comment: >
  
  Pence brings the evangelical vote. Beyond the MAGAts. He needs the Bible thumper-Trumpers too.
context: Studies have shown who you pick as VP doesn’t make much difference. And particularly in this case, with Trump such a polarizing figure, everyone either loves him or hates him. 
  I can’t imagine there are any voters out there who would say “well I wasn’t going to vote for Trump but I really like Stefanik”, or “I was going to vote for Trump but I just hate Noem.” 
  At this point you are either Trump yes or Trump no, the running mate doesn’t matter. >
  
  Sarah Palin definitely didn’t help as a VP candidate. >
  
  Pence did, though. Lots of GOP voters assumed he'd be a steady hand at the wheel or something. At the very least, a conservative white guy who at least knew how to quote the bible correctly gave evangelicals license to vote for the serial womanizer, rapist, and all-around pimp of Babylon at the top of the ticket. >
  
  I'd say they were right.  If Trump had gone for an MTG figure do you think that person certifies the result on January 6 2021? >
  
  No. However I'm not sure that did much but delay the inevitable fate that the next Republican VP will decline to certify Democratic EC votes. >
  
  I wouldn't be as pessimistic as all that.  We don't know when there will next be a Republican President, we don't who it will be, we don't know who the Vice President will be.  Maybe with no Pence figure to offer cover the Democrats win 2024 convincingly and it's taken as a repudiation of Trumpism.
  For me part of believing in democracy is believing that the people will act as a check against the excesses of leaders like Trump.  If one doesn't believe that what's so great about democracy? >
  
  I have seen zero evidence that the Republican party wants to repudiate Trumpism. The strongest electoral pattern I have seen in my lifetime is that conservatives are increasingly authoritarian, and increasingly contemptuous of democracy itself. 
  I have no real faith in the Democratic party to head that off, and I don't see much evidence that they're trying, beyond hoping that somehow the oligarchs muzzle the fascists before the republic crumbles around us. So, I think it's likely we'll have another Republican president, because above all else Americans want to believe that nothing will fundamentally change, and that's the noose authoritarians will use to strangle the life out of our country. >
  
  MTG has no chance.  
  Gabbard would get him the most votes.
  Realistically I think Stefanik. >
  
  Stefanik would be the best choice, but Trump will choose whoever vows undying loyalty to him over the country (or the party even). That is his number one requirement, and he hates Pence for "betraying" him by not trying to overthrow the election. Guys like Trump are (rightly) paranoid about betrayal because he breaks the law and needs everyone to cover for him. >
  
  I have to wonder now, why did he accept Pence to run with him in the first place? Because he thought it'd help him win? Because the Republican establishment demanded it? >
  
  Pence brings the evangelical vote. Beyond the MAGAts. He needs the Bible thumper-Trumpers too. >
  
  I guess the question is, now that he's been burned so badly by Pence, will he prefer someone loyal even at the expense of his electability? And is that good news for Democrats? >
  
  I think the honest answer is that it probably doesn’t matter now who he picks to lock up the evangelical vote. >
  
  Trump overturned Roe with his judicial picks. I think he’s on solid ground with evangelicals, seeing as they’ve tried but failed to overturn it for at least 40 years >
  
  One thing any possible VP has to consider…if you are not willing to break any law, promote any lie, or have an election overturned, Trump will not stop a crowd from murdering you.
  Similar case in point…Hannity, when under oath, had to admit that he knew all along Trump had lost, he had no doubt whatsoever about the election results. But on his shows, he was all too happy to carry water for Trump. 
  Trump isn’t really taking this run seriously.  He is only trying to keep the grift going and shield himself from court judgement. >
  
  I would bet money on Trump not being the Republican nominee (or a serious candidate at all). I just don't see him being able to raise the money for it, especially with the information out about how his misspent his 2020 campaign funds. >
  
  The problem being is, it is up to Trump, If he runs and doesn't get the nomination, he'll destroy the winner's chances of winning the general.  In so doing, he'll hand the dems a trifecta. He's not a loyal republican who'll go quietly into the night!  Of course if he does get the nomination, he'll probably still hand them a trifecta.  Republicans are screwed unless he dies, >
  
  Agreed. He's too much of a narcissist to not run. If he's not the GOP nominee he'll run third party and split the conservative vote. Either way, next election is the Dem's to lose. I wouldn't want to be the GOP chair. >
  
  Hell never run 3rd party. 
  Hes smart enough to know that he can't pull it as in independent because no one can. He said as such in 2016. This is fantasyland stuff that the left keep pedaling but there is nothing to back it up. >
  
  I have a psych degree, and all indications are that he's a narcissist. What is consistent for a narcissist is the need to be seen as being great in other people's eyes, and they will be inconsistent in thought, word and deed to get it. 
  For example, he said he'd share his tax returns if nominated because saying that would improve how he was viewed during the primaries, and then he went back on it because he knew it would reduce admiration to reveal how he'd claimed multi-million dollar business losses year after year. 
  For another example, threatening to not acknowledge the party's 2016 nominee if it wasn't him.
  For another, doing everything in his power to hold onto the presidency in 2021, including disrupting the orderly transition of power after Biden was elected.
  We don't have to agree. Assuming he survives long enough, we'll see over the next year who is right. I would bet my left hand he's either the GOP nominee or he will be running as a third party candidate claiming that the primaries were rigged and he is the true nominee. >
  
  I think most people, including Trump fans, will say hes a narcissist. It does not mean he is stupid or running 3rd party. He has legit talked about it in campaign rallies before in it being an insane and stupid idea. 
  
  For example, he said he'd share his tax returns if nominated because saying that would improve how he was viewed during the primaries, and then he went back on it because he knew it would reduce admiration to reveal how he'd claimed multi-million dollar business losses year after year.   
  
  I never took it as a credible statement plus he was legitimately under audit the entire time as we learned within the last couple of weeks when the democrats released his taxes. He was under a decade long audit that ended well into his presidency because he was then again audited for his last 2 years in office as part of the presidential act. That would make his statements of not releasing until after audit technically true (but again I never suspected he would do it anyways).    
  
  and then he went back on it because he knew it would reduce admiration to reveal how he'd claimed multi-million dollar business losses year after year.   
  
  I would be willing to bet that HE was the source of 1 of the 2 tax leaks that happened during his tenure. Business losses are part of the business. No one is dumb enough to think he is broke or not successful. Forbes currently has him around the 850th richest person on the planet.   
  
  For another example, threatening to not acknowledge the party's 2016 nominee if it wasn't him.  
  
  Trump is a game player and hes a sore loser. If he doesn't win, he doesn't give 1 F.   
  
  For another, doing everything in his power to hold onto the presidency in 2021, including disrupting the orderly transition of power after Biden was elected.  
  
  Again, hes a game player. Hes was all in to win. I don't think he did anything illegal but he certainly did everything he could just short of that even pushing unknown unvalidated theories within the scope of the law to win such as the separate electors etc.   
  
  For another, doing everything in his power to hold onto the presidency in 2021, including disrupting the orderly transition of power after Biden was elected.  
  
  No way. He will likely take the nom but if he doesn't, zero % chance of running 3rd party. Winning the actual election though is a toss up. The media and the left have very successfully tarnished his name, reputation and brand (and will continue to do so) and I would say near completely illegitimately but that's how politics is apparently if you are on the left. >
  
  I think you underestimate how powerful the emotional drivers are for a narcissist. They do cause you to make dumb decisions, for example sticking to a "the election was robbed from me" narrative for four years even though people are tired of hearing about it. He can't stop saying it because otherwise he would have to accept that he lost, and he is psychologically unable to accept that he's a loser. What you dismiss as being a gamer I recognize as a very normal aspect of narcissism. And that same inability to accept losing is why I think he'll run as a third party candidate if he doesn't get the nod. 
  The other reason I think he'll do it is, he has a deep-seated need for revenge for those he perceives as having crossed him (which also aligns with his narcissism). I think his calculation would be "if anyone can win as a third party, it's me, because I'm that great, and if I lose I will screw over the bastards who should have nominated me, I'll teach them a lesson to not cross Trump". 
  You vastly overestimate how much spin the media needs to make Trump look ridiculous. From Trump trading cards to talking about his dick size during a national debate to calling upon the Proud Boys to stand by on national TV to inviting the Jan 6 riots to grabbing them by the pussy, the only thing the media needs to go to make him look bad to the left is quote him is report what he says and does. >
  
  
  I think you underestimate how powerful the emotional drivers are for a narcissist.  
  
  I think you overestimate how stupid YOU believe he is.   
  
  "the election was robbed from me" narrative for four years even though people are tired of hearing about it.   
  
  Whether people are tired of it not has no bearing on whether it's true or not or whether he believes it to be true and Trump certainly isn't one to do things he doesn't legitimately believe. He goes against the grain all the time.   
  
  What you dismiss as being a gamer I recognize as a very normal aspect of narcissism.   
  
  Again, I'm certainly not denying - I believe, he is a narcissist but it doesn't control everything about him and again hes not dumb at the end of the day which you ignore. Plus, He has literally addressed exactly this and stated it was dumb. 
  
  You vastly overestimate how much spin the media needs to make Trump look ridiculous.   
  
  You UNDERestimate the impact of the media propping up the left. I used to be like you until I liked someone on the right and like blinders came off, I couldnt believe what I never saw prior. >
  
  Trump needs to pick someone who can appeal to the Republicans who didn’t vote for him in 2020 and didn’t vote for his candidates in 2022. That is the biggest weakness. Governor Mike DeWine (Ohio) could fit the bill. Has to be someone who appeals to the conservatives in the suburbs who can’t stand the MTG/Bieber types. 
  Someone moderate enough to give them a reason to vote red but not moderate enough to make his supporters think he has gone soft. >
  
  DeWine is as old as Trump is. If Trump is the nominee, expect his age (76) and his health (he's overweight and doesn't exercise) to be an issue. (Age will also be an issue with Biden, if Biden runs—he's currently 80.) So he'd want a younger running mate. For comparison, Mike Pence is 13 years younger than Trump. Stefanik is only 38, which on the other hand is really young. >
  
  Many in this aging demographic would say, TOO young. >
  
  I just want Trump to win the nomination. He’s unelectable in the general; most especially after the coup on Jan 6. 
  He’d lose to ancient Biden just as much as he did in ‘20. Doesn’t matter who his running mate is. 
  The real threat to Biden is the GOP nominating DeSantis. >
  
  The real threat to the DNC is nominating Biden. Ancient fucking white guys.  I sure hope they don’t repeat another Hillary election. >
  
  The problem with the "not Biden" option is... who?
  Despite what KHive preaches, Kamala is abysmal when it comes to winning a popularity contest.
  Pete isn't doing himself any favors right now with his lack of action as Transportation Secretary.
  Bernie's definitely too old to make another grab for it.
  AOC knows she wouldn't win the primary or the general so she's not even going to try.
  I think a governor might be a good option but the issue there is that it'd probably be someone like Newsom. His type is adored by party insiders. And I seriously can't see a Cali governor doing well outside of Cali. He plays into the stereotype too much. >
  
  he should pick himself... it's the only person who's never going to disappoint him. >
  
  Best and realistically it will be some Pence clone.  Someone who isn't publicly a comeplete wignut and doesn't really have anywhere else to go politically.  But also hasn't gone against him publicly. >
  
  Imagine if Trump picked DeSantis. DeSantis is still young. He could be VP and use this run as a kind of coronation. I know they hate each other, but for political gain I think they would both do an about face for the cameras. Trump has this youthful version of himself waiting inthe wings should his age catch up to him. He brings in the florida vote. >
  
  One of them would have to move out of Florida.  The 12th Amendment doesn't let them collect electoral college votes if they are from the same state.
  
  The Electors shall meet in their respective states and vote by ballot for President and Vice-President, one of whom, at least, shall not be an inhabitant of the same state with themselves; >
  
  “You know, I was President once before (and I’ll be it again I can guarantee that!) and I don’t think the Vice President does much. No, no they do not. So I think what I’m gonna do is run as the President and Vice President. That how good I am, I can do both and I’m the only person I trust to do both jobs properly. 😎” >
  
  None of the above:
  George Santos
  Both somehow have a way of conning people. >
  
  Would he want the nomination?
  He has already been vice president after all. >
  
  Trump shouldn’t run period. In a normal democracy he would be ineligible.  He’s a deranged narcissist and should be in a mental institution somewhere >
  
  A century prior, born to wealth as he was, it’s not out of the question he’d have lived out his later years in a sanitarium.
  You look at him speaking in the mid 90s vs in the last 5-10 years, the mental decline is extraordinary. Even in the early 00s on the Apprentice, he’s using at least twice the vocabulary he does today. >
  
  Norm seems like a good pick. VP seems like a good pick to essentially elevate a member of your party. 
  Not sure how much a VP pick helps a ticket. I am sure that it can hurt more than it helps. IE Palin. >
  
  I don’t think Trump will make it out of the republican primaries.  The real question is…will he run as a third party candidate?   If he does, he is handing the White House to the democrats.  He has hinted he will run an entire slate of candidates in all 50 states.  If this is true, and that is a big if, he would be handing 385 House seats and 28 of the 33 of the Senate elections to the Democrats as well.  It would be a disaster for the republicans like no other.  Democrats would hold a massive majority in the house and a Super majority in the Senate.  For at least 2 years they could do anything they wanted with virtually no republican interference.  Abortion, gun control, immigration, marijuana legalization, major changes to the tax code, Medicare for all, and many more would be run through quickly.  It would be the busiest congress ever. >
  
  I think you have them listed in precise ascending order. Noem is prettier, so there's your number 1. Kari Lake is a good communicator, and her nose is in trump's taint, so #2 seems quite fitting for her. >
  
  In the case of Trump, it is called a cell mate, and there will be only one term. >
  
  What a Faustian question. I’ll go out on a limb and suggest by 2024 his probation officer. >
  
  because he announced he's running >
  
  The mere fact that he announced he's running on 11/16 but hasn't held a single rally since 11/7 speaks volumes about his intentions. Pretty sure he convinced himself that being an official candidate granted him immunity, and when he brought it up with Alina Habba she just smiled and kept her mouth shut. >
  
  DeSantis because trump wouldn't works so it would give DeSantis 12 yrs in office instead of 8. >
  
  Gabbard as a former Democrat would likely depress enthusiasm in the base. Stefanik seems like the best choice, but she doesn’t bring anything critical to the table as a running mate. 
  The problem for any potential Trump running mate is that they would need to accept that they would be expected to “overturn” the election results during the electoral vote count, even though it can’t be done. Trump wouldn’t pick anyone unwilling to explicitly promise to do it. >
  
  No one. He should drop his campaign, continue playing golf and ranting on his lame social media site until he finally kicks it. That being said he'll pick Lake because she kisses his ass so much, although the prospect of her being VP to an old and unhealthy 78 year old being president will scare the shit out of enough voters to make him unelecteable. >
  
  His best choice wouldn't be any of the ones in this shortlist.
  But if we are going off this list only, then Noem is the clear best one. A conservative governor from the Midwest, female and telegenic, and someone who has a similar appeal as Pence did as VP but who is a lot more of a Trump-type loyalist. The others lack qualification or fitness to be President if something happened to Trump in office. >
  
  Its who would accept, this would be the question. Someone like MGT would. I would not think a Nicki Haley would. >
  
  Nick Fuentes, Ye, or Andrew Tate.  Anyone of those three would be a running mate consistent with Trump's character. >
  
  At this point: which leading Republican would WANT to be his running mate? My guess is that he will have a hard time finding a running mate because most Republicans won’t want to hitch their wagon to Trump. >
  
  VP picks don’t matter that much.  In Trump’s case, it matters even less than for most candidates.  Literally no one is going to be swayed to vote for or against Trump because of his VP pick.  Everyone’s already made up their mind about him and would be voting for or against him.    
  I imagine he’ll probably just double down on the crazy that’s already his brand and go with someone like Green or Gaetz.  It seems pretty clear he’s done with feeling like he has to appease the “sane” wing of the party. >
  
  Noem is a liar and an opportunist who does very little for those of us in South Dakota despite her claims.However I think she has the least amount of baggage on this list. >
  
  The last two elections were determined by 1% in the key states that put Trump and Biden over the top respectively in the electoral college, not to mention 2000 where a heavily motivated Jewish vote for Lieberman the first Jewish VP pick, would have won it for Gore if the Palm Beach butterfly ballot hadn’t made them vote for Bucannan the nazi sympathizer instead. >
  
  Anyone that would agree to be trump’s running mate is clearly mentally unstable and has a death wish. >
  
  No matter who he picks, it's hard for me to see a scenario where he wins.  If Republicans want to win in '24 they'd better consolidate around someone else in the primary. >
  
  Surprised nobody mentioned Sarah Huckabee Sanders governor of Arkansas yet. 
  She has previous experience dealing with the media, worked with in the Trump administration, and is a woman that the GOP base seems like she would check off a lot of boxes with Trump.
  I know a lot of people are going to reply about her experience seeing as she was inaugurated this month, but do you really think that matters to Trump, republican voters, or anybody in general that Elise Stefanik has been an incumbent longer than her? 
  She's spent a lot of time defending Trump to the media and that's ultimately what you want in a vice presidential candidate anyway, advocate for the main candidate and don't be controversial like Sarah Palin or Dan Quayle. >
  
  I expect he’ll be in jail by then. And I think even the wimpiest Democrat could kick De Santis’s a$$. >
  
  Interesting that Tulsi is on that list. I always thought she was a very poor fit for the Democratic party, because she appears to have some integrity.
  I can't she her signing up with Trump, sadly, as entertaining as that would be, but she would bring votes in, no doubt. Tulsi, unlike MTG, can reach beyond the Trump base. >
  
  If Trump is the nominee, it will have to be someone who can broaden his appeal to include independents and/or bring in a state with a lot of electoral votes that he lost before.
  Here’s a real throw of the dice:
  Stacey Abrams! She hasn’t won in a while under Democrats, and could make the case that African Americans have been taken for granted by Democrats.
  For Trump, it would erase the “racist” label that Democrats have hung on him. >
  
  You think Abrams would run with Trump? No way >
  
  Stacy Abrams window for political success is rapidly closing. She needs a hail mary.
  Here's a rationale for it from Wiki:
  "The First Step Act, formally known as the Formerly Incarcerated Reenter Society Transformed Safely Transitioning Every Person Act, is a bipartisan criminal justice bill passed by the 115th Congress and signed by President Donald Trump in December 2018."
  This bill was initiated by Democrats and even though part of Donald Trump's campaign platform was "tough on crime", he was persuaded by none other than Jared Kushner to endorse this bill. No one would have predicted that Donald Trump would have supported a bill like this.  Since African Americans are incarcerated at a higher rate than whites, this bill was important to African Americans. I can envision Stacey Abrams saying something like, "having reviewed both the legislative record of Democrats and Donald Trump, I believe for the good of the country that I should make a bipartisan gesture and become Donald Trump's running mate. I am not changing my party affiliation; this is just a recognition that in order to heal the country and move forward, Republicans and Democrats must work together"
  Now, I realize that this scenario is unlikely to happen, but I can also see how it would be mutually beneficial to both Trump and Abrams.
  Trump is unlikely to be the Republican nominee and even if he were, his appeal is limited. He's got to do something to broaden his appeal. >
  
  Tulsi Gabbard would be a good choice. I'm not sure what the realistic pick would be. MTG might be a bit too abrasive for most women. Whomever it is, he/she will be a good one. Better than Judas Pense. >
  
  Studies have shown who you pick as VP doesn’t make much difference. And particularly in this case, with Trump such a polarizing figure, everyone either loves him or hates him. 
  I can’t imagine there are any voters out there who would say “well I wasn’t going to vote for Trump but I really like Stefanik”, or “I was going to vote for Trump but I just hate Noem.” 
  At this point you are either Trump yes or Trump no, the running mate doesn’t matter. >
  
  Sarah Palin definitely didn’t help as a VP candidate. >
  
  Pence did, though. Lots of GOP voters assumed he'd be a steady hand at the wheel or something. At the very least, a conservative white guy who at least knew how to quote the bible correctly gave evangelicals license to vote for the serial womanizer, rapist, and all-around pimp of Babylon at the top of the ticket. >
  
  I'd say they were right.  If Trump had gone for an MTG figure do you think that person certifies the result on January 6 2021? >
  
  No. However I'm not sure that did much but delay the inevitable fate that the next Republican VP will decline to certify Democratic EC votes. >
  
  Congress just passed the Electoral Count Reform Act to make it clear the vice president has no such power. Mitch McConnell made sure it wasn’t obstructed in the Senate. >
  
  As if words on a page will stop the MTGs of the GOP from trying >
  
  They can try all they want, it isn't going to work, the military is unlikely to view that as the legitimate government.
  Before the Electoral Count Reform Act, there was at least a pretense of a legal argument that they could do that. >
  
  “You know, I was President once before (and I’ll be it again I can guarantee that!) and I don’t think the Vice President does much. No, no they do not. So I think what I’m gonna do is run as the President and Vice President. That how good I am, I can do both and I’m the only person I trust to do both jobs properly. 😎” >
  
  Literally gave me pause that it might be a real quote >
  
  MTG has no chance.  
  Gabbard would get him the most votes.
  Realistically I think Stefanik. >
  
  Stefanik would be the best choice, but Trump will choose whoever vows undying loyalty to him over the country (or the party even). That is his number one requirement, and he hates Pence for "betraying" him by not trying to overthrow the election. Guys like Trump are (rightly) paranoid about betrayal because he breaks the law and needs everyone to cover for him. >
  
  I have to wonder now, why did he accept Pence to run with him in the first place? Because he thought it'd help him win? Because the Republican establishment demanded it?