>

Really? We have mandatory checks in Germany and the Tesla Model 3 performed worse than all EVs with enough data and worse than all ICEs except for two. Over 10% were rejected at the first inspection after 3 years. The average is 4.7%.
They did this so the long range model Y will qualify for the $7500 credit >

And the Model X weights over 6,000lbs, so it sells b/c business owners can deduct the full price.
A huge portion of Tesla's success is b/c of taxpayer funding....Elon shouldn't receive all the profits. >

Thats the whole goal of the taxpayer funded incentives: to get companies to produce electric cars when they otherwise wouldnt be profitable. Seems like its worked really well >

Seems like but isn't >

What is the goal of taxpayer funded incentives then? >

One initial goal is to help jumpstart a new technology that has high adoption barriers vs an entrenched industry. Companies will produce what they wouldn't have otherwise, leading to technological advancements and economies of scale, reducing prices. Happened with hybrids (also appliances, lighting) and it's happening with EVs. That's the part the comment above deliberately leaves out. It's sort of a chicken and egg problem initially. Companies won't invest in something not profitable in short or medium term. But without production, the technology doesn't improve so we're stuck. 
Another goal is to reward technologies that pollute less and use less fossil fuels, sort of like carbon pricing but using incentives on the cleaner technology side rather than fees. >

You just said essentially the same thing as /u/PicklePanther9000 except with more words. >

After having raised prices 20%. 
The “affordable” model 3 was supposed to be around $30-35k. It’s now priced at $48,190 to start. >

It qualifies for the new $7,500 tax credit though. $40,690 is less than the average new vehicle price. Include long term fuel and maintenance savings and it’s actually not bad. >

Lol. 40k for a new car... that's an entire year's salary for most people. >

Do you know that a new civic costs these days?
Cars are just expensive now. >

Then I guess I'm walking when my car eventually dies. >

One day I can finally get my model 3 below 35k!
Ha, I kid.
Looks like it will be a bolt or equinox. >

I am waiting for the Ford Maverick to go all EV. >

A reasonably sized EV truck would be awesome. >

Ford trademarked “Ranger Lightning” and “Maverick Lightning”.
Personally I think it will be a Ranger EV built on the new platform and a Maverick PHEV because there isn’t ability to add an EV battery without a complete redesign but there is space for a PHEV batter under the rear seats.
They also wouldn’t canibalize each others sales as much. >

PHEV would be great good too.  If it can cover day driving, and then use gas for trips and heavier loads.
/Volt Owner >

And for the “I live in the city but do a road trip to moms 800 miles away once a year and haul drywall twice a year” they can just get gas once every other month, on road trips, and while hauling people and shit in the back >

Honestly, a PHEV Maverick would be perfect for me. >

It's over. People will just buy EVs from real car companies >

The funny thing is: 
For the 43 billion Elon spent on a now languishing smart phone app, Twitter... 
Elon could have bought an entire prestigious, evolved real car company! (More than one, even, for that money.) 
For example: Honda's market cap value is less than the 43 billion Elon spent on Twitter. And sure: not that he could have actually bought Honda--I don't know about international investment regulations, though I doubt Japan would allow that to happen. 
But still: the theoretical idea that Elon could have bought Honda for cheaper than he paid for Twitter, just gives you an astonishing example of what an insanely bad, draining waste of money that investment was for him in Twitter, that could have been utilized in countless other far more obvious beneficial ways for him, and his current holdings. >

He paid three times what Twitter was worth on a good day, and put the rest of his fortune in play and jeopardy at the same time. It’s astonishing, really. >

Indeed: absolute insanity. 
If he had only A) Just shut up on Twitter, and B) Spent that 43 billion merging Tesla with a well known car brand... 
Just think of where the Tesla share price, and optimistic outlook for Tesla might be today, instead of the current debacle. At the very least, share price would absolutely be higher than it is today, that's for certain. >

Twitter doesn't make money. It's only value is pushing political propaganda. >

That’s exactly why he bought it >

or he's just an idiot. >

It’s for propaganda. The countries backing the purchase all pay for botting to influence their own elections or media. >

Elon made driving a Tesla cringe >

BMW should be paying for Elon’s drinks forever. They always got the douche driver moniker and now Tesla has taken that over. Now when I see a BMW driver I think it’s quaint. 
I got high beamed on the freeway the other day by a Tesla driver because I changed into the lane he was in. You would think I probably cut him off right? He was about 300 feet back. Was I going slow? No I was riding a 6 cylinder motorcycle that goes 0-60 in 2.6 seconds, hard to go slow on that. 
He just decided it was his lane and no one else could be in it. >

More likely the tesla was on autopilot, you were right at the edge of it's detection range, and the driver was panicking in trying to figure out how to turn the high beams off and mentally apologizing for high beaming you. The whole forced-ish auto highbeams suck, and they really hide how to turn that off. >

They don’t hide it at all. You push the left stick forward. >

You missed the auto part. >

No I didn’t. When you enable autopilot you can toggle auto high beams with the left stick. It turns them on by default, but you can turn them off.
Also, since a software update a couple months ago they have been working well, so I just leave them on now. >

wonder why that happened, said no one >

With all of the actual car companies now jumping feet first into EV's, I cant see myself buying a Tesla under any reasonable circumstances. >

I’m waiting on the Equinox. >

Are they gonna start making them repairable or nah? >

I've done a repair on my own, turned out to be real easy. I broke my charge port door mishandling it, it's not major bmor anything. >

Sorry Elon, you lost me already >

My impression is
* the first Teslas were rated the best cars ever made
* then the quality tanked
* then they became the My Pillow of automobiles
Cutting prices makes sense. >

The first Teslas, objectively, were in no way, share or form "the best cars ever made"
That's just fucking ridiculous. >

My impression is that they had good battery management, at least for a while, and initial impressions were mostly being wowed at the benefit of a high-power EV drivetrain rather than anything inherent to Tesla. It was a "first [big] mover" thing, in my view. >

I think a major part was just that Tesla was the first real electric car that wasn't an abomination, and was available to "everyone". Compared to what people were used to, they were the "Best (electric, available) car ever made (so far)". Sure, electric cars existed before, but they were incredibly rare, expensive, and had some weird things going on. That's great in the beginning, as you saw, but can fall apart quickly as soon as there's competition to compare it to. The charging network thing was also a huge step, allowing people to charge at home slowly, or have a dedicated charger for fast charging installed, along with public ones available in larger cities and such. Keep in mind, Tesla was firmly the "struggling underdog" as far as a lot of people were concerned as well, so anything they did looked much better than it would coming from a major, established company.
It's like comparing the first MP3 players to what we have now. During the time, they were literally the best you could get without actually working in the industry, despite a couple problems. After other companies caught up, and technology improved, they look a lot less amazing. >


I think a major part was just that Tesla was the first real electric car that wasn't an abomination, and was available to "everyone".

They were also the first to make an electric car that just looked like, a car. They didnt do all that weird, pseudo-futuristic styling to make it stand out; which I think especially at the time is what pushed a lot of people away from the whole category. >


They were also the first to make an electric car that just looked like, a car.

Yeah, as I mentioned many of the older ones were abominations. No one wants to drive what looks like a 12 year olds "futuristic" design. Honestly, I think whoever managed to strap batteries and a working motor to a normal looking body would have been successful, provided the price was close to normal cars. >

I once saw a guy back out of a Walgreens parking spot in a Model S. The front bumper just kissed the curb stop and the whole front paneling came clean off. One gets the feeling Teslas are made out cardboard. >

They do feel very plastic and light, but i guess you need that a bit to compensate for the fact that it is electric and would have terrible mile range with much weight.
That tesla did drive off a cliff and survive the whole family so they are tough where safety is concerned.
But now its a muskmobile.  That cringe factor is hard to get around >


but i guess you need that a bit to compensate for the fact that it is electric and would have terrible mile range with much weight.

EVs are some of the heaviest cars on the road >

From the battery i assume. So everything else has to be as light as possible >

If you're goal is to save money Just get a Toyota. My Prius Prime was was only 22k when it was only a year old. Tesla have 2018 certified preowned (older than my car) going for over 60k. >

Availability has been restricted for the Prime, new or old.
Today, you’re paying over $20k for a 5 year old Prime in good shape with over 60k miles, easy. >

Their margins are going to get destroyed. Plus, there’s a lot less demand. Everyone hates musk now. I was looking at a Tesla 8 months ago, now I wouldn’t be caught dead in one bc Musk is a fucking loser >

Most people evaluate a large purchase based on the product's merits, hence why sales remain gangbusters and will be doubly so now that prices are back to 2021 era normalcy. >

Orders have been dropping below production levels. >

That's a creative way of saying they've doubled their production capacity in the last few months. >

Not when orders are 150k lower than deliveries for the last quarter. >

Price may be lower but I will still pass purchasing Tesla as I own very reliable gas powered vehicle purchased in 2007 that I paid off long time ago, low insurance and since I'm retired I don't have to travel often. >

I’m going to drive my 2016 Crv until it dies. I love that car. Great gas mileage, paid off, and reliable. >

2013 and ditto until there is a PHEV CR-V. >

I wish someone would put out a basic EV with no frills that average people could afford. >

They've gotten some as cheap as $28k. That's brushing up against some usual new sedan prices.
Won't be a "fun" EV though. This is Bolt/Leaf territory >

The Bolt can be plenty of fun for people used to driving average compact or midsize cars. It's no sports car but it is decently quick. >

Price cuts are always welcomed but now that Tesla isn't the only electric vehicle around I don't see how much it will help. Musk losing his mind everyday and playing with the stock doesn't make me want to buy even a Tesla water bottle. >

Tesla has an advantage of you just ordering it online instead of having to go to a dealer who will try and rip you off. It also qualifies for the tax credit. I wish the Ford Lightning would drop in price so it'd meet the incentives though. >

If i could afford an EV tesla would be the last company i would purchase from >

I wish this was for a car that I actually wanted. Like an XC40 Recharge. >

The biggest problems I've seen with Teslas are the build quality and repairability. Lots of small, cosmetic (and sometimes not) issues straight from the factory: shoddy paint, gaps, issues with seat fabric, and trims. The other challenge is they are a bitch to repair. You must find a Tesla certified shop and in most cases those shops are scheduling out repairs several months due to being so backed up. And then the parts take forever to arrive, some are on constant backorder. The regular Tesla service fares a bit better but they force you to use the app and appointments can be delayed/cancelled at anytime. They might also deny service for things that appear to be clear defects because you've "driven it for 100 miles". >

Are they still using proprietary chargers and need an adapter or a 3D printed part to work with standard chargers?  
Are they still catching on fire and is self-driving mode still causing accidents? >

While I'm not an expert on the rate of car fires, the average car on the road is much older (and more fire-prone) than the average Tesla on the road, so it really isn't an even comparison to compare car fires per Tesla vs car fires per car on the road. >

For a republican Musk sure loves handouts >

Arent all car prices coming down? Given that supply chain pressures are easing? Seems like a misleading headline… >

~~Yup~~ Nope
~~New-Vehicle Average Transaction Prices Fall for First Time in Five Months After Recently Hitting Record High~~
The average price for a new vehicle was $48,681 in November – another record high – according to a KBB news release. That figure represents a 0.9% hike ($422) compared to October’s average car price. November’s average price was also 4.4% higher ($2,250) than a year before.
Fuck Tesla and all that.
Edit: Just found that my post a few minutes ago was a little dip and that the current average new vehicle cost is at a record all-time high. It's amazing how much how you phrase a search influences what you find. >

A new minivan is 50k.  F that. >

Good. They already cut quality, so a price cut seems fair. >

Lol you couldn't pay me enough to drive one of those shit boxes... >

I was next to one at a light recently, and it was the ugliest car I've seen in a while. I don't get the appeal. >

You must have Elon trolls downvoting you lol. Because those cars really are ugly as shit. You can see the cost-cutting on the outside. Elon simps don't wanna pay attention to that "BUt LoOk aT ThE TEcH InsIde!" No. I shouldn't have to open the door to see that the car is ugly and not well-made lol
Edit: Somebody dumb paid 100k+ for their Tesla and all they can do is give downvotes lolol that's fine, downvotes are free lmao >

I've always felt they were fairly plain, at least the latest model. I don't really remember what their previous... 3 or 4?... however-many models looked like.
I certainly wouldn't brag about it, but I wouldn't call it especially ugly. Just kinda... whatever lookin'.
EDIT: That cyber-truck, tho... maybe that makes the Tesla sedan look merely average in my eyes, like how Alien Resurrection makes Alien3 look a lot better in comparison. >

I've always seen them as an ugly car for something that costs so much. Maybe "plain" would be a better word, but even that doesn't fit because you can see all the shitty trim on them and how the body pieces don't quite align. I consider it an ugly car when compared to other EVs now. Even uglier with the ridiculous price tag, along with low safety and reliability ratings. 
But Elon will never live down that uglyass cybertruck lol. Especially now, when people can easily see what a Ford Lightning looks like >

It's gonna take years for Ford to produce them. >

Sure, but Ford already has 10k+ lightnings on the road. The cybertruck doesn't even have a release date. >

I wouldn't drive a Tesla if you gave it to me. >

Same. I live in Austin where there’s a Tesla factory and I see so many Teslas being driven on the road every day. Still a no from me. Even if I had the money to afford it I would be a chump for buying one. >

Tesla was the first to get to market, but they blew it. There are now so many other cheaper, better looking, and much more reliable vehicles to choose from. >

I wouldn’t own a Tesla if it was free. Elon can eat shit he’s a dick. >

Cool. If you're given one go ahead and send it my way if you don't mind. Fuck Elon, but never having to change my oil and antifreeze ever again is a solid win. EVs are practically maintenance free and make more sense than ever buying ICE again. >

Really? We have mandatory checks in Germany and the Tesla Model 3 performed worse than all EVs with enough data and worse than all ICEs except for two. Over 10% were rejected at the first inspection after 3 years. The average is 4.7%. >

They were failing due to tread wear, it's not the huge deal you're making it to be.  EVs go through tires faster, fast EVs are worse. >

Ain't no price low enough to buy from a Q-Anon. >

First one to really fix the battery distance issue and get more charting stations for all to
Use is gonna win the race. >

So, based on current progress, that's Tesla. >

I’m still a no, thanks though >

"Cancel culture has destroyed an American automaker?" /s
Zzzzzzzz.lost me >

Makes sense.  The price of lumber is going down which makes producing Teslas cheaper.  Musk is just passing the cost savings to the consumer. >

Lol! Absolutely bonkers for a large automaker. >

Cool. I still will never buy a product from a Nazi. >

Doesn’t matter. I’m not giving my paycheck to a guy who now thinks it’s fun to bait the left for giggles… know your market moron
Edit: oh a musk bro took offense! I’m not wrong, this idiot is attacking the left on Twitter daily as though conservatives are buying electric vehicles — I just can’t… lol- enjoy your sliding share values dummies >

Unless you are handing it to me for free the answer is no. Not spending a cent that may end up in Elmo's pocket. >

Dont you still have to pay a subscription for something or is that gone? >

There's premium connectivity ($10/month) which gives you live traffic data, Spotify/CarPlay integration, LTE web browsing, and other perks. That's super common among car manufacturers and is optional.
There's also a Full Self Driving (FSD) subscription which is $199/month and also optional.
There was never a mandatory subscription for anything. >

I ended my lease a year early. Cost me $500 but it was worth getting rid of that lemon >

Meh. I’ll wait for another company to make one that isn’t shaped like an electric shaver with underwhelming features. >

Twitter says its a steal! Follow #elonSaves .... 
/s
(oh, if I EVER get an EV, its not gonna be a Tesla product...) >

Genius I say, the man is a genius among men. /s >

When an MMO does this it's time to jump ship.  Tesla will be free to play soon. >

I wonder if Elon is smart enough to figure out trashing on liberals and alienating your primary customer base was a dumb idea. >

Instead of cutting prices, make cars that do not kill people and pay Tesla's manufacturing workers according to UWA wages.
Also, don't piss off people who can afford to purchase your product on Twitter >

Jesus, even after these price cuts these things are so expensive versus the competition. >

It makes no sense to lower the price on a vehicle you cant produce fast enough unless you're looking to book deposits because you're in a cash and liquidity crisis. >

now you can die in a fire cheaper >

Tesla has the lion's share of the EV market and will have an even greater piece after the price cut.  They dominate the European market, too. No EV manufacturer in the world is in a position to threaten their hegemony for the foreseeable future. >

Lol. Their quality issues won't improve. Toyota and Honda and Kia and GM will own this space in a few years. >

Toyota is a total lost cause and Honda is making only a token effort to compete.  GM's products only sell in the USA and there's a reason for that.  They haven't made a good car in ages.  Their trucks are better.  Tesla's real competition is Hyundai and Kia.  
Quality control for EVs improves year-by-year.  It's a new technology and kinks are natural with the growth process. >

For sure right now Hyundai and Kia are competitors to Tesla. I expect changes very soon.
Tesla will improve QC slower than real car companies. >

And most people still can’t afford these pieces of garbage. >

The insecurity in this thread is wild
Insecure redditors downvoting me: “yeah, that’ll show him” lol >

I know a major issue with Tesla is the stagnation of designs, so maybe this is hinting at a revamp in the near future?
Regardless, not gonna complain about cheaper electric cars. >

didn't they just increase prices not long ago when a tax credit expired for them? >

Elon is trying to make back some of his money >

I’m CRAZY Elon and you won’t believe these deals!!! >

Ooh, discounted prices on badly made cars! What an incentive. >

Tesla is the Camry of electric cars now. >

How dare you disparage the Camry name. Teslas are more in line with 1990s Kia, or a Ford pinto.
The Camry is on whole different tier with decent maintenance I’ve seen them get close to 300k miles. Regularly see late 90s Camrys on the road to this day. >

Won’t buy a Tesla even if it’s cheaper that a civic. Quality control is almost non existent at Tesla. VW and KIA build higher quality electric cars. >

They did this so the long range model Y will qualify for the $7500 credit >

And the Model X weights over 6,000lbs, so it sells b/c business owners can deduct the full price.
A huge portion of Tesla's success is b/c of taxpayer funding....Elon shouldn't receive all the profits. >

Thats the whole goal of the taxpayer funded incentives: to get companies to produce electric cars when they otherwise wouldnt be profitable. Seems like its worked really well >

Seems like but isn't >

What is the goal of taxpayer funded incentives then? >

One initial goal is to help jumpstart a new technology that has high adoption barriers vs an entrenched industry. Companies will produce what they wouldn't have otherwise, leading to technological advancements and economies of scale, reducing prices. Happened with hybrids (also appliances, lighting) and it's happening with EVs. That's the part the comment above deliberately leaves out. It's sort of a chicken and egg problem initially. Companies won't invest in something not profitable in short or medium term. But without production, the technology doesn't improve so we're stuck. 
Another goal is to reward technologies that pollute less and use less fossil fuels, sort of like carbon pricing but using incentives on the cleaner technology side rather than fees. >

You just said essentially the same thing as /u/PicklePanther9000 except with more words. >

After having raised prices 20%. 
The “affordable” model 3 was supposed to be around $30-35k. It’s now priced at $48,190 to start. >

It qualifies for the new $7,500 tax credit though. $40,690 is less than the average new vehicle price. Include long term fuel and maintenance savings and it’s actually not bad. >

Lol. 40k for a new car... that's an entire year's salary for most people. >

Do you know that a new civic costs these days?
Cars are just expensive now. >

Then I guess I'm walking when my car eventually dies. >

One day I can finally get my model 3 below 35k!
Ha, I kid.
Looks like it will be a bolt or equinox. >

I am waiting for the Ford Maverick to go all EV. >

A reasonably sized EV truck would be awesome. >

Ford trademarked “Ranger Lightning” and “Maverick Lightning”.
Personally I think it will be a Ranger EV built on the new platform and a Maverick PHEV because there isn’t ability to add an EV battery without a complete redesign but there is space for a PHEV batter under the rear seats.
They also wouldn’t canibalize each others sales as much. >

PHEV would be great good too.  If it can cover day driving, and then use gas for trips and heavier loads.
/Volt Owner >

And for the “I live in the city but do a road trip to moms 800 miles away once a year and haul drywall twice a year” they can just get gas once every other month, on road trips, and while hauling people and shit in the back >

Honestly, a PHEV Maverick would be perfect for me. >

It's over. People will just buy EVs from real car companies >

The funny thing is: 
For the 43 billion Elon spent on a now languishing smart phone app, Twitter... 
Elon could have bought an entire prestigious, evolved real car company! (More than one, even, for that money.) 
For example: Honda's market cap value is less than the 43 billion Elon spent on Twitter. And sure: not that he could have actually bought Honda--I don't know about international investment regulations, though I doubt Japan would allow that to happen. 
But still: the theoretical idea that Elon could have bought Honda for cheaper than he paid for Twitter, just gives you an astonishing example of what an insanely bad, draining waste of money that investment was for him in Twitter, that could have been utilized in countless other far more obvious beneficial ways for him, and his current holdings. >

He paid three times what Twitter was worth on a good day, and put the rest of his fortune in play and jeopardy at the same time. It’s astonishing, really. >

Indeed: absolute insanity. 
If he had only A) Just shut up on Twitter, and B) Spent that 43 billion merging Tesla with a well known car brand... 
Just think of where the Tesla share price, and optimistic outlook for Tesla might be today, instead of the current debacle. At the very least, share price would absolutely be higher than it is today, that's for certain. >

Twitter doesn't make money. It's only value is pushing political propaganda. >

That’s exactly why he bought it >

or he's just an idiot. >

It’s for propaganda. The countries backing the purchase all pay for botting to influence their own elections or media. >

Elon made driving a Tesla cringe >

BMW should be paying for Elon’s drinks forever. They always got the douche driver moniker and now Tesla has taken that over. Now when I see a BMW driver I think it’s quaint. 
I got high beamed on the freeway the other day by a Tesla driver because I changed into the lane he was in. You would think I probably cut him off right? He was about 300 feet back. Was I going slow? No I was riding a 6 cylinder motorcycle that goes 0-60 in 2.6 seconds, hard to go slow on that. 
He just decided it was his lane and no one else could be in it. >

More likely the tesla was on autopilot, you were right at the edge of it's detection range, and the driver was panicking in trying to figure out how to turn the high beams off and mentally apologizing for high beaming you. The whole forced-ish auto highbeams suck, and they really hide how to turn that off. >

They don’t hide it at all. You push the left stick forward. >

You missed the auto part. >

No I didn’t. When you enable autopilot you can toggle auto high beams with the left stick. It turns them on by default, but you can turn them off.
Also, since a software update a couple months ago they have been working well, so I just leave them on now. >

wonder why that happened, said no one >

With all of the actual car companies now jumping feet first into EV's, I cant see myself buying a Tesla under any reasonable circumstances. >

I’m waiting on the Equinox. >

Are they gonna start making them repairable or nah? >

I've done a repair on my own, turned out to be real easy. I broke my charge port door mishandling it, it's not major bmor anything. >

Sorry Elon, you lost me already >

My impression is
* the first Teslas were rated the best cars ever made
* then the quality tanked
* then they became the My Pillow of automobiles
Cutting prices makes sense. >

The first Teslas, objectively, were in no way, share or form "the best cars ever made"
That's just fucking ridiculous. >

My impression is that they had good battery management, at least for a while, and initial impressions were mostly being wowed at the benefit of a high-power EV drivetrain rather than anything inherent to Tesla. It was a "first [big] mover" thing, in my view. >

I think a major part was just that Tesla was the first real electric car that wasn't an abomination, and was available to "everyone". Compared to what people were used to, they were the "Best (electric, available) car ever made (so far)". Sure, electric cars existed before, but they were incredibly rare, expensive, and had some weird things going on. That's great in the beginning, as you saw, but can fall apart quickly as soon as there's competition to compare it to. The charging network thing was also a huge step, allowing people to charge at home slowly, or have a dedicated charger for fast charging installed, along with public ones available in larger cities and such. Keep in mind, Tesla was firmly the "struggling underdog" as far as a lot of people were concerned as well, so anything they did looked much better than it would coming from a major, established company.
It's like comparing the first MP3 players to what we have now. During the time, they were literally the best you could get without actually working in the industry, despite a couple problems. After other companies caught up, and technology improved, they look a lot less amazing. >


I think a major part was just that Tesla was the first real electric car that wasn't an abomination, and was available to "everyone".

They were also the first to make an electric car that just looked like, a car. They didnt do all that weird, pseudo-futuristic styling to make it stand out; which I think especially at the time is what pushed a lot of people away from the whole category. >


They were also the first to make an electric car that just looked like, a car.

Yeah, as I mentioned many of the older ones were abominations. No one wants to drive what looks like a 12 year olds "futuristic" design. Honestly, I think whoever managed to strap batteries and a working motor to a normal looking body would have been successful, provided the price was close to normal cars. >

I once saw a guy back out of a Walgreens parking spot in a Model S. The front bumper just kissed the curb stop and the whole front paneling came clean off. One gets the feeling Teslas are made out cardboard. >

They do feel very plastic and light, but i guess you need that a bit to compensate for the fact that it is electric and would have terrible mile range with much weight.
That tesla did drive off a cliff and survive the whole family so they are tough where safety is concerned.
But now its a muskmobile.  That cringe factor is hard to get around >


but i guess you need that a bit to compensate for the fact that it is electric and would have terrible mile range with much weight.

EVs are some of the heaviest cars on the road >

From the battery i assume. So everything else has to be as light as possible >

If you're goal is to save money Just get a Toyota. My Prius Prime was was only 22k when it was only a year old. Tesla have 2018 certified preowned (older than my car) going for over 60k. >

Availability has been restricted for the Prime, new or old.
Today, you’re paying over $20k for a 5 year old Prime in good shape with over 60k miles, easy. >

Their margins are going to get destroyed. Plus, there’s a lot less demand. Everyone hates musk now. I was looking at a Tesla 8 months ago, now I wouldn’t be caught dead in one bc Musk is a fucking loser >

Most people evaluate a large purchase based on the product's merits, hence why sales remain gangbusters and will be doubly so now that prices are back to 2021 era normalcy. >

Orders have been dropping below production levels. >

That's a creative way of saying they've doubled their production capacity in the last few months. >

Not when orders are 150k lower than deliveries for the last quarter. >

Price may be lower but I will still pass purchasing Tesla as I own very reliable gas powered vehicle purchased in 2007 that I paid off long time ago, low insurance and since I'm retired I don't have to travel often. >

I’m going to drive my 2016 Crv until it dies. I love that car. Great gas mileage, paid off, and reliable. >

2013 and ditto until there is a PHEV CR-V. >

I wish someone would put out a basic EV with no frills that average people could afford. >

They've gotten some as cheap as $28k. That's brushing up against some usual new sedan prices.
Won't be a "fun" EV though. This is Bolt/Leaf territory >

The Bolt can be plenty of fun for people used to driving average compact or midsize cars. It's no sports car but it is decently quick. >

Price cuts are always welcomed but now that Tesla isn't the only electric vehicle around I don't see how much it will help. Musk losing his mind everyday and playing with the stock doesn't make me want to buy even a Tesla water bottle. >

Tesla has an advantage of you just ordering it online instead of having to go to a dealer who will try and rip you off. It also qualifies for the tax credit. I wish the Ford Lightning would drop in price so it'd meet the incentives though. >

If i could afford an EV tesla would be the last company i would purchase from >

I wish this was for a car that I actually wanted. Like an XC40 Recharge. >

The biggest problems I've seen with Teslas are the build quality and repairability. Lots of small, cosmetic (and sometimes not) issues straight from the factory: shoddy paint, gaps, issues with seat fabric, and trims. The other challenge is they are a bitch to repair. You must find a Tesla certified shop and in most cases those shops are scheduling out repairs several months due to being so backed up. And then the parts take forever to arrive, some are on constant backorder. The regular Tesla service fares a bit better but they force you to use the app and appointments can be delayed/cancelled at anytime. They might also deny service for things that appear to be clear defects because you've "driven it for 100 miles". >

Are they still using proprietary chargers and need an adapter or a 3D printed part to work with standard chargers?  
Are they still catching on fire and is self-driving mode still causing accidents? >

While I'm not an expert on the rate of car fires, the average car on the road is much older (and more fire-prone) than the average Tesla on the road, so it really isn't an even comparison to compare car fires per Tesla vs car fires per car on the road. >

For a republican Musk sure loves handouts >

Arent all car prices coming down? Given that supply chain pressures are easing? Seems like a misleading headline… >

~~Yup~~ Nope
~~New-Vehicle Average Transaction Prices Fall for First Time in Five Months After Recently Hitting Record High~~
The average price for a new vehicle was $48,681 in November – another record high – according to a KBB news release. That figure represents a 0.9% hike ($422) compared to October’s average car price. November’s average price was also 4.4% higher ($2,250) than a year before.
Fuck Tesla and all that.
Edit: Just found that my post a few minutes ago was a little dip and that the current average new vehicle cost is at a record all-time high. It's amazing how much how you phrase a search influences what you find. >

A new minivan is 50k.  F that. >

Good. They already cut quality, so a price cut seems fair. >

Lol you couldn't pay me enough to drive one of those shit boxes... >

I was next to one at a light recently, and it was the ugliest car I've seen in a while. I don't get the appeal. >

You must have Elon trolls downvoting you lol. Because those cars really are ugly as shit. You can see the cost-cutting on the outside. Elon simps don't wanna pay attention to that "BUt LoOk aT ThE TEcH InsIde!" No. I shouldn't have to open the door to see that the car is ugly and not well-made lol
Edit: Somebody dumb paid 100k+ for their Tesla and all they can do is give downvotes lolol that's fine, downvotes are free lmao >

I've always felt they were fairly plain, at least the latest model. I don't really remember what their previous... 3 or 4?... however-many models looked like.
I certainly wouldn't brag about it, but I wouldn't call it especially ugly. Just kinda... whatever lookin'.
EDIT: That cyber-truck, tho... maybe that makes the Tesla sedan look merely average in my eyes, like how Alien Resurrection makes Alien3 look a lot better in comparison. >

I've always seen them as an ugly car for something that costs so much. Maybe "plain" would be a better word, but even that doesn't fit because you can see all the shitty trim on them and how the body pieces don't quite align. I consider it an ugly car when compared to other EVs now. Even uglier with the ridiculous price tag, along with low safety and reliability ratings. 
But Elon will never live down that uglyass cybertruck lol. Especially now, when people can easily see what a Ford Lightning looks like >

It's gonna take years for Ford to produce them. >

Sure, but Ford already has 10k+ lightnings on the road. The cybertruck doesn't even have a release date. >

I wouldn't drive a Tesla if you gave it to me. >

Same. I live in Austin where there’s a Tesla factory and I see so many Teslas being driven on the road every day. Still a no from me. Even if I had the money to afford it I would be a chump for buying one. >

Tesla was the first to get to market, but they blew it. There are now so many other cheaper, better looking, and much more reliable vehicles to choose from. >

I wouldn’t own a Tesla if it was free. Elon can eat shit he’s a dick. >

Cool. If you're given one go ahead and send it my way if you don't mind. Fuck Elon, but never having to change my oil and antifreeze ever again is a solid win. EVs are practically maintenance free and make more sense than ever buying ICE again. >

Really? We have mandatory checks in Germany and the Tesla Model 3 performed worse than all EVs with enough data and worse than all ICEs except for two. Over 10% were rejected at the first inspection after 3 years. The average is 4.7%. >

They were failing due to tread wear, it's not the huge deal you're making it to be.  EVs go through tires faster, fast EVs are worse. >

Ain't no price low enough to buy from a Q-Anon. >

First one to really fix the battery distance issue and get more charting stations for all to
Use is gonna win the race. >

So, based on current progress, that's Tesla. >

I’m still a no, thanks though >

"Cancel culture has destroyed an American automaker?" /s
Zzzzzzzz.lost me >

Makes sense.  The price of lumber is going down which makes producing Teslas cheaper.  Musk is just passing the cost savings to the consumer. >

Lol! Absolutely bonkers for a large automaker. >

Cool. I still will never buy a product from a Nazi. >

Doesn’t matter. I’m not giving my paycheck to a guy who now thinks it’s fun to bait the left for giggles… know your market moron
Edit: oh a musk bro took offense! I’m not wrong, this idiot is attacking the left on Twitter daily as though conservatives are buying electric vehicles — I just can’t… lol- enjoy your sliding share values dummies >

Unless you are handing it to me for free the answer is no. Not spending a cent that may end up in Elmo's pocket. >

Dont you still have to pay a subscription for something or is that gone? >

There's premium connectivity ($10/month) which gives you live traffic data, Spotify/CarPlay integration, LTE web browsing, and other perks. That's super common among car manufacturers and is optional.
There's also a Full Self Driving (FSD) subscription which is $199/month and also optional.
There was never a mandatory subscription for anything. >

I ended my lease a year early. Cost me $500 but it was worth getting rid of that lemon >

Meh. I’ll wait for another company to make one that isn’t shaped like an electric shaver with underwhelming features. >

Twitter says its a steal! Follow #elonSaves .... 
/s
(oh, if I EVER get an EV, its not gonna be a Tesla product...) >

Genius I say, the man is a genius among men. /s >

When an MMO does this it's time to jump ship.  Tesla will be free to play soon. >

I wonder if Elon is smart enough to figure out trashing on liberals and alienating your primary customer base was a dumb idea. >

Instead of cutting prices, make cars that do not kill people and pay Tesla's manufacturing workers according to UWA wages.
Also, don't piss off people who can afford to purchase your product on Twitter >

Jesus, even after these price cuts these things are so expensive versus the competition. >

It makes no sense to lower the price on a vehicle you cant produce fast enough unless you're looking to book deposits because you're in a cash and liquidity crisis. >

now you can die in a fire cheaper >

Tesla has the lion's share of the EV market and will have an even greater piece after the price cut.  They dominate the European market, too. No EV manufacturer in the world is in a position to threaten their hegemony for the foreseeable future. >

Lol. Their quality issues won't improve. Toyota and Honda and Kia and GM will own this space in a few years. >

Toyota is a total lost cause and Honda is making only a token effort to compete.  GM's products only sell in the USA and there's a reason for that.  They haven't made a good car in ages.  Their trucks are better.  Tesla's real competition is Hyundai and Kia.  
Quality control for EVs improves year-by-year.  It's a new technology and kinks are natural with the growth process. >

For sure right now Hyundai and Kia are competitors to Tesla. I expect changes very soon.
Tesla will improve QC slower than real car companies. >

And most people still can’t afford these pieces of garbage. >

The insecurity in this thread is wild
Insecure redditors downvoting me: “yeah, that’ll show him” lol >

I know a major issue with Tesla is the stagnation of designs, so maybe this is hinting at a revamp in the near future?
Regardless, not gonna complain about cheaper electric cars. >

didn't they just increase prices not long ago when a tax credit expired for them? >

Elon is trying to make back some of his money >

I’m CRAZY Elon and you won’t believe these deals!!! >

Ooh, discounted prices on badly made cars! What an incentive. >

Tesla is the Camry of electric cars now. >

How dare you disparage the Camry name. Teslas are more in line with 1990s Kia, or a Ford pinto.
The Camry is on whole different tier with decent maintenance I’ve seen them get close to 300k miles. Regularly see late 90s Camrys on the road to this day. >

They did this so the long range model Y will qualify for the $7500 credit >

And the Model X weights over 6,000lbs, so it sells b/c business owners can deduct the full price.
A huge portion of Tesla's success is b/c of taxpayer funding....Elon shouldn't receive all the profits. >

Thats the whole goal of the taxpayer funded incentives: to get companies to produce electric cars when they otherwise wouldnt be profitable. Seems like its worked really well >

Seems like but isn't >

What is the goal of taxpayer funded incentives then? >

One initial goal is to help jumpstart a new technology that has high adoption barriers vs an entrenched industry. Companies will produce what they wouldn't have otherwise, leading to technological advancements and economies of scale, reducing prices. Happened with hybrids (also appliances, lighting) and it's happening with EVs. That's the part the comment above deliberately leaves out. It's sort of a chicken and egg problem initially. Companies won't invest in something not profitable in short or medium term. But without production, the technology doesn't improve so we're stuck. 
Another goal is to reward technologies that pollute less and use less fossil fuels, sort of like carbon pricing but using incentives on the cleaner technology side rather than fees. >

You just said essentially the same thing as /u/PicklePanther9000 except with more words. >

After having raised prices 20%. 
The “affordable” model 3 was supposed to be around $30-35k. It’s now priced at $48,190 to start. >

It qualifies for the new $7,500 tax credit though. $40,690 is less than the average new vehicle price. Include long term fuel and maintenance savings and it’s actually not bad. >

Lol. 40k for a new car... that's an entire year's salary for most people. >

Do you know that a new civic costs these days?
Cars are just expensive now. >

Then I guess I'm walking when my car eventually dies. >

One day I can finally get my model 3 below 35k!
Ha, I kid.
Looks like it will be a bolt or equinox. >

I am waiting for the Ford Maverick to go all EV. >

A reasonably sized EV truck would be awesome. >

Ford trademarked “Ranger Lightning” and “Maverick Lightning”.
Personally I think it will be a Ranger EV built on the new platform and a Maverick PHEV because there isn’t ability to add an EV battery without a complete redesign but there is space for a PHEV batter under the rear seats.
They also wouldn’t canibalize each others sales as much. >

PHEV would be great good too.  If it can cover day driving, and then use gas for trips and heavier loads.
/Volt Owner >

And for the “I live in the city but do a road trip to moms 800 miles away once a year and haul drywall twice a year” they can just get gas once every other month, on road trips, and while hauling people and shit in the back >

Honestly, a PHEV Maverick would be perfect for me. >

It's over. People will just buy EVs from real car companies >

The funny thing is: 
For the 43 billion Elon spent on a now languishing smart phone app, Twitter... 
Elon could have bought an entire prestigious, evolved real car company! (More than one, even, for that money.) 
For example: Honda's market cap value is less than the 43 billion Elon spent on Twitter. And sure: not that he could have actually bought Honda--I don't know about international investment regulations, though I doubt Japan would allow that to happen. 
But still: the theoretical idea that Elon could have bought Honda for cheaper than he paid for Twitter, just gives you an astonishing example of what an insanely bad, draining waste of money that investment was for him in Twitter, that could have been utilized in countless other far more obvious beneficial ways for him, and his current holdings. >

He paid three times what Twitter was worth on a good day, and put the rest of his fortune in play and jeopardy at the same time. It’s astonishing, really. >

Indeed: absolute insanity. 
If he had only A) Just shut up on Twitter, and B) Spent that 43 billion merging Tesla with a well known car brand... 
Just think of where the Tesla share price, and optimistic outlook for Tesla might be today, instead of the current debacle. At the very least, share price would absolutely be higher than it is today, that's for certain. >

Twitter doesn't make money. It's only value is pushing political propaganda. >

That’s exactly why he bought it >

or he's just an idiot. >

It’s for propaganda. The countries backing the purchase all pay for botting to influence their own elections or media. >

Elon made driving a Tesla cringe >

BMW should be paying for Elon’s drinks forever. They always got the douche driver moniker and now Tesla has taken that over. Now when I see a BMW driver I think it’s quaint. 
I got high beamed on the freeway the other day by a Tesla driver because I changed into the lane he was in. You would think I probably cut him off right? He was about 300 feet back. Was I going slow? No I was riding a 6 cylinder motorcycle that goes 0-60 in 2.6 seconds, hard to go slow on that. 
He just decided it was his lane and no one else could be in it. >

More likely the tesla was on autopilot, you were right at the edge of it's detection range, and the driver was panicking in trying to figure out how to turn the high beams off and mentally apologizing for high beaming you. The whole forced-ish auto highbeams suck, and they really hide how to turn that off. >

They don’t hide it at all. You push the left stick forward. >

You missed the auto part. >

No I didn’t. When you enable autopilot you can toggle auto high beams with the left stick. It turns them on by default, but you can turn them off.
Also, since a software update a couple months ago they have been working well, so I just leave them on now. >

wonder why that happened, said no one >

With all of the actual car companies now jumping feet first into EV's, I cant see myself buying a Tesla under any reasonable circumstances. >

I’m waiting on the Equinox. >

Are they gonna start making them repairable or nah? >

I've done a repair on my own, turned out to be real easy. I broke my charge port door mishandling it, it's not major bmor anything. >

Sorry Elon, you lost me already >

My impression is
* the first Teslas were rated the best cars ever made
* then the quality tanked
* then they became the My Pillow of automobiles
Cutting prices makes sense. >

The first Teslas, objectively, were in no way, share or form "the best cars ever made"
That's just fucking ridiculous. >

My impression is that they had good battery management, at least for a while, and initial impressions were mostly being wowed at the benefit of a high-power EV drivetrain rather than anything inherent to Tesla. It was a "first [big] mover" thing, in my view. >

I think a major part was just that Tesla was the first real electric car that wasn't an abomination, and was available to "everyone". Compared to what people were used to, they were the "Best (electric, available) car ever made (so far)". Sure, electric cars existed before, but they were incredibly rare, expensive, and had some weird things going on. That's great in the beginning, as you saw, but can fall apart quickly as soon as there's competition to compare it to. The charging network thing was also a huge step, allowing people to charge at home slowly, or have a dedicated charger for fast charging installed, along with public ones available in larger cities and such. Keep in mind, Tesla was firmly the "struggling underdog" as far as a lot of people were concerned as well, so anything they did looked much better than it would coming from a major, established company.
It's like comparing the first MP3 players to what we have now. During the time, they were literally the best you could get without actually working in the industry, despite a couple problems. After other companies caught up, and technology improved, they look a lot less amazing. >


I think a major part was just that Tesla was the first real electric car that wasn't an abomination, and was available to "everyone".

They were also the first to make an electric car that just looked like, a car. They didnt do all that weird, pseudo-futuristic styling to make it stand out; which I think especially at the time is what pushed a lot of people away from the whole category. >


They were also the first to make an electric car that just looked like, a car.

Yeah, as I mentioned many of the older ones were abominations. No one wants to drive what looks like a 12 year olds "futuristic" design. Honestly, I think whoever managed to strap batteries and a working motor to a normal looking body would have been successful, provided the price was close to normal cars. >

I once saw a guy back out of a Walgreens parking spot in a Model S. The front bumper just kissed the curb stop and the whole front paneling came clean off. One gets the feeling Teslas are made out cardboard. >

They do feel very plastic and light, but i guess you need that a bit to compensate for the fact that it is electric and would have terrible mile range with much weight.
That tesla did drive off a cliff and survive the whole family so they are tough where safety is concerned.
But now its a muskmobile.  That cringe factor is hard to get around >


but i guess you need that a bit to compensate for the fact that it is electric and would have terrible mile range with much weight.

EVs are some of the heaviest cars on the road >

From the battery i assume. So everything else has to be as light as possible >

If you're goal is to save money Just get a Toyota. My Prius Prime was was only 22k when it was only a year old. Tesla have 2018 certified preowned (older than my car) going for over 60k. >

Availability has been restricted for the Prime, new or old.
Today, you’re paying over $20k for a 5 year old Prime in good shape with over 60k miles, easy. >

Their margins are going to get destroyed. Plus, there’s a lot less demand. Everyone hates musk now. I was looking at a Tesla 8 months ago, now I wouldn’t be caught dead in one bc Musk is a fucking loser >

Most people evaluate a large purchase based on the product's merits, hence why sales remain gangbusters and will be doubly so now that prices are back to 2021 era normalcy. >

Orders have been dropping below production levels. >

That's a creative way of saying they've doubled their production capacity in the last few months. >

Not when orders are 150k lower than deliveries for the last quarter. >

Price may be lower but I will still pass purchasing Tesla as I own very reliable gas powered vehicle purchased in 2007 that I paid off long time ago, low insurance and since I'm retired I don't have to travel often. >

I’m going to drive my 2016 Crv until it dies. I love that car. Great gas mileage, paid off, and reliable. >

2013 and ditto until there is a PHEV CR-V. >

I wish someone would put out a basic EV with no frills that average people could afford. >

They've gotten some as cheap as $28k. That's brushing up against some usual new sedan prices.
Won't be a "fun" EV though. This is Bolt/Leaf territory >

The Bolt can be plenty of fun for people used to driving average compact or midsize cars. It's no sports car but it is decently quick. >

Price cuts are always welcomed but now that Tesla isn't the only electric vehicle around I don't see how much it will help. Musk losing his mind everyday and playing with the stock doesn't make me want to buy even a Tesla water bottle. >

Tesla has an advantage of you just ordering it online instead of having to go to a dealer who will try and rip you off. It also qualifies for the tax credit. I wish the Ford Lightning would drop in price so it'd meet the incentives though. >

If i could afford an EV tesla would be the last company i would purchase from >

I wish this was for a car that I actually wanted. Like an XC40 Recharge. >

The biggest problems I've seen with Teslas are the build quality and repairability. Lots of small, cosmetic (and sometimes not) issues straight from the factory: shoddy paint, gaps, issues with seat fabric, and trims. The other challenge is they are a bitch to repair. You must find a Tesla certified shop and in most cases those shops are scheduling out repairs several months due to being so backed up. And then the parts take forever to arrive, some are on constant backorder. The regular Tesla service fares a bit better but they force you to use the app and appointments can be delayed/cancelled at anytime. They might also deny service for things that appear to be clear defects because you've "driven it for 100 miles". >

Are they still using proprietary chargers and need an adapter or a 3D printed part to work with standard chargers?  
Are they still catching on fire and is self-driving mode still causing accidents? >

While I'm not an expert on the rate of car fires, the average car on the road is much older (and more fire-prone) than the average Tesla on the road, so it really isn't an even comparison to compare car fires per Tesla vs car fires per car on the road. >

For a republican Musk sure loves handouts >

Arent all car prices coming down? Given that supply chain pressures are easing? Seems like a misleading headline… >

~~Yup~~ Nope
~~New-Vehicle Average Transaction Prices Fall for First Time in Five Months After Recently Hitting Record High~~
The average price for a new vehicle was $48,681 in November – another record high – according to a KBB news release. That figure represents a 0.9% hike ($422) compared to October’s average car price. November’s average price was also 4.4% higher ($2,250) than a year before.
Fuck Tesla and all that.
Edit: Just found that my post a few minutes ago was a little dip and that the current average new vehicle cost is at a record all-time high. It's amazing how much how you phrase a search influences what you find. >

A new minivan is 50k.  F that. >

Good. They already cut quality, so a price cut seems fair. >

Lol you couldn't pay me enough to drive one of those shit boxes... >

I was next to one at a light recently, and it was the ugliest car I've seen in a while. I don't get the appeal. >

You must have Elon trolls downvoting you lol. Because those cars really are ugly as shit. You can see the cost-cutting on the outside. Elon simps don't wanna pay attention to that "BUt LoOk aT ThE TEcH InsIde!" No. I shouldn't have to open the door to see that the car is ugly and not well-made lol
Edit: Somebody dumb paid 100k+ for their Tesla and all they can do is give downvotes lolol that's fine, downvotes are free lmao >

I've always felt they were fairly plain, at least the latest model. I don't really remember what their previous... 3 or 4?... however-many models looked like.
I certainly wouldn't brag about it, but I wouldn't call it especially ugly. Just kinda... whatever lookin'.
EDIT: That cyber-truck, tho... maybe that makes the Tesla sedan look merely average in my eyes, like how Alien Resurrection makes Alien3 look a lot better in comparison. >

I've always seen them as an ugly car for something that costs so much. Maybe "plain" would be a better word, but even that doesn't fit because you can see all the shitty trim on them and how the body pieces don't quite align. I consider it an ugly car when compared to other EVs now. Even uglier with the ridiculous price tag, along with low safety and reliability ratings. 
But Elon will never live down that uglyass cybertruck lol. Especially now, when people can easily see what a Ford Lightning looks like >

It's gonna take years for Ford to produce them. >

Sure, but Ford already has 10k+ lightnings on the road. The cybertruck doesn't even have a release date. >

I wouldn't drive a Tesla if you gave it to me. >

Same. I live in Austin where there’s a Tesla factory and I see so many Teslas being driven on the road every day. Still a no from me. Even if I had the money to afford it I would be a chump for buying one. >

Tesla was the first to get to market, but they blew it. There are now so many other cheaper, better looking, and much more reliable vehicles to choose from. >

I wouldn’t own a Tesla if it was free. Elon can eat shit he’s a dick. >

Cool. If you're given one go ahead and send it my way if you don't mind. Fuck Elon, but never having to change my oil and antifreeze ever again is a solid win. EVs are practically maintenance free and make more sense than ever buying ICE again.