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Why Award Flights From or Through the UK are Anything But Free
Nick Ewen
One of the biggest misconceptions about award travel is that all your flights are completely free. If you've been collecting and spending points and miles for a while, you know that this is far from true. Today, TPG Senior Points & Miles Correspondent Nick Ewen takes a look at the notoriously high taxes on flights originating in the UK.
Planning an award flight on British Airways? Be prepared to open up your wallet!
Just a few weeks ago, I received an email from a good friend who is finalizing a trip to see another friend in Cape Town, South Africa. She was looking to book a one-way flight using her American miles but was confused about the pricing of these awards:
"Nick! I need your help. I just went on to buy my one-way flight home from London, and it is listed at 20,000 miles BUT they also want over $300 in taxes?!? This flight is for Saturday Jan 9th from LHR–> PHL. Is this normal? This is on the AA website. I have already purchased my one-way to London on AA and it was 20,000 miles and $5? Can you please help!"
Unfortunately for my friend, American's website was spot on. So today, I want to go through why you'll need to fork over a large amount of cash when traveling out of the UK.
There are many of moving parts to this equation, but in simplest terms, there are three main sources of added fees to award tickets that depart from or travel through the UK:
Government-imposed duties
Airport fees
Carrier-impossed surcharges
It's essential to understand the difference between these so you'll know exactly what to expect the next time you redeem miles for a flight that leaves from the UK.
Flights originating in London carry a relatively high tax burden. Photo courtesy of Shutterstock.
1. Air Passenger Duty (APD)
The first charge is imposed by the government. The United Kingdom Air Passenger Duty went into effect on November 1, 1994, and you can read complete details on the UK government's Excise Notice 550. It's actually charged to any aircraft operator who flies paying passengers out of a UK airport, but commercial airlines will pass it on to the customers at the time of booking. The amount for which you're responsible is based on two factors: your class of travel and the distance you're flying. Here's a chart with that information:
Destination Bands
Premium Economy, Business or First Class
Band A
(0 to 2,000 miles)
£13 (~$20)
Band B
(Over 2,000 miles)
£73 (~$111)
£146 (~$222)
Fortunately, these charges are not imposed on infants without a seat, nor are they applied to children age 11 or younger traveling in the economy cabin (as of May 1, 2015). Starting March 1, 2016, this waiver will be extended to children under the age of 16. However, all passengers with an assigned seat traveling in premium economy, business or first class are responsible for paying the APD.
The first component of the formula (travel class) is relatively straightforward. If you're flying in economy, you'll pay the lower amount. If you're booking in premium economy, business or first class, you'll pay the higher amount.
The distance aspect of the formula is a bit more complicated. For starters, any itinerary that originates in the UK will incur some APD, regardless of the final destination. This includes itineraries with solely domestic flights, those with a domestic flight connecting to an international flight and all international flights.
However, to determine how much you'll pay, it isn't as simple as figuring out how long your flight is out of the UK, nor is it calculated by using the total distance you travel. Instead, it's based on the distance between London and the capital city of your final destination on the ticket after you complete all connecting flights. If that distance is 2,000 miles or fewer, you'll fit into Band A. Anything more than 2,000 miles will be subject to the higher fees in Band B. You can find a complete list of these cities in Appendix 1 of the above linked page.
The UK government generally views flights as "connected" (its term) for the purposes of determining APD if the connecting flight leaves within six hours for domestic flights or 24 hours for international flights. As a result, a flight from Glasgow to Jersey (via London) would incur an additional fee of £13 if the connection is longer than six hours, since your itinerary is treated as two separate departures from the country:
The flight with the longer connection doesn't have a higher base fare; it's the extra APD.
Meanwhile, a flight from Glasgow to Amsterdam (via London) would only incur an additional APD if you stop in London for more than 24 hours.
This 24-hour rule is also used when connecting in other countries. Let's say you wanted to fly from London to Beijing. If you build in a stopover of more than 24 hours in just about any city in Europe, you'll wind up paying the lower (Band A) APD. However, if your connecting flight leaves within 24 hours (or you connect in the Middle East or Asia), you'll get hit with the higher amount.
Unfortunately, you may find yourself paying APD on some flights that start in other countries and connect through the UK as well. The key benchmark is that six-hour connection rule. For example, if you used American miles to fly from Zurich to Edinburgh (via London) with a short layover, you'd pay ~$72 in taxes & fees:
However, if that layover was extended to more than six hours, you'd then become subject to the APD:
For complete details on all of the ins and outs of the Air Passenger Duty, be sure to check out the Excise Notice 550 page on the UK government's website.
2. Passenger Service Charge
The second added fee to flights departing from or connecting through the UK is a charge for departing from or transiting through British airports. You're required to pay this on all tickets that originate in the UK, as well as all itineraries that connect through a UK airport. Again, this isn't an added surcharge by the airline. Airports actually charge airlines for the facilities used by their passengers, and like the APD, these costs are then passed on to customers.
New check-in areas and improved shopping and dining in UK airports are financed in large part by passengers. Image courtesy of Shutterstock.
The nice thing is that these charges are constant across all classes of travel, so you won't get gouged for booking a premium award. However, these charges vary significantly depending on the airport, destination and routing, and I couldn't find a comprehensive list anywhere (here's the corresponding page of the UK Civil Aviation Authority — as you can see, it's essentially useless).
Here's a sample of what you'd pay for nonstop flights to the US from various UK airports:
Passenger Service Charge
London-Heathrow
£42.06 (~$64)
£12.80 (~19)
As you can see, London-Heathrow is the biggest offender, but you'll still pay close to $20 when traveling out of all other airports.
Things get a bit more confusing with connecting flights. Let's go back to my friend's flight from London-Heathrow to Philadelphia on January 9. For the nonstop flight, she'd incur a £42.06 Passenger Service Charge, or roughly $64. However, if she were connecting to that flight, the charges are different:
From Edinburgh: £43.34 (~$66)
From Manchester: £43.52 (~$66)
From Amsterdam: €42.98 (~$48)
Even from the less-trafficked airports like Gatwick and Glasgow, the Passenger Service Charge can still be a decent chunk of change (especially compared with flights originating in the US).
Many airlines tack on fuel surcharges to award tickets that actually have nothing to do with the cost of fuel.
3. Carrier-imposed charges
The third and final category of additional charges (and most nefarious, I might add) consists of fees imposed by the individual carrier. These could be related to anything, but the most common type of fees added by carriers are fuel surcharges. This is not specific to the UK, such as the previous two categories, as many frequent flyer programs will charge these fees for award tickets on a variety of airlines. However, the two main British-flagged carriers (British Airways and Virgin Atlantic) are two of the worst offenders out there.
Let's stick with my friend's example above. On January 9, there are three nonstop flights from London-Heathrow to Philadelphia bookable with American miles. One is operated by American while the other two are operated by British Airways. Here are the fuel surcharges added to the flights on British Airways metal:
Economy: $124.30
Business or First: $205.20
If you book the flights on American metal, you avoid these fees entirely (though you'll still need to pay the APD and Passenger Service Charge).
Although I'm sure we all enjoy Virgin Atlantic's Clubhouses, we don't enjoy the fuel surcharges they add to award tickets.
Virgin Atlantic is neck-and-neck with British Airways when it comes to these additional costs. Here are the fuel surcharges it adds to a one-way award ticket from London-Heathrow to New York-JFK:
Economy and Premium Economy: £81.50 (~$124)
Upper Class: £134.50 (~$204)
What makes matters even worse is that these charges apply not only to flights out of the UK, British Airways and Virgin Atlantic tack them on to all award flights.
Back in December, TPG reader Donald asked about these charges, wondering how British Airways justified these fees given the declining price of oil. Unfortunately, there isn't really any rationale from the consumer point of view. If they were honestly tied to the price of jet fuel, we would see more carriers following Qantas' lead and cutting these as the price of oil drops. Sadly, that isn't the case, as carriers like British Airways and Virgin Atlantic have recognized the additional revenue these charges generate on award tickets while simultaneously decreasing the revenue they need to report on paid tickets. A win-win for the airlines is a lose-lose for consumers.
Fortunately, there are ways to avoid these onerous fees, so be sure to check out Jason Steele's post on avoiding fuel surcharges on award tickets from last year for complete details.
To modify a quote from my freshman economics professor, "There's no such thing as a free award ticket!" Image courtesy of Shutterstock.
The points and miles hobby can be an incredibly rewarding one, but for those of you who think we travel the world for free, think again! Government taxes, airport fees and carrier-imposed surcharges can take a big bite out of your bank account when booking award flights, and flights involving the UK are among the worst offenders in this regard. Although you can get creative with avoiding fuel surcharges, the Air Passenger Duty and Passenger Service Charge you pay for departing from or transiting through a British airport are here to stay, at least for the time being.
What are your thoughts on these charges?
Nick Ewen is TPG's Senior Points & Miles Editor and was one of the site's first contributors in 2012. He's visited 41 countries (and counting) and has taken his four-year-old daughter to 19 of them.


Besides being a historical city of Nepal, Biratnagar has also gained reputation as being the second largest and main industrial city in the kingdom. Moreover, it prides in being the industrial and commercial center of the Eastern region. Half a century ago, before 2007 B.S, large and medium scale Industries were already established here. With the proliferation of industries and commerce, there arose the need for a coordinating body that would bring all commercial activities under one umbrella.
With the establishment of democracy, MORANG MERCHANTS' ASSOCIATION was born in 2008 BS (1951 AD).
i. From its inception MORANG MERCHANTS' ASSOCIATION has continuously maintained its aim & objectives.
ii. To protect the rights and promote the interests of trade & industries in the district.
iii. To promote and maintain unity and harmony in the industrial and commercial community.
iv. To function as an advisory body, regarding the financial policies and programs in the country.
v. To provide up to date information regarding trade and commerce in the district and also at the national level.
vi. To establish cordial relationship with national and international similar organizations.
vii. To issue certificate of origin for export items.
viii. To arbitrate between disputes in the industrial and commercial community.
ix. To represent the community in Governmental and non-Governmental organizations.


Beautiful in the city, yet trail-ready tough, our 2019 Chevrolet Colorado ZR2 Crew Cab 4X4 is ready to perform in Black. Powered by an impressive 3.6 Liter V6 that boasts best-in-class 308hp while connected to a responsive 8 Speed Automatic transmission for a fantastic performance you crave. This Four Wheel Drive provides near 25mpg on the highway plus its Off-Road mode lets you conquer rough road conditions with ease and offers ultimate confidence. Rugged and refined, our ZR2 features black beltline moldings, a black rear bumper, daytime running lamps, an EZ lift, and lower tailgate, and prominent wheels.


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Germany charges man with spying for Iran
BERLIN (AP) — Prosecutors in Germany say they have indicted an army employee with spying for an Iranian intelligence service.
The federal prosecutor's office said in a statement that the German-Afghan dual citizen is charged with "a particularly serious case" of treason and of breaching official secrecy laws in 18 cases.
The suspect, identified only as Abdul Hamid S. in line with German privacy rules, had worked as a translator and adviser to the German army for several years. He was arrested Jan. 15 and has been detained since.
German news site Spiegel Online previously reported that the suspect had access to highly classified materials, including on the German troops' mission in Afghanistan.
by Emma North / Jan 20, 2021
PETERSBURG, Va. (WRIC) -- The Petersburg Department of Neighborhood Services has begun addressing long standing issues with an empty hotel building visible from Interstate 95. The city performed an inspection of the former Ramada Inn hotel on Washington Street after years of it sitting unoccupied.
In 2018, 8News reported that the state had provided close to a million dollars to demolish the hotel and remove mold from the property but the efforts were put on hold due to a dispute between contractors. The project was initally scheduled to take a maximum of two years to complete.

redpajama_set_name: RedPajamaCommonCrawl


Google Pixel was one of the best smartphones released last year. However, there were a few features missing from the device that users expected the company to add to the next-gen Google Pixel 2. One was water-proofing and the other was an Always On display. Samsung's flagship phones with OLED screens already boast of this year. Now Android code has dropped hints about Google Pixel 2 Always On Ambient display.
The first company to introduce an Always On display was Nokia. Motorola brought it to Android in 2013, and now it has become mainstream. The AOSP has a version of Ambient display to let any vendor implement the feature in their smartphones. The Google Pixel 2 Always On display mode would let users see important updates at a glance without waiting for a notification to flash or having to touch the phone.
XDA Developers reported that they have found evidence of an Always On display on a Google Pixel running Android O Developer Preview 3. Experts at XDA Developers decompiled the SystemUIGoogle.apk file, which mentions "doze_always_on." Don't confuse "doze" in Android O source code with the battery-saving doze mode. XDA Developers noted that "doze" in this code refers to Ambient Display.
Google Pixel 2 is finally going to take advantage of the power-efficient nature of OLED screens to enable AOD. XDA Developers added that Google would likely introduce a toggle to enable the Google Pixel 2 Always On display with Android O. However, the company has so far kept the toggle within "tuner_prefs.xml." It means it's still an experimental feature that Google may choose to keep, remove or place it somewhere else.
The current Android O Developer Preview 3 build doesn't allow developers to access this feature. If Google brings the AOD to Pixel 2, it is expected to have a burn-in prevention tool similar to the one found on Samsung's smartphones.
Meanwhile, a new concept has surfaced online imagining the Google Pixel 2 XL. The video comes from YouTube channel Concept Creator. The device has a dual-tone rear panel similar to its predecessor. However, the main camera and LED flash have been moved to the top-right corner, while the fingerprint sensor sits in the center of the back panel.
In an earlier report last month, XDA Developers said it had learned from industry sources that the Google Pixel 2 and its bigger sibling would have a single camera on the back rather than a dual camera system. Its biggest rivals, the iPhone 8 and Galaxy Note 8, are rumored to feature a dual camera setup. It would be interesting to see how the Pixel 2 camera stacks up against the competition.
On the front, the concept Google Pixel 2 XL has a giant display with slim bezels on the sides, and curved glass on top. The speakers sit below the screen on the front panel, rather than the bottom grill. There is a front camera, earpiece, and other sensors on the top. Concept Creator imagines the device in three colors: Blue, Red, and Gray.
Will HTC and LG manufacture the new Pixel phones?
In the last few months, developers have found three code names in the Android Open Source Project (AOSP): Walleye, Muskie, and Taimen. Given the fact that Google always names its devices after marine creatures, the code names were said to belong to three Pixel phones. The HTC U11 system files recently revealed that HTC was working on two of them – Walleye and Muskie. Later, reports surfaced that Google was working with LG Electronics on a third Pixel phone, which was believed to be Taimen.
Last month, inside sources told Android Police that Google had killed Muskie, and was going to replace it with a bigger phone. So, HTC would be responsible for Walleye (Google Pixel 2) and LG Electronics is supposed to manufacture Taimen (Pixel 2 XL). The search engine giant was also reportedly investing $880 million in LG Display to secure the supply of OLED panels.
Inside sources told XDA Developers recently that the Google Pixel 2 would feature a 4.97-inch display, 4GB RAM, and 64GB of internal storage. The Pixel 2 XL would sport a 5.99-inch OLED screen with 1440p resolution. The smaller Pixel 2 would have a 1080p resolution, added the sources. The Pixel 2 would look "almost identical" to its predecessor.
While the larger Pixel 2 XL would pack the same 4GB RAM as Pixel 2, it would offer 128GB of internal storage. The new phones would have slimmer bezels, though they will not be completely bezel-less. Both the handsets are said to be powered by Qualcomm's octa-core, 64-bit Snapdragon 835 SoC. Pixel 2 will be the first phone to come with Android O pre-installed.
Google Pixel 2 and its bigger sibling are likely to hit the stores in October, in time for the holiday shopping season. The search engine giant has confirmed that successors to Google Pixel would arrive later this year. The company has also told fans that new Pixel phones would continue to target the premium segment.


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Georgia Marie Stanway (born 3 January 1999) is an English professional footballer who plays as an attacking midfielder for Frauen-Bundesliga club Bayern Munich and the England national team. Stanway has also represented England at various youth levels and is widely considered one of the best attacking midfield players of her generation.

In 2016, Stanway was nominated for BBC Young Sports Personality of the Year and was also nominated for PFA Women's Young Player of the Year in 2017. In June 2018, she was named in the UEFA Women's Champions League squad of the season. In 2019, she was awarded PFA Women's Young Player of the Year.

Early life
Stanway was born on 3 January 1999 in Barrow-in-Furness, but moved away at 16 to pursue her football dream. She grew up idolising Alan Shearer and supports Newcastle United. In Manchester, she attended St Bede's College, as teammate Keira Walsh had before her.

Club career

Blackburn Rovers
Stanway started her career at Blackburn Rovers where she played through the youth system and eventually the senior squad playing in the FA Women's Premier League, scoring seven goals in six matches.

Manchester City

On 18 July 2015, Stanway completed a move to Manchester City. On 29 July, Stanway made her senior debut for Manchester City as a substitute in a 5–0 win over Durham in the Continental Cup. On 27 August, she scored her first goal in a 2–0 victory against Everton. She ended her maiden campaign with the club's Rising Star award. In 2016, she won the Nissan Goal of the Season award. In January 2017, she signed a new contract with the club.

Her performances in the 2017–18 season led her to be named in the UEFA Women's Champions League Team of the Season. The following season, she was awarded the PFA Women's Young Player of the Year.

On 17 November 2019, Stanway scored two goals before being sent off, after receiving two yellow cards, in a 5–0 league win against West Ham United. She began the 2020–21 season by scoring a brace in a 2–0 away league win against Aston Villa.

In the first Manchester derby of the 2021–22 season, Stanway received a straight red card for a high challenge on Leah Galton in the 35th minute, with the score at 0–0. Despite this, Manchester City claimed a 2–2 draw. Stanway went on to win the FA WSL Goal of the Month award for December 2021. On 29 January 2022, Stanway became Manchester City's highest women's goalscorer after scoring a hat trick in an 8–0 win against Nottingham Forest in the fourth round of the 2021–22 Women's FA Cup.

Bayern Munich
On 17 May 2022, it was announced that Stanway had signed a three-year deal with Frauen-Bundesliga club Bayern Munich.

She made her debut on 16th August 2022 in a 2–1 friendly win over Barcelona. Stanway scored her first goals for Bayern Munich against Benfica in the Champions League. She received her first Bundesliga yellow card in her first league match for Bayern Munich; by the end of October 2022, Deutsche Welle noted that Stanway's time in the club had been "characterized more by yellow cards than goals".

International career

Youth
In 2016, Stanway captained the England under-17 team to third at the 2016 Euros, qualifying for the World Cup. In 2018, Stanway played a pivotal role in England's 2018 FIFA U-20 Women's World Cup campaign in France. Stanway scored six times (same as Golden Boot winner Patricia Guijarro but beaten only on assists) as England went on to finish third.

Senior
Stanway scored her first England goal, on her debut, in a 3–0 friendly victory against Austria on 8 November 2018. Stanway scored her second international goal in a 2–1 defeat to Norway in September 2019. On 27 May 2021 it was announced that Stanway had been selected as one of five strikers in the Great Britain women's Olympic football team for the delayed 2020 Olympics.

In June 2022 Stanway was included in the England squad which won the UEFA Women's Euro 2022, scoring the winner with a "22-yard rocket of a shot" in England's 2–1 win over Spain in the quarter-final. Stanway played 89 minutes in the final win over Germany.

Personal life
Stanway is in a relationship with Toulouse Olympique rugby league footballer Olly Ashall-Bott. In Olympique's first match following England's victory in Euro 2022, Stanway was involved in the pitch side punditry for Sky Sports.

Career statistics

Club
.

International

International goals

Honours
Manchester City
 FA Women's Super League: 2016
 Women's FA Cup: 2016–17, 2018–19, 2019–20
 FA Women's League Cup: 2016, 2018–19, 2021–22

England U17
 UEFA Women's Under-17 Championship third place: 2016

England U20
FIFA U-20 Women's World Cup third place: 2018

England

UEFA Women's Championship: 2022
SheBelieves Cup: 2019
Arnold Clark Cup: 2022, 2023

Individual
UEFA Women's Under-17 Championship Team of the Tournament: 2016
FIFA U-20 Women's World Cup Silver Boot: 2018
PFA Women's Young Player of the Year: 2018–19
 FA Women's Super League Goal of the Month: December 2021
Freedom of the City of London (announced 1 August 2022)

References

External links

 Profile  at the Manchester City F.C. website
 Profile at the Football Association website

1999 births
Living people
English expatriate sportspeople in Germany
Expatriate women's footballers in Germany
Frauen-Bundesliga players
English women's footballers
England women's youth international footballers
England women's international footballers
Olympic footballers of Great Britain
Women's association football forwards
Women's Super League players
Manchester City W.F.C. players
Footballers from Barrow-in-Furness
2019 FIFA Women's World Cup players
Footballers at the 2020 Summer Olympics
Footballers from Cumbria
UEFA Women's Euro 2022 players
UEFA Women's Championship-winning players
Footballers educated at St Bede's College, Manchester

redpajama_set_name: RedPajamaWikipedia


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Tuesday, Feb 21, 2017
China revises textbooks with new time frame for anti-Japanese war
(People's Daily Online) 11:39, February 21, 2017
Starting this spring, the stated duration of the anti-Japanese war has been extended to 14 years in all Chinese textbooks, a revision that aims to fully reflect the crimes committed by Japanese troops during the conflict.
The war, which has been known for generations in China as the "eight-year Chinese People's War of Resistance against Japanese Aggression," is now renamed the "14-year Chinese People's War of Resistance Against Japanese Aggression." The starting time of the war has been changed from 1937 to 1931, when Japanese troops began their invasion of northeastern China.
Several textbook publishers, including People's Education Press and Beijing Normal University Publishing Group, confirmed that all elementary and secondary school textbooks using the old phrase have been revised, affecting subjects including history and political science, Beijing Youth Daily reported.
The revision of higher education textbooks is not yet completed. New textbooks are expected to be introduced to universities this fall, according to the report.
The decision, which was made by the Ministry of Education in January, is believed to be a firm response to President Xi Jinping's speech at the 70th anniversary of victory in the Chinese People's War of Resistance against Japanese Aggression and the end of WWII in 2015, when Xi urged researchers to study events starting from 1931 as well as those after 1937.
"We should refute with solid facts those arguments that try to distort, deny or whitewash the history of invasion," Xi said.
Xu Yong, a history professor at Peking University, told Beijing Youth Daily that the new description of the war offers a more accurate account of the conflict, though the former phrase has been widely used for years across the Straits.
According to the Xinhua News Agency, China was the first nation to fight against fascist forces. The struggle started as early as Sept. 18, 1931, when Japanese troops began their invasion of China. It intensified with Japan's full-scale invasion, which began after a crucial access point to Beijing, Lugou Bridge, was attacked by Japanese troops on July 7, 1937.
More than 35 million Chinese soldiers and civilians were killed or wounded during the anti-Japanese war.
(For the latest China news, Please follow People's Daily on Twitter and Facebook)(Web editor: Kou Jie, Bianji)
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Year 10 is the first year of the students' preparation for the Level 2 examinations. It is a very important year when firm foundations are set and during which course work in many subjects is started. Courses in Science, Maths, Modern Languages, Business Studies, ICT, Sport, Food Technology, Textiles, Art and D&T begin and the examinations taken in these subjects count towards the final grade.
The option blocks are created each new Academic Year around student preferences. For full details please refer to our options booklet.
The curriculum is based around the core subjects of English, Mathematics and Science. The remainder of the curriculum consists of the subjects chosen by students during Year 9. PSHE is taught, as in other years, as a combination of lessons during tutor time in addition where possible, two weekly lessons in which Philosophy and Beliefs and Citizenship is taught. Some students taking extra subjects may receive fewer weekly lessons.
Year 11 is the final year of the students' Key Stage 4 studies. It is a busy and very important year in which students will take public examinations in May and June in all of their Level 2 subjects. During Year 11 students continue to follow the core subjects – English, Mathematics and Science as well as their option subjects which include the following subjects: Geography History, Business Studies, Art and Design, Music, Design Technology, P.E., ICT and Philosophy and Beliefs.
A homework timetable will be issued during the first week of term. This will be written into each student's Homework Diary. We ask parents to monitor the completion of homework very carefully and to contact us at school if there are any issues regarding homework.


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Assassin's Creed: Modern-Day Storyline Has Lost Focus
A big part of the Assassin's Creed universe consists of the duel timelines of the franchise. Each game tends to involve the pathway of someone...
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Ubisoft: Was Rushing Assassin's Creed Unity Worth Price of Discontinuing Season Pass?
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text:
Violating ourselves, redux
Posted on 23:48, May 10th, 2011 by Lew
A long and largely futile discussion has been running in response to my latest post about the Treaty, and the responsibility that Pākehā have to honour it, according to our own standards of conduct.
This post is nothing more than a formal clarification of the argument. There are really only two contentious points of principle in my case, and they are the following:
(1) Whether the Treaty was materially breached.
(2) Whether honouring one's agreements in good faith is, in fact, a philosophical baseline of Pākehā culture.
The first premise is the subject of a very considerable literature. The legal weight of the Treaty and its breaches have been exhaustively documented: authoritative accounts have been written by (at least) Walker; King; Belich; Kawharu (junior and senior); Durie (two of) and Orange; not to mention the reams and reams of material deliberated upon by the Māori Land Court and the Waitangi Tribunal. Treaty breaches are simply a matter of historical reality. Anyone who denies them is ignorant of the facts of the country's history; is at odds with the views of every qualified expert in the field; the courts, and the official position of the Crown. If you don't believe the Treaty exists in force and has been materially breached, you quite literally don't know what you're talking about.
The second premise is also the subject of a very considerable literature from within the European enlightenment tradition which also gave us the philosophy of liberalism which underpins most of our society — Locke, Mill, Smith, many others. Strong contracts are at the foundation of our pluralist-capitalist society, and in this system, strict enforcement of contracts is a fallback position when good faith and the honour of the two parties fails. Since there is no ultimate authority to enforce the Treaty of Waitangi and to compel the Crown to make good its breaches, as a matter of practicality it falls to the Crown's adherence to its own stated principles.
If (1) and (2) are both true, Pākehā have a responsibility to negotiate with Māori in good faith to achieve a mutually satisfactory resolution of the breaches. This is my argument. It is not, contrary to the beliefs of those who appear to accept neither of these propositions, a very contentious one.
Tags: Adam Smith, contracts, Dame Claudia Orange, Jamie Belich, John Locke, John Stuart Mill, Merata Kawharu, Michael King, Ranginui Walker, Sir Eddie Durie, Sir Hugh Kawharu, Sir Mason Durie, Treaty of Waitangi
Posted in Democracy, History, identity, Politics, Take Māori | Print
62 Responses to "Violating ourselves, redux"
Andrew W on May 11th, 2011 at 09:43
Well, as those are not points that I've been debating in that thread, I guess this post must be addressing the arguments of someone else.
Lew on May 11th, 2011 at 09:46
Andrew, the point is that you're not addressing these arguments in the other posts. You're arguing all sorts of additional detail which I have, regrettably, also been guilty of. But my initial argument rested only on those points.
Do you accept them, or not? If not, which do you not accept?
Danielle on May 11th, 2011 at 09:41
Heh. Let me try that again.
[deafening silence]
Lew, (1) is not disputed, I'm surprised you asked as you've made that point many times and I haven't disputed it.
(2) is also not disputed, the problem we have is that on this planet; what should be honoured, what can be honoured and what will be honoured are different things. God knows the point has been made often enough these last few days that the past cannot be undone.
Paul on May 11th, 2011 at 17:20
So, Andrew W, your position is not based on what is right and wrong (or true and false) but about what is realistic? That is, in the literal sense, a pragmatic position. Is that a fair summary of what you have stated above?
If we cannot use the Treaty as a basis to decide the rights and wrongs, and we cannot use the contractual basis of liberal democracy, then aren't we only left with the will to power? The victory of the strong over the weak?
If not, then on what basis are we to work out the healing of our history and the forging of our future, that is not merely the will to power/
SPC on May 11th, 2011 at 17:42
I would put it that there are two established positions
1. the offer by Bolger and iwi acceptance of those offers is a de facto alternative to any full and final compliance (this would be why in the use of the term full and final settlement is used – Orwellian language). This comes with the idea of moving away from the Maori electorate seats once the loss of land/taonga claims have been settled.
2. continuing moves towards a compliance, including the retaining of Maori electorate seats (the concept of partnership in compensation for loss of iwi chieftainship).
Paul, you assume that the will to power is the only pragmatic course, in fact (as I interpret the way you're defining it) it's a solution that almost never exists within societies in the human world.
Maori exist, they have grievances, their demands for compensation will continue for the foreseeable future, and they are a political force. I can see three theoretical solutions to the issue of compensation; 1. Genocide, 2. give them everything they want and keep giving until they're either satisfied or they own everything in the country 3.continue negotiations with everyone being satisfied that at least there is a negotiation process and let that continue until just about everyone in the country is part Maori and the exercise is deemed redundant.
1 and 2 ain't gonna happen.
Andrew, so you agree with me after all. Good to know.
Paul has the core objection exactly right — you purport to disagree with an argument of principle on grounds of practicality, in such a way as to dispense with the principle because it's unworkable.' You circumscribe all principled options in favour of a position which rests on — as Paul says — the fact that Māori are unable to force Pākehā into compliance. And that's why your argument is a perfect illustration of my point.
My case hasn't been about the practicalities — in the initial post I disclaimed this as 'a wider question and one to be properly decided by society at large. The legitimate classical/pluralist liberal position to take here is to concede to the factual positions in principle, and then develop a solution based on what is practical. Good faith requires that proven and documented breaches be admitted and taken responsibility for even if full restitution is impossible. After all, we expect murderers to show remorse and express apologies to the families of their victims even though nothing of the sort will bring them back.
Don Brash, whose ahistoricality regarding the Treaty was the target of the initial post, does the same thing; although to your credit you at least accept premise (1), which he appears not to do.
SPC, I think your argument is generally correct and that the former position describes, for the most part, the National party view of the Treaty; whereas the latter position describes the position of the Labour, Green and māori parties.
Both positions are really only partially compliant with my argument as to Pākehā traditional legitimacy here, since both approaches place many very strict limits on both the process and eventual outcomes which continue to stack the deck against Māori. But both are streets ahead of the position advocated by Brash (and the position held by National while Brash was its leader, since, apparently, repudiated.)
Under previous governments — both National and Labour-led — iwi and hapÅ« have placed caveats on Treaty settlements, and there exists a small but growing body of precedent which (as I understand it) could permit review of settlements given later game-changing developments — foreshore and seabed being one example. While no doubt the Treaty's enemies will cite these as examples of Māori 'never being satisfied' that isn't the case — such provisions are either agreed to by both parties, or they emerge from court judgements as to legal right and are therefore legitimate.
Trouble on May 11th, 2011 at 19:45
iwi and hapū have placed caveats on Treaty settlements, and there exists a small but growing body of precedent which (as I understand it) could permit review of settlements given later game-changing developments — foreshore and seabed being one example.
That's not my understanding. Could you elaborate or provide citations?
Toruble, my knowledge of the detail of this isn't clear. I can't lay a hand on the main thing I read it in, but there are a few references to the prospect of settlement review in the Report of the UN Special Rapporteur. The case in point mentioned in this document is, if I recall, regarding oil & gas reserves, which the Crown has unilaterally refused to negotiate as part of settlements, but which the Waitangi Tribunal has found should be eligible for inclusion in some cases.
Edit to add: Still can't find it, but my understanding is that a stock part of Treaty settlement text is something like 'this settlement covers breaches up until [date] but [claimant] reserves the right to pursue claims arising from Crown actions taken after that date.' The point being that a Crown action circumscribing some activity or resource a claimant had, or reasonably thought they had, could give rise to an additional claim. The distinction between 'historical' Treaty claims (those which had to be made before whatever arbitrary date in 2008) and those which are current becomes relevant here.
Phil Sage on May 11th, 2011 at 20:50
The Treaty contains just three short clauses, and deals with the government of New Zealand, property rights, and citizenship. Those principles must be upheld. Where there has been a clear breach of the Treaty – where land has been stolen, for example – then it is right that attempts to make amends should be made.
I acknowledge that there are problems of Maori socio-economic disparity in some places, mostly rural. We will focus our welfare reform efforts on those areas. We will not have entire townships, and some suburbs, on the dole.
Welfare recipients will be offered retraining, and offered some activity by which they can earn, and be seen to earn, their welfare cheque. Their children will see their parents constructively engaged in the community each day, not marginalised by it. That, more than anything, will restore their dignity.
But these are not Treaty issues: they are social welfare issues, and Maori New Zealanders who are in need are as entitled to assistance as any other New Zealanders who are in need.
Lew – Do you think the statements above are racist?
I just read the Orewa speech again and am at a loss to see how it is racist.
I agree with your redux points and from the statements above so does Dr Brash.
Can you point to specific statements of Dr Brash's speech that are racist. That after all was the point of the original post affirming your agreement with Danyl.
And once more we get into litigating the detail. Though it's nice that we have agreement on the basic principles now.
Entrenched poverty and social dysfunction can't be decoupled from Treaty breaches, because they stem from Treaty breaches. Māori were stripped of their economic bases and forced to work for subsistence wages (historically differing payment regulations represent another another breach) and eventually to urbanise and become separated from the cultural systems due to their lack of an economic base. Fifty million acres — fifty million acres! To decouple them is to argue that the proceeds of fair sale from that land (or from economic exploitation of it; rental or cropping or whatever else)passed down through the four or so generations since the majority of breaches occurred could not have possibly made a difference. And that's just the land — plenty more was taken or destroyed besides.
It certainly has made a different to the modern-day landed gentry of the big farming stations to whom many of those stolen acres went.
Phil, are you serious?
Danyl's analysis has it in a nutshell: it seeks to deny and minimise the historical reality of Māori experience, but not to reverse the very large wealth and power transfer from Māori to Pākehā which characterised that experience. He wants to pretend that this post-transfer status quo is a sort of Year Zero position of fundamental equality. It's not simply ahistorical; it's selectively ahistorical.
I've also pointed you and others to Jon Johansson's paper on the speech. I assume you haven't read it.
Para 41 of the Rapporteur's report:
Finally, under the Government settlement policy, all settlements of historical grievances, that is, those arising from acts or omissions by the Government before 21 September 1992, are final; in exchange for the settlement redress, the settlement legislation will prevent the courts, the Waitangi Tribunal, or any other judicial body or tribunal from re-opening the historical claims. … This lack of independent review contributes to a feeling on the part of Māori of an imbalance of power in the settlement process, as well as a feeling that the settlement process is at times unfair.
Lew – Basically you are talking nonsense.
My generations back family came out on a boat about 1840. The father died on the way out and the mother went into domestic servitude in order to feed the family.
Not all Maori land was stolen. So I would argue on balance that Maori started from a higher base than my family and yet when my grandfather retired in the sixties he owned 5 farms.
This is what it really comes down to. The very large proportion of early settlers had no money either so your argument of an economic base simply does not wash. That does not mean that historical wrongs should not be righted.
My belief is that Pakeha started with more education and a culture that rewarded aspiration. Is it racist to point out that Europeans had a more advanced culture than Maori when settlers arrived. Inevitably that gave them a head start but that is completely different from your point.
But the critical point is that some non Maori also suffer from lack of advantage. That makes it a social welfare issue not a racial issue. And that is the point of what Brash says
I have not read johannsen but will do so and comment further
Phil, you have your anecdata, and I have the historical fact that, of 60-ish million acres of land, about 50 million had been confiscated by the year 1900. Many settlers may not have had anything to start with (my earliest NZ ancestors walked from Riverton to Christchurch because they were short on options) but, being European in a system being set up by Europeans for Europeans, they could get jobs and were less at risk of being cheated than were Māori. And many of them got given that land which was stolen, or bought it for labour, or for trivial sums of money. Ask yourself: where did those five farms come from? I know a bit about that, too, since some of my more recent ancestors bought some confiscated land from the Crown, for a trivial sum. Beat that with a stick.
And, yes, it is racist to claim that European culture is 'more advanced'.
Phil, Maori culture was based around an economic collective, a collective dispossessed of its assets is disabled. The Pakeha society was built around private individual ownership and Maori were not part of that culture. The alienation that is affected on a subjugated population, combined with subsequent population decimation explains why they were outperformed by those individual families who had to (and were able to) travel around the the world to get the chance of a better life.
Are you referring to this?
http://blog.greens.org.nz/wp-content/politicalscience.pdf
Or is wading through that simply a punishment for disagreement and the real paper is elsewhere
Much of the appropriated land was given on leases to migrants, later these migrants were allowed to own the land (one of the great electoral bribes in our nations history).
Indeed, while Māori were legislatively prevented from leasing their land out — so the only option was to sell it, or work it yourself. Assuming you could keep hold of it longer than the first uninvited Crown surveyor turned up to tell you that your boundary was the river where the boundary had always been, and raise a lien against the land for his services (which you couldn't pay because you didn't have the capital to establish a working farm and you weren't allowed to lease land to anyone who did).
And assuming the Crown didn't allege that a drunken brawl in town constituted a rebellion, send in the Constabulary to suppress it, and then raise a lien against your land for that unwanted service as well (even though you had nothing to do with said brawl).
And assuming …
Lew – What is your factual basis for claiming 50m acres?
I checked govt history website and read 4m
Lew "And, yes, it is racist to claim that European culture is 'more advanced'."
I pointed out "was". Genuinely please tell me why that is a racist statement.
Phil, my family also came out here with nothing, then my great great Grandad ended up being the mayor of a significant provincial town in the Waikato. Could have a Maori man won the mayoralty in a small provincial town in the late 19thC, the early 20th, the 1930s? I doubt it.
I would like to see you back up this assertion from a single historical source: "The very large proportion of settlers came out here with no money either…"
As Lew emphasises, 50 Million acres! That land was taken at the behest of Pakeha landless settlers like our forebears and sold cheaply to them on cheap credit.
Phil, it's a back-of-the-envelope figure which (in addition to outright confiscation) also includes illegitimate or fraudulent purchases, 'rebellion' seizure, lien forfeiture and so on. Ngāi Tahu alone lost more than 34 million acres to raupatu, this figure having been agreed by the Waitangi Tribunal and accepted by the Crown.
Edit to add: I'm not going to give you a lesson on the history and practice of ethnocentrism. I spend enough of my time teaching people the basics of the subjects they're trying to argue against me as it is.
Lew – My guess is that you narrowly define culture. There are some fascinating books out there about why various parts of the world developed faster than others. For example despite the Indus valley being the first place where agriculture developed it did not maintain that headstart.
I define culture reasonably widely to include technology and development. If we agree on that definition we can have a more fruitful discussion about whether European culture was more advanced.
Phil, you couldn't guess more wrong. My wife is an anthropologist; a cultural anthropologist whose field is complex — modern — societies. So I define it very broadly indeed. And yes, I'm familiar with Jared Diamond and the like, and while their arguments are interesting, I think it's fair to say there's a bit more to it than all that.
But that doesn't really matter to the question of advancement. It's meaningless to say that one culture is more 'advanced' than another. Culture is not linear. Or more precisely, the comparison is not necessarily meaningless — comparative ethnography is a pretty important thing — but at the very least, any determination as to 'advancement' will never be more meaningful than the determiner's ability to set aside their own ethnocentrism.
The fact that you are apparently unaware of yours — the fact that you suppose your own ethnocentrism is a sort of objective universalism — suggests rather strongly that such an exercise is futile in this case.
" It's meaningless to say that one culture is more 'advanced' than another."
Lew – Lets just agree that when you make statements like that it is indeed pointless to try to have a discussion on that subject. You must be violently rejecting any kind of objectivity in the cause of relativist equality.
The five farms came from bush broken into productive farmland. Whilst we attach economic value to bush nowadays, it was not the same 150 years ago.
I have read the Johannson article now. It was worse than I expected it to be. It misrepresented Brash statements. But I am now curious to know your translation of 'He iwi tahi tatou'
I'm really getting sick of this. I'm arguing a topic — which wasn't at issue in the post, so it's an indulgence — from within the modern norms of the field from which it emerges, and despite not knowing that field you claim I'm talking bollocks.
Well, bollocks. You can't measure the 'advancement' of culture with an objective metric, like a ruler. Any measurement needs to be taken on culturally mediated metrics. Since the measuring tool is not objective, the measurement can't be objective, see? It's not rocket science. As I say, there is value in the comparative approach, but it needs to be methodologically rigorous and careful not to slump into ethnocentric conceits. Your approach is neither.
Five farms from bushland, you say. Bushland with no economic value? To your forefathers, perhaps. But you can be damned sure it had economic value to its original owners. And still, from whom were they bought? Were they bought? Was the price fair and the agreement freely made, or was it done under threat, as most was? I don't expect answers to these in your case — it's unjust to personalise this — but the point remains that the land was not simply 'terra nullius', lacking in economic value or human ownership.
'He iwi tahi tatou' means just what Hobson claimed it did. But it is telling that Brash places so much value on one nice-sounding phrase which isn't even in the Treaty, but so little on the black-letter text of the Treaty itself, and on the events which came after it.
Trouble on May 11th, 2011 at 21:25 said:
Para 41 of the Rapporteur's report:
Finally, under the Government settlement policy, all settlements of historical grievances, that is, those arising from acts or omissions by the Government before 21 September 1992, are final; in exchange for the settlement redress, the settlement legislation will prevent the courts, the Waitangi Tribunal, or any other judicial body or tribunal from re-opening the historical claims. … This lack of independent review contributes to a feeling on the part of Māori of an imbalance of power in the settlement process, as well as a feeling that the settlement process is at times unfair.
OK, so either we're going to see the settlement industry come to an end soon or the rules are going to be rewritten so that it can continue indefinitely, neither option will do a damn thing to lift the poorest Maori out of their defeatist mindset.
Lew, now perhaps you can turn this into yet another opportunity to accuse me of having some self serving motivation.
If the meritless-presumption-of-bad-faith cap fits, Andrew…
I guess you've made it very clear that you're only willing to give lip service to the group of Maori I'm referring to Lew, for you it's far more fun to address those really big and important issues of the wrongs of 100 or more years ago, and then pretend that compensating for those wrongs will somehow dramatically change the lives of the people I'm talking about, it won't, you know it won't, but that doesn't fit with what you've been preaching all these years, so you have to sweep that inconvenient fact away because accepting it isn't good for your ego.
Well, Andrew, you've got your view; me and pretty much everyone who knows anything about the subject have ours.
Heh, on the point I've made above, which has been my main point throughout, that 'the Waitangi settlements will do little, if anything, to change the defeatist attitudes of the poorest Maori, and that without somehow changing those attitudes they'll never be able to pick themselves up', you've so far had no allies in this discussion.
Actually Lew I think what Andrew and I were hoping for was an open and honest discussion of real issues that we normally get from this blog.
Instead, for me, it is a genuine insight into a world that I did not really believe existed except in the world of parody. I have come to view you as having and expressing honestly held views so I take your statements above at face value.
I am frankly incredulous that someone as intelligent as you so obviously are can be so wrapped up in the righteousness of their beliefs that they are unable to have a discussion that gets past something as simple as the fact one culture can be more advanced than another.
If you take one thing from this exchange Lew make it the following. Question your value system. The Emperor has no clothes!
You can accuse me of ethnocentrism or voodooism or being a Justin Bieber fan or whatever insult you might wish but it will not objectively change the fact that a culture or a society that can produce a musket is more advanced than one wielding greenstone clubs or carved wooden sticks.
I dont need an advanced degree in anthropology to be able to figure that one out.
my opening sentence does not imply you were not being honest.
I think the "more advanced culture" thing is fraught with ambiguity, cultures undoubtedly change with changing technology, but while the technology can be more or less advanced, the term "advanced culture" is one I personally wouldn't use, Phil perhaps you should switch to using the word "complex" instead, as when a society becomes more technical it's culture becomes more complex.
To illustrate; Does a culture that's complex, but running down into decadence, as sometimes happens, have a more "advanced" culture than a less technological, but progressing society?
More advanced by what standard?
Oh, by your standard.
And by that standard you have decided (based, essentially, on a trivial survey of weaponry and some 'I reckons') that your culture is the one you deem more advanced. What a shock.
If you can't see how uncritically idiotic this is, there's really no point.
Edit to add: Incidentally, 'complex' is no better as far as a culture is concerned.
Seriously, guys, this type of thinking has been utterly discredited for decades. Not coincidentally, since the second world war, whose major antagonists were its strongest proponents.
'complex' is no better as far as a culture is concerned.
# An integrated pattern of human knowledge, belief, and behavior that depends upon the capacity for symbolic thought and social learning
# The set of shared attitudes, values, goals, and practices that characterizes an institution, organization or group
Does these get more complex as a technological society gets more complex? Yep.
I'm in I-read-a-dictionary-definition-now-I'm-an-expert autodidact hell.
I'm done.
As opposed to make up your own.
http://xkcd.com/386/
It is truly amazing the merry dance some people will lead you during an argument to avoid a) learning something they might not know and b) thereby accepting any responsibility for institutional racism, historical wrongs, or indeed any type of privilege.
It's really simple: Own it. Try to fix it. >>note to Danielle: crude insults are off-limits (Pablo)<<
Sacha on May 12th, 2011 at 11:31
There's a short name for folk who argue to avoid discomfort at their own part in things: children.
Andrew, you question whether Treaty settlements are a means (not the only means of course) to bridge the income and wealth inequality gap in this country.
And by not simply being charity given to an underclass, this does more to respect Maori culture and restore Maori mana as an indigenous people.
The need for this was seen as long ago as Muldoon's
government that established kohanga reo and tu tangata (and even Mana Enterprises to rebuild Maori entrepreneurship). But without Treaty redress there was no basis for success in what were clearly identified need to revive the language, restore the pride and provide opportunity.
Other Treaty principles are behind Maori Party advocacy for whanau ora, since we know programmes targeted towards Maori do work (such as reducing smoking levels).
The whole "industry" is about empowerment and beyond the gravy train there is the role modelling this creates as to Maori status and place in the wider economy and society (including Maori media). Children see their parents investing in business ownership and running agencies of state such as in whanau ora.
The iwi trust funds will, as revenue flows are invested in educational opportunites and venture capital for Maori business start-ups, eventually improve income levels of Maori.
The fact that many iwi have yet to conclude settlements or have only recently done so, even that forerunners such as Tainui and Nga Tahu are still in the early phase as to bearing fruit.
Thanks SPC, that's much more along the lines of what I was driving at, changing attitudes and breaking down that alienation and defeatism, resources targeted in that way will be far more effective in making the changes that will flow into combating that defeatism, the benefits of the gravy train will in comparison be more beneficial to well connected Maori.
Pascal's bookie on May 12th, 2011 at 15:32
If Māori talk about us behind our backs and have bad attitudes then we shouldn't have to honour the treaty.
Honouring the treaty wouldn't necessarily fix everything that's bad about the situation many Māori are in; so it's a distraction and we should stop talking about it.
Are those the arguments?
They look like it to me, and it's pretty hard to see the hurtfulness in saying that they are bad faith arguments when the question is "Should we honour the treaty out of respect for ourselves?"
Even if those things are true, how do you get from there to justifying not honouring the treaty?
And if the question is 'how do we honour the treaty', then how can we possibly get an answer that isn't, 'find a way to satisfy both sides'.
And if that is the only answer, then how is starting out by saying you think 'Māori will never be satisfied' anything other than petulance?
Aren't we bound to try without poisoning the well with all this sort of stuff?
Can people honestly say that they think it's terribly unfair that there is suspicion amoung Māori when this is what the dominant discourse is like?
If Māori talk about us behind our backs and have bad attitudes then we shouldn't have to honour the treaty.
Honouring the treaty wouldn't necessarily fix everything that's bad about the situation many Māori are in; so it's a distraction and we should stop talking about it.
They look like it to me,
Well, then you haven't been following the discussion, or you're just building strawmen.
And if the question is 'how do we honour the treaty', then how can we possibly get an answer that isn't, 'find a way to satisfy both sides'.
And if that is the only answer, then how is starting out by saying you think 'Māori will never be satisfied' anything other than petulance?
I certainly don't dismiss the possibility that a mutually satisfactory conclusion can be reached, but I think that it's possible that we'll continue negotiations with everyone being satisfied that at least there is a negotiation process and that'll continue until just about everyone in the country is part Maori at which point the exercise is deemed redundant.
Pascal what's your response to:'the Waitangi settlements will do little, if anything, to change the defeatist attitudes of the poorest Maori, and that without somehow changing those attitudes they'll never be able to pick themselves up'?
The only person to attempt to refute that is Lew, whose refutation consists of the word "bollocks", not a very comprehensive refutation in my view.
I think that even if true, (which is completely unknowable), it's utterly beside the point of whether or not we should honour the treaty.
Because it is so beside the point, I wonder why you are so fixated on it.
The treaty isn't a social welfare policy, so why would the things you are talking about have any bearing on the matter?
You claim it's a strawman, but perhaps you can explain why you keep bringing it up and explain how it relates to the question of whether or not Pākehā citizens should support honouring the treaty.
Can you honestly say its unreasonable for there to be Māori suspicion about Pākehā good faith, given the dominant discourse Andrew?
"I wonder why you are so fixated on it."
I wonder why people like you and Lew don't find the issue of disparity between Maori and Pakeha New Zealander's a something to ponder and discuss. Half the prison population Maori, so many of the babies and young children beaten to death in our society are Maori, we know this problem is associated not just with Maori but with a specific section of the Maori community, but you think that hey! Waitangi settlements will solve it, you might hear the calls of "honour the treaty! honour the treaty!" Maybe that's the squeaky wheel you hear, but it's not the one I hear.
"The treaty isn't a social welfare policy, so why would the things you are talking about have any bearing on the matter?"
Go through the discussion, whenever I've tried to get discussion going on the problems of this specific segment of Maori society Lew switches topic, suggesting that I oppose Waitangi settlements and am using my argument that Waitangi settlements won't do much to solve the problems of this segment as a way to argue against Waitangi settlements. Apart from my suspicion that it'll just roll on and on I haven't said a word against settlements. I think Lew is just fighting the same fight he's always fought.
Phil summed up what I've been saying all along:
Lew – I think you are scared to address Andrews point. You either deny that defeatist expectation of racism exists in Maori homes and go against all kinds of social research indicating that aspirational homes bring up aspirational kids or you agree with his point and accept that there is a wider and more difficult issue to addres in overcoming Maori underperformance.
What Andrew is saying is simply that no amount of compensation for perceived or actual wrongs will overcome the defeatism.
That's not an argument against the Waitangi settlements, that's an argument that the Waitangi settlements won't solve the problems I'm talking about, but frustratingly Lew just drags it back to the settlements.
Do you think the parents that beat their kids to death pay a lot of attention to negotiations between Iwi and the Crown? They run their households the way they do because they're alienated from the society that they deal with every day, to them it's personal, they bring their kids up to be hard and not to trust them or society, because they as individuals are personally so often in conflict with society.
Please help Lew! My reply is in the spam filter again.
Pablo on May 12th, 2011 at 19:57
Andrew:
I do the bulk of the spam filter checking and so it is usually a short delay before it is noticed. For some reason you, jh and PB have been sent to the filter regularly. I am happy to say that the filter is not configured to detect contrary opinion.
Thanks Pablo
Andrew, sorry about the comment in spam.
Briefly: you're misrepresenting me. I don't mind talking about the disparity between Māori and Pākehā, but not in this context. The reasons for this I've laid out in some detail, but let me collate them all together so there's no doubt.
1. The whole premise that Māori dysfunction is caused by their attitude, rather than by the material and cultural circumstances imposed upon them by Pākehā society (largely as a consequence of Treaty breaches which marginalise them and stripped them of economic and cultural capital) is, to put it mildly, bollocks. Not only have you provided no sort of evidence other than 'I reckons', but your case is contradicted by the limited data we have on the topic — the businesses established by Te Runanga o Ngāi Tahu, and the social and community projects undertaken with the profits of those businesses, for example. Moreover, your argument just doesn't hold up to scrutiny. As I said: it's the equivalent of arguing that the reason the Wellington College First XV can't beat the All Blacks is that they lack the necessary will, rather than the fact that they're up against the best team in the world.
2. These two posts aren't about Māori, they're about Pākehā. Trying to shift the focus away from the responsibilities of Pākehā to honour the Treaty and toward Māori has the effect of blaming them for the effects of circumstances materially caused by Pākehā actions. I'm not going to entertain such blatant victim-blaming here. Even if it isn't just a tactic to avoid responsibility (which I don't believe) is offtopic in this context. If you want to talk about Māori dysfunction, there are plenty of other places you can do so without derailing an existing debate to terms which you perceive are more favourable to you.
3. The moment you start talking about 'parents that beat their kids to death' in terms of a general policy response for Māori, you're engaging in a propaganda discussion, not a policy discussion. Your whole line of reasoning here has been to generalise from the worst examples out to the wider population of Māori. Because there will always be outliers, you'll always be able to claim that the proposed policy track isn't working if it suits your case. It's dishonest, and given other unreconstructed anti-Māori sentiments expressed here, it's very tempting to assume it's just thinly-disguised racism.
In short, it's just not worth discussing. It's not that I don't have a retort; it's just that I'd hoped to not have to indulge this sort of idiocy any more than I already had. I don't intend to spend any more.
Lew – If you have had enough of us you can always engage with your mate Chris, he has just posted referencing yours. :)
James on May 12th, 2011 at 21:07
By the standard of respecting human life and the objective requirements of its survival and prospering then Western Culture is vastly superior to all others….not perfect,but still better than any others by that standard…which is the prime one.
Kiwipolitico » Blog Archive » Violating ourselves on May 12th, 2011 at 21:41
[…] a follow-up to this post and discussion here. Tags: Danyl Mclauchlan, Don Brash, One Nation, Psycho Milt, Tino Rangatiratanga, Treaty of […]
Kiwipolitico » Blog Archive » A Response to Chris on May 12th, 2011 at 23:04
[…] Chris Posted on 22:37, May 12th, 2011 by Lew Chris Trotter has written a response to the previous discussions regarding the Treaty, titled Talking Past Each Other. I would usually respond there, but Blogger […]
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Li and Fung, one of the biggest fare exchanging organizations in Asia, works basically as a specialists to associate U.S. what's more, European makers and retailers of nondurable, mass-market purchaser merchandise with suppliers found all over East Asia who fabricate items concurring client outlines. Li and Fung's system of 2,000 suppliers in over twelve nations is one of its most essential aggressive resources. This system comprises of associations with suppliers and information of their capacities and qualities. The system gives various advantages to clients, the most imperative being a wide assortment of assembling choices that vary by value, quality, and conveyance time. Li and Fung's exchanging operations are sorted out into to a great extent autonomous, client centered divisions helped by local office workplaces. Its inside structure and motivators (particularly pay) are intended to propel staff to redo administration to every client and to utilize the whole system to submit every client request with the supplier that most nearly fits client necessities. This outline is particularly vital in light of exchanging's low edges.


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On September 17 Fiji held its first election since Voreqe "Frank" Bainimarama seized power in a 2006 coup. With his Fiji First party receiving 59.2% of the vote, Bainimarama will remain in power. Aman Ravindra-Singh, a candidate for the Peoples Democratic Party took so social media in the following days to declare "It is business as usual with the same old crooks this time they are in suits".
This soundbyte oversimplifies the history of Fiji. As a British colony, indentured servants were brought from India to work on sugar plantations, and in time equaled the indigenous population in number. The divide-and-rule system implemented by the British persisted following independence, with electorates for ethnic Fijians and electorates for Fijian Indians.
Electorates were not based on population, meaning people in densely populated areas (more likely to be Fijian Indian) had less representation in parliament than the rural electorates, more likely to be populated by ethnic Fijians.
'Ethnic tensions' does not tell the whole story, the coups in 1987 and 2000 were indeed led by men wanting to retain the political power of ethnic Fijians, but the governments they overthrew were led by the multi-ethnic Labour Party which had its base not in any one ethnic group but in Fiji's working class, which had been instrumental in independence struggles with industrial action as a tactic, and has retaining its fighting spirit though the subsequent decades.
The Bainimarama coup was different in that he promised to reform the electoral system to end the ethnic division. The election was held with electorates of equal size under 'Open List', a form of proportional representation similar to the MMP system used in New Zealand, but giving voters some control over the order of candidates on party lists. As in New Zealand, parties had to cross a 5% threshold, disadvantaging small parties and independents.
During the eight years since the coup the Bainimarama regime attempted to crush the union movement, arresting organisers and strike leaders, and issuing decrees limiting the role of unions in political life. "The current Decrees deny workers their most fundamental rights which are part of human rights and attempt to decimate workers unions and all the gains that workers have made through decades of struggle," wrote then Council of Trade Unions general secretary Felix Antony in February last year.
Around the same time the FCTU ended its support for the Labour Party, which was seen at the time as becoming an Indian Party drawing most of its support from just one union. Support for the Labour Party has collapsed completely, from 39% of the vote in 2006 to just 2.6% this year. Unfortunately, the new party formed out of a mass meeting of union members, the Peoples Democratic Party, didn't do much better gaining just 3.2% of the vote.
Anthony, who had left his FCTU role to lead the new party (a government decree meant union office holders could not stand as candidates) resigned from the party leadership saying he takes full responsibility for the party's poor performance.
"The good governance organisations know too well that elections are far more than just the "casting and counting" of votes, especially in a Fiji where draconian military decrees and total media control have restricted and shaped public opinion over the last eight years.
The struggle for democracy in Fiji is far from over.


Provide support and training to enhance the capacity of individuals and families to address problems arising from poverty.
Any person on a low income or Centrelink benefit.
Far North, Yorke Peninsula, Mid North, Eyre & West.


Luke Seerveld who runs Meet The Gaffer on YouTube was a good find in 2016. Loads of info from the world of Gaffing.
Here is the last post in 2K16 for Luke where he covers loading a Fisher 10 for traveling.
Forgot how to load the accessories on the Fisher 10 before sending back to the rental house? Here's one way to do it.


That may explain how Mikel's in-person class for 20 teachers has in three years become a digital class for more than 1,000.
In August 2014, 12 teachers became the inaugural class of Mikel's Teacher Lab. In a small room at BPL, she boosted their library resource skills, including navigating the collection, finding primary sources, working with databases, using Google and Wikipedia correctly, writing citations, and evaluating authoritative resources. To pass the course, they built an annotated bibliography.
Over the next three years, she grew the class from a two-week session into a four-day intensive and convinced the New York City Department of Education to grant it "P-credit" status, which means its graduates earn professional development credit—the first such class for teachers offered by a public library in the city.
This success was satisfying, but Mikel grew frustrated by its limited reach. "That's why I took it online," she says.
With the help of a $25,000 Sparks! Ignition grant from the Institute of Museum and Library Services, Mikel launched the digital Teacher Lab in July 2017. It's a 12-hour, self-paced course. On completion participants earn 12 credits—and it's free.
Because she wants "as many educators as possible to have access to the course content and reconnect to the library," Mikel designed the online content to be widely applicable—and it's proving to be. More than 1,000 educators from 17 states have enrolled and about ten percent have finished so far.
Yay!!!!! Amy - so many congratulations!!!
Congratulations Amy! Awesome work that you do!
Hi Amy, Congratulations! You deserve it. You led the workshops that I attended with babies in utero like a true champ! Glad to see you being recognized for your tireless efforts!


Discussion in 'Completed Listings' started by gr6825, Feb 16, 2013.
Lumix 20mm f/1.7 in pristine condition. I purchased this as part of a larger kit. I purchased from the original owner and I cannot see signs of use. See photos re condition. I am selling because I already have a lens similar to this one. Please pm with any questions. Lens comes with original front and rear caps, lens stuff sack, and manual. If paypal payment is received by Monday evening, then I can ship first thing on Tuesday morning.


text:
HUD Secretary Carson Testifies Before House Financial Services Committee
On May 21, the Secretary of the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development, Dr. Ben Carson, testified before the House Financial Services Committee at a hearing entitled "Housing in America: Oversight of the U.S. Department of Housing and Development" where he received pointed questions from the committee Democrats on recent HUD proposals such as rent reform, the non-citizen rule, and HUD's FY20 budget request which would slash funding for public housing.
In her opening remarks, Committee Chairwoman Maxine Waters (D-CA) expressed her disappointment in the Secretary's leadership at HUD, referring to his rent reform proposal as an "outrageous plan" that would "triple rent for the lowest income households and put 1.7 million Americans at risk of eviction and homelessness at a time when we are in the midst of a national homelessness and housing affordability crisis."
Waters also admonished the Secretary for the Department's budget proposal that would cut its budget by 18 percent and eliminate new funding for the capital fund and housing trust fund, halt the Affirmatively Furthering Fair Housing rule implementation, and delay disaster recovery funding for Puerto Rico. Referring to the proposed non-citizen rule as "cruel" and one that, "puts mixed immigration status families at risk of being evicted, separated, and left homeless," Waters concluded that these actions are inconsistent with the Department's mission.
Continuing the focus on recent HUD proposals, several Democrats expressed their outrage to Carson over the rent reform and non-citizen proposals. Reps. Sylvia Garcia (D-TX), Carolyn Maloney (D-NY), Juan Vargas (D-CA), Nydia Velazquez (D-NY), were among those who challenged the Department's assertion that removing mixed-status families from HUD-assisted housing would reduce waiting lists and help address the lack of affordable housing.
Carson defended the proposed rule by stating that the current interpretation of the statute unfairly allows undocumented immigrants to live in federally assisted housing at the expense of U.S. citizens. "It's not that we're cruel or mean-hearted, it's that we're logical," he said. "This is common sense. You take care of your own first."
Velazquez also reproved Carson for acknowledging the affordable housing crisis while at the same time eliminating the capital fund, referring to HUD's budget proposal as "shameful and immoral."
In contrast to the frustrated tone of their colleagues, Republican committee members generally expressed support for Carson's proposals and asked about issues such as impediments to affordable housing construction, opportunity zones, recent changes to FHA loan program rules, and disaster recovery.
When discussing options for increasing affordable housing production, Secretary Carson touted LIHTC, RAD, and the potential for combining those programs with opportunity zone tax incentives to engage in unprecedented opportunities to build affordable housing and create economic opportunities. Calling RAD one of the most spectacular HUD programs, he said that lifting the RAD cap would be tremendously helpful.
Rep. Ann Wagner (R-MO) and Rep. Al Green (D-TX) both raised concerns with the cumbersome CDBG-DR disbursement process and asked the Secretary what could be done to provide, or codify, a framework that would speed delivery of aid to areas impacted by natural disasters. In his response, the Secretary expressed concerns with the duplicative requirements across HUD and FEMA and said that there are ways to streamline the process that can, and should, be codified to ensure grant dollars can be disbursed more expediently.
Several committee members focused their questions on Housing Choice Vouchers and landlords' unwillingness to consider applicants who use them. Rep. Alma Adams (D-NC) asked the Secretary whether a federal law prohibiting source of income discrimination is needed to increase lease-up rates and ensure that families can put their voucher to use. Carson responded that the Department is looking at impediments to people accepting vouchers, and if after going through that evaluation process the problem continues, then a federal source of income discrimination law may be needed.
When asked about his legacy at HUD, Secretary Carson said that he hoped the Department would be known for putting people on a positive trajectory. And, if given a magic wand to implement any policy possible, Carson said he would "make this country stop hating each other. We'd get a whole lot done."
Watch the hearing on the committee website.
CLPHA Applauds House THUD Appropriators for Investing in Public Housing, Keeping Families Together
FY20 Funding Bill from the House Appropriations Subcommittee on Transportation, Housing and Urban Development and Related Agencies Includes Robust Funding Increases and Legislative Language to Prevent HUD from Evicting Mixed-Status Immigrant Families
WASHINGTON (May 22, 2019) - In preparation for a subcommittee markup on the morning of May 23, the House Appropriations Subcommittee on Transportation, Housing and Urban Development and Related Agencies (THUD) today released their FY20 funding bill. According to the subcommittee proposal, the discretionary funding level for the Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD) totals $50.1 billion, an increase of $5.9 billion above the FY19 enacted level, and $13.4 billion above President Trump's request.
The Executive Director of the Council of Large Public Housing Authorities, Sunia Zaterman, issued the following statement in support of the bill:
"In a familiar pattern and reprise of repudiating Trump Administration budget proposals, the House THUD budget reflects Congress' continuing commitment to fund critically important housing and community development programs the Administration proposed rescinding, cutting, or eliminating in its budget request.
"CLPHA is pleased that under the leadership of THUD Subcommittee Chairman David Price (D-NC) and Ranking Member Mario Diaz-Balart (R-FL), the THUD proposal increases – in several instances substantially increases – or level funds programs critical to communities served by public housing authorities.
"In addition to robust funding increases, such as the doubling of Choice Neighborhoods to $300 million and fully funding the Section 8 account, the proposal includes legislative language to prevent HUD from evicting mixed-status immigrant families from public housing, and to prohibit HUD from unilaterally changing the public housing annual contributions contract without public input and following the administrative procedures act process. Importantly, mandatory rent increases and work requirements were not included in the subcommittee's bill.
"We applaud the subcommittee for its ongoing commitment to public and affordable housing and look forward to working with the Chair and Ranking Member in support of this bill."
The Council of Large Public Housing Authorities is a national non-profit organization that works to preserve and improve public and affordable housing through advocacy, research, policy analysis and public education. CLPHA's 70 members represent virtually every major metropolitan area in the country. Together they manage 40 percent of the nation's public housing program; administer more than a quarter of the Housing Choice Voucher program; and operate a wide array of other housing programs. Learn more at clpha.org and on Twitter @CLPHA and follow @housing_is for news on CLPHA's Housing Is Initiative to better intersect the housing field and other areas of critical importance such as health and education.
Members of Congress and CLPHA Members Speak Out Against HUD's Non-Citizen Rule
CLPHA Member Call Scheduled for June 6
Secretary Carson was the sole witness during the House Financial Services Committee May 21 hearing, "Housing in America: Oversight of the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development." Watch a webcast recording of the hearing.
Read CLPHA's Summary of the Hearing


According to Moonalice legend, fears about climate change run deep in the Moonalice tribe. Rising temperatures and changing patterns of rainfall threaten the crop which fuels our tribe, cannabis. As a consequence, the tribe has begun to gaze longingly at our home plutoid, the moon. This year, we set aside a couple pounds of fine herb to fuel our space science program, which had been in mothballs since in Apollo. In only a few months, the results are truly impressive. As you can see in tonight's amazing poster by Dennis Loren, two Moonalice scientists have harnessed the power in a red rose to power a new kind of telescope, a love telescope. It's basically the world's largest Kiss Cam. We're not sure how -- or even if -- the Love Scope can reverse climate change, but it's bound to improve everyone's love life.
What happened to the Livestream Chat? Hasn't worked in a while now.