comment: >
  
  Too little, too late. This is damage control
context: He’s not wrong. >
  
  I came to say he’s right. In other words we agree. >
  
  It’s in the Bible these people have never read. >
  
  tbh you can cherry pick anything out of that book >
  
  i wanna see more of the super horny verses from song of solomon out there >
  
  I can never get enough of Reverend Barber making republican governor Bill Lee squirm in his seat ten feet behind him. >
  
  I’m an atheist through and through but it is so refreshing to see someone with this pastors perspective in a leadership role within the church. Nearly every “Christian” I know claims to love the poor and to have a relationship with Jesus but every single one of them disparages immigrants, universal healthcare and looks down on people suffering from poverty..they don’t even see the irony in it. They praise an individual who literally espouses the opposite of every thing I ever learned at church or was taught growing up without a hint of self awareness. I listened to most of this sermon while agreeing with nearly every word and I haven’t heard this logical of a take from a “believer” in a loooong time..thank you for sharing. >
  
  There are tons of Christians who don’t buy into the right wing or nationalism, or even conservatism in general. The Trump brand of Christians make all the noise and subsequently get all the attention because people are drawn to the culture war. >
  
  The media has long since equated christians with the right.  It isn't the case but you'd need a powerful spokesperson to change the narrative.  Likely result would be following in the footsteps of his savior. >
  
  The Right has long since equated christianity with themselves. >
  
  They have but it's the complicity in accepting their premise that bugs me. >
  
  It's not the job of secular society to change that though, it is the job of the rest of the Church universal to do so by working to frustrate and convert the evangelical far right. >
  
  I kind of see it as the media's job to drop the lazy shorthand.  
  I don't have a job list for secular society but open mindedness might be on it.  Not universalizing where there is only a surface similarity seems like a good practice. >
  
  Popular media isn't going to do that though, thats not how the media dynamic works. American media chases stories. If we want to change their perception/portrayal, we need to give them better stories to cover. >
  
  There are always better stories to cover, and plenty of them. But the American media business model has been founded on selling conflict and intrigue for generations, because that’s what we pay attention to. The only way that a better Christianity is going to capture the attention of the media is by becoming a worse Christianity. >
  
  The fact that this is a 'take' is sad in itself.
  I don't know where American Christianity became about being better than others. >
  
  Pretty much the opposite, Pharisees where the religious zealots. Jesus was all about the heart of actions and not the appearance, something that is much needed in this hour. >
  
  Jesus was talking about the separation of church & state a long time before Thomas Jefferson was. That whole "Render unto Caesar" speech, for example. >
  
  I mean you're giving a lot of credit to people who clearly never read the Bible. >
  
  I think the point is to discredit them with their ignorance of or ignoring their own professed religion.  I’ve said that there is no such thing as a “conservative Christian” (i.e. it’s an oxymoron) because they have to ignore too many of their own scriptures.  “It would be easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven.”  “As you treat these, the least of my children, so do you treat me.”  Etc, etc, etc.
  They want the label to use as a cudgel against others, but none of the ethics or responsibilities associated with it.  And that’s the basic nature of heresy. >
  
  Christian Nationalists hide behind Christianity, when in reality the represent the opposite of traditional Christian principles. 
  
  Luke 14:13-14 (NIV)
  “But when you give a banquet, invite the poor, the crippled, the lame, the blind, and you will be blessed. Although they cannot repay you, you will be repaid at the resurrection of the righteous.
  
  Chrinats despise the poor, and often blame them for all their problems. 
  
  Matthew 25: 31-40. 
  “I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me.”
  
  Chrinats hate immigrants, they are almost entirely defined by this hatred of ‘others’
  
  Matthew 6:24 ESV 
  “No one can serve two masters, for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and money.
  Matthew 19:24 ESV 
  ”Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to enter the kingdom of God.”
  
  Chrinats abhor social policies that help everyone in favor of worshiping money and deifying the rich (like Elon Mu$k)
  But this is the best Bible verse to describe Christian Nationalism:
  
  Isaiah 29:13 
  And so the Lord says, “These people say they are mine. They honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. And their worship of me is nothing but man-made rules learned by rote. >
  
  I usually just quote the Sermon on the Mount at christnats.
  It makes them really fucking mad >
  
  Gee, if it makes those so-called christians mad, it would make Christ themself absolutely furious that this religion has screwed up the world in so many ways. All because they had no concept of literacy or respecting the word of GOD. >
  
  If Christ actually were to come back, these hypocrites would crucify him all over again. 
  I’d say may the curses of God be upon them, but we all know what God thinks of hypocrites anyway so it’s pointless. >
  
  
  On that day many will say to me, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?' And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from me, you evildoers.'
  
  (Matthew 7:21-23) >
  
  Really quite a bit of the Gospel of Matthew is prime material to rebuke them. >
  
  I just think it's funny that I, as someone of a Zen persuasion, find myself quoting the Bible at these folks on occasion. I'm supposed to be the apostate, not them! 
  It's so hard to maintain a compassionate view of those folks. Because, in truth, they are misguided souls worthy of pity -- it is their acts and apparent goals that render them abhorrent. I can think of no greater betrayal of the philosophy of Jesus than their rendering of hatred and scorn as "love and compassion". At every turn, they shirk his teachings in favor of fear and fervor. 
  When people say they'd crucify Jesus again, that's a little off target: for he said that as we treated others, we so treated Him. They would not simply crucify Jesus again, they have been crucifying him over and over again for decades if not centuries if not millennia. Every time they fear monger about immigrants, they turn their backs to Him. Every time they call for violence against their enemies abroad, they put a bullet through Jesus. Every time they elect to reward the rich and discard the poor, they let Jesus starve in the street. 
  The worst part of all is how they rationalize their hatreds and exclusions as being matters of "belief in Jesus" or "religion." I think that's an equally bullshit excuse for the mistreatment of others regardless of religion. And as a layperson who has studied a number of religions, such bullshit often goes against the sort of "golden rule" at the heart of most religions: that you treat people the way you wish to be treated, and don't treat others how you don't want to be treated. 
  I mean, take the recent trans panic in the GOP. That bullshit fails right at the "golden rule" test. Just because you don't understand someone doesn't mean you get to treat them as subhuman predators -- and you cede the moral high ground in doing so. It is unequivocally "the wrong side of history" shit. >
  
  Ex evangelical here. I think a good % of them are truly evil people using Jesus as a shield for their hate and greed.
  I always suspected that was there lurking underneath the surface, but it wasn’t until Trump came and their leaders gave them permission to take the mask off that I couldn’t lie to myself anymore about their hearts. >
  
  I feel the same way. I don't follow any religion. >
  
  I am an atheist who lives in North Carolina, and I’ve been on several marches led by Rev Barber. This man represents the best of what religion should be. I am also a trans woman, and I appreciate his support for the LGBTQ community. Our Lt Governor, Mark Robinson, is the polar opposite: he’s an outspoken LGBTQ bigot. >
  
  Ah, one of the rare public examples of a person exemplifying the way I was taught Christianity is supposed to be. Loving people, and making sure they have enough to eat and live rather than what they do in their personal lives. It’s a breath of fresh air. >
  
  American Christianity seems incredibly weird to Europeans. It’s like you guys read the Old Testament and never found out there was a volume 2. >
  
  They never read or studied any of the bible. Their idea of god is a being who is the ultimate embodiment of authority. It's a Christianity themed cult that worships the concept of authority. >
  
  You're not far off. US "Christianity" comes from the heretical beliefs of the Puritans, along with the "Protestant work ethic"  (named by Max Weber to describe the enfolding of Calvinism into Protestantism as a way of blessing the acquisition of wealth). In other words, wealth is godly and richly deserved while being poor is a sin. Therefore, authority is based on protecting the godly from the heathen poor. >
  
  This makes some of my extended families beliefs about the homeless much clearer, thank you. I could never understand it >
  
  You're welcome. Most of their arguments against the poor is that by accepting charity or begging for handouts, the poor are trying to gain wealth without working for it. They conveniently forget about wealthy families where some have never worked a day in their life. Also they don't consider laws enacted for the wealthy to gain and keep even more wealth as charity. 
  I guess I'll never get a time machine. If I did, I'd go back to Plymouth Rock and sink those Pilgrim ships before they ever reached land. But it would be neat to imagine a North America based on North American natives, Vikings, and European penalty colony inmates. >
  
  I'd take out Paul of Tarsus. If nobody sells Christianity to the Romans, it's not likely to consume the fucking world in short order. The whole future of the recent past would be incredibly different. Hopefully better, but certainly different. >
  
  Modern day pharisees. All rules, no substance. >
  
  
  The same forces demonizing immigrants are also attacking low-wage workers,” the North Carolina pastor said in an interview several years ago. “The same politicians denying living wages are also suppressing the vote; the same people who want less of us to vote are also denying the evidence of the climate crisis and refusing to act now; the same people who are willing to destroy the Earth are willing to deny tens of millions of Americans access to health care
  
  This is the best quote of his in there. I'm always impressed by the ability of Christian Republicans to justify total villainy. >
  
  He is correct. It is idol worship. Their god is their belly. Greed, power, corruption, hatred of “the stranger or other”. 
  In the United States there is no state sanctioned religion. It’s unconstitutional. >
  
  It's also a violation of their Tax Exempt status, but the MAGA IRS is fine with it. >
  
  Say it louder >
  
  I grew up Catholic in another country and it's mind blowing to me as well. It took a while to understand how different it was. >
  
  This man is a force of nature. >
  
  ‘My kingdom is not of this world.’ Jesus speaking to Pontius Pilot. >
  
  Well no shit. Next he’s going to tell me the beatitudes were more then a suggestion. >
  
  He's right. >
  
  Say it louder for the people in the back!
  I am an agnostic-atheist and I do not mind if you believe in a god or praise Jesus. Just don't make your religion your personality... Or shove it down other people's throat (this is also for the atheist extremists too). There is reason why we have the separation between church and state... Thomas Jefferson even wrote about it for Christ's sake. >
  
  Jesus himself steadfastly refused to take the reins of temporal governance to enforce his message/authority, even though it was what was expected of a Messiah and even when the crowds turned against him for this refusal. >
  
  He should say that because he is correct. >
  
  He should. It is. >
  
  Rev. Barber is a very effective speaker and leader, but he is extremely progressive. People sympathetic to Christian nationalism are just going to call him a "marxist" and whatever he says an "attack on Christianity." >
  
  Bible is pretty progressive too >
  
  He’s right and he should say it. >
  
  Christian nationalism is for the uncivilized. Folks that aren’t ready to be conscious members of a society. >
  
  I'm torn.  As an individual, I appreciate this man for his honesty, bravery and conviction.  But, as far as the overall body of Christian leadership is concerned, his viewpoint is woefully and despicably underrepresented. 
  So, while I'll commend this man as an individual, I still condemn the body as a whole.  Maybe his bravery will steel others in the group to step out of the shadow.   Until they do, I've no respect for them. >
  
  He's absolutely correct - it's a form of "theological malpractice" and heresy.
  It's past time somebody pointed it out.
  The lies, the hypocrisy, the hate, and the misguided calls to violence are way beyond anything decent, let alone Christian. >
  
  People at the top of Christian nationalism generally don’t care if what they do is heresy. Only that they are the ones in control >
  
  Render unto Caesar things that are Caesar's and God's to God™
  Actual Jesus Statement about government. 
  Taking over a government for a theocracy has a long history.  It is about absolute power not religion. >
  
  Please notice that he's not a Southern White. >
  
  There are a few voices of reason, but they are too often drowned out by the clamor of the crowd and the demagogues who pander to it. >
  
  Truth. There’s a substantial number of white evangelicals who didn’t vote for Trump in 2016. It was a smaller number in 2020 for reasons that I haven’t figured out yet. They probably would not vote for a Democrat but they won’t vote for Trump.
  It’s not a majority of them. But it’s a large part of the really active membership, the folks who give time and money. They don’t make the most noise but their absence is felt more and more over time. Churches lose whatever they had going for them as far as addiction recovery ministries, food pantries, or whatever and just become ugly grievance factories in a death spiral. >
  
  That doesn’t explain what I saw >
  
  Christo-fascists don’t give a rip what Rev Barber says or thinks. Their hatred of their co-religionists is legendary. >
  
  Yeah Rev Barber, to them, is of a similar ilk to Jessie Jackson and Al Sharpton.   The pastors who matter to them are people like Franklin Graham, Jerry Falwell (Sr), John Hagee, and others from a Southern Baptist tradition. >
  
  Cause it is. >
  
  Christians have been fighting with each other for a long time. >
  
  One of the tenets of Christian nationalism is to violate the 1st commandment. >
  
  “When Fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross"?
  Sinclair Lewis >
  
  That's Christians in a nutshell. 
  If Jesus was real, and he did indeed come back, Christians would be lining up to crucify him. Most American Christians lead real hard into being "conservative," which is the opposite of almost everything behind those teachings. 
  With the number of Christian churches in this country, we should have zero people sleeping on the streets. With the money, and influence they wield in politics no one should be worried about healthcare. 
  What do they do with their time, and resources? Spend it making lives harder for those that do not fit within their ideology for what a person is supposed to do with their identity, and love. 
  For all the "Christians" in this country, I can't say I've ever met one that follows the teaching of Christ. When someone tells me they're christian, and especially in the first 15 minutes of meeting them, I can guarantee something racist/ bigoted is going to be spewed from their face hole. 
  I really wish that we could follow the separation of church and state. 
  Freedom of religion, means freedom of being subjected to others' religions. I don't go to their church, or homes and push my views on them. I don't try to convert them to atheism. They sure as shit don't stop coming to my door, or feel like they have a say in all our lives. They're in it for that hate. Almost all of them. It's no wonder so many young people are leaving the church in droves. It's all an antiquated institution, that is supposed to serve as a moral compass, from their view, but in reality it just fuels hatred and violence against anyone that's the "other." That 'other' category includes anyone from a different branch. 
  
  Mahatma Gandhi — 'I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.' >
  
  He's right, and it is entirely our (Christians) fault for letting it get this bad. >
  
  Yes. That’s exactly what it is. >
  
  Joke's on him, these people don't give a flying f*ck about Christianity unless it serves their lazy bigoted selfishness. They'll just move on to another cult justifying their need to hurt others.
  Inb4 "American Islam" becomes a thing for white suburbanites. >
  
  Probably something about “worshiping false idols”… >
  
  Bible fight! >
  
  He’s right >
  
  I was born again at 17. Based on everything I’ve learned I can literally say and do fucking anything I want and I did. 
  I became a rock broadcaster after traveling country and doing as many jobs as i can I also became a business owner. Married three times and now living in the US. 
  What I’ve never done was become a Christian. MOST not ALL are lying sacks of shit and not worthy of the notion of being part of an understanding that is about peace and love for all creatures big and small. 
  Anyone tells you they are a Christian, you pay heed mister. >
  
  Me too but maybe for a different reason: needing a government to prop up God’s power would mean that he’s weak as hell. >
  
  Good to see some people dont use religion as a guise to be an asshole >
  
  Too few and far between. I respect those Christians and how they embody their faith. Televangelists and for profit prophets simply disgust me. >
  
  Good pastor >
  
  Amen >
  
  Super proud to be a part of his denomination (and even region). I met him once a few years ago at a regional conference, and he's an amazing man. I'm very happy to find a church that actually embraces what Jesus taught, like heal the sick, help those in need, lift up the oppressed, drink some wine (my pastor's husband owns a pub), and the fact that we're minutes from Bob Jones University fills me with unmitigated glee! >
  
  I like him already. >
  
  Oh look, an actual man of god >
  
  HES RIGHT! Jesus came to end the empires, Christian nationalism is an oxymoron. When God formed Israel, they asked for a king, and God said no, straight up, but they kept asking and God told them he elected a king who’s thoughts was representative of them. On top of that, the government Jesus decided to present himself next to, was a republic. >
  
  Good christians have let the fanatics highjack their religion.  They need to take it back fast as it is dying in this country. >
  
  Of course it is. It's cult mentality, not faith. >
  
  It literally embodies just about everything the writers of the Bible warned us about. >
  
  Including the antichrist. >
  
  That is correct, unfortunately he will probably be ostracized from American Christianity. >
  
  You’re probably right … and that’s terrible.  Somehow “Christianity” in our country has become synonymous with “white nationalism,” “evengelicisim,” and some really extreme “nationalist” ideas.  
  Having a man (a black man, at that), point out these flaws, must just have these extemist Christians seething.
  Sadly, there are true Christians in our country, who deeply believe in Christ’s many commandments to love their neighbor, the poor, the enemies, etc.
  It’s interesting to me, and heartbreaking really, that this hypocrisy of “religious” principles exists in America.  And at the expense of those of us who, even as sinners, actually make the best effort to be good humans. 
  I recall GW Bush calling terrorist people who have “hijacked Islam.”  I feel that we are in a place where white extremism has done the same with Christianity. >
  
  Most evangelical behaviour is heresy >
  
  Isn’t Christianity heresy? Weren’t people like the celts forced to become Christian or face the knife?
  Isn’t Christian mythology just a combination of remixed stories codified by other cultures thousands of years before?
  Why don’t people go back to whatever beliefs their people traditionally held? >
  
  The fact that I have to respect others' belief in deities/mythology today is confounding.  But speaking out makes one look like an obnoxious edge lord. >
  
  For the most part, religion is the worst thing mankind ever invented. 
  A belief in God allows people to justify all manner of horrible things. 
  It's time to outgrow magical thinking. >
  
  I think I like him! >
  
  I try not to pay attention to what pastors say, but if a pastor is going to take a stance, let it be this type of stance. >
  
  They’re all arguing over a fake sky daddy anyway. It’s an argument over who is following a fantasy book with more fidelity. They’re all loons. >
  
  People like this are real Christians. American evangelicals are Christians in name only >
  
  As an atheist I don't believe anyone who espouses any religion actually gives a shit about people more than money and power. And even if this man is the exception, he will be silenced  by his cohort one way or another, and it won't take long. >
  
  Yes but what can be done about it.  I have given up.  I’m related to a bunch of people who would love to see Christian Nationalism take over and white people lord over everyone else.  Im just so tired.  The idiots are running the show, may karma be the ultimate judge. >
  
  Form of facisim and propaganda too, but who's counting. >
  
  Explain >
  
  Not much to explain. It's been pretty self explanatory for decades. >
  
  Okay, thanks for the analysis >
  
  Well churches becoming political and weaponizing their position to push a narrative to their constituency isn't propaganda? And then the fact they want to basically punish anyone different than them isn't facisim? >
  
  This No True Christian fallacy has to stop. Christian nationalists are not some kind of anomaly. Christians have been like this since Constantine. There hasn't been a time since the inception of Christianity were the most powerful Christian nations weren't oppressing or making war on everyone else. >
  
  Damn it took a while to see a comment like this! Wtf is going on in this thread?? One religious leader makes a progressive statement far outside of most other followers viewpoints and somehow he's the TRUE CHRISTIAN!! Kill me.  Also, can the rational adults maybe mention that, ya know, none of that religion shit is real?