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Kevin Freking | Associated Press
December 8, 2021 11:00 PM, EST
Senate Resolution Rejects Vaccine Mandate for Private Employers
The Senate side of the U.S. Capitol. (J. Scott Applewhite/Associated Press)
WASHINGTON — The Senate narrowly approved a resolution Dec. 8 to nullify the Biden administration's requirement that businesses with 100 or more workers have their employees be vaccinated against the coronavirus or submit to weekly testing.
The vote was 52-48. The Democratic-led House is unlikely to take the measure up, which means the mandate would stand, though courts have put it on hold for now. Still, the vote gave senators a chance to voice opposition to a policy that they say has sparked fears back home from businesses and from unvaccinated constituents who worry about losing their jobs should the rule go into effect.
"Every so often Washington D.C. does something that lights up the phone lines. This is one of these moments," said Sen. Steve Daines (R-Mont). At home, he said, "this issue is what I hear about. This issue is a top-of-mind issue."
Lawmakers can invalidate certain federal agency regulations if a joint resolution is approved by both houses of Congress and signed by the president, or if Congress overrides a presidential veto. That's unlikely to happen in this case.
Under the rule, private-sector companies with 100 or more workers must require their employees to be fully vaccinated against COVID-19 or be tested for the virus weekly and wear masks on the job. Exemptions are provided for religious reasons and for those who work at home or only outdoors.
American Trucking Associations, along with three state trucking associations and a number of groups representing various facets of the supply chain, are among those who sued.
Challenges to the mandate have been consolidated in the U.S. 6th Circuit Court of Appeals, which is considering the case.
The Occupational Safety and Health Administration said it would work with companies on compliance but would fine them up to more than $13,000 for each violation, though implementation and enforcement is suspended as the litigation unfolds.
Schumer
Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer (D-N.Y.) said Americans who have refused to get vaccinated are the biggest impediment to ending the pandemic. He implied that some of the resistance to mandated vaccines is based on politics.
"Some of the anti-vaxxers here in this chamber remind me of what happened 400 years ago when people were clinging to the fact that the sun revolved around the Earth. They just didn't believe science. Or 500 years ago when they were sure the Earth was flat," Schumer said.
Schumer said social media has played a role in spreading falsehoods about the vaccine, and "so has the far right." He urged senators to vote against the resolution, sponsored by Sen. Mike Braun (R-Ind.).
Republicans said they are supportive of the vaccine, but that the mandate amounts to government overreach.
"His mandates are under fire in the courts. Main Street job creators are complaining against it, and tonight, the U.S. Senate must send a clear message: Back off this bad idea," Braun said.
In the end, two Democratic lawmakers voted with 50 Republicans to void the mandate, Sens. Joe Manchin of West Virginia and Jon Tester of Montana. Manchin had said in a tweet that he does not support any federal vaccine mandate for private businesses. Tester's office said his opposition is based on conversations with Montana businesses who "expressed deep concerns about the negative effect on their bottom lines and our state's economy during this fragile recovery period."
The White House released a statement earlier this week stating that Biden's advisers would recommend he veto the resolution in the unlikely event it makes it to his desk.
"The president wants to see Americans back on the job, and Americans back at work should not face risk from those who are not vaccinated and who refuse to be tested," the White House said.
Deaths in the United States stemming from COVID-19 are running close to 1,600 a day on average. The overall U.S. death toll less than two years into the pandemic could soon reach 800,000.
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Cerebral autosomal dominant arteriopathy with subcortical infarcts and leukoencephalopathy (CADASIL), affects small blood vessels, primarily in the brain. An abnormality in the muscle cells surrounding blood vessels (vascular smooth muscle cells) gradually destroys the blood vessel cells. This rare, genetically inherited, vascular disease of the brain can cause stroke, subcortical dementia, migraine-like headaches, and psychiatric disturbances. Symptoms usually surface around the age of 45 years. The exact incidence of CADASIL in the United States is not known. There is no specific treatment for CADASIL and therapy usually consists of interventions seen with ischemic strokes. Most patients with CADASIL do not have the common risk factors for stroke and heart attack though these features may be present in some people.
The diagnostic accuracy of genetic testing for NOTCH3 pathologic mutations in patients with suspected CADASIL syndrome cannot be determined with certainty due to the lack of a true gold standard for diagnosis of CADASIL. However, a high percentage of patients in whom CADASIL is diagnosed by clinical methods will have a pathologic mutation on genetic testing. Conversely, pathologic NOTCH3 mutations are not commonly found in unaffected individuals.
The NOTCH3 gene makes a protein called the NOTCH3 receptor protein, which plays a role in the development, function and maintenance of vascular smooth muscle cells. Mutations in this gene lead to an abnormal version of the Notch3 protein that builds up in vascular smooth muscle cells. This accumulation is though to cause the degeneration of these muscle cells, leading to the loss of function of blood vessels in the brain and sometimes the heart.
81406: Molecular pathology procedure, Level 7 (e.g., analysis of 11-25 exons by DNA sequence analysis, mutation scanning or duplication/deletion variants of 26-50 exons, cytogenomic array analysis for neoplasia).
The diagnosis of CADASIL is inconclusive following alternative methods of testing, including skin biopsy and magnetic resonance imaging.
For asymptomatic individuals with a first- or second-degree relative with a diagnosis of CADASIL syndrome and a known NOTCH3 variant, targeted genetic testing of the known NOTCH3 familial variant meets member benefit certificate of primary coverage criteria that there be scientific evidence of effectiveness in improving health outcomes.
Genetic testing for a NOTCH3 variant to confirm the diagnosis of CADASIL syndrome in all other situations does not meet member benefit certificate primary coverage criteria that there be scientific evidence of effectiveness in improving health outcomes.
For members with contracts without primary coverage criteria, genetic testing for NOTCH3 variant to confirm the diagnosis of CADASIL syndrome in all other situations is considered investigational. Investigational services are specific contract exclusions in most member benefit certificates of coverage.
Genetic testing for CADASIL for any other reason does not meet member benefit certificate primary coverage criteria that there be scientific evidence of effectiveness in improving health outcomes or is considered investigational. Investigational services are exclusions in the member benefit contract.
Genetic testing for CADASIL does not meet member benefit certificate primary coverage criteria that there be scientific evidence of effectiveness in improving health outcomes. The proof of presence of this gene mutation does not lead to specific therapy or improved outcomes for persons having this gene.
For contracts without primary coverage criteria, genetic testing for CADASIL is considered investigational and is not covered. Investigational services are exclusions in the member benefit contract.
Currently, no specific clinical treatment for CADASIL has established efficacy. Supportive care in the form of practical help, emotional support, and counseling are appropriate for affected individuals and their families (Muqtadar, 2012; Lesnik, 1992). Four studies were found that addressed the efficacy of potential treatments for CADASIL (Dichgans, 2008; Huang, 2010; Peters, 2007; De Maria, 2014).
Limited relevant primary data on analytic validity were identified. The test is generally done by gene sequencing analysis, which is expected to have high analytic validity when performed under optimal conditions.
Fernandez et al described the development of a next-generation sequencing (NGS) protocol for NOTCH3 and HTRA1 genes in 70 patients referred for clinical suspicion of CADASIL (cerebral autosomal dominant arteriopathy with subcortical infarcts and leukoencephalopathy), all of whom had previously undergone Sanger sequencing of exons 3 and 4 of the NOTCH3 gene (Fernandez, 2015). NOTCH3 mutations were detected in 6 patients on NGS, including 2 mutations previously detected with Sanger sequencing and 4 mutations in exons 6, 11, and 19.
Several retrospective and prospective studies have examined the association between NOTCH3 genes and CADASIL (Moscal, 2011; Lee, 2009; Markus, 2002; Choi, 2013; Yin, 2015; Abramycheva, 2015; Peters, 2005; Tikka, 2009; Dotti, 2005; Joutel, 1997). The results of the clinical validity studies demonstrate that a NOTCH3 mutation is found in a high percentage of patients with a clinical diagnosis of CADASIL, with studies reporting a clinical sensitivity of 90% to 100%. Limited data on specificity are from testing small numbers of healthy controls, and no false-positive NOTCH3 mutations have been reported in these populations. The diagnostic yield studies report a variable diagnostic yield, ranging from 10% to 54%. These lower numbers likely reflect testing in heterogeneous populations that include patients with other disorders.
The clinical specificity of genetic testing for CADASIL is high, and false-positive results have not been reported in studies of clinical validity. Therefore, a positive genetic test in a patient with clinical signs and symptoms of CADASIL is sufficient to confirm the diagnosis with a high degree of certainty. The clinical sensitivity is also relatively high, in the range of 90% to 100% for patients with a clinical diagnosis of CADASIL. This indicates that a negative test reduces the likelihood that CADASIL is present. However, because false-negative tests do occur, a negative test is less definitive in ruling out CADASIL. Whether a negative test is sufficient to rule out CADASIL depends on the pretest likelihood that CADASIL is present.
The evidence for the use of genetic testing for mutations associated with CADASIL syndrome in individuals with suspected CADASIL syndrome includes retrospective and prospective studies evaluating the clinical validity and yield of NOTCH3 mutation testing. Relevant outcomes are overall survival, test accuracy and validity, other test performance measures, changes in reproductive decision making, change in disease status, and morbid events. The clinical validity studies demonstrate that a NOTCH3 mutation is found in a high percentage of patients with a clinical diagnosis of CADASIL, with studies reporting a clinical sensitivity of 90% to 100%. Limited data on specificity is from testing small numbers of healthy controls, and no false-positive NOTCH3 mutations have been reported in these populations. The diagnostic yield studies report a variable diagnostic yield, ranging from 10% to 54%. These lower numbers likely reflect testing in heterogeneous populations that include patients with other disorders.
There may be potential clinical utility for genetic testing to diagnose CADASIL in patients whose diagnosis cannot be confirmed by other methods (clinical presentation, magnetic resonance imaging [MRI] findings, skin biopsy). However, no direct evidence was identified demonstrating outcome improvements associated with genetic testing for CADASIL. A strong chain of indirect evidence cannot be constructed given the lack of evidence demonstrating the potential for changes in management that might occur following a diagnosis of CADASIL. The evidence is insufficient to determine the effects of the technology on health outcomes.
The evidence for the use of genetic testing for mutations associated with CADASIL syndrome in individuals who are asymptomatic with family members with CADASIL syndrome is limited. Relevant outcomes are overall survival, test accuracy and validity, other test performance measures, changes in reproductive decision making, change in disease status, and morbid events. For asymptomatic family members of an individual with known CADASIL, knowledge of the presence of a pathologic mutation may lead to changes in lifestyle decisions for the affected individual (eg, reproduction, employment). However, the impact of these lifestyle decisions on health outcomes is uncertain, and there are no interventions for asymptomatic individuals that are known to delay or prevent the onset of disease. The evidence is insufficient to determine the effects of the technology on health outcomes.
Maksemous and colleagues published a study targeting next generation sequencing identifies novel NOTCH3 gene mutations in CADASIL diagnostics patients (Maksemous, 2016). Patients evaluated were 44 patients with suspected clinical diagnosis of CADASIL previously screened for standard sequencing exons (3, 4) and/or (2, 11, 18, 19) by Sanger sequencing and classified as negative for known pathogenic variants. NOTCH3 Exons custom NGS panel. The results were 6 patients typical CADASIL pathogenic variants identified in 7/44 patients and specificity was not reported.
Annunen-Rasila J, Finnila S, et al.(2006) Mitochondrial DNA sequence variation and mutation rate in patients with CADASIL. Neurogentics 2006; [Epub ahead print].
Buffon F, Porcher R, et al.(2006) Cognitive profile in CADASIL. J Neurol Neurosurg Psychiatry 2006; 77:175-80.
Charlton RA, Morris RG, et al.(2006) The cognitive profiles of CADASIL and sporadic small vessel disease. Neurology 2006; 66:1523-6.
Cumurciuc R, Henry P, et al.(2006) Electrocardiogram in cerebral autosomal dominant arteriopathy with subcortical infarcts and leukoencephalopathy patients without any clinical evidence of coronary artery disease: a case-control study. Stroke 2006; 37:100-2.
Ishiko A, Shimizu A, et al.(2005) Cerebral autosomal dominant arteriopathy with subcortical infarcts and leukoencephalopathy (CADASIL): a hereditary cerebrovascular disease, which can be diagnosed by skin biopsy electron microscopy. Am J Dermatopathol 2005; 27:131-4.
Low WC, Santa Y, et al.(2006) CADASIL-causing mutations do not alter Notch3 receptor processing and activiation. Neuroreport 2006; 17:945-9.
Markus HS, Alberts MJ.(2006) Update on genetics of stroke and cerebrovascular disease. Stroke 2006; 37:288-90.
Opherk C, Peters N, et al.(2004) Long-term prognosis and causes of death in CADASIL: a retrospective study in 411 patients. Brain 2004; 127:2533-9.
Peters N, Herzog J, et al.(2004) A two-year follow-up study in 80 CADASIL subjects: progression patterns and implications for clinical trials. Stroke 2004; 35:1603-8.
Peters N, Holtmannspotter M, et al.(2006) Brain volume changes in CADASIL: a serial MRI study in pure subcortical ischemic vascular disease. Neurology 2006; 66:1517-22.
Peters N, Opherk C, et al.(2005) Spectrum of mutations in biopsy-proven CADASIL. Arch Neurol 2005; 62:1091-4.
Razve SS, Bone I.(2006) Single gene disorders causing ischemic stroke. J Neurol 2006; 253:685-700.
Vahedi K, Chabriat H, et al.(2004) Migraine with aura and brain magnetic resonance imaging abnormalities in patients with CADASIL. Arch Neurol 2004; 61:1237-40.
van den Boom R, Lesnick Oberstein SA, et al.(2006) Cerebral autosomal dominant arteriopathy with subcortical infarcts and leukoencephalopathy (CADASIL): a hereditary cerebrovascular disease, which can be diagnosed by skin biopsy electron microscopy. Am J NeuroRad 2006; 27:359-62.
Yin X, Wu D, Wan J, et al.(2015) Cerebral autosomal dominant arteriopathy with subcortical infarcts and leukoencephalopathy: Phenotypic and mutational spectrum in patients from mainland China. Int J Neurosci. Sep 1 2015; 125(8);585-592.


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Estoria de Espanna – Discovery of the Past
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Benito Pérez Galdós (1843-1920) is widely regarded as being Spain's greatest novelist after Cervantes. The project produced new critical editions of his Torquemada novels.
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A World Astir|Jan 4, 2007 6:08 AM| by: guest
Today's Imperative
What are we to do today? The question arises because every day, almost every one of us thinks, on reading the papers, on hearing the news bulletins on the radio, what a pass the world has come to what a situation for our country! And we lament about the extraordinary state of corruption, irresponsibility and other unmentionable malaises that have crept into our public and individual life. We write articles, we deliver speeches regretting the fall in the standards of our life and so on. But how many of us ask ourselves: "What have I done to prevent this state of affairs? What could I have done to contribute to the betterment of the atmosphere?" Each one of us has a responsibility to maintain the health of the collectivity in which we live. There are problems, and there are bound to be problems in a developing life. Life is not static, it is a dynamic process of evolution, and problems are presented by Nature in order that we apply ourselves, work and take a step forward. In a memorable passage, Sri Aurobindo observes that pain is the hammer of Gods to break a dead resistance in the mortal's heart. But for pain, but for suffering, we would not move, we would be content to live like automatons. That is why the more we are ready to progress, the more the problems presented to us. It is easy to isolate problems as political or economic, and try to find solutions, but in the larger context of life these piecemeal solutions will not work. We have been seeing how, in our country, so many solutions are proposed with all goodwill, but none have succeeded because they are all out of focus. For every problem there is an immediate solution and there is a long range solution. The shortcut wants to tide over the crisis, the long range one to prevent the repetition of such crisis. It puts the finger on the root cause of the troubles. We have to understand from that point of view why problems have arisen in every walk of life including religion and spirituality which are supposed to be areas of harmony and peace. In every country there is tension, in every society there is disequilibrium, in every home there is disharmony. That shows that it is a universal problem and ours is only a local segment of the cosmic problem.
The Synthetic Age
Long ago, about 70 years ago, in a study of the development of human society, Sri Aurobindo wrote a series of articles on the psychology of social development which he later entitled "The Human Cycle". The main thesis of his study is this: In early primitive societies, all over the world the first man, the physical man, the primitive man is face to face with Nature. He is not organised, he feels the impact of the powers of Nature, his pre-intellectual mind senses some mystery about everything; behind the trees, behind the running brooks, over the hills, he senses a presence; behind the activities of rain, wind, the sun and the moon, he regards supraphysical powers and instinctively bows down to them. He calls them gods, deities, angels, and the intuitive mind of that society – because the rational intellect has not yet developed – creates means of communication with these supra-terrestrial powers. There is a companionship between men and gods. Whether in early Greece, Egypt, India, everywhere, the whole system is organised around an interchange, around the system of sacrifice, self-giving. Gods are invoked to descend into man, there is a partnership in the commonwealth of the earth. Everything is symbolic; the plateau, the hill represents existence with the several levels of consciousness. The flame, agni, represents the soaring aspiration in man, the sky and the ocean represent infinity. Indra is the god of mind who showers the luminosity of mind. Varuna comes next expanding the consciousness of man. When man becomes wide enough, there is Mitra the God of Love, because the ancients knew that when man is ego bound, limited, to love is dangerous. So they speak of Mitra coming only after Varuna has established his empire. This is called the symbolic age of mankind. Everything is governed by some deep perception; the leaders of society are not kings but seers, the rishis who see the truth, who hear the truth, satyasruta.
The Conventional and the Individual
Gradually the inspiring truths of life recede and the outer moulds fix themselves: conventions become the order of the day. To illustrate, earlier only he was a Brahmin who had acquired the right by virtue of study; by virtue of purity, to carry and communicate the knowledge of God, knowledge of the principle of life. Later in the succeeding age everybody who was born of a Brahmin became a Brahmin. Thus in the conventional age people started doing things in particular ways because their ancestors did so in the olden days. The truth had receded far behind and so tradition, superstition, dogma, rituals, multiplied creating a completely artificial mode of living. Naturally Nature, evolving Nature, would not allow man to stay there long, so there is revolt on the part of the individual. He begins to ask, "Why should I follow these conventions, why should I not do what I feel to be right? I must have that freedom." So the conventional age is followed by the individualist age when the individual raises the standard of revolt; man insists on living his own life. The most remarkable example of this movement is, of course, the French Revolution. Thus arose the entrepreneur, the capitalist with his laissez faire and there is a great efflorescence, the intellect. The rational mind comes into its own. Philosophies spring up, doctrines multiply. Even then, after a few centuries of this age of freedom we find the individual has messed up things. New problems cropped up following the industrial revolution in England. Thinkers started applying their mind to find out the cause of these disharmonies.
Individuals were given freedom but they did not use their freedom rightly, they started treading upon the toes of their neighbours. So there commenced serious studies to find out the real truth of life, collective life. Karl Marx may be said to be the first serious modern thinker who probed into this question and he came out with his thesis of economic determinism of history. He said everything is determined by economic causes, those who can control the economic resources control the society. What he said was perhaps true in the society in which he functioned, in the industrial society of England with all its abuses. He said there is no God, no such thing as soul, religion is an opiate of the people used to keep them down. All these dicta struck a favourable cord in the downtrodden people. But even then the polish wore off; it was realised that everything is not economics, everything is not bread and butter, there is something more in man. Even if he is clothed well, fed well, he will not be happy; there must be something else. So slowly the solely materialist approach was given the go-by, serious thinkers and those like Bergson, the famous French philosopher, spoke of vital energy, elan vital, life-force, prana as the secret of life. Wherever there is abundance of life-energy there arise civilisations and when that dries up the civilisations come down. It had a few purchasers, but it could not satisfy a humanity which was slowly developing an intellectual mind. So there followed mental analysis, Bertrand Russell and the like who said that mind is the truth, the truth is in the idea, ideals, and they went on to erect their own systems and institutions which too did not work. The most disillusioned thinker who first accepted this mental truth of life was Arnold Toynbee who examined as many as 21 civilisations and spoke of challenge and response. Ultimately, he said the truth is not in the mind, it is in religion. Now even with religions as they have developed as a move for unity, to bring people together, to take man back to God, the moment it got organised, institutionalised it became a force for division. People have, by and large, lost faith in organised religion.
The Spiritual Age
What next? Sri Aurobindo, Teilhard de Chardin and other evolutionary thinkers have perceived that we are now entering into a stage higher than the mental, what we may call the spiritual stage. But before we enter into the spiritual, we see that we are bogged down in what is called the subjective age. We see the roots of life behind the surfaces; at the first approach everything appears chaotic, disorganised, because it goes beyond the mental organisation to which we are accustomed. If you see modern art, modern literature in countries like Russia, Eastern Europe, you will find a consistent effort to probe beneath the surfaces of life. They may call it the unconscious or the subconscious or the subliminal, but they are feelings out below the surface. They are all on the way to the central truth of life – the soul, the spirit. But before this spiritual age can come there are other factors which are pressing upon man today for fulfilment. The individual age has done its work and gone. Today the call is for the universal man to be born; all over the world, in every segment of life, there is a movement gathering in this direction.
Now I would like to narrate a significant happening that took place at the turn of the last century. Somewhere in the nineties a Canadian doctor, Dr. Bucke, was trying to discover new ways of treating his mental patients. Dr. Bucke was fond of literature. He was a colleague of Whitman, Emerson and others, and he used to spend evenings discussing mystic poetry. One evening after discussing the poetry of Wordsworth, Dr. Bucke set off for his country home in his cab. In the midst of a forest he saw a great conflagration, a fire. You know in America there are large forest fires. He thought the forest must be on fire, so he stopped the vehicle only to become conscious that the conflagration was not outside but inside his own self. In a flash he realised all life is one and the centre of life is love. A few seconds of that experience completely changed his life and he went on to write a book called the Cosmic Consciousness which came out in 1902. Five hundred copies were printed, but it took many years to sell them. Today, I believe the book is in the 30th edition. In his remarkable introduction to this book he makes what he calls three prophesies. Mind you, it was written before 1900. He says: In the coming century aerial navigation will bring the world so close together as it has never been in history; nothing can happen in one corner which will not be immediately known in others. Second, it will be a sin to be rich. Third, all the existing religions will disappear; there will be one universal religion in which there will be no intercessor between man and God. These were his three prophesies.
At the moment we are concerned with the first prospect, unification of the world. We are entering into a stage where the individual man has to make room for the universal man. A universal man, visvamanava, as Tagore called him, is not one who just speaks the language of universality; he is one who feels without effort a spontaneous oneness with everybody else, whose heart beats in union with the hearts of others; whose mind echoes the thoughts of others. He can plant his thoughts in other people's minds. The universal man is struggling to be born. In economics, in politics, in social sciences, in religion, everywhere you see there is a cohesive force at work. The United Nations, despite all the bad name that we give to it, has done remarkable service in this direction. The path of wisdom is to make the best use of it and improve it. In literature, in art, everywhere, there is a growing sense of oneness.
Beyond the Ego
The higher mind of humanity has today accepted the inevitability of one world, one humanity. But it is taking time to get translated into practice. Man is not readily accepting the evolutionary challenge of nature to break out of his ego-bound walls of division. Everywhere he asks how it affects him. I may talk philosophy, I may talk religion, but when things affect me personally, my attitude is neither philosophical nor religious. Whether at the individual level or group level or the national level, this obduracy is holding up the progress of everyone. And Nature is trying to shock us into sanity by creating and throwing problems after problems, forcing us to think and act. Everyone has some perception, the truth is pressing upon us so much that everywhere – wherever I have travelled – I have seen that individually people have the right perception that the change has to begin with oneself. Everybody has to change from within. But there it stops. Do we practice? It is easy enough to be on good behaviour on the public platform but the touchstone of sincerity, of our readiness to throw off our egoism, self-assertiveness, is in our dealing with our daily neighbours. It is there that the problem lies. Today's imperative is this: each one has to break out of his ego-walls, open his mind to the winds of thought and change, enlarge his heart, so that the waves of sympathy and love may go out of his being. They speak of open society; I speak of an open individual who is open to the movements and currents of progress. By experience, however, I have found, and people like me have also found, that individually there is a limit beyond which one cannot progress in this dimension. If one wants to reach God, yes, a solitary sannyasin, a recluse, can shoot up, but today a time has come when vertical spirituality, has to be combined with a horizontal spirituality. Sri Aurobindo says somewhere: your love for God is not complete unless you can love God in all. This compulsion to recognise that God is there in the neighbour, God is there in the sinner as in the virtuous, is universal. Our mind knows it somewhere on its top floor, but in our day to day life we fail. In polities, in social affairs, education, religion, economics, do we think of the neighbour? In the international affairs, up to a certain stage nationalism was a healthy force, but today, after two World Wars, nationalism has become a disease. National jingoisms, national chauvinisms are standing in the way of progress. So whether it is at the individual level or at the collective level, personal level or public level, our sincerity is at stake.
Do we really mean to solve this problem? If we do, we have to sort it ourselves. I must make this resolution today: I have to give up my ego. Ego was the helper, ego is the bar. Up to a certain stage in evolution ego was a point of centralisation. Today it is holding us back. To put it more graphically, in the language of an American author, it is a one-man revolution that is the need of the day. No political revolution can give us peace but if each individual is supported by another who carries on the same project, there will be a chain of changing individuals who will form a force for change. There is a subtle link that joins all life, so if I change myself in my corner in the east coast of India, one of you change herein the heart of India, somebody else does likewise in California, there are some points of change which have their consequence. They add harmony as against the precarious balance for suicide. We as individuals have a part to play; we have to change the pattern of our own ego-based life, elevate our consciousness and build conditions in which the individual man gives place to the universal man.
M.P.Pandit
(M.P. Pandit came to the Ashram at a very young age. He is the author of a large number of books and articles on Integral Yoga and the Indian spiritual tradition. He was the Chairman of World Union International.)
(Speech given by Shri M.P. Pandit at India International Centre, Delhi, 1989)
Tags: mp pandit, progress, spiritual outlook
http://Website Pratima Patel
What a beautiful article… It is so appropriate for the whole world, especially now.
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The path, the innocent path tapers off into the distance. It begins the 6 km return trail walk up Bluff Knoll. Not big by easternAustralian, or by foreign standards, with a rise to 1099m, but with a 650m gain, so quite challenging in that though it is short it is steep. It's prominence is 854m (clear rise from lowest contour) and its isolation is 1225.5km with the next comparable peak of that size in the north west of the state.
It was late April 2015, it was warm at the base and I did get a light sun burn on my neck, it was raining half way up, and at the top it was cold and cloud had covered the peak, an amazing weather experience let alone physical challenge for me. Jon, one of my sons, who walked with me was very patient. We managed it well within the 3.5 hours return. The views were fabulous, the flora and fauna, as always, a key interest for me. The summit was worth it.
This is why its challenging, that smooth path of 120m or so turns to this. Still it was well worth it.


text:
Home News Habitat Protection Made Easy Through Partnership Agreement
Habitat Protection Made Easy Through Partnership Agreement
Kasie McLaughlin November 8, 2021 Banner, Conservation Districts, News
Benito area grain farmer John Sandborn recently donated 58.5 acres of pristine woodland habitat to the Manitoba Habitat Heritage Corporation (MHHC) through a Conservation Agreement. The agreement will protect the habitat forever. The Swan Lake Watershed District partnered with John and MHHC to facilitate signing of the Conservation Agreement. The mixed coniferous and deciduous forest is located south of Benito on the north slope of the Duck Mountains. It provides a home to many birds and animals including deer, moose, elk, bear, lynx, wolf and the occasional cougar.
"Originally I visited with Swan Lake Watershed District manger Stephanie Reid in their Swan River Office to get information on a pollinator program," said landowner John Sandborn. "I was interested in seeding a mix of native wildflower and forage grasses to conserve wild bees and butterflies and to boost pollination and yields of the crops I grow. While I was there Stephanie told me about the MHHC Conservation Agreements (CA) program to protect wildlife habitat."
The Watershed District Board supports the CA program as it helps them achieve habitat objectives defined in their integrated watershed plan," said Swan Lake Watershed interim manager Edward Shao. "Partnering with MHHC helps the Board take positive steps toward environmental management and sustainability within the watershed."
"The agreement to protect the habitat would not have happened without the Swan Lake Watershed District," John Sandborn said. "The staff had all the information, they explained the process and what to expect. They made it easy for me. It turned out that my objectives and those of MHHC and the Watershed District were one and the same."
"Manitoba Habitat Heritage Corporation is happy to partner with Watershed Districts in Manitoba to conserve fish and wildlife habitat through voluntary agreements with landowners," relayed MHHC conservation specialist Roy Bullion. "We have the administrative capacity and expertise with conservation easements to help support local Watershed Boards and their landowners."
"With Conservation Agreement donations there is almost always a sentimental connection between a piece of land and a family," said Curtis Hullick, MHHC field manager. "Often there is a desire to leave a wildlife habitat area in its natural state as a legacy. One benefit to habitat donations is MHHC can provide a tax receipt to the landowner for the value of the habitat. A donated Conservation Agreement protects the habitat in perpetuity by an easement registered on the title of the land. The land itself remains in private ownership."
"My Swedish grandfather Johan Sundbom homesteaded the farm in 1910," said John Sandborn. "Three Sandborn generations have conserved the 58.5 acres of forest habitat in its natural state. I got to know this property well as I tended my trapline when I was in elementary school. I feel good about protecting the habitat for the birds and animals in perpetuity. It pleases me to know that my niece, who will inherit the property, is fully supportive of the Conservation Agreement."
Tags:Conservation Agreement, Donation, Duck Mountains, MHHC, Swan Lake Watershed District, Wildlife Habitat


Don't forget, Wild Blueberries are available year round in the freezer section of your grocery store so you don't have to wait until summer time to make these delightful little pies!
Place cupcake liners into a 12-count cupcake tin. Set aside.
Using your food processor, combine the dates, walnuts, oats and salt and process until a coarse sand-like texture forms. You should be able to squeeze the mixture in your hand and have it stick together. Once ready, place about one tablespoon of crust mixture into the bottom of each cupcake liner and flatten out with your fingers so it covers the bottom like a crust (it should be well packed). Set aside.
Using a hand or stand mixer, make the filling by first whipping the cream. Once small peaks form, add the confectioner's sugar and 1 tsp. vanilla and whip again on low until combined. Remove cream from the mixer bowl and set aside. To the bowl add the mascarpone cheese, Greek yogurt, and 1 tsp. vanilla. Whip until well combined. Once well combined, fold in the whipped cream and the frozen Wild Blueberries using a silicone spatula working from the bottom of the bowl and combine well.
Scoop out enough filling to fill each cupcake tin (you may have a bit left over). Place in freezer until ready to eat, allowing 10-15 minutes to thaw. Store leftover pies in the freezer.


Replacement cover to fit the Kids Relax Armchair.
Note: Kids Relax Armchair sold separately.
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Robust knife with V-ground chisel function.
Robust knife with V-ground chisel function. The blade is made from Japanese knife steel, 3 mm carbon steel that has been hardened to 58-60 HRC. The cutting edge has been sharpened with a double edge angle and a final honing on a leather strop. Both the handle and holster are made from super-durable PP plastic. The holster can be attached to both a belt and a button on work clothes. If the belt is thick, the small pin on the cover can be cut away. The holster features a unique function for attaching it around a button on work clothes so that it does not come loose whilst still being easy to remove. Chisel knife STK-PH is supplied with a cardboard case instead of a holster. STK fits in the same holster as heavy duty knife GK.


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"What do sixteen hundred Christian boys think girls should wear? Let's find out!"
Posted by MGK Published in The Internets, WTF
So the Modesty Survey is starting to make its way around the internet, and for me this is a totally alien subculture. I mean, I was raised Catholic, but being raised Catholic in Toronto is not exactly the strictest form of Christian upbringing, to say the least; the only thing you're guaranteed to have is a relatively worldly guilt complex and an appreciation of fish on Fridays. Compared to that, this is… really, really weird.
58 percent of them (and bear in mind the "Christian boys" range from 16 to 35, which is pushing it at the upper end, but whatevs) say that a skirt that falls above the knee is immodest! "That's getting into dangerous territory, especially when they sit down, since it slides up even further." DANGEROUS TERRITORY! Needless to say, 93 percent have a problem with miniskirts. 84 percent say that a bikini is immodest. "If you understood the purpose of publications like the Sports Illustrated Swimsuit Issue…"1 62 percent aren't even satisfied if girls wear a tankini instead; 55 percent can't even handle a one-piece halter-top suit. A thirteen-year-old writes: "They tend to show cleavage and your back is too much of a distraction."2
66 percent say that a shirt with a "lacy, lingerie look" is immodest. 62 percent worry about girls who wear a transparent shirt over a tank top. 76 percent say that "even an inch" of skin between pants and bottom of shirt is a "stumbling block." 65 percent have a problem with girls who have to adjust a bra strap in public. 56 percent have a problem with halter-top bras, which is probably the same people who complained about halter-top swimsuits. "This sounds stupid, but I'll be honest: The strings invite a tug." You heard that guy, ladies! You shouldn't wear a halter-top lest he be tempted to assault you!3
But hey, it's not just clothes the Christian boys are concerned with. 75 percent say that "the way a girl walks" can be a stumbling block. 57 percent are worried about when girls stretch their arms because their chests stick out. 63 percent get tense when a girl bends over and exposes her lower back. 61 percent feel sinful when a girl bends over with her ass towards them, and 76 percent can't handle breasts bobbling up and down when a girl walks or runs.
Really, I know one should feel contempt for the overt misogyny on display here, but really I can't be bothered to feel anything other than pity. These "Christian boys"4 are just so goddamn pathetic, a scream in the night of "I am powerless over my dick":
Sisters in Christ, you really have no concept of the struggles that guys face on a daily basis. Please, please, please take a higher standard in the ways you dress. True, we men are responsible for our thoughts and actions before the Lord, but it is such a blessing when we know that we can spend time with our sisters in Christ, enjoying their fellowship without having to constantly be on guard against ungodly thoughts brought about by the inappropriate ways they sometimes dress.
This sentiment is of course the prevailing one. Sometimes it gets justified in weird ways.
A girl has been given something for which she is responsible. That gift is a beautiful body and mystique which has power over a man, and so in being responsible with that gift, a girl must give thought to men. This is just like how men have been given bodies with a different power – physical strength. A man is responsible for that strength and must not abuse it or be careless with it – be that in the context of other men and children, or with women.
"See, men are big and strong, and we shouldn't hit people. And women aren't big and strong, but they are pretty, so they shouldn't hit people metaphorically with their choice of clothing."
In fairness, when asked what their responsibility is, most of the Christian boys say straight up that it's first and foremost their job to treat women respectfully and not lust in their hearts and do all the things they believe God wants them to do. But that adult sentiment is choked off when you read their scorn for women who "flaunt their bodies":
Yes, you can turn me on, but don't expect me to respect you. Yes, I might find you attractive on the outside, but that won't make me think of you as attractive on the inside. Sure you might get my attention, but it will be negative attention.
Given that we've established that a simple bikini or an inch of skin between shirt and pant gets "negative attention," this guy needs his head adjusted. What really gets to me is that these dipshits put everything in their own context. A girl wearing revealing clothing doesn't get respect because of how she makes the guy feel. These guys keep talking about how they want girls of substance and then demand that "substance" cannot wear sexy clothes; they complain about how hard it is for them not to sin and then request that girls self-police their clothing and behaviour as if the two required equivalent effort.
It's just sad.
Wait, do people actually still whack it to the Swimsuit Issue? I mean, seriously, porn is so easy to get now. What's the point of the Swimsuit Issue? Or maybe we're dealing with people here for whom the Swimsuit Issue is as close as they ever get to porn? Not that they don't have access to porn, but that the Swimsuit Issue is the most they can conceive of porn actually being? Like, they look at the cover of a Vivid Video flick and think "I bet that sinful video has simply TONS of girls in swimsuits lounging around." [↩]
I suppose we should applaud that thirteen-year-old for being able to appreciate the beauty of a woman's back at such a young age. When I was thirteen, I think I would have preferred it if girls were made entirely of tits. Like, foot-to-head. All tits. [↩]
TUG TUG TUG! [↩]
Up to age 35! Forever young! [↩]
it's my own fault for installing WordPress (March 2nd, 2018)
Mastodon, Twitter, and you (or not you) (November 16th, 2017)
Video stores were better than Netflix (October 21st, 2017)
Why I keep being concerned about the rise of streaming services (October 18th, 2017)
Don't Blame PC, Blame Poe (September 16th, 2016)
Matt B said on August 1st, 2010 at 3:17 pm
I wonder if women eating a lollipop in public is considered immodest, or if it's only immodest if Van Halen is playing in the background.
Sage Freehaven said on August 1st, 2010 at 3:40 pm
Those people are seriously fucked up.
Remora said on August 1st, 2010 at 3:47 pm
If it is 16-35, then how was there a 13 year old responding? This young man is lying!
Menamebephil said on August 1st, 2010 at 4:32 pm
There are some very peculiar people out there, it would seem.
I like this article, because it's a window onto a world I have absolutely no knowledge of. I have never met anyone like this in my entire life.
Autumn said on August 1st, 2010 at 4:34 pm
So…what I'm taking from this is that women should be clad from head-to-toe and move around in rolling steel frames that prevent all jiggling and hip-swaying and so on.
…yeah, screw you kids. You started noticing girls. It's called being a teenager. It's your responsibility to deal with your own damn hormones.
Matt Duarte said on August 1st, 2010 at 5:02 pm
I do believe this calls for these people to watch "Every Thing You Always Wanted to Know About Sex (But Were Afraid to Ask)"
I remember watching at an incredibly inappropriate age, and I grew up just fine.
Beachfox said on August 1st, 2010 at 5:59 pm
A thought occurs to me.
1) Men are incapable of controlling their lusts, and the objects of their lusts must be modest to respect that.
2) 'Hate the Sin, Love the Sinner'. The sin isn't in having homosexual urges, but in acting on them.
Thus, all good Christian Boys must dress and act modestly, never doing anything that might portray them in an attractive light, least they lead to homosexuals commiting sin through their inspiration of lusts with their evil sinful bodies.
Klytus said on August 1st, 2010 at 6:13 pm
masculinity is dead
bryan said on August 1st, 2010 at 6:34 pm
I sure do think you're a big man for making fun of a 13 year old that has been brought up to believe some stupid shit though…
ams said on August 1st, 2010 at 6:44 pm
I feel bad for these kinds of guys, so pressured to not appreciate feminine form. I can't even imagine seeing a good looking, leggy woman in a short skirt walking with her hips swaying and feeling bad for liking it.
I feel almost as bad for the women these guys might one day marry. It's one thing to wait until you're married to have sex. It's another thing to wait until you're married to think about it.
Lia said on August 1st, 2010 at 7:54 pm
Why don't these guys just be honest and admit they want women to wear burqas?
reynardine said on August 1st, 2010 at 8:06 pm
Interesting to note that 43% of the respondents to this poll were home-schooled.
John 2.0 said on August 1st, 2010 at 9:00 pm
1. I will henceforth be using the term "stumbling block" to mean "mental image suitable for inspiring a bout of self gratification."
2. Religion is very strange. Who has a problem with miniskirts, but not bikinis?
NCallahan said on August 1st, 2010 at 9:27 pm
What's so strange about a bunch of guys fantasizing girls spend twenty-four hours out of the day worried about them?
As for that thirteen-year-old… he's got eyes. He'll go far. Observant religious teens make the best middle-aged erotic authors. It's like a wine.
Brimstone said on August 1st, 2010 at 9:40 pm
I dunno…. not a Christian, not religious, but it is pretty horrible when you're young and that flooded with hormones
Brimstone, it's fine for them to be flooded with hormones, but not fine for them to put all the burden of those hormones on women/girls to dress and act modestly.
I mean, sorry, but boobs are going to jiggle when you have to run. You have to stretch your arms sometimes to reach something. Women shouldn't have to spend their lives worrying that it'll tempt some guy into doing something inappropriate.
Brad Hanon said on August 1st, 2010 at 10:09 pm
So wait, women's bodies are alluring to men, but men's bodies aren't alluring to women?
Honey, I don't know where you're getting your data, but you seriously need to recheck it.
KenB3 said on August 1st, 2010 at 10:51 pm
I was Catholic and I got like this a little, where I was aroused by women but felt guilty about it. Fortunately my dad, despite being very Catholic and to the right of Bill O'Reilly, never had a problem telling a 12 year old to "check out the knockers on her!" So that balanced out the Catholic teaching some.
Mister Arkham said on August 1st, 2010 at 11:22 pm
Oh balls, I have scarcely ever seen anything so thoroughly awash in the language of Evangelical American culture. I had a lot of good old fashioned Catholic Guilt plugged into me as a kid, but you haven't seen anything until you've spent any significant amount of time in the American South of the Mid-West. As an example:
I once briefly dated a girl who was raised Southern Baptist. She always dressed very modestly, almost to the point of appearing frumpy, and I could never quite figure out why. On a visit to her apartment, she was showing me around and I noticed that she had this closet full of really lovely things that still had the tags on them. I asked why she had never worn them and she said that they made her look "too pretty." I tried to laugh it off and told her that was ridiculous, asking her to try wearing some of the items out to dinner that night. It took some doing, but eventually she went and changed, and about halfway through the meal I told her how nice she looked…
She broke down crying in the restaurant and started calling herself a whore. She kept it up all of the way back to her apartment. When I got her back, she apologized profusely, and I told her that she hadn't done any damage, and I was sorry for pressuring her into wearing something she was uncomfortable with. Three hours later and I got a phone call from her father, who I had never met. I guess she called her folks upset and they pried my number out of her. The man swore at me like a frigging sailor for five minutes, accused me of being a messenger of the devil who had tried to tempt his daughter into sin with harlot's clothes, and told me that if I ever so much as spoke to her again then GOD HIMSELF WOULD SMITE ME.
Jesus. Christ. On. A. Bicycle.
Garminster said on August 1st, 2010 at 11:36 pm
American Evangelism is – aside from Calvinism – probably one of the most dehumanizing form of Christianity. This is only the tip of the iceberg, sadly.
Burrowowl said on August 1st, 2010 at 11:39 pm
"61 percent feel sinful when a girl bends over with her ass towards them"
Only 61%? As an enthusiastically-heterosexual and happily-married Catholic, I can tell you I nearly always feel "sinful" when a young woman bends over with her ass towards me. It's that nice kind of sinful that reminds you that the same God that created the devil to tempt you is a loving God and lets the devil tempt you pleasantly.
Anyhow, many of the folks here are ignoring the sentiment that it is the boy's acknowledged responsibility to manage his own thoughts and actions. The request for women to dress more modestly, though foolish, is just a request to make the internal spiritual struggle a little easier.
Rob Bartlett said on August 1st, 2010 at 11:42 pm
"Wait, do people actually still whack it to the Swimsuit Issue? I mean, seriously, porn is so easy to get now. What's the point of the Swimsuit Issue?"
Well, I think if easy porn had made all masturbatory fodder obsolete, that would be like if microwaveable food made all fresh ingredients redundant. (There's a very good chance guys who eat nothing but hot pockets and do nothing for kicks but surf porn are barely analogies of each other)
To be honest, I actually very rarely surf the net for porn for two reasons. 1) The sites are very ugly and usually not very safe for the hard drive, and 2) The "white noise" factor. Men may be base creatures, but even then, having some kind of foundation of personality can be good. As many men have probably fapped to Jenna Fischer as Tiffany Fallon. Of course, one doesn't tend to equate "SI Supermodel" with "Personality", but should a Bar Rafeli break out, she'll at least rate higher on the algorithm than some heavily made up Camgirl.
Midas said on August 2nd, 2010 at 1:41 am
I've seen a lot of this sort of thinking, being raised as a Christian. I've come to call it "precious moments syndrome", as eventually it results in a home devoid of any decoration aside from crosses and precious moments figurines.
It mostly comes from scared older generations who cannot bring themselves to trust their children not to be swept away by "worldliness". It's the idiocy that leads to homeschooling and an incredibly sheltered life, followed by a massive (and very predictable) rebellion in the later teen years.
It's not the normal hormonal urges these boys are fighting (yes, up to 35 years old, still very much boys), it's a painful lack of socialization and social skills. It could almost be described as parent-inflicted Asperger's.
The really terrifying this for me about this survey is the way the reasoning of the respondents mirrors the reasoning of the men who are arrested in Muslim countries for acid attacks on women who reject them. The same objectification and misogyny is present and active in both cases, and it disgusts me to see it coming from people who claim to follow my God.
CB said on August 2nd, 2010 at 2:15 am
They should move to the middle east.
Mary Warner said on August 2nd, 2010 at 3:20 am
I've lived my entire life surrounded by Evangelical Fundamentalists. I know the culture very well, and I think I have a pretty good understanding of how they view things. But even to me this survey sounds very strange. Most of the Christian boys I grew up with are fully in favour of girls wearing skimpy outfits, or at least they claim to be when they're hanging around with their friends after school (or in school, actually– sometimes they would even talk about it in class). And many (but by no means all) of the Christian girls are perfectly comfortable running around in short skirts and halter tops.
But yeah, there has always been this minority who take the sermons very seriously, and who seem deathly afraid of epressing any sort of sexual feeling in any way.
How was this survey conducted? I assumed that it was an internet survey, and thus anonymous, which is very scary because that would indicate fairly accurate answers. A lot of boys (and girls) would lie on a survey like this if they were talking to an adult or someone from a church group.
I assume there is a self-selection bias. Was this survey conducted on extremely hard-core religious websites? That would skew the sample quite a bit. The broader, more popular types of websites (even if still religious in nature) might give different results. Or maybe not.
I admit I have no connection with the home-school crowd. We never had any in the small town I live in. Nor do I have any experience with the Apostolics and Holiness people I've seen in some nearby towns, who wear black pants and white long-sleeve shirts at all times on the boys, and ankle-length grey dresses for the girls, with white scarves covering their hair. Maybe that's the sort of kid who answered this survey.
Jordjevic said on August 2nd, 2010 at 4:53 am
I grew up in a culture very much like this – Mormon instead of Evangelist, but the emphasis on Modesty is the same, so none of this really surprises me to hear. A lot of it is the brand of rhetoric I'm familiar with, especially the stuff about the body being a "wonderful gift" (a "temple", even) that must be taken care of. I think accusing these people of wanting girls to wear Burqas isn't really fair, because on one hand I don't think anyone on that camp is for going so far as covering pretty faces, and on the other hand that's giving too much credit to the idea that a good chunk of Christians would be able to mentally differentiate Burqas from Islam.
magnuskn said on August 2nd, 2010 at 6:28 am
Wow, do they keep those boys ( and men ) in cages? How do you still grow up like this in western civilization?
NCallahan said on August 2nd, 2010 at 8:17 am
I've seen it mentioned in a few posts above and I don't think the comparison to Catholic Guilt is astute. Catholic morality has, at its heart, that two beliefs that a) you are inevitably a bad person but b) God loves you anyway. So while this can leave you neurotic, it at least has the caveats that it's not the end of the world if you screw up because you ARE a screw-up merely by being human and God is essentially on your side (even if you keep spitting his face, screw-up). You can accuse Catholics of mourning God's love, but at least that acknowledge human nature.
Some of this Evangelical Guilt, though… it's a whole different beast. From an outsider's perspective, it seems to be founded on the principles that a.)God made you perfect and wonderful and b.)that's why he's waiting in the bushes to find an excuse to send you to Hell. If the sin is on somebody else, then you're in the clear, because God is a mean-spirited rules-stickler.
Kirala said on August 2nd, 2010 at 10:32 am
NCallahan: I love that summary of beliefs. What makes it truly terrible is that the "Evangelical" viewpoint is one that any evangelical would recognize as heresy if it were stated explicitly, and yet it still manages to be implicit in a lot of the culture.
As for the survey, as a girl growing up in this culture, I saw these things frequently and deeply appreciated knowing what "tempts" a guy. Still not sure whether I used that information more to dress modestly or to figure out which assets to emphasize…
SmR said on August 2nd, 2010 at 11:06 am
Speaking as an Orthodox Jew who adheres to standards of modesty that are superficially pretty similar to what I'm seeing on this survey – this still makes me really, really angry. To me, modesty is about understanding that physical appearance is not one's foremost asset. I HATE: 1. the nitpicky questions like "Is a v-neck top a stumbling block [ARGH] even if it is not revealing?" 2. the idea that boys' answers should be what dictates girls' behavior. (I have the same problem with Jewish laws of modesty – the fact that they were set by the then-all male rabbinic establishment.) Blaming girls for boys' sins is bad enough, but letting boys dictate the rules of girls' behavior is just scary.
Jer said on August 2nd, 2010 at 11:08 am
Autumn: "So…what I'm taking from this is that women should be clad from head-to-toe and move around in rolling steel frames that prevent all jiggling and hip-swaying and so on."
Or to make it easier the women could just be fully clad from head to toe in some kind of draped fabric – perhaps with only their eyes showing. You know, so you only see a lump of cloth moving around and don't see the jiggling and the swaying. I'm sure there's a name for a garment like that …
Paul Wilson said on August 2nd, 2010 at 11:40 am
I suddenly wish I had the whole Quantum & Woody "nipplege" scene in handy jpg format.
Rawrasaur said on August 2nd, 2010 at 12:43 pm
Is this the thread where people point and laugh at other subcultures for having certain sets of beliefs that aren't the same as theirs? I was afraid I missed it.
LashLightning said on August 2nd, 2010 at 12:58 pm
"When I was thirteen, I think I would have preferred it if girls were made entirely of tits. Like, foot-to-head. All tits."
This is a horrifying mental image that will require trepanning to remove. Thank you.
John 2.0 said on August 2nd, 2010 at 12:59 pm
No Rawr, you're thinking of thread with the anarchist.
Fantomex said on August 2nd, 2010 at 2:59 pm
So you're either a cultural relativist or a Christian with a hilarious inability to recognize the irony of your comment? I can't decide which is better.
Thomas Wilde said on August 2nd, 2010 at 3:00 pm
No, Rawrasaur, this is the thread where we make fun of members of another subculture for having a variety of beliefs that are logically indefensible.
Rebecca said on August 2nd, 2010 at 3:25 pm
I grew up Evangelical Christian and homeschooled, and it's not a homogenized culture. Some homeschoolers who are fundamentalist Christians are like this, some aren't. (Also, old meme.)
The more conservative homeschooled kids that I knew turned out pretty weird. I wonder what they're like now, in their twenties.
Dan said on August 2nd, 2010 at 3:43 pm
I was like those poor boys when I was younger. I like to think I've become a more well-adjusted adult, but I still have a deep-rooted guilt complex.
The problem seems to be that it is difficult to explain to young boys the difference between feeling temptation (which is normal and in most cases a sign of good health) vs. acting on those urges either physically or mentally. It is easier to tell them that any tempataion is wrong and to be avoided just as those who present temptation to you.
Why educate people on self control and respecting others when you can just demonize boobies and everyone who has them.
Boobies aren't evil! (except these ones in this book I once read…)
Evil Abraham Lincoln said on August 2nd, 2010 at 3:54 pm
This has to be a scam, like "Conservapedia": 25% serious survey takers and 75% wiseass Internet commentators.
Adam Farrar said on August 2nd, 2010 at 5:03 pm
That last quote sounds like it's from a serial killer.
Kyle said on August 2nd, 2010 at 5:25 pm
This is the type of shit that leads a high school administration (a PUBLIC high school, mind you) to strongly "advise" the art teacher (me) against showing the students any slides of artwork portraying nudes.
Now, I do believe it is entirely possible, perhaps even prudent given the differing levels of maturity among high schoolers, to present a high school-level art lecture without showing any nudes, but the fact that the rule was in place at all pissed me off, 'cause you just know it was due to some parent flying off the handle years prior.
Also, on the survey's topic of girls wearing skirts versus jeans:
While it may be true that a skirt is more modest than a pair of jeans, a skirt will provide far easier access to the goodies located within.
Rawrasaur said on August 2nd, 2010 at 5:53 pm
Fantomex: Are you saying that all christians are alike or something? I wasn't sure. Secondly, what's wrong with a view of 'live and let live'? Nowhere are they advocating or requiring other people to do things, they are expressing their opinions through the survey. It sounds like you've just got a general grudge against christianity.
Thomas Wilde: I look at it more like 'these many people people don't feel comfortable with this sort of thing'. I don't feel comfortable hanging out with people who like certain types of music. Is that logically indefensible? Do I deserve to be mocked and ridiculed for that?
Joanna S. said on August 2nd, 2010 at 7:21 pm
Actually, growing up as a Catholic in a largely Southern Baptist and Church of Christ culture, where Catholic made up only 3% of the largely Christian population, I have to say that the differences are sharper than many think – to the extent that my fellow Christians often asked me if I had decided to stop my idolatrous ways and accepted Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior….uhhhh, yeah.
But, what makes me nervous about this survey and its responses (I am going to run under the supposition that they are legitimate) is that I have listened to many a friend who has been raped or sexually assaulted using this same sort of rhetoric and these "rules" to somehow make what happened to them their own fault. And so, this truly horrendous act of physical violation gets apologized by the victim under the assumptions that: "well, if I hadn't provoked him with my tank top or short skirt, then this wouldn't have happened. I really am a whore."
So, Rawr, you need to be careful because "live and let live" sometime leads to one excusing some truly reprehensible behavior. It's one thing to want to dress more modestly (for religious reasons or otherwise), but it's entirely another for one gender to set rules on the behavior, clothing, etc. on another because, without them, they seemingly cannot control their actions and blame for that is wrongly placed on the victim. And the underlying message of this survey not "live and let live" for women – it's "these whores better stop tempting us because Jesus can only do so much to stop our 'baser urges.' I mean, we want to respect you, but if you don't stop dressing like whores by showing even an INCH of skin or breathing, then we just won't be able to control ourselves. Amen."
SmR said on August 2nd, 2010 at 7:25 pm
@Rawrasaur: I see your point, but I still object to this attempt at exact statistical measurement of what is/isn't modest.
If you value modesty, teach kids to respect themselves and focus on things other than their body. And sure, have a dress code, put your money where your mouth is. But to make girls feel uncomfortable for every little thing – for stretching, or running – is unfair and sick. If they understand the value of being modest, they'll act accordingly, whether or not their behavior is scientifically defined as "modest".
Also, MGK – if you think bikinis are modest, I'd like to see what kind of clothing you'd define as "immodest".
EWHPTIV said on August 2nd, 2010 at 8:34 pm
At the risk of being the kind of person who links to XKCD, I feel I should bring up both this and this.
I think I've heard the "this kind of thinking leads to that kind of behavior" statements before. Isn't that the same principle behind the government movements to ban violent video games and movies?
Fantomex said on August 3rd, 2010 at 12:13 am
"Are you saying that all christians are alike or something? I wasn't sure. Secondly, what's wrong with a view of 'live and let live'? Nowhere are they advocating or requiring other people to do things, they are expressing their opinions through the survey. It sounds like you've just got a general grudge against christianity."
They're not entirely the same, no. That's ridiculous. They're alike in the whole 'believing in an idiotic myth and basing their sense of ethics on obedience', though.
Not advocating? Oh yes, of course, silly me, the religious never apply their ludicrous standards to nonbelievers. Even if they did, beliefs have absolutely no influence on people's decision making or affect what laws are passed. Clearly I am in the wrong for expressing any sentiment other than fawning admiration towards socially regressive beliefs.
I'm slightly curious how the two sentences I wrote is sufficient basis for your accusation that I have a "grudge". It's almost as if it isn't, and you simply interpret any form of disagreement as being caused by personal bias. See, that's an unfair generalization; now we've both made one.
Katzedecimal said on August 3rd, 2010 at 8:37 am
This isn't the thread where we mock a subculture's beliefs. This is the thread where we see why girls are still being molested, because this kind of buck-passing and refusal to own one's own responses are still alive and well.
Zifnab said on August 3rd, 2010 at 11:11 am
I couldn't help feeling the same way. This survey is either incredibly illuminating – highlighting a faction of Americans who have been completely submerged in Evangelical dogma – or a very deliberate piece of propaganda aimed at both boys and girls to peer pressure them into submitting to Evangelical dogma.
Personally, I'm predisposed to the latter. We saw this kind of propaganda in the run up to the Iraq War, we saw it in the 2000 election recount where the coverage would make you completely forget exactly who won the popular vote, we've seen it in the abortion debate, we've seen it in the Shirley Sherrod / NAACP scandal.
You doctor up and cherry pick information, splice it together as a form of propaganda, and widely distribute a very opaque and biased piece of information as scientific consensus.
I, for one, have some seriously deep suspicions about the honesty and accuracy of this survey. When comparing it to real life experience, growing up in a moderately conservative upper middle class lily white Texas suburb, it's the same sort of leaflet I recall seeing that claimed having sex after the prom would give me Chlamydia and that condoms had a 50% failure rate. I call bullshit.
wsmcneil said on August 3rd, 2010 at 1:49 pm
Rawrasaur wrote:
"I don't feel comfortable hanging out with people who like certain types of music. Is that logically indefensible? Do I deserve to be mocked and ridiculed for that?"
No, and no.
However, if you then suggest that your discomfort is anything other than your own problem, or that your discomfort gives you the right to insist that those people should alter their behaviour and stop listening to that music, then yes, and yes.
The underlying theme from the results of this survey is not merely that these boys/men are uncomfortable with the squishy feelings spotting a bit of curvy female skin gives them. The implication is that it's the girl's fault. To insist that it the girl's responsibility to change her behaviour when the boy's religious culture leaves him psychologically incapable of coping with his own sexual urges is indeed logically indefensible, and ridiculous.
And yes, those who publicly express ridiculous opinions should expect to be publicly ridiculed.
Rawrasaur said on August 3rd, 2010 at 3:10 pm
I agree that insisting that women change their behavior is ridiculous. Where in the survey are they insisting that it is the women's responsibility to change their behavior?
Skemono said on August 3rd, 2010 at 3:21 pm
Sisters in Christ, you really have no concept of the struggles that guys face on a daily basis. Please, please, please take a higher standard in the ways you dress.
A girl has been given something for which she is responsible. That gift is a beautiful body and mystique which has power over a man, and so in being responsible with that gift, a girl must give thought to men.
And of course the entire survey is the men talking about women's attire and behavior, thereby putting the responsibility (and blame) on them.
Honestly, did you even read this post?
I always thought of insisting as "You must do this" and not "Please do this." It seemed like a request to me.
Fantomex said on August 3rd, 2010 at 6:41 pm
A request? In what society do you see the religious make "requests" that everyone follow their rules? Where those requests are free to be turned downed without any form of negative consequence. Every post that you've made has been either a defense of these morons or a demand that people not criticize them.
Why? Just, why? I'm genuinely curious.
ladypeyton said on August 3rd, 2010 at 10:32 pm
[[wsmcneil wrote:
..Rawrasaur wrote:
"I don't feel comfortable hanging out with people who like certain types of music. Is that logically indefensible? Do I deserve to be mocked and ridiculed for that?"..
However, if you then suggest that your discomfort is anything other than your own problem, or that your discomfort gives you the right to insist that those people should alter their behaviour and stop listening to that music, then yes, and yes. ]]
Not only that but the whole thing implies that there is something deficient in the women who do *not* meet their standards. That those women would somehow deserve not being respected which of course leads to victim blaming if something does actually happen to someone who does not fit their closed minded description of respectability.
stavner said on August 3rd, 2010 at 11:35 pm
One word: Butters.
Candlejack said on August 4th, 2010 at 11:47 am
No, you're right, Rawrasaur, they aren't insisting women change their behavior. They're just giving notice that, should women continue to show skin, reach for things over their heads, or run without having their boobs strapped down, they will view those women as terrible harlots unworthy of the slightest respect.
Similarly, we're not insisting they change their views, we're just giving notice that we think they're pathetic misogynists unworthy of the slightest respect.
If you've got no problem with them pointing down their arms and screaming "Whores!", I don't see why you've got a problem with us laughing down our sleeves.
Gloria said on August 4th, 2010 at 3:07 pm
@Candlejack: "[…] I don't see why you've got a problem with us laughing down our sleeves."
As a certified harlot, I'm not EVEN WEARING SLEEVES.
StupidGirl said on August 4th, 2010 at 3:13 pm
"This sounds stupid, but I'll be honest: The strings invite a tug."
Jesus invited a tugs all the time. Then they burned him.
Bunny said on August 5th, 2010 at 12:16 am
This reminds me of my mother in law telling me [a long story I won't repeat] that basically ends in how we keep making women responsible for men's behavior, and this is just another example. My sister is in a cult that does this crap. No swimsuits, only long skirts, pants are evil, five kids they can't afford for Jesus. She wasn't allowed to be alone with her now husband for any amount of time while they were dating.
65 percent have a problem with girls who have to adjust a bra strap in public.
If that's a problem, maybe locking yourself in a mental ward and staying there would be good? This isn't even something a girl has control over half the time – bras are uncomfortable a lot and they shift. This is creepy.
Badficwriter said on August 6th, 2010 at 1:30 am
Women in short shorts bending over pointing their asses at you ARE causing sinful thoughts! Just today, I explored my vestigial lesbianism by letting myself be tempted to look. It was indeed enjoyably sinful.
Ex said on August 8th, 2010 at 1:53 am
Rawr: are you playing the devil's advocate, or just trolling? Figured I'd ask.
I refuse to consider the possibility that you're posting seriously, though.
Jim said on August 27th, 2010 at 5:09 pm
Jeans more immodest than any skirt? Well I suppose so, at least judging by the fact that I'm a guy and I almost always think any given woman looks better in jeans. Even very short skirts somewhat conceal a woman's shape, while most jeans accentuate it.
As for modesty, I say schmodesty! Guys too. I think most of us are overbearingly modest in our own clothing choices.
RealTime - Questions: "What's the difference between pop culture and subcultures?" said on December 1st, 2010 at 10:06 am
None of you business said on April 17th, 2012 at 10:33 am
How dumb!!! So basically we need to be covered up like Muslams (no offense to Muslams!). And we can't go swimming, because boys can't handle seeing girls in swimming suits! Plus this article is so sexist!! "See, men are big and strong, and we shouldn't hit people. And women aren't big and strong, but they are pretty, so they shouldn't hit people metaphorically with their choice of clothing." STUIP!!!! I'd like to have a nice "chat" with who ever made this!!
jack said on July 2nd, 2012 at 9:50 pm
im 14, catholic, i go to church everyday and i believe in god… and these fags have no life!!! i couldnt live without girls! seriously, fuck those homos haha
(im a guy) yeaa these douches are trying to blame girls for their horniness and blue balls lol "dont wear hot stuff so we dont get tempted" if you want to ruin your life buy not having any fun dont blame everyone else for why youre a deppressed fuck lol
Emma120182 said on January 24th, 2013 at 11:28 pm
Omg even I am a christian girl and even I think this is a bit extreme! I mean come on I feel sinful if her butt is towards me?! Is a man that incapable of controlling him self I mean geeze if I see a hot guy I don't get all nervous when he walks past they r lame
physicsandwhiskey said on March 13th, 2013 at 2:22 pm
I was one of the guys involved in setting this thing up back in the day. That long comment — "Sisters in Christ" blah blah blah — was me.
Looking back, I can't believe how stupid I was. We were all raised to believe that modesty was the female responsibility to prevent men from "stumbling", so it seemed perfectly natural to host a massive survey inviting sexually frustrated homeschool teens and disturbingly prurient old men (hint: responses go a lot higher than 35) to provide "loving direction" to women of all ages on exactly what turns us on. Because, after all, it's the girl's job not to turn the guy on.
So utterly stupid and harmful.
Kimberly Russo said on July 2nd, 2013 at 5:22 pm
Your criticism against how Christians dress makes me wonder how you must dress. I don't believe you are a Christian or you might actually understand what those men were talking about. Listen, I used to wear pants and dress wickedly, but then I got saved and I want to please God with how I dress now. Every time I see someone scantily clad it makes me sad. Why do girls need to dress so provocatively? What are they trying to prove to everyone? That they have no self respect?? Because that's sure what it looks like. And I honestly believe that if you want to dress confidently then you'll cover up so you don't have to worry if your behind or your chest is hanging out.
Mohammed Ali said on July 24th, 2013 at 5:45 pm
The Bible never said to judge men like, implying that they are "tempted" to "attack"? What? These foemeanist girls are pathetic. So is using profanity like saying damn. The Bible never said to jail men for compliments. They have misquoted the book of Proverbs to try to justify that and socalled "correctness".
Marvin said on July 24th, 2013 at 6:12 pm
Dont worry we might feel the same way about you, you might not deserve the slightest respect for insulting us by having the audacity to call our compliments, "harassment". Everybody on here is going to give account on judgement day for what they typed, including having the nerve to call us "pathetic" "misogynists". Death of femininity is what happened ladies ceased to dress like ladies and dress like two-bit flusies. Womens baser urge is to pass judgement on men,their compliments,whistles,etc. disturbly prurient old women. Disturbingly judgemental women here. They should have focused more on keeping the sabbath holy and pleasing God and Jesus than focusing on being selfish and getting men to admire the cleavage of their bosoms on Sunday which is not the day to profane by doing this and wearing pants at church is unladylike too.


text:
Lawsuit Highlights Complaints of Angry Dell Customers
By Tom Spring
Laurie Earhart, of Waynesboro, Pennsylvania, takes good care of her credit rating. So she wasn't surprised when Dell offered her zero-percent financing on the $1063 Dell 1500 Inspiron laptop she was planning to buy.
"The salesman and the Web site stated, 'pay no interest for 12 months'," says Earhart. With no interest to worry about, she recalls, spreading payments over 12 months would have had little impact on her family's tight budget. She took advantage of the offer, and she says the Dell laptop was everything she could have hoped for. But soon, Earhart's honeymoon with Dell ended.
In January 2007, Earhart received her third monthly statement from Dell and was shocked to see $162 in finance charges. The company had applied a 12 percent interest rate to what she still owed on the notebook.
When she called to notify Dell of what she was sure must have been an error, the representative told her it was no blunder. The company now believed Earhart's credit rating to be insufficient, according to the rep. "I told them I had excellent credit and it must be a mistake," Earhart says. But, she adds, the rep insisted she would have to pay the higher interest rate.
Earhart was steaming mad. She paid off the entire laptop to avoid further finance charges and complained to the Better Business Bureau in Texas, where Dell is located.
With the help of the BBB, Earhart later received a refund from Dell on all financing charges.
Lawsuit Targets Dell Customer Beefs
Earhart wasn't the only customer to see a promised zero-percent interest rate jump overnight.
Casey Henry of New York City saw the interest rate on her $1150 Dell desktop leap from zero to 27 percent. When she complained, the company offered her $200, but refused to reduce her interest rate. Henry declined the $200 and returned the PC she'd bought months earlier. With the help of the BBB, she received a full refund from Dell.
Last month, New York Attorney General Andrew Cuomo filed a suit (PDF file) against Dell and its financing arm, Dell Financial Services, alleging fraud and false advertising. The suit, filed May 14 in Albany County Supreme Court, alleges that, in addition to raising interest rates, Dell repeatedly failed to provide timely on-site repair to consumers who purchased "on-site" service contracts. It also charges Dell with perpetuating numerous other deceptive business practices, such as failing to make good on rebate offers.
In many of the complaints to Cuomo's office and to the BBB and in PC World's interviews with unhappy Dell customers, a similar story emerges: When people asked Dell what happened to their promised zero-percent financing, the company offered no initial apology, claiming either that the low interest rate given to them was a mistake or that the low rate was available only for a few months--not for the year or longer some customers say they were promised.
Dell Denies Charges
Dell and DFS deny the charges in the lawsuit. "Our customers remain our top priority at Dell. We will vigorously defend ourselves in court," a company statement says. "We are confident that our practices will be found to be fair and appropriate. While even one dissatisfied customer is too many, the allegations in the AG's filing are based upon a small fraction of Dell's consumer transactions in New York. We are committed to providing a positive experience to all of our customers every day."
Dell and DFS refused requests for an interview, but pointed out that complaints sent to the BBB by New York consumers were down 28 percent in 2006 compared to the year before. And all U.S. complaints about Dell to the BBB declined 12 percent over the same period. The figures were confirmed by the Texas BBB.
A drop in Dell PC sales may have accounted for at least part of the drop in complaints. According to data from market research firm, IDC, U.S. sales of Dell computers dropped 12 percent from 2005 to 2006.
Currently, Dell and DFS's status with the BBB is in limbo as the BBB updates Dell's records to reflect the New York lawsuit against them. However, the company remains a BBB member and has responded to every complaint brought to it by the BBB on behalf of consumers.
DFS is not a member, but it still has answered all of its complaints, says Karrie Hurt, president and CEO of the Central and South Central Texas BBB.
On-Site No Shows
Charlie Smith of Fairport, New York, says he's so fed up with his experience with Dell that his next computer will be a Mac. In February 2006, he bought a Dell desktop and paid an extra $171 for a warranty that included "at home services" for his desktop.
"I was told that this warranty would cover everything and anything that might go wrong with the PC," Smith says. Within weeks, the PC started having intermittent trouble recognizing the USB ports and both the CD and DVD drives.
Smith says within a month he clocked nearly 12 hours on the phone with calls to Dell tech support. When he finally insisted that a tech come out to his home and fix his PC, a Dell rep told him that Dell wouldn't be able to fix the problem because it was a software issue. Worse, Smith says he was told that if he wanted any more help to fix the problem, he would have to pay an additional $100 for a warranty that covered software issues.
Smith was livid. He refused to buy the extra software warranty and shot a letter to Dell, with a copy to Cuomo's office. After coaxing from the New York Attorney General's office, Dell sent a technician to Smith's house, Smith says. He says the technician admitted the PC had a hardware problem. Ultimately, Dell replaced the entire system four months after Smith purchased the PC.
Why Dell?
As infuriating as these stories sound, though, some analysts and even consumer advocates say they are surprised by Cuomo's suit. They say Dell has taken steps to improve the service it offers and has been fairly responsive to consumer complaints.
"The suggestion that Dell set out to intentionally deceive consumers, as the lawsuit contends, does not ring true with the reality that Dell has been in the process of adding resources to its services capability," wrote Goldman Sachs stock analyst Laura Conigliaro in a research note to clients.
"We are a bit surprised to see the lawsuit," says the BBB's Hurt. She says DFS has significantly reduced the number of days it takes to resolve complaints brought by the BBB on the behalf of consumers.
In 2006, DFS took 19 days on average to resolve complaints brought to it by the BBB, compared with 28 days in 2005. Dell, on the other hand, slipped in the time it takes to resolve a complaint: This time increased to 25 days in 2006 from 23 days in 2005. However, the average time it takes any company to resolve a complaint is 25 days, Hurt says.
Representatives at the New York Attorney General's office say the fundamental merits of the case are based on systemic problems that New York consumers are having with Dell and DFS and not on how quickly the companies respond to complaints.
The lawsuit also alleges that DFS incorrectly billed consumers for cancelled or returned orders. And it claims that Dell used defective refurbished parts or computers to repair or replace consumers' equipment.
According to the attorney general's office, it has received hundreds complaints about Dell since it filed the lawsuit. New York consumers who wish to file complaints against Dell or Dell Financial Services should contact the attorney general's Consumer Help Line at (800) 771-7755 or visit a dedicated Web site set up to accept complaints at www.NYAGDell.com.
Another option for Dell customers is to work with the Texas BBB. Hurt notes, however, that the BBB can't promise the resolution it works out with any company will fully satisfy the consumer involved.


Facts available to huhuonline.com revealed that the marriage of top actor, Femi Adebayo and his Kahdijat Bukola has hit the brick wall.
The blissful marriage of the couple began to experience turbulent several months ago.After several reports made the rounds that the actor has been involved in secret affairs with the leading actress who featured prominently in the Yoruba movie Jenifa (a village prostitute who got admission to the University in the City) 1 and 2, Funke Akindele. Femi Adebayo is the son to the ace actor Adebayo Salami (Oga-Bello) who was formerly the Association of Nigeria Theatre Arts Practitioners (ANTP) national President.
Before things finally degenerated to this level, there have been several reports making rounds about how Femi sent Khadijat packing with three children after several efforts by and concerned friends and relatives to reconcile the embattled couple failed. Khadijat now presently live with her parents at Ikpe road, GRA Area, Offa, and Kwara State. The University of Ilorin Graduate of Computer Science huhuonline.com gathered has been abandoned and left to cater for three kids. The embattled woman also has to face the reality of getting a job for the upkeep of the children, unlike when she lived happily with her husband as a full house wife, to take proper care of the kids.
A source further hinted huhuonline.com that several efforts made by Khadijat to be reconciled with her husband have yielded no result. There were situations she sent text messages to Femi about the crises in their marriage and he need to make up a couple. Such text messages a source informed are forwarded to by Femi to the mobile number of his father, Chief Adebayo Salami, which one way or the other always gets to other members of the Adebayo's family, Khadijat's family, we discovered, has not been happy with Femi's father and mother the way they have handled the crises between the couple. They believe Oga Bello as an authority in the Nigeria movie industry should have called both his son Femi and Funke to order, rather than watch them, a situation that has adversely affected the marriage which has resulted in constant feature in the media, leading to an eventual crash. This ugly trend has caused more damage than truth. On his part Oga Bello has denied any knowledge of the relationship between and Funke. He said he's not aware that his son, Femi is having an affair with Funke Akindele.
It was further gathered that Khadijat recently drank a toxic substance believed to be poison as a result of frustrations when the heat became seemingly unbearable for her sometime in September 2009. She was then taken to an undisclosed hospital. The crack in the matrimony became more obvious when Femi was spotted lodging at a popular hotel in Ibadan, with reports getting to wife that her husband was sighted at some fun spots with his new love Funke Akindele. Femi and Khadijat started well while dating; they were University of Ilorin students. Then, Femi was studying Law, which the soft spoken devoted Muslim studied Computer Science. It was gathered that the fact that Femi was Khadijat's first love has made it difficult task for her to live without him. When the going was good, Femi apart from being an actor and a caring father also had a thriving Law office where he handled a few legal matters on properties and importation, while Khadijat kept the homefront going, taking care of the kids. Meanwhile, the relationship between Femi and Funke has continued to raise a lot of reactions amongst actors and actresses who are privy to how the two love birds relate on movie locations, and there have also been several situations when Funke had challenged some actresses who are close to Femi and who she often threaten to deal with.
However, with disturbing stories like this, one would simply say most Nigerian actors and actress lack character and dignity and they stand in contrary to what their profession stands for (correction of societal ills). Incessant stories of spousal abuse, divorce, recklessness etc are often emanating from their end. It would be recalled that the circumstances surrounding the death of Monsurat Omidina (Omoladun_Kenkelewu) was also entangled with strands of protracted arguments and beating by Tunde Omidina (Babasuwe) her husband which arguably led to the death of Moladun. Also Lilian Bach was enmeshed in a husband snatching scandal recently. In another development Ronke Ojo (a.k.a. Oshodi-Oke) who got married to Sylvester Omogbolahan Anthony (an auto dealer) on January 24, 2009, also witnessed a crumbled marriage in October 2009, with the husband giving reason for the separation on grounds of infidelity; this is one too many.