>

Science is my thing there is a lot of variables going on. Weak magnetics on our pole possibly reversing, sun goes through stages, our orbit is not perfect. Cell phone microwaves ....I could go on an on
Iirc the Eisenhower Administration did a military study regarding the effects of Climate change so everyone knew. >

Climate change is a lot of things, but it's not news.  I remember reading about it in 1988 - this cover story in Newsweek magazine, in fact.   I haven't looked at the article since then but from what I remember it was pretty much on point.
Once something makes the front page of Newsweek magazine, it's not a secret any more.  I was 15 when I read that article and thought "wow, I hope somebody does something about this."  The fact that no one did is not Exxon's fault.  Their business was digging the stuff out of the ground so it could be cracked and burnt; no one was paying them to prevent a climate crisis, and no one was regulating them either.  Though they could have been regulated, had there been the will to do so.
EDIT:  Wow, 1912.  I guess we had every opportunity as a species to nip this in the bud, didn't we? >

If Exxon manipulated the world into inaction then they have a bigger part of the blame >

When the world allowed itself to be easily manipulated, you are giving the world too much credit. We’ve known about the harmful effects of carbon for way too long to pretend we’ve been misled and are innocent in all this. >

What does the boot taste like? >

Silly, unintelligent response. Carry on with your day. >

I see this headline every six months.  This is how encroached industries act when their primary product is found to literally be poisonous.
Big tobacco denied the link to cancer for decades, despite them knowing the damage.  Before that, the lead industry kept leaded gasoline in our cars.  There were Congressional hearings in the 1920's on the matter, but we did nothing.  
Big asbestos did the same thing under the same circumstances starting in the early 20th century.  And if we wanna go back to the 19th century, big mercury, which absolutely was a thing, acted in the same way when we tried to keep mercury out of our food as an admittedly effective preservative. 
They follow the same playbook every time.  You'd think we'd be able to counter them by now.
edit
This American Experience documentary on the literal poisons that used to be in our foods, and the fight against the industries putting them there, comes highly recommended.  You may need a VPN to view if you're out of the US. >

It's hard to solve a problem when rich and powerful people have a deeply vested interest in not solving it. >

...or obstructing the solution. >

...by elevating capitalism to a de-facto religion inside which alternatives are literally unthinkable.
To those who are inevitably going to say that socialism never worked... It worked incredibly well before and during the anarcho-syndicalist Spanish Revolution of 1936, which created an actual utopian society.
And no, the totalitarian regimes that followed weren't socialist in nature. At the very core socialism means workers owning and controlling the means of production. Also it must be social, hence social-ism.
Lenin disbanded the worker councils ("soviets") that had sprung up while he was in exile, killed all the actual socialists and he internally called his system state capitalism. Other psychopath politicians copied him because the promise of socialism had a lot of sway with the poorest most uneducated people, an untapped resource in formerly feudal nations. Well they didn't get it. Instead they got what narcissistic psychopath nationalistic politicians do: genocidal totalitarianism. And by that they thoroughly ruined communism. Which is ok, it always had an authoritarian bent.
(Stalin's "communists" in Spain betrayed and together with the fascists and monarchists actively fought the Catalonian socialists in the civil war leading to the socialist's  demise.)
Alternatives are still possible and they are working well, just not at the state level.
[e: fixed a link] >

Every other economic model we had saw even more destructive for environment than capitalism. >

Previous civilizations before the development of science often collapsed because of overuse of soil and resources. Capitalism is doing the same just with full knowledge of whats going to happen – and on a global scale.
But please list the other more destructive economic models you are familiar with. >

Feudalism, communism and every other widespread economic model you can think of. The only reason capitalism seems more destructive is because theres some 9 billion people using it. While if it were 9 billion under feudalism or communism with current technology, I'd wager things would be orders of magnitude worse.
The truth is capitalism is by far the most flexible of all those models and, combined with democracy, it creates opportunity to throughly regulate our economy the way we see fit. That's, again, unlike feudalism or communism where you're at the mercy of kings and dictators. 
But don't bother trying to put things into perspective, just keep screaming about capitalism for your free upvotes. >


Feudalism

was bad for the European forests at the time, since burning wood and coal were the primary sources of heat. Other than that it was pretty benign environmentally. Agriculture was mostly sustainable. That's how humanity got here. Many feudal societies were incredibly well managed: Egypt, Inca, Amazonian civilization... 

Communism

which really was totalitarian state capitalism falsely labelled as communism by its criminal leaders and its capitalist detractors. That's one of two main points in my original comment. Horrendous on the environment, yes. Not recommended.

Capitalism

Please observe the real effects and ongoing environmental collapse, despite ostentatious "opportunity to thoroughly regulate our economy the way we see fit". Despite technology to solve or at least massively decrease all our problems. We're at the mercy of multinational corporations and a monetary system based on extreme wealth extraction. It's inherent to capitalism.

just keep screaming about capitalism for your free upvotes.

You mad? I'm not motivated to write long comments based on research and historical evidence and having tedious discussions for upvotes. I'm pointing out common misconceptions because I'd love to live in a society an environment that's not terminally ill.
[e: typo, wording] >

I can't believe you've so little intellectual integrity you've stooped so low to actually argue that feudalism is more environmentally friendly than capitalism. But then again this is reddit, people are capable of writing the worst garbage just to avoid admitting they're wrong.
And if you think communism cared about the environment at all, you should read a history book. Communist countries absolutely ravaged their environment in their attempt to keep up economically with the West.
All in all, yes, you've jumped onto the capitalism hate wagon without using your brain at all, and now you're embarrassing yourself after being called out for it. >


And if you think communism cared about the environment at all

You're putting words in my mouth. Why?

you've stooped so low to actually argue that feudalism is more environmentally friendly than capitalism.

Instead of attacking the writer you really should back up your statements with actual arguments. >

Actual humans did this. Call them out by name. Not some incorporeal corporate logo. >

Well yes, but that’s the problem with corporations. They are corporeal (hence the name). They are legally people. Absurd. The structure itself is fundamentally flawed. >

If they are legally people, then we should be able to legally charge them with mass murder, and imprison them for life or even execute them. You want the rights of people? Welcome to the responsibilities of people. >

We need to find some equivalent punishment for these “people”.  Dole, exxonmobil, shell, marlboro, dasani, all are directly or indirectly responsible for the deaths of million.  Youre telling me that legally they are considered “people” but the only punishment we have is to increase their taxes or impose a fine thats .05% of their annual profit margin? >

I wonder if we'll ever get to a point where these companies are prosecuted for literal crimes against humanity. >

Unlikely. >

this has been public knowledge for a long time. >

We do live in a perfect world, as in we were created for this planet, we evolved and adapted around this environment, then we changed it and did so in a manner that is unstoppable, and rather than try and prevent making it worse we're still actively pushing on the gas. Shit is getting bad out there and its getting worse every day. 
I don't think we'll make it to another planet, we're not making enough progress, we may be the generation that is the peak of civilization. >

Ya, exactly. Something a lot of people don't think about - gravity. Sure, maybe you can replace an entire atmosphere (good luck doing that). But also good luck finding a planet that feels exactly the same as Earth's gravity. Think motion sickness on a species level. This Earth is an extension of our bodies. And I don't think O'neill cylinders are the solution. Personally I'd go insane being stuck inside a floating machine in space without an actual planet under my feet. >

I worked at XOM for a long time, was an executive, and internally we always accepted it. We had full on company-wide presentations with Sherri Steuwer (the exec in charge of climate at least for a time) where she acknowledged it, shows us all the science, showed what had to be done, etc etc etc.  Meanwhile we were funding almost exclusively climate deniers in Congress.  For a period our head of lobbying was a totally normal woman who since left for a similar job at an airline.  It was a weird cognitive dissonance I could never understand. >

Allow us to clear up the confusion:  $$$$$$$$$ >

But the money machine must go brrrrr!
Exxon and other big oil producers are the next generation of cigarette/Big Tobacco companies. They knew the dangers of their products for generations but continued business as usual and would have never stopped because of the almighty dollar.
The sickening thing, unlike Big Tobacco, is is primarily harming the consumer and limited others (second hand smoke, healthcare costs) Big Oil is wiping out biodiversity and limiting viable habitation for huge percentages of the world. 
It's saddening that, had they not actively fought back against the assumptions their own scientists were aware of and tried to contribute to change from the 70s onward, we could have successfully implemented something to reduce and avoid most of the worst effects. They should be taxed/fined out of existence and the proceeds utilized for alternative fuels and habitat rehabilitation. >

Sounds like the boards for these companies need to whipped out and they should be turned into non-profits. Where every bit of money they make is put into climate research. >

Plot twist - The US nationalizes oil and gets coup'ed by the CIA. >

That already happened in 1999. An environmentalist ran for president. The son of the former head of the CIA and former president was himself elected president under some shady fucking circumstances and despite losing the popular vote by a wide margin. His name is George and he is still a completely useless goddamn moron. Only now he spends his days in Texas painting instead of invading countries for absolutely fabricated bullshit reasons in order to seize oil fields to funnel profits to his oil oligarch buddies. But that's reality for you; the plot is written by the laziest of assholes. >

2000 was a judicial coup >

The price of denialism is the future >

can you explain what this means >

I'm not the person that you replied to, but they are saying that the consequences of denying and obfuscating the science about climate change (and other things) is that we are sacrificing the future of the planet.
Misinformation and disinformation are very valuable to the companies that benefit from generating doubt and delaying legislation to fix these problems... but the whole world will suffer the consequences of the delays. >

Or in other words:
Big lies make humanity's future go bye bye >

That's been public knowledge for a long time. That they used the playbook pioneered by the tobacco industry to publicly deny and obfuscate what they privately knew to be true all along. That deception extended by decades the period of unchallenged fossil fuel expansion and profits. >

Cool. Now sue them >

Arrest them and send them to the Hague to stand trial for crimes against humanity >

And needs to be held accountable >

How are these companies not found for crimes against humanity and fucking dismantled or acquired by the government. >

ExxonMobil is pretty much a terrorist organisation hellbent on killing us all for profit. >

Because rich people know that when doom comes, they will most likely survive it because they have the means to. They're just going to take as much as they can until they can't, then live in their compounds.
I know of a group of cryptobros who made it big during the height of that whole thing... who post pictures of their compounds in Montana or wherever they're building to be as FAR AWAY from people as possible. 
They don't give a fuck about you. But hey, keep voting Republican, poor and middle-class! >

This is a crime against humanity. The people responsible for this should be on trial. This wasn’t ignorance. They knew what they were doing and deliberately buried the truth and obfuscated it. They put profit before the welfare of their fellow human beings. They made a conscious decision. Their actions were criminal. >

New report finds? This news broke like 10 years ago. >

Plenty of old reports came to the same conclusion already. >

Capitalism is a monster that will destroy us all. >

Hasn't this been well known for like, nearly a decade at this point? >

Hold them responsible for solutions and clean up...not just fines...direct their profits and costs...piss off their share holders and then you'll see change >

The scientists who did the studies should hang their heads in shame for allowing the lies to go unchallenged. >

New report?
I thought it was publicly and formally well known the energy sector intentionally played down global warming? >

Are we surprised? Profit>sustaining humanity. Get on board already. >

An actual conspiracy, but I guess not flashy enough for the "free-thinkers" >

Not a conspiracy, just bad behaviour. The conspiracy is them funding climate denial >

All these companies knew and should all have to split the bill for the lies. >

Not exactly new findings, PBS Frontline has a great documentary about this exact topic. >

Many yesterday ago I learned the mega rich in general do not care about anyone but themselves. It isnt like theyll be around long enough to suffer through the cosequences of their actions, so fuck you. >

Of course they knew.  They are in the perfect position to know the real truth, and tell everyone the exact opposite.
How much are you willing to bet that they're building bunkers for themselves and their families for when (not if) climate disasters start killing people by the millions? >

Same way marlboro knew cogs were cancerous? >

Same as the Tobacco CEO's knew exactly what smoking did to people, and did their best to cover it up. >

Acting like this should constitute a crime against humanity in my opinion because they knew that millions or even billions off humans would suffer in the future because of their actions, but they did it anyways because money is their god. >

Sounds like we should Nationalize them. >

Except that the politicians we keep electing are the same people as the corporate leadership. Former Exxon CEO was literally Secretary of State for the last president. 
Putting control of these industries in the government's hands only works if the government its self isn't just as corrupt as the corporations are. >

This is not news, I’ve known this about Exxon and other oil corporations since the early 00s. We even covered it in some classes in undergrad. >

We have know this was coming since the late nineteenth century! Scientists were talking about the effects of industrial pollutants affecting climate since the 1880s! 
This is how idiotic we truly are. >

I'd love to see some Hague like trials of old oil executives who end up getting guillotined live on air, but the best I"ll probably get is being murdered by a Dasani black ops team during the water wars of 2035. >

Can we just sanction these people and their families like we do the Russian oligarchs and take all their wealth. >

And this knowledge has been available for at least 20 years >

I would say these ass hats need to be held accountable but we all know nothing will happen to them. >

Craziest part to me is this isn't news. We known this since the 70s. And now all the political groups who ignored (and paid to keep quiet scientific research) are now acting like they are part of the solution w weak policies. I will not forget. >

This is as evil as evil gets in our modern world. Imagine the people who would make this decision, knowing it impacted the WORLD. 
Simply for a better bonus that year >

Is this not attempted genocide? I'm not trying to be super radical here, but to me if you scale this down to one person in each party, this is basically your neighbor idling his car and running the tailpipe into his house and then trying to cover up the damage you are doing to that neighbor. 
Am I missing something? 
Also enough headlines, where's justice? >

Almost like ppl in power don't care about the consequences of their actions as long at they can get away with it and use propaganda to control the public's reaction to it >

It's January 13th, I have no snow in Canada and it's raining outside.
Thanks Exxon. >

Yeah, and so did a ton of scientists and other groups. Exxon could have came out and said "Our product will burn this world to the ground" and literally nothing would have changed. Let's not act like if only we were better informed, maybe the world wouldn't be in the shitshow it is now. This was a collaborative effort of plugging fingers in ears by a bunch of assholes in positions of power. >

No point blaming Exxon. We have also know since the 90s. And did nothing. >

Make them pay. >

Name and shame the specific executives involved. Dig up their family. Pressure them to donate the estate to philanthropic causes. >

Boomers make planet go boom! We need new leadership. Period. Our old generational post ww2 folks have been to selfish. Got everything and kept it all while burning the planet and the rest of us. >

This has been known since the 90's >

The 1890's. >

Crimes against humanity >

What's the definition and threshold for "Crimes Against Humanity"?
Because it sounds fairly reasonable for sht like this >

For companies like this? About 3.50 (tax deductible though) >

Yeah, but their hardcore climate change denier customers will still consider it to be some kind of liberal plot.  They just really like the sound of revving engines. >

There are some amazing individual Humans, but taken as a whole, Humanity is a dumpster fire. We deserve everything coming our way. >

I'd argue that my 2 year old daughter doesn't deserve any of it. >

I would agree with you completely, and add that 80-90% of the population doesn't deserve any of what is most likely coming. There in lies Humanities largest flaw, we seem destined/ or it is in our nature to always have a small class of sociopaths running our societies, whether it is at the top of government or industry. With technology constantly increasing, the damage these maniacs can output is now at the point of causing mass extinctions, and ruining the environment for ourselves and the other animals. I think the advent of the Military Industrial complex, in the last century, has been one of the worst turns in Human history. War and the production of weapons is now it's own separate economy for most 1st world countries. However far we advance culturally, I see no change in the type of people in power from the beginning of recorded history to the present. The type of people that will wage wars, monopolize industries, and destroy the environment in the name of profit and power, and on top of that, all while knowingly sacrificing the rest of Humanities future. I have been out on dozens of business dinners with CEO's of fortune 500 companies ( as an employee, tag along) where the bills were north of thousands of dollars. I truly do not think people understand what kind of monsters run things. American Psycho, both the book and movie, is a great window into the type of vapid, sociopaths that occupy the ruling class. I hope your daughter is able to live a long and happy life, and I hope we find our way out of this; although, it doesn't seem likely. >

I feel like we kinda knew this already though..? >

They will be in the same boat as big tobacco. >

The more they tried to deny it, the more accurate the prediction became... >

So...they should be ended as a company, right? This action amounts to willful harm of some sort. >

I don't know how stupid this is but I have a tendency to account for lies, denial and randomness in determining the path of society. >

I feel like maybe they should be, you know, held responsible somehow. >

Least surprising headline ever. >

Ya don’t say 🙄 >

Would be interesting to see the twitter files on this >

Yes, everyone knew, everyone knows.
Let's stop trying to establish that fact and use it as a given.
Now let's use a given fact as a platform for change.  We're already 20 years behind schedule... >

This is not new information? >

This is hardly news. PBS and Frontline had a 4 part series spelling out every bit of this information back in October. Did the media just NOW watch it? >

Once we’ve switch the majority of vehicles to electric, easy way to get rid of big oil. Prosecute the companies that buried the study results and wipe them out. >

of course they did. is anyone really surprised? really? >

Greed not only causes other people to stumble it causes planets to burn. Then they're gonna say "we need a new planet this one is running out of stuff to burn!"
Uh solar has beem around over 50 years and they thwarted the expansion on purpose. >

One of my college professors was a former Exxon geologist, who worked at Prudhoe Bay, AK. He said they knew all about what the fossil fuel industry was doing to the environment. 
He taught a planetary climate history class, and it was pretty interesting. He also brought in some of his crude oil samples (stinky stuff) and some mammoth teeth discovered while exploring new areas to drill. >

‘Cast doubt’ is a nice way of saying ‘lie and profit from blood money’ >

For profit.
Duh. >

Pish! So you're claiming the polluters KNEW they were the problem and lied about it? I don't think so, buddy.
Next you'll be spinning some crazy story about how they paid politicians off to deny it or something. I call BS! >

Should be a damn crime. Like saying there is no fire when you know damn well the building is burning. >

shocking. not >

Self regulation works though, riiiiight? >

Hold your gasps please ladies and gentlemen >

They’re still indirectly denying it through greenwashing. >

There won't be a world left for our grandchildren, but imagine how rich we could be! >

So if normal people aren't to blame but governments/corporations and they will not change out of their own initiative whats the plan? Lay down and die or do something about it simple as that.
If you choose the former stop complaining your words are meaningless. >

In related news, the sky is blue. People have this false impression that the oil industry is just filled with a bunch of idiots. Some of the smartest people in the world work in the industry. Deep sea drilling is akin to space exploration in complexity. It’s not ignorance that’s the issue. >

Your annual reminder of this fact. >

It’s not new if we have know for like 20 years now >

Vampires predicted lots of blood from normal people -- but continued secretly sucking blood, ancient report finds. >

In a just world, Exxon would be sued out of existence and all the money used to build carbon capture and green energy technology. >

Actually there were papers written in the late 1800's early 1900's time frame that also predicted it. >

This old news. These papers have been available for at least a decade. >

THIS IS NOT FUCKING NEW! Why haven't we put these mother fuckers up against the wall already? >

It's okay guys, they'll get fined a billion dollars. .. That'll teach them a lesson >

This is the 20th new report to find out about this?
​
So now that we know the rabbit hole goes slightly deeper (even though we're well aware that this rabbit hole exists and is indeed deep), when is something going to get done? >

Exxon? give us names >

"New" report >

So why aren't the fined into the ground? >

This is not news. If memory serves, one of the big fossil fuel companies knew in the 50s. They don't care, they just want money. >

This is not a “hot” take >

Prison for these folks, and complete corporate dismemberment of Enron. Do it. >

And the mainstream media helped them peddle their "doubts" to the masses... and they continue doing the same shit today, just on different topics.
The mainstream media >

We have known this for decades at this point for anyone paying attention, most of this info has been publicly available >

We've seen the same thing over and over again.  Corporations act with impunity and there is no personal accountability.  Until that changes, nothing will. >

They should owe money to all those countries who have to move their residents to higher grounds due to water level rise. Start with Marshal islands. >

Reminds me of the cover up scene in succession where every higher-up doesn't want to be informed of some messed up shit just to be able to claim ignorance on the subject. >

Why am I not surprised? We knew this decades ago, with Al Gore , bet he is saying " told you so". >

Just think if Gore had won against Bush. Gore, Obama, Clinton, Biden.
The US and the world would bd in a better shape. Unfortunately, there is way too many genuinely stupid people out there for democracy to work >

Fucking. Punish. Them. 
These companies are causing untold damage, suffering and death over long spans of time. >

How to counter them:

Invest in renewable energy sources such as solar, wind, and geothermal. 
Support legislation that encourages the use of alternative energy sources. 
Support legislation that increases taxes and fees on oil producers. 
Promote sustainable transportation and energy conservation. 
Support research and development of green technologies. >

You mean people knew what people knew but companies don't care because they get money and screw over the rest of the world? I'm the shocked. Although fuck all will happen >

r/WeDidTheMathButFuckYou >

And yet they're still in business...how does that work? What happened to competition? I would like to not buy my oil from Exxon please...they've been willfully, knowingly murdering the environment for 50+ years now. They could have pushed for nuclear and other alternative solutions instead of sitting on their hands and watching the world burn. So why do they still exist? >

It feels like the oil compagnies are testing if people will somewhat react or if everyone will just forget about it to each get back in their own little world. Then they will truly know they rule/own the world and get away will litteral crime agains't humanity. ( Which is very likely to happen ) >

at least they pay the price for it now,right?Right?!RIGHT??!!/s >

Get ready for them to blame the consumers. >

We’ve known this.. >

You mean like how CNN and the mainstream media knew about climate change for decades, but acted like the science was in doubt?  
I wish americans understood irony better. >

This was…and still is….a crime. >

We’re just saying but not really cause profits, you know? >

Wish we could get them for crimes against humanity. >

Do we take all their money and shut em down yet or donee need more than they engineered the destruction of our only home >

The only solution is to hold companies like this criminally liable. I don’t care if they’re 80 years old. Throw these bastards in prison if they are going to negatively affect billions of people. 
Otherwise, there is no incentive for them to stop. >

This is in almost every sub.  Bots doing the rounds? 
So accurate is a stretch.  Wasn't the one page graph which was just a replication of others work from 7+ years earlier and wasn't it dated 1982.
Also the science used to make the graph was wrong.  But it's still science if you get sort of close to the right result but for the wrong reasons right?
The only thing the copied work got right was there when be a general warming trend.  There was no real details or explanation attached to the graph, so who knows what they used it for.
I'm guessing a meeting, titled, "this is what other scientists are saying so we copied thier work to see if they did the calculations correctly and they did". >

IMO This sort of world ending behaviour should result in in the complete dismantling of a company with all execs ending up in jail. >

Exxon's moral obligation is that of their fiduciary responsibility to their stakeholders. They have acted in a moral manner. >

I totally wanted to walk everywhere and never go on vacation and not heat my house or own all this plastic junk but Big Oil FORCED me to consume consume consume consume.  It’s all their fault not mine >

Demand meets supply. If petrol is cheap people will drive. >

Right and big oil forced the American car makers to abandon the sedan and build more SUVs and pickup trucks.  The consumer has no say. >

I don’t know why you’re being so sarcastic, it is possible for more than 1 thing to contribute to climate change >

Found someone on exxons payroll. >

For someone who's always studied weather, you don't seem to actually know much about it. Like the difference between "weather" and "climate", for example. >

Did the dinosaurs drive cars too? Co2 right now is 425 ppm ... dinosaur days 5000+ ppm. >

Hey, dummy, didn't you know what during the time of the dinosaurs, that area levels were 200ft higher than today?  And didn't you know what the tropics were so warm, during that time, that it was largely uninhabitable and tropical ocean waters were devoid of life (due to hypoxia)? >

You don't know that. Name caller means you are not mature so maybe you should grow up a lil bit and quit thinking you know everything. >

I do know that, as science shows clear evidence. And since you made such a silly earlier comment, it's clear that science is not your thing.