>

This is a popular opinion. Go woke go broke is real.
Honestly,  I think this is starting to becoming a popular opinion.
It think it is fine when done well but most writters don't have the talent to pull it off or do it too much too often. >

God I hope so, so tired of being lectured at via movies. You wanna have a political message in your movie? Fine, do it. But do it like Starship Troopers anti war message, make a decent movie with bits of the message sprinkled about that takes a bit of paying attention >

Ah i also see you are a gentlehuman with immaculate taste in cinematography. 🍷🧐 >

Indubitably 🍷🧐 >

YOU WANNA LIVE FOREVER!? >

Famously, action films have never had any meaningful or significant social commentary.
Starship Troopers, Aliens, Saving Private Ryan, They Live, The Matrix, Jurassic Park, Battle Royale, Upgrade, Robocop, First Blood, any Mad Max film, Terminator films, fucking Die Hard. 
Pretty much every genre, from children's animation to sci-fi cult horror, has had meaningful social commentary in its genre at some point. In fact, the social commentary is more effective when placed into a film's narrative and weaved directly into it.
I think what you dislike is that films with poor writing tend to be bad at doing this weaving, and since production studios want to just push out things for mass consumption, they're getting writers to work overtime, and the product is being made worse by that motive.
The reality is you've always been moralised to. That's not new. If you think it is, that's actually an indicator of the skill of the writers who have being doing it. 
Is a film like Black Adam going to be as good at conveying a message as All Quiet on the Western Front? It's not unheard of, but probably not. I can tell you that the one that was doing more of the moralising was much more well received. 
In fact, I'd usually argue that a film without any message is usually pretty boring, save for absurdist films which are very much an acquired taste. >

You have to have done really poorly in English class to be unable to understand that the whole point of media is moralisation.
Like... You can't write a story without themes and ideas that are subjective?
The closest you could come is a pure survival film about a single character in nature, but even then that'd likely be interpretable as a commentary on our modern view of nature as relaxing and fun... >

Right? All media or art contains implicit and explicit value judgments. They are in everything we do. People don’t like hearing about stuff they don’t feel is important. >

I am not sure about this take without an example. 
I will say, I do like when you can see philosophies influence things in a movie. Like, sometimes you can completely miss something if you don’t know context around the person saying it. The speaker can change things sometimes. 
My favorite example of this is the song writer for a lot of music in beauty and the beast. I’m the song where they hunt the beast on beauty in the beast the villagers sing “we don’t like what we don’t understand — in fact, it scares us!” This line on its own is pretty easy to read within the context of the movie, but I think it’s really cool how you get another layer when you recognize the writer of this line was a gay man who societally would have faced a lot of scrutiny in the 80s and 90s especially with the aids pandemic. (Which he did unfortunately pass away from. They dedicated the movie to him in the credits. ) >

Everything Disney does in the past 5 years. >

Lauren Hissrich & Season 2 of the Witcher >

Something is rotten in the state of Denmark. >

Show us where the bad movie touched your heart in a way you did not want to be touched. 
Asking artists to not have a point of view is unrealistic and frankly, sounds a little butthurt. >

That’s what writers have always done, though. Hansel and Gretel is a warning about trusting strangers, Pinocchio is about a lying disobedient brat… the list is endless.
All written works have either been about presenting a certain moral, presenting/recording information, or to convince readers on something.
Writers don’t waste their time. If they’re going to tell a story or list something down, there’s going to be a point to it, and that point is called the theme. In fact, writers are taught to put a clear theme in their works 1) so that their work doesn’t get muddled, and 2) so they don’t seem like they’re rambling.
TLDR: this isn’t new- writers have always and always will include morality into their works. >

The  two examples about trusting strangers and a lying disobedient brat feel very different than what I think OP is talking about..
Like the story OP is talking about would be about a POC MtF trans queen who proved to an Arab misogynistic despot that she can belly-dance as good as any female in his harem. >

That isn’t social commentary, it’s bourgeoisie garbage disguised as political empowerment >

Can you give some examples of movies where I can look out for this? >

I'm not sure if it's exactly what OP was talking about, but I really liked some of the philosophies expressed in Everything Everywhere All at Once. It was very pro-kindness and using compassion to solve problems, as well as being ultimately absurdist in it's take on existence and living through life. >

No good deed goes unpunished… >

I'm sorry, I think I'm missing what you mean by this. Which good deed are you referring to? Or are you disagreeing with the idea of using compassion to solve problems? >

I was being cynical. Not serious. >

Sure, but I was being genuine when I said I wasn't sure what you meant by it. Maybe just a lapse on my end. >

No, not really. Your fine. I may want to look at that movie you referenced though. >

It's a neat one. Very creative. >

Where did you see it, Netflix, Amazon Prime? >

Hmm, well I saw it in theaters, but this might help you find it. >

I am a Christian, but I rarely watch Christian movies. They are bad, because they so often out message above story. Modern secular movies are becoming the same; so han fisted with the message that they don't pay attention to the story or characters. The funny thing is, subtlety is usually a way better method of getting a point across. >

Prince of Egypt on top babyyyyyy >

Most of the good Christian movies are Biblical stories. The original material is not so good. >

You mean like the stories from the Hebrew Bible? >

Both Old and New Testament stories >

I think there is a line between good social political commentary and bad social political commentary and it’s typically expressed in the quality of the writing in a movie 
if the movie is really good at making you think and ask complex questions then it’s both good writing and it’s ripe for interesting and engaging discourse over social and political topics while also allowing writers to express themselves and their beliefs and overall create and experience that’s enriching and engaging all round
On the other hand you can have writers who are either overworked or lazy just shoehorning some political or social issues into a peice of media so they can hide from actual criticism of their shite work then you don’t only have bad writing and a cheaply made message but you also run the risk of oversimplifying or even trivializing the issues you’re trying to bring light to by misrepresenting them >

Filmmaking has ALWAYS included social commentary, moral personal dilemmas, a POV regarding current social issues and politics, etc. This is nothing new, and wont ever stop, because thats what makes conflict interesting. Arguably its impossible to write a story without including one own's views on these issues in one way or another. >

Agreed. I lean conservative, and I don't mind social commentary in my films--even progressive social commentary. 
One of my favorite films is Predestination, which has a very progressive message cloaked in a time loop sci-fi film. The progressive message is there, you just have to dig to reach it.
And that's my only complaint about modern popular films: they don't give us anything to "dig" for. Not all are so shallow, of course, but many. >

What progressive message did you find in Predestination? >

People use art as a means of expression. It's kind of the core of art. Sometimes a screenwriter just wants to entertain, sometimes not, but in every instance they're purring a piece of themselves and how they view the world into their art. >

OP, would you please tell me some movies that fit what you're saying? >

Comparing the Charlie’s Angel movies is probably a good example.
The 2000 one is about how women, when utilising their feminine wiles and individual skills, can accomplish anything.
The 2019 one is about how men are either useless or evil and women are better than men.
At least, that’s the message I took from them. >

That's interesting - I definitely feel like the 2000 one has a message of "even super competent action hero women are silly, clumsy, boy-obsessed teenagers when it comes down to it". It never felt very empowering at all. >

How do you write any media without making it meaningful by philosophy? The only reason anything is actually interesting to watch is because of the social commentary behind the work. >

I disagree. Action scenes are often entertaining even if you have 0 context >

I can't think of anything terribly good that doesn't provide context for action scenes. At least, not ones that are longer than a couple minutes at most. >

Ever try hardcore henry? It’s my favourite movie and gives nearly no context >

I've never heard of it, but the trailer suggests a story. Memory loss, some kind of surgery leading to a robotic or cyborg body, a romance plot... The action seems  to be because the bad guys want the tech that made his cyborg body. (Ooo, Tim Roth is in it).
Just a guess, but it seems like it probably depicts hurting innocent people for the sake of being able to do violence better as a bad thing, right? >

Nope you don’t really get any context of what’s going on till the end.  I mean sure it shows you he’s a cyborg but you’ll have to watch it to understand >

Did the trailer pull from the end? Or did the end just re-contextualize things? From the trailer I feel like I have a firm idea of what the character is fighting for, or at least what the audience is supposed to think the character is fighting for. >

The entire movie is pretty much just him killing things, He can’t even talk. Again I highly recommend giving it a watch >

Sure, but I don't think that answered my question... Am I right about what the audience is supposed to think is going on through the action? >

I suppose there is the barest outline of a motivation but it’s at the absolute minimum >

“I’m tired of all art involving the communication of ideas to those who view it.” >

The road to fascism, ladies and gentlemen, cloaked by the "freedom of speech" party. >

Generalization: writing has become super accessible, and people that have not developed their skills thoroughly are getting opportunities they are not ready for >

Big "they made Metal Gear Solid political" vibes, NGL. >

What is the purpose of art if not as an expression of one's beliefs? >

> Because you can't make any insightful meaningful social commentary in a fucking action movie, so stop it.
Really, because A History of Violence did. >

So did Rambo. >

Almost the entirety of sci-fi/action also. >

You realize that all writing for all of history targeted at an adult audience has pushed a political or social view.
Good writing does this because it makes the story more complicated. >

Fairytales would like to remind you they also target kids with it. >

Yes I excludes them because there's alot of examples where childrens stories didn't not because every children's story didn't. >

So…get rid of theme. 😂 >

So many people seem to equate theme to agenda. >

Even the Transformers movies or Top Gun have politics in them. They're just less noticeable if they agree with you. >

Or if you're already super used to the message. I suspect you're thinking about the military propaganda in both of those, and I think we're just so inundated with it that it hardly registers, whether we agree or not. >

Any film that has a protagonist and antagonist has to moralize something or there is literally no reason to route for the protagonist. It doesn't even have to be compelx just something to allow the characters to do anything.
Imagine if the next superman movie was just Clark and Lex fighting for 2 hours. With no explanation of why Superman is good or why Lex is bad. No character development because the characters can't learn anything if there's no moral lessons. That would be incredibly boring. >

They've been doing it for hundred years. >

Are you sick of entertainment reflecting the writer ideology, or are you sick of it not reflecting YOUR ideology? >

Stop watching all that Fox news and get outside and breathe. Everything, even before visual media was social commentary. You think Shakespeare and Grimms were just there for the pure sake of? Every story has social and moral stories taught, even inadvertently. Stop buying into the hatred of being "woke". Stop believing that everyone is trying to just preach to you. Get out of that information vacuum. Jesus christ >

No, they shouldn't. An artist should be allowed to express themselves and their views in their art, same as musicians with their rebellious statements and political messages in their lyrics. Having opinions is what made Punk, Rock and Metal so great during the cultural revolutions of Gen X. I personally love a movie with a punch on social norms and politics.
The best type of comedy is potitical satire and sarcasm. Not everyone finds slapstick, shallow or otherwise simplistic humour funny. >

Hard to believe there used to be a time when movies actually entertained you instead of telling you what to think >

You must watch only one genre of movie because movies have always been "preachy" >

You're free to dislike or not like something, but telling what other people what they shouldn't and should write is stupid. Writers should write whatever they want. You're free to think it's moralizing crap and judge it for what you think it is. >

Yeah, movies...historically known for never having a message. Ever. Not one movie. >

Do you have any examples? 
Cause right now I'm just imagining you getting really upset when people of color are included in movies, calling them woke and attempted social commentary. >

And that's another thing, whenever you voice an opinion like this, it takes all of a minute for someone to come out and pull the race card trying to dismiss criticism under a veneer of someone else being hateful. 
Not everyone on Reddit is an American. We generally don't care what race the actors are here in Denmark.
I just want my action movies to be about action without trite dialog that come from left field completely irrelevant to the plot to make some asinine point relating to the current zeitgeist. >

OK but....do you have an example? 
I used race because as you said, it's a very common complaint from some people that races are cast as other than the original. 
So dialog is the issue, specifically in action movies, that's a start. Now use a specific example so anyone reading the nothing sandwich you wrote has a clue what you're talking about. >

Agreed completely.
Though I'm actually kind of cracking up at OP's choice to post on an opinion sub and actively refuse to give even a single example of what on earth they're on about to illustrate their opinion. I guess it's easier to get defensive and rant then provide a few words to clarify the point they are (failing at) making? Lmao 
.... Admittedly,I 'm very medicated and sleep deprived, which may be contributing to the cracking up, but.. really? Wouldn't you want to back up your opinion? Unless there's no backup, I suppose. >

Well I may be biased towards thinking I'm correct but his immediate defensiveness makes me think I hit it right on the head with changing the races of characters and him calling it woke >

Oh I definitely think that's possible, sorry if it seemed otherwise. I noticed that defensiveness too and the phrasing in particular seemed odd - like if it's happening all the time to you then even if it's not the race/woke thing it's .. something that is still an issue, lol.
The refusal to give a single example is what has me cracking up, but mainly because it's just so dumb and obvious. Your guess on why is better than any I have - other than they can't defend the point, which isn't exactly a reason. Who knows, I'm just going to go back to cackling in the corner.
(Definitely a good guess on your part regardless, as shown by the ridiculous defensiveness, lmao). >

Both sides of this argument are wrong. Art has always reflected the artist's beliefs. But it has normally done so in complex ways, with the ideas translated into story. Now there is a tendency for moralistic preaching, simply inserting political or cultural ideas without the process of transformation. >

Eh, the good stuff has mostly stood the test of time, so you won't see most of the crappy stuff. Still, there are examples that are certainly preachy that are less contemporary. A Christmas Carol is very heavy handed, as is T.S. Eliot's The Waste Land (talk about overt moralistic preaching) >

All of the best movies have messaging and commentary in them. Stop malding cause you think an action movie without action man is “forcing a message” >

so writers should style and cater their writing to what you want, not what they want. got it. >

Art is art and has always been a form of social commentary Karen >

When you insert random names like Karen or Kyle your comment becomes 50% funny >

Whatever you say, Todd. >

Art is inherently tied to the artists inherent feelings/biases. If you don’t Like that writers/musicians/painters/sculptors/etc… put what they believe into their work then don’t consume art. This is a dumb opinion though. >

Every media could be a social commentary on some level >

Ok I agree, but also disagree. I agree because yes, every movie production team goes far and beyond outta their way today to get some stupid political agenda point across. And most of the time, its as stupid as “this character can also be black, white, yellow, green, purple, male or female, LGBTQ - Z etc blah blah.” I get it, its exhausting. 
But i disagree because most of these “writers” (if i dare to give them that much credit) do that shit because they droll over the hype and approval of the pathetic audience they cater to, that doesn’t care to see anything original and desperately accepts this regurgitated bull shit over and over. They don’t do it to “inspire” like the messages they convey may suggest in a different context. They’re whores. It would probably be less annoying and repulsive if their motives were actually to inspire or simply be original >

That's why I love the show Avatar: The Last Airbender. Lessons were just part of the plot, not the plot. >

This has always been done but it used to be done well and the messages used to be more insightful and impactful, nowadays movie quality has gone down so much it's sad.  Technology has advanced so much you would think the movies would only get better but It's like the industry has been overrun by the talentless and uninspired. >

You have seen… a movie… before right? Or seen some art? Or read a book? >

Not only unpopular, but also an extremely dumb and poorly thought out opinion.  
Why don't you also tell a painter to paint portraits instead of paintings of cars or sheep? Why don't you tell musicians what lyrics to put in their songs next? >

The Expanse did a great job with this. For instance there was some flooded areas like the Statue of Liberty and they show it so you're obviously supposed to get the point but they don't launch into a sermon about how horrible humans are and how terrible global warming was they just show you the aftermath and expect you to draw your own conclusions. >

If your talking about every Sci fi and Superhero movie being about what we are doing to our planet then ok? >

This is popular.  I agree with it wholeheartedly.  Nothing is fucking worse than a science fiction or fantasy movie that has a point to make about contemporary American politics - which usually means contemporary American ID politics >

All stories have an underpinning moral philosophy. It's inescapable. Some are simply more overt than others. But by the very nature of what the hero stands for and what they are fighting against produces a worldview that says x is good, but y is bad. There is no such thing as an 'amoral' or 'apolitical' story. Just ones you're not examining closely enough. >

Got any examples of what you’re say? >

Wow why are you against free speech? >

Saying “don’t do this” is different than saying “you can’t do this and if you do you’ll receive legal action” >

/s >

Yes. Piss-poor writing quality, writers with zero foundation in the classics, writers who derive their copywriting ability from mimicking social media, woke culture, Hollywood executive obsession mass market appeal instead instead of quality films, etc.
Instead of subtle, elegant treatments on ideology, we get thrown propaganda in the face. >

This is exactly the way Snowpiercer was fucked up. Great movie. Horrible series. >

Can you give an example of what you mean? >

Hasnt this been going on for centuries but with novels instead? >

The new Candyman, that movie The Invitation, Bodies Bodies Bodies, Black Christmas remake, and Smile are the types of movies being referenced. They see a what the trending ideology is and then ham fist it into a movie where it feels out of place. Then you have properties like he Chucky tv series that sees what the issues of today are and organically work it into the show. >

I feel like if you're going to pick one, picking Candyman is an odd one, considering the original overtly had plots about slavery, civil rights injustices and was set in Cabrini-Green Homes. >

Again, this isn’t about whether or not a movie’s plot has social or political commentary in it, it’s nuanced vs pandering. So I think Candyman fits perfectly. >

Why is the new one pandering and the old one not? They're both very overtly about the racial overtones of the films, they just focus on the issues of their time. >

If you can’t tell the difference between sincerity and opportunism, I can’t help with that >

Well that's a bit of a cop out response. >

Absolutely!  I think Disney is pretty shameless when it comes to this.  I can't watch a story about scary witches that like to eat children. Somehow those scary witches became misunderstood girl bosses who occasionally eat children and I have to feel bad about mischaracterizing them, despite their obvious consumption of children.