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Ballmer Promises Windows 7 Slates
Finally... Windows 7 tablet will hit the market just in time for the holidays.
Microsoft head honcho Steve Ballmer confirmed Monday that Windows 7-based tablets will hit the market by the end of the year. He said that nearly a dozen hardware manufacturers are set to launch the devices including Asus, Dell, Samsung, Toshiba, Sony (gasp!) and many more. The news was revealed during Ballmer's opening speech at the Microsoft Worldwide Partner Conference taking place in Washington, D.C. this week.
"Over the course of the next several months you will see a range of Windows 7-based slates that I think you'll find quite impressive," he told the audience. "This is a terribly important area for us. We are hardcore about this."
He added that there will be a wide range of devices: some with keyboards, and some without. "They'll be dockable, there will be many form factors, many price points, many sizes," he said. "But they will all run Windows 7. They will run Windows 7 applications. They will run Office."
Outside the five manufacturers listed above, twenty-one additional manufacturers were listed to be working on Windows 7 tablets including Fujitsu, Hewlett-Packard, Lenovo, Panasonic and Pegatron. Although Ballmer revealed an HP slate during the slideshow presentation (and at CES 2010 back in January), currently HP hasn't officially confirmed that the device will ship by the end of the year.
Without a doubt, Microsoft is making its big push in the mobile market in 2010. With Apple's iPad dominating the tablet market and an army of Android-based devices gearing up to fill the second-in-command position, Microsoft has a lot of catching up to do. Ballmer even admitted that the company missed a generation in the smartphone sector, falling behind Apple's iPhone, the Android platform, and RIM's Blackberry platform.
"This year one of the most important things that we will do in the smart device category is really push forward with Windows 7-based slates and Windows 7 phones," Ballmer said. Windows Phone 7 is also slated to hit the market in Q4 2010.
JasonAkkerman
And I will buy one! Hopefully a Moorestown device.
Edit: And Hopefully one with with 3/4G support and mobile service. Don't need a smart phone with one of these.
By then, Android or Chrome tablets have already flooded the markets, not to mention about the iPad...
Humans think
I could easily find my self using Win7 on a slate :P
Even if I have to give away speed, responsiveness, and design, the thrill of installing what the hell I want on my device is compelling. Way to go Microsoft (omg i just sounded as a fanboy). I will never purchase a console-class device like an ipad.
mgoblue3296
If the iPad didn't exist, it wouldn't be as "terribly important" as Ballmer said.
I don't get how these would apply for everyday use. Maybe in hospitals a modified, stripped down version could be useful, but as far as an everyday user? It's stuck in the middle ground between smartphone and laptop, and I'll take both of those over a tablet.
Little late to the game Ballmer. This should have been done about 5mins after the ipad launch.
sliem
A little late? Who cares, as long as it's better than everyone.
Regulas
Never in a hundred years unless like a laptop I could wipe the Windows infection off the device and install Android or some other Linux based derivative.
Will these slates come with stickers plastered all over them? (including the COA)
requiemsallure
maybe im just being picky but, who wants to run office on a tablet? there are many better applications for it. in anycase windows 7 on a tablet is pretty cool, if i liked tablets i would get one.
Drag0nR1der
"If the iPad didn't exist, it wouldn't be as "terribly important" as Ballmer said."
True, but it's market forces that really drive the importance of such things...


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Newell Creek Canyon Nature Park grand opening coming April 2
Nearly every foot of trail at Newell Creek Canyon Nature Park is dappled in leafy shade. Benches for rest and reflection are spaced regularly throughout the park.
Western red cedar fill Newell Creek Canyon. Some are enormous, and none more fetching than this titan along Cedar Grove Trail.
Newell Creek Canyon Nature Park's one-way bike trails are great for kids and beginners.
Join the fun!Event parkingPark address
By Cory Eldridge
March 23, 2022 12:29 p.m.
Bylined articles are written by Metro staff and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Metro or the Metro Council. Learn more
On April 2, Metro will welcome neighbors from Oregon City and across the region to the grand opening of Newell Creek Canyon Nature Park. The park opened in late 2021, and its hiking trails and dedicated off-road biking paths have quickly become a popular draw for visitors looking for a connection to nature just a few minutes from home.
The grand opening will celebrate the park, the conservation done to strengthen its habitats and the efforts going back 30 years by the people of Oregon City to protect this special place. The celebration is free, family-friendly and open to all. Festivities begin at 11:30.
Celebrate one of Metro's newest parks with food, music and activities. Ribbon cutting at 11:30 a.m.
Enjoy delicious food from a local vendor
Learn youth mountain biking basics with Northwest Trail Alliance (youth 8 years+)
Explore the park during guided nature walks
Arts and crafts, and hands-on activities
The event is free, family-friendly, and open to all
No registration is required
Hilltop Mall
325 Beavercreek Road, Oregon City
Parking is in front of Regal Cinemas at Hilltop Mall, across Molalla Avenue. It is about a six-minute walk to the park. The parking lot at the park will be reserved primarily for guests with mobility concerns and elderly visitors. It is expected to be full.
Park address
485 Warner Milne Road, Oregon City
Parking for the event is at Hilltop Mall, on Molalla Avenue. The park's parking lot is open for accessible parking.
Metro Council President Lynn Peterson, Metro Councilor Christine Lewis, Metro Parks and Nature director Jon Blasher, and others will welcome the gathering and share the partnerships and teamwork it took to create the park.
During the celebration, Metro nature educators will lead hikes through the park, and Portland State University geologist Scott Burns will share about the long history of the canyon. Nature activities for all ages will showcase what makes the park special.
The Northwest Trail Alliance will teach mountain biking basics to young people ages 8 and older. Metropolis Cycles is offering free, small-scale bike repairs.
Newell Creek Canyon curves along the east side of Oregon City, separating Molalla Avenue from Highway 213. The 236-acre park stretches along nearly the entire canyon, and 2.5 miles of hiking trails and nearly 2 miles of dedicated mountain biking trails offer provide access to most of it.
The park was created thanks to voters choosing to invest in nature, and from the dedicated efforts of community members who saw the value of the natural area and the importance of introducing it to their neighbors.
The nature park's story goes back to 1995 when neighbors living by the canyon began advocating for the Metro bond measure that would create the regional government's conservation program. The neighbors wanted to see the canyon protected, and Metro began purchasing parcels that year. The latest purchases were in 2015, which include the site of the parking lot and picnicking areas.
Conservation work began soon after the first purchases. Like many undeveloped natural areas, Newell Creek Canyon had still been affected by the dramatic changes to the landscape since white settlers colonized the area in the mid-1800s. Metro scientists removed weeks like ivy, clematis, holly and laurel, which compete against and even smother native plants.
At least 20,550 native shrubs and trees, like tall Oregon grape, oceanspray, Pacific ninebark, red osier dogwood, Oregon white oak and Douglas fir have been planted in the canyon.
Newell Creek begins on the Clackamas Community College campus, then crosses Highway 213 into the canyon, where dozens of springs and seeps add water to the creek. The creek crosses 213 again, before joining Abernathy Creek where Redland Road and the highway meet.

redpajama_set_name: RedPajamaCommonCrawl


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Mark Bou Mansour ■ Unitary tax explained: infographic
Unitary tax explained: infographic
Mark Bou Mansour
Unitary tax ↘
The Labour party in the UK has today committed to introducing unitary taxation by the end of the next parliamentary term. This is significant internationally because it marks the first such manifesto commitment from a major political party, with a realistic prospect of election success, in a major OECD member country. Coupled with the leadership of the G24 group of developing countries, the Labour commitment represents an important further normalisation of unitary taxation, and a potentially important step to ending the great damage done by corporate tax abuse internationally.
But what is unitary taxation? We've put together an infographic below to illustrate how unitary tax works.
Under a unitary tax approach, governments treat a multinational corporation as a group made up of all its local branches, instead of treating each local branch as an individual entity separated from the global chain. The profits that the multinational corporation declares as a group are then apportioned to each country where it operates based on how much of its real economic activity took place in that country.
Simply, put a unitary approach requires multinational corporations to contribute tax based on where they employ workers and do business, not where they rent letter-boxes and hide ledgers. That means making sure corporations pay their fair share locally for the wealth created locally by people's work.
For our full briefing on unitary tax, read our briefing paper here.
Mark Bou Mansour leads the Tax Justice Network's communications and campaigns. He previously worked as Communications Manager at the Family and Childcare Trust and at iguacu. Mark holds a Masters in Social and Political Studies from the University of Sussex.
A year the tide turned in the fight for tax justice
By Zoe Parkin ■ 20 December 2021 ■ 20 min READ
Taxing Wall Street: the Tax Justice Network December 2020 podcast
By Mark Bou Mansour ■ 20 November 2020 ■ 16 min READ ■ 3 comments
The State of Tax Justice 2020
By Alex Cobham, Javier Garcia-Bernardo, Miroslav Palansky, Mark Bou Mansour
Corporate profit misalignment: An analysis of German parent companies and their foreign affiliates
By Sarah Godar ■ 18 November 2020 ■ 5 min READ
In Apple's victory lies a defeat for women's rights
By Liz Nelson ■ 17 July 2020 ■ 2 min READ
US blows up global project to tax multinational corporations. What now?
By Alex Cobham ■ 19 June 2020 ■ 8 min READ
Time for the EU to close its own tax havens
By Alex Cobham, Javier Garcia-Bernardo
Could the wealth in tax havens help us pay for the Coronavirus response?
By Nick Shaxson ■ 27 March 2020 ■ 10 min READ ■ 1 comments
A Pyrrhic victory for the OECD?
By Alex Cobham ■ 31 January 2020 ■ 8 min READ
rona chadwick
November 23, 2019 - 12:06 am
this infographic is confusing…is it me. you speak of taxing multinationals where people are working then the graphic proposes taxing people where they make profits.
if it where co staff are working then how does this fit with automation – where the robots work..? hmmm…
David Harold Chester
November 28, 2019 - 1:40 pm
The Most Socially Just Tax
Our present complicated system for taxation is unfair and has many faults. The biggest problem is to arrange it on a socially just basis. Many companies employ their workers in various ways and pay them diversely. Since these companies are registered in different countries for a number of categories, the determination the general criterion for a just tax system becomes impossible, particularly if it is to be based on a fair measure of human work-activity. So why try to do this when there is a better means available, which is really a true and socially just method?
Adam Smith's ("Wealth of Nations", REF. 1) says that land is one of the 3 factors of production (the other 2 being labor and durable capital goods). The usefulness of a particular site of land is expressed by its purchase price and in the amounts that tenants willingly pay as rent, for its access rights. Land is often considered as being a form of capital, since it is traded similarly to other durable capital goods items. However it is not actually man-made, so rightly it does not fall within this category. Indeed, the land was originally a gift of nature (if not of God), for which all the people in the region should have equal rights for sharing in its opportunities for residence, accessibility and use.
However over many years, as communities became established and grew, the land has been traded as if it was an item of durable goods and today it is often treated as a form of capital investment. It is apparent that for a particular site, its current site-value greatly depends on location and is related to the community density in its region, as well as the size and natural resources that it can provide. Such bounty, often manifest in the exploitation of rivers, minerals, animals or plants of specific beauty and use are available only after infrastructural developments have made possible access to the particular place. Consequently, much of the land value is created by man within his society, by his need and ability to reach it and take from it materials, plants and live creatures, as well as the opportunities it provides for working space near to people. These advantages should logically and ethically be fairly returned to the community, for its general use within the government, as explained by Martin Adams (in "LAND" REF 2.).
However, due to our existing laws, the land is owned and formally registered and its value is traded, even though it can't be moved to another place, like other kinds of capital goods. This right of ownership gives the landlord two big advantages over the rest of the community. He/she can determine how it may be used, or if it is to be held out of use for speculative reasons, until the city grows and the site becomes more valuable. Secondly the land owner enjoys the rent from a tenant or its equivalent if he uses the land himself. Speculation in land values and its rental earnings are encouraged by the law, in treating a site of land as personal or private property—as if it were an item of capital goods, although it is not, see Prof. Mason Gaffney and Fred Harrison: "The Corruption of Economics", REF. 3.
Regarding taxation and local community spending, the municipal taxes we pay are partly used for improving the infrastructure. This means that the land becomes more useful and valuable without the landlord doing anything—he/she will always benefit from our present tax regime from which the land value grows. This also applies when the status of unused municipal land is upgraded and it becomes fit for community development. When this news is leaked, after landlords and banks corruptly pay for this valuable information, speculation in land values is rife.
There are many advantages if the land values were taxed instead of the many different kinds of production-based activities such as earnings, purchases, capital gains, home and foreign company investments, etc., (with all their regulations, complications and loop-holes). The only people due to lose from this are those who exploit the growing values of the land over the past years, when "mere" land ownership confers a financial benefit, without the owner doing a scrap of work. Consequently, for a truly socially just kind of taxation to apply there can only be one method–Land-Value Taxation.
Consider how land becomes valuable. Pioneers and new settlers in a region begin to specialize and this slowly improves their efficiency in producing specific goods. The land central to the new colony is the most valuable, due to its easy availability and least transport needed. After an initial start, this distribution in land values is created by the community. It is not due only to the natural land resources. As the city expands, speculators in land values will deliberately hold potentially useful sites out of use, until planning and development have permitted their more intensive use and for their values to grow. Meanwhile there is fierce competition for access to the most suitable sites for housing, agriculture, manufacturing industries, transport byways, etc. The limited availability of the most useful land means that the high rents paid by tenants make their residence more costly and the provision of goods and services more expensive.
Entrepreneurs find it difficult or impossible to compete with the big organizations who have already taken full advantage of their more central sites. The greater cost of access, or the greater expense in transportation from less costly outlaying regions, discourages these later arrivals. It also creates unemployment, causing wages to be lowered by the land monopolists, who control the big producing organizations, and whose land was previously obtained when it was relatively cheap. Consequently this basic structure of our current macroeconomics system, works to limit opportunity and to create poverty, see above reference.
The most basic cause of our continuing poverty is the lack of properly paid work and the reason for this is the lack of opportunity of access to the land on which the work must be done. The useful land is monopolized by a landlord who either holds it out of use (for speculation in its rising value), or charges the tenant heavily for its right of access. In the case when the landlord is also the producer, he/she has a monopolistic control of the land and of the produce too, and can charge more for this access right than what an entrepreneur, who seeks greater opportunity, normally would be able to afford.
A wise and sensible government would recognize that this problem of poverty derives from lack of the opportunities to work and earn. It can be solved by the use of a tax system which encourages the proper use of land and which stops penalizing everything and everybody else. Such a tax system was proposed about 140 years ago by Henry George, a (North) American economist, but somehow most macro-economists seem never to have heard of him, in common with a whole lot of other experts. (I would guess that they even don't want to know, which is even worse!) In "Progress and Poverty", REF. 4, Henry George proposed a single tax on land values without other kinds of tax on earnings, sales of produce, services, capital-gains etc. This regime of land value tax (LVT) has 17 features which benefit almost everyone in the economy, except for landlords, tax collectors and banks, who/which do nothing productive and find that land dominance and its capitalistic exploitation have their own (unjust) rewards.
17 Aspects of LVT Affecting Government, Land Owners, Communities and Ethics
Four Advantages for Government:
1. LVT, adds to the national income as do other taxation systems, but it should replace them. The author has shown in REF.5, that taxation of any kind is beneficial to the country as a whole due to its national income providing for more work too, but that when the tax applies to land the topology and spread of its effects are about 3 times as beneficial as when the same amounts of income are taken directly from labour.
2. The cost of collecting the LVT is less than for all of the production-related taxes–tax avoidance becomes impossible, because the sites are visible to all and who owns each site is public knowledge. The army of tax collectors who are opposing a similar set of lawyers, are no longer busy with tax loop-holes in the law, so the number of people more productively employed will grow and the penalty on the country of having complicated taxation is less.
3. Consumers pay less for their purchases due to lower production costs (see below). They can buy more goods and enjoy a raised standard of living. This creates greater satisfaction with the management of national affairs and more prosperity.
4. The national economy stabilizes—it no longer experiences the 18 year business boom/bust cycle, due to periodic speculation in land values (see below). The withholding of unused land is eliminated see item 7, so there is less need for the complications of frequent land sales, with developers searching and buyers hunting for unused sites.
Six Aspects Affecting Land Owners:
5. LVT is progressive—this tax depends on the site area as well as its position. The owners of the most potentially productive sites pay the most tax per unit of area. Urban sites provide the most usefulness and their owners will pay at greater rates, whilst big rural sites have less value and can be farmed appropriately, to meet their ability to provide useful produce. Small-holder farming closer to population centers becomes more practical, due to local markets and reduced distribution costs.
6. The land owner pays his LVT regardless of how his site is used. A large proportion of the present ground-rent from the tenants (who do use the land properly), becomes transformed into the LVT, with the result that the land has less sales-value but retains a significant "rental" value.
7. LVT stops speculation in land prices, because the withholding of land from its proper use is not worthwhile.
8. The introduction of LVT initially reduces the sales price of sites, even though their rental value can grow over a longer term. As more sites become available, the competition for them is less fierce and entrepreneurs have more of a chance to get started.
9. With LVT, land owners are unable to pass the tax on to their tenants as rent hikes, due to the reduced competition for access to the additional sites that come into use.
10. Speculators in land values will want to foreclose on their mortgages and withdraw their money for reinvestment. Therefore LVT should be introduced gradually, to allow these speculators sufficient time to transfer their money to company-based shares etc., and simultaneously to meet the increased demand for produce (see below, items 12 and 13).
Three Aspects Regarding Communities:
11. With LVT, there is an incentive to use land for production, transport or residence, rather than it being vacant and held unused.
12. With LVT, greater working opportunities exist due to cheaper land and a greater number of available sites. Consumer goods become cheaper too, because entrepreneurs have less difficulty in starting-up their businesses, and because they pay less ground-rent–consequently demand grows, whilst unemployment and poverty decrease.
13. Investment money is withdrawn from land and placed in durable capital goods. This means more advances in technology and cheaper goods too because the effectiveness of labor has been raised.
Four Aspects About Ethics:
14. The collection of taxes from productive effort and commerce is socially unjust. LVT replaces this national extortion by gathering the surplus rental income, which comes without any exertion from the land owner or by the banks–LVT is a natural system of national income-gathering.
15. Previous bribery and corruption for gaining privileged information about land, cease. Before, this was due to the leaking of news of municipal plans for housing and industrial development, causing shock-waves in local land prices (and municipal workers' and lawyers' bank accounts!)
16. The improved use of the more central land of cities reduces the environmental damage due to unused sites being dumping-grounds, and the smaller amount of fossil-fuel use (with its air-pollution), when traveling between home and workplace.
17. Because the LVT eliminates the advantage that landlords currently hold over our society, LVT provides a greater equality of opportunity to earn a living. Entrepreneurs can operate in a natural way– to provide more jobs because their production costs are reduced. Then untaxed earnings will correspond more closely to the value that the labor puts into the product or service. Consequently, after LVT has been properly and fully introduced as a single tax, it will eliminate poverty and improve business ethics.
1. Adam Smith, 1776: "The Wealth of Nations", UK
2. Martin Adams, 2015: "LAND– A New Paradigm for a Thriving World", North Atlantic Books, California, USA
3. Mason Gaffney and Fred Harrison, 2005: "The Corruption of Economics", Shepheard-Walwyn, London, UK
4. Henry George: "Progress and Poverty" 1897, reprinted 1978 by the Schalkenbach Foundation, New York, USA
5. David Harold Chester, 2015: "Consequential Macroeconomics—Rationalizing About How Our Social System Works", Lambert Academic Publishing, Saarbüchen, Germany
December 11, 2019 - 3:09 pm
Very useful and informative article. Thanks!


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Global Goods Partners Blog
Franken Makes 60: Let's Get to Work
By 3280983 - July 01 2009
After eight long months of legal battles and recounts, Al Franken will finally be seated in the United States Senate. That pushes the Democrats up to 60 seats, the magic, filibuster-proof number that means it's time to kick-butt and take names. What should be first on the Democrats' to-do list? How about supporting women and girls in Afghanistan. (Ok, maybe not first--health care is pretty important--but definitely top ten.) California Democrat Barbara Boxer is about to introduce The Afghan Women Empowerment Act (S. 229), a piece of legislation that will: "provide critical resources for Afghan women for literacy education, technical and vocational training and health care services that would reduce maternal and infant mortality. The bill will also fund programs to protect women and girls against sexual and physical abuse, abduction, trafficking, exploitation, and includes emergency shelters for women and girls who face danger from violence."
Sign this pledge on Change.org (sponsored by the U.N. Foundation) to tell your Senator to co-sponsor the act today.
P.S. Al Franken can draw a perfect recreation of the United States. Watch this video, it will blow your mind.
Awesome video, Lefty. You're doing a great job with this blog!
Re: Franken recreating the US: wow, he's good. About to sign the petition! YAY
Celebrating 17 Years of Fair Trade and Incredible Women
Giving Food & Love in Afghanistan
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Support Afghan Women Artisans
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Partnering through Covid: GGP Grants Deliver Emergency Food and Supplies
9 Black-Owned Ethical Businesses To Support Right Now


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Houston's Poet Laureate Comes to UHD
By Mike Emery
Two emerging voices in poetry will bring their lyrical artistry to the University of Houston-Downtown. Houston Poet Laureate Deborah D.E.E.P. Mouton and Jeremyah "The Fluent One" Payne will deliver a free spoken-word performance, presented by UHD's Cultural Enrichment Center, at 5:30 p.m., Sept. 21 in UHD's Welcome Center Tour Room (third floor, Girard Street Building).
This past spring, Mouton—also known as D.E.E.P. (Destined to Excel in Everything Promised)—was named the city's Poet Laureate by Houston Mayor Sylvester Turner. Mouton teaches English at Cristo Rey Jesuit College Preparatory School and previously offered creative guidance to students as part of the city's Writers in the School Program. She was named among the top female poets in the world at the Women of World Poetry Slam and released a full-length album of spoken word works, "The Unfinished Work of a Genius."
"Deborah Mouton has the expertise and passion for poetry that will be invaluable in working with arts groups of all disciplines to take poetry to all of Houston's neighborhoods," Turner said upon naming her as the city's Poet Laureate.
Mouton succeeds the city's previous Poet Laureate, UHD Professor of Creative Writing Robin Davidson. Davidson was among those who helped select Mouton for this two-year appointment to promote poetry appreciation in Houston.
Payne also has made an impact on the city's poetry scene. While studying computer science at Prairie View A&M University, Payne discovered his voice as a poet and began performing as a member of the institution's collegiate slam team. Alongside Mouton, he has mentored the youth slam team, Meta-Four.
Visitors attending this event can park in the UHD Girard Street Visitor's Garage (201 Girard St.) and take the elevator to the third floor to enter the Welcome Center.
Mouton and Payne follow in the footsteps of several leading poets and authors who have shared works with audiences at UHD. This spring, the University hosted events featuring U.S. Poet Laureate Juan Felipe Herrera and Pushcart Prize recipient and novelist Daniel Peña, UHD assistant professor of English. Other noted writers who have visited UHD include three-time U.S. Poet Laureate Robert Pinsky and Jimmy Santiago Baca, who served as the 2015 Center for Critical Race Studies Scholar-in-Residence.
UHD's Cultural Enrichment Center, which, coordinates readings, performances, lectures, concerts and exhibitions from esteemed artists and authors, celebrates the cultural diversity of the University and community through programs and events.
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Metra Home Theater and Cleerline Technology answered dealers questions about HDMI 2.1 on a recent CE Pro webinar. Here's a little post-webinar Q&A with Metra's Brent McCall.
The latest generation of passive cables can support 18Gbps distances up to eight meters, says Metra's Brent McCall.
CE Pro's most recent webinar, Answering Your Questions about HDMI 2.1, couldn't have been timed any better.
Back in January, HDMI Licensing announced the new HDMI 2.1 specification. The group's new spec supports higher video resolutions, including 8K at 60Hz and 4K at 120Hz, as well as dynamic HDR that ensures every frame is shown at its ideal values.
New 48G cables facilitate bandwidth capabilities up to 48Gbps to support 8K video with HDR and eARC supports object-based surround sound and an automatic format detect feature. The spec also offers a Game Mode VRR (variable refresh rate) that enables 3D graphic processors to display an image the second it is rendered for improved fluidity and increased detail during game play.
Before HDMI 2.1 hits the market later this year, HDMI and cable manufacturers are working to provide the market with educational materials and compliant products.
The recent CE Pro webinar is just one way HDMI is working to provide as much information as possible in advance of the format's rollout. The webinar features input from both Metra Home Theater and Cleerline Technology.
Brent McCall, product manager, Metra Home Theater, says with the market migrating to higher speed cables, electronics professionals can expect a transitional period where existing HDMI ports and 18Gbps cables will be sufficient to complete installations.
Here's a little post-webinar Q&A with Metra's Brent McCall. If you'd like to watch a recording of the webinar at anytime, click here.
Will new cables be required for v2 or will all our old cables still work?
At this point we [Metra Home Theater] believe that the HDMI terminal will not change in the near future. That being the case, shorter high-speed cables should continue to work.
When will we see the birth of cables that can handle 48 gigs?
While we can't speak for other manufacturers, we had already been working on extended lengths for expanded bandwidth cables when HDMI 2.1 was announced … fortunately it appears that we will be able to transition to the new standard quickly.
How will the industry handle the distance limitation imposed by this data rate 48Gbps or even the current 18Gbps standard?
In reference to the current 18Gbps, that problem has been solved. Passive cables up to eight meters can now support the full 18Gbps data rate. Active cables and fiber systems can meet any of the distance requirements.
Going forward with the new 48Gbps standard, we think the distances supported by copper — passive or active — will be reduced, but they should still meet the needs of most installations. For those longer, fiber will be the answer.
How often can you reuse a HDMI six foot or 12-foot jumper when the cable comes back from the field? The cables are from disconnects from our customers that return the cables to the Cable Stores. Most of them look good and some are dusty. Some are gold plated and others are flash tin-plated.
During our rigorous testing, cables go through the plug/unplug cycle hundreds of times, so with a quality cable, it should not be a problem.
While the difference between gold and tin is often debated, we feel that the performance variances between to two are negligible, however the gold does provide a better long-term solution in corrosion protection.
At this point we do not know the max distance for full 48Gbps. Without knowing the whole spec and transmission method, which has not been released yet, we can't theorize about length.
Once this is available, we will work with DPL labs to provide a very accurate product performance analysis to determine maximum cable length. It's important to note however, technology and max cable length for this new spec may vary by manufacturer.
How much HD do we really need when the sources are limited in broadcast television? Is all of the research based on the peripheral components?
To some degree there is a bit of marketing to sell displays, however the quick acceptance of 4K and HDR, prior to actual 4K/HDR content being available, shows that people still desire a better picture (even if content is lacking at hardware introduction).
Overall, the hardware will always lead before broadcast, so the content will follow once the technology has been introduced and adopted into the marketplace, as we saw with the introduction of 4K TVs. Our best advice is to prepare for the future.
Listen to the entire HDMI 2.1 webinar here.


Sofas and chairs are important living room furniture we all need for our home. You can have one or both for your living room décor if you want. A chair is compact and simple yet can be very cool if you have the right match for your home style.
Chairs are basically in two forms; the armchairs and the armless. Any of these two will make comfy chairs for your living room.
If you want a comfy design in a chair, the fabric finish is what to look out for. A cool fabric will give you that chair that will speak your style loud. Just like you'll have in the sofa designs, synthetic and genuine leather, microfiber, and patterned fabrics add to the beauty of comfy chairs for your living room. Look out for that fabric of your style and bring out the best in your living room.
The tone of your interior décor is best sounded by the color choice. If you have a cool color to match the design pattern, you'll see all coming beautiful for your home. Compare your colors well before going for a choice of one. You can seek guide from color experts if you are not sure. Making it light and cool shows more of being formal than sharp and bright colors.
What is your style of comfy chairs for living room furniture? There are a variety of styles to pick from. The simply accented chairs may be your need for a chair. You have to know what exactly your choice of chair will serve. If you want an alternative to the sofa, going for an oversized chair that has sufficient seating space would be of great use for your seating. You can go for a chaise chair for more comfort. These would give you the relaxational freedom you'll ever want in a chair.
You may as well go for the various types of chairs such as the antique, the classic, the modern and the contemporary types.


text:
By: Sagar Sharma March 13th, 2020
React Native Apps: 7 Successful Apps Built Using React Native
Blog React Native
Creating apps using only one single base for all platforms may not sound real, but React Native gives the hope of making it possible. React Native speeds up the building of multiple apps across various platforms, and the best part is it reuses the code from other apps saving time and additional money to be invested in React Native app development services.
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Both companies and users have shown great interest in developing and using apps built on React Native, respectively when compared to Nativescript and Appcelerator. Similarly, when you compare Xamarin with React Native, as per Google trends, developers have increased love for React Native due to its easy-to-use coding transformation between Android and iOS platforms. As it is built exclusively for mobile users, a statistical report of recent research states that React Native consumes less battery power when compared to Ionic, which makes developers develop more apps using React Native as a primary platform.
Also, compared to native Android and iOS developers, companies have adopted building React Native apps for a better acceleration of app usage.
Hire react native developer to develop successful app like Facebook. Get in touch to share your requirements.
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Facebook wanted to bring its web version as a light feature to its users on mobile thus allowing users to experience a great interface of using their app on mobile phones. Facebook planned to build their mobile app products with one single team, and thus React Native was brought into limelight and leveraged for both Android and iOS users on Facebook's mobile app development.
The development team to check and validate the test performance of the change converted a feature such as a startup time in the Events Dashboard of the Facebook mobile app. This change is a crucial one that determines whether the user will stay on or leave the app. This is just one instance of change that has been implemented with React Native, but there are other features which were fine-tuned and well-used by users.
#2: Skype with React Native
The Skype application was encountering several issues at the beginning and that is when it was announced that they are introducing a new app with React Native technology. Skype was completely revamped right from icons until all the available features previously and added new features for user benefits that gave a new look to the app. Microsoft, with observing the efficacy of React Native, announced that React Native will not be considered as a platform for mobile app development but also the desktop version of Windows. Thus it was realized that React Native has gone a level beyond mobile app development. Moreover, with amazing benefits from React Native, Microsoft gained React Native from GitHub repo, which shows a success sign of React Native users.
#3: Facebook Ads with React Native
Before React Native started supporting social networking platforms such as Facebook, it first began with Facebook ads as React Native app for Android users under Facebook's roof. It was able to fix issues with a lot of business logic required to handle variations in ad formats, time zones, currencies, date formats, currency conventions, etc., particularly if coding for the same is written using JavaScript.
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Instagram has its native app on which many features were developed. It took the challenge of integrating React Native into their existing native app right from changing the simplest view to an extraordinary user interface, especially, converting the push notifications from web view to mobile view. Due to the classy user interface, it did not require a separate navigation infrastructure. Though the development team experienced many toughest tasks while implementing React Native app features into Instagram, they were able to improve the velocity of an app, gradually. 80% to 90% of code was transformed between Android and iOS that saved a lot of time for an app development team.
#5: Tesla with React Native
Tesla is the world's popular electric car producer and recently joined the React Native community. They followed references from Facebook's trending framework for developing an application for the electric car and Powerwall battery. The app is capable of diagnosing a vehicle and identifying its accurate location, as well as controlling it with the help of a smartphone for a few limited features. Though it has not been completely known about their application development, still it has got good feedback from customers on the idea.
#6: Shine with React Native
Shine is a mind-relaxing app for users, who feel stressed and less-motivated or lack of motivation that offer motivational quotes, mottos, and articles and help them relax. When they sign-in for the day, the app offers inspirational/spiritual recordings created by experts that help deal with their everyday stress. First, this app was introduced for iOS users targeting the USA audience because Apple phones held major share value. But very soon they implemented the app in Android and that is why they brought in React native, as the platform is capable of integrating coding easily from iOS to Android.
#7: Uber eats with React Native
Uber has recently announced the integration of React Native by leveraging its features for the Uber eats app. The originally-built Uber app was having a crucial problem of sending push notification sounds, for users. The app involves three parties such as restaurants, delivery-partners and app users and was displaying a dashboard in the web view, which was rectified with bringing in React Native. With limited access to functionalities, instead of changing the existing view, the development team had to rebuild the entire dashboard with React Native.
Some more apps that have integrated with React Native are Walmart, Airbnb, SoundCloud Pulse, Yeti Smart Home, Whym, ChaperHome and more. React Native not only provides betterment to the existing features of your app but also builds wonderful new features that even sometimes, native developers of Android or iOS cannot even perform.
Integrating React Native into new /existing mobile app development is always on the positive side of the market. The aforementioned applications are quite a popular one so that you can understand how React Native helped in the betterment of apps. But there are many customized applications developed using React Native, and it turns out to be a viable alternative for native app development.
Although we understand that every app has its own flaws, still when it comes to offering a wide range of technical possibilities, React Native tops from others. Hence the reason it has become an on-demand technology for every other mobile app development company across the world, and similarly, the opportunity for such skilled developers is also more.
Frequently asked questions on React Native Apps
1. What is the difference between React and React Native?
React Active is no different from React; in fact, React Native uses React for customization of features in the app such as how ReactDOM is used for Web, similarly, React Native is used for easy code transformation between Android and iOS applications. It offers similar access to features how React offers, providing an enhanced UI.
2. Will my React app and React Native app work on both mobile and web?
Unfortunately, it does not work in that manner. React code is flexible and compatible only for applications developed for the web. Similarly, apps developed using the React Native app will work only on mobile devices that it was coded for. Also, some features, you may not be able to bring it in the mobile app as it was written for the web.
3. Will React Native app offers the same interface for my app on both Android and iOS?
Both platforms have separate guidelines to follow. Though sometimes, there are few factors with which we can make it possible, still it should not be performed to leave the appearance of the app's interface just like that. React Native does not offer the same interface between Android and iOS; it only uses the native components from both interfaces.
4. Do not we require native developers if we integrate React Native into an application?
No, you definitely require native developers because they possess immense experience when it comes to configuring mobile integration services and internal app distribution, by configuring certificates in XCode and other related ones. Only native developers can create customization modules for features that cannot be integrated by React Native, be it Android- or iOS-based apps, and it is also easy for native developers to expose the developed custom module to JavaScript and make it function with React Native.
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Flutter vs React Native - How to Select the Right One for Mobile App? ...
10 Best React Developer Tools (to Speed Up React Development)
Top 6 Skills to Look for in a React JS developer (before Hiring One)
Learn React JS and Web Development: Top 10 YouTube Channels to Follow ...


Kraken Attack Sherwood Shooter Penguin Arcade! Maus Force Attack Little Johns Arche..
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Punakha (Djongkha: པདྨ་དགའ་ཚལ་རྫོང་ཁག་) é uma cidade no centro-oeste do Butão na parte leste do Himalaias a cerca de 1500 metros de altitude num ponto em que vários riachos convergem para o rio Sankosh.

latitude: 27° 37' 0 Norte
longitude: 89° 52' 0 Leste
altitude: 1261 metros

Ligações externas
fallingrain.com

Cidades do Butão

redpajama_set_name: RedPajamaWikipedia


text:
home > topics > c / c++ > questions > null reference
Null reference
I'm almost tearing my hair out. A colleague claimed that a null reference can exist, like
void f( int& p )
printf( "%d\n", p );
int main (int argc, char *argv[])
int*p= NULL;
f( *p );
I pointed him to the relevant part of the C++ standard that forbids this in a well-defined
program, but he countered that in the "real world" a reference can be "null". An argument
then ensued in which he managed to raise concerns with two other colleagues because the
crash in the above code is likely to occur where the reference is used, which could be
anywhere, not where the null pointer is dereferenced. One (who has had little experience
with C++) even said that references "shouldn't be used in safety critical code". The other
became concerned because he'd always assumed that a reference has to refer to a valid
object, and now he wonders whether he should test for a "null reference", at least with an
assert, wherever a function takes a reference parameter.
I've tried everything I can think of to return to some sanity, but to no avail. I've told
them:
- That the problem in the code above is not the reference but the dereference of a null
pointer, which is a normal bug that everyone knows to avoid.
- That I can't recall actually coming across a "null reference" bug in a real program in
over a decade of using C++
- That there are a million things you can do that can cause undefined behaviour, so why be
specifically concerned about this one?
- That there are a multitude of ways that a bug can manifest itself long after the code
that caused it executes (e.g., keep a pointer to an object that is subsequently deleted),
so why be specifically concerned about this one?
They are still not convinced that the "null reference" is not a potential problem that
deserves some attention, and I'm looking for ideas as to what else I can say to get it off
the radar completely, where it belongs (that's if the people here agree with me of
course).
Jul 18 '06 #1
Alf P. Steinbach
* David W:
It's formally undefined behavior to dereference a nullpointer.
But it can happen, and the result of using that reference is that Bad
Things Happen.
Another way to obtain an invalid reference is to destroy an object that
some other part of the code holds a reference to (the simplest way to do
this is to return a reference to a local variable), which yields a
dangling reference.
References don't buy you technical safety: null-references and dangling
references can exist -- but null-references can't exist in a valid
program, and dangling references can't be used in a valid program.
Instead of technical safety references buy you simplicity and clear
/communication of intent/, i.e. this is intended to never be null, plus
the possibility of unified notation (e.g. indexing, which can be applied
in template code), all which in turn buys you safety and productivity.
When your function is passed a null-reference or dangling reference you
know that it's an error in the calling code. When a null-pointer or
dangling pointer occurs you don't necessarily know that it's an error in
the calling code. Perhaps you need to handle null-pointers (and the
result is messy checking and deciding what to do or not in that case,
which complicates things, and leads to more of the same, more bugs).
Summing up, your first colleague was right that null-references can
exist, but not that they can exist in a valid program. And you were
right that that situation almost never occurs in practice. Because
apart from simpler notation, the point of a reference is to communicate
that it's intended to never be null or otherwise invalid, so nobody will
try to set it to null-reference.
Your colleague who maintained that references shouldn't be used in
safety-critical code got it exactly backwards.
A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is it such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet and in e-mail?
"Alf P. Steinbach" <al***@start.nowrote in message news:4i************@individual.net...
Well, actually this started when I asked an interviewee what the differences were between
pointers and references, and he said that one difference was that a reference couldn't be
null. After the interview my colleague claimed that he was wrong. In the context of the
interview - pure C++ questions without considering the usual implementation on actual
compilers - I would say that my colleague was wrong.
but not that they can exist in a valid program. And you were
Frederick Gotham
David W posted:
They are still not convinced that the "null reference" is not a
potential problem that deserves some attention, and I'm looking for
ideas as to what else I can say to get it off the radar completely,
where it belongs (that's if the people here agree with me of course).
You are correct. Your colleagues are wrong. Plain and simple.
(1) It's undefined behaviour to dereference a null pointer.
(2) It's undefined behaviour to have a null reference.
What you and your colleagues need to debate is NOT whether a null reference
is a good thing, but rather whether you want to write portable, Standard
C++-compliant code.
At the moment, it is NOT portable, Standard C++-compliant code.
If you want some sort of null reference maybe try something like:
struct AlignedByte {
char unsigned * const p;
AlignedByte() : p(new char unsigned) {}
~AlignedByte() { delete p; }
} aligned_byte;
template<class T>
inline T &NullRef()
return reinterpret_cast<T&>(*aligned_byte.p);
inline bool IsNull(T &ref)
return reinterpret_cast<char unsigned const*>(&ref) == aligned_byte.p;
/* Here comes the usage demonstration code */
using std::string;
void SomeFunc(string &arg)
if (IsNull(arg)) return;
arg += "success";
string obj = "doctor";
SomeFunc(obj);
SomeFunc( NullRef<string>() );
Frederick Gotham posted:
Opps, I was typing quickly and got carried away. I would never use that form
of initialisation for a class type, but rather:
string obj("doctor");
Michiel.Salters
Frederick Gotham wrote:
No, there is no such thing a a "null reference" so it cannot be
behavior to have one. There are no such things as invisible pink
in ISO C++ either, and therefore they aren't undefined behavior either.
Once you have undefined behavior in a C++ program, it stops being a
program that you can describe in standard C++ terms. "reference" in
this context is definitely a standard term, and doesn't apply anymore.
The best way to describe what actually happens at that point is
assembly terminology. E.g. one can talk about a SEGV.
Michiel Salters
Michiel posted:
<snip wordplay>
Julián Albo
David W wrote:
in safety critical code". The other became concerned because he'd always
assumed that a reference has to refer to a valid object, and now he
wonders whether he should test for a "null reference", at least with an
A better solution can be:
void f (int * p)
assert (p != 0); // Or throw an exception, or both
int & ref= * p;
With constructs like that, isolate the parts of the code that uses
references from the parts where pointers can be used without care.
Of course, is better to never use pointers without care.
Noah Roberts
This is just something I've come to expect in the world of
proffessional programming. I've often run into brick walls in
arguments I think should be cut and dry. For instance whether to make
use of exceptions (argument against is that they are "slow" and cost
extra even when not fired - yet we have to use the stdlib so we pay all
costs anyway...I digress), or making use of boost and the stdlib (I
used to have to justify every use of the stdlib classes vector and
string to the lead - less and less now but it is still annoying..we
still don't use boost because we don't use "3rd party libraries" (ask
me how many wheels I've invented)).
I've just grown to expect that people have their own oppinions and
quite often those oppinions are based on outdated facts or just plain
ignorance to the real facts. It's not worth fighting beyond explaining
the facts and letting the descision get made. If they want to pay you
to go around and change all references to pointers and place asserts
then so be it. If they want to cripple their ability to write secure
code to get secure code then it's not your place to do otherwise unless
you are the lead; just like I'm often crippling the compiler's ability
to optimize and being slow to develop by reinventing "fast" code all
the damn time. I try to convince them that I'm not smarter than the
compiler writers or the people who wrote our implementation's stdlib
but they consistantly expect me to be and consistantly keep me from
using good abstractions because they have some idea that they won't be
efficient - no, no profiling occurs.
When someone asks you why your code is inefficient and error prone you
can explain that you could have done better if you weren't stuck with a
crippled version of the language...assuming you can show this. Just
document every case where you could have done a better or faster job
given the right tools. You might also consider getting your resume
together again before you get a bunch of bad habits in you; I've been
putting mine together as I want to find some place where there are
people I can learn from and I feel I have reached an upper limit of
learning at my current job.
Teamwork is nice. I like working in teams instead of alone; for the
most part I like the team I am in. But sometimes you have to do stupid
things because that is what the team decides...even though that might
just be one or two people with bigger salaries than you and the rest of
the team. So, I've said my piece and you seem to have said yours. The
other side's argument might be dumb, and in this case it certainly is,
but there isn't much that can be done...they don't seem convincable in
either of our situations. That's life.
Noah Roberts wrote:
they don't seem convincable in
Of course, you could ask them how you are supposed to overload
operators without using references. If they want to remove references
then you can't and you can mention the crippling of the entire std
library (most containers and algorithms will be unusable). If they
want to use references only where it has to be done then ask them what
steps will need be taken to assure that their "safety concerns" are
addressed in those rather common cases. Once that is done ask them why
they don't just use those steps anywhere a reference is used instead of
making policy that they are never used.
By making them face the fact that they have to use references or
reinvent the entire standard library you should be a long way toward
winning them over. Then by making them explain what would be needed to
make references safe they will likely convince themselves that they
already are and you'll start checking your pointers before turning them
into references.
If that doesn't work, nothing will.
Jul 18 '06 #10
"Frederick Gotham" <fg*******@SPAM.comwrote in message
news:oL*******************@news.indigo.ie...
is a good thing,
We aren't debating that. No one wants to use a null reference. The debate is about the
possibility of creating one by accident and whether any effort should be made in
preventing it or detecting it. I have no problem with an assert to ensure that a pointer
is not null where it's dereferenced in places where the preceding code doesn't guarantee
that it's not null. But I have a big problem with wasting time and thought on references
as possibly being null or otherwise invalid. It's just too unlikely to bother with. If you
worry about null references then there are thousands of other equally unlikely potential
bugs you should worry about as well.
The point is that there is only one way to create a null reference and
that is to dereference a null pointer. It is the dereferencing of the
null pointer that is the problem and at such a point the code is
_already_ generating undefined behavior. The test for null should be
at the point where the bug occurs, at the dereference of the pointer,
NOT at the reference. For one thing, at the later point the entire
thing is in an undefined state so the test for null is pretty much
pointless....it could pass and then proceed to blow up and still be
standard conformant.
Any program that has defined behavior will have a valid, non-null,
reference. Any program that has a null reference has been in an
undefined state for longer than that reference has existed. Catching a
null reference does not help you find the bug because, as was stated by
your oposition, the bug is somewhere else. Catch it where it happens,
not where you feel its effects.
In other words, where is the bug?
int * x = 0;
int & y = *x;
Now, insert a test where it _belongs_:
assert ( x );
"Noah Roberts" <ro**********@gmail.comwrote in message
news:11**********************@35g2000cwc.googlegro ups.com...
operators without using references.
We haven't even got onto to discussing where you can't do without references. Only one
person has recommended not using references (so far), and he's a firmware guy who rarely
writes C++ at all. I hope it doesn't go any further.
If they want to remove references
addressed in those rather common cases.
I imagine they will want to do something like:
void f( const int &n )
assert(&n);
It might look simple and harmless, but what bothers me is the thinking that leads one to
want to do this. One of the advantages of using a reference is not having to worry about
checking for null! I'm also concerned about what other influences this thinking might
have, such as possibly having a policy of not using references unless absolutely necessary
for fear of someone forgetting the assert. It also makes an assumption about the
compiler's implementation of references (an entirely reasonable one I admit, but I'm still
not comfortable with it).
(I hasten to point out that the code in my first post was my colleague's "proof" that a
null reference is possible; I wouldn't have used printf to make a C++ point!)
Once that is done ask them why
news:11*********************@m79g2000cwm.googlegro ups.com...
preventing it or detecting it. I have no problem with an assert to ensure that a
is not null where it's dereferenced in places where the preceding code doesn't
that it's not null. But I have a big problem with wasting time and thought on
as possibly being null or otherwise invalid. It's just too unlikely to bother with. If
worry about null references then there are thousands of other equally unlikely
NOT at the reference.
Exactly. I made this point in the strongest possible terms at the outset, by quoting the
(8.3.2.4) ... A reference shall be initialized to refer to a valid object or function.
[Note: in particular, a null reference cannot exist in a well-defined program, because the
only way to create such a reference would be to bind it to the "object" obtained by
dereferencing a null pointer, which causes undefined behavior. ...]
For one thing, at the later point the entire
Yes, but my colleagues are thinking about our practical circumstances. They know how the
compiler works and are more concerned with that than with what the standard says, which
they regard as theoretical and not reflecting reality. They know the program will work as
expected until the reference is used. They are right, so it's difficult to argue against
I agree. They might argue that you can't guarantee that everyone will remember the assert
every time, but if I'm lucky perhaps that won't occur to them.
Exactly. I made this point in the strongest possible terms at the
outset, by quoting the standard:
(8.3.2.4) ... A reference shall be initialized to refer to a valid
object or function. [Note: in particular, a null reference cannot exist
in a well-defined program, because the only way to create such a
reference would be to bind it to the "object" obtained by dereferencing
a null pointer, which causes undefined behavior. ...]
Yes, but my colleagues are thinking about our practical circumstances.
They know how the compiler works and are more concerned with that than
with what the standard says, which they regard as theoretical and not
reflecting reality. They know the program will work as expected until
the reference is used. They are right, so it's difficult to argue
against this.
OK, so their code works on a given platform -- BRILLIANT.
As far as the Standard is concerned, it's non-portable.
Any decision to continue using "null references" is a conscious decision to
flout the Standard (unless you plan on submitting a proposal... ?)
So what's more important:
(1) Using null references.
(2) Abiding by the Standard.
Ian Collins
>>For one thing, at the later point the entire
What exactly does the working of this particular version of you compiler
have to do with cresting a null reference?
They would be better off preventing the condition arising than
attempting to detect it. The standard isn't theoretical, there is only
one way to create a null reference. Just ensure you have comprehensive
unit tests.
Ian Collins.
"Ian Collins" <ia******@hotmail.comwrote in message
news:4i************@individual.net...
Yes, but my colleagues are thinking about our practical circumstances. They know how
compiler works and are more concerned with that than with what the standard says,
they regard as theoretical and not reflecting reality. They know the program will work
expected until the reference is used. They are right, so it's difficult to argue
They expect that references will be implemented as pointers in all future versions, and
that assigning a reference to a dereferenced pointer will not actually perform the
dereference, and they are almost certainly right. That's the problem, really. There's no
other reasonable implementation and they know it.
Yes, checking at the point of dereference should be sufficient.
Harald van Dijk
Just a nit, but isn't it possible to get a (platform-specific) null
reference without dereferencing a null pointer like this?
struct { int &r, m; } s = { s.m };
std::memset(&s, '\0', sizeof(s));
/* s.r is probably a null reference now, even if you can't portably
rely on that */
And if you do it like this, and don't ever use s.r in any way, at what
point is the behaviour undefined?
* Harald van Dijk:
>David W posted:
>>They are still not convinced that the "null reference" is not a
No, s is not of aggregate type. But that's just a nit... ;-) Put in a
default constructor and leave out the initializer.
Undefined behavior is undefined even if a compiler defines it.
Naturally, because otherwise there would be /no/ undefined behavior: any
construct that has formally undefined behavior results in some concrete
behavior on a concrete system, and that concrete behavior is a
definition of the behavior on that system.
However, a great many people have difficulty understanding this. For
example, there is an ongoing thread in [comp.std.c++] right now, where
this is the subject of a sub-thread. I think my explanation above, a
reduction to the absurd of the opposite position, is so simple that
anybody should understand it, but if not, I'm sure others will step in.
It is, quite frankly, the only valid way. Just look at the hackery
required to check a "null" reference. You can't say assert( ref ).
You have to say assert( &ref ). This is just plain nonsensical. Can
they guarantee that will always work the way the expect and doesn't
cause undefined behavior of its own? Remember, the program is
_already_ in an undefined state if that assert fails and God only knows
what kind of behavior you will experience. There are things an
implementation could do that would cause you to crash before the assert
ever gets a chance to fire.
You don't assert that a reference is in a real location just like you
don't assert that a variable is in a real location. If your team is
really concerned that there could be a lot of null references in their
programs then they are writing erroneous code and not using pointers
correctly. There are NUMEROUS steps they should be taking already that
would make a null reference _impossible_ to occur and if they are
worried, then they are not taking those steps.
Your team is depending on undefined behavior _when_they_don't_have_to_.
It is already more correct and well-defined to assert a pointer's
validity while it is a pointer and this is when it should be being
done. Instead your team wishes to rely on undefined behavior to check
that pointer's validity later, when it is no longer a pointer??!!
You should be filling out your resume. Get out of that place.
Phlip
cause undefined behavior of its own?
Once a program enters the undefined behavior, its state is never defined
again. So the undefinity of assert(&ref) itself is a moot point.
http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?ZeekLand <-- NOT a blog!!!
Yes, get out of there. If they want to assert a reference then they
are not asserting their pointers. Your team has lost it dude. Some
sort of screwy group-think going on triggered by an "expert" who
obviously doesn't understand a damn thing.
Phlip wrote:
I know but it's just more ammo against having to do something totally
stupid. Actually assert( &ref ) is not undefined...it is the undefined
nature of the program that causes that statement to be unpredictable.
I'll use undefined behavior if I have to and am targeting a very
specific architecture but I certainly don't rely on it unless I have to
and I certainly don't when there is a better, more correct way of doing
what I want. Check a pointer's validity while it is a pointer is one
of those cases.
Any time you use undefined behavior in your program you run the risk
that something could hapen that causes it to break down....and just
because a reference is always going to be a pointer doesn't mean that
the undefinedness goes away or that the architecture itself couldn't
change in a way that makes the program unpredictable. Use it VERY
judiciously.
The point I was trying to make really is that there is no way to check
the validity of a reference. There is also no need since the reference
is known to be valid since pointers are always checked...in code not
made by retarded monkeys.
Actually, they are likely wrong in many cases. I would expect a
reference assignment could look something akin to:
int * ref = &(*p);
That is a very reasonable implementation at the least even if it isn't
very optimized.
At any rate, guessing what the implementation is doing here and
depending on it is just plain stupid. There is no other way to say it.
There are at least two assumptions going on: 1) references and
pointers are the same; and 2) assigning a dereferenced pointer to a
reference is just a copy and doesn't dereference the pointer. Neither
of these are known facts and the implementation is free to do
otherwise. The fact that there is _absolutely_ no reason to do this,
ever, only compounds the fact that it shouldn't be done.
Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
Is the standard's wording different from the draft? That says
"An aggregate is an array or a class (clause 9) with no user-declared
constructors (12.1), no private or protected non-static data members
(clause 11), no base classes (clause 10), and no virtual functions
(10.3)."
Anyway, if that's not allowed, thanks for the info. It didn't seem
directly relevant to the question, so I simply relied on my compilers.
Two of them don't complain about it regardless of options, and a third
gives a highly misleading error message ("A non-const reference can't
be initialized using an rvalue"). But pretend I used a constructor,
then.
Right, but that's not what I meant. I didn't mean it would "work", I
asked at what point the behaviour would be undefined. Any object can be
read from and written to as an array of (unsigned) char, right? Sure,
reading the object afterwards is not allowed if a non-value is written,
but I specifically said s.r would never be used. (If it makes a
difference, s would never be used.)
Yeah, anyone can define anything, and definitions aren't authoritative
unless the C++ standard says they are. No problem, that I get.
>* Harald van Dijk:
>>Frederick Gotham wrote:
Thanks, I was wrong, it actually is an aggregate (the definition of POD
explicitly excludes aggregates with references). So instead of a
constructor you can just put an int variable in the initializer. Learned
something today...
>> std::memset(&s, '\0', sizeof(s));
asked at what point the behaviour would be undefined.
Not sure whether this code (when the initialization is corrected) /has/
undefined behavior.
Any object can be
read from and written to as an array of (unsigned) char, right?
Depends what you mean. In practice, yes, with the limitation that the
address range of a non-POD object obtained from & and sizeof may not
always contain the complete representation of the object. In the
formal, no (you can do that for POD type per §3.9/1 but the standard
doesn't guarantee the result for non-POD type), and furthermore, in the
formal, a reference isn't an object.
news:11*********************@h48g2000cwc.googlegro ups.com...
It's not quite that bad yet. We are still in a discussion phase about it, but it hasn't
been discussed in the last day. I'm hoping it will just fade away now.
It's not quite that bad yet. We are still in a discussion phase about it,
but it hasn't been discussed in the last day. I'm hoping it will just fade
away now.
Remember the ancient words of wisdom "softlee softlee catchee monkey".
That means if the monkey(s) sees you coming thinking about catching them,
they will run away. If you just walk past, obviously and honestly with
nothing on your mind, they won't notice you until it's too late. Don't
spook them.
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