>

Must be a russian plot involved behind this
That's a tough loss for a country at war with its neighbour:

Interior Minister Denys Monastyrsky, responsible for the police and security inside Ukraine, would be the most senior Ukrainian official to die since the war began.
National police chief Ihor Klymenko said Interior Minister Denys Monastyrskyi had been killed alongside his first deputy, Yevheniy Yenin, and other officials in a helicopter belonging to the state emergency service.

Edit: included another quote >

This has been an extremely tough week for Ukraine. >

Something else happened? >

The Dnipro apartment bombing. >

40 killed and over 46 still missing. >

I don’t want to sound morbid, but I heard that at least some missing are presumed to be impossible to find as they have been destroyed… that’s incredibly sad on top of the already sad situation for anybody involved. >

Thats usually what "missing" implies in extreme cases. Like that airplane crash recently. 6 people missing, they've probably suffered such horrific impacts they completely disintegrated and any pieces of them are beyond recognition >

Its unfortunately similar to 9/11. People were either crushed by thousands of pounds of debris and rubble, buried alive, or burned in the explosion. Its really sad. I hope that people in Ukraine don't need to wait years to learn what happened to their family like the people of NYC did. >

Most of the missing from that are supposedly from the rubble near the subway where temperatures would have been hot enough to cremate them according to rescuers at the time… now that’s morbid. >

I know someone who was an insurance investigator in NYC at the time. It took something like 6 weeks for the WTC debris to stabilize enough that it was safe to enter the underground carpark. In that 6 weeks he retired, he just didn't want the last thing he worked on to be identifying the cars of people who were killed that day.
Weirdly enough he said that when they did get in there the underground carpark was mostly intact and a shit load of cars were repossessed and resold. >

Non-combat helicopters and transport planes are flying very low in Kyiv and other places that are far from the fighting because of the risk of being shot down by Russian S-400s anti-aircraft missile systems in Belarus. >

Possibly. Still, maybe not the best idea to put all your eggs in one basket :( >

All your eggs in one basket.., in this economy? Absolutely not. >

Look mate, if I could afford a second basket in this economy you can be damned sure I wouldn't be taking both of them out on the town at the same time. >

It’s eggs or basket, a decision had to be made. >

I could totally digest a basket. >

I think it happened because it's really foggy these days in Brovary, the city where the chopper crashed and they were flying on a low altitude. Anyway, it is a really weird situation. I have a lot of questions. Why would they fly during a bad weather? Why was there so many government officials in one helicopter? What was the purpose of the flight in the first place? >

Sometimes you gotta fly, and in war you gotta fly low.
It’s on the pilots to tell their bosses when things get too risky, but their risk tolerance is a bit fucked up right now. War does that 🤷‍♂️ >

I mean we can speculate all we like, but it might have been as simple as they wanted to do this now to boost morale. They thought the risk was worth it for the war. >

Yep. I'm sure they 100% worked out the risk and understood what was involved. Not dismissing anything, it's a tough thing. You can be 99% sure something won't happen, but that doesn't mean that 1% won't pop up. >

Lot's of pilots push things in bad weather because it works most of the time.  I work with pilots that fly in weather that I wouldn't.  Inadvertent flight into low visibility is the #1 killer of helicopters, not something to fuck around with >

Kobe's helicopter crashed for the same reason too if I'm not mistaken. >

correct >

Yo! your username is even more creepy in this situation. >

Some sources says at least two kindergartners dead, several injured. >

Damn it man, can't even imagine those parents' worst nightmare coming true so shockingly. 
This just broke my heart. >

The thought of a devastated classroom full of flesh all over educational resources (kids books, alphabets, etc.) sounds like pure PTSD fuel.
It reminds me of a photo that came out after the Dnipro apartment missle massacre. Amidst the rubble was a colorful teen book aimed at girls.
Stuff like that shows the humanity in situations like this. Much more closer to home. >

Crashed into a kindergardens playground.
JFC. >

Why would you put so many important people in a single vehicle? That's way too risky, especially during the war. >

Happened many times in history, even recently. Polish government plane, for example. Another plane with Soviet military command. Shit happens. >

That soviet plane crash was nuts >

Isn't that a similar reason to why Aaliyah's plane went down? Overloaded & they ignored the warnings? >

Same thing happened to a US military aircraft in Afghanistan a few years back.  I think it was transporting tanks or other heavy machinery which shifted when the plane was taking off and changed the center of gravity beyond the point the pilot could adjust for.
Video here - man it's been a while since I've seen that, pretty wild.  What a helpless feeling that must have been in the last few moments. >

That was the loadmasters fucking up when securing the cargo, not the pilot trying to do anything unsafe >

The loadmasters didn't fuck up, National Airlines did. 
From the wiki:
The NTSB determined that the probable cause of this accident was "National Airlines' inadequate procedures for restraining special cargo loads, which resulted in the loadmaster's improper restraint of the cargo." >

I flew on that airline which was chartered from Bagram (Kabul) to Dubai several times a day. I’m sure they flew other places in country, but they flew from Bagram to Kandahar to Dubai and back every day. It was based in the Philippines I think, most of their staff was Filipino. Ash trays in arm rests and the ac didn’t work very well. Most unsafe I ever felt while flying. I was on the base when this happened. Didn’t know it was a loading issue, we ran the MCT at BAF. >

Got to love all the arm chair military strategic planners on Reddit. I mean I've seen the Sec Def, Sec State and a couple 2-4 star general officers on the same plane in the middle east. Sometimes you have to eat the risk. >

I love watching these people try to Monday morning QB a country that's been at war for almost a year. Hot meme. >

Seriously some of y’all would enjoy your stay at r/nfl >


It was dark and foggy at the time of the crash and initial reports suggest the helicopter hit the kindergarten before crashing close to a residential building.  

They must have been flying right at the deck for that to happen. Either that or it's a very tall kindergarten.  
Every day more and more lives are snuffed out by this war. Russia need to gtfo of Ukraine. >

Even huge transport planes are flying low near Kyiv to avoid being shot down by long-range Russian anti-aircraft missiles located in Belarus. >

Which makes you question why they were flying by helicopter. I'm sure we'll find out more as the day goes on, but it seems risky to send ministers by helicopter rather than by train or car. >

Not just ministers, but both the interior minister and the deputy interior minister.
That's just insane, even in peacetime. >

It’s also very very common, very few cabinet members are split up during travel in most countries, usually just the prime minister/Presiden levels >

To be fair most countries don’t have to worry about having their choppers shot down over their own territory. >

Exactly, all that most countries need to worry about is some freak accident during normal operation. Flying your helicopters so low to the ground to avoid being hit with anti-air from a neighbouring country that they crash into a two story building isn't normal peacetime operation. >

Also for country thats not dealing with crisis losing minister and their deputy is less of a problem. Ukraine is at war, and these people had jobs important to the war effort... >

I would think that travelling by ground transport would be the default in wartime even if the frontline is thousands of km away… RIP to them. >

Ukraine has heavily mined the northern part of the country to prevent a second invasion of Kyiv. Depending on where they were coming to/from, ground transport may not have been doable at all. >

Not to argue whether they should’ve done it or not, but just to address this particular point as a volunteer who’s been all over Ukraine. The roads up North are mostly all drivable. What they have done is load every bridge with explosives and dig trenches so long the russians would be completely mowed down if they tried to approach.
You’d be surprised how easy it is to travel around the country. Even in Izyum, Kupyansk, Kherson etc, the roads are mostly accessible. Even Vovchansk, which is right on the russian border, you can go. They don’t wanna cut off humanitarian aid/civilians from traveling, but walking off into forests or fields might be a death sentence however. I frequently see signs at the side of the road indicating it’s mined. >

I have a buddy that fought with the Ukraine Foreign Legion and he said the same thing. Very easy to get around. So much so that when his platoon got taken out by artillery and surrounded by Russians he was able to make it back to the UAF with a missing leg and a destroyed prosthetic (he lost his leg in his first Ukraine deployment). Dude is a fuckin beast >

Poor kids, it's bad enough for those in the helicopter >

Paulie reads headline and turns to Chris
"You're not gonna believe this. He killed sixteen Czechoslovakians. The guy was an interior decorator." >

His house looked like shit >

Shit >

Well this is a bummer. They have enough death there without accidents like this happening. How sad. >

Yeah, that's not exactly the news I hoped for. 
And there is a celebration in russian telegram channels already. Classic >

The most progress the Russian war effort has made in a year, and it was an accident. >

I don't know if you are just kidding but the loss of soledar is a bit of Russian progress.
Ukraine needs more gear and man, seemingly the momentum is swinging at least a little.
Not a good thing. >

Isnt Soledar strategically quite unimportant? >

Ukraine lost over a thousand defending it.
If it wasn't strategically important neither side would have tried that hard to capture/defend it.
Its the propaganda cycle. The side taking the loss says its unimportant the other side says its critical.
Meanwhile man die like weeds in winter. >

How many did Russia lose to try gain it? >

At least as much but that's not the argument.
Ukraine needs their man more than Russia needs convicts. 
The argument is that the place holds some value and losing it is a loss.
Its indicative that more material is needed. >

Why would they possibly have their Interior Minister and First Deputy on the same helicopter? >

Sometimes in combat you just have to eat the risk. >

lots of Aviation Experts in this thread >

Fuck >

Damn... that's a rough loss. I hope whoever takes over can do as good a job, and maybe even a better one then this poor guy. Ukraine needs talented leaders right now more then ever. >

Is it accident or attack by the enemy? >

Russians are so weak >

Helicopters are so fucking dangerous man >

Choppers seem really dangerous. Why do people keep using them? >

Like many things that suck, the alternatives suck worse. >

they were shot down? or did it crash by other means >

Very thick fog according to BBC and they crashed into the building >

My condolences. Allow me a comment: don‘t fly in a helicopter, if you can help it. There is virtually no recovery from an error, and an unrecovered error means death. In most cases, there are acceptable alternatives.
This goes doubly so in an active war zone. >

...and if the towns, cities, and streets have been turned into piles of rubble, what do you suggest...? >

I heard he killed 16 Chechens, guy was an interior decorator. >

He washed his balls in ice water. >

We’re not lost, stop gettin cunty. >

Mix it with the relish!