>

The stories I have...
I have a history of pulmonary embolisms (blood clots that form in your lungs; they can kill in an instant and you have to go to the ER right away). I had symptoms of one once, and thankfully ended up not having one, but the doctor I got... Jesus, this guy. He asked me what I'd been doing when the symptoms came on, and I told him I'd been watching a movie. His honest-to-god diagnosis, on my chart and the whole 9 yards, was that I needed to stop watching movies and start watching REAL things like the news. I shit you not. Turns out I had a decent amount of pleurisy.
I had another doctor I was trying to work with about unexplained pain, and he gave up on me really fast after running just one panel of tests. Instead of referring me to a specialist, he got his prescription pad out and wrote me a prescription for his CHURCH. (Turns out I have a couple of very valid pain complexes.)
Other things I've heard from idiot doctors:

Pulmonary embolisms don't hurt (they do)
Severe asthma attacks can't hurt (they can)
Your depression needs yoga
You don't need surgery for the two broken bones in your leg THAT much (....uh, yeah, I needed it right away)
You've got a brain tumor (which I did NOT, he diagnosed me from an x-ray, and you cannot do that, you need CAT, MRI, or PET scans)
It's impossible to get bilateral kidney infections (then how did I have them?!?)
Kidney stones higher up cannot hurt (*sigh*)
Your oxygen's at 90, it's fine (NO, I ended up admitted to the hospital)

If I had a nickel for every time my medically complicated ass got told something so stupid that someone who'd viewed one season of Scrubs could call BS on it, I'd be sitting pretty right now. And SO much of it was along the vein of "you're just a wussy woman who can't handle pain". And unfortunately, more often than not, these were ER doctors whose nurses were doing everything they could to take care of me and signal "this guy is a fucking idiot, I am SO sorry".
/soapbox
I work in an operating room, and I have colleagues who I’d allow to dissect brain tissue with full confidence that they are the right person for the job who I wouldn’t trust to make me a peanut butter and jam sandwich. >

same thing happens in engineering and techincians fields. I have had coworker I wouldn't trust with a screwdrive near me and ones I would trust to fix or build anything.
An MD seems like a really intense technical/trades degree. >

It's a trend that high aptitude in a prestigious field can often inhibit a broader understanding in other areas. Since people like that assume skill and understanding translate cleanly instead of realizing it is hilariously inconsistent. >

Most people learn 1 field in a school and don't really need to learn anything else in life. The chance of becoming a doctor is also tied to wealth and comfort in childhood years. Middle class at least, or parents willing to financially support you. >

I didn't touch on this but the other issue is that highly specialized fields often pull away studying and attention from broader subjects.
People like to complain about the Liberal Arts or a broader approach to primary education. But the benefit is your knowledge is more well rounded (In theory at least). >

Not even in theory. Ever meet a Classics major? Holy shit,  they're some of the smartest people I've met.
Pre-med seniors? Can barely make a grilled cheese sandwich. >

I'm 42 years old and this is the first time anybody mentioned my degree without making fun of me! 
Thank you! >

Aw, all those dead languages weren't for nothing. >

My sister has a phd. She also managed to drive 600 miles without headlights. >

How do you know how far it was? >

Gps, maps,odometers... She drove entirely at night and said nothing changed. >

Is she an owl? >

On a clear sky night, with decent moonlight you actually have better visibility without the headlights, the problem is that no one else can see you.
Me and my sister call these people "The Batman", see someone driving at night without headlight "Oh shit, did you see that, it's the Batman!" >

I work in IT and supported many doctors over the years.  I once had a brain surgeon tell me he was so dumb because he couldn’t figure out his computer issue and ad to call support.  I said look man calling yourself dumb for not knowing how to get a windows machine to boot after a boot sector mess up isn’t dumb.  I am not going to walk into a operating room and look at a human with their head cracked open getting operated on and call myself stupid for not knowing that.  You are highly trained in what you do better than probably 1% of the population you are not dumb but it is humbling. >

My wife is an MD. I hang out with doctors from time to time. Yea, I've run into quite a few that seem pretty stupid. Then again, we're all pretty stupid every now and then. It just goes to show that doctors are human too. >

It’s more that they spend such a large amount of time and energy devoted to a very specific skill set. Not all of them had time, money or energy to develop a lot of the other things people with less strenuous studies did. >

Such as social tact. >

Can confirm lol. Some of the best doctors that patients love are complete asshats in general >

I’ve met more dumb people who weren’t doctors than dumb people who were. >

Lol touché >

No one ever said every physician was an Einstein, but every physician in the US is going to be in the top 1% most intelligent and most educated people with regards to medical sciences. 
You may have had some anecdotal experiences with doctors without interpersonal skills or who were overburdened and overworked by the healthcare system within the United States but it doesn’t make what you have written true. Additionally, posts like this lead to a mistrust in the healthcare system as a whole. If you don’t like a particular doctor or how a particular health system works fine, don’t go there anymore. But don’t spew out blanket statements like you have here. >

Physician, as well.  I will say, by, at least American standards, I guess physicians are more "intelligent" by grades and whatnot.  I have no idea how to do 99% of what my friends do at their individual jobs.  We just have different training. 
 Usually, to get into an american medical school, you need at least around an A-/3.7 GPA (maybe 3.5) in college and good MCAT score.  I don't think that is 1%, though.  I will credit those that say "they are focused on what they are doing" and get tunnel vision.  Definitely true.  Including myself.  That being said, I am very surprised by the lack of a broad base of knowledge from many of my colleagues.  When it comes to some of the ole high school classes that were emphasized...history, literature, geography, etc...many have very poor knowledge in these subjects.  Always found it weird.  
The "mistrust in the healthcare system" is a different topic that I feel for FIRE_CHIP on.  We live in difficult times, especially since the covid pandemic, and infowars.  I 100% sympathize with this.  Not because the OP comment is flawed, but because of the culture we currently live in.  With infowars and the like/conspiracy theories/antivax...you name it, people try to grab whatever juice they can find, and run with it.  But, despite my sympathies, does that mean we can never talk critically about certain topic just because some people are going to abuse misinformation.  My answer is we cannot >

Unless you're an URM, you probably aren't getting into med school with a 3.7 let alone a 3.5 >

I got into a few top med schools less than 10 years ago with a 3.7. 3.5+ is fine I think if everything else is in line. >

You're underestimating the arms race it has become, it is no longer fine >

There is a degree of correlation between education and intelligence but it’s not cut and dry. 
Some people only make it through advanced degrees because they are stubborn and hard working, or cheat their way through school. 
There are plenty of highly intelligent individuals who can’t pursue advanced degrees due to the cost, or simply aren’t motivated enough to do so.
There is a smaller population of people who are highly intelligent AND passionate about what they study. That being said, not every person with a high IQ has a high EQ. You could be a master of your trade but an idiot when it comes to people / common sense / street smartness.
Lastly, there is a very small population of highly intelligent individuals with high emotional intelligence and great social skills. Edit: removed part about smart, high EQ people being good leaders or CXO’a because this is apparently very controversial >

And there are those who end up doing masters/PhD because they can't find a job. >

True, especially in the humanities. Pretty easy to get a STEM job with a bachelors >

Depends on the field. Chemistry is notorious for needing a PhD if you want to do anything besides being a lab tech. >

same with biology. or many basic sciences. STEMs getting good jobs right away is becoming a myth for all the non-engineers >

On a similar note, some of the most unstable, immature people I've ever known are therapist. >

Real as hell, a lot of people study psychology to understand their own issues better. >

My friend has a joke that basically goes “Women get degrees in psychology just to get manipulated by dudes who struggled through special ed” lmao. >

Brutal >

I honestly think it’s because a lot of doctors use ALL of their brain juice on doctor-ing. My cousin is a paediatric surgeon and is fantastic at her job, i’d trust her with anything medical - I have also seen her nearly get run over by cars on SEVERAL occasions. The woman can operate on children but has not yet mastered crossing the road… >


The woman can operate on children but has not yet mastered crossing the road…

Wait a second, I think your cousin might be married to u/AoiGyoshi's friend!

A guy I know is married to a Ph.D. Apparently, in her field, she is one of the smartest people ever. I have seen her struggle to cross the street by herself. She has zero common sense. >

PhDs don't do surgery. >

A lot of doctors are double PhD and MD. The geneticists I work with are. >

Some neurosurgical programs end with both MD and PhD. >

In the netherlands it is almost fully a requirement to have a PhD before being accepted into neurosurgery residency >

I used to work in higher ed. Some, if not most of the PhD's I worked with I wouldn't trust with a butter knife. >

My husband had a fellow PhD student set something on fire in their lab because they were that clueless. >

Know a Environmental Engineering PhD candidate that lost an F-250 4x4 in a field to a fire. Allegedly the exhaust could not have possibly caught the grass of fire. Anyway, the only thing left was the license tag, even the engine block melted. The best part was the project was a joint effort between Civil Engineering and Geology, the truck belonged to the Geology department, which is in the College of Arts & Sciences, so no one in his department or the College of Engineering really cared and he still matriculated with a PhD. >

That just reminds me of Matt Damon's/Mark Watney's anecdote in the Martian on how JPL got started. >

Don't mistake education for intelligence >

Try teaching pre-med students in STEM courses. They're absolutely obsessed with their grades and will hound you to Hell and back over every missing point, yet they refuse to understand that actually understanding the material might help their grades.
Rote memorization until the day of the test, then just forget everything. >

that's what highschool does to a brain, specially those that want to go to high grades universities like med school.. People loose curiosity, interest, creativity, etc and just start looking into "how to maximize my grade with the less effort possible for this career path" >

Why would I spend 200k to be curious though. I need a job and want to make money and school is a means to get there >


Why would I spend 200k to be curious though

IMO, because it's the most valuable pursuit in life. >

I mean I’m curious and learn lots of stuff but it’s not something I’m going to learn at school. I have the worlds knowledge available to me with the internet. I spend my time learning about fishing and my hobbies. I can go learn what physics makes an arrow fly better and how to tune my bow setup to work better. I don’t care about 17th century history or whatever most of my gen eds focused on. I have to work to afford my hobbies and college was the most practical way to do that. I’m able to work when I fall mountain biking and hurt myself unlike my trades friends. >

To be honest, I think schooling （at least in my country) is just meant to select candidates who can survive under endless boring task, and be careful enough to answer questions correctly, because those quality are what cooperation and government looking for. 
Curiousity is good, but I think that is just a bonus in education system. >

Yeah the degree shows you have some level of understanding of a subject and that you were able to do the work, meet deadlines and show up. If someone has a degree and a second equal person doesn’t it is just easier for an hr person to take the candidate with a degree >

I am a med student. 
I used to think that some of my peers are some of the dumbest and most childish people I’ve met in my life. 
Then I started clinical years and I met actually stupid people. It blew my mind how wrong I was. 
Do you have to be brilliant to become a doctor? Absolutely not. Most of us are just more hardworking and narcissistic than the average person. Probably higher than average intelligence, but not geniuses or anything. 
Are there doctors who you have met that are literally some of the dumbest people you’ve met? Probably not, unless you don’t interact with people that much.
Edit - Spelling >

You sound exactly like my daughter. Worked her butt off to be top 10 in a large HS, started pre med, then was diagnosed as ADD and dyslexic. We thought, oh well, her volleyball skills were paying for college, so she will get her degree...... she had other ideas. She applied for considerations for having a disability, and then proceeded to study ALL THE TIME, and graduated with all A's. Studied for a solid 6mos., +12hrs/day to take the MCAT, but never asked if she could have the same considerations as college, so she did above avg, but not well enough to get an offer. One of her advisors asked why she didn't get the considerations, so she applied for and was approved,  studied her butt off for another 6mos, and got a high enough score to get in to the med school at her alma mater. This kid has absolutely no street smarts, no STEM skills, despite my wife and I both being engineers, BUT is the kindest, hardest working human that I know. Would I ask her to show me how to adjust the hospital bed? Nope. Would I trust her to be my Dr? Yup. Everyone is different. >

A medical doctor without STEM skills? >

Hard work is more important than talent 90% of the time. >

I'd call being able to learn enough biology to earn an MD, no matter the amount of effort a STEM skill. >

This is basically why the whole appeal to an authority figure fallacy is a thing.
I've had a similar experience, just completed a PhD and met some unbelievably dense people along the way. >

Yeah, someone having a PhD just means that they have a lot of knowledge in a specific area, it does nothing to guarantee a breadth of knowledge at all, and does even less to make sure that they can actually apply their knowledge. >

Even that is debatable. A lot of phds today are pushed out. People are buying their phds. >

How do you buy a PhD? Honest question, from someone who actually has a PhD. Some fields may be different, but you don't usually pay tuition at all for a PhD. You "pay" for a PhD by doing TA work, teaching, doing research, and getting grants. It's exploitative for sure, but in the sense of the uni exploiting low paid labor, not the PhD student buying a degree. >

Lots of salty people in here because they aren’t as educated as others and are trying to justify their sense of ego. >

I know right? Dont be fooled guys, a phd person is a phd person for a reason. They are not average joes or marys. >

It’s a huge commitment to learning and go figure learning makes you smarter lol >

Education =/= Intelligence >

Some of the dumbest people i know say theyre ReelySmart >

Reelly* 
Learn to spell idiot /s >

I don’t think this is an unpopular opinion. Doctors, like you and I, are human. And some humans are dumb. >

Well to become a qualified doctor takes an insane amount of hard work and accumulation of understanding in the field. 
It just surprises me how some qualified doctors can achieve this. Their academic abilities do not seem to correlate with their overall general intelligence and competence. >

A lot of people are gifted in the area of academics but absolutely have no creativity and applying their knowledge is very difficult.  I know several people who are very brilliant students but have never been able to figure out life. >

Seriously. A lot of people are good at academics and think they're intelligent in all areas... but man, they're some of the stupidest people around. >

There are different kinds of intelligence. Makes sense that some people that are incredibly smart in one area aren’t going to be the same in another. >


there are different kinds of intelligence

Truth right here. I genuinely believe intelligence is not only academic ability, but maturity, compassion, self-reflection, and willingness/capacity to evaluate other viewpoints. 
I’ve tried to communicate with people who showed none of these latter traits, and they were indistinguishable from morons. Their arrogance and selfishness had clouded their minds to the point that new information simply meant nothing to them. >

This reminds me of a story my dad told me a long time ago.
He was working as a mover for a company, they we're moving the super rich doctor out of a multi-million dollar house into another multi-million dollar house. Dude was regarded as one of the best neurosurgeons in our state at the time.
He started screaming and berating the movers because they told him it was physically impossible for them to move this couch down this flight of stairs to the basement where he wanted it. He demanded to know why it wasn't possible.
My dad basically had to sit the guy down and explained to him, that he didn't build the house, and he didn't design the couch, the people that did, did not collaborate with each other, and it is physically impossible for us to move this object down there. There is not enough space no matter which way we twist turn or try to get it down there.
The dude just could not comprehend that a certain shape can't fit in a certain hole, but he was literally a fucking neurosurgeon. I could never in a billion years do the things that this guy does, but at the same time, I would like to think that I could successfully solve a toddler puzzle. >

Did you PIVOT the couch down the stairs? >

Depends what you mean by 'dumb'. A lot of doctors seem to have excellent memory and analytical speed. A lot of academically bright people aren't so smooth socially, it goes beyond medicine. >

Some have so many things to constantly learn in order to be good at this one thing they do, that they don't have time to exercise any other skill or knowledge. My friend is one of them. He is a good doctor and everyone in the hospital trusts him but when it comes to social skills or anything other than his profession he seems dumb as fck. >

Then you haven't met enough actually dumb people. >

As a medical student and being in the field; medical students seem to be lacking in the social department. it's like spending all your points on knowledge and leaving social skills at 0. This leads to awkward interactions with doctors I believe >

I don't disagree. I work in research and the amount of times I've had to educate people with PhD's (I know, not that kind of Dr, but some also have MDs) on how to do very simple every day things just blows my mind. I've even heard some spread misinformation about topics within THEIR OWN FIELD! The whole talk about nepo babies in Hollywood is laughable to me because the amount of nepotism in STEM is insane and no one wants to talk to about it for fear of making people not trust scientists, doctors, etc. But it's important and more needs to be said. >

The more specific the knowledge they have, the shittyer their general knowledge tends to be. >

Ben Carson is one of the most respected neurosurgeons in the world, but his 2016 run for president showed him to an absolute dunderhead when it comes to political matters.
I think there’s a general expectation that if someone is a specialized expert in one field, they are just naturally intelligent/talented people who would obviously excel in any other field as well. The experts themselves often buy into this because it flatters their egos. But in reality, that expectation couldn’t be more incorrect. >

Are you sure you just aren’t falling victim to the dunning Kruger effect?  Like who are you to judge someone’s competence outside of their profession? >

Not to mention your username is ironic >

Not dumb, but incredibly naive, from my experiences. 
I work at a hospital. >

And I would say, out of touch sometimes >

As in actual US (not Caribbean) MDs? A little surprising. Very high barrier to entry.
Now if we were talking JDs I would not be surprised. Anyone with a pulse can get into a law school. Which is why ranking matters so much more
*I also note that a lot of the “dumb doctor” comments I hear are from patients angry at recommendations to lose weight and drink less >

Yes, but then a JD isn't getting into a law school, but graduating, and around 25% of people drop out of law school cuz law school fucking blows.
That said, while I met many dumb people in law school and many dumb doctors, in general they still absolutely eviscerate the dumbest possible flat earther or whatever.
Doctors or lawyers are not inherently intelligent or wise. But if numerous of the "dumbest people that you have ever met" were doctors (or lawyers) you should get out more, as you will be distressed to learn that people get wildly more idiotic than that. >

In general doctors have seemed pretty good for me.
That said, I have met some that don't listen to their patients very well. I suspect they get so tired of dumb or nutty people ("no vax! no blood transfusions!") that after a while they start not listening and just regurgitating the first most likely diagnosis.
And sometimes they make mistakes. But as they're accustomed to not listening to you, they're also accustomed to not listening to you pointing out a mistake. >

I worked security at a major hospital, always had to help the top doctor’s get their keys out of their locked cars. >

Haha. That’s me! I’m not a doctor. I’m a technician.  A great one. I can troubleshoot like no other. I can find root causes to issues just by looking at data and logs while other technicians will keep replacing the failed part 3-4x before having to send in the whole unit to tech Depot. I also have ADHD, I’m a huge klutz, and at times a gigantic space cadet. Last week I repaired something in 20 minutes that was supposed to take 4 hours. And then in the same afternoon I locked myself out of a secure area because I left my badge in the bathroom. 🤦‍♂️ >

I work at a well respected university in Britain and I am still surprised at the stupidity of some of the academics, even after 7 years. >

I chalk this up to some skills being so specialized that they get hyper focused on it and they have no more cognitive room for anything else.
Also feel that they become very tunnel vision when it comes to diagnostics. Sure they send people out for testing. But they also put themselves in a corner based on how many times they've seen the same issue occur in other people. >

Same goes for Architects, Engineers & Politicians >

I know plenty of people who are so very intelligent when it comes to their passions and so insanely fucking dumb when it comes to like cleaning a bathroom or doing laundry. No ones intelligent in all topics, even highly respected professionals. I mean Ben Carson is a neurosurgeon… great example. >

They just have localised intelligence but most have hubris that their intelligence is broadly applicable rather than the result of persistent application.
I have been a pro poker player for 10+ years and consistently some of the easiest money I have won comes from doctors, lawyers, finance types. >

I have a PhD and can confirm this. You are so specialized in one area I think it takes away from other areas. >

Spend the entirety of your 20’s in school and training. I’m just a student and I went from cooking full meals to takeout and now if I didn’t get lunch at the hospital cafe i chose to starve to death. I completely forgot I could just make a sandwich at home. >

I am a physician myself and in many ways am fairly unimpressed by the thinking of many of my colleagues. I think there are different types of 'intelligence', and it may take a certain type to become a doctor but that doesn't mean someone is a wise sage in other ways.
I have a friend who is a PhD astrophysicist who transitioned at some point into medical research. He was told that one of the worst groups for medical research are former clinical physicians, as they believe what they were taught too much.
I think many physicians are basically highly trained, in some sense like soldiers, but don't always think nearly as clearly about things outside of their training as they might think.
FWIW. >

At urgent care for bronchitis symptoms (pre-Covid):
Doctor1: you’ve tested positive for strep throat, I’m going to prescribe an antibiotic 
Me: but what about my coughing symptoms?
Doctor1: it should treat that too
Narrator: It did not treat that too
A few days later at doctor2, me: I’ve been having trouble coughing and went into urgent care, I tested positive for strep and they put me on an antibiotic but it hasn’t helped
Doctor2: strep doesn’t cause coughing 
Me: I…I know? That’s why I’m here?
Doctor2: take mucinex DM
Me: I’m already taking extra strength mucinex and dextromothorphan doesn’t help my cough symptoms 
Doctor2: I haven’t told you to take dextromothorphan 
Mucinex DM
Doctor 3 finally hooks me up with codeine/phenergan cough syrup and a decadron injection. (Doctor 2 is her husband. I don’t understand their relationship.)
Visit with doctor 3 again during Covid for asthma flare up, nurse: are you experiencing any pain
Me: yeah I have a sore throat 
Nurse with horrified expression: you’re supposed to tell the front desk if you have a sore throat!
Me: it’s from coughing, that’s why I’m here, my doctor is aware of my symptoms, she told me to come in
Nurse: no, it says you’re here for asthma, that doesn’t cause coughing
Asthma
My mom had a similarly fun time even getting my asthma diagnosis when I was 5. She’s a family practice physician herself and doctor after doctor was like “lady you’re daughter just has a cold” before she finally got in with an asthma specialist. So I’m well versed in doctor stupidity. She’s also had to make my dad turn around and take my sister back to urgent care because the doctor there decided my sister’s ankle was sprained without doing an x-ray. Her ankle was definitely broken. 
Also my friend went into the same urgent care with doctor1 about a month later after she accidentally ate cinnamon and was having an allergic reaction. The doctor again decided to give her a strep test and it wound up being positive so I’m very suspicious doctor 1 doesn’t know the difference between the control line and treatment line on the antigen test. >

we truly have to do our own medical research as laymen as well >

A factor that also contributes to this is that I've met many medical professionals who seemed to have cultivated the skills of their career for the social prestige that comes with being a doctor, rather than with the intent of being able to help people with their various maladies. This can result in a less than thorough, almost dismissive approach to how some medical professionals assess the cause behind why their patients are seeking their help. >

So many doctors aren’t even smart at being doctors. Researching meta analysis’s of clinical studies and knowing how to navigate proper and cited (ALWAYS CITED) sites and articles can help you learn more about your own condition and medication more than your doctor. They’ve fucked me many times. Their incompetence and lack of knowledge when you ask them a question you already know the answer to is genuinely depressing. >

Doctors can be indeed and it’s extremely dangerous because they often manipulate patients to believing their stupidity, from anti  vaxx nonsense to just being so out of date, they dismiss actual newer medical illnesses.
I had a bunch of doctors not believe my hip pain for long because they didn’t know. But what made it worse is, they BELIEVED they were right, and not that they didn’t have the knowledge. They believed they were correct and nothing was wrong all bc they didn’t bother keeping up with research.
It’s not surprising many doctors honestly are 20 years behind and chose to stay that way because they are stupid >

I have not found this to be true of medical doctors, but have for other fields >

It's a toss up. I've had PhDs I was concerned would forget to take care of their basic needs, some MDs I was like I trust you with my ears bro but I wouldn't with much else, and then there's PhDs and MD/DO I think could have done what ever they wanted >

My wife is a doctor, she like me grew up as a POC froorm a working class family, many people who go into medicine come from money because you essentially give up 8 years in your 20s having no income, and 4 to 8 years with shit pay in residency. 
The smart doctors I've met are all from poorer or working class families, her colleagues that lack social skills, lack common sense, etc come from families that are wealthier, and parents/aunts /uncles/ cousins are doctors and used nepotism to get into American med school programs and easily get into residency. >

I've argued with doctors over shit more times where they are wrong and never have they ever gone back on their claim and considered my (correct) suggestion. Have to plea with a doctor to get sent to xray for a broken bone or how I was unable to get a referral for physical therapy another time. >

My neighbors parents were both doctors. They let their kids rule the house which was always incredibly messy and filled with the newest gadgets like a soda stream or a fancy potato peeler. It was fun growing up but confusing. The kids were smart too. There were a lot of them. >

As a medical student, I agree haha .
The thing is , there's definitely dumb people in all jobs, but the thing with practising medicine is that usually students and doctors have to devote so much time to it , that they live in that kind of bubble. Yup doctors need to touch grass . >

You know what they call someone who graduated at the bottom of their med school class? They call them Dr. >

Rating your doctors on a curve rather than competency isn't a good look. >

Agreed. I have family members who are doctors and they act like they are God's gift to the earth and they know everything. They are wrong about a lot. >

There is a great misunderstanding of how the medical system works and its failures or limitations are often times blamed on the physicians. 
Emergent labs and imaging are inconclusive, so you were told by your generalist to follow up with a specialist? Those stupid doctors, if only they knew what they were doing…. Your doctor declined to give you opioids for your chronic back pain? Not allowing you to eat while they await the results of a CT scan? If only those arrogant idiots had some empathy… 
The verbal abuse is rampant and makes the job significantly less enjoyable >

A reddit circle jerk where people can knock one of the hardest professions that serves people. They get in hundreds of thousands of dollars of debt, specialize in medicine, spend hours upon hours studying, but because they are not smart in everything people have to knock doctors down to make themselves feel better. >

They probably only do this to make themselves feel better >

I was in route for a medical degree. Left the field because of cost and I couldn't get myself to commit the time for it anymore. I have to 100% agree. I grew up very differently from a lot of my colleagues and I was very aware of their lack of common sense or intelligence outside of school work. It was weird. 
Also, there's a lot of drug use. It's very interesting seeing a buddy of mine conclude his Cardiothoracic Surgery Residency. He was the guy was taking ~~LCD~~ LSD all the damn time. He would fall asleep in alleys, break into shit, and all sort of crazy shit. I havent seen him this year, but he was still doing it last year lol His dealer is now a pediatrician. So much more.
They're human and just as fucked up as all of us! >

Man, he needs to get on that OLED. There are less side effects >

Lmao, I've been telling him for years that he needs to stop licking screens; It's not the same! >

My cousin is massively smart. He’s Oxford university educated and now works as an Ambassador in some country somewhere (don’t ask, I can’t remember). But I do remember when we were younger, we were playing a board game and one of the questions was ‘Spell Chrysanthemum backwards’ immediately he spelled it backwards, without even thinking… perfectly… but, later that weekend, my dad was cleaning out the garage, he gave my cousin a broom and asked him to sweep the garage out. He couldn’t do it, he was completely incapable of operating a tricky piece of equipment like a broom. >

Education takes many forms and there's a first time for everything >

I know dozens of doctors.. I think you're projecting insecurity.  I'm not saying they're the smartest people in the world but they are far from dumb.
My wife is a dentist and she's extremely smart too. >

Exactly. It’s insecurity for sure >

Whenever I hear a comment like this I assume the commenter just doesn’t understand enough about medical science to realize they are in fact the dumb ones
“I disagree with this dr who has an 8 year medical degree… i can’t be wrong since I looked things up on the Internet so they must be wrong” >

I don't think theyrereferring go disagreeing with them medically. They're referring to knowledge outside of medicine. >

The OP says they fail to carry over their text book learnings into real world applications so they’re talking about knowledge relating to medicine >

Good point. I missed that part and was looking at the aspect of not knowing anything outside it. I understand what you're saying. I do understand some peoples frustration, I've known a lot of people that have been given generic advice by doctors and had to constantly chase for them to look into it any further. >

Am Dr. Last time I did an iq test I was genius/gifted level. But this was age 10 and 2 other kids got similar results. So not sure how accurate that was.
I've never come across a dumb Dr.
Lazy, depressed, sub optimal ones yes. But straight up bad or dumb ones.... No. I've met way more doctors than the average person.
You must also remember I interact with the public. Now that is a different story. They are insanely dumb. >

I would expect the public to be a normal distribution of intelligence, not "insanely dumb". >

"Tut Tut, if these doctors really learned something why aren't they able to know this specific piece of knowledge that I know, but is unrelated to their field, hmmmmmm?" >

The difference between book smarts and street smarts is unreal >

Ben Carson comes to mind after reading this… 
He’s probably amazing at what he did/does medically, but the way he would speak on basic concepts and get them so wrong, just baffled my mind. 
I don’t know if it was me or just the way he speaks but it seemed from his speech that he was constantly struggling to string a sentence together or make any compelling answers to basic policy/general knowledge questions.
To be honest, it’s quite impressive that you can be so talented in an area/topic that it severely deprives you in other, seemingly basic, areas/concepts! >

ben carson has entered the chat >

I was argued with my friends husband (who was the doctor) that Coke zero had sweetener in it. He insisted that it didn’t because it was sugar-free. I had to show him the ingredients list with Splenda on it. >

I always see it as how much brain space someone has. If all my brain is focused on brain surgery I’m not going to have much space for other things. Plus if I’ve only been studying one thing for that long, the rest of the world and things will fall to the wayside >

Do technical support for anybody in a medical office and fear for your life. >

I have met very dumb lawyers, too. >

Just because someone is a doctor doesn’t mean they aren’t human. >

I feel like OP is forgetting that doctors go through countless hours of practicum which they have to complete in order to practice. They have to have training in the real world in order to graduate and in order to practice. It’s not like they’re just studying and memorizing their book, then they become doctors and get to work with real people. >

This is a key illustration on the differences between intelligence and education. 
It's possible to be extremely well educated but still be incredibly stupid.While you can be extremely intelligent but lack the education to match less intelligent peers. Always remember that education does not equal intelligence. >

You can apply this to a lot of academia. In their field they’re super knowledgeable. Anything that’s not that though, yikes. It’s honestly a big problem for people that are experts in one field to limit themselves to what they’re knowledgeable on. >

Educated does not equal intelligent. Never has and never will. Too many examples of this for it to be false. >

cough Ben Carson cough >

Buried in text books and detached labs and internships til 30 along with the often “legacy” motivation for carrying on dads/grandads livelihood and its no surprise MDs are often manchildren with limited social skills and high school humor. >

I mean it sorta makes sense. To become a doctor/surgeon means you sacrifice a big part of your social life from your teens until your thirties. So school and the hospital is what occupies most of their lives until they’ve got their license. They are missing a lot of life experience that most people get in their late teens and twenties, those experiences also form part of peoples’ intelligence. Doctors are not the dumbest people you’ve met but they can sure lack basic “street smarts” outside of their expertise. >

Some people are better at their jobs than others?  Your occupation doesn't determine your aptitude?  Wow what a revelation, really ground breaking stuff here /s >

I am very scared of residents. Some have a god complex and are complete aho***. As a nurse you have to be very careful to know what you are doing to catch mistakes because there will be many. >

Why not post a few concrete and specific examples of these supposed dumb docs being dumb? >

Naw. All the doctors I know are smart. People judge others in biased ways because it’s impossible not to. So we value different aspects as might. Jew one thing as being more intelligent than another.  Being good at one thing doesn’t prevent you from being well balanced. What a lot of you guys are describing is the fact that some neurodivergent groups are drawn to medical and technical fields. The dumbest people I meet are uninterested and uncreative people. Granted I might know only a cohort of conscientious and bizarrely intelligent doctors but they’re are certainly doctors who like the esteem and thus pursue the career for those reasons. I wonder how long those types stick with it? >

My husband is a brilliant engineer. Can’t find his AirPods ever. It’s been 14 years since I told him there’s a magic way to soak a bowl in the sink to let the stuck on stuff get unstuck, and he really needs help figuring out how to make lunch for a toddler. Can solve insanely difficult math problems, he writes all sorts of code or whatever. Can’t organize plans for a Christmas present with his siblings. >

Academia and common sense are completely separate, seen it too many times, a head full of books and brain devoid of basic understanding.
This is why these people need interpreters, cuz outside of their field, they're usually complete idiots >

My partner is a Doctor. They are simultaneously the smartest and dumbest person I have ever known. Ask them anything about medicine and they'll give you the answer in seconds. Ask them to cook spaghetti bolognese and ill be lucky if the house isn't burned down !! It's an interesting life >

MD PhD here. Agreed.
Also among fellow doctor this is not an unpopular opinion at all. >

Retired nurse here. A conclusion was reached: they used up all their smarts to become doctors and there was nothing left for common sense. >

I have worked for doctors and surgeons for 20 years. Many can't handle proper hygiene or common decency. And then they get to a point they have staff members do basic chores, because they just don't know how. As a 20yo young lady, I actually had a grown ass man tell me to move a desk to the second floor. I flat out told him no.
My doctor now asks for parental advice. Her oldest kid is only a year younger than mine. She has 4 kids, but constantly comes to me for advice. Then she asks if I have any ideas and my thoughts on how to run her practice. I have no fucking opinion on any of it. I just avoid the questions. She even texted me during the weekend asking if I knew why her refrigerator stopped dispensing water. Her husband is a fucking engineer! 
Don't get me started on the patient’s that are doctor's, laywers, or teachers. Worst patients. They refuse to be educated. >

You talk to anyone that works in a hospital and they will tell you which doctors are terrible and which ones actually know what they're doing. 
On the surface it's concerning being that it's potentially (and often) someone's life on the line. At the same time, they are humans too. >

The medical doctors I know who are friends or acquaintances think they are brilliant at EVERYTHING.  Huge egos.  But that may just be part of being a brilliant doctor idk >

I had to teach a doctor how to connect to the internet like a week ago. I almost was in disbelief. >

It’s also because the purpose of for-profit healthcare is to make money, so the medical field often attracts narcissistic greedy people rather than those who want to heal. >

You dedicate yourself to something for so long, you kinda lose grip on everything else from the sounds of it. >

I work in IT. I have worked in customer support for IT. People are experts at the field they spend the most time in. Its ok to be dumb outside of your specialty. Doctors, Lawyers and SMB people were the worst to deal with. They did not understand, and refused to learn or trust others.
Ask experts, be kind and respectful and move on with your day. >

I could not agree more with this statement.  Doctors are not as smart as you would think. >

I casually dated this guy for a few months and kept it casual because while he was fun, he was genuinely one of the dumbest people I’ve ever met. It was like dating a golden retriever with one brain cell. Last I heard he was in med school working on his doctorate. I’m legitimately scared for his patients. >

As said in your edits: they don't update their knowledge. That is the biggest red flag with doctors, for me. THEY DONT UPDATE THEIR KNOWLEDGE. so imo: 9/10 can rot. >

Sounds like the “ivory tower” phenomenon. >

No but this though. I don't trust doctor's for shit.  My mother has her PhD and she is an anti-vaxxer so that already tells me that education does not equal intelligence.  But I have also had bad experiences with doctors due to their own arrogance and overestimation of their knowledge and have had them make my issues *worse* by not listening to me and assuming they know better. 
They nearly always have a superiority complex and are often arrogant/ dismissive. As if their degree means that they are never wrong.  I greatly prefer Nurse Practitioners as in my experience they tend to have more empathy and humility. >

You would assume that people who have put through school and medicine license exam to be smart on their field. Now if you feel they are dumb in your subjective metrics feel free to do so. >

I work IT at a hospital.  Some of the most entitled, meanest, laziest pieces of shit I've ever met in my life are doctors.  Everyone kisses their ass and shits all over them as soon as they walk away.  Fuck doctors (Except the cool ones) >

Also some confirmation bias here for sure, I mean your job is in a hospital so likely a huge majority of people you work with or for are doctors. You might say the same about lawyers if you worked IT in a law firm I imagine >

Rind a ding ding, get this man a prize. Everyone's the smartest, sanest, saintliest person around in their own head, rarely is anyone ever considering they might be the dumb, short-tempered, thin-skinned one.
I'm sure he's met plenty of amazing Doctors but they don't stand out as noticable in his mind rather than the ones who commit transgressions only he knows about. >

Can confirm. The drummer in my band when we were teenagers 15 years ago was dumb as a box of rocks, yet is now a prestigious orthopaedic surgeon. >

Hating >

Agreed. Doctors are people and like people some of them are stupid. >

Based on research, testing, etc..  85% to 96% of all people are stupid.  Having a "higher" education further exacerbates the possibility of a demonstrably observable disparity between education and intelligence .   Often times highly educated people are arrogant and narcissistic.   This is part and parcel as to why they are stupid.   Confidence is not the same as arrogance and most people conflate the two.  Arrogance keeps you ignorant and ignorance keeps you arrogant. 
People make mistakes, but when you deny the how and why underneath the mistake and refuse to course correct.   You remain stupid.    
Would you do something stupid if you knew it was stupid?  Most people would say no.   But if you do something stupid, chances are high that you are not aware that it is stupid.  This then requires the proper response to the outcome or consequences.  This,  or you have to be able to allow someone else to inform you that it is stupid.  Most people today cannot handle conviction, confrontation, criticism or conflict.   When in reality, all thought is conflict.  So if you refuse correction when being challenged, confronted or contended with, in regards to the "stupid" you have done. You are proving that you are stupid. 
John Cleese of Monty Python fame said in and interview once in regards to an assertion made by social psychologist David Dunning  -  In order to know how good you are at something,  it requires almost the exact same skills to actually be good at it in the first place.   So that if you are absolutely no good at something, it is because you lack the fundamental basic skills to recognize that you're no good at it. 
We are all capable of stupid to be sure. But studies do show that people who refuse correction, refuse to admit fault, don't ever consider the experiences of others,  don't read,  never consider worst case scenarios and plan accordingly. Never thinking in terms of probabilities, only certainties and don't know the difference between fact and opinion.  Refusing to admit or acknowledge when they don't know something or aren't good at something.  This is what a truly stupid person is. Yep, this is serious.   Social media plays a huge role in the creation of this type of person. 
Alphas are no longer alphas because of how dependent they have become on betas for validation.  People's feelings, getting the best of them because they cannot or refuse to examine facts and look at things objectively.  Only caring about how things make them feel, to the point that facts and objective truths will often be completely disregarded in favor of subjectivity.   People wanting and needing to belong to a social hierarchy so much that they are willing to outsource their critical thinking to an unthinking, liberal hive mind and then blindly follow a narrative just so they aren't canceled.   Just so they can belong to a group that they can then virtue signal to and seek validation from.  Signing up for causes that they know nothing about, just so they can belong.     This is not a what a smart person is nor is it what a smart person does. 
All of this is stupid.  And stupid is, as stupid does.   When you consider how prideful arrogance feeds ignorance and ignorance props up arrogance.   Yeah, most refuse to admit that these things are literally what keep your scope of understanding quite narrow and cause you to be so uninformed and out of touch, that you have no authentic, authoritative perspective on anything.  Wisdom never accrues and stupid is again, as stupid does.     People like this, don't think or believe they are actually like this and often times are vicious hypocrites about nearly everything they say, think and do. 
People who have great memories can become great students and earn degrees because they can recall and regurgitate the data.  But that doesn't mean they are smart.   Doctors, without humility, are usually so prideful that their arrogance is what keeps them ignorant and their ignorance keeps them arrogant.  And arrogance is a form of stupidity.    
It is no wonder you think this....  After all, the evidence points to this posted opinion as demonstrably true. >

I'm going to play Devil's Advocate as no one else is seemingly bringing this up. It could just be that you're the dumb one with an inability to accept this and a general disdain for the highly educated, so need to think you're at least above in what you personally define as "street smarts." 
Anecdotally I have definitely met people with this issue, who generally disdain people with great educations and accomplishments and will dismiss any advice from them because "they don't know how the world works." Only to ignore evidence and reason and fuck themselves over for "commom sense."  People who claim to be world wise but refuse to be educated about it or listen to contrary opinions, only going off personal bias and tradition. I'm thinking it's possible it could be the case here.
"They learn from books, not from the world" despite that you both exist in the same environment and they have to navigate through it same as you. With the addition to a Doctor having to survive all manner of cases and diseases and highly stressful life-or-death emergencies with insane hours and little sleep before becoming fully fledged practicioners. So definitely not just good at learning through textbooks, as if that's anything to be flippant about anyway. That strikes me as disdain towards education itself.
Medical science is just that, a science. It's reason and recognizing biases, hypothesis, experimentation, adapting beliefs with the introduction of new and old evidence. Anyone who can meet multiple people who dedicate their lives to such a scientific mind and find not just a few, but the overwhelming majority of them are exceptionally dumb, as improbable as that should be, might want to take a step back. Like the saying goes, if you smell shit everywhere you go, check your shoes. >

I’ve never met a dumb doctor, but the MEANEST people are doctors is what I say. They have a real superiority complex and are the most two faced people ever. I once shadowed a doctor and his PA and his patients told me how much they loved him, and the moment we’d leave the room, one of them would make a comment on how insufferable or stupid the patient was. Some of it I understood, but some just felt truly mean spirited. :/ >

This reminds me of a good saying from a friend to impart the idea that you really need to find a "good" doctor, not just a doctor:
Q:  What is the special name given to the person who barely gets through med school and finishes is absolutely last place?
A:  Doctor >

I love that i originally heard this saying as encouragement for someone to graduate not as perfect as possible but now it seems the meaning changes to saying that some doctors sucks. >

I heard this a long time ago and I think there is some Merit to it
“The smartest poor kid probably will not graduate college while the dumbest rich kid will” >

I was just thinking this yesterday, both MDs and PhDs. There may be a high correlation between intelligence and doctorates but it's not a guarantee. For many they're just good at memorizing things, not being rational. >


For many they're just good at memorizing things

that is beyond ridiculous. >

As somebody who is in medical school, yes - I have a few classmates that seem legitimately dumb enough for me to ask myself "how did you even get into medical school?"
But at the same time, for every one of these 'dumb' med students, there are probably ten bona fide wizards in my class. I consider myself a relatively smart person, but the intelligence of some of these people is truly amazing. >

Somebody’s mad that the doctor told them to eat less😬 >

I'm sure you're so super duper smart OP ✨ >

Weirdly defence response. 
I have to think I'm "super duper" smart to make this observation? >

Calling people dumb is more of a generic insult when someone gets upset. A doctor knows a useful skill that people want and are willing to pay for. Better metric than everyone sophistically telling themselves how much smarter they are than everyone else. >

My brothers wife is a doctor
We were all together one year for Christmas, decided to go out to dinner a few nights before Christmas
Looking for restaurants I suggest a Thai place. With a straight face she says
"I dont like indian food, I mean, not that kind of indian because they dont have cuisine, but the other kind of indian food"
​
......what? >

Some of them just stick to a text book and don't realize that text books are not people and that people have very, very complex things that may or may not fit into their standard text book definition of a condition or whatever. And it isn't just for primary care providers, ER/urgent care, that goes for specialists as well. >

I mean being a doctor doesn’t automatically determine intelligence. 
If anything doctors have better disciplinary intelligence. In reality most people could become doctors if they actually applied themselves. It just takes a ton of commitment and discipline to do so. 
This can be said about the entire educational system. It is not built for naturally intelligent people. It rewards obedience over intelligence. How else would corporate America want it? >

I agree but ill counter that prestige (and intelligence) often leads to arrogance and arrogance ultimately leads to ignorance. It isnt that they are dumb. You do have to be pretty smart to go through the schooling for it. Its more that someone who believes they are always right and cant tolerate any challenge to their ego is capable of some profoundly stupid behavior. >

Honestly I think you hit the nail on the head. >

Some go through school and then suck as doctors. They don't update their knowledge, give lazy prescriptions and do a bad job overall. 
I always questions my doctors with second opinions and if i can, research. And I'm not changing that; last time I did, the doctor realized they had given me the wrong antibiotic. The fucking. Wrong. Antibiotic. 
It would've worsen my condition. 
That, after arguing with me on how they couldn't possibly be wrong and basically telling me i was conceited for questioning them. 
I reported them anyway after that. >

This is a very common thing with specialists.
They have a ton of knowledge in one specific area.  So they think they have general intelligence about everything.
Ben Carson is the perfect example.. dude was one of the best Neurosurgeon in the world. Dude became a national joke. >

Anthony Fauci is a great example >

This an opinion that dumb, unsuccessful, resentful, or bitter people have to make themselves feel better. >

Doctors are not researchers and most people looking for a diagnosis are really in need of a researcher. Doctors will always initially conclude you are suffering from the most common ailment with overlapping symptoms even in the face of evidence that the "shoe doesn't completely fit" . A medical researcher will be more inclined to really figure it out.
Problem is that it's very tough to find a doctor with the medical researcher mindset and all doctors are hamstrung by the current medical system which prevents or at least discourages "unnecessary testing" which is actually quite necessary in many cases. >

Lol, this is total bullshit. >

How are they the dumbest people you've met OP? >

I agree with this completely. One doctor has told me things I can verifiably check on google to prove are false. Also, in the States, therapists for children/teens are fucking useless. Always side with the parent no matter what, and instead of trying to tackle the problem, they try to dodge and forget about it. >

I dated a soon to be doctor for 4 years. She was super book smart but common sense things or anything that required saying no to, she shied away. Anything that may be seen as confrontational or even sticking up for herself, she'd cower. I'm surprised she didn't send money to any fake Saudi prince in exchange for the inheritance. >

I've worked with doctors in varying roles my whole career since graduating college. I can confirm that like the rest of the population, there are very dumb doctors. This includes MDs, PhDs (researchers), and combination MD/PhDs. 
One is the truest form of book smart. They are very intelligent/successful in their clinical/research focus but don't know how to perform basic functions of their job. No matter how many times you explain a basic tasks or process, they can't wrap their head around it no matter hard they try. Don't even ask them to try and figure it out on their own - which isn't the worst, but can be at odds to their problem solving capabilities in their specialty. 
I have often heard: "That's why they need assistants (MAs, AAs)! They are very focused on their practice/research." To an extent I understand - specifically when it comes to administrative/regulatory processes. That's a job by itself. I am also always happy to educate/remind people how to do things (it shows me that they are trying). But having to repeat myself on common knowledge/basic of basic things, it takes time away from doing my job, which affects their work. In those cases, some kind of understanding is achieved where I just take care of whatever thing they struggle with since it's just easier that way. 
The next (and more frustrating) is the willfully/arrogantly dumb. Because they are MDs/PhDs, they are automatically better than other people. As such, they shouldn't HAVE to learn/know common sense things because of their education. This is annoying, but I'd rather just accept that they won't do it so I can fit it into my workload and move forward. But this mentality can go even further... 
They are willfully ignorant and refuse to do tasks "below their pay grade," they are simultaneously experts in those very things. But when you point out their gap in knowledge, they fall back on their willful ignorance or refuse to accept that they don't know it all. These types burn through assistants due to their lack of humility and empathy. Then they wonder why they have such high turnover. 
All of that said, I have worked with many amazing doctors who are well rounded - intelligent in their field, very independent when it comes to administrative tasks, recognize when they are out of their depth, and appreciative of the support they receive. But I think that is indicative of their overall personalities. >

Are you a nurse? >

Literally same question I asked hahahahahaha!!!! It’s usually angry nurses who make this claim. ALL the time >

They are also some of the biggest assholes. They rely on their nurses to do most of their work in the office, then they expect the outside world to also cater to them. 
From my experience most doctors are pompous dickheads who think they are better than anyone else. One time I met a doctor who was upset that he couldn’t have the word “doctor” in his legal name on his paperwork. >

This reminds me of that Jubilee video where some folks were told to rank each other by IQ just from seeing their physical appearance and talking about their backgrounds. One of the people there was a woman who had a PhD and worked in a cancer lab, and she bragged about being the smartest one there and had this pseudo intellectual guise for the entire video. At the end they took IQ tests and she ended up scoring the lowest. There is too much status associated with the medical industry, people are becoming doctors just for the money and prestige rather than actual concern for people’s health.