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Game of Thrones (spoilers)
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Re: Game of Thrones (spoilers)
Reply #690 on: April 28, 2019, 10:38:24 PM
D&D said they've known it would be Arya for 3 years. I think that lines up with the fabled hotel room meeting with GRRM.
I thought this was a great episode. Like a horror movie and war movie combined—actually not sure there's ever been anything quite like it. It was bone-chilling and punishing. How could you not be in awe of that scene where the Dothraki get evaporated by the unseen storm of cold death?
My only complaint would be the extent to which I've been predicting and consuming predictions, but that's sort of on me. At a certain point it became clear that the entire main cast was so hopelessly in danger that the Night King was definitely going to die in this episode, which they've hinted would be the best way to defeat the dead. And there weren't any deaths that surprised me. I expected those people to die, plus one or two from the main cast. Surprised Brienne is alive. However, expecting Dany or Jon to die in episode 3 of 6 is madness.
How absolutely perfect was Arya's big scene? Too perfect, that's the answer.
satan's little helper
Quote from: Fernando on April 28, 2019, 10:31:11 PM
So the death count IIRC is, Beric Dondarrion, Edd from the night's watch, The Brave Lyanna Mormont and of course Jorah and Melisandre.
How could I forgot Theon.
Quote from: Jeremy Blackman on April 28, 2019, 10:38:24 PM
Completely agree, I'll add that the whole episode was full of dread and hopelessness until the very end.
And the music was superb.
Never expected that Dany or Jon would die here, alike you also thought that Brienne could go and maybe The Hound, that Clegane bowl many people want might happen.
Side note, I have absolutely no problem with the Night King being defeated at this point. Two full episodes building up to it, and we're very much in the endgame. It seems too good to be true, but think about how hard-earned it was. This episode was a bloodbath. Civilians slaughtered in the crypt, even. Their forces are decimated, too—I don't even know how many soldiers they have left.
I'll toss in another complaint, though. I am genuinely disappointed by Bran's powers... or lack thereof. Is he a charlatan? Really hope there's more for him to do.
VERY VAGUE LOTR BOOK SPOILERS
I do reckon there's a chance the books will have the good guys dealing with the WW before extinguishing the final human threat. GRRM could use the scouring of The Shire chapter in the LOTR books as a precedent. Like an extended denouement. But of course, execution is critical. The NK isn't really a thing in the books (yet) and his vague goals and his unbelievably lame fate really expresses D&D's inability to create something of real substance. Maybe this is one of the reasons why GRRM is stuck; beyond all the micromanaging of his human plotlines, perhaps he has no idea on how to really proceed with WW in the books.
Anyway, there were certainly some neat moments in this episode and I imagine there will be some great dramatic moments in the coming episodes now that we're back to the human conflict.
Also, fuck Sam, RIP Edd.
Damn man, he was one of my favourites.
Reply #694 on: April 29, 2019, 05:50:44 AM
People really enjoy complaining about this show, huh?
I thought this was a breathtakingly beautiful episode. Visually stunning, with so many amazing moments and character arcs ending in satisfying ways. What more do people want from a battle episode? Did we watch the same episode? I thought it was great.
The Arya scene was indeed perfect.
We've been lead to believe that Jon/Dany was developed to be important figures in the battle against the NK, but instead we got the cocky little sister jumping out of nowhere to save them all. I loved it! Hero Jon fighting him in a epic battle would've been too predictable. This was a satisfying end to it imo.
I'm fine with Jon/Dany being important political figures in the coming episodes instead.
Oh, and I guess death has no real purpose or deeper meaning in the end...
I'm just puzzled by some of the choices they made. I despised the bizarre Arya teleports behind you thing but I'm just as annoyed at some more grand scale issues. Like bringing Jon back. Rhaegar wooing Lyanna etc
No doubt, prophecy is an imprecise thing in this show- but it seems so pointless/inconsistent. The NK could have been killed by a stray dragonglass arrow from some redshirt. I don't know why he didn't wait until everyone in Winterfell was dead before he tried to kill Bran. He's never been in a rush before. Everything just seems so fraught with silliness. Not to mention the excessive 'they should have died here' parts.
And ultimately, isn't Cersei a total triviality now? Dragons or no dragons- Arya could sneak in and kill Cersei, Euron and Qyburn with relative ease. She already had planned on killing her earlier.
I don't believe the above is nitpicking either, it all relates to seemingly significant plot or thematic stuff.
My prediction is, or rather, my hope is that there is a serious complication coming up. Perhaps the WW aren't totally destroyed or something really crazy is gonna happen. Clearly, a lot can happen in 3 episodes. Perhaps there's more to Bran and Jon etc but we'll see.
Quote from: Lottery on April 29, 2019, 06:39:58 AM
I'm just puzzled by some of the choices they made. I despised the bizarre Arya teleports behind you thing
Didn't that make sense, though? She's an assassin, who grew up in WF and has been trained to move quietly. Maybe she even wore a dead face (or whatever, how does that work? lol) when she sneaked up on him. Let's see in the next episode...
I understand how people feel disappointed because it ended rather quickly after 7 whole seasons of build-up, but at the same time, i'm not sure how they could've made it differently. It's an army of dead who won't stop until they are defeated, so it wouldn't make sense to drag out The Great War for several episodes. It was always ending with one big battle. At one point I thought they would escape, but that would have felt silly as well. There's no escaping that.
Another reason why I liked it so much: It had me questioning the outcome throughout the episode. I never felt certain on anything...
Anyway, there's three episodes left and it doesn't make sense to talk about the grand scheme of things without the whole story infront of us. As for now, I'm enjoying this episode for what it is; a straightforward battle episode, with great atmosphere (yet again) and amazing visuals, and a few character arcs reaching very satisfying emotional culminations.
Also, if you wanna get fucked up; read the last few pages and play the drinking game "take a shot everytime Robyn made a wrong prediction"!
The moment of silence as the knife dropped. I think we all felt that!
This is great to watch when you have followed the channel for a few season. This is the first I've seen the short haired blonde girl get this emotional, lol.
They certainly did emphasise her sneakiness in the last season or two. I just find it a bit silly she still manages to slink past his entire retinue like that, followed by a dramatic yelling jump etc then the ice man is fast enough to catch her but falls for her knife drop trick. It doesn't make for compelling action. Like, this dude fucking sucks, his team sucks. All this ominous shambling and slaughter for this? And then there was the bizarre defense of Winterfell overall. I could ignore the silly stuff in BoB because it was so stunning but I couldn't here, especially as many of the core story elements were at play. The way things transpired just didn't do it for me. I did like the use of Melisandre in this one, that was effective, true to her character and so on.
Maybe they'll explain things next episode- like Bran was stealth-warging the WWs so Arya could pass etc but there's stuff in this episode that after-the-fact explanations can't fix.
Also, I think they need to prepare faces for use?
There's something very amusing about Euron Grejoy being a final villain.
I told you I would eat you
Still processing, but overall a little disappointed. There were some great moments, but I wanted *more* I guess. More big/key/shocking deaths. Something more than that resolution. I get it, it's only 80 minutes, but it felt like it shuold have been even more of a substantial episode than it was. That those who did die got more of a spotlight.
Felt for sure that Jamie would die. Surprised that the standouts of this ep were Arya and Melisandre, two characters who've bored me no end in the past. Loved both here. And Mormont, of course.
So next ep is all positioning for the battle of King's Landing, then the long battle ep itself, then the coda to everything?
EDIT: Robyn, that video is great. Not least because half the blokes there look like wildlings. Got the tingles all over again.
He held on. The dolphin and all the rest of its pod turned and swam out to sea, and still he held on. This is it, he thought. Then he remembered that they were air-breathers too. It was going to be all right.
Nobody wanted to see Arya stealing a Walker's face? I'm with Lottery, jumping out of nowhere while all the Big Bads are here...The episode made it clear that she would kill him, the real pay-off would have been to see her use what she spent half the show learning at Bravoos. The scene in the library was very suspensful and fun.
Also: I don't enjoy "hating". Even if I like the show way less, I was kind of crushed by the disappointement, especially after having loved last week episode.
Re: Arya coming out of nowhere. How many seasons of work are required for y'all to be convinced that she has the skills? They've even shown us multiple times that Arya has particular skills for leaping and such (how much parkour did we see in Bravos?) and disappearing suddenly and, most importantly, sneaking up on dudes. There's even an insert shot of her whooshing past one of the white walkers (who've never been shown to be fast btw). She's probably running on full adrenaline as well, because this is clearly the most important moment of her life and the culmination of her entire struggle.
And guess what, it doesn't work, she doesn't successfully sneak up on the Night King. She outplays the white walkers with her speed and reflexes (and leaping abilities), but the Night King has to be outsmarted. It's perfect.
Quote from: Drenk on April 29, 2019, 10:33:56 AM
Nobody wanted to see Arya stealing a Walker's face? I'm with Lottery, jumping out of nowhere while all the Big Bads are here...The episode made it clear that she would kill him, the real pay-off would have been to see her use what she spent half the show learning at Bravoos.
Drenk, I love you, but this is insanity. Arya stealing a white walker's face would be extremely silly and completely counter to lore. There's been nothing to indicate that it would be even remotely possible. Is she going to kill one, then try to skin its icy face off? Her dagger would shatter it to pieces instantly anyway.
In fact, I think Arya's story has a perfect metaphysical and philosophical consistency leading to this point. It's very solid fantasy writing. She mastered the God of Death, but she does it in a way where she retains her humanity and can reclaim her identity. ("I am Arya Stark of Winterfell, and I'm going home.") She's a Master of Two Worlds. Only through her training with death is she ready to take on death itself, and she does it in the name of life. ("What do we say to the God of Death? Not today.") She gains the power of the faceless men while fighting for her own ideals, co-opting their power for the living.
What's more, from a lore POV, you could argue she's also working for the god of death by closing this loophole—eliminating the re-animated dead, abominations who have cheated the many-faced god. There's actually a theory that this was Jacquen's plan. (Although I'd ascribe Arya most of the agency.)
On just a technical level, did anyone else find it frustratingly DARK most of the episode? I had to get up and turn off room lights in an attempt to actually SEE what was going on in most of the scenes. I could obviously be my monitor, but I'm curious if any of you had a similar reaction at any point?
[edit] Someone posted this elsewhere: " I found myself enjoying the dragons lighting up the army not because they were helping the living, but because it lended some actual god damn light so we can actually view what's happening. Oh, and a wight can't break out of a wooden box but they can suddenly break through their tombs despite being nothing but bones? Boiiii"
(And "LOL" to Sleepless, below.)
Even as an X-Files fan, yes, this episode was frustratingly dark. Still, it makes for good memes:
I don't see that big a difference between her jumping out of nowhere and stealing a White Walker's face with her surnatural powers—the No Ones kind of defy logic, and she can also have a regular knife with her. Especially in a episode where Jon is surrounded by 50 walkers in a shot, gently killing them in the other. Dondarrion manages to espace five walkers who are stabbing him in order to die in the room where Melissandre can give us exposition concerning him. So Arya doing her best move—stealing a face, being No One—is possible, as much as jumping out of nowhere: she has the skills. Is it a little silly? Yes, but it has always been. I might not remember the space correctly, but the nearest wall around that tree is very far away, no? Or she was hiding in the tree? The AV Club writer said: Did she jump on a trampoline? It's not a lack of faith in her physical ability, but knowing what space they're in the imagination wonders: she can do all that, but it's not less silly than stealing a White Walker's face without being seen in my opinion.
That's why it would have been better seeing her getting there even if we know she's capable. They've done a lot of parallels with season 1 this year. It would have been good to see her find her way to the Tree, the same way she saw her father die, walking through the crowd, but this time managing to save everyone.
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