>

You have never mentioned irregular exercise. I’m a dad of a toddler, working full time. Some things have to move around just as they fit.
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Being a manager is a really good learning experience, because you learn that everyone kinda sucks. Like... everyone. Including you. Including me. 
Everyone thinks they're good workers, but realistically, few are. If you get promoted from worker to manager, you'll first start off thinking that you can finally fix all those problems that your shitty old boss could never fix, because he was such a dumbass. But then you'll pull your hair out trying to get your team to perform to bare minimum standards, while they hate you for being a hardass. Eventually, you'll say "why am I stressing so much? None of the managers before me cared this much." Then you'll stop giving a fuck, and eventually, one of your workers will be promoted to your position, and the cycle continues. >

This guy retails >

Nah, this guy service industrys >

Nah, this guy social works >

One of the most surreal things to happen to me was when I was the day manager of a bar and I got written up for telling one of the waitresses that she needed to wait on customers and do her side work (wrap utensils, fill ketchup, etc) and not just hang out in a booth with her regulars all day. After a week of it (lenient I had thought) I wrote her up. The next day the owner came in to the bar, tore up her write up and wrote me up for creating a hostile work environment. Bizzarre. It was kind of like being in high school there though. Forget meritocracy, the popular employees got special treatment period. One of the bartenders stole thousands from them in unrung drinks and was only ever lightly admonished for it. The owner rationalized 3as the bartender was popular and brought in regulars. Well, of course. He gave them freebies for better tips and a good portion of what he did charged never made it to the register anyway. Like bro- doesn't matter if he's bringing in customers if he's costing you as much as he makes~ >

Idk dude.  The write up thing seems pretty cut and dry although I don’t know why you walked by it for a week then jumped directly to written….
The situation with the popular bartender giving away drinks though seems more like a manager either not understanding the way the owner wants his business run or just deciding he knows better what to do with the booze than both the guy buying it and the lady pouring it. >

I didn't. That was a week of saying something and her rolling her eyes at me before grudgingly going to take orders from customers that I had seated and taken initial drink orders for, and then leaving the side work for others to do and complain about, not a week of me just walking by.
The owner told me daily to tell the bartender to stop, but not to call him out on the freebies in front of customers. I did that, and let them handle the rest per their request. Their shifts took in about half of what other bartenders' did despite being slightly more crowded.  The kitchen did slightly better granted, but the money is in the bar not in the back. 🤷🏻‍♂️ >

Decent chance he was fooling around with the waitress if the turn around was that quick. Either that or one of the staff members or a regular customer that they brought in was a hook up of some sort of difficult item to acquire. This is common in the bar/resturant industry. The owner had other personal reasons for allowing this behavior that benefitted themselves more than the loss of revenue. >

Unrelated to the story, but I find it interesting about how someone shared their experience of a pretty common 'bad owner' situation and you have tried to explain that situation back to them, like you know their situation better and they've explained incorrectly.
Why do you think you know the other persons story enough to try and correct them on it? Are you friends off-reddit? >

because there's enough shitty people in this world, and shitty work environments, that's how he knows. >

Is a case by case scenario, but you are being to one sided to the manager perspective.-
Not all managers are the same, the same way not all workers are the same, or not all work or workplaces or work environments are the same.-
I could bring a lot of counterpoints to this like places where the managers don't try to get people to do their job but to squeeze them for the job or two or more people, or places where there are multiple managers that don't necessarily agree on their working philosophy that leads to receiving multiple often even contradicting orders, etc. Also there are times where is not even the managers fault but what their bosses demand of them, but still they are being used by their bosses to be the face that pass his orders and that absorbs the hatred.-
I have seen a lot of managers sending people to do things that are not in their job description or to cover for other departments they don't belong to, doing work that originally belongs to people that even are paid differently for doing that different thing, or the well known John is going on vacation but we won't hire a temporary replacement you just need to do yours and John's work for two weeks.-
The point being, a lot of managers receive hate because they either by will or by orders from people higher up than themselves also make people do things they didn't sign up for, or work with volumes not intended to be worked by the amount of people processing it, etc.-
So yes, SOME managers DO get a lot of unfair hate and some managers get a lot of DESERVED hate. Just like how some workers just wanna be idle and get a paycheck, and some workers do their are supposed to do.- >

Or nepotism.
Or when you work at a tech company in a specialized role with managers who know nothing about your field asking you to do things that are literally impossible or a lot harder than they sound... And you have to spend most of your time explaining things to them over and over again like talking to a brick wall.
Or, in the same vein, when they schedule endless streams of meetings so they can spew buzzwords about increasing productivity without providing any actual quantifiable solutions.
Or managerial bloat, where managers hire more managers and the solution is always more management so there are more degrees of separation between them and the actual work, therefore decreasing their workload while providing them with some other manager to blame when things go wrong.
Or managers that take all the credit when things go well, but assign all the blame to their underlings when things go wrong.
There are good managers and bad individual contributors... The original post is a pretty one-sided take. >

It feels more like being a babysitter or counselor most of the time. >

You spend your whole career staying out of drama, just to be promoted and suddenly in the middle of ALL the drama >

::Walter White voice::
I am the drama! >

If your existence depended on getting the regular exercise then maybe. But there is only a pseudo voluntarism about work, because in the end you have to work if you want to uphold your standart of living. So because there is a greater power hierarchy I would say your comparison does not work as well as intended. >


If your existence depended on getting the regular exercise then maybe. 

Uh, yes, if you do not get regular exercise, your life will be significantly curtailed. 
If you need a job to survive, isn’t that more reason rather than less to do what your boss tells you? >

I’m currently in my second year without regular exercise and my life is ok. It would be worse if I would be in my second year of unemployment. 
But yes your last point is exactly what I am trying to explain OP. >


I’m currently in my second year without regular exercise and my life is ok.

This is like the guy who fell off a ten-story building. As he fell past each floor, he said “So far, so good.” >

You have never mentioned irregular exercise. I’m a dad of a toddler, working full time. Some things have to move around just as they fit. >

I think everyone in here has made some good points in my opinion.
What I know for sure is I didn't enjoy being in charge of people when I was in the military. I did 14 years with most of it being me telling people what to do. Once I had become a sergeant this especially brought out these feelings. Not because I didn't want any responsibility but because I felt like I had to entertain some junior enlisted soldiers who had expectations from those before me that i would do things the same way and always be right at their side.
The biggest issues I had though was that the soldiers I was in charge of had this mindset that I should still be doing the same things that they were and went behind my back to my supervisor to complain that I wasn't "working". We all had to literally sit down and explain to them that 1) I did not work for them or answer to them and 2) that there were responsibilities and tasks imposed upon me by my superiors that they did not know of and had no need to know.
This especially seemed more so when you're a more junior noncommissioned officer. It's like if your rank isn't high enough then you need to appeal to the junior enlisted more. I was always happy to take care of them but also I won't hold your hand. You need to be able to function on your own, but if you know you're having trouble then you could always come to me. But I shouldn't have to be right next to you to make sure you're not messing up. >

The military is far from perfect, but at the very least it attempts to teach people how to be managers before making them managers (in an ideal manning world). In the army officers have their commissioning source/courses between ranks after 1LT, and NCOs have courses before promotion to each new rank. IME civilian jobs say “you’re good at x, now be in charge of others doing x,” without actually giving any guidance on how to succeed in new roles. I currently see it with attorneys. These people are incredibly successful in the court room, but have never been taught to be a leader, and it (sometimes) ends up creating a toxic environment. The sad part is they (frequently) know they’re failing, but don’t know how to fix it.
Tl;dr: companies would do well to train the people they make leaders on how to be a leader instead of placing them there and expecting success. >

I was a manager for a long time. I’ve had two grown men in my office because they were feuding over who said something to one of our users about the other one.  I asked them what grade we were in and to knock it off ( which they did). 
I could tell 100 more stories just like that. When I got an opportunity to step out of management into a purely technical role, I jumped at it. >

Why do I get the feeling there is a story behind this showerthought?
​
Edit: if this is how you feel about being a manager, don't be a manager. You're doing it wrong. >

People are being really whiny on a group chat with the boss and she’s being pretty reasonable.  Nothing super extreme just made me think about the first day when everyone was pretty enthusiastic still 😂 >

Yeah that happens. Ask anyone who’s ever been in the military, we haven’t been in an actual war in over a decade, but you can’t let people get complacent or they won’t get their ass in gear when it’s time to actually do stuff for real. Thus, the military is infamous for making service members do all sorts of BS, training, exercises, war games, etc. The trick is to keep discipline, keep people engaged, but understand that real world takes precedent over the BS. >

Spoke like someone who's never had to deal with a shitty manager or someone who is the shitty manager >

No chance I’m a good employee who has had both good and bad experiences and is simply currently empathizing slightly with the typically less sympathetic role?
Nah guess that would be crazy >

Working is not volunteer, it's mandatory >

Seems not true.  You must know at least a couple adults who don’t work >

If you are just 'asking people to work' then you aren't a manager. Maybe a supervisor or foreman or something.
Saying managers are people who 'ask people to work' is like saying a conductor is someone who 'asks people to play their instruments' >

Following up is a basic function at all levels of mgmt - I meant that and the resentment people express at being followed up on.
I mean really everyone knows how to get in shape too.  You don’t need a trainer to push/motivate you but if you have one you’re more likely to hit your goals >

Following up is a basic function at all levels of mgmt
What has following up got to do with 'asking people to work'? And who resents being asked for an update? Honestly, if you can't follow up on something without people resenting you, then consider a course?
You don't have to walk up to people with a clipboard and demand if they did what you asked. You can just insert it into general discussion - 'how did that issue with accounts go, did you manage to find a solution? oh, that's great'
A lot of people don't understand the difference between being a boss and being a leader. >

Idk, I feel you’re getting bogged down in definitions.  Who?  The people in this group chat resented being asked for an update, that’s who. Have you had a job (serious)? >

i forget where I volunteered to live in a society where if you don't work, you starve to death in a gutter. >

What country are you in?  It sucks being homeless in my country but you don’t starve and you get shelter at night at least >

whenever managers feel like they're being "socially punished" maybe they should just remember they signed up voluntarily to do that job ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ >

Lol I’ve never heard her acknowledge it but she must complain to someone >

It's AWFUL. I left and went back to being a worker bee at another place. >

It really depends on the people you're managing which really fall into a few groups:

Independent: just give them direction, provide guidance during the processes, and they'll do the rest. Future managers, people you want to mentor.
By the book: everything is black and white, but doesn't understand that we work with fellow humans so requires some intervention. Hope that they learn from your guidance, and become less rigid but some people just want to keep in their lane. Give them something to own and they'll be fine.
Deer in the headlights: seems perpetually confused and/or surprised (especially if you've done this a dozen times already), rarely ever prepared, needs hand held through everything. Intelligence doesn't matter, your their safety blanket for whatever weird reason. These are the associates that this post is in reference to. >


Being a manager (getting social ‘punishment’ for asking people to work)

I've probably had a half dozen management jobs, and I never felt like I was being punished by my crew. Sounds like you have had (or maybe ARE) not great management at work. >

Maybe they just talked behind your back? >

Or maybe, they didn't need to? >

Most managers are talked about behind their back.  If you’ve been a manager you’ve also had a manager and I’m sure you’ve overheard someone express displeasure at least one about each boss.  
Maybe you’re one of the few that it never happened to.  That’s pretty statistically unlikely so since you’ve no way of knowing either way you should assume it’s happened. >

I certainly wasn't perfect, but I feel like people at least did the courtesy of speaking WITH me if they had an issue, not behind my back. Every job I've left has asked me to return, both regional supervisors and the people I used to manage. I think that speaks more than your statistics. >

Seems pretty logical and rational of you I’m sure you’re correct 👍🏾 >

People didn’t exactly sign up to live under capitalism. Saying people volunteered to be there, misses the fact that if they don’t, they will starve to death and be homeless. >

its not voluntarily. it is coerced. very different things. a choice made under duress is not a free choice. >

I need to work to live. Work is usually full of BS that I don't want to do, especially busiwork or other unfulfilling tasks, and anything imposed or unavoidable is easy to resent. I also have very limited opportunity to "fire" my manager.
I don't need to get a trainer to live. If I got one, I actually did volunteer for it, so it's much easier to accept. And if I don't like it, I can fire him or her and get a better fit without much hassle easily. >


Work really isn't voluntary. At best you can be homeless and live off the land but considering most of us are raised in houses it's pretty far fetched to expect that to be a possible expectation
Since you're nearly required to have something that has 4 walls, heat, and running water it'll cost you USD (or whatever your local currency is) and you're basically required to pay said USD monthly until you die or get rich
While we all can choose our jobs we can't quite choose our class and unfortunately the lower class jobs tend to be... Less bearable and downright unfun usually due to management. Sure you can switch jobs but it's quite difficult to move up the ladder to "better quality of life"
The older I get the more I realize managers and owners are (at times) THE LEAST ESSENTIAL TO THE OPERATION). If you're job is quite literally to make sure others do their jobs its sounds a lot more like YOU'RE the one with the issue acrually working. I will say a lot of low level managers do a fair bit of work. But the "quality" of life of moving up the ladder is basically more about being able to do less physical labor and more... Moving the money around documenting that you're paying other people to do the labor. This is extremely well highlighted when it comes to ownership of businesses. At one level of wealth you can simply buy a business and pay employees and pay the poor socially punished manager to make sure they keep making you money. All the while you just skim money off of everything while doing a whole lot of nothing. So yes the managers are socially punished because they've decided to enforce this idea that you MUST work. Why MUST you work? Because you're paying up a made up number for a house that's already built in a system thats designed to pay the people doing the work less than the people "that own the business" I. E. The people not usually doing any work. When I think about going to work everyday I don't NEED the manager to do my job. The only reason I need them is to do the things they won't let me do. I can do my job without them. They can't do their job without me.
With all of the above being said I feel like your argument falls flat. >

Did you see the word “sometimes” in the post? >

A good manager understands that their job is to get rid of the obstacles that make it hard for their team to work.  A manager who fights for efficient processes, stops harassers, prioritizes conflicting demands, and procures replacement equipment when stuff doesn't work is not only popular, they're successful. >

Is this an anti r/antiwork post. Can't wait to see the sub that comes out to counter that. Something like r/9to5. >

r/tastyboot >

If find it that most people are really good, if your decent to them.  But the occasional arseholes that you encounter, do take up a lot if time and mental energy. >

Work or die of starvation/preventable disease is not voluntary. >

Most people don't do the work they do voluntarily though. Not the same way that people go to the gym >

Work is about as voluntary as "if you don't do this you'll be homeless, hungry, and have no access to clean water or medical care" if that's as voluntary as a personal trainer then your analogy is valid. >

I’ve worked as both a personal trainer and as a manager of a tech support group for a software company. Making your clients work hard in the gym is usually fun in a sadistic way, knowing that you’re actually helping them. Reminding salaried employees about work they should be doing or coaching them when needed feels quite a bit more awkward, because in most cases it t makes them feel insecure about their job status and you know they’re probably going to shit-talk you afterwards with their co-workers. >

Bullshit, the manager didn't become a manager on accident, meanwhile, the average person is forced to hold a job under the threat of starvation or homelessness. Calling jobs voluntary is a joke, no one would work a job they hate if they weren't coerced into it. >

Being at that job is voluntary. >

Only if you are a shit manager. If you company is shit and your good your fellow employees will see you as shitty. >

Don’t be a supervisor/manager for a company that treats its employees like shit. Only be a supervisor/manger for good companies. If your company is good people want to keep their jobs there and you can hold people accountable. If your company is shit like mine was, you will have to be a door mat and let them walk all over you to keep them. I never wrote up any of my employees because I knew our facility sucked but god were my employees immature entitled children that walked all over me. You really have no idea how unbelievable some people are. I’m down with anti-works movement but man there are people who use that messaging to justify their dog shit bum ass narcissism. Never again. >

Morale plays a big role in this. People generally don’t talk smack if they feel fulfilled and are paid well. >

This sounds an awful lot like someone trying to defend those who get mad when they try to make you come in on your days off and you refuse. >

Choosing to be a manager in general speaks very poorly to me about that person's priorities. I have met decent managers, however they have all been managers who also still do the work they manage. Literally no other manager I've ever seen is a worthwhile human being. They all drank the kool-aid, bought into the lie that is the American Dream (or its approximation as decided by global capitalists), and they don't care at all who's lives they fuck up until they are the ones taking the blame for one of their bosses fuck ups >

Yep, as a manager, most of my time is spent trying to get people to do what I am paying them to do, work!  I had this issue this morning, lady called and wanted me to find someone to cover her shift, like the 3rd or 4th time since the beginning of the year.   So I’m just replacing her permanently. >

Aren't both things your job ? Managing schedules and replacing employees who skip work? >

I shouldn’t have to beg people to just show up and do their job.  Too many are soft and want to take off because it’s rainy or cold or they have a hangnail!  Everyone wants a pat on the back or to be constantly praised.  As a manager I don’t mind letting someone know they did a good job but I’m not a cheerleader.  I tell everyone their appreciation comes every two weeks. >

Having a personal trainer is voluntary
Having a job is not
Imagine being this uneducated on wage slavery >

Having a job is voluntary.  Having money is not.  
Many people don’t work through either inheritance, early retirement spousal support or government assistance.  Many more own their own  small businesses and while they work they don’t have jobs.  Some people have a side job that isn’t necessary to their lifestyle in a major way.  
I know that’s a small minority but wage slavery?  How dramatic dude >

It is! Sometimes I feel like I'm crazy for insisting my employees actually work instead of just sitting down and being on their phone. Then I'm the bad guy when I cut their hours. It's like figure it the fuck out. You wanted the job so do the work. It's such a slap in the face to the rest of us who do work hard. I'm the manager but I still clean bathrooms. Nothing is beneath me. >

“Social punishment”. Once you’ve hit manager status you don’t really care what everyone else thinks because you already make more than everyone and you tell them to do things so you kind of just expect them to hate you or feel feelings of deep anger. Life is a social punishment. Lol >

I managed the rig grip dept. on some of your favorite films the past 13 years. I’m here to say that Hollywood is fucking evil and even a so-called kush union job still consists of shit humans who want something for nothing. Almost every employee on a movie or tv show is doing massive amounts of drugs and alcohol just to stay in a zone that reflects their mind controlled pattern of thought. Same thing goes for any minimum wage job. Condition them through social media to hate work and expect handouts while continuing the process by encouraging the propaganda to circulate. It’s fucking genius actually. So yes, it feels like that as a manager of anything of importance to today’s society. To be extra fucking clear, I left an extremely well paying career because Hollywood is literally fucking Satan. Boycott movies and tv. They’re rotting you from the inside out. >

Manager for 13 years, supervisor for cumulative 4 years prior to that. Highly consider my job to be babysitting adults and solving petty squabbles. People have no chill, people are selfish, immature, ignorant, willfully arrogant, lazy. And this is while theyre getting paid. Sometimes I miss my menial task related jobs where I could do the same thing for 8 hours and repeat for weeks on end without thought or having to care about anyone else.. then I realize this difficult job I do enables my lifestyle and sense of accomplishment. Its not always worth it but when Im not deciding between paying the hydro bill, buying pet food and buying food for myself it is. The pets ate and the hydro bill got paid for those curious. >

The tails side of the coin: being a trainee to a personal trainer is not the same as being a subordinate to a manager. The personal trainer can be fired. >

We were writing down everything, because the workforce had ballooned and some procedures were confusing. Big boss realized that everyone has been having a paid "working" lunch every day when we tried to codify it.
Handbook comes out and the only thing anyone wants to talk about is how they feel like their lunch hour "benifit" was "taken away". We begged and pleaded for the workers to tell us how we could make it right without paying for an hour they don't work every day, nobody had any ideas. Eventually, we said it'll happen in a few weeks, nobody has left yet. But I could promise them they won't get promised a paid lunch hour anywhere. >

By manager, you mean middle manager, correct? I was HoD at uni for a degree program. Under me was around 25 lecturers, 5 lab staff and 2 admin staff. There were about 250 students. Some managers got big headed and thunk they made it. In reality, middle managers are the equivalent of a sergeant in the military, a non-com officer with all the duties but none of the perks of a commissioned officer. As such, I took it as my duty to be the shit shield for my staff against the "top brass". Non-academic uni management love to implement hare brained schemes based on what they read on Linkedin(lunatics). I had to fight daily battles to keep them at bay. I also had to keep the peace and maintain morale among my staff. PhD holders, especially in the medical field tend to have huge egos. 
The biggest mistake newly promoted managers make is thinking that you finally became one of the elite and start to behave like one. Nothing is further from the truth. >

You are a middle manager >

I always hate those managers who fear "social punishment" from their subordinates, so they just won't do their job and only pretend they're going to.  
Like sure man: you don't get paid enough to jeapordize your friendships. But who told you to make friends with your subordinates? Also if you're not willing to stand up to your friends for the pay offered then why did you accept the position knowing it would entail doing so?. 
And then you complain about it to their boss but it's the same at all levels of the organization so nothing comes of it.  
There ought to be a license for running a business that gets revoked if it's ever proven you communicated a policy to your employees that you did not intend to actually enforce. You can't stand up to people? Then you're not qualified to be in charge of anyone. >

Except for on the days you assign mandatory overtime then its like being a personal trainer that kicks your door down and says: "get dressed loser, GYM TIME!" >

Key difference between working a job and going to the gym is the outcome. One is inherently beneficial to health, the other is completely the opposite. 'Voluntarily' or free will has little to do with the feeling you get from the act IMO. Work can be a rewarding experience, only when the outcome is desirable. >

This is a friendly reminder to read our rules.
Remember, /r/Showerthoughts is for showerthoughts, not "thoughts had in the shower!"
(For an explanation of what a "showerthought" is, please read this page.)
Rule-breaking posts may result in bans. >

Being a manager is a really good learning experience, because you learn that everyone kinda sucks. Like... everyone. Including you. Including me. 
Everyone thinks they're good workers, but realistically, few are. If you get promoted from worker to manager, you'll first start off thinking that you can finally fix all those problems that your shitty old boss could never fix, because he was such a dumbass. But then you'll pull your hair out trying to get your team to perform to bare minimum standards, while they hate you for being a hardass. Eventually, you'll say "why am I stressing so much? None of the managers before me cared this much." Then you'll stop giving a fuck, and eventually, one of your workers will be promoted to your position, and the cycle continues. >

This guy retails >

Nah, this guy service industrys >

Nah, this guy social works >

Why not all of these? >

Retail+service industry+social work? So a bartender then >

One of the most surreal things to happen to me was when I was the day manager of a bar and I got written up for telling one of the waitresses that she needed to wait on customers and do her side work (wrap utensils, fill ketchup, etc) and not just hang out in a booth with her regulars all day. After a week of it (lenient I had thought) I wrote her up. The next day the owner came in to the bar, tore up her write up and wrote me up for creating a hostile work environment. Bizzarre. It was kind of like being in high school there though. Forget meritocracy, the popular employees got special treatment period. One of the bartenders stole thousands from them in unrung drinks and was only ever lightly admonished for it. The owner rationalized 3as the bartender was popular and brought in regulars. Well, of course. He gave them freebies for better tips and a good portion of what he did charged never made it to the register anyway. Like bro- doesn't matter if he's bringing in customers if he's costing you as much as he makes~ >

Idk dude.  The write up thing seems pretty cut and dry although I don’t know why you walked by it for a week then jumped directly to written….
The situation with the popular bartender giving away drinks though seems more like a manager either not understanding the way the owner wants his business run or just deciding he knows better what to do with the booze than both the guy buying it and the lady pouring it. >

I didn't. That was a week of saying something and her rolling her eyes at me before grudgingly going to take orders from customers that I had seated and taken initial drink orders for, and then leaving the side work for others to do and complain about, not a week of me just walking by.
The owner told me daily to tell the bartender to stop, but not to call him out on the freebies in front of customers. I did that, and let them handle the rest per their request. Their shifts took in about half of what other bartenders' did despite being slightly more crowded.  The kitchen did slightly better granted, but the money is in the bar not in the back. 🤷🏻‍♂️ >

Decent chance he was fooling around with the waitress if the turn around was that quick. Either that or one of the staff members or a regular customer that they brought in was a hook up of some sort of difficult item to acquire. This is common in the bar/resturant industry. The owner had other personal reasons for allowing this behavior that benefitted themselves more than the loss of revenue. >

Unrelated to the story, but I find it interesting about how someone shared their experience of a pretty common 'bad owner' situation and you have tried to explain that situation back to them, like you know their situation better and they've explained incorrectly.
Why do you think you know the other persons story enough to try and correct them on it? Are you friends off-reddit? >

because there's enough shitty people in this world, and shitty work environments, that's how he knows. >

I think everyone in here has made some good points in my opinion.
What I know for sure is I didn't enjoy being in charge of people when I was in the military. I did 14 years with most of it being me telling people what to do. Once I had become a sergeant this especially brought out these feelings. Not because I didn't want any responsibility but because I felt like I had to entertain some junior enlisted soldiers who had expectations from those before me that i would do things the same way and always be right at their side.
The biggest issues I had though was that the soldiers I was in charge of had this mindset that I should still be doing the same things that they were and went behind my back to my supervisor to complain that I wasn't "working". We all had to literally sit down and explain to them that 1) I did not work for them or answer to them and 2) that there were responsibilities and tasks imposed upon me by my superiors that they did not know of and had no need to know.
This especially seemed more so when you're a more junior noncommissioned officer. It's like if your rank isn't high enough then you need to appeal to the junior enlisted more. I was always happy to take care of them but also I won't hold your hand. You need to be able to function on your own, but if you know you're having trouble then you could always come to me. But I shouldn't have to be right next to you to make sure you're not messing up. >

The military is far from perfect, but at the very least it attempts to teach people how to be managers before making them managers (in an ideal manning world). In the army officers have their commissioning source/courses between ranks after 1LT, and NCOs have courses before promotion to each new rank. IME civilian jobs say “you’re good at x, now be in charge of others doing x,” without actually giving any guidance on how to succeed in new roles. I currently see it with attorneys. These people are incredibly successful in the court room, but have never been taught to be a leader, and it (sometimes) ends up creating a toxic environment. The sad part is they (frequently) know they’re failing, but don’t know how to fix it.
Tl;dr: companies would do well to train the people they make leaders on how to be a leader instead of placing them there and expecting success. >

Is a case by case scenario, but you are being to one sided to the manager perspective.-
Not all managers are the same, the same way not all workers are the same, or not all work or workplaces or work environments are the same.-
I could bring a lot of counterpoints to this like places where the managers don't try to get people to do their job but to squeeze them for the job or two or more people, or places where there are multiple managers that don't necessarily agree on their working philosophy that leads to receiving multiple often even contradicting orders, etc. Also there are times where is not even the managers fault but what their bosses demand of them, but still they are being used by their bosses to be the face that pass his orders and that absorbs the hatred.-
I have seen a lot of managers sending people to do things that are not in their job description or to cover for other departments they don't belong to, doing work that originally belongs to people that even are paid differently for doing that different thing, or the well known John is going on vacation but we won't hire a temporary replacement you just need to do yours and John's work for two weeks.-
The point being, a lot of managers receive hate because they either by will or by orders from people higher up than themselves also make people do things they didn't sign up for, or work with volumes not intended to be worked by the amount of people processing it, etc.-
So yes, SOME managers DO get a lot of unfair hate and some managers get a lot of DESERVED hate. Just like how some workers just wanna be idle and get a paycheck, and some workers do their are supposed to do.- >

Or nepotism.
Or when you work at a tech company in a specialized role with managers who know nothing about your field asking you to do things that are literally impossible or a lot harder than they sound... And you have to spend most of your time explaining things to them over and over again like talking to a brick wall.
Or, in the same vein, when they schedule endless streams of meetings so they can spew buzzwords about increasing productivity without providing any actual quantifiable solutions.
Or managerial bloat, where managers hire more managers and the solution is always more management so there are more degrees of separation between them and the actual work, therefore decreasing their workload while providing them with some other manager to blame when things go wrong.
Or managers that take all the credit when things go well, but assign all the blame to their underlings when things go wrong.
There are good managers and bad individual contributors... The original post is a pretty one-sided take. >

It feels more like being a babysitter or counselor most of the time. >

You spend your whole career staying out of drama, just to be promoted and suddenly in the middle of ALL the drama >


whole career staying out of drama, just to be promoted and suddenly in the middle of ALL the drama

Gods i wish i could upvote you more >

It really depends on the people you're managing which really fall into a few groups:

Independent: just give them direction, provide guidance during the processes, and they'll do the rest. Future managers, people you want to mentor.
By the book: everything is black and white, but doesn't understand that we work with fellow humans so requires some intervention. Hope that they learn from your guidance, and become less rigid but some people just want to keep in their lane. Give them something to own and they'll be fine.
Deer in the headlights: seems perpetually confused and/or surprised (especially if you've done this a dozen times already), rarely ever prepared, needs hand held through everything. Intelligence doesn't matter, your their safety blanket for whatever weird reason. These are the associates that this post is in reference to. >

People didn’t exactly sign up to live under capitalism. Saying people volunteered to be there, misses the fact that if they don’t, they will starve to death and be homeless. >

If your existence depended on getting the regular exercise then maybe. But there is only a pseudo voluntarism about work, because in the end you have to work if you want to uphold your standart of living. So because there is a greater power hierarchy I would say your comparison does not work as well as intended. >


If your existence depended on getting the regular exercise then maybe. 

Uh, yes, if you do not get regular exercise, your life will be significantly curtailed. 
If you need a job to survive, isn’t that more reason rather than less to do what your boss tells you? >

I’m currently in my second year without regular exercise and my life is ok. It would be worse if I would be in my second year of unemployment. 
But yes your last point is exactly what I am trying to explain OP. >


I’m currently in my second year without regular exercise and my life is ok.

This is like the guy who fell off a ten-story building. As he fell past each floor, he said “So far, so good.”