comment: >
  
  If I were Mr. Putin, I would pay ZERO mind to whatever tanks (or pleases) that Poland 🇵🇱🇵🇱🇵🇱 would send over. Now if 🇵🇱 sent Iga S. into the fray - then look out - the conflict would be over in less than 56 minutes!!!  Can you imagine if Sweden sent Greta to Ukraine? That conflict would be over in 2 minutes!!! How dare you ??!!!???!!!???!!!?!?!?
context: Outside of Germany there are 12 more countries with Leopards in the EU all of them could have started training Ukrainian Soldiers on the tanks weeks ago. Hasnt happen yet. Curious why. >
  
  Those with the most Leopard 2s are Greece and Turkey, and they might still need them to fight each other. >
  
  I hate to be that guy in again, but why the fuck did Germany sell Leopards to turkey? >
  
  Turkey is a NATO partner and European adjacent state, which before their current descent into authoritarianism was one of the most progressive nations in the region. >
  
  The public position of the Germany was not to sell weapons to the country at war.
  But TK is always at war. >
  
  Man I'm very much in the "only reason we keep Turkey in NATO is to avoid them not being in NATO ..." but your argument is missing the mark by several miles.
  Turkey is far from always at war, and Germany has been fine selling weapons and weapons components to the US, the UK and France while we've essentially been in non stop conflict the past 60 years. >
  
  What about the German/Egyptian arms sales worth billions since 2010, during a military dictatorship which murders it owns citizens? Umm. >
  
  It's goofy to imply German weapons are used in Egypt to arbitrarily murder Egyptian citizens. Germany is selling them air defense systems and warships.
  If you want to be outraged about those arms deals it would also be reasonable to include France, Italy and the United States in the list of shame. >
  
  Egypt literally used TH390 Fahds to roll over protesters though. Nothing goofy about that. >
  
  They also used their shiny new Abrams. >
  
  Wait, wasn't the coalition ready to go two weeks ago? Didn't everybody but Germany already agree on Friday? Wasn't all that just a formality waiting for the German approval? Wasn't Poland ready to send their Tanks now, even if Germany refuses? I am getting conflicting Signals there, Poland. >
  
  Yep. Polish government is trying to score usual anti Germany points here. They didn't even sent the export request that Germany said would agree with. >
  
  Habeck, Pistorius, and Baerbock, the ministers in charge, have already said they "will not stand in the way if Poland sends Leopard tanks to Ukraine", so what is Poland waiting for? >
  
  Poland: "Yeah ... us and our friends will do this alone as we always do! Hey Hungary, are you in?"
  Hungary (Orban): "Uhm ... not on this one, pal. We like Russian pipeline oil." >
  
  More like: hold me back bro...
  But no one is actually holding back Poland. They could have made a formal request with paperwork etc. but they didn't... almost as if the election is getting closer in Poland... >
  
  I didn't follow the news closely. but why Poland need Germany's approval to start with ? >
  
  They are German made. It's common to have re-export restrictions in the contracts. The thing is Poland as of yet has not made any official requests to re-export them. Elections are coming up and in Poland Germany bad seems to be a working campaign >
  
  Good tread summarizing whats happening right now.
  TLDR: Poland likely felt left out after the IFV announcement, made a big announcement of sending Leopard 2's conditional on there being an alliance, and then started backpeddaling when it became clear they actually were quite alone with this in europe by claiming a german blockade. >
  
  
  Are you guys insane?
  
  Generally not.
  Its more experience in dealing with polish politics over the last few years. The MiG-desaster, the PzH2000 repair center bullshit, Kaczinsky's "enemy in the west" speech - PiS doesn't leave out any chance to throw shit at Germany every time they can.
  And in this case, there was a big announcement by them a few weeks ago about sending Leopards - and nothing has happened in that regard. Instead, Duda and Morawiecki played strong by claiming they would circumvent a supposed german blockade, despite our gov being clear about them not having any problems with the poles sending their Leopards. Right now, it looks a lot like Poland backpeddaling on their initial statement while trying to blame us (again).
  All the while reddit is going apeshit on Scholz while the supposed coalition of Leopard delivering countries remains mostly unknown and incredibly inactive, with other countries like the US being clear on a no-delivery-policy aswell, which for some reason receives no backlash at all. >
  
  Dude, random German redditors don't have any political pull. They are controlling the tank spigot. Whatever a German on reddit does, it is just their own opinions like the rest of us, with 0 geopolitical action. This is just social media were we endless argue, not actually decide things or affect policy. >
  
  How to stay in the media till elections?
  Blame Germany and brag to send tanks which never happens...
  If that fails ask Germany for reperations of 300 billion for Ww2 >
  
  Which germany responds" we already paid those" and the cycle continues >
  
  Technically Poland waived any remaining reparations in exchange for recognising the Oder-Neisse border with Germany.
  So, in a sense, if Poland were to actually push the claim, it could open a can of worms that no one should want to open (i.e. unravelling the 2+4 treaty). >
  
  But since Germany already paid, they should ask Russia(who collected in their name) for the money. 
  Or renegotiate 2+4 and give back the land, which would be utterly crazy and moronic. >
  
  This is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 73%. (I'm a bot)
  
  
  If Germany won't play ball, then Poland will find other partners to deliver Leopard 2 battle tanks to Ukraine, Polish Prime Minister Mateusz Morawiecki said in pointed remarks accusing Berlin of foot-dragging in its support of Kyiv against invading Russian forces.
  Poland is prepared to go around German opposition to build a "Smaller coalition" of countries and find allies willing to send the tanks to Ukraine, Morawiecki said in an interview with the Polish Press Agency published on Sunday.
  His remarks come amid a heated debate over whether to send the German-made battle tanks to Ukraine.
  
  
  Extended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Ukraine^#1 tanks^#2 Morawiecki^#3 Berlin^#4 send^#5 >
  
  It's crazy that the US can use and supply Abrams in Iraq, and now argue the logistics would be impossible in this European war. Their solution is that neighbouring countries, like Poland should
  
  donate their Leos that are the "only tanks suited for the conflict"
  replace them with new Abrams to prepare for this exact type of war
  
  Shouldn't they encourage Poland to buy more Leos in that case? Do they have another reason? It can't be money since they donate a lot of equipment like the HIMARS and Bradleys etc. >
  
  A lot of HIMARS were already present in Europe and part of the US’s strategic weapons in Europe. They could be transported to Ukraine via train. 
  Your comparison to Iraq is off the mark. Tanks were rapidly deployed in Iraq via airlift after the US dominated the skies. Then tanks were offloaded via sea transport from the Persian gulf. Neither of those options are feasible in Ukraine without the US/NATO imposing a no-fly zone or confronting the Russia Navy. As it stands, it is far more logistically feasible to put Leopards on a train and deliver them to Ukraine. Maybe countries like Germany should actually step up for once.
  In addition, Leopards are far more easy to repair with closer supply lines for spare parts. >
  
  Why would they have to have air superiority over Poland to airlift tanks? >
  
  They wouldn’t; that’s the point. There’s already a lot of Leopards that could be easily distributed with rail transport. In Iraq, Air superiority was needed due to the lack of rail infrastructure. The tanks were delivered on C-17s. This is why the comparison is not apropos. >
  
  You don't understand their point. Just ship the tanks and spare parts to Poland and then use the railroads like you want it for the Leo's. >
  
  You don’t understand my point. What sense does it make to do that when there are already leopards in Poland and more maintenance facilities and spare parts? >
  
  Oh, they're now "ready to build smaller colation". Funny I thought there was already a coalition in place after all the shitslinging especially from Poland.
  Was that maybe a little bit inaccurate? >
  
  This is all PiS politicking. They need to sling shit at Germany and complain about the EU. >
  
  Great, let them do it. But I wont be shocked if they will find another "reason" to point the blame at someone else again when they achieve nothing. >
  
  Moving goalposts.. i thought they were going to send them regardless of what Germany said.
  Its like the migs all over again.. typical >
  
  German foreign an economic minister already said,nthey would approve polish export requests >
  
  Oh look, Politico is continuing the electoral campaign for PiS. >
  
  More of that "HOLD ME BACK BRO IM SERIOUS" Poland nonsense. Just do it and see who follows, don't make it a political power struggle or your own gain. Its just gross and insulting. >
  
  So send the fucking tanks and not just announce it, for fuck's sake. God, sometimes I hate the country I live in. >
  
  They can't, it's a violation of their contract with Germany. They do that and Poland will never get another tank from anyone. >
  
  
  They can't, it's a violation of their contract with Germany.
  
  Germany has already said multiple times they don't veto Poland sending tanks. This is just Poland playing poker. >
  
  That is not true. Germany has ~~said that they will not~~ refused to say whether it will support Poland sending its Leos to Ukraine. Just because they haven't officially vetoed it doesn't mean they haven't made their position clear. >
  
  
  Germany has said that they will not support Poland sending its Leos to Ukraine
  
  Source please? >
  
  Oh actually, you're right. Germany has not said they won't support it, they simply refuse to say that they will support it when asked informally by Poland, the US, and the rest of NATO. Guess what? THATS THE SAME THING. Germany is not fooling anyone, and in the meantime, they're pissing off their biggest allies AND their enemies. I guess Germany never learned a single thing from WWII. >
  
  So no source, great.
  Based in constitutional law and is therefore absolutely non-negotiable any such request has to be processed by the Ministery of Economy (declared they won't block) and forwarded to the Bundessicherheitsrat to be voted on on a case by case basis.  Even if every single member of the Bundessicherheitsrat would declare his or her support here and now, a formal request and a vote would still be required. 
  Nobody can grant an imaginary export request. What is it anyway these days? Poland going on their own? With or without Agreement of Germany? Poland and their broad coalition formed two weeks ago? Everybody but Germany agreeing on sending Tanks at Ramstein? Poland only building a Coalition now in case Germany does not send Tanks? Who is requesting what? How should anybody decide on this mess?
  Such a request does not have to be decided upon right away, nor has a decision be declared in advance - see the Estonian export request for Howitzers last year. There is absolutely no excuse not to do the necessary and hand in the request so actual negotiations and decisions can finally start. Poland has not done that. WHY???? >
  
  You can repeat the same thing all you want, it won't make what you're saying rational. Nobody is asking Germany to make a FORMAL commitment to a non-existent request. They are asking Germany, in consultation with its security council, to make an INFORMAL statement of its position. Germany doesn't have to go through the entire formal process to have an informal position. Wtf don't you understand about that? >
  
  
  They are asking Germany, in consultation with its security council, to make an INFORMAL statement of their position.
  
  Which has already been made. >
  
  Literally in the last hour. But not at the time the article in this post was posted... >
  
  Germany is the first country to see the writing on the wall. Europe as a whole has been de-industrialized, Germany more than the others. So once the Leopard stocks have been drained from everywhere how are they going to be replaced? Germany no longer has the industry,energy or raw materials to produce more.
  Europe will be solely reliant on the US to produce weapons and the US can use that as leverage over national policies >
  
  You're saying this like that wasn't the case forever. Remember when nato literally ran out of munitions in Libya and had to borrow some from the us? >
  
  They ran low on specific munitions, not in general. >
  
  That's very reassuring. Guess they took a page out of Russia's doctrine >
  
  Having an ally that makes up for limitations is a major distinction. >
  
  I can understand why Poland is so motivated. If Ukraine falls, then Russia is right on their border. Fuck that! >
  
  They are so motivated to talk a lot, because they will vote soon. >
  
  Why doesn't Poland request the tanks because... reasons... and then just give them to Ukraine themselves if Germany are too bitch to do it themselves. >
  
  Meanwhile, China patiently waiting for western countries to deplete their military stocks. >
  
  Who is getting in a land war with China? >
  
  That's not how this works Poland... >
  
  Solution: the U.S. donates Abrams tanks to Ukraine, and Ukraine stations the Abrams tanks near the Belarusian border. Now Germany is obliged to send Leopard tanks. >
  
  Alternative solution: France, Italy or UK lease 300 Leopards from Germany (as backfill) and send 300 of their own MBTs to Ukraine.
  Though I do like your solution a lot as well. >
  
  The UK doesn't operate Leos, but we are sending some of our MBTs >
  
  12 or 14? >
  
  I get it. Poland shares a border of Ukraine and is more concerned. But has the German leadership reviewed what happened the last time the Russians came marching thru Eastern Europe? It didn’t end well for Germany… >
  
  Well, then Poland could send that official request to Germany, since the vice-chancellor already said that as soon as they get it they'll approve it anyway? >
  
  Germany has been saying a million things talking out of both sides of its mouth. Olaf is a fucking coward and should resign immediately , his dissimulations cost lives. What a clown. Nothing they say now is reliable. All trust gone. What a childish response, “oh they didn’t ask officially so we didn’t knooow.” While children die. >
  
  Germany under evil Olaf is the 2nd largest aid giver to Ukraine after the US. >
  
  NATO is a joke >
  
  Heard some good m1a2s down road in Afghanistan >
  
  Literally in one lifetime we’ve gone from Germany being too into war, to not enough. And people say people can’t change. >
  
  Can someone please explain to me, what is Germany's endgame in all of this? Why would Germany be willing to isolate itself from the rest of the Alliance in order to avoid pissing off Russia? While I'm sure Russia still has means of retaliating against Germany economically, the US and the rest of NATO are the only ones with the ability to offset any actions Russia might take. Why would Germany choose to piss off NATO, given that its already chosen to piss off Russia? It makes no sense! >
  
  i dont even know what you are talking about, germany has not denied anyones wish to export their own tanks, germany simply is currently not ready to give away their own tanks.
  You know, like everyone else (US included). >
  
  Yes they have. Germany has ~~said that they will not~~ refused to say whether it will support Poland sending its Leos to Ukraine. Just because they haven't formally received a request and formally veto'd it doesn't mean they haven't said that they oppose it. >
  
  There is no such request yet. Poland needs to submit a formal request for the Bundessicherheitsrat to decide upon and refuses to do so, because they are not ready to send Leopards alone and don't yet have a coalition of partners behind them on this issue (see OP).
  Morawiecki himself does not claim that any requests are blocked, he just did not receive a "pretty please, do so" from Berlin.
  
  “Since Minister Pistorius denies that Germany is blocking the supply of tanks to Ukraine, I would like to hear a clear declaration that Berlin supports sending them,” the prime minister told the Polish Press Agency."
  
  If Poland cared to send their Leopards alone now or had an standing coalition willing to do so they would finally request the permit, full stop. >
  
  Why would they send a request until Germany has said that they will approve it? Germany has not done that. WHY???? >
  
  You know, it is realy tiresome having to repeat everything over and over again:
  
  Poland needs to submit a formal request for the Bundessicherheitsrat to decide upon
  
  Such requests, once made, need to be decided upon by majority vote by the Bundessicherheitsrat on a case by case basis. Even if every single member of the Bundessicherheitsrat would declare his or her support here and now, a formal request and a vote would still be required. This is based in constitutional law and is therefore absolutely non-negotiable.
  Such a request does not have to be decided upon right away, nor has a decision be declared in advance - see the Estonian export request for Howitzers last year. There is absolutely no excuse not to do the necessary and hand in the request so actual negotiations and decisions can finally start. Poland has not done that. WHY???? >
  
  You are repeating what you've said over and over because it is ILLOGICAL. The answer to the question, "Will Germany allow Poland to send its Leopard tanks to Ukraine?" CANNOT be "Will Poland send a formal request?" You cannot answer a question with a question. The Bundessicherheitsrat is controlled by the the majority coalition government, which is headed by the Chancellor. There is no reason to believe that the Bundessicherheitsrat would not support whatever decision the Chancellor makes. 
  
  There is absolutely no excuse not to do the necessary and hand in the request so actual negotiations and decisions can finally start. Poland has not done that. WHY????
  
  Because developing and submitting that request takes time and government resources. There is no reason for Poland to spend ANY time or resources submitting a request unless Germany has informally agreed to support it. 
  Stop trying to play games, because it's not working >
  
  Your logic is ass-backward. Allow me to fix it: you cannot decide upon a request that is only being hinted at but never made. Of curse I can answer the question with a question, this isn't Kindergarden. If step A is required for step B to start is is valid to ask if A has been completed.
  The Bundessicherheitsrat consists of members of the Bundesregierung, true - 4 of the 9 votes are safely in favour of any export, and even Scholz so far has at least not declared against it. Unanimity is not required, nobody can speak for all nine until there is a vote, which again, requires something to vote on.
  It is absolutely stupid to discuss what might or might happen, as long as everybody is waiting for a request Poland, and only Poland is delaying the export of polish Leopards. >
  
  Giga chad Poland vs virgin Germany >
  
  12 year old u/web_automatic >
  
  This is a line in the sand and even though some countries want to cross it, none are really sure what the best approach is or what the reaction will be from allies, the global audience, their own citizens and Russia >
  
  Write your reps and encourage them to do more, we need our leaders to care about Ukrainian lives, and for some, sadly, they will only do that if they fear for their jobs. Make it clear that they need you, and tell them how you feel, and tell them what you expect. >
  
  Hmmm, small union, maybe a little Entente if you will >
  
  Let's hope the tanks are not made of paper mache. >
  
  r/ukrainewarvideoreport is currently FILLED with people hating on Germany, I'm not sure if they are Bots, Polish PiS-Fanboys or just Trolls but I'm concerned that the media coverage blaming Germany for everything will have a huge negative impact on Germany's image. >
  
  Germany is the only country that supplies  amo and parts. It will be hard for ukraine to maitain the tanks without germany >
  
  Canada should just give the ones we have. They been sitting in wearhouses for the last 15+ years >
  
  hey mcdonalds can i give the cheeseburger i bought to my friend even though i bought it? >
  
  If “cheeseburger” is code for “machine gun” or “tank”, that’s basically how ITAR works. >
  
  Germany is pretty lame here. C'mon Germany. Do the right thing. >
  
  Politico is nothing but money talks articles. It's like right wing and belongs to german Axel Springer Press, read about these numbnuts. >
  
  The Russians took Berlin away from Germany once, they may well do so again if they are allowed to steal Ukraine. >
  
  Have you heard of nato? >
  
  All that anti-nazi talk from germany is just talk >
  
  I don't mind anyone giving the EU the middle finger when it's called for, but the EU not wanting to escalate this conflict into a full blown war isn't one of those times. 
  Considering how much of Poland was destroyed and damaged during WWII [I was in Warsaw in 2018 and you can still see where buildings used to be and blown out windows and other damage] you would figure that they would not be in a hurry to escalate this. >
  
  Poland saw those issues first hand and they are the ones who want to fight back >
  
  Poland understands the urgency of the moment Germany is still thinking about WW 2 >
  
  Poland is understanding the urgency so much that they forgot to formally ask for an export permit.
  A request several german officials have now said would not be blocked.
  Please spare me with your "poland understands the urgency" garbage.
  The only thing Poland (the government) understands is that people like you eat up any of their dogshit propaganda PR stunts. >
  
  That would really be terrible. 
  Germany needs to get off it's fat arse and do something... anything. The Merkel stagnation was supposed to be over.   
  There's other ways to get around German stagnation... like just doing whatever you want and asking for forgiveness later. >
  
  Really, what's Germany going to do? Their probable course of action is to refuse to sell more tanks to Poland. 
  But Poland no longer needs their tanks, I believe they're getting the K2 from South Korea to ago along with the Abrams. >
  
  Poland already decided to not buy and German tanks anymore last year. 
  Why would Germany refused to sell? You got the order wrong.
  Also Germany never refused to sell tanks. Poland wanted the detailed blueprints and create a licensed build themself. Germany did not want to sell that. And neither the Americans. >
  
  Why didn’t Ukraine buy Tanks while they can and if they didn’t buy them why did they piss Russians off? >
  
  How’d they piss Russia off? They literally did nothing but exist. >
  
  Russians doesn’t say so.