text:
football, ohio
A Look At Ohio's Mr. Football Selections Over The Years
(12-11-20) Yesterday Roger Bacon RB Corey Kiner was named the 2020 Mr. Football in Ohio. He joins a select list of players that have won the honor since it started in 1987.
As a senior in 1987 Zanesville's Buster Howe (5-11, 182) was named the 1st Mr. Football in Ohio. Howe rushed for 1,795 yards and scored 34 touchdowns. As a single wing back, he added 431 passing yards. How was quite versatile adding eight interceptions, three field goals, 38 extra points and averaged 40.9 yards per punt.
Ten MrFootball's have attended Ohio State, eleven if you count Joe Burrow. Burrow started his career as a Buckeye before transferring to LSU and winning a national title in 2020. The last Mr. Ohio to go to Ohio State was 2018 Mr. Ohio Cade Stover (Lexington).
Two brothers have won the award Kenton's Ben Mauk and his brother Maty, both QBs who fit the offensive plans of their dad Coach Mike Mauk.
There have been two two-time winners, Euclid's Robert Smith (1988, 1989) and North Canton Hoover RB Erick Howard who won in 2008-2009.
Just seven Mr. Football's came from private schools.
Three schools have had two players win the award, Euclid, Kenton and Mentor.
Two Mr. Football's, Charles Woodson and Joe Burrow have won the Heisman Trophy in college.
Several Stateline area players have won the Mr. Ohio award, including St. Henry's Bobby Hoying, Piqua's Brandon Saine and Mississinawa Valley's Curtis Ennis.
Mitch Trubisky, Bobby Hoying and Curtis Ennis
Corey Kiner, Brandon Saine and Maty Mauk
Buster LoweCorey KinerMr. Football
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FALL RIVER, Mass. – Two associates of former New England Patriots tight end Aaron Hernandez have been indicted on murder charges in connection with the shooting of a man last summer near Hernandez's Massachusetts home.
The Bristol County district attorney's office said Friday a grand jury returned indictments against Carlos Ortiz and Ernest Wallace in connection with the killing of semi-professional football player Odin Lloyd.
Hernandez has pleaded not guilty to murder in the June killing of Lloyd, a Boston man who was dating the sister of Hernandez's fiancee.
The district attorney's office says Ortiz and Wallace will be arraigned later.
Ortiz and Wallace are from Bristol, Conn. They were charged previously with accessory to murder after the fact and have pleaded not guilty.
Ortiz's lawyer says he hasn't seen the indictment but calls it "totally ridiculous."


text:
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redpajama_set_name: RedPajamaGithub


You don't need to make drastic changes to your eating habits in order to achieve your ideal shape. You don't need to skip meals. And you definitely don't need to deny yourself your favorite treats! In fact, you can achieve incredible weight loss results by simply enjoying more delicious foods. The secret is in enjoying the right fat-blasting foods at the right mealtimes, and that's what we reveal in this new book!
Created by IdealShape head trainers and nutritionists Trainers Kami and Zac Price, the IdealPlan is a complete plan for accelerated, sustainable results. You'll discover how to reduce calories yet still feel satisfied and enjoy nutritious meals throughout the day. How often? You guessed it… every three hours! You'll also learn effective techniques to help curb hunger, exercise to maximize results, and much more!
If you're already a fan of IdealShakes and IdealBars, don't worry — they're an essential part of the plan, and we'll show you how to incorporate them for even more dramatic results!
*No refunds will be issued for this eBook.
The book is so much easier to understand and the recipies are to die for.
Eating Healthy and Loving it.
Great book however would be great if hard copy was available to those who don't use online services regularly.
This is my favorite Shake. I love the hunger factor. My husband tried this shake and loved it too!
Really enjoy that it is at my finger tips (easy access on-line). Great idea and great recipes!
This was an awesome reaource and got me on the right track! I had tried the 21 Day Fix, and it wasn't for me. I've been following this plan for my body, and have lost 1 pound each week.
Love the shakes, bars and the boast. I have struggled to lose weight for years!!! I'm at my heaviest weight ever 350lbs however my journey has begun and with following the Ideal Plan and doing the 15 day challenge I've lost 12lbs. The support system is the best ever!!! I live Kami's meal prep videos and all her exercise videos!!! Kami truly cares and she has helped me so much during my short time beginning my life style changes!!! Love the recipes along with all the shake recipes!!!! I live that all the calories, macros are figured out!!! I have a very long journey to reach my goal weight of 150lbs!!!! Even though I have 200lbs to lose But I'm just making small goals and taking baby steps vs focusing on the number 200lbs!!! I struggle with believing in myself, positive self esteem however following the Ideal Plan and writing down all my whys has helped me to begin to have more self esteem ever day I look in the mirror and tell myself YOU CAN DO THIS I'm so pleased to have this Ideal Plan to follow and I'm so pleased with all the products best weight loss program I've ever tried!!!
i really was surprised at how good the shakes were.i especially loved the chocolate.the vanilla was great also.i would add a banana to it or strawberries.my favorite snack was cottage cheese.i know i didnt have to have that but i like it.i also drank v8 for some of my vegetables.im not a fan of salads to much so i ate greenbeans,spinach,broccolli.i gotprettygood at the diet.my husban lost more than i did.thanks for the great sales you puton occaisionally.


With a high luminous intensity of 2100 lumens and a visibility of 270 ° , this powerful 3-LED front bicycle lamp allows the rider to see and be seen by everyone. 5 constant lighting modes are available to make the best choice in the city or on the unlit road. The on / off button, located on the back, allows you to select the desired mode. And a run time of between 2 and 16 hours .
Easy to use, the lighting does not require the use of batteries and is rechargeable by USB . A USB cable is also provided with the light. It takes 8 hours for a full charge.
The Oxford Ultratorch 2K lamp is mounted on a 25.4 or 31.8 mm diameter hanger using a clamp that opens in 2. If necessary, it is quickly detachable from its support. This front light is waterproof (IPX4). Black in color and with a small size of 45 x 45 x 120 mm, it is discreet and compact. It is thus possible to add other accessories on the handlebar.


The Colts lost several close games but the game in London, against the Jaguars and both contests against the Texans will haunt the Colts players for a long time.
Ah…. There just isn't enough time to make so many wishes involving so many teams so perhaps wishes of peacuful, joyful, healthy and wealthy Christmas will be better suited on this somewhat sad Christmas Eve.
Everyone needs to step away a bit or by two bits. The numbers backing up Luck's great 2016 season have been there before the demolition of the Jets occurred last Monday.
Somehow, that huge score escalated amount of articles about Andrew Luck and how good he is. I knew that already but football is a team sport and the wins are earned in unity like Dwayne Allen and T.Y. Hilton showed on Monday too.
Now, this is a big one for any Football Wishing Fairy and the fairies like to get confused as the season has shown already but let's make it clear, the Colts have much better chances of creating some buzz and chaos than the Texans should they reach the playoffs, so no random fumbles, tipped passes or making Brock Osweiler look like young God himself.
Houston's defense is really solid with a decent group of ball hawking corner backs, especially with A.J. Bouye having a solid season so the Fairy shouldn't whisper some crazy reads to Luck as the game evolves. Just let him take what they give and quietly let's move to 7-6 record with another appearance above 100 in PR for Luck. If he is solid there'll be plenty of balls to make plays for those who want it; Donte Moncrief is a beast in Red Zone. 6 targets 6TD.
Despite missing Luck and losing the game 7-28 it wasn't as ugly as the score looks really, the problem though is that the Colts are not built for Super Bowl run and reaching the play offs might be too much of an ask.
Anyway, I think given the fact that December is upon us all I can wish for the Colts is to get wins and remain healthy.
I've still got the flashbacks of last season meet up between these two teams and what embarrassing embarrassment it was.
The football fairy should spare the Jets fans from Fitzpatrick's meltdown but the Fairy should also ensure that the justice is served and the Colts win. Not sure why I see it as a justice but hey, I do and I want the Colts to get that win for the last season.
Other than that, I really haven't got much more for this Monday night match up that will screw up my Tuesday a bit. Hey!
Indianapolis Colts Football Wishing Fairy – #10 is a round number.
Well. Football Fairy. If you ever cared for our troubles now it is time to show it off. The final stretch of 7 games that some hope will see the Colts smashing into play offs.
This week we host the Titans (whom we already beat once) and on short notice we see the Steelers coming over for some turkey Thursday night. First the Titans, who are on a hot streak and who gave Aaron Rodgers whopping by gaining 353 yards and scoring 35 points… in the first half.
Anyways, both teams need that win badly and for both teams a loss could well mean the end of the 2016 campaign (although in AFC South sometimes there's no end to this misery of qualifying into playoffs).
Main task here for the Colts is to slow down the ground attack, get ours going and see what hides downfield.
It's easier said than done but we beat that team once already without our no 2 and 3 receivers and Luck's sheet against Tennessee is still clear so a bit of help from the Fairyland could help us turn the advantage to our side.
Regardless, a game that looked on paper in August like a Sunday bore, now looks like all guns firing type of smash out football.
Time will tell who shouts louder and whose actions are heard and seen better. Go Colts!
Indianapolis Colts Football Wishing Fairy – #9 Bye Week .
No, there's not going to be a Super Bowl team out of this lot as there's too little talent out there but perhaps a wildcard win team could make our lives a bit easier to digest but what is suppoosed to happen after the dust of the season settles…?
Still… At this moment I see a 6-3 team that needs a full 60 minutes of engagement into a game. The next few weeks will verify my view on the situation.
In the meantime, let's enjoy a peaceful bye.
Hey there Football Wishing Fairy. You are probably aware that Andrew Luck had a rather poor outing against the Chiefs which led them to begin spanked at home and first time this season the Colts offense failed to reach 20 points.
This week it'd be reassuring to see Luck from beginning of the season, striking at high rate and making smart decisions.
Hilton and his injuries- don't push it once the game is out of the reach. Allen- don't make his ankles worse (Doyle is great this season but I miss Fleener).
Another wish for this week- since the right side of o-line is injured and it's all down to back ups (although starters play like back ups at time) to protect Luck, please some good vibes there.
Defensively, let the young guys play hard and let them learn a lot, don't let them to ruin the effort with flags, same goes for the o-line. Don't pick up more injuries and see how much lack of Mike Adams affects the secondary.
Otherwise, let the guys enjoy the iconic Lambeau as much as you can as they won't see it for a while once they'll lose a game there in a spectular fashion.
Since I have realised that the Football Wishing Fairy hadn't been taking me seriously I can direct my wishes and claims into a space in front of me hoping for them to reach the right recipient that would help the Colts in their quest for another victory.
Yes, many might get excited over last week's win but in the end it was against the Titans that weren't playing well. The defence had some nice highlights, Luck was being careful and accurate and I think in the game against the Chiefs it would be good to get more of the same.
Football Wishing Fairy would deal with Kansas City pass rush and made the Chiefs secondary sleepy but one knows that Fairies are lazy and they don't like to listen to anyone's wishes.
Donte Moncrief will hopefully make a wonderful return providing Luck with a big body target and driving some attention from Hilton.
On the defence it is going to be a struggle covering Kelce but one man can't do it all so hopefully other threats will be eliminated for the Colts that should play lights out offensive charge hoping to be one more drive and a score above the Chiefs.
The biggest unknown will come from the coaching den where mysterious decisions will be made but that is fully fairy's responsibility. So go Colts!
I'm not really sure what I meant whilst I was playing about with this Madden screenshot but hey. You only live once and it applies to Football Wishing Fairies too.
And since it appears that our Fairy is oblivious to the contents of this blog it is more than fair to assume that this fairy is dead.
Whoever there is listening to me please make sure Andrew Luck survives another match up without obtaining any injuries.
I think it's a reasonable wish given the fact that Dwayne Allen, Donte Moncrief, Philip Dorsett and Jack Mewhort are out versus Titans.
I mean I hope Luck won't be trying to force passes into too tight gaps, or run on 3rd and 33 trying to get a first down, damaging his organ on the way.
I think they should just gracefully fold and rethink everything they know about and start preparing for a long winter full of disappointments as there's obviously some dysfunctional thinking within the organisation, with the injuries, lack of being prepared, execution and pretty much all the basic matters than one should have done automatically.
I don't know really. It's all frustratring but I hope at least Vinnie will give us something to cheer about by beating the NFL record he is so close to.
So there Fairy. Screw you and your agents!
This picture is right on time as the Colts get their job done mainly using Vinatieri's leg that kicks the balls through the posts and the dude seems to be getting better and better. He's few away from the NFL record. I hope he makes it, so Football Wishing Fairy… Don't interfere there, please.
Get involved with our defense. Tip some balls towards their hands, open a gap for a nasty sack or tackle for a loss at least but please, Football Wishing Fairy, leave Colts special teams alone they usually figure stuff out.
You can get involved with Moncrief's health Fairy, as Andrew needs a big bodied target at times when TY Hilton really becomes the ghost of himself. Yeah, Fairy… Get some health potions Donte's way so he's back quickly.
As for Sunday's conquest… Well it is hard to say, but hopefully Ty- Luck connection will be there as in the past so the offense keeps chugging along.
Frank Gore hopefully adds some serious yardage to his resume this week when we are in the great situation of bleeding the clock… Hopefully.
So there mix some magic dust in there Football Wishing Fairy and please, leave the special teams alone this week!


text:
Airbus has begun assembling the first A350 XWB
Norwegian suspends long-haul flights and lays off another 2.100 employees.
By Sorin Rusi	 On NEVER APR , NEVER
The newest project, in the field of civil aircraft, is the Airbus brand A350 XWB - a family of twin-engine passenger cars, ultramodern, two-color (widebody), long courier, in the design phase. The final assembly of the first A350 XWB aircraft is currently taking place on the new factory line in Toulouse.
This structure of the first A350 XWB aircraft will be used for static structural tests, a process by which all new aircraft pass the road to the certification process. The first flight for A350 XWB, under the name MSN1, will take place this summer.
The central part of the fuselage was delivered with the help of the aircraft Airbus Beluga. It was transported from St Nazaire, France, on the 4 April. The front part was delivered, also from St. Nazaire, on 23 December 2011. The rear parts of the fuselage will be delivered from Hamburg, Germany, and will take place in the coming weeks. The wings will be delivered from Broughton, UK.
A350 XWB aircraft fuselage it consists, as you read above, of three main sections - front, center and stern (as in ships). These will be joined together at the main assembly line, station 50. After this step, the fuselage is transferred to station 40 where the wings and tail will be joined. And here's how a new airplane model takes shape. If all goes well, the tests will be able to start even earlier than the previously set date.
In February, Airbus tested the Rolls-Royce Trent XWB engine, the model that will equip A350 XWB aircraft. The engine was mounted on an Airbus A380 and the performance and efficiency of fuel consumption in the air were tested for approximately 5 hours. Everything went smoothly.
53% of the A350 XWB aircraft structure is made of composite materials, titanium and advanced aluminum alloys. To these we add Carbon Fiber Reinforced Plastic (CFRP) and get a fuselage easy to maintain and with a very good weight / fuel consumption ratio.
At the moment, The A350XWB family is in the development phase of three models:
- The A350-800 is the smallest model. It has a range of 15.400 km with 270 passengers in a cabin with 3 classes. He will enter service in 2014.
- The A350-900 is the average model. It has a range of 15.000 km with 314 passengers. He will enter service in 2013.
- The A350-1000 is the high capacity model. It has a range of 14.800 km with 350 passengers. It will be introduced in 2015.
So far, over 560 of A350XWB aircraft have been ordered.
A350 XWBA350-1000A350-800A350-900
Airbus sold 131 aircraft in the first quarter of 2012
Boeing 787 Dreamliner has arrived in Turkey
The first A350 XWB wing arrived in Toulouse NOTHING years ago
[…] S1.parentNode.insertBefore (s, s1); }) (); Airbus has begun testing components and assembling the first A350 XWB aircraft. The front fuselage arrived at the factory in Toulouse, where the installation was started […]
UPDATE January 14, 2021: List of European countries with travel restrictions for Romania 263k views
UPDATE December 28: List of European countries where you can travel without restrictions 34k views
Norwegian suspends long-haul flights and lays off another 2.100 employees. January 15 2021

redpajama_set_name: RedPajamaCommonCrawl


Dehydration of Mazafati Rutab is a method to prevent its spoilage. Dehydration is necessary for Mazafati Rutab because it contains too much moisture. If the moisture content of Mazafati Rutab is decreased properly, it need not be stored under refrigeration. The present study was carried out in an attempt to decrease the moisture content in order to increase the shelf life of Mazafati dates. Samples were dehydrated in a drying room at different drying times and 50-55 oC. The moisture content and quality characteristics of Mazafati dates such as acidity and sensory evaluation (texture, flavour and overall acceptability) were determined at 3-hour intervals and also drying curve of the fruit was drawn. Relative humidity in the drying room was 10-15%. During the drying process, the acidity content gradually increased due to the activity of microorganisms but organoleptic properties decreased especially affer 12 hours of drying time and at moisture levels less than 22%. Finally, drying time of 9-12 hours and acceptable moisture content of 22% were recommended. Dates with over 22% moisture levels are an easy target for microbial attack but the desirable quality of the fruit decreases at moisture levels below 22%.


text:
Hillsborough NJ EMS
TOURS & DEMOS
CPR & FIRST AID >
HANDS ONLY CPR
CPR FACTS
EMS/RESCUE CLASSES
Township's EMS and fire company dealings
could spell disaster for residents
HILLSBOROUGH: Township's EMS and fire company dealings could spell disaster for residents
centraljersey.com
On September 26, the township committee announced that plans were "in the works" to establish a new volunteer EMS organization. No specific details were given and information was not yet available to determine if the recently-contracted RWJUH ambulance services had performed per their contract.
Later last week, those details became clear when minutes of a closed September 12 fire commission meeting emerged with OEM Director John Sheridan in attendance with a few former EMTs suggesting an organization which starts out as volunteers doing fire rehab, then eases into other EMS calls with an "ultimate goal" of 24/7 coverage by taxpayer-paid EMTs and administrators.
I do not understand how just months after signing an agreement with RWJUH for presumably zero cost EMS services and telling the public that this would save taxpayers dollars, the township is now sowing the seeds for a paid EMS force that would be managed directly out of the township government, complete with management salaries, health benefits, pensions and liability. This is exactly what the RWJUH consultant's report said was the most expensive option.
Any volunteer force still has to be supported with ambulances, equipment, a headquarters, ongoing training, etc. The Fire Department is already having trouble attracting their own volunteers and funding vehicle repairs, as indicated at their September meeting.
So, after the township contracted with RWJUH for ambulance service and fire rehab without consideration for rescue extrication, now there is a proposal to start a new volunteer force for rehab and a contract had to be signed for the fire department to do extrications. At what cost to taxpayers? If the township is just shifting the tax burden from the municipal budget to the fire commission budget, then this was all just a political stunt.
The icing on the cake was a fire commission "election" last Thursday night which was not properly advertised, was held on a Thursday night, and requested $1.65M of new expenditures, including rescue items. No ID at all was required to vote in this election that the township only announced a half hour before the election started.
The municipal government has been gambling with our residents' health and safety. They removed a 60-year community-based non-profit EMS organization and replaced it with a hospital-based ambulance service, which is motivated by profit. The level of performance statistics that are called for in the RWJUH contract are still not being reported to the public and what is reported does not reconcile with county dispatch. If RWJUH is neither performing adequately nor saving taxpayers money, then the township committee needs to re-instate HEMS, period. The hurricanes, floods, and fast-moving fires that we've seen elsewhere in the country in the last few months should be a warning that we need a hometown-based, community-minded rescue squad. Our residents should not be victims of township committee members' special interests, for-profit health care, tax-burden shifting, or just plain poor performance. In emergencies, seconds and minutes matter.
Meryl Bisberg
Suicide is Preventable
Copyright © 2014-2018 Hillsborough Rescue Squad. All Rights Reserved. Privacy Policy


text:
<?php

use yii\db\Migration;

/**
 * Handles the creation for table `tazrum.topic`.
 */
class m160430_151820_create_tazrum_topic extends Migration
{
    /**
     * @inheritdoc
     */
    public function up()
    {
        $this->createTable('{{tazrum}}.{{%topic}}', [
            'id' => $this->primaryKey(),
            'subforum_id' => $this->integer()->comment('The subforum this topic is in, null is for private topics.'),
            'title' => $this->string(128)->notNull(),
            'user_id' => $this->integer()->notNull()->comment('The auth of the topic.'),
            'sticky' => $this->boolean()->notNull()->defaultValue(false)->comment('Whether the topic should stick to the top of the subforum listing.'),
            'locked' => $this->boolean()->notNull()->defaultValue(false)->comment('Whether people are barred from posting to this topic or not.'),
            'created_on' => $this->dateTime()->notNull(),
            'last_post_id' => $this->integer()->comment('That most recent post in this topic.'),
            'last_post_user_id' => $this->integer()->comment('The author of the most recent post in this topic.'),
            'last_post_on' => $this->dateTime()->comment('The datetime of the most recent post in this topic.'),
        ]);

        $this->createIndex('subforum_id', '{{tazrum}}.{{%topic}}', 'subforum_id');
        $this->createIndex('user_id', '{{tazrum}}.{{%topic}}', 'user_id');
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    {
        $this->dropForeignKey('fk_topic_subforum', '{{tazrum}}.{{%subforum}}');

        $this->dropForeignKey('fk_last_post_user_topic', '{{tazrum}}.{{%topic}}');
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        $this->dropIndex('last_post_on', '{{tazrum}}.{{%topic}}');
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        $this->dropIndex('subforum_id', '{{tazrum}}.{{%topic}}');

        $this->dropTable('{{tazrum}}.{{%topic}}');
    }
}


text:
Amy Wilson
General Counsel and Corporate Secretary, Dow Inc.
Amy Wilson became General Counsel of Dow in 2018. She joined the company in 2000, providing legal counsel to Purchasing and Human Resources, and spent time with Dow's Europe operations in Horgen, Switzerland and as Director of the Office of the Corporate Secretary, among other roles.
A strong advocate for inclusion and diversity, Amy is the executive sponsor for GLAD, Dow's lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, queer, and allies' employee resource group, and was named a Top 50 Ally Executive by OUTstanding in 2020 and 2021. Additionally, Amy serves on the Board of Directors for the U. S. Chamber of Commerce and MidMichigan Health and the Board of Trustees for the Charles J. Strosacker Foundation. She is also a member of the Society for Corporate Governance.
As part of LCLD's Leaders at the Front initiative, Amy created a Leader's Pledge detailing her personal and organizational commitment to diversity, equity, and inclusion. Read Amy's pledge here.
At Dow, inclusion, diversity, and equity defines the company, embodies its values, and guides its strategy. It allows every employee to contribute and feel valued. It encourages everyone to bring their whole selves to work each day for a more fulfilling career. Learn more about Dow's commitments at the intersection of science and sustainability, culture and accountability in our Environmental, Social and Governance report: INtersections.
Member: Amy Wilson
Diversity Professional: Joslyn Chulski
Communications: Amy Ahlich


text:
Cincinnati's thunderstorm losses to erode Skyline Re cat bond buffer
Catastrophe losses suffered by primary insurer The Cincinnati Insurance Companies (Cincinnati) during the first-quarter of 2017 have now reached approximately $106 million (pretax), according to the insurer, which will have eroded some of the buffering layers and retention beneath its $180 million Skyline Re Ltd. (Series 2017-1) private cat bond.
Cincinnati reported $106 million of pretax catastrophe losses due to a number of outbreaks of severe thunderstorms and convective weather in the first-quarter of the year, which it expects to add approximately 9.2% to its combined ratio for the quarter.
The insurers most recent private cat bond issue, the $180 million Skyline Re 2017-1 which it sponsored in January, provides it with $80 million of aggregate severe or convective thunderstorm collateralized reinsurance protection through a dual-section Class 2 tranche of notes.
With the 2017 convective storm season having seen numerous outbreaks, with damage from large hail, tornadoes and strong winds, its only natural to expect Cincinnati to have suffered losses due to the aggressive start to the year for severe storm losses. It now appears that the losses the insurer has suffered will have removed some of the protection buffer that sits beneath its private cat bond reinsurance cover, effectively increasing the risk to investors through the rest of the storm season.
The $80 million Class 2 tranche of the Skyline Re cat bond, that provides the severe convective storm coverage, features an aggregate attachment point at $190 million of losses to Cincinnati, but with a $8 million per event deductible that also needs to be factored in.
Cincinnati said that of the $106 million of severe storm losses suffered so far, around $100 million comes from three separate events that occurred between February 28th and March 22nd 2017, in Midwest or Southern states.
Just over half of the losses suffered were from Cincinnati's commercial lines insurance book, with the remainder affecting its personal lines book.
It's hard to forecast the precise impact to the aggregate retention that sits beneath the Skyline Re 2017-1 catastrophe bond, as we do not know the individual storm loss totals or the exact number of storm outbreaks included. However it seems likely that a decent chunk of the $190 million layer sitting beneath the Skyline Re Class 2 notes attachment point will have been eroded during Q1 2017.
With severe thunderstorm outbreaks having continued through the start of the second-quarter it is likely that Cincinnati will face further erosion of this buffer beneath the private cat bond investors across the rest of the season. Which of course is exactly the way the coverage has been designed and why investors in these notes receive a coupon of 12% for holding this risk for the insurer.
So, effectively the attachment point for the Class 2 Skyline Re 2017-1 cat bond notes will likely have been reduced somewhat, for the severe thunderstorm section of coverage, as the catastrophe losses aggregate upwards for the insurer.
It will be interesting to see whether there is any change to the cat bond's pricing in the secondary market as a result.
Join Artemis in Singapore on July 13th 2017 for ILS Asia
Tagged as: Cat bond, Catastrophe bond, private cat bond, Skyline Re Ltd., Skyline Re Ltd. (Series 2017-1)
« Older article New members expected for World Bank Pacific parametric insurance facility


This healthy honey garlic chicken recipe takes no time to throw together using your crock-pot or slow cooker. Just five ingredients and kid-friendly! Say hellooo to quick and easy dinners and SEE YA to hours upon hours in the kitchen!
raise your hand if you're forever thankful for the inventor of the crock-pot!? i knew a slow cooker was a must-have on our wedding registry, but i didn't realize just HOW much i needed it until lately. it's seriously been such a life saver.
our crock-pot had been sitting in our cabinet since we moved in in june and i felt guilty for not using it yet… but let's just say I was waiting for the perfect recipe to kick-off with 😉 i definitely chose right because this healthy honey garlic chicken is on another level.
dinner was always a special time for my family growing up, so sitting down to a hot meal just seems cozy to me. with the weather cooling down, hot dinners are even more of a priority because yo girl is ALWAYS cold.
michael makes fun of me because i walk around the apartment with a blanket permanently attached to my body. he asks me why I don't "just get a snuggie" but… I think we all know why. ha!
for this easy dinner recipe, i served the chicken over rice with some roasted veggies. i prepped the rice the night before by using our crock-pot, too! i highly recommend it. i keep big batches of it in our fridge because we eat brown rice with almost every meal. if you'd like me to teach you how, just message me on the contact form and i'll send the instructions your way! it's SO simple.
this healthy honey garlic chicken took NO time to throw together and turned out exactly how i wanted — not overly powerful, and with lots of sauce left to pour on top!
it's been really wonderful having left-overs around the house. i've used it on salads, loaded sandwiches and even thrown it in my soups! there are so many ways to use left-over chicken.
Perfect recipe for the middle of the week! I love letting the slow cooker do all the work. Sounds so yummy!
Looks awesome! Looking forward to trying it.
Just bookmarked this to cook later this week! Looks amazing and easy to cook.
Oh yummy. I love new crock pot recipes. Definitely saving for later!!
Can you use frozen chicken breasts or do they need to be thawed?
I've never tried it with frozen chicken breasts, but if you've made frozen chicken in your crockpot before and it's worked then i'm sure it would!


SOUTH BEND - Ollie Mae Grayson, 82, died Saturday in St. Joseph Care Center-West. Survivors include a daughter, Kathleen Grayson-Lowery of South Bend; a sister, Gladys E. Bigham of South Bend; and a brother, Lee Moorman Weatherspoon of Vandalia. Services will be at 11 a.m. Wednesday in Olivet A.M.E. Church, where friends may call one hour before services. Alford's Mortuary is in charge of arrangements.


My favourite truck, the civilian Dodge Power Wagon, was a thinly disguised military vehicle that rose from the heavy-duty 3/4-ton and one-ton trucks of the Second World War. The first generation was produced from 1946 until the mid-1960s. These trucks were massively overbuilt. When they were more common, it was not unusual to see one customized and festooned with all kinds of equipment such as massive plows, winches or drill rigs that would break the axles of most modern pickup trucks.
A few weeks ago, a wonderful 1966 Power Wagon arrived at my facility. I was delighted because, as much as I love these trucks, this is the first one that had ever arrived here to be worked on. Funnily enough, while it is the first Power Wagon through my shop doors, it is so familiar because of all the Dodge M 37 military pickups and other Second World War Dodges I have owned and worked on. It was rather like an old friend had arrived.
Its condition was excellent although unrestored and, if it was mine, I would keep the old, weathered yellow paint and blacked-out frame and just keep driving it.
When I asked my general manager what the truck was in for, he told me the job was strictly utilitarian and that the owner wanted a modern powerplant installed and a newer transmission with overdrive for the occasional time the truck would be on the road. The frame was to be cleaned, prepped and repainted with a special black anti-oxidizing paint as well.
It turns out this old truck's working life is not over. It is being prepared to clear land and ready a building site for the owner's new home. To be better prepared for this, he felt a modern diesel engine might be in order.
I have to admit some personal reluctance here because the flathead six-cylinder that was in the old beast was one of the best-working motors ever built. In some of its incarnations, it was known as the Chrysler Industrial engine. This family of motors powered cars and trucks from the 1930s right through to the '70s, when they could still be found in tow motors, Zambonis and other heavy equipment.
The engine chosen to replace the original is a Cummins QSB 4.5. This is not a street diesel designed to push a chrome-bedecked urban powder-puff pickup. It is a very serious working motor designed to power heavy agricultural equipment. It would be as happy harvesting thousands of Prairie acres or even sitting at the bottom of a mineshaft pumping out water for a couple of decades.
The installation of this engine and a rebuilt overdrive transmission has caused some trepidation here as they are far from drop-in. The re-engineering of the truck is daunting for the simple reason that we don't want to change its outward appearance or modify it beyond the point where a restoration back to the original in the future would be next to impossible. That said, among the things we have to do is re-engineer the steering system, since the new engine will occupy the area where the old steering box was located. We also have to radically alter the whole front end, so there will be a number of factors that come into play in creating a new front suspension and steering gear.
The unit that puts power to the front axle and PTO is found on a frame crossmember and is far too close to the new transmission, so we have to create a heavy-duty load-bearing crossmember and move the whole assembly backward about 38 centimetres or so. This will mean we have to make a new front driveshaft as well.
The injection pump on the engine is in the wrong place and the truck's frame cannot accommodate it at its point of attachment, so we will have to work with engineers at Cummins to relocate that unit.
We have to move the truck's firewall backward. This worries me as the Power Wagon doesn't have a lot of legroom to start with. The truck will be no good if the owner can't get in and out of it and operate the foot pedals easily — especially in a working situation — so we are going to have to be very clever in solving this problem.
As the project progresses, there will be many challenges both large and small that crop up. Cooling is always an issue when blending old and new technologies.
The electrical system in the Power Wagon will have to replaced with a brand new harness and we will have to install all the computers and high-tech required gadgets to run the turbocharged fuel-injected Cummins diesel.
When it is finished, it should be a magnificent truck capable of another 50 years of heavy work and, if we have done our jobs properly, it will look no different than when it first poked its nose into the shop.


text:
Daily Frameworks for 14 January 2023
stevebosserman Daily Frameworks January 14, 2023 January 13, 2023 3 Minutes
Jalál, 15 Sharaf (Honor), 179 B.E
Contemplating the Person of the Master, we find ourselves wonderstruck by the all-compassing authority that accompanied His inexhaustible patience and understanding, by the keenness of His wisdom in every setting, by the infinite tenderness of His being, and by His limitless love that can be felt by every unshuttered soul. But every prompting to pay homage to His matchless qualities is restrained by the recollection that never did He seek praise or worldly recognition. And so we feel compelled to testify: Beloved of all our hearts, 'Abdu'l-Bahá, Your all was servitude—a servitude "complete, pure and real, firmly established, enduring, obvious, explicitly revealed and subject to no interpretation whatever". We reserve what words remain for a pledge of fidelity to You, for our vow to uphold the Covenant that You "proclaimed, championed and vindicated", for our wholehearted expression of loyalty to Your timeless guidance and expositions, to Your fervent entreaties and exhortations. This same pledge is manifested in the steadfast, strenuous exertions of the Bahá'í world to fulfil the mission entrusted to it at this time. Seeing this community striving to live by Your example summons up for us these words of Yours:
"O friends! Praise be to God that the banner of Divine Unity hath been hoisted in every land, and the melody of the Abhá Kingdom hath been raised on every side. The holy Seraph of the Concourse on high is raising the cry of "Yá Bahá'u'l-Abhá!" in the midmost heart of the world, and the power of the Word of God is breathing true life into the body of existence." 1
"Wherefore, O ye faithful friends, it behoveth you all to join 'Abdu'l-Bahá in self-sacrifice and in service to the Cause of God and thraldom to His divine Threshold. If ye be aided to attain unto such a supreme bounty, the whole world shall erelong be made the recipient of the effulgent splendours of God, and the longed-for oneness of humanity shall be revealed in the utmost beauty and charm in the midmost heart of the world. This is the dearest wish of 'Abdu'l-Bahá! This is the greatest yearning of them that are faithful! The Glory of Glories rest upon you." 2 3 4
Paris Talks
The great unselfish love for humanity is bounded by none of these imperfect, semi-selfish bonds; this is the one perfect love, possible to all mankind, and can only be achieved by the power of the Divine Spirit. No worldly power can accomplish the universal love.
Let all be united in this Divine power of love! Let all strive to grow in the light of the Sun of Truth, and reflecting this luminous love on all men, may their hearts become so united that they may dwell evermore in the radiance of the limitless love. 5
The Kitáb-i-Íqán: The Book of Certitude
The other is the station of distinction, and pertaineth to the world of creation and to the limitations thereof. In this respect, each Manifestation of God hath a distinct individuality, a definitely prescribed mission, a predestined Revelation, and specially designated limitations. Each one of them is known by a different name, is characterized by a special attribute, fulfills a definite Mission, and is entrusted with a particular Revelation. 6
'Abdu'l-Bahá. Light of the World: Selected Tablets of 'Abdu'l-Bahá. 1st ed. Haifa: Bahá'í World Center, 2021. https://www.bahai.org/library/authoritative-texts/abdul-baha/light-of-the-world/5#249947283 ↩
Universal House of Justice. "On the Occasion of the Centenary Commemoration of the Ascension of 'Abdu'l-Bahá." Bahá'í Reference Library, November 27, 2021. https://www.bahai.org/library/authoritative-texts/the-universal-house-of-justice/messages/20211127_001/1#422353090. ↩
'Abdu'l-Bahá. Paris Talks: Addresses given by ʻAbdu'l-Bahá in Paris in 1911-1912. 11th British Ed. 1912. Reprint, London, England: Bahá'í Publishing Trust, 1972, 73–74. https://www.bahai.org/library/authoritative-texts/abdul-baha/paris-talks/2#220808810. ↩
Bahá'u'lláh. The Kitáb-i-Íqán: The Book of Certitude. Translated by Shoghi Effendi. 1st pocket-size Ed. 1950. Reprint, Wilmette, Ill: Baháʾí Publishing Trust, 1983, 176.
. https://www.bahai.org/library/authoritative-texts/bahaullah/kitab-i-iqan/7#024442778 ↩
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One Resurrection, One Body
By Joseph Hinman (Metacrock) - September 23, 2019
There are actually those who think God gives us a totally separate body as a resurrection body. Not to put anyone down but that strikes me as a bizarre idea. I've never heard it before,the vast majority of Christians have been understanding it as a renovation or renewal of the old body that dies. In discussion on the comment section of this blog Pixie asserts: "The early Christians believed Jesus was resurrected in a new body. That is what Daniel describes. That is what Paul saw. Mark is neutral on it. It is only by the time of Matthew and Luke that it changes."
I responded: --there is no evidence of that belief none at all, it contradicts Thomas testimony of placing his fingers in the nail prints:
To which he responds: "Paul wrote what he believed, that Jesus was resurrected in a new body," [1]
I disagree because the clear and dominating image in this regard (Paul's view of resurrection body) is a seed being burred and rising up from the ground in growth.
42 Thus also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption, it is raised in incorruptibility. 43 It is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness, it is raised in power. 44 It is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. 45 Thus also it is written, "The first man, Adam, became a living soul";[j] the last Adam became a life-giving spirit. (1 Cor, 15)
You don't give the seed a totally separate and new plant the plant evolves out of the seed. The image of sowing and reaping evokes germination which is not two separate plants but the evolution of one plant out of one seed. He is likening death and burial to planting and resurrection to harvesting. In the next passage there is language that implies two bodies, (the theory that we get a totally new and operate body) but also there is language that contradicts this:
36 Foolish person! What you sow does not come to life unless it dies. 37 And what you sow is not the body which it will become, but you sow the bare seed, whether perhaps of wheat or of some of the rest. 38 But God gives to it a body just as he wishes, and to each one of the seeds its own body. 39 Not all flesh is the same, but there is one flesh of human beings, and another flesh of animals, and another flesh of birds, and another of fish, 40 and heavenly bodies and earthly bodies. But the glory of the heavenly bodies is of one kind, and the glory of the earthly bodies is of another kind. 41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars, for star differs from star in glory.
"37 And what you sow is not the body which it will become," one could twist that into meaning it's a totally different body. Yet one could make the same statement in speaking of a growth into a new form rather than two separate plants. The Tomato harvested is not the seed that was planted but it 's not a new plant totally separate from the seed. In keeping with this analogy Paul clearly believed the body , at the proper time, would be revitalized not only live again but be of a spiritual quality.
The idea of two separate states leads people to think of two separate bodies one physical and one spiritual. It's the same body made new. That is what Paul says, v 37 says "the body which it will become." The old body will become a new body that is what he says, it will become!
"42 Thus also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption, it is raised in incorruptibility. 43 It is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness, it is raised in power. 44 It is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body."
That wording might lead the unwary to believe he's talking about two separate bodies. It's pretty clear he's talking about two different conditions for the same body.
45 Thus also it is written, "The first man, Adam, became a living soul";[j] the last Adam became a life-giving spirit. 46 But the spiritual is not first, but the natural; then the spiritual. 47 The first man is from the earth, made of earth; the second man is from heaven. 48 As the one who is made of earth, so also are those who are made of earth, and as the heavenly, so also are those who are heavenly. 49 And just as we have borne the image of the one who is made of earth, we will also bear the image of the heavenly.
This might lead one to think of two bodies because he compares two separate men to the two different conditions, but that does not necessitate two bodies. The separate men are the symbol, they symbolize the two separate states of our individual bodies. This this the Catholic understanding. It is also shared by protestant scholars.
The Bible tells us that when Jesus returns to earth, he will physically raise all those who have died, giving them back the bodies they lost at death.These will be the same bodies people had in earthly life—but our resurrection bodies will not die and, for the righteous, they will be transformed into a glorified state, freed from suffering and pain, and enabled to do many of the amazing things Jesus could do with his glorified body (see 1 Cor. 15:35–44, 1 John 3:2)...The Fourth Lateran Council (1215), infallibly defined that at the second coming Jesus "will judge the living and the dead, to render to every person according to his works, both to the reprobate and to the elect. All of them will rise with their own bodies, which they now wear, so as to receive according to their deserts, whether these be good or bad [Rom. 2:6–11]" (constitution 1).[2]
He goes on to say this teaching is confirmed by "...the three infallible professions of faith—the Apostles' Creed, the Nicene Creed, and the Athanasian Creed—and has been solemnly, infallibly taught by ecumenical councils."[3]
The great Anglican scholar professor of divinity at Cambridge, C.F.D. Moule, said that Paul began with an exchange theology exchanging physical for spiritual body but ended with a concept of development, growth into a transformation theory in 2 Cor. 5.[4] René A. López argues that Paul was countering gnomic ideas of the evil o the flesh:
Dulle accurately describes the thought Paul attempted to correct in 1 Corinthians 15. A true incarnation of God demands that He retain His human existence for all eternity. The same applies to human beings. Part of being human is having a human body. To claim that when we are in the eternal state we will discard this aspect of our humanity is to deny the very essence of what it means to be a human. Our flesh is not some evil substance that we are trying to get rid of.
The evidence of the Gospel accounts of Jesus' resurrection and Paul's explanation of the resurrection in 1 Corinthians 15 clearly teach that Jesus rose physically in a glorified body, and so shall all those who place their faith alone in Him. To understand the resurrection in any other way than a physical, glorified, bodily resurrection is to misunderstand and confuse how Jesus can guarantee eternal salvation and victory over sin (1 Cor. 15:17–20; cf. Rom. 6:4–5). Thus the nature of Jesus and the believer's resurrection body is composed of a glorified body, a body no longer controlled by all that characterizes this fallen world.[5]
The idea of the soul being put into a different body clunks with the sound of falsehood. The Hebrew View of personhood was the tripartite notion body, soul, and spirit. The body is an integral part of that identify. There is no reason to think Paul went back on that. Even the most liberal figures such as Schweitzer and Moule didn't argue for two different bodies but two different conditions for the same body. As Lopez tells us "Many wrongly interpret the words "spiritual body" to mean an "immaterial" body (i.e., composed of "spirit") or a body composed of a semi-spiritual "light substance."[6]
Paul's notion was Hebrew not Greek. The Greeks saw the body as a house the spirit was the dweller in the house. The Hebrew thought iterated all three body,soul,and spirit as equally important.
A true incarnation of God demands that He retain His human existence for all eternity. The same applies to human beings. Part of being human is having a human body. To claim that when we are in the eternal state we will discard this aspect of our humanity is to deny the very essence of what it means to be a human. Our flesh is not some evil substance that we are trying to get rid of. This idea is rooted in Platonic dualism which sees the physical realm as inferior to the spiritual, incorporeal realm.[7]
[1] "The Resurrection as Apology and as Doctrine." Cadre Comments, (sept15.2019)
https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=6363362&postID=4366235878769344310&isPopup=true
https://www.catholic.com/tract/resurrection-of-the-body
This included this official Catholic stamp of approval:
NIHIL OBSTAT: I have concluded that the materials presented in this work are free of doctrinal or moral errors. Bernadeane Carr, STL, Censor Librorum, August 10, 200 IMPRIMATUR: In accord with 1983 CIC 827permission to publish this work is hereby granted Robert H. Brom, Bishop of San Diego, August 10, 2004
https://brill.com/view/book/edcoll/9789004316690/B9789004316690_005.xml?crawler=true
Andrew W. Pitts is the Chair of the Biblical Studies Department and Assistant Professor of Biblical Studies and Christian Ministries at ACU. He taught at seminaries and universities across the continent before taking this appointment. He has published peer-reviewed articles in JBL, CBR, JGRChJ, and Religions. He serves as the editor of the Brill Exegetical Commentary and is the co-author of The Fundamentals of New Testament Textual Criticism (Eerdmans, March, 2015). He is also the co-editor of three recently released books on Early Christianity: Christian Origins and Hellenistic Judaism (Brill,
[5] René A. López
http://javathescript.com/documents/TheNatureOfBodyOfBelievers.Lopezpdf.pdf
Dr. René A. López is the founder of Scripture Unlocked Ministries. He writes and speaks widely, teaching about Jesus' physical resurrection as the basis for the Christian faith and salvation. He served as an Adjunct Professor at Trinity International University where he taught Old and New Testament Bible courses. Currently he is teaching in three theological institutions: Liberty Baptist Theological Seminary, Criswell College, and abroad in external studies at Dallas Theological Seminary. He has been involved in various church plants and is the Pastor of Iglesia Bíblica Nuestra Fe.
[6] Ibid
[7]Jason Dulle,quoted iun Lopez. originally, Jason Dullem, "Heavenly or Earthly Bodies?" Institute for Biblical Studies (www.onenesspentecostal.com/bodiesheaven.htm [accessed February 2, 2012]).
The Pixie said…
Joe: Paul's notion was Hebrew not Greek.
Indeed it was, and more specifically that of a Pharisee.
The Pharisees believed that once the Jews were sufficiently observant of the laws, God would send a messiah, a man, a new King of the Jews and therefore a descendant of David, who would overthrow the Romans and usher in a new age of peace. This was the coming Kingdom of God, and is what Christian's anticipate (perhaps without realising it), in the Lord's Prayer, when they say "Your kingdom come on Earth as it is in heaven". This coming of the Kingdom of God would be accompanied by the resurrection of the dead.
Here is Josephus on the Pharisees:
14. But then as to the two other orders at first mentioned, the Pharisees are those who are esteemed most skillful in the exact explication of their laws, and introduce the first sect. These ascribe all to fate [or providence], and to God, and yet allow, that to act what is right, or the contrary, is principally in the power of men, although fate does co-operate in every action. They say that all souls are incorruptible, but that the souls of good men only are removed into other bodies, - but that the souls of bad men are subject to eternal punishment.
- Jewish War 2.8.14
The bit "removed into other bodies" I take to mean that the good are given new bodies, rather than to suggest reincarnation! It was the practice at the time to bury the dead in a tomb until the body had rotted away, and then to put the bones in an ossuary, so clearly the resurrected would need new bodies.
We get a idea about the time between death and resurrection from the Bible, eg:
Psalm 16:10 For You will not leave my soul in Sheol, Nor will You allow Your Holy One to see corruption.
11 You will show me the path of life; In Your presence is fullness of joy; At Your right hand are pleasures forevermore.
So they would hang around in Sheol until the resurrection, when they would come back to life in new bodies shining brightly:
Daniel 2:2 Many of those who sleep in the dust of the ground will awake, these to everlasting life, but the others to disgrace and everlasting [a]contempt. 3 [b]Those who have insight will shine brightly like the brightness of the [c]expanse of heaven, and those who lead the many to righteousness, like the stars forever and ever.
So what Paul believed when he was a Pharisee is that when a person died he became a shade in Sheol, and at the start of the Messianic age, that person, if righteous, would be resurrected in a body that shines like a star.
Then he saw Jesus, in a bright light, shining like a star, and believed Jesus was the Messiah, and the Messianic age had arrived. So now he believed that the general resurrection was just around the corner.
Here is what he wrote of Jesus:
Romans 1:3 concerning His Son, who was born of a [b]descendant of David according to the flesh, 4 who was declared the Son of God with power [c]by the resurrection from the dead, according to the [d]Spirit of holiness, Jesus Christ our Lord,
A man, descended from David, as required for the Messiah. A man adopted (or declared) the son of God, as was the case for any King of the Jews.
Paul was clear that he understood Jesus to be the prototype for the resurrection. It was Jesus first, but then it would happened to everyone.
1 Corinthians 15:20 But now Christ has been raised from the dead, the first fruits of those who are asleep.
Paul is also clear that this will be a change, because he states that those who are alive at the general resurrection will also be changed:
1 Corinthians 15:51 Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— 52 in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.
That makes no sense if people are resurrected in their original bodies. It only makes sense if the resurrected body is different.
Joseph Hinman (Metacrock) said…
your reading on that us strange. I've never heard if it, I called professor from Perkins he had never heard of it either. I can't find anyone who mentions it
from a site on basic idea of Judaism, no mention of second bodies, the closest to it is reincorporation which some Jewish mystics are into.
https://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/jewish-resurrection-of-the-dead/
"The resurrection doctrine is fleshed out in a variety of rabbinic sources. Among the ideas associated with it is the belief that during the messianic age the dead will be brought back to life in Israel. According to the Talmud , all bodies not already in Israel will be rolled through underground tunnels to the holy land. Avoiding this process, which is said to be spiritually painful, is one reason some Jews choose to be buried in Israel."
"According to the Jewish mystical tradition, souls can be reincarnated in different bodies if those souls have not completed their missions on earth. At the time of the resurrection, the individual soul will be split among the various bodies it once inhabited, and the portion of the soul whose mission was completed in a particular body will return to that body."
"The doctrine of resurrection has proved controversial throughout Jewish history. Maimonides wrote in his Mishneh Torah that the idea that the Messiah will revive dead bodies is something that "fools" say. However, when critics charged that he denied resurrection, he penned a scathing essay in which he emphatically argued that he did in fact believe in resurrection."
that doesn't support second body
says nothing about second body,neither passage there supports it
yes Paul believed Jesus rose from the dead, so do I, nothing there about second body,
no second body
You have so far given no bible passage for second body, it all goes back to your assertion about Josephus and what he meant,
so far that is all common knowledge but no link to the passage in Josephus or second body,
I accounted for that change perfectly in my paper the traditional view is change,we change from mortal to immortal but not in second body,the old mortal body becomes immortalized,,
no Bible passage you quoted says anything about another body, you are pasting Josephus on to the Bible. a Major church historian has not heard of this idea it;snot a major idea, I find no scholarly discussion of it.
https://www.patheos.com/blogs/crossexamined/2013/03/10-reasons-the-crucifixion-story-makes-no-sense-2/
O can't believe you take an article like this seriously? it reads like it was written by an adolescent.
yiu so what if they hurted this Jeso guy or whatever his name was,so who cares hu?
Joe: your reading on that us strange. I've never heard if it, I called professor from Perkins he had never heard of it either. I can't find anyone who mentions it
I am going by what is in the Bible and what Josephus said, which are pretty much our only sources on Pharisee beliefs. I may be wrong, but what I am claiming is consistent with those texts:
- the dead continue as shades in Sheol
- a messiah, i.e., new King of the Jews will appear
- God will adopt him as his son, as he did with earlier kings
- the will be the start of the Messianic age, God's kingdom on earth
- it starts with the day of judgement, when the righteous are resurrected and the wicked go to eternal damnation.
- the resurrected will have bodies that shine like stars
What do YOU think the Pharisees believed about the Messiah and the afterlife? Perhaps you could indicates which of these you and Prof. Perkins disagree with, and we can examine the text more thoroughly.
Joe: that doesn't support second body
Try reading it in the context of my argument. It supports my position that Paul, in common with the Pharisees, believed the above.
Joe: says nothing about second body...
Again, you need to read it context.
Joe: so far that is all common knowledge but no link to the passage in Josephus or second body,
I quoted Josephus in the reply! The important bit is: They say that all souls are incorruptible, but that the souls of good men only are removed into other bodies, - but that the souls of bad men are subject to eternal punishment. It very clearly states a second body.
That sentence is pretty much all we have to go on with regards to how the Pharisees believed the resurrection worked, by the way.
Joe: yes Paul believed Jesus rose from the dead, so do I, nothing there about second body,
Paul believed Jesus was the "first fruits", the prototype for the imminent resurrection of all the righteous, born human, but made divine when God adopted him as his son, as he had adopted early kings.
I am sure that is NOT what you believe.
Joe: I accounted for that change perfectly in my paper the traditional view is change,we change from mortal to immortal but not in second body,the old mortal body becomes immortalized,,
What is the difference between one body changing from mortal to immortal, and swapping a mortal body for an immortal one?
I have a broom that is 30 years old. I have had to replace the handle five times, and the head three times, but it is the same broom...
Tim Wood said…
Hello, Joe and Pixie. I'm going to add two thoughts to this discussion. In the accounts of Jesus' appearance after his resurrection, he tells Thomas (according to John 20, echoed in Luke 24)
26 Eight days later, His disciples were once again inside with the doors locked, and Thomas was with them. Jesus came and stood among them and said, "Peace be with you." 27 Then Jesus said to Thomas, "Put your finger here and look at My hands. Reach out your hand and put it into My side.
How could Thomas put his hand in Jesus' side if Jesus body was new? Jesus body still bore some evidence of the wounds in his side and his hands. Jesus' resurrection body wasn't new it was his old body healed/renewed/transformed.
To answer Pixie's question, "the difference between one body changing from mortal to immortal, and swapping a mortal body for an immortal one" is that the old body is still there in some sense. Jesus wounds may have been healed but they were not gone.
If the old body is still there, then the seed falling into the earth metaphors get interesting; especially because the connection with dieing is made explicit in several places (Jn 12:24-25):
24 Very truly I tell you, unless a kernel of wheat falls to the ground and dies, it remains only a single seed. But if it dies, it produces many seeds. 25 Anyone who loves their life will lose it, while anyone who hates their life in this world will keep it for eternal life.
Dieing is used both literally and metaphorically in the New Testament. Without disputing that talk in the new testament was referring to the eschatological future in the new heaven and new earth, an element that is often missed is its occurrence in the present. Paul talks about he suffered due to his physical condition, how he was lashed almost to death. That talk often coincides with his talk of what appears to be mystical experience. Part of what Paul is talking about is what he's experienced now due to mystical experience, to the presence of the Holy Spirit. Paul explicitly argues that that the Christ in them gives life to their mortal bodies (Ro 8:10-11):
But if Christ is in you, then even though your body is subject to death because of sin, the Spirit gives life because of righteousness. 11 And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies because of his Spirit who lives in you.
Paul repeats himself here. First, he talks about the Spirit giving life in general, encompassing liberation, mental renewal, etc. Then, he pulls out the specific example he wants: that the divine will "give life to your mortal bodies." The promise is not of a replacement or (to adapt Pixie's language, the changing out of handles and arms and torsos) but pouring life into their existing bodies.
Px" I am going by what is in the Bible and what Josephus said, which are pretty much our only sources on Pharisee beliefs. I may be wrong, but what I am claiming is consistent with those texts:
No one else interprets those passages that way,
none of that necessitates a separate body. all of it can be understood without that.
In Joe's phrase about other bodies the most likely thing he means is reincarnation,
that context is wrong. you are the only one who ever saw it that way.
you imposed the context out of your misunderstanding,
Josephus is not a Biblical author. he was not a Christian so he did not look at things the way the Biblical authors did. His reincarnation statement (or whatever it is) can't be imposed upon the Bible as a false context.
Tim: "Paul repeats himself here. First, he talks about the Spirit giving life in general, encompassing liberation, mental renewal, etc. Then, he pulls out the specific example he wants: that the divine will "give life to your mortal bodies." The promise is not of a replacement or (to adapt Pixie's language, the changing out of handles and arms and torsos) but pouring life into their existing bodies."
right! thank you
Tim: How could Thomas put his hand in Jesus' side if Jesus body was new? Jesus body still bore some evidence of the wounds in his side and his hands. Jesus' resurrection body wasn't new it was his old body healed/renewed/transformed.
Hi Tim. The point here is what the very early Christians believed, up to around the writing of Mark. Certainly by the time the later gospels were written they believed Jesus was resurrected in his original body.
Tim: Paul repeats himself here. First, he talks about the Spirit giving life in general, encompassing liberation, mental renewal, etc. Then, he pulls out the specific example he wants: that the divine will "give life to your mortal bodies." The promise is not of a replacement or (to adapt Pixie's language, the changing out of handles and arms and torsos) but pouring life into their existing bodies.
I am skipping ahead to here because I broadly agree with what your say, but not in how you then apply it. Yes, Paul talks about the Spirit transforming a person, but I think that is something different. What you are talking about is the transformative effect of the Holy Spirit, changing individuals lives, something Christians claim happens to them today. Clearly that is not the resurrection as they are still alive!
The resurrection was anticipated to be a very specific event, as the last trumpet of the apocalypse sounds.
1 Cor 15:51 Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— 52 in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.
Joe: No one else interprets those passages that way,
So how do they interpret it? I asked you last time about Pharisee beliefs on this issue.
Joe: none of that necessitates a separate body. all of it can be understood without that.
Are you saying they are wrong? You said that last time. Now you seem to be saying they are right, but it does not matter.
Joe: In Joe's phrase about other bodies the most likely thing he means is reincarnation,
Really? So your position is that the Pharisees believed in reincarnation?
Joe: that context is wrong. you are the only one who ever saw it that way.
I think my position is much more likely than the Pharisees believe in reincarnation.
Joe: Josephus is not a Biblical author. he was not a Christian so he did not look at things the way the Biblical authors did. His reincarnation statement (or whatever it is) can't be imposed upon the Bible as a false context.
We are discussing Pharisee beliefs. Are you saying only Biblical authors can be taken as authorities on that? That would be bizarre, given how adversarial they were, so hardly an unbiased source.
PX:So how do they interpret it? I asked you last time about Pharisee beliefs on this issue.
the body that dies is refurbished. That's the only thing I've s seen for the pharisees.
PX:Are you saying they are wrong? You said that last time. Now you seem to be saying they are right, but it does not matter.
I've never said anyone believed we get two bodies.Except for those who believe in reincarnation,I don't know how they rationalize it.
No but Jewish mystics have been know to.
some Jewish mystics have been known to believe in reincarnation O think the major belief even of the phrases is one body gets revitalized and becomes mortal.
Josephine just one guy he's not indicative of pharisees as a whole, he had strong ties to Rome.
that says the one body will be changed,it says nothing about a new body or totally second body,
but we will all be changed—
the body we have will be changed why do we need a second body? the old body is changed that's the one boy model I'm defednig,
the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.
the body you have now will be changed you don't need a second one
Joe: the body that dies is refurbished. That's the only thing I've s seen for the pharisees.
Originally you were saying I was entirely wrong about the Pharisees, and I asked you to comment on this list:
Why are you unable to do that? Are you afraid that if you agree with even one, then you will lose the argument, but you have no grounds to say any of them are wrong? Come on, Joe! Have the courage of your convictions.
Joe: I've never said anyone believed we get two bodies.Except for those who believe in reincarnation,I don't know how they rationalize it.
I am betting you have never met a Pharisee. They disappeared nearly 2000 years ago. So how is this germane?
Joe: No but Jewish mystics have been know to.
Right. And was Josephus talking about Pharisees or Jewish mystics?
Joe: Josephine just one guy he's not indicative of pharisees as a whole, he had strong ties to Rome.
He is about the only source we have on the Pharisees outside the bible.
Joe: that says the one body will be changed,it says nothing about a new body or totally second body,
Sure. Changed like a broom getting a new handle and head. But still the same broom.
Joe: the body we have will be changed why do we need a second body? the old body is changed that's the one boy model I'm defednig,
In what sense is that not a new body? Will people who died in a car crash be resurrected with all the injuries of the crash? Of course not; that would be absurd! Will their bodies be made of the same material? not according to Paul.
Let us suppose God gives all the righteous a car when they get to heaven (I appreciate that is not the case). Do you think he would give them the old car they used to drive back on earth? Sure it is an old model, and got 70,000 on the clock, but give it a bit of a polish, and that will be fine. Perhaps you have not driven for a while, because your eye sight got bad. No problem, God will find that second-hand Honda you drove thirty years ago. He might even repaint it, so you cannot see the rust holes. Perhaps he even patches up the rust. He will renovate that old car, so its... well, not as good as new, but hey, no one said it would be perfect.
Or do you think he will give everyone new cars? Not just brand new, but the latest, top-of-the-range models.
What you (and apparently every Christian you have ever met) claim is that God will be revamping your old car, rather than giving you a brand new one. Is that really how you envisage the afterlife.
https://www.patheos.com/blogs/crossexamined/2013/11/25000-new-testament-manuscripts-big-deal/
The comment about cars was by me, but the last one with the link was not, despite someone signing it as such.
Another point to ponder...
Suppose a man's wife dies and he marries again. In the afterlife, is he married to his first wife or the second or both? The vows are "until death do us part", so is he free to pursue new romantic interests?
In the scenario Joe presents this is a real issue, because your body in heaven will be like the one on Earth, but renovated, so the man will feel the same urges.
In the scenario I present, this is not a issue. The righteous have new bodies that shine like stars, and the concerns of the flesh are irrelevant.
Compare to what Jesus himself said:
Mat 22:23 On that day some Sadducees (who say there is no resurrection) came to Jesus and questioned Him, 24 asking, "Teacher, Moses said, 'If a man dies having no children, his brother as next of kin shall marry his wife, and raise up children for his brother.' 25 Now there were seven brothers with us; and the first married and died, and having no children left his wife to his brother; 26 so also the second, and the third, down to the seventh. 27 Last of all, the woman died. 28 In the resurrection, therefore, whose wife of the seven will she be? For they all had married her."
29 But Jesus answered and said to them, "You are mistaken, not [a]understanding the Scriptures nor the power of God. 30 For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven.
I would say Jesus' answer is aligned with my position, not Joe's.
I did account for it. I said all of those can be accounted for under my model.
I can;t believe you take this drivel seriously this guy does not understand the basics of biblical scholarship. the importance of having so many Ms is it makes running down error more easy and thus enables us to restore the original text.
that does not in anyway imply a second body. It is accounted for by my model, you have no backing your view, you can;t even provide one person who backs you. this is non productive. It's boring Im tired of it,
Joe: I did account for it. I said all of those can be accounted for under my model.
Okay, great. So you agree that Paul believed Jesus was the adopted son of God, and that Paul believed Jesus was the protype for the resurrection, the first fruits, and he believed it would be the same for the righteous, and that the resurrected will have bodies that shine like stars.
Joe: I can;t believe you take this drivel seriously this guy does not understand the basics of biblical scholarship. the importance of having so many Ms is it makes running down error more easy and thus enables us to restore the original text.
You are right not to believe it. I did not post that; someone else posted it and signed it from me.
Joe: that does not in anyway imply a second body. It is accounted for by my model, you have no backing your view, you can;t even provide one person who backs you. ...
It implies people in the afterlife have a very different form to their earthly form. That fits better with a new body than a renovated body.
Joe: ... this is non productive. It's boring Im tired of it,
That the best you have? Your big argument seems to be that modern Christians believe mainstream Christianity. Paul's beliefs were clearly different. The Pharisees clearly had different beliefs.
Are you still claiming Josephus believed in reincarnation, or have you abandoned that nonsense?
sorry you have the burden of proof, you not only prove that you don;t understand scholarly methods of textual criticism but you don;t understand basic logic,
You must prove your case,no scholar agrees with you that is a good reason not to accept your view,
I am at a bit of disadvantage in my commenting since I can only break away from others things a time or two a day.
Pix, I get that you're asserting that the early Christians believed this. But, as far as I can see (apologies if I missed it), you're really "discussing Pharisee beliefs" I'm certainly not going to grant authority only to authors of the texts in the christian and hebrew bibles. They are certainly fair sources for Pharisees believed and should be taken into account when trying to understand the early 1st century CE. BUT, what I'm not seeing (at least here), is the evidence that _early Christians_ believed otherwise about the resurrection itself.
We agree on something!? ;-)
Yes, the resurrection was a future event. And the crucifixtion and resurrection of Christ was the considered beginning of the new age. The authors were living in what Paul (and presumably the others) viewed as essentially an in-between age. The one age had not fully passed away and the new age had not fully begun. A lot of Paul's writing speaks of things like eternal life as both future and available now. I chose the quote I did because it conveys exactly this: the spirit gives life... [and] will also give life to your mortal bodies If Paul was explicitly not talking about life in our mortal bodies now, he would have clarified. He's too much of a lawyer, imho, to not do so.
Joe: sorry you have the burden of proof, you not only prove that you don;t understand scholarly methods of textual criticism but you don;t understand basic logic,
Ah, pulling out all the stops. You insist the burden of proof is on me, then make two entirely unsupported claims, that I "don;t understand scholarly methods of textual criticism" and do not "understand basic logic". The burden of proof is on you to show that that is so.
Joe: You must prove your case,no scholar agrees with you that is a good reason not to accept your view,
Can you find any scholar that agrees with you that Josephus was talking about reincarnation? No? Then get busy "proving" that one.
Tim: Pix, I get that you're asserting that the early Christians believed this. But, as far as I can see (apologies if I missed it), you're really "discussing Pharisee beliefs" I'm certainly not going to grant authority only to authors of the texts in the christian and hebrew bibles. They are certainly fair sources for Pharisees believed and should be taken into account when trying to understand the early 1st century CE. BUT, what I'm not seeing (at least here), is the evidence that _early Christians_ believed otherwise about the resurrection itself.
We got on to Pharisees following Joe saying "Paul's notion was Hebrew not Greek." I think this is spot on. I think Paul's beliefs were largely unchanged; he became a Pharisee who believed the Messiah was here, rather than a Pharisee longing for the day the Messiah arrived, following his vision of said Messiah on the Road to Damascus.
The unspoken background here is the Empty Tomb. Joe takes the view that "4 that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures," necessarily implies an Empty Tomb because Paul, in common with modern Christians, believed the corpse was renovated. I think it more likely that Paul believed Jesus was resurrected in a new body, the corpse was still in the tomb, a discarded husk. Paul did not mention an Empty Tomb because there was no empty tomb.
Tim: Yes, the resurrection was a future event. And the crucifixtion and resurrection of Christ was the considered beginning of the new age. The authors were living in what Paul (and presumably the others) viewed as essentially an in-between age. The one age had not fully passed away and the new age had not fully begun. A lot of Paul's writing speaks of things like eternal life as both future and available now. I chose the quote I did because it conveys exactly this: the spirit gives life... [and] will also give life to your mortal bodies If Paul was explicitly not talking about life in our mortal bodies now, he would have clarified. He's too much of a lawyer, imho, to not do so.
That is certainly possible. However, it is clear that Paul believed there was a time to come, a specific moment, when the general resurrection would occur. As I quoted last time:
He did not think that that had happened yet, but presumably thought it would be soon.
Did he believe he was already transformed by the Holy Spirit? I would guess he did. And therefore that transformation was entirely different in nature to the change he looked forward to at the resurrection.
Look at your quote: the spirit gives life... [and] will also give life to your mortal bodies Why does he say "mortal bodies"? Because he was talking about the pre-resurrection body, something that would transform a Christian in the here-and-now, prior to the transformation that would occur at the resurrection.
There is a good deal of scholarly support for the idea that, in 1 Cor. 15, Paul is speaking of the resurrection body as another body that is not materially continuous with the mortal body. That doesn't mean it's correct, of course, but it is a subject of scholarly discussion, and it's a little but surprising to hear that an unnamed professor at Perkins has never heard of it.
>>The most important thing to notice is the discontinuity between the seed and the plant. "What you sow is not the body which is to be ...But God gives it a body as he has chosen, and to each seed its own body" (I Cor 15.37-38). In other words, for Paul the seed "dies" and God creates a plant in its place. Paul seems to have in mind here the phenomenon whereby the sprout of a new plant springs forth from that which is planted, such as a bean or a potato, and the "seed" itself shrivels and eventually decomposes. Of course, for Paul there is continuity between the dead person buried and the person who is raised. This is not, however, primarily material continuity in the sense of a relatively slight transformation of the body, It is rather the continuity of the person.<<
Adela Yarbro Collins, The Beginnings of the Gospel: Probings of Mark in Context (2001) p.124. Collins is a Professor of New Testament at Yale University (previously at Chicago and Notre Dame, PhD from Harvard), and the author of the Hermeneia series commentary on Mark's gospel.
you found one source I ciyndnitfnd any, I quoited four that contradict you.
In other words, for Paul the seed "dies" and God creates a plant in its place. Paul seems to have in mind here the phenomenon whereby the sprout of a new plant springs forth from that which is planted, such as a bean or a potato, and the "seed" itself shrivels and eventually decomposes. Of course, for Paul there is continuity between the dead person buried and the person who is raised. This is not, however, primarily material continuity in the sense of a relatively slight transformation of the body, It is rather the continuity of the person.<<
she does not know how plants work. why would he use a plant metaphor if he does not see a parallel? plants do not have separate plants from the seed, the seed changes into the new plant,
:"the sprout of a new plant springs forth from that which is planted," that is not the process described as a separate body,
Obviously there is more than one sense in which we are reviewed and transformed, There are several aspects to the process.
think about this The Gospel says I'm going to give you a second chance. You will be reviewed, you will be revived. but this is saying throw away who you are and become a ghost in someone else's body.
Isaiah 1:18 "Come now, let us settle the matter," says the LORD. "Though your sins are like scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they are red as crimson, they shall be like wool."
not consistent with getting a whole other body
Joe: you found one source I ciyndnitfnd any, I quoted four that contradict you.
That was not me, but thanks to whoever it was. Here are references to a couple more.
In his work on The Apostles' Creed, Professor McGiffert asserts that St/ Pauls gives "explicit denial that the flesh will rise again," since with this apostle "the resurrection is a spiritrual matter"
https://www.jstor.org/stable/3135596?seq=1#metadata_info_tab_contents
Kirsopp Lake was among the first to insist on the possibility that the earliest Christians posited an immaterial or spiritual body for the risen Jesus.
https://brill.com/view/book/edcoll/9789004316690/B9789004316690_005.xml
That said, you are arguing for the mainstream Christian view, and most of the scholars in this area are mainstream Christian, and so of course tow the party line. I do doubt you can find more scholars supporting your view.
Joe: she does not know how plants work. why would he use a plant metaphor if he does not see a parallel? plants do not have separate plants from the seed, the seed changes into the new plant,
There is an original plant that produces the seed, then there is a new plant that springs from the seed. Two different plants.
Joe: think about this The Gospel says I'm going to give you a second chance. You will be reviewed, you will be revived. but this is saying throw away who you are and become a ghost in someone else's body.
It will be your body, but a new one. Just like when you buy a new car, you get rid of the old one, and the new one becomes yours.
these passages do not say you get a second body, they say spiritual body which means merely loss of body you are a spirit,
"the resurrection is a spiritual matter" does not = separate second body
immaterial body is not a second body it's just being immaterial.
those views expressed are too veg. I agree our bodies will be spiritual. But that is not what I;m calling a separate body it just means our bodies reconstituted as spiritual.
right not a separate second plant.
I think you are back peddling your changing your view from operate second body to the old body being made spiritual which is not the same concept.
to be clear the idea that the physical body stays dead and we become wholly spirit is not the same as the concept I thought you argued for. It;s not exactly what I believe either but it's not the same. My view says our physical bodies are reconstituted but in spiritual form.
Kirsop Lake is highly regarded as a scholar,he was not a fundie he was not an extreme liberal. But he is expressing a radical idea here above. He is best known for his translations of the Church fathers.
Joe: these passages do not say you get a second body, they say spiritual body which means merely loss of body you are a spirit,
I think it could mean spiritual as in connected to the divine, rather than immaterial.
Joe: "the resurrection is a spiritual matter" does not = separate second body
It supports that view.
Joe: immaterial body is not a second body it's just being immaterial.
Now you are just clutching at straws. Jesus' original body was material. If he now has an immaterial body, that is a different body.
Joe: those views expressed are too veg. I agree our bodies will be spiritual. But that is not what I;m calling a separate body it just means our bodies reconstituted as spiritual.
So how is having your body transformed into an immaterial body different to getting a new body?
Pix: There is an original plant that produces the seed, then there is a new plant that springs from the seed. Two different plants.
Joe: right not a separate second plant.
Not separate, in the sense that there is a definite link from one to the other via the seed. Just as the second body is linked to the first by the soul.
Joe: I think you are back peddling your changing your view from operate second body to the old body being made spiritual which is not the same concept.
What do you think is the salient difference?
Say a man has been dead a thousand years at the resurrection. Does he get a new body that is identical to the first? No, because the new one is spiritual. It is different in a fundamental way. But it is still him.
Has it been made from his old body? No! That turned to dust centuries ago.
So in what sense is this guy's body the same?
Joe: My view says our physical bodies are reconstituted but in spiritual form.
So this guy who has been dead a thousand years, God will reassemble all the atoms he was made of, then he will get rid of them all, to give a body that is not made of atoms?
Again, if I have broom, and I change the handle, and later change the head, is it the same broom?
Not to any degree. It;s an insane idea because it destroys concept of the self it destroys the notion of identity. You have not answered this.
that is utterly silly. We are spirits in bodies. We are made up of body and soul,and spirit. Take away the body there is still spirit and soul, it;s not a new body it's; just the ghost that is in you. yo are calling it a body but it's not
imagine yo are standing there then another body appears beside you, your spirit comes out of you and goes into the body beside you. That is what I thought you are defending.
that is not two different plants.that's insane, do you not understand the concept of conservation of mass?
you have one body, you do not get a different body, the one you have now will be re-made.
It seemed to me at first you were supporting the two body idea now you are trying to call the original body remade the second body,
His original body re-constituted in spiritual form
since we don't know what spirit is how can we say the atoms have to be gotten rid of? ho do you know they can't be made spiritual in some way?
good little brain teaser I was in second grade, seven years old when I first heard that. An ax has seven heads and 10 handles is it the same ax? the problem is we are not merely collections of body parts, we have spirit and soul. It's a triunity you can;t just stick soul in new body and think it's you it's not the same person
Joe: Not to any degree. It;s an insane idea because it destroys concept of the self it destroys the notion of identity. You have not answered this.
That is just nonsense. The self persists in the shade that resides in Sheol. And I have already pointed this out.
Joe: that is utterly silly. We are spirits in bodies. We are made up of body and soul,and spirit. Take away the body there is still spirit and soul, it;s not a new body it's; just the ghost that is in you. yo are calling it a body but it's not
Not sure what you are saying. Again, the Pharisees, and presumably Paul, believed the self persisted as a shade - without a body - in Sheol, and at the resurrection, they got new bodies. The spirit in the body would be that shade - the ghost that is you. Not a new body.
Then the resurrection happens, and god gives you a nmew, heavenly body that shines like a star.
Joe: imagine yo are standing there then another body appears beside you, your spirit comes out of you and goes into the body beside you. That is what I thought you are defending.
Sure, because the spirit moving from one to the other is the shade in Sheol. Paul answers the question, what of those who are not dead. For them it will happens in the blink of a eye; the old body goes, the new one takes its place. I do not understand how that latter process is different to what you describe.
Joe: that is not two different plants.that's insane,...
Yes it is! The new plant may well grow up beside the plant that dropped the seed.
Joe: .... do you not understand the concept of conservation of mass?
Yes, so I am confident saying you are wrong to use it in this context, but go on, give me a laugh. explain the relevance.
Joe: you have one body, you do not get a different body, the one you have now will be re-made.
How is that different to swapping bodies in the blink of an eye, as Paul describes.
Joe: His original body re-constituted in spiritual form
So all the original atoms will be drawn from all across the world. And then changed into something different.
So what was the point of gathering all those original atoms again?
Joe: since we don't know what spirit is how can we say the atoms have to be gotten rid of? ho do you know they can't be made spiritual in some way?
Atoms are earthly. Paul is clear the earthly can not inherit.
Gary said…
I have repeatedly asserted that the biggest weakness in the evidence for the alleged resurrection of Jesus is the fact that most historians and scholars doubt the eyewitness/associate of eyewitness authorship of the books that tell this tale (see here). For all we know, these stories are the theological or literary inventions of their non-eyewitness authors. But what if these four authors did profess to be eyewitnesses to multiple back-from-the-dead Jesus sightings? Should we believe them?
Here's why: https://lutherwasnotbornagaincom.wordpress.com/2019/10/19/why-we-should-not-believe-the-resurrection-stories-even-if-they-were-written-by-alleged-eyewitnesses/
now for something completely different: Hartshorne...
The Resurrection as Apology and as Doctrine
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My Answer to Bradley Bowen on Blood and Water
Once Again, Does Science Produce Knowledge? (Part ...
Blood and Water From Jesus' side