>

oh in that case it's merits as an EV maker are garbage.  other companies are doing it better.  teslas are not known for their quality.
Deliveries are the closest approximation of sales disclosed by Tesla. The company reported 405,278 total deliveries for the quarter and 1.31 million total deliveries for the year. The full year numbers represented a record for the Elon Musk-led automaker and growth of 40% in deliveries compared to 2021.
But according to a consensus of analysts’ estimates compiled by FactSet, as of Dec. 31, 2022, Wall Street was expecting Tesla to report around 427,000 deliveries for the final quarter of the year. Estimates updated in December, and included in the FactSet consensus, ranged from 409,000 to 433,000.

So the meat and potatoes is they basically came in 22,000 short of deliveries of expected deliveries. >

In December a load of Analysts expected them to come in low, and suggested a wide spread. They came in lower than that. >

They had to do markdowns due to the tax credits available in 2023.  Why would anyone buy in December when they could buy the same thing for cheaper a few weeks later?  Is anyone actually surprised? >

The weird part is that this is actually Tesla’s strongest quarter so far- they delivered 310,048 cars in Q1, 254,695 cars in Q2 and 343,830 in Q3. But Q2, Q3 and Q4 all fell short of expectations. >

To understand how massively overvalued they were / are as a company, they would have to sell 7x as many cars by 2035 as they do now to justify the valuation.  In other words, they would have to sell ~15% of the worlds cars to be at this valuation, which is down 75% from all time highs.
The entire price was based on Robo Taxi's by 2020 and the reality is they aren't in the top 5 as far as progress towards Fully Self Driving solutions.  They might not even be in the top 10, with the worst case scenario being their path to FSD isn't even viable.
BMW just sold 2x as many cars as Tesla this year and worth 6x less. >

Let me preface this by saying I am not a fan of Musk or a Tesla fan, but does this take into account their Solar panel/roof and powerwall business?
I just did a small search and found:
According to the company, Tesla Energy revenues increased 38.6% year-over-year to $1.117 billion (5.2% of the total revenues), while the cost of revenues stands at $1.013 billion.
Actually I guess that isn't a whole lot of profit for that business, but is there enough potential there to affect valuation? >

Tesla is valued high because it was seeing as a software company who makes cars and other small things, not a car company who makes cars with software and other things. All other car companies can get their battery business up to date and fast considering a lot of governments around the world passed laws to outlaw ICE; even if they can't build nice batteries themselves, they can just setup shop for a company who can do it. Software on the other hand is hard and can't easily be replicated  and not every car manufacturer is able to reach the same level. >

I never understood why Tesla was seen as a software company though. What software do they sell? And they do not have the margins that true software companies have (e.g. Microsoft, Amazon etc), but yet, their market cap valuation was at similar (or higher?) P/Es. >

FSD. The dash is a mini computer that could play games and what not. They actually push out updates to their car software through Wi-Fi. Most all cars have chips and software but they don’t generally get updates, or you’d have to take your car in to a service center. 
Ultimately, outside of FSD, this is all fairly superficial. There was also the musk effect >

Shockingly when your CEO makes himself and your company radioactive to your primary customer base it's a problem. Who would have guessed?... >

It doesnt help that their CEO is a volatile lunatic >

No matter how much alt right nuts love you, you cannot convince them to like alternative energy. >

It's so freaking weird that the guy decides to annoy the sociodemographic group that actually likes his stuff >

Not weird...unlike you, he cares about more than just money.  Not everyone is a materialistic simpleton. >

Every Billionaire is lol
You don't be a Billionaire without being materialistic and without being shackled by ethics >

Generally speaking, perhaps, but there are some exceptions.  And throwing away billions of $s to buy Twitter, and make it less of a propaganda tool for left wing extremists, shows that money isn't everything to the dude. >

The company has been overvalued as some major growth tech stock rather than a car maker. FSD is a bust. Robotaxis aren't going to happen. This is just reality setting in.
You can say that being the head twat helped accelerate that, and you would probably be right, but that's not the crux of the issue. >

Not to mention that the Cybertruck is MIA but all the competition doesn't seem to be having trouble bring an electric truck to market. You can sell all the Model S/X/Y/3s to bankers and office people you want but they are people carriers, most people I know have at least one truck and actually use them for work. It was the market I think they needed to break into the earliest and they missed their shot. That and the cheaper $30k~ segment to introduce your brand to the broader public. Now the heavy hitters finally woke up and are starting to offer cheaper EV options to cut into the margins like the Equinox EV coming out. A vehicle that will definitely see families owning a GM as their first electric car, not a Tesla. >

Yeah. I used to drive a Tacoma. I don’t need a truck every day but when I need a truck, I need a truck. Taco got totaled and I’ve decided to wait to replace it with an electric truck. Looks like Ford AND Chevy will have options for me before Tesla. 
Unless I win the lotto— then I’ll get a Rivian. >

Unless you win the lotto and bail out rivian to have a chance to then buy a rivian >

They in trouble? I’m seeing their trucks more and more in my neighborhood. They just got a massive deal providing the new Amazon vans so I think they’ll be ok. >

I regularly see a Rivian Amazon van delivering around my neighborhood. Just started seeing it a couple weeks ago and now it is around all the time. >

I’ve only seen them on Doug Demuro’s YT channel. I have seen an odd looking electric FedEx van lately though. >

Definitely seen the electric FedEx vehicles as well. It's nice being able to run and not breathe in exhaust. >

Now hear me out....Somehow, I don't think deliveries are the only problem here. >

Biggest problem is definitely FSD. States and even countries are suing to get the term removed cause it’s basically all beta technology. And the constant tweet promises of it being fully available are just growing tired. The feature also wipes when you sell the car, even further devaluing it when you drive off the lot. If they offered refunds for the feature I think consumer trust would bounce back a little. >

What if FSD was just a marketing selling point/value add instead of a certifiable, guaranteed implementation into society in the foreseeable future.
Those baited on the FSD are already on the hook if they bought to car, so this could be seen as a win for TSLA.
Just a thought… >

What ifs are great but they gave actual promises. What is ‘seen as a win for Tesla’ is litigious, and it’s being argued in court for fraud. I’m a model 3 owner with ESD so I’m not coming in as a hater, just stating the facts. >

Hmm maybe the CEO should stop driving away the entire user base and spending all of his time being a Twitter troll. >

I've owned two PHEV and plan to buy a full EV in the next year or so. I am 100% Tesla's target demographic but I will never buy one of their cars. Tesla isn't the only game in town anymore. They may have helped spark the EV segment but they don't own it. I plan on voting with my wallet against that douche nozzle's toxic market manipulating ass. Fuck that clown. >

Their demographic has now may have changed to right wing white people with confederate flags.
What a weird timeline. >

The problem is that those people still aren't going to buy EVs until they absolutely have to because internal combustion is phased out years in the future. >

If I was a Tesla investor, I would be so pissed off at Elon. His numbskullery and misguided adventurism has cost investors billions. If he had a shred of decency, he would immediately resign as CEO of both Tesla and Twitter. These are two important companies that we all have an interest in seeing succeed. But the man's ego won't allow for that. He'll just keep driving both businesses into the ground. >

Stock price is up 5x since 1/1/2020
While I hate musk, investors should have taken pause investing in a car company worth more than all other car companies combined while having ~2% of the worlds car market share >

Tesla, Rivian, Lucid, etc, are valued as EV companies.  Gas car companies are deep in debt and most of them aren't going to make the transition without going bankrupt.  Tesla is sitting on a pile of cash.  Those others aren't as lucky.  BYD (China) will probably remain the main competition, as they get into more markets outside of China. >

I have serious doubts that the majority of the world will buy Chinese cars in the current geopolitical landscape, but maybe I am way off base.  The way people are reacting to Musk going full Right Winger makes me believe I am not wrong there, though.
Maybe a few wont make it over, but VW, Hyundai, Ford, Toyota, Honda, they are already there with mature competition and they aren't about to go out of business.  I'm not going to look iinto more car companies but I suspect you are wrong about that. >

Chinese automakers are so confident on international demand for their EVs that they are literally spending billions of dollars just on transport ships to ensure they have a way to send their cars out to the rest of the world.
Especially BYD, who isn't, messing, about. >

Its going to be worse next year.
Does Musk think conservatives will rush to buy his electric vehicle and give up their oversized gas guzzing pickup trucks?
It was bad this year, it will be awful next year. >

Not while Chevy and Ford have electric trucks of their own. >

They don't have volume >

How's Tesla's electric truck volume looking? >

It will be high volume before ford's. Why? Tesla has external battery supply and battery manufacturing onsite next to the truck assembly line. >

Best I can find the current Market Cap of Tesla is $338,73B. Which I think probably means that Tesla is currently worth less overall than the stock that Musk had in Tesla was worth at it's peak.
The real question now is whether the stock will drop all the way back to the value of about $20 it had before 2020. >

Telsa is overvalued and has been for a while. I wouldn't see it worth investing into until the other top automobile manufacturers are in the same ballpark of market value because honestly, tesla doesn't hold exclusive rights to all future electric car sells, and therefore, it shouldn't be valued as if it does. 
I could see tesla being used a short term dice roll after a huge drop in value, but I can't think of a dumber place to invest long term right now. >

Tesla are still valued at almost twice Toyota which is insane >

Yep, bottom is a long way off. >

Alternative headline:

Tesla shares tumble more than 12% following Elon Musk tweeting crazy shit >

Plus knock-on effect of everyone who maybe would have considered a Tesla now firmly resolving to buy something with less arsehole association. >

"Elon Musk gets caught trying to pay for sex in exchange for a horse goes full-republican. Begins to alienate the normal EV-buying demographic. Also utilizes Tesla shares as Twitter collateral." >

softened demand in all markets, not just China, is suspect. Inflation woes, bad publicity, u stable leadership all create uncertainty. Moreover, competition is about to heat up from a variety of comparable car makers with more steady reliability in terms of production quality and product support. why buy a Tesla now. Period. >

Tesla is on track to be the blackberry of EVs. >

Tell you what. That's a good one. >

Suck it you Apartheid loving sociopath! >

mean Wario laugh from Mario Kart 64 >

The first time I heard that laugh was on that level with the train. Wario passed me right before some other kart got hit by the train. At first I thought he was laughing at the other kart, not me. >

Down another 12 percent … from a beyond ridiculous bubble high.  The problem is investors instead of cars, but that doesn’t mean it’s wrong that it’s coming back to earth now. >

Elon must be tired of all this winning >

Tesla = 2 Toyota in valuation now. Tesla is not the largest and reliable car company. Tesla is not the only one with electric. Tesla can be valued more if they have aced auto pilot perfectly and patent it. And no one is near that level, assuming… then Tesla can be bigger than Toyota. Else they are probably less than half of toyota >

I believe electric vehicles are the future.
I just don't want to buy a $100k Electric Red Hat.
There are plenty of other more reliable options.
Maybe the market for Teslas heavily overlaps with the alt right crowd.  In which case it'll do fine.  But I wonder how  many potential EV buyers want to ne driving around an electric red hat. >

Stop. My schadenfreude boner couldn't possibly get any more erect. >

Tesla stock was holding around $121/share for the past few days. 
Today it dropped to $108.
🔥 🔥 🔥 
1 year ago it was $399/share
Noice >

elon musk isnt exactly the ceo that inspires stability and growth in recent months. >

How can schadenfreude be bad when it feels this good? >

And they'll continue to drop, drop and drop with Musk as CEO. >

I guess not enough Tesla employees followed Musk’s request to help deliver vehicles during their holiday break >

I mean, at this point Tesla isn’t the only game in town and the legacy auto companies are catching up and fast, much less beating Elon and his keynote company to the punch on a budget model EV.
They’ve been doing this a long time, and Muskrat’s alleged genius will only go so far in an industry that knows how to outproduce him.
Look up the Doris Motor Company or Moon Cars. Two companies that only produced a few hundred thousand overly expensive cars when Ford was moving millions of Model Ts in the same year.
Ford’s still around. Doris and Moon aren’t >

They don't have proper charging or supply. They have a long way to go >

A couple of years ago, if I had the funds, I could see myself buying a Tesla. However, I always knew about their shoddy assembly and craftsmanship, but was ok with riding the coattails of the early adopters. Fast forward to today, and the sloppiness of the build still exists, autopilot doesn’t seem to be “that” amazing, and other - more quality - manufacturers are getting into the game. Musk revealing to all that he is a huge twat is just the final but kind of inconsequential straw. I don’t see a Tesla in my future - ever. >

It's a 60-$100k+ electric red hat at this point.  Certainly right for some people.  Not sure how big that market is though. >

I’m more curious about the next quarter. You have to order these things so far in advance, a lot of these buyers weren’t aware of Elons stupid shit till the Twitter stuff. 
Since we’ll have to wait a few months for the inevitable (I’m thinking 40% decline in deliveries), I’d just like to see # of orders placed since his daily Twitter shenanigans (2 months) compared to orders placed the 2 months prior … or just the avg # of orders over several 2 month periods. >

Can't wait till next year, Fiat 500e, LET'S GOOOO!! >

Tesla employees are working in hostile condition so eventually something will give and the blame point to CEO. >

2023 starting out really good. >

Musk blew it when tesla was at an all time high by not buying GM or another automaker with that stock value. Instead he frittered the opportunity away and then bought Twitter 😂
The guy is no genius. >

Does this benefit short-sellers? I recall a number of events that were sort of connected. I recall Elon angrily tweeting about short sellers, tweeting to manipulate Tesla stock process, then angrily tweeting when the SEC came down on him for market manipulation. 
Are we about to see another round of angry tweets aimed at short sellers? >

Short sellers have made Billions over the last couple months. >

Tsla stock may have been the biggest single asset bubble that humanity has ever known. 
it is down like 80% from the peak. crazy thing is, it can fall another 80% and shit would be still over valued. >

I smell a penny stock...can't wait. >

I don't know about penny. It's definitely overvalued still. But it has hard assets. And still sells genuine product. >

To who? Liberals who hate Elon musk? Conservatives who hate EVs? He has no customer base. >

People who want a Tesla based on it’s merits as an EV and aren’t necessarily concerned with what the CEO said last week?
They also have other revenue streams, granted their vehicles are the largest stream of revenue by a wide margin currently.