>

Almost every news channel seemed to have it then they were all gone
A childhood friend of mine, Jose Malacara, was killed in a similar incident a few years ago in San Marcos, CA. Cop claimed he was chasing a drunk driver he saw in oncoming lane. He was speeding without his emergency lights on. Jose was one of the sweetest people I’ve ever met. I miss him a lot. The cop should have got manslaughter at the very least. He made a big mistake and unintentionally killed my friend. >

This happened to Jessica and Kelli Uhl in 2007 outside St Louis.  Trooper was doing 120 mph.  They were 13 and 17. >

Surely shit like this happening would be enough for any cop to abstain from chases.
How do you enter the force, hear stories like this, and then participate in a chase? >

Because if you read the thing you're replying to, the police get away with a slap on the wrist when they kill innocent people in high speed chases. >

I'm saying as an individual how could you knowing what has happened in the past
I understand punishment is not enough of a deterrent. I'm aghast that previous tragedies are not. >

Cops kill innocent people all the time and respond with empty platitudes, excuses, or even vilifying the victim. I’m not sure why you think accidental deaths would weigh heavier on their conscience just because it was with a car instead of a gun. Without external punishment, the culture of modern policing will ensure there is never accountability for this sort of thing. >

Jesus maybe because the cops that are intentionally killing people probably don't have much of a conscience to begin with?
Punishment is not the only thing stopping most people from killing others. Most have morals. >

So we shouldn’t have punishments for crimes? Because morals are enough to keep everyone in line? Is that really what you’re saying? >

Yeah sure. That's what I'm saying why not. >

I said “cops need to be punished for crimes or they’ll keep doing them” and you replied with “punishments aren’t what keep people from committing crimes.” So it sounds an awful damn lot like you think cops don’t need to be punished for crimes. Unless you think cops are some special class of people that should be given special privileges to commit crimes without consequence, that sounds to me like you think punishment for crimes is unnecessary.
If you’re saying something else, anything else really, then I’m not sure why you felt the need to disagree with my simple argument that lack of punishment leads to increased crime rates. >

You are reading way too much into what I wrote
Every human had different reactions to things, I'm just feeling shocked myself as I'm likening entering the force and hearing about these tragedies to say - when you're in highschool and a drunk drivers parent comes and talks to you.
I'm saying often emotional pain is much worse than the punishment and people who the punishment is not enough to put off committing a crime are unlikely to feel that emotional pain
But you've already decided I'm some cop lover who thinks they should run free. Not sure why you wanna argue this with me when almost everyone agrees here that a shit thing happened.
I never said no punishment should be given. You out words in my mouth to fit your agenda. Nice rant. >

This is pure negligence, even with lights and siren going an emergency vehicle must still slow down to cross the intersection so that other traffic can be made aware of the vehicle and either stop or get out of the way. >

At 86mph, he was rapidly outrunning his siren. They were completely useless in warning cars heading into the intersection and any good cop would know that. He absolutely should end up in jail for this. >

Not arguing, just curious what is the speed required to outrun a siren?
Obviously ona city street with building blocking noise it would be even lower but I’m a bit curious at what speed is the siren more just a formality as no one has time to react anyways >

We’ve always been told 120kmh (75ish mph) is the upper limit. Though that’s in an open area and I’m sure surroundings and buildings/etc lower that number too. I know we’ve surprised people at much lower speeds than that and our sirens are louder and our trucks are bigger and redder. >

Also probably assuming windows open of any other car.
I'm pretty good at hearing sirens, but it is pretty hard to notice while driving 35-45mph with windows up and the radio at a normal level. They can catch you off guard pretty quick. In those scenarios, I usually see their lights before I hear their siren.
I'm a pretty big fan of the rumbler because of these issues. >

Given the preponderance of people with overdone subwoofers, I wonder if that's still effective. >

Oh, it's very different and you feel it in the steering wheel. Unless you've got an insane sub and it's cranked up, you'll notice. >

Right, but I'd just assume it's someone with stupid subs.  Like I do now. >

I've never had someone with such crazy subs rattle my steering lol >


An Addis police officer is facing criminal charges after striking and killing two teenage girls during a high-speed chase of a suspect Saturday, according to District Attorney Tony Clayton.
Officials told WBRZ that officer David Cauthron, 42, was arrested and booked Sunday night on two counts of negligent homicide and one count of negligent injuring. Jail officials said he is being held on a $100,000 bond. He was still jailed as of Monday morning.
Sources told WBRZ that the GPS inside Cauthron's vehicle showed he was going about 86 miles per hour and did not hit his brakes before impact. Witnesses said Cauthron ran a red light and that the light had been red for about 20 seconds when his police unit reached the intersection. 
The police unit struck the victims' car, pushing it into the median of the highway. Two of the occupants, 17-year-old Maggie Dunn and 16-year-old Caroline Gill, were pronounced dead, and a third victim, Dunn's teenage brother, was taken to a hospital in critical condition. Sources said the teens were heading to a store just minutes from home. 
Clayton said the laws surrounding police chases may need to be changed in light of Saturday's crash and his office would pursue all information before deciding if the Addis officer should be charged, according to the news outlet

Hopefully the officer faces charges. They caught the fleeing suspect, too, and he's getting some extra charges for having a hand in this crash. Just a tragic situation for the teens in the car, though.
Edit: this is not the full article text by the way. There's more that I cut out for brevity if you care to read it. >

Seems odd to tack on extra charges to the fleeing criminal when the cop was violating every protocol.
If I'm running away from a bank robbery and a cop just opens fire blindly into a crowd and takes out a bunch of innocents when I'm not even visibly armed that's not "in the course of doing his duty" imo and shouldn't be tied to felony murder for me. >

Because the injuries happened during the commission of a crime.  If you didn't do the crime, those injuries wouldn't have happened, so you can get extra charges applied.  It doesn't mean your hypothetical cop firing into a crowd shouldn't also get charged, just that you have a share in the responsibility for creating a dangerous situation in the first place. >

I understand the concept of felony murder, but it should really only apply in situations where a normal police response risk caused the issue. If a criminal is firing into a crowd and a cop tries to take him out and kills a bystander then yeah, I get it. The risk was weighed against the danger. Charge the dude w/ felony murder.
If the cop hadn't violated policy and driven dangerously then those teens would be alive. The cop isn't supposed to be in a high speed chase so he created the situation himself.
FTA:
"If it involves putting human life in danger, stop the damn pursuit," Clayton said. "It's just not worth the risk."
Sums it up. >

I'm sorry, but I just don't agree here.  Yes, in this situation this cop should absolutely be held responsible for his reckless actions, but the person who committed the crime set the entire situation in motion. 
 It's not like there's a finite amount of consequences that would have to be split between them, nobody should get off "easy".  The original criminal that did the home invasion and stole a car is responsible for the entire situation, the cop is responsible for his part in it. >

There is absolutely not enough info to have that opinion. For all you know, the cop heard about a chase from across town, decided to haul ass through a red light and killed the teens. That is not the initial suspects fault. >

It doesn't matter.  Here's an idea, don't pull a home invasion, steal a car, and run from the police if you're concerned about picking up additional charges if someone else gets hurt.  If the initial suspect did in fact commit the crime, then yes, it's absolutely their fault since the chase wouldn't be happening if they didn't commit the crime, and the teens would be sitting in school right now complaining about their homework. >

If the initial suspect did, in fact commit the crime, it’s still not their fault. Police are in control of their behavior, not the suspect. You can feel like it’s ok, but if you are going to spread the blame that far, is it really the suspects fault? I mean, society didn’t provide them with mental health services or appropriate wages. Wasn’t it taxpayers that paid for the police cruiser that killed these kids? If tax payers had gone on tax strike, the police wouldn’t have that car and those kids would still be alive. >

Ad absurdum as defense, nice.
Everything you mentioned is a) indirect, and b) not a criminal act.  "Society" is not criminally responsible for not providing mental health or "appropriate" wages (and you're making the assumption here with no basis that either of these come into play in the first place).  Taxpayers are not committing a criminal act by paying their taxes.  Committing a home invasion, stealing a car, and fleeing from police are all criminal acts though.  If this guy did not do any of those things, these teenagers would still be alive, that is a simple fact.  He made a choice to commit a crime, and that choice created a situation that killed them that would not have otherwise existed.  I won't shed a tear if they get the book thrown at them, whatever the consequences they're not enough. >

Well, that proves my point. “ whatever the consequences they're not enough” so you are just getting off on punishment. If the cop hadn’t ran a red light at 86mph, those kids wouldn’t be killed either. Someone growing weed illegally isn’t a good reason to burn down a building with people inside. The pot growers would not be the murderers, even though, if they weren’t committing a felony, that buildings and its inhabitants would be fine. Reductio ad absurdum is actually a valid logical method, pointing it out isn’t some sick burn, or something. >

Very sad and always bad when innocent ppl get hurt.
I believe there are very few high speed chases that are actually warranted. Risking life and limb of the officer and general public is not necessary for a drug stop or speeding stop.  With today's technology, radio communications and traffic cams, etc, there has to be a better way to make arrests than a high speed chase, which seems to often end in a tragedy. >

Literally. If they don’t flee the country they can be found. 
E.g. A man stabbed four teens to death and was found several hundred miles away across state lines several weeks after allegedly committing the crime.  
We need to overhaul the entire policing methodology for many precincts in this country. >

really underselling the distance with “several hundred”. It was over 2,500 miles away by roads >

yes i know, NYC to LA is 2,800 miles
however Monroe County, PA is less than 90 miles from NYC and Moscow, Idaho is nearly the same Longitude as LA.
all in all it comes to 2,549 miles, just put it in google maps lmao >

I was t-boned and had my car totaled by a cop who ran a red light responding to a chase. Not so much as an apology, just an ambulance ride and a sub-replacement  payout from insurance. >

One of my good friends was in an accident with a cop car flying through an intersection when he was a kid. His friend was killed in the accident. >

My wife had a patient who suffered an internal decapitation from a police cruiser speeding the wrong way down a one-way street. She will be paralyzed from the neck down for the rest of her life. >

Internal decapitation is a new term I never wanted to learn… just after learning you can be ingested into an airplane engine yesterday. 
I’m glad I don’t smoke anymore. Jfc. >

If any of you watch On Patrol: Live (formerly Live PD), you see these car chases all the time.  
It makes for good TV but I always think, why the f*ck are they chasing these guys at 100mph through city streets?  Innocent people's lives aren't worth the risk so some hero cop can catch a potential car thief. >

Good read >

2023 rolling in with the good news already.
He joined Addis Police in February 2022 and previously worked at the Pointe Coupee Parish Sheriff's Office.
I wonder why he left his previous place of employment🧃 >

Exactly why when an officer is under investigation, it shouldn’t quit just because he quits and goes to another department. It should continue so that his new department can either pass on the outcome to that officer and decide if they still want him employed. >

All Law Enforcement Officers should have to be insured or bonded.
They need permanent license numbers that should follow them to any agency. It also needs to be on their badge and equipment. If assigned a permanent state vehicle it needs to be on that as well.
All serious injuries and fatalities need to be investigated by an independent Federal agency. This is a civil rights issue at heart. >

Probably 20 years ago now I had to take a drivers safety class to get rid of a ticket. The cop instructing the class was trying to explain why police had a right to speed with their lights off. “Saying what would you want if we were trying to get to the scene for you? Do you want the bad guy to know we are coming.” I tried to explain people not being able to react to them going through an intersection, and the state laws requiring cops to have lights on to speed. None of it was clicking, he was absolutely sure he was above the law because he knew what was best.
The thrill of the chase is incredibly dangerous, and something no cop is above. Police chases should be flat out forbidden. Someone runs, radio ahead. >

You can make a singular good faith argument for cops speeding while not engaged in an emergency:
If you're on the highway and you see a cop coming behind you, you are likely to move over and slow down. If you're on the highway and you come up behind a cop going the speed limit... You'll be unlikely to pass.
It's not the strongest argument, but when they speed on the highway they DO tend to kick the turtles out of the left lane and keep traffic flowing.
Doing that shit on surface streets is much more dangerous than 4+ lane highways >

Just my take. In most states riding in the left lane is illegal, and studies have show people to sit in the left-hand lane cause more road rage of a most other drivers. If cops started pulling people over more of a riding in the left-hand lane than speeding we might have less people sitting in the left-hand lane. >

This EXACT same thing happened to my friend in his early 20s.  Cop ran a red light in a stupid chase going after a car that fled a checkpoint, and tboned the car my friend was in as it was peacefully crossing the road, killing my friend and injuring his friend who was driving.
Driver was under the legal limit but because she had any alcohol at all in her system, they had the audacity to try to charge her for manslaughter.  She avoided the charges but the cop kept his job and my deceased friend's family were left paying for funeral expenses and without any justice at all.  We all pulled together what money we could to help cover most of the funeral expenses and to fight the legal bullshit that the police pushed onto the driver..  It was absolutely horrific. >

The light had been red for twenty seconds -WTF . Have look at a clock and watch just how long 20 seconds actually is >

I wouldn't be suprised if the jackass was gambling it would trun green as he approached. >

I work at a news station and we shared this story on our page, the amount of people literally trying to find any and all reason to absolve the police officer of guilt is astounding. Some have even gone as far as to blame the girls for not moving out of the way. Crazy. >

Baton Rouge in case anyone was wondering. 
“Clayton has also inquired with the Baton Rouge Police Department about why the pursuit was deemed necessary in Baton Rouge over a home invasion and stolen vehicle, according to a report from The Advocate.
"If it involves putting human life in danger, stop the damn pursuit," Clayton said. "It's just not worth the risk." >

Retired LEO here.
I shake my head at shit I see today. I can only speak for my state which has a robust 30 week, 24/7 Police basic school, and still I am amazed at some of the dumb shits they graduate. I swear some states have a coupon based basic training system for officers.
My state has specific state statues with respect to police chases. It DOES NOT relieve the officer of liability nor does it invoke qualified immunity, you're allowed over speed WITH lights and siren and due regard for the safety of others. Stop lights and signs are absolute before proceeding through and you damn well better have a good reason for chasing someone. Blue or Red lights alone do not give you right of way. ONLY lights and siren and never assume that drivers can hear a siren because chances are, they can't. Officers have been convicted of negligence in several chases where they had their heads firmly up their asses or chasing for 'Contempt of Cop'. Morons....
Now "Damn Good Reason" sound vague. Time of day, traffic flow, rural, urban or highway, type of offense all come into play. Shoplifting? Other simple thefts, Motor vehicle laws ?[ speeding, registration, inspection etc ] simple assaults? No.
Felonies? Armed Robbery, Serious Assault with major injuries?  Rape, Murder, Attempted murder, kidnapping, Firearm reckless conduct, or serious M/V offenses [ Reckless MV conduct, speeding 50+ over, DUI* ] yes, any other 'simple' crime involving a firearm, yes, Given the aforementioned  "Due regard." As a caveat in the law, an officer can never be disciplined for breaking off a chase.
*DUIs are the worst, you need to get drunks off the road while at the same time you don't want to be engaging in a chase where the driver cant drive for shit. Best to call ahead if you can and set up a road block with an escape lane and spike strips.  They work. Magnesium rims are spectacular by the way,
If I were back on the road today, you'd have to be an active kidnapper or known murder suspect for me to engage. That's 30 years experience and several chases when I was young from the "What the fuck were you thinking" file.
For what it's worth.
Edit: Spulling. >

We had cops start a high speed chase here years ago and caused the car they started chasing to t-bone a car carrying a couple teens heading to prom killing one of them. >

Cops are just actively harmful at this point - criminals with statistics themselves, dangerous to the public. This shit has to change. >

Why the fuck was a car being stolen responded to with a police chase across multiple parishes? These chucklefucks want to play action hero and end up killing people all the fucking time.
How hard is it to let a speeding suspect go to protect the general public, and just do more policework later to find the car or suspect? Oh, that's actual work.
Pigs killed more civilians in 2022 than any other recorded year in American history. Looks like 2023 is off to a great start. 🐷👍 >

I feel high speed pursuits should only be in cases of life and death. You got the license plate. It needlessly endangers the public. >

Sorry, did you just suggest that police only need to know the licence plate of a stolen car to find the people who stole it?
This logic fails as soon as you try to actually convict anyone of a crime such as dangerous driving or auto theft as the police need to actually prove who was driving the car at the time of the offence and not just the owner. >

He probably means that they can track the car using its license plate. Use detective work later. >

Would be too bad if someone could just pull a licence plate off and change it. >

Why would that be too bad? You'd see them do it. >

Who would? If the cops aren't following them and are solely relying on the licence not being changed in this stolen car example then driving into a secluded area and changing it isn't exactly the hardest thing in the world.
I'll admit my ignorance but how many stolen cars are actually recovered using passive tracking even now? Successfull Active tracking by cops is probably still a minority of cases but the idea that passive tracking is actually efficient just doesn't pass the smell test for me >

But they are following them? They're using detective work later.
If a blue Honda with the license place ABCDE drives into Anderson St and then later a blue Honda with the license plate VWXYZ leaves Anderson St, it's pretty obvious that it's the same blue Honda with a different license place. >

How many cities have sufficient camera density to be able to do that level of tracking across an entire city?
The cops in this scenario can't tell you where the car went as they haven't kept up with their speed unless they use helicopters which are a limited resource >

More than enough to justify doing basic detective work like this instead of endangering innocents peoples lives for cars. >

He looks exactly like what pretentious cops usually do. >

Mandatory ongoing psychological evaluation for every law enforcement officer. Pulled from duty with pay and no negative repercussions at the first sign of instability. >

Qualified immunity coupled with his so called Superhero uniform fed his inflated ego believing he’s impervious to everything.
Until Qualified immunity is removed you’re not going to stop such blatant disrespect towards loss of life.
You need to bring them back down to earth !!!
It’s not all of them.
There are Good Officers doing the right thing.
But they’re look down upon by officers who don’t care about Constitutional rights and enjoy getting up on their hind legs even with senior citizens. >

He looks to be older and was just hired by the department in February 2022. Probably a shitty cop that got passed around department to department like a catholic priest >

Lol the cops are adding additional charges to the kid for forcing them to have an officer run a red light at 90mph. “Actually it’s his fault”. Like yeah you’re not wrong but you’re not right either >

Nah he is wrong. Cop doesnt get to rob a store you are being drunk and disorderly at and then blame it on you. In both cases they did something they are not supposed to do, and in this case that means he killed 2 people. 
Get the criminal on GTA, get the cop on 2x manslaughter and one injury with great bodily harm. >

Happened in my city recently too. Cop was charged with a misdemeanor, he was going 90+ mph in a dense urban downtown area at 3 am >

No no no 
Why did they buy all the damn helicopters? 
Come to think of it? Where did those things go? 
They were always sweeping the streets.