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The Balance Small Business
Sustainable Businesses
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Business Law & Taxes
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Business Law & Taxes Deductions & Credits
What Is Net Operating Loss (NOL)?
Net Operating Loss Explained
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Definition of Net Operating Loss
How Net Operating Losses Work
Carrying Forward Excess NOL
Calculate and Report an NOL
Jean Murray
Jean Murray, MBA, Ph.D., is an experienced business writer and teacher. She has taught at business and professional schools for over 35 years and written for The Balance SMB on U.S. business law and taxes since 2008.
A net operating loss (NOL) occurs when a business owner or individual has more allowable tax deductions than taxable income. In other words, the business has a negative income. A business owner may be able to take NOL and move it to future tax years in which it had a profit, reducing its tax burden.
Learn how to calculate net operating loss and how it affects your business and personal tax situation.
Definition and Example of Net Operating Loss
A net operating loss (NOL) is a situation in which the annual tax deductions of a business or other entity are worth more than the owner's adjusted gross income (AGI) on their personal tax return. The owner may be able to use this loss to offset other income on their personal tax return, reducing the owner's total tax bill.
Instead of taking all of the NOL deduction on the year of the loss, a business may carry some of those deductions forward to years when it has a profit, effectively decreasing its tax bill in those years.
Net operating losses are losses on business operations. Capital gains and losses on capital assets and investments are calculated and taxed using a different process.
Who Can Take Deductions on a Net Operating Loss?
A business, individual, estate, or trust can have an NOL, but a loss from operating a business is the most common reason for it. Sole proprietors and single-member LLC owners can take an NOL. Partnerships, S corporations, and LLCs taxed as partnerships can't take an NOL, but the partners, LLC owners, or S corporation owners can take a loss on their share of the total business loss.
Corporations can also have a net operating loss, but this loss doesn't affect individual owners (shareholders).
What's the Calculation for Net Operating Loss?
To calculate your net operating loss, subtract your deductions, either the standard deduction for your filing status or itemized deductions, from your AGI.
Example of a Net Operating Loss
Here's an oversimplified example of an NOL for a sole proprietor:
An individual taxpayer takes the standard deduction of $12,400 and has an AGI of $11,000, including wages from a part-time job, interest income, and a business loss. The person has a preliminary net operating loss of $1,400, but they will have to adjust the amount of the loss for some disallowed deductions.
Most net operating losses are related to business losses. To take the loss, you must include it on your personal tax return, along with other deductions, credits, and income.
While different entities can claim an NOL, there are limitations on the types of deductions that can be factored into the equation. To calculate the amount of an NOL, you can use some nonbusiness deductions, including:
Contributions to an individual retirement account (IRA) or self-employed retirement
Your work as an employee
Losses due to casualties or theft
Certain types of losses and deductions aren't allowed when calculating NOL, including:
Capital losses (from investments or sale of business assets) in excess of capital gains
Gains excluded from the sale of small business stock
Nonbusiness losses
Section 199A (Qualified Business Income) deduction
Carrying Forward Excess Net Operating Loss
Tax laws limit the amount of net operating loss you can take in any one year. But If you had an NOL in any one year that exceeds the limit, you may be able to take that deduction in future years when you have a profit. This process is called a tax loss carryforward. There are specific rules for calculating the amount of allowable loss.
The 2020 CARES Act temporarily allowed loss carrybacks and 100% NOL deductions for the 2018, 2019, and 2020 tax years. The provisions of this law ended December 31, 2020.
Calculating and Reporting a Net Operating Loss
To calculate and report NOL, here are some key steps to follow:
Begin by completing your tax return for the year, including your business income or loss.
Use the calculation above to get a tentative calculation for NOL.
Check to see if you have a net operating loss. You can use the worksheet o page 3 of IRS Publication 536 Net Operating Losses to see the steps in this process.
Decide if you have an excess loss that can't be taken totally in a year, or if you want to carry a part of the NOL over to a future year, and how to calculate the carryforward amount.
Report the NOL deduction amount from your business on the "Other Income" line of Schedule 1 (for Form 1040). If you are claiming a carryforward, enter the NOL deduction as a negative amount. For carryforwards, you must also attach a statement describing all the important facts about the NOL, including how you calculated the deduction.
Getting Help With NOL
The process of determining, calculating, and carrying over an NOL is complicated. The IRS has limits and restrictions on this process and the amounts you can carry forward and the calculations are daunting. Get the help of a tax professional if you think you have an NOL and you want to use it to reduce taxes.
A net operating loss occurs when a small business's tax deductions are higher than its adjusted gross income.
Business owners, estates, and trusts can claim a net operating loss.
While the business may have a net operating loss, it's the owner who takes the loss for the year on their personal tax return.
Net operating losses may be limited in one tax year, but losses in excess of the limits for a year may be carried forward to offset gains in future years.
What is the formula to calculate net operating loss?
The basic formula for calculating net operating losses for an individual taxpayer is to subtract the total tax deductions for the year, including the standard deduction, from adjusted gross income. But the actual calculation is much more complicated. Some types of deductions are not allowed, including:
Losses on the sale of capital assets (like buildings, equipment, and vehicles) that are more than capital gains on those assets
Exclusions from gains on qualified small business stock
nonbusiness deductions greater than nonbusiness income
The section 199A deduction for qualified business income
The NOL deduction itself
IRS Publication 526: Net Operating Losses has a worksheet on page 3 that takes you line by line through the process of calculating net operating losses for a specific tax year.
Are net operating losses bad?
Certainly, a business loss isn't as good as a profit, but you can use a loss to offset other income on your tax return. A net operating loss in one year may be limited, but the IRS allows businesses to move these losses to offset gains (profits) in later years, through a process called loss carryforward. Because business profits and losses fluctuate from year to year, this process can help you even out taxable income over several years.
For example, you could have a loss of $100,000 in one year and carry that loss over to several future profitable years to reduce your taxes in each of those years until the full amount of the loss has been taken.
How many years can NOLs be carried back?
Effective with the 2021 tax year, you can no longer carry back a loss from one year to a previous year. But you can carry a loss forward to later years. Net operating losses may be carried forward indefinitely, but deductions are limited to 80% of taxable income.
IRS. "Publication 536 Net Operating Losses (NOLs) for Individuals, Estates, and Trusts." Page 2, Accessed Sept. 14, 2021.
IRS. "Publication 536 Net Operating Losses (NOLs) for Individuals, Estates, and Trusts." Page 4. Accessed Sept. 29, 2021.
IRS. "Net Operating Loss." Accessed Sept. 29, 2021.
Tax Foundation. "Net Operating Loss Carryforward." Accessed Sept. 29, 2021.
Tax Loss Carryforward Explained
How the IRS Decides If Your Hobby Is a Real Business
Claiming Business Losses on Your Tax Return
How To Pay Airbnb Host Taxes
How To Get a Qualified Business Income Deduction
Deducting Business Interest Expenses on Your Taxes
Learn About Corporate Tax Rates and How to Calculate What You Owe
Can My Small Business Benefit from the Trump Tax Cuts?
Accelerated Depreciation for Business Tax Savings
Schedule E for Supplemental Income and Loss Explained
Depreciation Definition and Calculation Methods
Learn When to Best Use a Business Loss on Your Canadian Taxes
How To Calculate Depreciation
What Is the Difference Between Net Income, Earnings, and Profit
How Does Self-Employment Affect Social Security Benefits?
Step by Step Instructions for Schedule C for Small Business Taxes
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MN Supreme Court tosses prenup signed under wedding pressure
Bob Collins May 30, 2018, 10:41 AM May 30, 2018
The Minnesota Supreme Court on Wednesday settled Kremer vs. Kremer, the messy divorce case I wrote about in January 2017, a somewhat mysterious case about a man who secretly had an antenuptial agreement drawn up in the days before he and his wife's destination wedding in the Cayman Islands, then gave it to his bride-to-be two days before the wedding. Who could possibly have predicted love wouldn't last?
She worked some part-time jobs while he worked the farm which came to be worth a fortune. When she filed for divorce, she argued the prenup was invalid because it was signed under duress.
The Minnesota Court of Appeals found that Robbie Kremer "intentionally 'used the wedding deadline to create an atmosphere of pressure' under which Michelle was 'pressured/coerced' into signing the Agreement."
Today, a divided Minnesota Supreme Court agreed.
The couple's deal waived any spousal maintenance or alimony, a "one sided" proposition, Justice David Lillehaug wrote on behalf of the majority.
Here, Robbie came into the relationship with significant assets which increased in value over the course of the marriage, and Michelle came into the marriage with very little. If the Agreement were enforced, she would leave the marriage with very little.
Yet Michelle contributed to Robbie's farm operation throughout the marriage, maintained the household, and cared for the couple's child. We cannot conclude that the consideration Michelle received for executing this Agreement was anywhere near adequate.
Lillehaug said Robbie intentionally created a situation where Michelle was coerced into signing the agreement. All of their family and friends had booked flights to the Cayman Islands, and she wasn't able to get proper counsel before joining them. So she signed.
In his dissent, Justice G. Barry Anderson said the district court did not find that Michelle signed under duress.
"The district court found that Robbie intended to create that effect," he wrote. "But the district court did not find that Michelle's will was actually overborne by the circumstances Robbie created. Rather, the district court found that Michelle did not have 'an adequate opportunity to negotiate any of the terms of the . . . agreement.'"
An earlier dissent by a Court of Appeals judges said the ruling would invalidate the very reason there are such agreements in the first place.
‹ Older Stranger delivers 4,000 km birthday present, just because
Newer › Theft of the blog: Summer edition
Good night and good news
Storytime with Bob: A treat outside of the blog

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Fresh Strawberry Lemonade Cake with creamy lemon cream cheese frosting. Our favorite cake for summer!
Say hello to my birthday cake.
Fresh, zingy, berry-packed and oh so moist and tender. My birthday is just a few weeks away, and I'm so excited to make this cake… Again.
Some might say it's a travesty to bake your own birthday cake. There are years I agree. Those years Lt. Dan picks up a chocolate fudge cake I love from a local bakery.
However some years, I feel like there is no one in the world that understands my cakey desires better than I do. So I set off to bake exactly what I'm craving.
This is that year. This is that cake.
Introducing Fresh Strawberry Lemonade Cake. A blend of light buttery cake, fresh lemon zest, bright strawberry essence, and blushing berries hiding between the layers.
The entire cake is slathered with silky smooth lemon cream cheese frosting. Then I spread on a fun hombre frosting effect with a little pink frosting.
Viola! The perfect cake for a summer birthday.
My Fresh Strawberry Lemonade Cake recipe offers the appeal of an ultra moist southern strawberry cake, with a little extra punch from the lemon. The fresh strawberries between the cake layers are a sweet surprise when you cut it open.
I like to make the cake the day before my birthday, then wrap and freeze the cake layers. The next day, I frost the cake in the morning and let it sit out all day to thaw and soften.
This technique helps ward off broken cake layers, slanted cakes, and crumbs in the frosting. Frozen cake layers are extremely easy to work with.
The cake looks prefect every time and no one can tell it's been frozen.
If you've got a special summer birthday to celebrate, give my Fresh Strawberry Lemonade Cake a try!
Fresh Strawberry Lemonade Cake Recipe - A moist tender layer cake with fresh summer strawberries hiding in the middle, topped with lemon cream cheese frosting!
Preheat the oven to 350 degrees F. Line two 9-inch cake pans with parchment paper circles then spray with nonstick cooking spray.
In the bowl of an electric stand mixer, cream the sugar and butter on high until light and fluffy, 3-5 minutes. Scrape the bowl with a spatula. Turn the mixer on low and add in the baking powder, salt, eggs, strawberry and vanilla extracts, and lemon zest. Scrape the bowl again and slowly beat in the flour and milk. Mix in food coloring if desired.
In a clean mixing bowl, beat the cream cheese until light and fluffy. Scrape the bowl and beat in the butter. (Do this separately to avoid clumps.) Turn the mixer on low and slowly add the lemon juice. One cup at a time, beat in the powdered sugar, until you reach your desired consistency. Scrape the bowl and beat again until very smooth.
Place one cake layer on a cake stand. Spread frosting over the cake in a thin layer. Press the strawberries, trimmed side down, over the surface of the cake Then slather more frosting over the berries, filling the spaces in between. Set the top cake layer over the strawberries and press to level. Dollop frosting over the top and spread in out and down over the sides.
Leave 1/2+ cup frosting in the mixing bowl. Add 1-3 drop red food coloring into the frosting and beat until the color is consistent. Starting at the bottom, spread the frosting around the edges. Then move upward in sweeping motions. Spread a little pink over the top if desired.
Bakers Tip: The easiest way to level and frost a cake is to take the time to freeze the cake layers first. Wrap each layer in plastic and freeze fore at least 2 hours. Then stack, level, and frost the cake as directed. Set the cake out on the counter for another 2-3 hours to thaw and soften. This helps ward off broken cake layers, slanted cakes, and crumbs in the frosting. This cake can sit out at room temperature, covered, for up to 3 days.
Girl! You are my hero. I make cake for our monthly birthday party at work. They ate this thing in less than 15 minutes and someone grabbed the cake platter to get the leftover icing!
I decided to add a touch of lemon extract to the batter, but otherwise the props are all yours!
We hardly find any person who doesn't love a cake. We can make a Strawberry Lemonade Cake to a dinner party and everyone will surely love it. It will be the perfect ending to our dinner.
This sounded so good that I made it for my son's birthday yesterday. Oh my!! He declared it the best birthday cake ever! The cake itself is incredible with plenty of tang from the fresh lemons complemented by the layer of sweet strawberries inside. I couldn't find small strawberries so I just sliced the big ones I had and layered them in the middle. The frosting was incredible too! So easy and there was plenty of it. Thank you!
What a great summer cake!
HI, it doesn't say what to do with the strawberries , do you cut them small or crush them?
This cake looks like summer. I cannot wait to make it. My birthday was this month and so was my husbands. I think I will make one even though the dates have pasted. It will be happy birthday to us.
So perfect for summer! Love!!
It's hot today, so this looks good.


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Guam sailor found innocent in baby's death
Greg Tyler
• • April 16, 2004
A military panel at U.S. Naval Forces, Marianas, Guam, on Tuesday found a sailor innocent of murder in connection with the death of his infant son.
The court-martial panel of Navy personnel heard closing arguments Tuesday against Petty Officer 2nd Class Anthony Shepherd, accused of murdering his 1-month-old son, Jonathan Aidan Shepherd, by shaking him to death. The baby died Sept. 22 at U.S. Naval Hospital Guam. Uniform Code of Military Justice charges against Shepherd were filed Sept. 29; his court-martial began April 7.
Shepherd, 27, an aviation machinist mate assigned to the Marianas Training Office, was released after the verdict was read, said base spokeswoman Lt. Arwen E. Consaul, who attended the court-martial.
The defendant didn't testify; his former wife Candice Shepherd, family members, other military personnel and physicians took the stand.
Doctors testified the baby died from repeated shakes that caused the veins in his brain and eyes to rupture but said they could not determine who caused the fatal injury, Consaul explained.
Lt. Casey Self, a hospital doctor, said when a baby is shaken to death, the murderer "doesn't leave fingerprints," Consaul said Wednesday, recalling the physician's testimony.
According to Consaul, Shepherd's defense attorneys, Lt. Randy Vavra from Sasebo Naval Base, Japan, and Lt. Andy House said the charges against Shepherd were "speculation" and the result of "a rush to judgment."
The prosecutors, Lt. Christopher V. Phan from Yokosuka Naval Base, Japan, and Lt. Joseph Judkins, said during closing arguments that Shepherd had a history of anger-management issues, the spokeswoman noted.
She said Vavra made the point Tuesday that there could have been other suspects. The defense also pointed to the investigation by the Navy Criminal Investigative Service as lacking thoroughness, based largely on the mother's accusation.
The spokeswoman said House argued that "it's just speculation" by prosecutors, "it's just their opinion."
Consaul said that "especially after the doctor's testimony ... It was a very emotional setting for all of us yesterday" — including Shepherd, who was "wiping his eyes" as he sat between his attorneys and listened to arguments.


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A Conversation on the Bleaching of Techno: How Appropriation is Normalized and Preserved
This Conversation between Axmed Maxamed and Mathys Rennela took place in November 2019
Pictured above: Radio Noet Noet
As friends who have known each other for years and bonded through electronic music, We have had many conversations about our experiences with racism in Amsterdam's dance music scene, and decided recently to write down some of our most regular grievances. The following conversation took place before the on-going wave of protests, and in spite of the recent reckoning with anti-Black racism of a lot of white actors in the scene, the challenges and issues mentioned are still very relevant. Although the Dutch scene is the primary focus of this discussion, similar dynamics can be observed all across the world.
Axmed: Cultural appropriation, artists using 'Black names' and appropriating Black cultures, stories of outright and endemic racism within the dance music scenes, … those are topics that we've discussed a lot in the past few years.
Mathys: When it comes to music circles, it goes much further than cultural appropriation. Especially when there is so much musical production which comes from the continent of Africa and also from the diaspora and people of colour in general. So many traditions and musical work are just completely taken over and whitewashed by the industry. For some white artists, it is really about adopting a Black artistic identity, which I find really really interesting. I was at Dekmantel last year and I think it was Friday or Saturday…
Axmed: I remember you mentioning it.
Mathys: Yes! I remember how excited I was to see some of the artists from the African continent on the line-up, such as Ugandan Methods and there was also a duo named after an island in the Pacific.
Axmed: Nu Guinea
Mathys: That's the name. So I was excited to see them, but then when I turned up I saw that both duos were white guys. Then when I shared my surprise on Twitter a lot of PoC were especially surprised about Ugandan Methods. I checked more of the artists and I was really surprised when I realised that Kamaal Williams is not Black. If you hear the name Kamaal Williams, you automatically make the connection with Black America, especially in combination with his music.
Axmed: And in addition to that, he has a label called Black Focus Records and when I saw that, I thought 'what is going on here?'. I know that he chose the name Kamaal when he converted to Islam, not sure where Williams came from and he then started using Arabic letters in artworks, for example for his label.
Mathys: I really wonder what is the real motivation behind adopting a Black identity. As a dj you already have access to records by Black artists and you can make a career, like a lot of people have done, just by playing music from the African continent or Carribean music. So I wonder what the incentive is to adapt a Black identity. To me, it's really similar to the 'sex sells' trend in EDM, where attractive and barely-clothed women are used to advertise for parties and festivals, as it is culturally accepted that the two are related. The episode of the Code Switch podcast 'Give it up for dj blackface' discusses the fact that House & Techno originated from Black artists and that adopting a Black identity creates legitimacy. However, the whitewashing process of House and Techno has been fully completed. As they also mentioned in the podcast, if you ask the average white European about the history of House or Techno they are more likely to say Daft Punk than Jeff Mills.
Axmed: Yes the 'bleaching' of House & Techno has definitely been completed and not only white people think it is music that has always been white, but even Black people believe it. The history has been deeply erased even though it is relatively recent. I remember the reaction of a lot of people who are not involved within dance music when Black Queer & Trans Resistance NL shared the Code Switch episode you mentioned.
Mathys: Although, adopting Black identities to gain some legitimacy is far from a recent phenomenon. A good example is Italo Disco. To gain more legitimacy bands like Change consisted of entirely Black vocalists and dancers, in spite of having white producers. You can argue that it was important for marketing purposes to feature predominantly Black faces. Even Luther Vandross was part of this band for a short period. And it is not a surprise that the beginning of Italo Disco coincided with disco being 'outlawed' in the US, with anti-disco events such as the Disco Demolition Night on July 12, 1979, at Comiskey Park in Chicago. This anti-disco movement was a real whitelash, led by cishet white people against the growth of music genres pioneered by queer communities of color.
Axmed: Yes and this was part of the rise of Eurodisco and what was also called 'post disco' and bands such as Boney M came out of, which is also a project of a white producer while all the band members were Black. It's a whole different discussion but it's worth pointing out how disposable a lot of the Black band members were. Fundamentally, it was a white person calling all the shots.
Mathys: For a long time rap, especially gangsta rap, was music that could only be made by Black artists, then it was marketed to a larger (predominantly white) audience, with the rise of white rappers such as Eminem and now the genre is partially disconnected from the socio-ethnic background it originated in. I feel like in dance music, we reached a point where it has been so white washed that it shouldn't be necessary anymore for white artists to adopt a Black identity. So I feel that it is not just about marketing and credibility anymore, it is also about making a statement.
Axmed: Interesting that you say that, because then the question is, what is the statement exactly? I honestly think that you are giving some of the artists too much credit in thinking that they put a lot of thought in their use of Black identities. I'd argue that it is more about white artists seeing the world as their playing field and not caring about the consequences and the impact of their choices on Black and brown artists and partygoers. When it comes down to it, it is about the scene not caring about Black people, which is of course a product of the society we live in.
In addition to that, there are still ways that adopting Black identity is a selling point. A good example of that in the Netherlands is Beesmunt Soundsystem, who used the name Tanzania Soundsystem for one of their releases, along with Swahili words and phrases for the track titles:
Msichana = Girl
Mdomo = Mouth or lips
Ngono Kijiji = Sex in the village
Upotofu = Immoral or shameful
One of the tracks uses Maasai singing and the others are 'remixes' of classics by Tanzanian rumba bands such as Juwata Jazz Band, whose members are still alive as far as I know… Were they paid? In the press release, Highlife [label] doesn't link the release to Beesmunt Soundsystem, but instead refer to 'the mysterious Tanzania Sound System'. The cover picture is two unrecognizable Black figures in traditional clothing and the Tanzanian flag.
This is also related to 'the diggers scene' where mostly white djs and label owners want to be the first one to 'discover' music from 'far lands', taking away people's cultures without understanding the meaning behind the music, and marketing it to mostly white audiences. And of course they benefit from it as well. We were for example talking recently about Awesome Tapes From Africa.
Mathys: It's in a way a reflection of neocolonialism. When people think about music from the African continent which is actually interesting in the context of dance music, they do not think about all the new up-and-coming South African musicians, all the innovations in the Nigerian scene, etc… They have a certain idea of what "African music" is supposed to sound like, and this goes through the white gaze: it has to sound authentic, low-tech, and if there's any tech involved, it has to be salvaged. It has to convey the idea that someone made the music out of nowhere, in their village or in the bushes, with little resources, and their music was lost and found by a white European.
Awesome Tapes From Africa isn't just a guy who went to a record store and found some African music. He has an academic background which gives him some legitimacy. This isn't just about the music but also about the story, and this is what a neocolonial approach looks and sounds like. A label locally run would be much more ethical, without as much focus on this neocolonial narrative of "discovering" gems, whose value was underestimated before they were "re-discovered" by a white man. There's nothing that people love more than a good story of a lost record being found. But in practice there aren't many of such stories.
Axmed: I think it also has to with entitlement, because why is there focus on that one artist who can not be found or ones who want nothing to do with the music industry, for personal reasons. Instead of respecting that, a lot of energy is spent into convincing and coercing them. So in some cases it is not about the artist but the white label owner or white music journalist demanding a product that has a 'great story' attached to it. And let's not forget about the colonial history which white artists knowingly or unknowingly benefit from, which makes it problematic on a whole nother level.
Mathys: Some of the appeal for African and Caribbean music comes from its exoticism, and it tends to be taken out of context and seen through a white gaze. Musicians from the African continent or the Caribbean Islands often feel restrained in the expression of their art. Their music is really defined by the way it is consumed in the Western world, which is mostly without any context.
"Selectors" rarely engage with the culture. I see this with French Caribbean music, which becomes increasingly popular in its instrumental form (without lyrics). I remember hearing a song in French Creole about Caribbean pride at a festival. It was a weird experience to hear a song about self-determination, with lyrics explicitly inviting to "free oneself from the white man", being played by a white DJ to a very predominantly white crowd. I remember being confused to hear this song so full of rage and sadness being played in such a "joyful" way. Some DJs actually take the time to learn about the context of the music they play and really reflect about their praxis, especially when they accept to be held accountable for their mistakes. But it is certainly not the norm.
Unfortunately, a lot of DJs refuse to take constructive criticism from their peers or from their public, and instead really engage in performative allyship: appearing at protests for selfies, making statements on social media in support of some communities without committing to help out its members within the scene, taking up space in activist circles without acknowledging people who actually put in the hard work, etc. There are ethical ways to engage with the music, and it is up to DJs to go through the process of finding their own work ethics. It's about being self-conscious about what you're playing.
Axmed: The most common reaction to the type of criticism that you're mentioning is often "So I'm not allowed to play music anymore?" It sometimes triggers aggressive and even violent reactions, when it's really not what the criticism is about. It's not unreasonable for people to expect you to be Black or from the African continent, if you're using a name which suggests that it is the case. Taking again the example of Awesome Tapes from Africa: he's been aware of the criticism for years; criticised on social media for having this name while not being African, his snarky answer was "I'm not a tape either". He's someone who understands the dynamics and the criticism, but still chooses to not answer for it.
When artists reach a certain level, they are sort of untouchable, or at least they feel like they don't have to explain themselves anymore. This happens for example with Cairo Liberation Front. It was highly problematic for two white guys to use that name but they reached a point where their parties were sold out. Nowadays, they do book artists of Arab descent but they started in a very problematic way: defending the name, having belly dancers on stage and exploiting stereotypes about the Arab world, initially calling themselves "Nobody beats the Dürüm". They never publicly addressed this past behaviour, and by not acknowledging the fact that it was wrong, they opened the door to other collectives to adopt similar problematic approaches.
Mathys: I feel that when you have a certain project, on which you've worked for years, even if it starts a problematic way, even if the criticism only arises as a byproduct of commercial success, it is important to reflect on your project's past and think about the message that you're trying to convey. And it has to be a very personal answer.
Axmed: Some of those projects started very small, but before you know it, end up at big festivals. Radio Noet Noet for example, an all-white DJ collective which focused on music from the African continent and engaged in cultural appropriation, was never held accountable by Dutch music journalists, nor by the Black people around them. It's a project which did not need to be well thought through for it to be successful.
Mathys: And because those projects are not well thought through, they are prone to biases. They ultimately gain some legitimacy through some association with people of color. Which makes it harder to criticise them, because there are so few spaces which actively welcome people of color as music creators within the dance music scene. It's a perverse tactic that shields them from accountability, by pitting the people of color who criticise them with the people of color they "help". One pernicious consequence of this is that the white people who pursue these projects end up being idolised and in leadership positions in communities of color that they are not part of. From that point, there is no space to unlearn problematic behaviours.
One of the issues is that the desire to change has to come from a place of actually caring without being forced to. Take for example the producer Thug Entrancer who is probably the only example I know of a DJ with a problematic name who decided to drop it on his own, after reading a VICE article about white producers co-opting Black culture. Later, in an interview, he mentioned that no one actively asked him to change his name, but he noticed that some people were uncomfortable with it, and that was enough to push him to change.
Situations where there is no accountability open the door for more problematic behaviours, and this is when "calling out" becomes crucial and inevitable, as a way to move the scene in a direction which suits everyone. Unfortunately, such call outs are often taken too personally: it becomes about egos being bruised, rather than growing as a community.
Axmed: Spaces, resources and communities are limited. There's a lot of energy being put into creating new platforms, especially by queer POC, who continue to be very marginalised within the scene, and end up in unsafe spaces for lack of better options.
In absence of proper accountability, this process, which has been going on for a while, will continue to go on. The people in charge still lack the competences to address this and rely on unpaid labour from marginalised groups. When a controversy pops up within an institution, it is often ignored unless it's too big not to be addressed. Diversifying one's team and engaging with local communities are important ways to cover blind spots but it is also important to recognise the existence of such blind spots. I am at a point where there is no space that I would recommend to POC within the city of Amsterdam, and it is really a shame.
—- We thank Zoë Beery for feedback on an earlier version of this transcript.
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6 thoughts on "A Conversation on the Bleaching of Techno: How Appropriation is Normalized and Preserved"
FriendlyArab says:
Adopting a muslim name after converting to Islam is very common for newcomers to the faith (though not obligatory) and many do so as a sign of respect and as a token of submission to Allah. Saying "if you hear the name Kamaal Williams, you automatically make the connection with Black America" highlights an issue with your thinking, not with Williams himself. It can be very easy to take offence from something that should not be cause for it and devalues your wider thoughts.
musiclov says:
Totally, and "Black Focus" (name of his first album) is because of the ford focus car (you can see it trough the letters in the art cover), also, that was a Yussef Kamaal album, a collaboration with yussef dayes, a black drummer. This "cultural appropriation" has some truth to it, but as always its exaggerated and misunderstood.
Stan Zeff says:
Thanks guys for the great article. As a Black man living in America who is a curator of a brand called Tambor, which is based around African dance music. I see the stealing of our music and culture on a daily basis. And you are so right, that the black people that signs off on the whites using the music for their own benefit legitimize what they do and give them approval to continue what they do. People are afraid to call it out as it may label them as an instigator. Its all very frustrating as I have been working hard on my brand for many years and you see white people take your ideas and leap forward without any acknowledgement of what I have provided to the scene.
hey guys, really enjoyed reading this. sick website! i look forward to reading more
The Uncreated says:
As a Gen-Xer that started listening to techno and House since the early days, this SJW buzzword-laden article gives me cancer and is probably written by a couple kids that weren't even alive when the second wave of techno started out.
This is a very important conversation. As a white DJ I have definitely been guilty of some of the problematic forms of appropriation mentioned here. I recognise the need to both learn from past mistakes and to call out other forms of appropriation rather than let POC doing all the work.
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entertainment / Celebrities and Showbiz
A reunion with Drew and Timothy in 'Santa Clarita's' PH stop
By: Rito P. Asilo - Entertainment Editor
Philippine Daily Inquirer / 01:00 AM March 15, 2018
Drew Barrymore (right) and Timothy Olyphant —RICHARD DELA LLARTE/ NETFLIX
Bad situations bring out the best and worst in people—even in high-profile celebrities like Drew Barrymore and Timothy Olyphant. The Hollywood stars are set to reprise their roles as realtors Joel and Sheila Hammond when the 10-episode second season of Netflix's "Santa Clarita Diet" begins streaming on March 23.
When we learned that Drew and Timothy were scheduled to visit Manila to promote "Santa Clarita Diet," it was hard to contain our excitement—because our first "run-in" with the couple in February last year was nothing short of remarkable.
We love telling (and retelling) how our three-on-one interview with Tim, Drew and "Santa Clarita" showrunner Victor Fresco went during a snowstorm in New York last year, because that meeting demonstrated that not all movie stars are "accessible" only when it's convenient for them.
At the time, our scheduled chat with Dylan Minnette and Katherine Langford (for "13 Reasons Why") before my meeting with the "Santa Clarita" team was slightly delayed because of bad weather, so we couldn't run fast enough to meet Drew and Tim thereafter.
But, Drew, Timothy and Victor patiently waited for us in another room at the Edition Hotel and greeted us with so much warmth, which quickly thawed the wintry air. In fact, when we bade them goodbye after the interview, Drew reached for our hand and hugged us.
Drew and Tim were just as warm when we met them again last Monday, this time at the Fairmont in Makati. "Wait … we met in New York last year, right?" Tim beamed as he shook our hand heartily before he sat beside us for this interview.
In New York, Tim disclosed to us that he lived in the Philippines when he was very young. "My dad was with Del Monte at the time," he said. "My memory of it is vague, but we have photo albums of me and my brothers as infants in Manila."
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So, last Monday, when we asked him what he remembered about his two-year stay in the Philippines in the '70s, Timothy, a descendant of the Vanderbilts of New York, said he recalled having a Filipino nanny.
"I was only 2 years old when I left Davao and flew to Manila," he said. "It's my first time to return to the Philippines after my family relocated to California." (Drew arrived in Manila on Saturday evening, while Tim flew in the following day. They left the country last Tuesday.)
Drew said that she had always wanted to come back after her quick visit to the country in 2016: "I love the Philippines. I was here two years ago for a beauty trip, because I have a makeup brand called Flower Beauty. So, I met some companies and talked about a possible distribution deal with my company. I'm just mad that I haven't gotten to see the beaches, because I'd love to see the island life here. It's supposed to be like paradise."
But, first things first: Timothy and Drew were here to promote Season 2 of "Santa Clarita Diet," where they portray a loving couple whose happy family life is upended when Sheila is turned into a human flesh-nibbling and blood-sucking zombie.
Tim said that the series was a lot more fun to do the second time around: "In the first season, it felt like we tonally hit our 'sweet spot' at midstride, somewhere around episodes three and four. But, this time around, we hit the ground running."
"And there's more energy and synergized teamwork," Drew interjected. "Tim, Liv (Hewson, who plays the Hammonds' headstrong daughter, Abby), Skyler (Gisondo, who portrays Liv's friend, Eric) and I really hit it off. You can always tell if people aren't getting along, or when they're merely 'phoning it in.' We worked well—from 7 a.m. till 11 at night. That's why I feel lucky to get this job, because great gigs like this don't just fall from the sky."
Barrymore with Filipino fans
Drew doesn't just see the show as a fleeting and perfunctory part of the nuts and bolts of her profession as an actress—in fact, when the show was offered to her, she saw it as a form of "feminist rebirth," especially after hurdling a "rough patch" in her four-year marriage to art consultant Will Kopelman, with whom she has two daughters. (Their divorce was finalized on Aug. 3, 2016.)
Drew explained to us, "'Santa Clarita Diet' is about the challenges married people go through. I was at a low point in my life when I read its script, and it made me laugh and feel something. I enjoy telling the story of a married couple who never gives up on each other.
"I like the optimism of a husband and his wife who can make it through [the hard] stuff—I appreciate that. There's diplomacy in Joel and Sheila's love for each other, and they continue to find solutions when they find themselves at opposing sides. I don't want to watch couples fighting on TV, because there's enough of that in real life, thank you."
Is Drew talking about her failed marriage?
"Yes. Entering this show after the loss of a marriage that I thought would last forever was certainly a welcome distraction—and a very good plan that worked wonders," the actress admitted. "I was happy to engage in a show where couples try to make it work, because we all know how difficult marriage is. The last thing I can imagine doing is to sit through a show about divorce—because that's not how I want to spend my free time, especially after having gone through all that myself."
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There's a state of emergency in New York City, where Mayor Bill de Blasio is practically begging residents to get their vaccinations after 285 confirmed cases of measles since the fall.
Why it matters: The world's financial capital has declared a public health emergency in the face of a virus that has a safe and effective vaccine.
"This is the epicenter of a measles outbreak that is very, very troubling and must be dealt with immediately," de Blasio said today. "The measles vaccine works. It is safe, it is effective, it is time-tested."
21 cases have put people in the hospital, including 5 who needed intensive care, the N.Y. Times reports.
"The majority of the cases have been concentrated in Hasidic communities in Williamsburg and Borough Park, Brooklyn."
The big picture: National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases director Anthony Fauci just last month told Axios the current outbreak of measles would "certainly" overtake all of last year's cases, and he was right.
The CDC reported 465 cases as of April 4, compared with 372 for all of 2018 — with 78 cases in the last week.
Outbreaks have been reported in New York City, Washington State, Texas, Illinois and California.
What's next: New York is threatening fines of up to $1,000 on individuals in certain areas who don't get their kids vaccinated.
The bottom line: The spread of measles can be controlled if enough people are vaccinated. The World Health Organization says the magic number is between 93%–95% of people.


With all those videos circulating on the net, you shouldn't be wondering why such a large number of Russian drivers and fellow motorists from neighboring countries opt to use dashboard-mounted cameras, but if you must, here's another example of why they do.
The driver of the camera-equipped car was getting ready to turn left at the same time that another motorist in a Dacia Duster in front of him was doing the same.
Hat tip to Bahit K.!
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What you need to know about cloud standards
Image: © Thitichaya/Stock.adobe.com
Forrester's Tracy Woo discusses the importance of standards when building a cloud strategy and the key points leaders need to consider.
Cloud platforms are becoming the default choice for digital delivery and, for today's enterprise, there is little question of whether or not to have a cloud strategy.
Public and private companies recognise that it is a necessary component of staying competitive, with cloud platforms providing access to flexible capacity terms and lowering barriers to innovation.
However, the fast pace of change in technologies also brings its challenges. Cloud platforms are proprietary and opinionated, which can make migration, portability and integration extremely difficult. Users can find themselves at the mercy of vendor lock-in, cost increases, and incomplete security practices.
Why are standards important?
As enterprises scale their usage, standards become a more prominent issue. They can reduce friction and risk for companies with large or complex operations. Similarly, if a company is using a cloud provider, it can ensure that its security capabilities are compatible to work together.
Mature industries, where standards compliance may be a deciding factor, will be seeking familiar assurance, while organisations starting digitally led initiatives with a long-term horizon will find that standards adherence is an important factor in decision-making.
Understanding the key issues behind cloud standards can provide assurance, helping professionals to evaluate options and plan with confidence. Here are three key points to consider when it comes to cloud standards.
Formal cloud standards are still evolving
Cloud standards support a range of goals. Common goals for cloud standards include portability, migration, and security. They also enable interoperability across multiple platforms, balance workloads and underpin security and data protection.
Security and assurance standards are a significant force in cloud computing when it comes to these kinds of objectives, but products and vendors are still fiercely innovating and standards won't emerge until their technologies stabilise.
Understand the players and motivations
All standards organisations have a business model, including non-profits. Even open source doesn't mean it isn't commercially driven. Vendors will often support or propose standards to support their commercial objectives. So, to understand cloud standards, it is important to know who benefits.
Hundreds of international standards organisations exist. The most important and best known is ISO, founded in 1946 by delegates from 25 countries. Others include IEC (a peer organisation), ITUT (the International Telecommunication Union Telecommunication Standardisation Sector) and ANSI (the American National Standards Institute).
Standards fall on a spectrum between de facto and de jure. De facto standards aren't formalised. Rather, they're broadly accepted practices or products. Microsoft Windows is frequently described as a de facto standard, as it represents the vast majority of installed PC operating systems. For cloud, the Amazon Web Services (AWS) APIs are the leading de facto standard. For example, various storage providers support Amazon S3 APIs.
Conversely, a de jure standard is formally defined and governed and, in the strictest sense, ISO and its affiliates own this category. Sometimes, standards follow a natural progression from de facto to de jure, starting off as informal and then becoming refined through a series of steps culminating in ISO acceptance.
The open source/open standards axis is key
Open standards and open source aren't the same – though they may overlap in some cases – and they have a complex interdependency in cloud computing.
Open standards are formalised protocols, accepted by multiple parties as a basis for joint (usually commercial) action, usually under the jurisdiction of some governing authority. They may have multiple implementations or different ways of achieving the same outcome.
By contrast, open source is software that's free to use and consume. It's usually based on a common code base but may have multiple distributions, such as Linux with CentOs vs Debian. Open sources and open standards can overlap when the open-source product is so dominant that it becomes a de facto standard (eg Linux).
In many cases, the world of open source, standards, and de facto options from major commercial products bleed together. To understand where open standards may end up, stay tuned to current cloud open-source activities.
Plan for now and track the changes
The most important class of cloud standards, with the clearest evidence of broad adoption, are the security standards.
Meanwhile, interoperability standards are rarely essential to cloud purchasing decisions, though most companies look to future-proof their technology decisions. Portability enables the flexibility to switching deployment models (private or public cloud), lean more heavily to the edge, or prepare for future business initiatives.
So, while standards evolve, enterprises might explore containers and strategically decide whether speed or flexibility is of higher value for that particular workload.
The important thing is to build a plan for now and keep track of developing cloud standards and open-source initiatives. Today's beta projects may well become the foundation for tomorrow's cloud API standards.
By Tracy Woo
Tracy Woo is a senior analyst at Forrester, advising infrastructure and operations clients on cloud computing strategies.
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The (Single) Origin Story
At Grounds for Empowerment, you will often hear us talking about "origin" a lot. As in, "We're going to Origin." In the beverage world, you are also likely to hear the term "single" thrown around. As in, Single Malt Scotch, or Single Vineyard Wine. We can't speak to alcoholic beverages, but when it comes to coffee, our farmers' coffee, we don't throw the term "single origin" around lightly. Yes, there's a lot of trendiness afoot in marketing (especially when it comes to appealing to the conscious consumer), but words have meaning. These words have meaning. And we want to be sure that these words are meaningful to you.
So, what's the (single) origin story?
Ivania Calderon and GFE advisor Marjorie Canjura at Finca Alborada overseeing the washing station
Well, just like any origin story—from the Earth to the Green Lantern— "origin" is where it all begins. At the roots, of our families' histories and our families' farms. Quite simply, in our world, "origin" means the farm, be that Finca San Antonio, Finca El Oasis, or Finca Alborada. "Origin" is where the beans are planted, grown, and harvested. It's where generations have passed, struggles have been fought (some lost, some won), where the children have been raised, where lessons have been learned. Origin is the beginning. Origin is everything.
Single Origin Coffee is one farm's history in a one-pound bag. No one else's.
So, if you're buying a bag of Finca El Oasis coffee, you're only getting beans harvested from plants that Ramona Diaz and her husband, love, and greatest partner grew in San Juan de Rio Coco, Nicaragua. If you're buying a bag of Finca San Antonio coffee, you're only getting beans harvested from plants that Alexa Marin grew, alongside the ghost of her fearless mother, in Dipilito, Nicaragua. And, if you're buying a bag of Finca Alborado coffee, you're only getting beans harvested from plants that Ivania Calderon grew while working at the coop, her mother managing the farm in Wiwili de Jinotega (returning the favor of Ivania's hard work on the farm as a child).
Because each bag of Grounds for Empowerment coffee is single origin, it has a flavor as distinct as its history. Coffee from Ivania's Finca Alborada have a cherry and nutty flavor profile. Coffee from Ramona's Finca El Oasis have hints of dark chocolate and vanilla. And beans from Alexa's Finca San Antonio taste of honey and cocoa.
In our modern, mechanized, mass-produced world, "single origin" is more than a buzz word, it's an invitation into a family's past, and a promise of its future.
Written by GFE Advisor Amanda Avutu
Click here to try GFE coffee and click here to learn more about our farmers
Grounds for Empowerment February 19, 2019 Comment
Coffee Fact Friday: How does altitude affect taste?


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Sudbury 'a tale of a split city' for its young people
Lower costs good for young people here, but economy weaker for those 15 to 29, report finds
Jim Moodie The Sudbury Star
Published on: February 6, 2019 | Last Updated: February 6, 2019 12:49 AM EST
A sign advertising for help at a business in the Tri-Region. Photo by Evan J. Pretzer Rep/Ex Staff
Sudbury is among the best cities in Canada for young people to live and work, according to a new report.
The inaugural Urban Work Index, funded by RBC Future Launch, places the Nickel City in the top fifth of centres analyzed by a Toronto-based think tank.
YouthfulCities — which describes itself as a "social venture focusing on urban research and programming for youth" — ranks Sudbury fourth out of 21 communities in terms of opportunities for workers aged 15 to 29.
The best city overall is Edmonton, according to the study, followed by Montreal and Ottawa.
Rather than simply compare rates of unemployment, the study looks at a wide range of factors influencing youth success, including access to education, cost of living, and programs for entrepreneurs.
Sudbury jumped into the top echelon largely due to its cheaper rents, as well as lower costs for transit and recreation, but could do much more to inspire and support its entrepreneurs and startups.
"Sudbury's performance is a tale of a split city," the report notes. "On the one hand, it does very well across the affordability indicators, including finishing first overall in both the cost of housing and the cost of leisure. However, elsewhere it struggles — finishing near the bottom of the pack in terms of the city's overall economic profile, as well as its employment attributes."
The city has relatively few co-working spaces, and its fees for new business licences are relatively steep. It also hosts the fewest entrepreneurial conferences of the 21 cities studied, and was 18th in the number of applications to Futurpreneur, a non-profit that supports aspiring business owners under 40.
"There's a niche to be filled, as the city finishes at the bottom of each attribute in the entrepreneurship theme," the report points out.
On a brighter note, Sudbury "finishes among the top of the pack (fifth) in terms of the change in youth full-time jobs as percentage of total jobs."
Like many cities, Sudbury's population is aging, although its proportion of millennials and the next wave of young people, often referred to as Generation Z, is not insignificant. According to the Urban Work Index, the city's youth population is 19.8 per cent.
Caitlin McAuliffe, a local researcher for the index project and a millennial herself, said it was an interesting assignment, as well as an unexpected result.
"I know our employment rate for youth is not great, and I've seen articles about not being the most entrepreneur-friendly city, so I was surprised we ranked so high," she said. "But when you compare the affordability, we came out as having the cheapest rent."
Youth were also invited through a survey to express what matters most to them among four themes — affordability, education, employment and entrepreneurship — "and I guess the result here was we value affordability above services for entrepreneurship," McAuliffe noted. "So that gave us a bit more weighting for the affordability and that's why our ranking also increased."
The Sudbury researcher has found other work locally, including as an analyst for the Northern Policy Institute, but knows many people of her generation who have had to go elsewhere to pursue opportunities in their preferred fields.
"I do think there is a bit of brain drain," she said. "But I also know a lot of people move here because of affordable housing and then try to look for a job. And there is a shortage in skilled trades, so perhaps that's another draw for people to come here, and youth specifically."
McAuliffe said the 21 cities in the study were chosen to provide a cross-section of the most populated centres in Canada — Sudbury being the most populous in this region — but more cities will be represented in a forthcoming Canadian Index.
Sudbury placed ahead of such major centres as Toronto (10th), Calgary (13th) and Vancouver (15th) in the recent study, as well as cities of comparable size such as Moncton (12th) and Oshawa (16th).
While the rankings celebrate the success of youth-friendly cities, they should also motivate municipalities to do more to attract and employ young talent, according to the report authors.
"As Canada's population ages, we need to make sure our cities are vibrant places for youth to work," says Robert Barnard, co-founder of YouthfulCities. "Using this new index as inspiration, we have a challenge for Canada and Canadian cities: make full youth employment (youth unemployment below six per cent) a goal by 2024. Clearly, we can, and we need, to do more. We need to spark a national dialogue on the future of urban work and youth's critical role in it."
jmoodie@postmedia.com
Fran Caldarelli named to police services board	  Sudbury's hospital wants more beds


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Thought it would be interesting to compare/contrast leaves from all maples in the garden.
If anyone can identify the unknown cultivars please let me know. Or also if I have misidentified any. These all came from individual trees that are in pots or being field grown for bonsai purposes. Deshojo is definitely the winner at this time of year.
I'm referring to an attempted threadgraft on an Amur Maple which I performed at the start of spring this year.
This is a poor picture of the tree back in January. A pretty straight, mature lower trunk followed by a much younger apex and not much inbetween. This had bothered me ever since I bought it online four years ago but this year I asked for a few opinions on the Bonsai Ireland hub as to the better front and then decided that i would try and address the lack of branching on one side by performing a thread graft using a shoot from another tree developed from cutting.
A hole was drilled pointing slightly downwards and the shoot threaded through from right to left in the above picture.
You can see after a few weeks things were going well and for the whole summer I left the threaded shoot unpruned to encourage it to thicken as much as possible. All other shoots on the donor tree were pruned to aid this. However a few weeks ago I noticed a deterioration in the shoot and upon closer inspection the join at the exit hole on the trunk was loose and the branch damaged at this new junction. I now believe this to be due to the weight of the branch pulling it down and preventing the the two cambium layers effectively joining . I pruned the new shoot back but it was too late and the remained of the branch died. Last night I had a closer look and it just fell off.


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You worry too much about chisel/plane bevel angles!
By alama | October 11, 2022 | 50
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Kevin Angel on October 11, 2022 at 3:13 am
Once again Thanks James!!! Great advice and very helpfull.
Steve Webb on October 11, 2022 at 3:14 am
Eleven out of ten for usefulness. Thank you! The illustrations were very helpful indeed.
Jim Bo on October 11, 2022 at 3:14 am
Spot on James. I sharpen my chisels to 20'. Less wedging and sideways movement.
Gordon Franken on October 11, 2022 at 3:15 am
What about end grain?
David Zachmeyer on October 11, 2022 at 3:15 am
I feel kinda stupid admitting this, but I've always chiseled with the bevel down because I seem to be able to control the depth of the cut better. I only use bevel up when paring.
Peter Compton on October 11, 2022 at 3:15 am
All very good info… Balance between sharp and edge durability. Keep it sharp (hone often), and the angle does not matter so much. Please give my Regards to Moustache Mike.
Darnley Bynoe on October 11, 2022 at 3:15 am
Always wondered about this and those really expensive chisels, Mr. Sellers has used a well sharpened $10 set of chisels and an ebay Stanley no4 to do just about everything. Now I get why it works, Thx.
rimmersbryggeri on October 11, 2022 at 3:17 am
Poplar isnt a softwood. It's a soft wood.
tom mcnally on October 11, 2022 at 3:19 am
Thanks, useful information, 👍
Tony Lenge on October 11, 2022 at 3:19 am
Excellent information. Thanks
Prjndigo on October 11, 2022 at 3:20 am
You get into this with metal lathes too. Its kinda like autism – on a spectrum.
Sir. Tony Blair. jr on October 11, 2022 at 3:21 am
Hi there Stump Nubs🕶, I really like your channel and videos. Very educational and informative. And I like your improv jokes. Your work shop is very creative a lot of tools. You have alot of hand planners ,WOW. Do you give some away? Because, I could use one or two? I'm just starting in woodworking and I don't have alot of tools. I could really appreciate a donation to get me up and going in woodworking on a big budget (disability). If you would like to donate, please do. It could very helpful.
But, I like your videos and news letter keep up the good work and keep the videos coming Mr. Stumpy Nubs.
Dennis f on October 11, 2022 at 3:23 am
this is the most informative video on angles I've seen. Thanks
t3rra on October 11, 2022 at 3:26 am
wow bro you have to many tolls to don't know anything you wasted you money, let me tell you
mystang 89 on October 11, 2022 at 3:26 am
What's all this I've read about a 30° bevel and then a 25° micro bevel for planes? I've got the 30° bevel but when I use the blade guide for the 25° micro bevel it's putting the micro bevel on the back side of the bevel and not at the edge. I've got it set in the plane to 38mm for a 30° bevel and 50mm for the 25° micro bevel.
richard goebel on October 11, 2022 at 3:26 am
Finally someone talked about the clearance angle on the bevel down plane blade. 10 degree clearance angle has been been working fine with the experiments I have been doing for the past month on every piece of scrap wood I could find. The edge retention is better meaning less time to sharpen.
Anthony E. Idealistic Woodworks on October 11, 2022 at 3:26 am
I tend to stick with 35 degrees, just easier to maintain no matter what wood I am cutting a mortise in. Yes some woods take longer but, less time sharpening and more time actually working gets you there faster in my opinion. Especially if you hand sharpen like I do, no grinders or power sharpeners, just stones which takes longer than using powered methods but there's something satisfying about hand sharpening which I do not know why but I like it lol.
Thomas Doherty on October 11, 2022 at 3:27 am
Im a bit disappointed, i thought i could definitely find some idiot troll comments to laugh at….oh well, keep up the good work stumpy 👍
Tony Minehan on October 11, 2022 at 3:27 am
Does anyone have an angle for making easy money ?
sean titmas on October 11, 2022 at 3:27 am
a 10 to15 degree back bevel on a bevel down, (45 degree frog) jack/smoothing plane will do wonders on highly figured, tear-out prone hardwoods.
Mark Sexton on October 11, 2022 at 3:28 am
Ok….no I have a question. How do you know which way a plane blade goes…???
Bevel up or down…? I just got an old Sargent jack plane, and an old Stanley plane, not sure what model…
Daniel Garcia on October 11, 2022 at 3:33 am
Bevel up plane would be a different story
Zamora Fotography on October 11, 2022 at 3:35 am
I am new to woodworking and just received my first plane today. What about bevel-up planes?
John Boiger on October 11, 2022 at 3:35 am
Exceptional info, thank you!
William Lyles on October 11, 2022 at 3:36 am
Thank you James for creating these videos, if your video's are scripted it does not come across as so. You leave the impression that you are speaking from personal experience, which makes me and most others feel confident in your lesson. You are a great teacher, I wish I could have learned these lessons years ago. I have spent countless hours trying to get that perfect angle. Thanks again, hope you are doing well.
You just get a frogdog to change your attack.
neonjoe529 on October 11, 2022 at 3:37 am
0:57 Little stumpy nubs?
Tony Luciani on October 11, 2022 at 3:37 am
Thanks a lot for this. Been trying to learn to sharpen for the past 30 years, still not an exact science or results for me. I will give the old hand plane another go and the chisels. Two thumbs up!
Brett Bensley on October 11, 2022 at 3:38 am
I take this with a great grain of salt from a guy who has all those planes on shelves behind him. I still don't own a plane and want one.
Jay Smith on October 11, 2022 at 3:39 am
Says the man with 1,000 planes behind him. LOL
Bob Brown on October 11, 2022 at 3:40 am
There are two horizontal shelves as a backdrop, what are the items on the lower shelf?
Crooks on October 11, 2022 at 3:41 am
Excellent information
Chad Mitchell on October 11, 2022 at 3:43 am
Thanks, I was actually over thinking bevel angles. LOL
Conor McKee on October 11, 2022 at 3:43 am
Hey Stumpy, on a completely unrelated note — how would you feel about doing a shootout review of the different products used to clean and prevent rust on cast iron tool surfaces? To date I've tried 3 in 1 oil, Boeshield, WD40, paste wax, and paraffin wax and I'm not entirely happy with any of these solutions.
Charles Groves on October 11, 2022 at 3:44 am
Thank you! I have been confused by all the advice i have been getting without a good explanation of the physics behind bevel angles. Best explanation i have heard yet!
Darin Mohrman on October 11, 2022 at 3:47 am
THANK YOU for this. I thought i was going to lose my mind lately as I've been toiling over what angles to use for my planes and then considering after researching I might need more than one set of chisels….
Wm. Walker Co. on October 11, 2022 at 3:48 am
Excellent video! I assume you meant Poplar was a Soft Wood, not a Softwood.
TW DODD on October 11, 2022 at 3:49 am
@0:52 "If you did that you would need a 100 planes and chisels" Me: looks at all the chisels and planes in the background.
jzvetter on October 11, 2022 at 3:52 am
stumpy you always solve my problems just before I encounter them. Thanks for saving me hours at the grinder I just purchased
Bill K. on October 11, 2022 at 3:54 am
Lots of great information as always James. Thanks for sharing your knowledge with us.
Juangaba on October 11, 2022 at 3:56 am
Much appreciated; happen to have two #4 I'll use one for soft the other for hardwoods
toOnybrain on October 11, 2022 at 3:57 am
I love when you draw.
Peter Harms on October 11, 2022 at 3:58 am
I notice you don't get into whether to use or not to use secondary bevels. Although it is implied that you do always 'hone to' a secondary bevel. It's not clear from what you say though why one would 'hone to' a secondary bevel. I was taught in germany where, generally speaking everything is honed to the same angle that the tool is ground to. So there's no wobbling about as you learn to hone trying to get the correct secondary bevel….assuming you're working without a honing guide.
N.W. Ranger on October 11, 2022 at 4:05 am
I concur.
John Walters on October 11, 2022 at 4:07 am
I am making an adapter for chisels and plane blades that will fit on my knife sharpener. I can sharpen really nice edges on knifes, I expect to do the same for my woodworking tools. I like to work in metals and wood.
Cohibamatt on October 11, 2022 at 4:07 am
So what brands would you recommend for a new wood worker who doesn't have the money to buy a ton of stuff? Could you also do another video, if you haven't already, on the different types of planers and what they are used for?
WB Fine Woodworking With Don Bullock on October 11, 2022 at 4:09 am
Great advice.,
Felipe Pereira on October 11, 2022 at 4:09 am
When the guy with 2000 planes and chisels says it doesn't matter, it probably doesn't!
Douglas Hopkins on October 11, 2022 at 4:10 am
Don't tell my wife I don't need all of my chisels… I have two good sets of Narex chisels… one of which I let feel the slight strike of a mallet. I have several old sets of chisels, some of which I would be willing to cut mortises in really hard wood. Then some spare sets… and then the ugly yellow plastic handle one that I have been known to lend to people because it doesnt matter what happens to it. That last one is the additional chisel that every wood worker needs!
Nick DV on October 11, 2022 at 4:11 am
Bloody brilliant 👍👍👍