertarian.
  For thousands of years they were in contact with Egypt, Arabia, Greeks, Phoenicians, Israelis, Rome, Ethiopia, etc. And they rejected writing, under the theory it would only be used to oppress them. They only came around, reluctantly, to using writing in the 18th century.  And even today there's still debate about what the writing system should be. >
  
  That seems like an illogical conclusion rather than a convincing argument that Somalia has been libertarian. I mean I agree that believing the mere practice of writing as a means of oppression is absurd but I don't see this being tied to any political framework. >
  
  Nah Haiti is just a giant rollercoaster where it jerks up and down rapidly >
  
  It goes up? It seems to just go down and then more down. >
  
  Maybe brief times of straightish, but mostly down >
  
  Hate to be "that" person, but...
  
  Last 10 remaining senators leave office, with gangs controlling much of capital, a malnutrition crisis and a cholera outbreak
  
  ...is not "anarchy" so much as nihilistic abandon. But now I'm being semantically petty. I really do feel for the Haitian people, and I hope they find a way out of this. >
  
  I think their terms just ended and without an election eventually there's no one left. >
  
  Maybe new version of We are the World is in order? >
  
  Let them figure it out themselves. They don't want our help and we shouldn't foist it upon them either. >
  
  They’re going to complain that things are fucked but they also won’t do anything about it. >
  
  Back in the 90s, Haiti was the epicenter of the AIDS pandemic or at least thought to be by many. There isn't a fucking thing in that county that isn't corrupt...very sad and hopeless situation. >
  
  Partners in Health is a fantastic NGO in Haiti run by primarily Haitians.  So, there is one "fucking thing" in Haiti that isn't corrupt. >
  
  Tbh it sounds like one of the gangs needs to centralize power and form a new government. >
  
  Barbecue has been attempting that >
  
  2023 sure isn't here to disappoint last 2 years. >
  
  This is just how Haiti has been for decades. >
  
  I swear comments like OP’s are always upvoted like the world hasn’t had terrible events happening all throughout human history lol >
  
  We live in the most peaceful and prosperous times of human history. People just surround themselves with bad news. >
  
  Wonder what happens if we just leave them alone... >
  
  Starvation and a refugee crisis. 
  Though anthropologically watching to see how society re-emerges would be interesting. 
  The gangs would be the states. >
  
  Kings are just descendants of gangsters who kept their land and wealth.