>

Everything is un-islamic. It's a fiction. Women's education has exactly nothing to do with any fairy tale.
Every time I read his name it feels like it’s  always in a sentence
I wouldn’t expect >

I swear headlines about him seem like heel and face turns so often he might be the Tasmanian Devil >

Weeeelllllllllllll well it's ~~the Big Show~~ Erdogan!!!!!!! >

It is inhumane and un-Islamic,” Erdogan said while addressing an international conference on ombudsmanship in Ankara.
“There is no such thing in our religion. No one should define any ban like that based on Islam. Islam does not accept such a thing. On the contrary, we are members of a religion that says 'seek knowledge from the cradle to the grave'.
The Taliban government last month first decided to suspend university education for women, and later issued an outright ban on education for women. However, some girls' schools have remained open.
Since the Taliban returned to power in Afghanistan in the summer of 2021, residents, elders and religious leaders in the country and abroad have challenged its claims that restricting education and work for women is permissible in Islam.
However, the Islamic Emirate says it does have support among Muslim scholars from other countries.
On Wednesday, Turkey initiated an extraordinary meeting of the Organisation of Islamic Cooperation (OIC), which called on the Afghan interim government to review its ban on women's education and working in educational and non-government organisations.
The OIC also decided to send a religious delegation led by the International Islamic Fiqh Academy (IIFA) to emphasise that women's and girls' access to all levels of education, including university level, is a fundamental right in keeping with the teachings of the “noble Islamic shariah. 
Erdogan said the Turkish foreign ministry as well as himself "will personally follow up on" the state of women's education in Afghanistan and would not leave it unchecked. 
Turkey is operating 80 schools in Afghanistan through its state-funded Maarif Foundation. 
MEE understands that the Taliban briefly closed 14 Turkish primary girls-only schools last month. Turkish authorities later managed to re-open girls-only primary schools and are currently trying to re-open the girls' high schools later this year by assigning female-only staff and operating the schools in different buildings than the male ones. 
One person familiar with the issue said Taliban officials had not imposed a blanket ban on primary and high-school female education.
They added that the way the authorities impose the ban depends on different provincial laws and the judgement of senior education officials.
Turkey remains the only Nato country to have a functioning embassy in Kabul after the Taliban takeover in August 2021. 
In September 2021, just weeks after the Taliban seized control of Kabul, the group refused to allow girls to resume high school education. Touted as a temporary decision, the return to school has been repeatedly delayed.  
In August, Middle East Eye reported that scores of female Afghan students were prevented by the Taliban from boarding a flight to Qatar, where they had sought to continue their studies. 
Several Taliban leaders have sent their own daughters to schools and universities abroad, particularly in Qatar, leading to frequent accusations of double standards. >

While it doesn't excuse anything, and I'm skeptical whether it will actually make a difference or not;
Small steps. I'm ever so slightly impressed. I expect that feeling to last for about 3 minutes. >

You guys obviously live in developed countries :D >

Sometimes it’s nice to hear one of the psychos say something closer to rational. >

This guy's an embodiment of RNG. >

Real life mad lib >

Flip a coin, every time. >

Erdogan is speed running his telenovela good/evil personality changes.
One day,dressed in black with a mustache twirl. Next, dressing in white, rescuing puppies from crocodiles. >

Third day, killing crocodiles. >

That's Bob Katter's job >

Man Turkey is the most chaotic neutral country ever. 
You never know what side they will take on some issue. 
It's like rolling a d20 >

Thats Erdogan for you. He doesn’t believe in anything at all. He’s an opportunist, and a populist, and his stance on anything is subject to change. That being said, saying you should allow women education isn’t very controversial. >

I feel like he wants to rebuild the center of Islamic power around Turkey and be his own fashion of Ottoman Sultanate. >

truth to be to told, Islam really needs more moderate people. >

Erdogan is not a moderate.
He’s reversed almost every single secular law in Turkey in favour of Islamic ones. >

But at least he wants women to get an education. Probably separated from men, but still >

Only as long as it suits his agenda. >

Not sure why people are surprised. Women are actually free to go to the university in Turkey. Afghanistan Taliban is just hella backwards by every standard. >

Considering the ever more authoritarian government in Turkyie it's just nice to see that not everything is bad. >

This is just the European propaganda machine because they don't like Turkish foreign policy. They call them authoritarian so they can sanction the shit out of them. In Turkey people drink, take drugs, fuck around party like in any other country. Women can do whatever the fuck they want. There's just a big disconnect just like in the US with rural areas and large city populous. Most Conservatives in the US live in rural areas just like in Turkey and support batshit crazy things like pro-life and shit. It's just that nobody really cares about the progressive half of Turkey thanks to media coverage. It'll be funny if the Democrats lose the next election. I expect the same sanctions and media coverage for the US, but that wont happen bc money. >

Erdogan is called authoritarian, which he is, not the Turkish people. Nothing propaganda about that >

Him being authoritarian have nothing to do with women's rights or other stuff like that but Turkey bad narrative on every topic makes uneducated people in west think this is a hot take.    
Turkey is one of the first countries to give women right to vote. There is nothing surprising about what Erdogan said but a lot of people here is surprised. >

So what, do you expect every single person to keep up o rverything that ever happened anywhere? I know turkey had been pretty good in terms of equality, but things that already are don't make the news. When they threaten to attack their NATO allies it does. >


So what, do you expect every single person to keep up o rverything that ever happened anywhere? I

What kind of excuse is this? If you don't have the knowledge about certain topics, you should stfu and stop using buzz words or spread misinformation. >

Ah yes because you only speak about things you are an expert in? As long as people don't claim to be an expert they aren't why do you even care if they speak about things. It's not like what was said was wrong, Erdogan is authoritarian, no misinformation in there >

You're literally justifying the thought process of covid deniers and MAGA supporters lmao >

No, having opinion on things is not bad. It becomes a problem once you don't listen to reason anymore >

Taliban ban >

There ain't no ban like a Taliban ban >

Ain’t no ban like a taliban >

Your account has been talibanned >

Damn, you know you fucked up when erodgan is calling you out lmao. >

Inhuman is a better term >

Yes, 100%, but.. Taliban don't consider "inhuman" a necessarily bad thing. On the other hand, their only claim to legitimacy as a group is being Islamic - hence their ban on opium and boy-rape. So accurately calling this as un-Islamic bears a lot more relevance in this context. >

It's worth noting that while the Taliban call themselves Islamic, their sect, called Wahabi, is not recognized by any other sect of Islam. The ideology of Wahabis violates several major rules of Islam. The largest offense has been their attempts to force Islam on others, which is explicitly forbidden in Islam.
Wahabis believe Muslims have not taken the religion seriously enough, and the two groups seek to destroy each other. Actual Muslims staunchly and violently resist these Wahabi groups. The distinction is critical, and real Muslims hate the Taliban, Al Qaeda, and ISIS even more than NATO does. >

Let them fight! >

You say that as if average Muslims are also the bad guys here, even though the whole point is that they reject extremism in Islam and are inherently enemies with the terrorist groups who launch violent attacks against everyone >

They “reject extremism” while stoning women for adultery and hanging atheists and everyone who leaves Islam. That’s not rejecting extremism. >

Who does that? The average Muslim? You ever been to an average Muslim country? Or even met an average Muslim? Because I’m Muslim. I know plenty of Muslims. Not one of them has ever done or even supports what you just described. I don’t know a single Muslim man who forces women to wear hijabs. I know just as many Muslim women who choose to wear hijabs as I know who don’t, and no one says a word to them about it because no one cares - because the Quran tells us we can’t compel others to follow Islam, and that people’s deeds are generally between them and God. It tells us it’s not our business what other people do or believe as long as they’re not hurting anyone. We’re all supposed to mind our own business as far as religion goes and just get along with each other. Ans I don’t know a single Muslim who has ever expressed support for hanging atheists. It’s almost as if you’re basing your entire view of Muslims on what you’ve seen on the news. Your view of Islam is detached from reality >

Aw, no, I’m not saying both sides are extreme. I’m thinking more it would be fun if the extremists were gone. >

Erdogan is really a hit or miss >

He is like 99% miss >

Better than his buds. Putin and Xing are 100% miss >

A lot of religious woman vote for him >

I mean.., if you go off of early Islamic history, then yeah, it is un Islamic >

It's almost like there are multiple sets of rules Islam is interpreted through. Who would have thought. >

Broken clock. >

I think this is a great example of how many of the things people think are problematic about islam are actually cultural practices and attitudes that coexist with Islam but do not emanate from it. Islam is incredibly pro education >

Islam is like extreme Evangelicals in the US. They don’t believe in evolution and are homophobic as can be. >

This is a really reductionist view. For starters there is nothing that contradicts the possibility of evolution in Islam and it is not considered anti-Islamic to believe in, study, or teach evolution as a science. This mirrors the more academically inclined sects of Christianity like Catholicism (esp. Jesuit teachings of Catholicism which support a large number of research universities). 
Judeo-Christian religions as well as the Islamic faiths consider being gay a sin along with many other things. Homophobia is not however limited to religion; most cultures globally and lower socioeconomic groups are broadly culturally conservative which includes being against homosexuality. I don’t know enough about the psychology behind this pattern to explain further but up until the last decade there were vanishingly few places in the globe where being gay did not come with persecution. In this regard, I think the United States can take some pride (no pun intended) in leading the mainstream shift in attitudes to homosexuality (as well as consciousness about social Justice in general). 
Are there groups of Muslims that have enormous overlap with US evangelicals? Of course.
But it’s complicated and a human issue more than a religious one IMO. >

Even the most westernized or progressive Islamic country turkey dropped the theory of evolution from the curriculum because it is considered unislamic.
You can imagine what is going in countries like Afghanistan, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia ect.
Nothing you said about homophobia invalidates my initial statement. Islam is homophobic to the max. >

Went to school in the gulf - evolution was covered in our syllabus. Why these lies? >

TL;DR: Uninformed redditors who only see things black and white and get all of their opinions from visible headlines.
Yes, you can have a conservative ideology, be not a good person yet still support some humanist ideas. Duh >

This implies that Erdogan is talking about his beliefs and not what he expects to help him in the upcoming presidential election. >

Not a RTE supporter but if I'm not mistaken he sent his daughter to US for university education. >

This is like watching MTG turn against Boebert. >

That’s right! The only reason to ban academics is because they have opposing views!
/s >

Even if you want to have strict gender roles, women who are educated make better mothers and make more informed healthcare choices for their families and children. These men were all infants at one point and they’re shooting themselves in the foot by having poorly educated mothers. Add to the fact that now women will have difficulty accessing healthcare because they can’t be around male doctors … yikes. Big yikes. >

This individual is difficult to read; wonder how hard his mother worked to sort him out only to have this pile of nonsense walk about, leading a country >

He’s really not. He’s trying to establish himself as a voice of Islam and as a power broker for the Middle East. A relatively more women-friendly take on it - even if it would still be seen as regressive in the West - gives him more clout among certain parts of the Turkish and the wider Middle Eastern populations.
Think of him like a cancer that’s metastasizing. He’s attaching himself to as many (social) organs as he can to make his inevitable rejection of being voted out of office more palatable. >

And as shitty as he can be, I'd rather have Türkiye as the primary cultural influence on the Middle East than the Saudis or Iran (unless they can topple their theocracy, at least). >

They are Muslim in name only.  Similar to the Christian Nationalists.  They are only Christian in name.  Both groups use only the parts of the respective religions to control people and neither group follows the primary precept of both religions, which is love. >

Cant have a discussion about Islam without the inevitable "just like Christians tho!" >

Because the people most vocal in criticizing Islam are often radicals Christians. >

Strawman. >

Not everything critical of you is a strawman. I’ve had radical Christians think I’m one of them for criticizing Islam. >

Why doesn’t the Taliban, just come out verbally and say it, “We hate women”, yet they wouldn’t be here, if the woman didn’t push you out of her birth canal >

Even though little Tayyip did the right thing here, he is still a pussy >

Wow - first nice thing I’ve heard from this tyrant since ever. >

The more I see his name the more I’m starting to think he’s violently schizophrenic >

He is not wrong, but most of what we see as Islam in modern world is very un-Islamic. >

what you see is what the media wants you to see. >

I don't know too much about Islam, but what I do know is that a lot of people confuse religion with local customs and culture, which explains many comments here. >

Exactly, it’s sad when people see something bad happen and blame the religion when they themselves know nothing about it other than what they see on the news >

Every Muslim that has the slightest idea of their religion already knows this but glad he said it to shock a bit the idiots who think Islam is anti-women and anti-education. >

Turkey and Taliban getting into it....
Looks like proxy conflict for Arabs and Turks might start in Afghanistan soon. >

Afghans aren't Arabs... >

Not saying they are, saying the people who are financing the groups for proxy wars. >

Heartbreaking: worst person you know just made a great point >

You must be under a very heavy black propaganda if Erdoğan is the worst person you know. >

This is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 82%. (I'm a bot)


Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan has denounced the Taliban's order to ban university and primary education for Afghanistan's women as "UnIslamic", promising to follow the issue until it is resolved in a televised speech on Wednesday.
The Taliban government last month first decided to suspend university education for women, and later issued an outright ban on education for women.
Since the Taliban returned to power in Afghanistan in the summer of 2021, residents, elders and religious leaders in the country and abroad have challenged its claims that restricting education and work for women is permissible in Islam.


Extended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: education^#1 Taliban^#2 school^#3 ban^#4 women^#5 >

Well, duh. >

On the Richter scale of ulterior motives, this registers at a 9 >

Is it though? Genuinely asking >

Yes, the first university in the world was literally founded by a Muslim woman. Education in Islam is seen as a blessing and it is encouraged to go to school. >

Source? >

Typically "universities", at least in the modern use of the word, are places of learning with academic freedom (= they themselves decide what and how to teach), so including madrasas is a bit of a stretch. By this definition the al-Qarawiyyin is only 60 years old.
If you do include madrasas, then you would also need to include various buddhist monasteries of ancient India, the academy in Athens, the Library at Alexandria and more, all those are at least 1000 years older. >

Do they continue operating? I don't know bro. UNESCO and Guinness said that. Not I. >

The claim was "first university", not "the longest operating place of learning". >

Bu they also say they accept it as the first university... Sounds to me you have something against Muslims. Don't worry. I've something against Christians as well. >

GP's point was that labeling al-Qarawiyyin as the first university is incoherent. If you unconventionally relax the definition of university to include things traditionally not considered universities (which conventionally was a specific type of Medieval European guilds), then many other institutions would compete for the title, too, and many of them are significantly older than al-Qarawiyyin. Strawmanning about "Muslims" and "Christians" is hardly necessary here. So are arguments from authority. >

UNESCO - the instution whose sole purpose is to save human heritage label that place as the first university. I don't know what else to say here really. >

Don't know much about Islam, but even disregarding morality and international relations it's stupid as fuck. Afghanistan isn't really doing so well it can afford half of its smartest people to remain uneducated. >

That’s the Taliban motto. “Everything we do is un-Islamic!” >

Erdogan is simultaneously the worst good guy and the best bad guy. >

Well yeah of course. The Taliban and ISIS are not Islamic just like fundamentalist evangelicals in the US aren't Christian. They simply use religion as a tool - leverage to wield their power and control others.
Isn't this obvious to everyone? >

unlike mohammed? >

Yeah well, the Taliban would probably say that educating women is un-islamic. When the foundation of your world view is vague bullshit fantasies then you can justify everything with anything. >

Believe it is Incelmic >

The thing that made Erdoğan so popular in Turkey was his struggle for women's education and employment in the first half of his leadership.
Probably most of users have no idea but it was forbidden to study or work in state institutions in Turkey until 2010-2011. Half of the women were literally banned from entering universities just because they were hijabi.
He fought against the secular/kemalist/nationalist establishment to give hijabi women their rights. His party barely survived a closure threat by this establishment in the judiciary, he resisted against threats from the secular military.
To this day, he talks about this issue a lot and uses for consolidating his support from women and conservative people in general. >

Dunno why, I feel like deep down he would love to dictate women the way the Taliban do.  I just don't trust his bullshit, feel like it's appeasement for votes... >

I have this recurring fantasy that all
The genders in that country get flipped, and the men now have to live the way they’ve been treating women. It would be glorious. >

Dunno why you got downvoted for that, I would like to see this in any country that suppresses women.  Maybe it's because I don't think Turks are too bad towards their women are they? >

Yeah, for the most part Turkey isn’t too bad. I was thinking gender flipping would be fun somewhere like Afghanistan. Whoops, sorry, you have a vagina now, now go and put on a burka and get in the kitchen while I go outside and have some fun. >

"Weathervane points in the direction the wind is blowing." >

Erdogan is... Erdogan. A paranoid sultan-wannabe who sees things through his own coloured glasses. That he's in support of education for women, is only a small redeeming quality that is minuscule compared to his other "qualities" and it exists only because it suits him currently. >

That's religion in a nutshell to you. Anyone can say anything. It's all made up. >

Abortions are allowed at any time because of Mothers health in Islam. And before a certain time as there no soul in the child. Pretty interesting >

Abortion is legal until the 10th week of pregnancy in Turkey.  You don't have to give reasons. Btw the first word of the Qur'an to be revealed is "Iqra", "Iqra" is meaning 'read'. You can't teach women to read without educating them. >

Erdogan is un-islamic. >

On the contrary, it’s quite Islamic.