comment: >
  
  It sounds as if you’re absorbing right wing agitprop. I’ve never heard of what you’re talking about. It’s homophobic propaganda only mega right wing nutters will care about.
context: I don't think DeSantis has a choice. He's the republican darling currently but that shine doesn't last. If he doesn't shoot his shot now he risks sinking into irrelevance similar to Christie and walker and I think he knows it. My understanding is that he's term limited too so his opportunities to make waves will dry up. Apparently there's a growing problem in FL regarding rising insurance costs that may come back to him if left alone long enough. >
  
  Yeah this is the only answer. You take your opportunity before it’s gone. He just won re-election in an absolute landslide so he’s at his peak right now. The only obstacle in his way is Trump and it’s too early to tell who will come out on top which is an advantage for DeSantis since Trump is an incumbent with 100% name recognition. The fact that DeSantis is the defacto #2 in the polls and in some polls it’s very tight, shows he needs to run whether he wants to or not. >
  
  Yeah, ask Jerry Brown about that. He was so hot in 1976 as a new kind of Democrat he could have won the nomination, but he dithered about running  since he wasn’t 40 yet so he decided to wait. His rep went down and he spent the next 30 years unsuccessfully trying. >
  
  I know several Trump voters and they all want Desantis over Trump because:
  “Trump has too many haters. He lost to Biden.”
  The guy who told me that attended a recent Trump rally. He was die hard. WAS. >
  
  My very conservative Evangelical family members are starting to sour on Trump too. Some of them used to talk about him like he was the Second Coming (which they likely believed he would usher in). He's definitely past his expiration date. >
  
  Crazy to see Trump going from someone directly comparable to Jesus and is definitely chosen by god and probably even more than that to meh…. >
  
  Most of the people I know who are/were Trump diehards still have massive respect for the guy. They just think his time has passed and DeSantis would be just as effective. A lot of these True Believer types don't even think his star has faded, but rather than Dems damaged him so badly that he'd either lose or have a much tougher path to victory compared to '20 or even '16. He's still Jesus-tier for a lot of people, it's just that RDS is fresh and they don't have to cover his uh... missteps. >
  
  I think the VP roll has been promised to MTG which would explain her efforts to normalize herself. >
  
  She's still a freaking dingbat >
  
  No argument here. She’s Sarah Palin 2.0. >
  
  2.0 would be a slight upgrade, more like .002 >
  
  Can Boebert be Sarah Palin .22 cuz of her dumb gun restaurant? >
  
  Makes sense to me. The Deuce Deuce could also stand for the diarrhea you got eating there too. “I went on down to pew pews and got the double deuces.” >
  
  I’d argue that it’s a call of crowded vs not. In a crowded primary the rar right will go for him. Folks that are looking to move on will split amount the rest and the Desantis doesn’t look good at all. If there are three or four contenders? Well, I live in a real red spot but not many care about Trump as anything but an old hero. They love Desantis. >
  
  He should acquire guts to stand up to Trump and announce he is running; that is, if he ever expects to run a respectable race. >
  
  He should run.  I think the Non-Trump GOP voters will coalesce around him because they view him as the best chance to win and will largely ignore the also-rans who have announced or are expected to announce because of what happened in 2016 where the split vote allowed Trump to win with well under 50% support.
  I also think the reflexive negative reaction to any negative comment towards Trump will be mitigated by the fact that the people on stage will not attack him for what his supporters view as unfair reasons.  Rather, they will make the argument about who can win the next general election and, all things being equal, I would rather support a candidate who won his last race by 19 points than one who is going to endlessly talk about the election he lost.  By the next election, no one will want to hear about how the election was stolen from Trump, they will want to hear what is he going to do in the next 4 years and he has shown no signs of pivoting to that message. >
  
  Adding on to your second point I also fully expect Trump to continue attacking DeSantis for what his supporters view as bad reasons which will further erode Trump's support. >
  
  His best shot is 2024, and bluntly it is going to depend on China and Russia.  If Biden's strategy on Russia hold, there is likely to be a significant break in that country that the Democrats can point to as the US doing something major.  Essentially there are some indicators that all this pressure on Putin's Ukraine adventure, coupled with his illness, is causing serious issues in Russia that may lead to a breaking point.  If the Democrats/Biden break Russia, then no one is winning but Biden.  
  DeSantis is going to have to run, but he's making himself hated by the left.  That's not a great strategy as the Democrats have won the popular vote for president in every election except for one since 92.  That's not to say he won't get all the GOP voters, but there aren't enough of them to win unless the Democrats are not showing up. >
  
  I think he is making himself hated by a very specific portion of the left (the PC, SJW crowd) in a manner that has not reached the point of turning off older and more practical democrats.  You don't win FL by 19 points by only getting GOP voters.  Frankly, I think his across the aisle message is perfectly tailored to the 30-45 year old millennial democrat that has a stable job, maybe a kid or two, a house, and is no longer looking to blow up the system that they are doing quite well in which is ultimately what drove them away from Trump.
  For example, most of his actions regarding education have been wildly mischaracterized by the press but the reality is that most parents don't think their Kindergarten, First, or Second Grader should be taking any form of sex education regardless of how its taught and were probably shocked to find out that it was even being taught that young when they likely took sex ed in fifth or sixth grade at the earliest.  Further, most parents are inherently wary of any rule that allows or instructs the school to willfully withhold relevant and pertinent information from the parent regarding their child.  DeSantis is really good at putting together policies that enrage the far left, delight the far right, and still come across as common sense to the politically ambivalence.  
  Now, one could argue that as the cultural pendulum has swung so mightily to the left in recent years that it is easy to find areas where they have overreached and craft such policies but that is a different discussion.  For example, DeSantis might win all 50 states if the far left doesn't settle down with this 'minor-attracted person' nonsense as if most people don't think that pedophiles should be stigmatized or think that we should be doing less about this problem or it can simply serve the purpose of making people think that there is a growing trend of pedophilia that the left wants to coddle and the right wants to quash.  Where do you think the people with young kids come down on that issue?  I am getting off topic, but did the person who invented the term 'minor-attracted person' fall for a joke on a right-wing parody account? >
  
  It sounds as if you’re absorbing right wing agitprop. I’ve never heard of what you’re talking about. It’s homophobic propaganda only mega right wing nutters will care about. >
  
  The fact you use terms like "right wing agitprop" means that you're very out of step with the mainstream and so do not have a good perspective here.  "Agitprop" in particular is a very big tell for left wing radical activists. >
  
  Ugh I wish I was a left wing radical activist. Unfortunately I’m too bland, comfortable and enjoy capitalism. I’m an Elizabeth Warren kind of gal. If that’s the radical left then you must live a frightened life.
  Also sick ass ad hominem. Who tf is being compassionate to pedophiles? It’s such a red herring it’s almost funny, if not so tragic. >
  
  2024 definitely is his best shot. Who knows if his popularity/fame holds until 2028. Like you said, his claim to fame is his anti lockdown policy, and as covid fades from the public’s memory, he doesn’t really have much else to stand on. “Vote for Ron because he kept Florida open 8 years ago!” doesn‘t sound convincing.  His only other thing is being “anti woke”, but pretty much every other Republican has the same position. Plus, he’s term limited as governor after 2026. I honestly don’t see his momentum lasting until 2028. >
  
  If he wants to go for it, this is his moment. You never know what's going to happen until 2028. I think he wouldn't have a problem right now getting most of the vote that doesn't go to Trump, regardless of how crowded the primary is. >
  
  He has to run in 2024 since, as you said, 2028 will be far too late.  His primary strength is that he has Trump's policy positions without Trump's toxic personality and behaviors.  While there will be a small faction of Trump diehards I think the fact Trump lost several states in 2020 that he had won in 2016 shows that in the critical locations DeSantis has the edge where it matters. >
  
  DeSantis is smarter than Trump, but doesn't have Trump's charisma.  and he won't have the same affect on poor whites because he never had a TV show.  After this Trump congress fails in the next 2 years, the republicans will be a permanent t minority. >
  
  If he wants to be president, he should run... not saying he will win, but I don't think he'll have better chances 4 or 8 years from now. Right now, he has a lot of star power from treating covid how majority of republicans wanted the leadership to treat the situation. Deaths were relatively low per-capita and the economy flourished by not restricting businesses and travel. We don't know what could happen in that time and a new star may rise for republicans. So now can he beat trump? He can attack trump on the mismanagement of the covid crisis from the republican point of view.
  1) he kept fauci on the job (literally after being famous from saying "you're fired")
  2) delayed the closing of the boarders to Chinese visitors  
  3) Delaying crucial information to the US citizens (this one is bipartisan) 
  4) allowed the state lockdowns and overreaching policies under his administration (yes, of course Trump will push this on the local politicians, but it's still a point to be argued) >
  
  
  Deaths were relatively low per-capita and the economy flourished by not restricting businesses and travel.
  
  Just for the record, Florida was number 37 in terms of death rate at 392 per 100,000. California was number 12 at 250. Even New York beat Florida despite having NYC and being the epicenter of the initial outbreak at 388 dead per 100,000. Source.
  It gets significantly worse for Florida if you only count deaths after the vaccine was released.
  Florida kept open, but if least deaths was the goal, Florida did not do well and was on the bottom, despite its climate advantages. >
  
  Okay… well, having similar outcomes of other states like NY and NJ while keeping businesses open and mandates to a minimum is a Republican talking point he can run on >
  
  Like I said, NYC (and NJ as a result) were the absolute epicenter of the viruses first wave that hit, are literally the densest urban areas in America, have an unfavorable climate, and still beat Florida. And again, it gets significantly worse for Florida if you start the death count on the day the vaccine becomes available to the public.
  Florida did not do well in terms of death rate, despite its climate advantages. They are in the bottom along with most of the rest of the south. You can praise Florida for keeping open, but it did in fact come with a price paid in human lives. 
  Limiting transmission before the vaccine, and then strongly encouraging the vaccine once it was available was in fact an effective way to keep more citizens alive. That might not be your primary concern, but if it was, Florida did bad. >
  
  My point is republican talking points that can win an election over trump, not the reasons why one state did better or worse than the other. True or false, in the republican point of view (key words here) Desantis did well and needs to ride his current star-power as the best shot to presidency. >
  
  I think Trump should start his own party of white nationalism. That way 30% of the Republicans will vote for him and the rest will vote for an actual republican maybe. Oh I forgot there is no such thing anymore. Just a bunch of middle-aged white men wanting to look in children's pants to make sure they are who they say they are. A bunch of old white men that still believe it's okay to marry a 14-year-old girl and get her pregnant as she's mature enough for that. That same girl though if she comes out as trans or as gay and she's not mature enough for that. You all seem to think it's a damn choice. Trust me, she's a lot more mature to handle that versus being a mother. Have you ever watched 16 and pregnant? >
  
  Young presidents isn't really a republican thing in the modern era.  DeSantis is too young and Trump is too old.  
  Ted Cruz might be the "return to normalcy" that seems popular with voters.   Also the first Hispanic president being republican would be a nice bridge away from the identity politics of today. >
  
  Cruz was runner-up in 2016 but is the butt of a lot of jokes. Not sure how much mainstream appeal he has. 
  What are your thoughts on Marco Rubio? He's also from a populous state, also Hispanic, came in third in 2016, and arguably has a more impressive resume as a senator. >
  
  
  and arguably has a more impressive resume as a senator.
  
  Citation needed. They're both useless. >
  
  I'm a Democrat who passionately hates the GOP but I don't have to pretend that GOP politicians are less accomplished than they are in order to justify my dislike. They have serious power. Power isn't useless. >
  
  Please tell me what Marco Rubio's impressive legislative accomplishments are. Was it his support for immigration reform with a pathway to citizenship? Or was it his total reversal of that?
  What has he done to make him so impressive? >
  
  Yeah. So this is my problem with Rubio. Well one of them.  Unlike say that Marshall Applewhite knock off Rick Scott, Marco Rubio, at least at one point had something there. Which he abandonnwd >
  
  He should run and split the Republican vote because it will be very very funny and Republican losses are necessary for the continued survival of the human race. Let them fight! >
  
  That's... absolutely not how elections in the U.S. work. >
  
  Usually, no, but the toxicity in the GOP right now is very high. If DeSantis runs, the primary will inevitably get very ugly and whoever wins the nomination will come out of it poisoned. And that's ignoring the possibility that DeSantis wins and Trump does his "rigged election" bit or runs 3rd party. >
  
  This is a nice, logical, coherent counterargument. Take my up-vote.
  The only flaw I see with the first part of your argument is, 2016 was highly toxic, produced a whole "never Trump" schism, the guy who won the primary talked about his dick size during a national debate and was caught on tape bragging about sexual assault, had numerous women come forward about sexual assault, publicly bragged about affairs he had during his first marriage, broke his promise to share his tax returns if he won the primary, and he still won the GOP primary and got elected president by conservatives and many moderates.
  The idea that a candidate might get too poisoned during the primary to get elected in the general has been firmly disproven. I believe we are too partisan to let something like toxicity in our candidate stop us from voting against the other party.
  Edit to add: The part about the risk of a third-party candidacy by Trump, however, that I agree with. You're right, I sold u/Darth-Shittyist's comment short. >
  
  When I said toxicity, I mainly meant toxic infighting within the party. So, like, what we saw the week of the Speaker vote. The factions within the GOP are becoming completely incompatible, and an ugly primary between those factions will split the party. So, it's less "Oh, Trump said this terrible thing, I can't stomach him now," and more "Fuck Desantis, he won the primary unfairly, I'm definitely not voting for him." Sort of like the infighting that occurred on the left between Sanders and Clinton supporters, but without the whole "fine, we'll do the right thing and get behind the candidate" in the end.
  It could be wishful thinking on my part, but I just don't see any world where a Trump/DeSantis primary ends with the Republicans winning the presidency. >
  
  Agreed. I reread your first comment and realized I hadn't addressed this point in your argument, and edited my comment. Then I refreshed and saw your follow-up. We are on the same page. You CMV. 😃 >
  
  I think the last thing Republicans want is a split party. Neither Cruz or DeSantis will pit themselves against Trump. Both are agreeable men that rather work along side Trump >
  
  I would argue that they're already a split party; nearly every GOP running for congress or governor in the last election was clearly defined by whether they were with Trump or against Trump. And there are several Republicans who have gone on record observing that Trump-backed candidates didn't do well or stating outright that they saw Trump as a primary reason for the poor results. Finally, there were plenty of Never-Trump Republicans during the 2016 primaries, but you didn't see serious Never-Cruz or Never-DeSantis movements. Trump is a highly divisive figure, and the division has already been sown. >
  
  No you're wrong. 2016 gop republcians is split party. You dont understand or you haven't took time to research it, but Trump exploded an already growing grass root movement. The overwhelming majority of republican voters hopped on that movenment long before trump but the party couldn't deliver a populous candidate until Trump. You only see things from one side. You don't know how to discern through the bullshit of both sides. >
  
  LOL, arrogant much?
  Certainly I'm biased against Trump and want to see him fail to regain the reins of power. But I follow the news and have seen a sea change in the support he's received, for example noting how his endorsement didn't help as many people get elected/re-elected as it used to.
  Now if you've got facts or sound theories to cite that suggest the facts and fact-based theory I've outlined are inaccurate I'd enjoy reading them. 
  But your tl;dr amounts to, "nuh-uh, you're just not as smart as me so you can't see what I see" which is not only arrogant but also anti-intellectual, which is a sad combination. >
  
  You claim the republican party is split and trump is divisive but you said, "last election was clearly defined by wether they were trump or against trump", if trump hadn't united the gop and wasn't the clear gop leader then why would you or the news say something like that? Sounds like from whatever your repeated that from is the origin of division. Same source as for the desantis president run which was fabricated to create an imaginary split. Facts are he has made no indication to run. In fact no other candidate is running against trump. Why would these candidates even go through trump if he wasn't the clear gop leader? Are you saying the trump backed candidates didn't do well because of trump or a split in the party? To say trump is the primary reason they failed is disingenuous to the voters who more than likely don't participate in tribalism. Think about it, if there was a split in the party or if he was dividing the republican party then their would be no trump backed candidates at all. Remember desantis is a trump backed candidate but we are gonna sit here and believe he'll pit himself against they guy that helped him get elected. If your theory was true then trump would of never won majority of the vote in the primaries and we wouldn't had seen the highest republican voter turnout ever last general. >
  
  You're evidence is, look this guy said trump is losing support(just speculation) and oh this guy said he thinks trump could be in trouble(more speculation) oh and this guy said desantis is just waiting for the perfect moment(not facts). Sounds like a bunch of made up gossip. Congrats. >
  
  I mean, those links cite things like polls and election results. Some of us recognize those things as data, but you can call them gossip if you want. 😁 >
  
  Hmm yeah I saw, I hope trump doesn't lose any more super accurate polls that would be some pretty juicy drama huh >
  
  That's the first time you've cited (or at least alluded to) documented facts rather than denying documented facts. That's a step in the right direction....
  The problem is, if EVERYONE is saying Trump has lost his luster, everyone from the far left to the far right, you're really kind of sticking your head in the sand if you're just kind of deciding to believe EVERYONE is wrong. 
  It would be wonderful if you could cite any source other than Trump or people who work for Trump who say that he's still firmly in control of the GOP like he used to be. If you can't, you aren't operating on facts, you're operating on faith, and I'll respect that and leave you alone. >
  
  DeSantis should definitely run, I don't think you see anyone else get in the race if he does. Only other option would be a "relative" moderate (by that I mean someone who is at least somewhat bipartisan (Thom Tillis or Todd Young, both who have no name recognition but could get into get the name recognition up). 
  Pence will always be paired with Trump and Nikki Haley is the only other viable candidate but is smart enough to sit it out and hope DeSantis wins the primary. >
  
  Nikki would make an excellent VP >
  
  Depends on who else is in the picture.  Right now it’s kinda open.  I like him, and will likely vote for him but 2024 is a ways off. >
  
  I believe a couple polls the other week had DeSantis with a double digit lead over Trump. >
  
  Sorry, but Trump is just a New York Republican. I am ready to move on to someone that knows how to use the Veto pen >
  
  being that he is far more likely to win a general than trump and  ahead of him in the polls i doubt he should endorse trump.
  The only thing that could save trump now is some kind of massive trump scandal that sucks up all the attention.
  The way to get rid of trump has always been to just ignore him and let him say nonsensical shit.. he feeds on attention. >
  
  If Trump loses the primary or gets shunned by the Repubs, he'll start his own party and take them down with him >
  
  Darth Santis should get caught doing something awful enough to sink him forever.  That would hand the nomination to Trump and kill the GOP for a generation, because the 60% - 70% of Americans who have a brain will never vote for Trump.  Ever.  We'd all rather see him and his congressional sycophants in prison for life. >
  
  This is DeSantos' moment, he needs to strike while the iron is hot. 4 years is an eternity in politics, he may never have a chance like this again. >
  
  He should throw his hat in the ring and promise to pardon Trump if elected. What’s Donald going to do to Trump that? >
  
  He should push Trump right out of the Presidential race. He is ten times more intelligent. Ten times more connected. Ten times more racist. Ten times more sexist. Ten times more dangerous. He can do ten times more damage to the constitution and ten times more damage to the integrity of the nation. Why settle for a con man reality TV show host, when you can have a real politician destroy the fabric that binds ALL of America? >
  
  He is popular and a front runner.  He would be the one forcing the others out.  Offering say Dept of Transportation Sec. job for endorsement. He just needs to be seen by Republicans as electable vs. Trump who would be too much of a risk. >
  
  It's amazing to me that all these Republicans Traitors to America still even have any support. It just reminds me that at least half of the people I see in Florida walking and driving around are brain dead idiots. >
  
  I don't think DeSantis has a choice. He's the republican darling currently but that shine doesn't last. If he doesn't shoot his shot now he risks sinking into irrelevance similar to Christie and walker and I think he knows it. My understanding is that he's term limited too so his opportunities to make waves will dry up. Apparently there's a growing problem in FL regarding rising insurance costs that may come back to him if left alone long enough. >
  
  Yeah this is the only answer. You take your opportunity before it’s gone. He just won re-election in an absolute landslide so he’s at his peak right now. The only obstacle in his way is Trump and it’s too early to tell who will come out on top which is an advantage for DeSantis since Trump is an incumbent with 100% name recognition. The fact that DeSantis is the defacto #2 in the polls and in some polls it’s very tight, shows he needs to run whether he wants to or not. >
  
  Yeah, ask Jerry Brown about that. He was so hot in 1976 as a new kind of Democrat he could have won the nomination, but he dithered about running  since he wasn’t 40 yet so he decided to wait. His rep went down and he spent the next 30 years unsuccessfully trying. >
  
  I know several Trump voters and they all want Desantis over Trump because:
  “Trump has too many haters. He lost to Biden.”
  The guy who told me that attended a recent Trump rally. He was die hard. WAS. >
  
  My very conservative Evangelical family members are starting to sour on Trump too. Some of them used to talk about him like he was the Second Coming (which they likely believed he would usher in). He's definitely past his expiration date. >
  
  Crazy to see Trump going from someone directly comparable to Jesus and is definitely chosen by god and probably even more than that to meh…. >
  
  Most of the people I know who are/were Trump diehards still have massive respect for the guy. They just think his time has passed and DeSantis would be just as effective. A lot of these True Believer types don't even think his star has faded, but rather than Dems damaged him so badly that he'd either lose or have a much tougher path to victory compared to '20 or even '16. He's still Jesus-tier for a lot of people, it's just that RDS is fresh and they don't have to cover his uh... missteps. >
  
  I think the VP roll has been promised to MTG which would explain her efforts to normalize herself. >
  
  She's still a freaking dingbat >
  
  No argument here. She’s Sarah Palin 2.0. >
  
  2.0 would be a slight upgrade, more like .002 >
  
  Can Boebert be Sarah Palin .22 cuz of her dumb gun restaurant? >
  
  Makes sense to me. The Deuce Deuce could also stand for the diarrhea you got eating there too. “I went on down to pew pews and got the double deuces.” >
  
  I’d argue that it’s a call of crowded vs not. In a crowded primary the rar right will go for him. Folks that are looking to move on will split amount the rest and the Desantis doesn’t look good at all. If there are three or four contenders? Well, I live in a real red spot but not many care about Trump as anything but an old hero. They love Desantis. >
  
  He should acquire guts to stand up to Trump and announce he is running; that is, if he ever expects to run a respectable race. >
  
  He should run.  I think the Non-Trump GOP voters will coalesce around him because they view him as the best chance to win and will largely ignore the also-rans who have announced or are expected to announce because of what happened in 2016 where the split vote allowed Trump to win with well under 50% support.
  I also think the reflexive negative reaction to any negative comment towards Trump will be mitigated by the fact that the people on stage will not attack him for what his supporters view as unfair reasons.  Rather, they will make the argument about who can win the next general election and, all things being equal, I would rather support a candidate who won his last race by 19 points than one who is going to endlessly talk about the election he lost.  By the next election, no one will want to hear about how the election was stolen from Trump, they will want to hear what is he going to do in the next 4 years and he has shown no signs of pivoting to that message. >
  
  Adding on to your second point I also fully expect Trump to continue attacking DeSantis for what his supporters view as bad reasons which will further erode Trump's support. >
  
  His best shot is 2024, and bluntly it is going to depend on China and Russia.  If Biden's strategy on Russia hold, there is likely to be a significant break in that country that the Democrats can point to as the US doing something major.  Essentially there are some indicators that all this pressure on Putin's Ukraine adventure, coupled with his illness, is causing serious issues in Russia that may lead to a breaking point.  If the Democrats/Biden break Russia, then no one is winning but Biden.  
  DeSantis is going to have to run, but he's making himself hated by the left.  That's not a great strategy as the Democrats have won the popular vote for president in every election except for one since 92.  That's not to say he won't get all the GOP voters, but there aren't enough of them to win unless the Democrats are not showing up. >
  
  I think he is making himself hated by a very specific portion of the left (the PC, SJW crowd) in a manner that has not reached the point of turning off older and more practical democrats.  You don't win FL by 19 points by only getting GOP voters.  Frankly, I think his across the aisle message is perfectly tailored to the 30-45 year old millennial democrat that has a stable job, maybe a kid or two, a house, and is no longer looking to blow up the system that they are doing quite well in which is ultimately what drove them away from Trump.
  For example, most of his actions regarding education have been wildly mischaracterized by the press but the reality is that most parents don't think their Kindergarten, First, or Second Grader should be taking any form of sex education regardless of how its taught and were probably shocked to find out that it was even being taught that young when they likely took sex ed in fifth or sixth grade at the earliest.  Further, most parents are inherently wary of any rule that allows or instructs the school to willfully withhold relevant and pertinent information from the parent regarding their child.  DeSantis is really good at putting together policies that enrage the far left, delight the far right, and still come across as common sense to the politically ambivalence.  
  Now, one could argue that as the cultural pendulum has swung so mightily to the left in recent years that it is easy to find areas where they have overreached and craft such policies but that is a different discussion.  For example, DeSantis might win all 50 states if the far left doesn't settle down with this 'minor-attracted person' nonsense as if most people don't think that pedophiles should be stigmatized or think that we should be doing less about this problem or it can simply serve the purpose of making people think that there is a growing trend of pedophilia that the left wants to coddle and the right wants to quash.  Where do you think the people with young kids come down on that issue?  I am getting off topic, but did the person who invented the term 'minor-attracted person' fall for a joke on a right-wing parody account? >
  
  It sounds as if you’re absorbing right wing agitprop. I’ve never heard of what you’re talking about. It’s homophobic propaganda only mega right wing nutters will care about. >
  
  The fact you use terms like "right wing agitprop" means that you're very out of step with the mainstream and so do not have a good perspective here.  "Agitprop" in particular is a very big tell for left wing radical activists. >
  
  Ugh I wish I was a left wing radical activist. Unfortunately I’m too bland, comfortable and enjoy capitalism. I’m an Elizabeth Warren kind of gal. If that’s the radical left then you must live a frightened life.
  Also sick ass ad hominem. Who tf is being compassionate to pedophiles? It’s such a red herring it’s almost funny, if not so tragic. >
  
  
  I’m an Elizabeth Warren kind of gal.
  
  Warren is radical.  That's why her attempts to run for higher office have not gone far and why she's a darling of radical-left media.
  
  Who tf is being compassionate to pedophiles?
  
  The people who keep vigorously defending their right to perform sexual shows in front of children.  Sorry but there have been enough of those performers busted for being sex offenders that it's officially a pattern and no amount meltdowns change that.
  
  Also sick ass ad hominem.
  
  Says the person who started out accusing someone of being a sucker for something that doesn't exist and followed with calling me a coward.  Don't dish it if you can't take it, honey. >
  
  2024 definitely is his best shot. Who knows if his popularity/fame holds until 2028. Like you said, his claim to fame is his anti lockdown policy, and as covid fades from the public’s memory, he doesn’t really have much else to stand on. “Vote for Ron because he kept Florida open 8 years ago!” doesn‘t sound convincing.  His only other thing is being “anti woke”, but pretty much every other Republican has the same position. Plus, he’s term limited as governor after 2026. I honestly don’t see his momentum lasting until 2028. >
  
  If he wants to go for it, this is his moment. You never know what's going to happen until 2028. I think he wouldn't have a problem right now getting most of the vote that doesn't go to Trump, regardless of how crowded the primary is. >
  
  He has to run in 2024 since, as you said, 2028 will be far too late.  His primary strength is that he has Trump's policy positions without Trump's toxic personality and behaviors.  While there will be a small faction of Trump diehards I think the fact Trump lost several states in 2020 that he had won in 2016 shows that in the critical locations DeSantis has the edge where it matters. >
  
  DeSantis is smarter than Trump, but doesn't have Trump's charisma.  and he won't have the same affect on poor whites because he never had a TV show.  After this Trump congress fails in the next 2 years, the republicans will be a permanent t minority. >
  
  If he wants to be president, he should run... not saying he will win, but I don't think he'll have better chances 4 or 8 years from now. Right now, he has a lot of star power from treating covid how majority of republicans wanted the leadership to treat the situation. Deaths were relatively low per-capita and the economy flourished by not restricting businesses and travel. We don't know what could happen in that time and a new star may rise for republicans. So now can he beat trump? He can attack trump on the mismanagement of the covid crisis from the republican point of view.
  1) he kept fauci on the job (literally after being famous from saying "you're fired")
  2) delayed the closing of the boarders to Chinese visitors  
  3) Delaying crucial information to the US citizens (this one is bipartisan) 
  4) allowed the state lockdowns and overreaching policies under his administration (yes, of course Trump will push this on the local politicians, but it's still a point to be argued) >
  
  
  Deaths were relatively low per-capita and the economy flourished by not restricting businesses and travel.
  
  Just for the record, Florida was number 37 in terms of death rate at 392 per 100,000. California was number 12 at 250. Even New York beat Florida despite having NYC and being the epicenter of the initial outbreak at 388 dead per 100,000. Source.
  It gets significantly worse for Florida if you only count deaths after the vaccine was released.
  Florida kept open, but if least deaths was the goal, Florida did not do well and was on the bottom, despite its climate advantages. >
  
  But Florida is also like 90% old people.  The most at risk group.  You would expect them to have higher numbers of deaths. >
  
  Florida is not "90% old people", it's 21.3% people older than 65.  This is almost exactly the same as Hawaii, which has 20.4% people older than 65 and a similar climate.  Florida had 392 deaths per 100,000, while Hawaii had 125.  Maine has more old people (21.8%), and a death rate of 208 per 100,000.
  And again, all of these statistics get drastically worse for Florida if you start the death count on the day the vaccine becomes available.
  If you consider the death rate to be an important factor, no matter how you squint at it, Florida was one of the worst states at preventing deaths to COVID-19.  I know it's a Republican talking point that Florida stayed open and suffered nothing for it, but that isn't true, they did in fact pay in human lives.
  The policy of restricting the spread before the vaccine, and then pushing the vaccine hard once it became available was in fact an effective strategy at reducing the number of dead citizens. Youi can certainly consider lives paid to remain open to be worth it, but it's a fact that in terms of death rate, Florida was near the bottom no matter how you slice it, despite it's favorable climate. >
  
  Yes, those are age adjusted statistics.  I'm not sure what your point is though, because it doesn't help Florida.  Hawaii (same climate + demographics) is 106, Maine (same demographics and much worse climate) 180, and Florida 299, by your own age adjusted statistics.
  Seriously, can you dice it up however you want; the strategy of remaining fully open before the vaccine with minimal restrictions, then NOT encouraging people to take the vaccine once it became available results in a higher death rate in Florida.  It is in fact an effective strategy to reduce the spread before vaccination, and then push vaccination once it is available, in terms of reducing the death rate.  You might not consider it worth while to enact that policy for economic or moral reasons, but you can't argue that it was a more effective strategy in terms of reducing human death.
  Policies have trade offs. >
  
  I think Trump should start his own party of white nationalism. That way 30% of the Republicans will vote for him and the rest will vote for an actual republican maybe. Oh I forgot there is no such thing anymore. Just a bunch of middle-aged white men wanting to look in children's pants to make sure they are who they say they are. A bunch of old white men that still believe it's okay to marry a 14-year-old girl and get her pregnant as she's mature enough for that. That same girl though if she comes out as trans or as gay and she's not mature enough for that. You all seem to think it's a damn choice. Trust me, she's a lot more mature to handle that versus being a mother. Have you ever watched 16 and pregnant? >
  
  Young presidents isn't really a republican thing in the modern era.  DeSantis is too young and Trump is too old.  
  Ted Cruz might be the "return to normalcy" that seems popular with voters.   Also the first Hispanic president being republican would be a nice bridge away from the identity politics of today. >
  
  Cruz was runner-up in 2016 but is the butt of a lot of jokes. Not sure how much mainstream appeal he has. 
  What are your thoughts on Marco Rubio? He's also from a populous state, also Hispanic, came in third in 2016, and arguably has a more impressive resume as a senator. >
  
  
  and arguably has a more impressive resume as a senator.
  
  Citation needed. They're both useless. >
  
  I'm a Democrat who passionately hates the GOP but I don't have to pretend that GOP politicians are less accomplished than they are in order to justify my dislike. They have serious power. Power isn't useless. >
  
  Please tell me what Marco Rubio's impressive legislative accomplishments are. Was it his support for immigration reform with a pathway to citizenship? Or was it his total reversal of that?
  What has he done to make him so impressive? >
  
  Yeah. So this is my problem with Rubio. Well one of them.  Unlike say that Marshall Applewhite knock off Rick Scott, Marco Rubio, at least at one point had something there. Which he abandonnwd >
  
  He should run and split the Republican vote because it will be very very funny and Republican losses are necessary for the continued survival of the human race. Let them fight! >
  
  That's... absolutely not how elections in the U.S. work. >
  
  Usually, no, but the toxicity in the GOP right now is very high. If DeSantis runs, the primary will inevitably get very ugly and whoever wins the nomination will come out of it poisoned. And that's ignoring the possibility that DeSantis wins and Trump does his "rigged election" bit or runs 3rd party. >
  
  This is a nice, logical, coherent counterargument. Take my up-vote.
  The only flaw I see with the first part of your argument is, 2016 was highly toxic, produced a whole "never Trump" schism, the guy who won the primary talked about his dick size during a national debate and was caught on tape bragging about sexual assault, had numerous women come forward about sexual assault, publicly bragged about affairs he had during his first marriage, broke his promise to share his tax returns if he won the primary, and he still won the GOP primary and got elected president by conservatives and many moderates.
  The idea that a candidate might get too poisoned during the primary to get elected in the general has been firmly disproven. I believe we are too partisan to let something like toxicity in our candidate stop us from voting against the other party.
  Edit to add: The part about the risk of a third-party candidacy by Trump, however, that I agree with. You're right, I sold u/Darth-Shittyist's comment short. >
  
  When I said toxicity, I mainly meant toxic infighting within the party. So, like, what we saw the week of the Speaker vote. The factions within the GOP are becoming completely incompatible, and an ugly primary between those factions will split the party. So, it's less "Oh, Trump said this terrible thing, I can't stomach him now," and more "Fuck Desantis, he won the primary unfairly, I'm definitely not voting for him." Sort of like the infighting that occurred on the left between Sanders and Clinton supporters, but without the whole "fine, we'll do the right thing and get behind the candidate" in the end.
  It could be wishful thinking on my part, but I just don't see any world where a Trump/DeSantis primary ends with the Republicans winning the presidency. >
  
  Agreed. I reread your first comment and realized I hadn't addressed this point in your argument, and edited my comment. Then I refreshed and saw your follow-up. We are on the same page. You CMV. 😃 >
  
  I think the last thing Republicans want is a split party. Neither Cruz or DeSantis will pit themselves against Trump. Both are agreeable men that rather work along side Trump >
  
  I would argue that they're already a split party; nearly every GOP running for congress or governor in the last election was clearly defined by whether they were with Trump or against Trump. And there are several Republicans who have gone on record observing that Trump-backed candidates didn't do well or stating outright that they saw Trump as a primary reason for the poor results. Finally, there were plenty of Never-Trump Republicans during the 2016 primaries, but you didn't see serious Never-Cruz or Never-DeSantis movements. Trump is a highly divisive figure, and the division has already been sown. >
  
  No you're wrong. 2016 gop republcians is split party. You dont understand or you haven't took time to research it, but Trump exploded an already growing grass root movement. The overwhelming majority of republican voters hopped on that movenment long before trump but the party couldn't deliver a populous candidate until Trump. You only see things from one side. You don't know how to discern through the bullshit of both sides. >
  
  LOL, arrogant much?
  Certainly I'm biased against Trump and want to see him fail to regain the reins of power. But I follow the news and have seen a sea change in the support he's received, for example noting how his endorsement didn't help as many people get elected/re-elected as it used to.
  Now if you've got facts or sound theories to cite that suggest the facts and fact-based theory I've outlined are inaccurate I'd enjoy reading them. 
  But your tl;dr amounts to, "nuh-uh, you're just not as smart as me so you can't see what I see" which is not only arrogant but also anti-intellectual, which is a sad combination. >
  
  You claim the republican party is split and trump is divisive but you said, "last election was clearly defined by wether they were trump or against trump", if trump hadn't united the gop and wasn't the clear gop leader then why would you or the news say something like that? Sounds like from whatever your repeated that from is the origin of division. Same source as for the desantis president run which was fabricated to create an imaginary split. Facts are he has made no indication to run. In fact no other candidate is running against trump. Why would these candidates even go through trump if he wasn't the clear gop leader? Are you saying the trump backed candidates didn't do well because of trump or a split in the party? To say trump is the primary reason they failed is disingenuous to the voters who more than likely don't participate in tribalism. Think about it, if there was a split in the party or if he was dividing the republican party then their would be no trump backed candidates at all. Remember desantis is a trump backed candidate but we are gonna sit here and believe he'll pit himself against they guy that helped him get elected. If your theory was true then trump would of never won majority of the vote in the primaries and we wouldn't had seen the highest republican voter turnout ever last general. >
  
  You're evidence is, look this guy said trump is losing support(just speculation) and oh this guy said he thinks trump could be in trouble(more speculation) oh and this guy said desantis is just waiting for the perfect moment(not facts). Sounds like a bunch of made up gossip. Congrats. >
  
  I mean, those links cite things like polls and election results. Some of us recognize those things as data, but you can call them gossip if you want. 😁 >
  
  Hmm yeah I saw, I hope trump doesn't lose any more super accurate polls that would be some pretty juicy drama huh >
  
  That's the first time you've cited (or at least alluded to) documented facts rather than denying documented facts. That's a step in the right direction....
  The problem is, if EVERYONE is saying Trump has lost his luster, everyone from the far left to the far right, you're really kind of sticking your head in the sand if you're just kind of deciding to believe EVERYONE is wrong. 
  It would be wonderful if you could cite any source other than Trump or people who work for Trump who say that he's still firmly in control of the GOP like he used to be. If you can't, you aren't operating on facts, you're operating on faith, and I'll respect that and leave you alone. >
  
  DeSantis should definitely run, I don't think you see anyone else get in the race if he does. Only other option would be a "relative" moderate (by that I mean someone who is at least somewhat bipartisan (Thom Tillis or Todd Young, both who have no name recognition but could get into get the name recognition up). 
  Pence will always be paired with Trump and Nikki Haley is the only other viable candidate but is smart enough to sit it out and hope DeSantis wins the primary. >
  
  Nikki would make an excellent VP >
  
  Depends on who else is in the picture.  Right now it’s kinda open.  I like him, and will likely vote for him but 2024 is a ways off. >
  
  I believe a couple polls the other week had DeSantis with a double digit lead over Trump. >
  
  being that he is far more likely to win a general than trump and  ahead of him in the polls i doubt he should endorse trump.
  The only thing that could save trump now is some kind of massive trump scandal that sucks up all the attention.
  The way to get rid of trump has always been to just ignore him and let him say nonsensical shit.. he feeds on attention. >
  
  If Trump loses the primary or gets shunned by the Repubs, he'll start his own party and take them down with him >
  
  Darth Santis should get caught doing something awful enough to sink him forever.  That would hand the nomination to Trump and kill the GOP for a generation, because the 60% - 70% of Americans who have a brain will never vote for Trump.  Ever.  We'd all rather see him and his congressional sycophants in prison for life. >
  
  This is DeSantos' moment, he needs to strike while the iron is hot. 4 years is an eternity in politics, he may never have a chance like this again. >
  
  He should throw his hat in the ring and promise to pardon Trump if elected. What’s Donald going to do to Trump that? >
  
  He should push Trump right out of the Presidential race. He is ten times more intelligent. Ten times more connected. Ten times more racist. Ten times more sexist. Ten times more dangerous. He can do ten times more damage to the constitution and ten times more damage to the integrity of the nation. Why settle for a con man reality TV show host, when you can have a real politician destroy the fabric that binds ALL of America? >
  
  He is popular and a front runner.  He would be the one forcing the others out.  Offering say Dept of Transportation Sec. job for endorsement. He just needs to be seen by Republicans as electable vs. Trump who would be too much of a risk. >
  
  It's amazing to me that all these Republicans Traitors to America still even have any support. It just reminds me that at least half of the people I see in Florida walking and driving around are brain dead idiots. >
  
  As a liberal I hope Trump wins... 
  He couldn't even beat bidenwhich is a VERY beatable candidate..
  I think the only reason he won at all is he was against hillary,who is the least likable politician ever with decades of conspiracy theories already baked in, and the media spent months saying " no need to vote for unlikable @$$ Hillary. He won't win anyway.."
  I think Trump loses to literally any other democrat not named Hillary clinton.Clinton.. 
  Best case for democrats is DeSantis wins and Trump gets  all pissy and throws a fit, maybe even ripping the GOP to little bitty pieces. >
  
  Your take is a common one, mine is a bit revisionist maybe, but i think Trump was the only candidate that could beat Hillary in 2016.
  People underestimate how angry the electorate was at the Establishment in 2016. And while Hillary was part of the establishment, it doesnt get more establishment than your Standard Republican. Imagine Jeb Bush, Ted Cruz, Scott Walker etc. The MSM could easily paint them as crazy tea partiers chomping at the bit to cut social security and medicare. 
  Trump could get away with running on Dem talking points like healthcare (repeal and replace) because he wasnt a standard Republican, in fact he was basically a Democrat who was kinda racist. He wasnt anti-gay, he was pro healthcare (in rhetoric), pro labor (in rhetoric), anti trade, anti china. All of these were Dem positions. 
  Trump was seen as a more leftist candidate than Hillary. If it was your run of the mill Republican, Hillary would have won IMO. anti-estahlishment candiadates like Ben Carson or Carly Fiorina might have beaten Hillary, if they were to smart enough to pivot too, but we'll never know. >
  
  Ps,Trump started with moderate/lefty talking points, but that ship sailed long before election day..
  I even started out pro Trump because of those moderate and leftwing talking points and knowing he could bully the Republicans into playing ball, but ended up hating his guts after he brought 3 known frauds accusing Bill of rape to a globally televised debate to attack hillary.
  It was the most disgusting thing I have ever seen politics wise and would do anything to take him down. 
  I bet I'm not that rare. >
  
  Well you're a liberal. Right wingers saw what Trump did in the debates and liked him more for it. Both parties have supporters who wont budge. The independents swung for Trump because he appeared leftist on policy, but conservative on culture.
  Any other standard Republican would have had difficulty pivoting like that because the Republican party brand has already been damaged by their religious devotion to Reagan. >
  
  Ha!HA!!
  No both parties do not worship two bot reality TV stars who are only famous for playing the heel on a reality TV show..
  Trump and conservatives were pretty unique with the fact you had this guy who could literally say or do anything and have a political party still worship him pretending he was sent bu jesus...Jesus....
  " I could shoot some on fith Ave and they would still do whatever I wanted" . >
  
  I don't think DeSantis has a choice. He's the republican darling currently but that shine doesn't last. If he doesn't shoot his shot now he risks sinking into irrelevance similar to Christie and walker and I think he knows it. My understanding is that he's term limited too so his opportunities to make waves will dry up. Apparently there's a growing problem in FL regarding rising insurance costs that may come back to him if left alone long enough. >
  
  Yeah this is the only answer. You take your opportunity before it’s gone. He just won re-election in an absolute landslide so he’s at his peak right now. The only obstacle in his way is Trump and it’s too early to tell who will come out on top which is an advantage for DeSantis since Trump is an incumbent with 100% name recognition. The fact that DeSantis is the defacto #2 in the polls and in some polls it’s very tight, shows he needs to run whether he wants to or not. >
  
  Yeah, ask Jerry Brown about that. He was so hot in 1976 as a new kind of Democrat he could have won the nomination, but he dithered about running  since he wasn’t 40 yet so he decided to wait. His rep went down and he spent the next 30 years unsuccessfully trying. >
  
  I know several Trump voters and they all want Desantis over Trump because:
  “Trump has too many haters. He lost to Biden.”
  The guy who told me that attended a recent Trump rally. He was die hard. WAS. >
  
  My very conservative Evangelical family members are starting to sour on Trump too. Some of them used to talk about him like he was the Second Coming (which they likely believed he would usher in). He's definitely past his expiration date. >
  
  Crazy to see Trump going from someone directly comparable to Jesus and is definitely chosen by god and probably even more than that to meh…. >
  
  Most of the people I know who are/were Trump diehards still have massive respect for the guy. They just think his time has passed and DeSantis would be just as effective. A lot of these True Believer types don't even think his star has faded, but rather than Dems damaged him so badly that he'd either lose or have a much tougher path to victory compared to '20 or even '16. He's still Jesus-tier for a lot of people, it's just that RDS is fresh and they don't have to cover his uh... missteps. >
  
  I think the VP roll has been promised to MTG which would explain her efforts to normalize herself. >
  
  She's still a freaking dingbat >
  
  No argument here. She’s Sarah Palin 2.0. >
  
  2.0 would be a slight upgrade, more like .002 >
  
  Can Boebert be Sarah Palin .22 cuz of her dumb gun restaurant? >
  
  Makes sense to me. The Deuce Deuce could also stand for the diarrhea you got eating there too. “I went on down to pew pews and got the double deuces.” >
  
  I’d argue that it’s a call of crowded vs not. In a crowded primary the rar right will go for him. Folks that are looking to move on will split amount the rest and the Desantis doesn’t look good at all. If there are three or four contenders? Well, I live in a real red spot but not many care about Trump as anything but an old hero. They love Desantis. >
  
  He should acquire guts to stand up to Trump and announce he is running; that is, if he ever expects to run a respectable race. >
  
  He should run.  I think the Non-Trump GOP voters will coalesce around him because they view him as the best chance to win and will largely ignore the also-rans who have announced or are expected to announce because of what happened in 2016 where the split vote allowed Trump to win with well under 50% support.
  I also think the reflexive negative reaction to any negative comment towards Trump will be mitigated by the fact that the people on stage will not attack him for what his supporters view as unfair reasons.  Rather, they will make the argument about who can win the next general election and, all things being equal, I would rather support a candidate who won his last race by 19 points than one who is going to endlessly talk about the election he lost.  By the next election, no one will want to hear about how the election was stolen from Trump, they will want to hear what is he going to do in the next 4 years and he has shown no signs of pivoting to that message. >
  
  Adding on to your second point I also fully expect Trump to continue attacking DeSantis for what his supporters view as bad reasons which will further erode Trump's support. >
  
  His best shot is 2024, and bluntly it is going to depend on China and Russia.  If Biden's strategy on Russia hold, there is likely to be a significant break in that country that the Democrats can point to as the US doing something major.  Essentially there are some indicators that all this pressure on Putin's Ukraine adventure, coupled with his illness, is causing serious issues in Russia that may lead to a breaking point.  If the Democrats/Biden break Russia, then no one is winning but Biden.  
  DeSantis is going to have to run, but he's making himself hated by the left.  That's not a great strategy as the Democrats have won the popular vote for president in every election except for one since 92.  That's not to say he won't get all the GOP voters, but there aren't enough of them to win unless the Democrats are not showing up. >
  
  I think he is making himself hated by a very specific portion of the left (the PC, SJW crowd) in a manner that has not reached the point of turning off older and more practical democrats.  You don't win FL by 19 points by only getting GOP voters.  Frankly, I think his across the aisle message is perfectly tailored to the 30-45 year old millennial democrat that has a stable job, maybe a kid or two, a house, and is no longer looking to blow up the system that they are doing quite well in which is ultimately what drove them away from Trump.
  For example, most of his actions regarding education have been wildly mischaracterized by the press but the reality is that most parents don't think their Kindergarten, First, or Second Grader should be taking any form of sex education regardless of how its taught and were probably shocked to find out that it was even being taught that young when they likely took sex ed in fifth or sixth grade at the earliest.  Further, most parents are inherently wary of any rule that allows or instructs the school to willfully withhold relevant and pertinent information from the parent regarding their child.  DeSantis is really good at putting together policies that enrage the far left, delight the far right, and still come across as common sense to the politically ambivalence.  
  Now, one could argue that as the cultural pendulum has swung so mightily to the left in recent years that it is easy to find areas where they have overreached and craft such policies but that is a different discussion.  For example, DeSantis might win all 50 states if the far left doesn't settle down with this 'minor-attracted person' nonsense as if most people don't think that pedophiles should be stigmatized or think that we should be doing less about this problem or it can simply serve the purpose of making people think that there is a growing trend of pedophilia that the left wants to coddle and the right wants to quash.  Where do you think the people with young kids come down on that issue?  I am getting off topic, but did the person who invented the term 'minor-attracted person' fall for a joke on a right-wing parody account?