>

Defining half of the country as fascists waters down the actual meaning of fascism and trivializes the experiences of those who suffered under it.
There will be no policy debates. Trump has no policies, only grievances. There will, by the time the "debates" roll around, be plenty of dirty laundry aired on both sides, so expect feces flinging. >

I can only imagine it's posturing and literal dick-measuring. Trump didn't have any policies outside of Build That Wall and Drain the Swamp. DeSantis at least might have actual policy proposals as he actually has experience as a politician, but Trump won't meet him where he is. And then they just argue about who is cooler than the other >


literal dick-measuring.

Oh god I forgot that happened in the gop primary in 2015. And that was considered a low point then. >

It was one of those moments where everyone went "Wait. What...?" and just kind of tried to forget about it and move on because it was pretty awkward. But now it's  just another extraordinarily embarrassing thing in a gigantic pile of embarrassing things. >

By the standards of his presidency it's not even that embarrassing. >

DeSantis will likely support Ukraine, whereas Trump will likely push for limited support. DeSantis has actually support green energy in Florida - he vetoed a bill written by big energy in Florida that would have curbed benefits of solar energy; Trump will continue his coal banter to win the rural poor whites. DeSantis has been pretty moderate on abortion bans, Trump would likely support national bans. A few points that quickly come to mind. >

I think DeSantis is staking out a position to Trump's right on vaccines. >

agreed. He's also more vocal on his "anti-woke" agenda. CRT and anti-trans rights. He scares me because he's less belligerent in his speeches but more calculating in his policies. He galvanized the Latino vote in FL this cycle and may expand it nationally. Surprisingly he gave teachers a significant raise in FL, but I imagine he doesn't promote that as policy nationally. >

But now he’s taking on teachers unions and actively politicizing school board elections by going after those who were okay with masks in schools. DeSantis is vindictive af when it comes to opposition. Danger to the country 100%. >

There is no ban on mask-wearing in Florida. People can wear masks if they choose. Something not being mandated doesn’t make it illegal. >

He also took many efforts to prohibit businesses and schools from being able to take appropriate Covid-19 mitigation measures (actual litigation against many like the schools and cruise industry). Clearly a wanna-be strong man. >

Uh huh, such as? I imagine your spin doesn’t quite line up with the facts. >

I think the person is referring to DeSantis supporting legislation that penalizes schools for mask mandates >

Yes, and? Mask wearing isn’t banned. >

I’m not sure what comment you are referring to about mask bans.  The chain I am reading is about efforts to penalize businesses and schools for mask mandates. And that would be correct- DeSantis did go after schools and educators that enforced mask mandates. >

It would just be some unintelligible yelling for a couple of hours.
Source: the 2016 GOP primary debates. >

Don't underestimate Desantis. The man is no dummy. >

It's amazing how so many people think "disagree with my political beliefs" = "profoundly stupid in every way".
The reason the 2015 primaries devolved into a circus is because the other candidates were completely unprepared for Trump's style. Go watch them on youtube. Jeb Bush stammered and stuttered at times on stage because he couldn't figure out how to respond. It's a different world now and people are prepared. DeSantis is many things, but a political doof he is not. The man won governorship of a swing state in a blue wave year (2018), and then won reelection by the highest margin of any Florida governor race in the last twenty years. He is good at politics and electioneering.
If he does run - which I still am skeptical about - he will run with a solid electoral plan that involves more than just yelling incoherently at Trump during debates. >

I’m going to disagree on DeSantis’ debating abilities. Just a few months ago during the Florida elections he was left speechless and stammering on a question of if he won would he see through his term instead of running for president. Though I would say Trump has lost his fastball and can’t debate at the level he did in 2016 so who really knows >

I find this talking point really strange regarding him being “speechless” during the debate. He is waiting for his time to start - he even says to the moderator “is it my time yet?” And the proceeds to deliver the most memorable line of the debate. I don’t think he’s the counter puncher that Trump is, but the dude can debate >

As a matter of campaign strategy I don't think either Trump or DeSantis engage in specific policy discussions. Rather they tend to speak in proclamations that leave the listener free to fill in the blanks. 
I don't think we will ever see Trump and DeSantis on a debate stage. Trump will not tolerate a real challenge for the Republican nomination. If the Republican party doesn't clear the field for Trump to be the nominee I think Trump will aggressively attack party leadership. It would jeopardize elections all over the map if Trump tells his loyalists not to vote Republican. >

I think that if the Republicans nominate a not-trump canidate, the nominee will promise Trump a pardon for an endorsement. If Trump hasn't gone from "Batshit crazy politically" to "Batshit crazy in literally every walk of life" by then, he'll realize that a pardon is worth a lot more than his (already crumbling) pride.
Or maybe I'm overestimating the intelligence of both a theoretical GOP nominee and Trump here. >

Trump has been in and out of court his whole life. At no point has Trump ever been accountable for anything. I don't think at 76yrs Trump is suddenly going to become fearful of accountability. 
Besides, if Trump becomes President again he can pardon himself and everyone else he sees fit. So why would Trump bother cutting a deal? >

Trump won't become president if he isn't the nominee. If he runs independent, Biden gets reelected. I think he would take what he can get from the Republican nominee, whether that be a Pardon, a cabinet position, a judicial appointment, whatever. The details don't really matter. The point is that Trump, assuming he's smart enough to see what's in his best interest (and we've seen that being self-interested is Trump's only talent), he'll threaten a run to get concessions and then endorse the GOO nominee in order to get those concessions. >

No, I think Trump truly believes he can win again in 24. >

Yep. A lot of people here don’t understand personality disorders. They are attributing logic and strategy to a person who has always operated on pure narcissism and greed. Having had a taste of power, there is no reason to expect Trump to do anything except mount a full-on campaign to regain it, even if he’s 40 points behind. His MAGA cultists will stick by him, and that’s enough to fuel his ambition. >

My thoughts exactly. Trump doesn’t think rationally and doesn’t use the same calculus we do. >

DeSantis is already pandering to the anti-vaxx crowd, so expect him to attack Trump over funding vaccine research >

Ew. That's going to be awkward given his general pro-vaccine stance during COVID (he said they are safe and recommended everyone get them in multiple video clips). >

When has point previous statements to republicans ever played out in their base? >

You're making it sound like Trump would attempt to debate policy and not spend his time belittling or speaking over DeSantis. >

COVID will be Desantis' biggest attack point. In particular, Desantis is going to destroy him on those early lockdowns. He will blame the entire inflation crisis on Trump's handling of COVID. >

I thought the GOP attacked Biden over inflation, so wouldn't attacking Trump on it end up hurting the party's chances in the general election? >

Technically, they both presided over it, so it's not entirely hypocritical to attack both. >

None. Trump will ignore the questions and issues entirely, blather on about “stolen election,” and insult Desantis repeatedly. His base will eat it up and the press will declare Trump the “winner” of the “debate.” >

Life long Republican here and this is so true. I hate it so much. Trump needs to just fade into the background but he refuses. >

That is the thing, trump won't fade, because trump has never faded in the first place.
When the republican party to took in trump to be their presidential nominee they in essence opened their own form of pandoras box.  From here on out into the future, trump is republican, and republican is trump. >

That’s the thing though, only trump and his die hards think this way. Every Republican I know thinks like me. He is just louder. He does not have the unwavering support you think he does. One man does not get to define us all. >

It will be an interesting future to observe for the republican party when it comes to trump.  It is true that one man does not get to define you all, however, he still does have a grip in the party, no matter how much it is waning.  The big situation is we will have to see what would happen if he does decide to split from the republican party and form his own, to create in his own image.  We have information in which we've learned that he was close to doing that.
What damage would that do to the republican party and the conservative grouping in the United States.  One thing is for certain, when it comes to trump, no future is for certain. >

Do we even know DeSantis will run? I don’t see how debating Trump will do him any favors. >

This. There's no scenario in which DeSantis decides it's a good idea to run against Trump. Trump has, and always will have, a base of extremely loyal followers who will make it very hard for DeSantis to win the primary. And even if he does, Trump will just either run as an independent or call the primaries "rigged" and tell his followers not to vote in the general election. In an era where elections are decided by 2-3%, that's a death sentence. 
DeSantis may have many deficiencies, but a man who won a governorship in a blue wave year (2018) and then won reelection with the highest margin of any Florida governor race in the last twenty years (2022) is not a political goof. He will see the writing on the wall and decide to wait until Trump is dead. Which will honestly only be a few years from now. >


There's no scenario in which DeSantis decides it's a good idea to run against Trump

That is way too confident for me. There have been several polls recently showing Trump's weakness vs Desantis in a primary. There are so many people in the party telling him to run. It has to be very tempting. >

I think the only real policy grounds you would see DeSantis go after Trump are backward looking, and he would say that Trump capitulated to Fauci and the CDC too much on Covid.  Everything else would be culture war quibbling, and even the covid stuff is a bit as well. >

Competing chants of "lock him up," each trying to prove they hate Fauci more.
What a timeline. >

Policy is the last thing that would be discussed. I'd expect a flurry of insults and name calling. >

None.  They largely believe the same things.  It would just be personal attacks all the way down. >

How would each raise the level of inhumanity to people at the border? Incarceration techniques? How to best bash gay people? >

HAHAHAHAHA.
I don’t think they would debate much policy. I think DeSantis would hit Trump on not fighting wokesness and for not accepting election results, and Trump will claim DeSantis is a third rate politician who wouldn't have gotten anywhere without Trump, as well as some particularly Trumpian insults like insulting DeSantis' manhood or something. >

Has DeSantis ever supported aid for a marginalized population? DeSanta would sell...
Trump would probably go for something like "coat trails DeSantis". "Carpetbagging DeSantis"? >

They will compete at creating a bigger spectacle of hate towards Democrats, liberals, minorities, and foreigners. They will be judged on vitriol, authenticity, and most importantly entertainment value. >

Don't forget the bikini competition >

ah yes trump's teen beauty contests .that.is so weird. >

If somehow they both run and debate, I don't think policy even enters into it.
Trump will say that DeSantis owes his whole political career and election as Governor to Trump, point out all the times DeSantis was fawning over how great Trump is -- and even by political standards or even Trump specific standards, he was to a severely embarrassing degree, example one of too many to count -- and why is DeSantis so disloyal to him now?
I don't think DeSantis has the charisma to spin that successfully with voters, but even if he does -- it's still not a debate on policy. >

I know this thread is full of dunking on these two, but honestly, it is deserved. Trump has proven he doesn’t actually have any policy knowledge or ability to lead on policy issues. He relies on the last person in the room to tell him what to think. His entire political persona is based around stoking grievances. He isn’t going to all of a sudden start learning how to debate policy, when he failed to do it in the 2016 primaries, 2016 general, or 2020 general election. Any question about what policies Trump would debate is based in a complete rejection of the reality that is Trump’s political persona. 
As for DeSantis, if we set aside his attempt to cash in on Trump’s grievance politics (fake CRT and grooming narratives, COVID disinformation) and just look at his governance outside of that, you find him to be fairly unsubstantial. His accomplishments have been minimal, and he has done relatively little to address actual problems in Florida. Some of that can be chalked up to basic conservatism, where the idea is for the government to do as little as possible, but it still shows that he doesn’t have a lot of policy knowledge to fall back on. 
So even if Desantis attempted to get into policy, Trump’s distractions and Desantis’ lack of substance would shut that discussion down quickly. It would devolve into insults, attacks on immigrants and liberals, and stoking racial and social biases of the voting base they are courting. 
It just isn’t possible for there to be an actual policy debate between these two. It isn’t possible to have a policy debate with Trump anywhere on stage at all, but combine that with Desantis’ lack of substance, and you have the makings of a shit show. I suspect they will forgo debates and simply use media appearances to get their message out. The battle lines are drawn, anyway. There are those who are done with Trump and look to Desantis as the future, and there are those who idolize Trump and will support him to the end. Not much of a middle ground of voters to debate for. >

Florida has had hundreds of thousands of new people moving there from other states, new businesses, thousands of business licenses issued, and it’s drop in education scores was far smaller than many other states during covid. There are countless businesses moving offices from Chicago and nyc to Miami. If any state came out on top in America it was Florida. He has plenty to run on. >

I don't think their electorate cares about policy. After all, they voted for a party that didn't have a platform in 2020. It's going to be a storm of personal attacks and name calling. De Santis, if he's smart, will keep composed and let Trump bury himself, making the choice easy for people who want to pretend caring about civility. >

I'm still waiting for actual policies. "Anti-woke", "anti-vaccine", "anti-abortion" are not policies, let alone policies that address the originals facing the populace. >

Those are policies.
Policies designed to make people they hate suffer are bad policies, but they are still policies. >

Who's got bigger hands, who hates gays more, who drinks more liberal tears, who could build a bigger wall, all important GOP things... >

They will just insult and nickname each other. Have you ever seen a debate involving Trump that didn't sound like a childish playground squabble? >

It will devolve into a shouting match where they will each try to claim that they hate immigrants and trans people more than the other. >

If they were honest and not members of the GOP they could debate how each of them would destroy America and its Constitution. >

"Debate"?? Lmao, you know who you're talking about, right? It'd be a shitshow, it's why Trump doesn't do debates. >

Why does everyone act like Trump is still able to run? The Jan 6 commitie is planning on preventing him from running ever again  he's too dangerous
But hypotheticaly speaking trumps argument would be make him president because he said so he's never really had a legit argument as to why he should run he's still crying over 2020 loss and he'll make his speech all about that >

I don’t think they will ever debate. They
don’t have to. MAGA fools will support Trump through thick and thin. All die-hard republicans will vote for DeSantis. Independent voters and those that lean conservative will listen for news bites and social media posts to make their decisions. No debates will happen. >

If trump can even run again (looking less and less likely) he is incapable of debating any policy. It will be a shouting match >

It will be straight one-upmanship. Whomever goes first will say "I will deport Mexicans" to which the other will say "that is too soft, I will make sure we deport their families too" and the audiance will cheer. That will be the extent of it on policy, the rest is going to be mud slinging about how one isn't republican enough. >

We’re living in the Upside Down. 
I don’t know which one is actually worse. Trump is a dumb bigot. DeSantis (in comparison) is a smart bigot.
But EVERYONE, we should all be weary of DeSantis taking his discriminatory education policies federal. A federal judge has challenged the higher Ed part of DeSantis’ “Stop Woke” Act, but he’s thus far successfully legislated anti-honesty policies. Teachers cannot teach full history including racism, they cannot allude to or allow students to discuss the LGBTQ+ community, and will have their certifications revoked if it happens. Students cannot seek safe counsel (only 37% of LGBTQ+ youth report having affirming parents). And a single parent using “parents’ rights” can challenge and ban books (that they have not themselves read) throughout the district.
Truly awful. Backwards. Upside down. >

I don't know if there would be disagreements per se, but De Santos would probably try to argue that he was "more effective" , especially during COVID .
From a conservative standpoint, one of our few criticisms of Trump was that he "caved" to Fauci and the media at the height of pandemic, whereas DeSantis put his name and reputation on the line and took a gamble (which paid off) in opening schools and easing restrictions before it was recommended by the know-it-alls.
Also, being from FL, DeSantis already has a positive track record when dealing with natural disasters >

Ukraine plus DeSantis is obviously gearing up to attack the COVID vaccines—approved under trump—to the extent that constitutes a policy debate >

They’ll just argue about whatever polls and advisors tell them will help them win. That’s all that matters to them anymore. >

The sad reality is that the disagreements would boil down to 'why didn't you pledge your undying support for God Emperor Trump?'. That's it. >

Trump would argue that the constitution is unconstitutional and win the primary. >

So if they'd get beyond the personal insults and have genuine debate this is an interesting question.
They broadly agree on immigration, gun control.I think it would mostly be about previous record of accomplishments and failures.
Fiscal policy, security/foreign policy and health are issues that might come up? >

Impressive that you think there would even be a semblance of a reasonable debate with both of them on the same stage … >

Or, with Trump involved, that the GOP will put out a 2024 party platform, with, y’know… policy positions or an affirmative declaration of what they’re for, or believe in, other than being against the Ds and being for beating the Ds >

Policy? In a Republican debate? Featuring Donald Trump? Are you joking? There will be no mentions of policy. The only qualities of either that will be measured during debates are the sanity and mental competency of Donald Trump, and their commitment to "owning the libs," or attacking "wokeness." >

Actual policy disagreements? Basically nothing. Both of them just wallow aimlessly in the same cesspool of right wing politics, dishonestly moving from position to position and throwing out dog whistles. >

Why are we assuming there will even be a debate? Both of these men are the types to whine about "biased" debates and quit altogether. >

They're fascists, so their primary disagreement would be about who should get to run things. 
DeSantis has made a habit of mimicking Trump, whose policy has always been mask-off standard Republican platform with a side of Russia flattery, so besides maybe a tougher relationship with Russia, I don't see a difference in DeSantis's actioons/policies.