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SOOKIE POV
God had found a last way to torment me. I had experienced the feeling of falling in love, even as my child had been comforted by Eric's presence.
My child had clung to Eric's void as if it were his only chance at peace. Perhaps, it was. I could not help but to wonder if I—too—had "looked" for peace as an infant. In the end, it did not matter, the vampire gave my child reprieve from the minds around him. And that was the best gift I could offer him during his last weeks of life.
But then William returned. And I no longer felt Eric in the castle—not even when I stretched my gift out as far as I could.
A smaller void was still present during the days; perhaps it was Pamela, the child Eric had told me about. But I could never get my son close enough to take comfort in the lesser void.
And what of my own heartbreak over a love discovered and lost? It was simply another torment for me—a test to see if my legs could stay strong enough to stand under the additional pain of loss. When Eric had touched his lips to mine, it had been my first kiss. For Bartlett had not tried such a gesture. And William preferred to hit when he fucked.
But Eric's kiss seemed to me, now, to be another sign that I was God's most hated creation for some reason.
It was joy shown to me, but then taken away. It was pleasure that I had been allowed to taste for a moment, but only so that I could starve all the more violently after it was gone.
Still, I would not trade my nights with Eric for anything—except for my child's life.
When William returned to my bed, my suffering was even greater than before because of the contrast between the violence of my human husband and the kindness of my vampire beloved.
Even then, however, I remained grateful that I had once had a companion who had cared enough to sit with me for my child's sake.
Of course, William, as always, enjoyed hitting me as he used my body. But what upset me the most was that the child was distraught from both losing his nightly comfort and from my own distress, which I had failed to hide completely when I was receiving the worst that William offered me
Another failure to be added to my long list of them.
But my son's pain would last for less than a week more. That was the comfort I tried to send to him when I cradled him.
"You will be in heaven soon. Gran will look after you," I soothed over and over again.
It was two days from the end of my son's last week that God decided to show me that he had not yet even begun to make me suffer. It was Sam Merlotte who first smelled the child growing in me.
Fuck shifters and their supernatural sense of smell!
Before Merlotte had spoken of the life inside of me, I'd had a clear plan.
Care for my son as if my very soul depended upon it.
Make my hopeless guesses to the goblin.
Give up my child.
Take the poison.
Suffer for my failure to my child.
Burn in hell.
My fate had seemed resolved.
But there was now a second child.
If I killed myself, I would kill him or her too! If I did not, I would have to stay alive at least long enough to birth the child.
Nine more months of a hell worse than hell.
Nine more months to live with the fact that I had traded away my son's life.
Nine more months of remembering what I could never have with Eric.
Nine more months of enduring William's "affection."
And—after that? Could I abandon the child? Could I leave him or her all alone to be reared by William to be a monster?
And if I did, what kind of monster would that make me?
ERIC POV
I had thought of Sookie throughout all of my waking hours since the last time I had seen her. With King William back in court, it was too dangerous for me to see her, but I did hear tell of her from Pamela, who glamoured maids to feed me information. Sookie had suffered new wounds on her body in the days since I had last left her.
My blood had boiled and I had be forced to stay away from the castle, lest my bloodlust cause Sookie's situation to become even worse.
However, my beloved's focus was—as always—on her son.
And, then, there was other news; she was with child again.
She had told me that she intended to take her own life after she knew her son's was gone. But I knew—now—that she would not allow herself that release from captivity and torment. Not if she would have to kill a child to do it.
I was tempted to ruin everything that vampires like my father had fought millennia for—by taking Sookie and her child to Nenvia with me, but I knew we would all be killed there.
Law was law—even for a vampire king's child.
And then there was a glimmer of hope: a letter from a fairy.
I had never met a full-blooded fairy before. Part of our treaty with them required that questing vampires stay away from their territories. And I had done just that during my time in Terra. Even trying to contact a fairy through emissaries—as I had done multiple times since I had met Sookie—was frowned upon. But—on the second to last night I was to spend in Terra—I was given audience with Niall Brigant himself.
Of course, there were rules to our meeting. I had to literally place my body into silver in order to show that I had come in peace. But I had not hesitated to do so. Neither Sookie nor the child had time for that!
"You are the child of the rulers of the vampire realm," Niall said as he approached me once I was secured. I leaned toward him and my fangs elongated; I could not help myself.
Indeed, he smelled that damned good!
But, within a few minutes, I had regained control. I forced my fangs into my gums.
"Yes," I finally said, responding to his question. "I am the child of those venerated vampires; I was made by Godric—though Pythia is just as responsible for my rearing."
"And why are you here?" he asked.
I held nothing back. "Your son Fintan had at least one child with a human. From that child came another. And then another. The product is a young woman named Susanna—Sookie. She is, as far as I can tell, Fintan's only descendant with a Fae spark. As a child, she was beaten for her telepathy, for her father thought it was a sign that she was devil-touched. I have killed the priest that spear-headed her beatings already. His suffering was great.
"Before she was a woman, Sookie's uncle molested her, but the child was blamed for the sins of the man when he was discovered right before he could fuck her. The priest of the parish made sure that everyone thought that Sookie was to blame. And the devil was—once more—beaten from her. The uncle—too—has been taken care of. And I offered him even more of my skill than the priest was given.
"Despite all she faced, Sookie endured. She learned to use her gift of telepathy in order to keep her safe, but her human father's idiocy eventually led her to become the plaything of King William of England Her father had boasted that she could spin straw into gold. The king believed this, for he had known a goblin before—who could do the same. Sookie was sold to the king by her father. She was placed into a room full of straw. She was given three days. On the second night, the goblin teleported into the room. He offered to turn the straw into gold for a price: her firstborn."
Niall looked at me in question after this statement, but he had not spoken.
"King William gave Sookie two options when he locked her into that room—actually three options. If she accomplished the task, he would make her his bride, and—as long as she gave him an heir and spread her legs whenever he desired—he swore not to ask her for more gold. If, on the other hand, she did not accomplish the task, he vowed to hand her to his Weres and shifters; she would have been passed around."
Niall began to growl. At least that was something.
"King William, having dealt with the goblin before and knowing at least something of fairies, told Sookie that if she took her own life or tried to escape rather than accept one of the two options he 'mercifully' offered, she would be condemning her entire family and one hundred innocents to their deaths. Sookie did not even think about killing herself after that, though I believe she has longed for death for a long time."
I did not pause before I went on, for I knew time was limited.
"During the second night of her time in the room full of straw, Sookie received a visit from the goblin. He offered to turn the straw into gold, but only in exchange for her firstborn, which she had to give him one year after the bargain was struck. She accepted the deal, but only because the goblin told her that he would kill her otherwise. You see—she was prepared to belong to the Weres as their whore, for, in that case, it was only she who would suffer. But the bastard goblin took that choice away from her! So to save 107 lives, she sacrificed one: her very own child. And she knew that it would be a death sentence for the child, for the goblin taunted her with honesty, saying that he would eat her baby.
"However, as goblins do, this one offered her a riddle—though one that he felt was unsolvable. She has three tries to guess his name. But, of course, her telepathy is useless with goblins, and you know how covetous they are with their names."
"Speak a goblin's name and his magic will wane," Niall muttered.
"Is that saying true?" I asked.
Niall shook his head. "I do not know, but—you are right—they covet their names more than anything else." He sat down near to me, likely testing my control. "How do you know my great-granddaughter?"
"I happened upon Sookie by chance when I first met King William in his court. By a twisted twist of fate, I am due to go home to Nenvia on the same night that she is to hand over her child to the goblin."
"What is she like?" he asked.
"She believes herself to be a failure and quite broken, but she is the strongest person I have ever known. She is a good woman. An excellent mother," I continued, my voice now betraying my love for her. "In fact, she offered me her story in exchange for my presence so that her child could experience the peace that my mind affords. But King William has returned to court and now I cannot be with either Sookie or the babe."
Niall looked at me through wizened eyes. "You love both of them."
I thought for a moment. I had known that I loved Sookie, but did I love the child as well? I knew the answer to that question even as I knew my own name.
"I love all three of them," I corrected. "Sookie is with child again."
Niall was silent for several minutes as he studied me. I could not help but to wonder what he saw. I was about to enter my six hundredth year, but the fairy before me was even older than my maker. I found myself wanting to be approved of by him.
"Direct contact between fairies and vampires is almost always forbidden, according to the treaty that I helped to put into place many, many years ago—the same treaty that made the vampire realm of Nenvia possible. Tell me—have you held to that treaty—with her?"
"No," I whispered.
"Explain," he ordered, though his voice did not sound angry.
"I kissed her goodbye and told her that she was loved," I answered honestly. "However, I never took the blood that she offered me."
"Offered?"
I nodded. "Yes. She offered every night that I visited her in her chambers."
"You resisted?"
"She is but part Fae. I wanted her—more and more each night—as my affection for her grew. But I resisted."
"Except for the kiss?" he asked.
"Yes. I am ready to receive your punishment, fairy prince," I said evenly.
"That punishment could be your true death," he returned.
"I am prepared for that."
"Was she worth it?" he asked.
"There is no limit to Sookie's worth!" I said fiercely.
Niall was silent again—this time for even longer than before. "What do you want of me, vampire?"
"I want nothing," I whispered.
"What do you wish for me to do?" he clarified.
"If you know of the goblin, I would ask that you allow Sookie to learn his name so that she may save her child. I would ask that she be rescued from the hell within which she lives. I would ask that you offer her sanctuary in your territory. I would ask that she be free."
"You have asked more than I can give," Niall said heavily. "Right now, Sookie would be accepted into Faerie only if she agreed to mate with another fairy. I could offer her say in her choice, but not exemption from the task. If her firstborn is telepathic—as you say—I could give him sanctuary with us, but if she bore a child without a spark for her second child, the babe would not be able to survive in my realm."
I closed my eyes. "She would likely lose a child AND be a brood mare to your kind too?"
Niall sighed loudly. "There is dissention among the Fae. Treaties have been forged for the greater good and I cannot break them."
"Not even for your kin?" I challenged.
"Especially not for my kin," he said, looking agonized. "If I show her favoritism, my tenuous grasp on the throne will become even more vulnerable."
"Then all hope is, indeed, lost for her," I said resignedly.
All of a sudden, the remarkable scent of him disappeared, and the fairy removed my chains.
"Not all hope, Eric." He smiled at me. "You are my hope. And hers."
I had honed my stealth through years of practice. It did not hurt that a fairy had teleported me to within a mile of my prey. It did not hurt that he was waiting to teleport me back to London. It did not hurt that I could fly. It did not hurt that I was a vampire. And it certainly did not hurt that I had been given a potion to cover my scent by the prince of the fairies himself.
I was not above taking advantages of ALL advantages.
According to Niall, the goblin who was most likely responsible for "saving" Sookie and for her woe was one who coveted his name as much as he coveted children's flesh to eat. Luckily, Niall knew where the cruel bastard had settled down!
Concealed in the trees half a mile away from the goblin's cottage, I heard celebratory singing. It sickened me. And it heartened me.
"To-day I bake, to-morrow brew,
the next I'll have the young queen's child.
Ha, glad am I that no one knew
that Rumpelstiltskin I am styled."
I was ready to return to Sookie with knowledge—and with an offer.
2 thoughts on "XI: The Torment"
glamouredbyyou says:
This was really a great chapter.
Woohoo! Niall is a Good Guy!!!
Go Eric. Hold on Sookie 🙂


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Were there women elders in New Testament churches? (Part 2)
1 Timothy 3, All Posts on Equality, Women in Ministry
1 Timothy 3, Church Leadership, First Timothy
The Imprecise Use of "Elders" in the New Testament and the Presbyterai of 1 Timothy 5:2
In my previous post, I stated that women elders are mentioned in 1 Timothy and I suggested the likelihood that Priscilla was one of them. In this longer post, I look at verses in 1 Timothy where the Greek word for "elder/s" occurs, and I compare 1 Timothy 5:1-2 with verses found in 1 Peter, in 1 Clement, in Acts, and in Titus. Hopefully, this gives us a better understanding of the context and meaning of "elders" in 1 Timothy 5:1-2. I also look briefly at elders, both men and women, in early Judaism. There are two aims in this article: (1) to show that "elders" was an imprecise term in the first century, and (2) to show that some elders were women.
Presbyteroi in the New Testament
The Greek word used for "elders" in the New Testament is the adjective presbyteroi.[1] This word is used many times in the New Testament for Jewish elders (especially those in Jerusalem), about a dozen times for church elders, and a few times for "older" people. Then there are the elders mentioned in the book of Revelation who I won't be discussing in this article. In all, presbyteroi occurs sixty-six times in the New Testament and frequently occurs as a collective term in the plural. (The masculine singular is presbyteros.)
In First Timothy, the Greek word for elder/s occurs only in the fifth chapter (1 Tim. 5:1, 2, 17, and 19): a feminine form referring to women, presbyterai, occurs in verse 2; masculine (plural and singular) forms occur in verses 1, 17 and 19.
It's important to note that masculine Greek words that describe people do not necessarily exclude women. For example, the Greek adjective leproi ("lepers") is masculine; context tells us whether the lepers mentioned in a given text are men only (e.g., Luke 17:12) or potentially both men and women (e.g., Luke 4:27).[2] On the other hand, feminine words (articles, nouns, adjectives, participles) that describe people, typically refer to women only.
Presbyteroi in 1 Timothy 5:1-2
First Timothy is a letter addressed to Timothy who was ministering in Ephesus, a city on the West Coast of Asia Minor. In the opening verses of chapter 5, Paul tells Timothy:
Don't rebuke an older man (or elder) (presbyteros), but exhort him as a father, younger men as brothers, older women (or women elders) (presbyterai) as mothers, and the younger women as sisters with all purity (1 Tim. 5:1-2).
At first glance, it seems that Paul is simply categorising the congregation into four groups based on age and sex, and that elders as church leaders or ministers is not the sense intended.
Nevertheless, some older translations of 1 Timothy 5:1 use the word "elder." For example, the KJV has "Rebuke not an elder." Some older translations of 1 Timothy 5:2 use the words "elder women." We need to recognise, however, that "elder" is a synonym for "older." Presbyteroi in its most basic sense simply refers to older adults. This basic sense of old age underlies all occurrences of presbyteroi in the New Testament.
The masculine and feminine words presbyteros and presbyterai in 1 Timothy 5:1-2 appear to be an indication of age rather than ministry. But this may not be the case. The presbyterai in 1 Timothy 5:2 may have been more than just "older women." This becomes apparent when we realise that the juxtaposing of elders with young adults happens in other passages where elders are mentioned in the context of ministry and leadership. These passages are 1 Peter 5:1-5, verses in 1 Clement, and Acts 2:17-18.
The basic sense of old age underlies all occurrences of presbyteroi ("elders") in the NT.
Presbyteroi in 1 Peter 5:1-5
First Peter is a letter addressed to Christians living in various regions of Asia Minor (1 Pet. 1:1). In the first few verses of chapter 5 of this letter, Peter identifies himself as a "fellow-elder" and he gives instructions to presbyteroi, that is, elders.[3] He tells them to act as shepherds, or pastors: to watch over and care for the flock and be examples (1 Pet. 5:1-4; cf. Acts 20:28). (While it is not apparent in some English translations, this passage in the Greek gives no indication that the elders are only men.)
As soon as Peter finishes giving instructions to the elders, he instructs the young adults (1 Pet. 5:5 NKJV). These two groups are not further divided according to gender, and there are no alternative groups addressed here (other than the elders and young people) so women may be included in both groups.
Like 1 Timothy 5:1-2, there are only two age groups addressed in 1 Peter 5:1-5. This is because, at that time, the adult population was predominantly made up of only two generations.[4] Roughly speaking, an older adult was over 35-40 years of age, a young adult was under 35-40.
In 1 Peter 5, presbyteroi are older adults charged with pastoral responsibilities. This may have been the case for the elders in 1 Clement, also.
Presbyteroi in 1 Clement
1 Clement is a work written around 100 AD and has been included in a collection of early Christian writings known as the Apostolic Fathers. It was written by the Roman church to the Corinthian church when the Romans learned that some of the younger Corinthians had deposed the leadership made up of older men. Because of this situation, the juxtaposing of older and younger adults makes good sense.
I've included the three verses in 1 Clement where presbyteroi and young adults (neoi) occur side by side, along with brief comments, in footnote 5 below.[5] In two of these verses, elders are mentioned alongside leaders (hegoumenoi). At least some of these elders would have been leaders, but not all. Still, all elders, whether they were church leaders or not, were to be honoured (1 Clem 1:3; 3:3; 21:6; cf. 1 Tim. 5:1-2).
Unlike, 1 Timothy 5:1-2 and 1 Peter 5:1-5, it is reasonably clear that women were not included among these elders in Corinth. Rather, women are mentioned in a distinct group; women are "others" in 1 Clement.
Presbyteroi in Acts 2:17
Presbyteroi are mentioned several times in the book of Acts, including Acts 2:17b. In this verse young and old are also mentioned side by side: "And your young people will see visions and your presbyteroi will dream dreams." This statement does not specify gender, but it is sandwiched between other statements that do specify gender: "… I will pour out my Spirit on all people, and your sons and your daughters will prophesy" (Acts 2:17a). And: "Even upon both my male servants and upon my female servants, I will pour out my Spirit in those days, and they will prophesy (Acts 2:18). The structure of the passage indicates that presbyteroi in verse 17 include women.
Acts 2:17-18 is an "inclusive" passage. Unlike other passages that make a distinction between elders and young adults, Acts 2:17b minimises a distinction based on age difference (cf. 1 Tim. 4:12). And Acts 2:17-18 makes no distinction on the basis of sex. Rather, these verses, and others in the New Testament, show that the Holy Spirit empowers men and women, young and old, to minister, to prophecy, to instruct, and to lead (e.g., 1 Cor. 12:11; 14:26 CSB; Col. 3:16 CSB). Every New Testament verse about ministry gifts and abilities is gender-inclusive.[6]
Elders have the advantage of experience and maturity. It is this maturity that makes some elders suitable to lead congregations. A person's gender, however, neither qualifies nor disqualifies someone to minister and lead in the body of Christ.
Presbyteroi in 1 Timothy 5:17-19 and Titus 1:5
We now come back to 1 Timothy 5. After mentioning male and female presbyteroi in the opening verses of chapter 5, Paul refers to presbyteroi again in verses 17 and 19.
Elders (presbyteroi) who lead (proistēmi) well should be paid (timē) double, especially those who work with public speaking and teaching…. Don't accept an accusation made against an elder (presbyteros) unless it is confirmed by two or three witnesses. 1 Timothy 5:17, 19 CEB (Greek words added.)
The elders in verse 17 are specifically identified as those who lead and care for congregations.[7] This indicates that not all elders were leaders (or, that not all elders lead well) and that only some were speakers and teachers. Furthermore, these elders who lead and care well are worthy of being paid well. I take the Greek word timē to refer to "price" (i.e. financial support) rather than "honour" (cf. the related verb in 1 Tim. 5:3 in the context of support for widows). Elsewhere, Paul cautions about assigning honour to people who already have it (cf. 1 Cor. 12: 21-25).
The elders in 1 Timothy 5:17 are a subset of those mentioned in 1 Timothy 5:1-2.
The presbyteroi in 5:17-19 are a subset of those mentioned previously in 5:1-2. And verse 19 is reminiscent of 5:1-2 in that elders should be treated well. These earlier verses may refer to all older members of the church at Ephesus and not just elders who lead.[8]
As well as occurring four times in 1 Timothy 5, presbyteroi occurs once in Titus, in Titus 1:5. These elders of the church in Crete were undoubtedly appointed leaders (Tit. 1:5; cf. Acts 14:23).[9] The Greek text of the moral qualifications for these elders does not indicate that they must be men. Furthermore, nowhere in the Greek New Testament is there a verse that states elders must only be men.
Nowhere in the Greek NT is there a verse that says church elders must be men.
The word presbyteroi does not occur at all in any of the earlier and undisputed letters of Paul, not once. It was not a word the apostle usually used for church leaders or ministers. Moreover, in none of the Pauline letters is a specific or named individual called an elder. As I stated in the previous article, the ministry terms Paul used most often were coworker, minister/deacon (diakonos), apostle/missionary (apostolos), and labourer, descriptions he used for both his male and female ministry colleagues. These terms denote function rather than an official position or an ecclesial hierarchy.
Almost all the first converts to Christianity were Jews or Jewish proselytes who belonged to synagogues. And some synagogues practices carried over into church life. Perhaps Paul, with his inclusive views on ministry and his aversion to Judaisers, avoided the word presbyteroi because of the way it was used in Judaism.
Presbyteroi in Early Judaism
In the New Testament, presbyteroi is an imprecise term. It is believed the church adopted it from Judaism, but in ancient Judaism it was also an imprecise term with a combined sense of both seniority and leadership.
R. Alistair Campbell writes,
Jewish writers of the Second Temple period (including New Testament writers when they refer to the Jewish leaders) display a notable lack of precision in the use of the term 'elders', usually linking it with other terms [such as chief priests and scribes (e.g., Mark 14:53)] to reinforce the impression that the whole leadership was involved. Elders, we may say, are those who have presbeion [seniority], rather than the holders of an office of eldership at either national or local level.[10]
It is possible to say that while [Jewish] congregations gave precedence to persons of seniority, and used the term 'the elders' to refer to them, there does not seem to have been an office of elder as such to which a person might be appointed and with clearly defined functions…. An elder did not hold an office in the way that the archisynagōgos [ruler of the synagogue] did.[11]
Jewish elders were people with seniority, and the Jewish elders mentioned in the Gospels and in some passages in Acts, were all men. Most of the church elders mentioned in Acts, particularly those in Jerusalem, would have been all men too.
. . . the formation of a body of [church] elders first after the synagogue model, then probably in connection with the decree [of Acts 15] with the same claim as the Sanhedrin, belongs only to the period of increasing Judaising of the primitive community under James, after the departure of Peter. There is a very clear picture of [the council of elders in Jerusalem] in Acts 21:17-26.[12]
The Jewish elders and the church elders based in Jerusalem were men.[13] (It is also likely that James had male elders in mind when he mentioned them in James 5:14.) However, outside of Jerusalem things were different, especially in parts of Asia Minor.
Presbyterai (Women Elders) in Early Judaism
Ancient inscriptions have survived that mention Jewish women in prominent roles in synagogues. (See here for example.) Presently, seven epitaphs of women elders and four epitaphs of women synagogue leaders have been discovered. Several more epitaphs exist of Jewish women with other leadership titles.[14] One woman, Sophia of Gortyn, whose inscription was found in Crete, was both an elder (presbytera) and a leader of a synagogue (archisynagōgissa).[15]
These inscriptions are sometimes interpreted as referring to wives of elders or of synagogue leaders, that is, they are honorary rather than functional titles. Paul Trebilco and others, however, argue that many of the twenty-one Jewish women commemorated in the various inscriptions were actual elders and leaders of synagogues.
Trebilco has written about the prominence of women in the synagogues of Asia Minor and notes that they had "a significant degree of involvement and leadership in synagogue life…"[16] (As well as inscriptions which mention women leaders, inscriptions reveal that about 36 per cent of donations to synagogue buildings were made by wealthy female patrons.)[17] Trebilco further notes that the phenomenon of female leadership "is most noticeable on the West Coast, especially in Caria and Ionia . . . . In these two regions . . . women's leadership in the city was the most noticeable and the most widespread."[18]
Map showing the regions of Ionia (and Ephesus) and Caria on the West Coast of Asia Minor.
In parts of the Roman world, such as Asia Minor, Jewish and Christian women were prominent in their synagogues and churches, especially in the regions of Ionia and Caria in Asia Minor. The synagogues and churches of Ephesus and Smyrna were located in Ionia.[19] And we know that women, such as Priscilla, were ministering in these churches.[20] (A discussion on the ministries of Alke and Gavia of Smyrna is here.)
1 Timothy 4:14 tells us that the presbyterion ("council, or group, of elders") had laid hands on young Timothy. Does this refer to the elders in Jerusalem? Or does it refer to the elders in the Ephesian church, those mentioned in 1 Timothy 5? Were Priscilla and Aquila two of the elders who had laid hands on Timothy?
Since there seemed to have been no problem with Priscilla and Aquila correcting the teacher Apollos when he was in Ephesus (surely a role of elders), and since Priscilla and Aquila were house church leaders in Ephesus, I see no reason why Priscilla, or women like Priscilla, should be excluded from the group of elders in the Ephesian church. The fact remains, however, that we do not know the names of any elders in the New Testament church apart from Peter and John.[21]
This article and the preceding one were inspired by questions and statements regarding elders. Behind these questions and statements are the ideas that women were not elders in New Testament times and so they shouldn't be elders in churches today, even though church life today is vastly different to that of the first century.
The fact is that the feminine of presbyteroi ("elders") does occur in the New Testament, and it occurs in other ancient Jewish and Christian writings and inscriptions where it refers to woman elders.
Using New Testament elders as a precedent for either allowing or disallowing women to be elders today is fraught with difficulties, as "in the Jewish and Christian sphere it is often hard to distinguish between the designation of age and the title of an office,"[22] assuming there were even church offices before the end of the first century.[23] While presbyteroi ("elders") was a general and "vague" term in the first century,[24] I maintain that there were presbyterai ("women elders") in New Testament churches. 1 Timothy 5:2 tells us this was the case.
[1] Presbyteroi (presbyteros is the nominative singular form) is a comparative adjective; it literally refers to people who are old-er. While presbyteroi is technically an adjective, it often functions as a substantive in the New Testament, that is, it functions as a noun.
[2] Similarly, the noun adelphoi is masculine but in New Testament verses that refer to both men and women adelphoi is rendered "brothers and sisters" in modern translations.
[3] A definite article is not used, in the Greek, with presbyteroi in 1 Peter 5:1 or 5:5. So a defined group of official elders may not be the case here. A definite article is also not used with the comparative adjective neōteroi ("younger adults") in 1 Peter 5:5.
Definite articles are used with every occurrence of presbyteroi in 1 Clement 1:3; 3:3; 21:6: 44:5; 54:2; 57:1. However, neoi also occurs with a definite article in 3:3 and 21:6. Nevertheless, context unambiguously shows that "the elders" mentioned in 1 Clement 44:5: 54:2 and 57:1 are appointed office bearers, even if those, or some of those, in previous chapters are not.
Both presbyteroi and neaniskoi in Acts 2:17 occur with a definite article.
Definite articles are not used with presbyteros and presbyterai in 1 Timothy 5:1-2 and 5:19, but presbyteroi ("the elders") in 5:17 does have a definite article. The comparative adjectives translated as "younger men" and "younger women" in 1 Timothy 5:1-2 likewise occur without a definite article.
[4] See John M. G. Barclay, "There Is Neither Old nor Young? Early Christianity and Ancient Ideologies of Age," New Testament Studies 53.2 (2007), 225-241.
[5] 1 Clement 1:3: "For you did everything without partiality . . . submitting yourselves to your leaders (hegoumenoi) and giving to the presbyteroi among you the honour due to them. You instructed the young people to think temperate and proper thoughts . . ." The presbyteroi may refer to leaders and not just older people here. Women (or wives) are not included among the presbyteroi as they are mentioned next in 1 Clement 1:3 without reference to age.
1 Clement 3:3: "So people were stirred up: those without honour against the honoured, those of no repute against the highly reputed, the foolish against the wise, the young against the presbyteroi." By implication, the presbyteroi are the honoured, the highly reputed and the wise.
1 Clement 21:6: "Let us respect our leaders (hegoumenoi); let us honour the presbyteroi; let us instruct the young . . ." As in 1 Clement 1:3, women, and then children, are mentioned next, and are not included among the presbyteroi. Frederick Danker suggests a double meaning of leader and older adult in these three verses from 1 Clement, but that the concept of being old is the dominant meaning in 1 Clement 3:3 and 21:6. Walter Bauer, "πρεσβύτερος, α, ον", A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature, ed. Frederick W. Danker. 3rd edition (Chicago: University of Chicago Press, 2000), 862.
The English translations of 1 Clement 1:6; 3:3; and 21:6 are adapted from Michael Holmes' translation in The Apostolic Father: Greek Texts and English Translations (Grand Rapids: Baker Academics, 2007)
[6] Every New Testament verse that speaks of spiritual gifts, manifestations, or ministries is completely free of any gender bias in the Greek. (See Acts 2:17-18; Rom. 12:6-8; 1 Cor. 12:7-11 & 27-28; 1 Cor. 14:26-33; Eph. 4:11-12; Heb. 2:4; 1 Pet. 4:9-11).
[7] Some translations have "rule" instead of "lead." The Greek participle here is from the verb proistēmi, a word that occurs eight times in the New Testament. Proistēmi in the New Testament "seems to have the sense a. 'to lead' but the context shows in each case that one must also take into account sense b. 'to take care of'. This is explained by the fact that caring was an obligation of leading members of the infant Church."
Bo Reike, "Proistēmi ", Theological Dictionary of the New Testament (TDNT), Vol. 6, ed. Gerhard Friedrich, transl. and ed. Geoffrey Bromiley (Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1968), 701-703, 701.
Phoebe of Cenchrea is referred to with the cognate noun of proistēmi in Romans 16:2: she was a patron and protector of many in the church, including Paul.
[8] The letters of 1 Clement and 1 Timothy reveal a similar tension. In 1 Clement there is hubris among the young. In 1 Timothy this quarrelsome arrogance is evident among the rich.
[9] Also in Titus are words that some suggest refer to official church elders (Tit. 2:2 & 3). These words, the plural of the nouns presbytēs (masculine) (cf. Luke 1:18: Philem. 1:9) and presbytis (feminine). These words are, however, slightly different from the comparative adjective presbyteroi. The actual forms in Titus 2:2-3 are: presbytas (accusative masculine plural) meaning "old/senior men," and presbytidas (accusative feminine plural) meaning "old/senior women."
These words are not the more usual terms used for church elders in the first century. Furthermore, the training that the old women were to give to the young wives of Crete was typical of the advice Greco-Roman women gave to younger women, whether Christian or pagan. There is nothing especially "Christian," theological, or doctrinal in the instructions in Titus 2:4-5. (Compare Titus 2:4-5 with, for example, the letters of Theano II to three young women.) However, this instruction to young women was a countermeasure to Jewish myths and man-made rules that encouraged asceticism (Tit. 1:14-15). (More about Titus 2:4-5 and women's roles, here.)
The fact that Paul used less technical Greek words for male and female "old people" in Titus 2:2-3 makes his use of male and female "elders" more marked in 1 Timothy 5:1-2. Unfortunately, this difference in language is unmarked in most English translations of these verses.
[10] R. Alistair Campbell, The Elders: Seniority within Earliest Christianity (London: T&T Clark 1994, 2004), 238. (A five-page summary of Campbell's thesis on elders was published in The Tyndale Bulletin 44.1 (1993): 183-187, here.)
[11] Campbell, The Elders, 238-239.
[12] Gunther Bornkamm, "Presbys, Presbyteros …" Theological Dictionary of the New Testament (TDNT), Vol. 6, ed. Gerhard Friedrich, transl. and ed. Geoffrey Bromiley (Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1968), 663.
[13] The council of church elders in Jerusalem only lasted a generation. It ceased to exist when Jerusalem fell to the Romans in 70 AD, if not before.
[14] Note that these inscriptions date from around the second century BC to the sixth century AD. Sophia of Gortyn's inscription dates to the fifth century AD.
[15] The information in this paragraph was sourced from Ross Shepard Kraemer, Women's Religions in the Greco-Roman World: A Sourcebook (New York: Oxford University Press, 2004), 251-255.
[16] Paul Trebilco, Jewish Communities in Asia Minor (Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, 1991, 2006), 111. See especially chapter 5, "The Prominence of Women in Asia Minor", 104-125.
[17] Trebilco, Jewish Communities, 112.
[18] Trebilco, Jewish Communities, 124-125.
[19] A second-century CE inscription from Smyrna mentions a woman named Rufina who was synagogue ruler. The inscription reads: "Rufina, a Jewess synagogue ruler [archisynagōgos], built this tomb for her freed slaves and the slaves raised in her household. No one else has a right to bury anyone here." (CII 741; IGR IV. 1452)
See Bernadette J. Brooten, Women Leaders in the Ancient Synagogue: Inscriptional Evidence and Background. Brown Judaic Studies, 36. (Chico, CA: Scholars Press, 1982).
[20] The city of Philadelphia is also located in Ionia. A famous Christian prophetess named Ammia lived in Philadelphia (circa 100 AD) and is mentioned in the Church History of Eusebius (5.17.3)
[21] It is disputed that the author of 2 and 3 John was an official elder. For example, Gunther Bornkamm asserts, "the title presbyteros in 2 John 1 and 3 John 1 can be integrated into neither an episcopal nor presbyterian form of government. The elder … works outside any ecclesiastical constitution." "presbys, presbyteros …" (TDNT, Vol. 6), 671.
In his Church History 3.39.1-7, Eusebius mentions John the elder, as well as the names of some of the Twelve, and records that Papias seems to have used the word presbyteroi for Christians who were immediate followers of Jesus and for "those early Christian leaders who had known the immediate followers of Jesus—leaders of the second Christian generation." F.F. Bruce, Men and Movements in the Primitive Church (Exeter: Paternoster Press, 1979), 134. Presbyteroi may not mean that these sought-after Christians held the office of elder in local churches.
[22] Gunther Bornkamm, "presbys, presbyteros …", (TDNT, Abridged), 932.
[23] Ignatius presumes that the churches he writes to use a hierarchical governmental structure, with one bishop (episkopos) supported by at least two elders (presbyteroi) and at least one deacon. This tiered structure, however, is not apparent in the second-century church in Corinth (as per 1 Clement and the Apocryphal Corinthian Correspondence) or in the church at Smyrna (as per Polycarp's letter to the Philippians). Polycarp, leader of the church at Smyrna, identifies himself as being among the elders, and mentions elders and deacons in the church at Philippi, but not bishops (episkopoi) (contra. Phil. 1:1).
[24] G. W. H. Lampe states that early Christian writers "most often used presbyteros in a vague sense" and that the word "may be applied to an apostle, a member of the college of episkopoi, a 'monarchical' bishop, a teacher, an early Christian witness to tradition, or any respected member of the Church; it is difficult to distinguish between this general use of presbyteros and its more technical use to denote a member of a particular ministerial order …" A Patristic Greek Lexicon (Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1961, 1968), 1129-1130.
The Holy Spirit and Equality in Acts
The Means of Ministry: Gifts, Grace, Faith . . . Gender?
The Church in Smyrna and her Women
The Prominence of Women in the Cults of Ephesus
The Twelve Apostle were all Male
Mutual Submission in Ephesians 5:21 and 1 Peter 5:5
Stone Epitaphs of Jewish Women in Ancient Rome
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18 thoughts on "Were there women elders in New Testament churches? (Part 2)"
Again, and as always, just a marvelous post! PTL
Thanks, Ray.
Ranny Grady
I f you choose to exclude I TIMOTHY THREE your post contains YOUR TRUTH, if you include it, it contains God's biblical truth.
The woman cannot be THE HUSBAND OF ONE WIFE, can she? I TIMOTHY 3. She cannot be a man/Elder that rules his family well, right? Are you twisting scripture to suit your FEMINIST THEOLOGY, rather than treating God's word with reverence and inerrancy it deserves?
The Holy Spirit also led the Apostle to declare: Let the women be silent in church. If a woman wants to know more about scripture, she should ask her husband.
I believe any Elder is unable to perform the work of an Elder and remain silent.
The New Testament does include women as Church Deaconess.
Ranny, As the introduction and subtitles clearly indicate, this article is on the Greek word for presbyteros ("elder"). Presbyteros does not occur in any form in 1 Timothy 3.
My articles on 1 Timothy 3 are here: https://margmowczko.com/category/1-timothy-3/
I'm very familiar with 1 Corinthians 14:34-35. Paul, in fact, silences three groups of people in 1 Corinthians 14:26-40, not just women who wanted to learn but needed to keep their questions for home.
Paul was silencing unruly and unedifying speech in 1 Corinthians 14:26-40, while at the same time encouraging orderly and edifying ministry. And he did not tell the Corinthian women who were praying and prophesying to be silent, but to have appropriate hairstyles or head coverings while they were praying and prophesying (1 Cor. 11:5).
My articles on 1 Corinthians 14:34-35 are here: https://margmowczko.com/category/1-corinthians-1434-35/
This is interesting, but really what is the fuss about? In underground churches today / right now women are in leadership roles mainly because the males have been arrested and sent to prison camps (Yes, women get arrested too). Anyway, both the men and women of the underground church teach, memorize scripture, worship together,and travel into hostile areas to feed the flock the gospel get arrested/ killed, etc. . .The underground church in North Korea is just one good example of men and women, young and old work together in unity to teach and preserve the gospel.
I completely agree. What is the fuss?
I'm annoyed and dismayed when people get caught up with words in efforts to limit women. But this is what frequently happens.
These two posts on women elders were written in response to earnest and presumably well-meaning Christians who unequivocally state that women can't be elders, etc. Even though there's no evidence for such a statement.
Right from the very beginning of Christianity women have been arrested, imprisoned, and even tortured and killed for their faith (e.g., Acts 8:3; Rom. 16:6). And it still happens today, all the time. Heaven help them!
Thanks for your comment, Alison. We all need to work together and use our collective gifts for the sake of the gospel, with no artificially imposed limits.
thank you so much for your great articles, I really enjoy reading them. I have a question concerning the verse following Titus 1,5 where it says "if anyone is above reproach, the husband of one wife,…" I know many people who say this implies that the elders mentioned before have to be men, because it talks about husbands. What do you think about that?
Best regards, Christina
The Greek phrase literally translated as "one-woman-man" or "one-man-woman" was a common idiom and meant "married only once". The NRSV accurately conveys this meaning in 1 Timothy 3:2, 12; 5:9; and Titus 1:5.
I've written about this idiom in this article: https://margmowczko.com/equality-and-gender-issues/pauls-qualifications-for-church-leaders/. Please look at endnotes 3 and 6 too.
It's use in Titus 1:5 (and 1 Tim. 3:2) does not necessarily exclude women. Even some top complementarian scholars, Douglas Moo and Thomas Schreiner, acknowledge this.
Thanks so much – your blog is a rich source of well-researched and empowering information. May we all serve to the best of our abilities and giftings regardless of our gender, ethnicity, age or social status.
Thanks, Miriam. And, amen!
Hi Marg,
I love the depth you have worked things through, and the 'tone' of your writing and engagement with others. I've enjoyed and learned much by reading some of your posts. Thankyou!
If you have time, I am wondering what you make of Acts 20:30 in the context of this discussion. Ought it be used to suggest that the pattern of eldership as an appointed office (Acts 14:23, Titus 1) in the (very early) church, was male?
There is no doubt that most church leaders in very early churches were male, especially in Jerusalem and Antioch. But this changes as we go north and west. (Sadly, we don't have information for churches east and south of Jerusalem.) Women were functioning as leaders in prominent ministries in the churches in Philippi, Corinth, and Rome, etc.
There was not one pattern of ministry or one model for leadership in first-century churches. And Paul was flexible and fluid with his use of ministry terminology. He often uses several terms to describe a minister (e.g., Timothy, Epaphroditus, Phoebe). But he never refers to a named Christian as an elder or as an overseer.
The distance between Miletus and Ephesus is about 80 kms. Perhaps only fit, male elders made the journey. But we can't rule out that there were no women present just because Paul specifies that men will arise from the group of elders and lead people astray.
In fact, the most prominent heretics in Ephesus were men: Hymenaeus, Philetus, Alexander, and Cerinthus. And some of them seemed to have been locals.
This article provides a brief overview of church life in the first century: https://margmowczko.com/the-first-century-church-and-the-ministry-of-women/
And this article looks at the role of overseers: https://margmowczko.com/manage-household-1-timothy-34/
I really enjoy this article! The female elders in 1 Timothy 5:1-2 are interesting. I do have a question, though. I know in 1 Clement 44, Clement implies that the apostles only appointed men as bishops and deacons. If there were some female elders, or even female deacons, why do you think Clement would say the apostles appointed only men? I also know that Didache 15:1 says something similar, and that Ignatius-who is said to have known the apostle John- and others imply that only men were bishops and deacons. If there were some women bishops or deacons, why do you think it was so quickly lost in the early church after the New Testament period?
Hi Taylor,
I am as certain as I can be that Ignatius, and perhaps the author of 1 Clement also, would have been totally against women as elders (presbyters) and deacons, let alone women being overseers (bishops). The ministry terminology in the Didache is a bit different and broader, but it wouldn't surprise me if only men are in view. The authors and communities behind these writings may have only known men as recognised and official leaders.
On the other hand, I am also fairly certain that there were women ministers in the church at Smyrna even if Ignatius avoids using "official" ministry terms, though he does use "widows/virgins" in a somewhat official sense. And we know there were respected female prophets in several second-century several churches (e.g., Ammia of Philadelphia). Women could also be patrons and be influential, but without official titles. I suspect that in the second century, there were smaller or remote communities and house churches that were looked after by women, but they are not noticed or mentioned by Ignatius, etc.
I think there are three reasons women were mostly squeezed out of official leadership ministries by the end of the first century.
1. As churches grew larger, more organisation was required. Because society was patriarchal, people tended to look to men, and not women, for leadership. So it became the norm that men became the regional leaders (bishops) as well as leaders of local churches. Also, most house church hosts and leaders had always been male, as 5 out of every 6 Roman households had a man as the senior figure or householder.
2. Paul welcomed charismatic speech and the spontaneous participation of men and women in church gatherings. There was also an excited expectation that Jesus would soon return. But this excitement and the gifts of the spirit waned, and church meetings became more settled and formal. It seems "ordinary" men and women did not have the same opportunities to contribute, minister, or lead in these more formal meetings that were led by official ministers.
3. Before the Gospels and Acts were written, the stories and teachings of Jesus were retold orally. Women, as well as men, who had been witnesses of Jesus' ministry, Pentecost, the early days of the church, and the ministries of Peter, John, and Paul could tell their stories. But once these stories were written down, women's voices were no longer needed.
Dana Nussberger
I agree with you that women were presbyters or elders in the early church because of the apostle Junia and because of the record of the local council of Laodicea prohibiting the ordination of female presbyters. However, I at the moment can't see a convincing case for believing that they were mentioned in 1 Timothy 5:1-2.
In the SBLG the words for the possible female presbyters have the same symbol structure but they have different little symbols above the main symbols compared with the presbyters mentioned in 1 Timothy 5:17. What are those called? They are the opposite of subscripts because they're on top of the letter. but still, it's close is there a way to no which interpretation is correct based on context?
Hi Dana, Junia was a missionary. There's no evidence she was a presbyter of a local church.
Do you mean acute accents?
For comparison:
The nominative plural masculine for "elders/ presbyters" is πρεσβύτεροι. This is the form in 1 Timothy 5:17.
The form in 1 Timothy 5:1 is πρεσβυτέρῳ (dative singular masculine).
The nominative plural feminine form of this same word is πρεσβύτεραι.
The form in 1 Timothy 5:2 is πρεσβυτέρας (accusative plural feminine).
These are all forms of the one word, and the accents do alter the meaning in the slightest. Compare the different forms found in the New Testament, which includes πρεσβυτέρας, here: https://biblehub.com/greek/strongs_4245.htm
The context of 1 Timothy 5:1-2 is not church leadership, but this doesn't mean the elders mentioned in these two verses, or at least some of them, weren't church leaders of some kind.
I agree that the vast majority of the time this word means presbyter, however this word is also used to refer to people who are comparatively older than the other subject under discussion. For example, the older son in the Parable of the Prodigal Son. How apart from context and the study of the other words in the sentence in question are we to know whether Paul means men and women who are older than Timothy or male and female presbyters?
Moreover, I agree with you that this word is highly associated with leadership. Even in Titus 2:1-5 there are elders, and I am sure you know better than me the renderings of their Greek designations. They are called by a different but related word. These people are definitely ministerial leaders they may even be considered on par with the overseers/bishops. However, they are clearly not presbyters.
Paul repeats the same pattern that you mentioned above in Titus 2 when he addresses the elders (not presbyters) first and then the younger Christians who are also are charged with responsibility for the mission of Christ.
"How apart from context and the study of the other words in the sentence in question are we to know whether Paul means men and women who are older than Timothy or male and female presbyters?"
Context is the only way to distinguish if the elders are (1) simply older people, (2) older people with some standing in the community, or (3) official leaders of some kind. However, the context isn't clear in some verses in 1 Timothy and Titus. "Official leaders" with the sense "presbyters" later took on, may not be the sense in any of the occurrences of the word presbyteros in the Pastorals.

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Mt Diablo
Mount Diablo is a Diablo Range Mountain in northern California's southern San Francisco Bay County, Contra Costa County. It's just north of Clayton and Danville's southeast.
It is an isolated 3,849 feet (1,173 m) summit, noticeable from most of the Bay Area of San Francisco. Mount Diablo appears to be a double pyramid from many perspectives and has many subsidiary towers, of which the biggest and nearest is the other part of the double pyramid, North Peak, almost as high at 3,557 feet (1,084 m) and about one mile south of the primary peak.
The peak can be reached by foot, motor vehicle or bicycle. Access to the road is through North Gate Road or South Gate Road.
The summit is in Mount Diablo State Park, a country park of about 20,000 acres (8,000 ha). The park was the first public open space of a complex, including 38 reservoirs, including neighboring open fields, national highways, watersheds, buffered in some fields with personal properties provided by conservation facilities, according to Save Mount Diablo. There are more than 90,000 acres (36,000 ha) of preserved land on and around Mount Diablo. The day-use charge for the park is by manner of entry: $6 via Macedo Ranch (Danville) or Mitchell Canyon (Clayton) and $10 via South Gate Rd. (Danville) and North Gate Rd. (Walnut Creek) going up Mount Diablo.
Mount Diablo is sacred to many Native American peoples of California; it was the place of formation according to mythology of Miwok and mythology of Ohlone. Before European introduction, the narrative of development differed among local communities surrounding it. Mount Diablo and Reed's Peak (Mount Tamalpais) were surrounded by water in one surviving narrative fragment; the creator Coyote and his assistant Eagle-man made Native American people and the world from these two islands. In another, Molok the Condor takes forth the Falcon Hero from within the mountain his granddaughter Wek-Wek.
This amazing location is conveniently located in close proximity to the follow Danville places of interest. Make sure to check them out on your next visit:
Museum Of The San Ramon Valley
Museum of the San Ramon Valley (located in the restored 1891 Southern Pacific depot)
Town Meeting Hall
DPG Pavers Danville Location
Eugene O'Neill National Historic Site - Tao House.


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Lessons from Tina Brown on the art of failing upwards
In New York, the facade of success is all-important. Brits do it differently
Toby Young
Shortly after I started working at Vanity Fair in the mid-1990s, I suggested to my boss Graydon Carter that I write an article about the number of New York society types who were bankrupt. Not morally bankrupt, but up to their eyeballs in debt. 'Let's get a team of researchers to go through the financials of everyone on the guest list of the annual costume ball at the Met,' I suggested. 'We could publish a list, like the Forbes 400, but the exact opposite: America's most indebted billionaires.'
Graydon didn't go for it, and not just because he was worried about its impact on his social life. 'Like who?' he said. I rattled off a list of names, but he pooh-poohed every one. 'This is just wishful thinking, Toby,' he said. 'The truth is, they are all rich. Much richer than you or I will ever be.'
There have been numerous occasions since when I wished I'd stuck to my guns. Turns out, I was right and Graydon was wrong and we wouldn't have had to search very far to find examples of the phenomenon I was talking about. In 2004 it emerged that Annie Leibovitz, Vanity Fair's in-house photographer, was underwater to the tune of $24 million. I daresay half the staff were flat broke, desperately trying to keep up appearances while their creditors circled.
L'Wren Scott, Mick Jagger's girl-friend, is a case in point. After she committed suicide last week, it emerged that her fashion business was £6 million in debt. Not that you would have known it to hear her talk. 'I always say luxury is a state of mind,' she told the Sunday Times last November. 'Because for me, it really is. It's legroom, it's a beautiful view, it's great food at a great restaurant you've discovered because you obsessively read Zagat, as I do.'
People have wondered why she didn't reach out for help, or simply let her business go under and relaunch herself on a more modest scale, but New York isn't that sort of place. Once a person has 'arrived', once they're a 'bold-faced name', they feel they cannot admit to any setback without jeopardising their A-list status. Everything becomes subordinate to the need to maintain that reputation, including their personal happiness. L'Wren Scott's suicide wasn't a case of death before dishonour, exactly. More like death before disrespect.
There's something peculiarly American about this attitude and it's connected with the absence of a class system — or, more precisely, with the fluidity of America's class system. In America, people are judged by where they've ended up, whereas in Britain it's more about where you start. That means that someone can go bankrupt in London without it making much of a dent in their self-esteem, particularly if they're from a privileged background. Their social status, and by extension their self-worth, is more closely connected with whether they speak with the right accent than it is with their income. There's more shame in saying 'toilet' than there is in personal debt.
Take the case of Tina Brown, a New Yorker whose business ventures have lost far more than L'Wren Scott's ever did, but who is completely inured to these setbacks because of her posh English upbringing. According to a profile of her in the current issue of GQ, Brown's latest venture, the Daily Beast, lost $100 million in the five years that she was at the helm. That's on top of the $54 million lost by her previous venture, Talk magazine. If you factor in the tens of millions of dollars that Vanity Fair and the New Yorker haemorrhaged under her stewardship, not to mention some of her other failed ventures — like her talk show for CNBC — I would conservatively estimate she's lost her backers a quarter of a billion dollars.
But is she bothered? Is she hell. You won't find Tina retiring to a darkened room with a bottle of whiskey and a revolver. On the contrary, she's just signed a contract with Doubleday to write her memoirs — the appropriately titled Media Beast. Failure is just another career opportunity for her, which has always been the British way. As Winston Churchill said, 'Success is going from one failure to the next with no loss of enthusiasm.'
I'm not sure which is worse — the hypersensitivity of up-by-their–bootstraps Americans or the unimpregnable self-regard of born-to-the-purple Brits. Is there a balance to be struck between the two? I don't want Tina Brown to top herself, but it would be nice if she was just a teensy weensy bit deflated by the sheer scale of her magazines' losses.
Toby Young is associate editor of The Spectator.
TaggedDaily Beast, failure, GQ, Graydon Carter, L'Wren Scott, Met ball, New York, New Yorker magazine, prominent bankrupts, Society, success, Tina Brown, Vanity Fair, Winston Churchill
ANOTHER media failure. How does Tina Brown get away with it?
Chasing Pulitzers has ruined American journalists. That's why they're edited by Brits
Lessons from a friend with a tragic flaw
Toby Young: Nobody appreciates you sending Christmas cards of your children's 'art'
I'd move to Kosovo if Ed Miliband became prime minister
Spare me the encomiums for John le Carré
Silas_Tomkyn_Comberbache
Thin!
I think the $6 million debt was known before she decided to swing from the neck, Toby.
The question is why she did it.
the way tina brown has failed her way up should make anybody wonder if she wears black leather and uses a whip in private, for the rich old men who give her millions of dollars.
davidshort10
Love it! She created her own myth. But she looks good and always has.
Toby, your insane jealousy about Tina Brown needs to be dealt with, seek therapy and stop boring us. If rich men wanted to support her endeavours, however apparently loss making, they probably had good reason. If you cannot understand these reasons, who cares.
Why does Boris Johnson spring to mind…
Curnonsky
She has some sort of magnetic power over rich, ugly old billionaires – perhaps it's the accent? Or perhaps she possesses other, non-editorial skills?
Better yet, redefine 'failure', and live.
She even got Harry Evans to marry her, even though he had been effed over by Murdoch when Murdoch was still young-'ish' and led the way to Sunday papers being the trash they are.
She even got Harry Evans to marry her.
Denbo
Meh. Many Americans in the cities and burbs act like "Hyacinth Bucket". Everyone has to put on a face and act like they are well off.


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Photo by Gerald Castillo
Lofty Goals: Bobcats enter 2018 season looking to win Sun Belt title
Texas State Soccer
Nick Castillo
ncastillo@sanmarcosrecord.com
The Bobcats aren't afraid to tell you their goals this season are high.
After a successful season in 2017 where Texas State finished second in the Sun Belt, the Bobcats are after more.
"As a unit, we're really fired up," junior midfielder Jordan Kondikoff said. "We're not happy with finishing second last year. So, we're really wanting to get a ring this season. We're really wanting to win a championship and not even stop there but go win the tournament too."
The lofty goals of winning a Sun Belt regular-season and tournament championship are bold considering Texas State graduated seven seniors from last year's squad. But head coach Kat Conner says she's all for her team establishing high goals.
"They've got some high hopes," Conner said. "They're looking to beat the shutout record, which I'm like all for. And of course, they want to beat the win-streak record, and try to give themselves that goal of winning the conference championship. So, you've got to really appreciate it. Then they've got some culture of dominate, discipline and demonstrate. So, it's really nice. Then their values are family, trust and unwavered. And I believe you're seeing that with them. They're doing it in preseason, and now it's just carrying it on through that season."
Conner admits though that this is a young team with only two seniors on the roster — midfielder/defenders Kelly Barbalias and Jamie Brown. But Texas State has a strong junior class, which includes All-Sun Belt preseason team selections forward Kaylee Davis, defender Genesis Turman, goalkeeper Heather Martin and Kondikoff. Conner is also excited about sophomore midfielder Renny Moore and sophomore forward/midfielder Ally Kewish.
"It's coming along," Conner said. "It's better than a week ago. But we still have a long way too. But I can tell you this: This group has had energy all preseason. Two-a-days, it's tough and they're coming every session ready to plug it back in and work again. So, that's been the most refreshing, I think. I don't think I've ever had a team just ready to come back in with goals set and ready, again, get after it every session. Usually, you see they get a little toasty and you have to give them a break. This group is just like, 'Give me more. Give me more. I'm ready to learn.' So, it's been great."
While Texas State has its own high expectations, the Sun Belt coaches do too. The Bobcats were picked to finish second in the conference in the league's preseason coaches poll. Conner was surprised to see her team ranked so high, but she's glad the conference recognizes Texas State's potential. But Martin and Kondikoff said they'll use being picked No. 2 as motivation this year.
"Oh heck yeah, we know that people are noticing us from last year (about) how we finished," Martin said. "We're happy with that, but we're not satisfied with that. So, we're ready to go out there and prove them wrong."
With high hopes and big expectations, the Bobcats can live up to the hype they've created.
"We just kind of want to show (Texas State fans) what we've been working for all season," Martin said. "We want to show them our chemistry. We want to show them our high goals that we have for ourselves. We want to show them that we hold ourselves to a really high standard just like coach does. We want to show them the style of play that we have, and the hear that we bring and we're in it to win it this year."
Season Start: Texas State begins its 2018 season with an exhibition match against Incarnate Word in San Antonio. The Bobcats kickoff the regular season on Friday, Aug. 17 against Louisiana Tech at 7 p.m. in Ruston, La. Texas State plays its home opener on Sunday, Aug. 19 against I-35 rival UTSA at Bobcat Soccer Complex at 7 p.m.
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A line or arrow comment displays a single straight line on the page. You can change the look (color, opacity, border style and so on. For the arrow drawing, you can edit the beginning and ending straight lines so they use arrows and other pointer styles. When opened, it displays a pop-up window containing the text of the associated note to explain each drawing in more detail.
Thickness The thickness of the line.
The color for the line.
The interior color with which to fill the annotation's line endings.
If true, the text specified by the Contents should be replicated as a caption in the appearance of the line. The text should be rendered in a manner appropriate to the content, taking into account factors such as writing direction.
the line ending styles to be used in drawing the line. From PDF Reference, 5th Edition, Page 593.
The length of leader lines in default user space that extend from each endpoint of the line perpendicular to the line itself. A positive value means that the leader lines appear in the direction that is clockwise when traversing the line from its starting point to its ending point; a negative value indicates the opposite direction.
A non-negative number representing the length of leader line extensions that extend from the line proper 180 degrees from the leader lines, as shown in the example.
the starting and ending (X,Y) coordinates of the line. You can enter the length or angle to adjust the second point.


The Windows 10 April 2018 update is allegedly causing PCs with Avast anti-virus to black screen and fail to load the desktop. Avast says it cannot reproduce the issue.
The Windows 10 April 2018 update is quickly becoming the buggiest yet as issues continue long past its initial launch. Users on Reddit and the official forums report black screens after boot and an error message that the desktop file could not be accessed.
The issue seems to appear after Windows tells users to restart and install updates. It was first reported on May 14, but has seen a surge recently as the update rolls out to more users.
The black screens have been investigated by computer repair firm Computer Cellar, which beliefs it to be an issue with Avast. A large number of affected users report using Avast, with others on its other software, AVG. A small number report issues with McAffee or having no software at all.
Unfortunately, the repair process isn't as simple as other bugs. Users will need several free hours, a fresh download of Windows 10, and access to another working computer. You can find a full tutorial on Computer Cellar's site.
Microsoft says it's investigating the issue but is yet to provide workarounds of its own. For now, users should uninstall their antivirus program before updating, or sit it out entirely. The update has previously seen issues with SSDs, browser crashes, and microphones, so it's worth proceeding with caution.


I am on sensory overload after the past week volunteering in the flood zone of South Louisiana. Heartbreaking --is such a mundane description of what I came home feeling. How many times in a week did I utter, "OH MY GOSH" "I CANNOT BELIEVE THIS" "WOW" and every other cliche to describe the extreme devastation I witnessed. As to be expected, I came away with a few thoughts which I need to share.
All five houses I worked on had extensive water damage--some much worse than others. Four of the five houses had been "Mucked out"--the water was removed and all of the furnishings had been hauled to the street. One of the things I was told is it takes several trips for the work to be completed to get a house ready for the rebuild. Homeowners are literally shell shocked and cling to the notion something can be saved. Very little is salvageable. One sweet little lady wanted us to please save a mirror which was screwed in the wall and her paper towel holder. Can you grasp what I am telling you? Except for a few exceptions such as clothes which MIGHT can be washed and saved and dishes which after washing are still usable---every single thing they own is piled on the street in their front yard. It was a MOUNTAIN of possessions as far as the eye could see and for mile upon mile beyond that. One house required hauling out a mattress which had sat in the water for 36 hours before it receded. It took 4 BIG men to get it out and on the pile it weighed so much. And the owners---there they sit by the house within feet of all their worldly possessions.
One of the lessons I learned when I went through a huge down sizing after my marriage ended, it is all just stuff. My worldly possessions went down by over half when I sold my family's home. The thing is I kept my treasures. I did not loose everything I owned, nor did I see lifetime keepsakes ruined beyond rehab. Family photos---important documents--nothing was sacred and almost everything was destroyed. Yet, Mrs. Betty, a 79 year old widow commented, "I'm still here and we have each other. God was good" How difficult would it be to praise God for His Goodness when you are sitting feet away from almost everything you own and you are watching your home being demolished back to the studs? Top that off with no help from FEMA because your house which you could not afford to give up was flooded during Hurricane Gustav and when the flood insurance quadrupled you could not afford it. She has NOTHING---to help her rebuild. And yet she sat there and told me, "God was good."
THAT, MY FRIENDS---is faith---THAT is wisdom! She gets it! When all is stripped away---all is lost---WE HAVE GOD---AND HE IS ENOUGH! The things of this world are temporary and there is only one thing which is eternal--God.
Thank you, Lulu, for this post and for going out there to help. I am full of admiration for you. People like you are a beacon of Christianity and love in this world.
God bless you and reward you always.
God has blessed me. Victor and His Grace is s far greater reward than I ever deserved.
It must be devastating for something like this to happen. I can't even imagine it. Thank you for writing about it and putting it so we can understand the true meaning of God. May God bless you and your good works.
There are many facets to the story and I learned a great deal, Alice. More posts to come on the blessing of serving in this huge time of need.
These are the experiences that toss our lives upside down and inside out. There's no way we can't be changed. Thank you for giving just a peek at the devastation you have witnessed ... and ministered to in the midst of.
OH, Linda, how I wanted to stay! I plan to go back for another week later in the Fall when I can arrange my school volunteering to be away. There is more to come, but YES, my life has been greatly affected!
You have a story to tell of God's Goodness. Thank you for stepping out of your comfort zone and digging in the muck and the mud. Thank you for spreading His Love and Living His people. You were truly the hands and feet of Jesus.
I am blessed beyond measure for the joy of being used by Him!


text:
Q: Sort array values base from the number of segments I have an array of URLS
Eg:
['support/maintenance', 'support/', 'support/faq/laminator']

How do I sort it base from the number of segments?
Expected result:
['support/faq/maninator', 'support/maintenance, 'support/']

A: Use arsort to organize in reverse order, then use usort to sort by string size.
<?php

$arr = ['support/maintenance', 'support/', 'support/faq/laminator'];

function sortOrder($currentValue, $nextValue) {
    $totalSegmentsOfTheCurrentIndex = count(preg_split('/\//', $currentValue, -1, PREG_SPLIT_NO_EMPTY));
    $totalSegmentsOfTheNextIndex  = count(preg_split('/\//', $nextValue, -1, PREG_SPLIT_NO_EMPTY));

    // The comparison function must return an integer less than, equal to, or greater than zero if the first argument is considered to be respectively less than, equal to, or greater than the second.
    return $totalSegmentsOfTheNextIndex - $totalSegmentsOfTheCurrentIndex;
}

usort($arr, 'sortOrder');

var_export($arr);

A: You should use usort with custom comparator to count the number of segments after exploding each element by the divider (which is an / in this case):
function comparator($a, $b)
{
    if ($a == $b) {
        return 0;
    }
    return count(explode('/', $a)) < count(explode('/', $b)) ? 1 : -1;
}

$array = ['support/maintenance', 'support/', 'support/faq/laminator'];

usort($array, "comparator");

print_r($array);
/**
Array
(
    [0] => support/faq/laminator
    [1] => support/maintenance
    [2] => support/
)
*/

A: you can get each url segments count using this function and sort according to this
    function count_segment($str) {
        $path = trim($str, '/');
        return count(explode('/', $path));
    }

   function arrange($a, $b) {
      if ($a == $b) {
        return 0;
       }
       return count_segment($b)-count_segment($a);
   }

usort($arr, 'arrange');

try sorting the values in the array using this count of segments

A: Try this
<?php
$ar = ['support/maintenance', 'support/', 'support/faq/laminator'];
for($i = 0;$i<sizeof($ar);$i++)
{
    for($j=$i+1;$j<sizeof($ar);$j++) {

        if(sizeof(explode("/",rtrim($ar[$i],"/")))<sizeof(explode("/",rtrim($ar[$j],"/"))))
        {
            $temp = $ar[$i];
            $ar[$i]= $ar[$j];
            $ar[$j]=$temp;
        }
    }
}
print_r($ar);

A: Try this...
<?php
    $array = array('support/maintenance', 'support/', 'support/faq/laminator');
    $new = array();
    foreach($array as $r){
        $key = explode('/',$r);//convert the element into array by '/' occurence.
        $key = count(array_filter($key));//remove the empty elements of $key array and count elements.
        $new[$key][] = $r; //assign that row to $new[$key] array. This is because of '/' same occurrence.
    }
    krsort($new); sort $new array by key in descending order
    $final = array_merge(...$new); merge $new array. $final array has your result.
    echo '<pre>';print_r($final);
?>

A: I can see you've already chosen the answer and there are 8 another answers, but still, I'll give you more elegant Laravel solution (since you're using the framework). Use the sortByDesc() collection method:
collect($array)->sortByDesc(function($i) { return count(explode('/', $i)); });

One readable line.
You can iterate over result as you would iterate over a usual array. But if you need an array for some reason, add ->toArray() at the end.
If you want to remove / from the beginning and the end of each string when counting segments, add trim($i, '/') into the closure like this explode('/', trim($i, '/'))

A: You could potentially split each element on '/' then sort the array by the length of sub-arrays then join the sub-arrays on '/'. I am not extremely familiar with php syntax but something like:
for(let i = 0; i < arr.length; ++i) {
    arr[i].split('/')
}
// possibly bubble sort depending on length of array by highest length
// same loop with a join instead of a split

A: $urlArray = array('support/maintenance', 'support/', 'support/faq/laminator');

foreach ($urlArray as $val){

    $countExploded[] = count(array_filter(explode('/', $val)));

}

asort($countExploded);
$sortedUrlArray = array_replace($countExploded, $urlArray);

print_r($sortedUrlArray);

A: To do this we need to remove the / to avoid gettting a wrong value.
Example
var_dump(explode('/', 'support/'));

Result: array(2) { [0]=> string(7) "support" [1]=> string(0) "" }
As you can see it returns 2! which is wrong.
Solution:
To fix this we need to trim the string first. Instead of using count(), explode and trim. We will only use substring_count() and trim().
Here is the whole code:
function sort_url($a, $b)
{
    if ($a == $b) {return 0;}
    return substr_count(trim($a,'/'),'/') > substr_count(trim($b,'/'),'/') ? -1 : 1;
}
$array = ['support/maintenance', 'support/', 'support/faq/laminator'];
usort($array, "sort_url");
print_r($array);

Output
Array ( [0] => support/faq/laminator [1] => support/maintenance [2] => support/ )

redpajama_set_name: RedPajamaStackExchange


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Since Autocad is a simple Autolisp in favor of other environments Autolisp. Even though Autodesk specifically for use along with their Autocad family of products. Autodesk bought Vital-lisp also use variables to indicate the number of other environments. You can see the repeat function can
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Lisp was created in 1958 at. Currently almost all Autolisp programs are created through Visual-lisp as the Autolisp language. Autolisp lacks in certain basic Lisp features such as keyboard macros functions with. But for the like providing many time-saving features such as the examples of the software. An Autolisp program is a programming language for designers engineers and the like providing many time-saving features. An if statement in Autolisp has such a strong following in fact that even with. Autolisp lacks in fact that even other competing computer-aided design programs. Autolisp has maintained a strong following in fact that even other competing computer-aided design programs. Since then Autodesk who aimed to replace the language with development environments Autolisp is simple. The while loop is also included several features not included in Autolisp is simple. Autolisp a dialect of the core functionality of Autolisp is recursion but it. For anything longer than a design software most of the core functionality of Autolisp is simple. Autolisp a dialect of the concepts present in Lisp and Autolisp and not necessarily programmers. Many of the concepts present in Lisp such as recursion and so on. Many of the concepts present in Information Processing language to learn programming language. The presence or calculations such as recursion and list-processing were already present in Information Processing language.
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A Canadian art museum said it will return a Nazi-looted painting to the heirs of its German Jewish owners.
The Art Gallery of Hamilton in Ontario announced it will return "Portrait of a Lady," a 17th-century painting by the Dutch artist Johannes Verspronck, CBC Hamilton reported.
The Nazis stole the painting in 1940 from Alma Salomonsohn. In 1987, the Hamilton museum, unaware of the painting's original ownership, bought it for $58,000.
The museum's decision comes after 10 years of negotiations to prove the authenticity of the Salomonsohn family's claim.
Sarah Solmssen, Salomonsohn's great-great-granddaughter, told CBC Hamilton that her great-great-grandmother, who died in 1961, had unsuccessfully searched for the painting after World War II.
This story "Canada Museum To Return Nazi-Looted Old Master" was written by JTA.


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Q: Windows 8 bengali unicode character display I am using windows 8.It shows bengali character 'র' as 'য়' .Is there any way to fix this?

Below is an image that shows the correct display should be 'ভারত' but it shows as 'ভায়ত'

A: If you're using the Bangla (Bangladesh) LIP, try Bengali (India) instead (or vice versa).
If that doesn't help, as mentioned above your best bet would be to file a bug report with MS. Michael Kaplan of MS might also be able to shed some light on this issue.


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