>

Do you pay taxes? No? Is it because you're too poor to do so? No, it's because you just don't feel like you should have to?
Okay.  But you don't get the benefits that come from paying them either.
Sending thoughts & prayers 🙏🏼 >


14 What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them? 
15 Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. 16 If one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? 
17 In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead (James 2) >

I’ve noticed that reading James makes a lot of “Christians” real uncomfortable. >

What do you mean? >

Many of the churches formed by the Protestant reformation affirm that believers are made right in God’s eyes solely through profession of faith, and not through good works. In these reformed ideologies, good works are seen as evidence of good faith, and not as a requirement for salvation. 
This is in stark contrast to what is written in James, and most of the reformists I know just kind of ignore James and try not to make eye contact when people bring it up. >

I see, thanks for the breakdown. I grew up Southern Baptist, so I know a small town full of hypocrites. It’s one of the reasons I left the church in the early aughts. I occasionally return to services when I’m in town, but I spend the majority of the time thumbing through the Bible out of nostalgic curiosity. I’ll have to re-read through James sometime. I spent this past Christmas service thumbing around Genesis 19 (thanks, Reddit!) >

Same same same. >

Only if Jesus gave us clear guidance on how to behave towards poor and homeless people… I suppose we’ll never know. >

Jesus was a filthy socialist 
~ godly republicans >

It's all about the trickle down faith... >

"It’s beyond frustrating because it’s impacting our ability to come to church to worship."
I can only imagine Jesus' indignation if he had to ignore and step over homeless people on his way to temple.
If only there was a multi-billion dollar non-profit organization that could help with this problem. >

*If only there was a multi-billion dollar, untaxable organization that could help with this problem >

If only they had giant buildings that are temperature controlled and unused 6 days a week. >

I mean, to be fair, the church I used to attend when I lived with my parents acted as a day care 5 days a week during the day, boys/girls clubs in the evenings, youth groups, young adults groups, worship team practices, weekly dinners for the local elderly. Don't think there was a day or night it wasn't in use. >

and the megachurch in Texas refused entry during a hurricane because they just had new carpet installed.  \~TBF >

I’d use church lightly on that one. Oldstein is the pastor. Not exactly concerned with the poor that one. >

Are any of the rest? (Rhetorical) >

Like many things, the smaller and more local it is, the better a church tends to be. >

Ehhhh, as a product of a small, rural Texas upbringing I can say “it depends”. Plenty of small, local churches are deep wells of racism and hatred that also hand out groceries to the community now and again. >

…and then gossip about the people who had to use the services… >

22 And Jesus visited the temple, and He looked upon the lepers and the poor and the widows who were there
23 Jesus said, "That is gross. I do not want to see those people. I am not going to the temple today until these people are gone from my sight, from my mind and from my heart."
2 Misanthropes >

As a misanthrope I feel insulted. >

Why should the city help a church…it’s not like the church pays any taxes. >

That's actually really good point.  If they don't pay taxes, why should the city provide them any services.  Like if a church catches fire, why waste fire department resources putting it out? >

that's a terrible example because fires can spread. also, even though the church itself doesn't pay taxes, the people inside don't deserve to burn alive because of it. i agree that MOST services should be taken away, but not the fucking fire department >

But what if the adjacent building is also a church? >

Then you’re most likely in the South with shitty infrastructure anyhow. Sherman should have burned the rest of it down. >

Something people seem to not be understanding is that these people are not just homeless, they are likely mentally ill and or also on drugs. They need professional help, not just a couple bucks or a bowl of soup. Do any of you live in the city? I can attest that in the Pacific Northwest, cities are getting bad. >

Maybe if they just had leprosy the church would help them in accordance with Jesus’ teachings… >

A homeless camp shouldn't scare off dedicated Christians. >

A group of mentally ill likely drug addicts who are shitting and pissing in the streets should scare off anyone that doesn’t want to walk in human shit. >

Their Christians,  treat the homeless like family, give a place to live,  shit and piss, get them help, get off drugs.
And don't give up on them. 
It's the Christian way. >

Are we seriously going to just ignore the crime and disgusting conditions that comes with having homeless encampments around because we hate religious people? Bet you wouldn’t be so patient if these tents popped up outside your house. >

I'm not a Christian. >

Neither am I. I’m also not an idiot who thinks that people should have to deal with a homeless encampment in front of their work place just because it’s a house of worship. >

They really should if they are Christian. It’s literally in their book. >

Nowhere does it say they have to dredge through human shit. If you read the article you would see the church is already doing work with the homeless. That doesn’t mean that they should have their space overtaken by them. >

Where are you getting the "dredge through human shit" part? Where in the article does it say that? >

Spoken like another Redditor that has never been anywhere near homeless encampments. I have. It’s a safe assumption to make that there’s human shit and piss near homeless people. Are you serious right now?? Does it really need to be explicitly stated in an article for you to believe that people who have no home shit in the streets? Jesus Christ Reddit is exhausting. >

Jesus famously flipped the tables because there were too many disgusting poors in/near his church >

I lived in Seattle, those homeless encampments are an open air drug market and full of sexual assault crimes. Seriously, be careful if your ever homeless. Also, the church is probably also acting as a food pantry for the homeless, so that's probably why they're staying close by to it. >

According to the news on TV, the homeless get their Amazon packages delivered at the church. >

I think all the 7-11's in Seattle have an outdoor Amazon drop box for packages, so that's barely an excuse if you don't have a mailing address. You can literally have an amazon package delivered to a 7-11 drop box of your own choosing and they email you a code to open the box. It's completely free too, so it's really not an excuse, but I'm not trying to bring hate on people that are down on their luck, just saying that that is an option in Seattle. >


think all the 7-11's in Seattle have an outdoor Amazon drop box for packages, so that's barely an excuse if you don't have a mailing address. 

You're completely full of it. - a guy in Seattle >

Whoever shuts their ears to the cry of the poor will also cry out and not be answered.
🤔 >

Seatle's refusal to deal with their issues in a meaningful way for decades caused this suffering. >

I mean it’s not just Seattle. The government hopes on the goodwill of corporations to provide donations for the homeless. Except when one party tries to pass legislation to help a group that isn’t the homeless then the other group goes “but the homeless!” And then quickly forgets they mentioned them at all. >

The issue I see in Seatle specifically is that it's taboo to discuss bad things people worse off than you do (beyond what they admit to doing). You can't criticize the homeless for, say, harassing business patrons because they're poor and obviously the only way to feel better is to shoot up heroin and attack people on the street. >

The issue I see in Seattle is that housing is unaffordable. There are many other second order effects that people like to focus on but nothing else has such an outsized influence on homelessness than the unavailability of affordable housing. You see this problem throughout much of the west (particularly California) as it has become increasingly an increasingly crowded and desirable place to live. >

Housing could be made more affordable, but doing so would involve addressing the fact that there is a problem, which Seatle and West Coast states struggle to do. It would also force them to ask other questions, like "why don't they move" or "where do we put them" because having them to do anything jnvolves acknowledging that there a reason problems and that somebody at some level isn't doing their job >

Trust me, I know a Seattle city councilman. They are really clear there is a problem. At least two are regularly affected by it that I know of.  The problem itself is much harder to solve than most realize. >

Seattleite here. They know there is a problem, and yet do almost nothing about it. I know because we have asked our councilman to do something about the homeless population that took over a nearby park in countless town halls over the years. 
And no, I don't mean the camp sweeps they do that result in the people scattering for a few months only to return back in six months. Most city residents are fed up to keep asking for concrete, long term plans to house more people, only to be met with endless hand wringing. 
People keep asking for legislation that might result in more affordable housing in the city, or for caps to luxury condos that basically cater only to tech employees with six figure salaries, but the council will never require either because they "don't wanna drive away developers". >

What legislation do you want to see? 
I know what I would like to see, but it would bring down property values for all homeowners. I'm OK with that, my home will never be worth less than what I paid for it, but that's not true for most. 
One thing to do is watch what happens in Canada in the the next few years. They just implemented my idea this past Sunday, at a federal level. It's either going to be great, or a disaster. They banned all foreign buyer sales of residential homes. Which is a part of Seattle's problem when it comes to high prices. 
I can tell you right now, I own a rental capped condo, its a micro version of no foreign buyers in a sense, although, it also keeps domestic real estate investors away too. You can't buy here unless you're going to live in the unit you purchased. The selling prices of these units and turn over is lower than most other condos in the area. And these units are in a great area, are huge, and have nice features like attached garages and yards. But they do sell for 100k less than other comparable units. >

Is that the condo your parents bought for you? >

Yep, that I have always paid in full for, so technically, they didn't "buy it for me." It's in a family trust for a variety of reasons. >

Scaring off parishioners..then you are preaching the wrong lessons to them...also, they are not worthy of following Christ and his lessons. >

Why is the mental illness of homeless people scarier than the mental illness of people who have homes? >

You people are acting like this is a megachruch in texas and not a small local community >

You can help others but also do so safely. Some of these homeless individuals are mentally unstable and not safe to be around. It doesn’t say the church doesn’t help homeless people. This is a systemic issue that all of us are responsible for helping. 
So many people in these comments are quick to judge the church when they themselves would never come near some of these people because it isn’t safe. 
We need mental health hospitals and stop throwing the mentally ill to the street. >

Yeah.  But every one of those “other people” pay taxes.  Churches do not.   They leech of society precisely because they preach compassion.   Now people are rightfully demanding the old adage of “practice what you preach”.  Either that or start paying taxes.   F—- churches! >

Who says this church is not helping the needy?
Are they mental health professionals that can engage with some people who are not safe to be around without proper training? 
These church goers have every right to care for their safety. Just as you do. 
This is not about taxes. >

I get that.  I do. And really the problem should be addressed by the government. With compassion and humanity.   I just don’t like that it’s only a problem if a church complains. >

I think everyone is complaining. The article is chastising the church for complaining too. 
It’s more us Vs them rhetoric so politicians can continue doing nothing for the problem but paying lip service and expensive programs that do more in the way of paying kick backs than getting anything done. >

Yeah, wasn’t that Psalms that said, “Ew, get rid of these dirty poor people”? Pretty sure it was a direct quote from Jesus right after he used a broom to keep the lepers back. >

At least pick a book from the NT, Broseph. >

This thread is another glorious example of redditors not reading the fucking article. Also this title is a complete misreading of what has actually been said:

We want them to get help, we want them to get off the streets. We don’t have the infrastructure as a small church to do that ourselves. We need help," Peppes told KOMO News. “Our parishioners who come from all over are very worried about their safety. They are afraid to come. It’s beyond frustrating because it’s impacting our ability to come to church to worship.” 

They’re not only asking for help out of fear for their parishioners, they want the homeless to get off the streets. 

Peppes said her congregation has participated in homeless services for years, including providing food to two shelters twice a month.

They are helping but they don’t have the infrastructure or the means to do more, why are churches expected to be the sole welfare provider in this country? It’s the responsibility of the fucking state to house these people, not a small church. Do ya’ll know how stupid you sound >

Woah now, we don't do any o that fancy readin round these parts. This is a story bout a church not wantin to have homeless people around and churches are bad. That's that. Now take yer religion and git! >

Hold on bud we don't do nunna that fancy readin roun here. This a story bout some church not wantin to take no homeless people in and the church ain't doin nothin about it! Dag gum. Get on up outta here with that religion stuff. >

So thousands of homeless in Seattle, the church probably helps as much as it can. But isn’t this a systematic issue the city needs to resolve? A small church can’t fix a never ending homeless crisis >

Yes >

The church should probably send people over to the encampment with leaflets. >

Pay your fucking taxes. >

There is a simple Biblical commandment to help the needy. But it needs to be done the right way. Historically the Catholic Church had monasteries, abbeys, convents, religious hospitals, etc. to distribute aid, they weren't making dangerous encampments by churches. Other denominations did and do similar things. This church is clearly trying to help, while keeping things safe. Those aren't mutually exclusive. 
I know that because I read the article. >

Good thing ‘God’ is involved. >

Why don’t they do what they’re supposed to do and help the homeless… >

My brother in Christ, you ARE the Help! >

It is God testing their faith. Doesn't look like they are doing to well. Sending thoughts and prayers to the homeless. >

If we are to believe the story,  Jesus would have welcomed the homeless into his home. Why can't this church do the same? Don't just pray/ talk do something >

They probably don’t have the means or the furnishing to do that. They can’t keep homeless people in the church 24/7, they don’t have security or caretakers, don’t have enough toilets or beds, what do you think that would look like? How would that work?The church is not Salvation Army, the fucking state should house those people >


They probably don’t have the means or the furnishing to do that. They can’t keep homeless people in the church 24/7, they don’t have security or caretakers, don’t have enough toilets or beds, what do you think that would look like? How would that work?The church is not Salvation Army, the fucking state should house those people

As one possible example..
They could start by finding at least a few homeless people who appear drug free, sane, etc and appoint them as shelter monitoring staff. In exchange, they get a place to sleep and store their stuff, but they have to keep it neat and clean.
They could maintain order and keep out people who would injure other people or the property. They would be monitored by the church to assure that they're doing the job correctly and not overstepping the bounds of reason.
Of course, this just won't happen. But it could. >

You have clearly never worked with the homeless. This plan would result in, best case scenario, the building is trashed within days. Worst case scenario and you just set up a nice drug den, with all of the violence and SA that comes with it. Yay. 
There's a reason homeless shelters have rules and locks. >

I thought our government didn't need to do stuff like this because we had churches. What are they even practicing at churches these days, politics or something? >

I wouldn't wanna walk through a bunch of homeless people to go to church. I wouldn't wanna walk through a bunch of homeless people to go anywhere. Have you ever been aggressively intercepted by a homeless dude demanding change? Shit's kinda messed up, NGL. >

After having read the article, I think a 
lot of people here are overlooking some critical factors.


It’s not like the church is chasing them off. They’re trying to find a solution.


What do you expect them to do? This individual church doesn’t have access to the entire bank account of all of Greek Orthodoxy, that’s not how it works. Even if it did, they wouldn’t necessarily know how to fix the problem, given that homelessness is a systemic problem.


Churches are not residential buildings and there are big logistical issues to using them as such. The actual function of the church is being impeded.


Caring about and helping the homeless is different than being vulnerable to strangers. Even homeless people are wary of other homeless people, and I’d bet everyone here would feel the same way.


One sentence doesn’t sum the is whole thing up, and this church has probably done more for Seattle’s homeless than anyone coming here and saying “lol, this church has a homeless problem, therefore everyone there must be hypocrites” >

Thoughts and prayers >

Uh-huh. The homeless camp. That's the reason why I've stopped going to church. Let's go with that. >

Thoughts and prayers just aren’t working I guess. >

The solution is to help them with their addiction and learn a marketable skill. It doesn't mean they have the right to stay in Seattle if they can't afford to. I don't buy that argument. I had to move hundreds of miles from my home town to find a job. Many people do this. "Preserving" them in a home until they are old is not a solution. >

You’re assuming they’re willing to try,
The chronically homeless (not just some temporary broke situation) won’t stop even if you gave them a job doing nothing that comes with a free house >

Yes overstep the multi trillion economy >

I wonder if the homeless are setting up camp there because the church is helping them. That would really seal the irony here. >

sounds like the HOMELESS PEOPLE need help, not the grifters hoping for 10% of your income that are put off by their presence
Jesus would despise these people >

Portlanders: “first time, huh?” >

Don't worry, Seattle PD will just drive them out with tear gas, batons, and rubber bullets. >

All they have to do is go out and try to recruit them to the church every day - win-win scenario - they either join the church and become new parishioners, or they leave out of sheer annoyance >

Maybe we should tax the church and give the money to programs for the needy >

What would Jesus do? >

Try paying taxes and get back to us >

Stop voting and supporting politicians that cater to the billionaires that are creating this.  How many Airbnb homes are in this area I wonder?.   How many empty homes owned by foreign investors hiding their money.?   How many hedge funds own houses in this area and are making rents unattainable to the poor?   OH yeah but Hillary's emails or something like that.  Religious fruitcakes.  Maybe someone should post this on r/LeopardsAteMyFace >

I'm pretty sure that news station ran this story to troll the church.  The irony is not a coincidence. >

This is KOMO news. They're worse than Fox in Seattle. Drama Queens. All their stories are scare mongering, othering, and they LOVE to bash on the homeless population. Sinclaire Media. Blech. 
Does Seattle have a homeless problem? Yes. Definitely. Unfortunately, like San Francisco, there is a giant housing shortage and no affordable rent. It used to be three or four people could rent a one bedroom and just bear with it until you could get ahead in life, but that isn't something that most apartments will allow anymore. You also can't rent without an excellent credit score. If you don't live downtown, you need a car, transit is almost non-existant. And if you have a car, gas will cost $5 a gallon and registration will cost several hundreds a year possibly. Parking might cost you $30+ a day. 
I have a friend who works in a grocery store in Seattle. About half their co-workers who are full time, are unhoused living in tents or cars and showering at gyms. A lucky few have managed an AirBnB room for around a grand a month. They're also drug free since drug tests are mandatory for employment.  Minimum wage is $15 an hour, but the cheapest apartments usually start around $1350 per month, for an "apodment" which is about 250sqft. And you have to make 2.5x the rent to qualify. So, they don't qualify. My friend only owns a home because they bought 30 years ago when a grocery clerk could afford a home on their salary. 
And that Greek Orthdox church has been problematic for a long time, if I recall correctly. The neighborhood they're in has always been... funky, artsy, lgbtq friendly, and they don't like it. They should move. This is also the "Chop" neighborhood. >

Yeah, I live in Capitol Hill and KOMO News is always full of fear-mongering stories about crime and the homeless and full of stories praising the new mayor for cleaning out encampments (completely ignoring that the homeless just come right back days later making the whole process pointless). >

I used to. A LONG time ago. Back in the late 80s and early 90s. I have a family member that's rented the same apartment for I think, 33 years now up there. I can say... despite all the fear mongering, especially about Capitol Hill, it's actually much safer, cleaner, and less rowdy than it was back then. But it's way less artsy and funky now, too. Which is a bummer. >

Every church in the country should be forced to allow homeless encampments AND to supply all the services they can. The tax-exempt status churches have and how they have used their "religion" to land grab is based solely on their services to the community. If they don't want to follow their own fairytales then they can start paying taxes. >

Remember how freaked out Jesus got by those lepers? >

Seems the best people to be of service would be… THE CHURCH. >

Lol, for real?   A lot of Christians spent a lot of time and money making sure that the government isn’t in a position to help people. >

James 2:14-17 
14 What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them? 15 Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. 16 If one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? 17 In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead. >

While I agree Christianity is hypocritical, I don't think that Christianity is responsible for this.  Look at the bigger picture people.  Government, which has replaced god for many Americans, is. >

All I see is a greedy church who probably should be taxed by the IRS and is sad they are losing money. >

"we are trying to be good Christians, but this suffering masses abandoned by society and in dire need of humanitarian help are in my fucking way" >

If you read the article, they are helping them, and becoming insolvent along the way >

No, no, this is the part where we complain about religious people not helping others while we also don't help people secularly. You aren't supposed to rain on the parade. >

The churches in my city refuse to help the homeless. It’s very sad. >

Mark 10:21-22
Jesus, looking at him, loved him and said, ‘You lack one thing; go, sell what you own, and give the money to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; then come, follow me.’ When he heard this, he was shocked and went away grieving, for he had many possessions.
Am I thinking of a different Jesus, maybe? >

Oh sure. Cherry-pick the one time Jesus wasn't talking about buying guns, stopping drag queen story hours, gay marriage and abortion. >

If parishioners are scared of homeless people than they need to rethink why they wanted to go in the first place.... >

Ya cuz having to walk by people with disorders who could assault your wife and kids…. Yeah super safe >

You’re a psychologist who was able to have sessions with all of those homeless people and determined they were all mentally ill? Wow >

they pay nothing in taxes and expect govt services to take care of the problem
​
such hypocrites