During a 1997 visit to London, he said that "the ruler of South Africa, the de facto ruler, is Thabo Mbeki" and that he was "shifting everything to him"
Paulendo wake ku London mu  chaka cha 1997, adanena kuti 'wolamulira wa South Africa, wolamulira wamkulu, ndi Thabo Mbeki' ndipo 'akusinthira zonse kwa iye