text:
J.J. O'Hara
Coronavirus Shuts Down All Federal Prison Visitation for the Next 30 Days
Editor's Note: This story has been updated to reflect the fact that the Bureau of Prisons has canceled all visitation at all 122 of its facilities for the next 30 days. Additional updates will be added as we receive more information on this matter.
The Frank Report has now verified that the Bureau of Prisons has completely shut down visitation at all of its 122 facilities for the next 30 days. That includes visits from family members, friends, and attorneys (Attorneys can request a waiver – and those requests will be considered on a case-by-case basis).
As a result of the BOP visitation ban, Keith Alan Raniere – and the other +/- 1,600 inmates at MDC – will not be seeing any visitors for the next 30 days. Per the BOP ban, inmate movement between facilities will also be canceled for the next 30 days – in a further effort to block the spread of the coronavirus throughout federal prison facilities.
But, notwithstanding all the new measures that it has enacted in an attempt to block the spread of the coronavirus in its facilities, the BOP will still require new prisoners to report as previously scheduled. Gotta keep the hungry beast fed.
MDC by MK10ART
Similar measures have already been enacted in several state prisons throughout the country as part of the attempt to slow down the spread of the coronavirus.
In Illinois, for example, the Department of Corrections (DOC) has suspended all prison visits "until further notice". To offset the canceled visits, the DOC is providing funds for each inmate to make two 20-minute phone calls – and one 15-minute video visit (More on the outrageous prices that inmates are charged for such things in a later post).
The Florida Department of Corrections has also suspended all in-person visits at state prisons until at least April 5th. With 96,000 inmates, Florida has the third-largest state prison population in the nation.
Several other states have indicated that they may also shut down prison visitations after this weekend in order to slow down the spread of the coronavirus.
Coronavirus Is Our New Reality
I happen to have some experience in dealing with major public health issues like the coronavirus. That comes from the years that I served as the director of the Missouri Department of Social Services (MDSS).
At that time, MDSS contained several divisions that are separate cabinet-level agencies in most states: e.g., the Division of Children & Family Services; the Division of Youth Services; the Medicaid Division; the Division of Aging; the Bureau for the Blind; and the one that took up a disproportionate amount of my time and attention, the Division of Health.
While I was in Missouri, the state experienced several major public health crises. These included:
– the permanent abandonment of the town of Times Beach after it was inundated with dioxin-laden floodwaters;
– the evacuation of the state's largest office building in Kansas City, MO because of asbestos contamination; and
– the forced closure of the largest nursing home in the state because of patient abuse issues.
I'm certainly not an expert on public health issues – but I do know a lot about what happened behind the scenes when we encountered major public health issues in Missouri. And I think a lot of that knowledge is applicable to the current crisis we are experiencing with respect to the coronavirus.
Conditions at MDC Are Ideal for a Coronavirus Crisis
As most Frank Report readers know, I also have first-hand knowledge of the conditions and operations at MDC. That's because I spent 28-months there as a guest of the Bureau of Prisons.
At this point, I think it is inevitable that the coronavirus will show up at most, if not all, prisons and jails throughout the country. And when it does, it will often result in a major health crisis – and numerous prisoner deaths.
A place like MDC could produce truly horrific results.
That's because, in addition to the overcrowding and bad food that are common in most jails and prisons, MDC has a few "special attributes" that I think makes it especially susceptible to something like the coronavirus.
Here are ten reasons why I expect that the coronavirus will infect a much higher than average percentage of the inmates at MDC.
First and foremost, MDC does not provide any outdoor space for the 1,600+ inmates that are housed there. Except for the handful of inmates who spend a few minutes outside each day on their way to off-site work assignments, the closest that MDC inmates come to fresh air and sunshine is when they look through an 8' high chain-link fence that serves as one wall in a small area that is set aside for "recreation".
Second, MDC offers no real exercise equipment for inmates. While a few units may have a ping pong table, "recreation" in most units is limited to watching TV, card games, dominoes, chess, and a "walking room" that requires 80-90 laps to complete one mile.
Third, the living conditions are generally unsanitary. Having 120 grown men living together in one area – and sharing 6 showers, 6 sinks, 6 toilets, and 15-20 dining tables – basically ensures that everyone ends up trading illnesses back and forth.
Fourth, MDC's HVAC system only has two modes: "On" and "Off". What that means is that it's often freezing inside the facility from June 1st through September 30th, which is when the air conditioning is turned on – and stifling from October 1st through May 31st, which is when the heat is turned on.
Fifth, there is a constant influx of new inmates coming into the facility. Because the vast majority of the inmates at MDC are either awaiting trial or awaiting sentencing, there are new prisoners arriving almost every day. They, of course, bring with them whatever germs and viruses that were at their prior residence.
MDC Prisoners
Sixth, hand sanitizers like Purell are banned – and actually treated as contraband. That's because they contain alcohol.
Seventh, the number of medical staff is insufficient to deal with any serious disease. In addition to being chronically understaffed, the Medical Unit at MDC also suffers from the fact that it does not attract – or retain – high-quality staff.
Eighth, taking prisoners to outside medical providers is complicated and costly. Whenever an inmate is taken to an outside medical appointment, he has to be shackled – and accompanied by at least one armed officer. When they return, the inmate must be examined by a member of the MDC medical staff before he can be brought back to his unit.
Ninth, personal hygiene is non-existent for some inmates. No matter how much turnover occurs in a unit, there always seems to be 2-3 guys who simply don't believe in showering and/or in washing their bedding or clothing. That often results in things like bedbugs, lice and all sorts of other little creatures showing up.
Tenth, no one really cares. Guards and administrators at prisons are not particularly interested in the health and well-being of inmates – and taking inmates down to the Medical Unit requires paperwork and time. For that reason, unless an inmate has a very visible need for medical help, it may be weeks before they will be taken to the Medical Unit (I knew several inmates who inflicted bleeding wounds on themselves so that they could get taken to the Medical Unit for less visible medical issues).
MDC Guards May Stop Coming to Work
Given their relatively low wages – and the higher-than-average risk that they have to deal with every day – it will not surprise me if the prison guards at MDC start calling in sick when the coronavirus shows up at MDC.
Correctional Officers
That's why I think it's quite possible that we'll end up with members of the National Guard – or even the Army – being brought in to serve as substitute guards.
Stay Informed, Stay Alert & Follow Instructions
Hopefully, the various cancellations and postponements that are taking place all over the country will, in fact, help to "flatten the curve" of the coronavirus pandemic (All that means is that we'll be able to stretch out the time it takes for the same number of people to get infected – which, given our limited resources for treating coronavirus patients, is actually a very important thing to do).
But even if we're successful in doing that, it is vitally important that every person stay informed about what's going on, stay alert for situations that may expose them to the virus, and follow instructions (Yeah, washing your hands as often as possible is extremely important!).
And just remember that as unhappy as you might be because of all the inconveniences you're experiencing right now, things could be much, much worse.
You could, for example, be one of the 2.3 million Americans who are currently incarcerated – and who will be facing a much higher threat level from the coronavirus than the rest of us.
Massive Cover-Up Going on at Brooklyn MDC to Prevent Intervention by Federal Judge
K.R. Claviger
Raniere's Bleak & Comedic History in Prison: Stay Tuned for News on Massive Cover-up Regarding What's Going on at MDC
Raniere Sentencing Delayed – Again
Escort International For Incall And Outcall Dates – The Blogging of Dowling 146 says:
[…] Posted: Sat, 14 Mar 2020 07:00:00 GMT [source] […]
Ani Blackfox Prague Independent Escort – The Journaling of Salinas 399 says:
Corona Fake is likely just another global elite distraction and/or underhanded institution mechanism of whatever plan they are undertaking. And if it isn't a fake, it's likely a genetically engineered biomodification that was created to help in that process. What it isn't is some "natural" creation that just suddenly mutated and decided to show itself.
Stock markets overvalued and need a sell-off? Economies actually worse than the manipulated numbers say? Shortages due to greed and hoarding? Can't get country C to work with the trade policies you want? Need to silence continuing global protests in a non-police state non-military manner (social isolation) due to problematic elitist policities all across the world that are putting money, controal, and power into the hands of a hidden few more and more each day?
Create a global pandemic that masks whatever and induces fear in the general public so that they have to worry about what is most immediately important to them: their lives.
There is no coincidence. Only opportunity.
Create a problem. Induce the reaction. Create your solution to a dumb-downed public.
Like Bernie said in the debate last night at the end in his conclusion, we need to find out who the real power is behind all of this, those who hide in the shadows.
https://ethics.wikia.org/wiki/Problem_Reaction_Solution
AnonyMaker says:
If things like this don't happen naturally, then how do you explain the plague, cholera, the 1918 Spanish Flu, and the Asian/Hong Kong flu pandemics of 1956 and 1968?
Have shape-shifting reptilian humanoids with advanced alien bioengineering technology been among us all along, experimenting on humans and harvesting us for food?
Or could it be that things really do just happen, for reasons that are unsettlingly unpredicatable and random?
Your logical fallacy is personal incredulity
"Because you found something difficult to understand, or are unaware of how it works, you made out like it's probably not true.
Complex subjects like biological evolution through natural selection require some amount of understanding before one is able to make an informed judgement about the subject at hand; this fallacy is usually used in place of that understanding."
https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/personal-incredulity
Your logical fallacy is appeal to ridicule.
And yours is appeal to pedantry or trivial objection
Okay, you're technically correct that could be construed as ridicule. I offered it in part as a sort of a reductio ad absurdum argument – "disproof of a proposition by showing an absurdity to which it leads when carried to its logical conclusion" (Webster's).
But take it out, and my argument still stands perfectly well.
If you want to help press for a cleanup of argumentation here, eliminating fallacious (il)logic and insisting on high standards of supporting evidence, I'll support that fully.
–And yours is appeal to pedantry or trivial objection.
You don't make an argument by pointing out a fallacy.
Hah! As if I was making an argument that needed to be responded to. I stated an opinion of a conspiracy. A proof of a conspiracy would be impossible to prove at this level, especially for one person so soon during the said events, as it would have been meticulously planned for many years with high degrees of control. To expose something like it would require information from people on the inside who operate secretly and would require a change of conscience to betray their high pyramidal positions of power and take many years to prove if it could even be done.
I just read what I believe are signs from cause and effect, following various trails, and just feeling something wrong in the gut. The world is simply getting worse. The economic disparity between the haves and have nots is getting larger every day. People are no longer rooted in traditional values and are becoming more self-centered and morally corrupt. "Satan" has always worked slowly, just like the leader of this cult, deceiving you in degrees, making the bad seem good, and vice versa, loosening the inhibitions of the general populace until they barely have any. Using a phrase often associated with cults, "he boils the frog", so to speak. I've known the stock market was being pumped for years and was due for a timed economic collapse, and that global demonstrations were getting more and more commonplace and disruptive across the world, e.g., France and Hong Kong. Not to mention things like 911, Iraq, Syria, Yemen, Lybia, etc. Just because you don't hear about such events in the controlled media narrative that exists in your particular country doesn't mean you can't get it directly from elsewhere. The world is more globally connected now than ever before.
Problem Reaction Solution (Latin: Ordo ab Chao) is a mass mind control system. It is used to make changes to the law that the citizens would not accept otherwise.
Create a problem: Terrorism, financial crisis, pandemic, etc.
Manufacture a reaction: Let the mainstream media only broadcast/print the side of the problem you want to show
Provide a solution: wars, corporate tax-cuts, welfare budget cuts, vaccines, etc.
The latin phrase Ordo ab Chao is a Latin expression, meaning Order out of Chaos. A motto of the Thirty-third Degree Freemason, and having the same allusion as lux e tenebris.
MLMs are pyramids. Ponzi schemes are pyramids. The stock market is a pyramid. The Washington Monument is an obelisk. All obelisks are crowned with a pyramid. The all-seeing eye sits on top of a pyramid on the back of the U.S. dollar bill, and at the bottom is the words Novus Ordo Seclorum: New World Order.
I do agree with you. As an English teacher, I too am involved in an MLM, think its Michael Che that tells that joke about a friend of his with 1. Literary ambitions. 2. Degree in Eng. Lit. 3. Teach English. I'll try and find it for you. Here in the UK, this OaC manoeuvre looks and feels like a cult.
This Is How Many People Die From the Flu Each Year, According to the CDC
While everyone is in a panic about the coronavirus (officially renamed COVID-19 by the World Health Organization), there's an even deadlier virus many people are forgetting about: the flu.
Flu season is hitting its stride right now in the US. So far, the CDC has estimated (based on weekly influenza surveillance data) that at least 12,000 people have died from influenza between Oct. 1, 2019 through Feb. 1, 2020, and the number of deaths may be as high as 30,000.
The CDC also estimates that up to 31 million Americans have caught the flu this season, with 210,000 to 370,000 flu sufferers hospitalized because of the virus.
https://www.health.com/condition/cold-flu-sinus/how-many-people-die-of-the-flu-every-year
You apparently haven't been paying attention to the facts and math disussed below, and thus completely fail to understand how much more severe the effects of COVID-19 are compared to regular flu.
As discussed, the death rate for regular flu is something like .01%, while for COVID-19 the current WHO figure is 3.4% and Italy is reporting about a 5% case fatality rate – with 368 deaths in just the last 24 hours, which would be the equivalent of 1,850 in the US' population. The hospitalization rate has been 10% to 20% in Italy, and the Surgeon General is saying to expect that higher 20% rate.
If, for instance, 31 million people catch the coronavirus this season, that would result in over 6 million hospitalizations – while there aren't even a million hospital beds in the whole country – and over a million deaths at the WHO rate. Even if it were kept to the .8% case fatality rate in South Korea, where they have gotten way ahead of the curve by testing as many people ever day as we have tested here to date, and then hospitalizing them (they have over 4 times as many hospital beds per capita as we do), that would still be 248,000 deaths – not hospitalizations. And then it's going to hit again next flu season, unless a vaccine has been developed faster than normal; if it spread similarly in a second season, that would amount to close to the death toll of the 1918 Spanish Flu, assuming that lowest possible rate of deaths and that it doesn't infect more than a fifth of the population (61 million total out of 327).
You're really getting unhinged in your denial of the situation. That's like what it would have been for Allison Mack and the other true-believer cultists when the branding story broke, and Raniere fled to Mexico – unable to confront that the situation really presented a serious threat to the world they believed in.
Bangkok says:
LOL, you're the one becoming 'unhinged' for pretty much predicting Armageddon from the 'sniffles' with a mild cough. 🙂
The only people dying are the elderly who are already at risk of dying from the Flu.
Doesn't matter how meany deaths happen.
Cuz it'll never outpace worldwide flu deaths.
Truth is, in a few months you'll have EGG on your face and I'll be feeding you some CROW once things have begun to recede and the media hysteria reaches a point of 'over saturation' akin to the Trump impeachment news which eventually got over saturated after a few months.
In a few months, the 'excitement' of being close to Armageddon will have worn off and the sheeple will have stopped stocking up on toilet paper.
Something tells me that you'll be disappointed when this virus recedes without any mass deaths akin to WWII, since you'd LOVE for there to be 25 million deaths just so you could blame it on Trump. lol.
What a loser you are. Stop flipping out. It's basically the flu. 🙂
I'll be humiliating you this summer when your dire predictions don't come true.
I'll also be rubbing Joe's nose in his failed predictions this summer. I'll be feeding him some crow too.
You and Joe should phone each other and organize a mutual circle jerk in real life.
Have a nice day. 🙂
I'm not necessarily predicting Armageddon and, in fact, went to lengths to verify and cite the lower South Korean case fatality rate (CFR) that most people don't even know about (though it's still about 10 times as bad as the flu, rather than 30 or 50 times).
But you've already been proven dead wrong, such as:
Cruise ship data helps reveal coronavirus death rate: researchers
'The London researchers used the lessons from the cruise ship data to estimate the "true" Chinese data — what it would look like if all mild cases had been picked up and reported. By their calculation, the overall age-and-missing-case-adjusted fatality rate would be about 0.5 percent.
That estimate is dramatically lower than the 3.4 percent crude death rate released by the World Health Organization.
However, even a 0.5 percent death rate would make it five to 10 times deadlier than the flu this year.'
https://www.foxnews.com/us/cruise-ship-data-helps-reveal-coronavirus-death-rate-researchers
Given that the US has failed so far at testing and containment, and is unlikely to be able to give patients as focused care as in South Korea (4 times the hospital beds, 100 times the testing capability) or the ship (those who fell ill were were treated in Japanese hospitals with a rare experimental drug) it's likely to be worse that either of those best-case examples, and even the Surgeon General is warning:
'We could be Italy'…
Also, it's not clear that the young are necesarily going to remain unscathed. I think I've already pointed out that there were distrurbing reports of an increase in cases among young people, suggesting that they might just be falling sick after a longer period of latency. Now there are clear signs that they, too, can be affected much more severely than by regular flu.
And this may, again, be part of why, yesterday, the White House and the federal goverment went into crisis, if not panic, mode.
From News Corp (Fox News) NY Post:
Coronavirus doctor says lung scans for young patients were 'nothing short of terrifying'
'Dr. Ignace Demeyer, who works at a hospital in Aalst, said an increasing number of people between the ages of 30 and 50 have presented with severe symptoms, despite having "blank medical records" that show no underlying conditions that would make them high-risk, the Brussels Times reported.
"They just walk in, but they are terribly affected by the virus," Demeyer told the Belgian broadcaster VRT.
He said CT scans indicated they were suffering from severe lung damage.'
https://nypost.com/2020/03/17/coronavirus-doctor-says-lung-scans-for-young-patients-were-nothing-short-of-terrifying/
Look at the fear-mongering by the Democrats:
Nolte: Ex-Obama Official Reports It's Too Late to Stop 'over 1 Million' U.S. Coronavirus Deaths
https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020/03/15/nolte-ex-obama-official-reports-too-late-stop-1-million-u-s-coronavirus-deaths/?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_term=todays_hottest_stories&utm_campaign=20200315
This bogus Pandemic stinks of Politics.
Did you even read the article?
It's from Breitbart, considered a far-right site. Or is that still too libtard, for whatever extreme universe you exist in?
Here's "fear mongering" from the White House's CDC, and what I guess must be conservatives too democrap for you:
The Coming Coronavirus Storm | The American Conservative
' Between 160 million and 214 million people in the U.S. could be infected over the course of the epidemic, according to one projection. That could last months or even over a year, with infections concentrated in shorter periods, staggered across time in different communities, experts said. As many as 200,000 to 1.7 million people could die.
And, the calculations based on the C.D.C.'s scenarios suggested, 2.4 million to 21 million people in the U.S. could require hospitalization, potentially crushing the nation's medical system, which has only about 925,000 staffed hospital beds. Fewer than a tenth of those are for people who are critically ill.
Dr. Lawler's calculations suggested 480,000 deaths, which he said was conservative. By contrast, about 20,000 to 50,000 people have died from flu-related illnesses this season, according to the C.D.C. Unlike with seasonal influenza, the entire population is thought to be susceptible to the new coronavirus.'
https://www.theamericanconservative.com/dreher/the-coming-coronavirus-storm/
The White House is working off those estimates, which is why they're in the panic that they are, but just not putting specific numbers to them, for fear of letting on just how grim the outlook is – for instance when Surgeon General Dr. Adams talks about "the 20% who wind up needing hospitalization", in a normal flu season with about 30 million cases what that really means would would be 6 million – far outstripping hospital capacity.
NiceGuy3.5 says:
AnonyMaker & Everyone else….
Everything AnonyMaker is stating is correct.
I was a programmer for a healthy care software company called Eclipsys Software before it was bought out.
Hospitals can only handle so many patients. There are barely enough beds for their average number of patients. The slightest increase overloads the system.
I will try to write some more on the subject. This is one subject I'm well versed in.
NiceGuy, I'd love to hear from your expertise and experience.
It's something I think people need to understand, in order to appreciate why the measures currently being taken are necessary.
Apparently the administration doesn't think people can face the truth, and is talking about the 80% who get well, failing to address the implications of the remaining 20% – if that's over, say, something like a regular flu season load of 30 to 60 million cases, and then probably a second flu season with a similar number of cases.
Maybe the math – and the reality – is just beyond a certain demographic. I noticed that a passing acquaintance from many years ago who I had friended on Facebook, is apparently a Qanon type who posted this piece that must be going around:
U.S. cases: 1,663
U.S. deaths: 40
Panic level: Mass hysteria
President Obama:
H1N1 Virus
U.S. cases: 60.8 MILLION
U.S. deaths: 12,469
Panic level: Totally chill"
Looking at those numbers, it would seem obvious that if you figure the COVID-19 cases in US could reach the same number as the H1N1 cases, the corresponding increase in deaths would indeed be a number to panic over – but apparently not.
Yeah, look at it:
* Monday, POTUS (only posing as a Republican since a switch of party in 2009) basically agreed with the Ex-Obama Official, and maybe even worse, working off the Imperial College London epidemic modeling group report that predicted up to 2.2 million possible deaths in the US (basically, the current US 2% death rate for COVID-19 given 120 million cases over 2 flu seasons)
* Yesterday, Democratic candidate Andrew Yang's plan for $1,000 free money to everyone, was adopted by the White House
On Drudge Report (obviously commies replaced Matt long ago):
Doctor: Lung scans for young patients nothing short of terrifying…
* The featured story on the front page of fear-mongering 'democrap' Fox News this morning:
TROUBLING FIND: Coronavirus can linger in the air for hours and on surfaces — like cardboard boxes — far longer: study
https://www.foxnews.com/health/can-you-catch-coronavirus-surfaces
Is it maybe time to re-consider simplistic worldviews and blind ideological loyalties – just like Allison Mack had to do in 2017?
Every crisis increases government power and reduces citizens' freedoms.
War leads to military drafts.
Terrorism leads to Police State surveillance.
Economic depressions and recessions hinder the freedom of workers, consumers and small business people.
And now this ginned up flu crisis will be used by an evil, grasping government to further reduce our freedoms and civil liberties.
Mark my words:
The first casualties in the Corona Virus Crisis will be Freedom and Truth.
The first casualties in the Corona Virus Crisis will be Freedom and Truth says:
Trump killed Truth years ago
Why are Governors shutting down the restaurants and bars around the country?
The Governors of Illinois and Ohio just announced they are shutting down restaurants and bars to fight the Corona Virus.
The plan is very simple.
America's political elite wants to shut down the restaurant industry and wipe out a big chunk of the economy.
When the economy collapses, Donald Trump is blamed and Biden is elected.
They're just just following the advice coming from administration officials like the NIAID Director at the NIH, if perhaps a bit more proactively – though we may well see many other governors taking the same steps as soon as today, regardless of party affiliation:
'Dr. Anthony Fauci says he would like to see aggressive measures such as a 14-day national shutdown.
The worst is yet ahead for us," Fauci said. "It is how we respond to that challenge that is going to determine what the ultimate endpoint is going to be."'
https://www.fox2detroit.com/news/president-trump-calls-on-americans-to-stop-hoarding-groceries-supplies
Also, this is effectively guidance from the administration to shut down night clubs, and at least larger restaurants and bars:
CDC recommends no events of more than 50 people for next eight weeks
https://q13fox.com/2020/03/15/the-cdc-recommends-organizers-cancel-or-postpone-events-with-50-people-or-more-for-8-weeks/
As I predicted, not just more governors regardless of party, but POTUS himself is saying to shut it down today.
It's not that simple – falling neatly along black-and-white ideological alliances – is it?
That sort of desire for over simple answers and a world with us-against-them battle lines drawn, is just what drew people like Mack to Raniere.
JB Pritzker, The Fat Slob Governor of Illinois has closed all restaurants and bars in the state for two weeks.
Picture of the fat slob Governor of Illinois, JB Pritzker.
https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/zI5AWQlCEV51BNd1_7vMF42kXSA=/0x0:2400×1626/1200×800/filters:focal(1008×621:1392×1005)/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/66503242/Pritzker_meet_press_virus.7.jpg
I have the actual real mortality rates separated into to age groups given to me today, by a friend who is a professor of Epidemiology who is friend of mine who, gets the worldwide stats every evening at 20.00 GMT, but I'm not even going to try to give them to you, as you all seem very convinced that your wildly varying and incorrect speculations are spot on.
Sorry about the absurd typos. I haven't slept fot 71 hours!
In order to destroy the economy and defeat Donald Trump, the fat slob Governors of Illinois and Ohio are shutting down all restaurants for two weeks.
Once again, using The Google and doing a bit of fact checking might prevent you from spreading obvious fake news, and making embarassing mistakes.
Ohio's DeWine is a Republican who has campaigned with Trump. He's basically just following the advice now being put out by top administration officials like National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases Director Anthony Fauci:
"If it looks like you're overreacting, you're probably doing the right thing"
There are many Republicans who haste Trump.
They would rather have the Bush Family Gangsters in the Presidency.
They are called Never Trumpers and they are the Scum of the Earth.
Ohio's DeWine (R) looks to be much more trim and fit than you describe yourself.
Just as with Allison Mack, you appear to be attacking others as some sort of sad projection of your own insecurities.
He's an elitist Republican weasel who despises Trump.
Wtf says:
You Trumpers with your isms and schisms, totally equivalent to any hot mess you can point out on the left.
Heidi Hutchinson says:
Shadow, you're just as delusional about Donald Trump being a swamp drainer, "Q," hero as you were about Allison Mack being Chloe Sullivan.
And I bet when your Trump illusions are shattered, you'll be on some blog 24/7 calling him a pimp and making fun of his imaginary cankles, too.
Stingy, stingy. C'mon Paul, don't let your hard work go to waste or the bullies get to you. Let's see your stats, pretty please.
Just how dead do you have to already be for this thing to actually kill you?
I'd be impressed with a 'pre-existing condition' variable breakdown, too.
During December, January and early February, when the public could have been made aware of the magnitude of the Wuhan virus in China and the possibility of pandemic, the media was completely immersed in the phony impeachment process
There is no doubt that the Impeachment Dog and Pony Show diverted the government's attention from important affairs of state.
The first job of the government is to protect the American nation and people.
Not to provide pointless political theater.
Scott Johnson says:
There was a lot of misinformation coming out of China as well.
Xela says:
The response of the Democrats and their media to the actions of Trump involving the free market and the American people in his efforts is beyond the comprehension of Democrats. They believe all attempts at reducing the death rate will fail and be as ineffective as Obama's H1N1 failure. They are now ramping up fear as preparation for a blame attack for that reason.
Toward this end they are not reporting any of the developing offense against the Wuhan Virus in any detail. Instead their reporting about the virus is vague and ill defined except for death rates. To get any real data you need to listen to the press conferences or go the official sites. The "news" is designed to frighten and anger, not inform.
One point of worry about the response is placing Google at such a critical point . Google is a company of far leftists who share the left's contempt for individual human life. If sabotaging this effort would bring closer the dictatorship of the left, they will do it.
Reason says:
The virus is another political tool used by the deep state and blown out of proportion by the media and the leftists. As one of their democrat gods Rahm Emmanual has stated "Never let a good crisis go to waste"
I'd like to present an alternative view.
Has anybody ever considered that Coronavirus, just like all ailments, is merely part of the organic cycle of Earth which is designed to keep us from keeping overly sick & frail people from living beyond their intended time and to prevent 'overpopulating' our planet —- which could destroy our natural resources?
Whether you believe in God or evolution, it's clear that things in our universe have evolved from an 'intelligent' beginning.
The way that the 'cells' of our immune system work to fight off disease is pretty remarkable. So is the way that all cells in the human body work to do their specific functions.
Even the way that 'stars' are born and die is amazing. It's not something happening "just because"…
Whatever cosmic force created this universe ('multiverse', actually) used 'intelligent rules'.
These 'rules' always begin with something being born and then eventually dying to make way for other births. This is true of stars, planets, animals, people, cells, etc.
Thus, as people age, they are meant to eventually die. It's normal.
Contrary to modern beliefs, it's just not normal to wanna live to 90 or beyond, since the few people doing that are frail and in constant pain (and are not living a wonderful lifestyle). These are people just inching along each day, waiting to die and end their pain.
Modern medicine is not helping them by extending their lives to ridiculously old ages.
95 is not the new 55.
That's horseshit.
95 is 'old' and 'frail' and means living in pain with almost no mobility. It means a loss of 'dignity' when somebody must change your bed pan.
The fact that we're using modern medicine and drugs to keep people alive longer (than before) is only prolonging the aging process beyond its intended purpose —– by keeping frail people, who often live in pain, from kicking the bucket when it's truly their time.
Maybe Coronavirus, like all ailments, is simply meant to restore some balance back to nature by sending the most frail among us (the elderly who are in pain) into the next world where they'll have everlasting life?
…and if you don't believe in God or heaven, then 'dying' will simply result in taking away their pain for good.
Why are we obsessed with changing nature?
Why are we obsessed with trying to blame a politician for nature?
*Europe has done far worse than the USA in reacting to this virus ——– so if 'blaming politicians' has any merit, then European leaders are the biggest idiots on planet Earth. 🙂
If ailments weren't an 'intended' part of nature, they likely wouldn't have evolved to overpower our immune systems and cause death.
Ailments weren't created due to modern chemicals. That's hogwash. Ailments have always been here.
Cancer has been around for 2 million years in human-type ancestors and for 250 million years in fossil evidence from animals.
People and animals died of ailments long before the modern world arrived, so you can't say that 'chemicals' brought about these ailments.
People from the Bronze Age died at VERY young ages.
Even people from the Dark Ages died at much younger ages than people today.
We're not making life any better at old ages. We're simply prolonging the pain and frailty that old people often experience —- sometimes for many years, while billing their insurance companies to make the medical industry rich.
*Before you claim that I'm trolling you with this article, think about this…
Isn't it interesting that Coronavirus only kills the most aged and/or frail people (weak immune systems) and does not do any real harm to 97% of the population?
Do you think that's by accident?
It's also interesting that ailments which have REALLY high death rates (which sometimes spread easily) are NONETHELESS still more easily eradicated/contained than Flu or Coronavirus—— which again, seems to indicate that nature intended them to be that way (otherwise the human race could die out very quickly).
Even ailments like 'cancer' which does kill people at all ages (even young people) still tends to affect older people more often than younger people, or younger people with weakened immune systems.
I'm just asking if human beings are being arrogant by trying to control Coronavirus and other ailments?
Who's to say these things are not part of the natural process of Earth?
In 1918, the Spanish flu killed millions of people, and most of those who died were young and healthy. My grandfather was 16 at the time, and he was so close to death due to this flu that he was given last rites. Miraculously he survived.
So, obviously your logic doesn't pan out when we look back on the history of previous epidemics.
Why is everything always about you? What the HELL does your grandfather surviving the 1918 Spanish flu outbreak have to do with what is happening over a century later?
The 1918 Spanish flu (and by the way, the Libtards are trying to get rid of the word "Spanish" from that episode) was complicated by several factors, including WWI: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_flu
Scott, it was just a comment on Bangkok's logic. He claimed the virus was basically "God's plan" to kill off the sick and the elderly….but yet in 1918 "God" killed off the young and healthy.
And Shadow has mentioned that his grandfather died from Spanish flu in 1918, and you didn't mention anything about his comment.
Your misogyny is showing, again.
Bangkok was making a generalization. Young people used to die from a lot of diseases a century ago. He also left the question open to people who believe in God and heathens. I don't recall Shadow making that comment, where is it? I don't hate all women, just he stupid ones. And dudes, too. LOL
Nutjob says:
Good counterpoint, Flowers. Obviously, Johnson typed without reading what you were responding to.
My counter-counterpoint was much better. LOL
You make excellent points, for a change.
My Amway upline Platinum scam artist, Dr. James (Jim) LaRose (married to his equally evil wife Jeannette) and still practicing medicine in Houston, told me nearly 30 years ago that the good news is doctors can keep people alive much longer, and the bad news is doctors can keep people alive much longer.
My own nearly 94 year old father is currently in that position, and there are millions of people like him, a once alert, engaging, and physically active man, and now very senile and with a variety of physical ailments – I do not look forward to potentially experiencing that lifestyle.
I do not want to have massive medical money spent on me, or the millions of others who will be in that position in the future, to make more money for the medical and nursing home industries while my family spends money, time, and effort while watching a breathing vegetable waiting for the inevitable to occur.
How much money are we willing to spend and go further into debt, how many jobs are we willing to lose, not to mention other adverse economic impacts, how much potential violence are we willing to put up with, in order to minimize the impact of the Wuhan coronavirus? The Libtards are drooling over this "opportunity" to further put us under their boot, just as the Chinese and Europeans have already done to their subjects.
Really depends on how much you love your old dad, innit? Our Ma is in her late eighties, acromegaly, dementia, mobility problems, also she never was kind friendly helpful toward most people including us, the Fam. She fires caregivers by the dozen, for having foreign-sounding names, for stealing jewels she never owned to begin with, for committing heinous and unforgivable social faux pas at events she never attended, Queens Garden party? Ella Fitzgerald's birthday party?
She is difficult, to say the least, and care is expensive and time-consuming. We have still made her our no.1 concern during this Covid-19 situation. I don't invite the government to come and cull my elders, thanks. Take the long view if you have one to take. If you have a loving full complement of generations in your Fam, be aware that how you treat your vulnerable and infirm now, is pretty much how your children will treat you. Both you and Bangkok sound like a pair of lonely old men. Is that why you're so bitter about abstractions? like liberalism?
Thank you for your very unproductive thoughts. Is "love" worth bankrupting a country? Has the medical field surpassed the "do no harm" and entered the "do not leave a penny on the table, no matter the suffering" arena? I didn't invite the government to do anything. I have taken the long view, it's all over my comments. I am neither old or lonely, but you are probably too scared to come on my show to discuss. LOL
God bless you, Wtf. Like many I'm worried sick about my Dad in a nursing home and even more so about my disabled son but, ironically, I can't see either of them to even say goodbye if it comes to that BECAUSE in no small part of the machinations of a corrupt components of the justice AND healthcare system working in tandem with some crooked, greedy taking advantage of similar corruption that allowed NXIVM to fester on it.
And I'm sure I can't be the only person — in fact I personally know many others stricken by NXIVM and what it's history says about the flaws in our system — so effected…
So please pardon our skeptism that just maybe we're not being told the whole truth about Co-vid 19 including what population it allegedly effects…
Doesn't mean we don't love our families.
Bless you too, Heidi. We cant care for our dad, because he's in Scotland, under quarantine. (nursing home) and they won't allow visitors. Not everyone has children or indeed kids who would ever be in a position to care for us when we are elderly. I get more concern and help from an unrelated but very close set of neighbourhood kids, who call me 'mums' some of whose own kids I still tutor. The point being, love is never guaranteed, but if you give love and care as standard, you might stand a better chance of receiving some in return.
CW3 Python Swoope says:
Believe me … if they bring in the National Guard – THERE WILL BE DRINKING!
CW3 Python Swoope:
My nephew recently joined the National Guard and while he is still on training and undergoing drills, it is quite possible that he will soon be called upon to help distribute food, drinking water and other supplies.
And he does not drink alcohol.
I doubt you know your nephew as well as you think and you can't extrapolate his personal behaviors to every other person in the National Guard, General Nuisance. LOL
I know your garage is still filled with Amway swag that has been dormant for years.
Put it to good use by donating it to people to fight the Corona Virus.
Wal Mart donated bottled water to the victims of Hurricane Katrina.
Aren't you Amway folks patriotic enough to donate all those wonderful Amway products to fight a Pandemic?
Ironic that Frank Paralto is a huge Trump supporter. Trump slashed funding for the CDC. Denies and represses science in the federal government. Fired the pandemic team at the CDC years ago. Trump has horrible job leading the government during the early days of the outbreak. He obsessed on the virus as "foreign", keeps referring to boaders. Shut off travel from Europe, except Britain and Ireland which have very high numbers of corona virus patients- because he has golf courses in there.
Britain and Ireland are now also included in the travel ban. No longer an exception, just a logical step.
Frank Parlato says:
I am not a huge Trump supporter. I don't think he is perfect.
I do think he was probably better for America than the alternative, Hillary Clinton, certainly better long term for America than Sanders and possibly better than Biden.
I think the Democratic party has many good ideals but in general their left leaning goals seem to require them to want to empower the government over the people in ways which, while well intended, could have the most anti-freedom consequences in the next generation and beyond.
By giving government the power to provide everything for people, we simultaneously grant them the power to take everything from the people.
I've seen enough of corrupt government to know that if they have the power they will use it for good and for evil [and not only good as many Democrats seem to think.]
Good people everywhere know we need to limit government not constantly expand it. We have to improve our lives by our own efforts and not always by using the force of government to solve all the wrongs in our country. To the extent that Trump understands this better than the Democrats I support him. It is not however huge support but qualified support.
Frank, you are principally basing your position on the veracity of the invisible hand concept in economic terms. That is nothing but an imagined vision.
Everything needs to be overhauled. We can't continue mud-slinging matches under the guise of who's leftist, who's right-wing…
Tell us how you would overhaul everything.
Where are you going, Scott? I don't believe you are such a simpleton, to fail to appreciate how complicated it all is! What did you expect with this question? An idiotic answer containing 'straightforward' solutions to an extremely complex environment…
Stop looking for dissent so often…
Jesus..
I'm not going anywhere. Why can't you answe the question, because you know your Libtard position would be destroyed? LOL
YOU are the one who dissented with Frank, so don't tell me not to dissent. What gives you the right to dissent with Frank, but I don't have the right to ask a simple question? LOL
I doubt Trump understands much, other than ways to limit the government's ability to prevent him from pillaging money from American tax payers and enriching himself and his cronies. If you think having Donald Trump as President of the United States, is better for this country than someone like Hillary Clinton or Biden, than you must think having Keith Raniere as President would be better than having someone like yourself. Trump and Raniere are both lying, narcissistic, vindictive, lazy, dim, conmen who assault women and take no responsibility for their actions. Neither are mentally or emotionally fit to serve as President no matter whether you share their beliefs or not. Anyone who still supports Trump at this point is no better than Nicki Clyne.
My concern is not so much about the individual who is president but the doctrines of the party that nominates and elects him. Too many Democrats, though well intended, believe that government [i.e. force] is the remedy to society's evils. They would use force of government to correct all injustices they see with the notion that 51 percent should have the unlimited right to rule the other 49 percent. Not realizing that by empowering government to eliminate their pet injustices will require empowering the government to create remedies that will create many more injustices in time.
The new paradigm being that a more empowered government is something the people will be less able to restrain when it runs amok. They want a more obedient populace. This spirit is in direct contradiction to the spirit of the US Constitution.
It is not that I support Trump, I support many of his supporters who, for the most part, want less government. They in large part seem to have the common sense to know that government can't be Santa Claus but it can pretend to be Santa Claus or Big Brother then end up being tyrannical.
In my opinion, many of the Democrats, with the best of intentions, would take away all safeguards to liberty and end the Republic in order to end their current social injustices [many of which could right themselves without the use of government force.]
These liberty thefts don't happen all at once either. They often start off as seemingly good and the newly empowered government does what it was first assigned to do. But the bureaucracy is created; the laws empower, the funding is perpetuated and new tasks are undertaken by the bureaucracy that was never intended when it was created.
It is not Trump I support, my friend, but the notion of an independent people who cherish freedom and have a certain character or spirit of defiance. Yes, even a healthy defiance of of government, a healthy distrust of government.
If there is anything we need just now is less government solutions to injustice; and more personal defiance of injustice. There is barely a remedy that the socialist leaning Democrats propose that can't be abused by government against the people in time.
That bothers me more than whether Trump or Biden is the bigger narcissist or liar.
And Trump's 3.5 trillion tax cuts, at a time when wealth was never more concentrated in the hands of a few Oligarchs aren't theft from the poor and working classes and future generations of poor and working classes isn't the worst possible crime in history? His use of the office to enrich himself isn't an enormous crime. His lying non-stop isn't harmful? His denial of science isn't criminal? His prosecuting of enemies and rewarding friends isn't a grotesque use of the office?
So, what system are you advocating for?
Anarchy is the state of a society being freely constituted without authorities or a governing body. … Anarchy is primarily advocated by individual anarchists who propose replacing government with voluntary institutions.
We could use a lot less 'archy' but I doubt we are ready for anarchy. A balance along the lines of when in doubt -keep the government out.
The term anarchy covers a wide range of idealogies, Frank. After reading many.of your recent articles which spread the idea that we should be very mistrustful of the government, I think your agenda is becoming clear.
So Frank, you are basically Barbara Bouchey. Not necessarily a fan of the Trump but just the policies he purports to support. Do you think Raniere, who shares many of the same personality defects as Trump, would be fit to serve as President? Less government sure would makes ones grifting easier, correct? If stupid women want to give their money away to a guy claiming to be celibate or sleep with such an obvious conman, who are you to expose his ruse, right? If stupid voters want to vote for a deranged conman, why do you care as long as you benefit from tax cuts.
Trump is just a puppet for those groups with certain agendas…..that would mainly be Evangelical Christians, White Nationalists, and Anarchists.
They ignore Trumps many negative qualities because they have a "the ends justifies the means" attitude.
I doubt Trump understands much,
Your TDS is hilarious.As things continue to progress, Trump will be shown to be the right leader at the right time. He is one of the world's greatest success stories. You of course another wacky loudmouth on the internet.
Well said, Anon @11:50
I think the Democratic party has many good ideals
LOL you are too funny Parlato. One of their ideals is to see your ass unfairly thrown in jail.
It was Democrats who moved to indict me and unfairly accuse me, but I do not blame all Democrats for that.
No President can slash funding, that Constitutional responsibility belongs to the Congress. Read this (and the Constitution) and try again, and this time use facts: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/trump-cut-cdc-budget/
Trump cuts off people people coming in from China and he's a racist. The prohibition on Europeans coming in was extended to include the UK and Ireland within a couple of days. You need to get a clue, Libtard Dave. Try getting your information from more than Libtard, Lame Stream Media sources. LOL
Today's Democratic Party in action.
For new levels of IMMORALITY vote Democratic.
Andrew Gillum, Democratic candidate for Florida Governor who lost by 30,000 votes, found in South Beach Hotel room with a Gay male escort who overdosed on meth amphetamine.
They met up through the website "RentMen.com"
From the New York Post
https://nypost.com/2020/03/14/man-busted-with-andrew-gillum-in-hotel-room-with-meth-was-gay-escort/
Andrew Gillum was caught in a room with more than just drugs.
The man who overdosed on crystal meth in a Florida hotel room with Gillum, a Democrat who made an unsuccessful bid for Florida governor, was an openly gay male escort with a profile on the website RentMen.com, Florida's Local10 reported Friday.
Travis Dyson also identified himself as a "pornstar performer" who offered services including "gay massage." He went by the name Brodie Scott on his Rent-Men profile.
Gillum was not arrested but "was unable to communicate with officers due to his inebriated state," according to the report.
Ya Trump isn't the most corrupt man who ever lived.
Besides being off-topic, that is the sort of fallaciously simplistic black-and-white us-versus-them thinking typical of cults – it would have fit right in with Raniere's and NXIVM's "The Knife" media effort to portray their world view as more ethical and rational, and you might even have done quite well working alongside Allison Mack going after the "suppressives" who were their particular bogeymen.
A fact-check like using The Google will tell you that no party has a corner on morality or immorality, though perhaps "conservatives" try a bit harder to keep it in the closet (or back on the ranch – Mormon polygamy with all its abuses is ensconced in, and often given protection in, thoroughly "red" parts of the country).
Even the Murchochs' (Fox News) New York Post hasn't been able to resist commenting on the phenomenon:
Male escorts are making crazy money at the RNC
'Most men paid to have sex, but one client requested to "do his business in the corner" while watching his wife in bed with the escort.
"The Republicans have a lot of delegates in the closet, let's put it that way."'
https://nypost.com/2016/07/21/male-escorts-are-making-crazy-money-at-the-rnc/
Homophobic Republican caught on camera with teenage male prostitute
'Police have released body cam footage of 'traditional values' politician Ralph Shortey, who was caught in a motel room with a teenage male prostitute.'
https://www.pinknews.co.uk/2017/12/05/homophobic-republican-caught-on-camera-with-teenage-male-prostitute/
And a bit of a historical reminder:
20 Republican Politicians Brought Down By Big Gay Sex Scandals
http://www.newnownext.com/19-republican-politicians-gay-sex/12/2016/
It is refreshing to see some balance thrown into a rabid atmosphere of rigid name calling!
No "fair and balanced" listing of Libtard behavior, such as the recent failed Florida governor? LOL
You always start out your comments as "even-handed" and then beat up only one side with your examples. Typical Libtard behavior, and we see right through it. LOL
It is not enough to completely ban visiting traffic in the prisons for relatives and friends and to restrict or prohibit it for lawyers. There is no introduction of a quarantine section for new prisoners being brought into the prison. Has this been forgotten in reporting, or has the Ministry of Justice or prison administration not yet thought of it? If so, they should do it quickly before the Coronavirus reaches the prisons.
World Health Organization Flu figures:
Quote from WHO web site:
"Worldwide, these annual [flu] epidemics are estimated to result in about 3 to 5 million cases of severe illness…"
"…and about 290,000 to 650,000 respiratory DEATHS per year [worldwide]."
Hey Joe, that's 3-5 MILLION cases of flu each year worldwide.
Hey Joe, that's 290,000-600,000 DEATHS from the flu each year.
Hey Joe, why do these 290,000-650,000 deaths from THE FLU matter less than the measly 5,000 deaths from Coronavirus?
A dead person is a dead person, can we agree on that, Joe?
It doesn't matter how they kick the bucket, they all matter the same, right?
So WHY THE FUCK don't you even bat an eyelash when thinking about these hundreds of thousands of DEATHS each year from the flu?
More importantly, why do you get all hot and bothered by the measly 5,000 deaths from Coronavirus?
Are these people more special? If so, WHY the fuck do you believe that?
Even if the Coronavirus spreads massively, it won't likely outpace the flu in deaths per year.
You dumb fuck.
Hospitalizations are largely unnecessary for both illnesses, as most people go to the hospital when they get the sniffles ——- and the doctors let them stay to use up their insurance, not because it's necessary.
Our health care system is based on overuse and fraud.
Regular hospital beds can't do SHIT for Coronavirus or the flu anyway —— since there is no viable treatment other than staying hydrated which any idiot can do at home by drinking Gatorade.
The only 'necessary' treatments are ICU patients on respirators (for the aging few who get serious complications) —– but these are the same people who are pretty much on their last legs in life anyway. These are the aging few who are doomed to die from pretty much anything. These are the people who are already set to meet their maker and I don't see the big deal about it.
The flu kills way more people than Coronavirus ——- that's the bottom line.
Thus, it doesn't matter what other numbers you pull outta your aging ass, Joe.
You're largely just a liberal blow hard, Joe.
You're a god damn Bernie lover.
You're a fucken commie and IMO you don't deserve your US citizenship.
I'd love nothing more than to work with ICE to deport your butt back to Ireland or wherever the fuck your family hails from.
"…and the doctors let them stay to use up their insurance, not because it's necessary." No, the doctors and hospitals are ordered by the insurance companies to discharge them. And why do you keep being such a pu$$y about coming on my show? LOL
Corona virus has a mortality rate of 3%. The flue has a mortality rate of .1% .
Wildly incorrect, but believe it if you want.
Hardly wildly so – 3.4% is the WHO figure (see more detail in my reply to Johnson).
This came out from the CDC in the last week – not taking into account the higher rates seen in Italy:
Case-Fatality Risk Estimates for COVID-19 Calculated by Using a Lag Time for Fatality
We estimated the case-fatality risk for 2019 novel coronavirus disease cases in China (3.5%); China, excluding Hubei Province (0.8%); 82 countries, territories, and areas (4.2%); and on a cruise ship (0.6%). Lower estimates might be closest to the true value, but a broad range of 0.25%–3.0% probably should be considered.
https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/6/20-0320_article
Where do you get your figures from, third world countries with poor medical care and countries with a large elderly population? LOL
3.4% is the worldwide WHO figure. Italy's may be higher because of an aging population, but in general they have a good healthcare system producing several years' longer life expectancy than in the US, not to mention having more hospital beds, suggesting that in a first-world country like the US with a younger population, the fatality rate may still be in the ballpark of that WHO number.
"And the country's fatality rate from COVID-19—at 5%—is much higher than the global average of 3.4%, according to the World Health Organization. "
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/why-deaths-from-coronavirus-are-so-high-in-italy/
Even if the rate in this country is even just 1%, if the estimate holds that up to two-thirds of the US population becomes infected over this and the next flu season before a vaccine is developed, total deaths could still be over 2 million.
If you worked with nuclear power, I'd think you'd understand being very cautious regarding situations with high potential dangers.
I understand statistics and know that many more people have probably had the Wuhan coronavirus than we know, making the 3.4% figure inflated (coincidentally, much like the 3.4% Amway retail sales figure being inflated because of falsifying computer records, search for 3.4% here: https://stoptheamwaytoolscam.wordpress.com/devos-lies-van-andel-nods-his-head-in-agreement/). Most of the deaths come from China, which you are trying to equate to a first-world country like the U.S.? LOL
The aging Italian population being kept alive by modern medicine is a double-edged sword. This population is very frail and highly susceptible to relatively mild diseases like the common cold, the flu, etc., being fatal.
Italy does not have more hospital beds than the U.S., they have slightly more hospital beds PER CAPITA than the U.S., and the median age is several years older (and birth rate significantly less than the U.S.): https://ourworldindata.org/age-structure You don't have a clue how to analyze statistics, I am much better, so you should STFU. LOL
I did work in nuclear power, and I understand proper analysis of information is extremely important, something you don't have a clue about. LOL
Do really you not get the numbers, or do you just like to be argumentative?
You're citing numbers of flu deaths per year, and coronavirus is a particularly harmful new infection currently on an increasingly sharp curve whose endpoint is unknown:
https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/exports/total-deaths-covid-19-who.svg
With COVID hospitalization rates 10 to 20 times as high as flu, and death rates 5 to 25 times greater, if it does spread like flu it will be a health disaster:
https://global-uploads.webflow.com/5e51fbe5a0e9527505b6f09e/5e6b3ba43dfad87603cb613f_COVID%20fatality.png
"Across all ages COVID-19 has a fatality rate of around 2.3%, a number which has been declining, but still is much higher than the seasonal flu at .1%. It is also more contagious than the seasonal flu, with an R naught (the estimated number of other people each sick person will likely infect) estimated from 2 to 3.1. For comparison the seasonal flu has an R naught of 1.3, and Ebola an R naught of 2. "
https://www.harmanrogowski.com/post/covid-19-update-3-13-2020
Italy is the reality-check that this is not a normal flu – and for what could happen here. There also may be a disturbing new trend there:
Coronavirus: More young patients being admitted to hospital, Italian doctor warns
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/coronavirus-italy-update-young-people-hospital-luca-lorini-bergamo-a9402531.html
That article also states, "Now the virus has spread, it is travelling around the whole country way more and it is younger people, with lots of social contact, that are more at risk of contracting the disease if they do not stick to the rules of social distancing." Italy also has a large Chinese presence, they have been buying up the country for the past several years. Combine the above with the world's second oldest median population and you have a recipe for disaster. You're very good at trying to get people frothed up, and terrible at analyzing facts. LOL
I need a Correctional Officer. No matter how hard I try, I still can't do punctuation correctly.
Kim Snyder
Tried to talk to Frank about how serious this pandemic is- said, " he is a specialist"- asked him how- he told me, " media specialist- he is trying to medically help his own". As a CNA- told him, " this pandemic is going after ages 60 & up- he does NOT want to listen. My concern is- he won't self quarantine- and stay SAFE! Stress on the body- is one way of getting this virus.
I have tried to tell Frank- that the President and Vice President- have asked the "media" to stop causing chaos all over the world!!!!!
This "pandemic" is dangerous- am trying to Keep "hard headed" Frank from getting sick- but he has told me- " I don't tell you how to do tour job- don't tell me how to do mine". I am NOT trying to run his life- but he needs to be careful!!!!!
That is all we are trying to say. Our family cares- anyway- oh well.
Frank is a Trump supporter and like Trump he understands science better than the guys who actually believe in science.
Science is not so much a question of "belief" as a process to understand how the world works.
Science is not a final answer.
Science is a method for finding the best answer using observations and testing out theories.
As a person with a degree in chemistry, I can assure you global warming is caused by CO2 emissions. Trump's attack on science is grotesque. He is a moron. His actions of refunding the CDC are immoral.
And in the winter when the Northeast is hit by massive blizzards, all talk of Global Warming evaporates and is replaced with Climate Change.
Please understand that Frank Parlato is a tough and determined man.
Frank has gone through too much to give up just now.
Frank Parlato will not only survive but so will you and I.
Kim, you already have a Guardian Angel to protect you in the form of Kristen.
Kristen wants you to continue your quest to understand what happened to her and bring those responsible to Justice.
Kristen will see you through these times.
Have faith.
You have nothing to fear but fear itself.
Shadow State.
Good on ya Kim, for caring:)
John Davis says:
Maybe VanStinky can use his high IQ brain to come up with a Special White Milk Vaccine to save his ass at MDC.
Or maybe his MDC roommates will give Keith a special conCOCKtion cum this week.
Ahhh… We can only hope. But it would be ironic.
A comment I posted early on Friday morning:
shadowstate1958
At this point, the delay might be more related to the Coronavirus pandemic panic than anything else.
Once basketball tournaments and baseball seasons are canceled or delayed, you know the nation is in crisis mode.
https://frankreport.com/2020/03/12/will-coronavirus-postpone-scheduled-sentencing-dates-for-keith-raniere-and-clare-bronfman-and-will-kathy-russell-nancy-salzman-lauren-salzman-and-allison-mack-ever-get-sentenced/
Expect the sentencings to be delayed further.
I doubt it. The judge needs to get this behind him and the court, there are new bad guys and girls coming in every day.
The judge is not the only cowboy in the rodeo.
There are all kinds of court workers, clerks, bailiffs, lawyers, witnesses and others who go into the functioning of a court.
And a judge can not self-isolate while sitting on the bench.
They can take precautions.
Pyriel says:
Shadow – I imagine there will be a few delayed sentencings in the UK as there are many elderly Judges. PM Boris Johnson has decided that all the over-70s should self-isolate for 4 months.
I suspect judges will be an exception to the rule, as they don't have much contact with others under normal conditions, at least that's how it is in the U.S.
Judges are not Gods, no matter how much they might think so.
Judges deal with ordinary people all of the time.
They do not live in bubbles.
That term, of being a god, is exactly what my lawyer told me before we had the hearings. Judges often have massive egos which often get in the way of justice, and he had never met this particular judge. Judges deal with "ordinary" people all the time, but they generally sit by themselves in an elevated position, nobody comes near them, they go in and out of their own door to their office, etc. Living in a bubble is a perfect description. LOL
Also, they need to be mindful there are new criminals entering the jail facilities all of the time, and that means overcrowded facilities must move people to their next facility. You don't think through issues and respond, you just react. LOL
Pyriel:
This is worse than wartime.
Even during the Blitz, Britishers were not controlled so tightly.
I hope in the wake of all this panic, the governments reconsider their blind devotion to free trade and open borders.
A flattened curve should result in a lesser number of people getting sick, as warmer spring/summer temperatures are expected to knock the virus down as well. Good habits should also keep the numbers down next fall, we may even get lucky and have a vaccine by then.
Orangecountydreams - OCD says:
You are right Scott. It's all about those things. People are freaking out about possible quarantine here. Grocery stores are decimated.
Everything will settle down soon, it always does.
Joe – According to the Daily Mail, visitation is barred for inmates at all 122 Federal Correction Facllities.
Joe O'Hara says:
Pyriel, Thanks for pointing out that Daily Mail article (I'll update the post to reflect that info). Still haven't been able to confirm that info from any U.S. sources as of yet – but I think such a nationwide ban is inevitable.
I was able to verify that the Bureau of Prisons has canceled visitation at all it facilities for the next 30 days. That includes family members, friends and attorneys. See: https://www.bop.gov/resources/news/20200313_covid-19.jsp
Die and vote democrat for life says:
Don't worry, career democrat politician Joey Bullshit Biden will save ya all.
Former Vice President Joe Biden (D) is refusing to listen to the advice of the nation's leading medical experts, continuing his opposition to travel bans in order to stop the spread of the coronavirus in the United States.
President Donald Trump's administration has implemented travel bans on China, Iran, and most of Europe to stop the outbreak of the coronavirus in the U.S. Leading medical experts said this week that 30 states now have coronavirus cases due to international travel with Europe, from where 70 percent of the world's new cases are now originating.
At least nine leading medical experts said this week that travel bans from highly affected countries are necessary to contain the spread of the coronavirus. Biden, though, has continued his opposition to any travel bans after telling the American public that they must "listen to the experts."
Health and Human Services (HHS) Secretary Alex Azar said this week the travel bans "have given our country valuable time to prepare, and that is precisely what they were designed to do."
"We knew most of the cases were coming from China and that's why the President took an unprecedented step of making sure we restricted travel to those areas," the U.S. Surgeon General Jerome Michael Adams said in a statement.
Dr. Anthony Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, told Congress this week that without the travel bans, the U.S. would be "worse" off in terms of fighting the coronavirus and confirmed again that, specifically, a travel ban on Europe would stop outbreaks in the U.S.
Centers for Disease Control (CDC) Director Dr. Robert Redfield has repeatedly reiterated that travel from Europe is the "real threat" to the U.S. when it comes to containing the coronavirus.
For all Biden knows, China is part of California, as in San Francisco's Chinatown. LOL
What Biden doesn't know, China is also a part of Boston.
Or more accurately, a part of Boston is China.
The Google will tell you that there's indeed a divergence of expert opinion – you're only quoting people who are part of the administration, and bound to support its policies. With a serious medical and scientific crisis like this, it's time to start being rigorous in our thinking, and evaluation of information.
And there's also a key difference between a ban, and the restrictions that were actually imposed – as noted in the second article, lots of people who are probably infected are still actually being let into the country.
Trump's Europe Travel Ban Could Have Limited Effect on Coronavirus Spread, Experts Say – Wall Street Journal
"Public health benefits of international restrictions are shown to be most effective before a virus is widespread in a country"
'The travel restrictions on Europe that President Trump announced this week are likely to have limited impact on the spread of the new coronavirus within the U.S., though domestic containment measures could delay the spread of the disease, experts said.
Targeted travel restrictions can have the greatest impact when they are imposed early, before a disease has reached the country blocking foreigners from entering'
https://www.wsj.com/articles/trumps-europe-travel-ban-would-have-limited-impact-experts-say-11584064071
Will Trump's coronavirus travel ban work? Scientists express skepticism
"Public health experts say that once a disease has begun circulating within a community, banning outsiders is mostly futile"
'"Unfortunately, travel bans sound good," said Bill Hanage, an epidemiologist at Harvard's TH Chan School of Public Health. "But we're way past the point where simply restricting travel is a reasonable response."
Moreover, the US restrictions – which initially applied to EU nations and which have now been extended to the UK and Ireland – ban most foreign nationals from entering the US but do not bar American citizens, permanent residents or many of their family members.
That – is a "profoundly strange" policy in the face of a global pandemic, Hanage said.'
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/14/trump-coronavirus-travel-ban-europe-us
We can't all be as smart as you Libtards. LOL
Die and vote democrat for life
It's like old Joe Stalin said, "It's not who votes. It's who gets to count the votes"
"One vote for the Republican. Nine votes for the Democrat."
Trump is doing such a fine job looting the country for his cronies. Wake up! Your emperor has no clothes.
Just curious: Do you work for a living and pay bills? If so, you might have seen an improvement in your situation through lowered taxes and a booming economy. But to a certain group, Trump will be TERRIBLE no matter what he does.
Would it be too much to ask that people band together during a crisis and put politics aside? Trump has no possible interest in seeing the economy fail, or have thousands of needless deaths on his watch. None. Conversely, I think certain (rich) liberals are dying to see any kind of a crisis, or an economic meltdown. It would suit their agenda, and after all, they've already got more money than they could ever need. This includes many Hollywood stars and overpaid, so called "journalists."
And Creepy Joe Biden is in the earliest stages of dementia.
Biden not only thinks he's running for the Senate, he whispers sweet nothings in the ears of 13 year old girls.
Stop the melodramatic drum pounding, Joe.
CoronaVirus is basically the Flu, you ignorant dolt.
Tens of thousands of people die EVERY YEAR worldwide from the Flu. It's mostly the elderly and immune compromised.
Yet nobody gives a fuck.
Jeeze.
CoronaVirus is basically one step beyond 'the Sniffles'.
Guess what, Joe?
Tom Hanks' son was on social media yesterday mocking the mild symptoms that his parents have. They basically have the sniffles with a mild cough.
If you get the CoronaVirus you'll basically have flu symptoms for 5-10 days. Big whoop.
How is this the end of the world, Joe?
How does this require rationing toilet paper and planning for Armageddon?
Answer me, Joe. You rabble-rousing, melodramatic company boy.
The only people who get pneumonia (from CoronaVirus) are the elderly or people with weakened immune systems, which are the SAME EXACT PEOPLE who die from the Flu anyway.
These people already on their 'last legs' in life, these are people just waiting to give up the ghost anyway.
If not for CoronaVirus, they'd likely die from the Flu or some other ailment soon enough anyway.
You're an asshole, Joe, and a blow hard.
I wish you nothing but the worst in life, sir.
I obviously didn't say anything about the coronavirus being the end-of-the-world. But the kind of stupidity and misinformation that you're spouting could, in fact, be life threatening for anyone who believes you know what you're talking about.
As with all illnesses like this, there are two important figures: i.e., the "infection rate" and the "fatality rate". Although we don't have a firm handle on either of those rates for the coronavirus in the U.S. as of yet, a number of experts in the field have suggested that the "infection rate" will be somewhere around 60% – and that the "fatality rate" will be about 1% (Those figures are consistent with what's happening in other countries).
60% is a much higher "infection rate" than what we experience for the flu for the simple reason that we already have annual flu vaccines that prevent many people from contracting that illness. And a 1% "fatality rate" is ten times greater than the "fatality rate" for the flu.
I normally don't respond to your insipid remarks because my experience is that it only encourages further diatribes from people like you. But since your most recent remarks could actually put people's lives at risk, I'm taking the time to address them.
As a public service, I will encourage Frank not to post any more of your remarks that contain similar disinformation. But you should certainly feel free to call me all the names you want (I personally think that insulting people is the only way you get aroused these days but I could be wrong about that).
Well said, Joe.
Don't be so stupid, O'Hara. When Pablo overplays her hand, it's a great opportunity to put her in her place. That's one of the great things about free speech, people are free to display their stupidity. You should welcome it, and welcome the opportunity to correct the record, which you just did a poor job of doing. LOL
Joe, thanks for your well-thought and expert piece.
What I'm seeing, is that the other important factor with COVID-19 that I mentioned in a couple of comments here and elsewhere, that's unlike anything we've deal with probably since the polio epidemic or even the 1918 Spanish Flu, is the hospitalization rate. As noted, the Surgeon General is saying it may be as high as Italy is experiencing, or 20%.
To put some numbers to a scenario probaby short of what Italy is actually seeing:
"HHS pandemic planning assumptions
Moderate Scenario (1968-like)
38 M needing medical care
1 M hospitalizations
200,000 needing ICU
As a comparison, there are about 46,500 medical ICU beds in the United States and perhaps an equal number of other ICU beds that could be used in a crisis. Even spread out over several months, the mismatch between demand and resources is clear."
http://www.centerforhealthsecurity.org/cbn/2020/cbnreport-02272020.html
I don't even want to quote the CDC's Worst-Case Coronavirus Model, for fear of seeming alarmist.
What are your thoughts on this?
The figures you cite are basically the same that I've seen but that 20% figure really breaks down as follows: 15% will need to be hospitalized in regular beds – and 5% will need to be hospitalized in intensive care beds.
Since we only have about 100,000 intensive care beds available nationwide, we need to "flatten out" the spread of the virus rather than have 200,000 people needing intensive care beds at the same time. That's exactly what the current quarantine efforts are intended to do.
The same 5% of the infected population will eventually need intensive care beds but if the quarantine efforts are successful, we can avoid the situation where "demand" is double what we have in terms of "supply". That, in turn, will hopefully reduce the "fatality rate".
Eventually, we'll come up with drugs that cure this disease – and with vaccines that prevent it. But rest assured, there will be similar "novel" viruses in the future that will need to be defended against in the same way.
The world ended on the 21st of December 2012. We're all dead and this is the afterlife. That's what I read earlier on in 2012.
Sheriff Moonbeam says:
Well said, Joe. Keep up the good work.
Pablo for certain denies global warming, is an anti vaxer and for certain a Trump supporter.
The particular unique threats of COVID-19 are a combination of higher rates of death than regular flu and higher rates of transmission than any comparable recent virus*, and that an exeptionally high proportion of cases require hospitalization. The Surgeon General is predicting the same hospitalization rate that they're experiencing now in Italy:
'"Of the 20 percent who go on to need hospitalization or more medical care, we know that the folks who are most at risk tend to be people who are elderly and people who have medical problems: heart disease, lung disease, cancer, and chemotherapy," he told Ingle.'
https://www.foxnews.com/media/risk-of-coronavirus-remains-low-most-people-will-not-need-
The 2009-10 SARS outbreak affected an estimated 60 million in the US. At at 20% hospitalization rate that would be 12 million – and the US has less than a million hospital beds total.
This is what is happening now in Italy – where they actually have more hospital beds per capita than we do:
Newt Gingrich: Witnessing Italy's coronavirus crisis tells me US must rapidly ramp up response
"These steps are not an overreaction. The coronavirus is out of control of in Northern Italy.
Because the demand for respirators and intensive care has been beyond any previous planning, doctors have been forced into the kind of triage thinking developed for intense battlefield casualty situations. There are reports that emergency room doctors are allotting respirators to those with higher life expectancy due to the limited equipment in the hardest-hit areas of the province. If you are older or have other illnesses, you may simply not be eligible for treatment."
https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/italy-coronavirus-us-response-newt-gingrich
Since Gingrich wrote that over a day ago, the number of cases has increased 20%, and the death toll 25%:
'A further 175 have been killed by the airborne Sars-like disease in the past 24 hours, bringing the country's death toll to 1,441. ….
Italy's ageing population leaves it in a particularly vulnerable position, with a fatality rate of 6.8% – double the World Health Organisation (WHO) estimate of 3.4%.
https://metro.co.uk/2020/03/14/italy-coronavirus-cases-jump-20-21000-12398751/?ito=cbshare
* Chart showing coronavirus as of over 2 weeks ago, versus SARS, MERS, and Ebola over the course of their entire epidemics:
https://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/emporiagazette.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/8/24/8240c35c-65bc-11ea-b096-f73b4ec41827/5e6c78b22b4a3.image.jpg
Italy let the virus spread much more before they took action.
Not necessarily. We don't really even know how much it's spread here, because we're so far behind everyone, including Italy, in testing:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EPfjCMlWkAEJPZj.jpg
There are signs we are on the same steep curve as Italy, just 7 to 10 days behind them:
How the US stacks up to other countries in confirmed coronavirus cases
The United States is more in line with Italy and Iran than Singapore and Hong Kong.
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2020/3/13/21178289/confirmed-coronavirus-cases-us-countries-italy-iran-singapore-hong-kong
I just checked, and on Mar 4, 2020 Italy reported 3,089 people infected and 107 deaths, which is about where the US is today (Coronavirus Cases: 3,045, Deaths: 60*); 2 days later they locked down the North of the country when that spiked to 9,000 infections and 463 deaths, and as of today it's at 21,157 infections and 1,441 deaths, with hospitals in the hardest-hit areas out of beds and short on equipment to save the most severely ill.
That may not happen here, but given the lack of testing, we have no way of knowing that it won't, either.
* https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/
We kept people from coming in from China weeks ago, and Trump was accused of being a racist. There's just no winning with you Libtards, so it's best to largely ignore you. LOL
The Wuhan virus fatality rate is much higher for older folks with existing health issues and those with compromised immune systems. We can only hope that Pablo is older and enjoys shaking hands with people who sneeze. We already know she's a little pu$$y for acting tough and yet is too scared to come on my show. LOL
Scottie,
I'd love to humiliate you on your own show but my principles don't allow me to do that away from the Interwebs, since I cannot stoop to humiliating another human being in real life — as tempting as it might be.
After tomorrow I may be temporarily away from the forum until May/June, but if you haven't contracted coronavirus by then I'd be amazed, since the Lord hates your ass and he's put you on the list for getting it.
The Lord thinks you're a clown doing the bidding of a joker.
You're not even worthy of doing the devil's bidding, you're relegated to doing the bidding of a clown.
In other words, you're scared sh!tless. Thanks for confirming. LOL
What you say is absurd.
Coronavirus Already Affecting Criminal Justice System – Much More Severe Impact Expected
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Claviger: My Initial Thoughts to Suneel's '44 Questions' on Raniere Trial


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Rose chuckled as she sat at the kitchen table and watched Snuffy's antics. She had cut the top off a small plastic purple cup and was trying to get Snuffy to get up completely on it. Finally after an hour and a handful of raisins, Snuffy finally was up on the cup. Rose fed her a few raisins before deciding to find the Doctor and show him what Snuffy could do. She put the box of raisins in her pocket and put the cup in the other before picking up Snuffy and holding the tiny elephant close to her body. Snuffy glanced up at her and Rose smiled when the elephant felt the underside of Rose's chin with her tiny trunk.
"Getting the sample of Weetabix was the best decision we ever made, Snuffykins," Rose said while Snuffy meed at her.
She walked into the console room and looked around but the Doctor was absent. Rose asked the TARDIS to lead her to him and she turned and went back the way she came. The TARDIS switched the corridors around and Rose followed the direct route to a door at the end. When she came to the door, she paused when she heard cries of anguish and yells of rage coming through it. She slowly opened it and the cries grew louder along with the clanking of steel. She realized there was a battle going on but this was the door the TARDIS led her to so she kept the door half closed while she yelled the Doctor's name through it.
"PAUSE SIMULATION!" she heard the Doctor yell before the battle sounds fell silent.
Rose still hesitated a moment, reluctant to go inside since she had no idea what the hell was going on.
"Yes?" she heard the Doctor say after thirty seconds of silence. "Rose?"
"Yeah, it's me and Snuffy. Can we come in?" she said at the doorway.
"What was that before? It sounded like a battle," Rose said through the door.
"It'd be much easier if you came in here and I showed you. Don't worry, it's perfectly safe."
Rose opened the door all the way and froze when she saw two strange men in front of her. Both men were frozen in the act of dueling with long swords, both of them covered with blood and mud and both had enraged looks on their faces. While she stared at the men in shock, the Doctor walked over and waved when he stopped behind them.
"They're holograms, come here," he said to her.
Rose stepped into the room and noticed that the two men weren't the only one fighting. All over the room, men were engaged in frozen combat. There were also dead and dying men all over the floor. Rose held out her hand towards the two men she first saw. Her hand went straight through the chest of one of them while the Doctor strolled up to her.
"What is this?" she said while the Doctor leaned over and kissed Snuffy on the top of her head.
"This is a simulation room; it allows me to see different things in holographic 3D. This is the Battle of Shara, an important battle that took place centuries ago on Zeke. I was studying it for my own edification and this allows me to be in the midst of the action without putting myself in danger. Come. Join me and I'll explain what's going on."
Rose closed the door and followed him when he beckoned to her. He led her through the midst of the battle while he reached into his pocket and put his glasses on. They stopped near the back of the room and the Doctor pointed out two men. Both of them were young and muscular and wearing armor all over their bodies except for their heads. The man on the right was about to strike the other one with his sword, his face contorted in rage and covered in blood and mud. The other man had a snake tattoo on his forehead, was also covered in mud and blood and was bringing his sword up to block the man's strike. The Doctor pointed to the man with the snake tattoo.
"This is the king of Zeke, Shadra the Third," he said while Rose came up beside him. "The tattoo is a symbol of his household and a sign of his rank. The other bloke is Jesthra the Usurper, the one that killed him and seized power for himself. This battle is where the Usurper took power and we are moments away from Shadra's death. I was studying it when I heard you call to me. This battle brought about a time of peace and prosperity for Zeke, it's a turning point for their entire civilization and that's why I was studying it. So…do you want to watch Shadra's death?"
Rose nodded and the Doctor patted Snuffy's head and let her wrap her trunk around his index finger while he called to the TARDIS and told her to resume the simulation. The battle started again and the sounds of rage, fear and death echoed around the room while Rose watched Shadra block Jesthra's strike. The men continued to fight with the swords while the Doctor walked around them, observing at every angle.
Then suddenly, another soldier ran up behind Shadra, swung his sword at his right leg and took it clean off, much to Rose's disgust. Shadra screamed out in anguish as he fell backwards onto the muddy ground, blood spurting from the stump as he held what remained of his leg. Jesthra sneered at the terrified look on Shadra's face as he held his hand out in a gesture of mercy.
"SO FALLS A TYRANT!" Jesthra bellowed before he brought his sword down and cleaved Shadra's neck from his body.
"Ugh, what a horrible way to die," Rose said while Jesthra raised his bloody sword and bellowed a triumphant yell.
"Compared to his troops, Shadra's death was quick and merciful," the Doctor said to her, studying the headless body.
"Why? What happened to them?" Rose said.
"Boiled and burned alive," the Doctor said. "Jesthra punished them for supporting a cruel tyrant."
"And he thought he was better? After doing all that?" Rose said to the Doctor.
"TARDIS, stop the simulation," the Doctor said to the ceiling. "Well, he had to do something," he said to Rose as the simulation stopped and the room became silent. "Shadra's supporters swore an oath to serve him; Jesthra couldn't trust them so he took steps to remove them. But after that, his reign was peaceful and prosperous. Zeke's history is fascinating, actually. It's worth a look."
"So you can see anything in this room?" Rose said as the Doctor ordered the simulation to end.
"Yes, I can," the Doctor said as the simulation vanished and Rose noticed they were standing in an enormous steel room like an airplane hangar. "In fact," he added, patting Snuffy on the head. "TARDIS, run a simulation of elephants in Africa for Snuffy."
The steel room was replaced by the African savannah and they were standing amidst a group of elephants, young and old, male and female. The Doctor took Snuffy from Rose and sat her on the ground, watching with amusement as Snuffy looked at the simulated elephants the moment she heard their trumpeting calls. She called to them with her tiny meee and Rose was aware that Snuffy was barely taller than one of the adult's feet. Snuffy walked around and meed at the elephants.
"I think she knows she's among her people," the Doctor said to Rose as he neared closer to her.
Rose wondered if Snuffy had been taken from a family group and she wondered if Snuffy thought that she was back with her family again since she was meeing her heart out, trying to get the holographic elephant's attention. She told her thoughts to the Doctor and he nodded sadly.
"Yes, I have a feeling you're right. I think little Snuffy misses her elephant family. She's our daughter now but still…we can't be actual elephant parents for her."
He walked over and bent over to Snuffy.
"You miss your real family, don't you, Snuffy Lumpkins," he said while Rose fought back a lump in her throat. "You love us but you love your elephant mummy and daddy as well, eh?"
He smiled and rubbed her back when Snuffy meed at him. He picked Snuffy up and held him close. Rose came over to him.
"I was looking for you because I taught Snuffy a new trick," Rose said. "But if you're busy in here, we can wait."
"No, I want to see it," the Doctor said. "I was doing this out of boredom. But if our daughter has a trick, I want to see it."
He let Snuffy look at the elephants for a moment more before closing down the simulation. Holding Snuffy close, he followed Rose out of the room and closed the door behind them.


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