>

But the difference is one is appropriating another gender and one is appropriating a birth defect, no?
/u/Heap_Good_Firewater (OP) has awarded 2 delta(s) in this post.
All comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.
Please note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.
^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards >

At first I thought it was a typo until I saw it repeated over and over. 
The heck is a nibling? >

Gender-neutral for niece or nephew. I have accidentally said “nibblet” a couple times >

Pardon me, but what exactly is the derogatory h-word you mentioned?
hetero? homo? >

Probably hermaphrodite >

Isnt that the scientific term for that phenomenon tho? >

Not in humans. It’s called ”intersex”. ”Hermaphodite” is a zoological term. >

Ah TIL ty! >

Same.  42 years old.  never knew it was wrong to say hermaphrodite >


I draw the line at "non-binary". What are the odds you’re exactly 50/50? 

Non-binary doesn't mean "half and half." >

If you’re not half and half, then you must identify slightly more with one gender, right?
My question is why not go with that gender (again, regardless of sex at birth)? >

If you don't like chocolate or vanilla it's not a matter of 50/50, it doesn't necessarily mean you like any other flavour either. >

OK, this is interesting, but also concerning.
My friend's son was traumatized to have female body parts. He would wrap his breasts tightly (probably too tightly) when going to school.
Based on your analogy, they hate chocolate, and chocolate is what they are being served, but switching to vanilla won't help. 
At least gender reassignment (not only talking about the surgical/hormonal option) can offer some increased quality of life for trans men and women. It seems like a non-binary person can't be happy period. Hopefully it is more complicated than that. >

I know you're already done with this thread (as per the edits) but I wanted to add something that might help here. You're actually right on this one. I identify as nonbinary but the more accurate would be agender. Being chocolate is horrible for me but becoming vanilla wouldn't help or change anything, it would be equally horrible in different ways. And that sucks. It sucks that there are no good options but honestly the REAL reason it sucks is that even though there are no good options for me I'm still forced to pick a side and picking a side when all sides are horrible, deeply upsetting options is a really terrible place to be. I'm forced to pick a side bc, here's the thing about gender, it's both a personal identity and a social identity. People put their gendered expectations on me everywhere I go, I get zero say in that, it just happens as a normal, standard aspect of existing in a gendered society. Everyone I meet sees me as some kind of gender and whatever their ideas are about how I look to them inform how they treat me and what they expect of me so my options are either fight a losing battle (since most people who've spent their entire lives living in a gendered society and seeing everything through a gendered lens aren't going to magically stop having gendered expectations just bc they upset me) or just accept it and move on. I choose to accept it and move on bc I personally dont feel like wasting energy on impossible battles... but I still hate it (don't mistake composure for ease). Every interaction I have that involves people picking a side for me is in some way terrible for me. Sometimes it's in small ways, sometimes it's more significant, but it's always there, it's like chronic pain but emotional and social. And I accept living this way simply bc there's no option for living without it, if I could opt out of the gendered system I'd do it in a heartbeat but I can't so constant emotional pain is the only option (since I'm not going to choose nonexistence over this but there are plenty of suicidal non binary people in the world who'd rather not exist than exist that way). 
So yes, it is distressing to be agender or non binary in this way, you're absolutely right to be concerned, it's incredibly concerning. >

Δ 
I have read responses from people who roughly fit my stereotype of non-binary as people who are “exploring and experimenting” with their gender, but are not overly disturbed by the minor disconnect between their sex and gender.
I was surprised to hear stories like yours, and they sound more like the stories of trans men and women that I am familiar with. 
It has certainly made me think. At the very least, there is more diversity in the non-binary world than I suspected.
Don’t let people like me get you down. Society gradually but inexorably becomes more progressive, but there are setbacks along the way. Hang in there. >

Couldn't non binary also simply mean someone who doesn't care for the whole concept of gender to begin with and wishes others wouldn't be seeing them as one of two genders. Experimenting isn't really something that comes to mind when I hear non binary. Maybe it's because I've always thought gender stereotypes and treating people according to gender stereotypes is ridiculous that the opposition to gender binary aspect is the first thing to come to mind when I hear non binary . Personally I've always been indifferent to which gender other people see me as but being seen as a man also doesn't bother me enough for me to tell people to stop assuming. >

Nah, that would be non-chalant not non-binary >

My view of my own gender is definitely non chalant or indifferent yes. But wouldn't someone who finds the whole concept of gender offensive to begin with and doesn't wish to identify as one for that reason be non-binary? >

Don’t ask me I only tried to post a funny comment I don’t have the critical thinking required to weigh in with any real conviction >

Hello! I’m non-binary. As others have said, “exactly 50-50” isn’t so much a thing. I identify as neither man nor woman. I’m not a butch woman or an effeminate man. I’m just a person who had massive gender dysphoria before surgery.
I also don’t correct people about my pronouns, because it turns out I don’t want my gender or lack thereof being discussed at every possible opportunity. I don’t call myself non-binary for any perceived benefit; it just happens to perfectly describe my experience. >

Doesn't this just enforce gender roles? 
No one is the perfect embodiment of man or woman and everyone deviates from what those terms imply in many aspects. Someone being non binary implies they deviate from what we consider men and women too, but non binary considers those terms more strict than they actually are.
Effeminate men are still men like you said, humans without arms or legs are still humans, women who have hysterectomies are still women etc. It seems more like a rejection for rejection's sake. >

Hey, I’m honestly all for “rejection for rejection’s sake”. To me, gender stuff is stupid! But if you’re going to eliminate the term non-binary because it’s unnecessary, you surely have to do the same with man and woman, too. They’re all as unnecessary as each other. 
That said, I also know that it’s important to some people. They really care about the role society puts on them. So as long as they’re not espousing any particularly toxic views, they can go ahead and do what they want. 
While I do have ideas about gender, primarily, all I care about is getting to live in the body I want. I can live with the stupid labels. >

I'm not saying we should eliminate the term, just that we recognize it probably is reinforcing gender roles more than it's dismantling them. I find that societally interesting given how much pushback there is for gender roles in modern rhetoric. >

Like everyone else, trans and non-binary people fulfill or reject gender roles at completely different levels from one another. I don’t think there’s any way to say that their existence in general validates these roles any more than the fact that the words ‘man’ and ‘woman’ exist at all. 
But I’m not a gender theorist. I’m not the person who should be arguing this specific point. It just feels weird to be told I’m reinforcing gender roles because I had some surgery. >

Everyone is non binary in terms of perfectly adhering to one end of the gender spectrum. It's also a moving target so even if someone was the perfect embodiment of "man" 100 years ago in the West, they may not be now. 
No one is the perfect pinnacle of man or woman and extracting oneself from that equation entirely is basically saying that there's zero configuration of the man / woman continuum that could possibly describe someone accurately. We're all humans with human parts, we are going to be accurately described by some configuration of the terms we use to describe humans. That's why non binary seems like it's something performative. Non binary doesn't seem to be used as "somewhere in the middle," it's used to say that someone is outside the gender continuum entirely and that reinforces the idea that man and woman are too restrictive to embody some humans and that reinforces gender roles.
An example is building something. Men traditionally build stuff, women don't traditionally build stuff according to very strict gender roles. If a man doesn't build stuff, that doesn't make him a woman. If a woman builds stuff, that doesn't make her a man. If someone rejects the idea of building stuff, that doesn't make them outside that continuum, that aspect just doesn't really apply to them because that one aspect doesn't dictate whether someone exists on a sliding scale. So consequentially, essentially saying someone exists outside of the human gender spectrum reinforces that the spectrum has bounds. It doesn't really, it's just a sliding scale that encompasses the entirety of human gender expression. It's not even gendered at that point, we include everything on the scale because it's a representation of the range of our behaviors as humans. >

I can’t find anything I disagree with in that. The one question for me is why are man and woman still the ends of the spectrum at all? It’s clearly pretty useless in most areas! >

Being non-binary doesn't mean 'being 50/50'. Gender presentation (such as being an effeminate man or being a tomboy) also has nothing to do with transgender people. 
Being non-binary isn't about getting anything, it's about who a person is - non-binary in the same way that you're your gender and I'm my gender.
Intersex people (in which hermaphrodite is a highly offensive term, from what I recall) for the most part also don't use they/them pronouns. >

Can you define being non-binary? How does one know that they are non-binary if they have no basis to go on? What does it practically mean for their life? (I am genuinely trying to learn) >

I'd ask non-binary people. The extent of my knowledge of non-binary people is that it's both a nominer for a gender and a collection of genders which don't fit the binary of 'man' and 'woman', meaning that the answer likely varies even wider than if you asked individual men or women, given the sheer expanse of what the descriptor contains.
In terms of practicality, though, I imagine it's the same as what it means for you to be your gender and what it means for me to be a man. >

I don't think it means *anything* to be a certain gender. Any expectations or stereotypes associated with either gender is just socially constructed. I just don't understand why being non-binary is necessary or what inside them compels them to reject the gender binary >

Expectations and stereotypes mean nothing, sure, I'm wholly for removing all expectations and stereotypes. Gender itself isn't limited to them. Anyone of any gender can flip the bird to all of them and still be their own gender. That doesn't mean that we all fit into two categories of gender. >

But why? That's the part I don't understand. If you strip out the expectations and stereotypes etc., what is left to disagree with? >

The description of their gender doesn't match with 'man' or 'woman'.
I don't fit the description of every man or even most men but my gender is still that of a man. That's simply what I am, the descriptive term that fits my gender, where non-binary doesn't. For non-binary people (at least, those who's gender doesn't have any ties to being men), it's the opposite. >

That seems exceedingly ill defined. Thank you though, I will think on it >

I happened to mention to my daughter that when I've been single I think of myself as a "person" rather than a "woman". She said, "Mum - you're non-binary!" Idk if this helps at all. I don't feel any gender dysphoria, though. >

nonbinary can also mean you don't identify as either gender identities >

I will never understand this, but for the sake of argument let’s say that’s true.
Why not identify publicly with sex at birth to make your daily life easier? >


Why not identify publicly with sex at birth to make your daily life easier?

Imagine if everyone constantly misgendered you. Would you switch to make your daily life easier? >

I don’t believe that non-binary is a gender, so this argument only makes sense for trans people (whom I wouldn’t misgender on purpose). >

Do you identify as male or female? >

Male >

If you were constantly referred to as female, would you change your identity to make your daily life easier? >

Yes? Not OP, and it would seem bizarre, but my sex is like my skin or eye colour, or my ethnicity. Why should I care? Why should anyone care about what theirs is, beyond how it affects how people treat you? 
It would bother me more that it's technically incorrect than if it felt somehow an inadequate descriptor.
I cannot seem to comprehend why people care, beyond acknowledging a discomfort and obsession with being different that cannot be satisfied any other way. I don't blame people for feeling that way, but I don't understand. >

Well I remember coming of age in the early 2000s when it was at least part of the conversation to be gay/lesbian, but being bisexual just meant you were probably a slutty college girl that wanted attention. Obviously, we know that was wrong. >


I draw the line at "non-binary". What are the odds you’re exactly 50/50?

That's not what Non-binary means.  It means your identity is not best expressed or experienced as a member of either binary gender category.  You don't have to be exactly half man half woman in terms of your gender.  
Most of the non-binary people I know identify that way because they feel more comfortable not identifying as either male or female.  That's the "advantage", same as any other gender identity (including cisgender), more or less. >

Curious, what is the reason for someone’s pronouns being her/them? They are ok with being female pronouns but then added on a nonbinary pronoun for what reason? >

They mean they're ok with either female or non-binary pronouns. >

I guess what’s confusing to me is if you are neither man nor woman then why include a pronoun that identifies you as a man or woman? >

They aren't necessarily saying they're non-binary. Just that they're fine with non-binary pronouns (which can be used for anybody).
Or they are non-binary but are saying it's fine if you use binary pronouns matching their birth sex because they don't care too much about it. >

Do people need to consent to be called they/them though?  I would think that’s not necessary and just part of language sometimes… >

Sometimes people include it as an indication of support for the concept of they/them pronouns in general, or just to indicate that they'll be okay with it if you like, forget their binary pronoun and default to an ambiguous one or something like that. 
For some people (usually trans people who have a lot of dysphoria or trauma from misgendering), sticking exclusively to their binary pronoun is important. Saying you use he/they or she/they can basically just be saying "it won't bother me if you call me they". >

Hermaphrodite’s or those with genitals not matching their body because of extra chromosomes or those missing parts because of broke chromosomes has nothing to do with transgenderism or non-binary…ism. Those are genetic mutations. Legitimate mess ups. What is happening though is that a lot of people are trying use actual genetic mutations to build a more solid foundation under their viewpoint. Like I promise nobody polled all the 5 hermaphrodites and asked them if the hermaphrodite was offensive. They need to get rid of the word hermaphrodite because lots of people know what it means and thus ruins the whole argument. >

You can either think of it as
Purple is not red or blue. It is purple. It has pieces of both but to call it red is just wrong, it's not red it's purple..
Or
Yellow. It has nothing to do with red or blue, it does not contain red or blue, it is a completely different color. Just because it's not red does not make it blue. 
Has there never been a day where you didn't feel masculine? Where you didn't want to do the masculine thing. You don't want to do anything feminine, you just don't want to do the masculine. >


Has there never been a day where you didn't feel masculine? Where you didn't want to do the masculine thing. You don't want to do anything feminine, you just don't want to do the masculine

this is a bad example. this describes every human. >

Now imagine feeling that every day. You don't feel masc or fem. Or you always feel both masc and fem. That's what their nibbling feels.
OP said they could not understand nonbinary so I related it to something they might have felt themself at some point. >

TIL I'm non-binary (a person) >

I'm mean... Do you always feel like you don't want to be masc or fem? Or do you always feel like you want to be both?
Because it's up to you how you identify but those are the two most common non binary feelings.
You don't have to identify as anything. Like I am AFAB and am fine living as a cis woman, but I have strong penis envy and like a lot of masc thing and not so many fem things. I internally identify as I-dont-give-a-shit which I have non binary friends tell me they often feel the same. >

Who thinks in these terms on a daily basis. You just are who you are. Your internal voice actually says things like "I don't feel like doing this feminine thing" ? You just don't feel like doing that thing, and thats it.
The whole gender identity is so ill-defined there is actually no point, in my perspective. You just are who you are. We need to just stick to addressing people with their sex and keep your "gender identity" away from the facts >


the h-word is offensive/derogatory. "Middlesex" from here on out. Apologies

Small nitpick, "intersex." Source: Dated an intersex guy in college. He had both bits. It was pretty neat. >

That’s what I meant. My wife has a book called Middlesex in our bookshelf and somehow that sprang to mind >

It just means “look at me!” >

I think that's dismissive. Tbh I think it's more like people who feel like they lack control in life. Maybe from some previous trauma where agency was taken from them or disrespected, or a mountain of those instances. They'd probably call this evaluation dismissive too though, so what do I know. >

I think one or both is usually true, but you’re right. It is funny that the person you described is the type that is most prone to joining cults. >

I don’t understand it either. Non binary makes no sense to me.
But it also doesn’t matter if it makes sense to me. Like, I personally don’t understand a lot of things other people go through. It’s one of those things, you don’t really have to understand. >

every individual's experience of their gender is unique and valid
for some people, identifying as non-binary is a way to express that their gender identity does not align with traditional binary concepts of "male" or "female.” >

Why is everyone's experience of gender automatically valid? >

Especially when if it were someone’s experience of race they’d be shut down, even though the differences between races are way smaller than those between sexes >

People call this false equivalence but then can't explain why >

If you're willing to accept someone transitioning into the other binary gender, why is it so difficult to accept that someone doesn't think they fit into either binary gender? What makes that so silly?
More importantly, every single one of your arguments was used against binary trans people. Why are you right when those people were wrong? >

I'm non-binary, and it's honestly just a matter of comfort for me. I was assigned female at birth but being called a woman or by she/her pronouns makes me uncomfortable. Truth be told I don't really know why. I am feminine, but I don't feel like a woman. 
When I was a kid I wanted to be a boy until I hit puberty and I realized being a boy meant becoming a man and I didn't want that. I liked the gender ambiguity I felt that boys were allowed (not much, but not immediately being assumed to love barbies was enough for me) but not the level of masculinity that men had. When I got old enough to know what they/them pronouns were, I started going by she/they (because I thought I'm comfortable with either). Then a friend asked me 'which pronoun do you prefer though?' and I realized "shit, I prefer they." and then I realized "shit, I can ask people to just always call me they!". That realization made me both happy and scared. When people call me they it makes me feel very happy, so I was excited to know that about myself. But I was also terrified because I realized that I am not someone who looks gender androgynous and this will not be an easy path for me. That's still how I feel, and I know my family will probably feel how you do if I come out so I am trying to avoid anyone in my family finding out while still being non-binary in a professional setting. 
Here's my take on it as someone who has went through it. I don't understand people who use neo-pronouns (other than he/she/they). I don't know of any scientific evidence that their identities are valid. But I also don't care, because there was also a time when there was no scientific evidence around gay people and it was widely considered to be a choice. I realize that what I should accept should be anyone who is not hurting other people, and other than that I just choose to not care. There will always be people who are part of an identity who are faking it maybe because they have a mental illness or something, but if I risk harming someone who is not faking it by assuming that they are it isn't worth it. 
There is history and evidence behind non-binary identities which I'm sure is covered in other comments, but even if there weren't it shouldn't change your stance on believing that it is a 'thing'. Unless the person is hurting someone, it's always better to just validate that person's feelings because you don't live inside their head. If you have doubts as to the authenticity of a person's claims and are seriously concerned about their mental health, direct them to a doctor. But don't make those doubts clear yourself because it will not ever help. Instead you'll just cause them to isolate themself and hate themself more. 
Always validate people who aren't hurting others. It often helps and can never hurt. >

As others are saying, non-binary doesn’t mean that you’re right in the middle of the gender binary, but you fall outside of the gender binary. I’m a cis man so my knowledge is limited but I definitely know that much. >

If there can be 100 genders then why can't non-binary be the thing. Anyone can indentify with anything. It may not sound meaningful to you but it is for them. >

Someone who I know is non binary, they don't ever correct pro nouns. They're whoever they want to be, and they accept however they're perceived. >

Another aspect that doesn't seem to be captured here is the dynamic of fluidity. Labels tend to fix peoples gender and the truth is especially for highly gender fluid people. (fluidity being on a spectrum) some people that call themselves non binery are possably people who don't fix their identy one way or another but at differing times may express their gender in varying steriotypical ways over time. I don't think one need be completly bland and just wear gender neutral clothing to be non binery.  One could very well be a spicy variety of non binery and that's acceptable. In the end it's an internal identification rather than a form of external expression.  I may be wrong though, in that fluidity may not at all be a factor in pervasive gender neutrality.  Either or is OK with me. >

You say you are open to using they them if someones chromosomes are intersex but otherwise you aren’t. To me this is really bizarre. 
Why do you respect binary trans people desire to be referred to by a pronoun that dosent match their chromosomes but don’t respect the same for non-binary? >

I have several friends that are medical specialists in this field. I don’t fully understand it myself. But the way it was explained to me is that there is Gender, Sex, and sexuality. There are a myriad of genes that cause and/or affect each one of these aspects of the human being. In most cases, you wind up with a human whose gender, sex, and sexuality all line up as either male, or female. For example I think and feel like a male, I have male genitalia, and I am sexually attracted to people who present with female attributes. 
In about 2-10% of ALL mammal populations, the genes and gene expressions don’t “line up” cohesively on one end of the spectrum or the other. These individuals could present as female, think like a male, but have both male AND female genitalia. Others can think they are female, have male genitalia, and are attracted to people who present with male attributes. They could also think like a female, present as a male, but are sexually attracted to females. And several other combinations I haven’t mentioned or thought about.
So the idea that non-binary doesn’t exist, is like saying you can’t mix paint. Or better yet, you can’t have red hair, brown eye brows, and a cleft chin. Gene expression is super complex and varied. And often present in unique and special ways. These people used to be considered special and were revered by their community as having some connection with the Devine.
Heck, there’s a population in South America where they have a unique adolescents transition that delays when a child with male genitalia have those genitalia descend. So you have families that have 2 daughters until adolescents. When suddenly one of those “daughters” suddenly starts to show male genitalia. Sexuality, and gender expression is way more fascinating than our white, privileged, Christian culture has allowed us to know about.
[Edited to add] personally, “non-binary” is a great way to say, “I haven’t chosen to lean heavy in one specific way.” Either because they don’t want to, don’t care to, or don’t find a specific label self affirming. But I also realize that there would be combinations that would be best described as non-binary.
[Edit 2] I have been corrected in that “thinking female or male” isn’t a thing. I clearly don’t understand gender very well, lol. And I was reminded that my language could imply that any of this is a decision. Not my intention at all. >


It seems like they just want attention.

Even assuming that's true.... What makes you think literally every non-binary person in the world is doing it for the same reason?

What are the odds you’re exactly 50/50?

That's not what non-binary means.

What advantage does a non-binary person gain

Why are you assuming they are doing it only for gain? If a person feels like "non-binary" more closely reflects what the feel inside, why the fuck do you care? >

How can someone feel that they are non-binary? >

It’s different for ever single person but a common way is They don’t identify with male of female, they feel out of place and just being seen  just “androgynous” like how people saw  David Bowie for example is not how they want to be seen . The feel it goes deeper
Than that. They then see all these cultures in history and people today who feel the same way they do. 
There doesn’t need to be a concrete understanding just a common one with others to realize it’s a thing. Plenty of emotions and states of beings people can’t explain clearly with words unless you yourself have experienced it also. You can’t even really explain colors to people unless they have the ability to see colors themselves. >

But can’t feelings also be subjective and arbitrary; sometimes not even rooted in reality? >

These feelings of being outside the binary  are well documented and studied throughout many cultures both causally and academically. 
Who are you to say it’s not grounded in reality? We know biologically sex isn’t binary intersex exists (and no not all intersex people are people with reproductive medical issues many are fully functioning healthy people ) so why can’t gender identity also be not binary? >

We also know that 99.9% of biological males identify with being male, the same stat goes for woman. Intersex people make up less than 0.7% of the population; it is a sexual anomaly - not evidence that a “third” sex exists. The majority of intersex people also identify with either being biologically male or female, not neither or both. >

Intersex actually makes up between 1-2 percent with the most recent numbers. .7 percent is an older statistic when intersex was still struggling to be recognized by the medical industry and wasn’t being studied. 
Red hair is the same amount of genetic mutation rarity. Do you think red hair isn’t a valid hair color?
And I never said intersex people have to identify as something outside the binary. I’m simply point out sex isn’t binary. >

I am not entirely sure what you’re trying to argue? >

You say because of its rarity intersex isn’t a valid sex category outside the binary ones* correct? I’m saying red hair is a genetic mutation with the same amount of rarity. 
Do you think because if it’s rarity red hair should not be seen as a hair color and should instead be grouped with one of the other more prominent hair colors?
(*intersex is more than just one thing it wouldn’t be just “third sex” there are at least 6 different sex chromosomes combinations when you include intersex ) >

But the original discussion is about non-binary; not intersex. Most people who identify as being non-binary are not intersex >

You not thinking “non-binary” is a thing doesn’t have any bearing on the fact that it is, indeed, a thing. I understand not getting it, but your stance is either a personal aversion (which is hard to change with logic) or a statement of fact that isn’t opinion-based and isn’t objectively true. Non-binary has been a thing long before this era, with multiple cultures establishing a third gender or even more, including multiple Native-American cultures. 
Think of it this way: what other adjectives can you name that actually exist only on a binary? Temperature, light and dark, wet and dry, all spectrums. Even alive/dead is a spectrum— people can have no brain function but have a working heart, or the other way around. People can be in a coma. Viruses are both alive and not alive. 
Personal characteristics like health, intelligence, morality, athleticism, sexuality, and development are also on spectrums. If we forced everyone to act like they were either 0 or 100% along every spectrum, it would force people into a stressful, dishonest position where they would be forced to deny a TON about themselves. We don’t force people to deny that they play either football or volleyball in order to do the other. 
As we gain cultural awareness of gender being more than just biology, we’re understanding the complexity far better than we did, and understanding that asking some people to be either gender is to ask them to lie about parts of themselves. Anything complex has more than black and white. Gender does too. 
That anxiety and depression that you mentioned in relation to gender identity also isn’t a black-white thing, so many people feel anxiety about not fitting EITHER gender, and have to reconcile it with their happiness. You understand that binary trans individuals will be happier and more comfortable if they identify as their chosen gender— what about nonbinary people telling you that somewhere in the middle makes them happiest? Does it have to be abject misery/suicidality for it to be worth improving? I’m not saying that you’re arguing that, but you get my point. Being non-binary hurts no one and has no issues other than people being like “well… it seems kinda weird.” I would ask you what reason you’d have for NOT thinking it exists despite any/all evidence to the contrary. >

Would you agree that sex is a binary (with exceptions for middlesex and very rare chromosomal anomalies)?
I believe that gender is fairly tightly tied to sex. The spectrum is heavily weighted to one side, more so than sexual preference if you believe the statistics on transgender.
Gender is a spectrum, but not like temperature, more like athleticism. A vanishingly small slice of the athleticism spectrum will ever play professional sports. The trans portion of the gender spectrum is much larger than the pro-sports slice, but it is still pretty small.
The genders of "male" and "female" are still fairly useful and predictive (for trans men and women also). Yes, they are influenced by culture, but I still believe there are innate gender (not just sex) characteristics that are heavily represented in the male gender and not nearly as much in the female (and vice versa).
My point is that we should support transgender people, but we need not pretend that male and female aren't still useful distinctions. >


very rare chromosomal anomalies

Estimates and definitions vary, but the low end of the range is 0.018% of the population is intersex (the high end is 1.7%). Assuming it's only 0.018% of the population, that's nearly 2 in 10,000 people. That's not insignificant. That's around 54,000 people just in the US. At minimum, more than 1.4 million intersex people in the world. I don't think it's reasonable to write 1.4 million people off as an anomaly that might as well not exist. >

Significance is measured in percentage. 0.018% is not significant, and recalculating it to an absolute number doesn't make it more significant just because the number is high.

I don't think it's reasonable to write 1.4 million people off as an anomaly that might as well not exist.

Significance is not importance. If we say that >98% of humans can be categorized into two sexes, it it totally reasonable to approximate sex as a binary. There is no moral statement about those that don't fit the approximation in that. >


If we say that >98% of humans can be categorized into two sexes, it it totally reasonable to approximate sex as a binary

Totally reasonable for what though?  It may be fine for some things, but excluding a percent or two of the population for, say, healthcare, or government systems, sounds really bad.
Whether a given percentage is significant or not depends on context.  0.018% of something isn't inherently insignificant because it's a small number. >

I think that part of the benefit to talking about it is the exposure for other people who might otherwise believe that they’re freaks without knowing others like them. As I saw recently, “there’s a benefit to knowing that you’re a perfectly normal zebra instead of thinking that you’re an incorrect horse.” 
If you’re a fifty year old man who had to struggle to find out that they like men the way they’re “supposed” to like women and feel COMPLETELY alone in that fact, you can save someone else a lot of pain by standing up and showing pride in who you are, sexuality and all. There’s strength, charity, and community in using your own struggles to drown out some VERY loud bullies for the younger generations. The movement wouldn’t exist if it weren’t for people who have tried for centuries to squash all hint of an entire identity. >

I think of myself as non binary, but I never really knew that until the term started becoming more well known. 
But at this point, I’m just exhausted talking about it. It has nothing to do with wanting attention. People have asked my pronouns and I just say “whatever, I don’t care. Whatever vibe you get from me, call me that.” 
I think it’s become more “popular” and seems like a fad to some people, but for me I just never had a way to identify how I felt growing up. I never called myself non binary until recently (I’m 33.)
My brain feels trans but not to a degree that I want to change my body. I do kinda wish I was born the opposite sex but I’ve just gotten so used to living a “normal” life that I just don’t really have the energy to do that kind of transition. So I just do whatever I want and don’t really think too hard about the labels but “non binary” 100% is how I feel. >


My brain feels trans but not to a degree that I want to change my body. I do kinda wish I was born the opposite sex but I’ve just gotten so used to living a “normal” life that I just don’t really have the energy to do that kind of transition.

Thank you for explaining it this way. This is 100% exactly how I feel even though I don't identify as non-binary. I still don't under the label "non-binary" because it feels like such a hassle still. If I look like a woman, there's no point in constantly correcting people who can't physically see that I am non-binary, so I just continue living as a woman with she/her pronouns even though I would prefer to be a man.
I'm guessing being non-binary is more about a lack of care for pronouns? >

It doesn’t really have to do with pronouns at all for me. I kinda feel like I’m too old to care the way that young people do now. 
It’s all so exhausting to think about and deal with. I mean, truly exhausting, in my own head, and then having to talk about it, so I just gave up on talking about it and I live how I want to live. 
I let the close people in my life know so they they wouldn’t be all weirded out or have a million questions if I show up wearing make up or a dress or something like that. 
But beyond that, the only word I can think of is “exhausted.” It feels like more energy than it’s worth to have to talk about it or correct people or give a fuck about pronouns. 
However, some rando at a gas station check out line recently said “she can go first, I’m just waiting for someone else” and it made me giddy. I wasn’t even looking particularly feminine IMO. 
But I’m not delusional. I know I’m not a woman. I’m not gonna try to say that “I’ve always been a woman and demand to be treated as such!” >

Is it so hard to believe that some people experience dysphoria and don't want to transition to a binary gender? Or that some people have deep misgivings about being identified within the binary paradigm? That some people really don't feel like either man or woman?
If some people feel secure in one aspect of what we take for granted as the human experience it seems there are always others who find it troubling or restrictive. I don't know why this would warrant your contempt or what exactly rolling your eyes is intended to accomplish. >

Can you describe what it's like to not feel like a man or woman? There are no qualities inherent to being a man or woman from a gender perspective so I'm not sure how you can just say you are not either >

I'm not NB so I'm not the best person to ask, but I know one AFAB NB person who agonizes over whether to bind or wear a bra or neither, they feel dysphoric being seen as a woman, but transitioning and living as a man didn't work for them either, and they feel most comfortable presenting as androgynous. 
I also know an AMAB NB person who was raised very Christian and felt completely smothered, restricted, and coerced by male gender norms. They are just much happier not identifying as male or female, and they like embracing classically feminine aspects of presentation from time to time with makeup and nail polish but sometimes it's just easier to put on jeans and a T-shirt and not make waves >

Hmm, interesting. It's definitely good that they feel happier to identify as NB, but a part of me still says that doesn't mean it's necessary. Like, they could very easily do these things while still identifying as a gender right? So the fact that they are nonbinary doesn't really change anything about their life. The only thing that would change is their pronouns, potentially >

I can wear a dress while identifying as a man, but it's not enough for a trans woman to simply change her appearance and live with being reminded that she's still considered a man. We're affected by the way we're perceived. Why do you think people assert their pronouns and discuss novel definitions of gender? Do you think they would invite the drama and judgment just for attention? >

I mean... a lot of people who identify as being NB are teens/young adults. I wouldn't put it past them to do stuff for attention. I certainly did stuff like that as a teen >

If teens do act out, is that abnormal or harmful?
Neither of my examples are teens. If you wish to dismiss them as attention seekers, that's your prerogative but I don't think it's accurate to say that you support trans people. >

No, it's not necessarily harmful. I don't think there's any harm associated with anything here, I just think it's a bit silly >

Dysphoria is silly? >

Not dysphoria, people identifying as nonbinary or genderfluid etc. or asking for neopronouns. Like sure, I'll indulge you, but in my head I'll still roll my eyes >

My parents are very accepting of gay people but don't get trans. I am trans but struggle with non-binary identities. I daresay the next generation are going to be weirded out by, idk, transhumanists or something. Even if we don't get something, we need to accept it and not repeat the same judgey shit as previous generations. >

Why is something valid just because someone claims it is? Why do we need to just accept everything and not attempt to test an assertion through logic, science and rational thinking? If it’s fact, then it would stand up against these sorts of questions, no? 
I am supportive of trans and non-binary people. But I really struggle with the common assertion that asking questions and attempting to examine their statements is somehow intolerant. The pursuit of truth is the primary objective which benefits everyone. >


I have known two separate sets of parents who have dealt with gender dysphoria in their children.

Hey, genuine question. Of the new children around you, what your observed rate of gender dysphoria ?
I am still working on my beliefs around 'fashions' vs 'base rates'. This would help. Thanks. >

I'm also confused. >

The axioms used to justify the conceptual separation of sex and gender are incoherent so any discussion about non binary vs trans is from the jump just going to be arguing over who’s incoherent concept is more coherent.      Waste of time. >

I don't see how "hermaphrodite" is offensive. A quick Google search shows its origin, if anything that is sucking up to them more than anything, referring to them as "those like a descendant of the gods."
That just seems like another instance of people trying to be offended and victimized by everything they can think of. Idk, please enlighten me chat if I am not seeing the full picture (maybe if someone is reeeeeally atheistic they might not like the term?) >

Gender is made up. It’s societal, not biological (like, for example, sex is). Doctors who specialize in mental health are of the opinion that if looking or acting a way that’s outside of typical gender norms and doesn’t hurt anyone stops people from hating themselves, or even if it just makes them a little happier, they should do that. It’s not that complicated. Would you rather have a happy sibling, or a depressed one? Maybe you’d rather have a dead sibling? It’s not about you and it’s not a big deal if your sibling wants to break gender norms. >

A Trans or not, non binary or not, male, female, pre/post, none of that matters when using they/them. We have used those words for decades, “they said I’d find you here” or “when get there can you give this to them” is just a phrase that nobody in the world though about until this topic came up.
Fuck, I just use they/them for pretty much everyone because you can be whatever you want and I don’t have an opinion besides just wash your hands when you pee in whatever bathroom you choose.
B someone has asked you to call them something different. 
The fuck makes you think you need to understand at all? I go by a nickname in real life, the people I introduce myself to by that nickname have no “right” to know why. >

Non-binary person here, born female.
First and foremost, its not an attention thing. No one in my life knows I identify as non-binary because I am gender apathetic/indifferent. I do not care if people call me She/Her, He/Him, or They/Them. I only care that they get my actual name right and respect me. I don't think many people in my life will ever know I am non-binary unless it casually slips out because, again, I am largely apathetic about it all. It doesn't change anything for other people to know that I am non-binary (or, at least, I don't feel it does in my very specific life. Mileage varies from non-binary person to non-binary person).
However, knowing I am non-binary does help me. Because it helps me see that my dysphoria around womanly traits-boobs, my hips, etc-and the fact that I also do not want to be a man either physically or socially can exist in the same space. I can want some of the traits of both sexes, want to take on both social roles as I see fit, etc, etc, without having to identify as one or the other. Because I don't really feel like one or the other.
And that's the honest truth. I don't feel like a woman, I don't identify with many of the things woman typically do. But I also don't feel like a man and I don't identify with all the thjngs my friends who are men do. I exist in this nebulous area of gender identity that even I cannot quite put a finger on. I just know I don't feel like I am either of the two main options. >

Tired of seeing CMV prompts where the user is completely correct and nothing needs changing. Feels like a reverse soapbox for the comment section. >

By definition, I'm non-binary. However, that's certainly not something I identify with just because I don't align with what OTHER PEOPLE's view of masculinity is. I'm comfortable with who I am. I don't anybody's labels on me. >

It's all beyond ridiculous >

Because it doesn’t exist. >

A thing that might help you understand is that a person can be anywhere on the spectrum between man and a woman. But also these concepts are quite subjective (What one person might consider a 100% man, the most manly man to exist, someone else might consider 95%) and people draw boxes on the spectrum and everybody that falls in one box is a man and everybody in the other is a woman, but these boxes are also subjective. (It sounds like you draw the boxes so that only 50-50 is not in either, but other people might disagree where the 50-50 point in, or have drawn smaller boxes, so more range is not in either.)
So if the person themselves feel like they are not in either box (or possibly both, depending on how they draw these boxes) you could think they are presenting more one way and for you the way they express themselves might even put them firmly in one box, but you should respect them and maybe try to understand how your boxes differ. >

Gender is super confusing. Trust me i know, and it gets more and more complicated every day. Ntm that gender does not equal expression (how people act and dress). For nb it can be extra confusing if your not used to the concept, being nb just means you dont identify within the binary. The entire concept of being a boy or a girl feels wrong, like how to a transman the concept of being a girl feels wrong. Its like... Forcing someone to wear clothes that are just a tiny bit too small. To everyone else, it looks fine, the clothes fit, but to the person its awful. The collar comes up to high on the neck, the shirt wont cover their belly, it cuts into their arms and waist. Its uncomfortable, and the discomfort is different for different people. Some would just nonchelantly change clothes, while others would tear their way out cuz they just cant stand it.
Its a weird analogy but i hope it makes my point. In all reality, it doesnt matter if you fully understand it, but you should try to accept it is a thing. Because if you dont think its real, then you domt think your nibling is real and are accidentally minimizing their experience, and when youre doing that (even subconciously) you cant truely be supportive. People can feel when youre judging them, even if youre not outwardly expressing it, people can just tell. Idk how but they can.
I hope this helps a little bit. And full disclosure, i am cis so i could be very wrong. I just how my trans family and friends explaind their feelings, and it did range from "Im about to throw myself off a cliff from how much I hate this..." to "huh... Kinda dont like that changes pronouns... Thats better!" >

Is this a post about teenagers trying to figure out who they are and that being messy, tiresome, insightful, egotistical, wrong, right, weird, awkward and work-in-progress? 
If it is, then maybe you just help them figure out the difference between who they are, who they think they are and who they want to be, in a respectful, supportive way that teaches that everything has consequences, owning your shit is important, projection is a hell of a drug, and that it's ok to be confused. >

Trans is a gender, non binary is an identity. >

I personally feel like I struggle with the concept of non-binary because it is GENDER which is nonsense in the first place. 
I think the idea that most cis people identify with the gender assigned to them is false. What it means for me to “feel” like a woman has nothing to do with what might make someone else identify with the gender.
The idea of being NB doesn’t fit with me because I see gender as a spectrum. I feel like this creates an “other” when really we are all just on the same spectrum. But I think we need to go through this phase to come out the other side with a more healthy societal view that is less binary overall. >

For some, it's not that it's 50/50 male/female, it's that the whole concept of others judging you based on their perception of what they think your gender means about you. It's Gender: No thank you! or 404:Gender Not Found.
My kids go to a school that is almost entirely autistic kids, and there's a very high percentage of the kids there who feel most comfortable thinking of themselves as non binary. That doesn't mean they're all experiencing dysphoria (although many are), or that they will continue to be comfortable with that gender identity. When you have gender discomfort, it's a winding pathway sometimes, to get to the place where you are comfortable with yourself, and you are comfortable negotiating other people's perceptions.
When it comes to you deciding how you feel about someone else's gender identity, I suggest that you draw a hard line on thoughts like "doing it for attention." Even if they are, there's a reason they're drawing attention to that aspect of themselves and not another. And usually, there's a lot more going on than just trying to generate attention. It's not, like, money or something. Exactly what are they going to spend this attention on? Does it accrue interest? No, if someone wants attention, there's a reason they want it, and to some extent they should have it. Tune in, be connected, listen curiously. It costs nothing to be kind, and the kindness you show to maybe-ridiculous young people can matter so much to them. >

Women are XX
Men are XY
Some people are YY, XXX, XXY or XYY
Some people have brains that don’t match the chromosomes they were born with
Binary data can hold more than one Boolean operator.
The gender/sex spectrum is characterised as a bi-modal distribution not binary. >

Usually a non binary is a trans person too scared to transition .. Period. There maybe exceptions.
But generally.. that’s what it is. >

Good thing is, you don’t have to get it. That’s your sibling, if there is love and camaraderie then accept them as they are. >

Welp guess I don't exist, guess I'll die then ¯⁠\⁠⁠(⁠ツ⁠)⁠⁠/⁠¯ >

I’m non-binary and since I’m typing this, I exist. Hope this helps! >

If a man can say they’re a woman and visa versa, then if there really a reason they can’t claim to be anything else they want to be?  Either way I don’t think you get to draw those lines.  It’s all whoever makes the claim of what they are >

Hey!! I know you’ve already got some useful answers, but this topic is close to my heart and I thought I’d take the time to give you my perspective. :)
As a nonbinary person, I don’t necessarily feel like I’m 50/50. As others have said, it’s closer to neither. I experience social dysphoria, in the sense that being seen as my birth gender is difficult for me. I don’t exclusively use they/them pronouns, I’m fine with any pronouns, and in a perfect world, I’d want people to use a mixture of pronouns for me. Also, I feel like it’s worth mentioning that non-gendered pronouns are not an integral part of being nonbinary - you can use gendered pronouns out of convenience/other reasons and still consider yourself to be nonbinary.
That brings me to my next point. “Nonbinary” as an identity is more of an umbrella term. There’s people who don’t experience dysphoria but reject societies idea of gender. There’s people who identify with their sex, but ultimately feel like it doesn’t encompass their whole identity. There’s trans people who feel that identifying as purely the other gender doesn’t encompass their identity. And there is people who see themselves as being 50/50, as well as those who see themselves as having no gender at all. These can all be nonbinary.
My personal identity is something that I’ve struggled to explain to people for a long time. The most viable explanation I have is that it’s simply a part of myself. When I think of myself, I’m not male or female. This is the most natural way for me to view myself. To me, it’s as simple as the color of my hair. Being nonbinary is just an aspect of who I am and denying this part of my identity by “picking a side” would not be staying true to myself, and I’m sure many other nonbinary people feel the same way. While I’m proud of who I am, I don’t  view it as an obstacle I’ve had to overcome, or something I’ve had to decide - more of a realization.
It’s different than being a masculine woman or a feminine man in the sense that a masculine woman still sees themselves as a woman. They are still comfortable with their assigned gender, and purely present masculinely because it’s their personal style. Same logic goes for feminine men.
I know it can be confusing, especially if someone you’ve known for awhile has only recently came out as nonbinary, and that’s okay. You don’t have to understand entirely, I think the most important thing is just accepting that your nibling isn’t the only nonbinary person, that they are most likely not doing it for attention, and that them coming out was likely a difficult experience for them. The very best thing you can do is be supportive, which it seems like you already are, and that’s good! Trust me, if they’re out as a nonbinary person, they’re already gonna catch enough flack for their identity from other people. Just be there for them.
Hope this helps to some extent OP :) >

OP, why do you feel the need to draw a line anywhere? What difference does it make?
Also, unrelated, but people usually die on hills, not bridges! >

Hey there! Everyone has had excellent responses so far, but I'll add some cultural context a lot of people might not know. 
Throughout history, humans have defined gender very diversely. It's the nature of it being a social construct that changes to fit our needs and identities. 
For example in Ancient Greece being 'masculine' and 'feminine' was actually defined by whether or not you took the receiving or giving role during sex. Young men (So biologically male for the sake of clarity) were considered to be feminine and it was socially acceptable for them to bottom for their elders, and they would be expected to take on the more masculine role as they grew older. 
In South Asia, a third gender called 'Hijra' is recognised today and has been recorded throughout written history. They actually completely challenge the Western notions of gender and sexuality, but to try and explain it here would do injustice to the nuance and history behind it. 
Indigenous Americans use two-spirit (a modern term BTW, originally the word 'Berdache' was used to describe the third gender or genderfluid people but it was coined by colonisers, and used offensively historians and anthropologists). This too completely challenges the notion that there are two opposite ends of the spectrum and people sit in the middle. 
There are countless examples of this, including some from my own culture, the Philippines, being 'bakla'. In the modern day it's used as a synonym for the English word 'gay', but it encompasses a broader spectrum than simply homosexual men. 
I think the thing to remember is that we have lots of feelings as human beings. We all experience different things and labelling our experiences is something we do to help us process and cope with our lives. 
The distinctions between gender, and sexuality that are popular today are mainly from a Western point of view, which has strong roots in defining gender to how you present yourself to others. For example skirts are considered feminine but to many other cultures they are only worn by men.  
There aren't rules at all. At the end of the day people define themselves the way they feel is comfortable and how we feel comfortable is subjective. There isn't a clear cut definition on what being nonbinary is, that's exactly the point. Being nonbinary encompasses anyone who doesn't feel like they fit into the traditional Western roles of masculine and feminine.
Me for example, I was born biologically male. I'm fine with having a dick. I quite like having a dick. But when it comes to gender, I don't always feel like what counts as masculinity applies to me, sometimes I feel more comfortable being feminine, but I don't feel like what counts as femininity as a whole applies to me either. I don't strongly identify with any one, which is why I consider myself nonbinary. And that's just my experience. There's a multitude of other perspectives and experiences that people have, but we sorta place it all under the nonbinary umbrella so we can have an easier time understanding one another. 
Telling someone I'm nonbinary doesn't completely explain my experiences and my feelings to them. They'll never understand completely and that's okay, nobody has to. 
Telling someone I'm nonbinary just gives them a brief little look into me, and now they have information they can use to shape their interactions with me in whatever way they like.
EDIT: spelling >


I guess I still think large numbers of young people (possibly including my nibling) are "faking it".
This Pew Research poll suggests that 5% of all young people identify as trans. This represents a 500-600% increase in recent years.

TL;DR:  They're exploring their gender identity because they can, whereas our society didn't accommodate that before.
This isn't actually inconsistent at all.


Cultural norms influence people's ability to express their nature, because there is always cultural pressure to conform.  Even self-styled non-conformists conform to norms of non-conformity.


Children and adolescents are developing.  They're a work in progress.  "Faking it" is a very loaded term.  "Confused" is even a bit too loaded.


How many young girls do you know that fawn over "boy bands" where all the performers are really rather feminine, relatively speaking?  And then, as they grow, their attraction may morph into big, strong, "manly" men with beards and hair on their chest.  Or women.
Look at sexuality, for instance, were most people tend towards the far side of hetero or homo but are not actually 100% hetero or homo.  When society was mostly on the "stone deviants to death" philosophy, nobody at 90% hetero on the Kinsey scale would even tell anyone they ever considered homosexuality or possibly even admit it to themselves lest someone overhear their thoughts.  But you give that same person the means, motive (super really hot person coming on to them), and opportunity (situation where they're sure they're not going to get caught, or prison) and they may explore that other 10% of their sexuality.  Or take someone who is 99% homosexual and put them through a "gotta make babies!!" phase and they may explore that 1% heterosexuality to get the job done.
Gender is a social construct. You've heard it a million times in this debate, I'm sure.  That social construct is heavily influenced by sex via traditional cultural gender roles.  Those traditional gender roles were enforced very heavily on a binary idea of sex, which is clearly a gross over-simplification of nature.
I'm a cis-hetero male, but I have zero chase instinct and don't do the "manly" thing of making the first move on a woman.  Does that make me less of a man?  I certainly don't feel at all like a woman.  But a young person has society telling them all sorts of "a man is like this" things and many of those things will not fit them.  So rather than go on a crusade to re-define "man", they simply say, "I'm not a man."  It's entirely logical.
Finally, these young people see a legacy definition of "man" or "woman", don't feel like it fits them perfectly, and now have the opportunity to express that it doesn't fit them in a way that previous generations did not.
Yes, many of the young people identifying as trans or non-binary will "grow out of it".  That is a mix of the normal process of growing up changing their hormones and simply accepting that they fall firmly enough on one side or the other to consider that classification acceptable.
Personally, I suspect this will circle about and evolve into non-binary no longer being a thing because binary will no longer be a thing.  If it doesn't matter whether you are a man or a woman to society, then it doesn't matter if you call yourself a man or a woman.  But it's going to take many cycles of adjusting gender roles and gender identity. >

even if it is just teenagers acting out because they feel like they don't belong, what's the harm and taking a few moments to make them feel like they do belong? People are constantly going on and on about hormones but the truth is that a lot of people are on hormones for unrelated things, and that you can stop taking hormones. I've had a lot of friends transition, and a few reverse the process. Gender dysphoria is a real thing, and if you start taking hormones and start feeling like "a man" or "a woman" some people realize it's not them and de-transition. But like there's fentanyl, and an opioid crisis. who gives a fuck about whatever ppl need to feel included? >

We agree. >

Lemme try
Using neutral pronouns makes me happy and comfortable, using other pronouns doesn’t feel right to me
No real reason why, I don’t hate them, they just don’t feel right to me, like someone calling me by a wrong name over and over >

What is about she/her pronouns that don’t feel “right” to you? >

I assume you use she/her. What about he him wouldn’t feel right to you? >

Who are you asking? I don’t mind answering, I’m just not sure >

We're all about giving new names to in betweens.
A lion and a tiger, it's a liger
Donkey and a horse, it's a mule
A mandarin orange and a grapefruit, it's a tangelo
When you get into in between areas that have unique traits that are separate from the other two, they're no longer classified as simply being one part this and one part that, they make a new thing. 
Binary literally means all this or all that. Ones and zeros. But we call ones and zeros whole numbers, we call .65 a decimal, 1/4 a fraction, and √1 irrational. All those numbers fall directly between zero and one but require other classifications to describe what exactly they are.
There are literally infinite numbers between 1 and 0. >

I also struggle to understand the concept
But think about it this way : Imagine you were born in a country (let's say France), but you emigrated with your parents to another country (let's say USA) when your were young. You were raised by your parents as a French, but also grew up in America and actually embraced the culture of your adoptive country.
Dual citizens are pretty much accepted in modern society, but now imagine that society pressured you to identify with only one nationality. For this person it will be really difficult to choose one since he has pretty much a mix between two cultures (this is actually my case btw).
With gender it's a little more tricky since it's closely tied to your sex, but here is more about the way you express yourself. When you're NB you don't think you fit with the other "boys" but also not the "girls" because you don't possess the typical caractheristics of neither ( think about culture from my other exemple). >

gender is fake, bb. >

Hi! Non-binary person here :)
I don’t want to pile on, but it’s not a 50-50 thing, or even something that’s defined by clothing choice or presentation. I kind of explain it like: “Most people like to drink drinks with carbonation or without. Then there are folks who feel like a carbonated beverage every once in a while but they’re usually an uncarbonated beverage drinker, and vice versa. And some people were raised in a house where soda was NOT ALLOWED, and others had it at every opportunity and just prefer water.” Only the drink is gender and gender expression. It’s a spectrum.
And some non-binary people HATE to be gendered at all, and others (like myself) offer several pronouns. I use the pronouns I was assigned at birth due to my genitalia (she/her) and a fluid pronoun (they/them). I’m not offended by either and use them interchangeably; Some non-binary people absolutely detest using their genitals-assigned pronoun because it doesn’t fit them. It would be like if someone constantly called you the wrong name 🤷🏻‍♀️ 
As for gender dysphoria, I am also asexual, meaning I’m not interested in intercourse- I tend to think of my body as androgynous/sexless, despite the fact that others do not see it that way, which I tend to find more amusing than anything else. 
I often tried to “attribute” my gender less feelings to something- being in the military, being just muscly or thick build, whatever. Turns out that’s just who I am and who I have always been, no trigger or reason for it. 
I’m not sure why being non-binary gets a lot of push back, considering that I feel like my gender is the absolutely least important attribute I possess, but the most annoying thing about it to me is when someone tries to use grammar or another social construct to define me and how I view myself.  As someone who possesses a master’s degree in creative writing, I heard “Ohhhhhh it’s grammatically incorrect!” FREQUENTLY….Until I heard someone talk about their teacher they had, or their friend’s sibling, or their mailman and the way they would leave the newspaper out, etc. Singular they isn’t incorrect at all and we use it all the time! 
Above all else, I just say “You know, I think that person knows themselves better than I do. I’m gonna trust them when they say they are non-binary, or male, or female, etc.” >

Some Indigenous peoples in Canada have had “non-binary” in they cultures for tens of thousands of years.  Some nations don’t have any gendered language. >

This is always the argument I use when someone accepts binary trans people but not non-binary people.
Premise: intersex people exist.
Question: if an intersex person decides to embrace their status as intersex and consider themselves neither a man nor woman, is that valid?  Or do they have to pick one?
If they are not allowed to do that: why?  That seems completely absurd.  Forcing intersex people to “pick a side” is a demonstrably harmful thing and to the extent that it happens it really should not.
If they are allowed to do that: what about if someone identified the exact same way but they were not intersex?  Are they allowed to do that too?
If not: this means you are gatekeeping a gender identity behind biology which is the exact same argument as normal transphobes.
If so: that person is non-binary and you just agreed with them identifying like that. >

But you’re describing a biological condition. An intersex person could not fit into either, but the large majority of blue haired 16 year olds are biologically within the binary and still call themselves non-binary , aren’t they then appropriating intersex people? >

My argument already covers that possibility by pointing out that the argument you’re using is the same ones used by transphobic people against binary trans people.  Claiming that gender is biological and that trans people are appropriating an identity.  My argument is specifically designed for people who already reject that notion and support binary trans people, as OP does.
If I need to convince someone that trans people are valid generally, that’s a completely different argument.  One we could have if you’d like, but I’d need a new set of arguments designed to meet you where you’re at instead of where OP’s at.