>

One of my good friends was in an accident with a cop car flying through an intersection when he was a kid. His friend was killed in the accident.
A childhood friend of mine, Jose Malacara, was killed in a similar incident a few years ago in San Marcos, CA. Cop claimed he was chasing a drunk driver he saw in oncoming lane. He was speeding without his emergency lights on. Jose was one of the sweetest people I’ve ever met. I miss him a lot. The cop should have got manslaughter at the very least. He made a big mistake and unintentionally killed my friend. >

This happened to Jessica and Kelli Uhl in 2007 outside St Louis.  Trooper was doing 120 mph.  They were 13 and 17. >

Surely shit like this happening would be enough for any cop to abstain from chases.
How do you enter the force, hear stories like this, and then participate in a chase? >

Because if you read the thing you're replying to, the police get away with a slap on the wrist when they kill innocent people in high speed chases. >

I'm saying as an individual how could you knowing what has happened in the past
I understand punishment is not enough of a deterrent. I'm aghast that previous tragedies are not. >

Cops kill innocent people all the time and respond with empty platitudes, excuses, or even vilifying the victim. I’m not sure why you think accidental deaths would weigh heavier on their conscience just because it was with a car instead of a gun. Without external punishment, the culture of modern policing will ensure there is never accountability for this sort of thing. >

Jesus maybe because the cops that are intentionally killing people probably don't have much of a conscience to begin with?
Punishment is not the only thing stopping most people from killing others. Most have morals. >

So we shouldn’t have punishments for crimes? Because morals are enough to keep everyone in line? Is that really what you’re saying? >

Yeah sure. That's what I'm saying why not. >

I said “cops need to be punished for crimes or they’ll keep doing them” and you replied with “punishments aren’t what keep people from committing crimes.” So it sounds an awful damn lot like you think cops don’t need to be punished for crimes. Unless you think cops are some special class of people that should be given special privileges to commit crimes without consequence, that sounds to me like you think punishment for crimes is unnecessary.
If you’re saying something else, anything else really, then I’m not sure why you felt the need to disagree with my simple argument that lack of punishment leads to increased crime rates. >

You are reading way too much into what I wrote
Every human had different reactions to things, I'm just feeling shocked myself as I'm likening entering the force and hearing about these tragedies to say - when you're in highschool and a drunk drivers parent comes and talks to you.
I'm saying often emotional pain is much worse than the punishment and people who the punishment is not enough to put off committing a crime are unlikely to feel that emotional pain
But you've already decided I'm some cop lover who thinks they should run free. Not sure why you wanna argue this with me when almost everyone agrees here that a shit thing happened.
I never said no punishment should be given. You out words in my mouth to fit your agenda. Nice rant. >

This is pure negligence, even with lights and siren going an emergency vehicle must still slow down to cross the intersection so that other traffic can be made aware of the vehicle and either stop or get out of the way. >

At 86mph, he was rapidly outrunning his siren. They were completely useless in warning cars heading into the intersection and any good cop would know that. He absolutely should end up in jail for this. >

Not arguing, just curious what is the speed required to outrun a siren?
Obviously ona city street with building blocking noise it would be even lower but I’m a bit curious at what speed is the siren more just a formality as no one has time to react anyways >

We’ve always been told 120kmh (75ish mph) is the upper limit. Though that’s in an open area and I’m sure surroundings and buildings/etc lower that number too. I know we’ve surprised people at much lower speeds than that and our sirens are louder and our trucks are bigger and redder. >

Also probably assuming windows open of any other car.
I'm pretty good at hearing sirens, but it is pretty hard to notice while driving 35-45mph with windows up and the radio at a normal level. They can catch you off guard pretty quick. In those scenarios, I usually see their lights before I hear their siren.
I'm a pretty big fan of the rumbler because of these issues. >

Given the preponderance of people with overdone subwoofers, I wonder if that's still effective. >

Oh, it's very different and you feel it in the steering wheel. Unless you've got an insane sub and it's cranked up, you'll notice. >

Right, but I'd just assume it's someone with stupid subs.  Like I do now. >

I've never had someone with such crazy subs rattle my steering lol >


An Addis police officer is facing criminal charges after striking and killing two teenage girls during a high-speed chase of a suspect Saturday, according to District Attorney Tony Clayton.
Officials told WBRZ that officer David Cauthron, 42, was arrested and booked Sunday night on two counts of negligent homicide and one count of negligent injuring. Jail officials said he is being held on a $100,000 bond. He was still jailed as of Monday morning.
Sources told WBRZ that the GPS inside Cauthron's vehicle showed he was going about 86 miles per hour and did not hit his brakes before impact. Witnesses said Cauthron ran a red light and that the light had been red for about 20 seconds when his police unit reached the intersection. 
The police unit struck the victims' car, pushing it into the median of the highway. Two of the occupants, 17-year-old Maggie Dunn and 16-year-old Caroline Gill, were pronounced dead, and a third victim, Dunn's teenage brother, was taken to a hospital in critical condition. Sources said the teens were heading to a store just minutes from home. 
Clayton said the laws surrounding police chases may need to be changed in light of Saturday's crash and his office would pursue all information before deciding if the Addis officer should be charged, according to the news outlet

Hopefully the officer faces charges. They caught the fleeing suspect, too, and he's getting some extra charges for having a hand in this crash. Just a tragic situation for the teens in the car, though.
Edit: this is not the full article text by the way. There's more that I cut out for brevity if you care to read it. >

Seems odd to tack on extra charges to the fleeing criminal when the cop was violating every protocol.
If I'm running away from a bank robbery and a cop just opens fire blindly into a crowd and takes out a bunch of innocents when I'm not even visibly armed that's not "in the course of doing his duty" imo and shouldn't be tied to felony murder for me. >

Because the injuries happened during the commission of a crime.  If you didn't do the crime, those injuries wouldn't have happened, so you can get extra charges applied.  It doesn't mean your hypothetical cop firing into a crowd shouldn't also get charged, just that you have a share in the responsibility for creating a dangerous situation in the first place. >

I understand the concept of felony murder, but it should really only apply in situations where a normal police response risk caused the issue. If a criminal is firing into a crowd and a cop tries to take him out and kills a bystander then yeah, I get it. The risk was weighed against the danger. Charge the dude w/ felony murder.
If the cop hadn't violated policy and driven dangerously then those teens would be alive. The cop isn't supposed to be in a high speed chase so he created the situation himself.
FTA:
"If it involves putting human life in danger, stop the damn pursuit," Clayton said. "It's just not worth the risk."
Sums it up. >

I'm sorry, but I just don't agree here.  Yes, in this situation this cop should absolutely be held responsible for his reckless actions, but the person who committed the crime set the entire situation in motion. 
 It's not like there's a finite amount of consequences that would have to be split between them, nobody should get off "easy".  The original criminal that did the home invasion and stole a car is responsible for the entire situation, the cop is responsible for his part in it. >

There is absolutely not enough info to have that opinion. For all you know, the cop heard about a chase from across town, decided to haul ass through a red light and killed the teens. That is not the initial suspects fault. >

It doesn't matter.  Here's an idea, don't pull a home invasion, steal a car, and run from the police if you're concerned about picking up additional charges if someone else gets hurt.  If the initial suspect did in fact commit the crime, then yes, it's absolutely their fault since the chase wouldn't be happening if they didn't commit the crime, and the teens would be sitting in school right now complaining about their homework. >

If the initial suspect did, in fact commit the crime, it’s still not their fault. Police are in control of their behavior, not the suspect. You can feel like it’s ok, but if you are going to spread the blame that far, is it really the suspects fault? I mean, society didn’t provide them with mental health services or appropriate wages. Wasn’t it taxpayers that paid for the police cruiser that killed these kids? If tax payers had gone on tax strike, the police wouldn’t have that car and those kids would still be alive. >

Ad absurdum as defense, nice.
Everything you mentioned is a) indirect, and b) not a criminal act.  "Society" is not criminally responsible for not providing mental health or "appropriate" wages (and you're making the assumption here with no basis that either of these come into play in the first place).  Taxpayers are not committing a criminal act by paying their taxes.  Committing a home invasion, stealing a car, and fleeing from police are all criminal acts though.  If this guy did not do any of those things, these teenagers would still be alive, that is a simple fact.  He made a choice to commit a crime, and that choice created a situation that killed them that would not have otherwise existed.  I won't shed a tear if they get the book thrown at them, whatever the consequences they're not enough. >

Well, that proves my point. “ whatever the consequences they're not enough” so you are just getting off on punishment. If the cop hadn’t ran a red light at 86mph, those kids wouldn’t be killed either. Someone growing weed illegally isn’t a good reason to burn down a building with people inside. The pot growers would not be the murderers, even though, if they weren’t committing a felony, that buildings and its inhabitants would be fine. Reductio ad absurdum is actually a valid logical method, pointing it out isn’t some sick burn, or something. >

Very sad and always bad when innocent ppl get hurt.
I believe there are very few high speed chases that are actually warranted. Risking life and limb of the officer and general public is not necessary for a drug stop or speeding stop.  With today's technology, radio communications and traffic cams, etc, there has to be a better way to make arrests than a high speed chase, which seems to often end in a tragedy. >

Literally. If they don’t flee the country they can be found. 
E.g. A man stabbed four teens to death and was found several hundred miles away across state lines several weeks after allegedly committing the crime.  
We need to overhaul the entire policing methodology for many precincts in this country. >

really underselling the distance with “several hundred”. It was over 2,500 miles away by roads >

yes i know, NYC to LA is 2,800 miles
however Monroe County, PA is less than 90 miles from NYC and Moscow, Idaho is nearly the same Longitude as LA.
all in all it comes to 2,549 miles, just put it in google maps lmao >

I was t-boned and had my car totaled by a cop who ran a red light responding to a chase. Not so much as an apology, just an ambulance ride and a sub-replacement  payout from insurance.