>

Reminder when the Japanese cut off the head of the beast in The battle of Tsushima Strait
Russian debate tactics are so circular and silly. I’ve encountered them a few times on this very site. It’s like talking to a brick wall, pretty pointless. They don’t make anything resembling a good point but they’ll talk in circles until your brain turns to goo if you let them. >


Invading Ukraine is wrong.

But what about when you went to Iraq?

That was wrong too but what does it have to do with invading Ukraine?

But what about your war crimes in Iraq?

War crimes are wrong no matter where they're committed. 

So you admit the West is guilty of war crimes in Iraq?

We're talking about Ukraine.

But what about your war crimes in Iraq? >

It's also quite odd this stance on the west as a collective

So you admit the West is guilty of war crimes in Iraq?

France/Germany/Sweden/Norway/New Zealand: "I'm sorry when did we do this?" >

Well, in their view, all nations in the EU or NATO are basically just satellite states of the US. It's stupid, but that's how they think. >

It still kinda baffles me as to why they keep antagonizing the US. As a US citizen, if they hadn't been continually invading their neighbors I would have forgotten about them. We aren't competing for anything, they're just another country... EXCEPT, they keep stealing from their neighbors. Whats the fucking point in all this!
I asked in r/askarussian why russia would do this when it will only hurt them the most and they basically replied "false it will hurt Ukraine the most". Meanwhile I meant it would hurt Russia far more than 'the west'.
As far as I can tell, the Russian people really are all for this war and they cant see at all that they are the villians. >


It still kinda baffles me as to why they keep antagonizing the US. As a US citizen, if they hadn't been continually invading their neighbors I would have forgotten about them. We aren't competing for anything, they're just another country...

Imho in some sense this actually kinda insults/hurts them the most. As you pointed it out, they do not really compete that much with western (or rich eastern) nations. Sure, they were an important supplier of energy and resources to Europe, but aside from that, there was not a lot Russia could offer to the rest of the world in terms of trade, science or entertainment. Having been once a superpower, it must be simply unbearable for Putin and russians of his ilk to be forgotten by the international community (and especially by their archenemy America).
EDIT: You know, there is this cheese saying that you're only truly dead when no one remembers you anymore. Well, Russia was on that track while still being physically alive. Sums it up, imho >

The Soviet Union was broke & poor as HELL throughout the Cold War. What did we rich, capitalist Americans even have to fear? Some people believe propaganda, some see through it… >


What did we rich, capitalist Americans even have to fear?

The nukes? >

If they even HAD working nukes - I mean their entire populace stood in lines for days for a hunk of black bread & a chance at a pair & a half of Wrangler jeans… in retrospect I’m not sure they were ever anything to be so feared as our OWN propaganda had it during the 80s… >

You know they tested their nukes right? The Tsar Bomba test was the largest manmade explosion ever. >


Russia’s U.N. Ambassador Vassily Nebenzia accused Japan and Western countries of convening the meeting without any intention of thinking “systemically and impartially” about the rule of law.

Look at this. It's as if they're living on another planet. Crime of aggression, crime of genocide, 56,000 criminal acts charged against invaders... >

Russia seems oblivious to the fact that the outside world can hear their internal rhetoric and how contradictory it is to statements made for an international audience. >

They want to be able to a) do what they want; b) say what they want about it; and c) influence behaviour by what they choose to say about it.
If they want to annex a territory, they want to a) do it; b) not worry about being truthful about their intentions; and c) try to stall responses by other nations by confusing them with mixed signals.
If they were to say “we’re going to invade”, then they invade, and they admit they invaded because they wanted to annex territory, then the response from other nations would have been quicker and will be quicker next time, as there won’t be confusion in the populace about what those countries should commit to the problem.
They aren’t worried about looking foolish in the western press, where we expect talk to bear some relation to actions, given that’s a fundamental of democracy and re-election.
Putin doesn’t need to be re-elected, he just needs to keep certain domestic groups on his side, and playing games with other countries in their media helps him with those groups where trying to be truthful would limit his options. >

I kinda think that doesnt matter anymore. If they pull this shit again in another country the response will be even swifter. >

That’s what people thought after Georgia, and after Ukraine in 2014. Perhaps there will be a better response next time, but eventually the memory fades and the strategy works again. >

Russias only real saving grace was and is that people really don't want to go to war. They were willing to give him concessions under the impression that if they did, hs would fuck off and people could continue with their lives(aside from his victims, sadly).
At this point Putin made it clear he's both not going to stop, ever. Its also been made clearhowever that he overplayed his hand and that Russia as a country can be hurt, badly, by getting involved in this war.
The goal since this current phase of the conflict began has largely been to hurt the Russian milirary so badly it can never challenge anyone again and destabalize Russia so much it can't even THINK of trying this again for the forseeable future. >

As if Russia will listen to anyone at this point.  So long as Putin remain in power Russia will keep on adding more charges on war atrocity and crime against humanity. >

Thing is, it's not just Putin. The entire Russian government is like this. If they weren't, Putin would be dead already. Look at Navalny. That guy has more lives than a cat. Navalny is Putin's greatest competition. He's locked up and nearly dead. Putin has huge support in the government. His critics say he hasn't been brutal enough. Any replacement for Putin will have to go harder to prove they aren't weak. >

Or a replacement will have to push reform and create openness with the rest of the world to improve the quality of life for Russians, because otherwise their life will just become far, FAR worse. >

Radical nationalists are so well implemented in Russia that if, somehow, a "conciliatory" government came in power, they would probably be coup'd within weeks.
As of right now the two main factions are the pro-army (Shoigu, Gerasimov) and the pro-wagner/other nut jobs (Prighozhin but also Kadyrov and Strelkov) >

This is part of what bugs me.
Posited.  The invasion is not the work of just one man.  Russia is just completely fucked with no way back to being part of the world.
If that is true, and everyone seems to think it is, why do we allow them to continue to exist as a state? >

The answer is quite obvious: they have nukes >

The US and many other countries do, too. >

That’s why Russia allows them to exist too… >

In that case, I recommend settling this with conventional weapons >

You're oversimplifying the existence of Nuclear Weapons >

I don't see how Putin can back out and save face. He will have gained nothing for Russia. >

I don’t see how Russia can back out and save Putin. >

What's important is that this shows
 Japan is closed to Russia as a way to bypass the sanctions.
Closed with the full support of the Japanese government.
It moves Japan a step closer to being part of a world wide version of NATO. >


Japan is closed to Russia as a way to bypass the sanctions

Wasn't that always the case? Relations between the two countries has always been strained. And that's putting it lightly >

Not really. The region where Japan buys most of its Russian oil from is exempt from the oil price cap. >

Ok so tell that to the guy who says it's closed then lol. Sounds like the government has no power >

Yeah good point, I just replied to you because you asked the question >

Ok maybe I am confused though. Did they close the loophole now or does it remain open? There's such a vague discussion and you got the details lol >

Well yes that does make sense. I'm getting all my oil from Canada for the same reason >

Stfu Ruzzia. When have they ever cared about the “rule of law” lmao. Don’t urge them to do anything, tell them they’re going to continue to die in Ukraine till they collapse as a country. Than maybe they’ll understand they aren’t going to win. >

Putin is the last of the cold war bullies. >

Kissinger is still alive. >

Behind the Bastards did a great series on him.  One of the worst individuals to exist and it's cruel fate that he is still alive >

Technically living longer is a fate worse than death for the bastard. 
As he ages, he loses more of his physical abilities, eventually, he'll rely on having tubes and other stuff plugged into him just to do basic stuff like breathing and moving. And he'll feel every moment of it. His strength gradually drains till he is a husk of himself.
I do hope he is still mentally sound when he is physically wasted so he can suffer for his sins. >

Well you did make me feel a little better about the situation.  I hope it goes just as you say >

Russia will never leave Ukraine alone ever again.
People think Putin dying will be the end of it, I'm guessing it won't as the infrastructure of oppression will still be there.
Given that the KGB+oligarchs can work around the sanctions, and there's no real risk anyone will invade (because of empty nuclear threats) they have a platform to drag this out forever, and just have to wait until their mass-media control can get GOP back in control of the US so they stop funding Ukraine, and then they have won. >

I think it will go like this
Putin “has an unfortunate accident involving a window”
Russia pulls out of Ukraine
Russia holds “free and fair elections” where all but few candidates have unfortunate accidents. Someone wins unopposed.
20 years later, it’s the same guy, he’s internationally disliked, he needs a way to improve morale. Something like a quick and easy land grab war. >

If Ukraine finds a way to win this, they'll never let their guard down again. Not to mention push hard to join NATO/EU. Russia/Putin knows this too. This is their last chance before Ukraine becomes too powerful and connected to invade again. Which is also why they won't leave it alone. >

You know that person that is extremely dumb but thinks they're universes ahead everyone else?
Russia's discourse sound like that person is trying to convince everyone they have a 3 headed monkey as a pet. And they think "omg, everyone is so dumb they're gonna believe" >

That oughta do it. >

Next the UN will send them a very strong letter! >

And I’m sure it worked >

China may Warn and Slam but have you ever seen them Urge? >

Japanese historic reasons to be nervous about Russian land grabs. >

In one ear and right out the other >

I bet Russia listens to them. >

I love how anti Russia Japan is. Heck yeah Japan. >

Unless Japan is backing it up with a few Gundams and a Mazinger, I don't think Russia is gonna care. >

Sarcasm here: “We speak from experience, occupying other countries didn’t work for us in the past.”