
Researchers Find Gut Bacteria Can Lead to Strokes - frgtpsswrdlame
http://www.sciencealert.com/researchers-find-gut-bacteria-can-trigger-brain-lesions-that-lead-to-strokes
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neuro_imager
This article is interesting but misleading. (I do surgeries on patients with
strokes):

CCMs (cavernous malformations) are vascular lesions, rare vascular lesions and
relatively rarely they can bleed and cause "strokes" (as in neurological
deficits in patients).

However CCMs that bleed make up a minuscule fraction of a percentage of all
patients who have strokes (which are generally caused by ischemia - blockages
to vessels with decreased oxygenated blood to the brain).

The title should read 'gut bacteria can potentially trigger rare type of brain
vascular malformations'.

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ar-jan
Can I ask your opinion on a (somewhat) related recent book? (specifically, it
has examples about succesfully using diet changes instead of surgery, for
people who were already scheduled to have heart surgery).

Namely "The Plant Paradox" by Dr. Gundry. From what I found he is (or used to
be) a well-respected heart surgeon with some influential papers on his name.
But I could find just a few summary articles on his current research program,
which focuses on diet, foods with lectins in particular, and their relation to
auto-immune disease, obesity, heart problems, and more.

I found the book very interesting, and his theories seem plausible to me
(someone with no medical background whatsoever). But I also got the impression
he may be overstating his case a bit, over-generalizing, so I was wondering
about the opinions of medical experts on his work.

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Turing_Machine
Stomach ulcers (formerly thought to be caused by stress) and chronic fatigue
syndrome (formerly thought by many to be psychological) have both been linked
to infections in recent years. Now strokes, and I think I've seen something
about heart problems as well.

I wonder how many other diseases will wind up having bacterial or viral
causes.

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sjg007
Heart disease, plaque! Brush teeth!

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pygy_
Not sure why this was downvoted...

At least the last time I checked, mouth flora bacteria had been found growing
in atherosclerosis lesions, and poor dental hygiene was linked to and
increased risk of cardiovascular disease.

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tudorw
I find this a fascinating subject, it would seem our gut microbiota is a
driving force of much of the bio-chemistry that we experience as
consciousness, serotonin, adrenaline, dopamine, oxytocin are all influenced by
the state of our gut microbiota and it's great to see so much research in this
area, how we feel seems to have a lot to do with what we eat...

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pazimzadeh
Yes indeed. Tomorrow I'm presenting my rotation findings on outer membrane
vesicle (OMV) formation in _Bacteroides thetaiotaomicron_ in the lab of Mario
Feldman. Here's a TEM image of this bacteria and its OMV's:
[http://imgur.com/a/oJiaT](http://imgur.com/a/oJiaT)

The Bacteroidetes phylum make up the largest fraction of the gut microbiome.
Bacteroides is the largest class of that phylum. Unlike the OMV's of other
gram negative bacteria, those of Bacteroidetes are selectively packed with
cargo such as sugar hydrolyzing enzymes facing the outside.

This increases the surface area available for the producing cell, but also
allows nearby cells to indulge on the now public goods.
[http://www.cell.com/current-
biology/fulltext/S0960-9822(13)0...](http://www.cell.com/current-
biology/fulltext/S0960-9822\(13\)01385-7)

~~~
tudorw
Good luck with your presentation, you're in an astounding field at an
astounding time, synthetic enzymes and bacteria will I believe open a huge
field in medicine. Our understanding of the human experience, understanding
mind and body as fully integrated system, is making good progress.

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dghughes
Here in Canada the CBC TV show 'The Nature of Things' recently had a show
about the human gut microbiome: [http://www.cbc.ca/natureofthings/episodes/it-
takes-guts](http://www.cbc.ca/natureofthings/episodes/it-takes-guts)

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bwb
Small prediction - Over the next 5 years you are going to see all the media
pick up gut bacteria as the next revolution of medical science as we learn how
all this shit works. It is like a 2nd brain in your body and the foreign
bacteria are so interesting in what they can do.

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doobiedowner
I'd be more willing to bet that the media will pick up on it because of
advertising dollars. Companies like dupont are raking in cash on probiotics,
they can't brew up enough of those little buggers.

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esalazar
I wonder if fecal transplants could prevent or hold this off.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fecal_microbiota_transplant](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fecal_microbiota_transplant)

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WaxProlix
Or a diet rich in resistant starches? Higher levels of butyrate et al might
help keep these B. fragilis communities in check. Or maybe not. That's sort of
the kicker with gut bacteria, it's such a complex system and so hard to
measure that getting at causality can be tough.

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bodhibyte
Resistant starch is awesome for your good bacteria as it helps them produce
butyrate and other short chain fatty acids that are really good for your gut
cells. Excellent video on the subject here:
[https://nutritionfacts.org/video/getting-starch-to-take-
the-...](https://nutritionfacts.org/video/getting-starch-to-take-the-path-of-
most-resistance)

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korm
I'd be wary of:

\- Someone with 2 comments in total pointing to the same site

\- A site called 'facts' showing a doctor selling books

\- A site about nutrition focusing almost entirely on veganism

\- A doctor who seems to push a vegan agenda and has a sort of cult following
in the vegan community

\- Cherry picking sources. It's quite obvious from reading some of the
articles, and while I don't doubt veganism is good for you, it makes me doubt
the site's credibility even more.

~~~
cies
> Someone with 2 comments in total pointing to the same site

I have some more posts here, and also refer to the site a lot.

> A site called 'facts' showing a doctor selling books

I think the name of the site is a pun on the label that provides some info on
the macros of many packaged food products. Afaik that label is titles
"nutritionfacts" in the states.

The book he sells is great. Most (I guess all) of the info is also available
for free on the website. And he donates the proceeds of the book. I'm also
wary of doctors selling stuff (and pharma for that matter), but this guys
seems not to be getting excessively rich on this. He seems intrinsically
motivated.

> A site about nutrition focusing almost entirely on veganism

It focuses on evidence based nutrition. The doctor and his team claim to have
evidence that a "whole plant food" diet is superior when it comes to
preventing/reverting some diseases that are the leading killers/disablers in
the western world.

> A doctor who seems to push a vegan agenda and has a sort of cult following
> in the vegan community

There's a list of prominent doctors that come to the same conclusions. Sure
vegans feel at home with this narrative. But that should not make it less
valuable information.

> Cherry picking sources. It's quite obvious from reading some of the
> articles, and while I don't doubt veganism is good for you, it makes me
> doubt the site's credibility even more.

That he (and others in this "nutrition against disease" movement) is cherry
picking is often said. I believe it is hard to prove or disprove. And there is
a lot of evidence that pharma is also guilty for cherry picking and
manipulation. So it comes down to us having to make a choice ourselves. Who do
you trust? Doctors/pharma selling chemicals without any consideration of diet,
or doctors telling you to fix your diet to something "whole plant based"
before trying chemicals? This is the main question for me at least.

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korm
I agree with your last point, it's hard to trust, which is why I err on the
side of caution and try to avoid sites pushing one radical opinion over
others. Paleo, vegan, atkins, there are tons of people, physicians included,
insisting their research is the best. So I think it's prudent to hold a more
moderate stance on nutrition, an attitude of 'we don't know, let's find out'
instead of 'I know best, trust me'.

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dharma1
So is it a good idea to take supplementary prebiotic fibre and/or probiotics?

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dang
Who are we to argue with that! Changed above.

We detached this subthread from
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14320890](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14320890)
and marked it off-topic.

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hammock
Did you understand that? The article's title is 100% correct and did not need
to be changed.

Parent is making a non sequitur point that most strokes are caused by
blockages, not lesions.

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dang
You people are a tough review board. How about we take 'lesions' out?

Sadly I am not one of the 3 users who understand everything that gets posted
here.

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Boothroid
Am I the only one that thinks medical science seems vastly behind where it
ought to be? Is there something holding it back or is it just phenomenally
complex and difficult?

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codecamper
eat yer yogurt folks!

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codecamper
I take it people here do not like yogurt.

