text:
Unbowed Icelandic PM sends a strong message to UK
Business, Iceland, Icelandic PM´s office, MBL, Politics
By Lenka Vaiglova
In an emotional address to parliament today, Icelandic Prime Minister Geir H. Haarde summed up the tempestuous waves of misfortune that over the last weeks have shaken the nation's financial foundations and threathened its sovereignty.
"It is at such times that the Icelandic nation will show what stuff it is made of – its fortitude and prudence in the face of these disasters inspires admiration everywhere. We may for a time be bloodied, but we are unbowed."
Haarde went on to say that now that the worst of the storm was over, that the time to regain control over the raging economic situation and normalise the economy had arrived. Landsbanki and Glitnir have already begun operating in a changed form.
"…loan lines of up to 400 million euros were activated yesterday from the central banks of Denmark and Norway. We will strengthen the currency reserves considerably in addition to this and discussions are now in progress in Moscow on a possible currency loan," said Geir. "Furthermore mentioning discussions with the IMF on the possible involvement of the Fund in the financial reconstruction work that lies ahead. All possibilities are being assessed without prejudice."
The Prime Minister then reminded how the seriousness of Iceland's situation has its roots in the financial upheavals across the world that have left no country unaffected and have brought larger economic entities to their knees.
"…dozens of banks around the world have had to throw in the towel and look to the state for assistance in their home countries. The problem which faced the Icelandic Government when this chain of events was unleashed was more serious than the problem facing other governments, because of how large the Icelandic banking system was in proportion to the economy. It was, therefore, clear that it was neither sensible nor feasible for the Icelandic state to shoulder the burdens of the entire banking system."
In face of these facts Haarde stated that, "The Government decided to take another course with the long term interests of the Icelandic nation uppermost. The actions of the Icelandic authorities are among the most radical actions taken by a government in a banking crisis."
Haarde then took this opportunity to thank the members of Althingi from all parties for working to ensure that the so-called emergency legislation was passed as quickly as it was.
He continued that the most important task was to retrieve as much value as possible from the operations of the banks in order to limit the damage caused by their collapse. "All of us, the administration, members of parliament, and others in leading positions must stand together in this task. In this work we will need to make use of the efforts of all those with experience and expertise in banking. We should not allow speculation about the causes of the fire to hinder the work of extinguishing it," Haarde said.
Haarde then hit the topic of relations with UK. "…the way we were treated by the British Government last week had nothing to do with salvaging British interests and was absolutely unacceptable."
"The British Government's unprecedented actions against Kaupthing in the United Kingdom have led us to review our legal position vis-à-vis the British authorities. To that end, the Government of Iceland has appointed a British law firm, which is now working to prepare a case, and the Icelandic Government has also taken various measures to ensure that the British public is made aware of our point of view."
"Despite the dispute that has arisen in relations between Iceland and the United Kingdom, both countries have emphasized resolving the issues connected to Landsbanki's IceSave accounts. The same applies to IceSave accounts in the Netherlands."
"No agreement has yet been concluded with the United Kingdom, but I am hopeful that an outcome will be achieved soon."
"In the emergency legislation passed by the Althing last week, depositors' claims were given priority during the receivership process. There are good prospects that Landsbanki's assets in the Netherlands and Britain will go a long way toward covering the claims that savers in these countries have on the respective banks – which will in turn reduce the claim that falls on the Icelandic state. The Government has taken measures to ensure the value of the banks' assets and in that way limit losses as far as possible."
Haarde ended his speech by asking the nation to come together, learn from its mistakes and not to turn to anxiety.
"There are always opportunities in a difficult position. We have been forced onto the defensive in recent days, but with determined effort, we will slowly but surely regain the offensive."
"The Icelandic nation has been confronted with great and difficult challenges in the past, and adversity has always fortified us and brought out the best in this nation. There are difficult times ahead, and they will put our solidarity to greater tests than ever before. But no one need be in any doubt that the people of Iceland will draw on their inherent strength and make their voice heard in the world once again."
"In these difficult times it is essential to prevent fear and anxiety, which understandably effect people, from developing into confusion and panic."
FIND PM HAARDE'S COMPLETE ADDRESS TO ALTHING HERE.
Althing
Geir Haarde
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Like	. Dislike	. January 7, 2014, 9:46 am .
Well, the UK Treasury has now come to this conclusion:
"During the collapse of the Landsbanki bank in October 2008, the Chancellor of the Exchequer took steps to safeguard the deposits of UK investors. The Report notes that his comments regarding the intentions of the Icelandic Authorities had a serious impact on the confidence held in the remaining solvent Icelandic bank. (…)
The use of the Anti-Terrorism, Crime and Security Act 2001 however, clearly had considerable implications for the Icelandic authorities in their efforts to maintain a functioning financial system. The use of this Act inevitably stigmatises those subject to it and a less blunt instrument would be more appropriate. The Report expresses concern that no appropriate legislation is available and calls on the Treasury to address this matter."
"Although the Icelandic banking system was vulnerable to the crisis that has affected the international financial system since 2007, the actions of the UK government in making statements on the capacity and willingness of the Icelandic government to provide assistance to non-Icelandic citizens, whether or not such statements were accurate, turned the UK government from being a seemingly passive observer of events, to an active participant in the market."
Like	. Dislike	. April 21, 2009, 6:36 am .
Dr. Biri
It was easy to see that Iceland´s central bank was on flimsy foundation.
If you read the speech 14 June 2004 of Davíd Oddsson, former Prime Minister and present chief of the bank of Iceland. He said: "Politicians who lack clear political vision tend to go astray when there are many complex questions to ponder.
When Milton Friedman visited Iceland in the nineteen-eighties he was asked what solution he had to Iceland's economic problems. Friedman gave a simple answer: ´The solution is freedom´."
Deregulation made the wrong way was the cause for the collapse.
Like	. Dislike	. December 28, 2008, 8:01 pm .
KFS savers IOM are still holding their breath as so far the promise from the HQ in Iceland to guarantee all savers money is just not happening, is Iceland renaging on a promise I ask.
Like	. Dislike	. October 26, 2008, 2:32 pm .
IMF have not decided if they will offer this loan
we have only requested it, now the IMF board will reviev the request and accept it as it is or
accept it with added terms and conditions from the british, if they accept this as it is there is reason to be optimistic
Darling said today that he was continuing to press for compensation for British savers.
"Now we're working with Icelandic government and the IMF, who are porbably going to have to help the Icelandic government, but one of the conditions that I want, is that British depositors' position is safeguarded," he said.
this IMF deal will most likely fall apart in the next few days
Like	. Dislike	. October 25, 2008, 10:41 pm .
Peter (Germany)
Axel, I don't believe the picture is quite as gloomy as you paint it. Now that IMF agreed to help Iceland other countries will come to your help as well. Iceland and Britain need to settle their dispute, and for this compromising and climbing down is necessary for BOTH sides.
The long-term perspective of Iceland is excellent – you've got vast and very interesting resources (which might be the reason why Russia is interested in you). Also, your country is incredible beautiful and you've got a friendly people – people will continue to flock to Iceland to spend their holidays in your country.
Like	. Dislike	. October 25, 2008, 8:48 am .
IMF will take up to 10 days to decide if they will offer help, the British will try to prevent this from happening to keep their stranglehold on us here in Iceland, the Russian loan is on ice because of something they want in return,
most likely a airbase,
possibly a new cold war in 10 days.
http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/industry_sectors/banking_and_finance/article5005572.ece
As before i agree with everything William Watson is saying, this whole thing is much more complicated than most people think, as we will see in the near future,
the Brits left last night without making any progress and no further talks have been decided, the status now is that the Brits and Iceland disagree on interpretation of EEU laws, the brits want to give us a massive loan to pay all the banks debts, this would turn Iceland into a slave colony, as i had hoped they were told to f**k off,
this will probably go to court and be decided there
no one is saying we wont pay, its a question of what we will pay
The IMF will step in now and lend 2bn$ and present a plan to repair the economy
other nations may help,like Russia,Japan or Norway,
Peter Germany, every one here are thankful to the Germans for their patience and help, its good to see that the whole world isnt trying to kill us , only the British,
the Duch have taken action, it is a combination of smart moves and co operation, it will work in everybodys best interests
Dave , im sorry about your savings, i had shares in Landsbanki and Glitnir and lost my money 100%
im not crying over that, your not the only one affected by this, at least sooner or later you will get some or all your money back,
a lot of people are loosing there jobs and there lives are ruined.
Peter of Germany has made some interesting comments that the German authorities also froze assets – yet no vicious feedback from Iceland – I would also guess the Dutch government will have taken some action
It does add serious credibility to the suggestion that Iceland is trying to deflect attention away from its own problems and has found easy targets in the US & UK.
Would it really help with we publically apologised for use terrorist law – let's get real – I don't think it would the slightest difference Iceland would find something else to complain about.
It is probably fair to say the British haven't helped but stop deflecting attention and start taking some responsibility.
This is the Bafin decision:
http://www.bafin.de/cln_116/nn_720486/SharedDocs/Mitteilungen/EN/2008/pm__081010__kaupthing__en.html?__nnn=true
BaFin orders moratorium on Kaupthing Bank hf., German branch
On 9 October 2008, the Federal Financial Supervisory Authority (BaFin) issued a stoppage of disposals and payments for the German branch of Kaupthing Bank hf. BaFin also prohibited the branch from receiving payments not intended for payment of debts towards it ("moratorium").
As the reason for the moratorium, BaFin stated that it had to be ordered to secure the branch's still remaining assets. The parent company, Kaupthing hf., Iceland, was unable to continue providing the branch with sufficient liquidity. On the evening of 8 October, the Icelandic parent company had already blocked access to the online accounts of its branch in Germany after having been placed under the control of Iceland's financial supervisory authority.
Kaupthing Bank hf., German branch, currently has roughly 30,800 customers and deposit liabilities amounting to 308 million euros.
Although the branch, as an EEA establishment within the meaning of section 53b (1) German Banking Act (Kreditwesengesetz – KWG), is subject to Icelandic solvency supervision, BaFin nevertheless could order the moratorium according to section 46 KWG because there was the risk of the branch no longer being able to meet its obligations towards its creditors.
The BaFin measures are immediately executable but not yet final.
Bonn/Frankfurt a.M., den
GreatDane. I am interested in your comments and would like to know if you are British or Danish ?
Also why so much interest in this Icelandic banking saga ?
I personally have a lot of money in Icesave and I want it back right now.
I think you would have a different view point if you yourself had money in an Icelandic bank. For sure, we brits are naturally very concerned and worried at the moment and Iceland is public ememy No.1 at the moment.
Me being old fashioned, I would have acted a lot stronger over Icelands 'shrug of the shoulders', we aren't responsible attitude.
A bit of gun-boat diplomacy and seize anything/everything Icelanic in the UK until we get the money back.
As far as I am aware of the Federal Financial Supervisory Authority in Germany (Bafin) did exactly the same – they freezed the assets of Kaupthing in Germany, but strangely no one in Iceland seems to complain about that.
The whole picture was not too good for Iceland: Oddson making strange remarks, the Icelandic Prime Minister being extremely evasive in a BBC (!) interview…
I do not know that to think exactly of the conflict that has arisen between Britain and Iceland. I do know though that I highly doubt that this is a conflict anyone will profit from. Far from it.
Whatever way you look at this Iceland's intentions in paying back have been ambiguous.
1) They have protested vigously about not being terrorists
2) They have moaned incessantly about the impact of the freezing orders are having on their ability to honour their commitments
3) They continue to blame the US & UK for all their economic problems
and yet that I am aware there are only very very lame rejections or suggestions that Darling's understanding of what was said was incorrect – surely you would ensure everyone was under no misunderstanding that we did not say we would not honour our commitments (I know I would) – or perhaps it suits Iceland to feel hard done by stops hard questions being asked closer to home?
Also, while we are on the matter why does no-one else seem that keen to step in and help Iceland – perhaps being unrealistic with where the country's problems lie? But then it easier to deflect attention and blame UK/US
William Watson: if only your appreciate of realpolitik was as impressive as your verbosity.
I find discomfort in defending Darling/Brown given my utter contempt for the whole government. However, I fail to see what else they could do. The transcript between Arni Mathiesen and Darling is out, and whilst Darling was wrong to say "no intention", what intentions there were, were empty.
You talk as though this was a leisurely process. All the time in the world. No danger of contagion.
Oddsson's TV star turn was far from clear (assuming youtube's translation is correct) and this conversation must have set deafening alarm bells ringing. Just the time to set up an investigation by the foreign office into what the Iclandic government really meant. Get real.
They did what they had to in the circumstance, and there has undoubtedly been collateral damage, which is regretable.
Whilst the IMF refuses to cough up, Iceland fiddles. Self deluding petitions are not going to pay bills. A reality check is going to be a necessity and the sooner it is grasped, the less long term damage will be done.
AÞB
William Watson,
Thankyou very much :)
On Oct 22, 2008, Kam said:
>>@palli,
>>"The government NEVER said it would not honour it's legal obligations and I dare you all to
>>try to find something which points towards something different."
>It didn't say that it would either initially. If they had Iceland wouldn't be in the hole
>that it is in now. Infact there are several articles including one on this website stating
>that it was Oddsson that said Iceland would not honour its obligations.
>You dared. You lost.
The big lie pushed by the apologists for Brown and Darling (of whom you are an exemplar kam), is that the representatives of Iceland's government were not clear and concise in communicating the government of Iceland's intention to honor its obligations to depositors.
Like all EEA members (and Switzerland also), Iceland has been signed up for many years to the EU directive 94/19/EC – a minimum deposit guarantee for savers of EUR 20,887 (£16,300) for each account holder, foreign or not. Darling (current) and Brown (previous) Chancellor of the Exchequer of course know this. It was after all on Mr Brown's watch that these EEA/EU directives were incorporated into UK law.
It would be unprecedented for an EEA member to suddenly say, "oops, sorry, no, we know we're signed up to this for years under our EEA contract, but this week we've changed our minds. We didn't mean it. We're not going to pay depositors a penny."
But let us say that you were the head of another EEA signatory state and you heard someone on TV or radio with some official position stating what you thought was exactly that. Would you perhaps, just perhaps, think you had misheard or misunderstood what was being said, and seek clarification. By phone. In writing. By secure fax, and diplomatic pouch. Just to be sure?
Because after all, you are not just Joe Q Public or Gary Tracksuit, you are the head of government of a nation of many, and if you get it wrong you might well cause a lot of trouble for people in your own and the other EEA signatory state.
Luckily you have a foreign service, a team of professional diplomats who's job is to find out for you through established procedures of protocol to make absolutely sure that you don't get the wrong end of the stick.
But what happens if… If you simply ignore that foreign service and act in your own short-term political interest, because your deputy was cornered by an aggressive interviewer early in the morning, and blabbed out a lie and wrote a blank cheque on behalf of your taxpayers for a guarantee that didn't exist before the interview. What then? You have a problem. A multi-billion pound problem. A political problem of biblical proportions.
"And where I've made mistakes I'll put my hand up and try to put them right… And in these uncertain times, we must be, we will be, the rock of stability and fairness upon which people stand… A Britain of fair chances for all, and fair rules applied to all.." – Gordon Brown, Labour Party conference speech, September 23, 2008.
In the phone call between the ministers, the message most certainly was clear that the Icelandic government would continue to honour its obligations to depositors, as will be shown when the transcript is published. Darling speaks fairly clear English, as does his Icelandic counterpart. There can have been no cultural misunderstanding either, in the use of language, and so forth, because the Icelandic minister of finance, Arni Mathiesen studied at the University of Edinburgh in the early 1980s and spent several years in Scotland.
The only other message sent out from the Icelandic side that might have been seriously interpreted as saying this was David Oddsson's interview on the Kastljos "Spotlight" TV show (much like the UK's Parkinson) on the evening of 7th October.
But the strangest claim of all by the Brown-Darlingist apologists is that it was this interview that caused Darling and Brown to react the way they did. "David said they weren't going to pay, so we had to act quickly!"
Excuse me? Say what?
First, as far as I know neither Brown or Darling understand Icelandic. This interview was in Icelandic only. Therefore they must have got a report from someone else fluent in that language, as they could not understand it themselves. If that is indeed the case and they did in fact take an interest in the interview, that someone was probably someone in the UK Foreign Office who would have briefed them on its contents and no doubt told Darling and/or Brown to follow protocol and get confirmation though the correct channels, at the very least.
As to the content of the interview, here is a translation* of what David said, (the juicy relevant bits).
"We are deciding that we are not going to pay the external debts of 'people of disorder', people who can't pay their debts. We are not going to pay the debts of the banks that have acted imprudently.
Why am I saying this? Previously people believed that the Icelandic system – the Icelandic government and taxpayers – would try to pay all of the debts of the Icelandic banks.
When the debts have reached a stage where the banks need EUR 50 billion to EUR 55 billion in the next three to four years and they can't get the money because interbank wholesale lending markets are not functioning then if we committed to this we would be placing our children and grandchildren into so much debt that it would be slavery.
Now people realize quickly that it is time that we go the same way as the Americans did, e.g. with Washington Mutual; the Americans said – those who lent money in all sorts of ventures that did not succeed in the end, …as they lent this money to profit, while there is nothing wrong with that, when they failed, then these risk takers have to be stuck with the loss, not main street.
…We are taking this harsh decision to say we are not going to pay the external debts of the banks [so that the government credit rating can recover over time and the currency strengthen once it is clear that the government is solvent and will not default on sovereign debt]."
*http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=26irOb_RxhU
Quite a speech to digest. But it is hard for even the man on the Clapham omnibus to interpret it as stating that Iceland is defaulting on its obligations under 94/19/EC, let along someone who is the Chancellor of the Exchequer or the Prime Minister of the UK (who also happens to be the previous Chancellor of the Exchequer). Brown and Darling are meant to be insightful specialists knowledgeable in the relevant EEA law, and also deep thinkers in this area (as we are led to believe).
To a layman two big things poke out at you. One is the emergency legislation passed and signed into law on the 7th October by the Icelandic parliament; "Act No. 125/2008 on the Authority for Treasury Disbursements due to Unusual Financial Market Circumstances, etc."
While allowing various powers to the minister of finance regarding management and ownership of banks, and disbursement of funds, treatment of creditors, etc., it also modified the "Act on Deposit Guarantees and Investor-Compensation Scheme, No. 98/1999" to bump bank depositors right to *the top* of the list of creditors in the event of bankruptcy of the banks.
The second big thing poking up like a proud sticking up thing, is David's mentioning of Washington Mutual specifically as an example. As any fule kno it was a US huge bank that went bankrupt and was seized by the US government but in which no *depositor* lost money, only risk taking holders of debt such as bondholders, and shareholders, etc. David chose that example for a clear reason.
If Darling and Brown are the knowledgeable big thinkers in the area of banking, financial regulation and bail outs in particular, there is clearly no way, with appropriate translation by the foreign service, that they could have got the wrong end of the stick. Unless of course they are either i) complete idiots in the literal sense, or ii) politicians who chose to completely ignore their advisors for purely short-term party political reasons, to well… lie, and point the finger away at some foreigners and find a reason to seize their assets, …foreigners perceived as not likely to be able to defend themselves… to divert attention away from the implications of an on-they-fly policy just created, and a nasty feeling that maybe some local authorities might just have quite a bit of money in these banks too based on guidelines set by Brown… all of which could make things well, a bit sticky with the press.
Further as PM you, Gordon Brown, suddenly realize as a light bulb goes on that you can opportunistically solve another nagging problem you have…
There is an inconvenient by-election coming in the parliamentary constituency next to yours in Scotland in the next few weeks, and the Scottish Nationalists look like they are going to crush your party this time, and it may mean your job as leader of the Labour Party handed to you on a plate if they do.
And the SNP leader has been harping on about an independent Scotland joining this noble "arc of prosperity" with Ireland to the west, Iceland to the north and Norway to east, all small independent countries rich from this independence, and amongst the top six richest nations in the world.
And suddenly you have at your disposal a quick and politically painless way to make one of those independent countries, well, not quite as rich or prosperous. But you must act quickly…
>>@AÞB
>>"Does UK government do such drastic things on the say of a banker?"
>What exactly do you mean?
I don't like to speak for AÞB and Palli but perhaps the above is along the lines of what they meant.
http://www.indefence.is/index.php
Icelandic terrorists, the new axis of evil
Like	. Dislike	. October 23, 2008, 12:12 am .
I think your right William Watson ,
Kam, why dont you watch the Geir Harde video again
you may have missed something, lol
Peter, you right, i dont know much about Chenguiz and to be honest i dont really care, if you keep all your eggs in the same bucket…. well he would probably still have his money if it wasnt for the amazing stupidity of Brown, im not gona try to convince you of that, no sense beating a dead horse
and John , i hope all savers get there money back and also the charitys, no one really knows what is going on or how long this will take, this country is in ruins now, that may cause a slight delay
There will be no IMF accistance unless we deal with the British government first, they are offering a loan but it has not been accepted, probably because of terms and conditions being unacceptable, no one will do anything for us unless we first accept help from IMF, so its a deadlock, Harde knows that if he caves in we will throw him into the sea, so thats not likely to happen, we seem to have been removed from the terrorist list for now, so North Korea probably will go up from 10 place to 9, poor Kim,
Where is the savings of many folks of KFS IOM I ask, UK savers are guaranteed their wedge backed by the UK government but what of the Iceland guarantee by Kaupthing to cover all KFS IOM savers.
Peter - London
Why the constant complaint about what the UK said and did, whether Iceland said it would pay for its commitments or not ?
The banks were all bankrupt, here the Prime minister stated on the 6th Oct that the banks were unable to raise any credit
http://eng.forsaetisraduneyti.is/news-and-articles/nr/3035
Once they couldn't raise credit, they were dead.
Iceland quite plainly did not have the funds or ability to raise them either.
@William Watson,
That doesn't look like refusing to answer the question? You have got to be kidding me.
And what the hell has his tiredness got to do with it?
If he'd had half his brain engaged he'd have said yes we *will* meet all our obligations. Instead he dodges it completely.
Stop call black white and maybe i'd take you're arguments a bit more seriously.
@AÞB
"Does UK government do such drastic things on the say of a banker?"
What exactly do you mean?
With regards to denials from the Icelandic government, i point you to the videos of interviews with Haarde on the BBC as i pointed out on previous posts. He did not say that Iceland would not meet the obligations, he completely refused to answer the question. So what are people supposed to think? His refusal to answer by the way occurs at about 2 minuetes into the interview.
Which ever way you cut it, that kind of response when beamed around the world does Iceland's reputation no favours at all.
kam wrote:
>Haarde starts refusing to answer the question at 2:00 into the video*
You mean where a tired looking Geir who clearly can't quite believe what he heard from Darling and Brown earlier in the day (on the radio and TV but not over the phone), and is being as diplomatic as one would expect when dealing with the words of an ally (the UK) is asked by the BBC interviewer: "Let's say I am an IceSave customer with GBP 100,000 in the bank. What guarantees can you give me?", and replies:
"The British government has already said that they will in the first instance guarantee those deposits. And I think that's to be appreciated. And then we need to talk, the two governments, on what happens next after that.
…Like I said, going to court is always an option if people disagree but I'm not so sure that we need to disagree once we've had an opportunity to go through this at the official levels between the appropriate ministries."
When pressed by the BBC interviewer, "…What protection would you be able to provide if the British government didn't step in?"
And Geir answered: "Well that is now a moot question because they have said they will do that. And we need to talk after that."
Pressed further by the interviewer: "So you're not able to actually say what protection Iceland would be in a position to provide for British depositors in IceSave."
Geir finishes: "Regretfully I'm not in a position to state exactly what that would be."
*http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/7659975.stm
This doesn't look like refusing to answer the question to me.
Given the free spending ideas that started in Ireland on the complete backing of deposits, and on this day, the 8th October, when suddenly everyone and his dog seemed to be writing more and more blank cheques way above the requirements of 94/19/EC EUR 20,887 (£16,300) per depositor – i.e. for example Darling making policy decisions during radio and TV interviews – wouldn't you, as a responsible head of government representing 180,000 or so taxpayers want to be a little circumspect about signing such a blank cheque yourself on the fly?
Geir was being responsible. Also he clearly still expects that Brown and Darling are civilized fellow travellers in the financial storm, despite the rhetoric on radio and TV earlier in the day from messurs Brown and Darling.
But then the next day came the freezing order for Landsbanki and the ridiculously swift use of the Banking (Special Provisions) Act 2008 to seize the retail deposits from both Landsbanki's subsidiary Heritable, and Kaupthing Singer & Freelander and gift them to ING…
So now there has been some time for reflection, and clear how unreasonable and damaging Brown and Darling's actions have been, as Geir put it in his speech on the 16th Oct:
"…the way we were treated by the British Government last week had nothing to do with salvaging British interests and was absolutely unacceptable."
@Kam.
Palli and i both said Icelandic government.
We all agree Davið Oddsson should go.
We havent lost yet
Which bit don't you get? UK is *not* responsible for the governance of non-UK territories.
Get that through your head.
kam, you seem to be at least a little schooled in disinfo techniques. If not, you are a natural. You can't dispute the facts I presented about Brown and the SNP, so you ignore them, and try to apply Disinformation rule 4: "Use a straw man";
>"Depositors in Landsbanki Guernsey and Kaupthing's Isle of Man subsidiary and all the others hurt by this are just acceptable collateral damage to Brown."
>So basically your little theory holds no water.
Are you kidding? Brown and his administration aren't exactly being subtle about this*, I quote:
"Mr Brown was defended by Douglas Alexander [Scottish Labour], the international development secretary, who told the BBC "Now is not the time to be asking Alex Salmond why he builds his claim for credibility on telling us we should be more like Iceland," said Mr Alexander. "There will be plenty of time in the future to ask the SNP about the Arc of Insolvency.""
*http://www.theherald.co.uk/news/news/display.var.2460973.0.snp_accuse_gordon_brown_of_economic_catastrophe.php
Brown killed Kaupthing to make attacks on Salmond of the Scottish National Party so much easier, just in time for the Scottish Glenrothes by-election. This is a combination of Brown's trademark Stalinist ruthlessness and cheap opportunism for political gain.
Do a little bit of research and then please do address that, kam (and others), if you dare. I don't think you do. A lot of people want this brushed under the carpet.
@palli,
"The government NEVER said it would not honour it's legal obligations and I dare you all to try to find something which points towards something different."
It didn't say that it would either initially. If they had Iceland wouldn't be in the hole that it is in now. Infact there are several articles including one on this website stating that it was Oddsson that said Iceland would not honour its obligations.
You dared. You lost.
Palli, they cant find anyone in Icelandic government that actually said we was not going to honour its legal obligation because from the moment this started we in Iceland have heard 'Iceland will stand by its obligations' i for one would like to hear who actually said this….not from Brown or Darling but in English from a member of the Icelandic Government!
John, the freezing order clearly says it's only pointed towards Landsbankinn.
Sorry to say, but I regarded Britain to be a friendly country, in WWII Icelandic fishermen risked their lives bringing fish to a starving Britain, and we lost many fishermen (per capita the loss was one of the highest in the world of casualties of the WWII) but apparently this alleged friendship is not very deep. Apparently I was dead wrong.
I wish you luck Axel (you will need it!) living under your new owners, I guess you will be using rubles. Why the Barnsley Building Society had money where they did god only knows, if I had the sense not to put my few bob there then surely someone paid a fortune should have known better. The 3 billion loan to Iceland to fund the savers sounds ok providing it is used for just that.
>Robert Tchenguiz
Lost £1billionin one day because he had to repay his loans to Kaputhing. The UK is lending £3Billion to Iceland, I'm sure wiser heads than your will not say no to 4bn euros.
Axel I don't think you know what you are talking about.
Robert Tchenguiz is a Iranian busynessman who sold some shares through Kaupthing ?
he is a very smart busynesman and will probably make a profit from this firesale of his assets even if we cant see it, he may want to invest in something else
also about the mighty Bloomberg, i also heard about the IMF nordic/japan deal but the japaneese minister of finance has not heard about this
sorry but its bs
its possible that the IMF is thinking on those lines but Bloomberg is way ahead of them, they may accidentaly be right, lol
the british government may give Iceland a 3 bn loan to cover Icesave, terms vill be negotiated in the next days, this is very unexpected
why would the british government give 3 bn pounds to a bunch of terrorists ?
personaly i would tell them to f**k off and talk to the russians, after being on both sides of the terrorist fence i can tell you that you Brits are no better than the russians, probably worse
Read this John
http://www.landsbanki.is/english/aboutlandsbanki/pressreleases/?NewsID=13336
http://www.kaupthing.com/pages/164?path=K/133944/PR/200810/1258139.xml
The terrorist law only freezes a part of the UK assets of Landsbanki, not kaupting, the attack on Kaupthing was just a mistake, a expensive one
and when you say that British newspapers are quality you must be kidding,
Your beloved gordon is now setting up a huge database to spy on you, giant "Big Brother" database holding information about every phone call, email and internet visit made in the UK
you will be getting your own terrorist treatment soon ;)
KSF was put into administration by the UK government as The FSA determined that KSF no longer met its threshold conditions for its licence, the government used the Banking (special provisions)ACT 2008, however as its IOM branch feeds funds into the UK branch at least 600 million pounds from the IOM is frozen.
Palli, not sure what you are on about, the link you give is regarding freezing Landsbanki in the UK
which was reported by Daily Telegraph and BBC. I will say though, and this is my opinion not the press, Iceland will be better off with an IMF Japan/Nordic loan than from any other source.
please read the respective order from your own government before you drop to conclusions. Maybe DT and BBC are not of such high quality as you say.
http://www.hm-treasury.gov.uk/d/finsanc_landsbanki_notice171008.pdf
Axel, Info was taken from The Daily Telegraph a quality UK national newspaper. Kaupthing assets ARE frozen in UK thats why Kauthing IOM is unable to get its hands on anything at present, Axel look at manxradio for latest Kaupthing IOM news. Axel the latest news is Iceland is very close to a deal with the IMF and help from Japan and Nordic countries… not on my say so Axel see Bloomberg. Ask Tchenguiz about his firesale of Sainsbury and M&B shares… I said nothing about being an expert, those are your words Axel, I get all my info from the press or BBC.
You are wrong john, on the contrary money was being transferred from Iceland to UK the last days before the banks had there loanlines cut of and went into admission, dont pretend to be an expert on something you now nothing about,
Kaupthing is not frozen and i dont see any assets flying anywhere, there will be no firesale on our property or assets in UK, you can bet your last cent on that.
Amy stop bleating for goodness sake, try to come up with some constructive ideas. If the UK P.M. had phoned Icelands P.M. before using the anti-terrorism, CRIME and SECURITY act, (there are many aspects of this act Amy please read it all) you could bet your bottom dollar any asset would have flown out of the UK. I saw these Icelandic banks paying really high interest rates a year ago but opted for a lower interest in the UKs largest building society so I have no vested interest in slagging off Iceland but really if I could be suspect a year ago so should have Icelands financial authority.
One goodwin point for Amy :-))
and his sterotype…
that is also to rick..
Peter, do you mean someday when you are on the verge of deadly diseas, you just want someone to kill you to death even if you still have chance to be cured????
Learn to put yourself in other people's shoes..
From you comment here, I can only see you are an anti-Icelandist and think very highly of yourself and your own race…You are about to become Nazi soon..becareful.
LOL you dont know do you, Iceland has not hunted whales for a long time, but now there is no reason not to anymore is there,
MMMMMmmmmmm i miss whalemeat, its so good
looks like we are going to be needing more food :)
JAPAN exporting whale meat from iceland
ICELAND should stop this barbaric practice of slaugtering whales have a look at http://www.greenpeace.org.uk thats how thay make money.
ICELAND im anti-whaling iceland make profits from killing whales BLOOD ON THERE HANDS THAY SUFFER IN PAIN LEAVE THE WHALES ALONE.
Kaupthink was on the verge of failing itself.
You don't get a 62.5% CDS rate and expect to continue as a bank with massive lending needed, in the very short term. The Icelandic government is trying to fool its citizens that Kaupthink was a viable bank only brought down by the British, its not true. The markets had already marked it for death and the Icelandic government was rated very poor for borrowing (10.5% on Oct 4)
Switzerland has a GDP of $440Billion, twenty times that of Iceland, and has many other sources of income to back up high borrowing. They also have the supreme confidence of lenders everywhere.
GM's collapse will suddenly put 10's of thausands of people outside tthe social security net in the US. This will not be allowed to happen of course, I get a feeling we will see the American government nationalizing a lot more companies in the future, and it doesn't matter wether donkeys or elephants rule in the white house.
Germany has problems with it's pension funds in the future but it will be taken care of in due time, so it is nothing to worry about. But USA's problems will not be taken care of, I simply do not think they have the leadership to take the decisive actions needed. Eventually they will drill for oil all over Alaska, and also build more Nuclear power plants, but this simply is not enough.
This thread was about the speech, which I thought was a good one. Im English not British and I thankfully live in Reykjavik, Iceland.
The mood here is basically WHY IN THE HELL DIDNT GORDON BROWN make a Phone call to HARDE before using the terrorism card, That is the gripe the Icelanders have with G, Brown & the UK.
Secondly The Icelanders felt for the people of the IceSAVE situation Initially, Kaupthink was trying to buy Landsbanki but wasnt allowed, thats what makes me laugh, the very bank that could of helped all of you investers in the UK was killed of by G Brown trying to get the peoples money back ? Certainly given how strong and healthy Kaupthink was it would of insured a quicker return of the investors money, or at least the economy etc.
Thirdly, It is my opinion that the anger aimed at Iceland is Mis-guided, Simple facts are that the world is in a financial pickle created by BUSH, and Iceland is the Most expensive country in the world to live in. Litte surprise there really that it gets hit hard and first. BUT you had put your money into an amazing interest rate investment programme that now isnt gunna turn out to make you richer than you were ? Icesave started to have problems when the Thompson holiday company (not sure of name) went bankrupt, owned in affect by IceSAVE, therefore I guess Ironically you could blame yourselves for not Booking a holiday and saving your money, Ironic really. My points arent meant to upset or wind anyone up just to point out that there are many many different aspects in this, and The media is the worse villian of everyone in my opinion. Presumptions also rate very highly too.
Finnally, I'm sure that in a few moons time from now we will discover than G Brown was wrong in what he did. a simple phone call would of insured there was alot more Icelandic money around to help the IceSAVE situation & If anyone wants to argue that point, dont bother. Brown Killed Kaupthink FACT, And in doing so created this anger of the natives of these two Islands.
Thank you for reading my point of view, sorry if my spelling isnt all upto date and puntuation too for that matter.
Andy Oct 17, 2008 wrote:
>The William Buiter (Prof LSE) report on The Icelandic banking crisis and what
> to do about it: (April 2008) is a prescient forecast of what actually happened.
It's got a couple of sloppy errors, but I agree completely, overall it is a fine piece of work. I did find this amusing however (p. 18):
"[Iceland's] massive mismatch between the currency of the lender of last resort and the foreign currencies of operation of the banking sector is unique, as far as we know8.
8The Switzerland-domiciled part of the Swiss banking system (this excludes the foreign subsidiaries of Swiss
banks) derives an unknown but probably substantial part of its revenues and profits from the rents Switzerland
creates and appropriates through its bank secrecy laws and its resulting position as a tax haven. We do not
recommend that Iceland actively pursue tax haven status, both for practical and for ethical reasons."
So it's okay for Switzerland to have the same massive leverage and small national currency and its banks are allowed their banking secrecy, because, well, they're… Swiss. But not… Iceland?
As to his thesis about an alternative lender of last resort, which was quite valid the Icelandic banks did approach the Bank of England via the Brown administration due to their UK branches/subsidiaries – but were rebuffed.
Buiter's thesis:
"Only full participation in the Economic and Monetary Union of the European Union
provides a long-term solution that will permit Iceland to maintain an Iceland-domiciled banking sector of its current size relative to the rest of the Icelandic economy. This requires
EU membership."
…was and is not the only solution. Calling on the help due from the governments of the countries of its subsidiaries, such as Finland, Luxembourg (European Central Bank, Euros), or the UK (Bank of England, Pounds) who are meant to provide liquidity assistance via such mechanisms as the discount window and open market operations of the respective central banks.
EU membership is not the solution for everything. You be sure that much of the money deposited was put in exactly because Iceland was not a full EU member, but more like Switzerland and Liechtenstein.
we are up against the wall but we have options
The Russian loan is negotiated in 3 stages, it is now in stage 2 , we will see what comes out of this in near future, people here in Iceland are expecting Russia to want access to the Arctic because of Oil and metals, Russia planted a flag last year at the bottom of the North pole sea to clame rights there, as we have been abandoned and attacked by the west it will not surprize anyone here if we would work closer with the only friends we have,
UK has used a terrorist law to freeze all assets of Icelandic companys in UK, destroying Kaupthing bank our biggest bank, who had nothing to do with Icesave and was in wery good shape, also this law labels all Icelanders as terrorists and other countrys are freezing money from the clients of our exporters, so there is no money getting in or out of the country and we have very little reserve
it is safe to say that we now understand why the Scots and the Irish hate the british so much, nato have been told today we dont want R.A.F to patrol our airspace as they were going to do in december, the IMF wants to help , but if they do they may cause more damage than good, possibly our worst option because of ties to the countrys that dont seem to like us very much, the world is changing it will never be the same again, the nordic countrys did offer a 1,5 bn euro loan who would be payed in the spring, but that is very obviously to little and to late, a joke really, no Icelandic official has ever said to anyone we would not pay the UK savers, Kaupthing have hired a british law firm to take the UK to court over Kaupthing, Singer and Friedlander and kb edge who were attacked by bitish authorities , the Icelandic government is backing them up and they have a very solid case, we will never join the EU because that means giving up our fishing stocks, my grand father sailed to England in WW2 with fish to keep those critters alive thru a ocean full of German submarines, in one of the trips a submarine shot down the ship infront of him and behind him with massive losses, still he went more trips, this is the difference between those two nations, the british are realy a smaller nation, they only have more people, we dont really hate them,just feel sorry for them,
we have never defaulted on anything in the history of Iceland, the british loan is 100m pounds and goes to Landsbanki
we are not giving up we will fight this and win one way or the other,
greetings from a terrorist in Iceland.
Radek, Czech Republic
Dear Brits,
You should first watch these two videos before you will start to address swear words to ordinary Icelanders:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YbD-omir4c0&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jUrC5yd7_F0&feature=related
I appreciate the British sense of humour(the only thing which I appreciated during my two years staying in the UK) – however those two videos are serious at all – and you can see from this that all crisis started much more speculants in the City than ordinary Icelanders…..and also that you will receive your money back more late if your Gordie will spread out panic over the Iceland's finance sector (because then they will get less for their current assets and will have to pay more from their budget). I am sure you will receive each penny back because I know ordinary, hard-working and honourable Icelanders. I know them from Denmark where I am currently living (GreatDane – your country is really great). I know that you Brits are afraid of anything foreigner and you try to pretend that you do not discriminate even if you discriminate all the time – this shows that you discriminate not only people(my own experience),but also whole countries (I would like to see you freeze assets of some for example French bank). I can just say – keep your Isles for yourself – even Polish and others are fed up from your arrogant behaviour and leaving you there alone – and without them there will be nobody to work for you and your whole economy will go to hell. I just wish those lawyers prove that your PM negative influenced value of Icelandic assets and you will have pay some compensation for that – maybe even more than you saved on those bloody accounts. Think about yourself sometimes self-critical(if you can do it-I doubt) and next time enjoy your life and spent some of your money for something what you like rather than saving each penny on high interest accounts.
P.S.: I apologize to a minority of polite, self-critical and kind British people – however I will be never able to say: "I like Britain". I can just say "Jeg elsker Danmark" or "Ég elska Ísland".
hope iceland sinks in the mud give the uk savers there money back.
As I said in a previous posting actions speak louder than words, get the undersea electric cable going as Icelands awash with power and supply cheap electric to the UK and as soon as savers are paid off with all this electric profit Iceland could end up with a profitable company, might upset
the French who have a cable to the UK from France but competition is good.
@Hans,
yeah, i think the UK is working on a similar solution of loaning money to Iceland so they can repay the debt. With regards to the amounts, i don't dispute those figures at all. Infact in all cases for all countries involved with this whole Icelandic banking crisis, the sums involved have been huge. Approx £4bn in Icesave and about £8bn over all Icelandic banks (Icesave included) for UK alone. Some paper did the maths and came up with something like £100k+ per person in Iceland that was owed. Clearly unmanageable, at least in the short term.
FFOKCUF: Well they allow you don't they :) Seeing they lowered the bar so much, I am sure they'll allow me too.
"GreatDane is anti British through and through, GreatDane you have a BIG chip on your shoulder would love to meet you !!!!!" Is that my first threat :) Wouldn't surprise me since Brits are soo simple and vulger with a strong tendency towards violence
GM reserves should last another year. On top of that they have been loaned $25Billion from the US Government. The US will not allowed GM to fail. Too many wages and pensions depend on it.
Fiat is asking for even more money from the Italian government.
I agree with the state of the US economy, Iceland has far more debts in relation to its economy however, plus the US have many valuable exports and resources (although they export only a little more than Germany – a much smaller economy).
Paul Lewis
On Icelandic news sites we have read that the people of Iceland distinguish between the British government and the British people. But reading these comments it is obvious they don't. Oh dear – doesn't bode well when we're all in the EU together!
FFOKCUF
GreatDane, you really are trolling, Brits to rise to it ! We know what we need to do. Reading GreatDanes post for a few weeks now and I am shocked that ICENEWS allow him to keeping posting what he does. I posted a response to GreatDanes response to my post that was no way as rude as his and it was removed !
GreatDane is anti British through and through, GreatDane you have a BIG chip on your shoulder would love to meet you !!!!!
Nastia Peerson
This goes to show that politicians are the same the world over. Faced with a crisis of their own making politicians need to point the finger at someone else (in this case the UK). I can think of few big crises where this hasn't happened. Painful though it will be, at some point, Iceland must accept its responsibility for the troubles or it won't be able to make the necessary changes. Most of the people responsible are are still in power or got clean away with it.
@GreatDane,
Right hand side in the results page (a video) after you plug in the search phrase i said before. Haarde starts refusing to answer the question at 2:00 into the video.
Fortunately i am not greatly effected by any of this. I do have money in Icesave, but relatively little compared to the hundreds of thousands that some have put in the bank. That said, what really got up my nose was that not more than a week before this all kicked off, when things started to "go wrong" due to "technical issues" with the Icesave website one of the Icesave managers made a statement on radio (again available on BBC) that everything was fine and depositors were safe.
Now having been to Iceland myself i know enough in general of Icelanders to think that they, as a general group are trustworthy. Alas i was completely taken in by this banker's statement and actually kept my money there.
When the penny finally dropped after the accounts were frozen, i still didn't worry as i knew the Passport agreement was in place. I only started worrying when assets had to be frozen and there were statements initially by the UK that Iceland would not honour the agreement. This was then backed up by the video that i pointed you to. At this point i was still sympathetic to the Icelanders as it is no great joy to watch a nation go down the economic drain over the course of a few days.
But as i've been reading some of the comments here over the past week or so with Icelanders actually defending Haarde's comments and actions my sympathy has pretty much evapourated. Not because i have money "invested" in the situation (like i said it ain't that much and was all covered by the UK anyhow), but because it was pretty clear to me that Haarde was taking people for a ride. In my eyes and i'm sure in many others Iceland's reputation is in tatters, not because of what the general Icelander has done but because of what Haarde and his cohorts have done (or not done as the case may be) in compounding the crisis precipitated by the bankers. Hearing sympathetic noises from Icelanders for Haarde's fumbling certainly does not stoke optimism in me.
I would also like to pick up on what Andy and myself have said previously on other discussions on this site. Kaupthing was going to go down. Anyway you look at it. It had no backing for lender of last resort. That in itself was a breach of the Passport agreement as there was no way for the bank to honour its obligations. Regardless of the way Kaupthing assets were seized (i believe under the clause that the seizure was invoked it was perfectly correct and legal) those assets were essentially the UK's bargaining chips.
And for those that say The Netherlands have managed to sort this out without (so far) having to seize or instigate legal action (though they did threaten to), the UK has Billions deposited in those accounts, far exceeding the amount deposited by the Dutch. The difference in money at stake between the two examples is huge.
@ Kam
The amount of money dutch savers have in Icesave is 1.7 billion euros. Not peanuts either. The Icelandic government will pay back the 1.1 billion they owe the dutch people, by means of a loan they will get from the dutch government. That means that the Icelandic economy will be able to recover first.
When it comes to public money, at least 230 million euros are tied up in Icelandic accounts. This is money councils, waterboards and provinces need for their projects. They are not covered by the deposit guarantee system (quite logically so), but apart from the media not many people are believing the Icelandic banks AND government tricked the dutch into handing over their money so the Icelanders could steal it.
There is a rumour about a lawsuit against the FME by the dutch state, because thoughts are that the FME didn't inform the dutch authorities fully, but that is something that needs to be settled in court, and not by hearsay and disputes between the citizens of nations.
When it comes to measures being taken, then it is quite remarkable that they are similar to the plan the dutch PM presented at the EU Meeting a week before the last, and that – at that moment – it didn't gain momentum. Now it does, and now Gordon Brown is the big man? I don't think so. But well… it's not really useful to blame people left and right in times that we need to stand together and make the best of it.
Best of luck to all the Icelanders who see their world crumble (or at least shake) and to all those (Britons, Germans, Austrians, Dutch, etc.) who wait to get their money back.
@Kam I can't find the info in question.
Besides we have bigger problems than that, here at the office. General Motors (GM) is possible worse off then the Icelandic banks ever were. They are bleeding 1 billion USD every month, this can simply not continue, something has to happen. We are trying to fugure out what and when, when it happend the DOW will take a huge tumble. Make bad news worse.
Next industrial giant in trouble is Ford motor company, I don't have the figures here, but according to our reports they are also bleeding to death. Cerberus is trying to get out of their failed takeover of Chrysler, will be interessting to see what will come of it. But we are seing the begining of the end of American auto industry as we know it.
These companies are household names, and their demise will cause huge turmoil in the financial markets.
USA is in worse shape than ever, their finances only survive because people are still willing to take the US dollar as payment. Had market rules applied to USA, we would see some almost Icelandic implications for USA.
So this is how I spend my days, writing reports of pending doom :) How do you spend yours?
Dave – speaking as ex RN, UK has no spare forces to invade Iceland and MOD probably has insufficent funds / fuel to support the 3 spare Type 42 frigates to support the invasion fleet.
Comments re Gordon Brown borrowing of Swedish 1992 banking plan are accurate as is the understanding of his character.
This angry discussion will make not one wit of difference. It does not matter about the details of the demise of the Icelandic banks. Without a big enough lender of last resort, it was a question of when they would defualt, not if. As is usual with the UK FSA (I am aware of how they do, or do not do business) they probably panicked after the N Rock / B&B incidents.
Any legal action is for public consumption.
As a UK citizen in Iceland, this is a great place with great people. The issue might be that the local pool of talent was not adequate to support their financial dreams, but that could be said of a few other places. Blame, as per the UK FSA apology for the their actions, should provbably lie with the FME (Iceland FSA) and the regulatory environment that it had to police. The William Buiter (Prof LSE) report on The Icelandic banking crisis and what to do about it: (April 2008) is a prescisnet forecast of what actually happened.
TO DAVE:
Envasion expert= 1 enemy of moral and justic
Maybe China, India etc should invade UK, to claim lives of their ancestors and treasures not still exhibited in UK museum, that is not only some bank account right???
Dave, do you like that?
ÀFRAM ÌSLAND!
@GreatDane
Whatever dude. You're the one choosing to ignore the evidence not me. If you want to make a joke of it fine. Nobody else is laughing. Billions of pounds lost in a broken banking system, a Krona that has fallen of the foreign exchange cliff and people not having access to their savings doesn't sound too funny to me.
The only thing i can say to redeem you is that you are right in that it was a Swedish rescure plan. And infact it was "sold" initially as using the blue print from the original Nordic banking rescue as they saw the successful conclusion to that particular problem.
For some reason that later got changed to "Brown's" plan both by the media in the UK and EU probably because of ignorance and also possibly as he was the only one to see that it had a chance of working.
I think the UK should invade Iceland and reclaim all assets so we can get our money back. What a shower of con-men and theives.
Iceland= Public enemy No. 1
@Kam
"you choose to ignore it and live in ignorance." Great so we will be living in the same world! Maybe we'll bump into each other some day?
"no reason to do that since, after reading some of the comments from Brits here I've lost all sympathy with them now"
*Classic*, you could have found the truth, instead you choose to ignore it and live in ignorance.
So be it.
If other Icelanders would like to see the interview look for "Iceland's PM on Icesave accounts" on the BBC news website. *He refuses to give any assurances to Icesave depositors.*
Well, well well, Peter you really got to get with the programme. Gordon Brownie's plans are not somthing of his own accord. If you study the financial meltdown in Sweden 1992-1993 and the actions taken by the Swedish authorities you will see eerie similarities.
If you read the news more carefully you will also discover that for swedish minister of finance Per Nuder spend quite some time in London during the last week or so. Per Nuder claims that he advised the the Brownie cabinet on the actions taken by the Swedes in 92-93, and I have absolutely no reason to doubt him in his words.
link to the article:
http://di.se/Nyheter/?page=/Avdelningar/Artikel.aspx%3FO%3DRSS%26ArticleId%3D2008%255C10%255C17%255C306471
Why would you believe it is Brownies plan? when the plan in fact is Swedish? Just because Brownie told you so?
>All other governments except Browns cabinet of horror seems to be able to handle this crisis very well.
Who is being lauded as the most knowledgable, decisive, effective leader in tackling the crises? Who is probably going to get this years Economics Nobel Prize?
That would be Gordon Brown.
His plan has been followed around and it has been a success. The Libor is down to the lowest level in four years. The corporate bond market has started again. Other rates are falling.
The thing that has to be said about G Brown is that he knows his economics.
The same can't be said about Icelandic politicians.
@Kam: no reason to do that since, after reading some of the comments from Brits here I've lost all sympathy with them now.
Major difference between The Netherlands and UK being the UK has billions tied up in those Icelandic lead balloons. Not just of independent depositors but also councils that have to pay for local services such as child, elderly care, roads etc.
Rest assured that absolutely noone from the UK will ever want to have anything to do with Icelandic banks ever again.
I am not an Icelander.
I think Harrd is a great PM, seeing him leading his people in this big internal mess and serious threat from some international big nation.
Help the needed, and do not bully the yound and small.
Hans: All other governments except Browns cabinet of horror seems to be able to handle this crisis very well. But most other Governments are not in need of a "falklands moment" to save their skins in the next elections.
In the past I just learnt from history that UK envaded some far eastern countris, took people's lives and stole treasures from those countries, histrory fades away…Now reading so many UK people's messages here reminds me again of their brutality.
IKB went down
Northern Rock went down
Bear Sterns went down
Fannie Mae went down
Freddie Mac went down
AIG went down
WaMu went down
Lehman Brothers went down
Merrill Lynch went down
Wachovia went down
Fortis went down
Dexia went down
HBOS went down
RBS went down
and maybe more to come….
The difference is only that Icelandic government does not have the resource to bail their bank out. If only say Fench, or UK government did not have the resource to bail their banks out, will someone call those governments thieves too?
Icelandic government has been trying very hard to save the entire nation, and to sort out the mess left by the callapsing banks, wounded, bleeding, yet UK seemed busy stabbing them some more wound by claiming helping their depositors.
Yes Iceland has to pay debt with debt, in order to help their banks to pay back the foreign depositors, no matter how hard, I see them honor their promise.
Although my foreign currency in Icelandic bank now is under strictly controlled to withdraw in Iceland, but I understand, I will be patient, Iceland will recover, just a matter of time.
Listen those snobbish and evil soul, there is always someone watching and listening up there.
Be kind.
I guess i was just imagining the interviews with Haarde on the BBC that everybody else except you saw.
Go ahead, delude yourself. Or you could just look up the interviews in the BBC with Haarde on camera actually refusing to safeguard depositors (it's easier to find it via Google than in BBC's own website search). Come back and make an intelligent comment once you've seen the video.
It's kinda disturbing to see how the Icelanders and the Brits (yes yes, I know, by no means all of them) are more and more turning against eachother. In times like these it is better to stand together than to stand apart, and to work together to find a workable solution rather than insult eachother etc etc. So… please calm down a little, let the dust settle, and let the lawyers find out – ultimately – who said what, at what time, with what intention. Till then, everything is just hearsay and accusations flying through the air. Not really helpful (and yes, I had some money in Icesave too, but in the dutch branch. And unlike the British government, the dutch government seems to be able to settle it relatively easy).
@William Watson
"Depositors in Landsbanki Guernsey and Kaupthing's Isle of Man subsidiary and all the others hurt by this are just acceptable collateral damage to Brown. Q.E.D."
Both Guernsey and Isle of Man are Crown Dependencies they are *NOT* part of the UK.
The UK has no say in what goes on there. They have their own FSA.
So basically your little theory holds no water.
Kam:
"Icesave illegally froze foreign deposits but still allowed domestic withdrawals. Their government then reneges on international agreements on safeguarding a proportion of deposits. Then changes it's mind when it all hits the fan."
You pretend to know what happened but in fact you don't. Unless you got special connections to Alistair Darling, and he gave you information that no one else have. All you have is speculations presented as facts.
On a different note I would like to state:
That's pretty much it. After reading some of the comments from Brits here I've lost all sympathy with them now.
That's pretty much it. After reading some of the comments from Icelanders here I've lost all sympathy with them now.
I'd have thought Icelanders would be intelligent enough to figure out their government had screwed up pretty severely with the statements it put out. Their government could have stopped all this by putting out a statement that all depositor money was safe. Instead we got hand washing of obligations and we get this crap with Icelanders actually backing Haarde and his rediculous legal action.
Right now there are more people who hate Iceland and want it to sink into the Atlantic than people in Iceland. The more Haarde pushes this the more others are going to hate.
They now have The Netherlands threatening action, UK would no doubt counter sue for breaking international agreements (infact i they've already talked about doing that). And now we're informed by a poster from Germany that their equivalent of the FSA are also seizing Kaupthing assets.
I suggest Icelanders start getting realistic and stop puffing up their chest and playing hardball.
You've had to take a *loan* to help repay a *debt*. As a nation you should be embarrased. Haarde is making things worse for Icelanders with this rediculous political theatre. For the sake of Iceland's image abroad, *Get rid this idiot*.
When the debries have settled in a few years, I can't wait to get my hands on the report detailling the chain of events leading up to the collapse.
It is strange that Landsbanki went first as I would have said that Kaupthing was the less secure of the two banks and need to roll over 5Bn Euors in wholesale lending up to 2009. I think that the Kaupthing Q2 profit was not real but rather accounting smoke and mirrors regarding currency gains on the ISK decline.
Shame on you Svet, speaking out like that with out reading the facts.
BETTY LUKS
Please view the Social Dynamics movie files on the front page of the website http://www.alor.org/
It is absolutely certain that when the debt-created money system becomes too debt-laden it will collapse. It has done so throughout history.
it is time to set up the world's financial system on a firmer basis. Study the movie section titled: The Black Magic of the Money Cult.
Betty Luks Australia
Many more British banks go down the plug hole before this crisi is over, taking foreign funds down with the. I wonder how, say, the Chinese will react.
Shame on you Haarde, the UK government did the right thing. Keep all this propaganda for the domestic audience. Greed greed greed this is what let to the coplapse of the Icelandic banking system
I've read some other posts on this site and it really is clear that the Icelanders blame the British (people and government) for their current mess. Whatever the role played by the UK authorities, they were acting to protect their citizens' savings suffering the same fate as those in Landesbanki. The bulk of the blame lies with the Icelandic government and the Icelandic banks for lending too much too quickly. I think from the messages on this board that it is not safe for a UK citizen to even visit Iceland on holiday, judging by the hate filled messages I read. I'm already booked to go to Iceland, but I don't actually want to go any more.
Simon Shaw
The only message the Icelandic PM is sending out is that he is a buffoon that sends out inconsistent messages.
The theft of British money is going to damage Iceland's standing as a country – pathetic though it is.
Stand back Icelanders and wait for the boycott of your businesses and products. 300,000 people in the UK can make your economy hurt.
Return our money thieves.
Burning my english passport
i hope the Icelanders sue the british gov to hell, it was a discusting act of pure stupidity,
time to step down Gordon
The Icelandic Banks (or Government) froze the foreign Bank Accounts and let their own people draw money out.
Gordon Brown froze Icelandic Banks so that savers in the UK could get their money back.
What's the problem?
Now Iceland is borrowing money wherever it can, would these loans come under the title of "subprime lending" I wonder?
Doggy, Bob Smith, Paul M, Peter, Jim 555 (and some duplicates):
The facts are not with 'The Brown Version'. Like all EEA members (and Switzerland also), Iceland is signed up to the EU directive 94/19/EC – a minimum deposit guarantee for savers of EUR 20,887 (£16,300) for each account holder, foreign or not. Note the word minimum. Darling (current) and Brown (previous) Chancellor of the Exchequer of course know this.
Darling lied about being told different by the Iceland government when cornered in a BBC GMTV interview, and the subsequent actions of Brown were based on this lie – that Iceland's government had said it would not honor its obligations.
In fact the Icelandic government has always maintained they would pay. Further, Landsbanki was not transferring any assets away from the UK, in fact the opposite.
You may wonder therefore wonder why Brown decided to escalate based on such an obvious lie. A lie that led to the freezing of assets of Landsbanki, and the seizing of Kaupthing Singer & Friedlander by the UK's FSA, ironically at almost the same hour that Kaupthing's management was awaiting incoming wires that would have without a shadow of a doubt demonstrated its solvency.
Well, as well as the obvious "Falklands moment" his actions serve a further purpose. That purpose is to crush the credibility of the Scottish Nationalist Party (SNP) in time for the Scottish Glenrothes by-election, and beyond. Brown is MP for next-door Kirkcaldy & Cowdenbeath, and the SNP now hold a minority government in the Scottish Parliament. This has been a huge thorn in Brown's side for over a year.
One of the SNP's planks for Scottish independence is joining the "arc of prosperity", of which Iceland is a large part. Brown (as he did* in The Times yesterday) can now attack Salmond with vigor after having conveniently demolished Iceland's economy.
Brown took a lie by Darling and opportunistically turned it into British government policy in order to gain political capital against the Scottish Labour party's enemies in Scotland. Depositors in Landsbanki Guernsey and Kaupthing's Isle of Man subsidiary and all the others hurt by this are just acceptable collateral damage to Brown. Q.E.D.
* "Gordon Brown says bailout was not possible without Union" by Angus Macleod, Scottish Political Editor, in The Times, 15th Oct 2008:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/scotland/article4945321.ece
Its remarkable how Icelanders can blame their customers and victims for Iceland problems. The UK government is perfectly entitled to take whatever means possible to protect its economic interest.
Thats why they have a written law to enable it.
Iceland too, believes in this principle as it demonstrated in the Cod Wars, using violence to take what it consider its own. I sure every Icelander will agree that defending your nation and putting it before other countries needs is the right thing to do, your PM agrees. The UK did exactly the same as Iceland.
"3. Lack of some tourist from some UK madness will break Icelandair, how you are so sure or you just so desperately wish? rest assure Icelandic economy does not depend on you."
The Icelandic economy is 75% services, which I assume is banking. Now that has now gone, you will get used to the fact that the Icelandic economy does depend on tourism and fishing. Throwing insults at your customers is no way to help yourself, as the only real growth potential is tourism.
I was considering visiting Iceland but the anti-British sentiment is off putting.
Martin, maybe the Swedish bank met the Swedish solvency rules while KSF did not meet the UK FSA rules – they are separate banks and separate sets of rules. The FSA assessment is a technical one and they would certainly be in trouble if they allowed KSF to continue trading in breach of the rules.
I should point out there was a big run on KSF prior to shutdown because it was perceived to be Icelandic and therefore at risk. Also KSF was the the third small British bank to be taken over by the British government in similar cisrcumstances.
Pedro - Luxembourg
Andy, thanks for one of the few good and objective comments in this otherwise rather biased environment.
One thing i would like to add, regarding the repeated allegations, Kaupthing had a multi-billion defict:
(…and i am sure i have forgotten some…)
The ones that survived this were either nationalised or taken over. All of them had published significant losses due due write-downs on their sub-prime assets, so-called toxic waste. Kaupthing was virtually not invested into this toxic waste, except for some very small and negligible exposure. And, just for the protocol, RBS has a balance sheet total which is larger than the GDP of Britain and is roughly 60 times bigger than Kaupthing)
In the first 6 months of 2008, Kaupthing realised a net profit of EUR 313 million, and the bank has never produced losses in the years before.
Ask yourself if a bank of "incompetent managers and thieves" could have survived so much longer than all the banks i have mentioned before, if it was in such a bad shape. But, as Andy said, NO BANK IN THE WORLD can survive a bank run.
All this is a CRYING SHAME, IT STINKS TO HEAVEN and i can only hope that this case will lead to a full-scope investigation that will reveal the facts and finally lead to justice.
Feel free to discuss my points on a constructive level with resonable arguments, for anything else, please post it to the Sun.
Jim 555
To Amy:
For me it is about money. 300000 UK savers have been locked out of their accounts whilst Haarde assured his own people that their savings are safe. The Icelandic government nationalised Icesave and then froze accounts – accounts of charities such as the 'childrens hospice', accounts of hospitals, accounts of councils, accounts of universities. These institutions are loosing not just their money, but also interest their money would have earned. The Dutch have a similar scenario and are currently considering suing the Icelandic government, by the way; your government might also be facing a similar scenario from victims in Guernsey and other places.
For 24 hours we were glued to the internet, to the television to see whether Haarde reassures us about our savings – nothing, except for letting us know that Icelandic savings are safe whilst ours aren't…etc. we were very obviously not on his list of priorities.
For Brown and Darling it was about money, about their people's hard earned life savings which were wiped out without any warning or consultation! I'm grateful to the UK government that they guaranteed 100% of our savings and that they are trying (rather competently) their best to make sure that our money is safe in such a crisis situation.
Justice? Pride? Is sueing the British government really a priority over and above making sure that your own people are safe?
My gutt feeling as a parent is that before anything else, I make sure that my kids are safe – if this means using the money to feed them rather than to spend it on asserting my pride, I know what I would priorities. I trust politicians who show similar motivations. I distrust politicians who are obviously not bothered. Haarde was not bothered about foreign savers; spouting threats and suing other governments in such a fragile situation also suggests that he is not bothered about his own people.
Given that Iceland is a country in serious turmoil, at the brink of bankruptcy, I really think Haarde should focus on looking after his people rather than trying to pacify his seemingly hurt national pride…How does this go anyway with taking a £100million loan from the UK whilst suing the UK – is this a proud gesture? Will he use the £100 million loan to sue the UK?
What I'm missing from the comments is Icelanders' anger with their own government. Is this not the same government which left the rich bankers to do as they pleased whilst screwing their own people? I presume Haarde was in charge then too? Where are these bankers at the moment – are they getting sued by the Icelandic government too?
Let us contrast the actions of the UK government with those of Sweden, which also had a large subsidiary of Kaupthing operating in its country. The Swedish financial services authority carried on an extensive investigation of Kaupthing's financial position and concluded it was solvent. In light of this finding, the Riksbank provided it with a bridge loan in order to avert a liquidity crisis. If the UK's FSA had done its homework, it would have come to the same conclusion, and the BoE could have provided Kaupthing Singer and Friedlander with a similar facility. It would certainly have been in Britain's interest to do so, given the exposure of many UK companies to this bank and the extensive deposits in offshore savings accounts with no guarantee scheme. Had the BoE followed the Riksbank's lead, we would not have many of the problems we are looking at today. But this was not an option because Gordon Brown decided that this was the perfect oppotunity to create a Falklands moment to escape from his desperate political situation. What could be easier than to lash out at a small country and portray it as a villain! I am so ashamed to be living in this madhouse of a country and can only hope that the Icelandic government's lawsuit is successful and brings HMT to its knees!!!!!
One must also remember this is new territory many countries are walking on. The Capitalistic, deregulation etc has affected banks all over the world. The cause of course began in the US. Each country is attempting to handle it in their own way, to protect their own people. Never lose sight of the cause. What is happening now is all new ground. So lets not get our panties in a bunch. Capitalism sucks the big one and implodes on itself eventually. It is not sustainable. Corporations have too much power and the people have to little. Capitalism is the next best thing to Elements of Fascism include:
* Powerful idea of nationalism
* Powerful executive control in government
* Lower human rights outlook
* Military reigns supreme
* Corporations wield great power
* Idea that National Security is at great risk to some threat
* Identifying of enemies/scapegoats that unifies citizens in Patriotism
* Mass media controlled by State and Corporations
* Fixed elections
* Rampant corruption
* Unlimited power held by police force
Everyone has a right to be stupid. Some just abuse the privilege.
Andrea Efstathiou
Unbowed Icelandic PM sends a strong message to UK « Did You Know
[…] Source Published in: […]
To John:
"The law used was the 2001 anti-terrorism, CRIME and SECURITY Act which states CRIME, Icesavers were locked out of their accounts and the UK government could see problems with Icelandic banks and acted as swiftly as they could."
1. Wasn't that by that time Kauphing was still an independant bank? What has it then anything to do with Landsbank and Icelandic government? Now my personal shares of Kauphing become worthless, and many Icelandic and othe people must have suffered much more lose, should they just keep silent and let the injusticness walk away because they are not UK citizens?
2. You mean UK government could SEE problems and acted swiftly, is that the proper way a government should behave? Can any other country do the same to UK just by that kind of "SEEING"?
As a point of correction, the UK government took no action against Kaupthing. Its action was against Kaupthing, Singer and Friedlander, a British bank that no longer met solvency requirements. The fact that Kaupthing was a shareholder (who sold most of its shares just before the crash apparently) is neither here nor there.
I was a shareholder in Northern Rock, another failed bank. Should the UK have kept it going because I was liquid?
Scottish Icesaver
The chronology of events last week was
1. Icelandic Government nationalised Lansbanki hf and froze the accounts of customers with addresses outside Iceland. Customers of the bank with Icelandic addresses continue to be able to withdraw from their accounts and have had their deposits guaranteed by te Icelandic govrnment.
2. The UK chancellor (finance minister) said that in his discussions with his Icelandic counterparts they had indicated that they did not have the intention of refunding UK Icesave depositors. At the same time he guaranteed UK Icesave depositors.
3. The UK government froze the assets of Landsbanki hf in the UK. I dont think so called anti terror legislation was used in this case (may be wrong).
4. In anticipation of the same thing happening with Kaupthing the UK Financial Services Authority closed the UK operations of Kaupthing. No anti terror legislation here. They also froze Kaupthing hfs assets in the UK using so called anti terror legislation.
There's been a lot of political manouevering and posturing by both governments which will hopefully be clear in the weeks and months to come e.g. Darlings interpretation of the icelandic governments statements and Haarde's actions that were discriminatory against Laandsbanki hfs customers depending on their address.
I've never visited Iceland but hope to visit this beautiful country and its great people sometime in the future.
I agree with John about Iceland putting off tourists. I'm going to Iceland next week, I've always loved the place and the people. Whether it was right or wrong to seize the assets of Kaupthing, I expect some lawyers will make a lot of money answering that over the next few years. What I do know is I've been reading some really hateful messages from Icelanders directed not just towards the British government, but towards the British people. Am I going to be welcome there? I wonder. Last time I was in Iceland there were Brits everywhere. The UK is Iceland's biggest export market for it's biggest product, cod. The UK could one day be a huge customer for Iceland's energy. The only way for Iceland to get out of this mess is to build a real economy, based on exports of real stuff, and based on tourism. This is what made them wealthy even before the banks came along and drove the whole country to ruin. You can blame the British government by all means, they are not very popular here either. Please don't blame the British people, or the blameless tourist arriving on your shores next week.
banks operate by leveraging savings and wholesale money market borrowings (Short term) and lending them out over the longterm (eg mortgages). Enough funds are kept to cover deposit requirements so for every $1 put in the bank might keep 8 cents and lend the rest. No bank can survive if their is a bank run. As we currently have a liquidity crises, then all banks with relinace on the wholesale markets have problems which required a lender of last resort eg like the UK goverment just did. Iceland did not have a big enough lender of last resort – serious regulatory failing potentially.The description of a bank with the guarantee of the govt and billions of euros deficit is not accurate. The UK govt only guarantees funds up to 50k at the moment and Iceland has guaranteed the first 15k euros. Billions in deficit – well, if you have to complete a fire sale of assets under the current global economic circumstances then you will take a very big hit. The FSA decision to recommend take over of Kaupthing UK assets may not stand up to legal scrutiny. I am no lawyer, but the use of criminal legislation presumes some form of criminal investigation. the alternative view is that the UK govt is happy to use such legislation as it wants to sieze such assets as it wants without recourse to the courts. The London financial centre works because people assume that rule of law is applied. This episode may cast doubt on that assumption.
Is ICENEWS the Icelandic version of the UK paper the 'Sun'
Iceland cannot be trust as a UK business owner with significant business interests in Iceland I will be withdrawing from there market completely.
Seems the Icelandics prime ministers words will put off tourists from the UK madness! Actions speak louder than words, repay in cheap electric to UK and "a still tongue makes a wise head". or lack of tourists could break Icelandair. The law used was the 2001 anti-terrorism, CRIME and SECURITY Act which states CRIME, Icesavers were locked out of their accounts and the UK government could see problems with Icelandic banks and acted as swiftly as they could. So stop bleating about the Act thats been used as 30p in the pound return on your savings is dreadful. Also so much for the Iclandics goverment making a guarantee to the IOM government that all savings would be covered.
A bank with the guarantee of the Government and with billions of Euro's deficit, is insolvent. It cannot be allowed to operate because that is the definition of bankruptcy. Iceland is in deficit for $10billion this year alone, its un-viable even if it had not just lost 75% of its GDP.
Peter – not sure that is what PM said. Iceland will pay the passport statutory payment of 15000 Euro per acount. PM said Iceland would not take on burdens of the entire banking system. The paasport scheme costs are about $3.7Bn to cover Icesave and Edge. The entire banking system would be $120Bn for a country with a GDP of approx $20Bn.
The UK assets of the Icelandic banks may cover this passport requirement and additional UK creditors. If it does, then the requirement to use the criminal part of the terror legislation may have been excessive. That would be too late for Iceland which is now looking at 5-10% GDP drop, 18 months recession and an increase in unemplyment of up to 4%,
"It is not about money, it is about claiming justic and dignity.
Maybe super power will still have to think over against even a small nation next time in the future."
It is about money, what else would it be about?
Am sure the UK would do exactly the same again, there is few in the UK who are going to protest about protecting the saving of it citizen from foreign seizure. In fact, the British action will probably be seen as a perfect example of responding to a foreign nations default.
"European media say that use of anti-terrorist law against another NATO country would be unthinkable with a bigger country."
The laws was not anti-terror, it deals with economic damage by a foreign nation, such as a default. A bigger country wouldn't have defaulted and wouldn't have had such untenable financial position. You can be absolutely certain they would have been used against any country, including USA if required.
"Siesure of any assets should be done through the appropriate legislation. This diminishes Londons reputation as a financial centre."
The appropriate laws were used they were written for the exactly this situation, to prevent economic damage.
I can understand the feelings of Icelanders in this matter, and I sincerely hope that they will find a way to deal with their crisis. I am also slightly disappointed that there is no voice from continental Europe (as opposed to Scandinavia) that offers material help to Iceland which is part of Europe and also (at least up to a certain degree) part of the Common Market.
Still, I really do not think that Iceland's government is acting very prudently at the moment. Instead of going to court in order to sue Britain, one the world's major powers, Iceland should try to persuade Britain to help Iceland to get out of this mess. Currently, Iceland certainly does not need any additional conflicts with powerful countries like the UK, but the help of countries like Britain.
Furthermore, it is by far a much too simplistic view to place all the burden of responsibility for the failure of Kaupthing upon the action taken by the British government. Actually, I do not think, this claim cannot be taken seriously, I am afraid. After what happened to (and with) Icesave I do not think there were many options left for the British government especially after the chairman of the central bank of Iceland said there would be no compensation for foreign customers of Icelandic banks. I am actually a little bit surprised that the German government does not seem to be interested in this whole matter even though there are quite a lot of German customers, too. With one notable exception: The German Financial Supervisory Autority Bafin has also freezed the money in Kaupthing Edge Germany. It is slightely strange that this action does not irritate anyone in Iceland, quite in contrast what happened in the relationship to Britain.
My personal assumption is that this is largely due to the difficult history of the relationship between these two countries. The Cod wars are not forgotten.
Let me just say that I really love all the nordic countries. What I have said about your government and youur banking system is certainly not meant to criticise your fabulous country. I just think that your government does not act very convincingly at the moment.
Lies, lies, lies.
Lenka Vaiglova
I would like to remind that rude and insulting comments will NOT be approved. Also, please stick to the topic.
Lenka, IceNews
"Then HM Treasury assumes control of Kaupting, Singer & Friedland. A completely separate company who had nothing to do with Landisbankinn, and sells it at 60% discount to the ING. Do you understand what I wrote Bob?"
Banks are guaranteed by the Government, once that grantee is removed, the government is in default and any other banks or assets can be seized.
This is especially so, given Iceland incestuous relationship between companies banks and government.
The Islandic PM makes it quite clear that he refused to honour the banks debt –
"It was, therefore, clear that it was neither sensible nor feasible for the Icelandic state to shoulder the burdens of the entire banking system."
That is why the all Icelandic banks had to be closed down and asset's seized. The UK has been fully justified by this admission of guilt.
To Jim 555:
Doggy: I fear people like you more than I fear terrorists, and you pose a greater danger to ordinary people. It's is people like you that want's us all to live in a police state. I wish they could bend terror laws and lock you away too, preferably someplace without internet.
Besides it looks like instead of Being Browns Falklands moment it is turning into his Vietnam :)
Since he will find no sympathy for his actions anywhere in Europe.
I'm glad the Icelandic government has enough money to pay lawyers rather than help their own people…
The thing is the UK government used the anti-terror laws NOT because Iceland was seen as a terror threat, but soley because that legislation was the quickest to use to freeze the assets. The whole terror aspect of it has been blown out of proportion and the Icelandic government has hooked on to it are now IMO milking it.
Personally I think I'm being very reserved on this all, I had 400,000 euro in ICESAVE, not having access to my funds has totally wiped me out financially. At the moment I only have appox £200 to my name.
The difference between the Icelandic banks and other banks was no lender of last resort. The UK FSA initiated the demise of landsbanki and the ill concieved comments from The Icelandic central bank led to the UK govt decision to siexe Kaupthing UK assets. The Icelandic banks were walking a tightrope ina strong wind and the UK pushed. Siesure of any assets should be done through the appropriate legislation. This diminishes Londons reputation as a financial centre.
The comment I'm seeing from the Icelandic government now if anything are doing far more harm to relations than the actions of our governments.
GreatDane unfortantly for myself I was on the Aldgate tube that was blown up on the 7th July, seeing someone dieing in front of your eyes with there legs blown off is something I wish to never see again and as I result yes I do embrace anti terror laws !
European media say that use of anti-terrorist law against another NATO country would be unthinkable with a bigger country. Iceland has been victim, and humiliated. Brown attacked when Iceland was in its weaker point, and HE knew that would sink more. Brown used this because Iceland is a small country, and of tiny political-economic-military weight, and if plan came out well, this would come many whole numbers to him.
Definitively he is only a charlatan.
It is completely untrue to say that Gordon Brown's action to freeze Icelandic assets in the UK caused the collapse of Kaupthing.
When IceSave collapsed and European savers could not access their money, please tell me what person would not immediately withdraw their money from Kaupthing?
Mind you, it was public knowledge by that point that Iceland was over their head.
Kaupthing's collapse was eminent as UK savers rapidly withdrew their savings from a failing banking system.
If anything the UK stopped further damage.
When the "canary in the coal mine" starts to choke, better put on your oxygen mask.
Lion in the North
God bless all Lawyers!!
It's good to know that there's somebody to turn to in a crisis.
The world's 2nd oldest profession.
The poor, soft, delicate people of Iceland are apparently too weak to stand up and admit their own mistakes. Instead, they claim "A big boy did it and ran away."
They perhaps think that this "wounded troll" act is endearing. But thieves cannot truly be endearing and, make no mistake, thieves are what the Icelandic government are. Common, skulking, grabbing, robbing, thieves. The several thousand pounds that I deposited in my Icesave account is MINE, not theirs. They have NO right to withhold those funds from me and the evil complicity of the Icelandic prime minister in effectively embezzling these funds makes him and his country a legitimate target for criminal legislation of whatever kind.
I think it takes alot of nerve to blame the British government for any of this. They have simply tried to prevent British savers money from disapearing. All those Icelanders claiming that Gordon Brown has done this for political gain should maybe look at how their PM has done. He has attacked the UK to shift blame from himself and his broken promises. I think the use of the terrorist laws is quite fitting. Anybody who still believes He had every intention of honouring the 100% garauntee he gave in the days before the bank went bust is living in cloud cookoo land.
Listen Bob! Iceland didn't freeze anything! Landisbankinn a privately owned company froze Icesave, are you with the story so far Bob?
Ok on to act 2.
lost my money
Please remember the Icelandic PM stated he would take care of Icelandic savers in Landsbanki only
I agree that Iceland is trying to divert the blame to the UK.
However, it was Iceland that first froze UK assets: 4.8 billion dollars of UK savers' money. The UK simply froze Iceland's assets in return and in order to defend UK savers.
Moreover, Iceland was defaulting on their obligation to pay out the minimum deposit insurance (€20,887) to the UK savers. Thus, adding further justification to Gordon Brown's decision.
with anti-terror laws in hand British police can shoot you in the head and get away with it. England is a very frightening place at the moment!!
doggy: you could also choose to embrace the fact the Gordon Brown, is a desperate man who wil do anything to win his falklands moment.
Just got to say with comments from the Icelandic PM as above do nothing to eaise relations, I am so angry with his comments.
All this cr*p about the UK government acting underhand it was the Icelandic government that did that. They froze UK assets first, the UK then did the same it just happened to be easier to use the terror law we had to do it. The Icelandic government are a total failure and they just trying to divert blame, if the UK government hadnt done what it did, the Icelandic government would of just done the same to the KE accounts as they did with ICESAVE.