About Spokane Falls Recovery Center
Sobriety is possible. Recovery is life-changing.
The Leadership Team of Spokane Falls Recovery Center has worked to create a unique recovery center for Spokane, embodying care and compassion for people's circumstances, their histories, and their individual needs. We know the Spokane community, and each one of us are intimately familiar with the journey of recovery. We live the message that we share with the people who come here: sobriety is possible, and recovery is life-changing. We help you take the next step toward recovery in your own life.
BRANDON STURM,
Brandon Sturm, DC
Brandon has found victory in a life of long-term recovery, which began in 2007 after struggling with drug addiction and alcoholism. His purpose today is to bring the pieces together for others in treatment, with the flexibility that makes it possible to experience the true miracle of recovery, and to provide a genuine place of healing at Spokane Falls Recovery Center.
Brandon has worked in executive leadership for substance use treatment facilities since 2012, starting in Prescott, Arizona, and then moving to Spokane, Washington. In his leadership of Spokane Falls Recovery Center, he emphasizes community connections and creating an environment that is as healthy for employees as it is for the people who receive care here.
CORRIE STURM
Director of Administrative Operations
Corrie began her journey in recovery in 2007 and accredits her joy and life successes to sobriety. The forefront of her life's purpose today is positively impacting people in need and witnessing others overcome addiction. As Director of Administrative Operations, Corrie oversees human resources, facilities, and employee management. These entities are the operational pieces that build a safe and effective treatment environment and offer a healthy place to work for employees. Against that wider background of effective operations, Corrie is committed to adding the little things that let people know that they are seen as a person with dignity, with compassion and understanding for the choices they have made and the choices they will make to find a better life, free of addiction.
MEGAN CURRAN
Megan believes wholeheartedly that a life in recovery is a life well-lived. Megan's journey of recovery began in 2014, and she enjoys the opportunity to share her own experience with others. She is excited to be in a position where she can help people first-hand as they walk through the doors of Spokane Falls Recovery Center. She believes everyone who seeks help through our treatment facility can find freedom from active addiction, and she is grateful to work for a company that shows people the door to recovery. Megan is inspired by individuals who have a desire for change and who take the courageous first step of asking for help. In her off time, Megan is an avid rock climber and community volunteer.
BARRY COONEY,
BA, SUDP
Barry Cooney, BA, SUDP
Barry has been celebrating a life of recovery since 1991. Through his recovery, he has welcomed joy and happiness into his life that he previously only dreamed was possible. His desire to help those who suffer from substance use disorders led him to enter the field in 1994. He has worked in many different treatment settings and has worked directly with numerous individuals, loved ones, and communities to carry the message of hope to those suffering from addiction.
Barry has worked in executive leadership for several substance use disorder agencies since 2008. His compassion and desire is focused on helping people achieve their recovery goals from the bondage of addiction. Barry believes in caring for the individual and helping them regain the life they truly deserve, free from substances. He has been privileged to assist thousands of individuals and loved ones over the years, witnessing many successes and hard-won victories. His employment model is based on caring and advocating for his team. Barry leads with his heart and guides with love, whether it is an individual seeking treatment, a loved one, or a staff member. His belief is that together we can recover.
RONDA GARRETT,
SUDP
Ronda Garrett, SUDP
Ronda was still a teenager when she began a life of recovery. As she gained time in recovery, she grew to love her life and desired to give back to others along their recovery journeys. She entered the field in 1994 and has not looked back, working passionately (and at times stubbornly) to better the treatment community and foster a culture of loving & therapeutic services. Over the years, she has worked with adolescents and adults in various treatment settings. She has worked as a Clinical Supervisor since 2001. She views her role as another form of giving back to the still-suffering alcoholic/addict by improving quality of care and building strong a clinical team.
Ronda's passion is helping others discover who they are and establish a new life. She finds true joy in helping others, whether it is helping clinical staff grow in their skills or working directly with individuals seeking recovery. In her free time, Ronda enjoys being with her family. Her recovery has taught her to treasure the simple things that bring her joy, such as spending time with her grandkids and three dogs. Ronda is grateful that recovery is her way of life today, and that her profession allows her an opportunity to help others find the same.
KAYLA ROYAS,
SUDP, LICSW
Director of Quality Assurance and Compliance
Kayla Rojas, SUDP, LICSW
Kayla has always found her calling in the helping profession. She graduated with her Bachelor's in Psychology and immediately started working with the still suffering addict. She has worked in the field of recovery since 2005. She has found a true passion for helping people and believes in a holistic model of care. Her desire to improve the quality of care led her to return to school for her Master's degree in Social Work. She is trained in Motivational Interviewing, Cognitive Behavioral Therapy, and Crisis Intervention.
Kayla has worked in multiple aspects of the helping profession including withdrawal management services, partial hospitalization, residential treatment, outpatient treatment, as well as transitional care & discharge planning from acute hospital settings to outpatient settings. She enjoys working not just with the individual, but also with the entire support team, including loved ones and community supports.
Kayla believes that people are not defined by one diagnosis or label, but are rather an entire person. They should be treated as such. She is truly passionate about getting people the help they want and deserve. She believes everyone is deserving of dignity, respect, and excellent holistic care. In an effort to provide this, she has established a background with state and national regulations within her field of choice. She has worked on multiple certifications for Joint Commission and Commission on Accreditation of Rehabilitation Facilities. Kayla also has training on National Committee for Quality Assurance guidelines. She uses her background to provide the highest quality care for our individuals, their loved ones, our staff, and all stakeholders.
GILBERT SIMAS,
Gilbert Simas
Dr. Gilbert Simas has worked in the addiction field since 2004 and is board-certified in Adult Psychiatry and Addiction Psychiatry. He is a graduate of Vanderbilt School of Medicine Residency Program and Oregon Health and Science University (OHSU) Addiction Psychiatry Program. His many accolades and expertise in the treatment of co-occurring mental health and substance use disorders sets him apart within the addiction field. He has dedicated the majority of his career to dual diagnosis treatment utilizing therapeutic and pharmacological treatment modalities.
Dr. Simas offers compassionate, personalized care for every patient, and is passionate about supporting individuals on their journeys toward recovery. His years of experience coupled with his specialized knowledge of physical and psychological impacts associated with substance use disorders truly raises the bar on quality of care offered at Spokane Falls Recovery Center.
BRIAN HABERBUSH,
ARNP
Advanced Registered Nurse Practitioner
Brian Haberbush, ARNP
Brian Haberbush is an Advanced Registered Nurse Practitioner who specializes in working with individuals struggling with substance use disorders. Brian graduated from Washington State University in 2006 with a degree in nursing. After practicing as an ICU nurse in Spokane, WA. Brian returned to school and graduated with a master's degree as a Nurse Practitioner. Since that time, Brian has focused his work in primary care and drug and alcohol rehabilitation services. He has had the opportunity to work within different local behavioral health facilities that offer a variety of different treatment modalities. Brian's specialized knowledge of the physical symptoms and mental health issues associated with substance use and the recovery process provides an essential component to our treatment program.
LINDSAY MCGINNIS,
ARPN
Lindsay McGinnis, ARNP
ALAN ANDERSON,
Alan Anderson, RN
ZANDER NIELSEN,
Zander Nielsen, LPN
Zander's lifelong dream was always to be a nurse. Originally from Riverside, California, she graduated nursing school in 2017 from Northwest College as an LPN. Zander is a natural caretaker. Before coming to Spokane Falls Recovery Center, her background was in working with patients with dementia in nursing homes. The transition to caring for those with substance use disorders has been a decision she's grown to love, as she has tremendous empathy for anyone struggling with addiction. Zander grew up around people with substance use disorders, and she believes strongly in the promise of recovery. She is passionate about being of service, and she considers it an honor to be a part of another person's recovery journey. In her free time, Zander is usually busy with arts & crafts or enjoying the outdoors. She is happy near any body of water, and she enjoys traveling to her hometown of Riverside to visit loved ones.
TAMMERA MICKELSON,
Tammera Mickelson, RN
KARYN LABONTE,
Karyn LaBonte, RN
JOSE MUNOS-FLORES,
Jose Munos-Flores, RN
RICK KRAHN,
Substance Use Disorder Professional
Rick Krahn
SUDPT
Rick Krahn started his journey in recovery on May 11, 2003. Like most others, he was sick and tired of being sick and tired. He had a moment of clarity and asked for help. By the grace of a power greater than himself, he has kept moving onward and upward ever since. With the support of strong sponsorship and his Family of the Heart, he was able to retire from a job he had worked at for 27 years and began to pursue his dream of carrying the message to those that wanted to change.
Rick started his new career at the treatment center where it all started in 2003. He was later reminded of the saying, "You make plans and God laughs." Rick applied at another agency and ended up working in a place that he had worked so hard to avoid. He was privileged to work with incarcerated individuals in the Therapeutic Community at Airway Heights Correction Center. Rick learned a lot from those men and saw a lot of change in individuals who may have lost hope, but instead, found faith.
Rick found his new home when he walked through the front doors at Spokane Falls Recovery Center. He was welcomed with open arms and compassionate hearts, and reconnected with like-minded individuals that have, in one shape or another, contributed to his recovery over the years. He also found people that will be instrumental in his continued growth, development, and the ability to carry the message to everyone that crosses that thresh-hold.
MCKENZIE KEITH,
Substance Use Disorder Professional Trainee
McKenzie Keith, SUDPT
McKenzie Keith is a licensed SUDPT who is pursuing her Bachelors in Addiction Studies at Eastern Washington University. She has grown up in the loving arms of the recovery community, and it is her greatest honor to follow in the footsteps of her family and the ones who have come before her. From her own personal recovery journey and her relationship with her Higher Power whom she calls Jesus, she has learned that she is worthy of a life without drugs and alcohol. She has gained a heart that desires to pay forward all the love and compassion that was given to her.
McKenzie chose to work in the field of addiction counseling because there is no greater honor than to help others overcome obstacles in life. The values of Spokane Falls Recovery Center are values that she lives by: integrity, compassion, and love. She feels privileged to be a part of a community of coworkers that not only resemble recovery themselves, but who genuinely believe in hope and a bright future for anyone who walks through these doors.
ANITA WOOLWAY,
Anita Woolway, SUDPT
Anita began her personal journey of recovery in 2009. As a single mother, she knew that she had to stop her addiction to alcohol if she wanted to be a good mom to her son. After experiencing a setback in her sobriety in 2016, Anita recommitted to recovery. She also made a decision to turn her experience with addiction & recovery into a profession. In 2018, with the support of her family and friends, she began the path to becoming a substance abuse counselor. In 2021, she graduated from Southern New Hampshire University with a Bachelor's in Human Services with a concentration in Addiction Studies. She is currently pursuing a Master's of Health Science in Addiction Studies through Governor's State University. A lifelong learner, Anita she looks forward to continuing her education throughout her career as time permits.
Anita is thrilled to continue her journey with the Spokane Falls Recovery Center team. She firmly believes in the approach of holistic & evidence-based treatments, which are models that SFRC implements. With her long history of helping others, she enjoys sharing her own experience & knowledge as a way to help individuals on the road to recovery. She uses the message of recovery to inspire others and prove that anything is possible with hope, courage, and a desire for change.
VERONICA TRACY,
Veronica Tracy, SUDPT
Veronica has been clean and sober since April 19, 2019. When she got sober, she moved from Moses Lake to Spokane in search of new growth opportunities for her recovery. She enrolled in school at SFCC with the goal of working in the Substance Use Disorder field. Today she is blessed to work at an incredible job where she gets to support individuals on their journeys to recovery. Her passion is to help individuals choose sobriety and find out who they truly are in recovery.
In her addiction, Veronica was lost and lonely. Now she is a woman of courage and strength. She chooses to walk with her Higher Power in her recovery journey. She follows the God of her understanding one step at a time, doing the next right thing. She believes God has placed incredible people in her life who have helped her grow and become the woman she is today.
JOSHUA NORRIS,
Joshua Norris
Joshua has lived in the Spokane area for most of his life. His sobriety journey began in December 2008, when in desperation, he checked himself into a six-month-long Bible-based recovery program. In his search for recovery, he also completed two Intensive Outpatient treatments, after which he maintained sobriety for years.
On August 14, 2014, Joshua lost his fifteen-year-old son to brain cancer after a twenty-month long battle. The loss was devastating and painful, but he continued to maintain sobriety until mid-2015, at which time he returned to drinking. His drinking progressed from a six-pack on the weekend to round-the-clock drinking.
In 2018, Joshua checked himself into treatment. He would go through detox and treatment five more times in two years before he finally attained the tools to stay sober and live a true recovery lifestyle.
Joshua joined this field because he knows first-hand how difficult it is to get out of addiction. Out of his appreciation for the true freedom that he finally found in recovery, he strives to continually give the best care to everyone that comes to Spokane Falls Recovery Center. He values being part of an exceptional team that wants to see every individual who seeks help at SFRC find freedom from active addiction and experience the joy of recovery.
TYLER HAM,
MED, MA, LMHC
Tyler Ham, Med, MA, LMHC
Tyler Ham has worked in the helping profession for over 15 years, first as a public High School Teacher, and now as a Licensed Mental Health Counselor. After a Master's degree from NOVA Southeastern University in Curriculum and Instruction, and thirteen years in public education, Tyler returned to Graduate School and completed a second Master's Degree from Gonzaga University in Marriage and Family Therapy. During that time Tyler finished an eighteen-month internship with Spokane Falls Community College working closely with the Addictions Studies Program providing mental health counseling, academic advising, career counseling, and support through community referrals. Tyler was then hired at Spokane Falls Community College as a tenure track faculty where he currently works as a Mental Health Counselor and Academic Advisor. He holds his associate license in mental health counseling and is a National Certified Counselor.
Tyler has a real desire to work closely with those in recovery, and their families. From his first year of teaching at a Recovery High School to his current professional endeavors, Tyler truly has a passion for helping the population take the steps towards building a new family legacy.
EMILY TOLES
Emily is a certified Yoga Instructor with 7 years of experience. When Emily first experienced the benefits of yoga, she found that it had a profound impact on her life. She feels that yoga, in many ways, changes lives, and wanted to share what she has learned and experienced with others. What she would like to, and hope to, bring to her classes is the very thing she has always loved about a yoga class: getting to a place physically, mentally or spiritually that she has not been before. Emily specializes in making Yoga accessible for all ages and experience levels.
MICHELLE TIFFANY
Michelle was born and raised in North Idaho. She currently lives in Spirit Lake on a small farm with her husband of more than two decades. Michelle dedicates her talents as a licensed massage therapist to working with elderly, disabled, traumatized, and recovering individuals. Through her own journey of healing and in caring for her extended family, Michelle has developed a genuine compassion for people. She was first introduced to recovery in the early 2000's and spent just over a decade clean & sober. During that time, she devoted her life to raising her two children and living in service to the still-suffering addict. When her mental and physical health began to decline, she stepped away from recovery for a season before returning to a life of sobriety in 2017. Her own journey back to recovery led her to what she calls an insatiable desire for truth, and when she observed how all things work together physically, mentally, emotionally, and spiritually, she adopted an approach to recovery that is holistic and multi-faceted.
Just like her recovery, Michelle's personal life is multi-faceted and rooted in holistic wellbeing. Whether it's massage therapy, roasting coffee, construction work, or caring for the animals on her farm, her professional endeavors remain part-time so that she can be fully present in all that she does. She wakes up each day genuinely excited to see what God has in store for her each day. Finding purpose and passion has allowed her to build a life in which she is content in the present and no longer seeks to escape from herself. By seeing what her higher power has done in her own life, Michelle believes that truly anything is possible for those seeking recovery.
SUNSHINE VANCLEAVE
Sunshine is honored to use her experience as a cosmologist to serve individuals in detox & residential care at Spokane Falls Recovery Center. Having battled addiction in her own life, she is familiar with the weight it carries. During her active addiction, she couldn't imagine that she would be able to find freedom, strength & hope on the other side. Having overcome her struggles, Sunshine now carries her message to others: "Healing from addiction is obtainable!" She is fortunate to be able to give back to others as part of her continued recovery journey by providing haircuts at SFRC. Her services offer a way for individuals to feel "human" again and increase their self-confidence while enrolled in services. Sunny is no longer ashamed to share her story, and she is privileged to hear others' stories in return.
MICHELLE WEINBENDER,
Registered Dietitian Nutritionist
Michelle Weinbender, RDN
Michelle Weinbender is a Registered Dietitian Nutritionist (RDN) with 27 years of experience as a dietitian working in both hospitals and outpatient settings. She graduated from Central Washington University with bachelors' degrees in both psychology and food science and nutrition. She has focused the later part of her career on the treatment of eating disorders having worked in intensive programming and outpatient clinics.
Michelle Weinbender helps individuals with disordered eating discover a healthy relationship with food and their bodies. She is able to combine her degrees and provide evidence-based nutrition treatment and individualized treatment planning to meet the needs of the individuals served at Spokane Falls Recovery Center.
TRACY HARDING
Tracy entered her journey of recovery in 1987. She quickly realized that recovery was not just her personal journey but also the best path for her professional career. For over 25 years Tracy touched the lives of individuals she served and clinicians she trained. She brings a wealth of recovery, efficiency and best practices in the field of addiction and mental health.
Tracy retired as the Eastern Region Director of the Washington State Department of Corrections in 2012. Tracy was involved in all aspects of treatment operations, including all modalities, clinical adherence, and setting the bar for effective case management, communication, and cultural competencies. Tracy believes in the hope of successful recovery for all individuals and is dedicated to helping others find long-term recovery. Her dedication to the recovery process, along with her willingness to give back, allows others to grow and "watch the magic happen"
Admissions/Marketing Team
MINDY BRILEY
Admissions Coordinator/Marketer
Mindy Briley is originally from Moses Lake, Washington. She has worked in the treatment field since 2015. Mindy struggled with addiction for most of her life. In her own words: "I did not think that I would ever be able to get out of my addiction. I chose drugs over my children and my family."
When Mindy began her own recovery journey in 2014, she moved to Spokane, began attending church, and found her Higher Power. She learned how to live & enjoy life free of all substances. She came to love herself and those around her. Today, Mindy's family is supportive of her recovery journey, and she enjoys close friendships with others in recovery whose stories are similar to her own.
Mindy chooses to work in the recovery field because she believes in helping those who are struggling. She enjoys being able to share the hope that she's found in recovery. "There is so much more to life when we choose to put down drugs and alcohol. I love sharing my hope and carrying it to others." She believes strongly in compassion, integrity and faith, which are the values of Spokane Falls Recovery Center.
SARGIE CHAFFINS
Sargie Chaffins has been in recovery for seven years and seven months. She struggled with addiction for many years and felt there was no way out. When she realized that there was hope by witnessing others gain recovery and seeing that it was possible, she decided to make the change. Someone once told her the only thing you have to change is everything. That's what she did, and she has not looked back.
In her recovery she has gained Jesus, herself, a beautiful husband, two children, and so much more. She chooses to work in the recovery field because her heart and passion is to help those who are struggling to find recovery, and to see who they really are, not what drugs and alcohol have caused them to be. Her goal is to further her education to become a therapist. She is so excited to be part of this beautiful team at Spokane Falls Recovery Center!
GREGG KEITH
Gregg has taken on several roles at Spokane Falls Recovery Center including assisting the Marketing Team and Administrative Assistant. Gregg has many years of working hands on in his family businesses both in the office and in the field. He believes wholeheartedly in the benefits of living his life free from drugs and alcohol and has a great desire to help people.
JASON YOUNGER
Jason started drinking at an early age. He struggled with alcoholism for the majority of his life. Whenever he faced external pressures to get sober, he would go into treatment, and when those pressures lifted, he would return to drinking. Finally, after numerous attempts at several treatment centers, Jason reached complete despair and hopelessness. That was the point at which he finally desired change for himself, and he asked for help from others and from his higher power. He entered treatment for the final time, where he began the necessary steps toward recovery.
Jason's last drink was on October 23, 2020. Having found freedom from alcohol, he now leads a journey of wellness and happiness. He has a heart of service and enjoys working at a place where he is able to give back to the newcomer by sharing his own experience, strength and hope. In his own words, "Instead of dreaming and doing nothing, today I am beginning to make my dreams into reality."
RICHARD CHATWOOD
Residential Technician
Rick has lived a life filled with struggles as a direct result of his addiction. He isolated from anyone and everyone that cared about him and spent his addiction running away from his problems. Rick found the support he needed by following his faith and participating in the self-help community. Rick believes that within every human being there is a light. Sometimes life's circumstances dim that light. Today he knows his light is shining and has found his way. Rick is joining the team at Spokane Falls Recovery Center to help others find the tools he has been given through AA, hard knocks, schooling, but most of all, love and compassion for those who have lost their way.
CHRISTOPHER DEBRUNNER
Chris's journey of long-term sobriety and recovery began on June 23, 2020 after many years of struggling with active use, relapse, and attempts to recover. He attributes the longevity of his recovery from alcoholism to attending treatment and graduating from Spokane Falls Recovery Center, where he became an active member of the community and continues to participate through alum services. He also became a home-group member of the AA groups at Spokane Falls Recovery Center, where he chairs meetings and shares his journey with newcomers. He is proud to have come full circle, now finding ways to give back through his employment here. Chris sincerely believes that no one should feel alone while seeking help. He wants nothing more than to help others achieve sobriety and experience the gifts of community, camaraderie, and a true sense of "home away from home" at SFRC.
Sobriety and recovery have taught Chris that he has self-worth, a place in this world, and never-ending possibilities at his fingertips. He has rediscovered the things he loves, such as art, crafting, music, and many other things he thought he had lost to alcoholism. He aspires to continue his growth in recovery and his crafts. Today, his goal is to give back the gift of sobriety that was given to him, and to show others that no matter how far down and hopelessly lost they might feel, they will find serenity and peace on their journeys to recovery.
MATTHEW JORDAN
Matthew Jordon
Matthew "MJ" Jordon entered a life of recovery on July 28, 1998, following a struggle with drugs and alcohol that nearly ended his life. In early recovery, he saw others take suggestions that were offered to them and move forward in their journeys. He wanted those same results, so he made a decision to follow the same suggestions. One suggestion offered was to gather as many recovery tools as possible for his toolbox. After each use, a tool needs to be cleaned and put back so it's ready for the next use. "A tool never used is a lesson never learned." The result of MJ's decision to pursue recovery is that he's built a life filled with happiness, hope, integrity, and fellowship.
MJ's faith in a Higher Power began on November 23, 2008. This deepened his recovery journey, which he believes does not end with the 12 steps. He sees himself as recovering from alcoholism, drug abuse, and trauma. He chooses to work steps 10, 11, and 12 daily (perseverance, spiritual awareness, and service) so that he can help others. He believes that the more one knows, the more helpful one can be to others. In order to be of better service to his community, MJ has completed Basic Life Support training, learned sign language, attained a Pharmacy Assistant license, and is pursuing becoming a Certified Peer Counselor. His goal is to one day be an EMT. MJ enjoys being of service to everyone who comes through the doors of Spokane Falls Recovery Center, and he sees his work here as an honor and a privilege.
TIFFANY DEVINY
Tiffany's recovery journey began on August 29, 2006. After she had her children, she decided that she did not want them to grow up seeing their mother in active use. Therefore, she made the decision to change her life and pursue recovery. She began attending a recovery group with her family, and has been going ever since.
Throughout her recovery, Tiffany has volunteered in many ways in the community through being an active member of her church, helping with children's ministry, feeding the homeless every week, volunteering at treatment centers, and sharing her message of how God has helped change her life in a positive way through recovery. Her passion is to continue to grow in her walk for recovery, and to share with others how there is a blessing in every struggle, even if it is not apparent right away. She likes to help people smile and let them know they are loved right where they are at in their lives. Tiffany is grateful to be part of an amazing team at Spokane Falls Recovery Center, where she hopes to one day further her education as a loving and compassionate therapist and continue her call to let others know they can get through anything with the help of others.
WILLIAM PAUL
RACHEL FERGUSON
JUDY CARNEY
Judy was born and raised by a family of alcoholics. The beginning of her life was torrent and unstable and unpredictable like shifting sand. Because she watched her loved ones struggle with addiction, she can empathize with those who come to Spokane Falls Recovery Center seeking help. Her heart's desire is to share with others a message of unconditional love and kindness along their journey through this world. She finds purpose and meaning through helping others on their journeys.
Judy's own personal journey was changed the day she gave her life to God when she found grace, mercy, and healing at the foot of the cross. Now, no matter what happens, Judy feels God's agape love being extended very tenderly towards her, especially when she struggles. She feels that she no longer faces life alone. Today her struggles are shared with Christ, and she finds joy in this journey. Like many who struggle with addiction, Judy has known fear and doubt, and she knows how important it is to find hope. She views each person as absolutely precious in God's sight, and she believes anyone can find hope and healing from a place of brokenness. Some days Judy starts all over again, but she remembers that God's mercies are new every morning. She believes second chances are available to anyone who reaches out and asks for help.