comment: >
  
  KFOR … do we need to do this again …
context: Serbian here, let me explain. 
  Yesterday a huge chemical truck flipped over and dangerous chemicals got into a Nišava river in southern Serbia. This same water is used for drinking and other stuff.
  Government is using this to cover up real problems. Don’t worry, these “tensions” happen every few months
  Edit update: some reports say 51 person in hospital with symptoms of poisoning already >
  
  
  Don’t worry, these “tensions” happen every few months
  
  Every few months every single year ever since the Ottomans gtfo'ed 104 years ago.. >
  
  It's been an on and off thing since Kosovo was first being juggled around by East Rome, Bulgaria and Serbia starting in the 11th century. >
  
  The region has been at each other's throats since the Greeks and Romans fought the Gepids and Thracians, then the Dacians, then the Huns and the Ostrogoths, then the Slavic peoples migrated in, took on some local flavor and diverged into separate nationalities/ ethnic groups, and fought each other ever since. >
  
  Honestly the region just sounds super cursed. >
  
  Nothing that happens in the Balkans is worth the bones of a single Pomeranian Grenadier.
  
  Bismarck. >
  
  I was just thinking about him. Didn’t he sort of half-predict the next conflict would come about due to shenanigans in the Balkans, and advised his emperor to ignore all of it? >
  
  Pretty much. Bismarck knew how the game was played and Wilhelm 2 dismissing him was idiotic. >
  
  To be fair by the time the crisis occured Bismark had died so the Kaiser would have been on his own handling it regardless >
  
  To be even more fair, Bismarck had predicted it twice. The first time he said it would be some damn thing in the Balkans that would set everything off.  The second prediction was to Wilhelm himself the last time they spoke for how long he'd have after Bismarck died. He was off by 4 months. >
  
  The Serbian army is much smaller than it used to be and they've shown no signs of actually preparing for a war. It's all just smoke and there is absolutely nothing to be alarmed of >
  
  I mostly lean towards saying the same thing but I’m absolutely going to say that anyone commenting about how nothing is going to happen and making damn near guarantees on what is going to happen on reddit of all places should absolutely be disregarded. 
  Iamsosmart Redditors also scoffed and dismissed any suggestion the Taliban would retake Afghanistan not too long ago too. Anything could happen. >
  
  This won't turn into anything. >
  
  People said the exact same thing earlier this year when Putin started lining his tanks across the Russia-Ukraine border. >
  
  Russia has nuclear weapons and isn’t completely surrounded by NATO. It’s a bit different. >
  
  Russia is not going to get involved in anything in Serbia it’s the Balkans tensions happen there all the time. Difference between this and Ukraine is NATO is in Kosovo and Serbia was defeated by them last time they tried invading if NATO was in Ukraine Russia would not touch it because NATO would defeat Russia >
  
  Can we not? >
  
  It is Balkans, it has been 20 years without war. You are asking for too much, sorry. >
  
  "Balkan Powderkeg" is a shirt you can wear on any occasion in any time period and ppl will be like heh yea >
  
  That’s not true. A thousand years ago they might not have understood what a powder keg is. >
  
  I think if they could read just the Balkan part they'd be able to parse it may not even need the second term
  "Balkan Cylinder? That is cutting humor, future person!"
  No offense to Balkan peeps but you folks are like Warhammer Dwarves with book of grievances that literally span thousands of years
  Last time I ask about Alexander the Great and European grains >
  
  It really is crazy how so many Balkans are apparently medieval and ancient history experts who know every slight against their country and how everything their country ever did was warranted >
  
  Man I get that Serbia/Kosovo flaring up is a common occurrence, but good god. China-Taiwan, Russia-Ukraine, the Koreas, the whole world is either fighting or at a knifes edge. >
  
  Armenia-Azerbajian, Turkey-Rojava, Belarus-Ukraine. The list goes on. >
  
  Not to mention India and Pakistan always being a thing. We’re in for a long decade of regional conflicts and deglobalization. >
  
  Plus the Turkey/Greece dispute regading Cyprus
  Plus the tensions in the Middle East and North Africa (Syria for example)
  This whole world soon is going to shit by the feel of it >
  
  Serbia cant invade Kosovo anymore. That 1998 train is gone. I dont think that Serbia is that Stupid, invading Kosovo and Attacking KFOR Troops. That would mean War against Nato, and they will get Steamrolled by NATO. >
  
  I’m not entirely familiar with nato-Kosovo relations but why would invading Kosovo mean war with nato?
  I know nato increased its combat readiness in the area over the license plate dispute and nato was heavily involved in the Yugoslav wars, so I don’t doubt that nato will jump to defend Kosovo, I just don’t really understand why. >
  
  For more info just google "biggest army camp in europe" and you will find the answer🤣 >
  
  In the Balkans* >
  
  In Europe* >
  
  biggest NATO army camp in europe* >
  
  Serbia places that one farmer with his tractor at the border. >
  
  I mean we already saw what a motivated farmer can accomplish with his tractor. >
  
  You should see what a motivated welder can do with a bulldozer >
  
  Killdozer moment >
  
  Kosovo again? NG+? Please all countries stop invading others because of some nationalistic bullshit beliefs. >
  
  There is no invading here? Kosovo is not a country. Serbia can't invade itself. >
  
  Classic deluded serb, mental check needed for you buddy. >
  
  Ad hominem fallacy. >
  
  The only fallacy is you believing Serbia has control of a country that left y’all over a decade ago >
  
  This is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 89%. (I'm a bot)
  
  
  Serbia on Monday placed its security troops on the border with Kosovo on "The full state of combat readiness," ignoring NATO's calls for calming down of tensions between the two wartime Balkan foes.
  Kosovo's government has asked NATO troops - which deployed in 1999 after the trans-Atlantic alliance bombed Serbia into leaving Kosovo - to remove the Serb roadblocks.
  Serbia has asked KFOR to deploy up to 1,000 of its troops in the Serb-populated north of Kosovo, to protect Kosovo Serbs from alleged harassment by ethnic Albanians, who are the majority in the country.
  
  
  Extended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Kosovo^#1 Serbia^#2 Serbian^#3 Serb^#4 army^#5 >
  
  Not this shit again. >
  
  Why is it that every Serb I meet absolutely hates America and Western Europe but every Serb I’ve met lives in America and or Western Europe? I have to sit and cringe at Dinner parties in California and England as some otherwise nice and friendly Serb spews some racist shit about Muslims while condemning NATO as a terrorist organization. >
  
  Since freedom of expression (including speech) is protected by the first amendment, if you don’t like our opinions, feel free to fudge off and make friends with any other ethnic groups  whose opinions you like more…
  I think understanding context is important. Most of our childhood memories are filled with American and Western European bombs falling on our hospitals, farmers markets, civilian train, etc. And we remember very well western media completely ignoring most of these events. 
  And then we watched much worse things done by NATO allies in Iraq, Libya, Syria, Afghanistan… We watched the US and NATO support Israel through thick and thin, chill with and arm Saudi Arabian dictator, etc. So yeah, we are most often not the biggest fans of NATO.
  However, those of us who live in the US are also not delusional about Serbia’s war crimes, just as we are not delusional about the ones being committed by the west and allies. So we don’t buy into the whole white-and-black picture, NATO good, east bad, that most of the people here do believe.
  As for the racist shit against Muslims part of your comment, this is far from true from my experience, at least among Serbian Americans… Most of us here have Bosnian Muslim friends who are like sisters and brothers to us, and the last thing we care about is judging anyone by their religion. You may have found some very extreme exceptions. >
  
  Real friends call out their friends for their bullshit. I never said I hate Serbian people. I was just baffled as to why they didn’t choose Russia as a new home. Most of them are very fond of Putin. Must be the food scene. >
  
  
  I was just baffled as to why they didn’t choose Russia as a new home. Most of them are very fond of Putin. Must be the food scene.
  
  Are they architects, lawyers, software engineers, doctors, or much simpler people (I'm sure it's the latter.)? >
  
  Professor of Mathematics, another is a talented pianist, and it’s rumored that her hubby is a pornographer. All of them highly educated. Not sure about the rest of their congregation except for their priest but they’re all members of their local Serbian Orthodox Church. Their community revolves around it. >
  
  I wouldn’t know. I show up for the Rakia, hospitality, and good food. >
  
  We have a VERY loud minority who would suck comrade Putin off, no doubt, but these are almost universally people who are yet to realize what is the primary reason for all the misery that happened since early '90, or manifested, should I say. Most intelligent educated people are not pro anyone, and would just like to live a decent life, which is nearly impossible in SRB, and who knows if and when it'll be a good place to live, especially with all the complications we have to endure. >
  
  send them a video of us filling the gas in our B2's. You're getting ready, so is we. >
  
  serb propaganda in the last few years has been pushing around this lie that in addition to the F-117, they 100% shot down, they also shot down a B-2.  A B-2 that was in operation after they claimed to have downed it.  
  Serb propaganda and Russian propaganda is equally as nationalistic as it is far from reality and bizarre. >
  
  Serbia has raised their combat readiness 6 times in 5 years. According to serbian media.
  They love to do this because it gives an penile errection to the male population. >
  
  Baltics need to chill >
  
  Serbia is always doing something to instigate a fight. This is due to their lack of leadership since they can’t figure out how to run an effective economy for its people. When a country goes to war it’s usually to cover up leadership failures at the top levels of every government. Serbia has enough resources and strong people to survive anything as long as they look within to solve their problems…this is coming from someone who was born in the region in the late 80’s >
  
  It's funny seeing how Croatia, and to a lesser extent Montenegro, have flourished and moved their nation and economy forward while Serbia lives with the same medieval bullshit ideologies. >
  
  I'll be the first to criticize my country, but those 2 are the worst examples you could mention lol >
  
  Serbia will be the russian pawn to distract NATO from Ukraine.... >
  
  They will get their ass handed to them very quick. >
  
  If NATO really went for it, they wouldn't need all three days. >
  
  Three minutes maybe if nato really went for it tbh >
  
  Why are humans so f'ng self destructive?  
  There is a better way.  Just stop being an asshole. Is that too much to ask? >
  
  This!  Just stop.  No.  No need to try to explain how it's justified because it isn't.  Stop being selfish, childish assholes. >
  
  People said the same thing about Russia ,and they invaded Ukraine . There is every reason to take it seriously and be ready to step in if needed, we cannot allow for the 90s to repeat themselves . >
  
  Like I said the same things have been happening for the last 10 years. Also we don't have an army, what are we going to attack with? Potatoes? >
  
  Russia thought it could take over Ukraine (and eventually Poland, Germany, Romania etc) with rusted, fucked up Mosins, shitty death-trap tanks and the 'best' quality bombs from North Korea and Iran. The start of the war they had slightly better stuff but that got quickly shredded as even the good shit was piss poor and badly maintained. Despite all that, Putin is STILL trying to take Ukraine.
  Sometimes idiots just don't know when to quit even with the most obvious and loud signs. >
  
  Sure but Russia had people to throw into the meatgrinder we don't have enough people to drive city buses so we are accepting drivers from Sri Lanka, trust me we couldn't fight even if we wanted to XD >
  
  Unless that's just what you want us to think!
  /s in case it's not clear >
  
  sure, I'm spreading fake news in order to make NATO drop their guard so we can attack NATO HQ while they are sleeping  XD >
  
  I knew it! Clever Serb (said like "Clever girl" from Jurassic Park). >
  
  Dammit Serbia, can you not start another world war? >
  
  How distinctly unoriginal of a take >
  
  I'm just as scared as you are. >
  
  It’s the Balkans tensions have been like this for years plus NATO is in Kosovo and if Serbia does attack they’ll get reminded of what happened to them in the 1990s. Yes I know everyone said that Russia wouldn’t attack Ukraine and they did but Ukraine is different they didn’t have NATO peacekeepers or are a part of NATO if that was the case Russia wouldn’t have touched Ukraine. Ever since the world has had Nuclear Weapons the world has had proxy wars because neither major superpowers want another world war because that would mean Armageddon and the whole reason why the Cold War never turned hot >
  
  Perhaps they should give the Chinese Embassy a call first >
  
  Why are the Serbs so nationalistic? Why are they clinging to the "greater serbia" propaganda? >
  
  They were the ones who lost the most out of Yugoslavia  dissolving. It's not hard to understand. >
  
  What did they lose? Really, this is BS. >
  
  Their right to ethnically cleanse the population without interference, of course.
  Fuck 'em >
  
  Wonderful. >
  
  The Balkans are at it again >
  
  NATO is armed to the teeth right now in Europe with planes up in the air 24/7 I don’t know if Serbia wants to mess around and find out. >
  
  Serbia is a bully who refuse to accept Kosovo as independent nation and want to pick a fight. >
  
  No nation would willingly give up a chuck of it's territory. >
  
  Plenty have. Besides, Serbia lost its ‘rights’ on Kosovo when it tried getting rid of 90% of the local population. >
  
  Prove that. I don't see ICJ giving any verdict. >
  
  ICJ verdict:
  
  The Court thus concluded that the declaration of independence in respect of Kosovo had not violated general international law.
  The Court concluded that the declaration of independence did not violate resolution 1244 for two reasons. First, it emphasized the fact that the two instruments “operate on a different level” : resolution 1244 was silent on the final status of Kosovo, whereas the declaration of independence was an attempt to finally determine that status. Second, it noted that resolution 1244 imposed only very limited obligations on non-State actors, none of which entailed any prohibition of a declaration of independence. Finally, in view of its conclusion that the declaration of independence did not emanate from the Provisional Institutions of Self-Government of Kosovo, the Court held that its authors were not bound by the Constitutional Framework established under resolution 1244, and thus that the declaration of independence did not violate that framework.
  
  To answer your question:
  
  The arguments presented in support of the unilateral declaration of independence cover five main aspects. The first is the presumption in international law that civil and human rights, including of minorities, should be protected, with the aim of demonstrating that these rights were abused by the then-governing Milošević administration.
  
  Additionally:
  
  The fifth is that the right of self-determination, which the ICJ found to be jus cogens in the East Timor case, is a right of all peoples, not only of those in a colonial context.
  
  Lastly: 
  
  Another key argument is one of consistency – in the last legitimate Yugoslav Constitution, Kosovo had the same legal right to self-determination that was the basis for independence of five of the six Yugoslav Republics: Croatia, Slovenia, Montenegro, Macedonia and Bosnia and Herzegovina. Namely, in a series of constitutional amendments between 1963 and 1974, Yugoslavia had elevated the two autonomous regions, Kosovo and Vojvodina, to essentially the same legal status as the republics, with their own administration, assembly and judiciary, and equal participation in all the Federal bodies of Yugoslavia. Crucially, they held the same power of veto in the Federal Parliament, and were equally responsible for implementing, enforcing and amending the Yugoslav Constitution, as well as the ratification of agreements and the formulation of Yugoslav foreign policy. In the 1980s, the Milošević administration disbanded the institutions of Kosovo and unilaterally changed the constitution to strip the autonomous regions of these powers. [75] This argument was invoked by Croatia in the ICJ process.
  
  You have been thoroughly debunked, but that will never put a stop to your obsession. >
  
  I meant the ICJ verdict where Serbia tried to exterminate 90% of the population. I'll wait since you "debunked" a point I didn't claim in the first place. >
  
  I didn’t say exterminate, I said “get rid” as in expel them. And that’s been verified by multiple different NGOs as well as government institutions.
  By mid-1999, over 1.4 million Albanians had been displaced from their homes, around 1 million in only the beginning of 1999 alone. 
  The majority of these refugees fled to Albania and Macedonia, but hundreds of thousands also fled to Germany, Switzerland, USA, Canada, etc
  Now, before the inevitable question of “then why are there still 2 million people in Kosovo” arises, I’ll answer that here. It’s because after NATO’s intervention and the withdrawal of Milosevic troops, over 90% of Albanian refugees returned to their homes, mostly because the refugee status was too short for people to establish a permanent life elsewhere, and the fact that people just wanted to be home, not somewhere else. >
  
  
  And that’s been verified by multiple different NGOs as well as government institutions.
  
  That's not proof. Sorry better luck next time. >
  
  Oh I’m sorry, did you expect Milosevic to keep a handbook of all the names of every expelled Albanian?
  You may choose to disregard it, because believing it would mean coming to terms with how horrible your country was to us, but Kosovo WAS emptied. There was a literal refugee crisis in Albania and Macedonia. Albania alone was housing almost 500,000 refugees… >
  
  The opinion of useless NGOs and (which) governments is irrelevant without an official stance by an international court. >
  
  Don't get me wrong there are many things wrong with Serbia, but if it's a terrorist state, then what's America? What's even worse then terrorist state? Because then that's what USA would be.
  People nowadays use such name without even knowing what it is, but can't expect more from social media, especially when it comes to Balkans, the moment Balkans enter the chat everything looses all reasoning. >
  
  Putin needs this for a distraction >
  
  I guess the time to resolve this has come... >
  
  During WW2 Serbs in or near Croatia experienced something that can only be described as genocide.  It is something that continues to haunt the “ former Yugoslavia” to this day.  The Albanians of Kosovo were not part of that but they had to deal with the consequences.  There didn’t seem to be any alternative to the separation of Kosovo from Serbia in the early 90’s.  Anytime a big chunk of a country’s national territory is taken away there is going to be Nationalist resentment and there certainly was.  Today, separating Northern Kosovo from Kosovo and transferring it to Serbia seems reasonable but unacceptable to Kosovo and something the rest of Europe is reluctant to accept because it would only encourage more instability in the region.  I don’t know what the solution is. >
  
  The solution is for Serbia to back down before they get another does of freedom in Belgrade.  
  Serbia has nothing to gain from this.  They're stirring shit up when it doesn't need to be stirred up.  makes you think what internal issues Serbia is having for them to take up a stupid nationalist issue like this . >
  
  Did Serbia learn nothing from the Russian invasion of Ukraine. I highly doubt Serbia are any less corrupt than Russia and Kosovo already has NATO troops stationed there does it not?
  Pathetic, them and Hungary. Putin's European Fluffers. >
  
  looks like 2023 gonna start off with a bang, >
  
  Turns out things get tense when you committed genocide. WHO KNEW?! >
  
  NATO is about to have to teach Serbia another lesson aren't they? >
  
  NATO: “How many times must we teach you this lesson Old Man??” >
  
  
  legitimizes the idea that you can conquer territory by having sex lime rabbits
  
  Oh fuck off with that bullshit
  
  but Kosovo was Serbian territory historically
  
  No it wasn’t. Byzant, Ottomans, and even Bulgaria had more time with Kosovo than Serbia did.
  
  This sucks because it legitimizes genocidal Republika Srpska
  
  It does not. You’re just choosing to connect the two >
  
  So it is false that Kosovo was conquered simply by Albanians having far more children than Serbs? 
  Tell me how it does not legitimizes idea of Republika Srpska leaving Bosnia? 
  You can't just go around and pick and choose who can and who cannot claim independence on some made-up rules. Kosovo was an autonomous region in Serbia, it probably even had less autonomy than Srpska in Bosnia. >
  
  That’s how literally all countries are made… either by outbirthing the others, or by killing them or expelling them.
  The way you phrased it was downright racist. That Albanians are beings incapable of complex thought, who can only fuck like rabbits and ‘replace’ the rightful owners of land.
  This is complete bullshit. Albanians didn’t move to Kosovo to outbreed the Serbs, we were always there alongside them, in bigger numbers.
  
  Tell me how it does not legitimize
  
  Lol the burden of proof is on you. I already explained why the two entities are incomparable. So you tell me, how does it legitimize it?
  
  on some made-up rules
  
  Yes you can… The entire concept of countries and nations and boundaries and what constitutes a country and what doesn’t, they’re all quite literally made-up rules. 
  Either way, I’ll answer your stupid question regardless. We had the ‘right’ to secede because it became impossible to live under Serbia’s regime. It was downright brutal and crushed our human rights. So their claim about territorial integrity was irrelevant since they couldn’t do the bare minimum to ensure the locals lived like actual people. It was literal apartheid… The solution was either secession, or death/expulsion. 
  Republika Srpska never had that deal. >
  
  There were no proper censuses in 1455. The Ottomans carried them out by looking at the religion of people. Albanians at the time were almost entirely Christian, so they were grouped with the Serbian church as Serbs. It actually tells us nothing about the real population numbers.
  The same is true for the 19th century:
  
  Kosovo was part of the Kosovo Vilayet, which included Kosovo, parts of northern and northwestern North Macedonia, parts of modern eastern Montenegro and much of the Sandzak region. Nineteenth-century data about the Kosovo Vilayet tend to be rather conflicting, giving sometimes numerical superiority to the Serbs and sometimes to the Albanians. The Ottoman statistics are regarded as unreliable, as the empire counted its citizens by religion rather than nationality, using birth records rather than surveys of individuals.
  
  So once again, the censuses and measurements were completely unreliable. 
  
  A map published by French ethnographer G. Lejean[63] in 1861 shows that Albanians lived on around 57% of Kosovo Vilayet while a similar map, published by British travellers G. M. Mackenzie and A. P. Irby[63] in 1867 shows slightly less; these maps don't show which population was larger overall. Nevethless, maps cannot be used to measure population as they leave out density.
  
  Ironically enough, the reason Kosovo’s Albanian population would increase a lot, was due to the Albanian refugees that settled there from the Niš region after being expelled by the new Serbian state…
  
  During and after the Serbian–Ottoman War of 1876–78, between 30,000 and 70,000 Muslims, mostly Albanians, were expelled by the Serb army from the Sanjak of Niș (located north-east of contemporary Kosovo) and fled to the Kosovo Vilayet.[65][66][67][68][69] Serbs from the Lab region moved to Serbia during and after the war of 1876 and incoming Albanian refugees (muhaxhirë) repopulated their villages.[70] Apart from the Lab region, sizeable numbers of Albanian refugees were resettled in other parts of northern Kosovo alongside the new Ottoman-Serbian border.
  
  So yeah, all in all, the main takeaways here are:
  
  
  Ottomans had no reliable population censuses, as they measured people based on religion.
  
  
  Serbia is directly responsible for the growth of the Albanian population in Kosovo, as the Albanians they kicked out of Serbia fled south.
  
  
  The territory of the Kosovo Vilayet was very different from modern Kosovo, so those censuses accounted for people in Sandzak, Skopje, and other surroundings, which inflated the non-Albanian numbers >
  
  Do Serbs not remember what happened in 1999 when they tried another genocidal operation in Kosovo?  Kosovo is not Serbia, when will these assholes understand? >
  
  Are they going to fuck around and find out?  
  Could they be doing it as a distraction to help papa Putin? >
  
  
  Could they be doing it as a distraction to help papa Putin
  
  Sadly, Very likely >
  
  You have to look at it from Serbia's perspective. You are having a bad year country wise. Your most famous resident was deported from Australia. A country founded by convicts! How bad do you have to be deported from there? No one can stand your track suits and anti-vax politics. If someone has an opinion of Serbia, it is almost certainly negative.
  Then to your south you have Kosovo. One of the most beloved countries on Earth. That grinds your gears because you tried to genocide the Kosovars in the 1990s and failed. A failure that haunts you to this day.
  Now Kosovo, owning to its beloved nature, has important friends who could take over your country in a matter of hours. You aren't a fool, An all out attack is not going to end well for Serbia. But poking Kosovo here and there makes your citizens think they are better and doesn't provoke a response from Kosovo's allies so there is no price to pay.
  Of course, eventually NATO is going to say enough is enough, send two French troops out from Pristina at dawn and they will be eating the baguettes under the NATO flag in Belgrade by lunchtime. It is a delicate balance.