>

They should have brought this up a little earlier. :P
Is it already election time? >

Parliamentary elections in autumn, yes. >

It’s funny how predictable this is. >

In Australia, someone always rolls out a vague plan for high speed rail before every election. It then gets packed away after the votes are cast and not mentioned again for 4 years. >

In Turkey, our government finds a few trillion dollars worth of oil, gas, gold, or plutonium and threatens Greece before every election. >

Can confirm. Am Greek, feel mildly threatened as scheduled. >

u/Khutuck and u/pathanb Made my day. 
Would listen to the podcast. >

Khutuck and pathanb in the moooorning! >

What you doing? There are no cameras here >

That we know where this is from shows that there were indeed cameras. >


Poland estimates its World War Two losses caused by Germany at 6.2 trillion zlotys ($1.4 trillion) and has demanded reparations 

For context: A bit less than one-third of Germany's GDP. >

Didn’t making Germany pay crippling reparations help cause WWII? >

Yes, it was one of the biggest issues of the Weimar Republic and the economic damage it caused was a major factor in the German people shifting to support the rise of the Nazi party. >

So much so that the allies made sure not to do the same crippling reparations the second time, and instead opted for a more reasonable structure under the Marshall Plan. >

Did Poland get the Marshall plan? If I remember right, the regimes in the Soviet Bloc rejected it. >

That is correct and since Poland was under soviet occupation after wwii, soviets rejected it on behalf of Poland >

So maybe they should sue the USSR? Oh wait, it doesn't exist any more...
Could sue Russia, but good luck with that. >

Russia would generously offer to give all Poles the rights and privileges of Russian citizens to right this historic wrong. >

Feel free to begin making your way to Russia new citizen.
But we must implore, on your trip make a quick stop in Ukraine ... we have a favor to ask >


we have a favor to ask

we have favor to ask
(with accent)
FTFY >

Is it election time in Poland already? Its like clockwork. Yes, of course Germany refused just like they refused the last 100 times you've asked and they will refuse the next 100 times too. >

It’s not even a “refusal” but rather it was already settled. After WWII Germany was in complete financial ruin and didn’t have the money to pay. The Soviet Union was effectively in control of both Germany and Poland and so the USSR took some of Germany’s land and handed it over to Poland as reparations. Today Poland is trying to argue that that “deal” was invalid because Poland couldn’t really consent at the time and so Poland should get to keep the land AND Germany should still have to pay reparations. They’re trying to have their cake and eat it too. >

None of the Axis powers were forced to pay reparations other than land ceded to the Soviets. That roll was more or less adopted by the US through the Marshall Plan, though Poland was forced by the Soviets to reject that aid.
If Poland has valid claims then a looooong list of countries would have claims too, and not just against Germany. It was settled when the victors said it was settled and that's really all there is to it. >


It was settled when the victors said it was settled and that's really all there is to it.

Yep. Pretty much. >

Who holds the ledger on history?  How far back do we go to ‘repair’ everyone who has a claim? >

Germany needs to pay for the sack of Rome for sure >

Time to make the Mongolians pay back for Genghis Khan! >

No chance Greece will be able to pay Turkey off for the Trojan War >

Egypt should pay reparations to Syria for the battle of Megiddo 1500 BC. >

Homo Sapiens should pay reparations for the Neanderthal genocide in 40,000 BC. >


Neanderthals

The Welsh aren't getting a dime from me >

Germany lost like all of Prussia and any other reparations went through the political system of the USSR.   
They're barking up the wrong tree... >

German american, my paternal grandfather's farm is now in poland, and my maternal grandfather died from working in a french coal mine for reparations. >

RIP. Another fellow German American, family history and lineage is around what was Konigsberg. That ended after WW2 >

Poland estimates its World War Two losses caused by Germany at 6.2 trillion zlotys ($1.4 trillion) and has demanded reparations, but Berlin has repeatedly said all financial claims related to the war have been settled.
A bit less than one-third of Germany's GDP and stupid like making the present generation of Germans pay for their grand/great-grand fathers fought wars. It means they are doing this for nearby elections. >

I mean, Warsaw has also repeatedly said all financial claims related to the war have been settled. >

Probably the elections are near >

Well, PiS has problems getting money from the EU because of their disliking of democracy. >


Poland's ruling nationalist Law and Justice (PiS) party says that agreement is invalid because Poland was unable to negotiate fair compensation. It has revived calls for compensation since it took power in 2015 and has made the promotion of Poland's wartime victimhood a central plank of its appeal to nationalism.

I'm polish, PiS can fuck right off, but sadly too many people think they're the good guys... >

Some of my family are heavy nationalists and it's a pain. >

A country is made of people, and sorry to say that with very very few exceptions everyone involved in that war is dead.
Making the current generation of Germans pay for the war fought by their great grandparents is downright silly. >

And forcing the German descendants of German victims of the Nazis (German Jews, Roma, etc) to pay such reparations seems particularly cruel. >

And yet here in the U.S. they still want slave reparations for things that happened hundreds of years ago. Silly world we live in >

Yeah, I can't get behind that either considering a large portion of the US population has roots in immigrants who came to the US post Civil War...and who were often targets of persecution as well. >

Not to mention chunks of the US immigrant population came from countries that didn't take any part in the slave trade either. >

Not to mention that the Americans alive today had no influence on Slavery at all, and it's quite insane to make someone pay for a crime they had no part in that was committed 100+ years before anyone alive today was born. >

They just want handouts >

It was settled with the 2+4 treaty. It states that Germany is free of all ww2 reparations >

Poland is not a signatory of that treaty >

Poland also lost the war against Germany. >

Poland also “occupied” a big part of Germany after WW2. >

The Soviet Union moved Poland to the left in Europe after it occupied the majority of the original polish land. It has been the UDSSR, GB, USA and France who drew the new boarders of Europe >

France was not part of the Teheran Conference where the decision to move Poland to the left was made. >

Am I crazy to think Germany is in their rights to refuse this? They already paid these for years? >

We are absolutely right to refuse this, since Poland has officially waived any further reparations twice, once in 1953 and once in 1991. >

I dont stand behind this reparation claims but in 1953 poland was under a soviet occupation and was not sovereign country. All political decisions were made by soviets aka russians. Good to keep that in mind… >

If they want to claim that then they should start these negotiations by offering to return the territories they received from Germany that were meant to be the compensation. >

the german proto facists would love this idea. >

And the Polish proto-fascists hate it, which is why they aren't offering it. >

Polish government is making country look bad with these ridiculous propositions. >

The polish government has sadly been making the country look bad for years now. >

Why does the photo look like they’re both pissing on a wreath? >

Why aren't they try to get money from Russia? >

Russia would probably tell them to ask Ukraine since they are holding former polish territory. It's eastern Europe, Every square foot of land probably had at least 3 owners. >

Thumbnail makes them look like they're peeing. >

To open reparation discussions again, we all would have to go back on the "Treaty on the FINAL Settlement with Respect to Germany" of 1990. 
In this Treaty, "Germany also agreed to sign a separate treaty with Poland reaffirming the present common border, binding under international law, effectively relinquishing these territories to Poland."
These territories were majorly inhabited by Germans before 1945, and those who didn't flee were expelled from the country. 
I think if they want to open reparation negotiation again, they would have to give back these (substantial) territories and compensate the expelled germans.
I kinda don't think Poland wants to give back East Prussia, most of Lower Silesia,West Upper Silesia, Farther Pomerania, and parts of Western Pomerania, Lusatia, and Neumark, Danzig, Posen-West Prussia Border March, Lauenburg and Bütow Land, and Ermland.
What are these territories worth? >

A big deal, wanna war about it? >

Best I can do is make hollow demands to stir up the easily manipulated to get them to vote based on emotion rather than sound logic. Oh wait... >

"sorry the old company already filed for bankruptcy we no longer have to honor that debt" >

Technically the Allies made sure to never formally dissolve the German Reich so we couldn't just pull this card and be done with it. Thus, the Federal Republic of Germany is not the legal successor to the German Reich, as a subject of international law it is identical to the German Reich, despite being an entirely different country by characteristics. >

Give it up already >

Sounds like election season to me >

Lol. It's the same as pre Trump U.S. rolling out black reparations every single midterm election.
Not sure why they gave it up for our last one. >

The third of germany you took is your reparations. Duh >

And Poland refused to give back the former Prussia.
No, really, this can work both ways. I don't think anyone truly wants to open this Pandora's Box. >

Wasn't the time to do that 70 years ago? >

Didn't Germany, as part of reunification, give up all claims on Polish land that had been traditionally occupied by Germans, one of the issues that faced both countries due to their actions in WWI/WWII and post WWII? And in return Poland would dropped demands for reparations. >

This is exactly how World War Two started... >

2 old men pissing on a wreath? >

Seems they missed the memo, the entire thing had already been settled and both sides agreed to no further reparations. At some stage you just gotta let go, it's been nearly 85 years... >

I mean fucking duh.  Reparations are a dumb concept with except of in a court.  Let's punish the sons for the sins of the father.  Yeah, no, get fucked. >

My brother in Christ is this really a good time? >

Elections in Poland are coming up, and PiS doesnt really have anything to appeal to people apart from "germany bad" and "gays evil", so thats what they'll try to appeal to for the coming months >

Can't they use their excellent record in helping Ukraine to win votes instead of falling back to their old lazy tricks? >

I'm guessing that doesn't sell quite as well as fear mongering in Poland? >

Nothing they do really sells all that well. Their support has been spiraling down for a while now >

I also can't imagine why any Polish voter would seriously think now it's a good time to antagonize Germany whilst Russia is escalating further to the east. If things come to a head Germany will become for Poland what Poland has become for Ukraine: A humanitarian anchor, a staging ground for the delivery of supplies and in addition - an actual ally against Russia as well as a staging ground for further NATO personnel to land in Europe and deploy to the Battlefield. >

I doubt most Polish people actually go on their day to day lives blaming the evil Germans/gay people/immigrants for everything wrong in their life. PiS mostly gets votes due to economic policies(and obviously PiS's tactics aren't working) >

99% of those involved with WWII are dead.  Move on. >

There is a point where a countries history is in the past. Every country had a dark side of their history but a century later when their government is reformed, you can’t hold their children responsible for that >

Poland taking the PiSs again. >

Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought this issue was already solved and that if this can of worms is opened it would result in several post WWII deals falling apart and territories changing hands. >

So disrespectful they’re both pissing on that wall >

Germany already paid out. The Soviet Union collected all its repatriations which was agreed to under the Potsdam Agreement. >

I always find it interesting how Japan gets away scot free on this issue considering their looting made the Nazis look like child’s play >

WE AINT GOING THROUGH THIS SHIT AGAIN >

Did Poland give reparations to the Polish people they executed? >

I don't think reparations are owed to anyone tbh. No one today is responsible for anything that occured 70+ years ago. >

I would too if I was Germany. It’s time to let it go Poland. >

Poland got Silesia, Pomerania and most of Prussia, what els can Germany give? >

Wasn't giving up reparations claims part of EU membership? >

Let The Vatican pay for inquisition >

No shit. Because there is nothing to talk about. This question has been answered finally in the 2+4 contract. It declares all reperations demands be nullified and Germany waives all territory demands in the east.
So if Poland does not recognize this we can talk about buying back pommerania and Prussia for reperations
 /s >

Because reparations are a nonsense idea. >

Let's just go all the way back to Egypt like 4000 years ago and get reparations LoL >

We Germans still have an open bill to send to the Vikings and Romans (thus we kicked the latter off our lands and then marched through Rome - so let’s call this even). >

I mean, in Germany’s defense, the modern Polish borders include huge areas of territory that were part of Germany until the end of World War II. Silesia, East Pomerania and Prussia were effectively destroyed on the basis that Prussian militarism had caused WWI and WWII.
It isn’t often discussed in textbooks, but iirc something like 2 million Germany civilians died when they were forcibly exiled by the Soviet army. >

I'm with Germany on this one. >

Isn’t this like 70yrs too late to initiate discussions? I mean we all had shit happen to our ancestors . . . I’m not going to go ask Britain for reparations for bombing my Dutch grandparents by mistake. >

This is not an initiation of a discussion. Germany paid and various Polish governments signed agreements with Germany that they will not make further demands. For the first time, Poland waived war reparations in 1953 and another settlement was reached in 1990. Unfortunately, demanding (further) reparations is part of the nationalistic agenda of the current government. >

Italy, the successor to Holy Roman Empire, owns Europe for the invasion and damages they caused!!! >

Pretty sure Germany is the successor to the Holy Roman Empire >

Why would they be paying reparations in 2023.. just let it go it’s been over forever >

I am so tired of this. The argument from the polish side always follows this line of thought: The soviets were in charge and took eastern poland. The soviets took one third of Germany and gave it to Poland. The soviets waived the polish reparation claims towards germany. Now the waiving of reparations is invalid because the soviets did it but the received land isn't because it was rightfully polands anyways.
Truth is Germany unleashed the war with all its horrors and Poland gained one third of german land. That is the '"balance" between those two countriws. Germany did not take eastern Poland so the debt is paid.
If anything poles should ask east where there actually is a historical imbalance in what was given and taken. >

This reparation garbage is just out of control. People who haven’t been wronged demanding that the descendants of people who did their descendants wrong owe THEM something. 
Germany is right to refuse this, they should outright condemn it. >

Obviously we do, the call for reparations is unfounded, because it is set and done for decades. See I. E. "Treaty on the Final Settlement with Respect to Germany". Which includes former German territory which is now Polish. Plus it was several times acknowledged by different Polish Governments. 
Typical PiS shenanigans, it is election time... >

Poland got a huge chunk of land from Germany. Germany dealt with massive issues including mass relocations of citizens after the war. They definitely paid the price. >

I am Polish, this is utterly pathetic. I dont know what do they really care about, is it the soldiers/veterans? The Polish society? The Polish economy? Maybe if they tried to unfuck this country it would work miles better than whatever this is. Really sad. >

I'm Polish (50 y/o) - when I was at school there was a lot talk about it; but Germans are right: the case was settled in 1970. True, it was done under pressure from Moscow, but as far as I know it was legal and bounding - and we got.... nothing. That stings, true, but it's not really Germany's fault, as they paid everyone else
Will they agree to renew the negations? I really can't see why would they. Of course it would be nice for Poland, but seems unlikely 
However, we SHOULD ask Russia for retributions - although they never even admitted they anything wrong, not to mention murdering millions of people or, God forbid apologizing This thing however was never a subject of any discussion >

Italy should go after them next for the sack of Rome in 410. >

Poland already got a large portion of german territory...
Can we buy that back? >

Okay really? There is no question Germany commutted horrific crimes in the second world war. 
But I think Germany is right in this case. Germany has put immense effort in trying to atone for its crimes. They paid reparations to Israel. I believe some went to Poland. 
Germany acknowledges it crimes. To this day they are working to atone for them. They have offered sanctuary to Ukrainian Jews and Ukrainian Holocaust survivors to come to Germany as part of those efforts. 
They have memorials all over Germany. 
Almost no one is alive today who is responsible for creating the policies of the Nazi regime. 
Why should we punish modern day Germans born decades after the crimes, who have no responsibility for them?
I think Germany has shown its learned its lesson. >

I think we all need to move on. So many ‘reparation demands’ are being made at the moment even for slavery which occurred hundreds of years ago by people and maybe even ancestors that we know nothing about or can relate to.
There comes a point when I feel it’s fair to simply acknowledge and reflect on the past but not make the present day or future generations pay for something they had zero control over or contribution to. >

Well Poland did get about 25% of THEIR TERRITORY already....from Germany. >

Read about the contract of Warsaw 1970 were Poland agreed to no reparations and the 2 plus 4 negotiations of 1990. So what dows Poland still want? Ohh wait they have a right wing government and elections are around the corner..... >

This shit again. Polish (right wing) politicians like to talk about this every couple years. Recently it's been every couple months.  Reparations have been paid. Poland can go knock on Moscow's door and ask for a bigger share if they think they should've gotten more. >

You're such an embarrassment, Poland >

Poland is a little slow. They still think it’s 1946 >

They could ask Russia for reparations as well. I wonder how Putin would respond? >

Is this new record for mentioning reparations ? Its only 3rd day of the year. >

Poland already got a third of Germany as compensation, if they want money instead, fine, but you can't have your cake and eat it too. >

Does no one remember what happened last time someone made Germany pay reparations for a World War? >

FYI, Soviet Russia planned, and invaded at the same time as Nazi Germany. So, they might as well ask Putin for reparations...good luck with that. >

Poland should pay reparations to the Czechs for territory it annexed in 1938. >


Poland should pay reparations to the Czechs for territory it annexed in 1938.

Did Poland pay reparations to Lithuania and Ukraine? >

The war was 80 years ago for christ sake, not to mention the forcing them to pay reparations was part of what started WWII in the first place. 
Maybe go after Russia, Germany fucked your country up for 6 years, but the USSR did it for the better part of the century. 
The money doesn't magically make anything better, WWII is history, acknowledge what was done, remember that it happened, apologize and be better, all of which Germany has actually done better than any other country in recent history for taking responsibility for the atrocities they committed, meanwhile Japan still refuses to even apologize for Nanjing. >

Are they still demanding that Germany reimburse them for Jedwabne?  For those who don’t know, they claim it’s Germany’s fault for not stopping them from burning people alive in a barn. >

Well it took them over 90+ years to pay their 200+ billion reparations from World War 1, Im sure they are thrilled to pay more >

Maybe they should talk about dealing with Putin and Russia first before going down memory lane. >

Poland acquired a part of Germany that was once Eastern Prussia, after WW2. Was that included in the calculations? >

As a German I think that's a story that should finally be set aside. Not forgotten, but settled. 
We're not part of this story, these generations are almost all dead and we should finally be allowed to start a future, no?
I mean, our politicians are 100% incompetent fools. From right wing, over center to left wing. They straight up suck and are controlled completely by lobbyism. 
But whatever. Maybe when they are gone as well, we might have a shot a educated, free and happy Germany. >

There is no legal basis for reparations anymore. It was all settled. >

Didn't reparations for WW1 help cause the stress that led to WW2? >

This is coming from a Jewish person. WWII was almost 100 years ago. None of the victims or aggressors are alive anymore, and both countries in question have been strategic and economic allies for decades. 
And if anybody is still owed reparations for the Holocaust, it’s not a country on behalf of their economic losses. It would be the families of the victims. >

This photo kinda looks like they are peeing. No? Just me? What gives! >

Definitely does. >

Being german, cannot take it seriously, and have to resort to snark and sarcasm...
First off, we have no time for talks as we are still in negotiations with Italy for the hundreds of years of occupation by the Roman Empire. Also Sweden, France, Spain, Italy and the Vatican owe us still big time for the 30-year-war. Once that money has come to us, we might pay some zlotys to Poland.
Though of course, if you want the 6 trillion earlier, we still have some stockpiles of Reichsmark we can send you, and surely we can even print some trillions of those on top. 
Lastly, and more seriously: I think 60+ years of occupation by inept communists after the war did more harm to the country than the war, economically at least. So we advice Poland to ask Russia for money first. Once they paid their due, we might talk...have fun >

Germany already did pay for reparations. Why would they agree to pay new ones? >

Maybe try Russia. >

How about we keep our eyes on the ball. (Russia) >

Rueters is partnered with the russian state controlled media so consider the source accordingly. >

Looking at the picture at the top of that thread I really thought it was two blokes piasing on the memorial for a second there >

“ Everyone vas on Vacation!” >

PUNCH WAS SERVED >

Why dont they used russia? >

Next they will be asking Russia. >

Didn't they get reparations in the form of East Prussia and the other bits of Eastern Germany? >

Have Poland gotten Money from Russia? >

Now do soda companies and every other single use plastics purveyor. >

How about starting talks about how Danzig, Breslau and Stettin are German cities like Berlin? >

Sure, but we'll only pay those directly, literally, actually impacted at the time the damage was done.
What's that? They're all dead? Oh. Case closed. >

We can all agree that the war was shitty…but at least Germany doesn’t refuse to acknowledge their own actions in the war, unlike Japan. 
Side note, Poland did not receive any monetary reparation from postwar Germany, because it was effectively given to the Soviet Union to maintain peace between the Allies. 
Arguably post war Poland got more fucked by the US/UK/USSR than Germany.