>

Well if we have to be stuck in this miserable limbo with someone I'm glad it's you guys. I'd vote for backing out, but I want to stick it out since we went in together and you have the tougher border.
That's funny because Turkey isn't even halfway to democracy >

Why do we keep Turkey in NATO? We really need to lower our tolerance for dictators. >

Mostly for geographic significance probably. >

This is precisely why. >

Yep, It is where “East meets West” and the the West would prefer they lean West.
I mean imagine if Russia,Turkey, and Iran teamed up. Absolute geopolitical nightmare for literally everyone else. >

Not to mention, they control the entrance to the Black Sea.  That's access to Ukraine and Russia by water, and we'd definitely like to be able to tighten things up if Russia misbehave. >

Turkey doesn’t control it.  It’s controlled by an international treaty.  If Turkey started denying passage in opposition to their agreement it would go very badly for them.  The whole reason the treaty was established was because everyone else was sick of fighting over that strip of land in the first place.  Not because Turkey was dictating the terms of the agreement. >


Turkey doesn’t control it.

If they're at war they do which makes it a benefit to have them in NATO instead of in alignment with Russia or someone else.

The whole reason the treaty was established was because everyone else was sick of fighting over that strip of land in the first place.

~~Huh? The last fighting over that strip of land was 500 years before the treaty was made~~ <- wrong >

Gallipoli was 500 years ago? >

ww1 - and we know how it turns out - since then turkey exists! >

It's the ole Turkish ice cream trick >

Hahahaha, that made me chuckle! 🤣 >

I betcha Sweden joins NATO before russia sees Kyiv. >

Russia saw Kyiv and then they were forced to leave. They didn't see inside it, but the Hostomel Airport is close enough. >

I, too, have been to Reykjavik.
Well, I saw it from the airport during my trans-Atlantic layover. >

I think if you had heavy arms and a desire to level it, they'd consider that to be close enough to count as a visit. >

Those countries that support Sweden & Finland membership into NATO should just create individual defense pacts and bypass Turkey's veto. >

They already did. >

Do you have a link for that? I would like to read more/details >

Okay, as a Swede I'm pretty tired of this guy trying to curry favour from Russia and blackmailing the rest of the NATO. Erdogan want's us to crawl and relinquish all moral values that we have upheld over the years.
I realize that the Bosporus is very important to the US but as I see it either our real allies in NATO step up to send a signal that Turkiye can not play both sides like this if they want to be seen as a friend, or we need to back out of the process. Standing in the doorway is just painting a target on our backs and costing us diplomatic capital for nothing. >

As a Finn and proponent of Nato for 20+ years I have to concede that the arguments of the opposition about allying with an authoritarian regime like Turkey being unacceptable have merit. The process is too far to stop now, but at least no concessions should be made to Turkey no matter how long it takes. Worst case scenario we can find alternatives, its not worth sacrificing our moral principles.