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Tag Archive for: Monoclonal Antibody
How Could Clinical Trials Fit Into Your Myeloma Treatment Plan?
January 13, 2022 /in MM Newly Diagnosed, MM Programs, MM Thrive, MM Thrive Living With, MM Treatments and Clinical Trials, MM Videos ND, MM Videos TC, Multiple Myeloma /by Kara Rayburn
How Could Clinical Trials Fit Into Your Myeloma Treatment Plan? from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.
Considering a clinical trial? Dr. Omar Nadeem, a myeloma specialist, shares advice for talking to your doctor about trials, including key questions to ask your physician about proposed treatments.
Dr. Omar Nadeem is the Clinical Director of Myeloma Cellular Therapies Program and Director of Myeloma and Plasma Cell Pathways at the Dana-Farber Cancer Institute. Learn more about Dr. Nadeem, here.
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Updates in CAR T-Cell Therapy for Myeloma from ASH 2021
The Latest in Myeloma Research: Updates from ASH 2021
Myeloma Treatment: When Should a Clinical Trial Be Considered?
Katherine:
As ASH comes to a close, it's always important to remember that these research advances wouldn't be possible without patients participating in clinical trials. So, for patients who may be thinking about a clinical trial, when should they consider a trial and what should they be asking their doctor about?
Dr. Nadeem:
Those are great questions and very relevant questions. I think clinical trials come in many baskets. They come in the trials I just described, which are looking at established combinations and then looking to see if the addition of another agent, which is FDA approved, could lead to better results. So, those are some examples of trials where you're trying to really advance the field by using what we already have available and studying it in either different phases of myeloma therapy or in different combinations.
Those types of trials, I think, are always very important and useful, and from a patient perspective, it should alleviate that anxiety of going on to a study that doesn't have a track record, per se. And a lot of those trials are done in the newly diagnosed, or the first relapse setting, etcetera.
When you've had multiple relapses, though, we know that the disease is still not curable. So, you start to see the benefit of each treatment become shorter and shorter as patients go through their myeloma therapy, and that's where some of these newer, exciting – especially immunotherapy drugs that are currently under study really, really are promising.
So, I think from a patient perspective, a lot of times that discussion – you're looking at an agent that's approved but they might not have the efficacy that we're seeing in some of the studies.
And I think you have to discuss with your physician at that time to see whatever the clinical trial that we're discussing or thinking about for a particular patient, what is different about it? Why is it something that they would be thinking about for their individual case? Then really, what is the expectation?
I think what we're seeing now with all these updated results is that some of these response rates, for example, with bispecific antibodies, which is a form of immunotherapy that we're studying quite a bit in myeloma, they look twice as good if not three times as good as some of these single agent drugs that were FDA-approved.
So, even though you might want to get the true and tested that's been studied and cleared, the results that we're seeing with some of these studies are so much better. So, that's how the field moves forward. So, I think the discussion with your primary physician is key to see which particular trial, is one available, and two, what they think might be best for that particular situation.
https://powerfulpatients.org/pen/wp-content/uploads/How-Could-Clinical-Trials-Fit-Into-Your-Myeloma-Treatment-Plan_.png 600 600 Kara Rayburn https://www.powerfulpatients.org/pen/wp-content/uploads/New-Logo-300x126.png Kara Rayburn2022-01-13 09:58:052022-01-13 10:00:42How Could Clinical Trials Fit Into Your Myeloma Treatment Plan?
January 13, 2022 /in MM Newly Diagnosed, MM Programs, MM Thrive, MM Thrive Treatment, MM Treatments and Clinical Trials, MM Videos ND, MM Videos TC, Multiple Myeloma /by Kara Rayburn
The Latest in Myeloma Research: Updates from ASH 2021 from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.
Myeloma specialist, Dr. Omar Nadeem, shares promising research advances in myeloma from the 2021 American Society of Hematology (ASH) annual meeting. Dr. Nadeem discusses the future of personalized medicine for myeloma, as well as positive results from a clinical study on quadruplet therapy.
An Expert's Hopeful Outlook on Myeloma Research and Treatment
Personalized medicine for myeloma is slowly becoming more of a reality for patients. Can you provide an update in testing in myeloma? Are there specific markers that you're looking for when considering patient care?
So in multiple myeloma, right now the only targeted therapy that's in development is looking at venetoclax (Venclexta), and that's in patients that have the t(11;14) translocation.
So, this has been studied for a while, both as single agent and in combinations and the big BELLINI study, which is looking at it in combination with bortezomib (Velcade) and dexamethasone (Decadron), really has had a lot of buzz over the last few years because there was a toxicity signal with the venetoclax arm.
But now with, again, updated results, etcetera, you're starting to look to see which are the patients that benefited and which are the patients that didn't.
And it's becoming very, very clear that patients that have the t(11;14) translocation tend to benefit tremendously with the combination of venetoclax and bortezomib and dexamethasone. It's really the patients that don't have t(11;14) or high BCL2 expression, which is something that they're also studying, those are the patients that didn't benefit.
So, really fine tuning that to that particular population and using a combination like that is, I think, an example of where things are headed in myeloma. However, outside of that right now with where things stand, we don't have targeted therapy to that extent beyond that.
Dr. Nadeem, with the ASH meeting closing out 2021, what are you excited about in myeloma research right now?
We're seeing very impressive results with using quadruplet therapies for newly diagnosed multiple myeloma patents. So, they get a combination of a CD38 monoclonal antibody like daratumamab (Darzalex), and then combining it with our typical agents. So immunomodulatory, drugs, proteasome inhibitors, and steroids. So, an update at this meeting with the phase-2 GRIFFIN trial, which was presented by my colleague Dr. Jacob Laubach, basically giving an update after 24 months of maintenance therapy.
This trial looked at a combination of dara plus RVD, which is lenalidomide, bortezomib, and dexamethasone, with transplant and maintenance, for patients with newly diagnosed myeloma. And what we've seen with each update of this study, that the response rates with the quadruplets are significantly better with the triplet. And more notably, we're seeing very high rates of minimal residual disease negativity in favor of the quadruplet, which usually translates into a greater prognosis for patients.
So, median PFS is still not reached for this particular study, but you can start to see now that the curves are starting to separate and hopefully with longer follow up, we'll see even a clearer result showing that patients that receive a quadruplet therapy at the newly diagnosed phase of their myeloma therapy benefit tremendously. So, this was a really important update at ASH this year.
https://powerfulpatients.org/pen/wp-content/uploads/The-Latest-in-Myeloma-Research_-Updates-from-ASH-2021.png 600 600 Kara Rayburn https://www.powerfulpatients.org/pen/wp-content/uploads/New-Logo-300x126.png Kara Rayburn2022-01-13 09:52:202022-01-13 09:58:44The Latest in Myeloma Research: Updates from ASH 2021
How to Play an Active Role in Your Myeloma Treatment and Care Decisions
June 29, 2021 /in MM Engage, MM Engage Understanding, MM Newly Diagnosed, MM Programs, MM Treatments and Clinical Trials, MM Videos ND, MM Videos TC, MM Videos WN, MM Whats Next, Multiple Myeloma, Patient Empowerment, PEN Blog /by Kara Rayburn
How to Play an Active Role in Your Myeloma Treatment and Care Decisions from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.
How can you actively participate in your myeloma care and treatment decisions? Engaging with your healthcare team is essential and may lead to better overall outcomes. In this program, Dr. Rafael Fonseca provides tips for how best to advocate for yourself or a loved one, as well as tools for making treatment and care decisions.
Dr. Rafael Fonseca is the interim director of Mayo Clinic Cancer Center and serves as the director for Innovation and Transformational Relationships at Mayo Clinic in Arizona. Learn more about Dr. Fonseca here.
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Katherine Banwell:
Hello and welcome. I'm Katherine Banwell, your host for today's program. Today we're going to explore how to engage with your healthcare team when diagnosed with myeloma, and we'll discuss the patient's role in care decisions. Before we get into the discussion, please remember that this program is not a substitute for seeking medical advice. Please refer to your healthcare team about what might be best for you. Let's meet our guest today. Joining me is Dr. Rafael Fonseca. Dr. Fonseca, welcome, and would you please introduce yourself?
Dr. Rafael Fonseca:
Yes, of course. Happy to do that. Thank you very much, Katherine.
I am a hematologist/oncologist, but I specialize in the area of multiple myeloma. I work at the Mayo Clinic in Arizona. I currently serve also as interim executive director for the Mayo Clinic Cancer Center that is at large across the Mayo Clinic enterprise. But at heart, I'm a myeloma doctor and I love to take care of myeloma patients. I devote my research and the rest of my academic activities to the field of myeloma.
Excellent. Thank you so much for joining us today. Let's start with a question that's on the mind of many of our audience members. We're hearing that the COVID-19 vaccine is safe, but how effective is it for myeloma patients?
Dr. Fonseca:
Thank you. I think that's a fundamental question. It's hard to know precisely how to gauge effectiveness when it comes to vaccination because historically, we know that is done by measuring antibodies and there's a number of publications that are addressing this.
The concern has been two-fold. One is that because the disease itself is something that starts from the person's immune cells become cancerous, that perhaps that would prevent them from having a very good response. Number two, and perhaps more importantly, will the treatments that are used for myeloma, etc. or lymphoma, can they interfere with our ability to mount an effective immune response? I think the response is mixed right now. I think I tell all my patients the upside is much better than the downside. I think we have a good record now of the safety of this product. I encourage everyone to get their vaccination.
I think it's important to discuss this with your healthcare provider because sometimes people say, "Should I stop a little bit so that I can get a better response?" While it's theoretically possible, we don't want people to stop treatment if they don't have to do that. Just my very last quick comment, the good news is that the community transmission is clearly going down as more and more people have participated in the vaccination.
We have more people who now have participated in this level of immunity that we have in the community. Hopefully, for patients as well as for their families, the risk of contracting this will continue to decrease.
Yeah. We can only hope. Well, let's learn a little bit more about the disease itself. Dr. Fonseca, to level set with our audience, can you help us understand myeloma?
I'm happy to do so. Multiple myeloma is a cancer form of the bone marrow that arises when the cells that under normal circumstances protect us by the formation of antibodies. These are called the plasma cells. They become malignant. Myeloma is the last stage of a process where a plasma cell can go through a benign tumor or benign phase, if you may, something we call the monoclonal gammopathy, which by the way is quite common. About two percent of people over the age of 50 have this abnormality. Think of it like the colon polyp, a precursor condition.
There's an intermediate stage that we call smoldering multiple myeloma, which is just more growth, but not quite at the level that it creates problems for the individual.
Then lastly, what we just simply call multiple myeloma, and that is when the growth of those cells becomes of such magnitude that a person starts having problems or starts having symptoms related to that. These cells live predominantly inside the bones in the space we call the bone marrow. They can do a number of things that actually lead to the symptoms and to the clinical presentation. As they grow in the bone marrow, they take some of that real estate.
A person may experience fatigue and that is because they have anemia.
The myeloma cells are also very characteristic because they can erode into the structure of bones, so destruction of bone is another feature that we see in patients with myeloma. That can be either seen on x-rays or sometimes people will present with symptoms related to bone pain or discomfort with movement or weight bearing. Those are signs that we look for.
Lastly, the myeloma cells product proteins and some of the fragments of those proteins can be damaging to the kidneys. Occasionally, people will present with decreased kidney function and sometimes outright failure of the kidneys. Those are the common presentations. It is a disease that mostly affects people in their 70s. It is not something that you can detect through routine testing; it's just indirectly we start seeing abnormalities and then we do the right testing. If anyone is hearing this, of course, they need to have a detailed discussion with their own provider.
Of course, yeah. When a person is diagnosed with myeloma, they usually have a whole healthcare team. Who is typically on that team?
Absolutely. Let me start by saying the key to the successful management of myeloma is to have a well-organized team. It's a disease that requires an integrated approach that usually brings around the patient a physician.
As part of my team, we also have advanced practice providers. We work with nurse practitioners that help us do the longitudinal care of patients. We have the nursing team. Every time I meet a new patient, I make it a point to bring my nursing team into the room so they can put a name and a face together, as patients will be interacting, of course, with a nursing team through the portal and the various visits. We have a team that is in charge of the chemotherapy administration. That is usually a separate a nursing team that is in charge of the administration of the medications. But we really don't stop there.
We have pharmacists who help us review the medications for our patients. Very importantly, we have social workers that help us address psychosocial needs, as well as some of the practicalities that become inevitable when one deals with a serious diagnosis like multiple myeloma.
Yeah. Lately, we've been hearing this term, "shared decision making," which basically means that patients and clinicians collaborate to make healthcare decisions, and it can help patients to take a more active role in their care.
I'd like to get your thoughts, Dr. Fonseca, on how best to make this process work.
We are very fortunate to live in this time of medicine, where ultimately, we recognize that the patient is the person expert. It is the patient decisions that should drive what is to be done in a situation. Whenever I interact with patients, I tell them, "Listen, I'm going to be like your counselor. I will provide you with options of what I think is reasonable. I will go to different degrees of effort in trying to convince you one way or another for a particular intervention. But at the end of the day, I only do a good job if I present you with the options and the pros and cons of those various approaches."
I weave that into my language on every single conversation we have with patients. I think we're way past the time where a physician would come and say, "This is what you're going to do," or "This is what will happen." My language always includes, "I would recommend this."
"I think the next best step for you to consider would be X, Y, or Z." But ultimately, I look at patients and not infrequently at the person next to them, a family member or a close friend, and I say, "You're the boss and with the person next to you providing additional support, comment, and guidance, we can together reach the best decision of what should proceed." I think we're incredibly fortunate because patients have access to sophisticated information, especially patients that have serious conditions such as would be cancer and, in my case, myeloma.
As an example, when I work with general internal medicine residents that work with me learning about hematology, I sometimes tell them, "You're gonna walk into a room. Are you gonna be seeing what I say, this is like a tennis match between professionals. Are you gonna see the level of questions that patients are going to be asking me? They're going to be asking me about the latest study that was presented at this meeting and the P value and this and that."
"I can guarantee you that you would not have the tools to be able to address all those questions, simply because there's such an in-depth understanding of the disease." I realize this is not everyone. I'm giving you an extreme example. There are individuals that need additional support, more resources. But just to interact with someone who has such commitment to understand their disease and to help us by that understanding make the right decision makes my job so much more rewarding.
What do you think is the role of a patient then in their care?
I think it needs to be … I'm describing in some detail and there's a lot to unpack there. Of course, patients are dealing with a very serious diagnosis. It's okay to have periods where they are in a pause moment and they're reflecting of what their facing, and that they can gather information from close family members.
I think we, as providers and the medical team, need to deliver a message that provides clear options for them as far as what the best next phase of their treatment or their management might be, including observations or supportive care. But the patient ultimately is a person who has to make that decision. I frequently get the question, and this is not surprising, and it happens all the time. A patient tells me, "What would you do if this was a family member?" I always tell them, "I always talk to you as if you were my family member, as if you were my brother, my mother, my father.
So, I try to live deeply to that fiduciary responsibility I have to your well-being. I recognize that there are circumstances, and that's part of the finesse and the art of medicine, that I have to help a little bit more walk you through that step. Sometimes, it's just human that one may want to say, I just want to disconnect. Maybe I'm not the person that wants to go and read in detail. But perhaps I have my daughter or my son who are helping me and understand better where things are."
I think one of the key aspects of my role is to make sure that I have a sense that the person has a good understanding to be able to make an informed decision. At the end of it all, if the person decides to proceed in such way that doesn't necessarily align with what I'm trying to do, I'm deeply respectful of that choice. I will go to extra lengths. So, if someone is foregoing treatment, when I know their treatment has a high likelihood of improving their quality of life, relieve a symptom, or improve survival, I don't think I would do a good job if I don't present why that's so important. But ultimately, it is the patient's decision.
Related to what you've just been speaking about, we have a question from the audience. This one is from Sarah. Her question is, "What advice do you have for caregivers? How can I be supportive during appointments?"
That's a great question.
I have experienced this both as a physician, as well as a caregiver myself to someone who has had a cancer. I think I'm gonna say that there are several roles that caregivers play. Some of them are obvious and I'm gonna call them practical or perhaps even pedestrian, you know, organizing the activities of every day. That's important, but a lot of people can do that. The second role is to be in assistance for the knowledge that is needed for some of this decision making. Sometimes patients can be overwhelmed, and we need some support and some vetting and peer process from a trusted and loved person so you can go through that.
That is very helpful, but what is essential, and the number one thing is you are first and foremost the loving family member or friend of that individual who is living through a very profound human experience. I think the first role of a caregiver has to be to express that role.
I, myself, reflect on moments where perhaps in a quick, reactive way I wanted to solve some of the immediate practicalities and what was needed most was a direct support. Even if I face a situation today, if I was, again, a caregiver for someone with a serious diagnosis with cancer, I would start with that priority. Number one, you are the support and the loving person. Number two is I will try to provide information. And number three, hopefully you can help with meals and the driving and what have you. But there's many more people who can come and help in that regard. Not a lot can do the first part.
Right, absolutely. Yeah, those are excellent points. Let's talk about treatment goals. What are the goals of myeloma treatment from a clinical perspective?
I've been very fortunate, also, to live through this era when we have seen a plethora of studies and new drugs being approved for the treatment of myeloma.
When I first started, I used to say no one wanted to do myeloma because we didn't have good treatments. People wanted to study leukemia, lymphoma. It just turns out that this is probably one of the most vibrant areas of hematology from a science and from a clinical research perspective, of course. If I see young patients who have multiple myeloma, I have essentially two goals. The first one is to induce the deepest possible response I can do so in a safe manner. I also repeat, "in a safe manner." But I really have the goal to try to induce the deepest response possible because that has translated and continues to translate, and in many ways proven to be associated with an improvement on their longevity and the time we can control the disease.
And it leads me to second goal, and that is that I firmly believe there is a subset of myeloma patients that are cured from their disease.
Now, this is possible because of the availability of these new treatments. I will only be able to say that in 10 and 15 years from now, when we have monitored patients for a long period of time, and we have been able to see that became true. But by all indicators, we have patients that are living many, many years without the disease coming back. I think that would be important. Now, we have patients that with more advanced age sometimes it's difficult to propose some of the most intense form of treatments like stem-cell transplants.
We don't do a lot of that in individuals over the age of 72 just because the toll that it takes on a person is very high, and the risks become higher. But still, in that population, providing the best treatment possible becomes a goal because I think more and more, we're seeing patients in that age category that can start to get close to what normal life expectancy would be. It's not there. It's not perfect, but you start to get close. Lastly, if someone asked me, I have that balance between quantity and quality, the good news in myeloma, if you do it right, quantity and quality go hand in hand.
So, effective treatment provides symptom relief and provides durability of responses.
That's excellent. What other factors do you consider when determining a treatment approach?
The human experience that comes to the bedside as we consider treatments is so multi-factorial and multi-complex that all that needs to be brought into consideration. Whenever I walk into the room, I tell residents usually the medical part can be resolved pretty quick, but we're reading how much we can communicate? What's the level of understanding? What do I understand about the support system for this person? Is there someone who can drive to the treatment center? Is there someone perhaps whose other medical conditions would create certain challenges in how they're gonna be treated?
This person is telling me they do daily hikes for four miles. Well, that's different from someone who I see comes into the clinic and has to use a cane. We try to integrate all of that information to make the right decisions. I've made a lot of my career in the early years working and showing how, for instance, genetic factors are important. I've come to realize later in my career and through some of the very elegant work that other colleagues have done, that these factors are just as important in determining the ultimate outcome of patients. Whenever I talk about that clinical experience, there's two things I always tell the residents.
I use the residents a lot because I think it's a good example of how we aspire to interact with patients. Number one is every single encounter is a final exam. You have to put your best foot forward. Every single encounter should be considered a final exam. Number two is when I walk into that room, there are three things I do, particularly the first time I meet a person.
Number one is connect, right? We cannot have a conversation and I'm not gonna be able to move forward unless we have a human connection and I have gained the trust of the patient and the family members that are there. That's number one. The second point is decide. That is usually okay, we're gonna do this treatment or that. That is a small part. Most of the time for me, that's a very small fraction of the time and of the mental energy that I consume. There's cases that are more complicated, but most of the time it's pretty straightforward. So, it's connect, decide do very small, and then on the other end is explain.
So, that's how I can connect. I propose we do this, and then why we are gonna do it and what can you expect. If you can do those three things, I think that goes a long way in establishing a fruitful and a productive relationship with a patient and their families.
I would suspect that you also take into consideration the patient's health, their age, maybe test results, side effects, things like that?
Of course. So, we look at the medical record and with the advent, of course, of the electronic record and all the tests that we do, our consideration is quite complex. We have to look at all those factors, and the age, and comorbidities. It's rare that we would take one factor alone that would trump everything else. We usually have to integrate the information. The same is true when we manage myeloma patients and we're monitoring their protein levels and their response to treatment. I tell patients, they ask me, "What would you do? What's the magic number for this or that?"
I say, "It's a little bit like you're flying a Cessna plane and you have all these dials in your dashboard, and that's how we manage the situation is the integration of all of that information."
Right. Can you help us understand, Dr. Fonseca, how test results may affect treatment options?
Sure. Happy to do that. In myeloma, we are very fortunate in that we have, and it's not the topic for today, but we have the best biomarker that exists for any cancer. That is that we can measure the proteins that are associated with the growth of the cells. We have multiple tests that we can do. We do them in the blood and we do them in the urine. They're simple tests that have been done for decades now that allow us to monitor how a person is doing with regards to their disease. I use the following analogy. Myeloma cells live inside the bones, as I mentioned, in the bone marrow.
They don't come out into the blood. So, we cannot measure them. Indirectly, we can measure how many they are and how they are behaving by measuring this protein. I use an analogy of imagine you're walking in a street, and you see smoke coming out of a building. There are two things you can do. First is you diagnose that there is a fire inside the building, right? We see that with myeloma by measuring these abnormal proteins.
Then as a firefighting team comes on, you can gauge whether they're making progress or not by the amount of smoke that comes out. That's exactly what we do when we monitor myeloma. We monitor the M-Spike, the serum free light chain, the urinary proteins. That's how we make those determinations.
At the same time, we do that, we have to look indirectly at the rest of the body. We have to look at the kidney function. We have to look at the blood counts. We have to look at the hemoglobin and the red cell count because that can (A) start on the wrong foot because of the myeloma itself, but (B) can also suffer as a consequence of our treatment.
It is, again, that idea of having the multiple dials in the dashboard that allow us to reach our practice. We have to be adjusting. So, if we measure the proteins and we're doing great, but then at the same time we see we're suffering in blood counts, and we may need to adjust those as we provide supportive treatment. If we don't see the proteins go down, then that may mean we need to change to a different form of treatment or that the person is unfortunately a refractory or relapsing to something.
So, that's how we integrate the test results into our management.
What sort of questions should patients consider asking about their treatment plan?
I think it's important that patients understand a few things. They can be described in multiple ways. Number one is, of course, what? What is it that is being used? I think that includes a description of what to expect, the practicalities, the names of the medications, their side effect profile, and what to report when you use those medicines. I think that's very important because if you're empowered with that information, you're gonna be better off as you react for symptoms that may come along. I always tell patients when you have a cancer diagnosis, your self-awareness goes through the roof because we're gonna be paying attention to everything, every skin change, every pain we have.
So, I think having a bit of that proactive discussion becomes important as they think about the treatments that they want. I think the how-to on the practicalities are very important. The best where the nursing team and the pharmacists help us a lot too. Do you take the medicines at night? Do you take them with meals? Is there something that you shouldn't be mixing? How much time would it take for me to get a refill? It's different to get a medication from a specialty pharmacy versus your down-the-street Walgreens. So, all of those things are important that patients, again, participate in the understanding.
If not them, at least the caregivers that are a part of this team. I think it's important that patients ask also some brief descriptions of (A) the biology of the disease. If I have myeloma, what type of myeloma do I have? Does that matter as far as what treatments I'm going to be using? What treatment options may be available to me because of my specific subtype? We have subsets of myeloma that have options that are not available to others.
Also, I think it's important that patients also ask a sense from the physicians as to where they are. I'd like to describe this a little bit more. Sometimes, patients ask us specific questions about, am I in a complete response? Am I in a very good partial response? What is a PFS? Those terms work very well when we talk about clinical trials, but they don't necessarily describe in a great way the situation for an individual patient. I'd use a lot more objectives than I'd use technical terms when I describe where patients are. I say, "You have an excellent response. You have a very deep response."
Then I'd provide more details if they want. "Yes, you're MRD-negative at 10 to the -6." But sometimes I find that it's harder for patients to understand where they are if they completely focus on the staging system or the response criteria, etc. Because maybe a VGPR, a very good partial response, doesn't sound very good.
But then you can be in a very good partial response for 15 years and it doesn't matter. You my want to be in an MRD-negative status, but you still have a good outcome. That's why the general description of the status by a physician becomes important.
Do you think patients should get a second opinion consult with a specialist?
In general, my answer is going to be yes. This is not self-serving. I think myeloma has become so complex that trying to integrate at least once, or if not, in some infrequent basis, an opinion of a myeloma specialist becomes important. This is no one's fault. If you're a community oncologist somewhere where myeloma represents only a small fraction of your practice, I can guarantee you, you cannot stay on top of the literature. I cannot stay up with everything that goes on with myeloma, even though that's what I do 100% of the time.
I get an email every week with all the articles, all the publications, and I have to integrate that. I have to think, okay, does this matter or not? I go to the professional meetings. I see all the abstracts and I still feel like I'm missing out. How could you do that if that is only a small fraction of your practice? I'm sure that the same applies for other cancers, breast and colon. You can't move. You cannot uproot yourself and leave your community and your family, but I think there should be ways by which patients at least have an opinion from someone who has more expertise. Fortunately, there are many centers across the nation now that have that expertise for the management of myeloma.
Dr. Fonseca, we have a question from a newly diagnosed myeloma patient. Barbara says, "I am just about to begin my first myeloma treatment. What can I expect?"
Thank you, Barbara, for the question. I think if you start on treatment, first of all I hope they already went through a good description of what the treatments are, the frequency by which you're gonna have to go to the center, and also what are the toxicities to look out for.
One of the most common toxicities that we face and one of the most challenging parts of initial treatment is the use of steroids. So, we use dexamethasone as part of every single regimen we use for myeloma. I tell patients, "Dexamethasone is a simple drug at first glance, but it's oftentimes the most complicated part of treatment."
The human brain works at triple speed when you're on dexamethasone. So, it's hard to sometimes be able to sleep properly. People can become anxious and even the sweetest person in the world can become a little bit edgy on dexamethasone.
I always say Mother Teresa on dexamethasone would be an edgy person. Just be patient. Work with the team. Just know that on the other side of treatment there is a return to normal life.
Our goal as we embark on treatments and, for instance, is I see patients that are going to go through transplant, I tell them, "Our goal is you finish, you recover, and you go back to your life. You back to work. You go back to your family, your kids, your sports." That's really what we strive for when we treat patients with myeloma.
Yeah. Once on therapy, how is the disease monitored and how do you know if the treatment is working?
Well, fortunately, we use the same markers. Once a person is in therapy, we will be monitoring. We monitor at least on a monthly basis of those myeloma protein markers. Once a person reaches a great level of response, sometimes we complement that with an analysis of the bone marrow. Of course, it's more invasive, so we don't like to do a lot of them, but we do them as needed. As we go forward and monitor patients, we will be looking for signs that those proteins remain in a low level as stable as an indicator that the disease is under control.
Now, if I saw someone and then I start seeing that there's an increased concentration of those proteins or we see something else clinical, we might need to do a little bit of a regrouping and test again in great detail to determine if the person is experiencing regrowth and the disease is so-called relapsed.
Why is it so important for patients to speak up when it comes to symptoms or treatment side effects?
Well, that's a great question. If you don't speak about them, we don't know about them. It seems very obvious, but then we cannot make the proper adjustments. I'll give you a couple of examples. I already talked about dexamethasone, but a common drug we use is something called bortezomib. Bortezomib is a proteasome inhibitor.
That's a mouthful, but it's one of the key type of drugs we use. It's given as an injection under the skin. Not to be confused, by the way, with daratumumab. Faspro is the name of that medication, so not to be confused with that is bortezomib, which we have been using for many years.
Bortezomib has a potential toxicity that is called peripheral neuropathy. If patients have peripheral neuropathy, that can go from very mild where you have some numbness and tingling, to the more extreme cases that it's associated with pain, discomfort, even weakness and disability.
Well, if we don't know that's happening, then we can't react to it and we can't adjust doses or switch to something different altogether. You can imagine now we have more options, but in the old days, I always tell patients, "You might be tempted not to say anything about this because you might be thinking, boy, this is working. I don't want to interfere with my treatment. I can live with the peripheral neuropathy." But if it gets worse, despite the fact that the treatment is working, the person might have a very significant impingement on their quality of life.
More so now that we have so many alternatives, it's important not to get us into a path that we might reach a point of an irreversible chronic complication from treatment.
No, and that would be awful.
Before we end the program, Dr. Fonseca, have there been any recent developments in myeloma treatment in research that make you hopeful?
Absolutely. I would say that the one area of work that makes me most hopeful is what we're seeing with immunotherapy. We have seen that both as the ASH meeting, as well as the ASCO meeting in this year, where people are presenting updates with the various clinical trials with either bi-specific antibodies or CAR T cell therapy as a new avenue for the treatment of myeloma.
In fact, at the last ASH meeting, we had 14 presentations of different compounds or different constructs that are active. I think the future is bright in that regard. We're seeing their application right now. A lot of these updates have also been made as ASCO.
We're seeing the update of the treatment of treatments with fairly advanced and aggressive disease where we can still show very significant responses. I participate in some of these trials. I can tell you in my institution, using some of the bi-specifics, I see patients who have previously exhausted all of their options and now are MRD negative at 10 to the -6.
If we're seeing that in the very advanced disease, I cannot wait to see what happens when we start using these treatments in either early relapse and why not in the near future as frontline part of our therapy? I think to me, that whole field of T-cell engagers, where there's bi-specifics or the CAR T cells remains one of the most exciting areas for future research.
How can patients stay up to date on information like this?
I think what we alluded to before is very important to work with groups like yours and other patient support organizations that can keep them up to date. I think they're doing a very good job at also providing updates post some of the large meetings. I know there's a lot of patients out there that are very sophisticated that will even join the medical meetings. That happens with some frequency; that they want to learn, and patients that go and ask me details about the statistics of the trial. That's a whole spectrum, right?
But at the minimum, I would say a strong connection with a support group, or a patient support organization becomes an imperative as you deal with this. Also, that would help you because with this whole concept of the information not always being complete and truthful, that can be scary as well, too.
If someone goes and just looks for, I would say even some of the resources that are out there in a textbook today, just keep in mind that textbook was probably written five years ago, and it represents the studies of about 10 or 15 years ago. How that relates to you, it's very distant. So, it is because of this continuous process of research that we know better what's going on at the present time.
Dr. Fonseca, thank you so much for taking the time to join us today.
Oh, it's my pleasure. Thank you for the opportunity.
And thank you to all of our partners. To learn more about myeloma, and to access tools to help you become a proactive patient, visit powerfulpatients.org. I'm Katherine Banwell. Thanks for joining us.
https://powerfulpatients.org/pen/wp-content/uploads/How-to-Play-an-Active-Role-in-Your-Myeloma-Treatment-and-Care-Decisions-1.png 600 600 Kara Rayburn https://www.powerfulpatients.org/pen/wp-content/uploads/New-Logo-300x126.png Kara Rayburn2021-06-29 13:11:002022-01-10 17:17:47How to Play an Active Role in Your Myeloma Treatment and Care Decisions
Which CLL Treatment Is Right for You? What You Need to Know
May 4, 2021 /in Chronic Lymphocytic Leukemia, CLL Newly Diagnosed, CLL Programs, CLL Treatments and Clinical Trials, CLL Videos ND, CLL Videos TC, INSIST! CLL, Treatment Decisions /by Kara Rayburn
Which CLL Treatment Is Right for You? What You Need to Know from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.
What do you need to know before deciding which treatment is best for YOUR CLL? Dr. Lindsey Roeker discusses the role of key CLL tests, including biomarker testing, reviews emerging research, and provides tips for partnering with your care team to advocate for the best care.
See More From INSIST! CLL
An Overview of CLL Treatment Types
What Should CLL Patients Know About Clinical Trial Treatment Options?
What Are the Goals of CLL Treatment?
Hello, and welcome. I'm Katherine Banwell, your host for today's program. Today we're going to discuss how to access the most personalized CLL treatment for your individual disease, and why it's essential to insist on key testing. Before we meet our guest, let's review a few important details. The reminder email you received about this program contains a link to program materials. If you haven't already, click that link to access information, to follow along during the webinar.
At the end of this program, you'll receive a link to a program survey. Please take a moment to provide feedback about your experience today, in order to help us plan future webinars. And finally, before we get into the discussion, please remember that this program is not a substitute for seeking medical advice. Please refer to your healthcare team about what might be best for you. Joining me today is Dr. Lindsay Roeker. Dr. Roker, thank you so much for joining us. Would you introduce yourself?
Dr. Roeker:
Absolutely. So, my name is Lindsey Roeker, and I am a member of the CLL program at Memorial Sloan-Kettering Cancer Center in New York City.
Excellent, thank you. Let's start at the beginning. How is CLL diagnosed?
Absolutely. So, for most patients, CLL is diagnosed after a routine blood test shows a high white blood cell count. That's kinda the most common way that we find people entering into our clinic. Other things that people can notice is they have lumps or bumps that they've felt in their neck or under their armpits. Those are some other symptoms that can lead to the diagnosis, but often once a patient finds that their white blood cell count is high, some additional testing is done, and the diagnosis of CLL is made.
What are some common symptoms of CLL? You mentioned the lumps and bumps.
Yeah. So, often in early stages, the lumps and bumps in the neck are the most common that people recognize, but fevers or chills, night sweats, where patients are waking up drenched, having to change their pajamas, or weight loss without trying, are some other symptoms that can raise some alarm bells and make people start looking for something.
And CLL can be a diagnosis that can be found through that, as well.
What is watch and wait?
So, after diagnosis, about two-thirds of patients enter this period of watch and wait, and what that means is we have good data to say that treating CLL before it's causing symptoms doesn't help people live better or live longer. And for that reason, we use the approach of watch and wait, and what that really means is you see your doctor a few times a year. I see people every three to four months. And you have your labs checked, have a physical exam, and through that process, just ensure that there are no symptoms that the CLL is causing that warrant therapy.
That's very helpful. Thank you for that. Now, what tests are necessary to help understand a patient-specific disease, both at diagnosis and prior to treatment?
So, a diagnosis flow cytometry is the first test done, and what that means is, you take all of your white blood cells in your blood, and you run them through a fancy machine that puts them into buckets. So, you have a bucket of your normal neutrophils, a bucket of your normal lymphocytes, and then you find this bucket of cells that look somewhat unusual. And those have a specific look, if you will, and if they look like CLL cells, that's how we make the diagnosis.
As you start reading, you'll find that people talk about monoclonal B-cell lymphocytosis, which is MVL, CLL, and SLL, and a lot of times, it's confusing because you start reading, and there are all of these – kind of lingo around it. So, what we're looking for with flow cytometry is how many cells are in the peripheral blood? If it's fewer than 5,000 per microliter – so, your doctor will talk to you; they'll either say five or 5,000, depending on what units they're using.
If it's lower than that, and you don't have any lumps or bumps or lymphadenopathy, meaning enlarged lymph nodes, that's when we make the diagnosis of monoclonal B-cell lymphocytosis.
So, that's kind of a pre-cancer diagnosis. Then, CLL, the diagnosis, is made in any patient who has greater than 5,000 cells per microliter, or five, if you're using that unit, and that's when the diagnosis of CLL is made. If people have lymph nodes that are enlarged, and there are CLL or SLL cells inside of them, but not a lot of involvement in the blood, that's when we make the diagnosis of SLL, which is small lymphocytic lymphoma. So, CLL and SLL are really the same disease; it's just where they manifest, primarily. So, whether it's mostly in the blood, that's CLL, or mostly in the lymph nodes, and that's SLL.
Nope. So, that's the flow cytometry test, and that's kind of the test that leads to the diagnosis.
Got it. What about FISH and TP53 mutation?
So, at diagnosis, I often do this testing. Depending on which provider you go to, you may do it at diagnosis or closer to the time of needing treatment. But FISH is basically a test that looks for big changes in the chromosomes. So, if you remember back to high school biology and you see all of those chromosomes laid out, what FISH is looking for is big changes in those chromosomes. So, is there an entire arm of one of the chromosomes missing? And that's what FISH does.
There's also something called karyotyping, or in some institutions, they use something called SNP array. These are more refined tests that look for additional changes in the DNA. So, FISH is kind of a targeted look at a few different chromosomes, whereas karyotype or SNP array looks at all of the chromosomes. Then, there is TP53 mutational testing, and that is done through a bunch of different testing, often next-generation sequencing is what we use.
And we basically use a fancy spellcheck to see if there's any misspellings, if you will, in TP53.
And TP53 is a gene that we use. It's called the guardian of the genome. So, its job is basically to make sure that our cells are reproducing. They keep all the genes in working order. If TP53 is missing or misspelled, it doesn't work as well, and that's when people can get more issues with their CLL. It tends to be CLL that behaves a little more aggressively.
What about IGHV mutation status?
So, IGHV mutation status is a really important feature because it really is, of all of the things, what helps us understand the best way to go about therapy. And IGHV mutational status is basically a signature of the CLL that helps you understand how mature or immature the CLL cells are.
In general, mature cells tend to behave a little bit more predictively, and in ways that behave a bit better with therapy. So, the more mature cells are actually mutated IGHV, and I know that's backward, because usually we think of mutated as being back. But in this case, mutated is actually those cells that are a bit more mature, and that just has to do with how white blood cells develop in our body. If it's IGHV-unmutated, those tend to be the more immature cells that can behave a little more erratically.
Which tests need to be repeated over time?
So, IGHV mutational status never changes, so that one does not need to be repeated. TP53 mutational status, FISH, and karyotype or SNP array, are ones that I tend to repeat before we start any therapy. So, at the time that you're going to start your frontline therapy, and then if you have the disease come back and need to be treated again, I usually repeat those tests because those can change over time.
So, that's both FISH, karyotype or SNP array, and the TP53 mutational testing.
Okay. So, it sounds like it's important for patients to make sure they've had this testing. What do the test results reveal about a patient's prognosis?
So, IGHV mutational status, like I said, really helps us understand how to approach therapy. In general, CLL is a disease that we are increasingly managing with targeted medicines, so drugs that really manipulate the cell biology to either stop the growth of cells or kill the cells so that they pop open. And that has been a trend that has taken place over the last six or seven years, and definitely has revolutionized the treatment of CLL. There is still a small minority of patients, the patients who have IGHV-mutated disease, and are younger, and have fewer other medical problems, that can still be good candidates for chemotherapy.
And the reason that I say that is because in general, chemotherapy for those young, mutated patients cures a subset of patients, so when we look at long-term studies of FCR, which is a combination of chemo and immunotherapy, there are a subset of patients who have a really long period where their disease doesn't come back, to the point that we call them cured or functionally cured. That's obviously a word that has a lot of emotional charge around it, and it's hard because there's always the possibility of the disease coming back in the future.
But because of those long-term outcomes, we know that there's some patients that can really have long-term benefit from chemoimmunotherapy.
For IGHV-unmutated patients, and especially for patients with TP53 mutations or deletion of 17p, chemoimmunotherapy really is not the right answer, with all of the medications that we have available to us now.
We have an audience question. Mike wants to know, "What does it mean to have high-risk CLL?"
So, great question, and the interesting thing is that I think the answer to that question is evolving. So, deletion of 17p, deletion of 11q, and TP53 mutation have historically been markers of more aggressive disease or unfavorable CLL. In the era where we only had chemo and immunotherapy, we know that patients had less great outcomes. We know that the treatments tended to not work as well, and patients had disease that tended to come back faster, and things like that.
That's all evolving in the era of targeted agents. We have some indication that probably patients who have more aggressive underlying disease biology, meaning disease that's going to behave less well, kind of regardless of what we treat it with, certainly may derive less benefit, meaning that the treatment will work for less long. That being said, these treatments are still really effective for our patients who have traditionally high-risk disease. So, I think it still remains to be seen, in terms of long-term outcomes and what to expect for patients that have these traditionally high-risk characteristics.
So, now that we understand how these tests affect prognosis, let's discuss how they can affect treatment options. Let's run through a few potential results so we can understand how you might approach each patient type. If someone has deletion 17p, what is the approach?
So, there are two totally reasonable frontline treatment options.
So, BTK inhibitors, which are – the current approved ones are ibrutinib and acalabrutinib, are completely a reasonable approach in the frontline setting, meaning the first treatment that someone gets, and those are pills that you take daily. For ibrutinib, it's once a day. For acalabrutinib, it's twice a day, for as long as they're working. And the idea is, with this approach, you keep on those medicines, and they keep the disease suppressed. So, that's the first option.
The second totally reasonable option is a combination of venetoclax and obinutuzumab. So, venetoclax is a pill and obinutuzumab is an IV medicine, and the way that this was studied was a total of one year of therapy. So, from the time you start until you're done with all of your treatments, that's a one-year course. And the drugs have different side effect profiles, and depending on other medical problems, patient preference about, let's just take a pill and that's easy, versus the combination of pill and IV medicines, either can be a completely reasonable choice.
It just depends a lot on patient and doctor preference.
What about the TP53 mutation?
So, both of those treatment options seem to work very well for TP53-mutated patients. We had that discussion about the possibility of chemoimmunotherapy for a small minority of patients, and for patients with a TP53 mutation, using chemoimmunotherapy up front is probably not the correct answer. It's better to go with one of the targeted drug approaches.
You mentioned, Dr. Roeker, the IGHV mutated and unmutated. How would you approach each patient type, if a patient is IGHV unmutated?
So, IGHV-unmutated is the same discussion. Chemoimmunotherapy is probably not going to provide a durable, meaning it's not going to last for a long time. We're not going to achieve that potential cure. So, for those patients, either the BTK inhibitor approach, or the venetoclax/Obinutuzumab approach is completely a reasonable one to take.
And if they're IGHV-mutated?
IGHV-mutated patients who are young and don't have a lot of other medical problems, that's when we add in the third option of chemoimmunotherapy. For many patients, it's not wrong to choose either a BTK inhibitor or venetoclax/Obinutuzumab, but it does add in that third potential option of chemoimmunotherapy.
Are there other markers that patients should know about?
I think those are the big ones.
So, TP53 mutation status, FISH, and karyotype kind of gets you most of them. Some centers do additional next-generation sequencing of other genes that have been associated with higher-risk disease, though really understanding how to interpret those results still remains somewhat unclear, and that's still an area of research that people are doing, to really understand what those other mutations really mean for people.
What about the impact of testing, overall? Why is it so important?
So, as we've moved from a disease that was really only treated with chemoimmunotherapy, to one that has targeted drugs available, knowing your IGHV mutational status really impacts what your frontline treatment options are. That's the major therapy-defining risk factor. The other mutations help you know what to expect. So, for patients who have deletion of 17p or TP53 mutation, it's possible that the treatments are going to, overall, work for a shorter period of time.
All that being said, every person is an individual, and it's hard to predict exactly how long someone's going to respond, from an individual basis. So, what I tell my patients is, "I could tell you what 100 of people with exactly your same disease would do, on average, but I can't tell you exactly what's going to happen for you. And that's a journey that we're going to take together and really understand over time."
These are really great points, Dr. Roeker. Now, we've talked about this a little bit. What are other important factors to consider, like a patient's age, that can help them access the best treatment for their CLL?
So, age is important. Other medical problems is actually a very important consideration.
So, these medications have different side effect profiles and behave differently in different people. So, the BTK inhibitors, specifically ibrutinib is the one that we have the most data on, has cardiovascular side effects, so it can cause atrial fibrillation. It can cause high blood pressure. So, for patients who have preexisting heart disease, or preexisting atrial fibrillation that has been hard to control, or blood pressure that has been hard to control, for those people, I think adding in a BTK inhibitor can be a bit more of a higher risk situation than in somebody without those preexisting problems.
Venetoclax is a pill that causes the cell to burst open rapidly, and it kills cells very quickly. Because of that, the major side effect is called tumor lysis syndrome, and tumor lysis syndrome is basically the cell opens up and all of the salt inside of it goes into the bloodstream.
And that salt can actually be really hard on the kidneys. So, for people who have kidney problems, venetoclax can be somewhat more challenging to use and just requires a higher level of vigilance. So, for patients who have preexisting kidney disease or the idea of a lot of monitoring and things like that, is more challenging. Then maybe the BTK inhibitors are a better choice.
How do you monitor whether a treatment is working?
So, a lot of it has to do with the CBC, so your normal blood count, and what we're looking for is improvement in hemoglobin and improvement or normalization of platelet count. And for many people, those, either anemia or low platelets, are the symptoms that drive people to be treated in the first place, so we're looking for those parameters to get better.
With a lot of people with CLL, totally understandably, because it's the number that's the most abnormal, really focused on white blood cell count. 100% understandable.
I always tell people that that's actually the part of the CBC that I care least about, and the reason is that, for patients on BTK inhibitors, we expect to see the white blood count actually get higher before it gets less high. That's actually just a sign that the drug is working and it's pulling CLL cells from the lymph nodes into the bloodstream. So, that's actually a good sign that it's working, and that lymphocyte count, at least in the beginning, isn't a great marker of how well the drug is working.
The other thing that's important is the physical exam, so looking for whether any lymph nodes that were enlarged have normalized or gone away, and also feeling the sides of the spleen, because the spleen can become enlarged with CLL, and it's important to make sure that's normalizing, as well.
And then the last piece is talking to people, so making sure that if they were having fatigue, or fevers, or night sweats before they started treatment, to make sure that those symptoms have gone away. And that's kind of the three things that I use. I use the blood counts, the physical exam, and the interview with a patient to really understand how their disease is responding.
Dr. Roeker, why is it important for patients to speak up if they're experiencing side effects? I know that they sometimes feel like they're bothering their healthcare team.
Thank you for that question, because it's really important point. Side effects are easiest to manage when you catch them early. So, when people have, for instance, muscle pain or joint aches, I have lots of tricks up my sleeve to help people, but I need to know about it. So, if people don't tell me until they have joint pain that's so bad that they're not able to exercise or not able to get out of bed easily in the morning, that's taking it – it's gone on for a while at that point, and it's pretty far down the line.
First of all, you wouldn't have had to suffer for that long because we have ways of fixing it, and second, it's always harder to fix a problem once it's further down the line than earlier on. So, I talk to people about what side effects they might experience and what to expect, and then we talk about different management strategies to really nip it early so that we're not dealing with a really huge problem down the line.
We have a question from our audience. Maria asks, "I just found out that I will need to undergo treatment again. I was previously treated with FCR. Does that impact my options now, going forward?"
Great question. So, FCR was a really common treatment strategy before we had all of the drugs that we have available now. We have good data to say that both BTK inhibitors and venetoclax-based treatments work after chemoimmunotherapy. In fact, those were the patients in whom these drugs were really initially studied, so we actually know better in that group of patients how they're going to work, than in the patients who have never been treated with them, in terms of the amount of data and the long-term follow-up that we have.
So, most likely, your provider will still talk to you about kind of the two therapeutic option being a BTK inhibitor-based approach versus a venetoclax-based approach, and either are completely appropriate in that setting.
We have another question from our audience. Eileen is currently in active treatment for her CLL, and she wants to know, "Is the COVID-19 vaccine safe for her?"
Great question. So, here is my take on COVID vaccines. We have great data on the safety of these vaccines, so the risk of a life-threatening allergic reaction is very, very low, less than one in a thousand. We know that it can cause some irritation at the injection site, so pain in your arm. We know that it can cause some kinda flu-like, blah symptoms for a couple of days, totally fine to take ibuprofen and kinda get yourself through that period.
But from a safety perspective, I don't have concerns about these vaccines. There's a lot of social media coverage on long-term implications that are either not based on data, at all, and just speculation, and people who are trying to raise alarm, or people who are really bringing up bad things that are happening to people really far out from the vaccine. And I think it's really hard to attribute that to the vaccine. Obviously, any time there is a new technology, there's the possibility of things happening, and we're going to know more with time, but I think, overall, from a scientific perspective, there is no data that makes me worried about the safety of this vaccine.
The efficacy question, I think, is more of an open question, and the reason I say that is two-fold. The first is, we know that patients with CLL who get other vaccines, some get 100% coverage, some get zero percent coverage, and some are somewhere in between.
And it's hard to predict who is going to fall where. So, that's the first piece. The second piece is, we've looked at patients who had CLL and got COVID, and we saw if they made antibodies, which is kind of a marker of an immune response, and it's not consistent that every patient who got COVID makes antibodies.
So, the combination of those two pieces of data makes me question exactly how well they're going to work. So, what I'm telling my patients is, "Definitely go ahead and get it. I think it's safe. And then pretend that you didn't get it." So, I know that's hard advice to hear, but continue wearing a mask, continue social distancing, and continue to wash your hands. And then, every interaction you have is a risk-benefit discussion or decision. So, that's different for every person, but in general, I recommend that people continue being cautious.
Once the whole population around you is vaccinated and we have less virus circulating in the community, that's when it's going to be substantially safer. So, definitely, I recommend that people get it, regardless of whether you are on watch and wait, getting treatment, have just finished treatment, whatever it is, but I do think there's reason to be cautious even after getting vaccinated.
Are there symptoms or issues CLL patients should be looking out for, post-vaccine?
Not particularly, beyond what people are getting in kind of the general population. If you're having a lot of those kind of flu-like symptoms, just talk to your provider to make sure that ibuprofen is safe, because if your platelets are really low, that can cause bleeding. But Tylenol is typically pretty safe, and talk to your doctor about which medicines are kinda best for you to take in that situation, but no particular concerns in patients with CLL.
Okay. Thank you for the clarification. As I mentioned at the start of this program, patients should insist on essential CLL testing. As we conclude, I think it's important to point out that some patients may not know if they've received these important tests, so how can they take action?
So, the next time you're at your doctor, ask, "I just want to know more about the prognosis of my CLL, and can we talk through the genetic markers of my disease, to help me understand what to expect?" That's kind of code for, "Let's go through all of these test results," and it also – if you have a provider who doesn't routinely test them at diagnosis, and for instance, just tests before treatment, they can also kind of give you their sense of when they do the testing, so you know what to expect. And I think that's an important discussion to have with your provider, for sure.
Are there key questions that patients should ask their physicians?
I'm always impressed with the questions that people come up with. I think one of the best is, what should I expect, based on what we're doing now? It's always a hard question to answer because, obviously, for any patient, it's so individualized, but I think understanding what to expect, as a general sense, is a good way to approach both treatment and prognosis, and all of those kinds of things.
I'd like to close by asking about developments in CLL research and treatment. What's new that you feel patients should know about?
So, there are a lot of exciting drugs coming up in CLL. We have the BTK inhibitors, ibrutinib and acalabrutinib approved. We have more BTK inhibitors with different side effect profiles that are in development.
And there's also a new class of drugs called noncovalent BTK inhibitors, which seem to work well, even when prior BTK inhibitors have stopped working. So, that's a really exciting development. There is also just lots of studies about how we combine drugs to maximize efficacy while minimizing side effects, and all of these studies that are underway are really looking at refining how we approach treatment so that we can treat people very effectively but also minimize their side effects.
And as we have more results available, the treatment paradigm for CLL is going to continue to shift and evolve, and I think there are a lot of exciting things coming, and there's definitely a lot of reason to be hopeful, that the future of CLL is even brighter than the present.
It all sounds very promising, Dr. Roeker. Thank you so much for joining us today.
Thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate it.
And thank you to all of our partners. If you would like to watch this webinar again, there will be a replay available soon. You'll receive an email when it's ready. And don't forget to take the survey, immediately following this webinar. It will help us as we plan future programs. To learn more about CLL and to access tools to help you become a proactive patient, visit powerfulpatients.org. I'm Katherine Banwell. Thanks for joining us.
https://powerfulpatients.org/pen/wp-content/uploads/Which-CLL-Treatment-Is-Right-for-You-What-You-Need-to-Know-1.png 600 600 Kara Rayburn https://www.powerfulpatients.org/pen/wp-content/uploads/New-Logo-300x126.png Kara Rayburn2021-05-04 14:33:142021-05-04 14:38:42Which CLL Treatment Is Right for You? What You Need to Know
March 31, 2021 /in INSIST! Myeloma, MM Insist Testing, MM Newly Diagnosed, MM Programs, MM Testing, MM Videos ND, MM Videos T, Multiple Myeloma /by Kara Rayburn
What Standard Testing Follows a Myeloma Diagnosis? from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.
What tests will you have following a myeloma diagnosis? Are there additional tests you should request? Dr. Joshua Richter provides an overview of key testing for myeloma and why each test is necessary.
Dr. Joshua Richter is director of Multiple Myeloma at the Blavatnik Family – Chelsea Medical Center at Mount Sinai. He also serves as Assistant Professor of Medicine in The Tisch Cancer Institute, Division of Hematology and Medical Oncology. Learn more about Dr. Richter, here.
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Dr. Richter:
So, the standard testing that follows a myeloma diagnosis is multifaceted. So, the first one is blood work. And we draw a lot of blood tests to look at the bad protein that the cancer cells make. So, we send tests like a protein electrophoresis which tells us how high that bad protein is. We send immunofixation. That test tells us what type of bad protein it is. You'll hear names like IgG kappa and IgA lambda.
These are the different types of bad proteins made by myeloma cells. Oftentimes, we'll send urine tests to find out how much of that bad protein that was in the blood is coming out in the urine. We will, typically, do a bone marrow biopsy. It's a test where we put a needle into the back of the hip bone to look at the marrow itself. And we'll use that marrow to figure out how much myeloma there is, any other characteristics like the genetic changes in those cells.
The other big thing is imaging. So, the classic imaging that we do with myeloma is something called a skeletal survey. It's, basically, a listing of X-rays from head to toe. But nowadays, we have newer techniques, things like whole body low-dose CAT scans, something called a PET-CT scan, and MRI scans. And your care team may have to figure out which one is right for you at what given time.
Mm-hmm. Are there additional tests that patients should ask for?
Absolutely. One of the most important things from myeloma has to do with the genetic risk stratification.
So, for almost all cancers, the staging has a very big impact. And people will often think of cancer in stages I, II, III, and IV, and they're managed very differently depending upon what stage it is. Myeloma has three stages, stage I, II, and III. But the most important thing is, actually, beyond the staging is what's called the cytogenetics risk stratification. So, it's really important when the bone marrow is sent to be sure that it is sent for, kind of, advanced techniques. Because you really want that snapshot of exactly what the genetic profile is, because that gives us information of A) how to treat, and B) prognostic, you know, who will tend to do better or worse based on this information. And even though that may not tell us which drugs to use, specifically, it may say, should we do something like a transplant or not? Should we consider a clinical trial early or not?
I see. How do test results affect treatment choices?
So, test results can affect treatment choices in a number of ways. Probably, the most common one is thinking about the routine blood tests like your CBC or complete blood count and your chemistry, which looks at things like your kidney function. Some drugs tend to have more toxicity to the blood counts. So, if your blood counts are very low, we may choose drugs that don't lower the blood counts very much.
Kidney function which we, usually, measure by something called the creatinine. Creatinine is made by the muscles and cleared out by the kidneys. So, if your kidneys aren't working very well, you don't pee out creatinine, and that creatinine level will rise in the blood. If your creatinine level is high, we may choose certain drugs that don't affect the kidneys or not metabolized or broken down by the kidneys.
The genetic studies that we use – we're not quite at this base yet where we can say, if you have this genetic abnormality in your myeloma, we should use this drug except there's some really great data on the cutting edge about a drug called venetoclax.
Venetoclax is a pill that's used to treat other diseases like lymphoma and leukemia. And it turns out that people who have what's called a translocation (11:14) which means part of the 11th chromosome and part of the 14th chromosome in the cancer cells swap material.
Those people respond amazingly well to venetoclax. So, we're starting to have what we would call precision medicine where we find your genetic abnormalities, not that you got from your parents or passed to your kids, but the genetics inside the tumor cells to tell us which treatments will work best for you.
https://powerfulpatients.org/pen/wp-content/uploads/What-Standard-Testing-Follows-a-Myeloma-Diagnosis_-1.png 600 600 Kara Rayburn https://www.powerfulpatients.org/pen/wp-content/uploads/New-Logo-300x126.png Kara Rayburn2021-03-31 08:30:452021-03-31 09:10:18What Standard Testing Follows a Myeloma Diagnosis?
How to Play an Active Role in Your CLL Treatment Decisions
March 30, 2021 /in Chronic Lymphocytic Leukemia, CLL Engage, CLL Engage Treatment, CLL Newly Diagnosed, CLL Programs, CLL Treatments and Clinical Trials, CLL Videos ND, CLL Videos TC, Patient Empowerment, PEN Blog /by Kara Rayburn
How to Play an Active Role in Your CLL Treatment Decisions from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.
How can you partner with your healthcare team to feel confident in your CLL decisions? In this webinar replay, Dr. Matthew Davids discusses CLL treatment approaches, developing research and tools for partnering with your healthcare team. Dr. Matthew Davids is the Director of Clinical Research in the Division of Lymphoma at Dana-Farber Cancer Institute.
See More from Engage CLL
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Which CLL Treatment Approach Could be Right for You?
Partnering With Your Doctor on CLL Treatment Decisions
Hello and welcome. I'm Katherine Banwell, your host for today's program. Today we're going to explore the factors that guide CLL treatment decisions, including your role in making those decisions. Before we meet our guest, let's review a few important details. The reminder email you received about this program contains a link to program materials. If you haven't already, click that link to access information to follow along during the webinar. And at the end of this program, you will receive a link to a program survey. This will allow you to provide feedback about your experience today, and it will help us plan future webinars.
Finally, before we get into the discussion, please remember that this is not a substitute for seeking medical advice. Refer to your own healthcare team. All right, let's meet our guest today. Joining me is Dr. Matthew Davids. Dr. Davids, would you please introduce yourself?
Dr. Davids:
Hi, Katherine. Thanks so much for having me. It's great to be with everyone today. I'm Matt Davids. I'm a CLL-focused physician based at Dana Farber Cancer Institute in Boston, and I'm also an associate professor of medicine at Harvard Medical School. And I get to wear many hats here. First and foremost, I take care of patients, particularly patients with CLL, but I also have some administrative roles. I direct our clinical research program in the lymphoma division. I also run a research laboratory focused on CLL and other lymphoid cancers, and I run about a dozen clinical trials mostly focused on developing new treatment options for patients with CLL.
Wow. Sounds like you're a busy guy. I'm glad you have the time to join us today.
Let's start with a question that's on the mind of many of our audience members. Is the COVID-19 vaccine safe for CLL patients?
Very timely question. The simple answer is yes. There are now actually three different vaccines that have been granted emergency use authorization by the FDA.
And I would say that so far, we've seen clinical trial evidence suggesting these are very safe vaccines in the general population.
Our own experience with our own CLL patients so far has also suggested safety, so I think it's very important that our CLL patients get vaccinated as soon as they can. I think the bigger concern more than safety is on the efficacy side of the vaccine, meaning how effective are these vaccines going to be for CLL patients? That's not something that we know yet from the larger clinical trials that have been done. So, those numbers you see quoted, 95 percent protective, that's in the general populations.
We do worry a bit based on our experience with other vaccines in CLL patients that they may not be quite as effective, but we don't know that yet. Fortunately, that's something that we're studying now, both at our center and in some nationwide efforts, to look for example at the antibody production that CLL patients can make before and after vaccination. I'm hopeful that over the next few months we'll start to learn about how effective these vaccines are specifically for CLL patients.
We certainly expect they will have some benefit, so that's why we recommend vaccination for all of our CLL patients. But once patients are vaccinated, it doesn't give them a free pass to then take their masks off and go back to normal life. Particularly CLL patients I think need to be careful even after vaccination to continue to do social distancing, hand hygiene, and all these things.
Is there one type of vaccine that's more suited for CLL patients?
Nope. As far as we can tell, all three of the approved vaccines so far are safe and should have some good effects for CLL patients.
There's no benefit of one versus the others, so the best one to get is the one that's in your muscle and injected. Whatever you can get access to, that's the best one for you.
Dr. Davids, have there been any recent developments in CLL treatment and research that patients should know about?
Yeah. We could spend a few hours on this, but I'll try to summarize it. There's a lot of exciting developments in the field. and I think we're going to get into some of the specific treatments in a few minutes, but I would say at a high level obviously, over the last decade the entire field of CLL treatment has been transformed. Whereas we only had chemotherapy-based approaches before, now we have a whole number of different drugs that we call novel agents. And the reason why they're novel is that they target the CLL cells, but they spare the other cells in the body, so there's less collateral damage there. What that means is that they have fewer side effects, and they're more effective, so it's really a win-win situation for patients.
There's kind of been two main approaches for this.
One is to start a novel agent drug and to continue it for as long as it's helping, which fortunately for most patients is a long time, many years. And then, a newer approach is actually to do what's called time-limited therapy where you start usually at least a couple of these different novel drugs together but hopefully achieve what we call a very deep remission, meaning excellent shrinkage of lymph nodes and improvement of blood counts and bone marrow disease. And by getting these very deep remissions the idea is we can do a finite period of treatment, whether it's one year or two years, it kind of depends on the regimen. And then, stop therapy and hope that patients can then enjoy many years of remission while off therapy, which can be nice in terms of reducing side effects and costs and all these other things.
So, those are the biggest developments in the field right now, the continuous novel agent therapy and time-limited novel agent therapy. And a lot of the clinical trials that are getting off the ground now are starting to compare these two strategies to figure out really what's the optimal way to treat CLL patients.
How can patients stay up-do-date on developments like these?
It's definitely challenging. It's challenging even for us who are in the field to keep up with things on the academic side. I think for patients, seeking out patient-friendly sources of information on the web are helpful, but sometimes it can be hard to know what's reliable information on the web. So websites like this and programs like this I think can be very helpful. Another resource that a lot of my patients find helpful is the CLL Society, so www.cllsociety.org. Brian Koffman really curates a lot of the new developments in the field on that website nicely. He interviews a lot of different CLL experts in this short format that can be very digestible for patients. Patient Power is another great website. So, there are a bunch of them out there, and I think those can be a great resource for our patients.
When a person is diagnosed with CLL they have a whole healthcare team. Who's typically on that team?
It's definitely a multidisciplinary team.
Usually there's an oncologist-hematologist who's leading the team as a physician, but there's a very large team of other people who are involved, whether it's an advanced practice person such as a nurse practitioner or a physician's assistant. They're often very closely involved with the day-to-day patient care. There's nurse navigators in some places that can help with getting access to these novel agents and with looking into clinical trial opportunities. There's pharmacy folks who are very helpful sometimes in checking in on side effects, and advising on dosing, and so forth.
That's more on the provider side of things. But, of course, the care team really includes the caregivers for the patient, whether it's family members or friends, who are really a crucial part of this. The field is very complicated, and one of the challenges with COVID recently is that I've always invited family members and friends to come to visits with patients, because I do think it's helpful to have many people listening. And that's been hard because we've had to restrict visitors usually to either no visitors or one visitor because of COVID precautions.
Even if that's the case, you can still have people dial in by phone or use technologies like FaceTime to try to have them there with you, because I think having that extra set of ears can be helpful as you hear all this information coming at you from your oncologist.
Yeah, absolutely. So, it really does sound like it's a whole team approach. We have a question from the audience. Linda writes, "I've heard that CLL doesn't need to be treated right away. Is that true?"
That is true for the majority of CLL patients, and it's actually a very counterintuitive thing. We're conditioned that if you have cancer that it's important to be proactive and get rid of it as quickly as possible, the sooner the better, and that is actually not the case in CLL. And we didn't just take a guess that that's the best approach. This is actually something that's been studied in clinical trials. There were several clinical trials launched in the '70s and '80s looking at an early intervention strategy using a chemotherapy-based approach to see if treating at the time of diagnosis would be better than waiting until patients developed more significant symptoms.
And all of those studies did not show a benefit to early intervention.
Now, more recently those studies have been challenged as somewhat out of date, which is a fair criticism because they used an older chemotherapy drug. And so, there is a newer study now going on in Europe that is looking at early intervention with the drug ibrutinib, which is one of our novel agents for CLL, looking to see if early intervention with ibrutinib, particularly for patients who have a higher risk form of CLL, may be beneficial.
But we have seen some data now already presented from this study that do not show any improvement in how long the patients live by treating with ibrutinib early, and we do see some of the typical side effects that we're accustomed to seeing with ibrutinib. So, even with the newer data that we're seeing, we still do not recommend early intervention for patients with CLL.
I've heard this term "watch and wait." What does that mean?
Yeah, it's not the best term because it's very passive. That refers to this observation strategy. I like to think of it more as "active surveillance." It seems more proactive because you're doing something about it.
You're really checking the blood counts, you're getting your physical exam, you're checking in on symptoms, these sorts of things, and really keeping a close eye on the disease. And that's the approach that we like to take with our patients to really keep them engaged, making sure they're staying up-to-date on their screenings for other cancers, making sure they're getting vaccinations, these sorts of things are all the things we do with active surveillance.
How is someone monitored during this watch-and-wait period?
It varies depending on individual patients. We've alluded to the fact that there's different genetic subgroups of CLL already, so there are some patients that have higher-risk disease. The example of that usually is deletion 17p that people may have heard of on the FISH test. For those patients I usually am seeing them every three months or so, physical exam, checking on their history, checking their bloodwork. But there's quite a few CLL patients who have lower-risk disease. If they have for example mutated IGHV, if they do not have the 17p for example, those patients may be able to be seen once every six months or so with a similar setup.
I don't routinely get CAT scans on a regular basis for most patients. Most patients don't need bone marrow biopsy tests unless they're starting treatment. So, it's mostly it's exam, talking to patients, and checking the bloodwork.
Okay. So, how does CLL progress? When do you know when it's time to treat?
The stages of CLL involve the progression of the disease. When we first meet patients, often they only have cells circulating in the blood, and that's called stage 0 disease. It's one of the few cancers where there's actually a Stage 0 before even Stage I, and the reason for that is that many patients can go for years on Stage 0 disease. But as the burden of the CLL cells begin to accumulate in the body they can start to collect in their lymph nodes, and the lymph nodes can start to swell up whether it's in the neck or the armpits or elsewhere. That's stage I disease.
They can accumulate in the spleen, which is an organ in the abdomen. It's kind of a big filter for your bloodstream, and as the filter traps more of these lymphocytes the spleen can slowly enlarge over time. That's stage II disease.
And then finally, the CLL cells can get into the bone marrow, which is like the factory for making your blood cells. And if the factory floor gets all gummed up with CLL cells it can't make the normal red cells, that's called anemia. Or it can't make the normal platelet cells, that's called thrombocytopenia. And when we start to see those more advanced stages III and IV of CLL, that usually does require treatment. And what the treatment does is it clears out the factory floor and it allows for the normal machinery to make the normal blood cells again. So, that's one of the more common reasons why treatment is needed is due to anemia and low platelets. Second reason can be if the lymph nodes or spleen get so bulky that they're uncomfortable or threatening organs internally. We want to treat before that becomes a real threat.
And then, the third thing that usually happens as the disease progresses, patients can develop some symptoms, what we call constitutional symptoms. These can be things like unintentional weight loss, drenching night sweats that are happening on a consistent basis, and those sorts of things. So, if that's happening at the same time as these other factors are progressing, those would be reasons to treat.
And notice that one thing I did not say is the white blood cell count itself.
That's a common misconception. Some people think that as the white blood cell count goes higher – and people use all different thresholds, 100, 200 – that by crossing that threshold you need to start treatment. And in fact, that's not the case. We have many patients whose white blood cell count can get very high but then it can kind of level off and plateau for a period of several years, and as long as they don't meet those other treatment indications, they don't need to be treated just based on the white count alone.
Hmm, okay. Well, once it's time to treat, of course then it's time to think about treatment options. Let's walk through the types of treatments that are used today to treat CLL.
As I alluded to before, we historically have had chemotherapy-based approaches to treat CLL. And that was an effective way to temporarily put the disease into remission, but it had a lot of side effects and inevitably the CLL would come back. And the challenge particularly with chemotherapy-based approaches it that when the CLL does come back after chemotherapy, it tends to behave more aggressively and be harder to treat.
So, there have been quite a few studies over the last few years trying to figure out ways that we can avoid using chemotherapy as the first treatment, and this can involve treatments such as monoclonal antibodies. People may have heard of rituximab or a newer drug, obinutuzumab. There are the inhibitors of the B-cell receptor pathway, and this is for example ibrutinib, which targets a protein called BTK, also a newer one called acalabrutinib, which targets BTK. And then, I mentioned at the beginning these fixed-duration therapies that stop after a period of time. Many of those are based on a newer oral drug called venetoclax, which when we give it as a first therapy, we give in combination with that antibody obinutuzumab.
So, a bit of an alphabet soup. I know it gets confusing with all the different treatments, but the good news for CLL patients is, 1.) we have a lot of options, which is great, 2.) we don't necessarily need to use chemotherapy anymore, and in fact I use it pretty rarely these days. One situation where I do still consider chemotherapy is for younger patients – which in the CLL world is sort of under age 60 or so – if they have very favorable biology to the disease, in particular this mutated IGHV.
That's a scenario where the older chemotherapy regimen, FCR, can be very effective. It's a six-month treatment, and we have patients with those molecular characteristics who are now 12, almost 15 years out from their initial six months, and they're still in a complete remission. So, many of those patients have been functionally cured of their CLL from the six months of treatment. But again, there are some risks to that approach. We worry about other cancers that may be more likely after receiving FCR. We worry about infections, and particularly in the COVID situation, we worry about COVID infection in patients on chemotherapy.
So, it's been pretty rare that I've been using that approach these days. I've been opting more for the novel agent-based approaches. So, often now the conversation as an initial therapy comes down to, "Do you prefer more of a continuous treatment strategy with a BTK inhibitor drug like ibrutinib or acalabrutinib, or do you like the idea of a time-limited therapy with one year of venetoclax in combination with obinutuzumab?" And I would say there's pros and cons to both approaches, and we don't know which one is the optimal one for CLL patients to start with, but probably I think most patients at some point in their lifetime are going to need one therapy or the other.
So, maybe in the end it doesn't matter too much which one you start with if you're going to get both eventually anyway. But we don't know that yet.
Right. Where do clinical trials fit in with the treatment approaches?
So, clinical trials are really how we've made all these advances in CLL over the last decade. It's how we learn about new treatments. It's how we learn about how to optimize the treatments that we have. I think sometimes patients have a misconception that clinical trials are a last resort, the idea that you've exhausted all the standard options and then you go to a clinical trial as your last hope. But I actually like to kind of turn that on its head and say that clinical trials are actually the first resort, the first best option for patients. Whenever patients can get access to a clinical trial at any stage of their disease, I would really encourage them to consider it.
We have quite a few clinical trials now in the frontline setting, meaning as an initial treatment for CLL, including some that are in development and will open soon. And these are the studies that are going to really help us define what the optimal regimens are. What's the optimal sequence of these different novel agents?
And in CLL, really, we're at a point where the research on the disease is so mature that when you're in a clinical trial you're either going to be on one regimen that you know you're getting and you know it's going to be an effective regimen, or you might be in a comparative trial where you could be randomized to one of two or three different regiments, but you know that each one of those regimens is one that we think is a great regimen. We just don't know which one is optimal for individual patients. So, this is not a situation where there's placebo-controlled trials where you don't know if you're going to get an active treatment or not. CLL is an area where we design our clinical trials so that all patients are going to be benefiting from cutting-edge approaches.
And so, not all patients have access to trials, and that's okay. Again, we're fortunate that we have many good options that can be given locally, but I do encourage patients even if they're only able to travel to a CLL specialist once to have an initial consultation to think about doing that to get a CLL specialist on your team, so to speak. That way they can identify clinical trial options that may be a good fit, and even if not, they can advise on what the optimal treatment options are to receive locally with your own oncologist.
How do patients find out about these clinical trials?
I do think the best way is through a CLL specialist because certainly they would have a great pulse on the trials, they have available at their own center. They should also have a sense for what trials are available maybe at other centers. Some of that can also be, there's a great resource through The Leukemia & Lymphoma Society where they can help navigate patients toward specific trials that may be applicable to them.
There's also a website called clinicaltrials.gov. It can be a little challenging if you're not familiar with it to navigate the site, but it is actually pretty straightforward. You can put in the disease and look at different options for trials based on different drugs, for example. They'll list the eligibility criteria for the trial. That's often I find a way that patients can begin to identify whether they may be a candidate. You can't tell from the website whether you're definitely a candidate or not. You really need to partner with an investigator who's on the trial to learn that, but it certainly can be a good starting point to figure out what's out there.
With CLL, what are the goals of treatment?
I like to say to patients, "The goals are to make you live longer and live better." You want to obviously have treatments that prolong life, but you also want to have treatments that are helping with symptoms, and giving patients more energy, and making them feel better, and protecting them from some of the risks of the disease. And so, I think the goals do vary a bit based on the stage of life that patients are at.
I see a lot of patients in their 70s and 80s, and in those patient's symptom control, having the disease be in a good remission, allowing them to live their life is a good goal. I sometimes see patients in their 40s and 50s, and some of those patients want to be a bit more aggressive and try to do a strategy that will get them a very long-term remission, and even potentially explore potentially curative strategies.
If I have a higher-risk patient with deletion 17p who's young and fit, and they've already had some of the novel treatments, that's where we start thinking about clinical trials of some of the cellular therapies like CAR-T cells that people may have heard of where you use the T cells from the patient to try to use that as a therapy to kill off the disease. Or even a bone marrow transplant is something that we have used historically in CLL. We don't use it as often now, but for younger patients with high-risk disease it's still a consideration to try to achieve a cure of the CLL even though the risks of that are significant.
It sounds like there are several factors to weigh then in making this decision. Lately we've been hearing the term "shared decision-making," which basically means that patients and clinicians collaborate to make healthcare decisions.
And it can help patients take a more active role in their care. What are your thoughts, Dr. Davids, on how best to make this process work?
Yeah, I fully support that model. I think for most patients it's very helpful to be an important decision maker. Really the patient is the ultimate decision maker to say what they want for their own treatment. And sometimes it's hard for me to predict what a patient will want for themselves, so I see my role for most patients as providing the information that they need to make the best decision possible for themselves.
I do try to steer patients a bit in the directions that I think they should be thinking. I'm not going to necessarily present a laundry list of things to patients. I'm going to try to narrow it down to what I think are the most reasonable choices for a patient to make.
I feel that's part of my job. I do still have patients who just say, "Just tell me what to do," and I respect that, too. Not all patients want to be part of shared decision making, and they just want me to decide, and that's fine. But I do find that most patients like the idea of having a voice and being the one to decide, and that way I can help to guide them, but ultimately, it's up to them.
Well, speaking of patients having a voice, are there questions that patients should consider asking when they're thinking about a proposed treatment plan?
Yeah. I think some of the key ones revolve around basic stuff, but sometimes it's hard to think of it in the moment. But thinking about, what are the risks of this therapy? What are the specific side effects that are most common? When you look at a package insert or you look at a clinical trial consent form, you're going to see 100 different side effects listed. I always promise patients, "You won't have every single side effect that's listed here, but you may have a couple of them." And again, my role often is to identify which are the more common side effects that we see and how can those be managed?
And then, I think often you're just asking simply about what are the potential benefits of this therapy? What are the odds that I'm going to get into remission? How long is this remission likely to last?
And then, something that is often challenging for patients to think about – it can be challenging for me as well – is to think about what's the next step? So, I think a good question to ask is, "If I choose Therapy A, what happens if I need therapy again in a few years? What are the options at that point?" because we've been talking so far mostly about what we call frontline therapy, making that initial choice of treatment. But then, once you get into what we call the relapse setting, a lot of the decision of what to receive at that point depends on what you got as the first therapy. And so, trying to think at least one step ahead as to what the next options are I think can be helpful, certainly for the physicians but also for the patients.
Do you have any advice to help patients speak up when they're feeling like their voice isn't being heard?
That's always a challenging situation, but I encourage patients not to be shy about asking questions.
There's often an imbalance in terms of the information where the oncologist may know more than the patient about a particular condition. And so, I think reading up and trying to educate yourself as much as you can. Whenever possible, including a family member or friend as part of the visit to also help advocate for you. And then, if you're not being heard the way that you think you should be, thinking about seeking out another provider who may be able to listen more.
And sometimes that can be again helpful to have a touchpoint with a CLL specialist who may be able to reinforce some of what you're thinking. If what you're reading online or seeing online is different from what your oncologist is telling you, that may be a sign that it's good to get a second opinion and just make sure you're on the right track.
All really helpful advice, Dr. Davids. Before we end the program, what are your thoughts about the future of CLL treatment and research?
I'm very optimistic about where things are right now. We've gotten to this point where we have so many different effective options, so it's fun for us to now design this next wave of clinical trials to really try to optimize the outcomes for patients.
One area I'm particularly interested in is a concept called MRD, which we haven't talked about yet, but minimal residual disease is a way to look even at a molecular level for tiny amounts of CLL that may be left behind after treatments. And so, one of the things I'm particularly excited about is the idea eventually of using what we call MRD-guided therapy.
So, we talked before about continuous treatment. We talked about what we call fixed-duration treatment where everyone gets a year or everyone gets two years. MRD-guided therapy would actually allow us to vary the length of therapy depending on how a particular patient responds. So, some patients may need one year of a particular combination, but other patients may need two years. This could be a way to really individualize therapy for particular patients. It's also a way to monitor patients who are in remission after they've stopped therapy.
And so, there's another wave of trials looking at, should we be intervening early when patients develop recurrence of their MRD rather than waiting until they're having progression of the disease? There's still a lot of unanswered questions about these sorts of approaches, but I think it's going to help us get even better at treating CLL.
All of this is contingent though upon the fact that patients continue to be interested in clinical trials and enrolling in trials so that we can really push the boundaries and learn even more about the disease. So, again, if no other message comes through, it's really to think about clinical trials as a way to continue to improve outcomes for all patients with CLL. I think it's a great situation where both the individual patient who's participating in the trial can stand to benefit, but then also you can really be giving back and helping others.
Dr. Davids, thank you so much for taking the time to join us today.
It's my pleasure. Thanks so much.
And thank you to all of our partners. If you would like to watch this webinar again, there will be a replay available soon. You'll receive an email when it's ready. You'll receive an email when it's ready. Don't forget to take the survey immed – don't forget to take the survey immediately following this webinar. It will help us as we plan programs for the future. To learn more about CLL and to access tools to help you become a proactive patient, visit powerfulpatients.org. I'm Katherine Banwell. Thanks for joining us.
https://powerfulpatients.org/pen/wp-content/uploads/How-to-Play-an-Active-Role-in-Your-CLL-Treatment-Decisions-1.png 600 600 Kara Rayburn https://www.powerfulpatients.org/pen/wp-content/uploads/New-Logo-300x126.png Kara Rayburn2021-03-30 13:53:392022-01-11 09:44:51How to Play an Active Role in Your CLL Treatment Decisions
What Should You Know About Myeloma Treatment Options?
December 12, 2020 /in MM Newly Diagnosed, MM Programs, MM Toolkit, MM Treatment TK, MM Treatments and Clinical Trials, MM Videos ND, MM Videos TC, Multiple Myeloma /by GIna Craig
What Should You Know About Myeloma Treatment Options? from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.
Dr. Peter Forsberg outlines options in the myeloma treatment toolkit, including targeted therapies, chemotherapy, immunotherapy, and combination approaches —and explains how the recovery process from stem cell transplant has improved.
Dr. Peter Forsberg is assistant professor of medicine at the University of Colorado School of Medicine and is a specialist in multiple myeloma. More about Dr. Forsberg here.
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See More From The Pro-Active Myeloma Patient Toolkit
Myeloma Treatment Options: Where Do Clinical Trials Fit In?
Essential Imaging Tests After a Myeloma Diagnosis
Myeloma Treatment Decisions: What's Right for You Resource Guide
Would you walk us through the currently available myeloma treatment approaches and who they might be right for?
Dr. Forsberg:
At this point, we're lucky that we have a much broader toolkit to treat myeloma than we have had in the past. Myeloma is one of the successes in modern oncology in that way. At this point, we have a number of targeted therapies. Some of those are pill-based options, some are injections or infusional medicines. We have some immunotherapies, which are things like monoclonal antibodies, which help to work.
We use some conventional or older fashioned chemotherapy, often lower doses and as part of combinations. And steroids. Steroids are always the medicine that is one of the backbones of our combinations. In myeloma, we do often use combinations. So, it's usually a mixture of targeted therapies. Sometimes immunotherapies or chemotherapies.
As well as steroids to try to treat the myeloma. And some of the considerations are, which combination makes the most sense. Are there other medical problems or disease related factors like disease aggressiveness that may influence which ones we wanna choose or how many. Also, is a three-drug combination the right fit or is a four or a two drug the right. And it does continue to evolve.
Our options and our ability to use multi-agent regimens has continued to improve as we've gotten better and better therapies that're well tolerated and that allow us to use really active combinations, even in patients who may have substantial other medical problems. So, I think it's been something that continues to evolve over time and will continue to evolve. But the good news is that it's been an issue of just how to incorporate more and better options.
How do we bring these good new tools into the mix as early as is appropriate? To control the myeloma in really substantial ways. And again, as I mentioned, the question of the role of stem cell transplant continues to be an important one. That is a way for us to still use older fashioned chemotherapy at a high dose to help to achieve a more durable remission. But usually, the way that we parse through these targeted immunotherapies and chemotherapies, is something that may be individual.
Although, we have some broad principals that help guide us for how we manage patients across different types.
How do you decide who stem cell transplant might be right for?
The good news in the United States is that we're able to be fairly broad in terms of our consideration of stem cell transplant. There is no age restriction above which it's not. We've gotten better and better at supporting patients through stem cell transplant. We have better medicines to deal with potential toxicities. And so, patients do better and better in going through transplant. But it is still an intensive treatment modality. So, in considering it, it is an option for a large portion of myeloma patients at diagnosis. After we get the myeloma under control. But the decision remains an individual one. Some patients may prefer to defer stem cell transplant until a second line therapy or later.
Whereas others feel very comfortable moving forward with it in the first-line setting. I would say that it is certainly something that we try to demystify for patients. It can sound a little bit intimidating, certainly because it is a little more intense and requires more support. But it is something that we have gotten quite good at navigating patient and supporting them through.
What about maintenance therapy, how does that fit in?
Following initial treatments to get the myeloma under control, whether that includes stem cell transplant or not. Usually we transition into a maintenance therapy. Maintenance therapy is a way for us to sustain control or remission of the myeloma. And make that longer lived. So, what we use for maintenance may be different patient to patient. But it is a important part of our treatment approach for many patients.
Are some therapies less intense than others, and what are some possible side effects of those?
So, certainly there are treatments with varying degrees of intensity or potential toxicities. The good news is that as we've gained more and more treatment options, we've also gotten better at using the ones we have had for a while now to minimize some of their toxicities. So, by adjusting dosing schedule and routes of administration, we've gotten better at fine tuning the tools we have toward minimizing those toxicities.
So truthfully, many myeloma patients after you start treatment, actually feel better than before they started chemotherapy because the myeloma itself is a destructive process and the treatments are quite often well tolerated. That being said, certainly over time, treatment related side effects often emerge. Some of the treatment toxicities may cause some challenges in terms of managing patients through their myeloma process. But usually, those can be overcome. Even if that means needing to adjust the treatment protocol.
Adjust doses, change medicines. And so, while there are varying degrees of intensity, we're usually able to find the right balance for any given patient to still have a very active anti-myeloma regimen while trying to be very cognizant of potential treatment toxicities and taking steps to mitigate that.
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What Key Tests Should Follow a Myeloma Diagnosis?
December 12, 2020 /in MM Advice TK, MM Newly Diagnosed, MM Toolkit, MM Videos ND, Multiple Myeloma /by GIna Craig
What Key Tests Should Follow a Myeloma Diagnosis? from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.
What are the key tests that should take place following a multiple myeloma diagnosis? Dr. Peter Forsberg details the appropriate tests, including imaging and blood tests, that may aid in assessing the risk and informing treatment options.
Essential Tests & Imaging After a Myeloma Diagnosis
How Do Myeloma Test Results Guide Prognosis and Treatment?
What Are Key Factors in Myeloma Treatment Decisions?
What testing should take place following a myeloma diagnosis?
So, after a patient is diagnosed with myeloma, or with suspected myeloma, a number of tests take place to both understand the myeloma. Get some sense for how aggressive the myeloma might be and understand what may be being caused by the myeloma at any given time. So, that involves a number of blood tests. It involves checking urine, doing at least one 24-hour collection of urine. Doing imaging, tests to look at the skeleton or different areas of the body for myeloma involvement.
And a bone marrow biopsy and what's called an aspirate.
So, all those tests together are used to help confirm myeloma, to understand what's going on with it and then to understand some of the characteristics of it that might be important over time.
Some of the more complicated tests when people are initially diagnosed with myeloma to get their head around are some pretty important blood tests that we monitor pretty closely.
Things called the serum protein electrophoresis and serum light chain assays. And basically, those are tools that help us measure antibodies. Myeloma is a disease; it comes from cells that make antibodies or fragments of antibodies. And by measuring those, we can understand the myeloma, we can give it some names. And then we can also measure it over time. So, those can seem a little bit impenetrable to patients when they're first diagnosed, but they're pretty important for patients and for people treating the myeloma to understand where the myeloma stands and how things are going.
What about genetic testing?
So, the main way that we use genetic testing in multiple myeloma is through something called, cytogenetics. And cytogenetics is a way for us to evaluate chromosomes. Chromosomes are in cells and that's where genetic material is contained. And in myeloma, some of the main vents that drive myeloma cells to change from normal plasma cells come through changes in chromosomes.
And so, those chromosome changes that can be detected with different tests, sometimes they're called karyotyping or what's called FISH can give us a sense for some of the changes that may drive the myeloma or have driven it in the first place.
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Confusing CLL Terms Defined
November 23, 2020 /in Chronic Lymphocytic Leukemia, CLL Newly Diagnosed, CLL Programs, CLL Testing, CLL Videos ND, CLL Videos T, INSIST! CLL, Understanding Testing /by GIna Craig
Confusing CLL Terms Defined from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.
What is FISH testing? What is IGHV? Physician assistant Danielle Roberts explains the meaning of these often confusing terms and their role in disease monitoring and CLL treatment decisions.
Danielle Roberts is a physician assistant with the Bone Marrow Stem Cell Transplant (BMT) team at Winship Cancer Institute at Emory University. Learn more here.
Practical Advice for Coping with a CLL Diagnosis: What's Next?
Could CLL Be Inherited?
What Should You Know About CLL Genetic Testing?
Danielle Roberts:
So, a FISH test is a test from your either blood in your bloodstream or from your bone marrow biopsy. And it stands for florescence in situ hybridization. And this is a highly specific test that looks at the chromosomal changes with CLL. This can be done in the peripheral blood or in the bone marrow.
And it's important to remember that when we consider genetic testing and CLL, we aren't talking about inherited genes, but the abnormalities that occur within the CLL itself.
So, an IGHV test is a mutational test that stands for the immunoglobulin heavy-chain variable gene locus. This can also be done in the peripheral blood and the bone marrow biopsy. This test can help us determine treatment options as well as help with determining what high-risk features there are for your particular disease.
So, 17p deletion is the deletion of the long arm of chromosome 17. This can be seen at initial diagnosis or it can be acquired later on in disease progression. So, for all patients this is one of the more important tests that if you're going to ask your doctor if you've had, you should ask at a diagnosis. If you've relapsed later on, you should ask again if that mutational status is being observed or checked in your follow-up testing.
17p deletion is something that can be acquired along the course of your disease progression. It is not always seen at initial diagnosis but can be acquired if you are relapsed or refractory. Therefore I recommend that every time you're having peripheral blood for flow or if you're having bone marrow biopsies, especially if it's for treatment planning purposes, you should advocate to your physician team to make sure that this test is being performed as it will drive – or as it can drive treatment decision-making.
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November 23, 2020 /in Chronic Lymphocytic Leukemia, CLL Advice TK, CLL Newly Diagnosed, CLL Toolkit, CLL Treatments and Clinical Trials, CLL Videos ND, CLL Videos TC, CLL Videos WN, CLL What's Next /by GIna Craig
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Practical Advice for Coping with a CLL Diagnosis: What's Next? from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.
After receiving a diagnosis of chronic lymphocytic leukemia (CLL), patients can have a variety of concerns. Physician assistant Danielle Roberts shares her top three pieces of practical advice for patients to move forward.
See More From The Pro-Active CLL Patient Toolkit
What Is YOUR Role in CLL Treatment Decisions?
Targeted CLL Therapy: What Are the Side Effects?
My recommendations if I could have three things that I would recommend all patients with CLL do, 1.) It would be to have your financial information kind of in line or know how to find that. Unfortunately, a lot of the medications that we use to treat disease are incredibly expensive. However, there are really good patient assistance programs out there. In order to be able to apply for patient assistance programs you do have to submit your financial information to them. So, I would really suggest that you have access or be able to know where to find that.
I would also really recommend you talk to your family members in so that they understand what's – where you are with your treatment and what's going on. As a physician's assistant, one of the questions I generally get is when they bring in a family member or somebody who has not been along in their journey for their treatment, if they're asking lots of questions, that was and kind of diagnosis. So, I encourage people to talk about that at the beginning, so everybody understands where they are and what the plan for the future is going to be.
And then the last thing that I always recommend to everybody is to understand that not one treatment is right for everybody. Understand that things are going to change and we're all going to grow and we're going to learn with the process. But if you don't tell your healthcare team what's going on, we can't help you. And we say that there is no such thing as a bad question to us. You're never bothering us. That's what we're here for. Rather you tell us, even if it may be something you feel is minor, ahead of time so that we can address it and work towards a solution, if there needs to be one.
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How Could Emerging CLL Treatments Impact Your Care?
November 17, 2020 /in Chronic Lymphocytic Leukemia, CLL Newly Diagnosed, CLL Programs, CLL Treatments and Clinical Trials, CLL Videos ND, CLL Videos TC, INSIST! CLL, Treatment Decisions /by GIna Craig
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How Could Emerging CLL Treatments Impact Your Care? from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.
In the changing world of chronic lymphocytic leukemia (CLL) research, how can emerging treatments impact care for patients? Dr. Jennifer Woyach shares information about targeted therapies, immunotherapy and clinical trials, and explains why she is hopeful about the future of CLL care.
Dr. Jennifer Woyach is a hematologist-oncologist specializing in chronic lymphocytic leukemia (CLL) at Ohio State's Comprehensive Cancer Center – James Cancer Hospital & Solove Research Institute. Find out more about this expert here.
What Does It Mean to Have High-Risk CLL?
That's a good point. Are there emerging treatments patients should know about?
Dr. Woyach:
Yeah. There are a lot of really exciting things going on in CLL right now. And CLL is a disease that has been completely transformed in the last five to 10 years and is poised to do so again. So, I mentioned these therapies that we use for frontline treatment, and there are clinical trials now combining them together. So, these agents work so well on their own. Are they going to be even better if we add them together?
There are also newer target therapies, different targets that we are finding increasingly important in CLL, as well as a modality called CAR-T cells, which most people have heard of where we take patients' own T cells, modify them in the lab and then, give them back with a goal of getting those cells engineered to kill CLL cells.
These are all things that are not ready for prime time in CLL yet but are available in clinical trials. And I think one other thing I'd really like to put a plug in for is clinical trials in CLL, because right now we're at a point where our therapies are really very good. But if people just do those treatments, we are never going to figure out which one is the best or figure out, for specific types of patients, which treatment is the best. And so, I advocate that any of my patients that are eligible for clinical trials should consider them, because that's how we make progress in the disease from an altruistic sense.
That's how we make things better for everybody. That's one way a patient can think about it. But more personally than that, being in a clinical trial gives somebody the opportunity to get a treatment that they otherwise wouldn't get that might be better than our standard of care therapies.
Dr. Woyach, as a researcher in the field, why are you hopeful?
I am so hopeful in CLL because there is so much that we're learning every day about the biology of the disease, about specific mutations and other genetic factors that are important and really can be targeted by new drugs. Paralleling our understanding of the disease, there also are many more techniques to make these targeted therapies that kill cancer cells selectively while sparing normal cells and making our drugs even more tolerable.
And I think both the targeted therapies like this and the potential of combining them, figuring out sequences that are best but then, also these newer modalities where we, actually, get the immune system involved like the CAR-T cells. They're making CAR NK cells now. And just lots of other strategies that could be used together with targeted therapies to, hopefully, cure the disease.
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Targeted CLL Therapy: What Are the Side Effects? from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.
What are common side effects of chronic lymphocytic leukemia (CLL) targeted therapies? Dr. Jennifer Woyach discusses side effects of specific targeted therapies and the importance of reporting any issues to your doctor for optimal quality of life.
What Tests Should CLL Patients Insist They Receive?
If there are side effects, what would some of the side effects be for these targeted therapies?
So, it depends on the drug. So, BTK inhibitors, specifically, ibrutinib can cause some joint and muscle pain, some rashes, diarrhea, heartburn. Those are things that tend to, if they're going to happen, usually happen earlier on in treatment and tend to get better over time. It can also cause high blood pressure. It can cause an abnormal heart rhythm called atrial fibrillation.
So, those are things we watch out for with ibrutinib. Acalabrutinib really has all of the same side effects but for many of them, they don't occur as often. And then, the tradeoff there is ibrutinib is given once a day and acalabrutinib is given twice a day. With venetoclax plus obinutuzumab with that regimen, you get a lot more hematologic toxicity. So, you see more lowering of the good white blood cell count, which is, obviously, a risk for infections. That regimen comes with a risk of something called tumor lysis syndrome, which is where the cells can break down too quickly and cause damage to the kidneys, damage to the heart.
It can also cause some GI disturbance like some diarrhea, nausea, abdominal pain, things like that. I see there are a lot of side effects. And, of course, when I'm talking to a patient about treatment, we go over them in more detail than that. But I think the important thing is with all of these therapies, we do have ways to manage these side effects.
One thing I think is important for patients to remember is your doctor doesn't know you're having side effects unless you tell them. So, we know that people have these side effects. But if you don't tell us that you're having diarrhea or heartburn or things like that, we can't help with it. And we have a lot of medicines that can help these things.
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November 17, 2020 /in Chronic Lymphocytic Leukemia, CLL Newly Diagnosed, CLL Programs, CLL Resources ND, CLL Treatments and Clinical Trials, CLL Videos TC, INSIST! CLL, Treatment Decisions /by GIna Craig
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What Is YOUR Role in CLL Treatment Decisions? from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.
What is the chronic lymphocytic leukemia (CLL) patient's role in making treatment decisions? Dr. Jennifer Woyach explains frontline CLL therapies and how patients help guide the treatment decision that's best for them.
Dr. Woyach, what do you feel is the patient's role in this conversation about treatment approaches?
I think that, obviously, the patient is the most important part of the talk of treatment indications. Like I mentioned, sometimes we have the discussion of chemotherapy versus a targeted therapy. More often, the discussion is we have three approved frontline CLL therapies right now. We have two BTK inhibitors or Bruton's tyrosine kinase inhibitors, ibrutinib, acalabrutinib.
And then, we have a BCL-2, venetoclax, that's given in combination with an antibody called obinutuzumab. These are very different treatments in terms of side effect profiles, how they're administered, how often they're administered, just as an example. The BTK inhibitors are pills. And they're meant to be given indefinitely. So, you start them with plans that you're not going to stop them, unless the patient doesn't tolerate them or they stop working. And so, with that type of regimen, you have the kind of burden of being on treatment for a long period of time.
But on the flipside, it's very easy to start treatment. So, if you decide you want a BTK inhibitor, I write a prescription for it, it comes to your house, you start it. I usually see patients monthly for the first six months and then, we go to every three months. It's very easy to start treatment.
The other type of treatment, the venetoclax plus with the obinutuzumab regimen, that's the BCL-2 inhibitor with an antibody, it's a finite therapy. So, people are treated for a year and then, they go off treatment. The flipside of that is they're a lot more time intensive in the beginning. So, you have the IV therapy with the obinutuzumab. Venetoclax you, actually, have to ramp up the dose so patients have to come in weekly for the first five weeks, and they have to come in monthly for their infusions. So, it's much more time intensive up front but then, you get to stop treatment. And so, those are considerations that I can't answer for somebody.
I don't know which one people would prefer and people prefer different things. So, we spend a lot of time talking about all of the different scenarios and what's going to make the therapy work best for the patient.
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November 17, 2020 /in Chronic Lymphocytic Leukemia, CLL Newly Diagnosed, CLL Programs, CLL Videos ND, CLL Videos WN, CLL What's Next, INSIST! CLL, Treatment Decisions /by GIna Craig
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Could CLL Be Inherited? from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.
Can chronic lymphocytic leukemia (CLL) be inherited directly from parents? Dr. Jennifer Woyach discusses the likelihood of passing down CLL to children and the difference between genetic mutations and acquired mutations in CLL.
We have another question from a patient who wants to know if their children will inherit CLL. Is there any link between inherited mutations and CLL?
That's a very, very common and really important question. I would say of the hematologic cancers, CLL is one with higher linkage in families, which means that people with CLL are more likely to have another family member with CLL though it's still not very common.
And it's very different from breast cancer or the solid tumors where we know that these specific mutations indicate families that are going to have risk of disease. There has actually been a lot of study over the years of families that tend to have multiple people with CLL. Unfortunately, there really have not been genes identified that are the reason for those family linkages. I think there has been only one family that I know of where they've actually found a gene that was likely the cause of multiple family members' illnesses. So, yeah, there is no indication to test family members.
I tell people do not worry that you're going to pass this to your children or your grandchildren. CLL is not something that we should be using as like a marker of whether you should have kids or should have anything like that.
So, maybe a little more likely in family members but not enough to really be worried about that.
What are the differences or difference between inherited and acquired genetic mutations?
So, inherited mutations are those that you get from your parents. And there are lots of inherited mutations that, actually, can predispose to cancer. Specifically, I mentioned the TP53 mutation and CLL cells. Well, there are also people who inherit a TP53 mutation have risk factors for multiple cancers. And CLL, specifically, every mutation that we talk about is an acquired mutation. So, that's also known as a somatic mutation. So, they're mutations in the cancer cells. But if you did DNA sequencing of the normal cells, they would not be there.
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November 17, 2020 /in Chronic Lymphocytic Leukemia, CLL Newly Diagnosed, CLL Programs, CLL Treatments and Clinical Trials, CLL Videos ND, CLL Videos TC, CLL Videos WN, CLL What's Next, INSIST! CLL, Treatment Decisions /by GIna Craig
What Does It Mean to Have High-Risk CLL? from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.
What does high-risk chronic lymphocytic leukemia (CLL) mean exactly? Dr. Jennifer Woyach explains the meaning of high-risk CLL, factors in determining disease progression, and the impact on treatment decisions.
Could CLL Be Inherited
We have a patient question. I have 17p deletion. Should I be worried?
So, 17p deletion is usually associated with more aggressive disease biology almost always associated with that unmutated IGHV. The reason I bring that up is there are a very small subset of patients who have 17p deletion and mutated IGHV who, actually, have pretty indolent or slow growing disease.
People who don't, which is the majority of them with 17p deletion, do have a shortened time to treatment and shortened survival with most of our current therapies. There have been a lot of advances though in the treatment of 17p deleted CLL. And may of our newer therapies can very much prolong the remission time in the lives of patients with 17p deletion.
Dr. Woyach, how do these chromosomal changes affect disease progression and prognosis?
So, the markers that are associated with more aggressive disease biology usually are going to be associated with people that need treatment within the first few years after diagnosis, especially those people who have 17p deletion, 11q deletion, unmutated IGHV.
What exactly are prognostic factors? Would you define that?
Sure. Prognostic factors, and I mentioned three of them, the IGHV, FISH, and the TP53 mutation, are ones that have been studied extensively and shown that the presence of this marker or some change in this marker is associated with a change in the biology of the disease or in the response to therapy.
How does the identification of these changes or mutations affect treatment options?
Well, right now, we're lucky in CLL because we have a lot of treatment options. I would say the most important changes when we're talking about somebody with CLL that is about to start their first treatment is the decision of whether chemotherapy is ever appropriate. So, almost everybody with CLL now is treated exclusively with targeted therapies.
So, nonchemotherapeutic options. There are some people who are young, and in CLL terms that means under the age of 65, who have mutated IGHV and who otherwise have good genetic list disease. So, normal chromosomes of the 13q deletion, no TP53 mutation. That small subset of patients, actually, has the potential to be cured with a specific type of chemotherapy. It's called FCR or fludarabine, cyclophosphamide, rituximab. So, for those young, healthy patients, it's really important to know those risk factors to know if they are in that group that has that potential for cure.
The converse to that is if patients don't fall in that group, they probably shouldn't receive chemotherapy as their first treatment, because it's not as effective as our other therapies.
Yeah. It makes sense.
And then, even in the future with first and other treatments with novel therapies, we know that patients with 17p deletion and TP53 mutation tend to have a shorter response time. And so, what I use that for in my practice is I know that those are people that I really have to be sure that we're following them closely, taking any signs of progression seriously, and always have a back-up plan for what we're going to do if this treatment doesn't work.
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