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Presbyterians in Love
Or, the feeling Philip Vickers Fithian
Can Presbyterians fall in love? Okay, everyone falls in love, but when people think of Presbyterians they normally conjure up images of stoic Protestants whose kids eat oatmeal and memorize the Westminster Confession of Faith. Reverend Maclean, the Montana minister and father figure played by Tom Skerritt in A River Runs Through It, comes to mind. Presbyterians don't "fall" in love—they rationally, and with good sense, ease themselves into it.
This was my image of Presbyterians until I read the correspondence of Philip Vickers Fithian. Most early American historians know Philip Vickers Fithian. He was the uptight young Presbyterian who served a year (1773-1774) as a tutor at Nomini Hall, the Virginia plantation of Robert Carter, and wrote a magnificently detailed diary about his experience. For most of us, Fithian is valued for his skills as an observer. His journal offers one of our best glimpses into plantation life in the Old Dominion on the eve of the American Revolution.
But despite Fithian's ubiquitous presence in the indexes and footnotes of contemporary works of Virginia scholarship, most of us know little more about him than the very barest facts: He was born in 1747 in the southern New Jersey town of Greenwich. He was the eldest son of Presbyterian farmers but left the agricultural life in 1770 to attend the College of New Jersey at Princeton. After college he worked for a year on Carter's plantation and was ordained to the Presbyterian ministry. In 1776 he headed off to New York to serve as a chaplain with a New Jersey militia unit in the American War for Independence.
Such chronicling—the stuff of encyclopedia entries and biographical dictionaries—only scratches the surface of Philip's life. It fails to acknowledge the inner man, the prolific writer who used words—letters and diary entries mostly—to make peace with the ideas that warred for his soul. Philip was a man of passion raised in a Presbyterian world of order. He came of age at a time when Presbyterians were rejecting the pious enthusiasm of the Great Awakening for a common-sense view of Christianity. And while Philip was clearly a student of this newer rational and moderate Protestantism, he remained unquestionably Presbyterian. For he was a man stretched between worlds: one of cautious belief, another of passion and sentiment; one of rational learning, another of devotion and deep emotion. His struggle to bring these worlds together is seen most clearly not in his well-known observations of plantation life but in his letters to the woman he loved—Elizabeth Beatty.
Philip first met Elizabeth "Betsy" Beatty in the spring of 1770 when she visited the southern New Jersey town of Deerfield to attend her sister Mary's wedding to Enoch Green, the local Presbyterian minister. It may not have been love at first site, but it was close. Philip was enrolled in Green's preparatory academy, and Betsy was the daughter of Charles Beatty, the minister of the Presbyterian church of Neshaminy, Pennsylvania, and one of the colonies' most respected clergymen.
Betsy was a new face in Deerfield, a fact that made her especially enchanting to the town's young men. Philip had spent enough time with Betsy while she was visiting to begin a friendly correspondence with her. In his first letter, written shortly after she returned to Neshaminy, Philip wrote, "You can scarcely conceive . . . how melancholy, Spiritless, & forsaken you left Several when you left Deerfield!" He hoped for a prominent place "in this gloomy Row of the disappointed." Since Betsy had departed Deerfield he could not "walk nor read, nor talk, nor ride, nor sleep, nor live, with any Stomach!" The "transient golden Minutes" they had spent together, he added, "only fully persuaded me how much real Happiness may be had in your Society." Philip was smitten.
Betsy did not reply to this letter, and Philip's obsession waned as he headed off to college in the fall of 1770. While he was there Philip had more than one opportunity to see Betsy again. He joined fellow classmates on weekend excursions to visit Charles Beatty's church at Neshaminy, and it was during these visits that he made his first serious attempts to court Betsy. Though Philip and Betsy would spend much time together over the course of the next several years, the establishment of a correspondence was equally important to the development of their relationship. Betsy had given Philip permission to write her, a clear sign that she approved of his desire to move the friendship forward. By February 1772 he was signing his letters with the name "Philander" ("loving Friend"), an obvious indicator of his affection for his new correspondent.
Though much of Philip and Betsy's courtship was conducted through letters, the exchange of sentiments usually flowed in only one direction. Perhaps Betsy did not like to write. Perhaps she preferred more intimate encounters or feared the lack of privacy inherent in letter writing. Or perhaps she did not want to encourage her suitor with a reply. Whatever the case, women generally did not write as much as men, especially when it came to love and courtship letters. In other words, Betsy may simply have been following the conventions of her day.
By summer 1772 Philip's visits to Neshaminy became more frequent and his letters became more sentimental. He now began to address Betsy as "Laura" (a probable reference to Petrarch's devotion to Laura), a name of affection that he would use for the rest of his life, and he now felt comfortable sharing the daydreams that distracted him from his studies at Princeton. "I lead you by the Hand in a cool bright Evening, & once more, in that lovely garden oh! in that pleasant, pleasant Garden, hold Conversation in Rapture with you!
The first letter that Fithian wrote to Elizabeth Beatty, dated July 15, 1770. From the Fithian Papers, Manuscripts Division, Department of Rare Books and Special Collections, Princeton University Library. Courtesy of the Princeton University Library. Click for an enlargement. Click here for a transcription.
One of the many turning points in the relationship occurred following the death of Betsy's father in September 1772. Charles Beatty had died prematurely during a fund-raising visit to Barbados on behalf of the College of New Jersey. Philip's sympathy for Betsy was authentic. He had lost his parents seven months earlier to an unknown disease, and now Betsy's mourning excited in him "a fresh & feeling sense of the same Pain, which had not yet Subsided, when on a sudden it was renewed & increased by Sympathy with you." Using Calvinist language that would have been consoling to the daughter of a Presbyterian minister, Philip tried to comfort Betsy. "It hath pleasured Heaven, whose work we ought to view & reverence, to make you & I & our families orphans! The ways of Providence are indeed mysterious & the Design is to us unknown." He connected on a deep level with Betsy during this season of sorrow. Her mother had died in 1768 when she was a teenager, and now she, like Philip, was without parents. This shared experience brought the couple closer together. Ten days later, while she visited Philip at Princeton's graduation, Betsy gave him, in his words, "an expressive & visible Token, or Pledge, of . . . real Friendship." Though the nature of the pledge is unclear, Philip was pleased by it.
Things seemed to be going well between Philip and Betsy as the summer of 1772 gave way to autumn. Betsy continued to make regular trips to Deerfield to visit her sister, and Philip, who had recently completed his studies at the College of New Jersey and had moved back home, embarked on the occasional visit to Princeton to see friends. There would, in other words, be ample opportunity to sustain the courtship. However, somewhere along the way things went terribly wrong. Philip, it appears, mistook Betsy's September 1772 pledge of friendship for something much more. In the months after his college graduation he began to come on strong—a bit too strong for Betsy. His letters were now full of romantic gestures and flowery disclosures of his sentiments. In December, while visiting Princeton, Philip proposed marriage (Betsy was in Deerfield at the time) in a passion-filled letter that he would later describe as a "wild and incoherent epistle." He told Betsy that he would be back in Deerfield the following day and encouraged her to "consult with your own Heart" so that they could discuss his offer. He would then ask her for "a full and conclusive Answer."
Philip was making demands, but he knew Betsy was the one in control. We do not know the details of what happened on December 3, 1772, but the Deerfield meeting did not go well for Philip. Betsy rejected his proposal. Twelve days later he sounded like a man who had been scorned. He sent Betsy a long poem, which included the lines, "Why does my Heart these raging Tortures feel/Whose Force I cannot from the World conceal?" Philip was left to pick up the pieces.
Greenwich home where Philip Vickers Fithian was born. Courtesy of the Lummis Library, Cumberland County (N.J.) Historical Society.
By the end of the month the gossip mill was churning in this rural world of Greenwich and Deerfield, and Philip thought he now understood the reason for Betsy's decision. According to what Philip had heard, Betsy did not take his proposal seriously because of his reputation for gallantry. Betsy had heard a rumor that she was not the first or only woman to whom Philip had proposed marriage. We cannot be sure if this accusation was true, but in Philip's defense, there is no evidence of a marriage proposal to another woman in any of his extant writings. He seems to have been justified when he wrote to defend himself and his reputation. On the other hand, Philip was no stranger to the company of young Presbyterian ladies. He had been accused of gallantry before and would be accused of it again. Yet, he insisted that his proposal to Betsy "was the first & only one, of the like Nature that I ever made." Somewhere along the way Betsy had received some false information.
The rumors were nonetheless terribly embarrassing for a Presbyterian gentleman who was expected to be above such small capitulations to passion. Philip realized that his reputation would only be salvaged once he ended his relationship with Betsy. He thus announced his intention to "renounce, abjure & annul every Tie, Band, Engagement, or Penalty" between them. This young Presbyterian had learned a valuable lesson. His affections had been too strong and irrational. As one of his Princeton teachers, the theologian and moral philosopher John Witherspoon, had taught, enlightened men were, above all else, rational beings. If a society were to be virtuous and refined, the passions had to be regulated. Failures of self-control reflected failures of reason, and for most Presbyterians of Philip's generation, failures of reason were also moral failures.
Of course love conquers all, so they say, including arch reason. And Philip could not forget Betsy—even if he had wanted to. She continued to appear in Deerfield, and Philip, who was then living and studying with Green in preparation for his Presbyterian ministerial licensing exam, could not help but see her. Not surprisingly he found Betsy acting "cold" and "indifferent." Unable to bear the awkward meetings, he decided to resort to the pen once again.
In his first letter in three months, Philip confessed that his marriage proposal of the previous December had been poorly timed and was the result of "over-anxious Desire," but he admitted that Betsy's current indifference toward him was stirring his passions into a "strange Commotion." Philip remained persistent, refusing to take Betsy's coldness as a sign of rejection. Still, a feeling of desperation overcame him, and he ended up pleading with Betsy to take him back, telling her that he was "in the fullest sense" her "Slave."
From 1765 to 1776 the Reverend Enoch Green pastored the Deerfield Presbyterian Church (built in 1771, but shown here as it stood in 1858). Philip Vickers Fithian studied at Green's Presbyterian academy to prepare for matriculation at the College of New Jersey in Princeton and later received instruction for Presbyterian ordination from Green. Courtesy of the Lummis Library, Cumberland County (N.J.) Historical Society.
Philip continued with the letters and poetry but to no avail. He pulled out all the stops to get his "dear Laura" back, writing, "Why does my silly Bosom rise/And vent its grief with fruitless sighs?/Shall I sit whining over my pain/And die for one I can't obtain?/Have I been kept so long at School/To die of Love, as dies the Fool . . . " This kind of romantic poetry exposes the tensions Philip was feeling. His schooling at Princeton had taught him to guard his passions, but his love for Betsy seemed uncontrollable.
By late spring 1773 Betsy had returned to Pennsylvania, and Philip had immersed himself in his studies. He did not write to her again until August. The occasion for renewing his correspondence was a trip he had made to Princeton to discuss a job opportunity on Carter's Virginia plantation. During his stay he took a familiar ride into the country to see Betsy's brothers in Neshaminy. Betsy was also there, and Philip had the occasion to drink tea with her and engage in "some fine Conversation." Days later Philip wrote to her about the momentous decision he had before him regarding his tutoring opportunity in Virginia. Though Philip would remain with the Carters for only one year, at this stage the ultimate length of his stay was uncertain. In the event that the move would be permanent, he would have to know where he stood with Betsy. How would she respond to his decision to go to Virginia—a place far removed from the Presbyterian orbit in which she traveled?
Judging from Philip's behavior over the coming months, her response was as he would have wanted, but in a fashion typical of dueling lovers, Philip nonetheless chose to leave for Virginia. Even with Betsy's renewed affection, the two could not commit to each other. After arriving in Virginia, Philip wrote that had Betsy been "less uncertain of her future Purpose" he would never have left Deerfield.
Philip corresponded with many of his friends during his stay in Virginia, but no one received more letters than Betsy. His epistles from Virginia were not overly passionate, but we know that privately he continued to find it difficult to exercise restraint. "In Spite of all my strongest opposing efforts," he wrote, "my thoughts dwell on that Vixen Laura. I strive to refuse them admission, or harbour them in my heart, yet like hidden fire they introduce themselves, & seize, & overcome me when perhaps I am pursuing some amusing or useful Study." Though he was enjoying his time with the Carter family and learning a great deal about Virginia, he could not help "reflecting on my situation last winter, which was near the lovely Laura for whom I cannot but have the truest, and warmest esteem possible! If Heaven shall preserve my life, in some future time, I may again enjoy her good society."
Greenwich, New Jersey, from the banks of the Cohansey River (ca. 1800). Philip Vickers Fithian's beloved hometown of Greenwich, New Jersey, was a small village nestled along the Cohansey River. The town dates back to the original English settlement of the region in 1676 by the Quaker proprietor John Fenwick. Courtesy Lummis Library, Cumberland County (N.J.) Historical Society.
During his stay with the Carters, Philip had multiple opportunities to meet and court the daughters of some of Virginia's most prominent planters. Matchmaking was a popular social practice in plantation Virginia, and the Carters were constantly trying to find their new tutor a suitable marriage partner in the hopes that he would take up permanent residence in the Northern Neck. Philip delighted in his chance to meet these young ladies, but he also made it clear in both his public declarations and private writings that his heart belonged to Betsy. He remained so devoted to her that the Carter boys, who were notorious for their infatuations with the girls in the neighborhood, wondered whether their tutor ever thought about the opposite sex. "Yes, Harry, & Bob," Philip responded in his diary, "Fithian is vulnerable by Cupid's Arrows—I assure you, Boys, he is, Not by the Girls of Westmoreland—O my dear Laura, I would not injure your friendly Spirit; So long as I breathe Heavens vital air I am unconditionally & wholly Yours."
As Philip became more assured that Betsy was interested in hearing from him, his correspondence grew more florid.
Perhaps it is not coincidental that this change of tone corresponded with changes in Philip's reading habits. While in Virginia, he had time to digest some of the era's most popular fiction, particularly that of Laurence Sterne. Philip had started reading Sterne's Letters from Yorick to Eliza (1773), composed as a series of love letters between Yorick, an Anglican minister (a pseudonym for Sterne), and Eliza Draper, a young married woman with whom Sterne had carried on a three-month affair. The letters are so laden with passion and maudlin sentiment that it is hard not to think—as some modern scholars have—that Sterne was simply parodying the social conventions of his age. Any irony, however, seems to have escaped the Presbyterian Fithian. His letters are exemplars of the form and style caricatured by Sterne. Of course it may have been especially difficult for Philip to detect Sterne's irony since his plight paralleled so closely that of Yorick. Both were infatuated with women named Eliza; both were ministers; both found themselves living at great distance from the object of their affections; and both faced the daunting obstacle of keeping passion's fire aflame with nothing more than paper and quill pen.
Further intertwining his life with Sterne's art, Philip began copying passages from Sterne in his letters, simply replacing the name "Eliza" with that of "Laura." Sterne toasted Eliza at his elaborate dinner parties, and Philip toasted Betsy before similar events on the Carter plantation. Sterne encouraged Eliza to begin the practice of rereading his letters to her in India and then, when time permitted, to put them in chronological order as a means of remembering him during their period of separation. Philip did not ask Betsy to do the same with his letters (he wondered if she even saved them), nor could Philip sort the correspondence he received from Betsy since he had only, at the most, two letters. What he could do, however, was organize the copies of the letters he had sent. In May 1774 he wrote her what he called a "chronological" letter cataloging the theme of every piece of correspondence he had sent since they first became acquainted four years earlier.
By modeling his correspondence on Sterne's letters to Eliza, Philip was fashioning himself as a man of feeling. By the second half of the eighteenth century, Enlightenment rationalism was under attack from a culture of sensibility that celebrated a new kind of gentleman. This new man was no longer asked to govern himself by the dictates of reason alone but was invited to express his emotions in public and private, even to his female friends and correspondents. A real gentleman was thus able to communicate his affections for the opposite sex in much the same way that Sterne had done with Eliza and, to some extent, the way Philip was doing in his letters to Betsy. The culture of sensibility offered Philip a language that, unlike the Presbyterian rationalism in which he was raised and educated, did not condemn his passionate side.
As many warned, and as Philip no doubt knew, the culture of sensibility, with its emphasis on feeling and emotion, could turn destructive. Passions detached from an equally strong rational faculty could undermine the rational foundation of social order. While it is understandable that Philip would have found a kindred spirit in Yorick, he thus could not allow himself—as Yorick was in danger of doing—to become enslaved by his passions. The moral philosophers who advocated sentimental behavior as a means of sustaining a virtuous society made sure to stress that such affections needed always to be held in check by reason. The man of feeling was not an emotional enthusiast but instead pursued a "moderated sensibility." For Philip, this was easier said than done.
Sentimental fiction and the passions it could elicit from readers such as Philip were also dangerous from the perspective of Philip's religion. Laurence Sterne was not the kind of author Presbyterian ministers normally turned to when they wanted to teach their parishioners about courtship and marriage. John Witherspoon, Philip's Princeton mentor, believed that writers like Sterne promoted ideas about the opposite sex that were "impossible to gratify." Such literature relegated the God-given institution of marriage to the "scoffs of the libertines." Philip's letters suggest that he never quite forgot Dr. Witherspoon's lessons. However much he may have identified with Yorick, he never let his passions get the better of him. In this sense, he remained the true Presbyterian.
Joy and tragedy characterized the rest of Philip and Betsy's Presbyterian love affair. Upon his return from Virginia, Philip was licensed as a Presbyterian minister. The Philadelphia presbytery sent him to the Susquehanna and Shenandoah River valleys as an itinerant missionary to the Scots-Irish settlers in these regions. But before he left he had managed to win Betsy's heart. Whatever reservations she may have once had about pursuing a relationship with Philip had all but disappeared. As he prepared to head west, he paused for a heartfelt and emotional good-bye with the woman he loved. Betsy wept during the course of their conversation; her tears, Philip wrote, "drowned me in melancholy Rapture." As she held Philip's hand, he sat in a "mournful Posture by her Side."
This is the probable site of the Reverend Enoch Green's Presbyterian academy in Deerfield, New Jersey. Presbyterians believed that remote or rural locations were the best places to construct such academies because they afforded little distraction from study and intellectual reflection. Photo courtesy of the author.
Philip left for the backcountry with marriage on his mind. He and Betsy had had their share of difficult moments together, but their relationship now appeared to be secure. During a break in his itinerant tour, on October 27, 1775, the couple wed at the Deerfield Presbyterian Church. Whatever kind of honeymoon the newlyweds enjoyed was short lived. Philip needed to finish his missionary tour.
In May 1776, after returning to Greenwich, Philip was assigned to preach before his home congregation, the Greenwich Presbyterian Church. He and Betsy probably settled down in the local farm house in which he had been born and raised. But whatever wedded bliss they shared would not last long, for these were revolutionary times, and Philip, like most Presbyterians of his age, was a patriot.
Only a few weeks into his preaching stint at Greenwich, duty called once again. By mid-July 1776 Philip was serving as a chaplain to a regiment of New Jersey militia stationed in New York City. He would soon find himself in the midst of the Battle of Brooklyn, preaching weekly sermons to the troops and ministering to their physical and spiritual needs. Through it all he kept in close contact with Betsy, reporting on the events of the war, instructing her on business matters, and reaffirming his love for her. After the Battle of Harlem Heights, with Philip's regiment stationed near Mount Washington, New York, dysentery entered the camp. Philip would become one of its victims. On September 19, he wrote Betsy about his return to Greenwich and his hopes for their renewed life together. He ended the epistle with a prayer: "Peace & God's Blessing be with my Betsey, my dear Wife, forever may you be happy." It was the last letter Philip Vickers Fithian would ever write.
John Fea teaches American history at Messiah College in Grantham, Pa. He is the author of The Way of Improvement Leads Home: Philip Vickers Fithian and the Rural Enlightenment in Early America (2008).


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Monument record MNL 637 - West Row Primary School, Mildenhall
Evaluation identified substantial evidence of Roman activity in the 2nd-4th centuries.
TL67NE
MILDENHALL, FOREST HEATH, SUFFOLK
DITCH (Post Medieval - 1540 AD to 1900 AD)
PIT (Roman - 43 AD to 409 AD)
GULLY (Roman - 43 AD to 409 AD)
LAYER (Roman - 43 AD to 409 AD)
2010: An archaeological evaluation, carried out on land at West Row Primary School, Mildenhall, has identified substantial evidence of Roman activity in the 2nd-4th centuries. The results, in combination with previous work to the north and south, indicate that a spread of Roman occupation evidence extends across the school grounds. A dense spread of features indicates relatively intense activity. The finds assemblage and environmental evidence suggests domestic occupation, probably a rural, agricultural farmstead, and indicates that a building with a tiled roof lay in the immediate vicinity. Later Roman deposits or occupation soils may have been removed by subsequent activity such as ploughing. Recommendations have been made to excavate in full the footprint of a proposed school extension, whilst other deposits can be left in situ below a proposed playground, depending upon the method of construction (S1).
2011: Archaeological excavation and monitoring were carried out on the playground and sports field at West Row Primary School, Mildenhall, Suffolk. The work revealed well preserved and intensive use of the site throughout the Roman period, indicated by a large quarry pit and a poorly surviving soil layer, both of which contained large quantities of pottery and animal bone, as well as CBM, fired clay, quernstone, iron nails, marine shells, and other material. There were also several smaller late Roman pits/small linear features. Roman coins were found scattered over both areas of the fieldwork. The finds, as well as the environmental samples indicated that it is likely that many agricultural and food processing tasks were occurring nearby, possibly to supply the local villa, although it is thought that a domestic structure of some importance is also likely to have been located close to or on the site. Other features included two ditches which were probably post-medieval and are likely to have been part of the fenland agricultural drainage works in the area.
<S1> SSF53653 Unpublished document: Craven, J.. 2010. Archaeological Evaluation Report, West Row Primary School, Mildenhall, MNL 637.
<S2> SSF54449 Unpublished document: Brooks R & Tester A. 2012. Archaeological Excavation Report, West Row Primary School New Classroom and MUGA pitch, Beeches Road, Mildenhall.
FSF34816: POTTERY (Roman - 43 AD to 409 AD)
FSF34817: TEGULA (Roman - 43 AD to 409 AD)
FSF34818: COIN (Roman - 43 AD to 409 AD)
FSF36027: POTTERY (Post Medieval - 1540 AD to 1900 AD)
FSF36028: IMBREX (Roman - 43 AD to 409 AD)
FSF36029: FLUE TILE (Roman - 43 AD to 409 AD)
FSF36030: BRICK (Roman - 43 AD to 409 AD)
FSF36031: QUERN (Roman - 43 AD to 409 AD)
FSF36032: SPINDLE WHORL (Roman - 43 AD to 409 AD)
FSF36033: COSMETIC SPOON (Roman - 43 AD to 409 AD)
FSF36034: ANIMAL REMAINS (Roman - 43 AD to 409 AD)
FSF36035: ANIMAL REMAINS (Post Medieval - 1540 AD to 1900 AD)
FSF36036: OYSTER SHELL (Roman - 43 AD to 409 AD)
FSF36037: PLANT REMAINS (Roman - 43 AD to 409 AD)
Event - Intervention: Evaluation at West Row Primary School, Mildenhall (Ref: OASIS-suffolkc1-80501) (ESF20689)
Event - Intervention: Excavation at West Row Primary School Excavation, Mildenhall (Ref: OASIS-suffolkc1-105425) (ESF21498)
Jun 19 2012 4:38PM

redpajama_set_name: RedPajamaCommonCrawl


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It was the girl's birthday, and her boyfriend had her naked and tied, spread eagle and blindfolded on a table. He had a vibrator inside her, set on low. He had rubbed her clit just enough to make it stand up and beg for more, then he left.
The vibrator was just enough to keep her very aroused, but not enough to satisfy, and she was tied in a way so that she couldn't move — couldn't adjust the vibrator to move it to a better location, couldn't get any relief on her throbbing clit!
He left her like that for a while…then he came back…she could smell his cologne, so she knew he was in the room…but he didn't say or do anything. She could just tell he was there…waiting or watching, she didn't know…and that, of course, added to the suspense and excitement. Of course, he was sitting there, watching her…he had already set up the video camera…his friend, Gus, was there, too…just watching…waiting.
Of course, they'd only be able to sit and watch for so long…
Her cunt is pretty hot…the her boyfriend decides she needs to be cooled off a little…….maybe he should on it to cool it off…….or…maybe an ice cube…hhhhhhhmmmmm……….
He goes to her, takes the vibrator out, rub an ice cube on her clit and then inserts the ice cube insider her, then replaces the vibrator.
Then, he decides to fuck her a while with his big, hard cock…with that cold ice in there, contrasting with the heat of their bodies…
He has ice nearby, to cool her off when she needs it…he doesn't want her to come yet but he comes inside her…then puts that vibrator back inside her, still set on low, and leaves her like that again,
just watching her
After a while…Gus makes his presence known to her…he starts sucking on her nipples, and she can tell that it's not her boyfriend. He slowly kneads her breasts with his hands, sucking on her nipples, lightly biting them, pulling on them, squeezing them…even slapping them a little while he's playing with her breasts, her boyfriend starts caressing the insides of her thighs, and her ass…staying away from her pussy though just teasing and tormenting…sweet, sweet torture! This could go on all night…just depends on what the boyfriend wants and how much she begs!
While Gus keeps playing with her breasts, her boyfriend starts licking and sucking on her clit and turns that vibrator on high and starts fucking her with it. It doesn't take long before she's screaming…in the midst of an earth-shattering orgasm!
When the orgasm subsides…out come the ice cubes! He puts 2 or 3 ice cubes inside her cunt and holds one directly on her clit. He has to cool her down and desensitize her a bit…….he knows ankara moldovyalı escortlar she's too sensitive now… then things start to really heat up!
Gus starts licking and kissing and rubbing all over her…not just her breasts anymore…her breasts, stomach, sides…still squeezing and kneading and massaging everything… slapping her breasts…pinching the nipples, pulling at them…biting and sucking on them. Then he climbs on top of her and starts rubbing his cock between her breasts, fucking her breasts while he squeezes and pulls at them with his hands. The boyfriend is going on to bigger and better things too.
He lubes that vibrator up and inserts it into her…ass! Then he rams his rock-hard cock into her pussy and starts fucking her HARD!! He has that vibrator turned on full power and is giving her cunt full power of his own! One guy fucking and squeezing her breasts…another guy slamming in and out of her cunt…and a throbbing dildo in her ass she's going crazy…and she still can't move…can't do anything to add to the feeling or adjust her position…just has to lie there and take it!! She can't even see what they're doing!!!
Well…while her boyfriend is pumping away inside her cunt, he tells her not to cum until he says she can but of course, that's not an easy thing to control, and she comes anyway. So…the guys go ahead and finish…he comes inside her…the other guy comes on her chest…but then he tells her that since she came before he gave her permission, she has to be punished!
So, for the first time all day, he unties her…only to make her roll over so he can tie her back up! Now she's still spread eagle and blindfolded, but on her stomach. Then the ice goes in her pussy and on her clit again to cool her off and she waits to see what her punishment will be. They put a couple of pillows under her hips to hold her pussy up off the bed…they don't want her to be able to rub it at all. He puts a slowly vibrating dildo in her ass and leaves her like that for quite a while…the guys turn on a ball game and ignore her for a while she knows they're there…and she can hear the ball game and hear them talking sometimes. After what seems like forever to her, her boyfriend comes to the bed and tells her it's time for her punishment.
He starts spanking her bare ass, hard, with his hand, but then he realizes that she's enjoying it!! This is supposed to be punishment! So he walks over to a drawer, and gets out a small whip…and starts whipping her ass with it…it's not enough to really hurt, just stings a little bit. It's actually very erotic, and she starts enjoying it too…so he whips her harder; each blow gives an ankara ukraynalı escortlar initial sting, but then a sort of warmth that radiates over her ass and up into her cunt and makes her very aroused. He has to put more ice in her cunt! Then he decides to try a wooden paddle. This hurts a little bit and she starts wiggling, trying to avoid the blows…of course, she can't move, but the effort of trying to move is arousing, and makes her forget about the minor pain of the paddle. Her boyfriend finally gives up!
Then he tells her that it's time for the second part of her punishment. She feels hands on her ass, spreading her cheeks and feels a finger slide into her ass…lubing it up…then her boyfriend tells her that Gus is going to fuck her ass…she remembers how large his cock felt between her breasts…and by now, she thinks she knows who the guy is and he's a very large, muscular man anyway…she doesn't know how his big cock will possibly fit into her ass!! But she feels first one, then two, then 3 fingers slide into her ass…lubing it up…getting it ready.
Then the fingers come out and she feels the head of his cock positioned at her anus. His large hands grab her ass cheeks and squeeze hard as he pushes the head of his cock inside her! Then, he squeezes her ass cheeks even harder and rams his cock up insider her!! She feels like she's being split open!! But he quickly pulls back out, giving her momentary relief, then rams in again – HARD — …and pulls out…in and out…in and out…each time, going farther into her…deeper. He finally has his entire cock in her ass and starts ramming her ass…harder and deeper, mercilessly……………..over and over. Meanwhile, her boyfriend gives up on the punishment idea and starts massaging her breasts. He knows she likes them squeezed and pulled on — almost roughly — and he does just that. Her ass is so hot now!! She's getting close to coming again…just before Gus fills her ass with his juice, her boyfriend reaches down and starts rubbing her clit so that she comes at the same time afterward…out comes the ice again…two in her ass…a couple in her cunt…and a whole ice pack placed directly on her entire crotch! Her boyfriend tells her to rest because they have one more little treat for her tonight.
After they rest for a while, her boyfriend comes over and starts gently washing her off with a warm wash cloth. The warmth of the wash cloth is soothing and when he washes her crotch area, even though he tries to hurry, she starts getting aroused again he tells her to calm down…wait. He gets her cleaned up, and then he says he's going to untie her, but she's not to move. She agrees, so he unties her — she's ankara minyon tipli escortlar still blindfolded — and he turns her back over onto her back. He helps her to stand up, and he ties her hands behind her back. Then both men start rubbing her body…all over…just caressing and squeezing…lots of light, playful slaps on her ass and breasts… rubbing between her legs…getting her wet again
even rubbing their cocks between her legs, getting them wet with her juices when she's good and wet again, Gus easily lifts her off the floor and then sets her back down again…with her entire weight resting on his cock, which is now embedded deeply inside of her! Her feet no longer touch the floor.
She is moaning with pleasure and anticipation, trying to fuck that cock, but can't get any leverage…he holds her still so that she can't move. She's moaning in frustration but still, he just stands there…not moving…that huge hard cock deep inside her cunt…all of her weight resting on it and her pussy.
Then her boyfriend comes up behind her and rams his cock deep inside her ass!! She can't believe it!! She has 2 huge cocks inside her now!!! She feels so filled up…she might split wide open!! She starts squirming…trying to get relief…but they hold her still…won't let her move. Then Gus takes hold of her and lifts her up…so that both cocks almost come out of her — almost, but not quite — then he drops her back down on them…HARD!! She feels both of those rock-hard cocks ram into her at the same time and slam into her pussy and ass! Gus does this several times…again and again… both men have come several times already this day, so by now they are able to last a long time. After a while, Gus tires of lifting her so the guys develop a rhythm…when one guy thrusts, the other pulls out…then when the first guy pulls out, the other thrusts… in and out…constantly having one of her holes filled and rammed…the guys are rock-hard and merciless now. They ram both her holes over and over…both men holding her still so that she can't move at all to help ease her throbbing clit! They want this one to last a long time…so they try not to touch her clit and with her arms tied behind her, there's not much she can do except ride the ride! The guys are able to keep this up for a full 20 minutes before they both finally explode into her together…their orgasm triggers hers and she finally gets release
but…the guys stay inside her…with the way they're positioned, they're able to stay inside her and keep her held off the floor. And to her surprise, she realizes that they are still hard!!!
They begin to fuck her some more, in the same way!! This time though, they finally untie her hands and remove the blindfold, and let her move and "help" in the pleasure and they fuck both her holes – even harder and more mercilessly this time — until all 3 of them come again and then they collapse on the bed and go to sleep and live happily ever after! The End.


text:
Home > Policy Manual > Volume 9 - Waivers
8 CFR 212.7 - Waiver of certain grounds of inadmissibility
INA 204(l) - Surviving relative consideration for certain petitions and applications
INA 207(c)(3), 8 CFR 207.3 - Waivers of grounds of inadmissibility for refugees
INA 207, 8 CFR 207 - Annual admission of refugees and admission of emergency situation refugees
INA 209(c), 8 CFR 209.1(f) - Adjustment of status for refugees and asylees - waiver of inadmissibility
INA 209, 8 CFR 209 - Adjustment of status of refugees and asylees
INA 210(c)(2)(B)(i) - Waiver of grounds of inadmissibility for special agricultural workers
INA 210, 8 CFR 210 - Special agricultural workers
INA 211, 8 CFR 211 - Admission of immigrants into the United States
INA 212(a)(9)(B)(v) - Waiver of the 3-year or 10-year unlawful presence bar
INA 212(d)(13) - Waiver of grounds of inadmissibility for T nonimmigrants
INA 212(d)(14) - Waiver of grounds of inadmissibility for U nonimmigrants
INA 212(d)(3) - Nonimmigrant waiver of inadmissibility
INA 212(h)(1)(B) - Waiver for certain criminal and related grounds
INA 212, 8 CFR 212 - Excludable aliens
INA 214, 8 CFR 214 - Admission of nonimmigrants
INA 244(c)(2), 8 CFR 244.3 - Temporary protected status - applicability and waiver of grounds of inadmissibility
INA 244, 8 CFR 244 - Temporary protected status
INA 245, 8 CFR 245 - Adjustment of status of nonimmigrant to that of person admitted for permanent residence
INA 245A(d)(2)(B)(i) - Waiver of grounds of inadmissibility for certain adjustment of status entrants before January 1, 1982
INA 245A, 8 CFR 245a - Adjustment of status of certain entrants before January 1, 1982 to that of person admitted for lawful residence
I-130, Petition for Alien Relative
I-192, Application for Advance Permission to Enter as a Nonimmigrant
I-212, Application for Permission to Reapply for Admission into the United States After Deportation or Removal
I-360, Petition for Amerasian, Widow(er), or Special Immigrant
I-601A, Application for Provisional Unlawful Presence Waiver
Technical Update - Communicating with Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
This technical update removes references to sending documents to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) by mail or fax. CDC now prefers all requests for waiver consultations and any subsequent notifications from USCIS to be communicated by email.
9 USCIS-PM C.2 - Chapter 2 - Waiver of Communicable Disease of Public Health Significance
9 USCIS-PM C.4 - Chapter 4 - Waiver of Physical or Mental Disorder Accompanied by Harmful Behavior
POLICY ALERT - Waiver Policies and Procedures
U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS) is issuing policy guidance to address the general policies and procedures applicable to the adjudication of waivers of inadmissibility.
9 USCIS-PM A - Part A - Waiver Policies and Procedures
POLICY ALERT - Determining Extreme Hardship
U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS) is issuing policy guidance on determinations of extreme hardship to qualifying relatives as required by certain statutory waiver provisions. This guidance becomes effective December 5, 2016.
9 USCIS-PM B - Part B - Extreme Hardship
Part A - Waiver Policies and Procedures
Part B - Extreme Hardship
Part C - Waivers for Health-Related Grounds of Inadmissibility
Part D - Waivers for Criminal and Related Grounds of Inadmissibility
Part E - Aliens Subject to Civil Penalty
Part F - Alien Smuggling
Part G - Waivers for Fraud or Willful Misrepresentation
Part H - Unlawful Presence
Part I - Provisional Unlawful Presence
Part J - National Interest
Part K - Family Unity, Humanitarian Purposes, or Public Interest
Part L - Nonimmigrant
Part M - Other Provisions Overcoming Inadmissibility
Part N - Motions and Appeals
← Chapter 4 - Exceptions and Waivers
Part A - Waiver Policies and Procedures →


Robert on the set of new moon. Robert on the set of new moon. Wallpaper and background images in the 로버트 패틴슨 club tagged: robert pattinson robert pattinson twilight.
This 로버트 패틴슨 photo contains 보유 셀, 홀딩 셀, 셀을 잡고, 형사 기관, 형사 시설, 형벌 기관, 셀, 감옥, and 세포.


text:
The Smurfs Games App Drives Budge Studios Past 100 Million Downloads
https://appdevelopermagazine.com/images/news_images/Budge-Studios-App-Developer-Magazine_he5kd6gn.jpg
Richard Harris in Game Development Wednesday, May 13, 2015
Budge Studios, a Canadian based children's app publisher, has announced that it has reached the 100 million app downloads threshold. The 100 millionth download came just after the launch of The Smurfs Games, a sports themed app. Other apps released by Budge Studios include Thomas & Friends, Barbie, and Strawberry Shortcake.
Budge Studios began publishing apps in 2012 and now offers a portfolio of more than 24 apps that include puzzles, creative games, and characters that make daily activities, such as bedtime routines, more entertaining. The company's first published app was Chuggington Traintastic Adventures, and they have continued a tradition of entertaining children with fun content ever since.
The studios apps are successful in North America as well as internationally. Half of the company's users are from outside North America as their app portfolio has users in more than 100 countries.
Some quick background facts include:
- The development team features 80 plus individuals in programming, art, game design, production, and marketing
- Tablets are key drivers due to their popularity with young kids
- The core audience of Budge apps is 3-8 year olds and their parents
- Budge apps are localized in at least 8 different languages
Read more: http://www.budgestudios.ca/


So far Frontera has created 11 blog entries.
Is It Worth More Than it's Weight in Gold?
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Top Pawn Shops in California and Florida!
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Jump start your Sedona trip with some much needed adventure. Take a scenic Jeep ride!
Jump start your Sedona trip with some much needed adventure. Take a scenic Jeep ride up a 100-year-old wagon trail that gradually climbs up over 2,000ft!
Don't expect this to be a quiet ride. From Sedona's 4,500ft elevation to the top of the Mogollon Rim at 7,000ft your guide will share anecdotes and fun facts. As you travel through Bear Wallow Canyon you can see the world-famous red rock cliffs known for their sheer size and awe-inspiring beauty.
Along the way, you can snap photos. On most morning and evening tours you even get the opportunity for Wildlife Viewing.
Everybody who visits this part of the world books a Jeep tour. Make the right choice and go with a professional guide in a comfy Jeep. You will see, touch, smell and learn all about the Southwest on this trip. Leave no stone unturned. Book now!
Our guide was fun and knowledgeable. We had a great time.
We would highly recommend this company. Our guide Dom was informative, a great story teller and made our trip really fun. The kids loved it.


Great information. Anyone selling Albion or Chandler in the Santa Cruz / Watsonville area?
"Any basket of berries from Watsonville Berry Bowl is Albion, and most direct sellers (farm stands)in Watsonville grow it.
Chandler is sold exclusively by Swanton Berry Farms up north of Santa Cruz on Highway One," according to Mark Bolda, UC Cooperative Extension advisor in Santa Cruz County.


This homeschool moment brought to you by trying-to-be-patient little brother (waiting for big sister to finish math).
10th grader – My Eldest Girl put together this collage of her view of homeschooling. It includes: her keyboard, laughing at Steak & Shake after a drama troupe performance, a trip to a local waterfall. Also other activities she enjoys: the youth group lead team, drama troupe, praise band, youth camp, paging at our state's capitol and hiking at the park.
It's interesting to see and hear about my children's perspective of homeschooling. Somewhat similar to my view, maybe?
Joining with the wonderful fellow bloggers of iHomeschool Network today. Be sure to click over and take a look into all the kid's views of homeschooling!
So, is it what you expected?
What a fun idea! I imagine my kid's view would be similar.
What English are you using in the second graders view point?
What a neat post! And I have a similar stack of books on one of my coffee tables right now, and normally the dinning room table most of the day too.
High five – fellow stacker!
Great post! So cool to see it through each person's 'eyes'. I have the same blue Nike's too!
Neat you have them too! Love those blue Nikes! Even better I got them for a special deal.


text:
Difference between revisions of "Talk:VCS package guidelines"
Scimmia (talk | contribs)
(→Guidelines on updating version numbers: Re)
m (→Guidelines on updating version numbers: Indent sig)
:::::"I hope we can agree that triggering the update for official releases of the package is some benefit." We can't. I really see no benefit there at all. "Given that, what's the *harm* in recommending to update pkgver?" The harm comes from annoying people using those AUR helpers you mentioned. They have correctly chosen when they want to rebuild that package, now their helper is complaining all of the time even though they don't want to rebuild right now. Trigger automatic rebuilds of VCS packages is rarely a good thing, as there are no upsides and real downsides.
:::::Your argument that it is really time intensive to rebuild your VCS packages makes no sense here, as you have to rebuild them either way. If you're unable to monitor upstream, why are you using a VCS package anyway? If you have no idea what's going on, you have no idea what you're getting when you build/rebuild it.
[[User:Scimmia|Scimmia]] ([[User talk:Scimmia|talk]]) 13:38, 11 September 2015 (UTC)
:::::[[User:Scimmia|Scimmia]] ([[User talk:Scimmia|talk]]) 13:38, 11 September 2015 (UTC)
1 Numeric vs Date Standard in Git pkgver
2 Updating a CVS repo
3 pkgver function for hg based on tags
4 shorten hg version
5 fossil
6 Locking
7 set -o pipefail
8 Guidelines on updating version numbers
Numeric vs Date Standard in Git pkgver
I'd like to see a standard emerge in AUR Git packages, but standards have to work down to the lowest common denominator. Only a small minority of GitHub projects properly tag their releases, so there can be only two LCD standards for Git packages: the Numeric standard, e.g. ("r1581.2b039da") and the Date standard, e.g. ("2014-01-01"). The date standard is much more readable, and actionable, and has the additional benefit of being backwards compatible with older Git packages.
I don't know if any standard can emerge even if we wanted it to, but please allow me to at least add the Date standard to the VCS package guidelines wiki (as opposed to scrubbing it, :).
Using the commit date would be incorrect because it doesn't refer to a specific commit and the dates are not always sequential. It would be even more wrong if it was the build date, as that doesn't refer to anything to do with the version. -- thestinger 21:33, 23 January 2015 (UTC)
it doesn't refer to a specific commit
Neither does "r1581.2b039da" refer to a specific commit without the .git repo cmdline interaction, and it is considered best practice to prune $pkgdir of .git:
find "$pkgdir" -type d -name .git -exec rm -r '{}' +
Can you explain what you mean by "the dates are not always sequential"? The Date standard looks like this:
git log -1 --format="%cd" --date=short | sed "s|-||g"
It displays the latest commit date from the upstream Git repo.
In the edge case of breaking changes occurring upstream in Git repos on the same day, then package maintainers should increment pkgrel. In practice, "2014-01-01" is much more readable and useful than "r1581.2b039da". The readability benefits of "2014-01-01" vs. "r1581.2b039da" should not be underestimated due to edge cases. --Atweiden (talk) 18:39, 24 January 2015 (UTC)
A git commit id certainly refers to a specific commit. I don't know why you think this has anything to do with shipping the VCS repository in the package. The commit date of the most recent commit may be from 20 weeks ago while the earlier commits were from last week. Git does not have a linear history. It's not going to be changed to use a version format where it can go both backwards and forwards with no way of tracing it back to the commit. Readability is worthless if the information isn't meaningful... There are 2 hard requirements: newer revisions must have higher package versions without exceptions, and it must be possible to trace it back to a commit to properly identify and report bugs. -- thestinger 18:53, 24 January 2015
I am quite certain of what a commit ID looks like, e.g. 2d5749d0315a59f4a8bf73ebbe757b227c8c17a3, not r1581.2b039da.
Can you show me where to find "r1581.2b039da" on a GitHub/BitBucket repo? It doesn't exist anywhere that I can see. You need to have the repo locally, then cd into the Git repo and run:
git rev-list --count HEAD
That is work-intensive, and it conflicts with the best practice of pruning AUR packages of .git repos.
I previously used the Wiki-recommended Numeric standard, so it's not like I haven't used it. I switched to the Date standard, updating hundreds of packages to reflect it. Why do you suppose that is?
Readability is worthless if the information isn't meaningful
You'd be hard pressed to convince me that the date "2014-01-01" is somehow *less* semantically meaningful or actionable than "r1581". I say this after maintaining for years, hundreds of Git packages in the AUR. You can tell by grepping `pacman -Q` exactly which AUR git packages are out of date with a two-second visit to GitHub. The Date standard is incredibly actionable and pragmatic not to mention simple and immediately understandable by anyone.
newer revisions must have higher package versions without exceptions
Not a problem: "2014-01-01" < "2014-01-02"
it must be possible to trace it back to a commit to properly identify and report bugs
Given how frequently "stable" Go packages and C packages pull in Git dependencies as part of their build process without specifying a certain commit, I disagree with this proposition. Why would recording the version of acmedaemon as 1.5, when it pulls in Git packages without specifying commit ID, be all that different in bug reports than "2014-01-01"? In both cases, you will not be able to track down the exact cause of the bug by commit. In both cases, you will in all likelihood end up consulting the build date. --Atweiden (talk) 03:32, 25 January 2015 (UTC)
In your scenerio, 2b039da is the short version of the commit hash and does point to a specific commit. As for where you find it on Github, it's listed on the commit log, of course. Just look at the right hand side of the page.
You'd be hard pressed to convince me that the date "2014-01-01" is somehow *less* semantically meaningful or actionable than "r1581".
In this case, human readability really is meaningless. Machine readability is all that matters.
And what happens when the commit after that is dated 2013-12-31? As thestinger pointed out, Git is not linear.
Scimmia (talk) 03:40, 25 January 2015 (UTC)
2b039da is the short version of the commit hash
Can this information be easily compared on GitHub to your local package version to check if it is out of date? The answer is no.
It is not actionable, except by cloning the repo yourself, running the Git command, and then manually scanning the Git log for short versions. It's very work-intensive.
Git is not linear
Neither are stable packages on PyPi: https://pypi.python.org/pypi/tackpy/0.9.9a
Pacman views the upgrade of 0.9.9 -> 0.9.9a as a downgrade. See https://aur.archlinux.org/packages/python2-tackpy for a real world example of this edge case. Edge cases should be no reason to prevent readers of the wiki to make informed choices about Git packaging standards. --Atweiden (talk) 04:08, 25 January 2015 (UTC)
Yes, the short hash of each commit is listed in the commit log. Also note that the revision count (the "r" number listed first) is also listed at the top of each repo's page.
As for PyPi's versioning scheme, their choice is different than what Arch's vercmp assumes. The packager needs to take this into account, just as all packagers must take upstream's idiosyncrasies into account. I don't see how it's relevant here.
You also never answered my question, what happens when the last commit is dated before the commit previous to it? This question is critical, as it would cause your versioning scheme to go backwards by any and all measures. That makes it unacceptable.
printf "r%s.%s" "$(git rev-list --count HEAD)" "$(git rev-parse --short HEAD)
The output of the above command does not correspond to any piece of information on GitHub.
If PyPi packagers should take edge cases into account for PyPi packages, then they should do the same for Git packages. Edge cases aren't reason enough to scrub a competing standard from the wiki. --Atweiden (talk) 04:23, 25 January 2015 (UTC)
I'm sorry if you can't find this information on GitHub. It's very, very plainly displayed in the places I already pointed you to. If you would take a minute to check instead of just jumping at me, you might find it.
the short hash of each commit is listed in the commit log. Also note that the revision count (the "r" number listed first) is also listed at the top of each repo's page.
This is (partially) incorrect. The short hash of each commit is not listed. What is listed in the commit log is the truncated commit ID.
The revision count point I will retract. It didn't appear to work for my own Git repos, but that was because I ran the command from a Git subrepo (edge case :). The date still has the advantage of being more human readable than r1582. If a package has version 2011-10-22, I will know this project is either unmaintained, or it's been a really long time since I last rebuilt it. All without leaving the terminal. --Atweiden (talk) 07:33, 25 January 2015 (UTC)
It's also very easy to look up or link to commits via the abbreviated commit hashes or proper identifiers produced by git describe. -- thestinger 04:33, 25 January 2015 (UTC)
That has nothing to do with non-linear history. It has to do with an incompatibility between Pacman's version comparison and the one chosen by the project. There are ways of dealing with that, but it has nothing to do with this discussion. -- thestinger 04:24, 25 January 2015 (UTC)
The ideal version is the one produced by git describe, because it's easily understood by humans (last tag, commits since last tag, abbreviated commit), is also understood by the various Git commands and GitHub and is monotonically increasing thanks to the inclusion of the last version and revision count since then. The versions it produces (10-7-g8537989) can be directly used with commands like git show. Unlike the build date, it identifies a unique revision of the project, including the state of any submodules.
The only case where another method should be used is when the project doesn't yet have any tagged release or does the releases in a way that's not very sane. The releases should be tagged on master with additional tags in stable branches for fixes backported to old releases. If this isn't the case, the git describe output needs to be emulated. A date is a poor way of doing that, because it's not connected to a specific point in the revision history.
The only case where the commit date would work is if Git is being used as a crippled centralized version control system. If all commits get created against master (no merging branches or patches) in a centralized repository where the system clock is never moved backwards, it could work... but that's not the reality of non-linear, distributed version control.
A build date is even worse, because it only refers to the local state of time and the local state of the repository. Commits from before that timestamp will often be pushed to the repository.
-- thestinger 04:24, 25 January 2015 (UTC)
A packaging standard must be compatible with the lowest common denominator. A minority of Git repos are properly tagged. The Date works as a standard, tags do not.
The output of the above command shows the date of the most recent commit. If the most recent commit date happens to come before the date of a previous commit, I do understand this is suboptimal, but I consider it an edge case. Even in big projects with contributors in different time zones you will typically see branches merged in with PRs. PRs reset the date to something recent. The linearity of Git is rarely problematic, but I do see where you're coming from (I'm also a happy user of archversion for keeping packages up to date, though archversion works with the Date standard too :) --Atweiden (talk) 04:59, 25 January 2015 (UTC)
The git describe versioning system is the standard defined and used by Git itself. The dashes need to be converted into dots for pkgver and an r may be inserted to make it clearer which part is the revision number. If version-based tags on master are available, this is the only sane way to do it.
Git defaults to fast-forwarding / applying patches without merge commits, as long as there are no conflicts. GitHub will always generate a merge commit but that's not true for anything applied / merged by the developers and then pushed to master. -- thestinger 05:24, 25 January 2015 (UTC)
You've made the claim that most git repos aren't properly tagged, not only now but to me previously. Do you have anything to back that up? IME, the large majority of projects that are in a usable state are either tagged or get tagged as they become stable.
You now have your very own untagged Git repo :).
The majority of Git repos are untagged. If you want to have a standard compatible with the lowest common denominator, by definition you cannot depend on tags being there.
I regularly package Git software in the alpha stages and software maintained by people who are unfamiliar with tagging or aren't bothered to tag. --Atweiden (talk) 07:15, 25 January 2015 (UTC)
As suggested in VCS package guidelines#Fallback, I think the only date that can be used is the build date: for example I've recently used it in a PKGBUILD for a repo without tags or branches, also appending the first 7 characters of the commit hash (the repo is not cloned, so I could only use git-ls-remote). — Kynikos (talk) 03:30, 25 January 2015 (UTC)
Updating a CVS repo
I don't use cvs. How can you describe the pkgver for cvs (for pacman 4.1)?
-- Dracorp (talk) 09:31, 6 April 2013 (UTC)
CVS is not supported in pacman 4.1 like the other VCS tools. You will need to update pkgver manually until CVS support is added.
-- Jstjohn (talk) 22:44, 15 April 2013 (UTC)
Yeah, but how about mentioning that in the article (as well as giving a download example)? Even if it's not that common anymore.
--Det (talk) 22:39, 2 May 2013 (UTC)
The download example can still be found in /usr/share/pacman/. The next version of the ABS package should update it a bit so the download happens in the prepare function where it belongs. As for pkgver, I think the generic example using date covers that, as there's not a way to get a version number from a CVS repo. Maybe a note to that effect?
-- Scimmia (talk) 07:17, 15 May 2013 (UTC)
That makes the most sense, but it might also be a good idea to rename the "Fallback" section to something like "Fallback / CVS" to make it more obvious even when you're just checking out the table of contents.
But as for ABS, as far as I can tell the last commit was over 8 months ago.
--Det (talk) 05:54, 19 May 2013 (UTC)
Hmm, there were a number of patches submitted last month for cleaning up the prototypes, looks like none have been committed yet. I do remember a discussion (IRC maybe?) questioning the proper place for the prototypes, so maybe that's why? Looking at the patches, I was mistaken anyway; they didn't update the darcs or cvs prototypes. Simple enough, I'll send in a patch myself.
--Scimmia (talk) 08:22, 19 May 2013 (UTC)
I use this dirty hack: cvs history -c -a | cut -d' ' -f2 | sort -u | tail -n 1 | sed 's|-||g" ; could probably be improved.
--Buhman (talk) 18:00, 6 June 2013 (UTC)
pkgver function for hg based on tags
I recent came across a way with hg to show the most recent tag, as well as the number of commits from this tag (similar to the output of git describe.)
pkgver() {
cd local_repo
hg log -r . --template '{latesttag}.{latesttagdistance}.{node|short}\n'
3.0.1.40.ee9a2543fcd6
Please could this be included in the page.
Garyvdm (talk) 09:03, 23 July 2013 (UTC)
shorten hg version
To prevent long package file name, It is proper to use this format
cd $_repo
_id=$(hg identify -i)
echo $(hg identify -n).${_id:0:4}
--Dlin (talk) 05:30, 26 August 2013 (UTC)
_id=$(cat manifest.uuid 2>/dev/null)
echo ${_id:0:4}
Re [1], I hope I wasn't the straw that broke the camel's back. I still fail to see why the Git section should be that large though, also in comparison to the other sections. -- Alad (talk) 11:26, 6 March 2015 (UTC)
set -o pipefail
This change mentioned set -o ... as one of the reasons for reverting, nevertheless one example using set -o pipefail still remains: VCS_package_guidelines#Git (the last example in that section). -- Lahwaacz (talk) 17:41, 6 March 2015 (UTC)
Guidelines on updating version numbers
There are a few version control AUR packages out there which use the correct combined format of release and git commit. However, sometimes the maintainers refuse to update the default pkgver upon new releases of the software, stating that it's unnecessary since it's updated automatically during installation anyway. While this is true, I personally feel it should still be the maintainer's responsibility to update the default pkgver upon actual releases (not individual commits) as otherwise a user will never receive an automatic update and instead has to force-reinstall all(!) such packages regularly.
Should we add this to the guidelines or how do others feel about this?
—This unsigned comment is by Airblader (talk) 09:51, 10 September 2015. Please sign your posts with ~~~~!
There's no official update mechanism for AUR packages, so this argument only applies to those using unofficial AUR helpers. Otherwise there's soname bumps; if the package is a library, then pkgver should likely be updated. If it is a library the package depends on, I don't know of a reliable way as pkgrel is stuck to 1 on VCS packages. After all, a soname bump could happen between releases or even commits. -- Alad (talk) 11:00, 10 September 2015 (UTC)
If you're using a VCS package, you should be paying attention to what is happening upstream and choose when you rebuild the package. Managing them the same way as release packages makes no sense.
Scimmia (talk) 13:25, 10 September 2015 (UTC)
Can you explain why it doesn't make sense to manage them the same way? One example is the package i3-git. As of writing this, it's version in the AUR is 4.10.2-xxxxx. The current i3 release is 4.10.4. So why *shouldn't* the package maintainer feel responsible to update it to 4.10.4-xxxxx? It's part of the Arch "feel" to be close to current development of software and I feel that if you maintain a package, you are responsible to update its version even if the actual installation process doesn't change. Sure I can rebuild my git packages, but that's really time intensive. I also cannot monitor all of those packages upstream with reasonable effort. This is exactly what a package management system has version numbers for and keeping them up to date is exactly what package maintainers are for, IMHO. Airblader (talk) 11:39, 11 September 2015 (UTC)
VCS packages will always build the latest revision, regardless of what pkgver on the AUR contains. If a package maintainer bumps pkgver of a VCS package, there is no assurance that the users will actually build the same (working) revision, hence the bumping makes no sense. If you need to track multiple git repos, use something like repocheck to find out if you actually need to rebuild the package. I'm sure there are similar tools for other VCS, or just write your own. -- Lahwaacz (talk) 12:13, 11 September 2015 (UTC)
I don't think that bumping makes no sense just because you build the latest version and not the one stated by pkgver. This is *always* the case, even if the version isn't bumped. The bump isn't meant to build exactly that version, it is meant to trigger an automatic update in the user's package management system that doesn't require checking out the repository and verifying it themselves. Again, IMHO this is what version numbers are for. If we don't care about such packages triggering an update or having any kind of comparable version number, what's the point in even giving them a (meaningful) number? We might as well just set pkgver=1 and be done with it, no? So why all the fancy pkgver() functions for VCS packages? I don't see how the repocheck you linked to is relevant for this. I don't have the repositories of my VCS packages laying around (only in /tmp right after I update them and only until I reboot). I'd like to approach this with a pragmatic argument: I hope we can agree that triggering the update for official releases of the package is some benefit. Given that, what's the *harm* in recommending to update pkgver? If there's an opinion that it makes no sense, that's one thing, but as long as it doesn't harm I think the small benefit sounds like reason enough to me. It's not like updating the pkgver of a package is difficult work. Airblader (talk) 13:20, 11 September 2015 (UTC)
"I hope we can agree that triggering the update for official releases of the package is some benefit." We can't. I really see no benefit there at all. "Given that, what's the *harm* in recommending to update pkgver?" The harm comes from annoying people using those AUR helpers you mentioned. They have correctly chosen when they want to rebuild that package, now their helper is complaining all of the time even though they don't want to rebuild right now. Trigger automatic rebuilds of VCS packages is rarely a good thing, as there are no upsides and real downsides.
Your argument that it is really time intensive to rebuild your VCS packages makes no sense here, as you have to rebuild them either way. If you're unable to monitor upstream, why are you using a VCS package anyway? If you have no idea what's going on, you have no idea what you're getting when you build/rebuild it.
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