>

There are other countries existing in the world beside US
The world's most valuable automaker delivered 405,278 vehicles in the last three months of the year, compared with Wall Street expectations of 431,117 vehicles, according to Refinitiv data. >

Turns out appealing to righties who probably can't afford your cars isn't a smart idea. >

40% company growth is a win no matter what someone predicted >

Found the bagholder >

I'm always amused by the muskrat Elon fanboys who are still holding their Tesla stock expecting it to go back up any day now, not realizing this is almost surely just the start of its collapse as the other big car makers keep flooding the market with quality EVs. >

Flooding the market?
No one else has broken a million EVs, let alone 500k in a year,  hell I dont think anyone outside China has hit 250k in a year.
“Flooding” is a stretch >

Tesla's percentage of EVs sold is just going to go down as things progress. As others have said, their situation is very comparable to Netflix, in that they had a tremendous advantage being the first to market and then dominating that market for a while, but as everyone else introduced quality competing products, their advantage disappeared. Tesla's are not as well made as the EVs that their competitors are producing, and with Elon himself tainting the brand I just see Tesla going down until they are possibly acquired by one of their competitors. Their best days are almost surely behind them. If you're unlucky enough to still be holding Tesla stock, I'd get out of it immediately before it drops another 70%. >

Tesla’s US market share is down to 61% from 79% two years ago, and is rapidly dropping.  Their market share is mostly because Ford, GM, Kia, Hyundai etc. simply can’t produce enough vehicles to meet demand.
In China, Tesla has a 7.7% market share of plug-ins.  Unlike the U.S., there are many competitors producing in volume. BYD alone sold 230,000 plug-ins in November, which is more than any company in the US aside from Tesla will sell in 2022.  In contrast, Tesla sold 100,000 cars in the same month. 
China sold 625,000 EVs in November, representing 35% of all new car sales (25% BEV, 10% PHEV). In the U.S., EV market share just broke 6%. Due to a lack of supply, EVs have an ASP in the US over $60,000.  In contrast, there are many affordable EVs in China.  They’re also cheaper in Europe as folks are OK driving smaller cars with a shorter range.  The U.S. market is still in its infancy.  The best-selling non-Tesla BEV, the Ford Mach-E only sold 28,000 vehicles in the first 9 months of 2022.  In the same period, Tesla sold 191K Y’a and 156K 3s.  Ford is completely supply-constrained on EVs, and was selling vehicles for $10-20k above MSRP at one point.  It’s clear that there’s a demand for non-Tesla options, but there just aren’t enough produced.
While 30% of all cars sold in China were plug-ins in 2022, a massive growth over 2021, Tesla continues to lose share, and are actually cutting production 20% in their Shanghai plant. I think China is really an indicator of Tesla’s future globally. >

There are noticeable shifts in the EV market. 
Over the last year, I’ve been seeing more and more non-Tesla EVs on the road. Rivian, given the Amazon connection, isn’t that surprising as I’m in Seattle. 
But the Hyundai Ioniq is popping up everywhere in my neighborhood. Polestars are also becoming more common. I’m also seeing so many Subaru Crosstrek Hybrids and Prius Primes. 
Two years ago, it was all Teslas. But true competition is finally here and it’s going to be a brutally tough next few years as the EV market becomes more saturated with choice. In many ways, Tesla is facing the same trajectory as Netflix. Huge success as a first mover with massive growth expectations but then crushing reality as the core differentiator of your business becomes commonplace. >

You are completely correct. Once competition is introduced, you have a bunch of whiny first movers. Don't like competition, then fold and die as a company. If you can't innovate past your new competition, or at least keep up, well, you're a dinosaur of a company and will be left behind to flounder. >

And the current Tesla body style looks dated. A 2007 Mazda-inspired looking car isn't appealing. >

its an EV. Body styles cant really improve unless you figure out how to make your fresh new look have a lower drag coefficent. The rounder the better, but that sacrifices cabin space which people will not like, or you sacrifice drag CF but then range goes down. You might enjoy the Mach-E, but its got a .28 vs a .23. Like the looks of that VW ID.4? Well you are back to that .28
Go the other direction and you end up with the best in the world, which is the Mercedes EQS at .20. But have fun and get drunk one day and look at it compared to a model 3, they look the same with the EQS just a bit sleeker. >

We ended up getting the eMustang. So far so good, higher drag co-efficient notwithstanding!
Will do as you demand and have a few drinks now. >

I bet he doesn't know about the EV challenger, either ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) >

Yeah, tell me about cars that did not exist in 2019 when i got my Tesla. Right now there's not even a release date on that thing other than "maybe 2024 with full release in 2025". Car is 6 years too late, the tesla replaced a Challenger.
That said, at this point, that car is supposed to have a fake exhaust system so it can sound like a HEMI, and a transmission so you can hear it "Shift". They better offer deletes for that that make it cheaper, cause im not 70. Shit is like the Shaker hoods that im pretty sure if you took the average age of a challenger owner without that and with that, you can fit a whole generation in there :P
Have a quiet non transmission needing version with dodges "I go fast in a straight line" power, and it would possibly be a good replacement for the tesla later on, i loved my challenger. >

I suspect the Tesla/Musk story will be a case for business classes for years to come. How can one company in an industry be "worth" more than all the others combined? The myth that it can vanquish all the others? The myth that all the others have no tools to combat the upstart? >

It's hype. Large institutional investors are/were riding that hype. So much so that so many people have been burned attempting to short Tesla that I doubt anyone tried now that it cratered 65%. But it's also hype and folly to expect EV's to have a huge market share in the near future. They're expensive and not enough public charging stations. There needs to be a backlash against gadgeting everything until it's too expensive and just deliver a bare bones car. >

You don't need public charging stations as much as gas stations
You can charge at home. So public chargers would only be needed for people who can't charge at home and for longer trips. >

So that would only be a problem for people in the biggest cities. 
Ya that’s not a demographic who has money and cares about environmental purchase or atleast the optics of it. >

Do the electric cars from Hyundai, Audi, Ford, Kia etc. have the same issues as Tesla cars? >

Depends on the issues. 
Overall, they are made better. Better fit and finish. Better ergonomics. And they have new body styles (Tesla is sort of stuck on this...) You can also get local service. 
Issues with range, cold weather, etc are shared by all EVs. >


able to go +200 miles on one charge? How often do you do that?

I assume you don't live in the midwest or southwest of the US >

Even if you live in the Midwest: are you driving 75 miles to a restaurant or job (where I guess you have no power?) and then driving anywhere but home ?
Like 200 miles is a stupid amount of driving for one day.  Go home and charge. If you drive more than that in one day you are no longer commuting places, you are basically a professional driver. >

They're not in the midwest, but my relatives have to drive 200+ miles to the nearest city at least once a week for non-work related reasons. The number of people in their community who make that drive for shopping or to access various services is very, very high.
I don't think you've really considered the perspective of rural people. And I say this as someone who hates rural people and never defends them. >

You are talking about people who represent almost 5% of US drivers and trips that represent bulk shopping beat done with a bulkier vehicle anyway - the truck they use today can continue making those trips, last 20 extra years, and an EV would handle all daily driving.
It takes THREE HOURS to drive 200 miles. I’ve never, ever gone on a six hour round trip grocery shop, but I’m pretty sure, If I had to… weekly? Id have a plan for charging my car. Also what, are they spending the night in that Costco? >


You are talking about people who represent almost 5% of US drivers and trips that represent bulk shopping beat done with a bulkier vehicle anyway 

You're talking about them, too. Do you think that because they're 5% you don't need to learn anything about them before you talk about them? Also, I never said bulk shopping. That's just one of many assumptions you make.


the truck they use today can continue making those trips, last 20 extra years, and an EV would handle all daily driving.


Not sure why you assume their vehicle is a truck or they can afford multiple vehicles. The more you talk about them, the more obvious it is you're just basing this on stereotypes you have in your head.

It takes THREE HOURS to drive 200 miles. I’ve never, ever gone on a six hour round trip grocery shop, 

And you talk like someone who can't understand there are people out their who aren't you.

but I’m pretty sure, If I had to… weekly? Id have a plan for charging my car. 

What would your plan be as you try to get to the city, get your stuff done, and leave as soon as possible?

Also what, are they spending the night in that Costco?

I'm not even sure what this means. Are you so unprepared to think about people who aren't like you that you can only imagine them in cartoonish scenarios?
Also, let's be clear: I said shopping and access to various services. You're imagining a grocery trip because that's all you know.
(EDIT: Let me correct one thing that I wrote up badly in my first reply to you. The city is not 200+ miles away, but they travel 200+ miles when they go to the city and then return.) >

I see a decline in 2023 and a bigger decline in 2024.  Lots of EV drivers now hate Musk, and his image as a genius is gone forever.  Plus. Other companies are going to be selling more and more very soon.   Telsa also has terrible ratings. Great tech, awful cars. >

"Great tech" - like what? I was recently comparing a Mercedes E-class (that is about to be replaced by a new model in mid-2023) with Model Y and Tesla lacks a lot of tech.

I see a decline in 2023 and a bigger decline in 2024

Their 2022Q4 deliveries missed investor expectations by ~5% and missed Elon's predictions from October by over 10%. And their orders backlog is shrinking. It will be very hard for them to continue growing. It will be especially hard for them to continue to justify their insane stock valuations. Tesla is below 2% of the total car market, but is priced like it was around ~99% of the total car market. >

The value of used Teslas just crashed as well, which more than anything shows how much demand has cooled. >

I can't wait to see the value of used car's in 10 years and compare EV vs ICE.
It's going to be truly eye opening. >

Why would that be eye opening >

To see how the used car values differ between both of them. IE do you see a steady decline in value of EV's like how ICE are. Or is it more of massive dips after certain points. >

If the Nissan Leaf or BMW i3 are anything to go by, once an updated model with greater range comes out the price on the older ones plummets. >

Something tells me this won’t be happening this year. It would be interesting to see what Tesla’s last quarter numbers show >

It won't, it will be bigger.  Cybertruck has 1 million preorders and they are getting ready to build them right now in Austin. >

It’s so weird. Tesla does well but then people complain about the cost of EVs and being “forced” to buy them. Obviously there is increasing demand for EVs. >

For those that only read the headline, 1.31 million is below their estimated production. >

Interesting nuance to the headline.
Tesla failed to deliver projected numbers and their share prices has tanked by 65% in 2022.
Their market share is heavily under attack from more established brands such as Ford as well as other challengers.
Suspect they will continue to lose ground in 2023. >

I dislike Elon as much as the next average Redditor here, and I’m a Tesla owner from before his meltdown/true color exposure/whatever we want to call it came about. I’ve owned EVs; Teslas (3, X, and Y) and Kia (EV6). Have driven others as well, but mine I’ve put to the test as much as a daily driver with occasional out of town trips (3-5hrs long) can do. 
As bad as their build quality is, today nothing beats the peace of mind the Supercharger network brings. 3rd party EV charging stations have always been, in my experience, issue-prone; Whether they don’t charge at the advertised rate, having the faster charging stations be used by cars that won’t take advantage of them even when their best options are open for them to use, and some stations not working altogether. 
Also, love it or hate it, their software system just works. Others are trying to do a little bit too much and they don’t pass my lets-see-if-my-mom-can-figure-it-out test (true test I’ve done with her). 
Don’t get me wrong, I’m fully rooting for more EVs to come out and I can’t wait to see an improvement in charging infrastructure to go get an R1S. >

Hyundai, Kia, Volvo, Polestar, Audi and Porsche already sell much nicer EV’s. Even before Elon’s Twitter theatrics, the market was already getting tired of Tesla’s dated design and unimpressive build quality. Elon picked the worst possible timing to go out of his way to publicly humiliate himself and his companies in front of the world. >


During the fourth quarter, Tesla also offered steep price cuts and other promotions in the U.S., China and elsewhere in order to spur demand, even though doing so could put pressure on its margins.
In a recent e-mail to Tesla staff, Elon Musk asked employees to “volunteer” to deliver as many cars to customers as possible before the end of 2022. In his e-mail, Musk also encouraged employees not to be “bothered” by what he characterized as “stock market craziness.” Shares of Tesla plunged by more than 45% over the last six months.

This is key. They dropped their prices and still fell short of expectations. Elon fan boys can celebrate the headline, but Wall St. knows this falls short of expectations. >

To be honest, analyst expectations have always been weird to me. I remember an Apple quarterly results where they had record profits, record revenue, and record iPhone sales. Yet because they sold 78,1 million iPhones instead of expected 78,9 (it was less than million difference) they were ‘short’ of expectations and stocks dropped by 4%. Seems counter intuitive with record numbers. >

Stock prices/valuations are bonkers. Sure it was a record year, but the price it held (before the news) was that it was going to be an even bigger record year. >

This is what I don't understand about armchair investing. Like, I I have a buddy who is trying to tweak his portfolio to weather the "coming recession". So he figures Costco and Walmart are go-to places for people to get groceries and other household essentials that people still need during a recession, so their stock probably will do well.
But isn't that "analysis" already being done, and much better, by the big brains who do this for a living?  Aren't those considerations already reflected in the Costco and Walmart stock prices? >

Generally yes, but large institutions are trying to maximise their return - Costco and walmark might be safehavens in a recession, but institutions might see more growth potential in other markets for the coming months  before that point.
Your friend is potentially more conservative about returns over the coming month, and "getting it wrong" has a bigger downside for him than an institution that has the capital to hedge its position - your friend could be getting in ahead of the wave, and get a tidy return (by retail investor standards) vs the institutions that see an extra couple of percent in another market in the short term. >

Tesla also has superb battery technology R and D.  In the last months of 2022, it was the leading seller of automobiles in Europe.  Not just EVs, but ALL car types.  What's more... they weren't offering discounts. 
Elon needs to come off his opium high and attend to his core business for Tesla success to continue. >

I used to think Teslas were cool, but Elon Musk himself has ensured that I will never buy a Tesla. 
Even if I had tons of money to throw away I would purposefully spend it on everything except a Tesla. >

I'm actively looking to buy an EV in the next month or two, and I'm not even considering a Tesla. The company is just too flighty and inconsistent for me to drop that much money on a car I'll probably only drive a few thousand miles a year, anyway. >

A big part of this is the wait times for the newer and better ev’s being released by other more reputable brands.
A lot of people dont want to wait, so Tesla sells you on their ability to ship you their car pretty quickly.
Once Ev’s from other brands become more readily available, Tesla will lose that advantage. >

To be honest, people have been saying this for the past 8 years.. ‘Tesla-killer this, Tesla-killer that’. Yet they are still here selling every car they make. >

The thing is every manufacturer is selling out on every car they make.  Cars in general and specially EV’s are in demand.  It just happens that Tesla at the moment has a bigger stock available and ready to ship. >

You are speaking so confidently yet are so incorrect.
The average Model Y buyer in the US waited 175 days in Q2 2022. The average Model 3 buyer waited 89 days.
They do produce cars faster than the rest of the industry combined (they account for 2/3 of EV sales) but you still have to wait because the demand is far higher than production can match. >

At the cost of quality control >

Whatever.  Brand is ruined.  Might as well name it Corona Virus since Elon basically wiped his ass all over it.    Unless he can get Trump's army of ignorant toothless hillbillies to start buying his cars (goodluck) then we can expect sales and quality to steadily go down until bankruptcy. >

On what planet is a 40% yearly growth “ruined”? The majority of people buying teslas don’t give a shit who the ceo is. I don’t own one, but I got to drive one and I was immediately sold and I fully plan to get one, despite Elon going off the deep end. >

Just wait. He has owned twitter like 3 month and lost 200 billion dollars.   Brand is everything and as long as Elon keeps up his fucking nonsense with his Qanon MAGA brain dead bullshit,  consumers are going to stay away lest they be associated with the lunatic fringe. >

That and as other manufacturers unveil their electric cars, they’ll dump their Teslas and go with the other brands. >

Nice!  Would be interesting to see what they've done to better their repair services.... >

Were all of them delivered to my neighborhood?  
Sure seems so. >

Reddit: Tesla is doomed, shitting the bed.
Report: Tesla deliveries up 40% YoY
Reddit: See!!!? >

Selling your “entire inventory” doesn’t mean shit when u made way less than you promised and your CEO is losing billions “owning the libs”, pissing off most of teslas customer base. The company is toast with wannabe trump at the helm. >

If they launch a $20k Corolla killer people will look past Musk madness.  And their energy business can subsidize cars. >

Yeah that car is never coming out. They can’t even keep the 3 at the 35k they planned on selling it for. >

How many got recalled? >

Also, how many canceled orders? >

Better enjoy it, won’t be getting those growth numbers again >

Literally can't go on forever, since their production would eventually have more mass than the sun.   Can probably continue for another 5-6 years, though.  Tesla targets production of about 20 million per year, but not for a bit. >

Yeah but we gotta deal with a toddler >

That’s an insult to toddlers. Musk is more like an edgelord 13 year old. >

You know your CEO is bad at his job when you have growth of 40% and stock price plunges 70% in the same year.
Do you think he will have to give back his bonus ? >

I mean, Musky boy definitely had an effect, but the decline is probably 90% due to the general tech down and the fact that Tesla was incredibly over valued if compared to tech peers and even more compared to automakers.
Apple is down 30%, Amazon is down 55%, Netflix is down 58%, Facebook is down 69%... 
That sounds more like a macro trend than something specific to Tesla >

As much as I would love to have an electric car, I’m hesitant because of the bullshit many companies are doing including putting features that are already installed behind a paywall. Not that I won’t pirate the shit they do put behind a paywall. Additionally, in my line if business, I need an SUV. There simply isn’t enough space in a car for me to haul what I need around and being able to tow would be even better. >

Same. Also, none have been around on the road for a decade. I'm not rich enough to buy cars every other year like they're cell phones >

The Reddit hive mind is kind of amazing. Yes Tesla still fell short of Wall Street estimates but still had 40% YoY growth. Yes Elon is a troll and says inflammatory things and is wrecking Twitter. Tesla is still a crazy growth story and doing pretty dam well. >

Quite.  As an investor?  I want Elon fired.  As an owner?  I still love my car.  There is nothing wrong with what or how they are doing it.  They are rocking it. >

Ya i think Elon stepping away as CEO of Tesla is for the best but only if you get someone like Tim Cook to step in. The worse would be a generic car compared executive or some MBA style ex Boeing exec that will ruin a company as they focus only on fake financial tools and stop investing in factories/innovation. >

The right choice is definitely key >

That trend will be reversing quickly… >

Hey, congratulations Tesla. You're finally making Subaru/Mazda numbers. >

Yup. Just 10% of Toyota’s numbers >

Don't worry, I'm sure that's going to go hard inverse over the next year based on Musk and his parade of stupid in the media.  Not to mention the quality issues with the cars. >

A remarkable achievement given the build quality. >

Seeing how shoddy Teslas are still being made and what massive asshole their CEO is, no thanks. There are bunch of other higher quality EV's out there that actually don't have dash designed by a moron who has never driven an actual car. >

Ford sold more than that in the US alone, as did Chevy, Honda and Toyota.
Tesla are dead in the water when the ICE bans start to hit. >

So what was the margin on those cars? Compare that again >

Before or after recall costs? >

Which recall costs?
Just a plain and simple comparison of gross or net margin >

And 60% of those units will need a major repair in the first year. >

I don't know about the Telsa drivers where you live, but here in Dallas, far and away the biggest assholes on highways drive Teslas.  They act like they're driving F1 but they're driving fucking Teslas.
Whatever brand they've built seem to appeal to people who drive with no regard for others here. >

Tesla driver here, from Dallas no less.
For absolutely fcking sure you are spot on.  No different than BMW aholes previously. >

It's like all the people who like to pass on the right going 20 over the speed limit randomly decided to buy a Telsa last year.  I don't get it.  Never had a problem with Tesla drivers before the past year or two. >

How much are you willing to bet they used to drive BMWs, Mercedes,  and Audi vehicles?  Because those are some "special" drivers around here too... >

Tesla will always be remembered as the company that kick started the revolution.  Up until recently I thought it would displace other car manufacturers.  But the CEO turned out to have a lot of issues and the traditional car manufacturers are producing better vehicles. >

Stock gave up all of its 6% gain today >

Stock market is closed today.