comment: >
  
  I sincerely hope this guts the Swiss defense industry. Any nation that continues buying from them is an idiot.
context: This should surprise no one. They've still not cleared the export of ammunition for the Gepards that Germany sent that have been very important in protecting civilian areas from cruise missiles and suicide drones. Nor have they cleared the way to export the ammunition for the Marders that are being sent.
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  The Gepard ammo problem was only "solved" by finding a company in another nation (Norway) that was capable of starting up a production of 35mm rounds. >
  
  What's the point of using the Swiss as an ammo supplier in the first place? >
  
  They still actively produce ammo for european systems. >
  
  No one else does?
  This doesn’t make sense.  Who would tie themselves to a single vendor without at least one immediate backup? >
  
  Europe dont use these type of ammo that often, production line are there to supply peacetime use(training, maintenance, etc.) There are backups available but restarting production and refitting chain of productions for less used calibers takes time. Normally reserves would be there to protect NATO and euro countries but we are in a kind of awkward situation as Ukraine isnt NATo or euro but most countries are eager to smash the Russian bullies. They will give Ukraine what they can but they have reserves to maintain, soldiers to train, borders to protect... >
  
  Switzerland isn't in Nato or the EU. It does seem bizarre to have them be a part of the arms supply chain to be honest? >
  
  Especially when they can flag their neutrality for blocking where their products go. >
  
  It certainly is a way to try and lose business. >
  
  I'd say they're trying to avoid losing someone else's business. >
  
  Very true. Switzerland has always had a hard time returning  blood money that has propped them up since WWII. >
  
  Fake website. Switzerlandtimes.ch is not a thing. It's simply russian disinfo again. >
  
  it looks pretty legit but there is one giveaway which instantly proves that this is not a real site.
  if you click on the "SUBSCRIBE for 1€" button you just reload the site.
  no way a news outlet would make a site where the option of giving them money isn't working. >
  
  Also none of the social media links work >
  
  Switzerland is never gonna play ball till Russian bombs cross their borders >
  
  I wonder if it has something to do with Putin and his buddies storing money in their banks? You know, like Nazis did in WW2 >
  
  or his daughters living there? >
  
  A daughter of Putin lives in the Netherlands, still we just agreed to spend 2.5 bilion to help Ukraine..
  So that should not be an issue. >
  
  But why not let them have some Spanish weapons too.   Switzerland a real NATO ally would make sure Ukraine gets all the weapons they can from any source to continue beating the shit out of what’s left of the Russian Army as long as they remain on sovereign Ukrainian soil.  
  This was your first test of worthiness to become a NATO ally and you failed. >
  
  They don't want to become a NATO ally >
  
  This lol.....why would you commit to one side when you can make money of both. This is literally Switzerland  since forever. >
  
  That’s Switzerland since the treaty of Paris. Not since forever. >
  
  For anyone wondering why Switzerland has a say in any of this, it seems that Spain originally purchased these Swiss-made arms - and part of that agreement requires permission prior to being on-sold or donated.
  A law that makes sense from a distance, given that no nation would want to see their arms land in the hands of an enemy nation through a 3rd party.. but in this case, the Swiss Gov’t needs to take a break from shielding Russian oligarch funds, pull their finger out from where the Sun don’t shine and get out of the way of other nations trying to help an ally currently under attack. >
  
  Swiss Banks will never give up they're absolute neutrality cause that's how they get their money. If they start releasing the funds of russian oligarchs, suddenly, all of the other wealthy evil people will feel like they might be next and take they're money elsewhere; suddenly Swiss Banks aren't relevant anymore on the world stage. >
  
  That means they are not neutral. >
  
  I wish people could actually understand this. >
  
  If someone starts beating you up and I stand there and just shrug and say "I'm neutral.", then I'm not neutral, I've sided with the person hitting you. >
  
  That’s staying out of the situation >
  
  It's a trolley problem, depending on your philosophy it can be 'staying out of the situation ' or 'passively enabling a situation to continue'. Inaction is often an action >
  
  It’s not often an action, it’s always an action. Their action is typically to stay out of situations and provide a neutral ground. How do people not see that as useful, especially with their relative military power. >
  
  Knowing how Spanish Government work, i wouldnt be surprised if they dont give a shit and give them away anyways. >
  
  I reckon a majority of Swiss people would support this.
  The Swiss government can't break Swiss law but they have a big leeway in choosing the response to a contract breach. >
  
  “If you break the contract we won’t give you the munitions we already weren’t giving you” sounds like the worst that could happen. >
  
  They don’t even need to send it from Switzerland, it’s already held by the country wishing to supply it, the Swiss just won’t allow them to >
  
  "let it go Swiss, it's not nazi gold"! >
  
  oligarch money are quite delicious >
  
  hol up, saw a thread that declared this was a fake website sharing Russian disinfo. can anyone verify? >
  
  Interesting...Now I'm discombobulated cuz I can't understand then, did the swiss really do this? Cuz theres a few other locations that reported on this that are normally more legitimate, so now I have no idea haha... >
  
  Hmm I can't see it anywhere else after looking. It could also just be a website that makes very misleading headlines. Like if you look at the homepage it says "Jill Biden has cancer" when in reality she had a cancerous lesion removed. >
  
  Fancy that, I think you're absolutely right. I thought I saw a BBC headline running that description, but when I tried to re-google what Id done last time, the only two headlines are the one on this article, and a similar one with the same URL ending. Unbelievable man. What a world, eh? (Though guess I'm the fool for being so gullible haha) >
  
  Wow that article just says the same thing over and over again. It just repeats the same thing repeatedly.  It says a couple of things then says then again.  The things that it said in one paragraph are just repeated in the next.  The three things it said were reworded and repeated several times.  It made the same points several times. >
  
  Fake website. It's Russia trying to cause shit. 
  Fake website, no author >
  
  Neutrality is a lie and always has been. >
  
  Tho this is more like a breach of contract than neutrality. As Spain can't donate or sell what they buy from Switzerland without permission. They did not ask beforehand. >
  
  The Swiss would block it regardless though. They've still never green lit Gepard ammo from back in May. >
  
  Because they have a constitutional law preventing them right now >
  
  The Swiss defense industry isn't going to have any customers but the Swiss when this is done. The US will at least green light sending US produced arms when the opponent is on the US shitlist. >
  
  hope their arms industry colapses >
  
  a vast number of Swiss arms companies are owned by Germany. SIG is no longer Swiss-first since the merger with Sauer. Oerlikon is no longer Swiss-first since the buyout by Rheinmetall. Hammerli is owned by Walther Group. 
  I think all that's left is Tanner, Grunig & Elmiger (both target rifle companies) and Bruger&Thormet (B&T)
  B&T uh-ohed some years back and sold weapons to Yanukovich, who used the weapons on the citizens of Ukraine. >
  
  They are “neutral” until Russians start pulling out their funds from their banks. >
  
  Would lack of russian money make a big dent for their banks? >
  
  Swiss National Bank and Credit Suisse had really bad years last year.
  SNB posted a record loss of $143 billion last year (graph).  To put that into perspective, this loss by SNB in 2022 equates to 60% of all their profits for the past 20 years. >
  
  The Swiss National Bank made the loss because they wanted to devalue the Swiss Franc. This is all calculated and not an accident.
  Credit Suisse was always shit and finally got their comeuppance. >
  
  Remember the Swiss took ~~money~~ gold from the Nazis during WWII. >
  
  They took literal concentration camp harvested gold melted into bars. It’s way worse than “money” >
  
  Ugh... tooth gold... >
  
  Tooth gold is obviously the most egregious one, but remember that they stripped them of every ring, necklace, bracelet, etc that they were wearing or owned. That’s way more. >
  
  They bought 900 million of "loose gold" from Russia just a couple of months ago. Hmmmmmmm. >
  
  Wtf is this article. It's like a highschooler trying to turn 1 sentence into an entire essay. >
  
  Because it's fake. It's direct propaganda from Russia. >
  
  When money is more important than integrity. History repeats. >
  
  You are all missing the point of what neutrality is. For some reason you think that being neutral is some honorable and noble thing and Switzerland is thus not being neutral because they're not acting honorably. No, neutrality means doing nothing, even if terrible things are happening around you. It's not always an honorable thing, sometimes it's cowardly and heartless. But if it means savings millions of your people's lives and maintaining your autonomy as an independent country, I understand it, even if i don't agree with it. 
  Yes, I know the WWII nazi collaborator thing, means they weren't really neutral back then, yes I know I'll get 30 identical comments pointing this out. Though I hate Russia and everything they're doing, I don't fault the Swiss for wanting to stay out of yet another European war.
  I know this'll get a million downvotes cause I'm not jumping on the outrage train, don't care, stay mad. >
  
  Someone tell me again how this is to do with the slow Swiss political process rather than someone in that process with understanding of the cause and effect stemming from this decision and the will to help Russia. >
  
  I mean Roger Köppel from the swiss SVP party had guest appearances on russias TV station Russia Today (RT). Soooooo >
  
  Which is why they will lose in the Federal elections this year. >
  
  Will they, though? They are the biggest party in the National Council, and have been for decades. They poll much higher than the other parties, and it seems like... people just loves them. >
  
  The EU needs to review every strategic import with Switzerland. It just doesn’t make sense to rely on Switzerland for anything critical if they are unreliable partners.
  Trade in weapons, pharmaceuticals, machinery and equipment, etc. should be eliminated where possible. >
  
  I understand the sentiment but in this case Switzerland is firmly following its official policies, in this case Switzerland is too reliable. It sucks balls that these guidelines exist but don't confuse Switzerland being unreliable and Switzerland not following the wishes of NATO. >
  
  Just send it anyway. >
  
  Is there only one road? >
  
  Ah yes the swiss.. claim to be neutral but profits of war, in so many way... bravo on being asses >
  
  Switzerland would literally make more money if they allowed their arms to be sent to Ukraine, because that would mean selling more arms. >
  
  But not even close to the amount they clear from hosting Russian oligarchs funds. It’s where they send their money and their children. >
  
  They have a very big heart, full of neutrality. >
  
  Very big hearts, very full of love for blood money 💰 >
  
  That article was as useless as the ones in America.  It just kept saying the same thing over and over with no details. >
  
  I'm starting to believe that this isn't real. If you Google this online you'll see there's no more information than what this gives. Plus, there's nothing from any reputable websites that I know. 
  I tried everything to verify Switzerlandtimes.ch and found nothing. Also, their servers are in Finland, which I'm not too sure about either way. >
  
  Just send them US or French arms, don't let the swiss enter the conversation at all. >
  
  Or just let Spain ignore it. Switzerland is a whiny bitch. >
  
  Swiss "Neutrality" is a fucking joke and always has been.
  They tried to block the German Gepards too because they originally manufactured the 35mm ammo that would need to be sent with them.
  Switzerland should just admit that it's a Russian ally at this point. Not even Serbia has done this much to help them. >
  
  Have they exported anything to Russia during the war? >
  
  Nope Russia is blacklisted from weapons exports since they took over Crimea >
  
  So wouldn’t that be maintaining neutrality? Since they don’t have weapon exports to either side >
  
  Exactly what it is >
  
  People really throwing with irrational shit in here. 
  „Spanish Defense Minister Margarita Robles is waiting for the green light from Switzerland to export certain military equipment to Ukraine.“
  Switzerland only sells weapons for self defense of a country. A law prevents that they just resell it to another country, which makes total sense. Thus, why it takes longer to get the green light. They are on it. >
  
  what use are swiss made arms if you can't use them? >
  
  The Swiss over here just murdering the future of their own foreign arms sales. >
  
  we are neutral*
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  *about where the money comes from >
  
  There is an old African saying: "My country (insert African country here) is rich - in Switzerland!" >
  
  fuck swiss neutrality - countries ready to violate international law don't care about neutrality either. >
  
  In particular because they aren’t really in danger like they were in WW2. They are making these choices because they want to. >
  
  Well Switzerland is about to gut its own defense industry with actions like these. Countries are gonna now reconsider buying from the Swiss. >
  
  Does ammunition need to come from or go through Switzerland. If not, cast them to the side >
  
  Send them anyway, what's the Swiss gonna do? send some pikeman after you? >
  
  They didn’t say anything about Spanish legs though 🗿 >
  
  Ahh, the Swiss - the original Nazi bank. >
  
  I'm swiss.
  Lived here all my life. But i hve NEVER heard of this website.
  Im not sure it's legit >
  
  Everything the Swiss touch appears to be corrupt. Just look to FIFA for validation. >
  
  Here, something to think about. All this hate about Swiss people because "we can vote".
  Swiss is as corrupt as the countries using our banks.
  Doesn't help that a big part of the population is very close-minded and eats up propaganda like crazy, despite being good people. My mother is a prime example of it unfortunately. >
  
  If this conflict taught me anything, its that the Swiss are dicks. >
  
  The same Switzerland that while claiming to be neutral is buying billions of dollars worth of gold from Russia, effectively feeding its war machine?
  The same Switzerland that supplied the Nazis with steel? >
  
  No, the other Switzerland. >
  
  I'd love for them to just ship it anyway, and for us to turn a blind eye.
  The reason we block this stuff is afaik, is that its mandated by our own constitution. And any change to the constitution needs to be voted on by the swiss people, which is a rather slow and tedious process (which takes 12-24 months).
  Should we never have written it this way? Probably. Are we hypocrites to sell arms that the receiving country cannot give to anyone they want? Yes, weapons kill. And if we don't want that, we shouldn't export them at all. But in the end, also the country buying the ammunition and weapons has agreed to these terms, for whatever reason. >
  
  I assume this law was written to prevent Swiss weapons to be used in some civil war in Africa, by the Taliban and other stuff like that?
  I still think that makes sense. We are only judging it in the light of the war in Ukraine now, where most of us feel like providing weapons to them is morally the right thing to do, but writing a sensible law that covers both cases seems really hard. >
  
  We are not allowed to sell weapons to active conflicts, and the law was designed to prevent that weapons are shipped to neighbouring countries and then simply re-sold to active conflicts.   
  I think it would be better to correct it in a way, that re-selling is allowed if the receiving country is fighting a defensive war against another nation state or similar. >
  
  Switzerland was a mistake. >
  
  Note to self: stop buying Swiss-made arms >
  
  Reminder that Swiss martial neutrality was because Swiss mercenaries were effective enough that they were being bought up by both sides in wars, so the neutrality was put in place to protect them from killing themselves. >
  
  Ukraine? No. Nazis? Ok. >
  
  Switzerland is making a great case for any country that needs to get military hardware to NOT buy from them.