I did a search and could not find a topic on this. Can I get some info from current employees on how this works?
This is all I know about it.
It’s really all any of us know about it.
Any latest on how the CPP is working out at Air Wisconsin?
Has anyone heard anything about AW Hogan pass rates, interview pass rates, and pool size? Is the AW CPP percentage known?
Talked do a guy who finished the interview and the word is 5% of UAL classes will be ZW. I'm sure they will adjust it to suit their needs. They are also waiting until we have a full quarter of exclusive UAL flying so we are eligible in July. Now, if UAL will run a class or two we could give you actual numbers.
Hogan rates anecdotally seem to be about industry average.
5%???? 1/20????? 30 twice per month classes equates to 36 in a fantasy world. Run the numbers and see how long it will take from new hire to class date through CPP.
I thought our percentage would be higher than Commutair solely based on our pilot group being roughly twice the size.
All of this is contingent on UA running classes with any regularity, and ATW letting the pilots in the CPP go when we clearly can’t keep our own airline staffed.
Maybe it will be better when we become a wholly owned, that’s the “best” latest rumor.
I hear we are skipping the wholly owned stage of evolution and we will be given numbers at united beginning 3rd qt of next year. It will be similar to a SLI situation where if opted in we will be given an employee number slot, 3 new hires 1 AWAC slot. They are working on 200 rates in a mid cycle contract negotiation sit downs.
It finally starting to look promising for us, just hang in there a little longer.... by the way we have an extension for you, please call scheduling.
UAL FA's have some sort of clause in their agreement that prevents United from owning any other carrier unless it's staffed by their FAs.
So, you can put that rumor to bed.
Couldn't they just assimilate all the ZW flight attendants?
I just don’t get why a mainline flight attendant would ever want to go from a 737-777 to a regional jet.
About 15 years. These flow programs or CPPs are more a gimmick to staff the regionals than they are a genuine path to a legacy. These programs need to go away.
Yeah but you made way more money suckin off buffalo nickle a heard.
:dyeah but you made way more money suckin off buffalo nickle a heard.
Maybe so,but give us ONE good reason United would want to buy awac ?? Why would they need to?
To own a load of old,worn out 200's? For the pilots? United has more apps on file than they can sift through, so whats the point?
Dosent make any sense as to why they would even consider it.
The current awac is not the awac of 10,20 or 30 years ago.Things have changed. So please enlighten us with your rational and reasoning.
Unfortunately these programs are here to stay. Flow works for AA on numerous levers. I don’t personally agree with flow but not much I can do about it. I would much rather see preferential interviews.
Of course. You bid off the plane after 6 months. You're then awarded at Group 2 pay aircraft and you'll be withheld on the plane for over a year if you change bases. Not a bad deal. Great schedule and great pay. Come on over.
BWAH HA HA HA!!! Man, you're slaying it.
This rumor has been going around in some shape or form at every UAL feeder for years. While it's obviously possible, I wouldn't base any career decisions on this one.
I highly doubt you’ve been withheld for year and a half.
Change equipment or bases and watch them reset your Withhold. There are 4 people that are coming up on 2.5 years because of it.
Not really. My comment was in regard to Billy bragging about his 3rd year pay. Which on the 190 is nothing to write home about, $101.63.
You’re missing the point. Again, Billy keeps bragging about his pay. Third year pay on the 190 is sh*t. Narrow body is a different story. It’s very possible he’s being withheld form the Airbus. I think he’s exaggerating how long he’s being withheld. Im guessing 4-5 months.
Keeps bragging? Where was I bragging about my pay? The flow was being bashed as being a fraud or a smoke screen. All I said was 3rd year pay at mainline doesn't have me complaining about the flow.
I'm on 3rd pay and making over 150 dollars an hour to basically fly an RJ at group 2 pay. It's all gravy to me. Plus I'm flying with a few TWA guys making Group 2 Captain pay on the same RJ.
I will agree that I think American should take over the hiring process from the WO's. However I don't think the HR department could handle it. They can barely keep up with hiring of Non-Flows as it is. Remember in 10 years half the seniority list at American will be out the door. Anyone hired today will probably see Group 2 Capt. in 7-8 years. Enjoy.
Ive flown with a few guys pushing 3 years on the 190 who have been getting g2 pay for 2 years.
There are only 4-5 guys getting second year g1 fo pay, and that’s their choice.
I know how it work. He said.. she said...I heard... simple man, show me the vacancy award. lm having a hard time believing you guys, sorry. I can show you 1 year FOs on the 190 being released. So explain to me how someone is withheld for 2+ years. Only pilot I can see being witheld long term are 190 to S-80. Last vacancy award had like 3 or 4.
Lol ok tough guy. I don’t know billy but i do know guys who’ve been withheld into year 3. I fly with guys in this situation often.
He already explained to you how to be withheld long term. You bid a different base and that restarts your withhold.
It’s pretty simple. Plus i could care less about this topic so i have no reason to make stuff up.
It’s pretty simple. Plus i coulid care less about this topic so i have no reason to make stuff up.
Quiet!! You’re a Captain on the 190. You know nothing!!
In a few months I got a buddy going into 4th pay.
Tough guy? You want a tissue? I hope you enjoy flying with “group 2/3/4 paid 190 FOs”. I’m sorry if I hurt your feelings.
Captain 1 = 1 year at AA. I hurt his feelings. Now I feel bad!
Can't you guys just make a "billyho containment thread" so the rest of us can avoid his dribble and trolling?
Man this thread went way off the rails. I was trying to find out if there was any new info on CPP class dates or number of slots allotted to AW but instead I found out that nobody at AA seems to understand their contract. Seriously though, until AA gives up their flow and starts hiring for top quality again it is pretty pointless to discuss them on AW threads since basically no one gets hired there anymore.
Flows with over 5,000 hours flying in their system along with Military guys?
I think they’re doing just fine getting quality people. Plus the only people that ***** and whine about a flow program are the ones not in it.
Now as for knowing our contact? Lol that needs work.
They are getting top quality pilots. If they didn't think they were it never would have happened. Sorry buddy. Sorry AA rarely hires Awac pilots anymore but because the flows are doing more than well enough.... why should they? Maybe apply to PDT or ENY. Also, Billy is a great dude.
That way by 2027 you’ll have a job at American.
CPP at AWAC is sh*t. How many guys are at UA via CPP? How many failed the Hogan test? Anyone anyone flowing to AA (PDT, Envoy, PSA) have 8+ years regional flying experience. So explain to me how they are less “quality” of a pilots than wn 8 year AWAC Pilot?
People opted out of the CPP.
People didn’t have their applications complete, or had errors that UA didn’t like.
We don’t know what percentage of class makeup we will be, and no one has been selected for groundschool at UA. Hopefully by this summer staffing will stabilize (haha) and we will be over staffed just enough to let people go if UA is running classes.
Even if you made it past the interview there are still lots of unanswered questions. Hopefully this summer/fall we will see how this CPP works for us.
Plus, I think I read that Mesa is getting a CPP too.
Do you hire UA or does UA hire you? It’s a path to a major not THE path to a major. Another avenue if you will.
Lol you’re an effing kid aren’t you? 9 years to American from day 1at a regional. LOL. Pretty standard up until a year or two ago. Also Delta, UPS, etc are hiring PDT (and others obviously but we are talking about PDT in this instance) pilots outside the flow so less than 9 years if they want... enjoy awac.
He has been great. Never had issues with him at AWAC or PDT.
No worries. I'm long gone. Have heard he's not too terrible. Their main cp is an ollllld line pilot from alg and PDT then DO at PSA back to pdt who is very reasonable but likes to have the occasional jerk moment just to try and show how smart he is.
Sounds like he doesn’t have he authority he had and abused at AWAC. Such as disciplining pilots with medical issues.
I dont know what the interview board is looking for in a CPP candidate.
A mentee that I am mentoring passed his Hogan Assesment but did not pass the interview with United CPP. It was not with Air Wisconsin. This was with Lufthansa Training Center. So now to reapply for a CPP he has to wait 1 year from letter. He is now looking at regionals and I dont know if he can apply for the CPP at a later date once he is hire into a regional with United CPP program. Or has to apply for it right away when he applies for Air Wisconsin or Commute Air. Is he given only one shot at the beginning of employment because that would unqualify him. He was turned down this past week. Or can he after 1 year of employment with Air Wisconsin reapply for the CPP. Does any one know?
That's another question: how many are passing Hogan and Failing interview, etc..... Any info word of mouth?
He said no longer pilots direct problem at PDT either... he’s out of the CP Office and off to other things.
Piedmont has a new CP in PHL, the one that came from AWAC is no longer going to be dealing with pilots. They’re moving on to do something else at the company.
I’ll be looking into the Lufthansa program in the future and this is very illuminating, thanks for posting.
Good. Eddie is an *******. He disciplined pilots for medical reasons.
Fired one for depression. Seatlocked another for sleep apnea and tried to discipline one for a death in their family. He doesn’t deserve to have any position of authority. I hope he gets sent back to the line and had to fly like everyone else. Then again I heard he’s a crappy pilot anyway.
:) he was such a pleasure work for said no one.
It’s a pathway to United. You go in as a relatively new instructor and the 18 months that you spend there are technically the same 18 months that you would have spent somewhere else building your 1500 hours. If you can’t pass the Hogan or weren’t able to pass the United interview you can just go apply at a regional after your reach your 1500hrs/18months and go from there. I’m sure it’s not easy to get hired at the school and the United interview is probably very challenging as well since they are essentially hiring a fresh instructor, but for those who are interested I think it’s worth a shot.
The LAT USA / United Airlines Career Path Program offers qualified flight instructors a direct pathway to a US Major Airline. Candidates who are qualified and selected will, after 18 months of flight instruction with LAT USA and meeting the program completion requirements, be placed in the hiring pool at United as a First Officer on their narrow body fleet.
I’m reading this to mean that if in the 18 months instructing with Luft. you pass the Hogan and the United interview you will then be placed in the United pool after 18 months. Now, I don’t know if there are any other shenanigans that might pop up like the school keeping you as an instructor for much longer than the 18 or so months. We would need input from actual students of that school for that.
I’m just skeptical. It all sounds amazing, but I feel like you have to wait until the 1500 hours or 18 months to apply for the CPP. By the time you take the Hogan and do the interview THEN get a class date, how much time have you really spent at the school? I could be wrong and I hope I am, but it sounds too good to be true.
At what point are people opting in to the CPP and taking the Hogan? Is it during training or some point after? If it’s after how long after training do you have to wait?
You have a year from hour hire date to enroll. It’s been 6+ months since the second round of CPP enrollment closed and as far I know no one from that group has taken the hogan yet. Could be tomorrow, could be another year, no one really knows. The people through it successfully are moving along pretty regularly so I’d anticipate sooner rather than later but no one really knows.
Anyone gotten the Hogan yet, or know why it hasn’t been put out yet?
It will be interesting to see if the union survey puts out any results that are worth a turd.
I’ve heard ~40 this year to United. Not sure if that’s accurate though because the last couple months have only been 2 a month. Unless we do 3 a month that number is likely to fall short. The good news is, United is looking to hire 600-800 pilots this year. Though there was recently an ALPA merger meeting between UAL and B6. Not saying there will be a merger, but if there is, it may temporarily stop hiring.
I think I read in ALPA magazine that XJT has a 25% United new hire class CPP guarantee. There was another UAX carrier (I forgot which, maybe Republic) advertising a 10% class guarantee. I haven't heard a hard number from Skywest, but I'll bet it's substantial. That leaves AW, Commutair, GoJet, Mesa, and TransStates to fight over MAYBE 300 slots??? Not counting what United does in direct street hires ... 40 is already less than 5% of expected hiring and they don't look on track for that at the moment. Yes, a few AW folks will get picked to make good on the promise but I doubt it will be over 20 in 2019.
This is wrong on so many levels. It actually hurts to read it.
The only regional airlines that UAL has CPP agreements with at this time are Expressjet, Air Wisconsin, Commutair, and Mesa.
Skywest has no agreement, and no CPP slots. Same for Republic. Same for Trans States and GoJet.
We are sending people to UAL via the CPP. I personally know 3 that left in January...and I’d be willing to bet there was a 4th.
It’s not a huge number, it’s not a true flow, but it is a way for many of our pilots that deserve to move on to do so.
Respectfully, you really need to get your facts straight before you post. As mentioned, your CPP airlines are all wrong. This is exactly how bad rumors start and a great lesson in not believing everything you read on Internet forums.
Now that I know "the facts" it makes the CPP program for ZW even more frustrating. Of the few players in the game, a couple have been given class size percentage guarantees. Not ZW. It is my opinion, only supported by my observations, that a 10% guarantee to ZW would be fair. If that were the case, we would be talking about 60-80 going to UA this year not 40 or less.
I was also acquainted with a couple of the people who have had a chance to move up to UA and was happy for them. I saw a new article yesterday that said the CPP MEC members met to discuss the program and early poll results. I did fill out the poll. I hope their discussions were fruitful and will result in a better program.
Looks like the CP is planning on leaving for the CPP.
Good for him, onward and upward right?