Should I answer good questions for which the OP has not tried anything (no effort at all)?
Yesterday, I came across this question. The OP hadn't shown any effort to solve the problem. Usually, I do the following things.
Politely ask OP what he has tried.
If the question directly asks for code, then down-vote/vote to close.
Wait for a few minutes for OP to respond with his code. Else vote to close.
For questions related to regex, algorithms, should I answer them even if the OP has not shown any effort?. I usually answer those. Why? Because there might be other people who might want to ask a similar thing (with or without effort), and it could be helpful to them.
discussion questions answers
TheLostMindTheLostMind
I tell you what. I usually leave a comment asking for some kind of effort. If nothing comes up, I just downvote/vote to close the question. But after receiving a serie of downvotes on my answers (old and unrelated) last night, at the exactly moment I tried to help a lost soul, I decided to stay out of this. If it's a good question and I know the answer, I'll answer it. Otherwise, I won't bother leaving any comment. Straight to voting. – melancia Sep 9 '14 at 6:12
The question in case might indeed be useful to others. It's your time - so if you feel like you want to answer it, answer it. I won't downvote you for spending your time but I won't upvote the question either. – Trilarion Sep 9 '14 at 8:15
@Trilarion - fair enough. – TheLostMind Sep 9 '14 at 8:15
I'll judge whether I can be bothered based on how much they could be bothered. I won't do someone's homework for them, but I may well offer a line of code or a suggested approach. – Sobrique Sep 9 '14 at 12:58
No, if Opie shows no effort after a reasonable number of comments asking to see it, downvote and close. Don't feed the cockroaches. The more you answer such questions the more you create a forest of context-free answers that don't really help the true "seeker". – Hot Licks Sep 9 '14 at 22:28
@HotLicks: If I came from google because google thinks I have a similar problem then I don't care how much effort OP had demonstrated (it can obscure the question, making it too localized, less useful for others), all I care is whether (?<!\\)& regex solves my particular issue. – jfs Sep 9 '14 at 22:38
@J.F. Sebastian, At least there you have a regex. Effort more or less means code, doesn't it? No effort = posting specs like stackoverflow.com/questions/25395180/… And something like in the question linked in the OP does not qualify as code; its a spec for a code writing service. – developerwjk Sep 9 '14 at 23:18
@J.F.Sebastian - But the Opie phrased the question as "Give me the specific X for Y", with no request or desire for an explanation or any guidance. Not the sort of thing that your effort-making seeker will find very helpful. – Hot Licks Sep 9 '14 at 23:46
Related Why answer a question not worth your upvote? – Braiam Sep 10 '14 at 1:50
There's a reason why "what have you tried?" can't be entered as a comment. – Matthew Lundberg Sep 10 '14 at 2:01
@MatthewLundberg what have you tried? – sgress454 Sep 10 '14 at 2:18
I think Robert Harvey's answer here draws a clear, important, and appropriate distinction. You should answer good questions irrespective of effort. But you should not answer overly broad questions that present a list of requirements. – Cody Gray♦ Sep 10 '14 at 3:14
@MelanciaUK I'd suggest you look and see if the serial downvoting got reversed and restored your reputation. If not, you might want to ask a moderator to take a look. – nhinkle Sep 11 '14 at 15:27
@MelanciaUK I took a look at some of your cluster downvoted posts, and after considering each one as an individual post, they seemed pretty solid to me. – Yakk - Adam Nevraumont Sep 11 '14 at 15:35
@Yakk Thanks for getting back to me. Appreciate that. – melancia Sep 11 '14 at 15:43
If you think a post will be useful to future visitors, there's no harm in answering it. The "What have you tried" question is more a fallback for cases where a person didn't give enough context in the question to give answerers a reference point from which to start. Without context, sometimes we make assumptions about a problem, where those assumptions are incorrect. But in cases where the problem is clear, it may not matter what the person tried.
However, this specific question is really unclear to me, and it may be unclear to others as well. Since you were able to see what the asker is asking, you may want to try editing the question to make it more clear. For instance, some basic copy editing may help. This not only helps preserve your answer by preventing the question from getting closed and deleted, but it also helps others with that same problem.
Lastly, there's a slight chance the asker may learn something from your example. Sometimes, askers learn how to ask better questions based on people showing them how.
UPDATE: While a slightly different issue, you may want to do a search to make sure the question hasn't already been asked. While it's good to answer questions that benefit the community, we don't want to answer duplicates.
jmort253jmort253
you are right.. If the question is unclear, it should be edited to make it clear. :) – TheLostMind Sep 9 '14 at 6:25
I agree but some other people don't – user2140173 Sep 9 '14 at 7:19
The problem is that if questions with no effort are answered you'll be answering what are essentially duplicates. Like in the example by me how above. If everyone posts an Excel schema and asks how to do something with it in VBA, then you'll have a jillion answered questions giving away free VBA code..turning SO into a code-writing service for each request. – developerwjk Sep 9 '14 at 23:15
@developerwjk - Now that's a different story. If the question is a duplicate, then vote to close it. If it's not a duplicate and there's nothing else close-worthy about it, then answer it. Perhaps it's worth adding that it's important to do a cursory search just to avoid answering something that's already been asked and spreading out the information... – jmort253 Sep 10 '14 at 3:08
Somehow "show your effort" has become a requirement unto its own over time. It was never meant that way. Nobody is required to demonstrate any particular effort before being allowed to ask a question. There's no way to prove effort anyway. It's just leads to pointless pleas of "I've googled for hours please help me".
We ask users to make an effort to solve their own problems, because often this'll lead to the solution and the question doesn't even need to get asked in the first place. If it doesn't do that, at least the OP can explain what they do understand about the problem and what they don't and thus help us help them. Lastly, it simply makes for a better question for future visitors, if a problem is clearly delineated from other similar problems by way of added details.
If a question is clear, useful, interesting, well defined and otherwise fits all the criteria we look for in a good question, then it's of no consequence how much effort the OP has or hasn't put into solving their own problem first.
If the question does not fulfill those criteria and is vague, unclear, too broad or otherwise bad, then it's also of no consequence how much effort the OP has put into solving their problem first. A question is good or bad on its own merits, not based on the amount of blood on the OPs forehead as a result of banging it against the wall.
It simply happens that good questions often are questions where the OP knows what they're talking about to some degree, because they have put in the effort to research the topic as far as they could, which resulted in a more informed question. That's not necessarily a precondition though.
deceze♦deceze
(Please note that I'm not in any way saying the question in question is good. It's pretty awful, missing effort being only one problem among many.) – deceze♦ Sep 9 '14 at 13:23
useless soup of words. You're being too strict (required*/*proof) on the main question : 'efforts' just to be ultra-vague on what you add after wise. You clearly state that you cannot evaluate the efforts made (...?) I quite often do, and i'd bet i'm not alone. You're just drowning the fish here, not clarifying anything. – GameAlchemist Sep 9 '14 at 13:50
@GameAlchemist I may ask a question after weeks of research, but without actually "revealing" how much research I have or haven't put into the question. The same way I may be asking a great question, knowing nothing about the topic in particular, simply because asking great questions is one of my skills. That's what I mean by "can't proof". Yes, sometimes it's obvious that the OP has no clue and hasn't even tried getting one. What I'm advocating is that this shouldn't be the deciding factor in answering a question or not. Yes, it's a "use your head" conclusion, which is vague by definition. – deceze♦ Sep 9 '14 at 14:10
The reason for wanting Opie to show some effort is that, without such effort, there is no learning. He'll just take the pre-cooked answer, plug it in, and never really understand what he's doing. – Hot Licks Sep 9 '14 at 22:30
"Show your effort" is very useful, since (if provided) it gives us a glimpse of what OP already know and his/her basic level. Then we can tailor our responses accordingly. – PM 77-1 Sep 10 '14 at 1:30
@Hot Sure, but suppose there's an excellent question which will be useful for many other people, you're going to not answer it to spite the OP? Ultimately we cannot make people learn. – deceze♦ Sep 10 '14 at 6:06
@PM77 Absolutely. If a question needs more information, asking the OP to add more information based on what they tried is useful. But this is not a rule or end to itself. – deceze♦ Sep 10 '14 at 6:08
@Hot Seriously: wut? Just to summarise what I'm saying, because maybe we have a misunderstanding here: yes, the best questions are often posted by people who put in effort, and the worst questions are often posted by people who put in no effort at all. But I'm saying that's not a direct correlation in all cases, and effort isn't what makes a question worth answering or not. Yes, ultimately we want people to learn, but it's up to every individual to learn or not learn. However, just because the OP didn't bother learning, maybe future visitors will learn from your answer. – deceze♦ Sep 10 '14 at 7:13
Are you gonna enjoy answering it? Is it a problem that you can really sink your teeth into, riff on, produce something you'll look back on fondly later (or, at very least, not be horribly embarrassed by)?
Because... if not, who cares how much effort the asker has put in? He might've made that question his life's work, but if you're gonna be miserable answering it then why should you bother?
Conversely, if you are gonna have some fun writing that answer... Who cares what the asker has done? Why should his stubbornness stand in the way of you finding a relaxing diversion?
The best part of SO is that - unlike so many forums before it - your work is not tied to the efforts of the asker, forever doomed to languish under a half-assed heading; once you're happy with your answer, you can even go back and edit the question to make it into a better showcase for your work!
Don't be a slave to asker effort. That's just a recipe for frustration. And this is supposed to be fun.
The very first line of the "Welcome to Stack Overflow" page states:
Stack Overflow is a question and answer site for professional and enthusiast programmers.
Asking a question of "how do I do x?" without even attempting a solution yourself shows a marked lack of enthusiasm. There are exceptions to every rule, but in general if you don't even know how to begin to answer your own question, it's probably not ready for Stack Overflow. Not stupid or unworthy--just not ready.
Setting a standard for questions isn't elitist; it's necessary to keep things in any way manageable. If the guidelines implied that certain people weren't good enough to post on SO, that would be elitist. A question like the one @me-how links to (paraphrase: "I have a table in Excel. How do I read into an array in VBA?") isn't terrible for, like, the world, but it's not great for SO. Whether it's explicitly stated or not, I think it's fair to say that there's a consensus in the community that Stack Overflow is not a code-writing service. In my opinion, the person who answered that question did the poster a huge favor, but did a disservice to the community at large by pushing the site one small step closer to being, among other things, a tutorial for VBA programming. There are already sites for that.
A common refrain in these situations seems to be, "if the answer could help other people, then it should be allowed (if not celebrated!) and you're being snobby for disagreeing". To which I would counter that posting the secret formula to Coke or a treasure map to El Dorado* would be pretty helpful to a lot of people, too, but that doesn't make it appropriate for Stack Overflow.
As to the specific question that started this whole discussion, in my opinion it's borderline--the poster has gotten far enough to identify a possible solution, but doesn't know how to implement it. It boils down to "please write me a regex". The regex tag description says:
Even if you are not well versed in regexes, it's better to show us what you've tried than simply asking the community to solve your problem.
so maybe a comment pointing the OP to an online regex tester would have been appropriate.
*because then you would be rich and could just pay someone to solve your coding problems.
sgress454sgress454
I'm sorry, but the El Dorado Coke analogy is just plain ridiculous. :P – deceze♦ Sep 10 '14 at 7:46
Take a bad argument to its logical conclusion and ridiculous is where you end up... – sgress454 Sep 10 '14 at 14:41
You should definitely answer it if it's clear. In my opinion the point of a community like this is that you don't have to attempt to solve every problem yourself. In this case the poster of the question may have had no reg ex experience and after a few Google searches found nothing. Are they supposed to go study reg ex, attempt a solution, and then post after burning hours on it when someone with expertise can type the answer in 30 seconds? I think not.
Personally I find it elitist, and a waste of time, that people read a question and then challenge the person on what they did instead of answering it. It's none of your business what they did or didn't do. If you can answer it then answer it. If you need more info to answer it then ask for it. If you can do neither of those then move on and leave your expectations that getting an answer from you first requires an acceptable amount of "effort".
Honorable ChowHonorable Chow
2,35377 silver badges11 bronze badge
I sort of agree with your second paragraph, but disagree with the first. Yes, it is your responsibility to try to learn something about the technologies you're working with. Following a regex tutorial about the basics maybe takes an hour or two of your life, but then allows you to answer your own questions for the rest of your life. A community like SO is not for doing everybody's learning for them; it's impossible at the scale SO is at. – deceze♦ Sep 9 '14 at 14:13
It's none of your business what they did or didn't do.. I disagree. I believe we(the SO community) also have a responsibility to ensure that the OP learns something from us (our answers). By asking what the OP has done?, we are ensuring that the OP will at least give it a try before posting questions. I agree, we answer questions out of interest, but still we should not be asked to do homeworks :P – TheLostMind Sep 9 '14 at 14:15
It's none of your business what they did or didn't do. Only partly. They don't have to spend hours, but we don't want 50 different questions asking how to handle a button click in C#. – Cullub Sep 9 '14 at 14:26
You say that you can't be bothered to do your own work, and you expect the community to just do your own work for you because spending some time trying to figure it out on your own isn't worth your time, and we're the elitist ones? You sure about that? – Servy Sep 9 '14 at 14:31
I'm sure, it's called teamwork. Do you really feel taken advantage of that you might just answer someones question? When people ask a question and I can answer it I do. No strings or expectations attached. The community would benefit more if that person spent some of that time answering questions in their area of expertise for the community than studying something to answer a question that someone else can answer as quickly as they can type it out. To me it's analogous to you knowing the answer is in a book and I ask you where and you tell me to read the whole book myself. – Honorable Chow Sep 9 '14 at 15:41
@TheLostMind. They did learn something, and you taught it to them. – Honorable Chow Sep 9 '14 at 16:01
Yes, sometimes, it's possible to answer based solely on the user's description of the problem. But seeing their work: helps to understand their programming level; helps to make sure they're not trying X when they should try Y; avoids proposing solutions they already tried and didn't work; etc. Without proof of effort we're not even sure if the person is a programmer. – brasofilo Sep 9 '14 at 17:12
I didn't say I couldn't be bothered to do my own work, you did. I also didn't say trying to figure it out wasn't worth my time, you also said that. what's not worth my time is making sure someone else did that while I stand like a snob refusing to help until you've met my personal expectations. – Honorable Chow Sep 10 '14 at 14:16
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