>

Following up is a basic function at all levels of mgmt - I meant that and the resentment people express at being followed up on.
I mean really everyone knows how to get in shape too.  You don’t need a trainer to push/motivate you but if you have one you’re more likely to hit your goals
This is a friendly reminder to read our rules.
Remember, /r/Showerthoughts is for showerthoughts, not "thoughts had in the shower!"
(For an explanation of what a "showerthought" is, please read this page.)
Rule-breaking posts may result in bans. >

Being a manager is a really good learning experience, because you learn that everyone kinda sucks. Like... everyone. Including you. Including me. 
Everyone thinks they're good workers, but realistically, few are. If you get promoted from worker to manager, you'll first start off thinking that you can finally fix all those problems that your shitty old boss could never fix, because he was such a dumbass. But then you'll pull your hair out trying to get your team to perform to bare minimum standards, while they hate you for being a hardass. Eventually, you'll say "why am I stressing so much? None of the managers before me cared this much." Then you'll stop giving a fuck, and eventually, one of your workers will be promoted to your position, and the cycle continues. >

This guy retails >

Nah, this guy service industrys >

Nah, this guy social works >

One of the most surreal things to happen to me was when I was the day manager of a bar and I got written up for telling one of the waitresses that she needed to wait on customers and do her side work (wrap utensils, fill ketchup, etc) and not just hang out in a booth with her regulars all day. After a week of it (lenient I had thought) I wrote her up. The next day the owner came in to the bar, tore up her write up and wrote me up for creating a hostile work environment. Bizzarre. It was kind of like being in high school there though. Forget meritocracy, the popular employees got special treatment period. One of the bartenders stole thousands from them in unrung drinks and was only ever lightly admonished for it. The owner rationalized 3as the bartender was popular and brought in regulars. Well, of course. He gave them freebies for better tips and a good portion of what he did charged never made it to the register anyway. Like bro- doesn't matter if he's bringing in customers if he's costing you as much as he makes~ >

Idk dude.  The write up thing seems pretty cut and dry although I don’t know why you walked by it for a week then jumped directly to written….
The situation with the popular bartender giving away drinks though seems more like a manager either not understanding the way the owner wants his business run or just deciding he knows better what to do with the booze than both the guy buying it and the lady pouring it. >

I didn't. That was a week of saying something and her rolling her eyes at me before grudgingly going to take orders from customers that I had seated and taken initial drink orders for, and then leaving the side work for others to do and complain about, not a week of me just walking by.
The owner told me daily to tell the bartender to stop, but not to call him out on the freebies in front of customers. I did that, and let them handle the rest per their request. Their shifts took in about half of what other bartenders' did despite being slightly more crowded.  The kitchen did slightly better granted, but the money is in the bar not in the back. 🤷🏻‍♂️ >

Decent chance he was fooling around with the waitress if the turn around was that quick. Either that or one of the staff members or a regular customer that they brought in was a hook up of some sort of difficult item to acquire. This is common in the bar/resturant industry. The owner had other personal reasons for allowing this behavior that benefitted themselves more than the loss of revenue. >

Unrelated to the story, but I find it interesting about how someone shared their experience of a pretty common 'bad owner' situation and you have tried to explain that situation back to them, like you know their situation better and they've explained incorrectly.
Why do you think you know the other persons story enough to try and correct them on it? Are you friends off-reddit? >

because there's enough shitty people in this world, and shitty work environments, that's how he knows. >

Is a case by case scenario, but you are being to one sided to the manager perspective.-
Not all managers are the same, the same way not all workers are the same, or not all work or workplaces or work environments are the same.-
I could bring a lot of counterpoints to this like places where the managers don't try to get people to do their job but to squeeze them for the job or two or more people, or places where there are multiple managers that don't necessarily agree on their working philosophy that leads to receiving multiple often even contradicting orders, etc. Also there are times where is not even the managers fault but what their bosses demand of them, but still they are being used by their bosses to be the face that pass his orders and that absorbs the hatred.-
I have seen a lot of managers sending people to do things that are not in their job description or to cover for other departments they don't belong to, doing work that originally belongs to people that even are paid differently for doing that different thing, or the well known John is going on vacation but we won't hire a temporary replacement you just need to do yours and John's work for two weeks.-
The point being, a lot of managers receive hate because they either by will or by orders from people higher up than themselves also make people do things they didn't sign up for, or work with volumes not intended to be worked by the amount of people processing it, etc.-
So yes, SOME managers DO get a lot of unfair hate and some managers get a lot of DESERVED hate. Just like how some workers just wanna be idle and get a paycheck, and some workers do their are supposed to do.- >

Or nepotism.
Or when you work at a tech company in a specialized role with managers who know nothing about your field asking you to do things that are literally impossible or a lot harder than they sound... And you have to spend most of your time explaining things to them over and over again like talking to a brick wall.
Or, in the same vein, when they schedule endless streams of meetings so they can spew buzzwords about increasing productivity without providing any actual quantifiable solutions.
Or managerial bloat, where managers hire more managers and the solution is always more management so there are more degrees of separation between them and the actual work, therefore decreasing their workload while providing them with some other manager to blame when things go wrong.
Or managers that take all the credit when things go well, but assign all the blame to their underlings when things go wrong.
There are good managers and bad individual contributors... The original post is a pretty one-sided take. >

It feels more like being a babysitter or counselor most of the time. >

You spend your whole career staying out of drama, just to be promoted and suddenly in the middle of ALL the drama >

::Walter White voice::
I am the drama! >

If your existence depended on getting the regular exercise then maybe. But there is only a pseudo voluntarism about work, because in the end you have to work if you want to uphold your standart of living. So because there is a greater power hierarchy I would say your comparison does not work as well as intended. >


If your existence depended on getting the regular exercise then maybe. 

Uh, yes, if you do not get regular exercise, your life will be significantly curtailed. 
If you need a job to survive, isn’t that more reason rather than less to do what your boss tells you? >

I’m currently in my second year without regular exercise and my life is ok. It would be worse if I would be in my second year of unemployment. 
But yes your last point is exactly what I am trying to explain OP. >


I’m currently in my second year without regular exercise and my life is ok.

This is like the guy who fell off a ten-story building. As he fell past each floor, he said “So far, so good.” >

You have never mentioned irregular exercise. I’m a dad of a toddler, working full time. Some things have to move around just as they fit. >

I think everyone in here has made some good points in my opinion.
What I know for sure is I didn't enjoy being in charge of people when I was in the military. I did 14 years with most of it being me telling people what to do. Once I had become a sergeant this especially brought out these feelings. Not because I didn't want any responsibility but because I felt like I had to entertain some junior enlisted soldiers who had expectations from those before me that i would do things the same way and always be right at their side.
The biggest issues I had though was that the soldiers I was in charge of had this mindset that I should still be doing the same things that they were and went behind my back to my supervisor to complain that I wasn't "working". We all had to literally sit down and explain to them that 1) I did not work for them or answer to them and 2) that there were responsibilities and tasks imposed upon me by my superiors that they did not know of and had no need to know.
This especially seemed more so when you're a more junior noncommissioned officer. It's like if your rank isn't high enough then you need to appeal to the junior enlisted more. I was always happy to take care of them but also I won't hold your hand. You need to be able to function on your own, but if you know you're having trouble then you could always come to me. But I shouldn't have to be right next to you to make sure you're not messing up. >

The military is far from perfect, but at the very least it attempts to teach people how to be managers before making them managers (in an ideal manning world). In the army officers have their commissioning source/courses between ranks after 1LT, and NCOs have courses before promotion to each new rank. IME civilian jobs say “you’re good at x, now be in charge of others doing x,” without actually giving any guidance on how to succeed in new roles. I currently see it with attorneys. These people are incredibly successful in the court room, but have never been taught to be a leader, and it (sometimes) ends up creating a toxic environment. The sad part is they (frequently) know they’re failing, but don’t know how to fix it.
Tl;dr: companies would do well to train the people they make leaders on how to be a leader instead of placing them there and expecting success. >

I was a manager for a long time. I’ve had two grown men in my office because they were feuding over who said something to one of our users about the other one.  I asked them what grade we were in and to knock it off ( which they did). 
I could tell 100 more stories just like that. When I got an opportunity to step out of management into a purely technical role, I jumped at it. >

Why do I get the feeling there is a story behind this showerthought?
​
Edit: if this is how you feel about being a manager, don't be a manager. You're doing it wrong. >

People are being really whiny on a group chat with the boss and she’s being pretty reasonable.  Nothing super extreme just made me think about the first day when everyone was pretty enthusiastic still 😂 >

Yeah that happens. Ask anyone who’s ever been in the military, we haven’t been in an actual war in over a decade, but you can’t let people get complacent or they won’t get their ass in gear when it’s time to actually do stuff for real. Thus, the military is infamous for making service members do all sorts of BS, training, exercises, war games, etc. The trick is to keep discipline, keep people engaged, but understand that real world takes precedent over the BS. >

Spoke like someone who's never had to deal with a shitty manager or someone who is the shitty manager >

No chance I’m a good employee who has had both good and bad experiences and is simply currently empathizing slightly with the typically less sympathetic role?
Nah guess that would be crazy >

Working is not volunteer, it's mandatory >

Seems not true.  You must know at least a couple adults who don’t work >

If you are just 'asking people to work' then you aren't a manager. Maybe a supervisor or foreman or something.
Saying managers are people who 'ask people to work' is like saying a conductor is someone who 'asks people to play their instruments'