text:
Pitiful exhibition of Premier League football incompetence
Another massive test was failed by Frank Lampard and his motley crew of Everton players as they huffed and puffed to a miserable defeat at the London Stadium.
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West Ham United 2 - 0 Everton
Another massive test was failed by Frank Lampard and his motley crew of Everton players, still unstrengthened despite the impending arrival of Arnaut Danjuma on loan, as they huffed and puffed to a miserable defeat at the London Stadium and the home of an equally challenged West Ham United side under David Moyes.
The media is swamped with testimony of a broken club in crisis, with Board and fans in civil war over who is responsible for the unerringly bad direction the club is heading in.
Ben Godfrey is a notable absence, with Lampard stating: "Ben got a small sprain in his knee in the Southampton game. He got through the match but it rules him out of this one."
And a big media play of the Everton Board and Owner Moshiri all being in attendance in the relative safety of the London Stadium.
Demarai Gray got Everton going, all in yellow, the ball punted out of play. It was cagey from the Hammers who got forward eventually, a through-ball to Paqueta overhit before that ridiculous playing out at the back by Everton almost let Antonio in.
Everton had some faltering possession that initially went nowhere, on 5 minutes they made their first venture forward over the half-way line until Iwobi's pass found a defender.
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Everton forced a turnover and actually passed it around quite well until it broke down with a questionable Iwobi handball off his chest. Calvert-Lewin almost played in Gray with a flick-on from a Pickford punt, but really it was very poor quality and ineffective scrappy ugly football for the first 10 minutes, as might be expected.
Something approaching a break through the middle ended with Mykolenko's backpass and the Yellows stuttered and stalled until Gana scooped a crossfield pass out of play.
Iwobi tried to get Mykolenko to overlap but his cross was sent behind by Zouma for the first corner that was initially cleared, then Mina mishit the recycled ball well over while claiming handball. All far too slow and unconvincing.
Everton broke down the left through Gray, Zouma putting the ball behind again but the corner was cleared. At the other end, a rare Hammers ball in almost found Antonio before Gray galloped after the long clearance but couldn't get in a clear shot.
Everton were now in the ascendancy and finally playing balls into the West Ham area but they just weren't sticking, with Calvert-Lewin's jumping still way off.
Everton went through another spell of pretty meaningless possession, as the back five honed their seriously limited inter-passing skills until Coleman finally booted one forward to see if Calvert-Lewin was still awake. What utterly facile football.
A terrible clearance by Gana gifted a free hit to Benrahma who stung Pickford's glove as the Hammers looked to have a spell of decent possession, Paqueta's shot blocked. An absolutely criminal vignette saw Gana and Onana do a dreadful me-too-you-to-me routine until Onana passes it straight to a Hammer player. Utterly pitiful.
More Hammers pressure and Bowen won West Ham,'s first corner off Tarkowski that seemed wasted but the ball came back in and Bowen scored from close range. It looked seriously offside; however, the VAR did not rule it out.
Everton were wide open for a cross to Antonio with Bowen coming in but it was put behind for another corner that was cleared. Everton tried again to advance with their ponderous plodding play, Mykolenko finally getting a cross in but then it broke down again and West Ham were instantly up the other end, Antionio crossing for Bowen to score, two Hammers outwitting four pathetic yellow statues.
Everton won a corner at the other end, Iwobi's goalbound shot deflected onto the post and behind, with Calvert-Lewin straying a fraction offside for the second phase off the ensuing corner. Calvert-Lewin for once got the best of his marker on a long ball and the cross looked like it could have been converted but it was driven out by the defender for a corner that was cleared.
And so ended another absolutely abysmal half of football from this dreadful Everton team under the increasingly incompetent Frank Lampard.
Two almost unprecedented changes at half-time from the Everton manager... but what difference would it make?
A big difference judging by the first moments, a McNeilcross going through both Calvert-Lewin and TD, before Iwobi put it back in the mix and Davies set up Gana for what should have been a killer shot… but wasn't. McNeil's next cross, however, was back to normal service – grossly overhit.
Another spell of seemingly promising Everton possession again went absolutely nowhere, but this time ending in an Everton free-kick that was swung out toward Calvert-Lewin and ultimately wasted.
More Everton possession tortuously exected until the ball was gifted to West Ham who advanced at pace – the contrast was stark. Davies and Iwobi then worked it well to lay the ball on a plate for Iwobi only he was a yard off the pace and could not convert at the far post.
Gana got into space and finally had a pop, it drifting wide. But from the corner, good work by Iwobi looked to create another real chance but Fabianski gobbled it up. However they were stretched in attack and West Ham were very very quick to get to the Everton penalty area, the danger snuffed out this time.
Davies and McNeil had made some difference, but it was only marginal, and it was still taking an age for the ball to get forward. A Gray free-kick was looped in but was more of a lottery than a cleverly constructed move. And the next one won a corner but again no-one picking the ball out to power it home.
Davies played another good forward ball that Calvert-Lewin played onto Ogbonna for another corner but they were completely impotent deliveries. Meanwhile, Emerson got loose, cut in well and fired at Pickford who pawed it up onto the bar and out for a corner and a lesson in How to send one in and cause chaos from Bowen.
Bowen then sucked in Tarkowski for a desperate foul, yellow card, and free-kick... thankfully wasted. That was until Everton gave it away again playing out from the back. Every sign now that, after a decent 20 mins, they were determined to give up a third goal.
Rice was given a fine running opportunity down the left and shot across Pickford, inches past the far post. Another great ball forward from Davies looked to play in Gray who was floored but apparently no foul by Aguerd.
McNeil's deep free-kick looped onto Mina's head and from there looped into Fabianski's hands; they really showed fewer and fewer signs of even threatening the Hammers' goal.
Iwobi's cross did not reach Calvert-Lewin and then Bowen was chasing down a long ball and it required a tremendous block from Coady to deny his hat-trick goal.
Everton resumed the general farting around that passes for possession football at Finch Farm while only threatening their own goal on each turnover to release a counter-attack. Davies again tried a strong cross but it was just cleared and turned into another West Ham attack.
The match fizzled out with a few more lame crosses that failed to reach a man in a yellow shirt and Everton still tried the utter nonsense of playing it out from the back before the ref's whistle condemned us to yet more incomprehensible misery.
West Ham Utd: Fabianski, Zouma, Aguerd, Ogbonna, Coufal, Rice, Paqueta [Y:50'] (70' Soucek), Emerson (82' Johnson), Bowen, Benrahma (82' Downes), Antonio: (72' Ings).
Subs not Used: Cresswell, Fornals, Lanzini, Areola, Kehrer,
Everton: Pickford, Coleman (46' Davies), Mina, Coady, Tarkowski [Y:67'], Mykolenko (46' McNeil), Onana, Iwobi, Gana, Gray Calvert-Lewin.
Subs not Used: Begovic, Holgate, Vinagre, Price, Gordon, Maupay, Simms.
Reader Comments (473)
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1 Posted 21/01/2023 at 14:12:42
Happy that Mina is in if he can stay fit for the duration. Not a fan of the back five with the wing backs we have available . Seems to be inviting pressure from the off rather than taking the game to West Ham. Still if we can keep it tight we can pinch one at the other end. Any win will do !
COYBLUES!
Probably the strongest side FL could start with.
Let's get behind the team, and put the off field saga where it belongs, not here on a match day.
2-1 to the blues, Ings to score for the Hammers COYB
Matthew Williams
So the man of glass starts...jeez, and Myko and Gana retain their places I see,why can't Frank use our squad more??
We've lost already...sigh
If Mina lasts the 90, we should be a decent threat in air at least. Otherwise another grey and predictable selection by John Major.
I'm with you Matthew [3], I just logged on to see the team news.
Why-oh-why does he persist with the same team more-or-less that lost at HOME to Soton?
A back 4, with Idrissa as a screen; Davies, Doucoure and Onana swamping their midfield and putting pressure on Rice, with Gray and DCL the counter attack, over the top threat.
What does Lampard, the surrender Monkey do; plays a RWB who will probably last 55-60 mins before being goosed? A back three that haven't played together this season? Still playing Myko who looks shorn of confidence (Why loan Vinagre, if you're not going to try him?) We already know that Idrissa, Iwobi and Onana doesn't work as a unit. The only thing he has done has kept the 'mercurial' Gray and a still not fit DCL upfront.
If Simms doesn't come on with more than 9 minutes left, let him go back to Sunderland...
My fervent hope, is that we win, get the 3 points, and we sack Lampard. He is a terrible, clueless, inept, demotivating, I've been in football a long time, neo-progressive (I.e. plays systems that doesn't fit his squad), careless non-entity of a coach.
COYB, UTFT
BK out, DBB out, FL&Co out!!!
James Flynn
Just saw a "Sack The Board" banner held up on NBC.
Gary [4] Someone on ToffeeTV UTube, more-or-less called this, just got Idrissa for Doucoure wrong
Lampard is, see [5]
Mark Ryan
Talk on radio that Moshiri is there today
Justin Doone
Mina or Coleman to last longer?
Both teams setup defensively. Set pieces could be key.
Cresswell off the bench for them to score against little armed, poor position Pickford.
But.. we live in hope.
Steve Cotton
10 Posted 21/01/2023 at 15:22:16
Blatant pen not given, checking the badge..
Paul Kossoff
Moshiri and Boxing day are both at West Ham, no sign of uncle Bill, he must be negotiating a transfer deal and a nice back hander.
Everton owner Farhad Moshiri and chairman Bill Kenwright are indeed at the London Stadium today.
It is Moshiri's first game watching the club in 14 months.
Chief executive Denise Barrett-Baxendale is also present with former striker Graeme Sharp,
Paul@ 11
The fat fraud is there !
Shite!
That's us done for the day!
Tony Abrahams
If ever a goal has been coming it's been here. This Everton team are a collective bunch of cowards. They have got some talented players, but they have no heart, no savvy, and no drive.
Could have been offside, and we could have had a penalty, with a different VAR referee, but come on Everton, watching us pass to nowhere, and not break sweat is soul destroying.
Simon Dalzell
Sideways and backwards and nothing up front at all. Looks like we're stuck with the 'old' DCL. Doomed.
John Wignall
2 nil
I feel like smashing the telly here, but I'm too long in the tooth for that.
Iwobi, made the mistake that cost us here last year, but when he rushed, whilst in possession in a dangerous area, even though West Ham, had 80 yards to travel, and Tarkowski should have ended up off the pitch with both the ball and a Antonio, I just knew it was going to be two nil.
Andy Crooks
Whatever happens today, and it looks bleak indeed, our last hope of survival is that Frank Lampard.
sorry, that Frank Lampard and his lamentable coaching team are sacked before the day is out. This is the worst Everton team and coach I have seen in 57 years. They have embarrassed the Blues who have followed them today. They are shameless and truly unfit to wear the shirt.
2- 0 down.
Got to go for it in the 2nd half.
Vin, Mik, Coady, Mina, Holgate.
Onana.
Gordon, Gray.
McNeil, Dom.
Go forward, fast, direct and cross, shoot, cross, head, cross, shoot, cross and more crosses.
Forget passing around and loosing the ball without threatening their goal.
Alec Gaston
All the board and owners here - there has to be a board meeting and Lampard has to go - I like the man but he is steering us into relegation - same players, same formation same result
Alan J Thompson
What a game plan! Two passes forward, one back then 2 or 3 sideways then give it to Pickford and boy did we stick to it and absolutely nobody up front,>
The defence is a shambles. Tarkowski is all over the place, is Coady actually on the pitch and Mina doesn't seem to know where he or the other two are supposed to be.
Still the hypocritical cowards known as the Board are out in force in what must be their farewell appearance!
Pathetic all around!
Ciarán McGlone
Shite.
That's really all I have to say and all this club merits.
Colin Glassar
Goodbye and god bless, Everton.
Roy Kjærstad
Half-time substitution: Dyche on for Lampard, please
Paul Birmingham
Basic errors, but for me the 1st goal was well offside, but over the last few seasons, and the last fortnight, VAR, and offside, is a farce. Everton don't get much luck in this aspect of VAR, and shit house referees.
You make your own luck, and now for the fight and belief to be shown, and no more basic errors like the 2nd goal.. Needless.
45 minutes to get a result.
Get simms on go 2 up front
Definitely agree with that Alec@23, and I also think the sale of Anthony Gordon, might also be imminent, because we have got to bring in some new players.
3-5-2, only works with decent wingbacks, and after watching and managing us last week, I honestly don't know how it has been possible for the manager to pick the same two wingbacks again.
"One very famous football club said to me two or three days ago 'whenever we have a problem we say 'what would the Everton board do because they always get it right?'"
The players aren't good enough, the coaching team isn't good enough, and that's why we're going down.
West Ham have some decent players, they won't be anywhere near the relegation zone by May.
You could argue all day about the first goal offside or not but why the fuck is Pickford glued to the line, always waiting to save a shot instead of anticipating the play.
Michael McFarlane
The worst first half of football I have seen from us in 46 years of watching.
Lampard is incompetent, surrounded by incompetent sidekicks. Tactically inept at the extreme
If he's not sacked tonight, he needs to do the decent thing and walk. Or we're going down
Pete Clarke
Tony, these players are indeed cowards although I make an exception for Seamus.
That spell of tippy tippy I don't want the ball shit belongs in a playground full of 10 year girls learning to play.
No heart at all in Iwobi, Onana and Gueye to get that ball forward so the choose to take the easy way out all of the time. Then we have our so called 5 man defense that just love to give space to the opposition.
Absolute train wreck of a club and it's sickening looking at the runts up there in the directors box watching all of their own piss poor management unfold.
We should have made big protests years ago to get rid of these pricks.
To me they were playing like they thought they where Barcelona, without the skill level.
My anniversary today and I thought I may get a performance that at least would cheer me up, but this performance makes you feel like walking in a river till your hat floats. I see more effort from my Great Grand kids building a snowman.
Why do they even bother in training with short passes and shots on goal when they cant do it in a game, it looks like we may get a new manager and the only one's fault for that is the present manager,, being screwed by the Owner and Board like the rest of them.
Two problems - firstly, all the teams at the bottom are taking points off each other, and all of them are taking points off us. Secondly, we are terrible.
Tony Hill
Bill @36, happy anniversary. There is still time for us - in this game but, more importantly, in the season.
I assume Frank will go if we lose and I assume Dyche will be offered the job. We'll still be following them whatever happens. It's become so poor that I'm fairly serene about it.
Tim Fowler
This is terrible. I do not Lampard surviving beyond the weekend. Someone must surely be able to get a tune out of this team
James Byrne
We are now officially f*cked if we lose to West Ham. How low do we go as a club.
Everton are now the benchmark in English football of how not to run a club or an academy. Every department unfit for purpose.
It's time now to offload some of our high value players and get in some attacking talent to try to avoid the drop.
Get rid of Pickford, Gordon, DCL and raise £150 million plus to try and buy our existence in the Prem.
If we go down with these high value players still at the club their value will drop significantly.
Fran Mitchell
Lampard should resign before he leaves the stadium and stay in London
Colin Malone
Carlos Corberán
Danny Baily
Tony 38, today changes nothing. We've been relegated since the defeat on Boxing Day. No point changing Lampard now, unless there's an ideal candidate ready, willing and available.
James @40, we're not finished yet, we're really not and we must not let that view take hold.
If we lose today, though, I do accept (much later than most) that Frank should go.
James 40, it's way, way too late for that. Better to keep our powder dry for the championship.
A Kevin Brock, special...
Too slow, and not enough belief. Some one take a few shots, and bring on Simms.
Last chance saloon, but no decent deliveries, and so a few pot shots now, as Everton, ain't working their keeper, and DCL, needs to take a few gambles while he is still on.
Danny @43, I'd go for Dyche. I think we have a chance with him. We must not give up with so many points still to go for.
I don;t know what the answer is. It has to be about next season now as Everton will be relegated. Look at what Vincent Kompany is doing now, after Dyche. We need vision and a plan for the next appointment.
Rick Tarleton
Surely Simms or Maupay should be thrown on for the last few minutes?
The King Clown has shown up at West Ham I assume to bestow a sacking on Frank.
Very sad as if Frank was to be sacked it should have been after the Bournemouth week of disaster. The new man would have been given some time to sort the chaos out.
Christy Ring
Cannot believe he hasn't brought on a 2nd striker, did he forget we're 2-0 down.
I think Frank would have made a good Championship manager if Ferguson would have got us relegated last season.
Bill (36)happy anniversary, so sorry you never got a decent game from our team, I hope you get a lot of comfort fro the many memories you and your wife have made over the years, best wishes, I hope things improve with your lives as well.
Tony@44, well said, and agreed.
There's just under half a season to go, but very poor today, for such a massive game, and alehouse crossing to the wrong areas, and made it too easy for West Ham.
Now the fight is on and fight and guts are needed, and to reset with the 2 week break.
Whose in charge in 2 weeks time, who knows.
Tony, we really needed to act after the Wolves match. A new manager, a full transfer window and we could have done it. Now it's just too late.
A massive loss of status, but Everton will still be here. We might even have something positive to play for in the years to come, not just the looming spectre of the drop.
We'll be back, well within a decade. This club belongs at the top table. In the meantime, we might even enjoy following the blues.
How depressingly familiar, the team goes behind, Lampard makes just 2 like-for-like subs; no change in attacking options, and absolutely the wrong system for the players we have.
As someone said above, I'm beyond frustration now; if no-one else can see how poor Lampard has been since his arrival, I despair.
Still supporting the Blues, but for the love of God, sack Lampard, and put him out of his and our misery.
Ian Bennett
Why bother with 5 at the back and two defensive midfielders when you consistently ship in 2 goals a game plus.
Frank out now ffs
Small mercies, but at least some of the other scores turned in our favour towards the end. Assuming Soton lose, and Leicester and Bournemouth only draw, then it ain;t over for us just yet.
Sadly, Lamoard gone by Monday, but no idea who can get this bunch of misfits to stop looking quite so shit and get us out of this terrible situation,
George Cumiskey
Can anyone on ToffeeWeb honestly say they've seen us play any different in any of our games, never never never have we started on the front foot.
Positives, young Tom Davies there is a player in there. Mina if he avoids injury can be our rock. DCL just lacking a little sharpness he will soon be back to his brilliant best.
It's over. Viagra couldn't raise this lot.
Cristobal Aguirre
I was too optimistic with my prediction. I said we could get 1 point out of 9 in the games against Wolves, Soton and WHU. But Everton can always surprise you. Also I predicted for today game that WHU will beat us 2-1, I thought that Onana might have scored, but I was wrong.
For the next ten games my prediction is (considered that Lampard is still here and we cannot add 23 players during this month) 0 point, 2 goals in favour (one of them an own goal) and 30 goals for the opponents.
And finally, I am sure I still will read here some fans asking for Lampard to stay.
Denis Hignett
Good bye Frank!
Arnez Desmond
I said this months ago. Frank Lampard is not a PL manager. He is clueless. He has been backed by the board. It is time to sack him and move on to someone who plays pressing attacking football. The football we see on the pitch is rubbish. Passing backwards, slow and ponderous, clueless. There is enough talent on the pitch if we play the ball forward and fast but we want to play possession football. Total rubbish. Easier to watch paint dry than watch FL's team. He is officially the worst Everton manager ever.
If you can't defend and we can NOT, go forward and attack!
Oops, to late. Maybe next time.
David Hallwood
The frustrating thing is that we've not been absolutely hammered by any team. We've threw the white flag up a few games, but no shots coming in at all angles "it was like the Alamo out there" just spineless display after spineless display
The frustrating thing is that we've not been absolutely hammered by any team. We've threw the white flag up a few games, but no shots coming in at all angles "it was like the Alamo out there" just spinless display after spineless display
Frank Lampard giving his players a final back slap and saying goodbye I think.
Little bit better in the second half but still spineless football and not one decent cross into the box. These pricks are millionaires and don't give a shit about the club or probably football in general.
Rip it up and start again.
Ray Jacques
Kiran, you drinking mate? We haven't won since October, I've had two holidays since then(mini breaks). There are no positives.
Just seen a flag. Sharp out. OMG.
Derek Knox
I'm coming to the end of my tether after supporting for nearly 60 years, we seem to be getting worse. Sorry but Lampard and the Board have all got to go to bring about change, even if that means going into the Championship to achieve that.
Ian Edwards
2-0 down in a must win game and didn't bring on a forward. Not only is he incompetent he is also a coward. Get him gone tonight.
Sean Roe
I didn't bother watching the game today as I knew the outcome. I will not watch another game while Lampard is in charge as I know the outcome!
Gavin Johnson
He has to be sacked now surely?? The tactics were there for all to see in the 1st half: Slow, ponderous, with no end product!
The only positive for me was that he took Mykolenko off. The lad is not good enough and epitomises the 'play it back' style we've become accustomed too.
We're going down with this manager. At least throw the dice and hope a new manager can offer something new tactically.
Dermot O'Brien
Ian #59, was just wondering that myself, have we won any game, or even got a draw with 5 at the back? Or three at the back, whatever the fuck it's meant to be.
Lampard is just sitting tight for his pay-off at this stage.
If us fans were offered the options of ;
i) Dyche
ii) Espirito Sancho
iii) Vitor Pereira or
iv) Chris Wilder
v) A.N. Other, Gareth Ainsworth for example
Who would you like to be in charge. Of course, you could still vote stay with Lampard(?)
Post a vote, or don't.
At least the end of the month is coming, so the mercenaries will receive their very well deserved salaries.
I thought Davies played well when he came on and McNeil looked better when bringing the ball out from our half but overall it was a poor performance and the only thing to excuse it is that we may/should have had two penalties, one in the first half from an extended arm and a tackle from behind on Gray in the second half. Other than that it looked like a team without a plan or purpose. It seems that drastic action is the only chance of change on the field while our disgusting (away) Board again made fools of themselves trusting another clubs security without being able to organize their own.
Danny @57, I don't agree with your view of our prospects this season (yet) but I very much agree with your general desire for an authentic Everton and with your overall optimism. I think all fans feel that. I, for one, am preparing to travel around to away games a bit more even at my advanced age, and if I can get tickets, if we are relegated.
Everton has been the love and the creation of those who came before us and is our love too. It will not be lost.
Bielsa, at least have a blast going down.
Simon #79 I'd have Wayne Rooney with Lee Carsley over those names
Simon @79, Wilder is an interesting one but I would firmly go with Dyche.
Barry Hesketh
I think that's our goose well and truly cooked, we have had a run of games that we thought we could get points from and we've blown each and every one of them, Leicester Bournemouth, Wolves, Southampton and today.
Fifteen points on offer, not a single point taken. It's great getting a result at Man City, but it counts for little if we can't stop those teams around us taking maximum points off us. Even five draws in those fixtures would have given us an outside chance, but as it is, we're done for, I also think that Saints and Bournemouth will go alongside us.
PATHETIC. Sideways and backwards and aimless hoofs into the box. Bye Frank. Should have gone two months ago.
Bill Fairfield
Absolutely hopeless. Just don't know what we're going to do.
Martin Mason
Sorry to say but I think I've just heard the fat lady singing. Against a tragically poor WHU, who will probably go down with us, we were tragically poor even by their standards. It was also absolutely down to poor coaching and selection, how can you blame the board for that garbage?
What about Michael Carrick, learned his trade at Utd under Fergie, has completed turned Middlesbrough from relegation candidates, into a playoff position?
Lampard has to go, hopefully we'll sell Gordon and make a few signings with a new manager before the window closes with a 2 week break, and should definitely hold off on a new contract for Iwobi.
Chris Leyland
Barry you are dead right. 5 draws in those games would have probably meant safety as we'd have 20 points now and the others would all be 2 points worse off. We actually lead at home in 2 of them too and still contrived to lose
My question is whenever I watched training videos there is a lot of short passing knowing where the teammates are yet in a game they have to look up to find someone and they are usually behind or on level with them and they seem happy to play keep ball.
Dave @ 55 Thank you for your wishes, after 62yrs we have a lot of fantastic memories, unfortunately not many of them include Everton.
As other people have said we do have some decent players, the problem is getting a manager who can use them as a team and not a bunch of individuals., that seem like they have just met. Other teams seem to play out of trouble moving forward we seem to go 2 moves forward and 5 moves backward.
They (everyone) are an embarrassment to ourselves, our history, our fans. We deserve to go down. Football owes us nothing but we've rested on our laurels for over 30 years thinking the unimaginable would never happen. Well, it's happening and we are paralysed and unable to do anything about it.
Hey Christy, I thought about Carrick, but... Realistically, would he come to the club, whilst it is in the state it is in?
He's got Boro' rocking again, and the support of the (functional) board.
I just can't see him coming here unfortunately.
Darren Hind
Loving the continued obsession with Tom Davies @62.
We are going through the darkest period in our history and this guy has nothing else on his mind. First thing and name mentioned after every single game...Whether he plays or not.
Nothing like Betty Davies eyes...For some.
I guess most Evertonians will be more worried about the clubs plight
Rob Dolby
What an underwhelming performance.
60% possession 2 shots.
Controlling the pace of the game or maybe just playing at a snails pace. Moving the ball well from defence to midfield to defence back to midfield and rinse and repeat for 94 mins.
Nothing up top at all. DCL didn't cause any issues for the west ham defenders.
Typical of the game is that with seconds remaining the center half is playing 1 twos with the goalie.
2 strikers on the bench, getting beat and no attacking subs introduced.
Tarkowski should have been subbed at half time for giving the 2nd goal away. Real poor defending at any level.
No fight, no heart, no shots, no intent, no goals. What do they do in training all week.
I am resigned to the drop now with this crew. From top to bottom the club is a mess.
I'd sooner have Mickey Rooney than Wayne Rooney. Erm erm erm. Just get rid of Lampard and see who is interested.
Are we the easiest side to play against? so predictable every week. West Ham have won 2-0 without doing anything. No threat in any of our attacks, happy to play it back and sideaways and aimless balls into the box. No urgency in anything they do and does anyone want to put a tackle in?
Sorry Frank but someone else needs to have a go.
Gordon not coming on must mean he's off. Our only hope is using the money for some quality in midfield and get some goals in the side from somewhere.
The only way I can see the fans and team coming together is if someone like Rooney comes in, which goes against the whole DoF picking his coach plan methodology but it's probably what can galvanise this group of no hopers.
Its Big Dunc time. We''ve seen all the alternatives
This is what they look like
Christine Foster
100 Posted 21/01/2023 at 17:21:44
Dawn here, about to try to get some sleep, totally dejected with that performance. No zip, backwards play at snails pace, zero threat, no creativity and poor game management.
It's hard to support. First time seen all the board and Moshiri at z game for over a year. Kenwright left on his own at the end.. suspect Lampard and Kenwright will not survive the night.
Alan McGuffog
The damage relegation will cause is incalculable. The debt of the new ground will have to be honoured but by whom ?
We shan't bounce back up after one year because of the overall state of the club...trying to offload or pay off the dross that, allegedly, turns up every day at FF to train.
So where does it lead us and what can be done ?
The club could well go bust. I realise " it's a funny old game" but would any business, failing in its objectives as badly as Everton, continue to plough on oblivious to what is happening.
It'll be impossible to do because of the expense but I'd love to see lots of heads rolling. My pet target would be to scrap the Academy. Someone please tell me what it achieves
Is there is a positive from this, the half time substitutions, which worked well, should tell us how we set up going forward in the season. Three at the back, five in the middle (two wide) and two up front. Mykolenko and Coleman offer NOTHING. they should not be the in the squad at all. They both go backwards when they get the ball and are also suspect in defense.
The wide players can be chosen from McNeil, Iwobi, Gray and Gordon. In the middle I would have Onana, Davies and Garner when fit. The ball control of Gana is dreadful. Up front, DCL and the new boy.
It's easy to nit pick and look for negatives but big picture the board are locals, the academy turns out more diamonds than De Beers, we have an England striker. We've had great times
Brent Stephens
Frank is surely getting his cards from Moshiri as we speak / post. Just a question of who is lined up to take over.
We just CANNOT play it out from defence, to build an attack. We don't have the players for that. We had 66% possession. As much as it's anti-football, it has to go long, with more support for DCL (who I think, though, has just lost whatever it was he had).
Gavin @84, very good call on Carsley - why not him on his own?
Christy @90, another good call perhaps.
This is the sort of thinking we need. All is not lost, not at all.
Come on everyone, we must honour our heritage as fans.
They are treating us with contempt. Stop buying the product. Why are there waiting list to see the worst team in the EPL.
Bringing in D.F, with Rooney as assistant manager will most probably bring in a storm of transfer request's from those lazy players who don't believe in running into position.
Eddie Dunn
Getting that draw at City has made Lampard think he can set-up and get the same result. We looked far better with the wingbacks and Davies in midfield. Our big problem is that iwobi cannot pass the ball and we have nobady with the confidence the go for goal. Lampard is so one-dimensional, he never thought to put Simms on with DCL and take off Gana.
Hopeless manager and if they don't sack him, I won't bother watching them get stuffed all the way to the championship. What's the point?
The only hope is that the owner is in the building...why else would he come?
Moshiri just said sacking Lampard wasn't his decision!!!!! Kenwright said he would never say he was sacking him. What is going on????
Kieran, I think some on here don't get your sense of irony.
Hardly fulsome support for Frank from Kenwright and Moshiri as they were interviewed just now.
Burnley fans are currently having a blast. I'm not sure we were the real winners by staying up last season.
The fightback begins in August.
It looks like Lampard won't be sacked until the fans demand it.
Don't even know what to say, so just gonna type randomly.
- I'm not even angry, I'm just sad. I feel like I've lost a loved one. Bereaved feeling. Can't be angry at them dying.
- There's no point appointing a new manager now, the bounce opportunity for next two games is ZERO. Whilst allowing Ferguson and Unsworth to go was likely right, there's not even a caretaker plan. It's like we got in the bath with the toaster. It's literally that dumb, it feels deliberate. Would Ashley Cole do it for two game knowing a new man would likely bin him? Nope. So what?? Maybe just a hiding to nothing and let Tait have two games. Or Coleman as a player manager??
- either way, Frank has to go and tonight. Play managerless if we have to. It'll make no difference. He's repeatedly tried the same failing players in the same failing system. There isn't a plan here, just an utter car crash. On repeat mode.
- The only logical move I can see is Dyche in tomorrow (and accept the next two games as irrelevant) and somehow get him 2 attacking players, 2 creative players and 2 fullbacks in the next 10 days…..but any player daft enough to come here now is only for the money or shits and giggles.
- guess the biggest question of all is whether Dyche is the man to ride out a relegation and get us straight back up again next year? Make no mistake, that is the ONLY criteria we should be selecting the next manager on. If Thelwell is staying (and let's face it, we'll be lucky if they sack Frank even now) then maybe it's Nuno Santo rather than Dyche. He's got less chance of saving us I feel, but more chance of building something to get us up.
Man. What am I typing. It's all just pointless waffle. But that's where we are. There's nothing to get hopeful about. The club is utterly broken. It's not dying, it's dead….we're just slashing the heart jolting things in the vain hope there is a way back.
Craig Walker
Just seen Moshiri and Kenwright on Sky. Bizarre exchange as they got into their cars.
Get Sean Dyche in tomorrow.
Get rid of Keane, Gordon, McNeill, Maupay and anyone else and don't sign foreign showboaters but sign players that will fight for this club and can play aggressive quick football.
I'm close to being done, now. Sick of reading TW. Checking for signings. Arguing with Evertonians. Getting hopes up and being continually let down. It's futile.
Anyone who says there are 3 worse teams is deluded. We're a laughing stock.
Raymond Fox
There has to be a change of manager I suppose if only to stop Frank going bonkers, but do you really believe its going to make our players into anything other than not very good.
We obviously cant play passing football, get two 6' 6'' lamposts and keep humping the ball into the opposition goalmouth!
15 goals in 20 games tells its own story.
Ian, that's what Moshiri meant by his not his decision comment, it's all on the fans, fucking liar, its Usmanov's decision, always was.
I think that we're finished and even the fans are readying for the worst now. You can normally say that yes we were bad but so and so were good. Today there were no so and so's.
Alls I seen in the second half,was West Ham sitting in and saying, have as much possession as you like. We're 2-0 and you lot are shite anyway.
Simon 79 - when Brighton lost their manager, did they hire any of these.
The incompetent board look at a narrow choice of players and managers.
Moyes put one of many nails in our coffin today but I'm sure he will still have a glass of Sherry in the bar with BK to share a laugh and talk about future possibilities.
So Lampard has to go but who can step in ? I think it may be a caretaker manager from within giving how hamstrung we are.
If there was a point that turned me against Lampard I would say the cup loss to Bournemouth as he had a chance to get a win and some confidence going. To follow that loss with an embarrassing defeat to them in the league should have been the wake up call to our board but hey, we all know how good they are.
If I wasn't fully accepting the drop before today well I can say I'm in total acceptance now.
Farhad Moshiri "it's not my decision" when asked about sacking Lampard.
Passing the buck to Thelwell.
Moshiri showing himself up for what he is. A vacuum.
He (and Usmanov) has/have made all the big decisions but now says it's not his decision to sack Frank. Does he mean it's Usmanov's or is he going to say the fans sack Frank as according to him the other sackings were at the behest of the fans.
The man is not just a Clown but a failed one.
We can still stay up but need the right Direction from the top. We have been a rudderless ship for far too long.
A big thank you to Michael Kenrick for sticking at not only watching another pathetic performance fro Everton but having the courage and stomach to write this report, it must have been heartbreaking and sickening for him to do both.
I couldn't honestly vent an opinion on this game but funnily I had to switch off when the pictures became distorted and all the players were moving in extra fast movements like an old Charlie Chaplin movie, the fastest we have performed for a long time but still as hopeless and useless.
Thanks again Michael you did very well today.
Peter Neilson
No chance of staying up with Frank maybe only a slight chance with someone else. Surely Bill and maybe DBB will join him? Guess it depends on what reputation Moshiri thinks he still has to retain.
Darren 99 I honestly don't think Duncan would want the job. The club is a mess.
A foreign manager will be appointed who will get the sack 12 months later.
We are a basket case.
There aren't 3 teams worse than us.
The fate of the club rests on the shoulders of a lad we are trying to get in on loan.
Ronald Christopher
Frank is out of his depth. Tactically weak. Someone else is needed immediately to keep us in the PL. Strategy should be:
1. Short term (this season) - get someone else besides FL to keep us in the PL this season.
2. Medium term (2-3 years), get competent top management to run the Club and stabilize us. Goal to stay in the PL and rebuild.
3. Long term (over 3 years), hope a new Owner steps in.
We have to regain our confidence and integrity back.
Iain Johnston
Burnley fans can do what they like. They were just as good under Dyche in the Championship.
Denis Richardson
The truly sad thing is that Lampard has been allowed to waste several games post WC against sides low down in the league. Games that could have resulted in points for us had the Board not been blind to see what every other person could, Lampard is and never was not up to scratch.
Should have been binned during the WC and the time used to bring in a new manager, who would have had some time to assess the squad and decide on changes during the Jan transfer window. As usual, Everton sticks it's collective head in the sand and hopes by some miracle doing the same thing over and over will yield a different result.
Now Lampard will be sacked, and the new manager will have barely a week of the transfer window left and have to play the league leaders in his very first game, followed by the derby in his second!
The management of this club isn't even up to amateur standard.
John Jennings
Just when you think it can't be any more surreal…..Moshiri tells a Sky reporter on live tv it isn't his decision when asked if that is the end for the manager. You simply couldn't make it up. You spineless piece of shite
Kim Vivian
I haven't read through the thread yet but people saying get rid of Lampard, get X, Y, Z in, as if they'd just pack up their existing job or alternative prospects to come here. Ok, Dyche for example, may be out of work and missing the game but he won't be struggling for corn, so why would he come here other than possibly the offer of a shed load of money which I don't believe we can offer.
Just why?
No longer is there the lure of "the project" and the resources to back it - just a new stadium which may or may not be ours in a couple of years time.
I do not see Lampard going anywhere unless a replacement is actually lined up, ready and willing to step straight in. Even Moyes - why would he come?
And I just wish there was a banner which said - "Graeme Sharpe, ex-legend. Just do the honourable thing!"
Kevin Molloy
can we not keep banging on about the stupid arse board. I couldn't;'t give a fuck about sharp or DBB or even the luvvie, we've got to act on Lampard. every hour that goes by with that fucking turnip in charge is killing us.
John Keating
Almost 70 years and I've come to this nonsense
I saw the board were there in safety mode today
Seeing that Kenwright is almost blind - apparently - seems a bit strange he'd waste his time
Moshiri's appearance will no doubt be there to pay Frank off
I love Everton. I was born and brough up there. I will always love Everton
However I will hate with a passion the fuckwits that have ruined MY football club
Moshiri doesn't believe it's his decision to make, Bill is supposedly a Chairman in name only, so who does decide whether the manager is sacked or not? No wonder the club is in a mess. I Just remembered we have a Director of Football, so perhaps he's the one to decide?
Andrew McLawrence
Having seen some Championship matches, we wouldn't even compete with the current top half. Utterly desperate but overriding feeling is one of sadness
Kieran [103] You missed off the fact that we have England's #1 GK as well! (For now)
We were relegated 3 games ago against Wolves, been a fan for 60 years but I'm not as gutted as I thought I would be, I suppose being relegated in January is better than last day of season in May like we've nearly been before, defeatist yes I'm afraid so, feels better mentally than delusional like some.
Barry Rathbone
For 3 points what famous song is Mosh considering as replacement for z cars
Hint - it includes the lyrics:
"WE'RE CAUGHT IN A TRAP I CAN'T GO ON"
The blind leading the blind.
Lampard's legacy: Dele Alli, Maupay, McNeil, Gana, Garner, Vinagre. Forever in his debt.
Peter 124, there is no chance of us staying up from here. The very idea that there's still time to retrieve the situation is fuelling the toxicity around the club.
It's time for everyone to calm down, and for the club to start preparing for the championship.
I was desperate for us to replace Lampard, right up until the Southampton match. But now it's too late to keep us up, I'd prefer it if we avoided making a new appointment on a permanent basis. If it's going to cost us to get shut of him now, then keep him on and make him deal with the mess he's gotten us into.
It's clear that Moshiri and Kenwright are opposed. What an absolute disgrace they both are, especially Kenwright.
Is this the most comically inept Board of any English top level club in history? I think so.
Frank is a decent man whose best was not good enough. I wish he would resign and go with some dignity. Either way he must go, now.
It is sadly true that you can never say the worst is over, while you can still say the worst is over.
This is the dark before dawn. We fight on.
Ian [119] Ahh, but Brighton have an owner, and a board/club with a strategy and plan. They apparently scouted De Zerbi for 18-20 months, so they knew exactly what they were getting...
They don't need to go grasping at straws, or roll the dice like we do all the time!
we are two points from safety with half a season to go??
Moshiri clearly laying the blame for all the hiring and all firing of Managers with Kenwright and the Board
Even he can't get it right
Who signed Frank ? who will sack him ?
Is he saying that Kenwright signed Benitez ????
Saw it coming a mile off. I don't know what the solution is. I don't think there is one. Any new manager inherits this squad.
Danjuma is a plus, we need another three or four that improve us. It wont happen though.
Its the same stuff every week. Said first week of the season we have nothing going forward. We still don't.
I don't like continually sacking managers but 2-0 down and only using two subs, neither of whom were strikers is bizarre to put it mildly.
Keegan quit England because he was lost tactically and Frank is the same. Nice guy, speaks well but these players need a rocket up their backsides not a nice guy.
There is still time to recover but Franks bad run has gone on too long now, and the players look beaten before they start. A change is needed now.
Robert Tressell
It's been bad before but never this bad. It's starting to look like we'll struggle to get 30 points this season - which would mean we're gone with a handful of games remaining.
Ed Prytherch
McNeil was better than Mykolenko today. Hopefully the rumours of 40M for Gordon are true. Keane has been for sale since the window opened and he is still here. We will probably have a hard time shifting Maupay.
Some of the money that we raise from selling a couple of these players will be used to pay off Lampard and crew as I can't see Moshiri putting any more money into the pot at this stage.
Peter Jones
Simon Harrison:
Dyche
I hope he quits but if he does he won't get another job so I fear he will stay on. As for the board? Pass the buck. Who decides then? Thelwell? fans? Usmanov? They're openly admitting they won't do their jobs but they refuse to leave? Are they some kind of sicko under cover RS trying to destroy us?
Sorry but get a grip
Our performances with these wasters are shite
The league table does not lie
We are doomed unless someone- anyone- can totally transform us. Any idea who?
Ian 109
Moshiri spineless.
I didn't expect him to say anything about Franks future, but that was a total spineless comment from a person not worthy of an association with our once elite club.
Kenwright not much better than Moshiri in his response to the question about Franks future.
The timing wasn't right for the question to be answered. However, hats off to Gary Cotterall for getting them to at least speak, albeit a total denial by one, and a weak/lame answer from the other.
I think Franks time is up.
But, unless the dynamic duo have already lined somebody up, who would take the job?
18 games to pull a rabbit out of the hat, is not a bad shout.
Whoever it is, give them a contract to the end of the season with a relatively attractive salary, and use the time to get the right person in ( whoever that may be) ready to start afresh next season.
Who thought Eddie Howe would work the wonders he has done at Newcastle?
Steve Cooper is another, often overlooked by the so-called know-alls, but he pulls more than rabbits out of hats.
Kenwright and Moshiri make the likes of the Ken Bates and Roman Abramovich look like saints.
Why was Moshiri there today after being absent for the last 12 months? He will be back in Monaco tomorrow afternoon, leaving Kenwright to wield the axe.
Frank doesn't deserve this, but he needs to leave (if he goes) with his head held as high as possible. Where was Uncle Harry when he took the job?
Soren Moyer
For those who are saying we should not panic as 18 games still to go, I suggest you better have a look at the remaining fixtures! We cannot even avoid defeat at home against fellow strugglers!
Our only chance of scaping the drop, against all odds, is to replace the incompetent Lampard with someone like Allardyce who has experience and a plan!
Exactly, Kevin @ 144. Danny and others, there is no logic at all to your position. We're awful but why on earth surrender now? You're giving ammunition to those who say that we are terminal moaners.
George McKane
Why should we be shocked by Moshiri's cowardly reaction - he and his Boss made money - Millions by taking advantage off a country and its people and not caring about the poverty it caused while they were on their yachts in some phoney "safe haven" - this is only a football Club - built by us - the people - do you think any of them care about the pain and harm they are causing us. They are above care -it doesn't enter their thinking - money is their God. Take yourself - your stadium - and your money away from my Club you corrupt hard hearted con merchant - Go On Get Out - Your stink is overwhelming - me - I 've watched Everton since 1958 but I will not go near your Stadium - Go Now.
Gerry Quinn
Get Big Dunc in till the end of the season - at least the right arses will get f'''ing kicked into shape - which is obviously what they need...and maybe he could run on with 15 minutes left to gee up the team, form some kind of threat and the please fans - despite his age...
Kevin 144, our next shot at points is Leeds next month, by which time we'll need more than two points to get out of the bottom three.
We are not getting six or seven wins from the remaining fixtures. It is over, and has been for weeks now. If we come to terms with that now, we can get through this with a bit of dignity.
Kunal Desai
Was there in the home end today. These players don't know there roles, they just seem poorly coached. Do they even discuss before a match who picks up who? Players just swanning about. These players are not doing anything remote for this manager.
Kenwright looks like he's cleared up the entire matchday buffett. I wish he and Moshiri get dropped kicked in the middle of the ocean. Be great to never see those two faces ever again
Hi Michael (Kenrick), is there any chance of having an open poll, whereby TW'ers can post a vote for a manager for EFC. Including keeping Lampard, if so desired?
It won't mean anything, but at least it will give a wider view of how us fans here feel about what sort of manager is required.
'Twould be great if you could something along those lines Michael.
Good wishes,
Soren @154
There's the rub, two matches against Arsenal, visits to Stamford Bridge, Anfield, Old Trafford and Brighton, not to mention Spurs and Newcastle at Goodison. Which leaves us trying to get lots of points against our fellow stragglers and we ain't done too good so far this season against such opponents. The inability to create, never mind take chances is a glaring deficiency that is going to take some fixing, and as much as I'd like to think we could overcome the odds, it just doesn't seem possible.
The potential of this club for an ambitious manager and an ambitious purchaser is vast - even if we are relegated which I don't expect us to be.
Stop fucking flopping.
George @156, absolutely right. The greedy bastards run the game and our world.
Jerome Shields
Could not watch the match got caught up in work.Was hoping for better news, but what a shambles.I think our concerns are now fully justified..Though I do not think any of us get any satisfaction that we where 100 percent right .Just seen another headline on ToffeeWeb which I have not time to read that Moshiri says that Lampard future is not his decision.Absolutely bewildering..
3 tall centre backs more goals conceded
Nothing else to say
We're going down again, we're going down again, we're going down, down, down. down, down again, etc.
Phil Lewis
There is no way Ferguson will be considered. He has put paid to his chances by criticising the board.
It seems obvious that Moshiri has put Kenwright in charge of footballing matters. Our current situation is the culmination of that.
Kenwright employs 'Yes Men' in every area of EFC. Only those who are no threat to him are employed. The man is a total incompetent narcissist.
Moshiri, or those who pull his strings need to realise at long last, that while Kenwright and Baxendale remain, there is only one direction that the club is heading, which is down and possibly out, for good.
Whoever is brought in should Lampard be dismissed, the immediate need is to part with our two most sellable assets, Gordon and Pickford. The money from the sale of those two, could potentially provide the purchase of four players capable of saving us from relegation and the financial disaster that goes with it.
Throwing the towel in, has never been an option, at Everton, and it will not start now.
But the Board, - the constant, in terms of their position in the club, they're not gonna budge soon, the manager, and the Team, must be accountable, and they need to sort out their game plans for Arsenal and then Old Nick.
It's criminal to play football and not shoot to score, today was a killer in that barely one shot on target as in most games of late, too few attempts on goal.
Too slow, and too feeble at times, take the easy options, - pass in sideways or backwards,, and no leadership on the Park. The mentality and belief, and confidence to shoot is gone.
A couple of weeks, to try and begin salvaging this season, and perhaps the future of EFC.
Mr Moshiri, Dont talk nonsense, you own the club.
Sack Frank right now, appoint someone experienced who can organise this team and motivate them.
Too much time has been wasted, it's been crystal clear to many of us that Frank Lampard is not a natural manger. He's tying but week after week it's poor decisions and a clueless team performances.
End it, it may now be too late, but at least try to fix this.
People saying Frank doesn't deserve this is unbelievable!! He's utterly clueless, incompetent and out of his depth. He's clearly wanted his payoff for months now.
Paul Tran
Well, if we really have a Director of Football, I'd say it should be his decision. And that's what Moshiri should have said, if that's the case.
Part of me thinks they're stalling because they're waiting on/don't have a replacement.
Part of me thinks they're simply full of rubbish.
All of me thinks we'll be waiting a long time for Frank to turn things around.
Whoever has the decision should make it, and make it right now.
A decent coach will get us out of this mess.
Steve Bruce. West Brom. Shite.
Carlos Corberán. West Brom. Fighting for promotion.
If those in charge are too scared to sack Frank, I will happily do it, deducting his wages from the Bournemouth cup game onwards from his pay off. I would also deduct the money he has wasted on every single player he has signed since becoming manager.
Why are people slagging off Garner? Just defies belief. Others blaming people not on pitch in weeks. You want to blame players, start with the 11 on that pitch.
At this moment, right now, in the position we are in and the spiral we are in would anyone gice a f… if we employed an Allardyce or Dyche in order to keep us up?
Neil Lawson
Like so many, I wanted Lampard to succeed. He could be a very good fit. However, I despair at his team selections and tactics and his utter stubbornness in resisting any change to spur an improvement. He is the author of his own misfortune even though he has been dealt a shitty hand. The players are so poor and make his job so much harder, but his failure, week in week out (City excepted) to get a performance out of them is unacceptable and unforgiveable. Comparing him with other newly appointed managers in the league makes this conclusion ever more stark.
There is no hope unless there is a fresh face and fresh approach to drive things forward. Problem is, who the hell is that and which of our clueless board has the nouse to identify such a person.
There is ample time to change things around and to scramble to safety but maybe a drop down a league will generate fresh focus. What a dreadful and shameful thought for a lifelong blue (60 plus years). However, my passion is bleeding away and supporting a team ( rather than the club ) who are rubbish and deserve their fate is becoming desperate.
Before posting I said to my 2 boys " Ferguson for rest of season if only to guarantee a performance each week ". Better ideas anyone that may be achievable ?. Dyche only other likely option and that hardly fills any of us with glee. Desperate of Devon suffering a dry January with need for a wet Saturday
John @174, you are 4/5 years too late with that question.
Maybe you're right, Simon, it's time for our collective wisdom to be tested.
Or I can do a Farhad and say in the tried and trusted Everton Way: "It's not my decision."
The Everton sung from now on should be the old Buddy Holly hit "I guess it dosen't matter any more".
Greg Kelly
If you have a decent centre forward ( I think we have) you need at least one winger who stays wide, gets to the bye line occasionally and provides the odd quality cross.
We have 2 potential wingers, neither stays wide and not once did we get to the bye line.
Remember Johnny Morrissey and Joe Royle? It's not rocket science but seems to be beyond our coaching staff.
I note there is a dearth of post from the experts who reckon we should play open attractive attacking football and play ourselves out of trouble. Not to get ourselves involved with managers looking for a last pay off.
Well, here we are. What do the experts suggest now and who do they suggest can get us out of it??
Peter Carpenter
It's hard to see how they can hurt us more.
On the train back.
F@ck OFF Everton!
Sack the board
Sack the manager
Sack the coaches
Sack the players
Every fucking one of them!
That Was Fucking Shocking!!
Absolutely clue less and absolutely lacking in any give a shit or pride!
Just FUCK OFF!
It's good news that sacking Frank is not Moshiri's decision. That means there must have been an agreement on governance and who has authority for what.
The question is whose decision is it? Thelwell or the Board or both. Moshiri will be consulted for sure. Irrespective - they have to act today and sack Frank.
That was the worst I ever remember and we're getting worse. West Ham are poor. Southampton are poor. As are Bournemouth and Wolves et al. BUT we're even poorer. Unbelievably bad.
A good manager could make a team that is greater than the sum of its parts. Those players are good enough to stay up - in the right hands. Frank can't do it. Enough is enough.
We need to separate
1) the immediate need for a new manager to save us from relegation, from
2) the need for structural change - which will not be immediate.
1) has to be our priority. Of course continue with a push for 2) but let's avoid the drop first.
Allardyce or Dyche? No, now we need a young manager who will eventually take us back. No more Dinosaurs. And no it isn't Frank, he is a total plonker.
Will Mabon
Benitez, it was 19 points after 15 games and we barely escaped.
Lampard was 15 after 19 games before today. We will finish on 28 - 29 points at season's end on this "form".
We have no attack, no Richarlison and better teams to face. I'm more concerned than I've ever been, including during the '90s. We were never this bad.
Don't give me all this "Frank's a nice man", he's a fucking leech. Just waiting for his pay off. Just resign you fraud, do one thing right by us.
Barry #161.
Even if we had easier remaining fixtures it would not be possible to save our skin with FL! Our only glimmer of hope is to replace him with Big Sam, once again, as he knows how to make us difficult to beat, with occasional wins here and there.
Besides, if the unthinkable happens and we go down, he knows the division and could bring us right back up!
Martin @184, I don't agree with you about Dyche but I am intrigued by the Carsley option which was suggested, I think, by Gary Johnson above.
Theorising, I'm coming to the conclusion that economically the only way to replace Frank is maybe to put him on gardening leave so we don't have to stump up the cost of his full contract term now.
It may be contractual that certain relegation means a terminated contract with no pay off (by which time it is too late of course) but at the end of the day I wouldn't be surprised if it was beyond the P&S rules to terminate his contract now, or possibly exhausting any minimal resources for player acquisitions.
If he was on gardening leave, at least his remuneration would be spread out over time and the cost of any mug brought in to replace him could be covered in the meantime.
That Sharp out, banner, is a disgrace.
Christopher Timmins
It's a long way from being over, 54 points to play for, however,we must come out of the slump sooner rather than later. If Dyche is appointed in the next day or so he will keep us up.
I've said it so, so mNy times. Paul Clement is a waste of space. Last minute decision by Frank. When Anthony Barry decided to stay at Chelsea.
Sharpe banner plus the others is spot on
Sharpe supporting this board is s disgrace
Christopher, only 10-15 of those points are available to us on the balance of probability. Well get more of them if we move Frank on, but that still won't be enough.
We should only go for Dyche if we think he's the man to lead us out of the championship.
The time to roll the dice or hit the panic button has passed. The decisions we take now will dictate our fortunes over the next decade or so. Let's make our next move a considered one.
Colin@ 190. It's a disgrace he hasn't resigned.
Christopher - will he? Didn't he win 3 games last season until he was sacked in April?
I'm with John K, Greame Sharp is a disgrace (oh but of course he's one of us). I keep saying it (I know), but when I asked Graeme a question years ago about his opinion of Moyes and our lack of goals (approx 2006), he just ignored me.
We will catch Bournemouth and Forest with Dyche in. We might even do it with Leighton in charge, unfortunately the worst of the bad option available at close to 7.00pm on another bad Saturday is the current manager.
It's incredible that we could really do with a new owner, Board, DoF, Manager and 9 or 10 new first team players and that is not even close to a small exaggeration.
But we desperately need to start with a new manager and hope that Thelwell (if it is his decision) has the balls to make the call and that they have been doing diligence on a replacement for weeks which should be the case with even a half arsed organisation (we're not even half arsed though I suppose)
Wasn't me Tony, but I like the idea too….a youthful team is the only hope of salvage. Has been for a long time…
If Frank is out the new manager has to be strong enough to hit the ground running and be an effective motivator capable of digging out those not "at it".
He needs to tell fans there are no guarantees and if the youngsters have to come in to ruffle a few feathers (Gordon, Gana, McNeil, DCL etc) that's just the way it is.
Remember these are young millionaires who really don't give a shit so the new man has to be strong from the get go and put a few noses out of joint. In that respect I can't see past Dyche and Allardyce but then again I don't play computer games so the sexy foreign names are a mystery to me.
Certainly no job for a young up and coming idealist.
Chris, look at the fixtures and do the maths. Southampton was the last chance we had of making a first of it this season and we blew it.
Like I said, if Dyche is genuinely the man with the vision to get us back to the top table then I'm all for him coming in ASAP. But if he's just a desperate hire to try and keep us up, then no thanks. I'd rather we kept our money for the summer.
If we make the right moves now we will be back in this league soon enough. Hitting the panic button now it's too late would not be the right move.
And fuck off dry January!! I'm off to get fucking comatosed!
Agree Barry 200, this is not a job for Baines or Carsley, Dyche for me with one eye on promotion next season.
Clive Rogers
Colin, I agree. I can't see the Sharp has done anything wrong. He's only been appointed to the board in an advisory capacity for one year. People are assuming that he is a Kenwright yes man but he may well be saying what he thinks and being ignored.
What did they all do down under apart from enjoy not losing every weekend?
Anyway, unless we get a manager to come in, there's little point in getting rid of Frank just yet.
I type this because I wouldn't rather watch players attempt to play football than watch Sam or Dyche anti- football. If that means we go down, well that's the risk I'm prepared to take.
Well done to Moyes.. he may not win a trophy but he knows how to win against the poor teams. Should have had him back.
Said before and will say again
Better team on the day but can't defend or ca't finish
We are fu..ed
Colin (190) and Clive (204) Graeme Sharp has been Kenwright's yes man and puppet for many years whether he was working for Everton or the media decrying the Blue Union and KEITC and agreeing with the move to Kirkby and he was well paid for doing so before he joined the Board where, I presume, he was even better paid to be a nodding dog or a modern day Judas Iscariot.
John Keating who was the better team on the day ?
Graeme Sharp has always been a bellend even when scoring goals in the eighties, came across him a few times back in the day, even then he had no time for the fans, doesn't surprise me where he is now, a sycophantic no-mark.
John Pendleton
AllarDyche* is a 'get us to BMD' appointment from a board with no credibility or vision and would be expensive and high risk.
Keeping Frank and paying over the odds or loans for any additions would be expensive and high risk.
Trust us to find the one billionaire that proves a buffoon who turns an amazing stadium into a burden before a ball is kicked.
Whoever takes us on next after Moshiri needs to pay a lot more for a less attractive proposition. The US and China don't do these deals. Perhaps Abu Dhabi do?
Jeff @ 210 agreed. I've met him. Bell-end
Pickford, Gordon, DCL, Keane, Holgate could all go this month. Some cash in for rebuild in the Championship. Apart from Pickford we wouldn't miss any of them.
Mark Murphy # 202.
Love it. Made me laugh.
Sharp has said "The fans protests are over the top". Says everything about the man.
Is he going to talk his way out of it again!?
Lampard's interview with BBC if anyone is interested.
Paul 215 he's not a man in the old fashioned sense of the phrase, if he was, he'd have resigned last week.
He's a dickhead, always was.
Soren, the only thing I want to hear from Lampard is goodbye
Pete Jeffries
Unlike some of the so called hierarchy. its us the fans who have the long term future of our club close to heart.
Its a part if our lives.
We are not in it for the money.
But if its not Moshiri then the man on the Zoom laptop meetings, namely Usmanov, holds the purse strings here and his corporate money is at stake to build the stadium and avoid the drop.
Lets face it, its up to the players at the end of the day to get the results and this lot aren't up to it by a mile, with a couple of exceptions, all are rejects with no future elsewhere.
New blood is needed asap or else
We are joint bottom without a win since October. We were 2-0 down and didn't even bring another forward on and yet it seems our fans are more bothered about Graeme Sharp. Still no Lampard out chants at the game. If we go down then the fans will have played a huge part. Going after the Board instead of the Manager is a massive own goal.
Protesting about the Board at this time is not going to get us out the bottom 3.
We are heading towards an iceberg and the fans are moaning about the owners of the ship instead of getting on to the man at the steering wheel.
If Lampard is in charge v Arsenal then this board have already decided we're going down and we're going to stick with his appointment no matter what, by next Christmas when we're 6th from bottom of the Championship they will do what needs doing now, and we will celebrate Christmas by hoping we stay in the league come May 24, this is the reality of an incompetent board, which is what we have.
Michael Boardman
Do the board have a break clause (no compo) for Lampard and his peeps if we go down?
Nick White
Saw this comment on another site. Hard to disagree.
"Hammer here,on way back from the game.I don't normally go on other clubs threads but….
My God,we have been bad all season but that Everton performance was utterly shameful. Half hearted,no game plan,shape all over the place and a complete inability to keep the ball anywhere other than across the back four.You were undoubtedly the worst PL side I've seen in a very,very long time.
I wish I could find a positive for you,but other than your manager likely getting the boot there isn't one."
Ian, if we named everyone we wanted out, we'd still be chanting now - the board is the major problem, but not saying Fat Frank isn't one either, but just choose your battles.
Ian, 220 we need rid of both, you're right though,Lampard is getting away with it from the majority of the fanbase, his puppy dog demeanour is working, he is of course useless but the fans have lost energy on the team, it's all about the board when its Lampard who should go first.
Anthony Jones
Definitely would take Dyche.
He could get them winning.
And he could even make them good to watch with time.
The darkest hour comes before dawn, is exactly how I'm feeling Andy C.
I even kept my composure, looking at those WhatsApp videos before, involving both the sickeningly, deceitful, smarmy Bill, and the clown he searched around the 24/7 clock for, for absolute donkey's years, whilst he lived the dream virtually unopposed.
"We are heading towards an iceberg and the fans are moaning about the owner of the ship instead of getting on to the man at the steering wheel."
That could be so that the owner of the ship addresses the man at the wheel and why we are heading for an iceberg.
Todays result was the death knell.
Ian @220,
Perhaps, some of us have concluded that the manager, whomever it may be, is not the root cause of our problems; however, the people who appoint those managers and sanction the signings have done far more damage than any particular manager can ever do.
If Everton do manage to survive in the Premier League this season, with or without Lampard, and it's a massive IF, the issues will remain and so it would seem will the people in charge.
I think Frank should go, even if it's only for his own sanity, but I don't believe that will achieve much more than a stay of execution for what seems the inevitable outcome for this once very proud club.
It's a pretty shit ship, so the owners need to sort the repairs otherwise it sinks.
Just two subs in a game that we were 2-0 down in says he's basically drunk in charge, so we need a new captain, new ship, provided by new owners.
Oh, and a rudder, because we clearly don't have one.
Wonder how many people on here would tell their boss to shove it up his arse?
I've met thousands of people who say they would but I can't count on one hand the number of people who actually did it,
I've met Sharpie enough times to know he is a head-down-take-the-money kind of guy. He will toe the line. But to point fingers at him for the state we are in???
He has fuck-all to do with this mess. He's only been on the board 5 minutes. He is simply taking the money – like millions and millions of people do in this country every week.
If he has any sense, he will continue to take the money. because he can't say anything which will make a blind bit of difference.
There will be no noble gesture. He will not speak up for people who will have forgotten him 10 minutes later.
Refocus; there are legitimate targets.
One thing I have difficulty with is Everton in the Championship and playing well.
IMO, this squad would get hammered in the Championship and most of the players would not be good enough to play in it. Only top of that many of the Clubs have modern setup and use modern methods. Everton is an archaic setup, with outdated methods.
When people talk about Championship standards, I do not think they know what they are talking about.
Dale Self
He's vowing to dig in.
Digging the grave, more likely. Ugly.
George McK 156,
The football club was never the reason Moshiri and Usmanov chose Everton.
I said from the start that their interest was not necessarily in building a stadium, but, by doing so, they could see £££s signs with the potential for developing the dockland area. All of it.
At that time, Usmanov was big in steel – he had big ideas but his long-time mate Putin fucked his ambitions and those of our beloved football team.
EFC has been in decline for years. The signs were there 4 years ago, when I cancelled my season ticket. Kenwright will go down in Everton Infamy and take Everton down with him.
Frank is a mere pawn in the game. He was dealt a bum hand and does not have the gumption to see his way out of the pickle he is now in. He is too proud to resign so will grind it out until one of the aforementioned has the balls to sack him.
Glimmer of hope? Perhaps we make a signing or two that will lift us out of our mediocrity and give us all hope of survival – would I bet on it??
When Sam Allardyce or Sean Dyche tried to buy players to play football, they stopped getting results and got the sack.
I've nothing against them because their football brand is exactly what a small, underdog team need to do to compete.
Whilst I understand we need a bit of that for 4 months, I couldn't accept it last time and won't again.
We need a bit of their practicality and defensive organisation along with a bit of artful attacking play that can mix it up. I don't have a practical name but always wanted Mancini as manager.
Does he have a well regarded assistant?
Moshiri has just given the most historically cryptic interview I've ever heard from an alleged owner in my entire life.
The fans not singing for the manager to be sacked is an irrelevance, unless you're an incompetent owner who is protecting an incompetent board.
Not really a style I would normally associate with Evertonians but, if something isn't done soon, then nothing is off the table, and I would expect things to get really, really murky if the untied gloves end up having to come right off.
Spot on. I cannot comprehend all this loving of Lampard at all! In my book, he HAS TO BE blamed for our performances on the pitch.
It's his job, for crying out loud! Should have been showed the door after 2 x Bournemouth fiascos!
Michael @ 232,
No doubt about it, he has an almost pathological, curious aversion to substitutes, particularly when it involves augmenting the attack.
He either knows something we don't… or doesn't know something we all do.
Stuart Sharp
Yes, we need to address the root cause, but there's also the short-term to worry about. I've tried hard to believe in Lampard. Really hard.
I hate all the endless changes, too. But at 2-0 down against a rubbish team, Lampard made no attacking subs. I just don't get it. There was nothing. What must Simms be thinking?
Colin, I'm drinking a stout with a single malt chaser sitting next to a Sussex Koppite patronising me.
He's about to realise how pissed off I am…
Who's loving Lampard? I didn't want him in the first place, but I want the Board gone. But I also want Fat Frank to go with them.
His game management today shows he's just waiting for the payoff – 2 subs out of 5 is not digging in, and his aversion to using youth, even just for a look at what they might do in a pressure situation, baffles me.
And his birds fit!!!
Michael @224.
The Board didn't fail to bring on a forward at 2-0 down in a must win game.
Mark 244,
Please tell us how it goes, most entertaining post of the day. If you chin him, could you post pics pls
I was going to write something but what can you write that hasn't all ready been said?
The people I really feel sorry for are those that travel every week to a game – home, away and abroad. And the rest of the supporters that can just manage the home games. They are the heart and soul of every club and Everton are lucky enough to have such a large following that the owner has no appreciation for.
I live in Canada and I can get an app for the Championship and will still keep watching Everton if they get relegated but I still believe they will not; hwever, it gets more difficult every game. But I will miss the standard of the Premier League games.
It is a sad state when the owner of a football club just buries his head in the sand and refuses to take any responsibility and to me that reflects on the major problem he has created since buying the club, that and turning his head away from the problems the people he employed has caused. The only thing left is if he can get a new buyer and hope a new broom sweeps clean.
I turned it off and went about my day after the second goal went in.
that it ended 2-0 signals that both teams also did the same.
2 half time subs, and that's that no introduction of Gordon, Simms, Vinagre, Price or anyone...no attempt to change the game. Suggests that Lampard just gave up.
It seems the players just gave up.
Fans should be refunded their money..Not just for this game, but for the season. Every season ticket, every purchase, should all be refunded, with travel money to boot.
the club is a disgrace.
Mark # 242 - if you need me to nip down to join in, I'll pay for the cab
Ian #245 - I totally agree, hence my posts, but the Board is the problem. If we sack Frank (and I hope we do), we'll still be chanting against the board, if we get rid of the Board, we may see some form of light at the end of the tunnel.
The photo says a lot. Frank has metamorphosed from a clean cut metrosexual to Travis Bickle.
Lampard said: "It was a strange game, we had a load of control possession wise but the killer instinct in their team was better than ours. In terms of the tactical control, we had a lot."
I thought our initial set up was poor, our back five didn't work. The wing backs Mykolenko and Coleman didn't work. All the preparation midweeks for this crunch game didn't work. A total failure. Sadly we've come to the stage now where Frank is failing miserably weekly and is waiting to be sacked and get his pay off.
Anthony Flack
I think Lamps definitely gave up
Get Sam before he goes to Cardiff
Darren (233)yes there are bigger targets who do more damage than Sharp, it's when he comes out and tells us how good he thinks DBB is at her job and how hard she works at being CEO that fans have a go at Sharp, even if he kept his mouth shut he'd still be the phoney that he is taking a position he is not qualified to do,jobsworth is what he is, slightly higher up than a scab in my opinion and you are correct there are thousands of people like him, I'm glad I was never one of them, got black listed even though I was good at my job and the bosses who hired and fired me knew that but I wouldn't eat shit.
"In terms of the tactical control, we had a lot."
In the periods when we weren't conceding, misplacing passes, losing the ball or looking like never scoring.
Football bullshit - don't you just love it.
You know things are bad when even on the live forum the biggest sound was a, sigh. People are losing the will to live (in football terms).
John Raftery
Another desperately sad day. There were many who thought just getting rid of Benitez would make us better. It didn't. Lampard was the preferred candidate among our fans. That is why he has escaped the vitriol which would normally be aimed at a manager with such a pitiful record.
Richarlison's goals and all round effort coupled with Pickford's saves saved us last season. We have not replaced Richarlison. Hardly surprisingly we look pathetic as an attacking force. That is not entirely Lampard's fault. Unless or until we bolster our attack any manager will struggle to deliver positive results.
I don't know where we go from here. While sacking Lampard and his staff seems an obvious next step, can we afford to do so financially? Who would replace him and for what salary? Is there any consensus on the best way forward at board level? Would a new manager from the firefighting brigade be welcomed by fans? Would that at best just postpone the inevitable? Or should we just prepare for what will be a brutal campaign in the Championship?
Sack Lampard, thelwell, Cole and the rest tonight. Give Dyche a 5 year contract tomorrow.
Hire Duncan Ferguson back as his number two. Bring unsy back as u23.
Retire Coleman with immediate effect, and immediately install as another number two.
Tell them three that it's old school zero tolerance for next 6 months at least and no director of football will come near them other than to sort contracts and budgets.
Bring back Branthwaite and Warrington from loans.
If we've got Danjuma signed, focus only on a new right back, left back and creative midfielder in last 10 days.
Any option to cancel Coady loan too - fcuk him off too.
Apologise to Keane, Holgate and Doucoure for how they've been treated. Put the first two ahead of the utter myths of Tarkowski and Coady, and the latter ahead of Gana and Iwobi. They are not world beaters but the table tells you they were no worse.
Unless we can manage to get the new LB and RB start next two games
Holgate Keane Mina Godfrey
Price Warrington Doucoure
Gordon DCL Danjuma
Bench: Leban, Samuels-Smith, Onana, Branthwaite, Mills, Simms, McNeil, Davies, Welsh.
Tell the rest to go on holiday and stay away. Start building for next year now.
I couldn't believe the live forum was devoid of swearing and people insulting each other. Everyone has lost the will to live. No point in even arguing about new managers or tactics because we know the inept cartel will sit on their hands as we slowly die.
Alan Corken
Moshiri and Kenwright are and have been lousy custodians of this club and even they know that. They however, have a single plan on which they are implacably focused, i.e build a new stadium, flog the club make a huge profit, fuck away off and wave their bollocks over their spondulicks.
The problem is if we get relegated then their wet dream will be shattered. This problem is added to by the inconvenience that they cannot afford to sack their latest crap manager because they have blown the float on an over abundance of other shite appointments and signings.
Hence the drivel they talked tonight. They are in a hole with no way out, so they can only burble, dribble and ramble.
Not sure if you read ToffeeWeb much but there have been a number of posts criticizing other targets. Sharp drew attention to himself by going to the press and got a little rebuke for piping up. Obviously Carlo Fantastico in your mind is the primary villain and Dunc the savior but some posters like to mix it up a bit and not regurgitate the same criticisms constantly. I know you're going to say "the stench of hypocrisy from the man who blames Davies for getting four managers sacked." Save yourself the trouble. Mosh Kenshite DBB the players are all shite. Frank needs sacking, Sharp is a knob and just for you, Davies is useless too 😉
My outpouring of bile against Sharp was him saying the fans have gone OTT, just that, I know he has no influence on the team, but he doesn't get off scott free with comments like that, the gobine.
Everton is the biggest short in the market.
Could we not have just carried on spending and taken the points hit? It's not like they ever carry them through anyway unless you are Juventus. Plus, if we signed some half-decent high profile players, we could take the points deduction oh I see a flaw in that Tosun, Walcott, Kalassen etc. etc. plan
These stats speak volumes about Lampardball:
Southampton, 1 win in 9 PL games: vs Everton
West Ham, 1 win in 8 PL games: vs Everton
Bournemouth, 1 win in 11 PL games: vs Everton (also beat Everton in EFL Cup)
Wolves, 2 wins in 9 PL games: 1 vs Everton (&West Ham)
Leicester, 2 wins in 8 PL games: 1 vs Everton (&West Ham)
Laurie Hartley
Paul Tran # 170 - I've only got down as far as your post but it made me realise - we haven't got anyone capable of making a decision. If we had Frank Lampard would have been gone before the World Cup.
We need new ownership badly.
Kieran, many have given up the ghost. Like me, they don't have the energy to keep on beating a dead horse and that is exactly what we are, a dead fucking nag.
Trevor Peers
Moshiri's 'its not my decision' comment must rank as the most nefarious abdication of responsibility in this club's or any other club's history. His blind loyalty to Kenwright must also be ranked as gross negligence.
Having just witnessed the total capitulation of his own football team he's proved how totally out of touch with reality he is by uttering such an idiotic comment. He owns 95% of the club so why spout such nonsense. How can it not be his decision ?
Little wonder he's guided the club into a death spiral with no hope of a way out, he's spent up and should admit it, we're skint and relegation is a certainty. What's not so certain is what comes after relegation. With Moshiri at the helm things could get even worse, we could go bust under this guys incompetence.
Ian - ouch.
Trevor 267 - I think many people have your reaction to Moshiri's comments but I also think that's because people assume he means its Kenwright or Thelwells decision.
I personally believe he may have said that because ultimately its Usmanov's decision. It's pretty obvious Usmanov's money is behind Everton and I'm still amazed we've not been picked out to be sold like Chelsea. Seems like an open secret that the Premier League are happy to ignore (and the UK Government for that matter).
Where exactly Usmanov is right now is anyones guess, probably on his massive Yacht in Turkey.
Trevor 267, its not his decision because he doesn't own the club, Usmanov does.
This is him relinquishing ownership after the last week's shitshow, not me guv!
The boards decision "not my decision solely" is what he means
Not always a big fan of football stats, but those one really do support the nagging feeling that we are the worst team in the league right now. Surely to God the manager can't survive this?
Moshiri's comment that Lampard's future is not his decision was in response to a direct question. Presumably, legally it takes a decision of the Board to sack the manager. Moshiri didn't want to say otherwise. But ultimately it is the owners say that counts. Whether that's Moshiri or Usmanov who knows ? The fans will be blamed anyway.
Being reported on the BBC that the fans are behind Lampard FFS!!
Have we got a death wish? Surely, anyone that understands football knows he is out of his depth and has to go.
The ownership and Board being incompetent does not change that fact.
I would rather do not have a manager than Lampard.
Just looking at the stats, if Lampard fails to win any of the next three games he'll overtake Mike Walker as worst Everton manager since the Premier League was formed 30 years ago.
I hope his imminent sacking will save him from that accolade...
Soren @239, where is the loving of Lampard on this thread? Ian Edwards, while the rest of us have been moaning about the board and haven't noticed our poor form, poor tactics and poor coach, what have you been doing all this time to bring about his removal? Apart, that is, from stating the obvious.
Anyway, share what you've been up to and what it has achieved and I swear I will back you all the way. I have accepted mediocrity and you clearly haven't. So how have you demonstrated your non acceptance and how has the club responded?
We've all had it, Ian, most of us have wanted Lampard gone for some time.
Denis 276, if Lampard had any integrity and intelligence he would resign, he could walk away with the turmoil of the club as his excuse, maybe still get another job, to be sacked is embarrassing and another massive stain on his career.
Does anyone remember the gypsy curse on Maine Road? Apparently (?) it was lifted in 1998. Reckon someone has cursed us - it's literally unbelievable what's happened to this football club (and always had). Won the league before both World Wars, Heysel ban, 1986 non-double season injury to Southall, add to that the ridiculous number of decisions especially against the shite that have gone against us (name those went for us!) it's truly remarkable. So if anyone is mates with some gypsy curse lifter get them down to GP to lift the curse(s).
David Currie
Pat 213,
Coady, Tarkowski, McNeil, Gueye and Mykolenko could all go this month.
We wouldn't miss any of them!
We are hopeless in both boxes.
Just got home.
I'm banned.
The cnuts the brother of the guy who runs the bar!
Apparantly calling someone a glory hunting twat is enough to threaten police intervention in West Sussex.
KAGS!
How much proof is out there about the curse of Main Rd, Nick? I'm convinced Everton, have been cursed since Bill Kenwright, got his cynical lying nepotism, into the inside Goodison, and not just when playing at Goodison, either.
Conor McCourt
Ian@220-
You seem to get derided on here by many posters but you are totally spot on about our predicament and this obsession with Kenwright, Moshiri and the board is becoming detrimental to our survival. This useless fucker has been allowed to stay in situ because fans have directed their ire elsewhere.
It is my belief Ian that because so many of our fan base were so poor judges who insisted upon a manager who never had the credentials to ever be considered even a candidate, who got his previous failed role based on his "one of our own" legendary status that they are too stubborn or consumed with pride to realise a case of the emperors new clothes.
Danny Bailly- many agree with you that Lampard should have been replaced before the World Cup so I hope your happy now that someone has credited you with the "I told you so" you have been desperate to get for weeks. Now would you please stop this fucking insessant bullshit you are continually promoting that we are already relegated. Thank God you don't play for us as who would want you have their back in a crisis with that lie down attitude. If Ian or Darren came out with that lily livered shite they'd be crucified on here.
If we appoint Hassenhuttle tomorrow I'd be confident we would stay up especially if Danjuma and Dembele follow.
Gary 257,
The back 4 that you suggest was the one that I had down for today's game. Lampard should be dropping players and giving others a chance, think the only reason why he has not yet dropped Coady and Tarkowski is because they were his signings. Those 2 are not better than Keane and Mina!
We've never been the same, since that Black Cat ran across Goodison in February 2019.
Black cats are meant to be good luck - right?
Well, try telling that to Everton, whose home Premier League defeat by Wolves was held up for several minutes by a feline pitch invader at Goodison Park.
Final Score reporter John Acres filled nearly two minutes of prime-time television with his superb commentary of the cat's movement across the Wolves penalty area, including the descriptive "it looks like a fully grown... cat. He drops a shoulder, jinks one way, goes another" and "the steward's after the cat, but the cat knows it and puts in a turn of pace..."
Eventually play was able to resume - with referee Lee Mason adding seven minutes of injury time at the end of the game
Despite his side's fine win, Wolves boss Nuno Espirito Santo was not happy with the four-legged interloper. For, although in the UK black cats are often associated with bringing good fortune, across most of Europe it's traditionally been the opposite.
"Where I come from in Portugal, the black cat is bad luck so I never want to see cats again," the Wolves boss explained.
Can you just clarify Nuno? "I don't like black cats."
If you where in Moshri shoes.
Spent over 500 million on players.
Brought in a world class manager. Ancelotti.
Building a stadium, second to none, to the envy of the Manu's and the shite.
I wanted Lampard.
I wanted Koeman.
I wanted Silva.
I wanted Ancelotti. What coup.
He delivered.
So let's not get sidelined on, sack the board banners.
Silva and Koeman, never had us in this situation. They went, because we wanted Europe yesterday, with all of Usmanov riches.
I still want Lampard out. I believe we have the talent, to get us out of this mess. with a decent coach. Decent? yes. Not a Novice, Lampard and a loser, Clement.
No idea Tony but I used to hear City fans I knew talking about it. Was always intrigued. Anyway, I had a look online and found this:
https://forums.bluemoon-mcfc.co.uk/threads/gypsy-curse-on-maine-road.182130/
Brilliant Barry @285. I'll happily chip in to the Papa Lazarou fund to get the curse lifted.
You're my wife now.
Colin 286, you're spot on about the board. Quite why they've been the focus of fans attention has been a mystery to me. But we're an old fashioned club, and nothing is more old fashioned than blaming the chairman.
Conor, I agree that we can stay up. A tune can be got from this squad and Frank Lampard is patently not the man to do it. However I disagree that focus on the board has diverted attention away. Supporters have got behind a coach who was clearly going nowhere and, God help us, might still be staying.
What happens if he stays, Conor, should he be booed to the dug out against Arsenal? It's just fucking gut wrenching but our survival depends on this shit board making a the right decision. Our best is better than at least three other teams. A new coach will save us.
Tom Bowers
Everything that needs to be said has been said over the last few awful months.
The time for action is now and without it we are down fore sure.
One player just brought in but that's not enough.
What we have in the squad at the moment is a useless bunch who are getting good money in return for nothing and nobody in the boardroom seems to give a toss.
Lampard also has to take stick as he has been unable to get this team to play as a unit. They are basically all over the shop when they don't have possession and that is against all opposition.
It's been awful to watch and has not changed from one game to the next.
Sad to say they are the worst team in the Prem. and have been for a while and probably poorer than quite a few Championship clubs.
Next game Arsenal--God help us.
Rob Halligan
I've just got home, after a gruelling 4.5 hour coach journey. I've not looked back at any of the posts on here, but I can well imagine how much shit has been posted, but I will say one thing, the better team definitely lost there today. We outplayed West Ham in terms of possession and football, but yet again, our lack of any goal scoring threat let us down. We totally dominated that first half for at least 20 - 25 minutes, albeit without any threat to their goal, then bang, bang, it's 2-0, courtesy of two terrible errors by us. West Ham didn't create anything, apart from late in the game, we simply gave them the two goals. West Ham were absolutely awful, and any other team in that division would have beaten them today. We look doomed, I have to say, but the way West Ham fans were celebrating, you'd think they'd won the league, but rest assured, they will be right down there, staring relegation in the face.
Where do we go from here, I don't know? Moshiri saying it's not his decision to sack Lampard, well who's decision is it? I keep hearing from people today that we cant afford to sack Lampard and his backroom staff, because it will cost too much………FFS we're looking at about £6M -£7M, can't we even afford that? I've always been on the side of keeping Frank, but it seems he's simply not up to the job. Moshiri was there today, his first game in fifteen months, and I can only assume he was there for one thing and one thing only.
I will never give up until it's mathematically done and dusted. We are still in this, no matter what anyone says on here, and quite frankly, I don't give a toss what anyone says.
Are some people on here seriously exonerating Kenwright for this mess? Seriously?
Nick 293. Kenwright doesnt decide tactics that has us in the bottom 3. Neither does Sharp or Barrett Baxendale.
Barry, I had a look feline, sorry online, and you're correct, we're fucked, that black cat has used up all our luck, not that we've ever had any since that ref v Watford gave us the Gray goal instead of a non existent foul on Sherwood!
Ian you're an absolute cretin of a broken record. I agree Lampard is crap but this is purely the culmination of years and years of mismanagement, hubris and misplaced arrogance of Everton Football Club's Board. Which began long before Moshiri was conned into shelling out his skeckles. Do you think we actually ended up in this position because of Frank Lampard? And then what happens next year? And the year after….
For fucks sake, honestly I fucking swear half this problem has been created by the fucking stupid and I mean literally STUPID fucking fan base that has let this go on, unfettered and unchecked for years and years. You are as much to blame as Kenwright. You complete and utter fuckwit.
Lampard's, definitely The Board and probably Moshiri's Ephitath should be.
'Should've gone after Bournemouth'
There should be new feet under the Managers desk by late Monday afternoon. If not, it confirms what we've all suspected.
A) They're all even dafter than we thought - and if that wasn't enough
B) More of a worry, we can't even afford to pay them off.
Rob, I really admire your dedication I really do, but sometimes delusion overtakes reality, you cannot dominate a first half for 22.5 minutes, it's only a quarter of the game and then to go on and lose two goals in that same half is criminal, Fabianski made 1 save in the whole game, thats not any kind of domination, that's relegation form, sorry pal but we're fucked, and I get your last line, because you're the lifeblood of this club and most of us are just fluff.
Shane Corcoran
The boys are meeting up for a chat anyway.
The best thing you could do tonight Nick, is to stop replying to the repetitive rent free squatter.
He's been sacked, apparently
Rob, Agree with your views on the game, we are doomed because we are useless in both boxes.
We all know we need attackers but Coady and Tarkowski need to be dropped and lets go with Mina and Keane. Lets give Holgate and Godfrey a chance as the full backs.
David @ 284 - if you can play shite and keep your place, you are a favourite. If a manager has favourites a squad has division. If a squad has division, a cancer has already set in,
Play shite = dropped until your replacement plays shite. Then you get a go of redemption. Don't take it = eventually you don't get another go. It's not rocket science.
"After Everton's 2-0 defeat at West Ham this afternoon, Farhad Moshiri and the clubs board are to meet to consider Frank Lampard's future".
Must be imminent because they can't come to any other conclusion?
Brendan McLaughlin
Paul #301
Please God...source?
Lol Tony. Honestly though I'd give everything I have for Everton and you lot and all it's amazing fans. I learned that from my old man RIP. All I want is the best for us all. But the intransigence and ignorance…. it upsets me so much. We have to believe in what this is, why it's here and what it represents and that doesn't mean being controlled by one greedy selfish lying bastard for years and years. I can't believe scousers - who see through most things - have been duped by this fucking charlatan for so fucking long.
Gonna watch the Liam Smith fight now.
We all say please God he's gone - do they have a contingency plan and someone lined up? No fucking way. Prove me wrong, Kenwright
Paul Joyce reporting that he will be sacked. Most reliable source yet.
If he's gone, he's gone four weeks too late, and too late for anything good to come of it this season.
I'm hoping for an interim appointment, or someone with next season in mind.
Jeff, # 298. I also thought we dominated large parts of the second half, but again with no threat on their goal. The game was as good as over by half time, after all, when was the last time we managed to overcome a 2 goal deficit at half time? Oh yeah, that game against palace last season, but that was with Richarlison in our line up, against a palace team who had nothing to play for. West Ham simply sat back and soaked up what little threat we had.
Paul -source?
Ernie Baywood
Nothing worth saying about the performance and plight really. We'd like to change manager, players, board and owner. Basically we couldn't be more screwed. I'm saddened.
On the game, did they ever manage to explain the handball penalty decision? We got two replays from the same poor angle but it looked nailed on to me. Or was it one of those sleeve line decisions?
From his Twitter. He literally just tweeted it.
I find it extremely difficult to comprehend the barrage of criticism being levelled at Frank Lampard and the attributing to him of the blame for our current precarious position.
I understand that his critics are frustrated and worried over the future of the club; most loyal Evertonians are too. However, I don't remember those who now describe Frank as out of his depth, not up to the job and incompetent etc etc using the same descriptions when, against the odds last season, he managed to stave off relegation when his predecessor had brought the club to it's knees.
Frank inherited a desperate situation when he was appointed last year and the signings that had been made prior to his arrival were, for the most part, just not remotely of the required standard. Criticism has been made of the signings since his appointment yet there is actually no evidence whatsoever that those who came in were his choices. It is perfectly feasible and indeed may well have been the case that Frank identified the positions that needed strengthening and the current Director of Football made the final decision as to those who were actually brought in.
Frank's pedigree as a player cannot be sensibly criticised although I'm not sure that the same applies to Thelwell's career at Winsford and Northwich. Whilst I accept that a very accomplished player doesn't necessarily make a great manager I think it's more likely to be the case than one who spent the majority of his playing career in non league football and latterly, whilst Director of Football at Wolves, whose name was hardly a byword for footballing knowledge and excellence. If any dismissals take place, a good starting point would be the Director of Football and then to give Frank totally free hand.
My own view is that Frank, in the main, inherited a can of worms in terms of the playing squad, notable exceptions being Seamus Coleman and Jordan Pickford. He managed, in very difficult circumstances, to turn things around and for that I, for one, am extremely appreciative.
There are still eighteen games left and even against the top teams I would never write our chances off. Whilst the cash and time available for bringing players in is presently very limited surely the disposal of some of the current deadwood, McNeil, Holgate, Doucoure and Maupay, plus the wildly overrated Gordon to name just a few, along with Pickford who by all accounts wants away, would provide Frank with a fair amount of funding to sign a couple of extremely decent young strikers and a replacement keeper? Crucially too the recalling of both Jarrad Branthwaite along with Joao Virginia from their loan moves would provide more defensive options.
Frank has my full support; sacking yet another manager is no answer to the current problems on or off the field. The foundations of the present malaise at the club were laid long before Frank Lampard was appointed and more recently the problems have been exacerbated by the appointment of three, hopelessly out of their depth, clueless Directors of Football.
Lampard has to go and I backed him, but I personally have enough of you Ian Edwards, Ancelotti wasn't good enough in your opinion, as is Lampard, but to completely ignore the biggest problem Kenwright andthe board, are you really an Everton fan?
Lampard is arguably the best manager we've had in the last year but reports that he has been sacked. What odds Ian and Darren will be demanding his replacement is sacked by half time v Arsenal?
That said we need someone in who can get something out of these even a few goals from set pieces if we can't create from open play
I do think that we had more possession second half because Moyes decided to close the game and made subs accordingly. They (Hammers) just played on the break and Ogbonna won everything in the air. They knew we were impotent.
As soon as Bowen and Benhrama ran at us, we looked lost. The defence is very poor.
Still, I hope that Lampard will be gone very soon because he was hopeless and never goign to turn it around. The next guy might struggle too but I expect some variation, better tactics and some shots.
Mike Doyle
Rob 310] While everyone accepts the owner and puppet board are responsible for the mess, do you get the feeling the travelling blues have decided FL's time is up too?
I'm not sure if this has been made official yet Paul, but looking at a WhatsApp video, before today's game, I personally think it's possible that Lampard had already been told that it was his last game.
Everton fans approach him in the hotel or somewhere similar, and because of the shite that happened last week, some people were saying Lampard looked scared. I disagreed, I thought he just looked very emotional, because he has now got genuine affection for Evertonians, and has known he hasn't done enough to remain Everton's manager, and I think this will be really hurting right now?
He's already been kept way to long by the incompetence of the board, and even if there's more to it, it begins with the incompetence of the board.
My guess is Anthony Gordon, will also leave, because it's the only way a new manager will be given any money. We will see?
And finally, Everton Football Club, would like to welcome our new manager into Goodison Pk today, but because it's a high risk game, the people who appointed him have stayed at home. Pause for a second……because this is what we have become.
Twutter is full of it(sacked).
Eddie agreed, Moyes knew at 2-0 HT the game was won, just needed to keep us at arm's length, could have been 4 at the end, Rice missed a sitter and Pickford touched one onto the bar, we had one potshot from Gueye, pathetic.. thanks Frank., just do one if you've got any self respect.
We are joint bottom and haven't won since October but I can't be an Everton fan for pointing this out according to Christy Ring. Posted similar last week.
Mike # 318. It's crazy, but I've never heard one fan at away games blaming Lampard for our predicament. In fact I've never heard Lampards name at all. It's the same at home games, although I can only vouch for those that sit around me in the upper Gwladys.
Just watched motd. We didn't look that bad over 8 mins.
The Paul Joyce twitter post was a fake account btw.
Whoever came up with the phrase Please God needs sacking too. I thought it was only used on this side of the Irish Sea. Sounds like a five year old saying their prayers.
Les Callan
Total dereliction of duty not sacking Lampard after the Bournemouth debacle. I despair.
If he wasn't sacked tonight with all the board in that there London then he is getting sacked at all, the club is resigned to relegation and hope Lampard can get us out of the Championship, he won't, he will take us down to league 1, where he belongs.
Odds per Betfair on 20 January:
Sean Dyche: 2-1
David Moyes: 3-1
Wayne Rooney: 5-1
Sam Allardyce: 10-1
Roberto Martinez, Nuno Espirito Santo: 12-1
Marcelo Bielsa, Duncan Ferguson, Graham Potter, Carlos Corberan: 16-1
Ange Postecoglou, Brendan Rodgers: 20-1
Christy didn't call you a redshite,Ian, though no doubt you would
welcome the chance to draw the moderators attention to it. I suspect that he is bored with you stating the obvious every day on every thread like only you can see it. One of these days you'll remind us it gets dark at night.
God almighty, Ian, "pointing out" that we haven't won since October isn't worth boasting about.
Surely Dyche is the only realistic target?
Which means we'll get someone else.
Liam Smith. Brilliant
Andy @277,
I meant on social media my friend. Everyone are feeling sorry for the guy! Only a few asking for his dismissal.
Lee 327, I think it was fair to give him the Wolves game. And where were the calls for him to go after that? They were few and far between.
Roman Sidey
Gary Johnson, I really hope for your own well-being that these two sentences were sarcasm:
"Hire Duncan Ferguson back as his number two. Bring unsy back as u23.
Retire Coleman with immediate effect, and immediately install as another number two."
On that match, the plauers looked like they haven't trained. The first touch was atrocious, passes were slow, short & rarely on target, and there was barely any movement off the ball. Either the players have stopped playing for Lampard, or he's stopped coaching them.
The funny thing about these threads is supporters rightly criticise the board/owner for not having any imagination when it comes to hiring managers, yet the only names you see mentioned by fans are Sam, Dyche, Moyes, Ferguson, and a list of former players who have little to now management experience.
One poster even suggested Baines!!! Can you actually imagine his team chats? The players wouldn't be as lethargic as they are now cos they'd all be asleep in the dressiny room.
Ian.#322 What did I post similar last week? You constantly post anti Lampard and the same when Ancelotti was manager, but not to ever question the board? Unbelievable
Ian Linn
Difficult to see any alternative other than getting rid of Frank. Sorry mate, I think you're a nice bloke but you're just not good enough. The multi million pound pay off should soften the blow.
Reading about the black cat incident as starting this whole shit off, I'd say this iteration of garbage goes back 5 more years.
Early 2014 we were on track to finish top 4. Then, for some reason, someone at the club decided we needed Duncan Ferguson as a 1st team coach and we slipped to 5th, then 11th for the next few years.
August 23, 2014, 2nd match of the season. We were 2-0 up against Arsenal with 7 mins left. Let in 2 late goals to lose 2 points. A week later it was 3-6 at home to Chelsea due to the players dropping their heads after the previous week's crap.
In my opinion, even though this was pre-Moshiri, I whole-heartedly believe these two events were the biggest contributors in the past decade that have caused the most carnage.
Bill Watson
Lots of possession over the 95 minutes but not a single shot on target and just a couple off target.
We're now losing against the sides around us and relegation is inevitable unless a change is made, and made now.
Being realistic... we need plenty of things that we're not going to get.
Has anyone been in touch with Myra's owner to see if we can get the dog back?
Some people have inferiority complexes so they don't like people who are successful, smarter or better looking. They'd rather champion failures
Lol. Anyone seen this clip? Someone has taken the "good times" banter to a new level.
Allan Board
My, what an absolute shit show this all is. I must say I am struggling to remember such a poor side as this Everton team. The players are clearly not giving 100% – the basics of hard work and unity are missing. It seems like it is all too much for them.
This team won't suddenly start winning 3 or 4 games on the trot. Yes, blame Lampard all you like – and he is culpable – but how many times have Everton been in this situation in the last 10 years?
Dozens and dozens of players of all age, type and price have been tried, several managers of all types, including one of the finest ever, have been tried and ultimately failed.
The blame game toward managers and players is relentless.
However, there is one common factor in all of the above – a Chairman led board who have overseen, hired, fired and decided on the ultimate direction of Everton FC – and failed catastrophically.
Inept, outdated, old fashioned, pretentious, presumptuous and as shown this last fortnight, arrogant, spiteful, disrespectful and disloyal.
Hire whatever managers you like but the real culprits have always been in the boardroom. There will never be continuity and success at Everton until the crew of Kenwright are removed once and for all.
Ernie 340, seriously, who the fuck calls their dog Myra?
Not someone to get back in touch with.
Jeff @ 344,
Good point, who would take their dog for a 'quiet walk on a matchday' when there was so much publicity beforehand about the united and peaceful support for the Team.
Unless they wanted their own 15 minutes of fame, not to mention the oddly named Dog (bitch ?)
Zack Yusof
Sean Dyche?!!! Big fucking Sam?!! After the shit show that we've had to endure over the last few seasons, these are the kind of candidates that some of us want for the club?!!
Villa got Emery, Wolves got Lopetegui and Brighton got Di Zerbi — the best we can come up are those two aforementioned dinosaurs which no other clubs in their right minds would ever contemplate hiring?!
What, have we now sunk so low that any old clueless chancer will do as long as they are English because they may well "get us" like Lampard does? No wonder we are in the mess we are in. Sometimes supporters really do get the club they deserve.
Sorry for the missing words and slightly scrambled grammar. Typing fast in a post match, Everton -induced rage will do that to anyone. The point is, from Ancelotti to Dyche in a few horrible seasons? We can, should and must demand more of ourselves as a club imo.
Another grim day and we seem to have hit stalemate.
A team we could call toothless, but it would be an insult to dentures.
A transfer budget where we can only sign players on the 'never never, for players who are 'never were, never will be.'
A manager who needs sacking, but no-one thinks its their job to do it.
A shit board who are still trying to shift the blame to the fans (interesting customer strategy).
An owner looking for an out.
Fans who can't even summon the energy to get upset any more.
Dyche and Allardyce lauded as savours!
Something has to give this week, as we can't carry on like this.
I see Sharps's name has come up on this thread. Imo, Graeme Sharp did himself no favours giving his tuppence worth to the press about the protests, praising Barrett-Baxendale and what she does on the board.
I would have preferred Sharpey to state what he actually does on the board except be a token member and a ventriloquist dummy for whatever Bullshit Bill wants putting out there.
We could do with someone like big Nev on the board. Someone who'd never toe the line and would always do the best for the fans.
John Bourne
When Koeman became Everton manager, I remember trying to wind up a young lad who is a season ticket holder at Mordor, at the time we had signed a number of players, which made me hopeful that we were finally making progress as a club.
The young lad turned to me and said "Yes, John, but all the players you have just signed are crap!"
To be honest, I was quite shocked, but history tells me that he was right. We have learned nothing as a club, with the inevitable consequences unfolding before our very eyes.
You did not surprise me when you said you spoke out against management.
I too was blacklisted.
Like thousands of others in the late seventies and eighties, I ended up leaving the city to find work, otherwise I wouldnt have been able to support my family.
It was always a very rewarding feeling standing up for yourself and it was nice to feel the respect of fellow workers...But once you were out. You were on your own. A lesson which took me personally, far too long to learn.
I used to see Sharpie setting up with his colleague (cant remember his name) before virtually every away game. They always did it from a boozer and they always tried to be out before the crowds arrived. He was no extrovert thats for sure. He clearly didnt enjoy it when dozens of fans would approach every week to talk about "That" goal
He has a choice here Dave. He's in his sixties. He can earn what he can while he can, or he can shout "They're all c**ts" and be out on his ear.
If he does the latter. He will walk away with the admiration of others ringing in his ears. That admiration will not last five minutes. He will be forgotten (as a director) and no other club will touch such a disloyal twat.
Graeme Sharp is just another person doing what his boss pays him to do. His appointment hasnt made a blind bit of difference and his departure will not make a blind bit of difference either.
Like many others, he is a symptom rather than the cause.
Its not idiotic like Kinsella's crusade against the guy who hardly plays (You`d be hard pushed to find anything that is) I just feel pointing a finger at him is a little bit like shouting at newly trained train driver for the shit service delivered for years by the TransPennine Express
For me. He is not the pantomime villain. He didnt even get on stage until the curtain was coming down.
I promised myself I would not let this club affect my mental health.
Yet here I am at 6:00 am on Sunday morning after yet another sleepless night, posting War and Peace about Graeme fucking Sharp.
I think we have done everyone else to death and he is just the latest circle created for us all to go around in.
Fuck this club. I'm done with it... At least until Arsenal roll up for the next game.
I find it difficult to believe that some people don't think the cowardly failures who deny all responsibility, also known as the Board, have less to do with the on-field failings than any Manager. Who appointed the last half dozen or more managers and three is it, Directors of Football and now must look at the probability of replacing the current incumbent.
The only reason I can see for appointing Dyche, who got Burnley relegated while a novice has them top of the Championship, is that there are no other self respecting experienced unemployed willing to take the job. While it is still numerically possible to escape relegation there must be some consideration that the next appointee must be able to have us at least challenging for promotion back to the Premier League should the ever likely worst happen. The Board may come up with the answer and prove successful but their recent past record doesn't seem to indicate that being very likely. Most likely they will just change the Z-Cars tune to McCartney's "Yesterday".
Darren#233
As you say a lot of people just work for the money and do take a lot of shit.But I think it is because most people's objective is to do as best they can and want to do honest days work.They don't think like the boss that give them shit or is mean to them.They do not realise their bosses in the main are also employees and also can be questioned on their work.
It is 30 years since I worked for someone who I copped on was trying to get rid of me.I could not understand it. I worked hard,achieved targets and brought in a load of business..The hardest thing to understand was what I seen as attempts to sabotage good business to achieve his objective.I had a young family, a mortgage and my wife was sick at the time.Both my wife's and my parents had die with in a nine month period and I was taken by my Sibling to the high Court over a will to save her useless husband who had raked debts up of £150,000.On advice I was told I would be gone within 6 months with Fuck all.
I called for a meeting and confronted the issues.I was surprised that the Human Resoures Manager was there and realised the 6 months advice was right.10 minutes into the meeting they asked for a adjournment for 10 minutes.When they arrived back I questioned my boss on his performance and asked the Human Resources Manager what she was going to do about it.I then said I was now ending this meeting and would be arranging another meeting which I would be preparing for in the meantime.They both looked baffled as I walked out.I actually outlasted them both and have attended to my own business first ever since, encountering similar Dickheads along the way who I have dealt with..
Everton is full of people who are trying to do a honest days work, but the place is also full of Dickheads like the one I encountered 30 years ago.They dominate the Culture of Everton and will continue to at the cost of preventing good business being done.
I have nothing but contempt for Sharpe who knows he is way over his head in his position and would shaft anyone for those that put him there, including the Fans.
Darren 353
It's what Evertonians do, because that's currently how it is.
Like me you'll never stop being an Evertonian, so I'm afraid my friend roll on Arsenal, where we will probably get something.
I have read the majority of this thread, but before posting I asked myself, other than the blindingly obvious:-
1 'where are we going'? I don't honestly know. 2 'how will we know when we get there'? I don't honestly know
3 'have we got a map'? I can answer that one, No
The 3 question above are taken from a sketch by Rosen Atkinson 'Live in Belfast'.
Have a listen, it might just bring a smile to your face!
That's my impression of where we are currently!
Rowan Atkinson sketch is entitled 'Sir Marcus Briwning MP.
Sums us up to a T
Klopp, Wenger, Conte, Howe, Sarri. All examples of managers who've been relegated. People using this argument alone against Dyche are wrong to do so, and need to look at his achievements too, especially in comparison to Grey Frank who has achieved the square root of fuck all as one.
Dyche got Burnley into Europe, and had a few top half finishes with them too. It's hardly trail blazing, but it's better than Franks record by far.
However, despite personally calling for him in my misery yesterday, there is one thing that puts me off on further reflection; NEGATIVE TACTICS.
Less than 1:13 matches finish 0-0, and average goals per game is closer to 3. Unless you score 2 of them, you are not going to win matches. With modern balls and techniques trying to Nick a 1-0 is just plain football suicide now.
So, if we want a miracle survival the question is which manager will come in and get us playing on the front foot trying to win?? We've missed the boat with Bobby Brown shoes…..maybe Biesla is the one worth the punt??
If Sharp, would have just kept his mouth shut, he would have still took stick from loads of Evertonians, but because he hasn't kept his mouth shut, or maybe his fingers still, he's not going to have many people defending him now.
The present regime will definitely be on their way out of Everton, sooner rather than later, and I find it sad that Graham Sharp, has badly tarnished his legacy, but it doesn't surprise me in the slightest, that his boss, hasn't told him to just be quiet, Graham.
This is unless he's just choosing to be loyal, and is genuinely disgusted by the vitriol pouring down on him, and his fellow boardroom members? We all live in different worlds, after all.
Ray @ 356, where we will probably get something against Arsenal ? Like a good botty bashing ?
Mikky will not be in a benevolent mood and neither will his team, they are programmed differently to our lot. A lot are making our comparative dominance against West Ham like some sort of saving grace. No good if you just play possession football but have no shots on goal, and keep either giving the ball away, only to win it back, rinse, spin and repeat, or pass sideways and backwards.
Brian Denton
Really interesting post, Gary (358). If those stats are true, and I've no reason to doubt them, then we've got to start scoring at least 2 goals in a good proportion of our remaining games.
We have to go on the attack. Better to win one and lose two than draw 2 and lose one.
Jason Li
Dire.
Let's hope two people who have the knack of making the right run into the right areas and hitting the net come in. The game isn't about being pretty, it's about having the best goal difference and you can only do this with clinical finishers in the team and keeping it tight at the back. Once this is sorted then you can have a bit of pretty football thrown in when goals are flowing.
The Invincibles didn't play 90 minutes back-to-back games beautiful football, sometimes they hung on against teams and like Man Utd, including moments of misplaced passes, and Pires or Overmars would pop up and score for Arsenal, or Kanu would come on and in a flash they'd have a goal or two. Even underdogs in FA Cup games that keep it tight find 2 or 3 chances in a match somehow. And Frank knows this best under Mourinho, the amount of dull football games they had and bam Frank and Drogba score worldies and win.
Whether it's Lampard or another manager, there IS ENOUGH in this squad to get to mid-table once two good finishers are brought in. Even if it means a 33 year old mercenary on loan for 3 months on £100k a week from somewhere, or someone who wants to try out the Premier League.
Where's the new Landon Donovan or Henrik Larsson when you need him?
I'm 100% with Zack 346, I've got nothing against Dyche or Bung Sam personally. Both I'm sure would do a better job in organising the team than Frank seems capable of but with this board, and this owner, what does that mean?
Until there are major changes at the top ie new owner or a new board of football savvy people then we will continue to die a slow death and, if we survive, next season will be another relegation battle and the season after that.
I know it's scary but I think we may need to bite the bullet and prepare for relegation but only if we have a vision for the future.
Kenshite and his cronies have to go. Bring in a chairman who will oversee a complete and thorough change in mentality, spirit, professionalism and competence at all levels. Get rid of this "jobs for the boys" mentality. Find a young, hungry, ambitious manager (with experience) who will start the rebuild from a lower league - employ him now to get on with the job.
I don't know what Thewell does to be honest. How restricted is he when it comes to transfers? Is our inactivity due to money or incompetence? Do we go into the window with targets already in the pipeline or do they start each window from scratch and then start to panic when there's only a few days to go? We need a revolution in our"scouting" and to stop buying other teams rejects.
So my solution is painful, embarrassing and humiliating but I think it has to be done. As long as these idiots are in charge the best we can do is to tread water in the prem and hope for survival each season. If we want to change we need a cleansing by fire - and a fire sale of all the dross we've accumulated over the last 10 years. A board and a manager with a clear vision for the future and players willing and eager to be a part of it.
By the way -Davies played very well yesterday. Our best player. Crisp passing, lots of running and energy. One of the reasons we did well in midfield.
Just saying...
Jason, if you put Henry and Overmars into Franks team Coady and Tarkowski would pass it side to side until the defenders caught up with them, and then Pickford would belt it long to one of them so they could take a clattering from a hard nosed 6ft 3 centre back. Both would be lucky to score anything in his team.
We definitely need a Bergkamp though…..Leicester are a completely different team with Maddison, and Bowen crucified us yesterday. With exception of maybe Grey there's no silk in this team at all. Dare I say it, but since losing the nameless one in the number 10 we've turned to utter cannon fodder.
Derek 360
We can't beat the teams in and around us, which is by far our biggest problem.
Although tongue in cheek, our last result against Man City is what I was alluding too.
You never know!!!
I am a diehard Evertonian after all 😂😂😂, you have to try and laugh otherwise you'll end up in the asylum!
Gary @ 365, true.
I bet the training videos of Henry winning headers from Pickford's punts would look fantastic though - heh
Darren (352),
I don't disagree with you, rarely do, but I have spoke to Sharp on many occasions and know that he will agree with us on most things Everton. But he keeps those views to himself and always puts a different side when speaking for Everton and Kenwright, so that doesn't suit me.
I like open people who are always themselves, Sharp is two-faced — I can't abide people like that. Like you, I had a bad night cheered up when Beefy gave Eubank a slapping.
Best wishes, Darren.
Boards do not sack themselves, fact. So, as much as I would dearly love to see the back of Kenwright & Barrett-Baxendale, it's unlikely to happen. No amount of vitriol will shift these unashamed charlatans.
Furthermore, it serves us little at this point to deliberate on their collective ineptitude, as we stare into the abyss of impending doom. What is required is immediate drastic action in order to avert certain relegation. That starts with the sacking of Lampard.
He looks a broken man. His position is completely untenable. He should go with immediate effect.
As for the players? Pickford has had a reasonable season, but the fact is that he and Gordon are realistically our only sellable assets at present. Both should be sold and the money used to bring in at least four players capable of ensuring our survival.
I'm at a loss to provide the name of the manager to oversee these radical changes. All the 'Usual Suspects' will no doubt be forwarding their availability, knowing full well that even failure and dismissal bring hefty rewards.
It would no doubt be only a short-term appointment anyway, so perm any one from several possibilities. It matters not, as all will have the same negative remit, to abandon all prospect of entertaining football and win at all costs.
Such is the level that our once-proud club has sunk to, courtesy of Kenwright and Co.
Thanks for nothing, Bill.
Ray Robinson
Re the debate on Sharp, who I've always considered a Yes-man since listening to his old post-match Radio City phone-in.
I wonder why Joe Parkinson gave up so soon the Fans Liaison Officer Role that was created when he retired through injury? His replacement? Graeme Sharp.
Perhaps the message that he was conveying to Kenwright was more palatable?
Colin 363,
The club model that we should be aspiring to is the likes of Brighton and Brentford, two forward-thinking clubs with intelligent, attack-minded, tactically astute (relatively) young managers.
Employing the likes of Dyche simply reeks of the old Kenwright way of doing things and for this fan of 40+ years, I'm just so completely done with that way of doing things.
This current squad, manager, board and owner has completely put me off the club to the extent that I find it hard to give a shit anymore. Perhaps, like you posted, relegation might just be the only way to start from scratch and do things properly for once.
*relegation might just be the only way to start from scratch and do things properly from scratch. Typo.
Zack, I'd agree with you if we weren't joint bottom of the league with no money and no attacking players worth a shite.
It's possible we could find a manager of the type you're suggesting now who would be board this sinking ship, but who are they?
I'm saying that Dyche is the best I can think of at this present time in our current situation.
Duncan McDine
Didn't want to comment until I'd 'slept on it', so now in the cold light of day, I can give a more measured assessment: We are proper fucked.
Shane 373, surely that's a job for the so-called professionals who run the club and who are meant to have their fingers on the pulse of the sport that they are operating in. You know, like the same way the people who make the decisions at Brighton and Brentford found Thomas Frank, Potter and now Di Zerbi. It shouldn't be up to us long suffering fans to come up with suitable names and answer the question "would they come to us." But since you asked, I like Bielsa, Iraola from Rayo Vallecano and Amorim from Sporting, three managers with a clear way of playing, two of them young but talented.
I think if Bielsa got the job now we'd go down. I'm not familiar with the other two.
Brighton and Brentford weren't in the perilous position that we're in when they made those appointments and Brighton at least had the players capable of playing the new manager's system.
Zack, you are 100& correct, although my concern with Bielsa was he was sacked for a reason, like Dyche but April was too late for Burnley.
But Burnley fans are very appreciative what Sean did but also enjoying the football much more with Kompany.
Joe, we looking like we are going down anyway, without so much as a whimper too. At least with Bielsa, we might actually score a few goals in the process and give it a bit of a fight. And if we do go down anyway, the man has the Championship experience to get us back up. Plus, the man also has a proven track record of turning average players into decent ones. And average players is the one thing we have plenty of. That's plenty of boxes ticked in my opinion.
The whole sorry decline started when Ronald McDonald Koeman spunked all Moshiri's money up the wall.
Each subsequent Manager has then inherited shit, bought more shit and then been sacked resulting in Lampard spending more money on shit like McNeil, Onana, Maupay and Gueye.
Ian -Onana is a promising young player.
Danny O'Neill
I'd say it was failure to invest and capitalise on the position we were in in 1987 Ian. Some will go back further.
We can point to the European ban and I never dismiss that. But it didn't stop United, the perpetrators and later Chelsea, Arsenal and now City.
Keep focusing on the Manager and we'll keep shooting the messenger.
Change at the top and then cultural change filters down.
We basically got someone with money who just allowed the existing incumbents to throw it around.
Poor leadership results in a failed mission.
Onana will be a very good player for someone else. His awareness is poor though.
Last couple of games I thought he could do more to stop the opposition scoring. Bowen running off him for the 2nd, is another example. He's cost a couple at home too.
But let's be honest, they're all crap. Not seen a decent game from Tarkowski, Mykolenko, or Gana all season.
Ian you are spot on with the Koeman started the rot comment.
Yep lumbered with over contracted crap for years.
For the first time in my experience, I feel Evertoninas are actually running out of things to disagree about. It's all so cut and dry, black and white. We all know where our problems lie.
I think we have both met the same Graeme Sharp. He can and does play with whichever side of the bat is convenient. But I just don't see him as a significant player. He was only made director as a token gesture and its been Christmas for him every day since.
I think people have said just about everything they can about Kenwright and they are now going for the foot soldiers rather than the generals.
For the life of me I don't understand why some are not holding the managers and DOF's who have squandered 100's of millions responsible for anything, Yet the Junior coaches and the guys who graft in the back ground are portrayed as a bunch of living stealer's.
Kenwright remaining in his seat when the rest had gone yesterday suggested to me that he is doing what he always does. The brazen fucker is digging in.
We need to focus and keep the pressure on him.
Just read that Brighton spent a measly £3m on winger Kaoru Mitoma who is currently lighting up the league.
Why do our scouts acting do to earn their crust I wonder?
Everton decline has been as your day Danny.But it has been turbo charged from the Johnson era on.So called saved by Moshiri who gave them money to do further damage, exposing the incompetence that already existed.
Put a beggar on horseback and he will ride to hell.
Darren @384. Quality mate.
I'm human, I stuffed up many a day but would put my hand up to my stuff ups and accepted responsibility. I guess what gets me most of all is when players, managers, a board, chairman or owner doesn't. Not only that but tries to shift blame elsewhere.
Yes the managers is unable to use what he has to its best potential, yes he probably will be gone this time tomorrow, but that would only be the tip of an iceberg that's so colossal it would dwarf the new stadium.
The players and managers bear a significant responsibility, but more so in my opinion does the chairman because it's factual to say the the appointments made, the players bought and the inability too operate within financial constraints have destroyed our ability to bring in decent players. Can't blame the fans for that and whilst it's first base to sack a manager, one cannot forgive those who gave an inexperienced manager the appointment to begin with. Sadly sacking the manager to another is not going to fix the issues but it may result in EPL survival. Live to fight another day perhaps..
Darren (384),Yes of course Kenwright is the main man to get rid of but Sharp is not a new target no matter what his position is at Everton, he's let himself " be for sale" for a long time and most probably earned more working for Kenwright than he did as a player for Everton.
David Midgley
Simon #143.
Simon, not calling you out or anything but I'm curious how you knew
about Southampton scouting DiZerbi .
Have you read about Cortese signing Pochettino for them ? They were going
to sign Coutinho but ended up signing the manager. Cortese turned the
Saints from also rans to a wealthy club. Wonder what he could have done
with Everton ?
If I can be controversial and open myself to criticism for a minute.
One of my childhood heroes, Graeme Sharp, risks becoming the next Duncan Ferguson.
Admired. Respected.
But becomes a conformist to the regime.
Danny@391, I gave up on him on 2006 when he ignored my question about the low scoring brand of football (Moyes era). Nothings changed really.
Also it makes me wonder if Simms is missing being at Sunderland today. Will be well over 40,000 and the ground. And he scored an injury time winner up there days before being recalled.
Dave Lynch
40,000 at Sunderland!!!
Give us a break.
37,877. At todays Sunderland game.
Ian, I've said it here a few times, Koeman was the worst manager we ever had, the millions he wasted on average players, some of them are still here, is the reason we're in this position today along with the board.
Lost all respect for Sharp with his statement, considering the whole episode was totally exaggerated, even Jeff Stelling admitted yesterday he jumped the gun last week. Did Sharp really think his life was in danger if he had taken his seat against Southampton, definitely Kenwright's yes man.
I thought Davies was the only shining light yesterday, and should start ahead of Gueye against Arsenal, Gueye's first touch yesterday was abysmal, should have been hooked at halftime.
Lampard Senior broke my heart in 1980. Lampard Junior broke my heart in 2023.
I hope none of Frank jnr's Kids take up Football.
You're not being controversial Danny.
You are just peddling the usual FFFF's gossip.
Ferguson worked for this club for nothing. He wrote to Moyes asking to take part in coaching session so he could gain experience. it was a season before he even got on the pay roll. That arrangement was made between the two men. He was later made head coach on merit
He as stepped forward twice to take on a desperate situation when nobody else would - Again for no extra pay.
He applied for the job and was overlooked in favour of Frank and the Barra boys. The myth that he was one of the "looked after" blue eyed boys was exploded there and then...And if it wasnt. the fact that he quit five months later would offer certain proof that he was not a yes man.
You or anybody else will not put up any evidence of Ferguson critcising the fans like Sharp has...Theres a very good reason for that. You cant. You would like to, but you cant.
That wont stop you guys have repeating the allegation again next week.
I'll tell you one thing: If he was asked to step in again. He would unite Evertonia in a way nobody else could.
Maybe all those tens of thousands who have got behind him and would get behind him again, are mugs who don't see through him if he was another Sharpy
Darren,
Afraid to confront his boss. Doesn't like successful people like Carlo, Always champions the weak (Davies) felons (Dunc) and other social misfits over respected professionals. Doesn't guy to social events when invited by ToffeeWeb posters. Are you the guy from Revenge of the nerds?
Darren @398, I agree with you about Ferguson. I think he's a superb Blue who has distinguished himself in his conduct. I had a recent experience when he showed natural courtesy to my son at the Christmas fun run - a small moment when there was nothing in it for him.
I just don't think he has the nous to do it for us, at least on his own. I was very interested, though, in the suggestion yesterday that he and Carsley might be an option.
Frankly, we're at the point when pretty much anyone and any combination are worth a punt.
Kinsella The profile you are building on me is about as acurate as you FFFF's.
Bets on Boxing - Nope
Drives a fork lift - Nope
Drinks Bushmills - Nope, but I have tasted it.
Hates managers because I was in a shit job - nope.
I`m retired but was self employed and I have a family who I go to matches with, Funny watching you rejig the profile every week though..
You have Tom Davies down to a tee though.....
Repeats himself. Yes
Duncan Ferguson can't be that poor of a coach, Ancelotti offered him a job at Real Madrid.
He'd face problems being our coach full time as he's no one's sycophantic yes man.
Currently he's well out of it and personally I hope it stays that way until we have an owner & boardroom that know what they're doing.
Daniel A Johnson
He quite simply has to go.
A new manger in now with half the fixtures remaining gives us a fighting chance look at Villa for example.
We keep Frank we get relegated its that simple. Frank Lampard is out of his depth look at Chelsea for example, champions league winners a few months after he got sacked.
We are bad that's no doubt but part of that has to be down to frank his tactics and his coaching. We are getting worse not better.
SACK HIM NOW.
But Carlo is a busted flush who hires unqualified people like Clement and Davide? So is he smart or not?
Bobby Mallon
Ian Edwards 375. Didn't koeman finish in 7th place? I think us fans wanted to much to soon. Our problem is management are terrified of playing new signings or youth for an extended period when the tried and tested have been shite. We played away at Chelsea with a few kids and they did well. If Frank stays then he needs to change it and change it fast.
Daniel 408, it's too late for all that. We need to keep calm and think ahead to next season.
Ferguson has no track record at all in managing a club in anything other than an interim role. Managing requires a unique set of skills and especially in our current predicament we need
someone who has demonstrated they've got experience in the role not someone who is learning on the job.
We basically appointed Frank because he was a great player as if that translates into being a good manager when obviously there is absolutely no correlation at all and playing and managing are completely different. Coaching and managing are also completely different.
When looking for a manager at least go for someone who has managed before surely!
We've also appointed Sharp to the Board for the sole reason he was a great player? What attributes does he bring to running a modern day football club at executive level?
Regardless of his comments or anything else the main issue for me is he has not got any demonstrable experience that shows he is fit for the role and is likely there purely for show. The same goes for the CEO - no relevant experience at all. Has the finance director worked in finance before? Wouldn't surprise me if he is an ex gigolo we employed because he is a true blue.
Brian Hennessy
Lampard has to be sacked no matter what it costs, we cannot afford not to.
If our financial situation is as bad as it seems we can't afford to bring in someone currently in a job as we can't afford compensation.
To me it seems Dyche is the sensible appointment to make. He has proven himself to be a better manager than Lampard (not saying much). If we do go down which is looking likely, he has experience in the Championship and got Burnley promoted three times if I'm not mistaken.
If by some miracle he keeps us up I think he can do a job for a few years until we get out of this financial mess, we are in and keep us in the Premier league.
It's now all about survival, and I'm not just talking about in the Premier league, about the survival of our very existence as a club.
410 Bobby I had convinced myself that Koeman was a disaster. We seem to go from car crash to car crash.
Darren, so what you are saying is you don't bet on boxing!
Well I thought I didnt Joe, I thought I just backed on Horses and Footy, but somebody who watches me very closely has informed me that I do.
Took me ages to clean the blood off my hands....
Danny @411, you should look for a role at Dignitas.
No flipping racing worth punting on in this weather, Darren!
Isn #415 Koeman was a total disaster, the reason we threw away hundreds of millions on average players. I like the Carsley/Ferguson team, Lee has done really well and now England u21's coach
Darren, it wasn't Rebekah Vardy was it?
Brilliant Joe
Didnt think I would laugh that much this weekend.
I did ok on AW yesterday PT. But yes you're right.
Bobby @410
Koeman got the sack after we were hammered by Arsenal. I'm pretty sure we had gone into the bottom three.
Joe @ 400
Fair enough Mate. there is no proof he could have done the job and I think its fair that you have doubts.
Steve Croston
The Carsley / Ferguson duo is the most plausible offering put forward so far, and in my opinion our best chance of survival.
We don't need to do anything fancy really; 2 disciplined banks of 4 and 2 up top, proper old school stuff. We have the players to pull that off, all we need is unity and belief and Ferguson and Carsley could provide that. Anything else and we're doomed I'm afraid.
Dave @393, the attendance was 42,584 at Sunderland today, yet for some reason you said "Give us a break" when a said over 40k would be there today, wondering if Simms wishes he was still there.
Can't believe some Manager shouts: Let's go from the inexperienced Lampard to the even more inexperienced Carsley and Big Drunk. Let's just close down now.
Paul (419), Anyone who backs the Faps would have had a good day at one of the Irish meetings, especially if they had done the accumulator, all seven went in.
Whom would you appoint, Ian @425?
Ray Roche
Ferguson unemployed. There's a reason for that.
Ray "Ferguson unemployed. There's a reason for that."
Surely there's SOME club out there that would take him, given his CV? Poor lad is unemployed.
Dave, I noticed that. I very rarely do accumulators theze days after Annie Power fell at the last at Cheltenham a few years back. 6 horse acca at Cheltenham, first five won, Annie Power was unbeaten and unbeatable, fell at the last. I would have won 8k had she gone in
Yeah turned down unsuitable jobs.
Theres a reason for that too
Don't get this clamour for Dunc and now the likes of Carsley, Baines and Jose Baxter. We need someone authoritative, tactically sound and someone who could happily exist in the intense pressure of the Mariana Trench.
Ian doesn't know.
I wouldn't worry about any potential manager being out of work. The money these people are/were on, plus the chance to do other stuff in the meantime, means they can wait for the right one.
Most of my best decisions in my business have been the work I've turned down.
Kieran, A Sea Cucumber with a penchant for the 4-5-1 ?
Darren, did he turn jobs down or was he turned down?
Just watched Arsenal. I'm filling me kecks already.😳
Kieran 432
Apart from Big Dunc, I agree with you, we need a quick fix on a short term contract and take it from there!
In short we are in shit street, so nobody will join us on a long term go BBC tract.
Survival this year is the priority with whoever.
In the meantime, get rid of the dross above and below, and start afresh next season, in the premier jeafyy u w 🤞🤞🤞
Carsley would be a decent candidate for the Championship, imo. He has gone about his business in a smart manner, working as a coach of developmental teams and then to the England developmental teams. He's built a good reputation for himself. He's hotly tipped as first choice for the Republic of Ireland FA when Stephen Kenny eventually gets the boot.
But for a first job as first team manager, this is not the job for him.
Dyche is probably the only candidate, in all reality. Can't see any other manager wanting this job, it'll likely just be a stain on a CV.
Alexander Murphy
"Pitiful exhibition of Premier League football incompetence"
Fantastic economy of pure truth Michael.
There is utterly nothing to possibly add to this superb collection of crafted words.
I both applaud and bleed from My soul.
But what can not be done is to is fault, or improve upon Your devastating perfection.
"Pitiful exhibition of Premier League football incompetence".
Not just the once adoreable Everton v West ham.
Decades of utter, utter fuckin misery.
Ian Edwards does this all the time. But doesn't come up with a suitable candidate.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/av/football/64362933
Spot on. Danny Murphy.
https://twitter.com/AverageStriker/status/1616942499112550407?t=dsdd2m7VSaF8qoeBirR3LQ&s=08
Ian#425 Your anti Carsley & Ferguson team, you're anti Lampard, were anti Ancelotti, would love if you could put forward a candidate as manager?
Lol. Carsley / Fergie combo is another recipe for disaster. We need someone with experience not noobs!
Tony Everan,
I was thinking maybe that octopus who predicts World Cup results.
Mention of Carsley makes me refer to previous comments I've made.
No insider knowledge, but I understand he is content coaching at developmental level with the England U21s and doesn't really have any ambition for club management.
I wouldn't be surprised to see him follow the Gareth Southgate career path.
What's with our obsession with Evertonians being employed by Everton!?
This 'jobs for the boys' rubbish is part of our problem, the club is riddled with it from top to bottom.
Don Alexander
Carsley, the skiving thug, or the ass-kissing blob being suggested as manager!
And all the while we plough on straight into the monstrous iceberg we've seen all season.
Some Toffees are surely on some sort of Kenwright produced speed.
Danny 446, If he follows Southgate's path to England manager he will have to do what?
Become a club manager, like Southgate did.
Mick O'Malley
Ian Edwards, all you do is criticise, Onana is going to be a cracking player
And whatever you think of Lampard and every other manager we've had, they all know a damn sight more about football and tactics than you do. Every manager we get, you slag off. Lampard is failing but you don't have to let us know every 5 minutes.
I had a quick scan on Carsley, Jeff. Similarities but a slight difference.
Yes, Southgate went into club management, but I don't recall him setting the world alight at Middlesbrough.
On a technicality, Carsley has managed. Caretaker manager of Coventry and another stint as caretaker and assistant at Birmingham.
His roles have mainly been development coaching at Brentford, where he did have a period as Head Coach (so technically Manager). His role at Birmingham aside from being caretaker for a short while, was development coach.
And then into the England set up.
So in short, I read that he's done brief periods of club "management" but seems more interested in the coaching side of the game, which I personally think is more suited to the international game. They don't have to manage in the sense that is required at club football.
TW reflecting life in general
Just for the sake of those whipping themselves into a state of unbridled outrage. Nobody... And I do mean nobody had put forward the names of any ex players on this thread. It wasnt about them
Duncan Ferguson was introduced to this thread in post 391... As a candidate ? No. He was introduced solely in as the latest attempt to besmirch his character.
Happens all the time on here. People putting up disparaging remarks or "rumors" they claim they have heard about a common target within a particular group - Nearly always an ex or current player.
Its a disappointing aspect to what is otherwise a fantastic site populated by many extremely knowledgeable Evertonians.
It becomes even more disappointing when the poster/s making the allegations, disappear without trace when asked to substantiate their wash-house-gossip with any sort of evidence.
Still at least it opens the door for others to come in and howl their outrage - "Jose Baxter ???... You're avin a fackin larf"
It would be good to come on a footy site and see people talk about footy facts, but in all walks of life there are gossips who will spout their stuff with little or no regard for truth and there will never be a shortage of people wanting to be outraged by it.
For me. the post of this thread for me is Tony @400.
Tony doesnt fancy the guy as manager and he simply says so. No fairy stories, No gossip. No muck-raking. He doesnt need it to support his opinion.
On the subject of Lee Carsley. I hadnt considered him, but I can see why others have thrown his name into the mix.
I havent heard the rumors that Carsley is content, but what I do know is that if he was offered the chance to manager in the EPL and the sort of wages previous managers have been afforded. I think he would be in his car in a flash and on his way up the M6.
He'd be very easy to spot. He'd be the fella doing warp factor 6
I just finished watching the Arsenal - Man Utd match. The thing about Arsenal is they're really not doing anything that's that difficult, and they're a side that was built on relative no-name players who've obviously been coached very, very excellently.
Their coach/manager is an ex-Everton player, so I guess that means ex-Everton players make good managers.
Based on that info, I'd like to put forward the following names who I think should be considered for the job:
Big Vic
Eddy Bosnar
Alex Pistone
Francis Jeffers
Marcus Bent
Stracqualursi
Shandy van der Meyde
Phil Senderos
Joleon Lescott
I think any one of those guys would do a good job because they used to play for the club.
Frustration in the moment Darren and making a comparison about two Everton number nines revelled by the supporters. Cheap shot and I'll take that on the chin; just as Eubank did on Saturday. Hands up.
Frustration at characters like Ferguson and Sharp falling under the magic spell that many of us have been guilty of over the years until the smelling salts were applied.
But they have the platform to speak out rather than the likes of me ranting on here and still going the match on Saturday to get my medicine!
It appears Lampard has too. Bigs up the board; or was doing until he suddenly realised he's the next lamb to be sent to the Everton abattoir of managers.
Genuinely. Although I wouldn't like to see Duncan as Everton manager as I have no ill feeling towards him, but does anyone have any insight into what his future holds in the game?
Is he looking for or in contention for a management role?
Waiting for Everton to call?
Gone back to his family and the pigeons and doing the odd pundit gig?
All seems a bit quiet.
Anyway, as I was typing, I've just received a notification that our DoF will be have the responsible for drawing up a list of potential replacements for Frank Lampard. I can't vouch for the reliability or credibility of the sources.
On one hand, good. The DoF is responsible for football matters. On the other is there a danger he is being dragged into the board and in reality, they will dictate? Brands Mark 2? More of a question and me thinking out loud.
What's all this Darren bashing about? Leave the man alone! I rarely agree with Darren but he stands his ground with facts and reason. I'm not a fan of Ferguson or Davies but I respect Darren's tireless defence of both. Now as for Iwobi………
As for who our next manager should be. What about Zinedine Zidane? He's out of a job and he's definitely a Hollywood manager.
Sorry Darren, got to come back at your 398 post (I think).
No I wouldn't like to find evidence of Duncan criticising the supporters. He wouldn't and never has.
My point was how former club favourites become subsumed into the shit show that has become Everton.
From history, and I don't know the guy, but Duncan was always pretty passive and quiet off the pitch in contrast to his aggression on it. Maybe that, and his love of Everton, is the reason he has stayed quiet.
Sharp on the other hand has properly upset and disappointed me to say the least.
Anyway, I didn't want to turn it into a Ferguson conversation so I will apologise and not comment on it anymore.
The players might actually be missing Duncan Ferguson, right now, in a similar way that Alan Stubbs, was missed, when he left Everton over a contractual dispute, before returning to then help Everton, have a much better second half to their season, many years ago.
My own view is that Kenwright, had told Duncan Ferguson, that he (Kenwright) hadn't got that long left at the club, because Moshiri's tap had been turned off, but this doesn't mean that Ferguson, hasn't been missed, and maybe this has even helped keep Frank Lampard in the job, for much longer than he should have been allowed to remain.
Paul Cherrington
Frank Lampard? Frank Spencer more like - certainly in terms of his managerial abilities it seems.
Oooohh Farhad, Jordan's done a whoopsie in my beanie hat.
Same old players. Same old tactics. Same old formation. Same terrible results.
When you think the aces up our sleeves to come on and save the game were McNeil and Davies, you know we're in trouble.
Something has to change - Lampard has to go. Probably already too late in terms of truly winnable games the new manager has to target moving ahead but let's at least show some fight to try and stay up, rather than going down with a whimper.
Would get rid of the Director of Football position moving ahead too. The rot really started when Walsh came in during Koeman's stint - player recruitment has never been much good overall since we started using that as a model.
Get back to the manager choosing the players he actually wants - not whoever someone else lumbers him with. I know it can and does work at other clubs, but we just don't seem to have any success with it.
This is exactly the point I am making Danny.
We are in deep deep shit and people can only think about plunging the knife into the back of a former player and coach... WTF is all that about ? He didnt make any major long lasting decisions
You kinda confirm my belief that ex-players are somewhat despised on TW. Not by a lot of people, but by people who post the same wash-house nonsense over and over about them.
I often see people ask why Sharp, Ferguson, Unsworth etc didnt speak out, but we have had two international managers. We have had two Champions league winners, We have had a Dutch player of huge international status. The word of every single one of these managers would have carried far more weight than anything former players could have said, But in all my years on this site I have never once heard anyone ask why they didnt speak out against the hand that was feeding them so very richly.
We are expected to believe that the world famous names who left this club struggling to carry the fortunes they were paid for abject failure, were hard done by. Victims of gross mismanagement. Not their fault Yet the guys (some of whom are known to actually pay into GP as fans) who were prepared to put their bollocks on the line during some of our darkest hours are just "Living stealing yes Men" ?
All the facts, official records and in-front-of-your-face evidence is not enough to convict the managers. Yet rumours started and perpetuated by the same people about former and current players is enough to get a band wagon rolling which will label them devils.
BTW Danny. My point was directed more at the bandwagon which followed your post...
Vindictive. Inaccurate, stupid and just downright false.
I wouldn't put it past the club to offer the job till the end of the season to someone like Duncan or Bainsey.
They both know Finch Farm and the staff and both are held in high regard by the fans.
One or both would be a very good way of trying to patch things up with the fans.
Duncan owes Bill for getting him back on track and I can't see Duncan criticising the board.
The fans respect Ferguson and would be reluctant to have a go at him and they certainly would not touch his car(with him inside).
I would prefer Dyche, and if we appointed him, I would happily watch well-organised players bust a gut every week grinding-out results. To see the net ripple on a regular basis, but not at our end, is what I want.
I think we need experience and Sean knows the PL, has been in a few relegation scraps, has led Burnley to Europe and got them out of the Championship. So if the worst happens, then he is qualified to get us straight back up.
You're fine Darren. One day, we'll get to meet up.
The question is which manager can get a tune out of our Frankenstein squad and move us to safety by the end of the season.
Despite Danny Bally's assertions we are not already relegated at all - 6 points cover the bottom 8 clubs and they are all poor sides. The bottom 7 clubs have won precisely 3 games of the last 35 league games between them.
That is the question we have to solve - which manager can get us above the 7 other crap sides we are in competition with?
Steve -exactly. Luckily we see that there are plenty of poor sides this season. It is our only hope that three of them are worse or more unlucky than us.
If we can tighten-up and find a few goals, we can still move out of the mire.
Eddie, if Baines or Ferguson are put in charge for the rest of the season then things are a hell of a lot worse than we all think.
Darren, regarding Ferguson, I loved him on the pitch as a player, and his brief, ball boy hugging tenure he was a joy to behold. Yes, we all got behind him and loved the passion that engulfed the crowd, but, for me, I don't see him having the experience to get us out of this hole that we're in. Passion and love for a club are not enough. If they were, you or I could manage the club. The only job that I can recall him being linked with was at Blackburn and he was unsuccessful in his application. I don't know if he's applied for any other jobs and I have no idea why he's unemployed when there is a managerial merry go round of the same (failed) faces being appointed throughout the League. I just imagine that clubs may not see any ambition in him. He's 51and no job in football. Sad. He must have something to offer?
No back stabbing from me as far as he's concerned. I just don't think he's the man for the job. And I don't know who CAN get us to safety.
Ferguson ? having left to become a manager but hasn't become a manager. Mmmm let me see, yes, he'll do for us.
Cheap, no real PL experience. Perfect. Hello Championship
As we've pivoted to talking about ex players. I can actually see Baines as becoming a decent coach. I don't know about manager / leader though.
To repeat myself, Osman and Pienaar, although again, as coaches on the training ground.
I know I've been critical about jobs for the boys. But I really don't care who someone has played for or where they come from as long as they are good enough.
And it's important to distinguish between coach and manager. That's where the DoF, if executed properly can come into effect. The coach just focuses on what's going on in the training ground and on the pitch.
Paul (458), I think you are closer to the truth in putting most of the blame, on the state Everton are in at the moment, with the squad of players we have finished up with after years of very poor player recruitment.
I have watched Everton for a long time, seen worse teams than the present one but have never seen a more feeble and weak, physically and mentally, than this one, as soon as the opposition put any pressure on them you see them fold and the huge gaps in defence appear, like a beach coming into view when the tide goes out.
It was so clear after twenty minutes on Saturday when WHU suddenly decided to attack and have a go at Everton's defence (?) it had wobbled, stood still and gave away the goals we could all see coming same as in many previous games this and last season.
Incoming players this week might help close some of the gaps, increase the fight and put some guts and dignity back in certain players and help us in the fight to stay up as long as the manager is replaced, Frank has been here twelve months and mostly just stood and watched us go from bad to worse with his arms folded and a face that has become sadder with each passing game. I hope the new manager is not too late, whoever he is!!
As always Dave, you say it correctly.
I haven't had the fortune to watch Everton for as long as you but I've been watching and following them for as long as I remember, which is roughly the same time as your Tony.
I've seen worse players and teams than this.
But the key word in your post is mentality.
Weak minded. Heads down at the first hurdle. We actually have good players. They just look frightened of being on a football pitch.
Get Dyche. He'll galvanise us. Play simple Football. We'll be okay
I'm not sure we have seen worse defenders than this.
Keane and Holgate have been slaughtered on here, but the sight of all three of our center backs landing in a heap going for another bread an butter ball and leaving Bowen in to score is still angering me.
How many times do we need to see this ?
Said all season these center halves would get us relegated.
Tarkowski and Coady. The much vaunted upgrade are killing us
Darren -is because they are zonal marking because I see all of them out of position and not watching for incoming runners. Mykolenko seems out of position all the time and for the first goal he was in the rightback position.
At the weekend the Tarkowski attempt to bundle Antonio into touch was so poo but incredibly he (Tarks), managed to get up and get the deflection on the cross that ironically put it on a plate for Bowen.
However our play is possession based and allows the opposition defenders plenty of time to get organised. I saw Onana look to play it early a few times only to shrug, at the lack of options/movement ahead.
As for Iwobi -the guy looks fit and runs around a lot but in possession he loses the ball too often and him and Gana are a terrible duo in midfield.
If we get Garner fit, I would like to see him with Onana and Davies.
I would scrap Mykolenko and rather see McNeil at left wingback.
A few of us have commented on that, if Lampard insists on playing a 3, I wouldn't mind seeing Mykolenko in a more central role.
An interesting distraction Darren.
I know it's harsh as it's one game he is infamous for, but Glenn Keeley.
And Per Kroldrup. Didn't we only get 45 minutes out of him before Moyes hooked him and never played him again?
I think our defence is being put under pressure, under which the laws of average will eventually kick in.
Not helped by tactics, which must be instruction from the sidelines. The amount of heart stopping moments I had on Saturday as we played dangerous balls across the back.
The defence may not be helped by the tactics, but the fear of coming out to play is the over riding reason they come under so much pressure.
They invite it.
yeah I agree Dave @471- years of poor player recruitment is a major reason why we are where we are. We even saw it this summer with Maupay and McNeil coming in. Money we could surely have used on decent players who had some quality instead.
I think you are right about a lot of the players being weak mentally in games. There's a reason we often concede goals in bunches like on Saturday. As soon as 1 goes in, the heads go down and they go to pieces.
We need to start looking not just at skill and technique when recruiting but character also. You need both to succeed in the PL. More pace in the team would be good too.
Our defence does look poor right now it's true, but I blame a lot of that on our non-existent midfield in front of them.
I thought it was Keane and Holgate being terrible last year but we're having the same issues with new centre backs in there this season. Gana, Iwobi and Onana just seem allergic to tracking back or protecting the backline.
Re the talk of Big Dunc coming in - I agree with fans who say his lack of experience as a manager goes against him but I would be fully behind him if he got it.
Let's not forget he was assistant for a number of years to some decent managers and so is not exactly a newcomer to it all.
He's an Everton legend and top man - at least we would show a bit more fight with him there and have a real go at turning our season around. We have to try something!
Ian Hollingworth
We can talk about the defence as much as we want but we don't score goals and never look like scoring and you can't win games without scoring no matter how good or bad your defence is.
We only have about 5 players who have 10 or more premiership goals in their entire career.
Read that back slowly and the reality of our situation is very worrying.
If FL is sacked Danjuma won't sign if Moyes is appointed!
Talksport 30 mins ago!!
The silence from within is deafening!
What do I know!
Listening and believing media hype 😂😂😂
Hes gone
Paul (478), yes the central midfield doesn't seem to anything regarding defending or attacking no matter who plays there, poor coaching and even worse systems is to blame for that which Lampard was accountable for in both cases.
Let's see who takes over and can they improve us with some signings in the next seven days.
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