>

I’m active military and confederate flags have been banned on base for a while I’m surprised this took so long, and is getting so much attention now.
Vanquish is quite the word choice >

It's a military academy, they're gonna wage trench warfare against the symbols >

A battle hard(ly) fought over the last 157 or so years. Makes the trench warfare of WWI look positively efficient. >

But seriously,

the oversized plaques, dedicated in 1965, not only featured Lee and other supporters of the Confederacy but an image of an armed man in a hood, with “Ku Klux Klan” written below.

That says a lot that the US military institution put this up in 1965 of all years.... >

A not insignificant segment of Americans "rediscovered their heritage" post WWII. 
Before you ask, it was 100% coincidence that this increased recognition of their heritage coincided with the civil rights movement, because the confederate flag is a symbol of heritage, not racism, and it had absolutely nothing to do with the fact that marginalized groups demanding equality under the law made smooth brained, racist ass WASPs scared that they might have to live in a world where people were not judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character.
/s >


A not insignificant segment of Americans "rediscovered their heritage" post WWII.

Sadly many of my American friends still believe it was the 'war of Northern agression' and talk fondly of the confederacy and pretend it had nothing to do with slavery and that is was all about states rights. >

Ugh, if I had a dollar for every time I've heard the "states' rights" argument - always conveniently overlooking that the only states' right at stake was the right of white slave owners to own slaves. >

Not strictly true. The Southern states also wanted the federal goverment to overrule the Northern states' rights and impose fugitive slave laws there, making it a legal requirement for Northern, anti-slavery members of the public to aid slave catchers, and ruinously penalise anyone who assisted escaped slaves. >

People with absolutely no connection to West Point are gonna go crazy over this. >

"This is an outrage! No son of mine will go to an academy that disrespects the heroes that fought for states rights!"
"Sir, your son was rejected because he reads at a 3rd grade level. It's the opinion of the academy that he should not have a highschool diploma."
"I don't have to stand here and take insults like this! My son is going to apply to other institutions, get accepted, and show you what a fine southern gentleman he is!"
"Cool. Trump University has been shutdown, so maybe try the Wendy's down the street." >

It's about goddamn time! If the military's mission is to protect the United States from all enemies foreign and domestic, then how the fuck were monuments to traitors allowed at military academies? >

Lost cause propaganda infesting the nation since the moment the war ended. >

Teddy Roosevelt was the first president to order the desegregation of the federal government. 
Then the Daughters of the American Confederacy started a massive PR campaign through monuments and early film to convince the country that black men would rape every white woman they saw if given the opportunity. 
Woodrow Wilson then resegregated the federal government and ordered the showing of Klan propaganda in the White House.
If you think about it the civil rights gains of the 1950s and 60s could have happened around WW1 and the 20s if it wasn't for the lost cause propaganda that they spread in the early turn of the century. >

I like how our society celebrated "The Birth of a Nation" given it's racism based plot.
And how we haven't really evolved beyond hatred. Just last night Tucker Carlson declared that Zelensky, a jew, has declared war on Christianity. Literally recycling old KKK ideology. >

Considering how much of the Ukrainian military tends to be made up of hardcore Orthodox Christians, this makes zero sense. >

Very little of what Carlson says makes sense unless you're a member of his target audience. >

I watched his segment on Zelensky's visit, the first time I've watched a full segment of his in years. He'd say awful, insulting, incendiary things and then play a clip of Zelensky that refuted literally everything he'd just said, then when it cut back to Tucker he'd act like it proved everything he'd just said. It was fucking bizarre.
He also said Zelensky looked like a "strip club manager" and then referred to him as a strip club manager throughout the entire segment. It was fucking foul. >

That's par for him.
Also, there's nothing wrong with being a strip club manager, as long as you're not shady about it.
If Tucker Carlson randomly died, I wouldn't be sad. >

You should be ashamed for being so cavalier about someone's death.
Now if Tucker Carlson were forced to spend a week in freakish agony because his genitals were caught in a rusty bear trap and the surrounding forrest were on fire . . . well no one's died yet. >

You had me in the first half. >

Monuments to traitors that were started to be put up in the 1930s to terrorize and demean African Americans. >


A lot of racist stuff happened later than we think. In 1956, Georgia adopted a new flag that was mostly the confederate flag with a meatball on it. 

Later still: starting in 2003, and continuing to today, Georgia has flown a state flag based on the first national flag of the Confederacy, the "Stars and Bars".
People complained about the 1956 flag you mentioned, and this was their response. Small wonder The Onion ran the headline, "Georgia Adds Swastika, Middle Finger To State Flag" >

Damn I always forget how The Onion has pretty much been a staple of the Internet since it began. >

I had a subscription to the print version of The Onion 25 years ago. >

I had the books! >

Yeah, I had a couple of the old books too. Still remember my favorite article in them,  headline was "Babies are stupid according to study" (paraphrasing). >

"Dolphins Evolve Opposable Thumbs: 'Oh, Shit!' Says Humanity" was always my favorite. >

Mine was "Bluesman Announces 12-Bar Delay In Bringing It On Home" >

Overdue but appreciated >

Why would West Point have things celebrating the losers? >

151 Confederate generals graduated there >

It was a bold move for a school to basically go "Look at how many of our alumni became enemies of the state after they graduated." If I bombed an army base, like hell is my old school ever going to be advertising that. >

Given that war was basically the first time graduates from that academy actually had major command positions on both sides I think it makes sense. A west point education shaped that war top to bottom. So I can see why it would be important to the history of the school. >

For those wondering why there were so many in the first place, of the 50 major battles in the civil war, I believe West Point graduates commanded on both sides during 45 of them and the other 5 at least one was a USMA grad.  
The initial battle at Fort Sumter saw a former cadet firing upon his former instructor. 
I always hated the homages to the confederacy when there, thankfully I never had to reside in Lee Barracks. >

That’s cause Lee barracks was fuckin trash. And Sherman wasn’t any better >

Great.  Now if we can just start renaming forts and bases named for traitors. >

That's been addressed. >

It’s been addressed, but not actually dealt with. Many bases are still named for traitorous pieces of shit. >

The usual Federal bureaucracy means that the last of the changes won’t occur until late 2023. >

I can fault them for taking so long to start this process. But I can’t fault them for taking so long to complete it. 
A list of every facility had to be established. The names identified. The names thoroughly researched to figure out which ones are at issue. New names proposed based on each facility’s unique history - and proposed names thoroughly researched for their historical issues, bias in the name selection, appropriate respect to various groups. Then there had to be time for public input at each step of the process. Public forums and discussions. Then the process of identifying everything that has to change (websites, signs, plaques, letterhead, road signs, ID cards, merchandise, etc.), replacements have to be ordered and the steps have to be taken to remove the old stuff and install the new, during supply issues, backlogged work projects, additional budget approval needs, etc. 
If the whole thing takes 5 years to complete that process, I’m good with that. >

The only issue, is that an insane person can be elected at any point in reverse this, right? Like how we were supposed to get Harriet Tubman on the 20? >

Oh yeah… what happened with that? Wasn’t that fairly recently? >

Yeah. Obama did it and Trump rescinded it. >

Yeah that makes sense. Shame. >

It’s expected to debut in 2030 now. >

The best time to remove a Confederate monument is fifty years ago. The second best time is today. >

U mean best time was in 1861? >

many were built far more recently than that >

Yeah yeah, I was just funnin >

Why were there any traitor symbols on the campus? >

The USMA educated a lot of Confederate officers and government officials. The President of the CSA was a Westpoint graduate, as were 151 Confederate Generals. I think it's in poor taste, but the Confederate Arny and USMA are more entangled than most people realize. >

And Ted Bundy went to Washington, doesn’t mean they should have monuments of him up. >

OJ Simpson is still in the Pro Football Hall of Fame... >

Did OJ turn against the league and try to fight them? >

I'd prefer he did that over murdering people. >

I would too, but these generals definitely helped kill many American soldiers. They do not need monuments at any of our military academies (or anywhere else) especially not The United States Military Academy. We should not celebrate traitors >

I think the person I’m replying to deleted their comment before I was done. I’ll post it anyway and let you play guess the arguments. 
They are recognized in our history.  It will always be taught that Lee surrounded and Jackson was shot by his own men. What we don’t want is the post war use of confederate veneration as a psychological threat against people of color. 
All confederate traitors were racist. They wrote it in their articles of succession, their constitutions, their newspapers, and their letters home. The states rights narrative was well documented in its inception at the end of the war. The “Lost Cause” mythology is revisionist history. Nobody cared about southern culture. Especially because it was more Deliverance then Gone with the Wind. 
Nobody is robbing the red states. In fact, the south is the one robbing the coasts. The south is heavily subsidized by northern states. 
The party’s change. The easiest way to tell is that the southern democrats of the 1800’s founded the KKK. The KKK today votes Republican.
I feel you, it sucks to find out people were pulling your leg your whole life. I know people who refuse to admit they were wrong or mislead by sticking to their guns. I’d rather make sure I’m right by getting rid of everything that’s wrong. >

Most people like to claim the confederate flag is about heritage not hate, then why was it originally called "The white mans flag" by William Tappan Thompson and in his explanation of the design he stated "As a people, we are fighting to maintain the Heaven-ordained over the inferior or colored race; a white flag would thus be emblematical of our cause." Later  adopted as the confederate calvary  flag led by none other than Nathan Bedford Forrest, the creator of the KKK? Before the Klu Klux Klan had a flag, they had the stainless Stars and bars. It was always about hate, that is the heritage. >

“And what heritage is that, exactly?” >

The precedent has been there for 240 years. Go to West Point and try to find any mention of Benedict Arnold. They literally scratched his name off of everything there. >

Something that should have been done over 160 years ago. >

The symbol of traitors and enemies to our union in our military academies. How tf did that happen in the first place. Might as well have swastikas on the walls. >


the storied academy will take down a portrait of Lee dressed in his Confederate uniform from its library

There is no coincidence that the photo was put up in the 1950s when the struggle for Civil Rights was gaining steam >

And it was roughly the same time as Lee Barracks was named.   Funny thing is I tried pulling up some research material to look for dedication speeches.  I was trying to see what the public reasoning was and sentiment. >

Imagine being a high performer in high school and choosing to give up your college years to "defend freedom", then when you get there you find that your barracks is named the enslaver of your ancestors. >

“We believe in making treason odious”
-Grand Army of the Republic (the Union veterans association, not the one from Star Wars) >

Good. Confederate monuments are participation trophies for losers and traitors. Get rid of them all. >

Jesus this hasn't been done already?!?! >

Took them long enough, people seem to forget confederates lost the war. >

I never understood why United States Army bases were named after people responsible for the deaths and wounding of hundreds of thousands of United States Army soldiers............................. >

It’s only been 157 years since the end of the Civil War. Way to be on top of things West Point. >

That's very unfair. The monuments didn't even exist until 85 years ago /s >

A lot of soft egos gonna screaming history my heritage lol >

I bet $20 by the end of the day some Fox News host will rant about wokeness destroying the military >

They’re too busy getting grandpa turnt up about zelensky’s war on christianity. >

Would be kinda weird for our military academy to have symbols of a traitorous breakaway group… >

It’s 2022 right?  I’m not going crazy? >

Really sad, this shit should’ve been done long ago. >

Headline should read: West Point removes confederate participation trophy from campus. >

You mean it hasn't done so up to now so many years after vanquishing actual confederates? What symbolic irony. >

In about 10 years some assholes will start erecting Ashli Babbit monuments.  Fer hishtry. >

Why they are even there? >

To appease southern states years after the war was over because they refused to accept that they fucking lost. >

I see not much has changed in 150 years. >

A lot of these statues and plaques are from the 1930s.

It was not until the early 1930s when West Point began installing Confederate memorials, the commission noted, saying it did so under pressure from the revisionist “Lost Cause” movement that sought to recast the causes of the Civil War and depict those who fought for the Confederacy as deserving of honor for their sacrifices.

Some are from post-WWII. >

Wow a little late for high fives on that one. >

Right? Wow, they sure took care of that issue lickedy split. >

The military is one of the most bureaucratic environments; this is an accomplishment in that it was decided now rather than 8 years from now. Completely circular procedures that see nothing ever gets done in a timely manner. >

WHY do we have anti-American symbols up in the first place? >

Lost cause mythos and racists being in power in the early 20th century >

The guy who popularized the lost cause theory was the fucking president. We are still dealing with the ideological problems of Wilson >

The Lost Cause gained popularity in the 1880s, thirty years before Wilson became president. Wilson was a Lost Cause supporter, for sure, but he didn't start the movement. Jefferson Davis and Jubal Early did. >

It became popular in the 1890s, and Woodrow Wilson was a proponent of it while in academia.  Writing a 5 volume history book "A History Of The American People" that continued to push that narrative. He is the very reason these bases are named the way they are, as a way of satisfying the needs for new military bases and making it palpable for people like himself to accept them in the south. >

I won't argue that Wilson wasn't a proponent of it - he absolutely was. But I still think you're attributing far too much influence to him personally. It was a well-established movement long before his academic career in the 1890s, and it was in full swing as a political movement by the time he was elected president. He was a member of the movement for sure, and his awful policies were a symptom of it, but he didn't start it.
He doesn't even have a single mention on the Lost Cause's wiki page. >

Why would West Point have confederate symbols on its campus? >

Lee was a grad and there was a desire to appease the Southerners during the Civil Rights movement. Regardless, it’s not a good excuse and I’m glad to see it fixed now. >

Good.  Long time overdue. >

I attended West Point, had no idea there was a bronze panel that included a KKK person. >

Now do The Citadel next! >

Good riddance. Just take the L already >

They should at least have some fun with it. Make it an exercise in psy ops: how to demoralize the enemy by making a mockery of their monuments and heroes. Extra credit to the person whose idea draws the most lost-causer protests. >

Confederates waged war on the federal government it’s kind of insane they are just now doing this >

Why were there ever any? Why the fuck would we commemorate the enemy, the defeated enemy. >

Its mind boggling, that they would be there in the first place.these people took up arms to bring down the government,  they killed Americans.  Lee was a TRAITOR. >

How many years has the United States been flying the flag of literal traitors?  Why is this just not now happening?  What kind of country protects traitors and allows the morons following the same twisted ideology to celebrate it?  What a joke. >

Remove them. I don't like losers. >

Why are they even allowed to be there in the first place. >

It's crazy how this is a front page number one story when this should just be a casual normal common sense change. >

Never understood honoring losers
Outside the obvious bigotry >

Anyone that's mad about this is anti-American >

About f-ing time… assholes. >

about time. glad to hear it. >

Finally, common sense prevails! >

I honestly don't see why we ever celebrated a bunch of traitors anyway. Oh, because it's 'Merikkka. >

Why did they have symbols from a country we went to war with in the first place? How much Nazi and North Korean stuff do they have hanging up? >

We’re a ways past the point the point where I’d think you’d do this in private with no fanfare. +1 point for getting rid of it -1 point that it was necessary. >

I was born there. Two generations of my family attended this university and three generations are buried there. I fully support the removal and vilification of any and all monuments, names, or anything else that has to do with putting those traitors in anything other than a negative light. You don’t get to be a traitor and be venerated. Fuck the Confederacy. >

Well.  I'm fine with them leaving those statues as long as they put them in a single room, and inscribe in big block letters:  
"These men are traitors to the United States of America.  They deserve a place in history only as a cautionary tale to warn any member of this academy that so dishonors themselves by breaking their oath will be dishonored for all history. " >

Good, this isn't just traitors that people sat there and laugh at as they set up shop playing pretend country. They caused the lives of hundreds of thousands of US troops all so they can continue to keep slavery. Being brave is respectable, no doubt, but every soldier, right or wrong, has been brave. It doesn't diminish the cause and still makes them wrong. Traitors from day one and traitors today. >

From the outside looking in, the people in the US who idolise the Confederacy are just the oddest people to me. >

The Army military bases are named after Confederate Generals! Long way to go! >

Funny how most of these confederate memorials went up in the 50s and 60s. What else was going on around that time? >

Good, go scorched earth General Sherman on those statues. >

Maybe the gift shops can sell these shirts too. >

The confederacy belongs in museums and history books. It's not something to be honored or memorialized. >

Wait wait wait.
The academy for ARMY OFFICERS had symbols of ENEMY COMBATANTS on display more than 150 years after the fact? >

Yep, had to coddle those Confederate traitor feefees for the longest  fucking time. >

Replace them with statues of an actual hero, like John Brown. >

Personally, I'm up for replacing them with the heroes of the March to the Sea. >

Why would they display the symbols of losers? >

Because influential/powerful people pushing the "lost cause" bullshit narrative forced them to. >

It is interesting to read Lee’s thoughts on why he joined the confederacy. I think the way people view their country has drastically changed. >

Some people. Not everybody saw loyalty to their state as trumping loyalty to their nation. Plenty of Southerners kept their oaths and didn't turn traitor. George Thomas, for example, was a Virginian who fought against the rebels and became one of the Union's best generals. >

As an American and veteran and southerner I say it’s way over due. >

A portrait of Lee in his confederate uniform that had been hanging since the 1950’s…
Kind of lets you know the army thought on the civil rights movement at the time. >

Another loss for the traitors, couldn’t be happier >

I can't believe this is taking place in 2022 and not 1864 >

I am horrified that they were ever put there in the first place. Apparently they waited until most adults alive during the civil war were dead. >

I'm confused and concerned on why it took this long?
It doesn't seem like a US military organization/school especially should have symbols for an enemy of the country. >

I would think you would be more confused as to why they were put up in the first place, since they were put up nearly a century AFTER the Civil War. >

Great. 
Makes no sense anyway to have your future military leaders being forced to look at traitors and fucking losers. >

It pissed me off so much when I’d do room inspections and one of my junior Marines had a confederate flag on their wall. I tried having a reasonable discussion about it but he was thicker than a king sized snickers. >

Ok now do something about the racists inside >

West Point... New York? Why tf did they have Confederate statues? >

Good, why glorify the traitors? >

Ya why tf would they even have them? We don’t have statues of Goebbels and Mussolini at Fort Knox. >

Wow, at essentially the start of 2023. In the spirit of being positive, that's great. But come on...