>


More than 20 people testified against Senate Bill 235, concerned that it could keep teachers from including gravitational theory, evolution and cell theory in curriculum.

Gravitational Theory
I'm not sure what they are talking about here, because gravity is observable and testable, which means that it could be included in curriculum. it meets the definition of science fact laid out in the bill. This sounds like fear mongering.
Evolution
sounds like this bill is designed to kill teaching evolution. but that may be a valid effort.
Heres what 34 non-christian origins of life researchers wrote about evolution in 2018 in a paper about origins of life research:

The latter idea [Darwinian Evolution] was developed at a time when the earliest living cells were considered to be exceedingly simple structures that could subsequently evolve in a Darwinian way. These ideas should of course have been critically examined and rejected after the discovery of the exceedingly complex molecular structures involved in proteins and in DNA. But this did not happen.
The transformation of an ensemble of appropriately chosen biological monomers (e.g. amino acids, nucleotides) into a primitive living cell capable of further evolution appears to require overcoming an information hurdle of superastronomical proportions (Appendix A), an event that could not have happened within the time frame of the Earth except, we believe, as a miracle

although to be technical, schools teach molecular evolution and darwinian evolution blended together, and these are very different topics, but they are not differentiated to the students. all that "primordial soup" nonsense is not darwinian evolution, its molecular evolution, and it definitely should not be taught, because its highly inaccurate and nothing we understand about biochem suppports it.
cell theory
again this is testable and observable so it qualifies to be taught under the bill. more fear mongering.
Maybe they should require a GED to hold public office in Montana? >

Lauren Bobert has entered the chat. >

Only took her what, three tries?
Still better than McCarthy's speaker vote! >

The fact she won at all. And the won reelection is why I've lost all faith in humanity. >

Not humanity just Americans. >

China and North Korean spy balloons, Russia trying to start World War III, America being America. And everyone actively ignoring all the warning signs of the impact of climate change while the 1% work to fuck everyone over even more.
I try not to think about this stuff though, just take a edible and play video games while I wait for the heat blast. I'm close enough to DC. >

Sigh. I feel ya... >

Im not joking about the edibles. Shit has been life changing when it comes to managing anxiety or getting a good night's sleep. >

Yep. Wholeheartedly agree! >

"If we operate on the assumption that a theory is fact, unfortunately, 
it leads us to asking questions that may be potentially based on false 
assumptions," Emrich said
Clearly he has no idea what the definition of scientific theory is, what it does, how it is arrived at and how science advances by the repeated examination of theories works. He could probably do with a good BA degree, if he could get into college that is. >

I think he’s conflating theory with hypothesis. >

Basically. He's conflating the scientific use of theory versus the common usage. Most people use the word in place of hypothesis in non-scientific usage. >

Apparently, the concept of a symbol that can mean more than one thing has eluded him. >

Very ironic. >


The bill is sponsored by freshman Republican Senator Daniel Emrich from Great Falls. In his testimony, Emrich said the bill would make sure students are taught what a scientific fact is.  
"If we operate on the assumption that a theory is fact, unfortunately, it leads us to asking questions that may be potentially based on false assumptions," Emrich said.

Emrich stringing words together will no basic understanding of the scientific method. >


Emrich stringing words together will no basic understanding of the scientific method.

Or accidently saying the quiet part out loud

unfortunately, it leads us to asking questions

Cannot have people asking questions, they must simply believe what ever BS we indoctrinate them with >

You left out the "based on false assumptions" part. Which changes the quote completely. I don't agree with what these people are doing, but when the truth is already so outrageous, why do you feel the need to make shit up to make them look bad? This just lets them say "look how the left twists your words" >

See, someone who actually appreciates free speech and learning would respond to “questions based on false assumptions” with an opportunity to point out those assumptions. >

But there's a difference between banning unproven views vs not wanting to teach them in grade school. Like if you taught kids that the Mandela effect is true, people would be justified in saying knock it off, even though we shouldn't ban the idea outright.
The real story is them not knowing that a scientific theory is different from a hypothesis and requires a ton of evidence to get that classification. Evolution is just a theory but so is gravity. >

I recommend him climbing a tall ladder and testing out the "theory of gravity" and tell us what he thinks afterwards. >

Obviously, you fall because you’re a sinner >

Nah, that's just a theory >

A GAME THEORY! THANKS FOR WATCHING! >

Counter Bill: Anyone who is against science, the teaching of science, the educating of people to think for themselves, and/or just any form of kindling logical thought, have to strip naked and go live in the wild as they are against the very foundations our modern society was built upon over the course of many generations of those striving to improve upon it with their minds and as such these people should not be able to enjoy the privileges and benefits of said civilization. >

word up >

I’m really no longer surprised to see republicans striving to bring the US into the dark ages. >

Make America G̶r̶e̶a̶t̶ Dark Aged Again! >


Make America G̶r̶e̶a̶t̶ ~~Dark~~ White Aged Again! >

By that logic then, I would assume that they are ok with banning religion in all forms in schools as that is just a bunch of shit you can’t prove 100%. >

It's okay to have blind faith when it's something I believe in.
When other people form hypotheses or follow supported theories, they're just being sheep tho >


The bill is sponsored by freshman Republican Senator Daniel Emrich from Great Falls. In his testimony, Emrich said the bill would make sure students are taught what a scientific fact is.

Wonder what church he goes to. >

It’s great because gravity is a great example to show the difference between a law and a theory because gravitation has existed as both. >

This is absolutely insane. America is going to Hell in a hand basket.
Evangelical fundamentalists and trumpublican wackos want us all to regress back into the Dark Ages. >

This legislator is a moron but this is a bill that will never go anywhere in one of the country’s least populous states. >

🤔
I wouldn't count your chickens yet..... >

It’s not sponsored by anyone else and the initial legal review indicates it’s likely unconstitutional (reading between the lines). I spent most of my career working around state government and I know attention whoring legislation when I see it. >

Still, so disturbing that it's even being proposed. >

I used to laugh at Mike Judge’s “Idiocracy” because it was a work of fiction.  Now I’m on the verge of tears because it’s a documentary. >

It’s been a documentary since it was released, now it’s a goddamn prophecy. >

The Christian Taliban is at it again. >

The stupid is especially strong with Kevin Hudson. "Protect the children" shouldn't be license to make them equally and more stupid. >

As a recovering catholic and a gay man every time I hear the phrase " protect the children " I cold shiver runs down my spine and my body goes in to protective aggressive mode. >

Ikr? >


The legislation’s sponsor says by banning scientific theories, the policy aims to prevent kids from being taught things that aren’t true.

I think I have to go sit down for a while. I don't know how to process such an absurd sentence. I don't understand how there are adults, who were voted into office, in this world, in this time period, who...
We have passed peak IQ. We're done. >

I feel like I read that IQ did peak in the 90s because of CO2 in the atmosphere. I can't find it now though so don't treat that like a fact or anything. Good thing I'm not in Montana. >

Well no, it's a hypothesis. It would be difficult proving a causal link with so many confounding variables. >

Great Falls? Jackass is from My city?! Already loathed Montana Republican class traitors and carpetbaggers but now it's personal! >

Take his seat!!!!! 😈 >

The pride of the stupids. >

Wow. That would be incredibly stupid, I'm sure that headline is hyperbole. 
*checks article
Nope. This moron really doesn't understand what a scientific theory is. >

Or the difference between Theory and Hypotheses. >

When will they get around to teaching politicians what a scientific theory is? >

Guess we'd better throw out modern medicine completely, considering that's all based on several scientific theories. Let's go back to trepanning and humorism, while we're at it. >

Man, this Bill guy sounds like an asshole. >

In his defense, Senator Emrich's existence is a pretty good counter-argument to the theory that man has evolved. >

While your point still stands, in reality evolution refers only to change, not improvement. >

American, for fucks sake can you get a GRIP already?! Still using bullshit like Fahrenheit is funny, but evolution isn’t funny >

Yeah we have problems here. Just please believe that the majority of Americans are sane and reasonable. This political polarization is bringing out the stupid in a lot of us for sure. >

It's the end. Any science-based company should leave these red states because they (the states) are lost causes and should be punished financially in addition to being shunned. "If you teach religion-based theories instead of science you are not producing a qualified workforce. Later." >

we need to break the country up.
My federal tax dollars should not be used to bail out people that can't be bothered to understand one single goddamn thing.
if the people in Montana want to live in mud huts and have tribes of sister wives why do I need to waste my tax money to try and stop them. >

oh dear... >

The US should just let the ignorant eater states devolve into idiocy then kick them out of the union. In another generation they will be empty territories ready to be recolonized. >

“Eater states” 😂 >

Everyone has lost their god damn minds >

Oh man, I bet their reasoning is that they don't understand what "theory" means in relation to science. >

That’s fine, they just don’t get to use anything humans invented using any sort of science.
Soo good luck doing anything >

Idiots that don't know the difference between a hypothesis and a theory somehow attract enough votes to hold office. >

Taliban GOP strikes again. >

Howdy Arabia!
(Not mine, but fits) >

Y'all Qaeda >

please tell me this is rage bait, please tell me this is rage bait, ple- >

My "Republicans are Stupid Theory" is being proven by this assclown.  It shall now be taught as "Republicans are Stupid, FACT. " >

This is a veiled attempt to try to get creationism taught in schools. One of the attacks creationists make against evolution is that it's a theory and not a fact. They completely misunderstand the concept of scientific theory, or willfully misrepresent what it is to try to sway the under educated. >

Yep, this is just « Intelligent Design » in another package. >

Bill who? Sounds like a jerk. Why are you such a jerk, Bill? >

Incoming "evolution is only a theory" and not a scientific fact.
I thought this was what the Scopes trial resolved... >

Let’s just ban school.  Off to the mines with the children. >

Effectively, that's what promoting home-schooling, funding Christian private schools and defunding public schools has done. >

A theory is fact. An hypothesis must be tested and proven to be true. Good grief. These people should not be governing. >

The guy's facebook page is a dumpster fire of anti-vax, anti-"woke", anti-CRT, election denial garbage. From his profile "I'm christian and proud of it". His only experience prior to being elected was as a car salesman. >

For Republicans you don't need experience, just "I'm a proud Christian, and you win support. >


If we operate on the assumption that a theory is fact, unfortunately, it leads us to asking questions that may be potentially based on false assumptions

And apparently, if we operate on the assumption that senators know what the word "theory" means, it leads us to electing morons who write up bills based on elementary-school level misunderstandings of very basic words. >

It's always some neckbeard like this promoting these kinds of bills.  Always. >

Fucking idiot republicans. >

I'm so glad all the stupidest fucking people have voted stupid fucking people into power to use the force of the state to make everyone around them just as fucking stupid as they are.^(/s) >

The future of the GOP is dependent on the dumbing down of the next generation of voters. >

''the future of the Dem's is dependent on importing a new ellectorate.''
(that disgust you feel is what your spreading. this is the point) >

Tell me you don't understand science without saying you don't understand science. >

I'm not sure that is a good idea. >

Republicans are just theocrats in suits. >

Christofascists. >

Maybe they should ban religion first.  Forcing people to act and think base on folklore and fairytales is down right dangerous ... they are indoctrinating our kids >

Next thing you know they'll be teaching kids that a solar eclipse isn't caused by a dragon eating the sun and that sacrificing virgins won't do anything to stop it. >

That does sound more fun.  I would like to subscribe to your dragon worshipping newsletter >

I thought Bill was a person for a second and this was just an opinion piece. Like why is what Bill thinks so important >

Omg, what are we trying to do?  Recreate the middle ages?! >

I mean....I had fun at medieval times >

Let’s get stupid! >

Why am I not surprised by this? >

Dammit Bill >

It's definately time to crack down on this THEORY of gravity.  In fact, it's past time.
Intelligent falling all the way! >

Ah yes, the ol' "I don't understand how science works so I'm afraid of it and therefor it must be banned" argument. If there were only a way for people to understand things they lack knowledge about. Maybe by speaking with people that do have said knowledge and, you know, ^(maybe) asking questions. >

I don't think these people understand what the word theory means. >

And why should I care about what a dude named Bill wants? >

Take my upvote you bastard >

Most bills get shut down.  This will be one of them >

Someone who doesn't know what a scientific theory is trying to ban them from schools. Jesus fucking Christ we're back to Creationists aren't we. >

Woohoo! Texas gets to move up one notch to 42 on educational attainment! 
(Bizarrely, though: we rank 15th in quality of education available. So... lots of people really, really don't give a shit about school here.) >

jesus fuckin H. CHRIST ON A CRUTCH!!!!
Are we back to fighting this anti-science Creationist horseshit AGAIN?
I realize it never really went away but ffs, this crap never ends with these religious anti-intellectual goobers entirely misunderstanding the word "theory" in the context of science. Hell, even the word "fact" overloaded their circuits and they decided they would follow 'alternative' facts.
If you're unsure about what I'm so pissed and angry about this, I would strongly recommend reading the 2007 non-fiction book about the Kitzmiller v. Dover Area School District trial of 2005. It details every ridiculous argument these dunderheads tried to spin in court about how science was bad and their beliefs and dreams were better. Fucking nightmare, all of them. >

WHERE IS THE FIRST AMENDMENT?? >

I think I’m gonna have to leave this sub . It doesn’t matter that I agree with everyone here- it just ruins my fucking day to see shit like this all the time… the willful ignorance motivated by politics and religion really makes me wish there was some other continent in the pacific we could just send all those crazies to so they could all be shitty and crazy to each other all day and leave the rest of the world alone. >

So scientific theories won’t be taught for engineering degrees? Specifically petroleum engineering? The degree that is used for part of their revenue? >

While I don't like this bill for other reasons, the redefinition seems more odd than really harmful, as it seem the attempt to distinguish between fact and theory is to move the words more in line with a layman's use of the words. Most people not trained in science will use hypothesis and theory more interchangeable, whereas in science, theory is much more support. Why they want to do this in the context of science class is beyond me.
The bill describes scientific fact as being "observable and repeatable" so something like the THEORY of evolution would be a scientific fact. Bit of a head scratcher there, I guess I understand what they are doing, but no clue why they are doing this redefinition, especially with the fact they should have been able to predict some sort of backlash to the wording. Theoretically this would ban something like intelligent design, and it isn't really observable or repeatable, so silver linings I guess.
More importantly, IMO, are two other things. First, part of the rational given for the bill more generally, has to do with if something is still up for debate within science it should be taught in public education. As long as it is taught as a debate, I don't see why ongoing questions can't be taught to students. Second, it later develops the definition of scientific fact to, "an indisputable and repeatable observation of a natural phenomenon". Indisputable is an odd word in the context of science, as all results should be questioned and verified, as science is ultimately about the process, not any individual facts.
There was a hearing on the bill yesterday (2/6) but the audio is not yet available so not sure what the arguments given for and against by the committee are.
​
EDIT: Link to bill status  /  text
Also just something sort of interesting, the only other two bills sponsored by the same guy are to remove jail penalties for littering and driving with a suspend/revoked license >

You’re missing the bait and switch.  The point of this is to do two things.  First it’s intended to bring science down to their religions level of credibility by equating theory to hypothesis which it’s not.  Hell, even a hypothesis isn’t just a guess.  The second part of this is goal post moving.  What you don’t realize is in a lot of religious circles they separate science into observational science which by their definition is evidence that is directly observed in laboratory settings and historical science which by their definition is inferred through evidence.  So what they will do is say that evolution is a historical science because it takes millions of years to observe evolution so it isn’t true but then they will say that the events in their holy book is observational science because it was directly observed by humans so that proves it.  They will then push that “observational” science is much more credible suggesting their religion is more likely to be true. >

To be fair, they're just theories... /s >

What is a scientific fact anyway? >

It is a scientific fact that part of the United States is moving towards a Christian version of the Islamic Extremists. The goal is to eliminate free thinking so that their daughters won't have sex. >

After decades spent with an infinite supply of cocaine and high class prostitutes, this is what Xi Jinping and Vladimir Putin read to reach orgasm, nothing else works anymore for them. >

Can people in Montana spell “science” ? >

welcome to nazi germany 1930 >

Letting lawyers near science is a bad idea >

Letting REPUBLICANS near science is a bad idea. FTFY >

Letting republicans near anything is a bad idea. And yet 40 something percent keep voting for them >

Why even go to school? >

How do they plan to accomplish anything? >

lol >

including the theory of gravity ? >

Good to see that a firm grasp of how science works is a prerequisite for serving in the Montana state legislature.
/s >

We’ll them schools are going to be less populated >

This is probably be too hard for them to read. Guess that's why they want ban it.
scientific theory >

Who is Bill and why does he want to control teaching? >

Um. Gravity is a theory. Relativity is a theory. >

poor kids >

As someone who frequently, for some reason I can’t understand, sees r/Montana posts appear as “suggested posts” I can totally see this happening. Just nothing but hatred and racism and anti-outsiders in Montana, at least from the majority of the population represented on Reddit. >

Fascism burning hot in rural America.. >

So, you can't teach any serious science?
Newton's theories are out.
Relatively is out 
Heliocentric theory of Galileo is out.
Evolution is out.
Wave theory of light is out, as well as the quantum dual particle/wave theory. >

American Taliban Association approves it. Next law: ban girls from schools. >

I guess he doesn’t want girls to get any form of education. His party is no better than the taliban >

Wow what a great idea /s  Probably because Montana republicans are too stupid to understand anything sciencey. >

Hey US, your fascism is starting to show. >

Bill is such a douche. >

They're really pushing for a handmaids tale future, aren't they? >

Murica! >

Time for Montana's Hank Green to step up to the plate lol >

Should be called out by his own party. thats not a hill to die on >

I might be moving to montana soon >

Gravity is Jesus' hands on you're shoulders holding you down to earth until he lets go when its you're time to float up to heaven because he loves you so much more than anything, but if your bad, think the wrong things, or don't love him and his dad as much as he/they want you to and in the way they want you to or if you use pronouns, then he'll pushes you down into the hell fire where you'll burn for eternity. This will all be on the science test at the end of the year. >

Bill would make kids dumber in Montana schools. >

If it wasn't for the politics (which impacts EVERYTHING), I'd live in Montana.
This is so disheartening but not at all surprising. >

Theocracy. >

Make America Flat Again >

I thought pretty much everything was a theory >

This is going to make getting to school without gravity problematic. >

Im getting really fucking tired of stupid people with powers they should not have making the rules for everyone. I vote. Please vote. >

Gravity is a hoax!!! Atoms don’t exist!!! Living organisms aren’t derived of cells!!!