text:
Howard, This Is Not About You, This Is About Your Country
May 31, 2008 /233 Comments/in 2008 Presidential Election /by emptywheel
Howard Dean has kicked off this meeting with a great speech. He emphasized the superb turnout Democrats have had this year. And he emphasized how strong we are to be able come together and disagree.
He condemned the sexist and racist statements made over the course of the primary. When he said, "on the part of the media" there were some grumblings.
He then told a story about when he was running for President. He was really really angry at what the Democratic Party had done. And he was ranting. (I imagine it went something like Argghhhhhh!!) And then Al Gore called. It took him about 20 minutes, but finally, Gore said, "Howard, this is not about you, this is about your country."
The speech made me proud to own a orange cap from Iowa.
Oh, and then he said, "we have to honor the voters who turned out, and also those voters who didn't turn out in MI."
I got a lot of stares, up here in the media seats, for clapping loudly.
It was a good speech. We did good when we elected that man.
Tags: DNC, Howard Dean
https://www.emptywheel.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/Logo-Web.png 0 0 emptywheel https://www.emptywheel.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/Logo-Web.png emptywheel2008-05-31 07:04:332008-05-31 07:04:33Howard, This Is Not About You, This Is About Your Country
perris says:
We did good when we elected that man.
I don't know who you mean, dean for head of our party of gore for president but it doesn't matter, I agree wholeheartedly
Loo Hoo. says:
Well, I see that you have distinguished yourself already, Marcy! Way to go.
BoxTurtle says:
Maybe I'm undercaffiniated or just stupid, but I really don't understand this Kabuki. Nothing is going to happen that will change the current standings, this entire clusterf*ck should be over by next Wednesday afternoon at the latest. So why the big fight? Is it all about attitudes in Novemeber in those two critical states, the DNC has to prove they care?
Boxturtle (Confused as to what Hillary expects to gain)
RevDeb says:
Can't speak for this crew but in church the "process" is as important as the "product." In order to move forward on any item of contention it has to be talked out otherwise people don't feel they have been heard and go off in a huff. At least if it is a clean process they have less to complain about.
I see that point and I agree. But that's from the states viewpoints. What's Hillary trying to get out of this? She has to know that whatever comes out will not be something that will change the end result.
So why is she so desperate? She'd have to get all the delegates for herself to make a difference and she's known that won't happen for months.
Boxturtle (Hillary is smart, she has a plan. But I can't figure it out)
Sadly even though this is not about Hillary, she has chosen to make everything about Hillary. Or at least that's my reading. Wish it weren't.
C'est vrais.
and it IS sad.
heart breaking if you are a life long feminist, like me.
good morning, RevDeb.
Good morning siri.
I have so much work to do today. I really have to get at it. This is all making me crazy.
I hope your day is smooth and all gets done. but you will be missed through this k-wrap.
yours is always the calming voice in here.
Well, Rev Deb's and Norske Flamethrower's. *g*
HE'S a mellow one, eh????
NorskeFlamethrower says:
1,859 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN' GOEZ ON AND ON AND…
Citizen barbara:
"..well Rev Deb's and NorskeFlamethroer's."
Why thank you, Sister barbara but I think Rev Deb is the glue that holds one of wheels on this bus.
KEEP THE FAITH AND LISTEN, BY THEIR WORDS YOU SHALL REALLY KNOW THEM!!
Adie says:
Hey RevDeb, relax and know it's in good hands. I imagine you'll check in on occasion? Go in peace, knowing good-hearted, smart puppies are on the case.
The gang around here doesn't seem to miss much, especially with Marcy and Jane at the head of the pack. ;->
I know it's in good hands. It's hard for me to discipline myself to stay away though. And as for a calming presence, ask Mr. Rev. how I behave in front of the teevee during KO or other news casts. I don't think he would used the word calming. Or ask scarecrow. He's been around me enough to know.
Interesting seeing the rogues gallery of the DNC on teevee.
Understood on perhaps more levels than you can possibly imagine! Mr. Adie would give a guffaw if he saw your comment. It's eerily similar here.
I hope your work today goes smoothly. Thanks for all that you do. You are indeed a gift to this crazy pack. Always enjoy your thotful comments.
P. E. A. C. E.
IrishJIm says:
Amen. I am burnt out on the cherry picking of rules. The twisted logic. The divisive rhetoric. The wanting to changes the rules only in order to self serve. I thought Democrats were better than this.
RevDeb – When you study the history and theory of Constitutional law, as evinced not only in the Constitution itself, but as described in the Federalist Papers and other contemporaneous history, you learn that the whole ball of wax is about the primacy of the process, not the individual person or result.
yep. Or at least it seems to have been until this maladministration chose to hide the process or subvert it at every turn.
Oh for a total housecleaning that brings us back to the rule of law having meaning. Please.
answer to that: The White House. And the power and prestige that goes with it.
emptywheel says:
You can't get to Wednesday's or Friday's resolution without first going through this process. So it is mostly kabuki, but it's kabuki that has to happen before we get into the stuff that matters again.
bigbrother says:
Seen it as an opportunity to diffuse the angst from the campaigns and theirstaff and move to a umiteds General Election. This is an opportunity to get the party on the same page and lose the baggage. When all agree there should be no more devisiveness. Its about Americas future and implementing an agenda to get work done. Just sayin.
This is an opportunity to get the party on the same page and lose the baggage
This makes sense. I guess I understand why it needs to be a Big Deal rather than just a few phone calls. Still don't see why Camp Clinton is fighting so hard, but maybe that's just Hillary. One of the things I like about her is she's a never say die fighter.
Boxturtle (Kabuki is fun to watch on occasion)
Well, and as I was saying to someone who was more involved in this process than me, the problem is Obama can't make all the obvious moves until Hillary concedes. So you've got to go through this, get a final number, and then we can go forward.
Do you think Clinton will conceed after this meeting or will she continue to try to switch Super D's?
I still feel like we're spending entirely too much time doing things other than going after McBush.
Boxturtle (Enemy of my enemy is my friend)
JMorgan says:
Quit? Clinton is spending her summer vacation trying to poach pledged delegates, in addition to superdelegates.
She's already said it.
noblejoanie says:
Not to sound snarky, but would you describe superdelegates who switched from HRC to BO as "poached"?
She did THAT to herself. After all she's done, i don't blame them and I don't consider them "poached". I consider them as having come to reality.
No. She'll concede after enough supers commit to Obama on Wednesday and Thursday to give him the win, even with MI and FL seated in full. Then she'll concede.
Hugh says:
Merely out of curiosity, what do you base this on?
Well and that's the CRUX of this primary. I don't WANT a fighter. i think we NEED a peace maker. and as for her "never say die", that does not apply to the millions of people in Iran, I guess.
Another way is to hold this meeting on a Northwest Airlines plane.
Just imagine had Dean been elected president. I could cry. Just cry.
juslin says:
it'll be interesting to see how this is going to be settled without bitterness……
if they can't do that, they are not natural leaders. and not worthy of leading this process or this country. i need to see a return to civility today. i'm in prayer.
i agree wholeheartedly but up to this its been nasty imo….
i like to think there are Founding Fathers there, in spirit.
well, we do know they are not resting in their graves since the republicans highjacked their country in the coup we now suffer
I suppose they are indeed there right now
al75 says:
Can the Dems grow up, and be a real political movement, that isn't "about" any one person? That's one of the questions at issue today. Our hopes are resting on the answer.
hi perris. i was just thinking about you. glad you are here.
*blushes*
why you ole softie you lol
Hey u guys in the back row. Those notes yer passin' must be important. Why'nt cha bring one up to the teacher to read to the class. *g*
Top of the morning to you and Jane. Keep making noise. Have to admit, I too am unclear on the actors and timing in your post. Was Dean ranting this morning and Gore called in live while you were there, or was Dean telling the story of having been ranting in the past and Gore called him with the "it's about the country" words and this is the uplifting story Dean told to you all (my vote)?
Either way the orange cap is good; you wearing those matching sandals??
katymine says:
Dean was talking about his loss in 2004 and his anger with the Democratic Party and Gore called him and said it is not about Dean but about America…
I don't like this guy jon ausman. wrong energy!
AppleCanyon2 says:
Are there any protestors out in the streets?
Anything happening on that front. I know that BO did not want protestors but did anyone show up with an OBAMA shirt to protest?
Pictures of protesters are over at AmericaBlog and it is my understanding that the Obama campaign asked his supporters not to protest, to leave the HRC protesters alone…..
Thank you, will go check it out. Have a great weekend!
Kevster says:
Hey Marcy:
Obama can afford to give up quite a few delegates and still win just to get the MI and FL issue settled. MI will be stickier because of the uncommitted vote. It's pretty galling that when HRC thought she had this thing in the bag that she agreed to the sanctions. Now that she's behind she is acting like Joan of Arc-it's disgraceful.
Is there any indication that Dean has a canvass of the remaining SDs? I have to believe that he already knows how this will play out.
I think EVERYBODY already knows how this will play out. Obama will win the nomination, Hillary will return to the senate. That's why this confuses me so, it should be able to be handled in a conference call at most.
If it was behind closed doors, I'd think that Camp Clinton was bargaining for future advantage as the price for taking their beating like a lady.
Boxturtle (She's not doing much that would make me support her in the future)
this is going to be long and boring, i can't see hanging with this for hours. i want to, but only have so much patience!
Florida thou Shall
Stop blaming the G-O-P
F-L Dems fucked up
jayt says:
well duh. It (finally) occurred to me that any state with a republican-controlled state legislature and/or electorate can cause a state's Democratic Party to be in violation of the party's rules, and quite deliberately wreak havoc by way of forcing the DNC to impose sanctions on that state's Democratic Party, by voting to move its state primary to a date sometime before the first Tuesday of February.
I'm therefore surprised that there are only two states in play today.
if this dispute isnt settled here its going to be a crazy convention……
excuse me juslin,
that train already left the station.
won't hurt to have a parade of trains, eh?!
Good Morning Jane, Marcy and Pups.
It just doesn't get much better than this. I have no connection to Iowa except you, Marcy. Makes me proud anyway.
It just feels good to have you fellas watching the store.
MrWhy says:
I know that Marcy was/is a Dean supporter, and the Dean Scream took place after the Iowa caucuses, but what beyond that is her connection with Iowa? She's a Michigander AFAIK.
She was part of the Perfect Storm event, folks who came from other states to GOTV the state of Iowa for Dean.
I went to IA to canvass for Dean when he was still winning. Those who did that got orange stocking caps to keep them warm. Someday it's going to be worth big money, but right now mr. emptywheel and McCaffrey the MilleniaLab fight over it.
I haven't a clue, other than her comment above in the post.
It's as simple as this: If she's happy, I'm happy!
She's one of my heroines in this difficult world. Thas' all. ;->
Yes! Thank you so much Marcy, for being there! And don't you worry one bit about any stares. you have MANY people at your back, you are clapping loudly for ALL of us, at FDL and friends! You do what you do. That's the best anyone's going to get from live blogs and we GOT your back!
i do not like this guy. this is NOT about Clinton, or it shouldn't be.
i don't trust him, and he's going up my spine.
hdshrnkr says:
Such feelings exist on either side there needs to be substance AND ceremony to fix them I think. I posted this to Driftglass' "its all over but the shouting" because I really want a team of smart (and probably female) bloggers to build a series of stepping stones through the rubble for the lost Hilary supporters to pick there way back, and I think both of these posts are part of it. Thanks for being there.
Tell me, though, what do we do about our loved ones who are trapped under the fallen beams of the Clinton campaign? They are like lost miners and we have to get them out. I have a dear dear woman whose heart is a democratic tiger, that is of an age where Hilary's candidacy was the direct result of her march on washington and bra burning nearly forty years ago. How do I build her a bridge into this democratic party that she can cross safely?
She sees the way strewn with broken glass, which she no doubt will pick her way through with distaste and possible terror. I want some brilliant writer, like you, drifty, to line it with fur and feathers so that her bare feet can come over to the other side in safety.
I would wager we all have one or two friends trapped in a similar state. Help us find the right tools to rescue them and bring the enormous value only they have access too.
As we struggle to release the bathwater of democracy, how can we keep the baby?
WHAT a whiner!
Oh, you're watching then, huh?
Gotta say, his presentation couldn't have endeared anyone to his case.
i'm glad you think so! he was horrible!
see my recap above.
that just stunk!
So what kind of cheese does this guy want with his whine?
poor suffering guy…. poor poor guy…
i didnt think i'd want to watch this but its holding my interest….. jus sayin ;o)
i KNEW i never wanted to watch it. i'm a HUGE MEETING HATER from way back, and i care so deeply about the outcome of this.
I'm here too. like almost againt my will thing going on.
sheeesh
i been hijacked!
lol tis true
nomolos says:
We prefer the term "Extraordinary Rendition"
i've been extrordinarily (sp?) rendered!
This is a horrific clusterf*(X$! At the most wrong time in American history. I can't believe this is happening THIS YEAR!
Actually I really like that this is open and seen both on CSPAN & MSNBC… that the goings on in the Democratic party is out in the open and full view to us….. NOT in some back room just between the guys… (with or without smoke)
Roger THAT katy!
yes, nice, but be wary of MSNBC. They have a nasty, long-standing habit of cutting away from real action to cover pretty much anything that's "breaking news". Worse, sometimes the trolls there try to explain instead of cover what's going on. Can be infuriating.
I moved over to Cspan when MSNBC kept up their blather over the DNC Pledge of Allegiance …. which I found to be rude and just wrong…
yep. smart move. imo
still, i share your pleasure that MSNB is carrying it at least in some capacity. It shows they're gonna admit something's happening. And with their foibles of late, not to mention earlier, they better get things right this time, harumph.
Late to the party here. Anything settled yet (lunch time, recess for massage, length of toilet breaks) or are we still deciding if it is better to return to the smoke filled back room?
so, was that, recapping here:
"We've been so beat up on by Rethugs, and they've been so mean to us, that we should get to break rules!"
We're ENTITLED to favors and perks!
i LIKE Nelson! But he's wrong on this, imho.
So what does having your vote count as intended have to do with FL violating very clear and specific rules within the party?
So this orange is just like that apple over there?
CTBob says:
Notwithstanding the proceedings, I'm very pleased to see this televised for all to see. Transparency is a good thing. Our party is making me proud. Even if the reason for this spectacle is unfortunate.
How about a little cheese with that whine Sen. Nelson.
I'm a Democratic voter in Florida and it was well publicized that the ballot didn't count. You'll also not hear Sen. Nelson talk about a huge property tax ballot initiative.
I was heard loud and clear when the FL Democratic committee send an email asking what path to take and I responded "Don't move the date! Don't move the date!".
new at your grocers NOW! "cheesy whine"
GeorgeSimian says:
I think it was an insanely bad decision to unseat the delegates in FL and MI, but once it was done, why aren't they just sticking with it? This is the wishy-washy attitude that Democrats are always accused of, and it's true half the time. This time it's definitely true.
I don't get what the big deal was in the first place. Who cares if they moved their primaries forward?
YEAH! Why is that such a big deal in the first place!
great point! Simian!!!!
Nelson is going through his Raygun period of anecdotal dottiness.
kabuki now……… imo
tw3k says:
Argghhhhhh!!!111
Now we are serving individual whine to every voter from FL…. what does this have to do with the state of FL violating the rules…..
Somehow I go to a saying of "throwing sand into the umpires eyes" with this line of bull…
Huffpo is reporting that Florida has been decided.
Two sources, including a high-ranking official with the Florida delegation, have confirmed that the DNC Rules and Bylaws Committee reached an agreement last night and will seat the state's entire delegation but give each delegate half a vote. The result would be a net gain of 19 delegates for Sen. Hillary Clinton, though no word yet on how the superdelegates from the state will be allocated. It is, the official says, a compromise that Sen. Barack Obama will be willing to make. "There will be theater but not much fight."
Dear Senator Nelson,
There are 4.2 million registered Democrats in Florida, and they were all told the election wasn't going to count. I am unimpressed with your argument that 1.7 million then should have their votes counted. 2.5 million of Florida Democrats have had their votes suppressed by Florida State Representatives voting unanimously to move the date of the primary up. A Florida Democrat introduced the legislation in the first place. When Florida Democratic Representatives voted for that legislation, they were consciously trading away their constituents' rights to vote in the primary to have (the overall legislation) paper ballots in the general election.
FLorida's citizens have a legitimate beef, but it is with their own state representatives.
so, inal, BUT
why didn't the Dem leaders just FIRE the FL Dem leaders and solve that problem and not disengage the people of FL???
That would have sent a message about rule changing!
And there would be no one disenfranchised.
So WHO told the voters in FL that their vote would not count?
WHO is responsible for telling people to stay home?
Interestingly, both Republican state politicians and Democratic state politicians.
Voters clearly got the message when all of the candidates for national office (Clinton, Obama, etc.) signed the pledge announcing that they wouldn't campaign in the states that moved up their primaries and, as we've all heard the tape, Clinton is also on tape in an NPR interview saying, these elections "won't count."
yes, she believed that and fully cooperated with it, right up until she didn't.
perceived self-interest is a powerful force to reckon with.
hopefully they won't end up having to drag her kicking & screaming…
Bill either. *sigh*
"…won't count, unless I'm behind (which, as we all know, cannot possibly happen), in which case…"
Let us pause just a moment to send deep THANKS to our noble, gifted techies, who successfully reamed out and relined the toobz yestidie.
Hear! Hear!, Hats off to ((((Tech Support))))!!! ;->
No matter what the result is today, I can't imagine that it'll much change the likelihood that the fight for the nomination will be officially over in about a week or so.
For the record, I'm fine with seating some delegates from FL and MI. Look at how the Republicans punished MI for moving up their primary; they too half their delegates. Nobody complained about that. It probably would have saved a lot of trouble had the DNC issued a similar punishment back in December, rather than go all in.
What gives you the idea that this will be over in a week or so?
I'm thinking after the dust from the primaries settles, a lot of the undecided supers are going to cast in with Obama. He'll hit the threshold shortly after the final primaries.
soooo many people are saying that.
and I remain in prayer here.
Whatever a SD says prior to the convention isn't going to end this. Until that vote is cast at the convention, it can be changed, as we've seen this last week with the SD from the Virgin Isles who was for Clinton before he was against her (for Obama), and last week was back for Clinton again.
Clinton has already said that pledged delegates are also "fair game". She's going to spend the summer, under the radar, working on all of the delegates. And with her surrogates, like what we learned a couple of weeks ago, Haim Saban trying to "tempt" (bribe) delegates with $1 million.
Unless she actually says "I concede, I quit" (and everything she's said and done, like today with demonstrators showing up from 26 states, indicates she's not going to do that), this is going to floor of the convention.
No, I agree. She has the option to continue the battle after Obama gets a clear majority of the delegates.
But I expect Hillary will abide by the majority, rather than indulge in a long, protracted, ugly delegate fight right up to and during the convention. This is just my opinion, so I may be wrong. We'll have to wait and see.
Petrocelli says:
I hope you're right for the good of the party but everything I've seen tell me otherwise ..
Care to make it interesting($)?
LOL! What are your terms?
Wexler really lit up the room.
rwcole says:
Obama CAN'T get a clear majority unless one counts super delegates and they can change their minds…
There can really be no absolute clarity until the convention, although Dean and others will try to come as close as humanly possible.
The right solution will make it clear that Obama is the presumptive nominee and that he will bear the standard.
In the meantime- Hillary reserves the right to lobby superdelegates behind the scenes in case Obama steps on his dick- but no public controversy.
uh ohhh – its getting ugly……………………..
The temperature's rising . . . listening to C-Span (Scotty is on C-Span2, btw).
its why my laundry's not getting done lol
My laundry is creeping out of the laundry room, begging for a good soak, and laundry woman is attached to her keyboard. Again. Already. Still.
dear sweet mr adie knows it does no good attall attall to fret while the mrs is at the Lake. I suspect he has lots of long-suffering company out there alongside all us pups.
Once in a while, when I tell David what Christy, Emptywheel, perris, elliott, etc. have to say about things, he looks at me in the same strange way parents look at children who have imaginary friends. *g*
SouthernDragon says:
That's funny.
wangdangdoodle says:
Mr. WDD: Are going to be on that thing all day?
Me: Why yes, yes I am.
same conversaton here from mr. siri.
i'm alone in this within this house.
makes him crazy, but i hang with his Laker's games, so he can't say TOO much.
'specially if you attribute it to emptywheel. Cause Christy and Elliott–they sound like real people. But "emptywheel"?
That's funny! "So, David, my new best friend Emptywheel says…"
i luv u for that comment. will show it to himself here when the action wanes. heh.
Tell him you'll be there in a minute, soon's you wrap up your chat with Wangdangdoodle and Southern Dragon. *g*
;->, one of our sonny's bein' a whiz of a techie hisownself, poppa-adie is very much aware of reasons for, and appreciative of, creative monikers in general. I'm one of the few here to be so in-yer-face boldly stoopid in my choice – of name, that is. the mr. is a prize, as are the kidz. I feel spoiled rotten around here. ;->
-um- "here" bein' HERE here at my real brick-&-mortar home (who'm i kiddin' – aluminum schtick)
Fact check needed….. DID Democrats in FL vote to move up the primary?
I heard that that they did….
Yes Florida's State Democrats voted for the bill in which moving up the date was included. Nobody tricked them.
Yes, but it was tied to a paper trail on the voting machines. Republican state gov and governor refused an amendment to move the primary back.
Thank you Loo Hoo. I've been wondering about that and with so much going on, I didn't take time to research exactly what happened.
No CHIT! Bill!
hanging chads my backside!!!!
gotta laundry in but i cant leave just yet
just turn 'em inside out. this is more important, eh?
wow! you must know me…. did that many times lol… and yes this is ahem – more entertaining….. hopefully resolved as well…
we got 2 "boyz" in their 30's. and, besides, their ma never has been thoroughly citified and tamed either. *blush*
jus' tell yerself yer sacrificing for yer country and the future of the whole dang world. TRUE! eh?
duly noted ;o)
I am predicting that Clinton will see reason and quit this race . . . in 2013.
Ding ding ding! Prize goes to the list-maker!
gotta get laundry in
bring it over here. i'm doing loads all day and i'll throw it in.
And Florida Democratic representatives STILL voted for the bill. Nobody fooled them.
Why aren't they asking Marcy??? WHY do they have to ask Chuck and Andrea ANYTHING???
MSM is SOOOOOO early 2000.
I warned ya way up at #69! When will you EVER learn!?! *g*
Suggest u switch to C-Span just to keep shut's left of yer sanity.
i JUST did that one second before I refreshed and read your no. 127.
I'll TRY and pay more attention in the future.
Chuck and Andrea are, I think, not even in the room. they're just in the lobby outside.
Btw, Byron is here. I'm wondering whether I should pick a fight over McClellan all but confirming that Bush authorized Plame's outing.
Oh pleeeeaaasssee do!!!
ooooooooo do please!!
If you do, i'll donate $50 in your name to the local food bank.
Boxturtle (And I'll mail you the receipt for tax purposes)
Well, you have MY blessings, just don't miss anything on the floor. YOU are my eyes and ears here and I been WAITING for this since forever……
AZ Matt says:
Go fer it Marcy!
oh u scamp! Be our guest. Puleeze DO!
Marcy V Byron is a very unfair fight IMO … those in the MSM have all powers of objective thought surgically removed, lest they go off the talking points …
Frank33 says:
EW you are most outstanding. But I hope you would get the video of the Close Encounter of the Neo-con Kind. Then post it on the YouToobz. You should hurry though. Joe LieberLiar is trying to censor all the radical You Toobz.
Here's the letter I got from the Florida Democratic Party on June 17, 2007:
Dear Florida Democrats,
You spoke…
…and your Party listened.
As Chair of your Party, I am proud to officially announce that Florida's Democratic Presidential Preference Primary will be held on January 29, 2008, in accordance with a new state law and the will of Florida's Democratic voters.
Although Democratic National Committee (DNC) rules can penalize states (except for Iowa, Nevada, New Hampshire and South Carolina) that hold 2008 primaries prior to February 5, the Florida Democratic Party's leadership determined that holding a process outside the state-run January 29th election would be detrimental to the voters of this state.
We did not come to this decision on our own.
Over the past few months, the Party discussed the issue with the DNC, Democratic Presidential candidates, Democratic leaders in Florida, and committed Florida Democrats like you. We read your emails and letters, and, in the end, a clear consensus emerged.
Florida Democrats made it clear that a date other than January 29th would potentially disenfranchise voters and inhibit preparations for a winning 2008 campaign – a campaign that will deliver the state's 27 crucial electoral votes on November 4, 2008 to the Democratic Presidential nominee.
Also, we all know the importance of November, but the January 29 elections will affect the people of Florida as well, with important municipal races on the ballot in many cities, and a statewide property tax constitutional amendment that threatens county budgets and local jobs.
As the Florida Democratic Party, we cannot and will not support disenfranchisement that could occur if our primary were held on a date other than January 29, 2008. Our state has seen far too much of this in the past.
Also, we agree with many of you who wrote and e-mailed us with concerns that holding a separate, later election would take our eyes off the prize and adversely affect the progress made toward winning the state for the Democratic nominee in 2008. Like you've said, there's just too much at stake.
Because of these reasons, the Florida Democratic Party has respectfully requested that the DNC not enact penalties on our state or Democratic Presidential candidates by diluting the Florida delegation's voting strength. The Delegation Selection Plan we submitted to the DNC is available online at http://www.fladems.com/delegateplan until July 20 for your comments.
We will keep you posted as the discussions with the DNC continue.
Thank you for your trust.
Karen L. Thurman
Congresswoman Karen L. Thurman
Chair, Florida Democratic Party
Notice the mention of the 27 EVs in Florida? It's been a bigfoot process from the beginning. The EVs have ZERO to do with the DNC process. It's as though Florida thinks that it's OK if THEY move their date…but the precedent of Delaware moving their primary and getting sanctioned is irrelevant.
and UP jumps the apartheid card….. please dont go there
why does this state senator get on my last nerve? *g*
a question…. why weren't these questions brought up before it was decided on the rules…. thats what i dont get….. why now?
I don't think anyone anticipated FL and MI moving their datesat the time. The Dems in FL did not have enough votes to stop the Rethug led legislature from moving the dates. I've always thought the Rethugs did it on purpose to create chaos. The Dems, in their idiocy, figured since they were going to lose the date change fight they might as well get a statewide paper ballot requirement added to the bill. The counties were already under pressure from voters to get rid of the electronic machines so a paper ballot everywhere was in the wind anyhow. It would have taken longer going county by county but it would have gotten done. In the FL Dem party "it's all about me." Karen Thurman is a sorry excuse for a state party chairman.
What you're saying has just been refuted by representatives of the state of Florida.
They've been refuting it since day one. Doesn't change the facts.
Marcy, isn't it common sense and fair that if they redo this "sanction" and seat delegates from FL and MI, then they also need to hold new elections in both of those states???
A re-do should be a total re-do, right?
Saints preserve us. Bottom line question here? If Obama and Clinton agreed to observe the "penalty" phase re MI and FL, how in the name of chad has this become today's firestorm? Rhetorical, I suppose, but even now, I just don't get it. Met a MI activist at Take Back America in March. She said she believed things should be left as they are. Rules is rules, dealie. Except…when they're breakable. This feels so Bushian to me.
oh it IS Bu$hiness all over the place! That's what's so sad. I believe it's a trickle down of this entire illegal misAdministration, and i don't think they even recognize that dynamic.
this female speaking now, don't know her name, in the red, needs to stfu by now!
Obviously, take this as just my opinion, but, you cannot recreate the conditions of that time:
1) The candidates who were in the race at that time OTHER than Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton (Joe Biden, Christopher Dodd, John Edwards, Mike Gravel, and Dennis Kucinich) are no longer in the race. Only Hillary Clinton and Dennis Kucinich kept their names on the Michigan ballot.
2) Michigan was an open primary, John McCain had yet to sew up the nomination on the Republican side, Rush Limbaugh had yet to launch Operation Chaos against the Democrats, but Michigan Democrats, knowing that their election wasn't going to count launched their own Operation Chaos in the Republicans' primary.
3) Florida has 4.2 million registered Democrats. 1.7 million of them voted. Not only were politicians throughout the state telling Floridians that the election was not going to count, so was Senator Clinton.
If we in the other states are to reconsider and overlook Michigan's and Florida's bad faith acts of refusing to abide by what all other states adhered to, it further damages the votes of Democrats in the other states who aren't getting the chance to reconsider their own votes this late in the game – Particularly those who cast votes for one of the other candidates who dropped out. (According to the latest polling, if California voters could vote again, Obama would win.)
Costs too much money. It's being hashed about but the bottom line is the prohibitive cost.
Do it, EW.
FL Dems outvoted by the Republicans means…
The Florida House voted unanimously 118-0.
Florida Senate voted 37-2 to move the date. The 2 nays weren't Dems.
The FL primary had record turnout because it used to be held after the primary was already effectively decided.
brb – gotta put laundry in – grands clamoring for clean clothes lol
eyesonthestreet says:
I am listening to Joyner, why not admit the mistake made at the state leg level, apologize to the voters and accept the consequences, but no, that is not possible, lets trun the whole thing into being victims?
I was disgusted by the AUSMEN guy and his playing "the victim" of the big bad Republicans. Especially since the Florida Democratic party was told in March of 2007 that they could have $ from the DNC to hold a special election of their own if the GOP moved the Florida primary up prior to Feb. 5. They arrogantly chose not to. Now they want to play the victims of the GOP. Hogwash.
Ah Oh…. order up more cheese to go with this varietal of whine…
Velveeta and ripple. This is lame! At BEST
here. have some a this here "cheesy whine". Brand new on the market, all handy in a squirt can. Funny. Tastes as if it's been on the shelf way past its date tho.
EW, pick a fight! Pick a fight!
And tell Andrea Mitchell to thank her husband for the housing bubble. Asshat.
Hell, ask Andrea about Alan's suport for Charles Keating's Lincoln Savings & Loan.
did they bring all their straw men by the one ton Uhaul truck load along with the whine….?
Elliott says:
more Arthenia Joyner please!
shutter….
Florida's State Democrats voted UNANIMOUSLY for the legislation moving the date up.
they also were on the verge of stopping the 2000 recount by theirveryown decree, when the supremes made them superfoolouses.
does ANY state have a decent state lege? just wonderin'…
Yes they did. To them the paper ballot issue was important. In discussions in the legislature the Dems made it plain they would not vote for the date change bill unless a paper ballot requirement was added to it. The Dems were bound and determined to get something out of the legislation. The Rethugs had nothing to lose by adding it to the bill. Paper ballot issues in the counties was not a concern they had. The Dems crowed about the paper ballot while Dem voters got screwed.
We have ALL gotten screwed in one way or other. That's what democracy is about, getting to 50% plus 1 vote, and that's not going to get everybody everything that will make them happy.
The people of Florida got paper ballots for the general election and all future elections – that's the trade they made, and they got it through the lawful process of their democratic republic. Their elected representatives made that deal for them, on their behalf.
So the FL Dems got no bitch. I couldn't agree more. Tell that to Karen Thurman. This wasn't done in a vacuum. The state party thought they could manipulate the national party rules and it's not working out quite like they thought it would.
Sources: DNC Florida Compromise Reached, Michigan Hangs In Balance … Link
Btw, I moved upstairs, though just (AFAIK) on the EW side.
LindaR says:
I think it's better to reward the voters who did their duty and voted despite being told their vote didn't count than to reward the people who gave up and didn't vote.
I used to say don't count any of them — they broke the rules. But the voters didn't break the rules. The party hacks broke the rules.
Now, I say count every vote that was cast.
I can't disagree more.
We're a democratic republic. We've gotten into this mess partially because of citizens who do not vote in their own best interests. After the 2000 election, why are ANY citizens who aren't in the top .02% of wealth voting for Republicans?
If Florida's and Michigan's votes are included, it dilutes all other states' voters votes. They leapfrogged over states in a process determined after all states had the opportunity to weigh in. As a Californian, by the time that my state got to vote, my preferred candidate had already dropped out. Why should Floridians get rewarded for thumbing their noses at a process that I adhered to and hasn't served me as I would have preferred.
I think this is outrageous. I think the analogy of rewarding a child having a tantrum is an accurate one.
Phoenix Woman says:
Linda: The problem is that In MI many people voted "uncommitted" and did NOT want to vote for Hillary. Hillary wants to count those people as having voted for her.
In addition, Michigan's Democratic leadership, such as it is, has been doing this crap forever. (Michigan sucks so badly at primaries that they actually stopped having them for much of the 1980s and 1990s.)
They tried the illegal early primary in 1980 — and Carter and Kennedy, doing what is the standard response for major presidential candidates confronted with primary shenanigans, pulled their names from the ballot. Result: Michigan was the only state Jerry Brown won in the 1980 primary.
They tried it again in 2000 — and again, Gore and Bradley, doing what is the standard response for major presidential candidates confronted with primary shenanigans, pulled their names from the 2000 ballot, which meant that the votes were split largely between "Uncommitted" and Lyndon LaRouche. Rather than be faced with giving LaRouche delegates, the MI Dem leaders quickly organized a caucus, which Gore won, and which allowed their delegates to be seated at the convention that summer.
Carl Levin tried to try it again in 2004, but Terry McAuliffe, then the head of the DNC, made him back down by threatening to yank his delegates. (McAuliffe, ironically, now works for Hillary and so backs whatever she wants at the time. In the fall, before she lost in Iowa, it was that Michigan be punished. Ever since the Iowa loss, it's been to do a 180 on his 2004 position.)
Bottom line, a compromise is needed. Your suggestion isn't a compromise, it's a capitulation to HRC's campaign.
In my opinion, and wouldn't it be terrific (for me) if I ruled the world [ ], the Democratic voters of Florida and Michigan can vote in November, like the rest of us who believe we have been cheated terribly by the gamesmanship of political operatives ruining this democracy.
Starbuck says:
Are we a nation of laws or of people?
Are there any "real" people on that committee or is everyone a party insider? Any "citizens" seated?
hazmaq says:
First, it isn't a coincidence that the same people who now slam the DNC Rules, and Howard Dean in particular, were were the same ones who threw Howard under the bus the day after he finally edged the Democrats into winning an election, and are in fact Hillary Clinton and all of her DLC supporters. Damn those 'activists' has been her yell since Lieberman got busted.
Second, I watched the 2007 DNC Rules meeting last night on c-span.
One item of fact missing in all of Floridas rhetoric today about that Jan. 29 election?
What did Floridians say back then? They weren't worried about being dis-enfranchised back then, because the "nominee will surely seat us at the convention."
But today,they just don't like the nominee.
In today's discussion they also eliminated all mentions of the 'other' item that happened to be on the Jan. 29 ballot besides the Presidential nominees: a property tax reduction that would have cut a whole host of items precious to Democrats. In last years meeting Florida Democrats said their get out the vote efforts were going to be massive "to defeat that Republican bill" even if the candidates votes weren't going to count. They weren't worried about the Presidential votes – the "nominee will fix those.."
Turnout was not that large compared to every other state, but was more for the taxes, not the Presidents Senator Nelson, you lying bastard.!
I hope Clinton and Florida are justly punished for their deceits, again.
"The Doctor is in!"
Howard may not have got to be king, but he — and through him, the rest of us — got to be kingmakers.
He is doing what he needs to be doing right now.
yonodeler says:
I hope the party deciders realize they would not only be setting a precedent by softening the penalty against the two early states, they might even be creating an incentive for a "can't get no respect" state with a favorite son to move itself to the front of the primary line, garnering more attention that way. Maybe no state legislature would ever go that route, but I don't know.
"We have to honor the voters who turned out, and also those voters who didn't turn out in MI." – Dean
I would add that they have to honor the other states that played by the rules. Looking at these three issues simultaneously would allow for a fair agreement; ignoring any of them would result in a bigger clusterf*ck in 2012.
For my money, the best solution would be for both parties (because guess what? The Republicans have had to regularly punish THEIR obstreporous state parties, too) to adopt The American Plan, which while letting the small states go first, rotates them so no one state becomes the decider for all of us. All states have equal power under this plan.
settle down, hotshotz. wave to the cameras.
The political science types can compute within an eyelash what the results would have been if the vote had properly done…The candidates should agree to that number plus or minus a few and be done with this. Obama wins ANYWAY.
Alice Germond, if you want to go down that lane, how many of the 4.2 million Democratic voters owned property?
GO ALICE!
Hillary said to get 19 incremental delegates out of the Florida compromise. They seem to want to do Michigan 50-50. It's probably close enough for government work.
I'm getting the skeleton page with purple print and no graphics…Happens a lot lately to me. Anyone else?
I got zed in jane's liveblog post
Obama has this thing nailed down. The right thing for him to do is to bend over backwards to be fair to Hillary voters- he needs em badly in November. If anyone's gonna get tough with Hillary- let it be Dean.
If this goes through, if there is any compromise, I guarantee you that states like mine (California, biggest state, most populous state) are going to leapfrog, too, come the next election cycle, expecting full well that whatever the penalty, it will be overturned.
No wonder we liberals are perceived as being lax parents, raising "spoiled" children.
If that's the case, wouldn't it be smarter for California to "leapfrog" to the END of the primary calender? I can't recall a time when anyone paid attention to the Puerto Rico, South Dakota and Montana primaries. If California's primary were to be held next week, they would indeed be the king- (queen-?) makers.
It's certainly arguable (which is more powerful, California holding its primary early or late), and Californians could certainly game (or try to) a presidential election with the best of them, but I am approaching this from the perspective of the voter, of all voters in all states, of having a full plank of candidates still in the race by the time we get to weigh in.
California voted relatively early (March 5th), and yet top-tiered candidates had dropped out of the race by then. Early states have a very powerful effect on fundraising and influences later elections. As well, consider those voters who cast absentee ballots weeks earlier for a candidate who dropped out just days before the primary.
We seem to be in a weird kind of state of suspended animation, where we are moving toward doing away with the electoral college (without really debating it), of having one nationwide primary day. If that's true, so be it, but we need to do it intensively (again, IMHO), debate it thoroughly, and then implement it swiftly so that we don't have more primary seasons like this one. This season it was MI and FL, and a penalty of a 50% loss of delegates. Next season, I guarantee you it's going to be CA and TX, and a 25% loss of delegates, or even less. Then it's going to be one gigantic pile-on of states, all jockeying to be first, knowing that there really is no penalty.
This is a comment I made last night.
I'm wondering if anyone on the RBC is going to stand up and say, "Hey look, both of these candidates agreed to the rules in 2007. Regardless of how the Dems in either legislature voted the Dems in those legislatures knew the rules at the time they voted. Do the rules mean anything or do we change them midstream because the states believe they can ignore the rules at their convenience."
If the RBC, and by extension the DNC, doesn't enforce the rules as previously agreed to by all candidates, not only Obama and Clinton, what effect will that have on future campaigns?
I like knowing what the rules of the game are and if I have agreed to them I have a responsibility to abide by them
That's where I am on the issue. One can hope that the whole process is re-evaluated. First order of business after we take power away from the warmongers and greedheads. And I would imagine there is much discussion currently going on within the DNC. Back burner now to be sure but it's there.
How can anyone presume to assign delegates based on "scientific" analysis of how voters would have voted if they had voted with no penalty hanging over their state?
WEXLER KICKS HOWARD ICKIES ASS!!
FWIW: I've long had the feeling that Hillary was asked to continue running. As long as she and Obama are slugging it out, people are being glavanised to register as Democrats and go out and vote. Millions more than would have otherwise if Obama were simply running agaisnt McCain. Obama may have his faults, but his expertise at organizing and GOTV points to him as the one most likely to encourage her. Just IMO. I believe I did hear him say something like "if she wants to run, she should".
Not to ignore the fact that they've campaigned in every state for once. I'm so tired of being ignored by Dems because Texas was a write-off to Reps. Feels good to see them doing this.
And yours is not an opinion that's lonely. There has been some rumored whispers that Obama has all of the superdelegates he needs, that he's controlling the process and dribbling them out a couple a day. I'm not one of those who believe this, but there are many who do and I concede it's possible.
The reason I don't believe it is because I think it's harmful in three ways:
1) It's irritating the hell out of me, and if I'm irritated enough to consider abandoning the Democratic Party forever, people with less patience and less connection to Democratic politics (that would be a goodly number of Obama supporters) are already gone.
2) I think it's dumb, counter-intuitive politics in that it inhibits a unified coalescing of the different groups within the party and a coordinated campaign against Republicans not only at the national level but in state contests.
3) Financially (and is that really what it's all about?) it's a nightmare. The DNC is broke because of this. $26 million dollars a month ago was all it had on hand, and as long as this campaign continues, contributors are spending their money financing a war between two of its own (Clinton and Obama) instead of spending it against Republicans.
4) It's extremely risky for Obama to leave this unsettled for the summer. Not that Clinton's wildest dreams might be realized (another Rev. Wright in Obama's closet, or some scandal), but because he's seen her dirty tactics, he's been blindsided by them, and he's no fool. But while he's no fool……
5) I don't think Obama is that disciplined a politician.
6) Obama and his people claim that he doesn't have them (superdelegates, enough yet to put him over the top), and I take him at his word.
I'm sorry it irritates you. The fractiousness on the threads is pretty nauseating, but look at the benefits for the Dems having a prolonged primary season for a minute:
Because the campaign is going to every state (except FL & MI) Democrats and others who don't like the way the nation is going are feeling empowered…maybe for the first time ever. And they're signing up in droves to vote in the primaries. If they vote in the primaries, they'll most likely vote in the general. This campaign is changing the party demographic as well as enlivening it. Obama has a ground crew in place to assist this. I think that's wonderful. Would he have had to work harder as the sole candidate? I think so. Because it would have caused primaries to be run on local issues in many states…not quite as galvanizing.
McCain has been marginalized in the press due to the "bloody" battle between Clinton and Obama. He rarely makes the news unless it's a scandal and I think that's awesome too. When it's not a scandal, he sounds just like Bush.
The "all guns blazing" Republican smear machine has had to hold fire until the race is decided. Yes, some shots have been fired, but not enough to matter at this point–except to 28%ers. The longer Obama has to build his campaign, the better off he'll be.
I think the pluses far outweigh the minuses on this issue.
Audrey, again, just my opinion: This is not the kind of prolonged primary season that the Dems want, or needed after 8 years of Bush-Cheney. It was the "feel good" of Obama that brought new voters, and not the fractiousness, which there is ample evidence sends voters home. It turns them off, and it turns off the "good" voters (Obama types, such as the independents and undecideds) versus the voters inclined to vote for Clinton who are the Dem party's reliables.
In addition, you can't predict who will turn up for the GE by who voted in the primary, and in this election cycle, there are just too many variables to predict anything.
As far as McCain goes, I think your assessment of his marginalization is extremely generous. The polls certainly don't reflect it. His numbers should be on the negative side, given Bush's numbers and given that it's, well, McCain. Instead, he's got a real chance of winning, which is just the cherry on top of the nuts on top of the whipped cream over the ice cream and hot fudge of this CrAzY election sundae.
I am entertaining my own nightmares as to what may happen by the time Republicans hold their convention, and one of them is that their candidate ultimately is NOT going to be McCain, for whatever reason (sickness, death, etc.) and that we won't be the only one holding a brokered convention.
what is fair reflection?
Fair reflection is the requirement that the delegation reflects the will of those who participate in the presidential selection process. It's part of the DNC rules.
The correct answer to that question–for the Obama people and for the MI primary in general (I agree FL is somewhat different)–is that those who participated in the primary did not believe it was part of the presidential selection procses.
This battle to be "first" is pathetic. It really only matters to the local teevee stations. Those that are first collect millions in campaign ads. Those at the tail end usually get zip. Stupid.
local tv follows zed!?!?
– your friend Ickies got his ass kicked by Wexlers answer, when only 750,000 Democrats voted for Kerry in 2004.
Florida had the lowest percentage of new Democratic voters compared to every other state in the Nation.
MY friend Ickes?
Where did you get the mistaken notion that I'm a supporter of Clinton's?
Southern Dragon, that is the normal process. A new DNC will be seated in January, 2009, after a new President has appointed a new DNC chair, and they will establish a commission to review all the rules, how they worked in 2008, and recommend changes and a process for establishing a new calendar for 2012.
There are a couple of master recommendations out there for calendar changes, one by the Conference of Secretaries of State which is quite interesting, but will require legislation, and the Commission and the DNC will have to decide whether to support it.
In general most Progressives want to see rules which encourage a first round of primaries that are "retail" where candidates have to go cafe to cafe and answer questions from actual voters, and not just from the press. This is most easily done in smaller states where candidates are less dependent on TV. People may not be impressed with the lack of diversity in Iowa and New Hampshire, but they appreciate the voter-candidate contact in those states. It is also the one way a candidate without multi-bucks in the bank can show potential strength and quickly raise funds for a full campaign, as Hart did in 1984, and as Obama did this year. Realizing these values is totally dependent on your rules and calendar.
Thanks for the info. I not junkie enough to know the inner workings of the party. I'm an independent, anyhow.
I'm the treasurer for a candidate trying to unseat Bill Young and Samm Simpson has been doing the cafe-to-cafe bit all along. We don't have a lot of money so Samm spends a lot of her time pressing the flesh with the neighborhood groups, etc. We got a really late start in 06 but ended up with more votes than any other Dem who ever ran against Young.
Never give up.
AngryB says:
The rules committee keep making reference to breaking the prior decisions –
sorry messed up – my point was going to be that the SCOTUS made an exception and selected the POTUS so why can't the rules committee make an exception!
I'm watching this on CSpan, and right now, if there is a God in the heavens, I'd love to see that chyron under Carl Levin that says "uncommitted superdelegate" to turn over before our eyes, to "Senator Clinton superdelegate."
What a tool!
Obama is about to get hosed, me thinks.
Why do you think that, JM?
BTW: I reposted my comment on the new thread. bmaz agreed.
http://firedoglake.com/2008/05…..nt-1470864
Just in case you didn't know.
JMorgan, I don't have a dog in this hunt. I'm neither pro-Obama or pro-Clinton. I'm looking at the big picture and I'm seeing lots of positives. You can highlight the negatives, but for me, I've seen a lot of that and not much of the other, or I wouldn't have brought it up. We can talk about cup half full or half empty all day. Personally, IMO, the risk of losing to McCain would be stronger if Hillary had pulled out after Super Tuesday. As far as media coverage and marginalizing McCain, I'm only going by what I've seen so far and it's been as I painted it. I'm not being generous at all. Just practical from a newsaholic's perspective.
The Rules and Bylaws Committee Meeting, a Primer More from the RBC Meeting


text:
Sponsorship & Donation
Organizing of Events
Vessel ID Application/Renewal
About National Team
Basic HELM
Level 1 Coaching
Home.Clean Sport
Statement of Anti-doping Policy
The Singapore Dragon Boat Association (SDBA) has on 12 August 2022 signed the Collective Policy thereby agreeing to at all times:
Recognise and accept the Anti-Doping Singapore (ADS) as the National Anti-Doping Organisation designated by the Singapore Government as having the responsibility for all doping matters relating to sport in Singapore;
Accept the Anti-Doping Policy of Singapore and the ADS Anti-Doping Rules, both of which are established in accordance with the World Anti-Doping Code, as the basis for the fight against doping in sport;
Adopt the Anti-Doping of Singapore and the ADS Anti-Doping Rules either directly or by reference into our governing documents, constitution and/or rules and regulations, and which shall have binding force and effect on our members and Participants; and
Agree to observe, abide by and implement the provisions of the Anti-Doping Policy of Singapore and the ADS Anti-Doping Rules in respect of our affairs and activities.
The SDBA condemns the use of doping in sport. It recognises the right of all its Athletes to participate in a sport that is free from the misuse of drugs. The SDBA is committed to educate, inform and test, as appropriate, participants competing in dragon boating in Singapore, and representing Singapore, so that it remains a drug-free sport.
It is a requirement of participation in the sport that all its Athletes, Athlete support personnel and other persons under the jurisdiction of the SDBA comply with the Anti-Doping Policy of Singapore and the ADS Anti-Doping Rules set out and published by the SDBA and ADS.
In testing its Athletes, the SDBA is committed to handling the management of results in a confidential and accountable manner and to carry out disciplinary procedures where appropriate by the fair and independent process it has agreed with its members and with ADS, its appointed National Anti-Doping Organisation, for the collection of doping control samples. The disciplinary procedure for a contravention of these rules is published in full in the ADS Anti-Doping Rules.
ANTI-DOPING RULES
The Executive Committee / Management Committee of the Singapore Dragon Boat Association has on 12 Aug 2022 adopted the ADS Anti-Doping Rules as the Singapore Dragon Boat Association's Anti-Doping Rules.
The ADS Anti-Doping Rules published by Anti-Doping Singapore (or its successor), as amended from time to time, shall take immediate effect and be construed as rules of the Singapore Dragon Boat Association.
APPLICATION OF ANTI-DOPING RULES
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redpajama_set_name: RedPajamaCommonCrawl


I love to amuse myself by taking photos of the scenery while Mr C is driving. My new Canon Powershot does a great job of capturing scenery on the move.
And what is at the end of the rainbow? Weird windmills, of course!
The clouds and fields along I-5 were very striking today.
I missed getting photos of all the fruit and nut trees in blossom in the San Jouquin valley because I was driving.
I love the green that the hills in the bay area become in the winter. They are so sculptural.
Here we are headed over the Bay Bridge to San Francisco, in the rain.
Here is the skyline of the city by the bay.
We had a great dinner with the San Francisco contingent of the family. Now we are ensconced in a motel, hoping that the weather will cooperate tomorrow and we can get over the Siskayou's without snow.
Just a quick post this morning to tell you to be sure to run over to Create a Connection to see the nice interview that Deb of Red Shoe Ramblings did with me. She is the guest interviewer this month.
We are on our way to San Francisco to have dinner with Lili, Mark and Jayme, tonight. Then, on to Portland on Wednesday. I hope the rain isn't too bad.
Here is what I accomplished in the desert, besides finishing the binding on Fragments. It is Viola's Garden, a quilt for my great niece. She is Mike and Ann's first grandchild.
I guess I am not so pointless, afterall!!
Yesterday. Mr C and I went back to Joshua Tree National Park to tour the Desert Queen Ranch. It is situated back in the park. It is a long dusty, sandy drive to get there. Tours are give twice a day. It was a working ranch, settled way back in the 1800's. The homesteaders who lived out in the desert, searching for gold, were very resourceful. Ann says that here father did not have much respect for the owners of the ranch because their resourcefulness amounted to criminal activity. Mr Keyes, the second owner, who raised a family there, would raid the abandoned homesteads and take stuff for himself and his family. He dug wells and irrigated a garden. They built dams to water livestock. It was a very interesting story, but the best part was the great stuff that I got to photograph. Some of these will make great screens for printing.
We were very lucky to see big horn sheep, who posed for us.
You can see all of my photos, here.
Tomorrow, we are leaving the desert. I am a little sad as I have really enjoyed the sun and warmth and the hospitality of Mike and Ann. We don't get to see them enough. But, I really miss my studio and M & M.
I am taking a break from the baby quilt to do some blogging. Actually, I took a long break. Mr C and I walked to the downtown area of Twentynine Palms, where we are spending some time in the desert. There is a Marine Base near by so much of the business caters to that market – tatoos, Marine haircuts, etc. It is known as the city of murals. This one is of Ann's parents. Her father was a homesteader and ran the newspaper, movie theaters and skating rink. They still have PO Box #1.
I also love the desert landscaping.
Look at this purple cactus.
From our patio, we can watch jack rabbits, tiny chipmunks, California quail and other birds.
This is the main Casita where Mike and Ann live with their two dogs.
I love all the palm trees and native plants.
Here are some shots of Joshua Tree National Park which is located here. The vista that greets you as you drive in to the park is of another world – looks like you have landed on another planet.
Here is a closeup of the two rocks perched atop this formation.
The park is just crammed full of these rocks and trees and little hikes that you can take back into secret places. We found some petroglyphs on our hike.
If you would like to see more Joshu Tree photos, check out my Flickr set.
Tonight we are going to an art auction benefit for the Boys and Girls Club. We have to get gussied up, desert style! Well, back to my quilting.
Almost forgot to mention that my The Thin Place was accepted in to Sacred Threads 2007!
We went back to Palm Springs yesterday afternoon to see a classic car show, have dinner and attend a comedic slide show of vintage scenes of the Palm Springs area. It was very deja vu for the four of us who came of age in the 50's and 60's. I forgot to take my camera so no photos.
I do want to share some photos of the Frey House which we toured on Sunday. Here is the exterior of the car port which used concrete blocks in a very pleasing design. Frey did not move a single boulder in the building of this house so there is a bump in the pool where the concrete was poured over a boulder.
Albert Frey was one of the pre-eminent modern architects of Palm Springs. He designed the Palm Springs City Hall among other buildings and homes. The second home that he built for himself was constructed on a lot that a more practical person would have passed on. It is high above the desert floor perched amongst boulders. There is a boulder inside the house and there are large windows which show the majesty of the boulder strewn mountainside. When it was built, there would not have been the concern about being energy efficient. The current residents told us that it costs $900 a month in the summer to air condition it.
The house is very minimalist and was not built for entertaining. The built-in sofas look out on the view. The dining area is a bar that also faces the view. The bed is at one end of the house with a beautiful view of the sky, if the curtains are open.
This is the cat staring at my BIL who is seated at the dining bar. My favorite inhabitant of the Frey House was Albert the cat. Isn't he the best. Here he is at the foot of the bed.
The kitchen is just a little galley. The only thing that has been replaced is the refrigerator. These dishes belonged to Frey.
A guest room was added to the house later. The current residents use it as a home office. To live in this home, you have to give up clutter and live with only the most essential items of life.
We did a driving tour of some of the wonderful modern architecture of Palm Springs. We spied several butterfly houses. We found developments that have, over the years, been neglected and our now being revitalized with the new interest in modernism.
The two guys from British Columbia, in the photo above, told us about free drinks and a modernism event at the Orbit In. The motel was purchased and renovated around 2002. The rooms are decorated in wonderful modern furniture.
Ann and I were thrilled to find these mobiles made by a delightful young woman from Portland. We each bought one. I will post a photo of it when I get home and have it hung in the dining room.
I am running down to the main house to download e-mail, but I haven't had much time to check in on my fave bloggers. It is going to rain later today so maybe I will take some time to check out blogs later today.
Mr C is helping his brother with some maintenance on the compound here in Twentynine Palms. Ann was born here. Her father was a homesteader. Mike and Ann bought a casita next door. The family home has several apartment rentals. Now that Ann's mother is in her 90's, they have taken over running the rental business. They are trying to upgrade all of the rentals. Mr C and Mike installed a window earlier this week and now they are about to take on installing a light.
I had not internet access yesterday so today I have finally gotten to my mail and been able to load this post that I wrote yesterday. Today, I have gotten a lot of work done on Viola's quilt. Hopefully, I can post some photos tomorrow. Yesterday, we went out to Joshua Tree National Park and did a short hike. Today, it is very windy so no hiking. We are going to a gallery opening tonight.


If making your own walk in cooler, definitely read up on the cool bot site before spending any money.
I think it will be a while before this SCiO product is really helpful to our wet chemistry needs.
The K meter I have is this one http://www.pikeagri.com/products/plant-testing-meters/potassium-ion-testerIt can work with a really small sample and it is really simple to operate, calibrate and take care of. Only drawback is you probably have to get a whole separate meter for each specific Ion you want to test.
The Mg meter I got is actually a Star sensors 320 meter with a Mg Ion specific sensor (it is a portable pH/ORP/Ion Meter.) It looks as though I could get like 6 different ion specific sensors for the meter but I probably have to run the calibration each time I change sensors so the "money savings" would come with the drawback of having to spend time calibrating before each test and needing to have more of the calibration solutions on hand. Lifespan of the sensors is listed at like 7 months and they cost around $200.
I went with checking out the K and Mg meters because they are a couple of the ones that are really helpful to track and that don't seem to be as easy to test for directly via wet chemistry tests.
How are you liking your Horriba K+ meter so far? Now that you have had it for some time, I'm curious if you would buy it again. I have been wanting a potassium meter of some sort for a LONG time. There aren't many option that are affordable for the backyard AP gardener. Thanks for your input.
Yes, since potassium test kits are reportedly difficult to read accurately, I do like this meter. It is SOOO easy to use. It is really hard for me to judge it's accuracy since the only other way for me to test for K is to send samples off to the lab and that takes several days to get results back. But it does give me an indication about how the K drops off over time after I supplement so it is a useful tool for helping me judge when I need to add more. I just wish they had a good Mg meter like that. I bought a mg meter elsewhere and I can't seem to get an accurate read on the calibration solutions let alone a water sample.
Thanks for taking the time to reply. Are there any plants that grow well in this Florida heat and winter that has a good potassium deficiency indicator?
Also, what is growing well for you this time of year. I can't get any lettuces to grow, tomatoes stay cherry sized, bell peppers stay cherry sized, mints, pineapple, basil, oregano, chives, culantro, melons are doing well for me now. OKRA did amazingly well the past 2 summers. Just planted okra this week and waiting for them to crack the media.
Do you shade your garden at all? I'm considering shading my growbed if it helps with this scorching Florida heat.
Who do you use to do a complete water analysis? I'm considering doing a test on my water to get a baseline of all nutrients. I think the hot Treasure coast heat is whats hurting the most though during the summer.
Sorry I haven't logged in lately.
JR Peters Inc is who I'm sending water samples off to for a complete analysis. $40 a pop which is actually pretty good.
I use 40 % aluminet over most of my system. I need to get it over the rest of the systems since it really helps my lettuce though the summer and I think the peppers would appreciate it.
Basil, Cuban Oregano, Water Chestnuts, Okra and Eggplant seem to be my stars for the summer heat lately.
I do manage to grow lettuce through the summer in rafts under 40% aluminet in summer but I have to harvest a bit small.
I always do summer harvesting as early in the morning as I can.
Tomatoes like a bigger differential between day and night so they are hard here in the dead of summer.
Do you think a duraskrim bed would hold up with a depth of 4' without side supports and with the bottom sitting on the ground?
I see you have gaps on the edges of your rafts in a picture on raftmaster site. Do you have issues with algae in the trough?
A depth of 4'?????? Why on earth would you want to build a bed that deep?
The pressures pushing out on the sides of a bed that deep are going to be very strong, I don't know if the snap clamps would support that kid of depth even with tech screws holding them. The side posts would need to be stronger and deeper and you would need more structure to keep the water from pushing the sides out (and I don't think that has much to do with the liner at all, just the weight of water pushing against anything trying to hold it in. The way I was buiding my raft beds before the raft master kits will not support much more than 14 inches of water depth, the one I have that does get deeper is definitely pushing out.
The raft masters are only 12 inches deep.
And as to the question about the edges on my raft master bed. My rafts are smaller than the normal 48 inches wide (because my original beds were only 48 inches wide overall I had to make my rafts a little smaller.) I just stuck with the same size rafts so that they could be interchangeable from bed to bed. There is a gap at the edge. I haven't had a big problem with algae in that bed so far, at the moment there is duckweed. I suppose if I do find a problem forming, I can add a strip of foam at the edge (I have some 4" strips I used to use as spacers.) Or since my rafts are 16" by 44" I found that I can actually fit 3 of them in that bed if I turn them 90 degrees and that will fill the bed up completely. Around the edges and between rafts there is often a little light hitting water and sometimes string algae starts to form. I haven't found it to be too big a problem as it is easy to grab out when harvesting a section.
I am starting my second system and my plan is to run 2 4' deep DWC doing side by side studies while raising fresh water prawn.
After I sent my question to you I had a design change. I have plastic pallets 56" x 44". I am going to bury about 6" in the ground and have wood framing with cross supports top and bottom and EPDM liner.
Anyway, thank you for your reply.
I was away for a long time so very much belated congrats on the little farmer!
Do you have water chestnuts to sell? I didn't find them on your site.
I sell the water chestnuts locally through the produce market sites.
PM me if you want to arrange a special order since I do not normally ship live plants or fresh produce.
Been struggling with the heat more this year than last year I think. Things seem to be a bit out of balance and I haven't managed to have enough surplus produce to warrant traveling to Orlando for the past few weeks. I think next year I need to plan to take August Off from lettuce production.
I have Eggplant coming out my ears and the Cuban Oregano is a beast. Too bad they don't seem to be very popular items relative to their production this time of year.
Currently changing over at least one part of the system to be Decoupleable.
Was having an argument over on facebook with some one who insists that if the system can be decoupled that it is decoupled no matter if it is running that way at the time or not?????
Decoupled is a State not an ability.
Anyway, main reason I'm doing this change is because the way my systems grew, it actually makes more energy efficiency sense to break up and use multiple pumps. At least for the tower/raft system, I can save on electricity by switching to some new more energy efficient pumps better suited to the specific purposes instead of trying to make a single pump handle fish tanks and towers. The added aeration needs for the mmbr is less than the pump electricity savings.
Biggest challenge I have is that I tend to try to do all this while everything is still running and I slap everything together using materials I have on hand so the PLART can get intersting.


text:
Q: create a scala command line application I was about creating a command line interface for my project that is composed with many applications.
I want to be able to run my applications with something similar to the following :
launch app --op val ... argument ...
I used scopt to write another application launch with accepts a command app and some options and arguments.
It works as expected as far as I execute the launch application using sbt, and this is very annoying for me.
My question is :
Is there any other way to run the application directly from the terminal using something like the one written above.
Edit 1 :
I'll be migrating from sbt to gradle

A: Have a look at the SBT assembly plugin. It automatically creates a JAR file that contains all dependencies. If you define a mainClass, then it creates a runnable JAR that can be run with java -jar <jarfile>.
If you are on Linux (or possibly MacOS), then you can make it prepend a shebang, which makes the resulting JAR file directly executable.

redpajama_set_name: RedPajamaStackExchange


Dapple is a colour effect yarn that comes in a range of beautifully mottled shades. It is the perfect family yarn, and the Sirdar design team have created a collection of patterns with gorgeous designs for all. Dapple has a wonderful acrylic wool blend and the stitch definition it creates is incredible. It is machine washable and will knit to all of Sirdar's double knitting patterns.


text:
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      warn('Кажется, в `children` передан компонент, который не поддерживает свойство `getRootRef`. Мы не можем' + 'получить ссылку на корневой dom-элемент этого компонента');
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};
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redpajama_set_name: RedPajamaGithub


text:
An Archaeological Assessment of the Carolina North Duct Corridor, The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, Orange County, North Carolina
Woodland Pottery Sourcing in the Carolina Sandhills
A Bibliography of Aboriginal Archaeological Plant Food Remains From Eastern North America: 1901-1991
Archaeological Investigations at the Box Plant Site, Henry County, Virginia
Archaeological Investigations at the Stockton Site, Henry County, Virginia
Archaeological Investigations at the Belmont Site, Henry County, Virginia
The Projectile Point Classification Project: A Classification of Projectile Points in Existing Archaeological Collections from North Carolina (Phase II)
Test Excavations of a Stone Foundation at Ayr Mount Historic Site, Hillsborough, North Carolina
Archaeological Testing at 31OR281 and 31OR4d on the Mason Farms and Finley Golf Course Property, The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill


The Pistola Christy Ruffle Sleeve French Terry Tee combines casual styling with a modern silhouette to create an effortlessly chic look. A ribbed crewneck leads to wide ruffle sleeves, allowing for flexibility and comfort. Complete your look with cropped jeans and sneakers.


text:
You are here: Home › PITTSBURGH, Pa.
Tag Archives | PITTSBURGH, Pa.
Press Release: Polovolo Launches the First Sport-Specific Digital Platform for Water Polo Recruiting
By Send2Press Newswire on November 19, 2020 in Business, Press Releases, Product Launches, Software, Sports and Activities, Technology, Water Sports
PITTSBURGH, Pa., Nov. 19, 2020 (SEND2PRESS NEWSWIRE) — High school water polo athletes looking to continue their playing careers in college have a new resource available to showcase their accomplishments and connect with college coaches. Polovolo is a digital platform designed for the unique needs of high school water polo athletes, their parents and the […]
Press Release: Valentis Security plans strategic expansion into Florida
By Send2Press Newswire on October 9, 2020 in Business, New Locations and Growth, Press Releases
PITTSBURGH, Pa., Oct. 9, 2020 (SEND2PRESS NEWSWIRE) — Valentis has commenced plans to expand and initiate operations in the State of Florida. Valentis intends to provide a combination of armed security personnel, consulting, special event security and management, and training throughout the state.
Press Release: The Pittsburgh Post-Gazette Names Steiner Realty, Inc a Winner of the Pittsburgh Top Workplaces Award for the Second Year in a Row
By Send2Press Newswire on September 21, 2020 in Awards and Honors, Business, Press Releases, Real Estate
PITTSBURGH, Pa., Sept. 21, 2020 (SEND2PRESS NEWSWIRE) — Steiner Realty, Inc. announces their designation as one of Pittsburgh's 2020 Top Workplaces. Steiner Realty has been awarded a Top Workplaces 2020 honor by The Pittsburgh Post-Gazette for the second year in a row.
Press Release: Thar Process Expands into India to Focus on Pharmaceutical Purification Market
By Send2Press Newswire on August 17, 2020 in Alliances and Partnerships, Business, Drugs and Pharmaceuticals, Manufacturing, Press Releases
PITTSBURGH, Pa., Aug. 17, 2020 (SEND2PRESS NEWSWIRE) — Thar Process, Inc – an American manufacturer of high-tech supercritical CO2 extraction and purification equipment – is proud to announce the signing of a new exclusive distribution deal with YMC India (a subsidiary of YMC Co. Ltd., JAPAN).
Press Release: Right Hand Technology Group Ranked Among World's Most Elite 501 Managed Service Providers
By Send2Press Newswire on August 13, 2020 in Awards and Honors, Business, Consulting, Press Releases, Technology, VAR and IT Consulting
PITTSBURGH, Pa., Aug. 13, 2020 (SEND2PRESS NEWSWIRE) — Right Hand Technology Group has been named as one of the world's premier managed service providers on the prestigious 2020 annual Channel Futures MSP 501 rankings.
Press Release: Pittsburgh Electrical Insulation (PEI) Acquires Fibertek to Expand Manufacturing Capacity
By Send2Press Newswire on August 4, 2020 in Business, Electronics, Manufacturing, Mergers and Acquisitions, Press Releases, Technology
PITTSBURGH, Pa., Aug. 4, 2020 (SEND2PRESS NEWSWIRE) — Pittsburgh Electrical Insulation, Inc. (PEI) is pleased to announce the acquisition of the Electrical Products Division of Fibertek, Inc. of Franklin, Tenn. Fibertek is a manufacturer of leading-edge specialty fiberglass tapes and high-performance laminates for electrical insulation applications in electric motors, generators, and transformers.
Press Release: New Isolator XXX™ Column Delivers Increased SFC Purification Efficiency
By Send2Press Newswire on June 8, 2020 in Business, Manufacturing, Press Releases, Product Launches
PITTSBURGH, Pa., June 8, 2020 (SEND2PRESS NEWSWIRE) — Thar Process Inc., global leader in the design and manufacture of advanced technologies for the extraction and purification of natural products, announces a new Isolator XXX phase for hemp/cannabis extract purification by supercritical fluid chromatography (SFC).
Press Release: Right Hand Technology Group Becomes First Pittsburgh-based Managed IT and Cybersecurity Service Provider to Earn CompTIA Security Trustmark+
By Send2Press Newswire on March 25, 2020 in Business, Press Releases, Safety and Security Solutions, Technology, VAR and IT Consulting
PITTSBURGH, Pa., March 25, 2020 (SEND2PRESS NEWSWIRE) — Right Hand Technology Group Inc, a Managed IT and Cyber Security Service Provider, announced today it has received the CompTIA Security Trustmark+(tm) from CompTIA, the non-profit association for the world's information technology (IT) industry.
Press Release: Valentis Security welcomes new Business Development Lead in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
By Send2Press Newswire on December 9, 2019 in Advertising and Marketing, Business, Press Releases, Safety and Security Solutions
PITTSBURGH, Pa., Dec. 9, 2019 (SEND2PRESS NEWSWIRE) — Valentis Security is proud to announce and welcome Joseph Ortiz as its new Business Development/Inside Sales Lead. Ortiz will be responsible for business development throughout the markets that Valentis is licensed to operate in.
Press Release: Valentis Security Welcomes New Northwest Regional Manager in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
By Send2Press Newswire on November 20, 2019 in Business, Consulting, Press Releases, Safety and Security Solutions, Technology
PITTSBURGH, Pa., Nov. 20, 2019 (SEND2PRESS NEWSWIRE) — Valentis Security is proud to announce and welcome Dan Ries as its new Northwest Regional Manager. Ries will be responsible managing Valentis operations, personnel, and assisting with business development in northwest Pennsylvania, mid Pennsylvania, and Ohio markets.


The new system at Abu Dhabi International Airport will further enhance security and expedite processing times at the entrance to the security checkpoint.
Air Canada has added the TSA PreCheck indicator to its e-boarding passes, allowing passengers to proceed directly to PreCheck security lanes at US airports.
IndiGo's "Integrated Travel Document" enables passengers to receive their boarding pass along with their itinerary immediately after booking their flights.
Qantas is introducing a "three-click" Auto Check-in service on its domestic network following a successful trial over the last three months.
Jet Airways, the Bureau of Civil Aviation Security of India and Bangalore International Airport Limited have launched a mobile boarding pass pilot.
easyJet has become the first European airline to allow passengers to board their flight at Belfast International Airport using a mobile boarding pass.
Allegiant has developed mobile boarding passes and funded new scanners at 55 airports to ensure as many passengers as possible have access to the service.
FTE attended the AOA Annual Conference in London, where Ryanair CEO Michael O'Leary outlined changes to the airline's check-in policies and charges.
Ryanair CEO Michael O'Leary has announced that the airline will introduce mobile boarding passes by summer 2014.
China Airlines has become the latest airline to introduce mobile boarding passes, which can be used at Osaka Kansai, Hong Kong and Frankfurt airports.


You may use the following form to text the link of Mysore Zoo to a SMS capable phone.
The Mysore Zoo is officially called Sri Chamarajendra Zoological Gardens and is situated near the Mysore Palace. The Mysore Zoo is spread over a vast area of 157 acres and is one the oldest zoological gardens in the country. The Mysore Zoo was established in the year 1892 by Maharaja Sri Chamaraja Wodeyar and was called 'The Palace Zoo'. In 1902, it was opened to the general public.
The Mysore Zoo is maintained by the Zoo Authority of Karnataka. Inside the zoo is a beautiful lake called the Karanji Lake. The catchment of the lake is formed by the Chamunda hills. There is also a natural history museum inside the zoo. It is here that the visitors can study the natural history of aquatic birds and wild animals. There are five green anacondas in the Mysore Zoo, which have been brought from Colombo Zoo. There are also Zebras, Tigers, Baboons, Giraffes, Lions, and White Rhinoceroses inside the Zoo.
This is the only zoo listed in Mysuru. There's also thirty-two attractions listed in this city in other categories. You will find the exact location of Mysore Zoo on the map above. If you need any other information on Mysore Zoo that is not listed here, please call 0821 252 0302 or visit their website.
Find more information on Mysore Zoo bellow.
None of our visitors shared their reviews on Mysore Zoo yet. However, we have collected 5 ratings from external sources on this zoo.


text:
Here's What Happens When Thousands Play Pokemon Together : All Tech Considered For the past week, a social experiment has been going on in the gaming community: a democratically played video game on community site Twitch. A site exec says the result is chaotic but inspiring.
All Tech Considered
Tech, Culture and Connection
Here's What Happens When Thousands Play Pokemon Together
Here's What Happens When Thousands Play Pokemon Together 2:37
< Here's What Happens When Thousands Play Pokemon Together
February 19, 20143:54 PM ET
(SOUNDBITE OF MUSIC)
ROBERT SIEGEL, HOST:
This is Pokemon, a popular Nintendo video game that was first released in 1996. The goal of the game is to collect and train wild creatures called Pokemon and to battle other trainers to become the Pokemon master.
Now, the game is bringing people from all over the world together in a social experiment on a gaming website. Andrew Cunningham, a writer for the technology site Ars Technica, explains it this way.
ANDREW CUNNINGHAM: Basically, somebody has set up a game of Pokemon Red, which is the original Pokemon game from the mid-'90s, and they've configured it so that the chat window can feed that game commands.
SIEGEL: So typing a word - up, down, left, or right - will move the game's character on the screen. It sounds simple, but when many people are typing commands all at once, the character gets confused.
CORNISH: Especially when up to 120,000 people are involved.
CUNNINGHAM: A lot of the time, the game is just saving itself over and over again, or the character gets stuck in the corner and just runs into walls repeatedly.
CORNISH: The game's character may be moving slowly, but Matthew DiPietro says this experiment is extraordinary. He's with Twitch, the website streaming the massive Pokemon game.
MATTHEW DIPIETRO: This is the first time that we've ever seen such a thing where thousands and thousands and thousands of people are controlling a single player in a single turn-based game and making progress through that game. And it's really interesting to watch.
SIEGEL: Since last Friday, when the game started, it's had more than 14 million views and almost half a million total participants. And DiPietro says the Pokemon trainer is only at the halfway mark.
DIPIETRO: But the community is definitely rallying together and getting this character through the game, which, to my mind, is really, really interesting. It means when people come together to do something, you know, always it's chaotic but there's always a goal in mind, which, you know, you're all moving toward at the same time.
SIEGEL: Still, at this rate, it could take weeks before the Pokemon trainer reaches the goal of becoming the Pokemon master.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "GOTTA CATCH 'EM ALL")
CORNISH: This is NPR News.
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text:
The Leeds resident -- a singer-songwriter, producer and member of Suburban Love Junkies, Caddle and Leaderdog -- has been playing professionally since age 16, when he traveled the college circuit in a cover band. He's been riding the roller-coaster of the music business ever since, weathering ups and downs, hits and misses, triumphs and disappointments.
"It is a ride," Watters says. "It takes you into different things."
Post-Greenleaf-Hustle-Debut
Eric-Watters-Music-36
Suburban-Love-Junkies-Celebrate-the-Holidays-at-Workplay
Leaderdog-to-play-City-Stages-Festival
Butcher Babies and Jezebel Dogs at The Nick
Caddle---Mississippi-Doublewide-at-The-Nick