text: # How to redraw circuits in this problem to see series/paralle
  
  ## Homework Statement
  
  See pic for problem statment and diagram (we are dealing with the diagram on the right)
  http://i.imgur.com/Uv7Ikma.png
  I'll rewrite the problem statement here if that helps: Find R_T in the diagram for the cases where ab is open circuited and short circuited.
  
  And its solution in the textbook: The first part of is part a) the second part b)
  http://i.imgur.com/yYLGoFE.png
  
  Why is it that after combining the top two resistors and combining the bottom two resistors in the picture that the two resulting series combinations are parallel to each other?
  
  ## Homework Equations
  
  None, this is conceptual
  
  ## The Attempt at a Solution
  
  part a)
  I drew what I think combining the top two and bottom two resistors would look like here in part a for the open circuit case:
  http://i.imgur.com/Uv7Ikma.png
  In the pic with the shadow of the hand below, I draw more pictures and I dont' see why the circuit has anything parallel
  http://i.imgur.com/azqgWwD.png
  The picture drawn on the right labeled "parallel" was just for me to visually compare the left to see where the "two series combinations are in parallel" in the part a) solutions
  
  but I don't see how it leads to the statement in the solutiosn "The two series combinations are in parallel" for part a) which is the first solution in the solution imgur link
  
  In part b) the short circuited case, I have also drawn what I believe to be equivalent circuits in the short circuited case but dont understand why the 40/60 combo and 90/10 combo mentioned in the solutions are in series
  http://i.imgur.com/h4X5Dcn.png
  
  What are some smarter ways to draw the circuits to better see why certain combinations are in parallel or series?
  
  Related Introductory Physics Homework Help News on Phys.org
  BvU
  Homework Helper
  2019 Award
  What are some smarter ways to draw the circuits to better see why certain combinations are in parallel or series?
  To avoid errors like your last picture (*), you can flip the 90 Ω and 10 Ω resistors from left to right with the line ab as axis. The it becomes clear that 40 and 90 are in series, as are 60 and 10 (case ab open).
  
  (*) you draw a circle around a non-connection and move it to the top left as if that were short-circuited too (that would yiled RT=0 !)
  
  By te way, PF guidelines don't appreciate this way of posting with a lot of links. How long will the imgur pictures be available ?
  
  I see in another thread you started that you might even be in favour of expiring links to avoid copyright problems. But PF aims to build up a long-lasting 'database' of re-usable threads. One more reason to use picture uploads (preferable) and picture links only as a supplement, not as a substitute.
  
  #### Attachments
  
  • 4.4 KB Views: 361
  Last edited:
  ehild
  Homework Helper
  View attachment 77023
  
  You can walk from c to a and then from a to d (blue path). If nothing else is connected to a, the 40 Ω and 90 Ω resistors are connected in ????
  You can also reach from c to d along the green path. If noting is connected to b the 60 Ω and the 10 Ω resistors are connected in ????
  So you can redraw the circuit as in the picture on the right.
  What happens if a and b are short-circuited?
  
  Last edited:
  View attachment 77023
  
  You can walk from a to c and then from c to b (blue path). If nothing else is connected to c, the 40 Ω and 60 Ω resistors are connected in ????
  You can also reach from a to b along the green path. If noting is connected to d the 90 Ω and the 10 Ω resistors are connected in ????
  So you can redraw the circuit as in the picture on the right.
  What happens if c and d are short-circuited?
  I just want to confirm that the intersection X of blue and green and in circuit diagrams in general does not mean there is a physical intersection. Am I correct?
  So like the blue could come out of the page and the green could go under the page?
  
  BvU
  Homework Helper
  2019 Award
  I just want to confirm that the intersection X of blue and green and in circuit diagrams in general does not mean there is a physical intersection. Am I correct?
  So like the blue could come out of the page and the green could go under the page?
  Yes
  
  @ehild: the exercise wants RT, not Rab
  
  ehild
  Homework Helper
  I just want to confirm that the intersection X of blue and green and in circuit diagrams in general does not mean there is a physical intersection. Am I correct?
  So like the blue could come out of the page and the green could go under the page?
  There is no physical intersection in the middle of the drawing. If it was, it would be drawn by a circle, as it would be a node.
  Yes, the lines can go one above and the other below the paper.
  
  ehild
  Homework Helper
  Yes
  
  @ehild: the exercise wants RT, not Rab
  Sorry, I misread ...I attached a corrected picture. I hope, it i right now.
  
  Last edited:
  View attachment 77023
  
  You can walk from a to c and then from c to b (blue path). If nothing else is connected to c, the 40 Ω and 60 Ω resistors are connected in ????
  You can also reach from a to b along the green path. If noting is connected to d the 90 Ω and the 10 Ω resistors are connected in ????
  So you can redraw the circuit as in the picture on the right.
  What happens if c and d are short-circuited?
  I just want to make sure I understand the problem statement
  
  http://i.imgur.com/Uv7Ikma.png
  
  In part b) when they say short circuited they mean connecting terminals a and b, correct? Or is it c and d?
  
  ehild
  Homework Helper
  Sorry, I misread the problem. I corrected my original post and picture. The problem means a and b short-circuited. You have to find how the resistors are connected with respect to the terminals c and d.
  
  It is very important that you write the problem statement in your post. People can misread and forget what the question was, when the question is not in front of their eyes.
  
  ehild
  Homework Helper
  I just want to make sure I understand the problem statement
  
  http://i.imgur.com/Uv7Ikma.png
  
  In part b) when they say short circuited they mean connecting terminals a and b, correct? Or is it c and d?
explanation: The text extract contains a detailed homework problem and a discussion about circuit analysis, specifically focusing on identifying series and parallel combinations of resistors. The user is asking for clarification on how to redraw circuits to better understand the series and parallel connections, and there is an ongoing dialogue with another user (BvU and ehild) providing explanations and feedback.
  
  The extract includes a question and an attempt at a solution, but it does not contain a complete answer to the problem. The main question is about understanding why certain resistors are in series or parallel and how to redraw the circuits to see these connections more clearly.
distilabel_metadata.content: Evaluate the user given text extract and determine if it contains a math question and optionally and answer to this question.
  
  Output rules:
  
  1. Briefly describe the document and mention if it contains a question or a question and answer.
  2. Finalize the output with: Label: no-question,question,question-and-answer,multiple-question,multiple-question-and-answer
distilabel_metadata.role: system
distilabel_metadata.content: # How to redraw circuits in this problem to see series/paralle
  
  ## Homework Statement
  
  See pic for problem statment and diagram (we are dealing with the diagram on the right)
  http://i.imgur.com/Uv7Ikma.png
  I'll rewrite the problem statement here if that helps: Find R_T in the diagram for the cases where ab is open circuited and short circuited.
  
  And its solution in the textbook: The first part of is part a) the second part b)
  http://i.imgur.com/yYLGoFE.png
  
  Why is it that after combining the top two resistors and combining the bottom two resistors in the picture that the two resulting series combinations are parallel to each other?
  
  ## Homework Equations
  
  None, this is conceptual
  
  ## The Attempt at a Solution
  
  part a)
  I drew what I think combining the top two and bottom two resistors would look like here in part a for the open circuit case:
  http://i.imgur.com/Uv7Ikma.png
  In the pic with the shadow of the hand below, I draw more pictures and I dont' see why the circuit has anything parallel
  http://i.imgur.com/azqgWwD.png
  The picture drawn on the right labeled "parallel" was just for me to visually compare the left to see where the "two series combinations are in parallel" in the part a) solutions
  
  but I don't see how it leads to the statement in the solutiosn "The two series combinations are in parallel" for part a) which is the first solution in the solution imgur link
  
  In part b) the short circuited case, I have also drawn what I believe to be equivalent circuits in the short circuited case but dont understand why the 40/60 combo and 90/10 combo mentioned in the solutions are in series
  http://i.imgur.com/h4X5Dcn.png
  
  What are some smarter ways to draw the circuits to better see why certain combinations are in parallel or series?
  
  Related Introductory Physics Homework Help News on Phys.org
  BvU
  Homework Helper
  2019 Award
  What are some smarter ways to draw the circuits to better see why certain combinations are in parallel or series?
  To avoid errors like your last picture (*), you can flip the 90 Ω and 10 Ω resistors from left to right with the line ab as axis. The it becomes clear that 40 and 90 are in series, as are 60 and 10 (case ab open).
  
  (*) you draw a circle around a non-connection and move it to the top left as if that were short-circuited too (that would yiled RT=0 !)
  
  By te way, PF guidelines don't appreciate this way of posting with a lot of links. How long will the imgur pictures be available ?
  
  I see in another thread you started that you might even be in favour of expiring links to avoid copyright problems. But PF aims to build up a long-lasting 'database' of re-usable threads. One more reason to use picture uploads (preferable) and picture links only as a supplement, not as a substitute.
  
  #### Attachments
  
  • 4.4 KB Views: 361
  Last edited:
  ehild
  Homework Helper
  View attachment 77023
  
  You can walk from c to a and then from a to d (blue path). If nothing else is connected to a, the 40 Ω and 90 Ω resistors are connected in ????
  You can also reach from c to d along the green path. If noting is connected to b the 60 Ω and the 10 Ω resistors are connected in ????
  So you can redraw the circuit as in the picture on the right.
  What happens if a and b are short-circuited?
  
  Last edited:
  View attachment 77023
  
  You can walk from a to c and then from c to b (blue path). If nothing else is connected to c, the 40 Ω and 60 Ω resistors are connected in ????
  You can also reach from a to b along the green path. If noting is connected to d the 90 Ω and the 10 Ω resistors are connected in ????
  So you can redraw the circuit as in the picture on the right.
  What happens if c and d are short-circuited?
  I just want to confirm that the intersection X of blue and green and in circuit diagrams in general does not mean there is a physical intersection. Am I correct?
  So like the blue could come out of the page and the green could go under the page?
  
  BvU
  Homework Helper
  2019 Award
  I just want to confirm that the intersection X of blue and green and in circuit diagrams in general does not mean there is a physical intersection. Am I correct?
  So like the blue could come out of the page and the green could go under the page?
  Yes
  
  @ehild: the exercise wants RT, not Rab
  
  ehild
  Homework Helper
  I just want to confirm that the intersection X of blue and green and in circuit diagrams in general does not mean there is a physical intersection. Am I correct?
  So like the blue could come out of the page and the green could go under the page?
  There is no physical intersection in the middle of the drawing. If it was, it would be drawn by a circle, as it would be a node.
  Yes, the lines can go one above and the other below the paper.
  
  ehild
  Homework Helper
  Yes
  
  @ehild: the exercise wants RT, not Rab
  Sorry, I misread ...I attached a corrected picture. I hope, it i right now.
  
  Last edited:
  View attachment 77023
  
  You can walk from a to c and then from c to b (blue path). If nothing else is connected to c, the 40 Ω and 60 Ω resistors are connected in ????
  You can also reach from a to b along the green path. If noting is connected to d the 90 Ω and the 10 Ω resistors are connected in ????
  So you can redraw the circuit as in the picture on the right.
  What happens if c and d are short-circuited?
  I just want to make sure I understand the problem statement
  
  http://i.imgur.com/Uv7Ikma.png
  
  In part b) when they say short circuited they mean connecting terminals a and b, correct? Or is it c and d?
  
  ehild
  Homework Helper
  Sorry, I misread the problem. I corrected my original post and picture. The problem means a and b short-circuited. You have to find how the resistors are connected with respect to the terminals c and d.
  
  It is very important that you write the problem statement in your post. People can misread and forget what the question was, when the question is not in front of their eyes.
  
  ehild
  Homework Helper
  I just want to make sure I understand the problem statement
  
  http://i.imgur.com/Uv7Ikma.png
  
  In part b) when they say short circuited they mean connecting terminals a and b, correct? Or is it c and d?
distilabel_metadata.role: user
distilabel_metadata.raw_output_q_a_detector_0: The text extract contains a detailed homework problem and a discussion about circuit analysis, specifically focusing on identifying series and parallel combinations of resistors. The user is asking for clarification on how to redraw circuits to better understand the series and parallel connections, and there is an ongoing dialogue with another user (BvU and ehild) providing explanations and feedback.
  
  The extract includes a question and an attempt at a solution, but it does not contain a complete answer to the problem. The main question is about understanding why certain resistors are in series or parallel and how to redraw the circuits to see these connections more clearly.
  
  Label: question-and-answer