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Nutrition NASM CPT Podcast
NASM-CPT Podcast: Eating Disorders and Fitness
Rick Richey, MS 1
Host and NASM Master Instructor Rick Richey talks about eating disorders and non-triggering with expert Abbey Griffith.
She is an NASM Certified Personal Trainer, Nutrition Coach, and Eating Disorder Recoveree who has devoted her life to helping people of all ages, shapes, and sizes find a wellness routine they truly enjoy.
The two cover topics such as warning signs inherent of eating disorders, tools to guide clients and much more.
See all of our nutrition course offerings here - if you are interested in learning more on a professional basis.
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Scope of practice for trainers when it comes to eating disorders
Signs a client might have an eating disorder
The impacts of eating disorders in fitness
Gain valuable tools on how to help your clients within scope
Certification MENTIONED:
NASM Nutrition Certification
00:00:02 Rick Richey
You were listening to the NASM CPT Podcast with Rick Richey, the official podcast of the National Academy of Sports Medicine
Welcome to the NSM CPT podcast. My name is Rick Richey. Thank you so much for being here today and I want to point something out. In the previous episode of the NASM CPT Podcast or a few back, there was a sneak attack. The sneak attack was in fact a different podcast called The Fitness and Wellness Master Class.
Podcasts and it's a podcast that I was like. It popped up and I was like I don't remember having this topic. I don't remember reading about it or having a conversation about it or presenting on it. And then I realized it was another podcast that slipped in there and gave you the opportunity to listen to something new that NSM is doing.
And I wanted to listen to it and the thing I love about it is that you can earn continuing education credits EECS by listening to it going online, paying a $35 fee, taking a quiz from listening to the podcast called The Fitness and Wellness Master Class podcast by NASM and this one was on hydration so.
I'm usually here with a big old Cup of coffee and I'm here with Crystal Clearwater right now. Drinking during this podcast, yes, and so I encourage you to listen to that podcast. And if you need CC's or C use, you can get those by listening, going online, paying for it, taking a quiz based off the podcast, and.
You 2 can get your continuing education credits. I believe it is .2 credits for each one of those $35 fee allows you to do it and if you don't want to pay the fee, you can simply learn by listening to the podcast. Anyway, it's brilliant.
All right, Speaking of brilliant. Today I have a wonderful guest with us, and I was she was brought to my attention by presenting at Optima and her name is Abby Griffith and she did a presentation at Optima on disordered eating and this is going to be an important conversation for us to have today, so I'm so thankful to have the opportunity to have this discussion.
And as you know, if you were watching the Facebook live, as this is going on, you can ask questions and so Abby and I are going to talk for a little while. We're going to learn from her.
And then you'll be able to ask some questions, and I want this to be an engaging session, so please as you listen to it and start to put your questions in our producer, Greg will gather those questions and then we'll ask those questions as we get toward the end. And with all of that said.
Abby, thanks for being here.
00:02:51 Abbey Griffith
Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited.
It is wonderful to have you present today and I want you to do just a little bit for us. Tell us a little bit about who you are, where you're from, what your background is, and your education and your experience regarding disordered eating.
Sounds good, so hi everybody, my name is Abby Griffith. I am here in Atlanta, GA technically Decatur. If you guys are familiar with the area an I'm actually here in my office at Clarity Fitness, which is Georgia's first body positive Wellness Center. We've got classes, personal training, the whole shebang. It's a really great place. I love it.
So much I'm so proud of. This awesome.
I used to live there, by the way, I don't know I do that.
Yeah, I was indicating.
Lived on the corner of Clermont and Scott Blvd.
That's amazing. We're on the main square, like right behind the gazebo.
Oh yeah, yeah.
Right now you keep.
Going I'm gonna stop interrupting, but you know, I gotta throw that out there alright?
Later is so that's perfect.
Abby's backstory
Awesome so yeah. So Decatur's been great there. So amazing great community. I was born and raised in Cleveland OH and went to school in Miami FL so I've kind of been all over the place. I actually went to school for Industrial Engineering an that's carried over a ton for the business side of things. I got my NSM CPT.
About three years ago now an have been in personal training as a client, since I think 5th grade. So it's been a minute. I've been really involved in eating disorder, prevention, and education since I found out that I was struggling. Actually in my junior year of college. So I had gone about 10 years.
Dealing with anorexia and had had no idea, and that's unfortunately the case for a lot of people, men, women, all shapes and sizes, who just really had no idea that that was something that was going on because a lot of the things that are very focused on in that disorder.
Are very very supported by society, which is things like the ossan rigidity and pressure and control around food and exercise, and that's not what intuitive and tuning in and being there for yourself looks like necessarily. So that was my new passion after I figured out that that was going on and hope that I can.
Educate people on that as well.
So some people have no idea. I can understand I was listening to the the fitness and Wellness podcast and I could understand how people don't know that they don't drink enough water, but it's harder for me to understand that people don't know that they're not having enough food. Can you dig into that a little bit and explain what's going on?
How to Tell when you need more food
So that is. I remember when I was first brought into therapy there was this long sheet of questions that my therapist had sent my way an it was check the box. Yes completely agree. Don't really care. Definitely disagree. an A lot of the questions that were in there were things like.
I very regularly think about what I'm going to have for dinner lunch breakfast today the next day. It's almost always on my mind. I think about how much I'm going to be working out or what I'm going to have to do to make up for things that I have eaten, or it ways I haven't moved.
Um, I feel guilty if I skip a workout, I feel guilty. If I eat certain things an while, I'm not diagnosing anyone or saying that if you have said yes to any of these, you immediately have an eating disorder. Those are actually things that are very, very, very common that can snowball and are honestly kind of an issue in themselves.
Because there really doesn't need to be guilt an hostility towards yourself, regardless of what you're eating. That mindset doesn't help you make different decisions. It doesn't help you feel your body with things that feel good. It's just a way to beat yourself up. And that's not perpetuate ING Health and Wellness, that's.
This kind of toxic beat yourself up mindset that we need to start to shift away from, especially in the fitness and health industry.
Since you've been through this, you know it's a personal experience and I'm gonna, I'm gonna say thank you for sharing.
This story and making yourself vulnerable and in front of our audience to Share your story. So I want to just dig into what that looks like a little bit more.
How does how does it?
Start and how does that snowball into something that becomes a disorder?
How an eating disorder starts
Definitely so my story could be completely different than anyone else is, but personally for me I was always raised in a family that was very type. A very perfectionisty, if that's a word very much so.
Everyone is very, very focused on achievement. Next level, next goal To Do List. Knock it off an. That's a. That's a tough mindset to have on everything all the time. I think that it can be productive to a degree an doesn't need to be how you run all day everyday.
'cause that can be very daunting and very obsessive when it gets escalated. My family was very focused on weight loss all the time. There was a lot of negative body talk from both parents from distant family, close family about what they hate about their body or how they wish that their body could change or how they wish that their physical abilities could change.
Um, in terms of what they could lift or how fast they could run an that was a big judgment factor that I was brought into from a very young age. I was going to healthy kids. Healthy weight at five I was going to Weight Watchers at eight it was. Yeah, it was a lot of stuff going on that was sending the message. That weight loss is good.
Weight gain is very, very bad all the time, no matter what, and so I just that was normal for me. So that was what I moved through life. Knowing and believing that if I gained weight that was very bad, very unhealthy. And that's not true. That statement alone cannot be carried over to every situation always, and.
We need to start to look into weight gain, might not mean health lost an if you are looking at all the buckets of health, all of the components of Wellness, social Wellness, emotional, physical and really taking in the big picture. Just because you gained 510 pounds doesn't mean that you're in a really unhealthy situation.
So that was that was my start.
Uh, yeah, so there are a lot of things there to to breakdown and so a couple of them are some real serious environmental factors that are going on and the environment is just where you are and what influences you. So your environments are familial there. The people you hang around with there.
You know you got it from the family and the even extended family. I've had the the community in the environment which I find to be very interesting is that these companies and maybe maybe the weight watcher class is allowed. You know, the five year old to come in.
Because they were thinking well, this is part of an early adopting good thought process, but the purpose of being brought into it wasn't necessarily that it was more. It seems more than it was trying to prevent and keep. And there's this negative.
Concern that's going on about any type of weight gain, which obviously for a 5 year old who has to develop their body. You know there is. There's so much to be broken down in this situation that I just. I'm bothered I'm bothered by it. You mentioned the Wellness.
UH, components as well, and when I was in school we talked about the Wellness wheel and you mentioned it and those those components could be environmental, which is what we were just talking about and intellectual. So what's in stimulating you? Intellectually, your social environment, physical environment, spiritual phucked financial.
Your job, your emotional well, being all of these are components of this Wellness wheel and and you can implement and put more things in it and as a personal trainer I feel like you know we're we're good at the physical because that's why people come to us. But there are more components for that.
As well, and we should understand that our job as a fitness professional is not as you mentioned it. I think it's wonderful you've you've covered your bases really well, right? So we're not diagnosing anything.
But we need to be able to recognize certain things. Kim, can you now speak to us about maybe?
What do they call it like red flags for eating disorders, red flags for, and different types of eating disorders? And if maybe you can kind of go down the list of what a few of these main eating disorders are, what they look like by definition, let us understand them a little bit better. And then what some of those red flags might look like.
Disorders and red flags to look for
Definitely. So just for starters, the main eating disorders that you're going to hear a lot are anorexia nervosa, which is your restriction of food really trying not to eat. That's the most common one. That's what a lot of people see in the typical eating disorder world as.
The token eating disorder, but there are a lot more that are very, very less commonly recognized. There is binge eating disorder that is in fact an eating disorder. A lot of people say, oh, I binge on this or oh, that person just needs to stop eating so much and get more focused. There's actual psychological stuff that's going on.
Behind the scenes if it is to a degree of an eating disorder an I think that that's really important to recognize that no matter how amazing of a personal trainer you are, if someone is truly dealing with binge eating disorder, there's other stuff that needs to be brought into that equation. So paying attention to that.
Bulimia, which is some kind of excreting what you have eaten. Some people use laxatives. Some people make themselves sick. There is a type of getting rid of in air quotes for those who are listening. What you have eaten by working out, which is an exercise based eating disorder. So if people are.
Constantly running the cardio up to make up for something that they might want to eat, or something that they have eaten or had drink and drink drunk. That's really good waiting.
Some trouble conjugating today.
All of the grammar is happening in my brain right now.
I love it. I love it continue.
OK, so those are those are.
Some of the big ones there is also A and you knew understanding of one that has come out. That's actually based with people who have diabetes. Insulin makes you.
Less hungry and some people have used that in terms of restricting so they'll abuse medication or really use something that they have as a resource for a different serious health issue to help them restrict calories or help them keep their metabolism high or whatever it is that they feel like they're doing, and that's another very serious.
Issue so as on top of these major behavioral things that you can see happen, I really want to stress that it's not size specific. It's not gender specific, it's not age specific. A lot of people think that it's people that look like me that have eating disorders an it's not it's.
Men, it's people of all races, all backgrounds, all socioeconomic statuses, an it's really important that we're not diagnosing, oh, she doesn't have anorexia yet because she's not small enough, which was what led to living in a state of anorexia for a really long time. 'cause I was never I until the end.
I was not in a place where my body was noticeably.
Different or quote unquote abnormal an? That's a really unsafe standard to set someone having a problem on.
Interesting yeah, 'cause in my mind I I look at people and I could you some people? There's a clear Association with an eating disorder or at least a clear assumption and an based on how the size of a person is. And especially you might see somebody that's really small.
They're exercising a lot. I want to break down a few things one.
Um, a lot of people eat.
And exercise and a lot of my clients exercise so they can eat and they like eating and they want to be able to do that. There's there's clearly a point where there is a disorder and there's also a range where that's clearly not going to be a disordered situation as a Type 2 diabetic.
I have more carbs on days that I know I'm going to workout. I have fewer carbs on days that I know I'm not going to exercise because my blood sugar depends on that and I can limit and restrict some of my medications because I can handle how my food intake and my exercise.
Relate to each other food intake and exercise can relate to each other.
Um, can you help us understand where that spectrum starts to get a little bit more concerning? And when we need to deliver a different message to the people that are doing that.
A healthy relationship between food and exercise
Definitely, so I like to think about exercise and movement or exercise and eating as two different pillars that are going toward the same Wellness goal. So I totally love your example with being type 2 diabetic. I think that that's a great example of where we do need to play into what we know our body.
Feels best in an is safest an using our medication wisely. I think that that's all exactly spot on. What I have a concern of is when people start to workout so that they can eat or eat so that they can workout. I think that when it's of do this so that you are allowed to do that in terms of.
I if I don't workout I will not have breakfast if I don't workout I will not give myself permission to have a drink that I want to have intuitively and responsibly with some friends tonight or have the Taco dish that I was looking forward to. I'm not allowed to have that because I haven't done.
Workout or I haven't worked out enough. That's the slippery slope as well as the other way where I've had the tacos now. I must burn them off of my body by working out to the calorie.
Comparison and I know that they're this many calories, so I have to cardio off this many calories. Or just that guilt factor. I've eaten this so I must force myself to workout this way or this amount an that's the tough part because I as a fitness professional, totally get that there is somewhat of a balancing act that has.
To happen in terms of Wellness in terms of I am wanting to feel good an if I eat 18 million hamburgers and never stand up off my couch that will perpetuate the not feeling great situation. Not that hamburgers are off limits forever and permanently, but hey, maybe I would feel better if I ate this much and move this much and just.
Tuning into how you feel, but it's not doing one so that I can do the other and vice versa. I think that if you think about it as two separate, equally important pillars toward an overall Wellness goal, that that helps it be from a place of my goal is to feel good and to live a long life and whatever else your goals might be, an that's.
The goal that I'm using for both of these, but I'm not doing one in exchange for the.
Other if that makes sense.
It does make sense, and I think that there's there's such a you know I don't what I don't want to do is bring into question anything that might make people who have a disorder go. You know what? I agree with Rick on this because I'm not trying to argue it. But what I am trying to do is find that.
Balance and I I'm gonna share a story of mine from this weekend we had.
Pizza is not good for the old Type 2 diabetic over here and what I wanted to be was only two small slices of pizza ended up being.
More, let's just say more more.
And I thought.
I need to go for a walk after this and I definitely need to get a workout in tomorrow morning, which was not necessarily planned. But now I'm like man, I need to get to work on him.
I'm not doing. I'm not punishment myself for eating the pizza.
But I'm trying to make a responsible decision. It's also not something that occurs regularly, it's something that I'm aware of that I have a pathology that my overall health and Wellness depends on me being able to do that. I think it's also responsible after people have a large meals and they go.
You know what? Let's go for a walk. Let's go for a walk around like a family. Let's just go out for a walk and enjoy the night. But we had a big meal and we need to take some responcible steps. There's a difference between responsible steps and irresponsible.
Well, that's not even say irresponsible with punishing yourself and obsessively creating a sense of guilt around the amount of food you take in and the need the compulsion that have to. If I don't workout, then and your series of.
If bends like a computer program, your series of if bends starts taking you down a really bad place. It's a bad Rd that that.
Doesn't have a healthy ending and the shift towards understanding.
Health and Wellness versus size right is is totally different and there's a size obsession there. And you mentioned early on there are, you know that can be a hard world to live in when you're being perpetuated these visions.
Of the supposed to be is and you had that from a young age. In your experience, I do like the shift towards the appreciation for thicker bodies for more healthy bodies. I'm a big fan of that in general, but through the fitness of it all, I think that's very, very nice to see.
The change starting to take place, so I'm pleased with with what that looks like, so I don't want to associate guilt with anybody that does a meal and says man, I better make sure I get my workout in tomorrow, but the unhealthy turn of events that takes place is the punishment.
The guilt associated. What are some of the other red flags that we, as fitness professionals or any red flags? We haven't discussed it. What are the red flags that we see and then you also in your Optima session talk about triggering or for us, maybe non triggering and making sure that.
We're very aware of our words and what we use and how we speak with people.
The Importance of non-triggering
Definitely I love. I love how you just broke down the compulsion angle because that's a huge word that's.
When it's when it's and I have two when it's a guilt ridden one. It's for me. If I had had more pizza than I had planned and written into Myfitness pal, I would have forced myself to go on the walk even if I really didn't want to and I would have made myself workout harder than I had wanted to the day before. 2 burnoff.
Things and that was a very compulsion based thing and I definitely voice that my trainer. I was saying give me a calorie burn for the week so that I can lose X pounds a month. I was asking if I could track them as calories. I was asking if I could track spinach leaves, individual leaves as calories.
It's the compulsion and the level, the degree to which one obsess is that I think is the concern and I totally if if I'm eating a lot and feel like moving a little bit would feel good again. It's based on that feel good. That's that's what I would do. But it's not because I have to or I should. It's because.
That is what is going to make me feel better, and that's what sounds good. And that's what that family time with that walk sounds pleasant and sounds like what I want to do. And I think that that then we open a whole new caniform. So some people just genuinely don't have that drive to work out for years at a time. Obviously, then we need to do some shifting. Maybe they have.
A really negative Association of movement. Maybe they think that working out is only getting under a barbell and they don't wanna do that. There's other stuff to go into with that realm, but I do think that just opening up the what makes you feel good. What sounds fun? What sounds like what you would enjoy as a long term Rd to health instead of this.
Monthly calorie knock it off kind of zone. I was big on getting dizzy at my workouts. I was very regularly meeting to sit down or lay down in a workout because I wasn't eating enough. I didn't know that at the time but found that one out body image comments I ripped myself apart in terms of what I saw in the mirror in terms of what I thought I should look like.
Pinching and squeezing at your body is a concern point that you could look at. If you see your clients kind of like pinching at their fat in the mirror, there is usually an Association of judgment there, something that they wish that they could remove from their bodies in some way which might not necessarily be motivated.
From an empowered want to feel well, want to be well placed an if we want to open up a really big can of worms. One thing that helped me a ton was not associating the words good or bad to food. And I think that that is a whole debate and I've had this conversation in lots of different ways with lots of different people. But when people say.
I ate well or this is good food or this is bad food or I've been good or I've been bad. That adds moral judgment to what you're putting in your body.
Oh, interesting.
That is a very very slippery slope because, again, to the person that's struggling, they've done something good so they don't have to punish themselves or they've done something.
Bad, so now they have to Foster and harbor this guilt and this frustration with themselves an him in no way saying that we should eat only the quote, unquote bad foods. But you can start to shift the conversation and say how many nutrient dense foods can you incorporate? How many?
NRG dense calorie dense foods. Can you incorporate but use the word enerji, not calorie. I was just drawing the drawing the parallel, but that's not good shifts to talk about food. I would recommend not touching the topic of food with an eating disorder patient just to be safe and to cover your bases, but if let that be for the eating disorder professionals.
Just so that you can make sure that those triggers aren't there, but if you need to nutrient dense foods and energy dense foods instead of good and bad and being good and being bad. And that's a really big topic that I think is very very normalized. If you look at food labels, it's eat good, this is.
Then good bars if you eat certain foods. This without the guilt is a huge marketing campaign, so people play into that and a lot of fitness professionals might slip into saying those kind of things and perpetuate ING that kind of messaging too.
That is very interesting. So now I do have a question because.
You know, perhaps we do have individuals who have disordered eating, and I'm concerned about them, and they're not seeing a professional, or they've not had a conversation with us, and so we're assuming that, much like I often assume, that my young daughter.
Has not done her homework and so I asked her about it and she says yes. I've done my homework and then I say can I see your homework and then?
You get really mad at me.
And she gets really mad she.
Gets really upset and there's a line from Hamlet where it says methinks the lady doth protest too much.
And there's a lot of protests that go on what I don't wanna do, though I can do that with my daughter like she can protest and then I can look at it and be like, well, you're really upset because in fact you did not do your homework.
That's that's a much more sensitive conversation to have with somebody because we're concerned, but.
Is is it our place to bring it up? Because if somebody were were overtly saying if it was heart disease, an I saw somebody holding their chest, I would ask some questions regarding it if it were any other thing going on, then I would ask questions, but here we don't want to offend and.
There's a. There's an Association with it too because.
It is a. There's something going on inside somebody's mind and we don't want people to have guilt associated with it. We want them to have Wellness associated with it.
We're out of concern bringing it up. Did did somebody bring it up to you at any point did you protest? Did you get upset with people that that may be brought it up and at what point did that shift where you're like? There is a problem that needs to be addressed, but what can we also do as fitness professionals?
Working one on one with clients or maybe in a group.
That we talked to somebody. And what can we say that doesn't?
I don't know infuriate or, you know, make somebody walk away an because we had. We had a woman at our gym one time and she was exercising for 120 minutes at a time. She was incredibly small, but we had multiple gyms and it turned out that every time.
The management would approach an. I'm not sure how it was done and I'm not, but she just stopped going to that gym and then go to another one in this large network of gyms in New York City to continue doing what she was doing because she didn't want to be bothered by it. She didn't want to hear it anyway. Can you just kind of? I've just met somebody.
Pair up and you're gonna have to. Your gonna have to clear that you're gonna have to brush that.
All out, alrighty.
Then you gotta clear it up now.
Definitely, so that's a that's a really great question, and it's very, very scary to have those conversations and to bring things up, because like you said, it can go very poorly. It does happen, it's not, it's, it's just you know that it is worth it if it is to go the right way.
Or at least to plant the seed an I know for me my trainer, only one of them I had for I believe in my period of personal training, client based living and when I went to college my trainer said kind.
Of casting on the way out, hanging. Don't get an eating.
Disorder, and that was that was what I got.
An I was like oh, don't worry, I don't like to throw up and that was just we were speaking in different directions. It was me not liking to throw up is an 18th of a massive equation that is an eating disorder based behavior system an A very very very small component.
Of all of the different ways that that behavior might be carried out, an I in fact did already have one when I looked back at what the behaviors were and how focused and compulsive and Harden myself, I was being so a bigger conversation could be to check out this questionnaire I was trying to Google it, but I didn't want to make too many typing sounds so.
Now he is not sure that it's the half health questionnaire.
important questions to ask
If it's the one that I'm thinking of, it's five questions that are very open ended, and I believe NASM touches on this in the CPT for a little bit when they talk about just some things to be aware of an it's five questions that.
If you answer yes to them are a step in and understanding that someone might be struggling and then at that point an even if it's not. Hello I have this pamphlet. Please fill it out, it could just be in conversation. Have you heard this client beating themselves up about the food that they've eaten? Have you heard them?
Feeling guilt around their body or feeling like they should force themselves to look a different way or has have they been really obsessive, compulsive about exercise and if we start getting some yeses then moving to the next steps of potentially getting a therapist involved. If they're open to it.
And if they're not, it's they're not, and there are things that you can walk the walk and talk the talk and see if your example of being gentle and kind to yourself helps. They're looking at you and your behaviors as a model, and if you are in there doing an extra hour of a workout after you do your hour workout.
They're going to think that that's that more is more and better is more an if you are able to show them, hey, I took a rest day because I did not want to workout at all today and that's OK. And I'm not gonna force myself to change anything about the rest of my day to make up for that, because I know that.
Over all, I'm in this Wellness routine and that that's not going to spiral anything that I'm going to be fine. And it's a day. And it's not that big of a deal an talking about different resources that you might have looked into for non diet based food support. Whether that's a non diabase therapist or a nutritionist or just starting to tune into how you feel instead of.
What your external rules are about what you should and shouldn't eat. I definitely think that there are there are ways to have that conversation that are hey, I've seen this. I am not assuming anything. I'm not saying that you have anything going on. If you want some support. I'm here. My door is always open.
You can text or call me. I also have some really cool connections, so let me know if you're open to any of those. If not, keep doing you. I support you. I just want to make sure that everything is fine an I think that.
Nine times out of.
10 people are not going to pop off at you for saying it that way.
Yeah, that was that was a beautiful way of saying it. It was.
Non judgmental, it was supportive. It was understanding and I think it's good if just to go back and listen to what you just said like rewind it in this podcast a couple of times and be like oh that's good. That's nice. I like that and and and again if it was any other disorder.
You know if it was an element, an ongoing pathology that you know there's I don't know, man, I just think about it again. Being diabetic, there was a lot of guilt that I put on myself because I spent so much time in my life, even as a fitness edgecator telling people that it's a lifestyle disease and then I got it.
And I was like, wait a.
Minute did I mess up? Is there something wrong with me and so I'm putting this kind of guilt on top of it and understand for myself that I need to?
To know that it is a complex pathology, there is a series of complex issues and you're not a bad person for it. You're not a weak.
Person for it.
It is a situation that you are in and to remove that guilt and that concern that you're weak, the cost of something.
Or that you are less than or I can't have this conversation with people and and I think it's interesting.
Be cause I feel like there's so many people that.
Have had eating disorders that.
That spent so much time hiding from it, running from it, keeping it in the closet, not letting anybody else see what's going on in their life. And then one day you meet him and they're talking about their eating disorders like like they would talk about which kind of coffee they want at coffee shop. They're like, well, there was this one. And then I went here and I'm talking, and so they're going down.
But what a juxtaposition, though, right? It's it's a serious change, and what you do is you see something that you're hiding from and you're so fearful of being exposed.
And when you find peace with that, with understanding that and opening yourself up, you see so many people opening up about their eating disorders. Women, in particular, I think men do Bury that down and they don't talk about it. And like you said.
It's not limited to women, it's not limit that we we put these limitations on it and go, oh, that's the face of the eating disorders. And that's not true. That's not true. So to open up and have a conversation. And again, male or female like you're not weak. The cost of these things, so I appreciate that.
I want to I want to open this up to conversations from people that are listening live, so any of them are live listeners that have been that that have been tuning in an listening to this conversation, I'd like to flip over to Greg and see if Greg if anybody has any questions for Abby.
00:38:52 Speaker 4
We actually do have a couple one coming in from Marissa who asked can you discuss or so worth or Rex? Yeah, it's a new concept to.
Her, if she hadn't heard.
Of it until maybe two months ago.
Is it a real thing?
Definitely absolutely a real thing. Great question. That is. I think that that's a really great point to the conversation that we were having about that line. Between compulsion, obsession must have too and overall understanding that this might be helpful for my Wellness. So orthorexia, for those who don't know is.
Session with.
Being healthy in air quotes and that again not not trying to categorize. Not saying that this is a good or bad thing to do, but a lot of times when we see this, people are very set in the types of foods that they'll allow themselves to eat ever to the point that they won't go to a restaurant.
If it doesn't have this to the point that they won't hang out with friends if these foods won't be available, and this isn't a medical reason, this isn't. I can't eat gluten. This isn't, I can't eat whatever else dairy for true biological health reasons this is.
Dairy is bad, meat is bad, gluten is bad. I will not eat it. Whatever that kind of categorization of food is usually.
In line paired with a lot of exercise, a lot of certain types of exercise, it's a very regimented and controlled to the point of obsession eating disorder. And that was in my repertoire of eating disorders as well. So I know that one well and it was, uh, a big pressure.
Anna big identifier for me to connect with being healthy an it was. I was known as the person that was always drinking this and eating this an working out this way and looking this way an I liked that identifier an I felt like that was kind of what we were just talking about again of.
Strengthening a pride thing and I'm a good person. I'm better than you because I am more controlled than you are kind of thing. An that's the same same conversation, same important, same relevance. It is dangerous because it is taking away from your quality of life an.
It's not allowing you to tune into what feels good or what you enjoy an. I think that in exercise and food you're missing out on a ton. If you're not able to say I love this type of movement. I love rollerblading. I love dance. I love lifting I love.
Whatever food that might be an that is a true quality of life enhancement. That's part of that Wellness we LAN. When we deprive completely ourselves of things, an activities we're taking away from that quality of life. Plus, it's just not, it's not benefiting you.
To be that rigid an that controlled. And I think that people think more is more in terms of control in terms of what you're allowed in allowing yourself to eat what you're allowing yourself to do in movement. And that's not necessarily true. So educating people on the importance of rest days on the importance of balance on the importance of.
Liking what you eat.
I think that alright, they're really important.
So I do find it very interesting this this eating disorders the the word.
Ortho that that suffix or prefix there orthorexia ortho means straight like a orthodontist so at ortho straight Donatist or Don told or Don's or your teeth so you have this straight line so anorexia we got this kind of like this rigid line this straight.
Line that you're not veering from, and I think it's fascinating that this has come up, but it has come up because now we've got all of these restricted diets, and they've seemed many of the dietze seem to work, but they usually work due to a calorie restriction, but.
You see the the meat only diet you have. I've seen the the no carb diet these the people that are on keto that have.
These really strict adherence is to Quito people that are on the Paleo diet that had these really strict and and there are many many healthy foods that are left out of the paleo diet because it is the construct of the diet and they just rigidly follow it. They earth though.
Only follow it. They're following it so straight and so strictly that can be really, really concerning.
Um, because it can shift into a disorder and it can be a disordered eating. Now I know some people who are like I like to try a bunch of dietze and super healthy fit people that go. I want to experience what people are doing, but they're not strict on a diet. They are trying a diet, they'll try another one just like try and workout.
They want to see what it does and how they feel, so I found it very, very interesting. I've never heard of that before, but piercing these things together it's pretty interesting, Greg, any other question that might be out there.
Yeah, Peter wants to know. Do you find that there's a consistent red flag that gives you a heads up to start asking those questions that you mentioned earlier? Or do you ask across the board as part of your assessment?
Awesome so I am very very tuned into Verbage and I think that that comes unfortunately from my history, but there's a lot of really cool resources out there that can help you.
Tune into that verbiage and hear what might be going on again. Things like I was good, I was bad. We when we take him clients at Clarity, Fitness people come in and we have that initial consultation about what their goals are, what they want out of their movement, out of their new Wellness routine.
An if they go on a laundry list of things that they hate about their body, that's another sign that they might need. Some added mindset support in this journey. Instead of saying you're right, I see what we could do differently with your button. Your core. Let's fix that it. Let's talk about why that's something that's a trigger point.
For you, and maybe we don't use those words. 'cause again people are very sensitive when they feel like we're tapping into their psyche. But you can definitely be like I don't see anything wrong with your body. Your body is not a bad thing. Your body is nothing that we need to beat up. If you're interested in building strength here an we can check that out when we see your muscle imbalances.
We can absolutely do that, and that's gonna help your quality of life because XYZ instead of let's just focus solely on appearance. Let's release some of that and bring it into. How does that carry over into an efficient an affective and safe movement routine to treat our bodies with respect instead of something that we have to force change upon?
Yeah, thank you for that. There's a wonderful.
Shift in the fitness industry and many and many components of it that are focusing on overall Wellness and we see that shift towards people working on mobility and people working towards stability. People still do come to us for weight loss goals.
You may not get them.
And that's just a statement of fact. You may not get those weight loss goals. What I don't want to do is I don't want to discourage people from the weight loss, but what I do wanna encourage is the health and Wellness in the fitness that goes along with the exercise routines that you're doing and exercise and diet. This is the one two punch.
The exercise in the diet and let's add sleep in there so it's very hook. So we're going to Add all of these components into your life.
To increase your fitness, your health and support other components, other Wellness. We know that movement helps with a lot of the chemicals in our brain that help to support mental health. So movement is medison exercises medison.
Your Socrates let thy food be thy medison. These are the medicines that are out there that can support you.
We can go. We can go for weight loss. I think people that have weight loss goals. It's very nice to have those when indicated.
We as personal trainers have to to be careful because we can't necessarily ensure weight loss because if people come to SCS for, I don't know two times a week and there are 168 hours in the week then who knows what's gonna happen, but we can support people and that's what we're here to do. We can support people.
Some people will get upset, maybe that they get weight loss and we want to support you in your process of weight loss. But if I have a client that comes in and they have these weight loss goals and I'm looking at them and and this bothers me too because I used to, I used to train a lot of people that were models in New York City.
And they would be sent to me by the agency to lose weight and I'm looking at these women and I'm like no.
But it's weird, right because.
It is their job and they get paid well for it. Maybe like you know somebody that gains weight to be able to play football. But if you gain weight, you're making your body healthier. In this instance, they're literally becoming less healthy to do something. Now I try not to cast judgment on that because I'm not the person going. Oh Tom Hanks when you lost all that.
Wait to go talk to Wilson on the island. Then that's super bad for you and it's super bad for Christian Bale to lose all that way. Everybody knows that super bad.
They knew it was bad for them, but they did it.
They did it for an event and left it. What I don't want is to shift people into a mindset and a lifestyle that this is who they want to be. Now I was torn. I'm going to tell you when I was working with the models, I was really torn about the situation and I said I will do my best to work to help you be.
Healthier if you lose weight. In addition to it, that is not my intent, but it is an outcome that's associated with it. But if you are to lose weight, you are not going to be less healthy for it, so I'm trying to create balance in a very unbalanced situation.
And that's still, I don't know if that's the right answer and ended up being to the point where I had, well, the the modeling agency that I was working with cut ties with me and stopped referring people because I had such a hard time telling women that were 511 and weighed 120 pounds.
That they needed to lose weight that hard time with that. It's a good gig. It's a good gig for me. While it lasted, it was not a good gig, though it was a great financially it I did it, just I couldn't. I couldn't get behind it. Had a really hard time with that.
That said, Greg any other questions out there?
Yeah, there was one other here. Let me pull it up. Peter wants to know actually, that's why I'll actually ask this one out of like 3 asking myself or if there is somebody that that that's watching that may fall into one of these categories. Abby, do you have?
One piece of advice, or or some words of encouragement that that you would like to share.
With somebody that may be faced with.
Yeah, definitely that's nice question. Thank you so so much. I would say for me the big piece that completely shifted my relationship was myself is actually plastered all over our gym. But it's the words I am enough.
An I think that if we can internalize those words, an really start to or take a step in the direction of believing that that's life changing, and I think that that so true, so valid of everyone an we can really, really get.
To that place, and it takes time. And it's not a. I've decided this is true and I'm never gonna waver from this. It comes in flux an it is there and it's not some days and it's there for some minutes and not some minutes. But if you can take steps toward believing that and start to treat yourself.
On your body like that is fact that is a game changer an that's what we believe for people whether they've struggled or not. But I just can't say enough about how much that gave me permission to release and to rest sometimes and be kinder to myself and.
Health became something that was light and friendly and welcoming, an not something that I felt embarrassed by if I wasn't doing enough or working hard enough or controlled enough or lean enough or strong enough. It was just something that felt enough an it was.
So empowering and so game changing, so that's that's a really big piece of advice for those who might be struggling. Those who are starting to slip into feeling like it is all or nothing or very tough or daunting to go to the gym or not do what they might have set out. And now that's really, really frustrating them, or breaking them down.
Um, I would love love, love to talk to anyone who might be open to reaching out. Anyone who has any questions about clients. I like to say it's not. If you've worked with someone with an eating disorder, but which client you currently have that has one it's uh, it's 30 million people in the United States alone, and that's a big chunk of the population and we don't talk about this.
Enough, there's that word, but it's really important.
That we do.
Pay attention an it could be, it could be you. It could be the person who's on the line right now that just feels so frustrated with not having achieved this weight loss goal that they set out to achieve or not. Having achieved this new PR that they wanted an.
I think that just being open to checking in and giving yourself credit and giving yourself grace because you are enough is so important for everyone. So if there's ever anytime that they anyone wants to reach out or your client might want to reach out, please let them know. I don't know. Is it appropriate for me to share my.
Email or yeah, OK, absolutely perfect. So my email is Abby, ABBYY at clarityfitness.com, an I am on my email all the time so I'm happy to respond to anything. Any questions? There are no stupid questions Anne. I'm more than happy to get you connected with some referrals of different care providers.
That might be helpful. Iadep.com is a really good resource base. There are lots of different healthcare providers on there as well as nidaan EDA. So you could definitely start there for people in your area and see if that's a helpful resource and.
I'm more than happy to be emailed before or after checking out those.
Amazing thank you so much for that. I think you are enough that you are enough. I have a friend of mine named Nick Pegs. He was a keynote speaker at my friend Jess Glazers event for women and the Entrepreneurship in New York City. And it was it was entitled you are enough. He was a it was amazing.
Speech and or keynote presentation and it kind of speaks to this and I will say this the all or nothing approach is not enough right? All we have. Nothing is not enough, it's just it's too focused one way or the other. It's it's hard to survive in that world.
Of all or nothing and and that's really like the levee breaks and I I know this with binge eating people where they try to really restrict and then they binge and they really restrict and they binge. I know it with fitness that you just can't do everything and doing small things.
Small changes.
Mean a lot and what it starts to do is small changes shift mindset and mindset is really what we're looking at here. And so I want to support everybody as much as you can. Small changes and be OK with the small changes because the big big changes in live.
Those can be really difficult to to do. It's like taking a giant pill at once. Sometimes you gotta break it down into smaller pieces and you might think, well, whatever that pill that you took is not enough and it will be.
So you gotta work your way up to it, just like exercise like anything else.
And some people with exercise get personal trainers. Some people that are having issues with with eating get support with that. And so I encourage you to consider it to think about it, to reach out to Abby and Abby. Thank you for being willing to today one be on the show for sharing your information with us and and this platform.
And then giving your contact information for anybody who may be struggling or concerned or just have questions whatever like just to reach out and and chat. So also if there is any social media that you have that you may want to share then you can do that as well.
Absolutely. My personal Instagram is Abby Griff Dotfit, so ABBYY.
GRIF dot FIT. And then our Jim pages clarity Decatur. And that's on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, LinkedIn. All the things come check us out.
I love it. Body positive fitness with clarity. Thank you so much Abby. My name is Rick Richie. You can reach out to me Rick Dot Richie RSCHEYNES m.org or on Instagram where I'm most active at Dr Dot Rick Richie. Thank you so much. This has been the NASM CPT podcast.
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Research Review: High Genetic Risk Individuals Benefit Less from Resistance Exercise Intervention
The Benefits of Personal Training With Multiple Revenue Streams
Rick Richey, MS
MS, NASM-CPT, CES, PES, MMACS, LMT, is an NASM Master Instructor who enjoys helping clients with all areas of fitness–including their shoulders.


'Tis the season for Christmas music and gifted country vocalist Tegan Marie just can't get enough of her holiday favorites.
On Dec. 19, she debuted the first of three stunning covers recorded in Nashville, TN "O Holy Night" on her Facebook page, racking up over 25K views in only three hours.
Stay tuned this week for the release of the playful Christmas songs, "Santa Baby" (Dec. 21) and "Santa Claus Is Coming to Town" (Dec. 23), also on her Facebook page.
To close out what has been an exciting 2016, the 13-year-old is already looking ahead and spent last week in Music City working on new music slated for release in 2017.
Earlier this month, the budding singer-songwriter released her original holiday single "Just Another Night," which premiered exclusively on People Country and is now available at all digital retailers.
A native of Flint, MI, Tegan released her catchy single, "Lucky Me," last spring with 100% of the proceeds going to children directly affected by the water crisis in her hometown.
She stunned listeners this summer when she released her breathtaking rendition of Florida Georgia Line's #1 smash hit "H.O.L.Y.," which garnered 17 million plus views on Facebook and led to high-profile media looks including her national morning TV debut on ABC's Good Morning America and US Weekly's "Buzzzz-o-Meter" feature.
She also caught the attention of the U.S. Women's Soccer Team who invited her to perform the national anthem at their last home game prior to the Olympics.
After debuting on the Radio Disney Country stage at the CMA Music Festival in June, Tegan has played shows with country stars Hunter Hayes, Thomas Rhett, Cam and Chris Stapleton.
Discovered by girl platform Sweety High, Tegan first shared her videos on their site when she was only 7 years old.
Her sweet, clean vocals and sensitive interpretations now have girls (and moms) across the nation clamoring for more.
Tegan has received over 60 million video views in the last 120 days with unprecedented social engagement.
For more information on Tegan Marie, visit teganmarie.com.
Reach out to her on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.


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This clarification has been written in the wake of a number of requests that have been received asking for clarification on the role of Muslim leadership in collaborating with the security services and police in counter-terrorism efforts in the UK. This document specifically analyses the political aspects of this issue and in particular the consequences that may arise from any form of cooperation.
Cageprisoners has the specific remit of dealing with human rights issues in the 'War on Terror', with a specialisation on the detention of individuals held beyond recognised systems of law. As an organisation, we now have six years of experience analysing and working on counter-terrorism issues in the UK and beyond and the impact those measures have had on the Muslim community. Based on the work that we have been carrying out, we feel that it is important to clarify the our perspective regarding cooperating with counter-terrorism forces.
Collaboration or cooperation between two entities must be based upon an agreed purpose and shared vision. The cooperation should not be carried out where the repercussions and ramifications of doing so outweigh any benefits attained – perceived or actual. Of course, if any act of unlawful violence is taking place or being actively planned in the UK, the law places upon the individual a civic and legal obligation to report it. Despite this, we hold strongly that there is no obligation to extend support to counter-terrorism forces by offering collaboration and our advice remains that there should only be contact with them in the presence of legal representation.
In our experience we must make clear that civil society, governmental bodies – at local and national level, are not homogeneous entities. Each body will have its own agenda and objective and that agenda it what must be considered when considering working with that body.
Thus working with parliamentarians to oppose a motion on extending the pre-charge period in 'Terrorist' cases from 28 days to 42 days or working with the local authority on teaching immigrant communities English literacy is not the same as cooperating with the counter-terrorist and intelligence agencies. We intend to clarify why there is a disproportionate harm in collaborating with these agencies which should preclude community leaders from doing so.
Collaboration with any counter-terrorism forces in the UK, whether it be with the security agencies or the police, will inevitably have the negative result of disenfranchising large sections of the Muslim community.
Cageprisoners was invited to give expert evidence to the International Commission of Jurists regarding the impact of counter-terrorism legislation in the UK and abroad; the result of this evidence from the organisation and others was the release of their report Assessing Damage, Urging Action – a report which clearly identifies that the UK's policies in the 'War on Terror' have weakened the rule of law and also have been used to increase fear in the general public and promote a police state.
Any alignment to the policies that are being promoted by the UK government will be seen as tacit acquiescence of those policies, especially in light of the continued unlawful and immoral detention of individuals around the UK without charge.
Some community leaders may perceive that the collaboration is only incidental to the larger strategies, however it is important for the sake of the victims and the affected Muslim community that there be full separation from engaging with the police/security services – otherwise the trust and position of community leaders will be fatally besmirched..
The official government statistics relating to the numbers of those affected by the government's counter-terrorism strategy suggest that the current situation of the Muslim community is very alarming and continues to deteriorate.
Between 11th September 2001 (the official beginning of the 'War on Terror') and 31st March 2007, there have been over 200,000 stop and searches (a profiling tool used on individuals to check if they are terrorists). Further, there have been 1228 anti-terrorism arrests that have only led to 132 people being charged and of them only 41 convictions (the convictions themselves are questionable in some cases).
Naturally, these statistics have not been updated in almost two years but both empirical and anecdotal evidence indicate that the numbers continue to snowball.
The numbers increase in importance when they are considered in light of the trauma that is experienced when the police raid the home of a suspect and storm into the home of an entire family, including women and children.
Thousands of Muslims in the UK have been traumatised by these policies and they are becoming increasingly fearful and are looking to identify with their community leaders who should be standing with them and not the abusers.
Such a damning statement from the former head of Britain's external intelligence agency indicate to what extent the counter-terrorism measures in the UK have negatively impacted the Muslim and non-Muslim communities. We have become a people who are now living in fear of what laws will be inflicted upon them in order to constrict their lives. Association with such policies will be extremely damaging to the credibility of community leaders, even those with the best of intentions.
There have been allusions by some that the counter-terrorism response of the British government to the resistance of the Irish was a mature response and one that places them in a good position to tackle the threat of Islamic extremism. Such a position is untenable and completely unfounded. In fact it serves only to insult the memory of the thousands of Irish victims of these policies. Policies such at internment, extra-judicial killings and state sanctioned torture.
British authorities have also been accused of collusion in much of the sectarian violence that plagued Northern Ireland during the Troubles. Whilst the notion of collusion is entirely different to that past conflict the very concept of some religious and community leaders colluding with the state authority today has clearly alienated many people who already feel victimised by both entities.
It is essential that those who wish to comment on issues related to counter-terrorism understand the severity of what Muslims are experiencing in the UK today. To that end, we believe it very important that they familiarise themselves with Paddy Hilliard's Suspect Community – a work of the utmost importance in analysing the impact of the Prevention of Terrorism Acts against the Irish community.
Understanding their experience and seeing the parallels will inevitably result in the conclusion that the legislation used against Muslims today is even more severe than that used against the Irish – and establishes that there is no room for collaboration with the security services. The overwhelming harm that would result from any form of collaboration would divide an already fractious Muslim community.
Professor Hillyard's seminal work could be addressing the situation of the Muslims today – replacing the word Irish with Muslim would show the parity between our situations.
"What is abundantly clear is that a person who is drawn into the criminal justice system under the PTA [Prevention of Terrorism Acts] is not a suspect in the normal sense of the word. In other words, they are not believed to be involved in or guilty of some illegal act…people are suspects primarily because they are Irish and once they are in the police station they are often labelled an Irish suspect, presumably as part of some classification system. In practice, they are being held because they belong to a suspect community. The distinction between the two different categories was succinctly put by one person in the study when he asked rhetorically: Irish suspect? or Irish suspect?
"During my first arrest at my London home on 2nd December 2003, I was subjected to physical, verbal, racial and sexual abuse by the police officers. I had nothing to hide when I was arrested so I made no attempt to struggle or resist.
Cases such as Mr Ahmad's is one of many where the British security services have been involved with the abuse of individuals at home and abroad. The counter-terrorism forces in the UK have been involved in the torture and abuse of Muslims and have even promoted it.
To contextualise engagement with the British counter-terrorism forces, it is important to understand the recent history and the difficulties that are attached to doing so.
Cageprisoners has worked in this arena for the last six years and have attempted to use a variety of strategies to prevent any harm to the victims of the 'War on Terror.' Such strategies have included pursuing all avenues of dialogue and engagement. Those avenues however, especially within the counter-terrorism forces have proven to be ones fraught with difficulties.
One of the initiatives that Cageprisoners heavily involved in was the Muslim Safety Forum. The forum would meet monthly in order to have meetings with key figures from the counter-terrorism forces in the UK and particularly the Association of the Chiefs of Police (ACPO).
The supposed purpose of these meetings was to air the grievances of the Muslim community directly to the chiefs of police so that we could work together on possible resolutions.
After 18 fruitless months participating as a member of this body, we felt compelled to resign from the forum, as we knew that the body was being manipulated to legitimise and rubber-stamp police policy. The police would regularly state publicly that they have discussed matters with the Muslim community by allowing the forum to raise concerns, however concerns relating to counter-terrorism were inevitably ignored.
Azad Ali, the former chair of the Muslim Safety Forum was recently ostracised for his political views relating to the Middle East, Sir Norman Bettison, chief constable of West Yorkshire said it was 'unlikely' that Mr Ali would be consulted again despite the years of collaboration that they had with him.
Previously organisations like the Muslim Council of Britain have found the government a fickle partner who rapidly disposes and denounces them when a more suitable vehicle comes along.
On Monday 16th February 2009, the BBC programme Panorama exposed a new strategy that would be implemented by the government, known as Contest II. This new strategy has the specific purpose of changing the discourse of counter-terrorism from one that is working against 'violent extremism', to one that is against all forms of 'extremism'.
Thus the agenda being advanced through counter-terrorism agencies will broaden in Contest II well beyond the debates surrounding violence.
It will focus on attacking established orthodox position in Islamic theology on sexual orientation and its judicial and legislative mechanisms -ushering in a new Kafkaesque era where the personal religious beliefs of an embattled minority are under assault – actively denouncing and marginalising those who refuse to tow the Governments line.
The UK counter-terrorism agencies are renowned for abandoning their collaborators once they have outlived their usefulness. One Muslim individual was assisting the UK security forces in their dialogue with Abu Qatada.
Once his outlived his value as a collaborator, he was kidnapped whilst on a business trip and sent to Guantanamo Bay. The UK security services were fully aware of the extensive assistance he had rendered to them yet abandoned him to unlawful detention at the US base.
The above case and others are detailed in the Cageprisoners report Fabricating Terrorism: British Complicity in Renditions and Torture. The research paper exposes the relationship of the British security services in the unlawful rendition and torture of British men around the world. Other cases within the report document that the security services had requested that all the men they had detained unlawfully, come and work for the British government as spies.
From our work specialising in this area, we have reached the conclusion that far from having a mature response to counter-terrorism, the UK's counter-terrorism policy is marred by a bloody history of abuse, torture and unlawful detention. Any collaboration with its security forces will hinder the efforts of those who are working to help relieve the victims of the 'War on Terror' and will cause the collaborator to be actively complicit in the abuses and damage which results.
Dame Stella Rimington (former head of MI5) said that the British security services were "no angels" but insisted they did not kill people – considering such a low benchmark she has set for the security services – are these really the kind of people that should be collaborated with in a misguided attempt to safeguard the Muslim Community?
Those not fully conversant with the complexities of counter-terrorism issues and legislation in the UK should take stances after consulting suitably informed organisations, in order to avoid inadvertently harming the work they do.
source: www.islam21c.com – Document produced by Cageprisoners.
 Cageprisoners has produced a number of reports which detail the human rights violations taking place in the UK and abroad. We have a unique position amongst the debate surrounding 'War on Terror' through the vast amount of primary source information we have collated from the victims of draconian anti-terrorism legislation.
Jazaka Allaahu Khairan Asim. This is very important advice that I hope our communities take on board. It is very interesting that this is not the first time that the British have successfully demonised a community. It seems that they are getting better at it.


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