Liverpool won 2-1 away to Spurs and they have a good record at home to Tottenham. The Reds have found some form lately and this is a must win home game against a Spurs side who I think will struggle to match Liverpool's intensity. Van Dijk to mark Kane out of the game and Liverpool to win.
Manchester United return to Premier League action and need to win this game. They have lost their last two games with a defeat at Arsenal in the Premier League followed by a loss to Wolverhampton Wanderers in the FA Cup. They are currently fifth in the Premier League but only two points outside of the top four and that Champions League qualification place. They are undefeated in their last 12 league games, not losing since August. Two of the last three league games at Old Trafford have ended in draws and they can't afford to drop more points this weekend.
Watford have an appalling record against Manchester United with the last 16 games against them ending in one win and 15 defeats. They are eighth in the league and only a point behind Wolves in seventh. A Europa League place next season is still possible if they could finish seventh or win the FA Cup. It's possible their minds may be on the upcoming semi-final against Wolves and they regularly struggle when playing the top sides away from home. That's illustrated by recent losses away at Liverpool and Manchester City conceding eight goals. Go for Manchester United to get the win here.
Switzerland continue their bid for EURO 2020 qualification on Tuesday. The Swiss have already secured a play-off spot for the tournament after an impressive Nations League campaign and they look to have brought that form forward after opening 2-0 win in Georgia on Saturday. Switzerland have only failed to qualify for one major tournament since the 2002 World Cup and reached the last 16 in Russia last summer so are favourites for a top two spot in qualifying Group D, which also includes the Republic of Ireland and Denmark.
Denmark have had some recent success of their own. A round of 16 exit to finalists Croatia in the 2018 World Cup was one of a few respectable results the Danes tallied up over the tournament – another being their 0-0 draw in the group stage to eventual winners France. Kasper Schmeichel, Christian Eriksen, Kasper Dolberg and Yussuf Poulsen are some notable names to have been called up to the most recent squad by manager Age Hareide, who has been in charge of the team since 2016.
Bookies make Switzerland the favourites here, but given Denmark's recent results – the Danes have not lost a competitive match in 90 minutes since 2016 (W9 D8) – we prefer a bet on goals for this game. Switzerland's matches see plenty of them and even without star man Xherdan Shaqiri and forward Haris Seferovic, who scored a hat-trick in their last home outing against Belgium (a 5-2 win), they were still able to score two away to Georgia over the weekend. Notably, Denmark's impressive defensive form has largely been on their own turf – the Danes have kept a clean sheet in just two of their six qualifiers on the road since 2017.
Despite having a more than competitive squad to choose from, Austria put in a disappointing showing in the World Cup 2018 qualifying campaign. They eventually finished 4th in the group behind Serbia, Republic of Ireland, and Wales. Thursday marks the beginning of their attempt to make amends for this poor performance, and it begins with one of the toughest matches of the lot.
Austria and Poland can easily be considered the two favourites for the top spots in Euro 2020 qualifying Group G, with the likes of Israel, Latvia, Macedonia, and Slovenia not really expected to put up much of a fight. With that in mind, this home match against their fellow contenders could prove the difference between finishing 1st and 2nd.
Fortunately for Austria, their form has improved since that ill fated World Cup qualifying campaign. They have won eight, drawn one, and lost three of their 12 matches since that qualifying period ended, and that includes impressive wins against Uruguay, Russia, and Germany. Admittedly their recent losses away to Bosnia-Herzegovina and Denmark were poor though, which means their home form could be crucial in the coming year.
Poland aren't in great form at all though. They did manage to make it to Russia last summer, but group stage defeats to Senegal and Colombia made their World Cup campaign a short one, and things haven't improved since then.
They have failed to win any of their six matches since, drawing with Italy, Republic of Ireland, and Portugal and losing all three of their home games. Despite having one of the world's best strikers in Robert Lewandowski, they have netted just five goals in this period.
On Thursday they come up against an Austrian side who have kept a clean sheet in five of their last seven home games. However, the hosts' aren't exactly a free scoring side themselves. This has resulted in a number of low scoring affairs, with 11 of their last 17 home games seeing fewer than three goals scored.
Poland are similarly cautious when on the road, with all but one of their games since the World Cup seeing fewer than three goals. This makes backing Under 2.5 Goals look a good value option on Thursday.
Eintracht Frankfurt has earned 8 Points from their last 4 Home Games, Scoring 8 Goals and Conceding 5 Goals. Nurnberg has earned 0 Points from their last 4 Away Games, Scoring 3 Goals and Conceding 8 Goals. Eintracht Frankfurt to Win.
Though not a big return I see value in this odds as Nurnberg is at the bottom of the table while Frankfurt is 5th. The latter has no defeats in last 5 games for Bundesliga and has exited Inter from UEL last week. Nürnberg has no wins away and just 2 draws in 12 games.
Crystal Palace recovered from their 3 – 1 loss to Manchester United with a similar win over Burnley and they will be keen to extend the same favor to Brighton, who saw off bottom side Huddersfield Town 1 – 0. Both sides have three wins, and a clean sheet apiece in their last five matches but while Palace have a loss, and a draw, Brighton have two losses, which makes them the underdogs in this case. Palace have 11 goals in their last five matches, that is, three more than Brighton but they will be seeking a first home win in three matches after a draw and a loss in the last two. Palace have not had an entirely comfortable run at home in the Premier League; they have one win in the last six, and only four in the last 15 so their work here will be well cut out. They will however look at this as a winnable clash, with Brighton carrying a six game winless run away from home in the league, having lost five of those. In 27 away matches in the league, Brighton have managed just two wins. The two sides have each picked two wins in the last six meetings. Two of the six matches have ended goalless and Brighton have failed to score in three. The last three meetings have each yielded over 2.5 goals. In 18 meetings in total, Palace have won six and Brighton seven.
Southampton are just a point away from the safe zone and will need a win from this clash so badly to rise from the region while Fulham are a little deeper in there will need more than just a win in this game to be able to rise from the drop zone. At 17 points, the west London side is eight points off and theirs is a more complicated journey towards survival. In the last eight matches, Fulham have suffered seven losses, while they have two wins in the last 15 matches and though both sides come to the game on the back of losses in their most recent outings, Southampton will be more confident heading to the clash and will be happier playing at home. In their last seven league matches, Southampton have managed nine points, while in the same number of matches, Fulham have managed just three points. In their last eight home matches in the Premier League, Southampton have managed at least a goal, but in the same run they have no clean sheet. Fulham too, have no clean sheet in the last eight matches, and have failed to score in two. From the outset, we expect both sides to hit the back of the net here, as with very little to lose and all to gain with a win, the two sides are expected to play it open, going for a win. Fulham have conceded two goals or more in each of their last eight matches and their defence will be under a lot of scrutiny in this clash. Fulham have managed four wins in the Premier League this season; one of those came against Southampton and they will be hoping for a double here but they have lost three of the last four to The Saints while three of the last seven meetings have ended in draws.
Girona had lost six league and cup games in a row before traveling to Real Madrid. Everyone expected them to lose but they came away with a shock 2-1 win. That took them to 15th and four points above the relegation zone but they have to build on that result. The previous ten league games had produced just four points They have gone six home league games without a win and failed to score in the last two. The more you look at their stats, the more incredible that win at Real Madrid becomes. Home form has seen just two league wins all season and only Valladolid have scored less home goals then Girona. Eight of their 12 home league games have had under 2.5 goals scored in them including the last six.
Real Sociedad are seventh in the league and only a place and two points behind the final Europa League position. They are in good form at present with no defeats in their last nine league and cup games with no losses this year. There are a few teams in La Liga who draw far too many games and Real Sociedad are in that club. They have drawn four of their last six matches. Only one of their last five away league games have been won and three of those saw them fail to score. Four of the last five league matches have seen under 2.5 goals scored and that's the tip for this match.
Without the pressure of European competitions and being in a big day comeback after the transfer of Piatek from Genoa, AC Milan aims to occupy the last podium, but also the win of the Italian Cup. For now, things are going well for 'rossoneri,' and Gattuso is getting more and more credit from fans. Not undefeated for two months at home, AC Milan will cheat with one of the bands who are trying hard to avoid relegation.
Benfica did not have a very good experience in the Champions League but did just enough to drop to the Europa League, where they have started well and get to face Galatasaray when on a six – game winning run and are seemingly scoring without much trouble. Benfica have two losses and 12 wins in their last 15 matches. They have just one loss in the last 10 Europa League matches, and that came on post match penalties, to Sevilla in 2014. Their return to the competition had a good welcome with the win over the Turkish giants. This match will prove tough for Galatasaray. After their poor show in the Champions League, they dropped to the Europa League but they don't have a very good history to show here, and getting to this game on the back of a home loss will not work well for them. In the last seven Europa League matches, Galatasaray have won none, while they have one win in 12. Away from home, they have one win in the last six and no win in the last three. They face a Benfica side unbeaten in the last four Europa League matches at home, and having scored at least two goals in each of them. Indeed, Benfica have one loss in their last 20 Europa League matches. The Portuguese side has three wins in the five meetings they have had with Galatasaray, while the Turks have won two.
Although Chelsea has a very good home record in all competitions and also against Man Utd in H2H at Stamford Bridge, I have to take United at this price. Since Solskjaer took the helm of the Manchester United side, they went on a 11 games unbeaten streak (10W 1D) in all competitions, which ended last week in the Champions League against a PSG side. United haven't won at Stamford Bridge since 2012, but Solskjaer has already turned around so many things and I hope for another one today.
Doncaster have won 3 and drawn 2 of their last 5 matches played, and sit 6th in League 1 winning their last match played 3-0 at home against Southend. Doncester have won 9 drawn 5 and lost 2 of their 16 home league games played this season, and beat Oldham 2-1 at home in the the last round of th FA Cup. Crystal Palace have won 2 drawn 2 and lost 1 of their last 5 matches played and sit 13th in the Premiership drawing their last game played 1-1 at home against West Ham.Crystal Palace have hon 4 drawn 2 and lost 7 of their 13 league away games played, and beat Tottenham 2-0 at home in their last round match in the FA Cup The last time these two teams met was in the Championship in 2011/12 season where Doncaster did win this fixture 1-0 and a 1-1 draw away. Doncaster have scored 32 goals at home this season, Crystal Palace have scored double the amount of goals away from home this season than at home. I am taking Crystal Palace to win this match today.
Rapid Wien have struggled to keep hold of any consistency through the winter break and we've only seen them end a winless streak as they beat Triglav 5-2, after seeing a 2-5 loss to OB and a 1-1 draw against Horsens in late January and early February, respectively.
Inter Milan away from home should not be worried too much by a useful side in Rapid Vienna and in their current attacking form they look the best of this pair.


I found that all my views have come from exploring two simple questions, one of which is "Why is there something, not nothing?". This seeming paradox has been brought up in many threads, including the cosmological argument for God, but they all seem like rationalizations. So I noticed the question presumes there is something. What if there wasn't? What empirical difference would that make? While difficult to get past the bias that there needs to be something, it turns out there is no difference.
It seems the position is a form of "Ontological Relativism" or possibly "Relational Realism". I want to explore this view, but can find little if any references to how I envision it. What it is NOT is an epistemological stance or idealism or any other stance where reality supervenes on mind or concepts. Things exist only in relation to something (anything) else. There is no objective existence of anything, thus solving the problem of why existence exists. It doesn't. Humans don't matter at all. The moon exists in relation to Earth, even if there was no life to observe it.
So I started with something like Ontic Structural Realism, except without the objective realism. The universe is a mathematical structure and things within it are real to each other. It is not platonic realism. Numbers are abstract (not real) to us, but relate (are real) to each other. 7 exists in relation to 9, or to the set of integers, but our universe is not existent in relation to them any more than numbers are real to us. 13 is prime, and doesn't require objective existence to be prime. Similarly, we don't require objective existence to relate to other parts of the structure. This is a key concept, demonstrating why objective ontology (or lack of it) makes no difference in the relations between different parts of the same structure.
This is a spin-off thread from a side discussion in Wayfarer's thread on particle-wave duality.
I think I'd like to take this offline and start a new thread since it only has small bearing on Wayfarer's OP. The relational QM bit was very relevant, and is a good answer to the OP, but what I'm pushing here goes way beyond the confines of QM, and thus seems off-topic. I want relational everything.
I guess it was far longer than a day or two, but I wanted to attempt some research first. I found some dubious leads. The Stanford entry on Relativism doesn't really go into it. It's mostly about relativism of morals, aesthetics, truth and such. There is section 4.2 concerning conceptual relativism, but it seems to be again a form of idealism on concepts, not necessarily mind.
I found a Q/A on the Research Gate site.
We need to draw a clear line between ontology and epistemology. Ontology regards the existence of facts and objects, while epistemology regards whether we can know them or not, and if objectively or subjectively.
OK, I am on track with that one. We're not talking epistemology.
Ontologically, either you're a realist or an anti-realist. Either you accept facts are real independently of the "human mind" (realist), i.e. objective, or you accept that reality is only subjective (anti-realist).
Here I must disagree, and this seems to be the point of my OP here. He says the only alternative to an objective reality is one relative to (or supervenes on) human mind. How very anthropocentric. Ontological relativism means relative to anything, but not supervening on that thing.
By "objective" here, do you mean "absolute"?
On your view, numbers seem to have an existence independent of matter (and mind) which would qualify as Platonic realism about universals.
I agree that absolute/relative is a different axis to realist/anti-realist (objective/subjective). Einstein's theory of relativity is a realist theory, for example.
The fact that the question can be asked rules out the possibility of there not being simply nothing. There could be no empirical anything if there were not anything to begin with. And it turns out that in order for someone to be around to even ask this question relies on there long having been a causal sequence that seems inextricably interconnected with what exists now.
That doesn't allow for the unreasonable effectiveness of mathematics. Mathematics is predictive in the sense that it enables you to know things about the Universe which you would otherwise not be able to know. Why this is, is another matter, as Wigner points out. But Einstein also mused that 'the most incomprehensible thing about the universe is that it's comprehensible'.
There is a difference, since you exist.
I am having trouble distinguishing this 'clear line' between epistemology and ontology vis-a-vis this mathematical structure and you would need to explain this further. The problem I am having is that mathematics is our way of interpreting the world and not that mathematics itself exists outside of us. It is a useful heuristic we created to translate the patterns of physics and nature using numbers. This physical reality exists independent of you and I, but for you to claim this physical reality is a mathematical structure imposes the very invention of describing the universe you seek to avoid and thus quasi-empirical, particularly since mathematics is limited in articulating all possible realities in a cohesive formal system. Is realism and constructivism mutually exclusive? I have my reservations with mathematical realism and you would need to do somewhat better, however alluring Tegmark or Plato are.
Absolute, sure. I mean as opposed to exists-in-relation-to, not as opposed to 'subjective'.
Platonic realism says they have absolute or objective existence in a third realm of abstract things. The relativist view says they are real only to each other. This is independent of matter, sure. Something like the color red (universal) has existence under platonism, but is probably not independent of mind/matter since the 'red' is pretty meaningless outside that context. I explored platonism (lower case) for a while, but it is still a position of absolute reality.
This view is not the objective/subjective axis either, so your initial comment is relevant. Absolute/relative is the axis in question here. Einstein's theory of relativity works on all sides of the objective/subjective axis, so it doesn't necessarily seem to be a realist theory. It is a relational theory, but not an ontological one. Time is relative to a reference frame, and there is no absolute time. Similarly, I am proposing that ontology is relative to something, but not anything in particular. It is not limited to being relative only to consciousness, but that is one valid thing to which the relation can be expressed. Idealism is a subset of relational ontology.
This Leibniz question of 'why is there something rather than nothing?' it seems can't be answered unless we first agree on what precisely is meant by the terms 'nothing' and 'something.' As for the idea of 'nothing', the very act of giving it a name -- i.e. a 'mathematical structure' -- seems to render it as 'something', in an abstract sort of way. And talking about it at all implies some 'state' that can think and talk about it, therefore denying its nothingness. In a sense the question could be reframed as: why is there something that can conceive of 'nothing vs something' as opposed to there not being anything that can conceive ... aka 'the hard problem' and hence the attempt to resolve it with Idealism, positing the primacy of Mind.
Buddhism addresses this seeming paradox, or dilemma, with its revelation that emptiness, or formlessness, or no-'thingness', is not other than form, which seems to imply an ontological primitive that must account for both, but then is unwilling to apply a name to whatever that is, perhaps recognizing that language, being a subject/object modality, is inadequate to resolve the apparent duality.
What I'm getting at here in a very cursory sort of way, is elaborated upon in the following blog post, which is surely of relevance and interest here: The Inconsistency of Nothing. Subjective or Objective?
What is "real", and is "reality" which must be for us, the same as the "real".
How we know what we know must precede what we know, even if what we know provides the conditions for how we know.
Ontologically, either you're a realist or an anti-realist.
So why not a 'real' Mind that emanates its 'real' ideations, being in essence not-two, as per Idealism?
Thank you all for responding to my thread.
So I noticed the question presumes there is something. What if there wasn't? What empirical difference would that make? While difficult to get past the bias that there needs to be something, it turns out there is no difference.
You are presuming the very bias of which I spoke in my quote taken above. This view stands in opposition to that premise, so asserting it is just begging a different position. Demonstrate why it leads to contradiction, without at any point presuming this absolute realist premise.
Let us presume for simplicity a single-world deterministic interpretation of QM and a monist interpretation of mind. In that view, the universe is a 4D mathematical block structure, but not one requiring absolute existence. A person in that block is a worldline, and there is another worldline for an apple. The person worldline is a series of states, and a state has no experience. Thought is a process, and process is the difference between states. So the person-worldline in this structure would have the exact same experience in an existing structure as it would in the same structure without absolute existence. The structure is no different, only the ontology of it, and the experience depends only on the difference between states within the structure, not the ontology of the structure itself.
No, it doesn't turn out that way at all, and for you to reach that conclusion, my conclusion is that you're confused somewhere along the line.
There is of course something. There's you and I, and the world which we inhabit, and everything in it. This is known, at least in part, empirically. I can see people and other stuff.
If there was nothing, however, I wouldn't see people or other stuff or anything at all, because there would be nothing there to see. It would be impossible.
You can call it "bias", but it's what I know. What we have here is another case of what philosophy can do to you: make you doubt what you know - which is not a good thing. My advice: resist it. Don't let yourself fall into the trap.
I exist in relation to my thoughts. "I exist" (in any absolute sense) does not follow from that. This is pretty straight-forward relativism, except it is ontology this time, a topic rarely covered. Usually it is about morals or aesthetics or something. But a relativist would say that just because it is not objectively wrong to do act X, it doesn't follow that it isn't wrong. I still bear responsibility for doing X in the context in which X is wrong. Similarly I exist in relation to my thoughts despite absence of absolute existence.
Tegmark did a pretty good job of demonstrating how our universe could be nothing more than such a mathematical structure. I think he then went a bit into Plato territory and presumed the existence of this structure. Not sure of this, since the structure itself is all that matters, and that doesn't change with ontology. A square still has 4 equal angles whether it has platonic existence or is just abstract.
Well, it has a name relative to me, but it isn't a mathematical structure. Nothing is the lack of anything. There is no thing that has objective existence, not even the fact of there not being anything. Not only is the set of things that exist an empty set, but that set itself doesn't exist.
And talking about it at all implies some 'state' that can think and talk about it, therefore denying its nothingness. In a sense the question could be reframed as: why is there something that can conceive of 'nothing vs something' as opposed to there not being anything that can conceive ... aka 'the hard problem' and hence the attempt to resolve it with Idealism, positing the primacy of Mind.
We are talking about it in the context of this current Earth state which part of the structure that is this universe. I've attempted to illustrate just above how that is not impossible just because the structure itself exists no more than does the square that nevertheless has relations.
Will read the post, and hope it contains the sort of analysis that attempts to demonstrate the inconsistency for which I am seeking.
What is real for us is each other and the moon, but none of that is just 'reality' since that is not a relation, so they're not the same.
Try to say it fast!. Kindly rephrase a bit. Got lost there. Sounds like an argument I might have expressed in opposition to idealism.
'Realist', unqualified typically refers to the position that there is an existence independent of human mind. Anything else would need qualification, so idealism is 'realism of mind', and a theist is a realist of God, and a presentist is a realist of a preferred present.
Those are all relational observations. Subjective observation has zero access to absolute reality, else platonism would not be philosophy, but would be empirically verified one way or the other by noting if something like numbers actually exist.
The nonexistent structure would still have those relations. There is something to see.
You can call it "bias", but it's what I know.
Isn't that what a bias is? You know it, but can't demonstrate it without presuming it. I've given examples of how structures have relations independent of their ontology. To assert that an abstract square does not have right angles unless instantiated seems to be just that, an assertion that is a different interpretation. Show why it is a contradiction of logic for the angles of an abstract square to be right angles, or why the analogy is invalid.
How we know what we know is epistemic (the starting point as Descartes showed), it must precede (in time) what we know, our ontology, but once we have decided on our ontological stance, then we can understand how it formed the conditions of our epistemology.
Yes, I see what you mean. In terms of Idealism it seems it can only be resolved by positing a 'real' Mind that emanates 'real' ideations, which immanently exist whether or not there is a finite locus of mind as its subject -- or in other words, a human locus of Mind, or a bird locus, or a locust locus, etc, etc.
I think the assumption "there is nothing", would need to be supported, and this would be impossible to support. All the evidence indicates that there is something, therefore "there is something" is a more sound premise than "there is nothing". And, "there is something" is the premise which supports the cosmological argument.
Aristotle explains in his Metaphysics, that when we separate the potential for existence from actual existence, and realize that the potential for a thing necessarily precedes that thing's actual existence, then the inquiry as to why there is something and not nothing is to question something in which the answer is necessarily inaccessible to us. It is a futile question because we cannot grasp "the potential for existence" except through the analysis of what actually exists, and this requires the assumption that there actually is something. To assume simply the potential for existence, is to assume nothing, and this leaves us with no premise to proceed from. This is why we must start with the premise "there is something", and the appropriate metaphysical question, he says, is the question of why there is what there is, instead of something else.
This post has two components, one is an attempt to sketch the construction of a ridiculously inclusive mathematical object which serves as the background 'model of things' in the OP, and the other attempts to situate what an ontology is in relation to the ridiculously inclusive object.
If you take any particular, there will be various different types of relation that apply to it. Every event can be related to any other event through the relations of antecedence and subsequence - occurred before and after interpreted as an ordering relation. Each proposition can be related to every other proposition through the relation of consistency partitioning arbitrary well formed logical formulae into consistent and inconsistent models. I think it's reasonable to posit that every particular can be related to every other particular in some way, and all relations can be related (and so on).
Imagine that we have access to the set of all particulars and every n-ary (generalised) relation between them (a construction similar to this but allowing 2-morphisms to map to 1-morphisms and introducing such 'cross' relations of arbitrary order and scope). This collection is a mathematical abstraction, but let's say that all of its elements are as real as any other, and every concrete particular and every relation between concrete particulars and abstract particulars (including all higher n-ary relations thereof) is contained within it. This is essentially the universe as considered in the OP. It's a jumble of everything in the broadest possible (or at least ridiculously broad) mathematised sense of a jumble of everything. Unsurprisingly that kind of object is not well understood.
in terms of giving an account of this 'everything', nothing about the properties of this giant jumbled object is determined by any insistence that the whole object exists. Rather, the properties of any subobject are determined conditionally upon their relation to any other subobject. In the giant jumble object itself (assuming we're allowed recourse to true and false as binary...), they'll be partitioned into subobjects consisting of obtaining relations of other subobjects and non-obtaining ones. If it is possible to construct (or assume there is) a choice function (or collection thereof indexed to subobject types) which acts on the giant jumble object in order to select every and only obtaining subobject relations, this gives a model of what there could be in terms of a sense of what obtains about it.
Unfortunately, the task of ontology is not to decide whether the giant jumble object exists or does not exist, it is to filter what obtains (questions of relation) and how/why it does so. In this formal sense a question of whether something exists in any sense is really only answerable to the sense in which it operates - Pegasus and a stick operate differently, who cares what we call existent and not, the operational difference suffices. Ontologies give fundamental ways of structuring questions about (and thereby elucidating) chains of relations and usually have their own native problematics. EG Heidegger's ontology isn't an ontology of dynamic ontical changes - and concerns the relation of human and Being, Democritus' atomism doesn't place much emphasis on the emergent relations of composites -it's concerned with the fundamental constituents of stuff, Hegel's doesn't place too much emphasis on the realities of social change - it's a historico-logical syntax of ideal development... Russel spent a lot of time dealing with fictional objects as problems for reference as a fundamental issue, others are indifferent to this problem - seeing fundamental issues as conceptual clarification with philosophical language as the medium for that clarification. It's conceivable that someone, perhaps like Jordan Peterson, would stress the reality of Pegasus in terms of its mythical-discursive structure - the relation between human and myth holds indifferent the contrast between Pegasus and a rock.
They all contain within them an idea of appropriate emphasis on what the fundamental questions are - the filter - and an account they deem appropriate (or at least in the right direction) for those questions [the constructed choice function].
Ontology neither begins nor ends with a decision on what exists, it concerns itself with the hows and whys of those things. So when you say 'it doesn't matter whether it exists or it doesn't' - you're missing the sense of why in question. Even if it doesn't matter there's still a hell of a lot of work to do interpreting the thing.
What empirical difference would that make? That question does not make sense. If there is empirical evidence, then there is something. If not, then there could still be something that is not evident empirically. Being quantified by the senses does not give some thing existence. Experiences are representations of things and are not necessary for the existence of those things.
How can relativism say that there is nothing more than some thing (like a mathematical structure)? It seems to me that in order for relativism to hold true, then the mathematical structure would need a non-mathematical structure in relation to it to exist and to say that it is a mathematical structure. In other words, relativism leads to an dualistic infinite regress. Realism does not seem to have that problem when it implies a final cause.
Any time you talk about some thing that exists independent of our senses you are implying that it has an objective existence. By Tegmark claiming that everything is nothing more than a mathematical structure, he has implied that the mathematical structure is not dependent on other things to exist, then it must have an objective existence. In order to say that nothing is objective, you'd have jump head-first in the the bottomless pit of infinite regress.
If things need other things to exist and those things are defined by their relationships with other things, why would relationships themselves be excempt from this rule? Wouldn't relationships need the existence of non-relationships to exist as relationships?
Even if they are, why does that matter? There's something nevertheless, and something is distinct from nothing.
I can make reasonable inferences based on what I observe and what I know. That's what I've done, and that's why I reject your conclusion. I see little reason to talk of numbers or Plato.
That doesn't make any sense. You're committing the reification fallacy by talking about a nonexistent structure as if it exists. There would be no structure whatsoever, and nothing to relate to. There wouldn't be anything, there would be nothing. If there is something to see, then it can't be nothing. So what are you talking about? Something or nothing?
No, not by definition. I suspect you already know that, but if not, then look it up.
Well, I'm a foundationalist, because I think that being a foundationalist leads to a picture which can best reflect reality. Starting from a foundation, I can demonstrate a thing or two.
A concept is not the same as an instantiation. What do you want to talk about? The concept of nothing, which I have no problem granting has relations, or nothing, for which there would be nothing to relate to anything, as there would only be nothing. There could only be nothing.
I'm just being logical here.
What could I have possibly done wrong to deserve this? Now the next point the premise "that there is something" supports the cosmological argument. You still agree?
I have returned. Can't be online all the time.
This sounds reasonable. Suppose I have decided on a relational stance on ontology. From that I am forming the conditions of our epistemology.
I would have perhaps worded it as "Not anything is", and I'm not asserting it, but just asserting the viability of it.
But that evidence is based on only relations, so the premise of "there is something" is unfounded since the same empirical evidence is had in either interpretation.
Well I guess this is quite different then, because it now appears like you are allowing for the actuality of things, but there is a property or attribute which is referred to with "is", that you are denying as unreal. I would assume that "is" refers to being at the present, and you are saying that nothing could actually be at the present. This is very reasonable, because the present is very much unsubstantiated and it doesn't appear likely that it could support things. For instance, every time I say "now", by the time I finish saying that it is in the past. So it seems very unlikely that anything "is" at the present, because that which is supposed to be at the present would always disappear, instantaneously, into the past.
I don't know what you mean by this, "based only on relations". I think a relation requires things that are related, and the recognition of the things is prior to the recognition of the relations. In other words we must acknowledge that there are things, before we can acknowledge that there are relations. Therefore it is impossible that there is only relations. So I would argue the exact opposite of what you are saying. Evidence that there are relations is based on the premise "there are things". Therefore the conclusion "there are only relations" is invalid because "relations" requires necessarily, that there are things which are related..
Pretty much agree. That the universe is a mathematical structure (and is not merely modeled by one) is not new. The latter half seems to be what I've been exploring, and one which I have not necessarily seen litterature, let alone even a name for the stance.
Good so far, but the particulars you speak of here are components of the structure. The structure itself seems to be neither a particular nor a universal. Earth exists as a particular within my simplified uni-world QM model. It exists in relation to the structure, although not completely. It has no absolute coordinates for instance, only relative coordinates, and for that reason it is arguably a universal of sorts. I probably digress from where you're going with this.
I think I followed that, even if I could not have written it.
Examples of elements in the jumble to remove the jargon - rocks are in it, the relationship between rocks and hills as 'currently rolling down' are in it, the relation between 'currently rolling down' and every possible physics-based description are in it, the individual rock's relation to every physics-based descriptions are in it, the rock's relationship to the mathematical abstraction of a group are in it.
OK. I have only an objective description of the mathematical abstraction, so the B-series wording seems more appropriate. "The rock is rolling down the hill at time X" is better than the use of 'currently' which carries implications of time not being part of the abstraction, but something within which the abstraction exists. The whole idea is that the fundamental abstraction doesn't exist in any deeper abstraction.
OK, "Everything" is just a tautology then. Of course. But what if that list is empty, and there isn't even a list? So poorly answered. Mine was simply that it makes no difference, at least not to the relations.
Unfortunately, the task of ontology is not to decide whether the giant jumble object exists or does not exist, it is to filter what obtains (questions of relation) and how/why it does so. In this formal sense a question of whether something exists in any sense is really only answerable to the sense in which it operates - Pegasus and a stick operate differently, who cares what we call existent and not, the operational difference suffices.
I didn't quote your entire post, but it doesn't sound like you're trying to disagree with this view, but attempting to formalize it and see where it fits into works done by several others.
This makes sense. I've had my ontology expressed as a version of existential quantification, but I'm not sure if that term applies to the sort of structures of which we might be a part. So there is still ontology, but it isn't able to be simplified to "what is there?".
I think I'm also saying that existence of things is not necessary for the experience of those things. Only a relationship between the experiencer and the experienced. Without the experiencer, relationships might still exist between things, but experience-of isn't one of those relations. The moon still caused tides without humans to experience that, but those prehistoric tides never existed in relation to human experience.
I didn't say that. I don't say the structure is, since there is nothing for it to be in relation to.
Just non-idealistic existence, but the negation of objective existence is not existence necessarily in relation to our senses. I pointed this out in my second post.
They don't need other things to exist since they don't exist. The structure simply has these relations, and those relations are independent of the existence of the structure.


Petrified Forest, AZ – Park Superintendent Lee Baiza announced that visitation for March increased by 31% from last year with 52,149 visits compared to last year's 39,835. The year to date total is 92,085 which is up by 3%.
Weather on the Colorado Plateau can be very unpredictable especially in the spring. This March saw a warming trend with temperatures in the 70s throughout the region and the nicer weather helped to increase visitation.