>

Yeah? Nah. That shitty bell has been clanging loudly for a long time. While we can credit Trump with saying/doing/exposing a lot of terrible things, this ain’t one of them.
No they didn’t.  These alarm bells have been ringing for a decade, with many (actual) billionaires saying “we don’t even think this is fair.” >

There's a reason why certain people in Congress are whining about more IRS agents being hired. Whether they'll actually go after the rich and save the country money, I really don't know. >

As a small business owner, I am praying that the IRS gets more employees (exceedingly few of them are "agents.")
It is, simply, impossible to get anything done with the IRS. They sent me an erroneous bill for a penalty for failing to file a tax return. Not a big deal: paperwork mistakes happen.
But when you try to call them, you literally cannot speak to someone. You get a recording that basically says, "Sorry, send us a letter" and then it hangs up on you.
The real issue with this is that when you send a letter, nothing happens. MEANWHILE, penalties and interest continue to accrue -- penalties and interest that you don't owe.  So every time you send a letter, you have to also protest the latest round of penalties and fees.
But...because of the time lag, things never catch up. So it's this never-ending cycle of sending letters and appeals, which are a complete waste of time and could have been solved with a 5-minute phone call and a fax machine. >

I had to hire an accountant to talk to the IRS. There must be a backdoor number he used because he got in quick and resolved the issue. However as you said this is total BS. Meanwhile I cant seem to find any magical tax cheats or any help at all with any sort of tax relief even though I have employees. I think I need to learn how to make shell companies. >

THIS. There was a story covered in early 2022 I believe that talks about companies that charge you to get in line (better position) on hold with the IRS. They simply robo call the IRS number millions of times to gridlock the whole system and sell our accountants a better spot in line.
Talk about criminal AND reprehensible. And how the fuck the government hasn't shut that shit down is another level of wtf. >

Do you not see this as a problem? It creates a system where people can't solve issues by themselves. They need to hire a professional to do something they could have done themselves. Now, I'm not saying everyone understands the tax code, and of course there is a reason for tax professionals to exist. But people should have the tools to solve this themselves if they have the time and knowledge. >

They do what? Because you just said the reason we can't get through to the IRS is because they have been defunded. Which you also seem to believe is a problem, so it seems we're on a similar page in that regard? I honestly don't get all the questions in the first paragraph. I haven't dealt too much with the IRS myself, and I don't know how to contact the departments you mentioned. Is it possible for individuals? I was reading comments and replying based on the information I was given, and that information was that tax professionals can contact the IRS via a number regular citizens don't have, and that seems unfair to me for people trying to do taxes themselves. Personally, I don't know enough to do it all myself, and would hire a professional or use a tax service, but I know people in this thread have tried and failed to contact the IRS themselves, and that's a failure of the system in my opinion. >

Conservatives only have a bag of tricks with 5 items. 
1. Tax cuts and adjustments to favor the rich and corporations.
2. Decrease regulations on business and corporations.
3. Stack federal courts with partisan judges.
4. Make abortion illegal.
5. Defend Gun rights.
The last two are just red herrings to keep their voters distracted and angry so that the money will flow to get them reelected.  
Conservatives are pretty simple minded.  But they are effective in getting what they want because so many are easily fooled. >

Uhh.... I don't think after the year we've had it's fair to call number four a red herring. I mean, I know they did it accidentally, but it did happen. >

I agree about #4, but as you say it was by accident and now they are the proverbial "dog that caught the car" they don't know what to do. >

Also correct.  I just don't want us to fall into the trap of thinking that these things are not dangerous just because they're lying about them >

Bring back the 1950s tax rates. >

That would not solve the problem at all. All that would do is impose a greater tax burden on high income professionals, who are already paying an enormous amount of taxes. What you need to do is find a way to tax the accumulated wealth of the billionaire class, who can minimize their taxable income in a given year to literally zero, and who have amassed an unprecedented amount of wealth that goes completely untaxed. Increasing the top marginal rate doesn’t solve that. All it does is point a jealous finger at high-income, but not necessarily “wealthy,” hard-working professionals. That might make you feel good, but it doesn’t come close to solving the problem. >

Every time this topic comes up, it’s so clear that way too many people think that the wealthy literally get a paystub with their insane capital gains on them along with a withheld amount like the rest of us. 
I’ve personally stopped using the term “upper middle class” because I strongly believe if you get your primary money with a paystub and amount withheld, you’re way more similar than not. >

Absolutely true. People are seriously mistaken if they think the doctor down the street who makes $800,000 a year is not paying taxes, after they read a report that Elon Musk or Bezos paid no taxes last year. Those two filers are not at all the same, and hitting up the doctor for a greater percent of his income in taxes will do nothing to make the billionaire class pay a single cent of taxes. The problems with the tax code are deep and structural, and increasing top marginal rates won’t fix those problems. You could make the top marginal rate start at $100,000 a year and capture 100% of income earned above that, and billionaires could happily continue to pay absolutely nothing. >


People are seriously missing the big picture if they think the doctor down the street who makes $800,000 a year is not paying taxes, after they read a report that Elon Musk or Bezos paid no taxes last year.

Part of the issue is so many people think the ultra-wealthy are just like their uncle that’s an engineer who clears $200k. I thought that until I lived in Boston and ran into legit old money families way more often that I thought I ever would. I probably know personally a double digit number of people who earn $30-$50k a year post-tax from a “small trust,” which isn’t much in scale but is still a lot of money for just existing. And consider those families’ trusts are probably paying that much to 30+ descendants. 

You could make the top marginal rate start at $100,000 a year and capture 100% of income earned above that

I’ve seen that idea presented seriously and upvoted here way too many times… >

Oh yeah, in my experience people who think we solve this problem by having their neighbor, who is a lawyer or engineer, pay an even higher percent of his income in taxes are really motivated by some mix of jealousy and ignorance. What you said about how the ultra wealthy live and get paid is spot on. There are very many people walking around with tens or hundreds of millions of dollars in trusts, from which they draw maybe $100,000 a year. Those are the folks with the real money and power in our society, and the folks who get away with murder under our tax code - not the white collar professional whose house would go in foreclosure within six months of getting laid off. >

Also- not to say our marginal tax thresholds/percentages are sacred either. Let’s keep those current too! 
But not addressing where wealth really gets away with murder is doing the population a real disservice. >

That is totally a debate worth having, but we should always be sure to have it with the right understandings of the impact raising rates would have. Raising the top marginal rate won’t solve often-lamented problems like “Warren Buffett pays a lower effective tax rate than his secretary” or “Bezos paid nothing in taxes last year,” and those are the type of perverse outcomes that really lead to massive accumulation of wealth in the hands of a few. >

Companies are not human beings and should not be treated more favorably than the people who support them by buying their goods and services. They should bare the brunt of the tax burden. >

Corporations are people my friend! - "Moderate" GOP shithead Romney >


“Under the current system, American workers pay virtually all their tax bills while many top earners avoid paying billions in the taxes they owe by exploiting the system.”
“This is backwards. Lawmakers should equalize these rates so that someone who wakes up at 6 a.m. and trudges to work in the rain doesn’t pay a higher rate than someone who sits in their inherited mansion watching the stock portfolio they were given grow.”
“With over 400 flow-thru returns reported on the form 1040, it is not possible to obtain the resources available to examine all potential issues,” an internal IRS memo stated, according to the report.
Yellen stressed again that “these investments will not result in households earning $400,000 per year or less or small businesses seeing an increase in the chances that they are audited relative to historical levels.”

All the people worried about the IRS coming after their lucky charms probably don’t even have 10 shell companies going through their tax returns. >

I got audited for 87 dollars this year from a discrepancy 3 years ago. Fuck that. >

And now the IRS has the resources they need to do that even more. >

I was told they wouldn’t go after people earning below 400,000/year. No idea if this is related or not to that. >

"Institution that preys on poor people promises not to prey on poor people if they're given more money"...We'll see, I suppose, but I am deeply sceptical. >

Yeah no idea if this was related to the recent Biden initiative or not since it was from a couple years ago. >

You mean to tell me the tax codes favor the rich? The ones that donate to the politicians campaigns?  I’m just shocked, truly shocked. >

The tax code favors those with vast amounts of accumulated wealth. Those people often have negligible taxable income, as Trump proved. The so-called “working rich” in this country, like doctors and lawyers who work their asses off to earn maybe around $500,000 - $2 million a year, pay all the taxes. Democrats have somehow become convinced that those people are the problem and should be paying more taxes, while they’re already taxed to an extreme degree that completely outweighs the benefits they receive from the government. >

I concur >

Yeah, it always drives me crazy when people take their eyes off the prize and act like the high-income professional down the street is some type of mini Jeff Bezos. Those two are not in the same league or even playing the same game. Billionaires in this country can get away with paying literally nothing in taxes in a given year. They hold unimaginably large reservoirs of wealth, and the government has basically no way to tax it. Meanwhile, high-income professionals are paying a huge percent of their hard-earned income in taxes every year, and a lot of the rhetoric out there suggests they should be paying even more, and that we should just increase the top marginal rate, which would do absolutely nothing to solve the real problem. >

To be honest, there was nothing unexpected in those tax returns. We all knew it would be a bunch of losses and shady charitable donations. We all know that a lot of money is stored in offshore tax havens in the name of entities that don't need to be listed on his tax returns. We also all know that nothings gonna change, but we just keep hoping. >

If they keep their international income in international banks then it isn't the US's place to tax it.
British money gets taxed in Britain. German money gets taxed in Germany. Until it makes it's way to the US it shouldn't be getting taxed. It can sit in the Virgin Island for a thousand years if they don't want to spend it anywhere. >

It still needs to be listed in US tax returns if in the individual name or any pass through entity >

I'm an American living and working in the UK, where I have settled. I work and earn all my money in the UK, but still have to declare it on US tax returns. I also can't invest in British ETFs without a 50% capital gains levy. >

I see lots of people advocating for a flat tax like that’s somehow going to be “fair” for the working class and the super wealthy.
We had a progressive tax rate in this country before and it worked like gangbusters. We built highways, public schools, mass transit…but sure, let’s go with something that hasn’t worked before. >

these alarms have been raised by many for years it's a shame people are just now hearing about them. >

It’s a feature not a bug. >

Who ever said it was fair?  I always thought it was just what the billionaires and their paid shills could get away with without torches and pitchforks coming out.  It's just a bunch of partisan bullshit cobbled together by lobbyists in Washington. 
The Democrats had a chance to reverse it slightly in 2020, but then with DINO's Manchin and Sinema being paid off, that became impossible.  It's just a codified war by the rich against the poor. >

My takeaway is this:     
-Do you really think Trump is the only rich asshole not paying any taxes, or just the one we know about most publicly? This is the NORM for the wealthy!     
-While the IRS admits it's failures without explanation, NOT ONE PERSON, SPECIFICALLY YHE IRS DIRECTOR, HAS BEEN FIRED FOR FAILURE TO PERFORM LEGALLY REQUIRED DUTIES. >

Oh now it raises alarms? Lmao. Fucking stupid. I think a lot of people have been aware how flawed the system is. >

Everyone but the top 1% have been raising tax fairness for 40 years, this isn’t new. >

Was there any doubt? >


I don't understand. A billionaire has to pay, like, sometimes almost $100,000 in taxes (okay, most times it's $0 but not always!). That's a lot of money. And if they get to keep more money, then they can use it to hire more people, which makes everyone richer!! Also, let me create the term "effective taxrate" to explain why billionaires pay more money than regular people do!

....nobody actually believes this stuff anymore, even the UK fired its PM in record time over this nonsense. It's literally letting people loot the treasury. >

A lot of people are up in arms about Trump not paying much in taxes but a big part of it is simply the tax code.
You could inherit $10 million from a rich uncle and not pay any tax. You could then invest it and see it grow to $50 million and still not be taxed. You could then take a $1 million loan against your $50 million, still not be taxed, and buy yourself a fleet of luxury vehicles, etc.
You would be taxed if you took money as income such as in interest or dividends (which Trump was actually taxed on), or if you sold some of the investment.
If you inherited assets like office buildings, you could inherit them without tax, sell them at a tax loss but still get cash from them, and use that tax loss to offset years of future income. I strongly suspect this is what Trump has done. He's a terrible business person and can just let his properties lose value and sell them at losses and have plenty of other properties and assets to have money.