text:
Keith Ellison Denies Domestic Violence
U.S. Rep. Keith Ellison denied abuse allegations involving an ex-girlfriend made by her and her son publicly on social media.
Karen Monahan' son, Austin Monahan, posted a video of Ellison assaulting his mother, screaming obscenities at her.
Ellison declined comment but his primary opponents demanded he publicly respond. The issue was, in large, ignored by main stream media until he issued his denial.
Is he telling the truth?
THE ALLEGATION
The initial post:
"In the middle of 2017, I was using my moms computer trying to download something and I clicked on a file, I found over 100 text and twitters messages and video almost 2 min long that showed Keith Ellison dragging my mama off the bed by her feet, screaming and calling her a "f—ing b—-" and telling her to get the f— out of his house."
No video was posted.
Karen Monahan tweeted the following: "What my son said is true. Every statement he made was true.@keithellison, you know you did that to me. I have given every opportunity to get help and heal. Even now, u r willing to say my son is lying and have me continue to leak more text and info just so others will believe him."
To claim a video, but not use it, raises concerns.
Expectation:
"I did not assault Karen Monahan. Therefore, any video must be fake" is a simple reliable denial. It begins with the pronoun "I" which means, psychologically, the subject is committing himself to the statement.
Since the allegation is in the past, and the event is singular (given specific description and video evidence claimed), the simple use of "didn't" or "did not" is expected.
Since Domestic Violence is specifically alleged, calling it an "assault" or anything similar, is also acceptable and expected.
THE DENIAL
Ellison issued the following denial:
"Karen and I were in a long-term relationship which ended in 2016, and I still care deeply for her well-being. This video does not exist because I never behaved in this way, and any characterization otherwise is false."
His ex wife also spoke.
When people speak, they reveal themselves; it is something we all do.
Let's look at the denial and the support statement from his ex wife.
Will his denial be "Reliable"; that is, statistically likely to be true?
Did you notice he didn't say (or write), "I didn't assault Karen"?
This would be simple and it would put him very high, statistically, for reliability.
If asked, "Why should you be believed?" regarding the denial and said, "Because I told the truth" we may know: he didn't assault her.
a. He begins with "Karen" and not with the pronoun "I" which is a subtle distancing language where, psychologically, he is not putting himself first.
Isn't this the way of respectful communication? Isn't it gentlemanly and appropriate?
No. Recall he is writing, not to tell us he was in a relationship with the accuser.
We need to see his priority: he is acknowledging a relationship with Karen; something he is not accused of.
But do you notice what he says next?
b. "The Good Guy" principle. Before he denies assaulting her, he wants his audience to know that even though the relationship "ended", he "still" (ongoing, emphasis) cares for her well-being.
Not that he cares for her (personal) but her "well-being." This is particularly interesting in that not only does he have a need to be "the good guy" (indication to the contrary), but he cares for her status of safety and living, not for her, personally.
This is indicative of a highly manipulative author.
The need to be seen as "the good person" in Statement Analysis suggests to the contrary.
It is a form of linguistic projection.
Recall the book tour of former Director of the FBI, James Comey. What was his priority?
His words reveal the need to be seen as "ethical" and righteous. This need reveals the contrary, especially as it is repeated (sensitive) and has a need of persuasion. The greater the guilt, the greater the need.
Before the subject denies assaulting her, he wants his audience to know he is a "good person" who "still cares" for his ex girlfriend.
Now to his denial:
"I did not assault her" versus:
This video does not exist because I never behaved in this way, and any characterization otherwise is false."
He does not deny assaulting her.
In Statement Analysis, we have a simple rule to follow. I have used this in court testimony when a defense attorney asks me about "lie detection."
I say, "I believe your client."
If Keith Ellison cannot deny assaulting Karen Monahan, we cannot say it for him.
This is why I have testified repeatedly, and in different allegations, "I interviewed your client for more than 2 hours. I believe him. In the interview, he did not say he did not assault the victim. I cannot say it for him."
Instead of denying hitting, dragging or cursing her, he tells us that "this video" does not exist.
Here is where his confidence rests.
Yet, the non-existence of a video is something, psychologically, heavy on his mind.
The word "this" indicates a level of closeness, while the word "that" signifies distance.
The distance could be geographical, chronological, intellectual or emotional. This is why the word "this" is used instead of "that."
Here, the video, which is said not to exist, is "close" to the subject.
If it does not exist, would a specific reference be made?
"A video cannot exist" using the article "a" would be appropriate.
Next, he has a need to tell us why such a video close to him does not exist:
"This video does not exist because I never behaved in this way, and any characterization otherwise is false."
It is to anticipate being asked, "how do you know a video does not exist?" but not waiting for it to be asked. This need to explain "why" when no such need is evident, increases the sensitivity the subject has towards the topic.
For Ellison, the topic is not assault, but visual proof of the assault.
Let's look at his denial:
"A video does not exist because I did not assault Karen..." would be, even with the word "because", a strong statement. He could even add that if a video does exist, it is a fake, in any plain language.
"...because I never behaved in this way..."
He has changed the allegation of assault to "behavior", which is natural.
"assault" is criminal but "behaved" is legally and morally neutral language.
This tells us: the subject has not only a need to refuse to deny the assault, he has a need to redefine the allegation.
Recall the myriad of child abusers who say, "I never harmed the child" rather than, "I did not assault" in any form.
This is an indication of guilt combined with manipulation. He has already "ingratiated" himself to his audience portraying himself as someone so "good" that he even cares for the "well being" of an ex girlfriend.
Did you notice how the word "this" has continued in the statement?
"this" behavior is to embrace it, closely, rather than to distance himself with "that" behavior.
Even in the avoidance of a denial, he reveals guilt.
The video is about a singular event; assaulting, grabbing, dragging and cursing the alleged victim.
This should be met with the definitive "did not" or "didn't" by the subject.
Instead, he goes to the word "never", which is to expand time to an indefinite period.
It specifically avoids mentally locking into the allegation, which he has changed into neutral language.
He is manipulative and highly intelligent. This is often a necessary combination for elected officials to deceive their constituents.
We know some things about the subject.
The subject has issued an Unreliable Denial.
If a video does not exist, the subject's denial is not to be seen as
"not reliable" but "unreliable."
He has expanded the concern over the allegation. This is to introduce vagueness.
Consider this vague statement with the classification of assault as "behavior."
This is likely not his only victim.
He has likely assaulted not only the alleged victim but others, as it is he who introduces indefinite time, which is outside the boundary of:
a. the allegation
b. the length of the relationship with this alleged victim.
c. his denial is consistent with deception by chronic abusers of women.
The support of the ex wife is now viewed to see what her verbalized perception of reality is.
Will she state that he did not assault his girlfriend?
Such a strong statement, in spite of not being an eye witness, is strong testimony of character. One can issue such a statement, and be wrong, but due to intimacy, the subject believes it is not possible.
If a loved one was accused of a crime, and you were to state, "he did not..." it would show that you do not believe it possible.
ELLISON'S EX-WIFE STATEMENT
Kim Ellison, a member of the Minneapolis School Board who at one point filed to succeed her ex-husband in Congress, issued the following statement Sunday afternoon:
"Keith and I met as teenagers when we took the same driver's training class. We were high school sweethearts, raised our four children in north Minneapolis, and were married for 25 of the 40 years we've known each other. I feel I know him better than anyone else. And, yes, it is true that we ended our marriage a few years ago, it is also true he helped me with my first run for public office. We attended our daughter's college graduation together this year, we both watched one son get sworn into office, went to our oldest son's law school graduation, and will welcome our youngest son home as he wraps his time in the military this year. We may be divorced, but we are still a family.
"I want members of our community to know that the behavior described does not match the character of the Keith I know.
"Keith has inspired many, and I think it's fair for people to want answers to the claims they've heard. I'll be putting my faith in my experience with Keith. I hope you will respect my privacy and the privacy of my children as you decide where to put your faith."
Do you note the length of the statement in comparison to Ellison's denial?
Here is a brief summary rather than in depth analysis.
a. Story telling indicates the need to portray. She begins with a romance, not a denial.
The subject is using emotional manipulation which holds her audience in contempt as easily taken off track.
b. The statement begins decades ago. An investigator should now consider that domestic violence may have been known long ago, perhaps in the form of teenaged temper. This is where she chose to begin her support of her ex husband.
c. She specifically dates 40 years of knowledge. This is a very lengthy introduction which often indicates a need to persuade rather than rely upon the psychological wall of truth. She specifically needs to engage romance, length of time and "the good guy" principle before she states her support.
This is akin to the "hina clause" of "why" we should believe her opinion.
"He did not assault her. I have known him for 40 years..." would be stronger, as the denial is the priority, and then the buttressing of experience is given.
Instead, she begins with not only experience, but specifically, romance.
d. Note the "admission" of "yes, it is true..." comes into her language where she is to be denying domestic violence.
e. The need to introduce children increases the need of both emotional manipulation and the need to persuade; it belies the veneer.
f. here, however, she reveals something critical:
The subject divides the behavior from the character.
This is very close to an admission.
This is an ancient "gnostic" belief that reveals guilt. It is commonly heard when someone says, "It is not like me to do that..." or when celebrities say, "it is not who I am", which avoids denying the activity.
The need to separate the action from the character is used in guilt.
The ex wife knows his "behavior" (see minimization above) which we may now consider why she had the need to go all the way back to teen years.
It is very likely that she has been assaulted by him and knows of others.
Note that she has a need to preface with
"I want members of our community to know" rather than state it plainly.
This is an immediate distancing from the allegation of domestic violence.
Lastly, she returns to the need of story telling (portrayal) of how "good" Ellison is. This is to reveal her need to persuade, including using emotional manipulation that he is "the good guy" in face of the allegation. This is weakness compounded as she seeks to compare an assault upon a woman with his "good" works. This is familiar language for analysts. It is akin to a thief refusing to deny the theft, instead talking about how much he has given to charity:
Analysis Conclusion: Deception Indicated
Keith Ellison is unable or unwilling to deny assaulting Karen Monahan.
He is willing to deny the existence of a video, though he is most concerned that it does exist.
I do not know if the video exists.
Keith Ellison is deceptive and from his wife's statement, it is likely that she was a victim of Domestic Violence and may have knowledge of other victims of Ellison.
If a video does not exist, and the son is lying about it, the statements by both Ellison and his ex wife reveal the truth.
Should they learn that a video does not exist, they may regret their statements.
The need to minimize the allegation of "assault" to the morally neutral "behavior" is consistent with his Islamic beliefs in which women are permitted to be physically assaulted which is called "correction" or "discipline" by the ideology.
The accuser indicates motives, including political narrative, victim status attention and possibly exploitation.
This does not change the analysis.
Given this statement and his ex wife's, if the accuser recanted, or the video be a deceptive bluff, the analysis remains the same.
We analyze for truth and deception first, and then for motive, background, experience and dominant personality traits in our pscycho-linguistic profile.
False accusers often indicate illicit motive, but we must analyze the words for veracity and deception, before we view motive.
For training in Deception Detection, for civilians and for law enforcement, click HERE.
This training is done in your home, at your own pace and begins when you want it to begin. You receive both the e version and print version, and it comes with the essential support: 12 months of e support for your work.
From detecting deception to advertising discernment to interviewing for jobs to investigations;
where there is communication, there is a need to know the truth from lies.
excellent analysis Peter. there is a lot of information in so few words.
"I want members of our community to know"
his x-wife only wants members of her community to know?
to which community is she referring?
she shows her divisive and manipulative nature.
"I hope you will respect my privacy and the privacy of my children as you decide where to put your faith."
Keith Ellison's ex-wife also allows the recipient/audience to know you can decide to "put your faith" elsewhere. subtly indicating she doesn't believe her own words.
Excellent points. If we keep digging, we'll obtain more. It is why, even if the ex girlfriend were to recant, I would not believe her. He and his ex wife guided us to the truth. Peter
In the first part of the ex-wife's statement, there are several "we", "our", etc that indicate unity. It's all the past events: We were high school sweethearts, We attended our daughter's college graduation, we both watched one son ..., ... to our oldest son's law school graduation, We may be divorced, but we are still a family. Then the 'behavior' and 'character' are separated by the following: "I want members of our community to know that the behavior described does not match the character of the Keith I know."
The remainder of the statement negates the unity of the prior paragraph: "I hope you will respect my privacy and the privacy of my children as you decide where to put your faith."
They are now "my" children, no longer "our son" or "our daughter". This speaks to a protective instinct in the mother. Is it possible that's its being brought out by the ex-wife's true knowledge of "... the character of the Keith I know". Use of the word 'children' also tends to connote a real or perceived risk to the 'child'. Use of that word indicates a real or perceived vulnerability or danger that's not present when 'son' or 'daughter' is used.
"MY son"
and WHO has been given every opportunity to get help and heal: Him? Her? The Son?
I noticed she changed from correct spellings of words to text speak
Karen Monahan tweeted the following: "What MY son said is true. Every statement he made was true.@keithellison, you know you did that to me. I have given every opportunity to get help and heal
Even now, u r willing to say MY son is lying and have me continue to leak more text and info just so others will believe him
What changed to cause her to revert to text speak?
have given every opportunity to get help and heal.
Spot the dropped pronoun
Katarina said...
Lynn Patton written statement about the Trump tape.
To be clear, at no time did I participate in a conference call with Katrina Pierson advising me, Jason Miller and Omarosa Manigault-Newman that Frank Luntz had heard President Donald J. Trump use a derogatory racial term - a claim that Luntz himself has also denied.
What I can confirm is the following:
On December 12, 2017, at approximately 11:30PM (EST) – a date I now know to be the evening Omarosa was relieved of her official duties by General Kelly - I received a telephone call from her informing me that she had personally heard a second-hand recording of President Trump using the "N-word" in a derogatory fashion.
She proceeded to tell me the full name of the individual who played this second-hand tape for her, from whom the primary audio tape had originated, as well as the specific context of the President's usage of this term and to whom the derogatory term was allegedly directed.
Omarosa also proceeded to inform me that she had officially submitted her resignation to General Kelly and that I should promptly do the same before the audio surfaced.
The next morning, I immediately notified senior communications officials and a Trump family member of the same, only to discover the true nature of her departure was termination.
Today, the individual who Omarosa confirmed to me as having played the second-hand audio recording to her last year confirmed that they have no tape, never had possession of a tape, never claimed to have possession of a tape and never played such a tape for Ms. Manigault-Newman.
Tonight, on the MSNBC program, Hardball, Omarosa revealed to the general public what she had told me last December: That former Apprentice producer, Bill Pruitt, was the original source of the "N-word" tape.
Bill Pruitt is a mutual friend.
I just spoke to Bill Pruitt tonight before releasing this statement.
He confirmed to me (before Hardball had even gone off the air) that he does NOT have an audio tape of President Trump using the "N-word" and has NEVER had an audio tape of President Trump using the "N-word." Period.
Peter, Excellent analysis!
You made so many good and accurate points.
One thing that caught my attention is how the ex-wife said "I'll be putting my faith in my experience with Keith. I hope you will respect my privacy and the privacy of my children as YOU DECIDE WHERE TO PUT YOUR FAITH".
I have noticed when certain people lie and they are confronted about it, they will attempt to blameshift by implying that it is somehow the listener who is at fault if they don't believe him or her. For example, I confronted someone about lying about something. They did not deny the accusation, rather indirectly denied it by implying they didn't do it because they claim they were not concerned in the past about the issue I was talking about therefore why would they have lied about it? When I continued pressing them, they said "Well, I guess you're gonna have to decide who to believe!!!!" in a gruff, disgusted tone, as if the blame and responsibility is not on them for lying, but rather on me if I "believe" the person who is telling me the truth. Very manipulative!
General Malaise,
Interesting, I just read your comment. That is a good way to point it, a "subtle indication she doesn't believe her own words."
https://youtu.be/2ey360lSzBc
This video gives more information on statements
The son said he opened a "file" which contained a video and messages on the PC while he was downloading.
Yet in this video the woman says the video is saved on a flash card which she isn't able to find because it would be in storage, and so she isn't able to provide it, she also claims she downloaded it first on the computer before she saved it on a flash card. So how come the son says he found a vid on the PC while she tells it would not be on the PC anymore but in storage?
Can't be both true!
Did she coerced her son to post it?
thanks Dave.
other questions I have which is not related to the accusations. WHO recorded the video and HOW and WHY?
I hope you will respect my privacy and the privacy of my children as you decide where to put your faith.
This should not be up or option. I would say on the lines of, i don't give a rats ar*e where you put your faith, he did not do "it"
Maybe it's just me, but I found the ex-wife's statement odd.
I'll be putting my faith in my experience with Keith.
She isn't putting her faith in Keith but in her experience.
This struck me odd in that her ex husband is a public figure and their statements are public. Yet she only addresses a segment that pertains to her (?). I see her "motive" to address the allegation as distancing. Speculation: The preamble is that of a strong woman. Maybe she is worried that she would be viewed as a "weak" political opponent/professional if people thought she "lived with" spousal abuse? Also, the "intimate" ("sweet") times she chooses to address was when they met and dated in high school. Otherwise their life together during their marriage and since their divorce is a list of things and times they share/d. Kind of like two kids side-by-side and in parallel play, but not playing together. Interesting that she describes them as a family (including "Keith") yet she refers to *her* privacy and that of *her* children.
And I can't help but wonder if Keith's "support" was part of the divorce settlement. ($$)
"I'll be putting my faith in my experience with Keith."
Don't we HAVE (intrinsic) faith IN someone/something? Saying "putting'/"with" is distancing x 2.
Anonymous Habundia said...
"What my son said is true. Every statement he made was true.@keithellison, you know you did that to me. I have given every opportunity to get help and heal. Even now, u r willing to say my son is lying and have me continue to leak more text and info just so others will believe him."
There is "said" (referring to the post on social media) and then she refers to "every" statement in the past tense (was). I wonder if her son has had to give statements to the police or a lawyer. It would be interesting to know whether there are any police reports generated from their time together.
She says she's the one leaking text information but she does not refer to video.
It is interesting that she introduces the word faith twice.
He is muslim and as such his faith allows, nay demands that women be treated as 2nd class citizens and must be punished for any transgressions perceived or actual.
Women are brought up to believe that the male is dominant.
As a muslim woman, she is brought up to expect males to be dominant.
She is brought up to expect 'correction'
Quran (4:11) - (Inheritance) "The male shall have the equal of the portion of two females" (see also verse 4:176).
Quran (2:282) - (Court testimony) "And call to witness, from among your men, two witnesses. And if two men be not found then a man and two women."
Quran (2:228) - "and the men are a degree above them [women]"
Sahih Muslim (4:1039) - "A'isha said [to Muhammad]: 'You have made us equal to the dogs and the asses'"
Quran (4:34) - "Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great."
Quran (38:44) - "And take in your hand a green branch and beat her with it, and do not break your oath..." Allah telling Job to beat his wife
Abu Dawud (2141) - "Iyas bin 'Abd Allah bin Abi Dhubab reported the Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) as saying: Do not beat Allah's handmaidens, but when 'Umar came to the Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) and said: Women have become emboldened towards their husbands, he (the Prophet) gave permission to beat them." (This is graded sahih - authentic. It is also reported in Sunan Ibn Majah 9:1985, also graded sahih) At first, Muhammad forbade men from beating their wives. As the hadith indicates, he rescinded this once it was reported that women were becoming emboldened toward their husbands. Beatings in a Muslim marriage were deemed necessary at times to keep the woman in her place.
Sheikh Dr. Ahmad Muhammad Ahmad Al-Tayyeb, the head of Al-Azhar, Sunni Islam's most prestigious institution says that "light beatings" and "punching" are part of a program to "reform the wife"
'Correction, reforming' which to you and me would mean domestic violence would be her norm.
https://tania-cadogan.blogspot.com/2016/05/the-possible-dry-run-by-alleged.html
She doesn't directly tell us who our community relates to, it is clear indirectly to who she refers to.
The expected would bepeople to know relating to everyone.
Community (certain people, specific people, limited) is separate from people (everyone, non specific, unlimited)
It could mean that she is referring to where she lives, the town/city but i would expect her to then say the people of ...
She doesn't say that though which begs the question who would use the word community?
We see it crop often in relation to ethnic groups, racial groups or a specific area of like minded individuals such as in a council estate estate (where housing is supplied by the local town/city council, similar to social housing).
We hear terms such as community leaders,community elders.
She is speaking only to a certain specific group of people, people of her faith.
Behavior is separate to character.
Is there a character to keith that she doesn't know?
Plausible deniability?
Is this an indication that she has experienced domestic violence at keith's hands in accordance with her faith?
it is an expected part of her faith, her life
What experience with keith do she refer to?
@ tania (waving!)
I find your post apropos to what I posted up thread about wondering if his "support" was part of their divorce settlement. If she was "made" to sacrifice her career to be a supportive wife and mother and wait her turn, professionally, she might have had him by the short and curlies when it came time to fulfilling his 25-year promise. Or maybe there was no "turn" and she made him "pay". (Messy divorce or they walk the talk of true politicians and "go high"). After all, if he's the one paying, then he is being "supportive". Isn't that how politicians "speak"? ;0)
I imagine there are a lot of clubs and associations and affiliations - (their respective party). In other words, memberships (and by extension, association) that are reviewed and approved based on "cleanliness".
"This video does not exist"
He singles out this particular video rather than stating "there is no video".
Yikes !
His photograph pretty much says it all......
https://www.9news.com/mobile/article/news/local/pregnant-woman-and-her-2-children-reported-missing-in-frederick/73-584014990 Interview with husband is very alarming.
@general The video I shared said the wife recorded it secretly with her phone....probably because it happened more often I would think. Domestic abuse doesn't start out of the blue it's an ongoing situation.
@nic in the video I found she does refer to the vid
@general The video I shared said the wife recorded it secretly with her phone..
thanks. I thought it was odd that there was a video since I can't think having a video in a bedroom without one of the parties knowing (in a healthy relationship).
I had the same thinking when I read about the video. When was it made and who made it so that's when I though let's see if I can find more of this case. Media said the son put out a video so sensational as I can be lol I thought let's see if I can find that vid. Found out media was being deceptive (again) there was no video shared only said it was shared.
Sure in a healthy relationship I wouldn't think secret taping would take place....as soon secrets are present I think a relationship is already not healthy anymore (unless it was a secret for a party or something)
I get he was the one who did on internet wat he said. It made me question did she somehow spoke in such way that the son felt the need to share his mother's story.
Because later in her statement she says something like "do I need to it it more (not what she exactly same I know) but it was said in a way that we would make more public if he denials it.
The perp is with Antifa.
Thank you Hope @9:15.
Chris Watts, Shanann Watt's husband, spoke to 9NEWS on Tuesday and said the situation's been traumatic.
"I'm just hoping right now that she's somewhere safe..." he said. "Like, this house is not the same. Last night was traumatic. Last night was - I can't really stay in this house again with nobody here."
He glowingly described his girls.
"Celeste. She's just a bottle of energy," Chris Watts said. "She's - I call her rampage because she's got two speeds: go or she's sleeping. Bella. She's the more calm, cautious, mothering type and she's more like me - she's more calm."
The father says that the "mothering type" child is more like him. Shouldn't a mothering type child be more like the mother? Is the missing, pregnant mother more like the other child "Rampage"? I don't like the word "sleeping". I hope this mom and her children are ok.
Joe, Good catch with "sleeping".
FBI needs to check the property VERY carefully for dead bodies wtc bc I note sensitivity surrounding the "house" and whether anyone besides him is there.
"I'm just hoping right now that she's
somewhere safe..." he said. "Like, this HOUSE is NOT THE SAME. Last night was TRAUMAtic. Last night was - I can't really stay in this house again WITH NOBODY here."
Sensitivit with repeated negatives surrounding topic of the house & who is in house or at house.
"rampage" is not a nice description of his daughter.
"go or she's sleeping"
Sleeping is not a speed and speed has a pronoun in front of it.
You are correct. "Rampage" is a desparaging term.
Is he projecting, as abusers so often do?
Did HE go on a "rampage"?
"Go or sleeping" sounds like he is projecting his own possible drug use. Cocaine? Meth?
"The house in not the same."
What is diffrent about the house?
Dead bodies hidden behind wallboard or under concrete or buried?
Most people would phrase it "It's not the same here without them. "
"The house is not the same"
Traumatic
He cant stay there again.
"The Telltale Heart" is what that makes me think of.
I was thinking it's seepage. As in Celeste is "sleeping".
Also, rampage has a violence connotation.
Nic, Yes absolutely.
I am just noting the projection inthe word "rampage".
At 1:40 p.m. on Monday, Albert said his office got a call from a concerned friend of the Watts who hadn't heard from Shanann. Police went to the Watts home in the 2800 block of Saratoga Trail in the Wyndham Hill subdivision and couldn't find her, Albert said
https://www.9news.com/article/news/local/public-asked-to-keep-eye-out-for-missing-pregnant-mom-two-daughters/73-584014990
So Shannan's friend called and not the husband?
Maybe I'm too laid back, but if Shannan wasn't home/answering the door at 1:40 in the afternoon and I knew she didn't arrive home from her business trip until very late the night before, I might think she was napping (with the kids?).
Why the concern?
Also, the video here the the voice over says that the couple had an "emotional conversation" early Monday morning but that he didn't elaborate. "Watts said that his wife returned home from a business trip around 2:00AM Monday...."
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/pregnant-colorado-mother-shanann-watts-two-daughters-reported-missing-n900876
The video I linked to is very interesting. The concerned friend was not her best friend. Interesting in that he admits that he and Shannan and an "emotional conversation" after she got home from her business trip, whether it was at 2:00AM or before he left for work is not reported. He says he left at 5:15 and that he saw the girls on the baby monitor before he left the house. He said, "I texted her a few times, called her, I didn't get a response, which, that was a little off. And then her friend, Nicole, showed up about a little after Noon. I could see on the doorbell camera. That's when I was just like, something's not right if she's not answering the door and she said the car was here. It was like, I had to go home..."
He and Nicole are on good terms.
Why is he monitoring the house so closely? So someone rang the bell. Do people get an alert when the doorbell rings?
Maybe he monitors the house so closely to see if cops ever come to his door. Drugs, dead bodies on property?
As I suggested, FBI needs to very closely check the property. There is something there be doesnt want found.
EXTREME sensity surrounding his house/property.
Also, Lots of "electronic" or computer terms:
2 speeds
sleeping (computer "sleeping")
The show "Breaking Bad" is coming to mind.
Cooking meth?
Hiding dead bodies?
Some ither illegal activity going on in house involving his computer?
LuciaD said...
Agree, he does not describe his toddler "glowingly" , rather he (not so subtly) disparaged her! Who does that to his missing baby?!
Interesting comments from Rob, Nic and Lucia.
The husband aligns himself with the calm, cautious, mothering, child. (Unexpected for a male) He wants the listener to believe he is calm (x2) and cautious and mothering, Implying perhaps that Shannan, the mother, may be otherwise? Is it alibi building? There was an "emotional discussion" but it was Shannan who was emotional, not him, because he is "calm".? The husband self censors on " Last night was traumatic, last night was...."
The term " bottle of energy" is interesting. I have heard the expression, "ball of energy" but I haven't heard "bottle of" before. Was he drinking?
The house should be checked for signs of a physical fight/death. I doubt the bodies will be found in the house, though. The bodies have been removed. The husband has already told us that. "I cant really stay in this house again with no body here."
Yeah but considering the sensitivity of the negative
"I can't really stay in the house with NO body here" can mean there IS a body there.
Peter used the example of someone saying "I'm not an alcoholic" can mean they are or is at keast sensitive to them.
As a sidenote: I once knew a female who got cameras set up so she could remotely watch her house, who came to the door etc during an igly divorce im which she claimed hubby had her house and car bugged. That was her way of trying to regain control.
Rob, good point.
https://mobile.twitter.com/Tomas_Denver7/status/1029483687207825409/video/1
Uh oh. Not good. Does anyone want to transcribe this? The husband's body language (swaying side to side, smiling) is bad enough but his comments are alarming.
FBI allegedly thinks Mollie Tibbetts is alive while abductor is 'hiding in plain sight': Report
A source reportedly on the inside with Iowa law enforcement investigating the disappearance of Mollie Tibbetts claims that the FBI are getting closer to making an arrest of a suspect who is "hiding in plain sight."
According to a unnamed source who reached out to Radar Online, authorities are allegedly closing in on the suspect while focusing on men who are either single, divorced, or widowed. Further, according to the source, authorities allegedly believe that the suspect may have attended a vigil for 20-year-old Mollie.
"There is reason to believe the person responsible for Mollie's disappearance attended a vigil and has continued to closely follow the case."
Authorities also reportedly think that Mollie is alive and possibly being held captive, the source said, which goes along with what Rob Tibbetts, Mollie's father, speculated earlier this month.
"I do believe Mollie is with someone who she knows, probably someone who cares about her," Tibbetts previously said. "But that relationship was misguided, misinterpreted and went wrong, and I think they're in a place with Mollie and don't know how to get themselves out of this horrible situation."
Authorities have not confirmed the source's allegations. Law enforcement continues to stay tight-lipped regarding the case, including who, if anyone, is considered a suspect. Authorities did state, however, they have had numerous leads and continue to follow up on each one that comes through.
Timeline of Mollie's disappearance
http://www.crimeonline.com/2018/08/15/fbi-allegedly-thinks-mollie-tibbetts-is-alive-while-abductor-is-hiding-in-plain-sight-report/
Is there a subliminal context here? IMO, expected would be fast or slow. Go or stop. In relation to sleeping/bedroom the on/off light switch?
She's - I call her rampage because she's got two speeds: go or she's sleeping.
The husband has confessed, how tragic.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6064433/Pregnant-woman-two-daughters-declared-endangered-missing.html
oe said,
Bottles of i.e., carbonated drinks, under pressure (energy) can explode. Especially so when opened. If it turns out that he had something to do with his wife and kids going missing, I would view this as victim blaming/projecting (if she hadn't been so "rampage" then...).
Re security systems that enable the homeowner to monitor their home remotely. If the husband is controlling (monitoring his family during the day), then by default Shannan could watch her kids play while she was away on business. Maybe she saw something she didn't like? Like a visitor dropping in for coffee with her husband. Totally speculation on my part. But the "emotional conversation" (minimization) must have been a biggie if he was willing to report it at all. Unless his intention was to plant the seed that "she left with the kids" because they had an "emotional" conversation. Again, total speculation on my part.
@ M
Wow. Obviously I didn't scroll down thread. How very tragic.
Husband said when he arrived home from work it was like walking into a "ghost town". I would view this description as seepage.
"It's not something I could ever, ever fathom would happen in my lifetime, and I have no inclination of where she is," he said, at the time. "She said she was going to a friend's house with the kids and that's the last thing I heard, and that was it. It was very vague."
I wonder if Shannan was planning to leave him and she was taking the kids "with" her and they were gong to stay at "a" (unknown to him) friend's house? ("safe" house?) Hearing this he "snapped" (that's the last thing I "heard" = blind rage). It makes me wonder if the appointment was with her friend, Nicole, who stopped by because she didn't show up and why that friend called police because she was worried for Shannan's well-being. All speculation on my part. Watt's describes his activities that day as "blowing through stop lights" "blowing through everything" in the context of getting home from work because "nothing made sense" (about Shannan not being home). Maybe, in reality, that was what his activity was like before 5:15 when he reports he left home for work.
Police are giving a statement at 10:30 this morning. I wonder if they will release the call to police by the friend.
LC said...
Before his arrest, Chris Watts' media exposure was all about him & how he felt about his family being 'missing'. No real concern about wife & kids' safety - other than a Mention that one daughter's epi-pen was left behind.
Classic & obvious example for SA.
I am Local & watching the news closely.
It is a shame that Full interviews are not shown - Including the Questions asked by the interviewer.
Peter, is it safe to say the analysis is still valid when an interviewer might ask "How do You feel?" and the answer is directly responding to that question?
I understand that word choice when speaking freely & responding to "What happened?" is a clearer assessment.
Blogger Nic said...
"It's not something I could ever, ever fathom would happen in my lifetime,"
Fathom is a nautical term for water depth. did he dispose of the bodies in a river or lake?
This may be one our best examples to practice SA. So many indicators of deception.
@ LC
https://www.wsoctv.com/news/national-news/ap-top-news/husband-arrested-after-disappearance-of-pregnant-wife-2-daughters-has-nc-ties/814110400
@ 48 seconds
Reporter: Did you guys get into an argument before she left?
Chris Watts: It wasn't, it wasn't like an argument. We had an emotional conversation, but, I'll leave it at that, but it's….I just want them back. Laughs. I jus, I just want them to come back. And if, if they're not safe right now, that's what's, that's what's tearing me apart. Cuz if they are safe they're coming back. But if they're not, this, this, this has got to stop. Like someone has to come forward.
@ General P. Malaise
The word "inclination" (as in slope) pinged my hinky metre. I didn't pick up on the word "fathom", but you make a great point. I went through her Instagram account and didn't see anything in regards water except for a trip she won via the home business she has.
Interesting once I saw that she was in "direct sales" (MLM) I wondered how their finances were. I read in an article that they did indeed have financial issues ($400k chapter filing which was dropped (not sure if I understood correctly except that maybe they found a way to refinance,) and problems with their community association (maybe behind on their association dues?) She posted a lot of motivation sayings, especially about not letting negativity get you down. Maybe Chris wanted her to get out of the business.
I watched a few acquaintances live through the MLM business and couldn't figure out where all the debt came from. It can be very devastating to a family and it puts incredible pressure on a marriage when the spouse is "all in". They think they won a "free" (fill in the blank). Um, no, look at how much you sold (spent before you tried to resell the product at the (impossibly) stated product to achieve that level/prize/recognition, and that's how much it cost you!
The emotional conversation could have been about Chris not being "supportive" in her career endeavour (demanding she get out/stop spending money on product,) and her decision to leave "with the kids". She was at a business meeting. These are rah-rah meetings meant to keep you "focused" on your business. Coincidentally, yesterday I saw a pink cadillac not far from where I live and I'm reminded of women who had/have boxes of product they purchase with the intention to sell but the (stale) product just sits in cases in their basement. I say stale because MK is notorious for changing their packaging or "improving" their product every quarter so it doesn't appear in the catalogue, ergo the product the sales lady paid 100% plus shipping ends up being given away and no money is earned. Who wants to buy 'stale'/dated product? These business feed on (mostly women's) insecurities. Purchasing product before it's sold is a means to garner approval (they win prizes and receive public recognition each bar their hit,) and the business does *nothing* to deter their sellers from such practice. In fact, it's exactly the sort of person they want affiliated with their brand. I noted how little the boxes of product were. I wonder if there are shelves of the stuff in her house or if she actually did all her inventory/only ordered to fill actual orders.
I'm not excusing what Chris Watt's did. I'm highlighting the stress associated with MLMs.
I would say between 70/80% of what he says is true, it's what he omits.
Full interview with questions
Video Duration 7:21
https://lawandcrime.com/crazy/colorado-dad-who-looked-into-the-camera-and-begged-for-help-arrested-in-familys-murder-video/
Milavec Lake is part of/in close proximity to Frederick's community.
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Milavek-lake/184048208298931
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/08/16/body-missing-colorado-woman-found-at-husbands-place-work-police-say.html#
Body of missing Colorado woman found at husband's place of work, police say
I just saw a different "full interview" of 3+ minutes from a local TV station.
"ghost-town"
"inclination"
"fathom"
"Earth-shattering" and "upside-down" were all noted.
Wife "barely got into bed" before he left early for work.
Dad hoping the girls would come home and "barrel-rush" him.
Wife's body has been recovered; Authorities know location of children's bodies.
Wife's body found at Anadarco field, at husband's place of employment. No word yet if body was found buried in a barrel container........
Truth becomes evident from the spoken words we choose.
He said he called 3 times and texted her 3 times. In the interview it was all about him. "I needed that." "I want them back". I, I, I all throughout the interview. No concern for them only for himself. "This house is not complete"
LC, can you give us the link to the other interview?
Lots of up-to-date/background info here:
https://heavy.com/news/2018/08/chris-watts-shanann-watts-husband/
Chris Watts told Fox News, "It's not something I could ever, ever fathom would happen in my lifetime, and I have no inclination of where she is. She said she was going to a friend's house with the kids and that's the last thing I heard, and that was it. It was very vague."
In hind-sight this is a peculiar, IMO, revealing statement because the reason why her friend called the police to report her missing (if I understood correctly, the one who dropped her off at 2am,) was because Shannan had a dr's appointment that morning (?) that she missed. Wouldn't Chris Watts know his wife had a wellness appointment that day? Shannan had very recently returned from visiting her family in NC for six weeks. Speculation: I'm wondering if they were on a break and after a few days home and one business meeting later, she decided to follow-through and leave for good.
One thing that not many realize, especially when in the throes of the MLM business model, is that the up line does everything it can to ensure that the revenue stream (reseller) does not dry up! To the point where they will paint the spouse who is desperately struggling to extract their wife/seller from the business, as "negative" or "unsupportive" and instead convince them that they are their "family" to be trusted and they will support them, blah, blah, blah. They drive a wedge between anyone who could have a "negative influence" on their revenue stream. It's sick.
I'm not saying that this is what happened in this case, but it certainly appears that money was a huge topic/problem in their marriage.
"she came home from the airport two am i left around 5:15".
Has he locked himself into a time of death and or time of disposal.
Because he erased it?
A shocking story. I wonder if he killed his wife during a fight, and then killed the little girls because they witnessed it? Killing your own little girls!!
Calvin said...
Watch this interview and disect:
https://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/crime/sources-husband-of-pregnant-frederick-woman-detained-has-confessed-to-killing-her-and-2-daughters
Very sad news. I will look into this thoroughly this evening.
FBI needs to look through every inch of his house/property. I have a terrible feeling the bodies are on the property somewhere.
LC--
Good catches!
They will find the bodies buried in the backyard or under convrete on property. His language is TELLING us!
Several interviews can be found on local (Denver, Colorado) NBC, CBS etc. affiliate stations.
He specifies in one interview that "there are no cameras in the backyard".
He wonders if they are "huddled up somewhere".
I would not be surprised to hear that authorities locate the girls' bodies buried upside-down & huddled in a barrel on Anadarco property.
In trying to decipher his actions from what he said on the various interviews I watched, I suspect he killed his girls sometime during the weekend; killed his wife after the "emotional conversation" whereupon he told her about the girls' fate, as she "barely got into bed", then removed her body through the backyard for burial at his workplace property.
After his family was reported 'missing', he returned to the house which was "like a ghost town".
Thanks to SA for enlightening my focus on the truth within the spoken word.
"When I came home and then walked in the house, nothing. Vanished. Nothing was here"
Novice at this, but I noticed he was talking about time. Home became a house when he went in . And unnecessary language, coming home and then walking in.
This is a transcript of Chris Watts first interview after his wife/children reported missing. A later interview he included that "she was going to a friends"
1:07 – 1:30 – Right now its they've got K-9 units, the Sheriff's Dept., everybody's like, they're doing their best right now to figure out if they can get a scent, see where they went, if they went on foot if they went in a car, if they went somewhere. And right now it's just like, they've been on point, they're going through the house trying to get a scent and hopefully they can pick something up to where it's going to lead to something.
1:35 -2:13 – She came home from the airport at 2 a.m. and I left around 5:15, she was still here. And about 12:10 that afternoon her friend showed up at the door, like I had texted Shanann a couple times that day, called her to say, hey, you know, but she never got back to me. But she wasn't getting back to any of her people as well, and that's what really concerned a lot of people, is like if she's not getting back to me that's fine, she gets busy during the day, but she didn't get back to her people which is really concerning. And Nicole called me when she was at the door and that's when I came home and then walked in the house and nothing, just vanished, nothing was here.
2:14 – 2:17 – I mean she wasn't here, the kids weren't here, nobody was here.
2:22 – "Bella and Celeste"
2:30 2:33 – "Bella's 4 and Celeste is 3."
2:37 – 3:01 – "I called her 3 times, texted her about three times just to say, you know, what's going on. Like after I called her and texted her once it was like, maybe she was just busy, she had just gotten back, you know. Like everybody's probable calling her from her trip you know. She just got back from Arizona and I figured she was just busy, but when her friend showed up that's when it just registered -- like alright, this isn't right."
3:04 (Tomas asks, "Do you think she just took off?")
3:06 – 3:49 – I mean right now I don't even want to just like throw anything out there, like I hope that she's somewhere safe right now and with the kids, but I mean could she have van…could she have just taken off, I don't know, but if someone has her and they're not safe I'll want them back now. Like, that's, that, that's what's in my head is like, if they're safe right now, they're gonna come back, but if they're not safe right now that's the not knowing part, like if they're not safe. Last night I was, I had every light in the house on, I was hoping that I would just get just ran over by the kids running in the door and just like barrel rushing me, but it didn't happen and it was just a traumatic night trying to be here."
3:54 3:55 – (Stutters) I mean, er, I mean my kids are my life.
3:56 - 4:46 – I mean those smiles light up my life. And it's like, I mean last night, like during like at like you know when they usually eat dinner, it was just like I miss them. Like, I mean I miss the telling them like you got to eat that, like or you're not going to get your dessert, or just, like you're not going to get your snack, after, you know (laughs). I miss that, like I miss them cuddled up on their couches, they have like a Minnie Mouse couch and a Sofia couch that like they cuddle up on or watch you know Bubble Guppies or something and it was just like you know, I miss, I was (sigh), it was tearing me apart last night and I needed that, I needed that last night and for them, for nobody to be here last night and to go into their rooms and not, and know that I wasn't going to turn their rain machines on and know that I wasn't going to turn their monitor on and know I wasn't going to kiss them to bed tonight it was, (sigh) it was, I, I, that's why last night was just horrible.
CONTINUED INTERVIEw
4:46 – 4:55 I couldn't do it, I just, (laugh), I want everybody just to come home. Like, wherever they're at, just come home. That's what I want.
4:55 – 5:24 – Tomas moving camera, Chris explaining just timeline of when she was supposed to get home, flight delayed, when she got home at 1:48, got home, got to bed at 2.
5:36 – I left for work early that morning, like 5:15 to 5:30, so like, she barley, I mean, she barely got, barely gotten into bed pretty much.
5:46 – 5:50 (Tomas – I know this might be a tough question, but did you guys get into an argument or anything before she left?)
5:51 – 5:55 – It wasn't like an argument, we had an emotional conversation but I'll leave it at that.
5:55 – 6:01 – "But it's, sigh, I just want them back (smiles and laughs) I just want them to come back."
6:02 – 6:14 – And if, if they're not safe right now, that's what's tearing me apart, because if they are safe, they're coming back, but if they're not, this, this, this has got to stop, like this, somebody has to come forward."
6:38 – 6:46 – Colorado is, I mean, um, you can't just drive around and look, I mean it's just like, you wouldn't really know what you were looking for that's what the cops pretty much told me.
6:46 – 6:50 – That first day I was like I want to get out and drive around and they were like you wouldn't know what to look for.
7:02 – 7:33 – Right now this is, what they're doing right now is with the K9 and the scents, I think this is the biggest thing they've done so far because yesterday they had, Fredrick police dept, they had all the searching of the house and try to guide out whatever information they could and with the detectives, officers, sergeants, and today its, I mean, obviously with all the activity that's around, its, its, its, there's a lot going on around here and I really hope that all this can lead to something positive.
7:51 – 7:56 (Tomas: "If your wife could see this, if she could watch this, what would you like to tell your wife?)
7:56 – Shanann, Bella, Celeste, if you're out there, just come back, like if somebody has her, just please bring her back, I need to see everybody, I need to see everybody, again, this house is not complete without anybody here. Please bring them bac
Even for someone as unschooled as I in SA, lot of red flags here.
Texted her "3" times
Called her "3" times
I would hazard that she was murdered in their bedroom, perhaps as she was trying to go to sleep and that she was murdered shortly after she got home.
He was emotional, she wasn't?
The kids "running over him" IDK what to makee of that.
It's almost as if he confesses
Can anyone glean from this if he murdered the children BEFORE or AFTER she got home?
Sad, sad case.
Blogger Lucia D said...
She said she was going to a friend's house with the kids and that's the last thing I heard, and that was it.
Maybe he didn't have a choice in the matter/Shannan didn't want to talk about it anymore, her mind was made up.
"and that was it"
Akin to "that's all I can say". Except that wasn't "it", there was more to the story.
I was under the impression that LE checked the house and around the house/the neighbourhood first. If they didn't find anything in the immediate hours after their "disappearance", then I would suggest per General Malaise, that they look at the bathtub and/or even the toilet (#1 way toddlers drown/why they make toilet lid locks).
Thanks for the transcript Lynda!
It also gives me the feeling that whatever happened, was not planned.
Could he have run over both children with his truck? Could he have left them in the truck, in the heat? and they died?
He never parked his truck in the driveway after he came home. It was several houses down from his. Why not pull in your driveway?
I'd love to see Chris Watts' statement analyzed. He confessed within hours of this interview.
https://www.kgun9.com/news/national/video-chris-watts-pleads-for-kids-wife-to-return-day-before-his-arrest-in-their-deaths
The transcript is below the video.
Just piping in...will read transcripts when I get home.
Had a flash: Wife's business trip..suitcases...are they buried in suitcases?
New England Water Blog said...
I saw signs of a bruised lip in his interview suggesting a struggle. I can't help but wonder if he killed the children before his wife came home and that was the source of the "emotional conversation".
New England Water Blog, I also noticed that there are red marks on his neck (left side) in the interview. Not sure when the interview was conducted (Tuesday?). It could be from nervous rubbing and/or a "zit". But I was also thinking maybe from a struggle.
I'm thinking if Shannan's body was recovered apart from the girls, then the girls were killed and disposed of while she was away. Thats a lot to take care of in a very short time/in-between when Shannan got home and before he got to work.
I wonder where the children were supposed to be that morning. If both of them were working was there a daycare situation arranged?
Its horrible to think about but did he kill the children first and then his wife or the other way around? It seems pretty spontaneous on his part, likely an act of rage, he does not act like someone who had a plan constructed by which to get away with it.
oz said...
https://www.facebook.com/ShanannWatts/posts/10155616213476935
"I don't even want to just like throw anything out there, like I hope that she's somewhere safe right now and with the kids"
I would be surprised if he buried them. I think he just threw them out/dumped them somewhere in the hopes that animals would do what they do.
" was hoping that I would just get just ran over by the kids running in the door and just like barrel rushing me, but it didn't happen and it was just a traumatic night trying to be here."
Is this a confession? Traumatic night to be here, did he "barrel rush" Shanann?
Two things about Chris Watts that has struck me. First, he wears the exact same smile, more or less, in every picture I've looked at on Shannan's Instagram site. Secondly, when he did his interview, I realize "he" did the interview, but it didn't appear that anyone was around him. Afterwards when he was being filmed on the front step, he was completely alone. Just him and his phone. I would think after an interview like that, if anyone was around/in the house, they would have joined him outside for moral support. But nobody appeared around him. Also, when he talked about being in the house the first night, he didn't mention a single soul there with him. Just that he was by himself. Strange.
Nic, Thats just more reason to suspect he has bodies on the property.
Unknown, I'm just getting a chance to catch up.
I am halfway through the video you posted.
3 mentions of DOOR so far--one in connection with one of the daughters, last door reference (which is in connection with one of the daughters) is followed by "I left the LIGHTS ON all night."
They will find signs of rape probably with all 3 when the bodies are found. He raped them.
I want to cry--I literally feels tears coming--I know he raped them from his language.
Door--open--barrel rush--lights on
They were raped.
Next half of video:
He says (smiling the whole time):
Traumatic night.
rain machines ON
their monitor ON (he was pervily watching them on their monitor besides the linguistic of "on")
He is a rapist!
Barrel rush= Violent rape
He says K-9 dogs are at his house to try to "get a scent" and that they are "on point",
Bodies will be on property.
They will have been raped.
Cause of death as yet undetermined. I am guessing he stabbed them.
I think he raped and killed the children while she was away on her trip and then killed her when she came home.
For him to be laughing and smiling is just mind-blowing. He is a very evil man.
They have announced they have found Shanann's body, lying out in an open area at his (former) place of employment. LE has said they are trying to recover the girls and they believe they know where they are.
There were no signs of struggle in the house or obvious bloodstains tho Shanann's purse, keys, phone were still in the house.
Did he really expect people to believe that a pregnant mother walked out of the house with her 2 toddlers, no money, no purse, no phone, nothing?? Makes me believe further that this was unplanned.
Dave..
I do believe Shanann was not alive for to long after she got home. That's just speculation on my part of course.
Good pick up on the doors, lights, "rain machine" (water reference?)
She was pregnant?
Wow they found her out in open at his former place of employment?
Is it close to his property?
I wonder where the girls are?
Lynda, good catch with water reference/rain machine...I believe it should be counted as a water referemce.
He sexually assaaualted at least one of them, but I bet both/
I agree...he may have "rushed" her right when she came in the door. The poor girls. What an evil man.
She was close to 4 months pregnant with a boy.
He worked at Colorados largest oil and gas drillers, a company called Anadarko Petroleum. They said they found her "in the open", just dumped. They have said they found the girls in "close proximity" to her.
I don't know how far it is away from their house. He stated he left "for work" at 5:15 AM and she got home at 2AM. So, about a 3 hour window to kill your entire family and transport/dump their bodies.
Just a note to all sleuths:
There are -Several- interviews that I have watched. The basic content is Similar (rehearsed?) but it seems that the local TV stations here Each got a chance for their reporters to ask questions on separate segments.
Reading the transcript above was informative - but there are Other versions out there to scrutinize. Each interview I watched had slight variations of the same story. I also know that some of the interviews were edited for the actual newscasts. I have watched 2 interviews on affiliate websites that each claim as "Full Interview" but they were slightly different from each other. It is also very difficult to hear the reporter's actual questions very clearly.
Frederick is about 20 minutes from my home. It is a mixed rural/suburban area. The news sites are covering this story heavily. They are expounding on way more information than has actually been released by officials.
The most recent update is that the girls' bodies have also been recovered, with no specifics other than "near" the area were their mother was found. They would not confirm if the girls were found on the Anadarko property. Police are saying that it appears all 3 were killed in the home (assumed that the girls were killed days earlier) but there were no obvious signs of struggle.
Watts is charged with 1st Degree Murder (and other charges) which imply premeditation.
Shanaan posted this on her FB 4 days before she was murdered, so I assume, right before she left for the weekend in Arizona. It is beyond creepy. I mean, wth?
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10155616213426935&set=pb.507111934.-2207520000.1534477671.&type=3&theater
Note of caution.
Lights on/off
water, are all possible indicators of childhood sexual abuse past or present and should explored. It does not mean that it happened but should be looked into. If these are mentioned, as an unnecessary detail, in any form, inquire. We must not interpret but question the reason it enters someones language.
It could be that it happened to him or it is was on going towards his wife and children. We can not say he raped them or sexually abused them on the back this or call him a rapist. He may well be but we can not conclude.
I am really sick of my experience of having been raped at age 4 being deleted, particularly when I had brought it up in relation to linguistics and a comment about "signs of struggle". Whoever deleted it (probably the Mod), fuck you!
Especially in light of the report coming out from PA about how many victims were silenced by the CAtholic Church, which essentially was operating as a pedophile ring. All those victims had their voices silenced, and I refuse to let mine be silenced. Why the fuck would someone delete that? That fuckin happened to me! I'm not ashamed of it. I am a fuckin survivor who I'm sure has survived WAY more than the Mod who deleted it! Grow a set of balls! You're gonna tell me it's OK to analyze these cases that typically involve murder and rape and analyze the hell out of the language used by perps or potential perps and the horrendous things done to their victims, but I'm not allowed to write one paragraph about what happened to me! FUCK YOU!!! Victims live in silence for years, for decades. Screw you. Absolutely retarded and someone who's been through what I have has can apply it to solving these cases. Again screw you.
@3:32, No that is actually very stupid. There are WAY too many references to doors opening, lights on, in the context of a triple homicide of the guys family, done by him, including the murder of his 2 toddler daughters. HOw very not smart to say it could be seepage that HE himself was abused.
I read carefully what Peter writes, and Peter has noted references to doors can sometimes be seepage (typically he notes this happening in females who are accesories to crimes, not male perpetrators)...he has never mentioned the mention of "lights on" being seepage of sexual abuse from the perp's childhood.
And also pay attention to what Peter writes!
I do! That's why I am above the level of the FBI in talent determining location of victim from SA, amongst many other things. Because I read what Peter writes and because I am very bright. Natural intelligence.
Always remember, I am solving these cases SOBER. Which is a DISTINCT advantage over you, mod. And fuck you.
And "solve" the case yourself. I don't like you. AT all.
references to doors opening/lights on juxtaposed linguistically with barrel rushed/rampage/run me over
VERY ominous.
And yes, someone saved me, and I realize, in that respect, how lucky I was. After reading about some of the PA church pedo victims' stories, I don't think any of them had a strong man pull them from danger and knock out their rapist. Nevermind go on a heroic journey from a thousand miles away risking their very life to save them. I did. I had a hero, a real life, superhero who saved me! God was looking out for me. The man who saved me is MY HERO. Not many other victims had such a hero, but I did.
And that is stunning, humbling, redeeming, it is the one antidote for the terrible pain and hole in my soul from the horrific attack.
Chris Watts case: Sources say bodies of 2 daughters concealed inside oil and gas tanks
FREDERICK, Colo. – The bodies of Chris Watts' two young daughters were found inside oil and gas tanks that "were mostly full," several high-ranking sources tell Denver7's Jennifer Kovaleski.
The high ranking sources told Kovaleski Thursday evening they believe Watts placed the bodies of 4-year-old Bella and 3-year-old Celeste in the oil and gas tanks owned by Anadarko in order to hide the bodies and conceal the smell.
Frederick police officials said in a 6:30 p.m. update Thursday that the bodies of the two young girls were found in close proximity to the other body whom officers strongly believe is Shanann Watts. Her body was found on property owned by Anadarko Petroleum earlier Thursday. Investigators have not yet confirmed the location of the bodies.
They were recovered as 33-year-old Christopher Watts sat behind bars at the Weld County Jail on suspicion of murdering his family.
Watts was an employee at Anadarko up until Wednesday, the oil and gas company confirmed to Denver7.
The husband and father was taken to jail at 11:30 p.m. Wednesday after he was detained for questioning. Two law enforcement sources told Denver7 Watts had confessed to killing his wife and daughters. He faces investigation on one count of first-degree murder after deliberation; two counts of first-degree murder – position of trust; and three counts of tampering with a deceased human body.
All three were reported missing Monday around 2 p.m. after Shanann did not arrive to a scheduled meeting. In addition to having two daughters, Shanann was also 15 weeks pregnant. The FBI and CBI were brought in to help Frederick police in the investigation.
Weld County prosecutors said they believe Shanann and the girls were killed inside of the family's home but did not say why they believe that.
MORE: Here's everything we know about the alleged murder of Shanann Watts and her two daughters
There is a candlelight vigil in front of the Watts home scheduled for 8:30 p.m. Friday.
https://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/chris-watts-case/chris-watts-case-sources-say-bodies-of-2-daughters-concealed-inside-oil-and-gas-tanks
MsGvious said...
Chris Watts rarely uses his wife or daughters' names. So many red flags.
Anon said.
he has never mentioned the mention of "lights on" being seepage of sexual abuse from the perp's childhood.
You are correct. My appologies. It's to do with possible good/bad sex life.
I'm wondering if he killed them before she got home - that was the cause of their 'emotional conversation' and then he killed her.
Dailymail says girls were stuffed in gas tanks to disquise smell.
Chloe Ayling, has entered the UK "celebrity" big brother house.
Model Chloe made headlines last year after she was lured into a fake photoshoot in Italy and help captive for six days.
In June, Lucasz Herba was convicted of kidnapping, extortion and carrying false documents. He was jailed for almost 17 years.
Will she leak information (most feel [myself included] she was in cohorts with her captives) about what really happened?
I guess she will have a barrage of solicitors watching and listening to every word she says for fear of her putting her foot (pun intended) in her mouth. No doubt the production team will highly edit what she says.
S/A may pick up on language she uses that the above may mis
The daughters were found in oil and gas tanks (barrels).
"I was hoping that I would just get ran over by the kids running in the door, just barrel-rushing me, but it didn't happen,"
It was just reported that the girls' bodies were Found inside an Oil and Gas TANK.
Close enough to a BARREL ???
Statement Analysis really works......
Davey Blackburn spoke of wrestling, wrestling, and more wrestling. And the doctors say Amanda fought hard. The initial report was Aggravated Assault.
My original comment about the "barrel" - - Aug 16 at 4:11 pm
I said "I would not be surprised" ................
but I am now Convinced that SA is Validated.
Learn to Listen.
Thanks, Peter.
I wasn't able to follow this case, though it drew much interest.
It appears from the comments that readers did a good job listening to the husband/father and letting his words guide you.
From only a news story, don't believe the motive was financial unless the suspect tells you to. It could have simply been the trigger for his murderous rage.
Thank you, Peter! I was impressed with the whole group of us. You taught us well!
Thank you for warning against conclusions about financial motive. I dont believe that was the motive.
To ither sleuthers, Where were the gas tanks with the bodies found? One analyst did identify the barrel/tank correctly. That is one evil man!
I'm late to this one - what a tragic case. They looked such a 'normal' happy family.
There was more of the denigrating quote:
"There's Celeste, - she's just a bottle of energy - she's called a rampage cuz she's like, she's jus' always she's, she's got two speeds, go or she's sleeping, and she's always the troublemaker, she's always the one like jumping off things, you know, and just yelling at you, and all kinds of things, and Bella, she's the more calm, cautious, mothering - type - and - she's - she's more like me, she's more calm, she's uh - but uh, Celeste has definitely got her mom's personality where she's always gung-ho, ready to go."
^ In the video tweeted by Chris Vanderveen
https://heavy.com/news/2018/08/chris-watts-interview-full-video/
Body language was interesting - Watts was shaking his head "no", as he said, "If you're out there just - just come back. Like, if somebody has her please bring her back"
He was also shaking his head and laughing whilst saying, "I just want them back…I just want them to come back."
He did a lot of head shaking and slight rises of the shoulder - the smiles and tittering were bizarre.
Shannon praised her husband a lot on Social media - in some posts she seemed to align herself with her girls, as if she were also one of her husband's daughters - I found that unusual. I can't find those now - they were on one of the news pages that combined a lot of sources.
Why did he do it?
The gas tanks/barrels with the bodies of the children were also found in the area of Watts former work place, quite near to where the mother's body was found. I read that the barrels weren't empty when he put his daughters into them - one contained oil, the other petroleum.
I noticed him shaking his head no also!
This case is so horrific I am still processing it. So grotesque what he did to the girls' bodies.
There is SOMETHING on his property, still, I think.
Motive: I believe they are going to find indicators of sexual abuse. The defense is already freaking out about autopsies being performed and judge ruled they need to let the defense know about any autopsies performed!
Heavy sensitivity surrounding his computer linguistically. They will probably find very bad stuff on there.
WannaBeSA said...
Chris Watts was quoted saying, "She said she was going to a friend's house with the kids and that's the last thing I heard, and that was it."
Like Peter sometimes says - "I believe him." I think she did say that and that was the last thing she said.
Dave, I didn't get any of the things you picked up on about possible sexual abuse - it has quite thrown me, I'm going to read it all again. They look like such a nice successful family, which I know is not a reason why those things couldn't happen, but still ...I need to read and watch it all again.
The children had been away with their mother for six weeks - could he lose his mind with the 'troublemaker' daughter in just the couple of days they had been home? How can a three or four year old be a 'troublemaker'? Mischievous - but 'troublemaker' - and he said that about her while she was supposedly missing. He only said their names when he was asked - he is all about him.
It's horrendous - and how he disposed of them adds to that. I can't imagine the trauma for the grandparents and other family - he's a total ****. In familial homicides by fathers, they often stab or shoot their children while they're sleeping and leave them to be discovered under the bedclothes -maybe that's more the case in murder-suicide, but what he did with the bodies is very unusual, I think. BBC website has it that the barrels were almost full when he put the children in to them. Was he hoping the contents would quickly destroy their bodies and any forensic evidence?
What is 'gung-ho'? Is it just ready for anything - or more ready to fight? He raised his fist up when he said that.
I hope they are able to establish exactly what happened, and why he disposed of the children's bodies, and as he did.
"That was it" is like "and that is all" - there's more, but he doesn't want to talk about it.
Hey Judd, The linguistic indicators of likely sexual abuse are there in his language.
The way he disposed of the bodies, is, as you said unusual, however there have been other familial homicides we have studied on here where the child bictim had been raped and disposed of innwater, which is also unusual in familial homicides.
His actions show he has NO RESPECT of any kind for his children's bodies, alive or deceased. They were treated worse than garbage. You can be confident his degredation in his own mind of his children from human to garbage did not happen overnight, rather it has been going on for a while. If he views them as lower than trash it is very likely he sexually assaulted them.
WannaBeSa...
Good pick up! I can see it.
Jude, Chris Watts is also being charged with tampering with physical evidence. I wonder if he moved Bella's and Celeste's bodies off the property after he reported them missing. I was picking up on strong sensitivity surrounding the house in his language. Where did he get the tanks? Were they his?
The girls were found in "A" tank of Crude oil, on the property of his workplace Anadarko Oil & Gas. Charging documents & responses indicate that the girls were Strangled in the home, some days before he killed his wife, then transported to employer's property.
LC, It is beyond comprehension he did that to them & disposed of them in that way. I get a worse vibe off Chris Watts than Scott Peterson.
Dave - I haven't read whether the tanks were already there, or to whom they belonged - the company are suppliers of oil and gas. Maybe the Affidavit will be released soon - it would help answer some questions.
Analysis of Chris Watts by a former FBI profiler:
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/shanann-watts-frederick-colorado-former-fbi-profiler-chris-watts-televised-plea-for-slain-familys-return-shows-arrogance/
Thirty minute interview of former family friends, Nicholas and Amanda Thayer - they let Chris Watts stay overnight at their house following the disappearance of his wife and daughters - they became suspicious and reported him because he didn't seem concerned enough about his missing family. They're devastated for Shannan and the girls, and because they let him stay in their house with their five year old daughter, also because they had defended him on social media:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eyl3P0xYD2U
According to court documents he children's bodies had been submerged for four days in an oil well filled with crude oil.
'….The court documents obtained by 9NEWS and shared with the Coloradoan also detail that the bodies of the children had "been in an oil well filled with crude oil" for four days.
Defense attorney James Merson wrote in one motion that he'd spoken with a DNA expert, Richard Eikelenboom.
Merson's requests in the motions focused on mandating that the pathologist take DNA swabs of the girls' necks during the autopsies, which were scheduled to be completed Friday. He also requested that Eikelenboom be present during the autopsies.
"In my opinion, the presence of oil will not destroy the DNA," Eikelenboom said, according to one of the motions. Eikelenboom also referenced techniques that could be used to preserve DNA "after strangulation."
Merson also requested that DNA samples be taken from Shanann Watt's hands and nails along with the children's nails.
Police said the body of Shanann Watts was found on property owned by Anadarko Petroleum, one of the state's largest oil and gas drillers, where Chris Watts worked as an operator. Investigators found what they believe are the bodies of 4-year-old Bella and 3-year-old Celeste nearby Thursday.'
https://eu.coloradoan.com/story/news/2018/08/17/colorado-court-documents-suggest-watts-children-may-have-been-strangled-shanann-watts-chris-watts/1025579002/
Hey Jude ~
The "4 days" comment came from a researcher being interviewed about the possibility of collecting DNA samples from a person submerged in a tank of crude oil. The court documents state "several days" and request samples which suggest strangulation as the method of homicide. The TV report is a bit misleading when trying to figure the timeline of the crimes.
Reports have also used the terms 'Tank' 'Vat' 'Oil well' - all of which are commonly accessible on the vast property of Anadarko - where Chris Watts was employed until Wednesday, when he made his confession. Most reports I've seen or read refer to Anadarko as his "former employer" or as the company where he "used" to work. I can only assume the company wants to disassociate from this crime - - as they have been in the news recently (past year) involving a couple incidents of uncapped/abandoned wells exploding, causing a death & injuries.
LC - I read in several laces tha he was dismissed the day Shannan's body was found on the company's land.
There is an interview in which a family friend said Watts had taken the girls to a Birthday party on Sunday - it was the friend's son's birthday party. The girls had just come back from six weeks at their grandparents', so it sounds as if the party was on the weekend Shannan was away, when Watts was looking after them - he said he had them on the weekend. If that is the right Sunday, they were still alive for some of Sunday.
Four days is also in the court documents, according to 9News, who have obtained copies.
Here is a news report about the birthday party - the girls were alive for at least some of Sunday.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aYNZVJT1qlE&app=desktop
Chris Watts' actions are grievous beyond comprehension. If he didnt want the responsibility of a family & the girls were away for 6 weeks, WHY DIDNT HE JUST LEAVE?!?! Would have been the perfect to do it!!! Instead he waits till the girls come home, strangles them & dumps them in an oil tank?! Wtf?!?! He had 6 weeks--he could have just LEFT!!!! Why the hell would he have done what he did?! And he seriously didnt think anyone was going to figure out his wife's body dumped in the open at his workplace was done by him?! Weirder than the Scott and Lacy case because wtf?!?!
Did u notice in interview he says "if they're HUDDLED UP somewhere"?
Yes - I picked out these poimts of interest - he has Bella in past tense, that she was going to start kindergarten next Monday - he gave away that he knew she wouldn't be coming home or starting kindergarten:
CW: Yes, like, because Bella was gonna start kindergarten - next - next Monday, and they - they were just getting ready to start, start back again
All this was bizarre - why would he assume, once he got home, that Shannon would be staying at a friend's house, rather than just visiting. And he wants her back so bad *if* she's vanished.
CW: …Like if she wasn't here, like where did she go? Like, once I got here, it was like, alright, who can I call? Who do I know that she could be with right now - if she went to a friend's house, where could she be staying. And we went through everybody - I mean just everything in my, in my contact list, in her, her friends contact list and nothing has come up, everybody has said like, they haven't heard from her either. I'm just hoping right now that she's - somewhere safe, and maybe she's just - she's there, but right now it's just like if she's vanished, like I want her back so bad, I want those kids back so bad.
He didn't make any type of denial, though given the opportunity.
He 'wanted that knock on the door' - elsewhere he said they had a doorbell.
Do three and four year olds knock their fathers to the ground?
Trauma associated with the house - he speaks like somebody died there, and doesn't want to stay there alone.
Interviewer:…your first thought is where are they? - you want them back. Your second thought, is that you're afraid people think you may have done something?
CW: yes, I mean - nothing, nothing - like everybody is going to have their own opinion on anything like this, I just want them people to know I want my family back, I want them safe and I want them here, like this house is not the same - I mean - I - last night was traumatic, last night was - I, I can't really stay in this house again - like, with nobody here, and last night I wanted, I wanted that knock on the door, I wanted to see those kids run in, run in - just barrel rush me, give me a hug, knock me to the ground - but that didn't happen.
Good catch on the past tense regarding Bella & kindergarten! I cant believe the special day of 1st day of Kimdergarten was coming up & he took that from
her yet he is laughing & smiling while he talks about it?! I hope they FRY him!!!
He really perseverates on the word "vanished" in his poorly pieced together narrative.
I also noted he had said that he saw his wife when she came home at 2:00 am and "it was quick". (Apparently he killed her quickly).
Interviewer: Who are you going to stay with tonight?
CW: Probably my friends Nick and Amanda - just I mean, unless something develops in the next hours or so like, i'm hoping that somebody sees something or somebody knows something and comes forward,
Interviewer: What's the hardest part of all this for you?
CW: Not knowing. Not knowing if they're safe or if they're in trouble. Like, there's just that - that variable, like, I'm not sure, I mean I can't do anything right now from where I'm at - like I'm not sure if they're safe somewhere, just huddled up somewhere, or - if
they're in trouble, and knowing that they could be in trouble - it it's earth shattering right now, and it doesn't feel like it's real.
Yes, 'huddled' is strange - people,huddle together for safety, out of fear, or because they are cold - so if they were huddled up somewhere, it would not be because they were safe and staying with a friend, but more likely because they weren't. Or huddled in sense of curling up in a ball, not taking up much space - like to fit in a barrel. Whether they were safe or in trouble awas 'just that variable'.
I think he killed her as soon as she walked in the door - hopefully she didn't know much about it, or that he murdered the kids, An extreme way to avoid more kindergarten fees.
Apparently, it was he who wanted the third child - that's in the interview with Nicholas and Amanda. There's also a video of him, made by Shannon, coming into the room where she is, to discover she is pregnant - Shannon shows him the pregnancy test, about which he seems pleased. All very strange. There is no law in that state relating to the murder of an unborn child, the baby, who has been as murdered as his mother and sisters, will not even be a statistic.
How does he perseverate on the word 'vanished'?
Shannan, not Shannon - that's auto-incorrecting.
You are probably right--he probably did kill her as soon as she walked in the door.
He probably barrel rushed her and knocked her down and strangled her with a cord I am guessing unless he did it with his bare hands.
The behavior is unfathomable...
Yes, I have read about the "picture perfect" marriage and how he "gave her the strength" to have a 3rd child...like he wanted the 3rd child.
One thing I noticed is that in the "picture perfect" family photots, his smile seems TOO perfect if that makes sense...that along with I noticed he seems to have above-average grooming skills regarding his facial hair, it seems shaped a little too well. It struck me that he may have "gay face". Could he have exploded with rage due to being gay and "trapped" in a hetero marriage?
He is clearly a psychopath and he is clearly proud of what he did. He is a real sicko.
He leaked out that they were "huddled up" in the gas tank...that they were together in a cramped space.
What do I mean by perseverate on the word vanished? Maybe perseverate is not the right word. What I mean is it's's a cue, it's a word he keeps going back to which has a different meaning in his head...it means "if their life force has vanished from them"/"if they are dead." I can't think of the word...it is not perseverate, it is a type of symbolism or representative word. "Vanished" means something different in his mind...it represents "life force vanishing/death".
I think this statement says it all. DW isn't saying [it] didn't happen. He's saying in a persuasive manner, that it could not ever (future conditional) happen in his LIFEtime. The word "life" could be seepage, as in she paid with her life for wanting to leave him. Lifetime also has a time line associated with it.
Six weeks is a long time for a young family to be apart. There is no proof that money was the motivating factor for murder and no one is saying what the motive was; however, money is within the top three reasons marriages break up. It could have "simply" been about Shannan leaving and ruining the facade DW wanted everyone to believe.
Babies are sometimes a means to re-solidify marriages. She had to be convinced to have another baby, what else did he have to convince her of, I wonder.
Chris Watts is an absolute psycho. Im not sure I can remember a case where the father strangled his own kids? Then laughing and smiling.
Interesting about seepage of the word "lifetime".
We need to review the language to establish motive.
Clearly he had been fantasizing about going on a "rampage".
Do you think he has "gay face" & his voice is highpitched.
Could some secret he had have leaked out?
Embedded statement: "...they're not safe. Last night I HAD EVERY LIGHT IN THE HOUSE ON"
waiting for them to COME THROUGH THE DOOR"
sexual assault/rape
"throw anything out there"
wife was out there in the open thrown away like trash
Celeste means heaven doesnt it?
Wonder if he was the one who named her & premeditated the killing for years.
Check out this interview with a psychiatrist watching the interview. He seems to think Chris Watts is innocent & seems credible even after Watts had been arrested.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fnUVWWfR1L8
Since the friend, Nikole, dropped Shannan off at home at 2:00 am after picking her up from the airport, why was she so concerned abouthearimg from Shannan later on that morning that she showed up at the house at noon to check on her? That seems like an overreaction!
Could that friend have been involved? Why was that friend picking her up at 2 am instead of her just taking an airport taxi? Something seems off.
I read the 2 met at Nikole's tanning salon and had become "fast friends".
Could hunby have been having an affair with Nikole?
They had filed for bankruptcy and that would have gotten rid of their debt. Having the 3rd child would not have been that bad, they already have the crib etc from the other kids.
I would bet dollars to doughnuts that "Dad" is gay. Look at his shirt. I don't get a hetero vibe off him, maybe bi, but not straight up hetero.
Straight men, even if they want out, or want to leave for a shiny new toy (affair partner), still want the kids in their lives in some way. Gay men feigning to be hetero in a marriage, when they start getting/giving BJs in parking lots and reeking bathrooms at truck stops and stores while their wife is shopping, they want out so they can go get their weaner pleasured every night by smelly men with NO StRINGS attached! They also don't anyone to know about their secret habit and wifey and the kids could
FIND OUT and make it much harder for them to find time and money to go get their weaner pleasured by another man every night, probably multiple times per night, bc I suspect a lot of these gay closeted men pay for it. I suspect it is a culture of prostitution amongst the closeted gay men.
The whole marriage had to be a lie from the very beginning for him to have done what he did.
His facial hair is just a little too neatly styled. Queer eye for the straight gay?
I am a makeup artist & I can tell you that Chris Watts, even post homocide, has his beardline shaped just right to accentuate his cheekbones. You don't typically see that in men, it is difficult for women to even apply blush correctly to accentuate cheekbones--I am able to do it bc I am a makeup artist.
He looks like he goes to a Turkish barber, but maybe not in the last couple of weeks. Did anyone see, or transcribe, the part of the interview when he was asked about his t-shirt? He went on an awful lot about his new t-shirt, which he said Shannan usually gets from Amazon, but not that one, and how that type is his favourite shirt - which was unexpected, given the circumstances. I would have looked at the interviewer as if she was crazy, and asked, "Who cares?", if she had asked about my t-shirt when my wife and kids were missing. Rather than react dismissively, he was very proud of his t-shirt - maybe the reporters, from asking round, knew something about it that the viewers don't.
That psychiatrist should learn SA - he thought Chris Watts story was well thought out, and that he sounded truthful, when it wasn't, and he didn't. Who would care about their t-shirt? Why rush home when Shannan wasn't answering the door if the last thing she had said to him was that she was visiting a friend? She might just have done that, or taken the kids out for a walk, or they all might have been napping, or she didn't feel sociable so didn't answer the door - no need to rush home and check. The friend, and he, over-reacted to her not answering the door, from the outset, IMO. He didn't think it out that well - he was too worried too soon, which probably raised suspicions.
I don't think the friend, Nicole, overreacted. She knew that Shannan had an appointment with the doctor that day. I think Nicole was supposed to watch Belle and Celeste while Shannan was at the doctor's. She knew that Shannnan wouldn't miss her prenatal check up. That's why Nicole was alarmed and called Chris and the police.
BTW, The poor children were found in a vat like tank. That is a large tank, "fathoms" deep with a steep "inclination".
The psychologist/psychiatrist was utterly useless. He is usually an expert witness for the defense. So there's that.
@heyjude,
I didn't see anything about interviewer asking him about the T-shirt?
If he says Shannan didn't buy it for him off Amazon and it is his new favorite shirt, maybe one of his bathroom buddies got a crush on him and gave him that shirt to solidify their BJ connection?
@heyjude, I agree with your take on the interview with psychiatrist although I do have to agree with the psychiatrist that it is somewhat unusual that he held his composure as well as he did, didn't slip up much...yes we as SA analysts can see through it very quickly and so can most other observers, but he talks a lot and does stick to some kind of story not even 24 hours after committing an incredibly heinous act against his own family.
My take on that however is that he has simply done it before. He has killed before, and, I am guessing, probably many times. He did put the wife in a shallow grave (she was not just left out on the ground as was being said a few days ago) and putting the kids in gas tanks along with keeping his composure quite well indicates he is quite good at killing and disposing bodies. He actually turned himself in due to pressure from his family, but had he not, he probably would have gotten away with it.
My take on his composure during the interview and the amount of thought and quick action he took to quite cleverly hide the bodies should be a RED FLAG for them to open their cold case files.
Joe said
"BTW, The poor children were found in a vat like tank. That is a large tank, "fathoms" deep with a steep "inclination"."
Wow, more seepage from that monster! (I did consider the word "fathoms"--the book 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea came to mind, but I discounted it, not knowing the tank was large. That is certainly leakage considering the size of the tank. How utterly monstrous of him!!!!!!!!!!
Peter should use that interview as a teaching example for leakage.
Disgusting that that psychiatrist usually works for the defense. If anything Chris
WAtts' composure indicates he has killed before many times imo.
And he's wearin a gay exercise shirt in the video, the kind gay guys wear to show off their pecs. Works out, does push ups, that's not a hetero guy married with 3 kids. He's trying to stay in shape and wears clothes that cling to his figure to attract other men. The relationship was fake from day 1, he was using her for something, probably to be his beard from the moment he reached out to her through FB!!! FAke from day 1 because noone who genuinely loved or even cared for someone at all ever could do such a ghastly thing to the people he claimed to care about. I am sure there were red flags very early on. Such a shame Shannan missed them.
I know a lot of people (BDL "experts") have analized this, however. This guy good, he is my favourite BDL expert without a shadow of a doubt.
Chris Watts has reportedly confessed to murdering his wife, Shanann who was fifteen weeks pregnant as well as his two daughters, three-year-old Celeste and four-year-old Bella.
The above interview was conducted and published on Thursday 16 August 2018. Watts was arrested and he confessed the next day.
What follows is a partial nonverbal and paralanguage analysis of Chris Watts in this specific video.
There are a multitude of tells which dramatically jump out in Watts' conduct. One of the most glaring is conspicuous by its absence. There are virtually no displays of sadness, grief, or empathy - with one key exception...
https://www.bodylanguagesuccess.com/2018/08/body-language-analysis-no-4339-pre.html?m=1
Here he talks about the t-shirt at 6.50. - he says she got it off Amazon, interviewer asks, "Wasn't she just there?" (North Carolina) - he changes his mind and agrees, says she probably got it there, bit she usually gets them from Amazon. Have a listen as that's not word for word.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMIFFuKs1Oc
Joe - you're right, as the car was there, and if the friend was meant to babysit due to a doctor appointment, then she didn't over-react. I think the expected first consideration in that circumstance would be that Shannan was most likely in the home, but that she had an accident, or there was some other reason why she couldn't answer the door - but he went straight to her not being there - I think most people would think, as she was expecting her babysitter, and her car was there, that she was at home but unable to answer the door - he didn't think that out too well.
Thanks John, That looks fascinating. I will respond more thoroughly this evening.
Jude, that is very odd about the T-shirt. What do you maje of it?
I read that Shannan had been about to leave him. Why? She suspected an affair but taking the kids to her psrents for 6 weeks suggests that she wanted to get the kids away from him bc he was a danger to them. She may have suspected him of sexually abusing them. That coukd have led him to kill all 3 of them.
Also, the media is sayimg he may have put the girls in the oil tank to disguise the odor, yet he buried his wife in a shallow grave, so that explanation does not suffice. He may have put them in the oil tanks to disguise the fact he had sexually abused them. He was trying to hide & dosguise whatever had been done to the girls moreso than the wife.
@ John,
That was a great link you posted! Excellent catch about CW not wearing his wedding ring! The man was already flying solo.
This especially resonated with me:
"Not only did Chris Watts never cry during this interview, nor did he even exhibit any suppression of tears - but unbelievably, he frequently smiled. Smiling in this setting is extremely out-of-context. This is a classic display of what is known as "Duping Delight", wherein a person feels a true joy-happiness in their belief that they are fooling you.
And also, Jude's reference to his I-centric response about his t-shirt. He seemed really proud about the shirt. Interesting that he would take the time to put on something that he really likes, "a lot" for an interview. I wonder if any one of us would even bother to think to change our clothes.
It struck me odd, the more I was going through Shannan's Instagram account and looking at pictures depicting the family in various circumstances, DW's smile and facial expression rarely changed which made me think they were always doing the "same thing". What he admitted to doing (lack of empathy/conscience) really defines his psyche. In hindsight his monolithic smile was nothing more than a mask he wore every day. And the way neighbours/friends described him, really hits home that he was only ever willing to show one side to the world: that he is/was "such a great guy".
Peter recently blogged about narcissistic personality disorder and how [we] over use this label to describe people. In this case, I believe Chris Watts is a full blown narcissist of the most dangerous kind. If I'm right and Shannan revealed she was leaving him, unknowingly, that was the most dangerous thing she could have done.
Watts murder case: Friend who says she was the last to see Shanann alive knew something was 'seriously wrong'
FREDERICK, Colo. -- Colorado woman Nickole Atkinson says she did not want to believe the worst when she reported her friend Shanann Watts missing last Monday, but there were signs "that there was something seriously wrong."
"It was one of my worst nightmares. I didn't know what to say or do," Atkinson said. "I sat on our bed for, I don't know how long, and didn't move because I didn't want to think that they weren't coming back."
Atkinson dropped Shanann off at her home early in the morning on Aug. 13 after a business trip. She believes she was the last person to see Shanann alive.
Shanann, who was 15 weeks pregnant, missed a doctor's appointment that day, and Atkinson didn't hear from her, either.
"She was going to get to hear the baby's heartbeat and see how he or she was doing," Atkinson said.
A neighbor's security footage shows no movement in the house that day aside from Shanann's husband, Christopher.
Three days later, the bodies of Shanann, 34, and her two young daughters Bella, 4, and Celeste, 3, were found on a property belonging to Anadarko Petroleum, the company Christopher worked for.
Christopher has been arrested in connection to the murders. He has reportedly confessed.
Atkinson said the pair appeared to be happily married, but that Shanann "entertained the idea" that Christopher might have been cheating.
"He wasn't being the loving Chris that he normally was. He wasn't touching or hugging or doing stuff like that," she said.
Prior to his arrest and alleged confession, Christopher gave media interviews in which he pleaded for help finding his wife and daughters.
Atkinson said that Christopher seemed unconcerned when she first told him that she hadn't heard from Shanann. She said she had suspicions Christopher may have been involved but she didn't want to believe it.
"He just kept saying that he didn't know where she was and that she was on a playdate. But he couldn't give us the name of the friend," Atkinson said. "Anyone in their right mind will start piecing things together and think something had happened, but you don't want to go there. You want to believe the best in people."
On Monday Watts is expected to be formally charged with three counts of first-degree murder, and an affidavit is expected to be released outlining a potential motive.
https://abc13.com/friend-says-she-was-the-last-to-see-shanann-watts-alive/4007526/
In the context of whether there was a "mistress"...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eyl3P0xYD2U&frags=pl%2Cwn
"Shannan had jokingly mentioned it, uh. But honestly, she wasn't, she wasn't worried. Um, but you know, when your husband doesn't answer your text messages - as a woman - your thought process just goes to the, the wrong things."
I agree with this statement. When a man doesn't want to be close to his wife/girlfriend anymore, and puts them on "ignore", something is "wrong".
Sol said...
CW has been charged with first degree murder and body tampering as well as unlawful termination of pregnancy. I have a bad feeling that CW is going to plead not guilty to murder. I hope I'm wrong, but I suspect that he will blame Shannan for the murders of Belle and Celeste, and will say that he killed Shannan in self defense, then panicked and hid the bodies.
Closeted homo rage is potent.
He hated them all for "trapping" him (although they were also his "beard".
He lied about the T-shirt because he either bought it himself to impress men or another man bought it for him.
Definite sign of affair is when guy starts buying himself new clothes, not answering texts, not excited about pregnancy.
Soon his boyfriend will come out of the woodwork.
You all are definitely going to want to read this!
https://www.courts.state.co.us/userfiles/file/Court_Probation/19th_Judicial_District/caseofinterest/2018CR2003/001/Warrantless%20Arrest%20Affidavit.pdf
Yes. He's blaming Shanann. Unbelievable.
@ Joe
Thank you!!! Wow, unbelievable.
""A two day investigation revealed Chris was actively involved in an affair with a co-worker which he denied in previous interviews."
Why would he wipe out his family, though? It would be interesting to learn whether there are parallels between CW and Andrea Yates's psychological profiles?
Sorry I mean Susan Smith.
I just read the affidavit.
I can't even. Oh my God.
He is also leaking more sexual abuse indicators
"sprawled out on the bed"
This devil is a rapist. Mark my words!
"While in the bedroom, via baby monitor located on Shanann's night stand, he observed Bella "sprawled" out on her bed and blue and Shenann actively strangling Celeste. Chris said he went into a rage and ultimately strangled Shannon to death."
If Shanann discovered Bella was blue, and Celeste was not, I bet Shanann was trying to REVIVE Celeste. Given how the detectives found the house (luggage at the bottom of the stairs, as were Shanann's shoes, her phone between the cushions of a couch,) I bet she didn't have time to check on the kids before she was ambushed with CW's "emotional talk".
[They say] that whatever a narc is guilty of, they accuse their victim of (in this instance, killing the girls). Frankly I'm surprised he finally admitted to infidelity. Although, the jury is still out on whether he'll blame Shanann for that, too.
Sorry about the autocorrect. I have to keep correcting *Shanann* even though my laptop doesn't want me to! argh.
@ Nic, youre probably right--she prob was trying to revive her.
Why were bedsheets removed?
And yep if you want to know what a narc is doing, just listen to whst they are accusing you and others of doing!
He was prob jeslous of the new baby & males may not be his preferred victim. When he found out the baby was a boy his anger began building.
Hang him high!!!
I did not see that explanation coming from the husband.
Fascinating that in the interview he said "girls barrelling over him" and he did in fact, put both girls in oil barrels
Lynda, Did you see any explanation coming from him in the interview?
Why does the male neighbor on the interview look like Powder from the movie "Powder"?
Shannan had lupus?
Maybe Chris felt outraged about days he had to care for the kids while she was sick? Narcissists can feel extremely entitled and if someone is sick that can be considered selfishness. Sociopaths would regard illness as weakness deserving of rage.
Chris had been wearing a weight loss patch from Shannan's company? Gee, I wonder if sales will drop off now after this incident.
Oh that's really sad, the neighbor's couple's daughter was best friends with the Watts' daughter. Oh my God. Psychopaths really don't care about the trail of damage and trauma they cause. The poor little girls.
It is really weird when people (like Chris) smile with the exact same smile in every picture. It must be a mask. Every picture of me you can see emotion on my face. It is so weird when someone smiles with a replica smile in every pic on FB.
Sheila..
I guess I just figured he would cave and confess the truth, he snapped, she attacked him after he told her he was leaving, he kills her defending himself, life is ruined, doesn't want children to live without mom, was gonna kill himself but chickened out, etc blah, blah...not try to pin it on her. Idk, I just wasn't thinking of that explanation at all.
What does no contact with a narc mean or consist of?
The kids went over to their grandparents for 6 weeks. What had they done during those weeks? How long did Shannan go away? Was it one ore two weeks? A weekend?
Could it be that Nicole was told things as a friend and knew something about the situation?
He said "she would go to a friend with the kids.
Could it be that when she came home this was what they discussed about, maybe she wanted to look at the kids in their rooms how they were sleeping when he "needed" to act.
Maybe she had told Nikole she would contact her to tell her how things went at arrival. And when she didn't and wasn't reachable she worried and went to the house to look for her.
Today I read he's blaming the mother. He's even more of a monster then he already showed with his interviews. Does he really think anyone will buy his story?
Don't let looks deceid you......this is the "perfect example" of why you shouldn't.
I noticed in this case Richard Eikelenboom being involved in this case. He's Dutch and does have some controversy about his way of working, here in the Netherlands. When I noticed his name I remembered he had been involved in the Jonbenet murdercase and if I am not mistaken he was involved in the Casey Anthony murdercase.
I've been reading some things about him in Dutch media, it's not all positive.
Maybe I can make some (translated) transcripts of interviews with him on Dutch TV.
Thanks everyone for your input........it's great to learn from you all!
Anonymous Dave said...
It means that relations with the narc is so toxic, you drop them (and their flying monkeys,) from your life in all ways - physically and communicatively. This means socially, in writing/email, via cell, social media, FaceTime, through others, etc., etc. No contact means no "supply" ergo they are forced to seek narc supply from another "source". Typically a narc will conduct a smear campaign against the one going no contact with the intention of driving a wedge between you and any friendships/relations you share with the them. If your friends are truly your friends, and your extended family "know you", they'll see through the campaign. Otherwise, you're better off without them. In time the void will be filled with emotionally healthy people. If the narc is your spouse they have to be the ones to discard, not you. [Ego.] So leaving one is especially dangerous. Typically they do this when you're at your most vulnerable, like when you're sick, recovering from surgery or someone important in your life dies.
Speculation: I'm not surprised CW apparently chose to dump Shanann when he did. If they were having marital problems because of (? finance, ?intimacy, etc.) and she was wanting to separate before, he might have set her up for a big fall by talking her into staying and recapturing the "magic" by having another baby. (Narcs are notorious for wanting to get back together just so that they can be the "dumper".) Or, he could just be fickle and something better came along (new supply) after their reconciliation. Shanann was vulnerable (pregnant) and it would be a knock against the Thriving image she was projecting (the devastation making him "feel" even more relevant and important/negative supply.) But something snapped. Maybe she couldn't take [it] anymore, was "strong" and said she was leaving with the kids and would have Nico on her own. Maybe that conversation happened *before* she left for her business trip and he wasn't going to let that happen - why the girls were killed after the bday party but before she got home. Interesting too, Shanann's flight was delayed; why they arrived at 2am and her friend Nicole, the one who dropped her off at 2am, was the friend who she was suppose to see that morning. CW may not have realized how far "out the door" she was. And the delay meant that he had time to sit and stew in what HE had done. (HE described Bella as "blue"/premeditated/not a crime of "passion" at all.)
Sheets - maybe he had company while Shanann and the kids were away and he hadn't washed the sheets, yet. Maybe if the sheets are analyzed the DNA wouldn't belong to the couple LE would expect, and he knew this. (Motive.)
All speculation on my part.
Concealment. "going to" is future tense which requires an auxiliary verb. Going to, what? Stay? Live?
Also, there is missing time x 3
[and] I have no inclination (seepage)
[and] that's the last thing I heard - what happened to the time between when she was she was "going to X" and "heard"
[and] that was it - what happened between the last thing he heard and that was "it"?
[It] is delineated as a specific event in time, so significant, yet needs to persuade the listener to believe that it was "very" vague. Making "it" (concealment) sensitive.
Dave said,
Speculation: Being nearly 3 hours late, and not realizing it was because of a flight delay, so assuming she was hanging out with a friend instead of coming straight home to her "responsibilities", (not responding to his texts because she was in-flight/paranoia) could send him on a (jealous) rampage.
CW did say that she wasn't responding to his texts (the next day while he was at work and that it was 'okay" (not sure about the quote but it struck me as sensitive). LE would be able to see if texts were sent while Shanann was en route and their tone.
I highly doubt CW will ever be forthcoming about "motive".
He said, "I texted her a few times, called her, I didn't get a response, which, that was a little off. And then her friend, Nicole, showed up about a little after Noon. I could see on the doorbell camera. That's when I was just like, something's not right if she's not answering the door and she said the car was here. It was like, I had to go home..."
There is missing time between when he was texting Shanann and when Nicole show's up [the next day?].
Based on the interview Nicole gave, we know Nicole had to call him at work and convince him something was wrong/for him to come home. (He was insisting she was at a playdate, but couldn't say with whom/where. So is lying about seeing Nicole on the doorbell camera. He also says he "had" to go home which goes with Nicole's statement that she had to convince him something was wrong and to come home.
Maybe he locked Shanann out (is there a chain lock?) which forced her to ring the bell when she arrived home. CW doesn't say what he "saw" on the doorbell camera, or whom.
Or possibly, door/camera/see = a porn addiction? On-line "romance". Sharing pics of the kids? Maybe he was on-line when Shannan arrived home and the doorbell/camera announced her arrival allowing him time to shut off the porn/on-line flirting?
Being on-line and "seeing" is mentioned in a roundabout way. Maybe LE should confiscate his computer/laptop and make it part of the investigation.
Being on-line and "seeing" is mentioned in a roundabout way. the other thing that goes with doorbell is doorknob.
Bell also marks time. As in time is "up".
CW talks about purchasing his shirt on line but the reporter asked if Shanann brought it back for him from NC. He seemed confused and need to correct himself. Maybe his on-line "purchases" should be investigated.
Willow said...
CW speaks in a controlled manner. As if he were in a movie scripted by himself of himself, so that he takes his own illusions for real. That's why he's so credible.
Why did he have to murder? Why couldn't he just go away, or something? If he was attached to an other person why not just start anew somewhere? That would be a normal way of handling it. CW tells us he is far from anything normal.
The marriage was a front for him. So is the supposed attraction at the work place. He knows well how to pretend normalcy and he is not doing this for the first time.
He needed to get rid of S., otherwise he couldn't have controlled the narrative. There the most important thing was, who leaves whom.
The children he needed to kill collaterally as justification for him to silence the wife.
If he also abused the children he must have had schemes and strategies ready years ago for the time when the children are older. He didn't plan jail-time for himself for sure. And he knew he could end up there if he isn't careful.
It is possible that one of the siblings was better able to resist grooming and could expose the abuser to relatives with whom the children stayed as mother travelled. Perhaps there was a process of truth coming out on the way?
If he is a typical abuser of children he picked one of the siblings as his main supply whom he also dishonored and depreciated posthumously.
Accusing Shanann of two murders degrades her and serves as a retaliation.
He had an affair at work. The gender of partner hasn't yet been told, has it?
The wife had lupus which is another way of saying, syphilis. From where and when did she contract it?
@Nic,
Yep, he gave her the "strength" to have a 3rd child, so he could cause maximum devastation when he left her--she would have to then go through the whole pregnancy alone with 2 toddlers & lupus. When she spoke of leaving, that would ruin his plan of being the one to leave her, hence causing the maximum devastation & making him feel so powerful.
I dont see people mentioning the FB post Shannan had put up of the pic of the thing the daughter had done with a doll covered wiith a sheet going up to a pillow making it look like a full-sized deceased adult. If the dauggter, in fact, did that, not Chris, it should cause us to question whether one of the daughter's witnessed him either killing or the aftermath of him killing someone. Where else would the little girl have seen a human body covered with a sheet pulled all the way over its face. Chris' composure after killing his family & his clever disposal of their bodies strongly suggest he has killed before several times. THAT could also be a part of his motive...of the daughter had wotnessed him killing or the aftermath of him killing. When he saw her do that with the doll & sheet he may have feared that others will find out he had killed someone (s) & he decided to get rid of them all. And note the Mafia-style disposal of the bodies.
@Nic, I noted that sensitivity also regarding computer/camera...I definitely think he was involved in online porn of the nature that would use a camera.
That is an interesting point--he prob did lock her out. I had a similar thought when he was talking about "all the doors were locked/she could only get out through the garage/no cameras back there"
"she could only get out through garage"
he either locked her out or locked her in or both.
And very sensitive re: "saw on doorbell camera"
Since he killed the kids before she got home, I bet he was keeping a close eye on the doorbell camera to see when she would arrive so he could ambush her.
I think one or more of them knew about criminal actions he had done ie. killing, child porn etc
He was definitely abusing one of the girls. His plan was probably to kill her when she old enough to articulate what was happening. In the baby announcenent video, one of the girls appears to be experiencing physical discomfort...sign of abuse. Its in his language regardless...RED FLAGS of sexial abuse. Ive never seen so many linguistic indicators of sexual abuse in any case we've looked at.
Lupus = Syphillis you wrote?
Are you being serious?
@Nic, Thank you for your explanation of going no contact with a narc!
Should you also block them if you see them on a social media platform or just leave them unblocked if they havent contacted you (yet)?
Deception & Pronouns: Lanny Davis
Rev. Thomas Chantry Child Abuse Trial
Detecting Deception on AM Coast to Coast August 22...
Results: Statement Analysis Quiz for Law Enforceme...
Statement Analysis Quiz for Law Enforcement
Deception Detection: Training and Benefits
Chappaquiddick Ted Kennedy Statement Analyzed
Fiona Barnet Accuses Professor Katarina Fritzon of...
Passivity and Sexuality in Language: "Trickle Tru...
Past Tense: Mollie Tibbetts and Missing Persons
Mollie Tibbets, 20 Missing
Linguistic Empathy In Analysis

redpajama_set_name: RedPajamaCommonCrawl