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HardForum Tech News
Tesla's New Tabless Electrode Battery Cell Patent Is 'Way More Important Than It Sounds' says crazy-person Elon Musk
Thread starter KarateBob
batteries cars patents tesla
MikeTrike
Nafensoriel said:
@MikeTrike
Just because you can charge on 120v doesn't mean it will become standard. The reality is once enough EVs hit a market you will see builders start to include chargers into the house itself at sale. Then you'll see code changes to regulate the obvious cheap bastards this will bring out. A 15amp charge cycle on 120v doesn't automatically make it less stress either. When grids are designed they tend to assume a downcycle at night where they can do things like drop a plant off the grid for maintenance etc. While YOU might not notice it at home when you see a large adoption of EV in an area trust me the power companies notice it and it can cause problems. Also how many people are in your situation where a 25mile night charge is sufficient?
I sure hope they will begin including ample dedicated circuits for EV charging with new builds, and perhaps my faith in grid operators is misplaced in assuming that they see a freight train coming and are making preparations (investments) for said freight train for the next 10-20-30~ years. However if they're anything like what's going on in California we might be fucked all around and can keep sucking on that sweet sweet oil after everything catches fire...
For some, L1 (36-60) miles of range a night is adequate. e.g. Myself and others like myself.
For others, L2 (120-240 miles of range a night is adequate. e.g. Not myself and people who have more serious commutes.
For regular long range folks they'll need to rely on publicly available infrastructure akin to what they do with gasoline refueling stations currently for those distance runs.
Also EV chargers are onboard, it's basically an appropriately rated circuit and receptacle with a fancy dancy extension cord to the EV of varying feature sets. I otherwise figured you simply meant a dedicated charge port or ports would be included with new homes.
If I were to bet on the long term it would be a distributed grid hybrid kinda deal to keep things in balance. Where homes have renewables plus batteries to soften the load as well as EV transport. In transition I suspect that mild to wild hybrid vehicles will be a thing for a while, especially in distance and out of civilization type scenarios.
I also really really like the idea of true energy independence. Generation, storage, and transport refueling all on my own property. I'm sure some folks hate that idea, partly because their money is tied up in the current energy non-independence things.
Supreme [H]ardness
GiGaBiTe said:
Unless they come up with a revolutionary new way to store energy, they'll hit a limit on battery range. The highest capacity current battery is something like 1700 lbs. Their 2020 car lineup has some models that weigh as much as a fully decked out F-250. Hope they got good brakes lol.
That was my whole point, we are hitting some pretty tight limits on how much energy you can pack in a li-ion battery. Yet every battery day people think Elon is magically going to come out with a battery with 2x the range.
kac77
Funny. I have a wrench that was accidentally left in a reactor for a day in my garage. Yes its radioactive but you will get more exposure from a 5 hr flight.
Um if you work at a nuclear plant and you don't know that radiation isn't a constant amongst elements we have a pretty big problem.
Nafensoriel
Limp Gawd
kac77 said:
Radiation isn't generally constant day to day for anything. That's pretty much why its called radioactive decay.
If you are talking about the wrench being chrome steel you should know that it most certainly blew hot for a week and had to be decontaminated. It's just a point of fact that everything that goes near a reactor is by no means high level waste or dangerous long term.
The panels you use for shielding can be buried in your back yard for christ sake. Unless you grind them up there is no way for the radiation to get into you and radiation in general doesn't really need all that much to block it. It's not a magical force that extends miles and pollutes entire rivers due to contamination like say benzine. It contaminates its current location exclusively and for a very short range.
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GiGaBiTe
Really? Funny. I have a wrench that was accidentally left in a reactor for a day in my garage.
Can't tell what is more terrifying, you having something that was in a reactor core, the reactor core needing a wrench to be fixed, or your lax attitude about "lol stuff fell inside the reactor is no big deal". Really hope people like you are the exception and not the norm in the nuclear industry.
If you also think nuclear doesn't make money... oh boy you drank the koolaid. I used to work in nuclear. Trust me they make absurd money. As in hundreds of thousands to millions per day money in profit dollars. All the cost is up front. The fuel is pennies and the maintenance of newer reactors is a joke compared to say.. something that burns sulphur loaded natural gas. Only reason natural gas wins at the moment is you can slap one of those suckers up in a year from blank paper and NG is dirt cheap.
"Trust me, I'm in the industry and totally don't have conflicts of interest MONEY IS EVERYWHERE ANYONE WHO SAYS OTHERWISE IS A LOONEY!" - Uh, no.
According to the EIA (https://www.eia.gov/uranium/marketing/), it cost an estimated 1.7 trillion dollars in 2018 to procure the ~48 million pounds of uranium required by all reactors operating in the US, and an additional 1.5 billion dollars for the ~13 million pounds of processed uranium to be used in reactors. So it costs over $3 trillion dollars to fuel all of the plants in the US alone, what was that about fuel being pennies?
And according to everyone else, nuclear plants have either never been profitable, or have recently become unprofitable and require taxpayer funded bailouts to keep them afloat. The nuclear oligarchies that run these unprofitable plants also don't want to share their financials with the public, they just want bailout money. They also have a predictable pattern of threatening plant closures unless the local government gives them money, in which they will keep operating at the designated fixed terms of the bailout agreement, then threaten another plant closure shortly after it expires ad nauseum.
https://web.archive.org/web/2020040...tudy-slams-nuclear-power-business-case-49596/
https://www.ucsusa.org/resources/nuclear-power-dilemma
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/nuclear-power-wont-survive-without-a-government-handout/
https://www.cleveland.com/open/2019...y-solutions-says-it-cant-tell-the-public.html
https://www.forbes.com/sites/scottc...money-states-find-they-cant-afford-to-say-no/
Sorry, but you have absolutely no clue what you're talking about.
The Navajo nation, two countries and a few US states called and said you have no idea what you're talking about.
There are different types of radiation. You cannot compare radiation from say a radio telescope to that of plutonium.
/snip
Bahahahahahaha No.
GDP are gone for the most part.. enrichment is waaaay cheaper than it used to be. There are also disturbingly wrong assumptions in that article. Nuclear fuel is cheap. About 3 bucks a pellet. You also replace it after 18-24mo typically. If you use a really narrow time scale for producing said fuel you can make it look really expensive... but average over the actual amount of time the fuel is in the reactor is quite literally pennies.
Bruce power in Ontario makes more than 4 billion dollars in profit per year to the provincial coffers. France makes even more and their power plants can handle rapid grid load shifts(IE they don't really need natural gas backup.. they can serve as baseload AND surge).
That video wasn't purely nuclear waste in the traditional sense. You are talking about American nuclear which is the dark child of the nuclear industry. Your reactors are a joke. Your safety early on in development was nonexistent. You are still cleaning up that mess. That mess doesn't get created anymore however since the technology is here and we now know the risks and have innumerable ways to avoid them. There is also a TON of "bomb" production that was hidden as reactor waste. That crap isn't safe. Nuclear bomb waste is an entirely different bag of hell. Modern storage for waste is basically 10 foot tall white boxes or pools. No one does the old metal barrel filled with purreed nuclear waste and liquid glass anymore(except maybe russia)
Let me also point out you have a serious misunderstanding of reactors. A PWR vs say.. a candu6 is like an aboriginal with a stick vs a US Marine.
If you have an issue with PWR America uses being inefficient pieces of crap... I suggest you talk to your senators and governors and get an actual safe, proven, clean reactor and not one built in the 70s with lipstick, ducttape, and a prayer.
As to profit... Bruce dumps close to 50gwh/y into the Canadian grid. Electricity in that province costs about 12.5c/kwh. Funny story too... They have a capped sell cost and STILL ARE PROFITABLE. If they could sell at retail price they would be MORE profitable. I know Frances reactors are also very profitable since they SELL power at a profit nationally(in the 1970s they had to buy power btw). American companies generally run at a loss because of the political and business agreements made during their construction. They have been restricted from actually reacting to power alternatives that a]give away power to intentionally cut into markets or b] can operate close enough in cost to be directly competitive. In Americas nuclear landscape no your power plants are not profitable.. but not because of the plants themselves(even though your reactors are terrible). This is when you see your reactor owners begging states for bailouts. Really stop focusing on a tiny part of a very big world.
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Microwave is a radiation. So is light! Photons are... radiative!
Actually you can compare them. One is measured in μeV... the other is measured in MeV.
Reactions: Armenius
They don't affect the human body the same.
This is productive.
You're really not convincing me or anyone else by dismissing authoritative articles as nonsense. You're also dismissing your own arguments by contradicting yourself with exceptions to most of what you say. Moving the goalpost does not an argument make.
The first source is actually for nuclear reactors in Europe, so I don't see how this is a US only issue.
Reactions: Wierdo
By trying to use US reactors as a benchmark you basically create a situation where both answers are correct.
The US plants were mostly constructed with government assistance with provisions to sell their product at a greatly reduced rate. This means when someone comes along and sells excess solar at cost or below the nuclear power plant "loses" money. Solar and wind are both HEAVILY subsidized in the USA at the moment and due to those incentives they can undercut the government market price on nuclear and operate at a technical loss while still making money due to said subsidies. In short in America nuclear loses money because you spend tax payer dollars on making nuclear lose money and artificially prop up solar without reason.
Frankly America was stupid when they set these contracts up. They did not allow for the possibility of anyone undercutting them. Over half of the USA reactors could make (significant) money if allowed to sell at market rate. In this case its not nuclear thats the problem its your politics.
For the rest of the world nuclear is far from "losing money". Canada and France both make money. This is especially true for candu types due to America being dicks back in the early days and refusing to share enriched uranium. They dont use enriched uranium. Kinda throws a wrench into your earlier statement about how enrichment is somehow making everything not viable...
This isn't really up for debate no matter what Forbes says unless you want to go down conspiracy theory land where governments cover everything up and no one ever blows the whistle on that crap. These things make profit.
The next stage of nuclear is actually something called Small modular reactor or SMR. These are actually systems that are built assembly line style and setup on site. Going this route has obvious advantages of cost, safety, part compatibility, and a huge reduction in operation complexity. A general rollout of aSMR would obsolete every power plant currently deployed on earth in overall efficiency. It's also exactly what is happening with many countries.
I dismiss your articles because they are very narrowly focused on US plants under the aforementioned contract limitations. It's a unique case and does not represent nuclear as a whole. The one article that touches a non USA plant is talking about 1000Mwh plants... which are obsolete technology by decades and yes in todays reality building a single monolithic reactor is really really dumb. Current ones have less margin to play with but new ones would never reach ROI. We dont build giant units anymore. The downtime is murderous.
We now build smaller units so we can roll them or even shut them down to save costs. Every article you presented just doesn't reflect actual reality beyond a very narrow piece of the pie. Hell one of them shows france shutting down all its reactors when this is point blank completely and utterly false. They are talking about building NEW reactors for christ sake.
@kac77
We are talking about a wrench.
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Wierdo
[H]ard|Gawd
Back on topic, some recent extra nerdy technical exploration/analysis of Tesla's battery day advancements:
Looks like they're hiding some of their secret sauce, this episode of the ongoing series explores part of the cell level gains and the options it opens up to their engineers.
Apparently they've accelerated the previously projected progress in market-ready battery technology - so barring ongoing lab research initiatives - by around five years.
Why people - and particularly experts - consistently miss market disruption, a look at human history of disruptions by Tony Seba, and the common objections and complaints during the S curve period:
Reactions: MikeTrike
cdabc123
Wierdo said:
Why people - and experts - consistently miss market disruption, a look at human history of disruptions and the common objections and complaints, some things never change:
Hahahaha. Did you buy bitcoin when it was less the 100? How could you not have seen it coming? Some markets/stocks/cryptos are set up closer to ponzi schemes where they only work out well if enough people support it for long enough for it to materialize. That is the case for tesla and as far as making money on "investments" like this it really depends on what stage of the scheme you got in on. With that said tesla has now materialized into a company and eventually there stock will be based more on the preformance of the company rather then continued fud/hype drawing in stupid money. When that happens the stock will suffer a nice reevaluation and we shall see if they have materialized enough to justify it.
cdabc123 said:
Hahaha indeed, see you in three years. Three years ago I was here when clowns were talking about Tesla failing, and now the company's bigger than Exxon. People were not shocked when the company consistently doubled in growth for ten years without the stock adjusting, and now they're bewildered about why it suddenly corrected for the realization of their market leadership.
Today some of those old folks complain that the adoption curve can't possibly be anything but linear, despite past history showing this to never be the case, they'll be proven wrong as usual, but by then they'll pretend they knew it all along.
The fact that you responded to a half hour presentation within a few minutes shows how much brain power you used to think about the subject. But I put that video for those who can use theirs.
Technology convergence, the consistent historical S curves, the disruption always coming from the outside, these are the facts of life, adapt or die.
Look I'm fine with people missing the boat, my retirement is already covered by long-term investment decisions, big time. It's not my concern if others stumble over their inflated egos on the path to success.
But it's just fun to geek out over the specifics.
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The fact that you responded to a twenty minute presentation within a minute shows how much brain power you used to think about the subject. But I put that video for those who can use theirs.
I couldnt stand the last useless links you posted so I didnt even bother looking at the video. I still do find it entertaining when people praise a company without understanding why that company is it the position it is.
You are literally only viewing the information that aligns with your investments and I hope that works out for you but its a poor investment strategy. And yet you feel the need to climb to the top of the highest hill you can find and yell to everyone how your investment strategy is so fantastic.
Stocks do not represent the value of a company they represent a whole lot of other bs. And I guess I'll see ya in three years with some crypto in my pocket as I support well set up schemes as well. Just a fyi there will still be ice vehicles and ice car companies doing just fine in three years and I would absalutley take that bet (I would also say tesla should be doing just fine as a car company in three years)
Hence why I said you are not the target of this discussion, the people riding the trend are, the Ron Baron style of long-term investors. This kind of information assumes prior knowledge about what's going on in that market, as well as no old (culture/industry/career) baggage getting in the way of having a fresh look at things.
Aging industry veterans of the combustion century, and those out of this recent technology convergence loop, will naturally behave as those before them did during times of disruption, deny and protest simply out of desperate self preservation.
That denial didn't help Nokia, didn't help Blockbuster, didn't help coal, sure as hell wont be different for transport.
Allot of advancements are converging and pushing for this change, it's not just EV technology, it's a big wave of technological and industrial advances coming together.
Just a fyi there will still be ice vehicles and ice car companies doing just fine in three years and I would absalutley take that bet (I would also say tesla should be doing just fine as a car company in three years)
You really wanna bet we wont see some bailouts, consolidations or bankruptcies in the ICE market before 2025? Ok I'll shake your hand on that bet. Already seeing some early signs today with companies like Ford abandoning almost everything but their last stronghold in the truck market more or less, we better save up to pay for their upcoming bailout check, too big to fail you know.
2025-2030 should be the most interesting, probably the eye of the storm. Would hate to be Mazda's CEO by then unless they shape up quick.
RPKYGK
Weaksauce
MikeTrike said:
I sure hope they will begin including ample dedicated circuits for EV charging with new builds\
Building code in Kingston (where I am) already has included EV rough in's for all new builds.
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Ready4Dis
lol, now that's funny... of course you're going to see that, that's been going on for the last 100+ years and it's not going to magically stop . I think he was saying in general, the ICE market is still going to be healthy, not that a company or two won't struggle, as they have been struggling BEFORE tesla became a thing so there is no reason to think they won't continue to struggle. You add all those stipulations into the bet and of course your bound to win, not on the merits of your argument, just because that's the norm and has been for a long time (not just in automobiles, but in all fields).
Anyways, that said, of course EV will disrupt the market, but it's not an overnight disruption like people seem to think about. It's a long term plan that will work until/unless someone finds a better source (hydrogen?). ICE vehicle sales will be healthy for some time to come, it's not as if they're going to just die off overnight.
Ducman69
Zarathustra[H] said:
You know, I used to think this man was competent. And maybe he was, but ever since he started consorting with celebrities and musicians he has just kind of gone off the deep end.
I can't take anything he says seriously anymore.
Not even the part where he explained that he's really just a posterchild/salesman and isn't really involved with the operation of the business direction or development on a macro level and doesn't attend most meetings? They give him some play money, but mostly just let him bring in government subsidies and sell to the people, but there's regular business management and engineers handling all of the business strategy and day to day.
Both California and NY are banning ICE by 2030 in their markets
This is the only glimpse of objective reality that you seem to be willing to recognize in your EV evangelism.
You liken ICE inferiority/EV superiority to the fall of coal energy, when the only reason that coal is no longer a viable technology is because the government for all intents and purposes banned it. We have virtually infinite stockpiles of coal and the plants were very cheap to produce and operate, without much major pollution in their later designs save for harmless carbon dioxide. The government created various laws specifically targeting coal energy to destroy the market while simultaneously massively subsidizing inferior technology that otherwise couldn't sustain itself on the market like ethanol, solar, and wind, and then pretend like that demonstrates its a superior technology. Its simply a matter of big government artificially creating winners and losers, and on some level you seem to recognize that now with the banning of ICE.
You don't need to ban a technology if it isn't otherwise the superior choice that consumers would pick if given the organic option. You have to ban a technology when you want to FORCE consumers to adopt an inferior technology that they otherwise would not consume. And just like with coal, you don't have to even outright ban a technology, you can just keep creating laws specifically intended to target the technology to reduce its efficiency and increase its costs.
There's big money in energy, and by using the government to destroy existing markets and create new ones that depend on them through circular subsidies (government gives money to industries that give money to their campaigns that give money to industries ad infinitum), a few people can become massively wealthy pushing an otherwise inferior technology that the market would not have adopted, at least not in its immature state, without all the interference hurting existing tech and elevating alternative tech.
tl;dr: If ICE were inherently inferior and EV superior, then allow the market to decide and end any and all EV subsidies immediately and there would be no need to ban or regulate ICE into forced extinction.
Reactions: Armenius and SmokeRngs
Cool man, let us know how your lithium and other heavy metal mining and battery and solar panel production operation is doing in your back yard, or are you going to be tying your money up in prepaying for electricity by being dependent on the megacorporations that will produce and lease you all that expensive equipment to store on your property, anchoring you down and making personal mobility when moving for jobs and what not every five years difficult? And I assume you want to also depend on them to produce a nationwide network of proprietary charging stations for you as well so you aren't limited to a certain radius from your anchor home? I think its pretty obvious that you're just investing on making yourself even more dependent on a new ecosystem that has less market competition and in effect greatly reduces your choices and freedom.
And, not sure if this comes as a surprise to you, but the US can already achieve true energy independence due to the vast quantities of fossil fuels and nuclear power available domestically. We have massive stores of coal, natural gas, oil, uranium (if we just built enrichment and recycling plants), to not rely on any other countries. The whole lie about peak oil, peak uranium, etc. should be pretty transparent by now, especially when we just recently reached a point where the world had so much oil we ran out of places to store it, causing the price to dip negative. It is only artificial government interference that is causing the already low prices to not be even lower, and there's no risk even without technological advancement (which is always occurring) of running out of any of these energy sources in your or your children's lifetime.
There's nothing wrong with alternative techs, but when you have to create regulations specifically intended to destroy a viable good existing technology while subsidizing the alternative, clearly it is NOT ready. Allow the free-market and consumer freedom to decide what we do and don't want, rather than saying "look, people prefer soy over beef" after putting huge subsidies on soy and creating a bunch of laws intended to make beef expensive and/or lower quality. *facepalm*
Ducman69 said:
You aren't energy independent, you are just paying for electricity in advance, and in fact drastically reducing your overall freedom. If you can't understand why, learn to read better, that shouldn't take more than 10 seconds to skim.
You smooth talker, you!
I would agree that they only way true widespread adoption will occur is if the government stepped in and forced it as like I mentioned ice vehicles do a very good job at filling the gap they are used for. I personally would object highly to the government stepping in like this and I believe alot of other people would as well. Thats why countries and states like to push the date long into the future because its not something they could currently force. If this was forced upon me I'm grabbing the cheapest used electric pickup and dropping a Detroit diesel generator in the bed to power the thing.
Automakers tend to struggle in periods of economic hardship. Tesla may not be immune to that however they are still operating as less of a company and more of a investment so that may help them if people have enough capital to throw money at stocks.
The main issue I have with solar included or forced upon homeowners is its a absalute rip off compared to the price of the panels and I'm opposed being forced to burn 10k or more just because the government says so. If you want it now it's obtainable anf thats the way it should be. If they really want to force people to adopt bring back the subsidies and let the government burn some money to support the solor industry
I would agree that they only way true widespread adoption will occur is if the government stepped in and forced it as like I mentioned ice vehicles do a very good job at filling the gap they are used for.
At present, absolutely, however, I think it would have and should have happened organically. Lithium battery technology was going to see massive investment one way or another because of all the non-automotive applications from lawn mowers, laptops, cellphones, etc. and when/if fossil fuels saw an increase, then the market could naturally adapt to alternatives as the price/benefit ratio changed over time. That's natural progression of technology and less harmful to the economy, but because there is so much money to be made from alarmism they push this sky is falling nonsense on all fronts relentlessly... you have to switch NOW or you'll DIE and you're KILLING Greta (who for some reason isn't visiting places like China, South America, India, or sub-Saharan Africa that really do need to get their act together)!
When people resort to sarcastic dismissal that were previously talkative, its a pretty clear sign they just don't see any holes in the points made, but they are too entrenched to care about flaws in their logic.
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I love seeing advancements in battery technologies as like you said they are vital to so many fields. However, that tech is advancing slowly (lithium batteries) and never will hit the energy densities possible with gas. It will be interesting to see if we ever see a oil price boom again although I would bet against it as such could easily lead to the demise of the oil industries and there are many countries out they who do not want that to happen. I forsee cheap gas till the market naturally shifts away from it as long as the government doesnt step in to artificially inflated it too substantially.
Its also worth noting that there currently is no alternative to many diesel rigs (largely due to the energy density of diesel compared to batteries) so that whole industry is resistant to shifts to exclusively electric
In my defense, your attitude gives off "pompous shitbag" vibe. Now I'm not saying that I'm not a shitbag, but FFS...
Your defense is that the substance of a post is less important than the tingles it provided you emotionally to read it? C'mon, certainly the factual accuracy is more important than the finesse of the delivery.
However, that tech is advancing slowly (lithium batteries) and never will hit the energy densities possible with gas.
You're absolutely right, although devil's advocate is that it shouldn't really need to, since electric motors are operating at 90%+ efficiency compared to ICE at about 20%. That said, that also means that a huge improvement in electric efficiency isn't possible, whereas technological innovations are likely to still see huge improvements in ICE, as long as governments aren't creating regulations intended to price plebs out of the personal mobility market entirely and into mass transit (what I'm convinced the end goal is, so that eating steaks and having your own personal transport will be the luxury of the upper classes as they price-out via regulation the plebs to live in apartments, take mass transit, and eat soy and bugs).
DWolvin
Eh, ICE has had over a hundred years of development. I don't think there are any huge advancements left (same can be said for electric motors, mind). Batteries, on the other hand may have huge leaps available, and even now are better than the naysayers want to admit. I bought my first new vehicle (6 cars, 5 motorcycles) almost 3 years ago- Tesla 3. I never hit a gas station any more (made staying quit easier ), up until this week have only needed a supercharger once (SD to Orange + driving around all day and charge on the return). It's not perfect, but it's loads better than those with an axe to grind make it out to be. Half a battery seems to be 15 - 20 minutes, and I start with 300 miles every morning. Hell, for a while a stock 3 had the coast to coast record set by a family renting one and never going more than 10 over (I think it was 46 hrs).
TLDR: there are few gains left on the movement side, but batteries may have a decent amount of room to grow.
DWolvin said:
Eh, ICE has had over a hundred years of development.
Electric batteries predate the internal combustion engine, as do electric cars.
It's not perfect, but it's loads better than those with an axe to grind make it out to be.
There are some people that will argue about anything, but for the most part people don't really care if you're a boxers or briefs guy. The problem with electric is that its not a personal choice, but one that is being forced on people. People that don't want a Tesla had to pay some of your car payments, statistically, quite a few that make less money than you, and if they objected then people with guns would come to their house to take their stuff or throw them in jail. Furthermore, even ignoring subsidies, like myself many are pissed that there are constantly new regulations put in place that if not outright banning non-electric vehicles are intended to make their cars more expensive and lower performance all else equal like Euro 7 or prohibitive fuel taxes as seen in Germany or banning non-electric vehicles from city centers like in the UK.
So you have to understand the context of some people bitching about electrics. All of my power and landscaping tools are now exclusively electric, and that's not controversial because the government wasn't interfering with anyone's choice to use a gas over electric lawnmower (at least not yet) nor forcing them to pay for part of my purchase.
A bailout is not an indicator of market failure but rather creative company accounting. Do you really think the airline bailouts actually helped the airline industry? Do you think it saved them from bankruptcy?
Reality showed us all it did was line a few peoples pockets and buy a bunch of really swank golden parachutes. Retrospective accounting showed the airlines were never in "dire straights" and would have survived just fine if they actually had to compete with one another.
In the same line if you see a vehicle company claim bankruptcy be highly doubtful. Often its a tried and true scam to sell the company while getting the government to pay for it and writing off the whole thing as a loss on the new company.
If you want to talk actual market economics you need to look at resource market trends. End tier like tesla dont really function with supply and demand anymore since retail investors started to listen to snakeoil salesmen in the market. Now if you want to actually see fundamentals in action you have to look at the resources themselves. What we see at the moment is oil growing till 2040-2050 then platueing for several decades. We see lithium falling, Nickle rising, etc... What we do not see is a huge shift in resource trends from ICE materials.
Why? Well consumer cars are chump change. Even if tesla took 100% of the market that's still not going to kill gasoline, diesel, ship diesel, or jet fuel markets. It wont even be a blip in those industries and if anything the loss of car competition will spur the freight industry to double down on ICE because it will be the defacto cheapest option. No matter how much tesla thinks it can make a purely electric truck its going to take time. The hype behind tesla stock is basically as bad as the bitcoin hype... its driving absolutely nothing because there are only so many scientists who remotely understand battery tech enough on the planet to make meaningful novel advancements. Hell there are what.. 3 actual labs that have made marketable breakthroughs in the last century? Throwing billions at something doesn't magically make it happen faster.
If you wanted to be truly environmentally conscious then get off the tesla wagon and start actually looking at ships. Ever single car on the planet could disappear tomorrow and nothing would happen climate wise. Absolutely zero.
Trucks and most especially ships are the biggest polluters world wide next to steel. The only reason people target cars is a badly worded EPA article saying 30%ish of GHG emissions came from the transport industry. What the report doesn't tell you is cars are less than 15% of that pie slice and have been for a while especially in north America/EU(where people can actually afford to drive something other than a 1977 Toyota truck). Convert the trucking and shipping industry to methanol fuel and you would have an automatic 19% CO2 reduction world wide(also a near eradication of NOx, CO, and Sulphur pollution). Funny though no one talks about that in NA/EU though because its technically a carbon consuming NATURAL GAS industry and thus evil somehow.
@DWolvin
ICE gasoline has a few percentage points that could be squeezed out of the process. Most gains would come in frame design and lightening the engines as newer lighter materials develop and 3d printing evolve.
ICE with other fuels though.... that's still very much an improvable industry. I know for an absolute fact that methanol for ships, which was once thought to be inferior to diesel, might actually be able to generate MORE usable power per gallon of fuel with improvements to the engine and generation systems that can only come from using methanol due to its combustion mechanics and storage quirks. ICE has a long way to go especially if used to power an electrical motor. We are >< this close to being able to efficiently power trucks with electric drivetrains and ICE power plants. That innovation alone makes teslas all electric trucks look stupid. Why wait to charge when you can do it more efficiently yourself anywhere any time and have effectively unlimited shipping ranges on land?
I wouldn't buy into the climate alarmism at all.
1) The climate alarmists have a horrific track history at predicting the calamities they swore would happen when crying wolf.
2) They claim that any weird climactic event, which have always happened in history, are proof of global warming while ignoring the fact that we are coming out of an ice age and that for example when the Mongolian empire twice attacked Japan in each case there were historically massive typhoons that killed tens of thousands long before the industrial age, but you and I know that if the same event happened today that CNN would tell you it happened because you're driving a Jeep Cherokee and aren't paying them carbon taxes.
3) They claim it will "destroy the planet" or "destroy all life", and if you look at the archives some examples are that polar bears were going to go extinct and acid rain was going to destroy all the trees, but there are more polar bears recorded alive today than at any time before, and a recent world satellite survey showed that there are more trees now than since the start of the industrial revolution. You can also ask any scientists "at what point in Earth's history was the planet able to support peak biomass" and they will unanimously say it was the Carboniferous period (hence the name), and then you can ask for confirmation that CO2 levels at this time were five to six times as high as today, something we couldn't achieve without the help of massive volcanic activity even if we tried, demonstrating for a fact that CO2 is not some toxic emission.
ICE gasoline has a few percentage points that could be squeezed out of the process.
Because the energy density of gasoline is so massive, and the most recent report shows that even at previous levels of global economic and population growth (which are not likely to happen) we have at minimum 250 years of oil left just with existing known supplies, with no technological innovation or exploration required, the percentage points of thermal efficiency actually aren't that important. What is important is the power to weight ratio of the powertrain.
And were it not for constant regulations trying to hurt the efficiency of ICE, we could all have pint-sized engines making 1000hp today. The 1980s, with very primitive technology particularly on the electronics and sensors side, were able to produce small light engines more powerful than anything we have today in F1. Back in 85, BMW was already pushing 1,300hp out of a tiny 1.5 liter four banger.
The engines were so efficient in a power-to-liter ratio that they ultimately had to ban them, but imagine what we'd have today if they were allowed to make 5.0 liter versions with the same lack of regulations 35 years later, we'd be seeing 5,000+hp. The only reason we think a 800hp Hellcat is impressive is because its making that power in spite of all the regulations put in place by primarily EU governments to reduce its power output.
It failed because coal was obsolete junk propped up by lobbying and tobacco style marketing campaigns.
Example, court filings reveal some of those groups paid for misinformation campaigns and shaping regional politics in favor of protecting obsolete incumbent business:
https://electrek.co/2019/12/18/bob-murray-science-denial-instead-coal-workers-wages-bankrupt/
Right now it's such a glaringly obvious matter that even corrupt lobbying can save that boondoggle.
The obsolete ICE technology is going away, that part is an obvious fact, how fast it does is the question, and many governments are not interested in delaying it.
Aside from the fact that many civilized nations are not anti-science, they also don't wanna wait for their auto industry to collapse and lose out to the competition, especially the upcoming Chinese invasion of EVs.
This wisdom does not exist in America - more on that below - but Europe will certainly put pressure on their manufacturers to keep up, despite protestations of companies like Mercedes and BMW. Ironically for VW the diesel scandal was a blessing in disguise when it comes to EVs, they'll probably make it because they themselves were lobbying for EU nations to not relax emissions rules now.
Down here the companies operate on the dim-witted wisdom of "quarterly" Wallstreet results, the executives don't really care where Ford of GM is going long-term as long as they get their golden parachutes. A bankruptcy for them is a good way to shed responsibilities anyway - just like Murray did with coal miner pensions - so who cares right?
I had a laugh earlier when someone mentioned bailouts not being a sign of a company's failure but just a "creative accounting" process, let that bizarre self immolating logic sink for a minute considering the above: In the mind of a crooked executive this is indeed true, who gives a shit about the average Joe? The system is working as intended, fail on the taxpayer's dime all you like!
When some of the grunts think the way that executive does, a self-inflicted lack of self worth, that just takes the cake lol, but here we are.
Your divorce from reality is quite astounding... you act like the coal industry, relentlessly regulated into oblivion by the government, is somehow the pet of the government and receiving massive lobby money and a barrage of media misinformation campaigns, when its so patently obviously projecting from the alternative energy industry that is getting non-stop assistance from fake news even on youtube when you're watching a video about a platapus some overweight girl with purple dyed hair and half her head shaved is talking about climate change and the need for electric cars, with billions being funneled directly and openly into massively subsidized alternative energy industries.
Its the same old tired strategy of accuse your opponent of doing precisely what you're doing right now, as a confusing distraction technique. Its like you have peanut butter all over your mouth and fingers and being outraged saying "I can't believe you're eating peanut butter", as if they aren't just talking about themselves. I guess that low-IQ type of debate strategy works on some people.
Just a moment ago there was a moment of honesty when you admitted that world governments are doing everything they can to destroy ICE technology in favor of alternative energy, and yet now you're putting your foot in your mouth acting like governments are propping them up artificially. Look, if you actually believe the two-faced nonsense you claim, then you should support any and all incentives and subsidies for electric vehicles to end today, and the war on ICE with constant punitive regulations and taxes against them to end since its an "obsolete technology" that should go away on its own, since consumers will pick the clearly superior electric options even at true market prices without massive subsidy and government perks on carpool lanes and blocking off downtown to non-electrics, massive gasoline taxes, and so forth.
Aside from the fact that many civilized nations are not anti-science
LOL, I love all the buzzwords from the ctrl-left, but "anti-science" is one of my favorite. They will admit that grant-shopping (the practice of making the desired result known in advance and funding people to reinforce that) is bad science, like the government funded studies against marijuana in which apes were given so much marijuana smoke that they suffered oxygen deprivation causing brain damage just to show the desired result that marijuana is harmful to the brain, but then the exact same grant-shopping for climate alarmism that they push is suddenly perfectly good science. In fact, all the data that contradicts it when brought to light is labeled "anti-science".... because the left has a monopoly on true-science^tm, enforced by their ministry of truth (big tech and liberal media), and any numbers that contradict that are as taboo and impermissible for the public to even hear on their platforms as questioning holocaust numbers... they even use the same verbiage as "holocaust denial" calling it "climate change denial".
I don't buy into anything. I take debates from the position of the person on the other side because they are the objective of the discussion. If the other side finds a topic important then one argues from that view point but in the direction of your presented facts.
If you ever hear anyone argue about "destroying all life" to anything... Well that's pretty much always going to be a false position. Biospheres are pretty ridiculously tough things. Complex lifeforms not so much. Civilizations less so.
I wont take a position on any side of the debate on this forum but I will say I have yet to meet a computer model of any complexity that doesn't have compounding errors or missing variables. Case in point. Picture a room full of engineers. Picture that they have spent 4 years planning every tiny detail of a billion dollar project. Picture the day(s) come to construct said project. Then picture how we have to crib in parts as we are building this meticulously designed thing with physical book sized reams of plans and prints all because we found out there were questions we didn't know to ask. That said I really hate being reactionary. It sucks. It's always more expensive in the long run.
Yeah... those reports about how much oil we have? From someone in that industry they are complete and utter horseshite.
People have tried(and utterly failed) to predict world reserves over and over. Trying to do so was described to me by men and women waaaay above my paygrade as "Trying to use 'pin the tail on the donkey' in a dark maze to measure the maze".
We've had 1000hp engines since the 1920s. Aircraft engines beat automotive to the punch a loooong time ago. Of course they had really shite power to weight ratios. Engine efficiency is not really hurt by current regulation. Honestly using an ICE to actually power a drivetrain is a really awful idea. Transmissions are horrible. What you can do with a 500lb engine I can do with a 5lb electric motor full stop all day long. Heck STEAM is more efficient AND more powerful.
What makes ICE special and the actual reason they wont go away anytime soon is more about energy density than any other factor. Let's consider a car... you could have 30gal of gasoline, 2 tons of batteries, or the weight of the car in hydrogen.(this is hyperbole...mostly)
When you need energy to be transportable and independent liquid is king and always will be no matter how dense batteries get.
The question you should be asking is: If EVs need novel materials that may never happen and gasoline has very limited room to grow.... why don't we just change the fuel so ICEs can continue to get smaller, lighter, and more efficient at their jobs?
Sometimes people get so obsessed with the new that they forget the older technology is far easier to improve if you just change one variable.
@Wierdo
China isnt really preparing for EVs...
They are preparing for methanol. They are setting the standard for methanol fuel. They have been for twenty years.
1]Very little consumer shock required.
2]Very little change to current manufacturing.
3]Environmental upsides in every single category(Worst case scenarios are 1:1 consumption to production of CO2 with less than 1% other pollutants compared to gas)
4]You can set this crap up anywhere and use just about everything as feed gas.
Oh India and Africa are more interested in china's methanol vehicles than they are EVs.. mostly because most of them can make methanol a whole heck of great deal easier than they can build the infrastructure required for electric.
America and the EU are kinda the ones with their heads stuck in the sand on this one...
Yeah... those reports about how much oil we have? From someone in that industry they are complete and utter horseshite. People have tried(and utterly failed) to predict world reserves over and over. Trying to do so was described to me by men and women waaaay above my paygrade as "Trying to use 'pin the tail on the donkey' in a dark maze to measure the maze".
The report came from the ex-CEO of BP, and you have to realize that the statement is not something that is good for the oilfield industry; quite the opposite. Its essentially explaining why they are abandoning billions in exploration, because relatively new technologies such as fracking have drastically increased cheap available known sources of oil. The US, once the world's largest importer of oil, has recently become a net exporter (prior to the COVID market disruption), just to put things in perspective.
While you may argue that the figures may be off by a few decades plus or minus, what is clear is that the fear mongering of "peak oil" (popularized in our culture by movies like Mad Max) has come and gone and proven to be another complete hoax from the left. How many hoaxes of imminent doom do we have to hear before we stop pretending they have any credibility left?
We've had 1000hp engines since the 1920s. Aircraft engines beat automotive to the punch a loooong time ago.
Its not really important for my point of "What is important is the power to weight ratio of the powertrain. And were it not for constant regulations trying to hurt the efficiency of ICE, we could all have pint-sized engines making 1000hp today." We had no engines in the 1920s with the power to weight ratio of the 1.5 liter turbocharged engines in the mid 80s F1 vehicles.
Engine efficiency is not really hurt by current regulation.
This is such a ridiculous comment considering it took us so many decades just to get back to the power levels of the 1960s thanks to punitive regulations on ICE which damn near destroyed the established automotive industry that were invested in larger vehicles, which can be likened to the asteroid that wiped out all the large dinosaurs.
EV battery technology will continue to improve and the batteries will become lighter and cheaper, which is a good thing and I support it. Gasoline and diesel are not problematic fuel sources, so I'm not sure what you're on about there. We can produce them in tremendous abundance and they have fantastic energy density, and being a liquid means recharging rates that aren't likely to be seen anytime soon on EVs. The biggest problem with ICE right now is that the landscape is ever changing, with regulations constantly and intentionally being juggled left and right, where such a moving goalpost makes engine design so complicated.
The worst culprit are the EU regulators that have no automotive knowledge and whose only goal seems to be stop the people from having affordable personal mobility, as one year they'll put in rules that hurt large naturally aspirated engines (like displacement taxes) and then the next they'll put in new laws that target small turbocharged engines, and this causes huge developmental costs for the manufacturers that have to pass that on to consumers. Porsche rightfully went on a rant about this recently, how they think their rather new turbocharged engine can no longer be viable under Euro 7 so all that money is flushed down the toilet and the catalytic converters required to meet the ridiculous regulations would be so massive as to be unviable to fit on subcompact and compact performance vehicles.
If we had the same limited regulations and taxes as in the 1960s that remained static until today, cars would be so much cheaper and higher performance, and particularly without all the artificial government interference propping up companies like Tesla, its unlikely we'd see any all electric cars on the roads yet as there just wouldn't be any market demand for it, and instead we'd just see a few mild hybrids.


Historic price data reported by Ontario Agriculture, extended by two weeks using ProphetX cash data, represents an average bid for Chatham that shows the current cash price roughly $.84/bushel CAD, or 7% below the same week in 2017, and $.60/bu. or 5% below the 10-year average.
As seen on the blue line, price has recovered from the week 35 harvest low of $10.70/bushel, to $11.07/bushel this week, although has consolidated in a narrow, sideways range over the past six weeks, with price ranging between $11.04/bu. and $11.21/bu. given weekly data reported.
While DTN's Five-Year Seasonal chart suggests that soybean futures tend to rise from early October through early July, cash prices in Ontario can tend to peak earlier. The 2018 weekly high was reported for week 10, or in early March, at $12.87/bu., while the 2017 weekly high was reached even earlier at $13.34/bu. in week 3, or roughly the week ending Jan. 20. The 10-year average (2008-through-2017) points to the highest average weekly price reached of $13.51/bu. as of week 27, or early July, which is more consistent with the peak in futures seen on the five-year seasonal chart.
The current pace of movement should play a role in price direction in the upcoming months. Week 17 licensed export data reports exports a solid 395,200 metric tons shipped through licensed facilities for the week ending Nov. 25, with cumulative exports over the 17 weeks at 2.1966 mmt, up 25% from the same week in 2017/18. Over 1.1 million metric tons is reported exported over the past four weeks, or week 13 to week 16, a significant volume when current AAFC supply and demand tables are pointing to total exports of 5.7 mmt.
Two key reports will be released on Dec. 6, which includes Statistics Canada's final production estimates as well as the October Merchandise Trade report, which will shed light on the movement of soybeans over the first two months of the crop year relative to the forecast size of the crop.
Government and media sources are suggesting that Canada could play a role in helping repair trade relations between the U.S. and China. What do you think? Feel free to share your thoughts on this week's poll, located on the lower right side of your DTN Canada Home Page.


The City of Jonesboro has a new free resource to help you stay involved in and give back to the community!
The Jonesboro Community Connection is a database that helps organizations in our area find volunteers to help with projects. Organizations can use this resource to post upcoming volunteer opportunities and individuals can use it to locate volunteer needs in our area.
To sign up your organization, or to sign up to volunteer, use the links to the left.


Our party has been steadfast and unanimous in saying that (supply management) is a system that is working for the farmers, it's working for Canada, and we should just leave it alone.
We should be more concerned with the fact that we're importing Chinese apples, and who knows what kinds of pesticides have been used to grow them there, when we have perfectly safe gown apples here in Ontario.
The most that can honestly be said about the differences between the Liberals and the PCs is that the PCs use socialism as a justification for handing out grants, loans, market protection, and special status to certain alleged nobles in society…all of whose wealth and privilege depend upon regulation of – not freedom of – the market. The Liberals, in contrast, regard a socialist system as the ideal. In short: PCs view socialism as a means to a dishonest and corrupt end, whereas Liberals view socialism as a means to a dishonest and corrupt end.


Will spleene ever make the zone board again?
Re: Will spleene ever make the zone board again???
robbygk wrote: Would anyone sell theirs????
you funny . . . would never sell my 159.
Would consider selling the 174 (maybe but probably not) as i often will choose one of my other boards (which have some volume) over it.
Interesting as I got my 174 from Ireland. Not easy boards to track down.
The Nobile board is different to the Spleene board. I have tested it for a very long time. It has less flex and so there is no rocker in the tail which is OK for early planning, but in waves you cannot play with it. It is a good board, but is definitely not the same.
Max if you would sell your 174?????
Or Rainer, I'll happily test any prototype boards you might have!
I said to my opinion..the Nobile is a better board, everyone has his choise, otherwise there would be no place for others right?, and as if the old zones were/are not available anymore the Nobile is an alternative compared to the zone....never claimed it was exactly the same shape.. but the same way of TTlike manufacturing...( if you want to have the points on the i), anything wrong about that?
Last edited by naishdude on Fri Jan 31, 2014 12:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
Hey NaishDude . . . my friend has the 5'4" nobile infinity. It is a very nice board, well built with some flex and foam rails on the deck that simulate volume and thickness. The board has rocker through-out (not sure which size nobile board Rainer looked at).
The 174 is a different story but then it should be compared to the 5'7" nobile that i have never seen.
Last edited by max on Thu Jan 30, 2014 9:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.


Joanavon had the most liked content!
Ding! Ding! Ding! This is it exactly. As it is set up now there is a decent if not better chance of a new player losing his starter kit and having no way of retrieving it from their corpse and having no idea how or why to even continue playing without the basics of the starter kit. it's also extremely discouraging to be killed by who knows what or fall off a cliff somewhere and end up even worse off than the instant you began the game. That should never be possible. It takes a bit of time and experimentation by new players for Wurm to really convey the aspects it's good at and why it's worth the effort to play. The loss of the starter tool kit alone could and does prevent that from taking place right off the get go.
This seems like an entirely reasonable and well substantiated suggestion. Theres no obvious reason why a priest doing one of the much reduced number of tasks they are allowed to should receive any more or less skill gain than a non priest performing that exact same skill in the exact same circumstances. Opposition arguments consisting of: "In games:nothing must change ever" or "Priesthood should be the same or increasingly torturous to do in order to protect and/or increase my old and legacy priest accounts potential use and/or economic viability" Are simply unreasonable and invalid.
It seems that the population of the Beaver state is apply conditioned to the gameplay of wurm.
What Do The Swedish Kids Think?
Does it matter really? I mean who cares if Swedish children are brats? besides the crux of this pseudo issue is a decline of discipline (regardless of whether it's enforced with physical punishment or non physical punishment). and the erosion of the actionable and enforceable power X parent now has over Y children versus X Parents had over him and so on. Everyone can agree that children with any measure of real Power is a bad thing. If it wasn't then children wouldn't need parents in the first place once pupped.
Your confused, you don't ask for or get an apology for being a brat. You give or offer one to your parents for being a brat after you got back up off the floor.
In a world and time where hundreds of millions of parents struggle and often times fail to keep their children from dying of hunger, disease, war and drugs. Where tens of thousands of children die daily from utterly preventable and outrageous causes. Swedish children being bossy brats is stupid, imaginary, and even if real irrelevant and correctable at any time.
Either way an in game method of connecting Villages looking for new residents with both new players looking to settle down and someone to ask questions of as well as older players looking to shake things up and would like to join an existing village rather then starting another one on their own or in addition to what they already may have done. Social engagement is the single best tool to hook new players onto wurm before the realities of starting wurm alone and unawares runs them off the game as is the case for most potential new revenue sources (players).
Wasn't he already this? or Supreme GM or something similar? Regardless, Enki's reputation for not only fairness but also common sense and integrity in action proceeds him with trumpets.
Give Pmks The Option To Turn The "hunted" Mechanics Off.
Just turn off all of the controls inside PMK's and be done with them. People still seem to be ready to throw gold coins hand over fist at them regardless of their irrelevance, investment turn around, or near complete history of collapse and complete loss the less then a year for previous versions of the product. So let them.
One of the fundamental and supremely important benefits of a sandbox game is the avalanche of content created by the players that can be leveraged by the developer to market, promote or attempt to incite media interest in some particular even or incident. Wurm isn't really harvesting the creativity of it's users in things like construction and deed design to show to potential new revenue sources the products potential. The player base of Wurm is part of the Product of Wurm Online as much as the code and the servers and the website are. Leverage it.
Pictures like these should be plastered all over the wurm online website.
The Wurmonline.Com website is in dire need of not only a refresh but also a refocus. Right now the design and content of the website, especially the landing page is rather bland ontop of not being very clear visually about the game itself. Make the key unique and cashable elements of Wurm; Open world terriforming, Free-form construction, Massive crafting and decor catalog. Land/Deed ownership and control. As front and blunt as possible since they are the space where wurm has space to compete and succed.
While Wurm is unlikely to enter mainstream status that doesn't mean that the game is unmarketable or cannot be promoted as well as tweaked to enable the marketing and advertising of it's strong suits and talking points. A renewed focus on what wurm does best and does alone in conjunction with perhaps the paring down and de emphasizing of the elements and mechanics where the game struggles to be relevant when finished with a promotion campaign could do wonders for the game and it's success. Niche does not mean doomed to decline or forever struggling. But there may soon come a time if a precipitous decline is real and occurs where due to the limitations of development resources and time where some significant choices or decisions may have to be made in order to be the most effective overall in reversing that trend.


(AP) — Stop me if this sounds familiar: A Disney animation film about a bright and spirited young woman who feels stifled by outmoded expectations and dreams of exploring beyond the confines of her home. It's the premise of "Moana ," but it's also that of "The Little Mermaid," ''Beauty and the Beast," ''Mulan," ''Brave" and scores of other animated films about teenage girls.
It's not a bad one by any means, and an understandably captivating foundation for children especially, but "Moana" is, like so many recent films, dressed up as something wholly new and bold and corrective against all the sins of fairy tales past. There's an entire scene where Moana (Auli'i Cravalho) fights back against the demigod Maui (Dwayne Johnson) for calling her a "princess" with such fervor that the ultimate effect isn't "hooray" but more "who cares?" What is so wrong with being a princess versus being the daughter of a chief who will eventually lead the island? It's just semantics.
It's distracting from both the real virtues of "Moana," of which there are many, and also fairly dismissive of the mere "princesses" who came before who basically accomplish the same things. In fact, the only real advancement lately is the recent excising of a love interest — but I imagine that has more to do with modern audiences wincing at the idea of a 16-year-old heroine getting married than actual progress in developing more complex female characters.
and save her people. She journeys first to get the help of Maui, a cocky showoff who has his own agenda that doesn't involve taking orders from a pushy teen, and then across the ocean where Moana, Maui and a dimwitted chicken encounter all kids of obstacles, including a band of hostile coconuts (a terrific gag), a glam rock hermit crab (Jemaine Clement) at the bottom of the ocean and a vindictive lava monster.
The fable of "Moana" is sweet, often funny, spiritual and epic, although Johnson's reliable charisma gets lost under the animation and the writing. Moana, however, is an excellent character with spirit, doubts, drive and a heck of a voice. She is a perfect addition to the roster of modern Disney heroines and one whom young girls will admire for years to come, princess or not.
"Moana," a Walt Disney Pictures release, is rated PG by the Motion Picture Association of America for "peril, some scary images and brief thematic elements." Running time: 113 minutes. Three stars out of four.


This was posted on May 11, 2010 by Steve.
It was a team effort, requiring all nine of us, to be able to finish all the details of leaving. As Anna mentioned, it seemed we were forgetting things, but we hope not. If we did, oh well. We're on our way, and we're not turning back.
So, what's a departure morning like?
It was normal wake up time, before 5 for half the family, and 5:15 for the rest.
Then, individual time in God's Word — a very special part of our morning.
Anna made pancakes for breakfast, and others hurried around, carrying their belongings out to the bus or finishing up other details.
Last minute loading was done, such as instruments and other items.
The departure time was tentatively set for 9, but we had no huge deadline, except for wanting to be past St. Louis before rush hour.
John did some maintenance on the bus, and then he had a quick 8:30 business appointment.
Joseph and Jesse did the rest of the bus loading.
Where's John?! Doing a bit of maintenance.
Mom does such a good job with all of the myriad of things to pack.
After all the essentials were done for some people, there was time for extras such as washing a car and cleaning!
Finally, around 10:30, we prayed and just as we were pulling out, someone realized they had forgotten their pillows, so they hurried back in.
We were expecting a package to come via UPS, and we were going to try to meet the UPS man, but it didn't seem to work out, until we drove by Wal-Mart and saw his truck. Long story short (it ended up not to be our driver we saw, but he came shortly thereafter), we were able to meet him and get the package needed. It might seem insignificant, but we DO need shopping bags at the conferences. You can't send people away from the book tables with books and no bag!
We would be so grateful for your prayers as we travel about 1500 miles to Edison, New Jersey over the next two days. This trip will involve a lot of driving 🙂 — a total of 5000 miles.
We'll be keeping ya'll updated!
I will be praying for you every day…probably many times a day as the Lord brings you to my mind.
We love you and will be praying for you! May this trip again be used to bring many hearts closer to the Savior.
So glad to hear you were able to leave today as planned. We prayed this morning for you, as always, and will now be adding safe travels throughout this trip. I'm excited to pictures and hear your stories of workshops.
I hope you will also be able to keep us updated on Melaine and BabyMax. Keeping them in prayer.
Wow! Up at 5 am or earlier is normal? I'd be curious to know your schedule when you arise so early. I'd be collapsing around 7pm!
Yes, it's normal! We definitely keep busy, but we work to get to bed at a good time so we'll be ready for the morning.


text:
Games to Play at a PartyLite Candle Party
By Alice Wisler
Having a list of PartyLite candle games is essential for hosting the best party possible.
Hosting a PartyLite Party
PartyLite is an international company that sells candles through independent consultants. Consultants either host, or have others host, parties in order to share with their guests the products available for purchase. A consultant receives a percentage of the sales from a given party and the host is also able to earn some prizes and products, depending on the amount of money spent by guests. PartyLite gatherings are usually held in private homes where there are anywhere from four to 20 guests. The party can be hosted on any given afternoon or evening where a showcase of new and old candles and home decor products are presented. To add to the festivities, refreshments are served, and games are played.
Yankee Candle Selections
The Value of Games at a Party
What would a party be without games? Games are great for breaking the ice at any party, creating a non-threatening and fun mood. Games ease tension for those who might be a little self-conscious about not knowing anyone else at a party. The can add to the guests' enjoyment.
At a PartyLite party, it is all about guests willing and wanting to have a good time. Consultants want their guests to feel comfortable so that the guests will desire to stay and linger over the array of products.
A List of PartyLite Candle Games
Serve tasty food when introducing games to play.
Consultants always want to come up with fun game and activities to enhance the enthusiasm at their parties. Hunting and searching for games can be time consuming. Keeping a list of PartyLite candle games handy helps the busy consultant. Jotting down the name of the game and a few lines about it in a notebook is a great idea. This way, when preparing for a party, the games are at the consultant's fingertips. The following are fun ice-breakers to be played at PartyLite parties. Be sure to offer a small prize for the winner!
Two Truths and a Lie: Many have played this game and its familiarity will relax the guests and provide some laughs. Basically, each guest must come up with three things to tell everyone about herself. Two of these will be truths and one will be a lie. The other guests must guess which are true and which is the lie. The person able to make her truthful events of her life seem unbelievable, usually wins. For example, a person could say, "I have been jogging in Paris, lost my wallet in Boston, and belly danced in Las Vegas." The rest of the guests will have to decide which of these is true and which is the lie.
My First Grade Teacher: Everyone has a fond memory of first grade. Have each guest share something about first grade, including their teacher's name.
What's in Your Purse?: Have a list of items you want guests to find in their purses. A list might include: a piece of string, a checkbook, a rubber band, a penny, a credit card, a postage stamp, and a tissue. For each item on your list that a guest can produce from her purse, give a point. The guest with the most points wins.
Guess the Scent: Have a row of different colored and scented votive or tea light candles on the coffee table. Give each candle a number. Each guest must sniff the candles and write down on a slip of paper what she thinks the fragrance of each candle is. The person with the most correct guesses is awarded a prize.
Prizes can be a PartyLite product from the consultant's inventory. Prizes can also be inexpensive items from a discount store, a small box of candy, or a coupon for a PartyLite product to be used during the scheduled party.
As a consultant, host, or guest, you want to have a good time. Party games will help to make the event one to remember.
Candle Spells to Bring Back Lost Love By Crystal Schwanke
Do Yankee Candles Have Toxins? By Kelly Roper
How to Make Soy Candles With Essential Oils By Kate Miller-Wilson
Candle Spells for Employment By Sally Painter

redpajama_set_name: RedPajamaCommonCrawl


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Untidy destinations surrounding the hotel can give a negative feeling to readers. You cannot have even the trash cans at your entrance waiting for the actual pickup through municipal regulators of the state. Relying on these for disposing your rubbish would delay the task definitely because they are available according to their own personal schedules and have absolutely limits around the tonnage of the rubbish disposed each and every interval.
Your own landscaping is an integral part of your property's dcor. Just about every beautiful residence deserves a beautiful lawn, and it also always wounds when you have to observe that landscape design be ruined courtesy of just one home improvement venture or another. You attempt to keep which damage to start, however, giving you plenty involving reason to trust twice before deciding on a 15 Yard Dumpster in Mansfield, PA as an alternative to hauling the waste your self.
The companies providing 15 Yard Dumpster in Mansfield, PA and rubbish bin rental solutions dispose the actual garbage inside an eco friendly method. They even go ahead and take garbage in addition to recycle that. Therefore you remove the trash inside an eco-friendly manner.
It's always a difficult activity to decide on if they should purchase rubbish cans or maybe rent a dumpster. Many people and companies have this condition. However, exactly what most people don't realize is that people/homeowners undertaking repairs on the houses will benefit more when they rented a new dumpster. There are many key elements to look at if you decide to rent a new dumpster when enhancing your home or business, not only the price. The length of the dumpster is but one factor you must think of before choosing the organization you'll be renting the actual dumpsters from. A tremendous business will require an enormous spend disposal system compared to a small company or home because these huge businesses have a lot of spend and rubbish.
Dumpster rentals will show you about the bodyweight that is granted in a dumpster. If your dumpster weighs greater than the given weight, you will have to pay a new surcharge fee for this. Most 15 Yard Dumpster in Mansfield, PA solutions charge a flat fee for every a lot of open waste which exceeds the actual mentioned bodyweight limit.
What exactly can't go ahead the dumpster? With regards to the company and/or city rules and regulations there will probably most certainly be some items you cannot set up the pot. Some regular prohibited things include: paint, oil, fuel, any dangerous waste, any kind of flammable essential fluids, and noxious materials, auto tires, auto batteries, asbestos, etc. Yet again, always question a disallowed items list. Placing these items in the actual dumpster will more than likely bring about an additional demand.
Next you may wish to do an online search to view what your options are. You need to have at least a couple companies from which to choose and if you reside in a more substantial city you will possess several. Research before you buy and read testimonials. Make sure they demonstrate up on a serious amounts of deliver the solutions as offered. You also want to ensure they pick it up on time if you are going to have it for more than a day. You won't want to have a dumpster sitting near the house for longer than it has to be.
When choosing a new dumpster company to rent via, make sure they offer excellent customer service. If you need a dumpster the following day, the organization should be capable to honor your own wishes.
Will not choose a rubbish removal corporation just because they offer cheap costs. You get anything you pay for generally, so if a value sounds way too good to end up being true, that probably can be.
As you consider renting one, you've got to remember that you should have to pay a specific fee in your case to place your booked dumpster in a road in the city, this is especially critical if you are a retail outlet or hotel owner. You should have to get a make it possible for to use it. There is the possibility of an individual having your booked dumpster collect more than it should. Due to the fact each has a unique tonnage, ensure you tend not to exceed that limit, or you could be charged an extra fee.
To dispose the actual waste via renovation, it will always be advisable to opt for 15 Yard Dumpster in Mansfield service. Any 15 Yard Dumpster in Mansfield is used to get rid excessive numbers of garbage that has been produced by different sources like home rehabilitation, construction, property cleanup along with commercial tidy up. The 15 Yard Dumpster in Mansfield services will lessen the waste materials disposed in the our landfills by recycling where possible and also help us in reducing environmentally friendly pollution.
Thus no matter what style of trash removing or home cleanup undertaking you're experiencing, a roll-off 15 Yard Dumpster in Mansfield is for certain to help make the procedure easier and much more efficient. Along with affordable costs available, you will be amazed at how cost-effective can be. Call your local dumpster corporation today.
Figure out the start along with end day of your undertaking because this is enough time for which you will be needing a dumpster. On the other hand, it is best which you keep the dumpster right up until a couple of days soon after your project is finished. This is the time length for which, you'll be needing dumpsters about rent. These services need to have a drop off along with pick up day in order to ascertain the cost. Thus, knowing the particular duration of your own dumpster needs is most beneficial to get low cost on these facilities.
One of the important aspects of owning a commercial clients are waste operations. It is important to have a very place to dispose of waste and have this transported away. Many companies discover that 15 Yard Dumpster in Mansfields and other solid waste services are important to the day-to-day function of their own business. In cases like this, 15 Yard Dumpster in Mansfields is a great option that can solve your own waste operations problems. Not only can these rentals be important intended for businesses, however 15 Yard Dumpster in Mansfields is an excellent option for residents likewise who may require some extra trash services. Naturally, whether you are renting dumpsters for residential or commercial use, there are numerous important facts you must take into account.
Just a few of the causes people need dumpster rentals, but sometimes have a problem locating a single, are: Settlement of facilities around a fireplace zone for defense against brush and wildfires, real and dust removal as in an old groundwork, just plain garbage removing (furniture along with trash) as in a the foreclosure house, along with recycling. Have the right dimension and the suitable estimate via an online rotate off 15 Yard Dumpster in Mansfield web site and you will get the very best value doable, and this will leave a little more in your budget for people gold-plated faucets!
By means of separating multiple-use furniture, devices and cabinetry from the property undergoing redevelopment, there's much more of a likelihood that they'll relax in better issue and then may be donated to your charity consequently others may get use from their site, or take advantage of the money increased. Organizations including Habitat pertaining to Humanity usually are charities like this and they are in possession of retail outlets wherever builders or maybe anyone who really wants to, can buy good building components and lighting fixtures inexpensively. A dumpster roll down company will guarantee that your star will not be temperamental, and can do the job sent to it. Head out hire your roll down and get the head start on the next project.
The task of keeping your streets cleanse cannot be still left to the cities alone. Residents must take the stand along with do their part. Construction dumpsters and the lack of dumpsters swiftly became visible. Everything from cardstock bottles along with plates in order to old damaged shirts, the hat, and in some cases an extremely old boot can be obtained on road corners plus in common local communities. The people who still left these all too easily discarded items round the town without even so much like a second considered are still slinging out their trash, nevertheless we can clear and keep it clean with a construction dumpster dental care.
Before going for virtually every 15 Yard Dumpster in Mansfield, PA company please check that no matter whether keeping dumpsters are permitted in spot or not, if it is not allowed as compared to go for choice option of garbage bin. You can find companies which often work in specific areas and many which are getting work done in every talk about and town as well. The fees policy additionally depends upon business to business, some corporations charge in weekly schedule while some costs on each and every dumpster or container they consider. You need to pick out as per your requirement in order to avoid the aggravation of knowing on a celebration day that you simply cannot work with service because the type of assistance you selected.
You'll be able to hire a Dumpster pertaining to spring along with fall cleansing. There are quantity of professional move off rental companies extending their professional services right from the beginning of the season for the end of year.
Dumpster rental is important for ones business. Many cities waste is only obtained once or twice each week. Having fifteen trash ales might not be the most effective idea on the globe. Let's face it there are many reasons why you couldn't want to have that lots of trash ales, in front of, next to or guiding your business. They're an eye sore for one thing. They'll get in the way. Determined by what you will possibly be throwing away you may be attracting annoyances. You don't want to possibly be known for your collection of run away cats and dogs instead of what kind of business you run.
You will probably ask exactly what does a dumpster Rental Business got to use renovation. Nicely, let me explain. Renovating an essential portion of your home will most likely collect garbage. Along with what about that old furniture that you want to change? Or maybe some wall membrane paper that will require replacement too? All of these trashes requires some place being put in as you move the renovation can be on-going, right?


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Unbeaten Buckhorns take over No. 1
Four holiday tournament champions stand at the top of the Riverfront Sports Super Six Power Rankings of District 2 basketball teams.
After four other teams tried their turns in the top Big School boys spot, Wallenpaupack makes the move this week up one position from second, where it had been all season.
The Buckhorns have spent the past 10 days as the last unbeaten boys team in District 2. They won a tournament title for the second time this season, winning a total of three games during the week to improve to 8-0 overall.
With returning NEPABasketball.com Lackawanna League Division 2 Player of the Year Elijah Rosenthal leading the way in his second tournament Most Valuable Player performance of the season, Wallenpaupack captured the Honesdale Jaycees Tournament title.
Rosenthal had 29 points in the final, a 56-43 victory over Honesdale.
The Buckhorns knocked another team from the list of unbeatens when they handled District 11's East Stroudsburg South in the semifinal round of the tournament.
The Lakeland boys, as well as the Dallas and Susquehanna girls, returned to the rankings.
The West Scranton boys make their first appearance of the season.
Dallas, Crestwood and Holy Redeemer boys teams moved up as did the Nanticoke girls.
Wallenpaupack and West Scranton make up the top and bottom of the Big School boys list where every position changed.
Dallas (6-1) had the week off but moved up from third to second. The Mountaineers are on a six-game winning streak.
Crestwood (5-1) won the McGrane Tournament title and moved up two spots to third.
Scranton Prep (6-2) slipped from first to fourth after a one-point loss to Small School No. 1 Holy Cross in the championship game of the Lynett Memorial Tournament.
Hazleton Area (4-3) went from fourth to fifth when it lost the title game of its own tournament to Small School No. 2 Wyoming Seminary.
West Scranton (7-1) won the Taylor Lions Tournament, stretching its winning streak to seven games.
Holy Cross (7-1) and Wyoming Seminary (5-2) used their Lynett Tournament and Hazleton Cougar Tournament titles to hold first and second in the Small School boys rankings.
Lakeland (6-2) won the Peter Turonis Classic and has won six out of seven since falling out of the rankings with an opening loss. The Chiefs jump all the way to third.
Holy Redeemer (2-4) moves up one spot to fourth after splitting two games, falling to Crestwood in the McGrane final.
Mid Valley (4-4) lost two of three games and fell from fourth to fifth.
Riverside (4-3) held sixth after losing its Taylor Lions Tournament final to West Scranton in double overtime.
Scranton Prep (8-0), Hazleton Area (5-1) and Abington Heights (7-2) won girls tournament titles to remain 1-2-3 in the Big School rankings.
Scranton Prep won a Lynett Tournament battle of unbeatens over Dunmore in the final.
Hazleton Area won the Carl Truance Classic in Punxsutawney while Abington Heights won the Gatorade Classic in Pottsville.
Nanticoke moved up, trading places with Wilkes-Barre Area despite losing while the Wolfpack remained unbeaten.
Nanticoke (6-2) gave Small School No. 1 Riverside its closest game of the year to go from fifth to fourth.
Wilkes-Barre Area (6-0) escaped with a two-point win against Lake-Lehman and went from fourth to fifth.
Dallas (6-1) returns to the rankings in the sixth spot after extending its winning streak to four in its only game of the week.
Last week's ranked Small School teams went just 8-7 combined, but the top five spots remained the same.
Riverside (7-0) won its Taylor Lions Tournament to hold first.
Second-ranked Dunmore (6-1) went 2-1, beating Holy Redeemer and making the Lynett Tournament final before falling to Scranton Prep.
Old Forge (6-2) lost in the James Akens Holiday Tournament final to host North Pocono, but remained third.
Holy Cross (6-2) had a 2-1 week and third-place finish in the Lynett Tournament. It remained fourth.
Holy Redeemer (3-4) lost two out of three games, falling to Dunmore and Shenendehowa (N.Y.). It is still fifth.
Susquehanna (3-4) stopped a four-game losing streak and won the Denise Reddon/Jill Hoffman Memorial Christmas Tournament to come back into the rankings in sixth.
One team fell out of each set of rankings: Abington Heights in Big School boys, Dunmore in Small School boys, Berwick in Big School girls and Northwest in Small School girls. They were a combined 3-6 on the week.
The previous Big School boys No. 1s this season have been Nanticoke, Abington Heights, Crestwood and Scranton Prep. The first two of those teams are no longer ranked.
The Super Six is released on NEPABasketball.com at the completion of weekend games. Most weeks, the rankings come out Sunday with high school teams off for the day. This Sunday's schedule included eight tournament games, delaying the new rankings release into Monday.
RIVERFRONT SPORTS SUPER SIX POWER RANKINGS
(With Record, Previous Rankings)
BOYS BIG SCHOOL
GIRLS BIG SCHOOL
1. Wallenpaupack (8-0, 2)
1. Scranton Prep (8-0, 1)
2. Dallas (6-1, 3)
2. Hazleton Area (5-1, 2)
3. Crestwood (5-1, 5)
3. Abington Heights (7-2, 3)
4. Nanticoke (6-2, 5)
5. Wilkes-Barre Area (6-0, 4)
6. West Scranton (7-1, NR)
6. Dallas (6-1, NR)
BOYS SMALL SCHOOL
GIRLS SMALL SCHOOL
1. Holy Cross (7-1, 1)
1. Riverside (7-0, 1)
2. Wyoming Seminary (5-2, 2)
2. Dunmore (6-1, 2)
3. Lakeland (6-2, NR)
3. Old Forge (6-2, 3)
4. Holy Redeemer (2-4, 5)
5. Mid Valley (4-4, 4)
6. Susquehanna (3-4, NR)


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your consultation fee is outlined on my website according to the service you have selected. This is payable in advance in order to confirm your booking. If you cancel your clinic appointment with less than 48 hours notice, I will have to charge you as arrangements will have been made and other bookings turned away. The same applies for missed appointments. If you cancel your clinic appointment once your confirmatory payment has been made there is a 15% administrative charge and also to cover processing fees. Alternatively, I may be able to offer a telephone consultation for missed Jersey or Harley Street appointments because of illness.
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B.C. legislature warned of heightened security concerns from Ottawa officials
By on October 22, 2021 Comments Off on B.C. legislature warned of heightened security concerns from Ottawa officials
Grade 5 children from Vancouver's St. Francis Xavier School wait on the B.C. legislature steps in Victoria, on Wednesday Oct. 22, 2014. The children were turned away from their planned visit following the shooting incidents on Parliament Hill in Ottawa. THE CANADIAN PRESS/Dirk Meissner
Dirk Meissener, The Canadian Press
VICTORIA - The clerk of British Columbia's legislature says some provincial politicians were warned this week about "heightened" security concerns in Ottawa in the days leading up to Wednesday's shootings on Parliament Hill and at the National War Memorial.
Craig James declined to offer specifics about the information he and the legislature's sergeant-at-arms received or where it came from. He said there was nothing to indicate B.C.'s legislature was at risk.
"We are aware, and have been aware, of a heightened concern from entities in Ottawa," James told reporters in Victoria.
"We received information that there may be a problem."
James said those concern had existed for "at least a few days." Some members of the legislature were made aware of them, he said.
The sergeant-at-arms, Gary Lenz, said security officials at legislatures across the country routinely share information. He declined to go into detail about any such information that was shared this week.
A reservist who was stationed as an honour guard at the National War Memorial was fatally wounded Wednesday. An assailant was shot dead in Parliament's Centre Block, where a security guard was also believed to be wounded.
The capital was placed under lockdown amid fears there could be multiple shooters.
The shooting also prompted increased security measures at legislatures, military bases and other sites across the country.
At the legislature in Victoria, where a Canadian flag was flying at half-mast, security personnel were stationed at every entrance and the building was closed to the public, with the exception of pre-scheduled school tours.
Provincial politicians observed a moment of silence to reflect on the events in Parliament, an institution Premier Christy Clark said all Canadians hold in their hearts.
"Today I stand before you deeply saddened by what's happened and I hope that all Canadians know that here in B.C. we stand with them," said Clark. "Our sympathies go to the families of the victims. Our thanks go to those who protect us. Our vigilance remains strong."
Opposition New Democrat Leader John Horgan called the events in Ottawa a tragic day in Canadian history, one that symbolizes a loss of innocence for the country.
He said speaking in the legislature lets everybody know that the business of the province cannot be stopped.
"We need to be here today to demonstrate that we will nor be bowed by terror or insanity," said Horgan.
The B.C. legislature was the target of an alleged terror plot in July of last year, when the RCMP announced it had foiled a plan to use pressure cooker bombs to attack the building during Canada Day festivities.
Two people were charged with offences including facilitating terrorist activity, and they are currently scheduled to stand trial early next year. The allegations against them have not been proven.
Victoria's police chief said the force was working with the Canadian Forces and security officials at the legislature, though he stressed there was no indication of any threats to the provincial capital.
The 19 Wing Comox airbase on Vancouver Island, more than 200 kilometres northwest of Victoria, was among Canadian Forces facilities across the country to increase security measures. A spokeswoman said the base had implemented "additional force protection measures," though she declined to offer specifics.
A public affairs officer at Canadian Forces Base Esquimalt, west of Victoria, said she wasn't aware of any additional measures in place at the facility.
Vancouver's airport said on Twitter that it had "increased security vigilance" at the facility. A spokesperson said travellers would see additional security inside the airport terminal.
With files from James Keller in Vancouver
By: CKReview staff on October 22, 2014.
B.C. legislature warned of heightened security concerns from Ottawa officials added by CKReview staff on October 22, 2021
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Medal (reverse), of Edinburgh Skating Club
This is the reverse of a silver medal of the Edinburgh Skating Club. The medal, which is suspended from a red ribbon, was presented to James Gibson Thomson in 1826.
The reverse is inscribed with the figure of Mercury - the Roman messenger of the Gods whose quickness of movement is similar to that of the substance mercury, also known as quicksilver. The Latin inscription translates as, 'swifter than the wind'.
In the Middle Ages skates were made with bone runners, but the introduction of metal runners from Holland made it a more attractive sport.
Project: 0098: National Museums Scotland
Ref: National Museums Scotland H.1967.427
Dimensions: 140 mm L (including ribbon); 42 mm D
What: Medal / badge
Subject: Medals (NMAS Classification)
Who: Edinburgh Skating Club
James Gibson Thomson
Where: Scotland, Midlothian, Edinburgh
Description: Silver medal of the Edinburgh Skating Club, for James Gibson Thomson, 1826