Discussion in 'Hypertrophy-Specific Training (HST)' started by Old and Grey, Jun 22, 2018.
Interesting studies questioning the need for recovery days. As with all studies, the conclusions are generic, based on limited data and may not fit you particular circumstances. Not sure if these have been talked about on here recently but have been away and not caught up on all the threads yet.
I think the main take-away point is that if you miss a workout, you can make it up and not have to permanently lose it. However, in this case, the actual benefit is probably more psychological than physiological.
Ah wow, that's utterly fascinating, thanks O&G!
So you can actually train consecutive days and still get the same benefits... am not sure how long that can last for but that's interesting... I'll keep that in mind actually if I only have time that week to do a full body session the very next day after a session then I should just go for it.
"One recent study showed that 37 C days of high intensity squatting increased (based on values with no significance testing) the 1RM for squat in two male powerlifters and one male weightlifter, with the peak 1RM (tested daily except day 36) occurring on day 35 or 37 (Zourdos et al., 2016)."
@Jester and @Browner go nuts XD. That would so hard to keep up... I guess it depends on the volume.
"Another subsequent study of five resistance-trained men showed that 21 C days of 1RM testing and maximal voluntary isometric contraction of the elbow flexors significantly improved the 1RM strength in both arms to a similar extent, and that the arm that performed three additional sets of elbow flexions daily also significantly increased arm muscle thickness (Dankel et al., 2017)."
@NWlifter hey this sort of answers your progressive tension thread, very cool!
Ps. And great to have you back by the way . How's the shoulder recovery going mate?
Simon, slow and painful. The grafting occurs at only about 15% per month so I am out of the gym until Oct or so and then very light. Thanks for asking.
Daily lifting has been a thing for a while .
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When I was really focused on benching I found back to back days of hard training really beneficial.
Mike T has said as much in podcasts a number of times.
I think it’s somewhat along the lines of a theory from Mike Israetel’s, being that the smaller muscles are, the more frequently you can train them using XYZ load and volume.
This would make sense when you consider how tiny chest, tris and deltoids are compared to quads and posterior chain.
Obviously there’s the same old caveat of connective tissue recovery, but that applies in any theory.
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Sometimes I think we can over analyse studies, and forget to focus on what works for you. Nothing to stop you conducting your own studies.
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My deadlift went from 150kg to 300kg in two years, including months off for knee surgery and a cracked rib, doing heavy singles every week, doing 3-4 sessions per week.
And my back and glutes blew up.
I’ll never understand the argument that load isn’t the driver of hypertrophy. Would work for everyone? Maybe not, most people can’t handle the mental aspect I think. 3x10 is so much more appealing to work ethics that embrace the mindset of accepting mediocrity.
EDIT: I should add, 3x10 is fine, 3x6-9 etc. and all that. But the idea that you can stay in that range forever with minimal load progression relative to 1RM just baffles me. You’ll get the hypertrophy and strength you need to adapt to, and become better at 3x10.
How long does that hypertrophy last with chemical assistance?
I’m willing to bet the hypertrophy you need to go from a 200kg squat to a 300kg squat, is a lot more than going from 3x10-100kg —> 3x10-110kg, even though the work done on the latter is through the roof by comparison.
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Hehe good ol Ronnie, whatta bloke XD. I haven't spent a great deal of time in the heavier ranges the last few years, so I'm definitely gonna do that. Am enjoying the 5s at the moment, heavy bench and BB rows feel awesome, and am stoked that I've been able to do it and not flareup any of my pelvic stuff . Am gonna push/extend the 5s as far as they will go. Still gonna do 5 reps for the first set, but as I progress I'll cluster the subsequent sets probably.
It is hard with all the varied studies and experiments out there, many showing that it's purely load, others showing it's volume. But unfortunately it's like current conditioning isn't even mentioned or focused on, both work RELATIVE to where you're at. The current conditioning of the tissue matters.
There seems to be a need for balance of volume and load, but for continued hypertrophy absolutely you need to be getting stronger over time.
What's interesting is the stagnating that can happen in both lower load training and higher load training. Happens faster in lower load stuff, so I guess keeping in mind that it's a constantly moving target, and progressing tension being the best catalyst for keeping up with or staying ahead of that moving target.
I think studies rarely replicate actual training programs or scenarios.
Comparing hypertrophy over 12 weeks of the sme programming means very little against a lifetime of lifting in the rear view or horizon.
They’re a good thing to have on hand to consider, but let’s not throw out 70years of testing in gyms either.
I don't care what a study says if it contradicts what I've learned myself, with my own training.
I’m fat and cutting, so I'm not looking at currently going crazy frequency, yet (!), but thinking down the road.
Ignoring the negatives phase, has anyone tried taking a basic primary lifts HST program and cramming it into a 3 week cycle (instead of 6 weeks)?
So, 6 days per week, or heck, even every day. Every 6th workout is a “Rep Max” day.
With the 5 days of training before that, there should be enough stimulus where it’s not really a true max (assuming recovery, of course). So, it's basically a weekly training max, as opposed to the "max everyday" Broz/powerlifting style.
Plus, the day after, and several days after that, are "deloads" to allow for recovery before the next RM day.
I'm guessing this type of high frequency would "grease the groove" and largely be neural gains?
You can workout as often as you can recover. I find 2-3 workouts a week is my max because I live a high stress life, I'm 37 and I hate sleeping. Sometimes I workout more than that, but in a short amount of time I can see/feel a fatigue debt and I can feel it in my personality, alertness and overall pain level.
Hmm intriguing! I have a feeling it may be overkill, I know I'd struggle recovery-wise doing that. And even though they're submax weights for those days it's still gonna be tiring.. and full body every workout..
It would be an interesting experiment, but to me it makes sense to spread it out over the 6 weeks, you'd get growth over a longer period of time. And it's possible you'd not recover well and your gains could be horrendous..
But as a short intensity burst of 3 weeks I'd be interested to see what happens!