text:
Q: Microsoft SQL Server : select top N of each part number produced on each machine, union, and unpivot I have two machines that each produce the same part numbers. Each machine has three parameters. Data are stored in a row. I want to select the top N results from each of the part numbers produced on each machine based on descending time (i.e. the latest 5 results of parts 1, 2, 3 and 4 produced on machines 1 and 2), unpivot the results and display them with a new row number for each.  Environment is Microsoft SQL Server 2016.
Sample data:
id  PartNumber  WorkCenter  UniquePartID    Measurement1    Measurement2 Measurement3 transactionDT
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1   1           1           78              24.2            20.6         24.6         2018-08-10 11:03:34.000
2   1           2           135             24.3            20.7         24.7         2018-08-10 11:03:28.000
3   2           2           45              58.7            49.9         59.6         2018-08-09 11:03:22.000
4   2           2           32              58.6            49.8         59.5         2018-08-09 11:03:16.000
5   3           1           65              42.2            35.9         42.8         2018-08-07 11:03:10.000
6   3           2           96              42.2            35.9         42.8         2018-08-07 11:03:04.000
7   4           1           12             108.2            92          109.8         2018-08-06 11:02:57.000
8   4           2           54             108.4            92.1        110.2         2018-08-06 11:02:50.000
9   1           1           77              24.2            20.6         24.6         2018-08-05 11:02:43.000
10  1           1           76              24.2            20.6         24.6         2018-08-05 11:02:36.000

First few rows of desired result:
ROWID   PARTNUMBER  TIMESTAMP               WORKCENTER  UniquePartID    PARAMETER   MEASUREMENT
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1       1           2018-08-10 11:03:34.000 1            78       Measurement 1     24.2
2       1           2018-08-10 11:03:34.000 1            78       Measurement 2     20.6
3       1           2018-08-10 11:03:34.000 1            78       Measurement 3     24.6
4       1           2018-08-10 11:03:28.000 2           135       Measurement 1     24.3
5       1           2018-08-05 11:02:43.000 2           135       Measurement 2     20.7
6       1           2018-08-05 11:02:36.000 2           135       Measurement 3     24.7

T-SQL statement used:
SELECT
    ROW_NUMBER() OVER (ORDER BY TIMESTAMP DESC) ROWID,
    *
FROM
    (SELECT DISTINCT TOP 10
         PartNumber AS PARTNUMBER, transactionDT AS TIMESTAMP,
         CASE
            WHEN WorkCenter = 1 THEN 'WC 1'
            WHEN WorkCenter = 2 THEN 'WC 2'
         END AS WORKCENTER,
         UniquePartID, 'Measurement1' AS PARAMETER,
         measurement1 AS MEASUREMENT
     FROM
         parts.dbo.data

     UNION

     SELECT DISTCINT TOP 10
         PartNumber AS PARTNUMBER, transactionDT AS TIMESTAMP,
         CASE
            WHEN WorkCenter = 1 THEN 'WC 1'
            WHEN WorkCenter = 2 THEN 'WC 2'
         END AS WORKCENTER,
         UniquePartID, 'Measurement2' AS PARAMETER,
         measurement2 AS MEASUREMENT
     FROM
         parts.dbo.data

     UNION

     SELECT DISTCINT TOP 10
         PartNumber AS PARTNUMBER, transactionDT AS TIMESTAMP,
         CASE
            WHEN WorkCenter = 1 THEN 'WC 1'
            WHEN WorkCenter = 2 THEN 'WC 2'
         END AS WORKCENTER,
         UniquePartID, 'Measurement3' AS PARAMETER,
         measurement3 AS MEASUREMENT
     FROM
         parts.dbo.data) a
ORDER BY
    TIMESTAMP DESC, PARAMETER ASC

Thanks!
******UPDATED t-SQL code
SELECT ROW_NUMBER() OVER(PARTITION BY PARTNUMBER, WORKCENTER ORDER BY
    TIMESTAMP DESC) ROWID, *
FROM (

SELECT PartNumber AS PARTNUMBER, transactionDT AS TIMESTAMP, CASE
  WHEN WorkCenter = 1 THEN 'Work Center 1' WHEN WorkCenter = 2 THEN 'Work
    Center 2' END AS WORKCENTER, UniquePartID, 'Measurement1' AS PARAMETER,
                     Measurement1 AS MEASUREMENT, Measurement1Min AS
    SPEC_MIN, Measurement1Nominal AS NOMINAL, Measurement1Max AS SPEC_MAX
FROM            parts.dbo.data

UNION ALL

SELECT PartNumber AS PARTNUMBER, transactionDT AS TIMESTAMP, CASE
    WHEN WorkCenter = 1 THEN 'Work Center 1' WHEN WorkCenter = 2 THEN 'Work
    Center 2' END AS WORKCENTER, UniquePartID, 'Measurement2' AS PARAMETER,
                     Measurement2 AS MEASUREMENT, Measurement2Min AS
    SPEC_MIN, Measurement2Nominal AS NOMINAL, Measurement2Max AS SPEC_MAX
FROM            parts.dbo.data

UNION ALL

SELECT PartNumber AS PARTNUMBER, transactionDT AS TIMESTAMP, CASE WHEN
    WorkCenter = 1 THEN 'Work Center 1' WHEN WorkCenter = 2 THEN 'Work
    Center 2' END AS WORKCENTER, UniquePartID, 'Measurement3' AS PARAMETER,
                     Measurement3 AS MEASUREMENT, Measurement3Min AS
    SPEC_MIN, Measurement3Nominal AS NOMINAL, Measurement3Max AS SPEC_MAX
FROM            parts.dbo.data) a
order by TIMESTAMP DESC, PARAMETER ASC

Challenge - this returns 3 rows for every record...I want 3 rows for the top N of every partnumber / work center combination.

A: The problem with your statement is that you use TOP 10 in every part of the UNION query without sorting.
I guess that you want something like this:
SELECT ROW_NUMBER() OVER (ORDER BY transactionDT DESC, MEASUREMENT) ROWID,
  PartNumber AS PARTNUMBER, transactionDT AS TIMESTAMP, WorkCenter AS WORKCENTER,
  UniquePartID, PARAMETER, MEASUREMENT
FROM
   (SELECT TOP (10) PartNumber, WorkCenter, UniquePartID,
      transactionDT, Measurement1, Measurement2, Measurement3
    FROM parts.dbo.data
    ORDER BY transactionDT DESC) AS pvt
UNPIVOT (MEASUREMENT FOR PARAMETER IN (Measurement1, Measurement2, Measurement3)) AS upvt;

UPDATED...
After the requirements have been extended to 4 instead of 1 column, I can't seem to find a different way to solve this than using the UNION ALL approach. As with the TOP N in my answer to the original question, the numbering with ROW_NUMBER() in my solution to the extended requirements has to be done "early", in this case this means that it has to take place already in each single part of the UNION query. The TOP 10 will be found using a WHERE clause in the end:
WITH
  NumberedRecords (ROWID, PARTNUMBER, TIMESTAMP, WORKCENTER, UniquePartID, PARAMETER, MEASUREMENT, SPEC_MIN, NOMINAL, SPEC_MAX) AS (

    SELECT
      ROW_NUMBER() OVER(PARTITION BY PartNumber, WorkCenter ORDER BY transactionDT DESC)
      , PartNumber, transactionDT, 'Work Center ' + CAST(WorkCenter AS varchar(10)), UniquePartID
      , 'Measurement 1', Measurement1, Measurement1Min, Measurement1Nominal, Measurement1Max
    FROM parts.dbo.data

    UNION ALL

    SELECT
      ROW_NUMBER() OVER(PARTITION BY PartNumber, WorkCenter ORDER BY transactionDT DESC)
      , PartNumber, transactionDT, 'Work Center ' + CAST(WorkCenter AS varchar(10)), UniquePartID
      , 'Measurement 2', Measurement2, Measurement2Min, Measurement2Nominal, Measurement2Max
    FROM parts.dbo.data

    UNION ALL

    SELECT
      ROW_NUMBER() OVER(PARTITION BY PartNumber, WorkCenter ORDER BY transactionDT DESC)
      , PartNumber, transactionDT, 'Work Center ' + CAST(WorkCenter AS varchar(10)), UniquePartID
      , 'Measurement 3', Measurement3, Measurement3Min, Measurement3Nominal, Measurement3Max
    FROM parts.dbo.data

  )
SELECT * FROM NumberedRecords WHERE ROWID <= 10;

The simple way:
Now knowing that it will be a query with UNION, there is a simple solution with just a small change to what you already did that will work for both your original and your updated query:
In your OVER clause for the ROW_NUMBER function in the outer query, add the field PARAMETER for partitioning.
And of course, use a WHERE clause in the end:
WHERE ROWID <= 10

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text:
COMETS CRUMBLE SOUTH BURLINGTON'S BRICK WALL
Posted on January 9, 2020 January 10, 2020 by County Courier
Photos and story by Ben Kaufmann
County Courier
ST. ALBANS – It was no easy task trying to find the back of the Lyssa Tan's net on Wednesday, but even a 60-save performance from the South Burlington goaltender couldn't hold off BFA-St. Albans as the Comets pulled away for a 6-0 win.
A fifth straight victory for BFA (5-2) was well earned and not always the runaway the final score indicates, though St. Albans did hold South Burlington (1-3) to a single shot on goal. The Comets led 1-0 after the first period and that same scoreline held for some time before the hosts scored twice in the final five minutes of the second.
"She played very well, it was a lot of shots she saw and she made the first saves," Comet coach Luke Cioffi said of Tan. "I think she got tired, the other team got tired, we kind of wore them down."
In the end, it was a number of performances from BFA which decided the game: Sophomores Calla Bourdeau and Sophie Zemianek each scored twice, Jodie Gratton tallied a goal and two assists, the defensive pairing of Emma Lovelette and Rowan Howrigan proved a formidable two-way threat, and nearly everyone who skated across center ice for BFA was successful in creating shots for Tan to stop in new and exciting ways.
"As a team, we're happy with where we're at in terms of who's doing what and we're moving in the right direction," Cioffi said. "I think we're comfortable. We feel like we're getting better, we're starting to gel, we're seeing a lot more plays develop."
BFA did jump ahead early when Gratton took a nice centering pass from Meghan Connor and lifted a high shot past Tan for a quick 1-0 Comet lead just over three minutes past the opening whistle. Lovelette collected the second assist on that goal.
Good chances over the next 20 minutes from Gratton, Connor, Bourdeau, Lovelette, Carolyn Perry, Chiara Skeels, Kami O'Brien, Zemianek, Maddie Montagne, Morgan Shoram and most everyone else in a yellow jersey were turned away by Tan.
As the final five minutes got underway in the second period, Shoram assisted two goals from Bourdeau exactly three minutes apart to help BFA pull away. The first goal, by all reasonable expectations, should have been a Shoram goal but her shot was somehow blocked by Tan. Bourdeau was in the right spot to knock in the rebound for a 2-0 lead. The second goal of the period came when Shoram intentionally passed to Bourdeau in the slot and though her shot appeared to have been stopped for a moment, it slipped through to give BFA a 3-0 lead through the second.
Though South Burlington didn't threaten much, there were a couple of scares while the game was still relatively close. With the score still 1-0 early in the second, South Burlington had a breakaway thanks to some fortunate timing around the end of a penalty. Howrigan raced back and ended the scare with a poke-check. In the waning seconds of the second with her team now up by three, Howrigan again prevented the Wolves from capitalizing on a breakaway chance.
Cioffi recognized the strong play from Howrigan on Wednesday, also noting that the defensive contributions come from the entire roster when holding an opponent to a single shot.
"Rowan played very well. Defensively she just jumps out, she's aggressive to take away the puck and skate into the body and take that away," Cioffi said.
"I thought our forwards, for the most part, did a good job of back-checking and providing support for our D when they're coming down hard. Last couple of games we've had that where everybody kind of chips in."
After Tan's 25-save second period, BFA was able to take better advantage of South Burlington in the third. Gratton poked a loose puck to Zemianek for an easy finish and a 4-0 lead during a four-on-four stretch with just under nine minutes to go in the final frame. Hailey Savage set up a rocket slapshot from Abbie Casey less than two minutes later and Perry deflected that shot in for a 5-0 BFA lead.
And after failing as a team in nearly 60 attempts to get a first-shot cleanly past Tan, Zemianek's one-timer with 1:37 left in the game may just have gone through any padding of Tan's if she'd been able to get it in front of the puck. That score was set up by Skeels and Gratton and gave BFA its final, 6-0 scoreline.
Now winners of five straight — the last two by a combined 18-0 — BFA is settling into what's been fairly typical through the first part of most of its first 20 seasons. The Comets' start with the toughest challenges they can find in the region, this year losing to Hingham (MA) and Potsdam (NY) and edging Hanover (NH), before settling into league play.
Cioffi knows his team is in for tougher tests than its most recent games. Middlebury (4-1) has had an impressive start to the season and comes to visit Saturday. More contests with an Essex team BFA beat 2-0 in the Hanover tournament loom, as does currently undefeated Burlington-Colchester (6-0).
"The tough schedule kind of allows us to see where everybody is right off and now we can kind of take a breath a little bit and see what's going on," Cioffi said.
Comet goalie Madeline Hungerford will expect to be a bit more challenged in the pursuit of her fourth straight shutout when the puck drops on Middlebury and BFA at 5:30 on Saturday at Collins Perley.

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Seriously obsessed with Christmas jammies & wanted to show you my top 7 sets! All PJs are true to size and I am wear a S in all. I also saved my try-on session to my holiday IG highlight & added it here for you to rewatch!
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Knotts Brings 20+ Years of Speech Therapy Experience to George Regional Health System
Speech Therapist Luci Knotts recently joined the staff at Southeast Rehab. "As a child, I could not say the 'r' sound and was teased a lot—hence the reason I chose this profession," Knotts laughs. A graduate of the University of South Alabama, she earned her Master's Degree in 1995. Her extensive 20-year career includes working with…
George Regional Health System Hosts 2nd Annual Pink Pumpkin Patch & 5K Fun Run
On Saturday, October 5, George Regional Hospital's campus will be filled with pink pumpkins in support of Breast Cancer Awareness. The 2nd annual event begins at 8:30 a.m. on the hospital's campus with a 5k Fun Walk/Run through the city of Lucedale. The "Pink Pumpkin Patch" will be open to the community. Children can have their…
Matt Howell Joins Physical Therapy Team at Southeast Rehab
Lucedale native and recent University of South Alabama graduate Matt Howell is jumping right into his role as a Physical Therapist. "I'm really enjoying the outpatient clinic setting the most here at Southeast Rehab but I'm looking forward to home health visits and getting out in the community," Howell explains. Home health is a new service…
George Regional Health System Hosts Monthly CPR Classes in 2015
Would you know what to do in a cardiac or breathing emergency? Beginning in January, George Regional Health System nursing staff will hold monthly CPR classes. Classes will be held the last Thursday of each month from 9:00 a.m. to 1:00 p.m. in the Skills Lab (15 London Street). Classes are limited to six students and…
Faye McNeill Named Volunteer of the Year
Long-time volunteer and President of the Auxiliary at George Regional Hospital, Ms. Faye McNeill was named Volunteer of the Year by the Mississippi Hospital Association. Since 1998, when the Auxiliary was first formed, Faye has led the volunteers who selflessly give their time and energy five days a week. "The Auxiliary was first formed by Linda…
George Regional Health & Rehab Receives License for Additional Patient Beds
In the fall of 2011, George Regional Health & Rehab opened with room for 19 patients and admitted its first resident. With the recent approval of an extended license, the long and short term nursing care center can now accommodate 41 residents. "As this county continues to grow, it's our mission to serve our community's growing…
George Regional Hospital Candy Stripers Award $700 Scholarship
The Candy Striper at George Regional Hospital worked diligently all year to raise money for their first ever scholarship. Scholarship recipient, Kadejah Todd, is a second year nursing student at Mississippi Gulf Coast Community College, George County Campus. "The Candy Striper raise money through bake sales and other fundraisers throughout the year," explains Ann Green, R.N.,…
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Patients Can Now View Their Medical Record Online George Regional Health System now offers patients the option to access select portions of their medical records online, through the hospital's website www.georgeregional.com. The patient health portal allows patients to more conveniently view, manage, transmit and download certain medical records such as lab test results, immunizations, procedures, allergies,…
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After driving by the beautiful new structure for the last few months, the community now has the opportunity to see what's inside. George Regional Health & Rehab will hold an Open House on Sunday, June 1st from 1:00 to 3:00 p.m. Everyone is invited and cake, coffee and punch will be served. Adding 21,000 square feet,…
Hats off to George Regional Hospital
Emergency Room Awarded $10,000 Grant from Coastal Trauma Region Following strict state requirements and providing emergency care quickly and thoroughly, the George Regional Hospital emergency department was awarded a $10,000 grant from the Coastal Trauma Region. When a critically injured patient is brought to the ER, establishing an open airway (intubate) is the primary goal. "It…


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text:
Edmund Munroe Smith1
b. December 8, 1854, d. April 13, 1926
Father: Horatio Southgate Smith M.D.1 b. July 28, 1820, d. April 27, 1876
Mother: Susan Dwight Munroe1 b. between 1816 and 1817
Edmund Munroe Smith was born on December 8, 1854 in Brooklyn, Kings County, New York.1
He was the son of Horatio Southgate Smith M.D. and Susan Dwight Munroe.1
Edmund married Emma Gertrude Huidekoper on April 17, 1890 in Philadelphia, Philadelphia County, Pennsylvania.1
Edmund died on April 13, 1926 in 145 East 45th Street, Manhattan, New York County, New York, at age 71 of pneumonia.2
Family: Emma Gertrude Huidekoper b. October 12, 1865
Gertrude Munroe Smith+3 b. June 6, 1891
Leonard B. Chapman, Monograph on the Southgate Family of Scarborough, Maine: Their Ancestors and Descendants, , at https://books.google.com/books?id=SEtVAAAAMAAJ . Portland, Maine: Hubbard W.Bryant, (1907) , p. 52.
The Standard Union, Brooklyn, New York, 14 Apr 1926, Wed • Page 4.
1862 Class Report Harvard University Fiftieth Anniversary, , at https://books.google.com/books?id=Rt8kAAAAYAAJ . Cambridge: (1912) , p. 43.
Edward Smith1
b. November 25, 1727, d. January 15, 1815
Father: Timothy Smith1 b. June 1, 1702, d. June 30, 1792
Mother: Esther Webster1 b. February 25, 1708, d. March 9, 1793
Edward Smith was born on November 25, 1727 in East Hartford, Connecticut.1
He was the son of Timothy Smith and Esther Webster.1
Edward married Ruth Porter of East Hartford.2
Edward died on January 15, 1815 at age 87. He was a carpenter and owned a sawmill on State Brook.1
Family: Ruth Porter of East Hartford b. August 22, 1728, d. October 5, 1807
Ruth Smith2 b. January 15, 1750, d. February 19, 1750
Ruth Smith2 b. May 6, 1751
Mary Smith2 b. February 19, 1753
Esther Smith2 b. August 15, 1755
Russell Smith2 b. February 11, 1758, d. August 25, 1777
Rachel Smith2 b. May 17, 1760, d. May 4, 1837
Mabel Smith2 b. March 22, 1764, d. June 20, 1844
John Smith2 b. February 24, 1766
Col. Edward Smith+2 b. December 9, 1769, d. February 28, 1851
Families of Ancient Wethersfield, Connecticut
https://books.google.com/books?id=f_Aza7zZrTIC&pg=PA652
Father: Dea. Samuel Smith1 b. January, 1658, d. August 28, 1707
Mother: Mary Smith1 b. perhaps 1661
Edward Smith was born on November 17, 1704 in Hadley, Massachusetts.1
He was the son of Dea. Samuel Smith and Mary Smith.1
Edward died young.2
The Foote Family: Or, The Descendants of Nathaniel Foote, One of the First ...
https://books.google.com/books?id=3aFMAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA277
Col. Edward Smith1
b. December 9, 1769, d. February 28, 1851
Father: Edward Smith1 b. November 25, 1727, d. January 15, 1815
Mother: Ruth Porter of East Hartford1 b. August 22, 1728, d. October 5, 1807
Col. Edward Smith was born on December 9, 1769.1
He was the son of Edward Smith and Ruth Porter of East Hartford.1
Edward married Hannah Chandler.1
Edward died on February 28, 1851 at age 81.1
Family: Hannah Chandler b. perhaps 1771, d. April 20, 1850
Asahel Smith1 b. June 20, 1792
Noah Smith1 b. March 8, 1794
Col. Ashbel Smith1 b. August 28, 1795
Horace Smith1 b. May 5, 1797, d. October 18, 1797
Polly Smith1 b. September 9, 1798, d. August 31, 1800
Cyrus Porter Smith1 b. April, 1800
Russell Smith1 b. July 14, 1802
Dr. Chandler Smith1 b. February 16, 1805
Irene Smith1 b. April 11, 1807
Hannah Smith1 b. September 10, 1810
Lorenzo Smith1 b. May 2, 1813, d. September 28, 1815
Eleanor Smith of Connecticut1
b. July 23, 1760, d. August 3, 1824
Eleanor Smith of Connecticut was born on July 23, 1760.1
Eleanor married Capt. Paul Sears, son of Daniel Sears and Mercy Snow, on October 25, 1782, probably in Buckland, Massachusetts.1
Eleanor died on August 3, 1824 in Ashfield, Massachusetts, at age 64.1
Family: Capt. Paul Sears b. June 2, 1750, d. September 3, 1808
Lydia Sears1 b. July 29, 1783
Jerusha Sears1 b. October 7, 1784, d. April, 1864
Lemuel Sears1 b. December 30, 1785
Fanny Sears1 b. August 27, 1787, d. April 12, 1790
Achsah Sears1 b. April 11, 1789
Nathan Sears M.D.1 b. February 14, 1791, d. February 1, 1848
Fanny Sears1 b. October 21, 1793
Clarissa Sears1 b. November 26, 1795
Betsy Sears1 b. June 20, 1798
Paul Sears2 b. April 4, 1800
Henry Sears2 b. May 25, 1802
Priscilla Sears2 b. December 31, 1805
Samuel Pearce May, The Descendants of Richard Sares (Sears) of Yarmouth, Mass., 1638-1888, , at https://books.google.com/books?id=g-4UAAAAYAAJ . Albany, N. Y.: Joel Munsell's Sons, (1890) , p. 141.
Eleazer Smith1
b. September 25, 1694, d. October 3, 1721
Father: John Smith1 b. December 18, 1661, d. April 16, 1727
Mother: Joanna Kellogg1 b. December 8, 1664
Reference: 6406gbf
Eleazer Smith was born on September 25, 1694 in Hadley, Massachusetts.2
He was the son of John Smith and Joanna Kellogg.1
Eleazer died on October 3, 1721 in Hadley, Massachusetts, at age 27.3
He was buried in Old Hadley Cemetery, Hadley, Massachusetts.3
Find a Grave, at http://www.findagrave.com/, Created by: the moo
Record added: May 07, 2006
Elijah Smith1
Father: Gideon Smith1 b. March 19, 1736, d. April 23, 1813
Mother: Rebecca Smith1 b. May 16, 1731, d. October 16, 1829
Elijah Smith was born perhaps 1768.
He was the son of Gideon Smith and Rebecca Smith.1
Eliphelet Thomas Smith
b. October 15, 1870, d. March 21, 1942
Eliphelet Thomas Smith was born on October 15, 1870 in Canada.
Eliphelet married Lucinda M. Colby, daughter of Leonard Colby and Rosella B. Phelps, on December 31, 1906 in Manchester, Hillsborough County, New Hampshire.
Eliphelet died on March 21, 1942 in Bow, Merrimack County, New Hampshire, at age 71.
Family: Lucinda M. Colby b. January 18, 1878, d. November 24, 1958
Irene Smith+ b. October 17, 1907, d. January 27, 1994
Elisabeth Smith1
b. December 30, 1750, d. February 27, 1846
Elisabeth Smith was born on December 30, 1750 in Newbury, Massachusetts, daughter of Capt. James and Elisabieth Smith, Jr.1,2
Elisabeth married Deacon Samuel Tenney, son of Deacon Jonathan Tenney and Lydia Hale, on January 17, 1771 in Newbury, Massachusetts, by Rev. William Johnson.3
Elisabeth died on February 27, 1846 at age 95 of cancer.3
Family: Deacon Samuel Tenney b. November 28, 1748, d. May 29, 1821
Tabitha Tenney3 b. April 25, 1771
Elizabeth Tenney3 b. March 29, 1773
[male] Tenney3 b. perhaps 1774, d. January 16, 1775
Sarah Tenney4 b. August 29, 1776, d. August 26, 1832
Nancy Tenney4 b. April 25, 1779
Mary or Molly Tenney5 b. June 10, 1781
Samuel Tenney6 b. August 10, 1783, d. June 15, 1788
Joanna Tenney4 b. July 28, 1786
Lydia Tenney4 b. May 29, 1789
Samuel Tenney4 b. July 31, 1791
Sophia Cogwell Tenney4 b. April 28, 1797
Mass. Newbury, Vital records of Newbury, Massachusetts, to the end of the year 1849 (Salem, Mass.: The Essex Institute, 1911), Vol. 1, p. 478.
Martha Jane Tenney, The Tenney Family, Or, the Descendants of Thomas Tenney, of Rowley, Massachusetts, 1638-1890, , at http://books.google.com/books?id=IT1WAAAAMAAJ . Boston, Mass.: American Printing and Engraving, (1891) , pp. 72-3 lists birth as Dec. 31, 1751.
Martha Jane Tenney, The Tenney Family, Or, the Descendants of Thomas Tenney, of Rowley, Massachusetts, 1638-1890, , at http://books.google.com/books?id=IT1WAAAAMAAJ . Boston, Mass.: American Printing and Engraving, (1891) , pp. 72-3.
Mass. Newbury, Vital records of Newbury, Massachusetts, to the end of the year 1849, Vol. 1, p. 508.
Mass. Newbury, Vital records of Newbury, Massachusetts, to the end of the year 1849, Vol. 1, pp. 506, 508.
Father: Timothy Smith1 b. August 24, 1731
Mother: Lydia Colby1 b. June 26, 1735
Elisabeth Smith was baptized on September 1, 1771 in Haverhill, Massachusetts.1
She was the daughter of Timothy Smith and Lydia Colby.1
Vital Records of Haverhill Massachusetts to the end of the year 1849, Topsfield, Mass: Topsfield Historical Society, (1911) , Vol. 1, p. 278.
Elisha Smith1
Father: Ichabod Smith1 b. April 11, 1675, d. September 6, 1746
Mother: Elizabeth Cook1 b. 1677, d. October 10, 1751
Elisha Smith was born on January 23, 1721.1
He was the son of Ichabod Smith and Elizabeth Cook.1
Father: Jonathan Smith1 b. 1663, d. about 1737
Mother: Abigail Kellogg1 b. October 9, 1671
Elisha Smith was born on July 10, 1705.1
He was the son of Jonathan Smith and Abigail Kellogg.1
b. June 4, 1719
Father: Elisha Smith of Weston1 b. January 11, 1691/92
Mother: Patience Brown1 b. June 27, 1697
Reference: 2004ecc
Elisha Smith was born on June 4, 1719.1
He was the son of Elisha Smith of Weston and Patience Brown.1
Almira Larkin White, Ancestry of John Barber White and his descendants, , at http://books.google.com/books?id=hY9bAAAAMAAJ . Haverhill, Mass.: Press of C.H. Webster, (1913) , p. 170-171.
Elisha Smith of Weston1
Elisha Smith of Weston was born on January 11, 1691/92 in Watertown, Massachusetts, son of Jonathan and Jane (Peabody) Smith.3,2
Elisha married Patience Brown, daughter of Capt. Abraham Brown and Mary Hyde, on March 25, 1714 in Watertown, Massachusetts.4
Elisha married on August 12, 1741 Sarah Melvin, of Concord, as his second wife.2
Family: Patience Brown b. June 27, 1697
Jonathan Smith5 b. January 23, 1714/15, d. before 1747
Patience Smith2 b. February 23, 1717
Elisha Smith2 b. June 4, 1719
Eunice Smith+2 b. about 1725
Isaac Smith2 b. perhaps 1727
Joshua Smith2 b. perhaps 1730
Abraham Smith2 b. May 30, 1732
Prudence Smith2 b. October 28, 1733
Abraham Smith2 b. May 9, 1736
Robert Smith2 b. July 9, 1737
Phineas Smith2 b. December 17, 1738
Henry Bond, Family Memorials: Genealogies of the Families and Descendants of the Early Settlers of Watertown, Massachusetts, , at https://books.google.com/books?id=3Yc-AAAAYAAJ . Boston: Little, Brown & Co., (1855) , Vol. 1, p. 434.
Town and City Clerks of Massachusetts, Massachusetts Vital and Town Records, Provo, UT: Holbrook Research Institute (Jay and Delene Holbrook),.
Eliza I Smith1
Eliza I Smith was born in 1849.1
Eliza married Daniel Silliman Neal, son of Samuel Clements Neal and Asenath L. Mathews, on January 13, 1874 as his first wife.2
Eliza died in 1877.1
She was buried in LaSalle Cemetery, Rome, Peoria County, Illinois.1
Family: Daniel Silliman Neal b. December 3, 1848, d. June 18, 1930
Abbie Hope Neal+3 b. February 1, 1875, d. November 27, 1972
Minnie Neal4 b. January 21, 1877, d. July 17, 1877
Find a Grave, at http://www.findagrave.com/, Maintained by: One Foot In The Grave
Originally Created by: John Melton
Find a Grave at http://www.findagrave.com/, Maintained by: One Foot In The Grave
Find a Grave at http://www.findagrave.com/, Created by: Debra
Record added: Dec 07, 2011
Elizabeth Smith1
b. 1626/27, d. after 1701
Elizabeth Smith was born in 1626/27, daughter of Lieut. Samuel and Elizabeth Smith of Wethersfield.2
Elizabeth married Nathaniel Foote, son of Nathaniel Foote and Elizabeth Deming, in 1646.3
Elizabeth married after 1655 William Gull as her second husband. He died 1701.4
Elizabeth died after 1701.4
Family: Nathaniel Foote b. March 5, 1619/20, d. 1655
Nathaniel Foote+ b. January 10, 1648 or January 14, 1648, d. January 12, 1703
Samuel Foote+5 b. May 1, 1649, d. September 7, 1689
Daniel Foote+6 b. 1652
Elizabeth Foote+ b. 1654, d. September 16, 1696
William Richard Cutter, Genealogical and personal memoirs relating to the families of the state of Massachusetts, Vol. 4, , at https://books.google.com/books?id=FM8UAAAAYAAJ . New York: Lewis historical publishing company, (1910) , p. 2114.
Abram W. Foote, Foote family comprising the genealogy and history of Nathaniel Foote, of Wethersfield, Conn., and his descendants, Vol. 1, , at https://books.google.com/books?id=f1dMAAAAMAAJ . Rutland, Vt.: Marble City Press, The Tuttle Co., (1907) , p. 27.
Nathaniel Goodwin, The Foote family: or, The descendants of Nathaniel Foote, , at https://books.google.com/books?id=3aFMAAAAMAAJ . Hartford: Case, Tiffany and Company, (1849) , p. 48.
Abram W. Foote, Foote family comprising the genealogy and history of Nathaniel Foote, of Wethersfield, Conn., and his descendants, , at https://archive.org/stream/footefamilycompr011907foot . Rutland, Vt.: Marble City Press, The Tuttle Co., (1907) , p. 28.
b. May 5, 1703, d. January 12, 1778
Father: Benjamin Smith b. May 12, 1673
Mother: Ruth Buck b. December 4, 1681, d. before 1754
Elizabeth Smith was born on May 5, 1703 in Northampton, Massachusetts.1
She was the daughter of Benjamin Smith and Ruth Buck.
Elizabeth married John Smith in 1727.1
Elizabeth died on January 12, 1778 in Brattleboro, Windham County, Vermont, at age 74.1
Family: John Smith b. February 1, 1697, d. 1784
Ruth Smith1 b. about 1726
Elizabeth Smith1 b. February 14, 1728, d. July 18, 1814
Timothy Smith1 b. before 1732
Benjamin Smith1 b. May 16, 1732, d. about November, 1803
Rev. Titus Smith b. June 4, 1734, d. September 15, 1807
Seth Smith1 b. August 21, 1736, d. October 18, 1820
Esrael Smith+ b. April 2, 1739, d. June 7, 1811
Lucy Smith1 b. 1746, d. 1763
FamilySearch® Ancestral File™ v4.19,.


This event has been postponed indefinitely due to insufficient interest at this time. If you were intending to register for this event, or would be interested in participating in a similar event in the future, please email us at [email protected]. You can also keep informed of Center activities and upcoming events by signing up for our monthly bulletin and newsletter.
Calling all spiritual seekers / students, psychotherapists, psychiatrists, psychologists, psychoanalysts, spiritual teachers, and healing practitioners!
THE ENLIGHTENED MOMENT provides a physical, emotional, mental, energetic, and spiritual exploration of your personal and spiritual growth and development with the aim of freeing your body, mind, and spirit and furthering your personal evolution in true consciousness.
This event comprises a process of uncovering and revealing your deepest truth with psycho-spiritual teacher Richard Harvey as your guide. The initiating evening session begins with introductions, sharing, and anticipating the process to come.
The first day begins with psycho-physical exercises and movement to free the body and put you in touch with your energy and emotions. In the afternoon the group divides into pairs or smaller groups so that each individual can explore further. The day will end with a sharing and review of the day for integration and healing.
On the second day we begin with a Satsang. You may bring your questions to Richard who will respond from his experience and spiritual wisdom to your psycho-spiritual enquiries, dilemmas, and uncertainties. The later morning and afternoon will be guided by the themes and insights that have evolved and presented throughout the event and the day will close with an ending ceremony.
Richard Harvey is a psychotherapist, spiritual teacher, and the author of many books and articles. He is the Founder / Director of The Center for Human Awakening and the creator of The Way of Sacred Attention, a comprehensive psycho-spiritual approach to the complete development of human beings.
In his early twenties he became part of the Human Potential Movement and studied with some of the leading figures of Western psychology and meditation masters. After years of study and inward searching, he had a personal breakthrough which he experienced as a transformation into authenticity. He worked hard to integrate these new insights and stabilize in the deeper understanding that he received from his years of personal work. Out of this rich experience his practice developed and he began working with individuals, couples and groups.
Richard Harvey's work spans more than 40 years. During that time he has worked with individuals, couples, groups and communities, both psychologically and spiritually. He has helped hundreds of people to find greater peace and fulfillment in their lives. Richard's approach is to encourage, empower and enable people to clarify, heal, and liberate themselves from the restrictive conditioning that compromises their relationships, family and working lives.
Richard has led groups, workshops, seminars and training courses throughout Europe, as well as maintaining a private practice. He has served as a consultant to training courses, worked with staff groups and communities, run supervision groups, and acted as a supervisor to psychotherapists.
At the heart of Richard Harvey's work is the awakening of individual consciousness, within the wider context of collective spiritual awakening, through a threefold process of work on the personality, the transformation into authenticity, and the realization of our true nature.
* Intended for those who cannot afford the 'full' rate.
Full refunds are offered if cancellation notice received before March 15. No refunds on or after March 15.
Careful consideration has been given to select food that will accommodate vegetarian diets. If you have any dietary restrictions, please inform us when you register and pay for the event. We will do what we can to accommodate you.
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The 1st, 10th, 25th, and 50th person to register for the Enlightened Moment - Ottawa will receive their registration at half price!
You will be notified by your registration email if you qualify for this special offer and your refund of half your registration fee will be issued after March 15. This offer applies to individual registration only. Pairs or group registration does not qualify.
Congratulations to Gina Pilon who is our 1st registrant for the Enlightened Moment - Ottawa. Gina will receive her registration at 1/2 price! Be the 10th, 25th, or 50th person to register and you will receive your registration at 1/2 price! See details above.
New video update released of Enlightened Moment events. See above.
12'noon EST - Registration opens for the Enlightened Moment - Ottawa!
Registration for the Enlightened Moment - Ottawa to open at 12'noon EST on November 1!
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text:
Browsing subject area: Bibliography, National -- United States (Include extended shelves)
Bibliography, National -- United States
Bibliography, National
Bibliography -- United States
Narrower term:
Bibliography, National -- United States -- Periodicals
Filed under: Bibliography, National -- United States
U. S. National Bibliography and the Copyright Law: An Historical Study (New York: R. R. Bowker Co., 1960), by Joseph William Rogers, contrib. by Verner W. Clapp (page images at HathiTrust)
Filed under: Bibliography, National -- United States -- Periodicals
American Literary Gazette and Publishers' Circular (full serial archives)
American Publishers' Circular and Literary Gazette (partial serial archives)
Filed under: Bibliography, National -- Great Britain -- Periodicals
The Book Monthly (partial serial archives)
The Reference Catalogue of Current Literature (partial serial archives)
Filed under: Editions -- United States -- History
Proofs of Genius: Collected Editions from the American Revolution to the Digital Age (Ann Arbor: University of Michigan Press, 2015), by Amanda A. Gailey (HTML with commentary at Digital Culture Books)
Filed under: Best books -- United States
Children's Book-A-Day Almanac (online version, updated regularly), by Anita Silvey (illustrated HTML at childrensbookalmanac.com)
Filed under: Best books -- California
Children's Booklist , by Theosophical Society Children's Committee (HTML at theosophy-nw.org)
Filed under: Union catalogs -- United States
The National Union Catalog, Pre-1956 Imprints (754 volumes; London: Mansell, 1968-1981) (page images at HathiTrust)
American Literary Manuscripts: A Checklist of Holdings in Academic, Historical, and Public Libraries in the United States (Austin: University of Texas Press, c1960), by Modern Language Association of America (page images at HathiTrust)
Filed under: United States
A Comprehensive View of our Country and Its Resources (1876), by James D. McCabe (page images at MOA)
Filed under: United States -- Antiquities
River Basin Surveys Papers (partial serial archives)
Prehistoric Pottery of the Eastern United States (looseleaf series from the Museum of Anthropology, University of Michigan, 1950s), ed. by James B. Griffin (page images at HathiTrust)
Filed under: United States -- Appropriations and expenditures
Tax Expenditures: The Hidden Entitlements (second edition; Washington: Citizens for Tax Justice, 1996), by Robert S. McIntyre (HTML and PDF at ctj.org)
Financing of Aswan High Dam in Egypt: Hearing Before the Committee on Appropriations, United States Senate, Eighty-fourth Congress, Second Session. January 26, 1956 (Washington: GPO, 1956), by United States. Congress. Senate. Committee on Appropriations (page images at HathiTrust)
Filed under: United States -- Armed Forces
America the Vulnerable: Our Military Problems and How to Fix Them (Philadelphia: Foreign Policy Research Institute, ca. 2002), ed. by John F. Lehman and Harvey Sicherman (PDF with commentary at fpri.org)
Conventional Coercion Across the Spectrum of Operations: The Utility of U.S. Military Forces in the Emerging Security Environment (Santa Monica, CA: Rand, 2002), by David E. Johnson, Karl P. Mueller, and William H. Taft (PDF files at rand.org)
Hearings, Relating to H.R. 959, Amending the Internal Security Act of 1950 (Obstruction of Armed Forces) (Washington: GPO, 1969), by United States House Committee on Internal Security (page images at HathiTrust)
Filed under: United States -- Biography
Critics and Crusaders (New York: H. Holt and Co. c1948), by Charles Allan Madison (page images at HathiTrust)
Critics and Crusaders: A Century of American Protest (New York: H. Holt and Co. c1947), by Charles Allan Madison (page images at HathiTrust)
Champions of Democracy (Boston: Little, Brown, and Co., 1936), by Joseph Cottler (page images at HathiTrust)
Pioneers of Freedom (New York: The Vanguard Press, 1929), by McAlister Coleman, contrib. by Norman Thomas (page images at HathiTrust)
American Men of Action (Garden City, NY: Doubleday, Page and Co., 1913), by Burton Egbert Stevenson (Gutenberg text and illustrated HTML)
Cambridge Sketches , by Frank Preston Stearns (Gutenberg text)
Famous Americans of Recent Times (Boston: Fields, Osgood and Co., 1871), by James Parton (page images at MOA)
The Gloved Hand: A Detective Story (1913), by Burton Egbert Stevenson, illust. by Thomas Fogarty (Gutenberg text and illustrated HTML)
Great Fortunes, and How They Were Made: or, The Struggles and Triumphs of Our Self-Made Men (Philadelphia et al.: G. Maclean, 1871), by James D. McCabe
Gutenberg text and illustrated HTML
Great Fortunes, and How They Were Made: or, The Struggles and Triumphs of Our Self-Made Men (Cincinnati and Chicago: E. Hannaford and Co.; San Francisco: F. Dewing and Co., 1872), by James D. McCabe (page images at HathiTrust)
Men of Our Day (Philadelphia et al.: Ziegler and McCurdy, c1872), by L. P. Brockett (multiple formats at archive.org)
Men of Our Day (from the 1872 edition; preface and other supplementary material omitted), by L. P. Brockett (HTML with commentary at all-biographies.com)
Men of our Times: or, Leading Patriots of the Day (Hartford: Hartford Pub. Co; et al., 1868), by Harriet Beecher Stowe (page images and uncorrected OCR text at MOA)
Modern Agitators: or, Pen Portraits of Living American Reformers , by D. W. Bartlett (page images at MOA)
Pioneers of Progress (Chicago: T. A. Bland and Co., 1906), by T. A. Bland (HTML and page images at Indiana)
With Americans of Past and Present Days , by J. J. Jusserand (HTML at Bartleby)
The Compendium of American Genealogy (partial serial archives)
Annie Nelles: or, The Life of a Book Agent (Cincinnati: The author, 1868), by Annie Nelles Dumond (page images at HathiTrust)
Presidential Candidates: Containing Sketches, Biographical, Personal and Political, of Prominent Candidates for the Presidency in 1860 , by D. W. Bartlett (page images at MOA)
The Republican Court: or, American Society in the Days of Washington (New York and London: D. Appleton and Co., 1855), by Rufus W. Griswold (page images at HathiTrust)
Something of Men I Have Known; With Some Papers of a General Nature, Political, Historical, and Retrospective (second edition; Chicago: A. C. McClurg and Co., 1909), by Adlai E. Stevenson
Gutenberg text
The Star of the West, or, National Men and National Measures (first edition; Boston: J. French and Co.; New York: Miller, Orton and Mulligan, 1856), by Anna Ella Carroll (multiple formats at archive.org)
The Success Factor , by Fred Good (HTML at homestead.com)
Twelve Men (New York: Boni and Liveright, 1919), by Theodore Dreiser (multiple formats at Indiana)
The Biographical Review of Prominent Men and Women of the Day (c1888), by Thomas William Herringshaw (multiple formats at archive.org)
The Memories of Fifty Years: Containing Brief Biographical Notices of Distinguished Americans, and Anecdotes of Remarkable Men; Interspersed With Scenes and Incidents Occuring During a Long Life of Observation Chiefly Spent in the Southwest (Philadelphia: Claxton, Remsen and Haffelfinger; Macon, GA: J. W. Burke and Co., 1870), by W. H. Sparks (multiple formats at archive.org)
An Account of the Captivity of Elizabeth Hanson, Now or Late of Kachecky, in New-England: Who, With Four of Her Children and Servant-maid, Was Taken Captive By the Indians, and Carried Into Canada (London: Printed and sold by Samuel Clark ... , 1760), by Elizabeth Hanson and Samuel Bownas (multiple formats at archive.org)
Born in Slavery: Slave Narratives from the Federal Writers' Project, 1936-1938 (all 17 volumes of Slave Narratives (pub. 1941), with additional material and commentary), by Federal Writers' Project (page images at LOC)
The Life of Jacob Persinger, Who Was Taken by the Shawnee Indians When An Infant; With a Short Account of the Indian Troubles in Missouri, and a Sketch of the Adventures of the Author (reprint; originally published 1861), by Joseph Persinger (page images at HathiTrust)
A Narrative of the Uncommon Sufferings, and Surprizing Deliverance of Briton Hammon, a Negro Man (Boston: Green and Russell, 1760), by Briton Hammon (HTML and TEI at UNC)
The Star of the West, or, National Men and National Measures (second edition; Boston: J. French and Co.; New York: Miller, Orton and Mulligan, 1857), by Anna Ella Carroll (multiple formats at archive.org)
Filed under: United States -- Capital and capitol
A Debate by the Philalethic Society of St. Louis University, on Monday, February 21, 1870 (On the Subject: "Ought the national capital to be removed to St. Louis?"), by St. Louis University Philalethic Society (page images at MOA)
Washington and its Romance (New York: Doubleday, Page and Co., 1923), by Thomas Nelson Page, illust. by Walter O. Reese and Emily Shaw Reese (page images at HathiTrust)


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Get ready for an all-nighter with Among the Sleep: Enhanced Edition on Switch this year
By Elisha Deogracias
Today, SODESCO announced that it will release Krillbite Studio's Among the Sleep: Enhanced Edition to Nintendo Switch alter this year. The updated version of the horror game will include improved graphics and mechanics, and the Nintendo Switch version of the game will be available physically as well as digitally.
In Among the Sleep, players assume the role of a defenseless two-year old toddler who has lost his mommy. With an unusual teddy bear as his only companion, he wanders off through the eerily dark house to find her. What follows is a haunting search through grim and twisted environments, experienced through the eyes of a scared child.
Among the Sleep features:
Enhanced edition with new dialogue, better performance & visuals and more
Put the pieces of the puzzle together to find out what has happened to your mother
Creep through threatening environments like a twisted forest and a dark house
Unravel a disturbing story filled with tension, symbolism and psychological horror
Stay tuned for more news here on Gaming Trend.
Related Articles: Among the Sleep: Enhanced Edition, Indies


text:
P-Square Storms Sierra Leone After Re-Union (Video)
Nigeria's most profitable pop group, P-Square is now in Sierra Leone and so they have been given a hero's welcome.
The singing duo stormed Sierra Leone yesterday and had been received by an enormous crowd who went nuts the singers had been sighted.
In a video which has gone viral on-line, the P-Sq. brothers are seen standing on their car whereas an enormous crowd surrounding them is heard chanting 'P-Square…P-Square…'.
Apparently, followers are glad the pop group has reunited after years of beefing that noticed the group disband.
https://street77.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/P-Square-Storms-Sierra-Leone-After-Re-Union-Video.mp4
Related Items:P-Square, Sierra Leone
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P-Square Shares Account Number Like Davido To Celebrate 40th Birthday (Photo)
Rick Ross And Diamond Platnumz's Babymama, Hamisa Mobetto, Get pleasure from One other Night Out In Dubai (Video)
Yul Edochie Acquires A New House In Lagos (Photo)


Description: Earth day is every day at Chrisholm Historic Farmstead. Come out and see what MetroParks is doing to be in the "green". Learn how to be good stewards of the earth and help us in the gardens and care for the farm animals, too. *MidPointe Library Book Mobile* will be here for this FREE program for all ages. For more information call (513) 867-5835 Ext. 301.


We offer convenient local delivery of dry ice!
Dry Ice can be used to freeze your game and eliminate spoilage due to heat and improper transport. meats and seafood will stay fresher and safer for your family and friends. To prevent freezer burn make sure the dry cie does not come in driect contact with the food.
A proper container and safety comes first, but nothing does the job better.
Transport and store ice cream and frozen foods during long shopping trips in summer and spring. enjoy ice cream at the beach on vacation, on a picnic, at a community block party, a pool party or school events.
Dry ice can provide opportunities for your outing that you may not even have considered!
Prolong the life of your wet ice. Place dry ice in the bottom of your cooler, cover completely with wet ice and pack your cooler as normal. The cooler will keep items cold for approximately 3 or 4 days.
To freeze products, place dry ice on top of the items to be frozen to cool products, place dry ice on bottom of cooler, cover with insulation material or wet ice, then place food and beverages on top. Product should never come in contact with dry ice!
Take those little buggers out with dry ice!
To remove a small population of bed bugs or test to see if any are present, you can build an inexpensive trap, using 2-3 pounds of dry ice , a plastic pet food bowl, an insulated jug, tape, fabric, and talcum powder. This is best done at night when you can douse the lights in the room, as bed bugs prefer the dark.
Dry ice also is good for insect control at outdoor barbecues. Place dry ice at outer perimeter of a designated area, dry ice attracts mosquitoes, bees, knats, etc., keeping you insect free while you enjoy your day outdoor.
Avoid contact with skin, eyes, mouth and clothing. May cause cold burns.
Asphyxiant - liberates heavy gas which may cause suffocation.
A: Dry ice is the solid form of carbon dioxide (CO2). It is colorless, tasteless, odorless gas found in our atmosphere.
Q: How is dry ice stored?
A: Dry ice should be stored in an insulated container. The thicker the insulation, the slower it will sublimate. Depending on the climate and thickness of the container, typical dry ice sublimation is approximately 2% to 10% a day.
Q: What are some applications for dry ice?


As a follow up to Simen's post C.S. Lewis' Trilemma – Liar, Lunatic or Divine?, I'd like to post a comment by Michael Turton's from one of my earlier blogs.
If you type this into Google, you'll find thousands of Christian websites that apparently feel this is a high point of Christian apologetics. It's actually illogical and uninformed, and it does not reflect well on people who accept it as serious thinking.
You can see the first problem here. Lewis writes "A man who said the sort of things Jesus said…" but accepting this premise first requires that we establish what Jesus said. It is not easy to separate what Jesus said from what was added to his sayings later. There is widespread disagreement among scholars on what goes back to Jesus. Many scholars believe, for example, that nothing in John goes back to Jesus. Others argue that anything about Gentiles or food laws is a later addition. Still others point out that Jesus' sayings closely resemble popular philosophical sayings of his time.
What arguments or evidence does Lewis offer about what Jesus said? Well, I've read Mere Christianity, and I didn't see any. So unless Lewis can tell me how he knows what Jesus intended, I do not see that there is any support for his claim from that direction. In fact, Lewis even writes that Jesus claimed to be God, but nowhere is there a clear statement of that in the Gospels (even a statement like "I and the Father are one" can be interpreted in many ways). Many, many scholars would dispute that historical Jesus ever made such a claim.
But it gets worse, because in addition to lacking scriptural support, Lewis' position is a string of logical fallacies. First, he offers you three choices. Either Jesus was really God, or he was a devil, or he was crazy. "A man who said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a great moral teacher. He would either be a lunatic–on a level with the man who says he is a poached egg–or else he would be the Devil of Hell." Any time someone gives you violently opposed choices you should start becoming suspicious about his arguments.
Think about it. Could a liar be a great moral teacher? Of course! All the great moral teachers of history were human beings, and like all humans, must have been liars. Martin Luther King plagiarized his doctoral thesis and cheated on his wife. His "I have a dream" is taken unacknowledged from a speech written by a friend of his. Does that mean he wasn't a great moral teacher and leader? Of course not! Just imagine all the great moral leaders and teachers you know – didn't they all have human failings? So with Jesus. There is no reason to imagine that simply because he was a great moral teacher, he must be divine.
Furthermore, there is no reason to imagine that Jesus had to have been a liar to make the claims that he did. He might have sincerely believed in what he said. He might even have sincerely believed he was God. His followers might have believed it too. That sort of thing has happened before as well. But even if he were crazy, would that invalidate him as a great moral teacher? Crazy people are as likely to say intelligent and insightful things as anybody. After all, saying Jesus was a nut doesn't really say anything about what kind of nut he was. He might have been a nut like Kurt Godel, one of the great philosophers of all time, who in his later years insisted on communicating with everyone by phone even if they were in the same room. Yet his social strangenesses did not prevent him from being a truly great thinker and teacher.
Another problem with this point of view is that in fact there is nothing particularly divine about Jesus' teachings in any case; they can be found in the popular philosophy, Cynic and Stoic, of his day, and in the Old Testament. For example, when Jesus tells people that the physicians do not heal the healthy, he quotes a famous Cynic maxim going back several centuries. Do we then claim that the Cynic philosopher who first thought that up was divine? Probably most people would not. When Jesus cites the famous Shema in Mark 12:29-31, he is citing a bit of Jewish moral teaching. So should we then regard all the Jewish teachers who taught this as divine also? The Golden Rule, found in many cultures, is another example of this. Were all those teachers divine?
Were the Gospels eyewitness accounts of the life of Jesus?
Jesus – to be or not to be, that is the question!
Entry filed under: The de-Convert. Tags: apologetics, atheism, Bible, christianity, freethinking, Jesus, religion, skepticism, spirituality, theology.
The Persecution Complex	God: An imaginary friend for grown-ups?
Good post. I always enjoy your stuff.
Regarding (1): Though an extremely avid fan of Lewis, I think your objections are predominantly well-placed. The trilemma is relatively weak argument. I don't believe this for all of the reasons you said, nor do I think it was given its proper due; but I do agree, it's a weak argument for theism. Thankfully, I consider their to be stronger one's circulating – for my sake. 🙂 Anyhow, some comments regarding Lewis' Trilemma. First, I think it is pretty evident that Christ, if we are to use Scripture as a worthy and reliable source, claimed He was God (Mark 14: 61-62); where, to paraphrase, Christ is asked if He is the Son of the Blessed, and He answers "I am". Now, I forsee two main objections: 1) What does Son of the Blessed mean? Based on the comments concerning "the Father and I are one", I think we are stretching intellectual honesty to claim that this probabilisitcally suggest that Christ is notclaiming He is God. If the Father is God, and Christ is claiming to be the Father; well, you finish the syllogism (if Socrates is man, and all men are mortal: then Socrates is mortal). So that is one area I think we need to check ourselves with regards to whether we are being intellectually honest with ourselves.
Secondly, one will likely reject Scripture as reliable source. If I may, may I just leave it, at this point, as an agreement on disagreement. 🙂 Yes, agree to disagree? I would much rather focus on (2), the de-conversion wager, and save what space I have here.
Thanks for the opportunity to post!
Truth be told, no real legitimate scholar believes Jesus did not exist. "The entire English-speaking world divides history into two principle periods: BC ("Before Christ") and AD ("Anno Domini" — Latin for "Year of Our Lord"). Whether one subscribes to the BC/AD labels or the new "politically correct" BCE/CE ("Common Era") labels, the birth of Jesus Christ has always been the dividing line in history.
Also, nobody can deny the fact that every leader of every major world religion has confronted the historical Jesus. Muslims recognize Jesus as a prophet, while Jews either see him as a blaspheming rebel or an exceptional rabbi elevated to deity by idolatrous Gentiles. Many Buddhists regard Jesus as a "bodhisattva" (a perfectly enlightened being who vows to help others), while there's a Hindu tradition that Jesus was actually a guru who learned yogic meditation in India" (Niles).
Besides the impact Jesus has had on every major religion, we find evidence of his existence from the Babylonian Talmud, Josephus, Pliny the Younger, Tacitus, Seutonius, Mara Bar-Serapion, Lucian of Samosata, and so on (as I think you get the point). The plain truth is that Jesus of Nazareth lived, like it or not.
Now that it is clear that Jesus did in fact exist….
I'm a little confused as to how this says Jesus was claiming he was God. In a direct reading, he was simply answering a question. Such as someone asking if I am the daughter of my parents. My response: "I am." Here, they are asking if he is the Messiah, who is the son of the Blessed one, and he says that he is. (I realize the standard response here might be along the lines of the 'I am,' but that is a basic response to a lot of questions. He's not even saying that he is the "I am." If read straightforward, it just looks like an answer).
Or misunderstood man, period. It didn't take long for Jesus' message, or even his identity, to fragment, given the types of Christianities that flourished for the first few centuries.
But I do like the response that a liar can deliver a moral message — after all, if one proposes that Jesus was a liar and thus his entire message is invalidated, isn't that an ad hominem atttack? It's combinging the message with the man, rather than focusing on the message itself. Same with the lunatic scenario.
Yes, He was answering a question. But what was the question? If He is asked, "Are you the Messiah?" as you concede He is asked, and He answered "I am"; what is the difficulty here? I'm not sure where your confusion rests. It does just look like an answer because it is an answer, and answer to a question, about whether He is the Messiah, who is the Son of God, and He answers "I am". Just once case in Scripture where this occurs.
Perhaps I am misundertanding your question though (which I am all to often prone to do) :).
It is a moderated blog.
That verse I see Jesus simply answering the question as to whether he was the Messiah, who was the Son of the Blessed One. I don't see that as a claim to being God. I see the 'I am' statement as a response. Unless you're saying that Jesus' claim to God rests on being the Messiah or the Son of God?
I misunderstood you. 🙂 I suppose you have every right to deny the inference (for it is a inference) that by "I am"; Christ is not claiming to be the "I Am". But, I consider Christ to be a rather intelligent man (at least with regards to Scripture); as the parallels He makes are very numerous (and I think these cases of "I am" are also numerous). I also think "I and the Father are one" are very suggestive. Furthermore, the accusations against Jesus were that He claimed to be God (John 10:33). But whether He deliberately said the Greek word theos; no, it doesn't appear He did in the text. But personally, I see enough parallels stemming from the Man's words that He is suggesting this; and at least, if just a prophet, God looked on him with extraordinary favor (thus, the resurrection – the Holy Spirit descending and taking over His teaching).
Not sure if I'll be able to check back here much, any further comments, feel free to reply and hopefully I'll get to see them. Otherwise, send me an email or something. 🙂 Thanks for the remarks!
I understand that we have discussed this before but you are in denial here and as you know I love to help. Name any definition what you think God is and it can be scriptural linked to Jesus also. Remember my link Deity of Christ It really helps those who really don't think that Jesus was God himself. Define God and it will also be the definition of Jesus. Proof is in the Bible. Give it a try. He is man and God and you must have faith in that. It will be proven to the nay-sayers hopefully soon before the rapture. After the rapture the new believers will be beheaded for their faith. I hope you are all ready for that level of persecution.
Brad also said in that last post "When I stress the importance of tone, context, etc. I do so because I WANT you to be more effective in your evangelism, truth proclamation, etc. Truly." I appreciate that advice buddy but I am not evangelizing here at this post. I would call it defending and debating but not evangelizing. You cannot preach the good news to people that publicly have literally declared war on God. Who will not listen to reason or logic. I enjoy a good debate now and again so I chime in often but to think anyone at this blog does not understand the "good news" is naive or in denial.
1. An infallible, inerrant, inspired Holy Book contains no fallacies or errors.
2. The aforementioned Book states that 'penguins do not exist'.
4. (3) conflicts with (2).
5. If (3) really is true, (1) must be false.
6. If (1) really is true, (3) must be a trick of the devil.
You will justify anything to keep your views. Debating a fundamentalist on the history of the universe is utterly futile for this reason. Once you accept that your scripture is NOT UNIQUE and NOT INERRANT, then we can talk. Until then, my cats offer more constructive debates.
As for your first challenge to Heather, only a grasping theologian would find some illogical defence of Jesus as omniscient after reading Matthew 24:36 or 27:46.
http://www.talkorigins.org for a particularly thorough analysis. Hovind's statement "my word is good" is especially ironic when you know that he has since been sent to prison for ten years for fraud and other offences.
In fact sums far greater than $260,000 are paid out every year for evidence of (macro) evolution. They are called research grants. Of course the subject has long since ceased to be whether macro-evolution takes place, but how it does, and how fast. The research has shed an immense and fascinating amount of light on living organisms, but I gather that you prefer to sit in the dark.
As for your second link, I would suggest visiting the rest of the talkorigins site for a demolition of pretty well every creationist argument ever put forward. And as for the "without evidence", try this page: 29+ Evidences for Macroevolution.
I approve all messages that people comment…the reason I leave it to moderating is because it allows me to see the comments as they come in so I can address them. I have never not approved one.
I've been thinking about this and you're right. That pretty much sums up my view.
For the sake of time, I am going to ignore issues already discussed in past posts and will suffice to leave it at this.
Dan: Dude. Come on. Go read Francis Schaefer. Please. At the minimum go read Ephesians 4:15.
In Re: to the whole C.S. Lewis debate….
Admittedly, partly due to Christians' overemphasis on Lewis' trilemma, Lewis (and "Mere Christianity" in particular) has been made into something he was not. This passage was never meant to be a confessional statement, doctrine, or even hard theology. Lewis was a creative writer first and foremost, and a theologian second. Like Jesus, he mostly used parables, illustrations, and a narrative style of writing to emphasize principles of Christianity. I sincerely doubt he would have been so arrogant as to believe this "theory" was watertight and the end-all apologetic for Christianity. Undoubtedly, he recognized holes.
If we view Lewis' Trilemma in light of systematic theology, no doubt it is shaky at best. It is an illustration, not meant to be a legal brief. Lewis of all people understood the importance of organic narrative to speak to the human heart. He was most definitely not writing a mathematical equation or a logician's proof.
i.e. someone called the "son of a minstrel" is in fact, also a minstrel himself. This is one reason why Christians believe that Jesus was both wholly man (as he referred to himself as the "son of man" repeatedly) as well as wholly God (as the Son of God).
Jesus claims repeatedly to be the son of God, which is why the priests and pharisees sought so desperately to kill him SPECIFICALLY for the crime of blasphemy.
Additionally, we have Luke 3:22 where God is quoted, calling Jesus His "beloved Son." Matthew 28:18 quotes Jesus saying "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me." That is quite a high claim, indeed, and is synonymous with divinity. The very next verse (19) has him telling the disciples to make disciples of all nations and baptize in the name of "the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit." No one in the history of Judaism has baptized in the name of a prophet or other mortal. Only God.
So no, we do not have Jesus stating verbatim "I am God," but there are multiple statements that stand alone in support of that claim, and gain additional strength when collected together. In short, Jesus did in fact claim, and believed himself to be, God.
That's my two cents. First and foremost, this debate is truly moot as Lewis never intended for his writing to be a legal brief or mathematical equation. I think we can all find holes in each others' arguments well enough, yet that should not totally invalidate every claim. Key example: Dan quoted me as saying that I do not deny macro-evolution has some evidence, yet I still believe it is far from complete or convincing. This does not mean I think anyone who believes it is stupid, or that the argument itself is not at least plausible.
Is this how Judaism understands the term 'son of God', though? I believe they hold that angels are called the sons of God, as well. But that doesn't make them equal with God. Plus, that phrasing is used in terms of an occupation. If a person said, "I am the son of David," it doesn't mean that I am David. God is a name, not an occupation.
Matthew 28:18 quotes Jesus saying "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me." That is quite a high claim, indeed, and is synonymous with divinity.
How is that synonymous, though? The key phrase in there is "given," as in, the authority was given to him by God. God also gave authority to other prophets to speak for him. God could've given the authority to Jesus. Even with the 'in the name of the …' verse. One, it doesn't look like that was carried out in Acts during baptisms (and the only mention of such a procedure is in that Matthew section), and two, even that is incredibly vague. It says nothing about all three being the same, or equal.
This isn't meant to detract from the Trilemma discussion, nor do I want to get into a debate about particular verses here. If we do that, it should be on one of our own blogs, rather than taking up space here. Rather — and I can't speak for everyone — but anyone I've met who doesn't hold to the Trinity doesn't take that position lightly, and has put a lot of thought into it. The case in point is what I've mentioned above — I can find answers to what you posted above that, to me, are simpler than using the Trinity arrangement.
I sincerely doubt he would have been so arrogant as to believe this "theory" was watertight and the end-all apologetic for Christianity. Undoubtedly, he recognized holes.
Geniune curiousity here — do you have a way in which you categorize certain aspects? As in, this part of Jesus is the man, this part is the myth and so on.
man – the person that did actually exist in history, probably a Jewish teacher with some radical interpretations of Mosaic law.
myth – various promotions of divinity by Paul and/or the Gnostics. Most mythmaking concerning a messiah figure came after the fall of the temple which created a crisis in the political and religious order of Jewish Palestine.
misunderstood – the way that his own disciples viewed and probably the authors of the gospels (internal evidence is obvious).
The misunderstood portion doesn't surprise me. Just look at all the various interpretations before the 4th century. And, as you said, the author of the gospels. Each had a variation.
Jesus chose this way to point out how David considered the Christ ("my Lord" and a descendant of his) equal with "The Lord" (God). Jesus most definitely claimed to be the Christ.
1.) Acts most likely does not address the specifics of what name people were baptized by because it was so well known by definition. In the same way, you would not feel the need to state that you used bread in making a sandwich. It is commonly known and assumed. Church tradition confirms this.
2.) While they may not have been said to be the same or equal in that passage specifically, we cannot derive entire doctrine from individual verses. The doctrine of the Trinity is derived from a microscopic and macroscopic reading of the bible.
It is the most widely accepted standard across biblical scholars of all backgrounds, faiths, and spectrum of opinion (McKnight).
Anyway, I still say that Lewis never intended his Trilemma to speak to the modernist claims that many Christians say it does, and thus a critique on the same basis is moot if it seeks to prove anything beyond that fact.
Except this doesn't address the fact that the angels are called the sons of God, in the Judaic tradition. And if we asked someone who was Jewish about the son of God aspect, would they agree with the Christian idea? I don't think we can use the New Testament as a grasp of what the Judaic thought is, given the differences between the two religions, and that the NT is written from a Christian perspective. I've heard quite a few people say that the characteristics of the Pharisees are "off" in the NT.
I'm sorry, we were suppose to drop it. I just get really leery about interpreting one religion through the lens of another. A lot of what Christianity says about Judaism doesn't seem to match what Jews say about Judaism.
If someone offered me the choice between 'liar, lunatic, or lord', I'd make a counter-offer: legend.
We know how legends can get out of hand, and I'd say that's what happened with Christianity.
I think the problem with the quote is that it is trite, and misses out at least one option.
Jesus could have been mad, bad or God. Or he could have been misunderstood, misquoted or just plain wrong.
By the way, I don't think the idea was lifted from chesterton, but I know where to ask to find out definitively.
Well, it was a Jew who told me about the "son of" aspect. He cited it as why 1st century Jews were so pissed about Jesus' claims. So I am getting from the mouth of at least one horse.
I beg to differ on so many levels… This is a key component of the "extra-text" that I spoke of in my last comment. The NT is written (depending on the author) from a VERY Jewish perspective. It was not for many decades after Jesus' death that it was considered anything beyond a unique sect of Judaism. Paul, the most prolific author in the NT was a Pharisee himself! This, in fact, is N.T. Wright's most adamant claim, that he was writing from the Hebrew tradition first and foremost. Your statement reflects an incorporation of the present cultural context far more than 1st century context.
With the exception of the identity of the messiah, and the accepted writings of the NT (allowing for various opinions and sects within the faith) we have the same faith, in the same God. It is the same covenant, and the same history (ICor. 10:1-11). Indeed, one CANNOT understand, appreciate, or believe in the Christian faith without having some understanding of Judaism.
Your statement reflects an incorporation of the present cultural context far more than 1st century context.
Except I'm pulling my statement, and my information, from Judaism itself, and rabbis and so on. I take what Christianity says about their religion, and then see what they say about their own religion, and their own history. They wouldn't agree with the Jewish perspective in the NT, and they haven't. What they say about their history and culture, and what Christianity says about their history and culture is sometimes Yes, Paul was a Pharisee, but the reason why I say we can't use the NT as a complete lens into Judaic thought is. I've heard from quite a few quarters that the behavior of the Pharisees in the gospels is not an accurate picture.
With the exception of the identity of the messiah, and the accepted writings of the NT (allowing for various opinions and sects within the faith) we have the same faith, in the same God.
The concept of the Messiah is a huge difference. And even the idea of God — I don't think they'd agree, given the concept of the Trinity, and the idea that God could take human form. There's also the matter of original sin, the Second Coming, the way the covenant operates, the way the OT is interpreted and so on.
Further to my above comment, I'm told by the President of the American Chesterton Society that the quote is not directly from Chesterton but an abridgement of the first part of his (ie chesterton's) masterpiece 'Orthodoxy'. Which probably explains why it doesn't make any sense.
The NT is written (depending on the author) from a VERY Jewish perspective.
What if I told you that the Book of Mormon is written from a Christian perspective? Or that the "Children of God" were just a little Christian denomination?
Some of the NT is so Jewish that what later Christians warped it to be in its amalgamation with Paul's letters is revolting. Even the fact that you refer to the NT as some homogeneous entity is disingenuous. Brad, I must say that anyone who cites only one theologian who has a very specific mission in his interpretations makes me wary. Why not Still, Ascough, Crossan, Mack, Mount, Kugler, Cosgrove, Carter, Glancy, or Wise?
Remember that much of contemporary Judaism has been a reaction to the Christian usurpation and warping of its traditions and texts. The Judaism of today is not the Judaism of the 3rd or 1st century. And the Judaism of the 1st century differs from the Judaism of the 4th century BCE.
The debate concerning the "son of God" must keep in mind that the term was common among Greco-Roman culture and that any attempt to convert non-Jews (i.e. Paul's mission) would have needed to use those term. The problem with the text is that the term "Son of Man" continues to overshadow "Son of God" and yet the terms have been used so interchangeably in Christian history that we cannot trust the scriptural integrity of either.
I do not claim that it is a complete lens into Judaic thought. I do claim that it is not contradiction to it. One cannot have a complete lens on Judaic thought without the OT, and neither can one have a complete lense on Christian thought without the OT. I am not speaking in absolutes.
While I would not use the term "warping," I totally agree with TA. He is dead on. Judaism has undergone change over the centuries just as Christianity has, and both faiths do use the same text differently over the years.
Time. Sheer time. I am reading all I can, as fast as I can. I am 23 years old (try not to hold it against me) and am continually expanding my horizons on many levels. I wholehearedly believe that if one reads and listens to only the views one agrees with, his kids are going to start looking a little funny. Doctrine unchallenged or unquestioned will retard. In short, I'm getting there! I have not read only one author, however, and am drawing on material from the likes of Piper, Keller, Carson, Perry, Williams, Marrienne Thompson (whom I VERY disagree with), and others as well. Trust me, I have not formed my views in a vaccuum.
Can you be more specific with this? I feel there are multiple ways to take this and want to address what you mean specifically.
I do — Judaism has adapted as the years have passed. So has Christianity. Every religion has changed throughout the years. It's inevitable. But what I've read in terms of Judaism were the beliefs held 2,000 years ago, and even prior to that, and how those beliefs would've worked in terms of Christianity, as well as why it doesn't accept Christian claims today. I've even analyzed the "warped" passages between Christianity and Judaism (which was really fascinating). I simply don't think we can succesfully analyze any religion through another, because then we won't get a full picture, and that's why I cringe when I see someone saying that Jesus didn't match what the Jews were looking for — because it's so much deeper than that.
Heather, you and I are on the same page, I think I just wanted to make the clarification just in case you were read wrong.
Brad, age has nothing to do with scholarship. I have, like several other contributors at d-C, had theological training (I am also one of the youngest contributors here). I have also had academic training in the secular study of religion. My biggest disappointment concerning the former was that we always had to start with a conclusion and then try and work the evidence into it. Marks were based more on how convincing you could make the same end result that your classmates were working towards. You can read anything under this way of thinking and you will also be forced into the conclusions and assumptions you started with (see Descartes' overrated failed attempt). If, however, you have a concern for the truth of the matter, you must have some doubt – very few theologians are capable of this.
I encourage anyone to purchase an online (or print if you have some extra cash) subscription to the Journal of Biblical Literature, especially if you are a student (they have a discount). Some of the best contemporary Biblical scholars contribute to the JBL.
P.S.(Brad) I notice on your website that you have an appreciation for Schaeffer – I am not going to rant here, but I strongly encourage you to read up on those he "philosophically" opposes (although rarely cites, such as Kierkegaard). You might find some things surprising.
I think I just wanted to make the clarification just in case you were read wrong.
Quite understandable — forums such as these can be tricky, due to the written-only format.
Christianity's interpretations of the Tanakh are horrendous distortions in the eyes of Jews no matter what century we live in.
This is also true. About two years ago or so, I decided to investigate why Judaism didn't accept Jesus as the Messiah. After all, the prophecies that Jesus "fufilled" were very clear, so what prevented them acknowledging Jesus?
The answer I quickly found was that I was making a lot of assumptions based on a Christian mindset, and they didn't have shallow or silly reasons for believing the way they did. It was actually a rather complex matter, and my initial assumptions had to do with something you stated: starting with the conclusion and going backwards. It was a good lesson.
Greetings! I just found your blog. This is a very good post. For conversation's sake, you should probably know that I am a Christian, but totally agree with most of your post.
Lewis' "logical box trap" is not really so water-tight. I think there are other ways to interpret and make sense of Jesus. Thanks for blogging, I'm glad to have a new conversation partner.
and all of the supernatural occurances?
Jesus was far more than His words.
play into the supernatural life He lived?
Do "ordinary" guys do the stuff he did?
when they have found ONEness with The Father.
as You and I are One".
Oh how I love that prayer.
Is there a way to look at the actions of Jesus (if you distrust which words were attributed to him) and interpret from there? Would we have reason to believe Jesus is the greatest model of humanity and divinity without his words?
I would say this should be primary anyway. People can say anything they want, but when we examine their actions, many times their words end up being "explanations for their actions".
Why did Jesus "shut down" the Temple temporarily? Why did Jesus celebrate Passover on the wrong day? Why did Jesus ride a donkey over the hill with tears in his eyes? Why did Jesus breathe on his disciples?
"Messiah" is the Hebrew word for "the Anointed One". It was attributed to all the kings of Israel until Babylonian captivity, when it became a word used for their next future king.
I do not argue that they are not distortions in the eyes of the Jews. I very much agree and concede that it seems that Christianity hijacked the Jewish faith. However, "warping" has far more negative connotation, and does not reflect the truthfulness of the "reinterpretation" that shows Christ as Messiah. It is not so much a reinterpretation as it is a correction of a mostly correct interpretation. This however, is mincing words, as I suspect we will still disagree.
Brother, you should have come to Covenant! I have been amazed at the humility of the professors here, and have not once encountered a situation like you describe. I do not deny that it is common place among other seminaries, though. I have been incredibly blessed.
And in Re: to Schaefer, I am aware of some of the philosophies he critiques. His struggle was greatly reactionary toward the modernist "drive by tracting" and truth without love or relationship that many of his contemporaries preached. He was probably far more post-modern than many of us today. I appreciate his perspective, and adopt much of his style of apologetics because it is an incarnational theology (that is, it embodies the truth of scripture in deed as well as word) that reaches the postmodern mindset and restores Christianity from it's hypocritical reputation.
I am aware of his critique of Kierkegaard, but what else are you referring to?
However, "warping" has far more negative connotation, and does not reflect the truthfulness of the "reinterpretation" that shows Christ as Messiah.
What it would come down to is one person's warping is another person's reinterpretation. Because warping is precisely how they see it, and so they aren't going to modify their statements to reflect what Christianity perceives as true. Even to use the phrase of a mostly correct interpretation — in a lot of ways, I think they'd disagree with that, given the different prophecies in both religions (because I don't think there were that many Christ-prophecies that were considered prophecies until after the fact), and the differences highlighted earlier — a divine Messiah, God as man, original sin, the purpose of the Messiah, the concept of heaven/hell, and even the portrayel of Judaism. One scholar I've read said that the idea of Paul showing that Judaism was a legalistic religion and one earning salvation/righteousness under the law is not an accurate description of Judaism, which is recognized by scholars outside "traditional" Christianity (in that obedience to the Torah is a response to being given the Torah, but salvation wasn't earned through that obedience). You might already be familiar with this, actually, because I think N.T. Wright showcases this in his New Perspective on Paul idea?
Reinterpretation seems a lot closer, imo.
I don't expect Jews to simply throw out their tradition or interpretation of Torah. I am saying that just because they believe it does not make it correct. Just as Christianity is, Judaism is a subjective viewing of objective truth. I do claim that Christianity is far more correct, but specifically in regards to the Messiah.
My response is a question: "Where in scripture has there been a prophecy that was seen to be fulfilled as it happened?" Furthermore, prophets have been known to be killed because the people did not like what they had to say (Zechariah, for instance). Is it any wonder that fulfillment of messianic prophecy was not so well received by some?
Yes and no. He does showcase it somewhat in his commentary on Romans. It is interesting, to be sure, and helps shed a lot of light on his hebrew heritage. However, his analysis of Paul (and I'm echoing a similar vein as John Piper and Greg Perry) does not incorporate his Roman/Hellenistic background, or that of his audience (that, or if it does, Wright puts an overemphasis on Paul's Jewish background over Paul's understanding of his gentile audience).
Also, remember that Paul was a Pharisee, and of the most legalistic sect of Judaism. If his portrayal seems legalistic at times, it is because of his experience within it. The Pharisees at the time of his involvement, were advocating that their strict adherence to the law (and additional restrictions they placed on themselves) be "enforced" on all of Israel (Witherington, "Community and Conflict in Corinth").
As such, I can very much see how Christian authors and commentators can mistakenly assign that role to all of Judaism, which is where Wright is writing from. However, we cannot take an extreme reaction to that, and deny that legalism had NO place, or that it was not a major aspect of, 2nd Temple Judaism.
What I'm saying with being interpreted 'after the fact' is that — well, take the Isaiah 7, with the virgin birth. Up until Christianity had the virgin birth, that wasn't seen as a prophecy speaking towards that. Rather, it was to Azaz, in that the sign was a young woman was with child, bear the son and by the time the child learns to reject evil and choose good, desolation will come to the land and so forth. That was never part of any Messianic prophecy. And then Christianity has the virgin birth, and that's considered part of the prophecies foretelling Jesus. That's what I mean by 'after the fact.' The event occured, and then elements in the OT were used to support that event. I mean, if you simply read the Isaiah prophecy as translated in Hebrew, there is no sense that it applies to anything outside of Azaz, or an impregnanted virgin.
Also, remember that Paul was a Pharisee, and of the most legalistic sect of Judaism.
But again — this scholar was saying that, outside of the traditional Christian scholarship, Judaism isn't shown as earning salvation through works. It had nothing to do with Paul's sense of legalism, but how Judaism was interpreted through Paul's statements in later generations, such as by Luther. I may not have been clear on that, but Christianity does give the impression that Jews operate as though they can earn salvation by obeying the law or doing good works. Rather, Jews follow the law, or perform good works out of gratitude for the covenant that God has made between him and the Jews. I think they hold that election/salvation are dependent upon God, not upon their actions.
Did legalism creep in, and was it demonstrated by some? I'm sure it did/was, just as it's demonstrated in certain Christians as well (note: I'm not saying that you are legalistic. But I'm sure you've met a CHristian or two who was legalistc).
This isn't quite on topic…but I need to say something to Dan.
I admire your Christian spirit and love. But a word of advice: do not rely on Kirk Cameron and Ray Comfort only for your arguments. Those two do make an occasional good point, but any respectable scholar and theologian will tell you that they are incorrect in a lot of their blind assumptions.
I used to be totally into what they were doing, but i have taken a step back, and a step up…and it is quite obvious that they are promoting a very limited Jesus and Christianity.
Again, they make good points here and there, but I would strongly encourage you to broaden your theological horizons.
I guess what I've decided is…there is no end all…maybe we need to be listening to the messengers. Like right now, I hear the message of "Go Green"….I'm kind of keen to the idea. I just hope it doesn't get lost in some structured perverted religious dominated way. I hope it's free and brings goodness…. And now I think I am babbling.
Jesus, The Christ…simply a human being, with a gift to inspire and to show to interested people something pure, something timeless. If you had the same ability, the same gift, would you offer it at all, or would you just let a circle of trusted friends or specifically interested people know, …or would you go public or keep it secret?
Your choice, right? So, who are we as possibly ones to benefit or enrich our lives, to judge without knowing, the content within the acceptance of familiarizing ourselves with that experience, or critics assessing within limited means, what is actually possible to know?
What if your next door neighbor had the same ability? Would you consider him or her, a god or ask him or her to be shown what IS obviously a gift?
Think simply. Think practically. Eliminate implication. What could you stand to lose if you dive into knowing what you already possess? Cynicism, criticism, loss of structured, "ordained" belief?
What is bigger for you? A historical belief or a fresh experience with no financial cost? What kind of appreciation about something so easy to take for granted, could draw attention…idealistic behavior modification or a simple experience of knowing something innate and beautiful?
Think about it. If it were your next door neighbor and his or her suggestion for your benefit seemed odd at first, would it possibly seem practical to accept his or her showing you? Weigh the benefits contrasted to any possible detriment.
Is there ANYTHING in life that purely has NO detriment, no 'downside'? Maybe this one thing, this one gift, comes exclusively as a benefit…the only mechanism for knowing, being each component is literally alive -absent of imagination.


18 years ago, in 1996, Dragons of the North, Norwegian Einherjer's debut album, was one of the albums that viking metal was built on, yet without ever getting the band the same recognition as many of the later entrants into the genre. In 2011 the trio re-emerged with the critically split received Norrøn album, which showed a far less accessible side to the band, causing many fans to approach the band more warily than in the past. Now their sixth full-length album Av oss, for oss has landed and there was much anticipation for which direction the band had opted for, a continuation down the bulky, almost progressive path or a return to what made them the highly influential band in the past.
And Av oss, for oss indeed did away with almost all of the progressiveness and even appears simplistic at first, potentially making the first impression a little awkward and depending on the expectations potentially also somewhat disappointing. After the very moody intro "Fremad", "Hammer i kors" plods on in a straight and simple rhythm, with Frode Glesnes' (or Grimar) gruff voice over it and one might find it a little dry and a little bland maybe. But to write them off just based on that would be a grave mistake, because the devil (or Odin) is in the details and there are little melodies and touches that reveal themselves, if you pay closer attention and suddenly make this album far more than just another bland viking metal album.
And if you think that an almost fully straight plodding track is boring or can't get you moving, "Nidstong" is the maybe simplest song overall, but very efficient, just like "Hedensk oppstandelse", which is one of the prime examples of these little viking metal melodies and chants sneaking in and really helping the songs forward. And this shows the experience these three gentlemen have, they do not need any flashy elements or folk instruments to get their songs to work.
But there is one more… The title track "Av oss, for oss"… At over 10 minutes of playing time, it evokes images of the bulkiness of "Norrøn Kraft", but instead it is the overall maybe most epic and atmospheric song Einherjer have ever written. Moving between epic slowness and mid-tempo, it lets many instrumental passages breathe and exude this dark and epic atmosphere that permeates the song, a grand atmosphere and a grand song that is a more than worthy ending to Av oss, for oss!
There are no superfluous elements or passages on Av oss, for oss, instead it shows a battle-hardened band of veterans that know exactly what they need to do to make a song efficient, striking the right balance between heaviness and atmosphere, with great melodies, some of which are obvious, some less so. If you give the album just a little more attention than usual, it will reveal itself as an outstanding viking metal album that will not dazzle you with its flashiness, but inevitably draw you in deeper and deeper. Great work.
This entry was posted in Featured Review, Reviews and tagged 2014, 9, einherjer, Indie Recordings, norway, viking metal.