text:
'If I don't get a job in six months' time, I can see myself being back in there': Post-prison employment experiences of people in Canberra
Caroline Doyle, Sophie Yates, Lorana Bartels, Anthony Hopkins, Helen Taylor
Canberra Law School
Research has consistently shown that gaining employment after release helps to reduce recidivism, but also that people who have been in prison face many barriers to finding secure employment. This article presents qualitative data from the experiences of 11 people who had been released from prison in the Australian Capital Territory. We focus on the challenges these participants encountered with obtaining employment post-release, including not having access to suitable housing, criminal background checks, managing post-release commitments (such as attending substance abuse rehabilitation appointments) and a lack of confidence in approaching potential employers. Consequently, we recommend that policymakers ensure that there is a dedicated specialised employment team within the custodial environment providing individualised support for both unsentenced and sentenced people, both while they are incarcerated and post-release.
Australian Journal of Social Issues
https://doi.org/10.1002/ajs4.197
10.1002/ajs4.197
Dive into the research topics of ''If I don't get a job in six months' time, I can see myself being back in there': Post-prison employment experiences of people in Canberra'. Together they form a unique fingerprint.
correctional institution Social Sciences 100%
time Social Sciences 40%
substance abuse Social Sciences 26%
rehabilitation Social Sciences 24%
employer Social Sciences 23%
Territories Social Sciences 22%
confidence Social Sciences 22%
Doyle, C., Yates, S., Bartels, L., Hopkins, A., & Taylor, H. (2022). 'If I don't get a job in six months' time, I can see myself being back in there': Post-prison employment experiences of people in Canberra. Australian Journal of Social Issues, 57(3), 627-643. https://doi.org/10.1002/ajs4.197
Doyle, Caroline ; Yates, Sophie ; Bartels, Lorana et al. / 'If I don't get a job in six months' time, I can see myself being back in there' : Post-prison employment experiences of people in Canberra. In: Australian Journal of Social Issues. 2022 ; Vol. 57, No. 3. pp. 627-643.
@article{37a1871bb57d4d9094ddb50bbe72bed8,
title = "{\textquoteleft}If I don't get a job in six months' time, I can see myself being back in there{\textquoteright}: Post-prison employment experiences of people in Canberra",
abstract = "Research has consistently shown that gaining employment after release helps to reduce recidivism, but also that people who have been in prison face many barriers to finding secure employment. This article presents qualitative data from the experiences of 11 people who had been released from prison in the Australian Capital Territory. We focus on the challenges these participants encountered with obtaining employment post-release, including not having access to suitable housing, criminal background checks, managing post-release commitments (such as attending substance abuse rehabilitation appointments) and a lack of confidence in approaching potential employers. Consequently, we recommend that policymakers ensure that there is a dedicated specialised employment team within the custodial environment providing individualised support for both unsentenced and sentenced people, both while they are incarcerated and post-release.",
keywords = "employment, post release, prison, recidivism, reintegration",
author = "Caroline Doyle and Sophie Yates and Lorana Bartels and Anthony Hopkins and Helen Taylor",
note = "Publisher Copyright: {\textcopyright} 2021 Australian Social Policy Association. Funding Information: Three participants were actively looking for work at the time of interview. They felt they had strengths to offer employers, but faced significant barriers to employment. Carl, who had work experience in building and truck-driving, was in his forties and had been in prison more than once. He was in social housing and wanted to "live", rather than just "survive". Aaron, an Aboriginal man in his fifties, had spent many years in prison. He wanted to stay out of prison this time and felt that employment was the "only thing that will change" that. He had a debt to pay off, as a result of family members living in his social housing property and not paying rent while he was inside, but felt fortunate to have accommodation. He had a teenage son and wanted to avoid his son getting a criminal record: "Because basically it mucks you up…I don't want him doing what I'm doing". Renee was in her thirties, living in transitional housing (for people who are homeless or at risk of becoming homeless) and was attending rehabilitation programmes, while looking for work. She had also been in prison before and this time had found the post-release experience financially challenging, due to the expense of rehabilitation and transitional housing, combined with food and other bills: "I think that's why a lot of people do go back in, because jail is a breeze, to be honest. I've got to say it's a lot easier in there". All three felt their strengths included drawing on their lived experience, to support other people in the criminal justice system. Carl had been doing volunteer work and felt he was "good at helping people and…a pretty good communicator". He felt he would enjoy working somewhere like Prisoners Aid: "If I know the people, they know me, they know I'm not going to judge them". Renee had previous experience in government and help-desk roles and felt she had marketable skills, such as problem-solving and customer service. She saw herself as "one of the lucky ones…that was able to turn my life around" and, given her experiences in the criminal justice system, would like to train as a case manager, "so that I can help people that have been in my position with addiction". Aaron had approached an Indigenous business centre with his business plan, which had the objective of "teaching young fellas respect, how to make money without breaking the law", and needed a $5000 start-up grant, but "they went {\textquoteleft}no, it's not a sustainable business plan{\textquoteright}". He was frustrated, because no Aboriginal people worked at the centre. He wanted to redo his business plan, because he saw the benefit of his lived experience in the criminal justice system and mentoring others:Because I reckon, if I can get it up and running and get some of those young fellas that's going into the AMC to go, listen, instead of sending them to the AMC, can you make them do this for about six months, eight months? Instead of sending him to jail. He can learn about his culture, and get the idea in his head no, I don't have to do crime to make money. I can do this. Because I reckon, if I can get it up and running and get some of those young fellas that's going into the AMC to go, listen, instead of sending them to the AMC, can you make them do this for about six months, eight months? Instead of sending him to jail. He can learn about his culture, and get the idea in his head no, I don't have to do crime to make money. I can do this. Carl, Aaron and Renee talked about the problems of disclosing a criminal record to employers. For Carl, "there's no way you want to disclose it to them. Why would you want anyone to know that?", but "they're going to find out anyway", which had happened to him before. Aaron had been asked about his criminal record in interviews and felt honesty was the best policy:That's what I was taught, never lie to your employer. Because he'll find out and you mightn't have a job. If you tell him straight upfront, he might go "yeah, well you told me upfront, you'll be honest with me, so I'll give you a start". That's what I was taught, never lie to your employer. Because he'll find out and you mightn't have a job. If you tell him straight upfront, he might go "yeah, well you told me upfront, you'll be honest with me, so I'll give you a start". However, an employment agency had suggested he avoid talking about his criminal record, telling him: "you don't have to say. You can say, {\textquoteleft}been in a bit of trouble{\textquoteright}". Aaron did not have a problem talking about his criminal history, but did feel a bit ashamed of how "thick" the folder would be. Renee also preferred being honest, but felt her record had led to her being "knocked back":a lot of [potential employers] do police checks, and you know, honesty is the best policy. So you've got to be honest and say, "yes, I do have criminal history", where you get knocked back a lot. a lot of [potential employers] do police checks, and you know, honesty is the best policy. So you've got to be honest and say, "yes, I do have criminal history", where you get knocked back a lot. Renee wished she had been released into secure employment, because her financial situation was not good and, despite applying for "a fair few jobs", she had significant problems finding work to fit in with her rehabilitation obligations: she was only allowed to work 15 h a week and had to attend at least three weekly meetings on different days and in different parts of the city. She felt that "it's almost not really worth [looking]…because it's a bit hard to go to an employer and go, {\textquoteleft}I can only work these days{\textquoteright}". She also had not worked since 2013 and felt an employment gap that long was a barrier. Although Carl was looking for work, he was not satisfied with his experience and prospects: "I'm not qualified for anything and I'm not much of a studier either". He had worked in the building and transport industries, but "I can't see being, my life being defined by, I'll go and dig a hole". For him, working went beyond financial benefits: "it's self-wellbeing. Like, a sense of self-worth". He had no car and public transport was "limited", but was willing to travel to employment opportunities on his push-bike and was dubious about people using lack of transport as an excuse not to "have a go". Participants were 25–46 years old, with a median age of 43. Fifty-eight per cent had been on remand during their most recent incarceration, while one had been both on remand and sentenced. Nearly all (92 per cent) had previously spent time in prison, ranging from once to six times. To protect participants' identity, we do not provide specific information on the number of previous prison episodes and use pseudonyms. Three participants were employed at the time of interview. Sean, who was in his forties and had only been to prison once, saw himself as "pretty lucky" with his post-release experience. He owned his house and ran his own business. He did not encounter any issues with finding employment post-release; as a car spray-painting and panel-beating sub-contractor, he had "done their cars for 20 years", so there was an established employment relationship to come back to. Over the coming months, Sean wanted to "just stay out of jail, that's my goal". Ivan was in his fifties and had also not spent much time in prison before. He had not "had the real bad experiences a lot of guys would be having, getting released. I was lucky financially. But I can easily see how difficult it must be for some guys". His biggest issue post-release was going through a stressful Family Court process, to be able to see his child. Ivan did not specify his job, but reported he had been working 3 or 4 days a week, which was not "as much as I usually do, but I'm OK for money". Ivan felt his criminal record might be a barrier to further employment and might deter him from applying for some things: "[employers] want to know about your criminal record and things like that, get a police check. I don't even know if I'll get one now…Most people are just going to go {\textquoteleft}wow, you've been in jail for six months?{\textquoteright} You get painted with the same brush". His criminal record might also have an impact on his "volunteer work…And now I've got a problem with my…working with vulnerable people, working with children, because I don't know if I can do that anymore". Vivian, in her forties, had been in prison before and faced long-term drug addiction ("I was definitely one of those people who you would record and put on a crackhead video"), but has now been "clean solid" for 8 years. Vivian struggled with the fact that her children were not living with her, but felt "lucky", because she got to see them on a weekly basis. She talked at length about her experience with applying for a job at a large retail chain, during which the issue of criminal history became very relevant. In the online application, she encountered a question about spent convictions:When I was confronted with those questions, I was like, I wish I could lie. Because it was changeable, I went no, no, yes, yes, no, yes, no, yes, no. Because it is, it's personally challenging. When I was confronted with those questions, I was like, I wish I could lie. Because it was changeable, I went no, no, yes, yes, no, yes, no, yes, no. Because it is, it's personally challenging. She felt that it would be much easier to disclose these things in a face-to-face interaction and hoped that a potential employer would listen to her story and appreciate that she had made changes to her life:I think if it came up in an interview, I wouldn't hide it, I would just say, "this is very personal". And I would be like, "it's confidential as well". I would hope that what I revealed was seen. This is how it is, take it or leave it, whatever you want to make from it. I think if it came up in an interview, I wouldn't hide it, I would just say, "this is very personal". And I would be like, "it's confidential as well". I would hope that what I revealed was seen. This is how it is, take it or leave it, whatever you want to make from it. Three participants were actively looking for work at the time of interview. They felt they had strengths to offer employers, but faced significant barriers to employment. Carl, who had work experience in building and truck-driving, was in his forties and had been in prison more than once. He was in social housing and wanted to "live", rather than just "survive". Aaron, an Aboriginal man in his fifties, had spent many years in prison. He wanted to stay out of prison this time and felt that employment was the "only thing that will change" that. He had a debt to pay off, as a result of family members living in his social housing property and not paying rent while he was inside, but felt fortunate to have accommodation. He had a teenage son and wanted to avoid his son getting a criminal record: "Because basically it mucks you up…I don't want him doing what I'm doing". Renee was in her thirties, living in transitional housing (for people who are homeless or at risk of becoming homeless) and was attending rehabilitation programmes, while looking for work. She had also been in prison before and this time had found the post-release experience financially challenging, due to the expense of rehabilitation and transitional housing, combined with food and other bills: "I think that's why a lot of people do go back in, because jail is a breeze, to be honest. I've got to say it's a lot easier in there". All three felt their strengths included drawing on their lived experience, to support other people in the criminal justice system. Carl had been doing volunteer work and felt he was "good at helping people and…a pretty good communicator". He felt he would enjoy working somewhere like Prisoners Aid: "If I know the people, they know me, they know I'm not going to judge them". Renee had previous experience in government and help-desk roles and felt she had marketable skills, such as problem-solving and customer service. She saw herself as "one of the lucky ones…that was able to turn my life around" and, given her experiences in the criminal justice system, would like to train as a case manager, "so that I can help people that have been in my position with addiction". Aaron had approached an Indigenous business centre with his business plan, which had the objective of "teaching young fellas respect, how to make money without breaking the law", and needed a $5000 start-up grant, but "they went {\textquoteleft}no, it's not a sustainable business plan{\textquoteright}". He was frustrated, because no Aboriginal people worked at the centre. He wanted to redo his business plan, because he saw the benefit of his lived experience in the criminal justice system and mentoring others:Because I reckon, if I can get it up and running and get some of those young fellas that's going into the AMC to go, listen, instead of sending them to the AMC, can you make them do this for about six months, eight months? Instead of sending him to jail. He can learn about his culture, and get the idea in his head no, I don't have to do crime to make money. I can do this. Carl, Aaron and Renee talked about the problems of disclosing a criminal record to employers. For Carl, "there's no way you want to disclose it to them. Why would you want anyone to know that?", but "they're going to find out anyway", which had happened to him before. Aaron had been asked about his criminal record in interviews and felt honesty was the best policy:That's what I was taught, never lie to your employer. Because he'll find out and you mightn't have a job. If you tell him straight upfront, he might go "yeah, well you told me upfront, you'll be honest with me, so I'll give you a start". However, an employment agency had suggested he avoid talking about his criminal record, telling him: "you don't have to say. You can say, {\textquoteleft}been in a bit of trouble{\textquoteright}". Aaron did not have a problem talking about his criminal history, but did feel a bit ashamed of how "thick" the folder would be. Renee also preferred being honest, but felt her record had led to her being "knocked back":a lot of [potential employers] do police checks, and you know, honesty is the best policy. So you've got to be honest and say, "yes, I do have criminal history", where you get knocked back a lot. Renee wished she had been released into secure employment, because her financial situation was not good and, despite applying for "a fair few jobs", she had significant problems finding work to fit in with her rehabilitation obligations: she was only allowed to work 15 h a week and had to attend at least three weekly meetings on different days and in different parts of the city. She felt that "it's almost not really worth [looking]…because it's a bit hard to go to an employer and go, {\textquoteleft}I can only work these days{\textquoteright}". She also had not worked since 2013 and felt an employment gap that long was a barrier. Although Carl was looking for work, he was not satisfied with his experience and prospects: "I'm not qualified for anything and I'm not much of a studier either". He had worked in the building and transport industries, but "I can't see being, my life being defined by, I'll go and dig a hole". For him, working went beyond financial benefits: "it's self-wellbeing. Like, a sense of self-worth". He had no car and public transport was "limited", but was willing to travel to employment opportunities on his push-bike and was dubious about people using lack of transport as an excuse not to "have a go". Five participants were not actively looking for work at the time of interview. Some were focusing on other areas of their lives, before they could realistically expect to hold down secure employment. James, Brian, Kevin and Michael were recovering from drug addiction. Brian, who was in his twenties and had been in prison a couple of times before, was keeping busy by attending day programmes and sponsor meetings, but not putting pressure on himself to find a job: "I'm not really concerned with Centrelink or jobs or anything like that. Right now, I'm just really focused on my recovery". He also wanted to focus on being there for his partner and children and participating in reciprocal family relationships. He felt that, if he found a job and got income too early in his recovery, "I might find myself down the pub or down a dealer's place, getting on and getting back down the same path that led me to the first debt and landed me in jail". On the other hand, he knew he needed employment to find "steady accommodation" to prevent recidivism. He saw the psychological benefit of having a job: "You're relying on yourself, you're not having to rely on a Centrelink benefit", which can be quite "disheartening": "I hate it. I really do. To be self-reliant is something to be proud of and can be quite motivating". James, who was in his thirties and had been in and out of prison for the last 15 years, was also not currently in a place where he could look for work. He was "on a lot of medications… [including] a large dose of methadone". In addition, his typical day post-release was focused on "trying to do the dad thing" for his children, who had been born while he was in prison. Michael was also on methadone treatment, had no top teeth due to previous drug use, and had been diagnosed with post-traumatic stress disorder. He was in his thirties and had been in prison before. His biggest post-release issue was having lost access to his daughter. He felt that having kids "gives you a reason to get up to work" and feared that, "if I don't get some sort of job in six months' time, I can see myself being back in". He talked about the challenges with finding employment: "You go walking down the street and there's no signs in the window, like, {\textquoteleft}jobs vacant{\textquoteright}". He thought it would help if employers would be willing to give him a trial. Kevin was in his thirties and had been in prison before. The main thing he wanted to achieve over the next couple of months was "not go back to jail", which "was the worst", because "everything's taken out of your control". He had ongoing "problems with drugs", and one of the hardest things, post-release, had been complying with the requirement not to use drugs. Kevin wanted to try and find employment soon, "but I've got other things as well that I've got to sort of try and manage". He felt he had "to get a better r{\'e}sum{\'e}", because "coming out of jail, it's not easy to get a job", since "most jobs, you've got [to] have your licence and your criminal record check or something". By contrast, John had got a night cleaning job through a "mate from jail", within three days of release. However, he did not consider it the right work for him and it paid far less than he was used to, so he had quit: "I was running myself ragged and not really making enough money". He was in his forties, had been in prison before and was living in a motel after release. He had trade qualifications from prison, but felt he was getting older and they were not appropriate anymore, so he was completing online courses to "change my career path". John had worked most of his life and felt he had "some strengths and a bit of knowledge", which would help him with finding employment: "I know how to go about organising those kind of things and putting them in place, [it's] just getting off my butt and doing them. So, the motivation is the hard part". Like Renee, John felt prison can be easier than outside, because prison is "like home away from home…A lot of guys have actually got it better there than they do out here…If they're out they're couch surfing…In there, you get your bed, you get your three meals". John strongly felt the importance of employment for reducing recidivism: "probably one of the biggest things coming out of jail would be employment". Kevin, John and Michael also identified the links between housing, employment and recidivism. Kevin had stayed with his mother upon release, but "that didn't turn out well". His current accommodation had also made it hard for him to look for employment, because "it's pretty hard to sort of hold down a job with no stable accommodation". Michael reflected that some "people get out and might not have anywhere to live, with no clothes…it's a very good chance they're going to have to…commit an offence". Another significant challenge for some of these participants was anxiety and self-confidence. For Brian, the length of time since he had been in the workforce and thought of having to reveal his criminal record were "confronting":Coming from jail back into the community, there can be a lot of unknowns I guess, or "what ifs?", they can trigger as lot of anxiety for us…So having to approach someone and apply for a job, there's a big anxiety factor there for a lot of us, for me especially. And then also the look of someone being in jail…an employer turns around and says to me, "so what have you been doing with your life over the last 12 months?" And you say "jail". Again, there's your anxiety flaring up. Coming from jail back into the community, there can be a lot of unknowns I guess, or "what ifs?", they can trigger as lot of anxiety for us…So having to approach someone and apply for a job, there's a big anxiety factor there for a lot of us, for me especially. And then also the look of someone being in jail…an employer turns around and says to me, "so what have you been doing with your life over the last 12 months?" And you say "jail". Again, there's your anxiety flaring up. James, who did not discuss his own job prospects, felt that "a lot of us…haven't done really well at school, didn't go very far at school…failed at a lot of things…there's no confidence there that they can achieve anything". Similarly, Michael felt he used to have "plenty" of strengths in finding employment, as he had "worked for 10 years", "but…like my self-esteem, it's just slowly, like, diminished over time". Most participants reflected on the utility of the employment and education programmes offered in the AMC or had suggestions for improvement. Kevin, Brian and John felt the jobs on offer inside were not good preparation for work on the outside, although John and Brian saw the benefits of routine, structure and what Brian termed "self-encouragement". Kevin commented on jobs such as cleaning windows or taking out the rubbish, which "[people] don't take really seriously anyway":It's not like they would do [them] on the outside…It's only to get, a bit of money from the job and that's all it is…Some of them don't even do the jobs…They still get paid, they're assigned to do the job, but they don't do it, they just get the money in the account every week. It's not like they would do [them] on the outside…It's only to get, a bit of money from the job and that's all it is…Some of them don't even do the jobs…They still get paid, they're assigned to do the job, but they don't do it, they just get the money in the account every week. Brian felt AMC jobs did not meet "the level…that would be required in the community" and that:the skills I learned in the AMC definitely wouldn't help with the outside world…It feels like I'm back in the first-grade school. It's quite basic. Definitely nothing to gain for it on the outside world …And if I was to turn around to an employer and present the things that they gave me to present, it just wouldn't look so good. the skills I learned in the AMC definitely wouldn't help with the outside world…It feels like I'm back in the first-grade school. It's quite basic. Definitely nothing to gain for it on the outside world …And if I was to turn around to an employer and present the things that they gave me to present, it just wouldn't look so good. John felt detainees should get qualifications for the work they do:If we're going to do a job out there, at least get trained in it properly. If you're going to do cleaning, you're training them so they can walk into a cleaning job [outside]. Or if they're going to be in the kitchen, they get qualified for the time they're working… If we're going to do a job out there, at least get trained in it properly. If you're going to do cleaning, you're training them so they can walk into a cleaning job [outside]. Or if they're going to be in the kitchen, they get qualified for the time they're working… Renee had worked in the bakery, which "filled in" her days in the AMC. She said she found the bakery training "pretty good", but that "it wasn't actually Corrective Services that trained us. It was, like, the girls that had been working there for a long period of time". The AMC also provides educational programmes, although Michael noted there were lockdowns and other disruptions: "pretty much every week and you'll miss a day". These programmes were not always seen as appropriate or useful, with Sean commenting: "it's just remedial stuff that they give in the programs in there. As in, it's one plus two". John felt that "[Corrective Services] need to go a step further. Like… fundamental skills training or something. Just basic skills, like basic computer skills, basic literacy". He had spent over 10 years in prison and had found it challenging to keep "up-to-date with technology…You come out and everything's electronic and digitalised". He also felt the Certificate II courses offered in prison were inadequate, as these are "not going to get you a job, basically. They need to go a little bit further than that. Yeah, actually give you some tickets [licenses] for when you get out". Carl also saw opportunities to improve training for employment post-release, reflecting that job-readiness programmes were lacking: "They don't do any courses, where they come [and show] skills to go into the workforce. What to say or to do". James would have found it helpful to have "goal-setting" programmes, which would help with addressing the self-confidence issues mentioned by several participants. He felt that "therapeutical" programmes inside the AMC could help with "building people's confidence… something where they can help people think, hang on, just because you've got this really bad, extensive criminal history, you can get jobs, you can do this, you can do that". Programmes are also needed that extend beyond release: Carl, Michael and John felt one of the strongest supports would be to actually connect detainees to jobs pre-release. As Carl reflected:having an agency for prisoners, only prisoners, and trying to get employers to take them on…while they're still in there and when they come out, when they go to the job, they know they've been in jail and they're going to give them a go. having an agency for prisoners, only prisoners, and trying to get employers to take them on…while they're still in there and when they come out, when they go to the job, they know they've been in jail and they're going to give them a go. Michael appeared frustrated about the lack of support in finding employment post-release and wanted employers to give him a trial: "they're spending so much money in jails, why can't they just…Surely there's something they could do". For John, "it'd just be so much better for guys if they got out, they…could walk into a job or even on-the-job train…have something to keep them going, where they're distracted and they're not sitting around on their butt all day…using drugs". He felt that if people had accommodation and a job, they would have "no reason to go back to their old lifestyle". Publisher Copyright: {\textcopyright} 2021 Australian Social Policy Association.",
doi = "10.1002/ajs4.197",
journal = "Australian Journal of Social Issues",
publisher = "Australian Council of Social Service",
Doyle, C, Yates, S, Bartels, L, Hopkins, A & Taylor, H 2022, ''If I don't get a job in six months' time, I can see myself being back in there': Post-prison employment experiences of people in Canberra', Australian Journal of Social Issues, vol. 57, no. 3, pp. 627-643. https://doi.org/10.1002/ajs4.197
'If I don't get a job in six months' time, I can see myself being back in there' : Post-prison employment experiences of people in Canberra. / Doyle, Caroline; Yates, Sophie; Bartels, Lorana et al.
In: Australian Journal of Social Issues, Vol. 57, No. 3, 09.2022, p. 627-643.
T1 - 'If I don't get a job in six months' time, I can see myself being back in there'
T2 - Post-prison employment experiences of people in Canberra
AU - Doyle, Caroline
AU - Yates, Sophie
AU - Bartels, Lorana
AU - Hopkins, Anthony
AU - Taylor, Helen
N1 - Publisher Copyright: © 2021 Australian Social Policy Association. Funding Information: Three participants were actively looking for work at the time of interview. They felt they had strengths to offer employers, but faced significant barriers to employment. Carl, who had work experience in building and truck-driving, was in his forties and had been in prison more than once. He was in social housing and wanted to "live", rather than just "survive". Aaron, an Aboriginal man in his fifties, had spent many years in prison. He wanted to stay out of prison this time and felt that employment was the "only thing that will change" that. He had a debt to pay off, as a result of family members living in his social housing property and not paying rent while he was inside, but felt fortunate to have accommodation. He had a teenage son and wanted to avoid his son getting a criminal record: "Because basically it mucks you up…I don't want him doing what I'm doing". Renee was in her thirties, living in transitional housing (for people who are homeless or at risk of becoming homeless) and was attending rehabilitation programmes, while looking for work. She had also been in prison before and this time had found the post-release experience financially challenging, due to the expense of rehabilitation and transitional housing, combined with food and other bills: "I think that's why a lot of people do go back in, because jail is a breeze, to be honest. I've got to say it's a lot easier in there". All three felt their strengths included drawing on their lived experience, to support other people in the criminal justice system. Carl had been doing volunteer work and felt he was "good at helping people and…a pretty good communicator". He felt he would enjoy working somewhere like Prisoners Aid: "If I know the people, they know me, they know I'm not going to judge them". Renee had previous experience in government and help-desk roles and felt she had marketable skills, such as problem-solving and customer service. She saw herself as "one of the lucky ones…that was able to turn my life around" and, given her experiences in the criminal justice system, would like to train as a case manager, "so that I can help people that have been in my position with addiction". Aaron had approached an Indigenous business centre with his business plan, which had the objective of "teaching young fellas respect, how to make money without breaking the law", and needed a $5000 start-up grant, but "they went 'no, it's not a sustainable business plan'". He was frustrated, because no Aboriginal people worked at the centre. He wanted to redo his business plan, because he saw the benefit of his lived experience in the criminal justice system and mentoring others:Because I reckon, if I can get it up and running and get some of those young fellas that's going into the AMC to go, listen, instead of sending them to the AMC, can you make them do this for about six months, eight months? Instead of sending him to jail. He can learn about his culture, and get the idea in his head no, I don't have to do crime to make money. I can do this. Because I reckon, if I can get it up and running and get some of those young fellas that's going into the AMC to go, listen, instead of sending them to the AMC, can you make them do this for about six months, eight months? Instead of sending him to jail. He can learn about his culture, and get the idea in his head no, I don't have to do crime to make money. I can do this. Carl, Aaron and Renee talked about the problems of disclosing a criminal record to employers. For Carl, "there's no way you want to disclose it to them. Why would you want anyone to know that?", but "they're going to find out anyway", which had happened to him before. Aaron had been asked about his criminal record in interviews and felt honesty was the best policy:That's what I was taught, never lie to your employer. Because he'll find out and you mightn't have a job. If you tell him straight upfront, he might go "yeah, well you told me upfront, you'll be honest with me, so I'll give you a start". That's what I was taught, never lie to your employer. Because he'll find out and you mightn't have a job. If you tell him straight upfront, he might go "yeah, well you told me upfront, you'll be honest with me, so I'll give you a start". However, an employment agency had suggested he avoid talking about his criminal record, telling him: "you don't have to say. You can say, 'been in a bit of trouble'". Aaron did not have a problem talking about his criminal history, but did feel a bit ashamed of how "thick" the folder would be. Renee also preferred being honest, but felt her record had led to her being "knocked back":a lot of [potential employers] do police checks, and you know, honesty is the best policy. So you've got to be honest and say, "yes, I do have criminal history", where you get knocked back a lot. a lot of [potential employers] do police checks, and you know, honesty is the best policy. So you've got to be honest and say, "yes, I do have criminal history", where you get knocked back a lot. Renee wished she had been released into secure employment, because her financial situation was not good and, despite applying for "a fair few jobs", she had significant problems finding work to fit in with her rehabilitation obligations: she was only allowed to work 15 h a week and had to attend at least three weekly meetings on different days and in different parts of the city. She felt that "it's almost not really worth [looking]…because it's a bit hard to go to an employer and go, 'I can only work these days'". She also had not worked since 2013 and felt an employment gap that long was a barrier. Although Carl was looking for work, he was not satisfied with his experience and prospects: "I'm not qualified for anything and I'm not much of a studier either". He had worked in the building and transport industries, but "I can't see being, my life being defined by, I'll go and dig a hole". For him, working went beyond financial benefits: "it's self-wellbeing. Like, a sense of self-worth". He had no car and public transport was "limited", but was willing to travel to employment opportunities on his push-bike and was dubious about people using lack of transport as an excuse not to "have a go". Participants were 25–46 years old, with a median age of 43. Fifty-eight per cent had been on remand during their most recent incarceration, while one had been both on remand and sentenced. Nearly all (92 per cent) had previously spent time in prison, ranging from once to six times. To protect participants' identity, we do not provide specific information on the number of previous prison episodes and use pseudonyms. Three participants were employed at the time of interview. Sean, who was in his forties and had only been to prison once, saw himself as "pretty lucky" with his post-release experience. He owned his house and ran his own business. He did not encounter any issues with finding employment post-release; as a car spray-painting and panel-beating sub-contractor, he had "done their cars for 20 years", so there was an established employment relationship to come back to. Over the coming months, Sean wanted to "just stay out of jail, that's my goal". Ivan was in his fifties and had also not spent much time in prison before. He had not "had the real bad experiences a lot of guys would be having, getting released. I was lucky financially. But I can easily see how difficult it must be for some guys". His biggest issue post-release was going through a stressful Family Court process, to be able to see his child. Ivan did not specify his job, but reported he had been working 3 or 4 days a week, which was not "as much as I usually do, but I'm OK for money". Ivan felt his criminal record might be a barrier to further employment and might deter him from applying for some things: "[employers] want to know about your criminal record and things like that, get a police check. I don't even know if I'll get one now…Most people are just going to go 'wow, you've been in jail for six months?' You get painted with the same brush". His criminal record might also have an impact on his "volunteer work…And now I've got a problem with my…working with vulnerable people, working with children, because I don't know if I can do that anymore". Vivian, in her forties, had been in prison before and faced long-term drug addiction ("I was definitely one of those people who you would record and put on a crackhead video"), but has now been "clean solid" for 8 years. Vivian struggled with the fact that her children were not living with her, but felt "lucky", because she got to see them on a weekly basis. She talked at length about her experience with applying for a job at a large retail chain, during which the issue of criminal history became very relevant. In the online application, she encountered a question about spent convictions:When I was confronted with those questions, I was like, I wish I could lie. Because it was changeable, I went no, no, yes, yes, no, yes, no, yes, no. Because it is, it's personally challenging. When I was confronted with those questions, I was like, I wish I could lie. Because it was changeable, I went no, no, yes, yes, no, yes, no, yes, no. Because it is, it's personally challenging. She felt that it would be much easier to disclose these things in a face-to-face interaction and hoped that a potential employer would listen to her story and appreciate that she had made changes to her life:I think if it came up in an interview, I wouldn't hide it, I would just say, "this is very personal". And I would be like, "it's confidential as well". I would hope that what I revealed was seen. This is how it is, take it or leave it, whatever you want to make from it. I think if it came up in an interview, I wouldn't hide it, I would just say, "this is very personal". And I would be like, "it's confidential as well". I would hope that what I revealed was seen. This is how it is, take it or leave it, whatever you want to make from it. Three participants were actively looking for work at the time of interview. They felt they had strengths to offer employers, but faced significant barriers to employment. Carl, who had work experience in building and truck-driving, was in his forties and had been in prison more than once. He was in social housing and wanted to "live", rather than just "survive". Aaron, an Aboriginal man in his fifties, had spent many years in prison. He wanted to stay out of prison this time and felt that employment was the "only thing that will change" that. He had a debt to pay off, as a result of family members living in his social housing property and not paying rent while he was inside, but felt fortunate to have accommodation. He had a teenage son and wanted to avoid his son getting a criminal record: "Because basically it mucks you up…I don't want him doing what I'm doing". Renee was in her thirties, living in transitional housing (for people who are homeless or at risk of becoming homeless) and was attending rehabilitation programmes, while looking for work. She had also been in prison before and this time had found the post-release experience financially challenging, due to the expense of rehabilitation and transitional housing, combined with food and other bills: "I think that's why a lot of people do go back in, because jail is a breeze, to be honest. I've got to say it's a lot easier in there". All three felt their strengths included drawing on their lived experience, to support other people in the criminal justice system. Carl had been doing volunteer work and felt he was "good at helping people and…a pretty good communicator". He felt he would enjoy working somewhere like Prisoners Aid: "If I know the people, they know me, they know I'm not going to judge them". Renee had previous experience in government and help-desk roles and felt she had marketable skills, such as problem-solving and customer service. She saw herself as "one of the lucky ones…that was able to turn my life around" and, given her experiences in the criminal justice system, would like to train as a case manager, "so that I can help people that have been in my position with addiction". Aaron had approached an Indigenous business centre with his business plan, which had the objective of "teaching young fellas respect, how to make money without breaking the law", and needed a $5000 start-up grant, but "they went 'no, it's not a sustainable business plan'". He was frustrated, because no Aboriginal people worked at the centre. He wanted to redo his business plan, because he saw the benefit of his lived experience in the criminal justice system and mentoring others:Because I reckon, if I can get it up and running and get some of those young fellas that's going into the AMC to go, listen, instead of sending them to the AMC, can you make them do this for about six months, eight months? Instead of sending him to jail. He can learn about his culture, and get the idea in his head no, I don't have to do crime to make money. I can do this. Carl, Aaron and Renee talked about the problems of disclosing a criminal record to employers. For Carl, "there's no way you want to disclose it to them. Why would you want anyone to know that?", but "they're going to find out anyway", which had happened to him before. Aaron had been asked about his criminal record in interviews and felt honesty was the best policy:That's what I was taught, never lie to your employer. Because he'll find out and you mightn't have a job. If you tell him straight upfront, he might go "yeah, well you told me upfront, you'll be honest with me, so I'll give you a start". However, an employment agency had suggested he avoid talking about his criminal record, telling him: "you don't have to say. You can say, 'been in a bit of trouble'". Aaron did not have a problem talking about his criminal history, but did feel a bit ashamed of how "thick" the folder would be. Renee also preferred being honest, but felt her record had led to her being "knocked back":a lot of [potential employers] do police checks, and you know, honesty is the best policy. So you've got to be honest and say, "yes, I do have criminal history", where you get knocked back a lot. Renee wished she had been released into secure employment, because her financial situation was not good and, despite applying for "a fair few jobs", she had significant problems finding work to fit in with her rehabilitation obligations: she was only allowed to work 15 h a week and had to attend at least three weekly meetings on different days and in different parts of the city. She felt that "it's almost not really worth [looking]…because it's a bit hard to go to an employer and go, 'I can only work these days'". She also had not worked since 2013 and felt an employment gap that long was a barrier. Although Carl was looking for work, he was not satisfied with his experience and prospects: "I'm not qualified for anything and I'm not much of a studier either". He had worked in the building and transport industries, but "I can't see being, my life being defined by, I'll go and dig a hole". For him, working went beyond financial benefits: "it's self-wellbeing. Like, a sense of self-worth". He had no car and public transport was "limited", but was willing to travel to employment opportunities on his push-bike and was dubious about people using lack of transport as an excuse not to "have a go". Five participants were not actively looking for work at the time of interview. Some were focusing on other areas of their lives, before they could realistically expect to hold down secure employment. James, Brian, Kevin and Michael were recovering from drug addiction. Brian, who was in his twenties and had been in prison a couple of times before, was keeping busy by attending day programmes and sponsor meetings, but not putting pressure on himself to find a job: "I'm not really concerned with Centrelink or jobs or anything like that. Right now, I'm just really focused on my recovery". He also wanted to focus on being there for his partner and children and participating in reciprocal family relationships. He felt that, if he found a job and got income too early in his recovery, "I might find myself down the pub or down a dealer's place, getting on and getting back down the same path that led me to the first debt and landed me in jail". On the other hand, he knew he needed employment to find "steady accommodation" to prevent recidivism. He saw the psychological benefit of having a job: "You're relying on yourself, you're not having to rely on a Centrelink benefit", which can be quite "disheartening": "I hate it. I really do. To be self-reliant is something to be proud of and can be quite motivating". James, who was in his thirties and had been in and out of prison for the last 15 years, was also not currently in a place where he could look for work. He was "on a lot of medications… [including] a large dose of methadone". In addition, his typical day post-release was focused on "trying to do the dad thing" for his children, who had been born while he was in prison. Michael was also on methadone treatment, had no top teeth due to previous drug use, and had been diagnosed with post-traumatic stress disorder. He was in his thirties and had been in prison before. His biggest post-release issue was having lost access to his daughter. He felt that having kids "gives you a reason to get up to work" and feared that, "if I don't get some sort of job in six months' time, I can see myself being back in". He talked about the challenges with finding employment: "You go walking down the street and there's no signs in the window, like, 'jobs vacant'". He thought it would help if employers would be willing to give him a trial. Kevin was in his thirties and had been in prison before. The main thing he wanted to achieve over the next couple of months was "not go back to jail", which "was the worst", because "everything's taken out of your control". He had ongoing "problems with drugs", and one of the hardest things, post-release, had been complying with the requirement not to use drugs. Kevin wanted to try and find employment soon, "but I've got other things as well that I've got to sort of try and manage". He felt he had "to get a better résumé", because "coming out of jail, it's not easy to get a job", since "most jobs, you've got [to] have your licence and your criminal record check or something". By contrast, John had got a night cleaning job through a "mate from jail", within three days of release. However, he did not consider it the right work for him and it paid far less than he was used to, so he had quit: "I was running myself ragged and not really making enough money". He was in his forties, had been in prison before and was living in a motel after release. He had trade qualifications from prison, but felt he was getting older and they were not appropriate anymore, so he was completing online courses to "change my career path". John had worked most of his life and felt he had "some strengths and a bit of knowledge", which would help him with finding employment: "I know how to go about organising those kind of things and putting them in place, [it's] just getting off my butt and doing them. So, the motivation is the hard part". Like Renee, John felt prison can be easier than outside, because prison is "like home away from home…A lot of guys have actually got it better there than they do out here…If they're out they're couch surfing…In there, you get your bed, you get your three meals". John strongly felt the importance of employment for reducing recidivism: "probably one of the biggest things coming out of jail would be employment". Kevin, John and Michael also identified the links between housing, employment and recidivism. Kevin had stayed with his mother upon release, but "that didn't turn out well". His current accommodation had also made it hard for him to look for employment, because "it's pretty hard to sort of hold down a job with no stable accommodation". Michael reflected that some "people get out and might not have anywhere to live, with no clothes…it's a very good chance they're going to have to…commit an offence". Another significant challenge for some of these participants was anxiety and self-confidence. For Brian, the length of time since he had been in the workforce and thought of having to reveal his criminal record were "confronting":Coming from jail back into the community, there can be a lot of unknowns I guess, or "what ifs?", they can trigger as lot of anxiety for us…So having to approach someone and apply for a job, there's a big anxiety factor there for a lot of us, for me especially. And then also the look of someone being in jail…an employer turns around and says to me, "so what have you been doing with your life over the last 12 months?" And you say "jail". Again, there's your anxiety flaring up. Coming from jail back into the community, there can be a lot of unknowns I guess, or "what ifs?", they can trigger as lot of anxiety for us…So having to approach someone and apply for a job, there's a big anxiety factor there for a lot of us, for me especially. And then also the look of someone being in jail…an employer turns around and says to me, "so what have you been doing with your life over the last 12 months?" And you say "jail". Again, there's your anxiety flaring up. James, who did not discuss his own job prospects, felt that "a lot of us…haven't done really well at school, didn't go very far at school…failed at a lot of things…there's no confidence there that they can achieve anything". Similarly, Michael felt he used to have "plenty" of strengths in finding employment, as he had "worked for 10 years", "but…like my self-esteem, it's just slowly, like, diminished over time". Most participants reflected on the utility of the employment and education programmes offered in the AMC or had suggestions for improvement. Kevin, Brian and John felt the jobs on offer inside were not good preparation for work on the outside, although John and Brian saw the benefits of routine, structure and what Brian termed "self-encouragement". Kevin commented on jobs such as cleaning windows or taking out the rubbish, which "[people] don't take really seriously anyway":It's not like they would do [them] on the outside…It's only to get, a bit of money from the job and that's all it is…Some of them don't even do the jobs…They still get paid, they're assigned to do the job, but they don't do it, they just get the money in the account every week. It's not like they would do [them] on the outside…It's only to get, a bit of money from the job and that's all it is…Some of them don't even do the jobs…They still get paid, they're assigned to do the job, but they don't do it, they just get the money in the account every week. Brian felt AMC jobs did not meet "the level…that would be required in the community" and that:the skills I learned in the AMC definitely wouldn't help with the outside world…It feels like I'm back in the first-grade school. It's quite basic. Definitely nothing to gain for it on the outside world …And if I was to turn around to an employer and present the things that they gave me to present, it just wouldn't look so good. the skills I learned in the AMC definitely wouldn't help with the outside world…It feels like I'm back in the first-grade school. It's quite basic. Definitely nothing to gain for it on the outside world …And if I was to turn around to an employer and present the things that they gave me to present, it just wouldn't look so good. John felt detainees should get qualifications for the work they do:If we're going to do a job out there, at least get trained in it properly. If you're going to do cleaning, you're training them so they can walk into a cleaning job [outside]. Or if they're going to be in the kitchen, they get qualified for the time they're working… If we're going to do a job out there, at least get trained in it properly. If you're going to do cleaning, you're training them so they can walk into a cleaning job [outside]. Or if they're going to be in the kitchen, they get qualified for the time they're working… Renee had worked in the bakery, which "filled in" her days in the AMC. She said she found the bakery training "pretty good", but that "it wasn't actually Corrective Services that trained us. It was, like, the girls that had been working there for a long period of time". The AMC also provides educational programmes, although Michael noted there were lockdowns and other disruptions: "pretty much every week and you'll miss a day". These programmes were not always seen as appropriate or useful, with Sean commenting: "it's just remedial stuff that they give in the programs in there. As in, it's one plus two". John felt that "[Corrective Services] need to go a step further. Like… fundamental skills training or something. Just basic skills, like basic computer skills, basic literacy". He had spent over 10 years in prison and had found it challenging to keep "up-to-date with technology…You come out and everything's electronic and digitalised". He also felt the Certificate II courses offered in prison were inadequate, as these are "not going to get you a job, basically. They need to go a little bit further than that. Yeah, actually give you some tickets [licenses] for when you get out". Carl also saw opportunities to improve training for employment post-release, reflecting that job-readiness programmes were lacking: "They don't do any courses, where they come [and show] skills to go into the workforce. What to say or to do". James would have found it helpful to have "goal-setting" programmes, which would help with addressing the self-confidence issues mentioned by several participants. He felt that "therapeutical" programmes inside the AMC could help with "building people's confidence… something where they can help people think, hang on, just because you've got this really bad, extensive criminal history, you can get jobs, you can do this, you can do that". Programmes are also needed that extend beyond release: Carl, Michael and John felt one of the strongest supports would be to actually connect detainees to jobs pre-release. As Carl reflected:having an agency for prisoners, only prisoners, and trying to get employers to take them on…while they're still in there and when they come out, when they go to the job, they know they've been in jail and they're going to give them a go. having an agency for prisoners, only prisoners, and trying to get employers to take them on…while they're still in there and when they come out, when they go to the job, they know they've been in jail and they're going to give them a go. Michael appeared frustrated about the lack of support in finding employment post-release and wanted employers to give him a trial: "they're spending so much money in jails, why can't they just…Surely there's something they could do". For John, "it'd just be so much better for guys if they got out, they…could walk into a job or even on-the-job train…have something to keep them going, where they're distracted and they're not sitting around on their butt all day…using drugs". He felt that if people had accommodation and a job, they would have "no reason to go back to their old lifestyle". Publisher Copyright: © 2021 Australian Social Policy Association.
N2 - Research has consistently shown that gaining employment after release helps to reduce recidivism, but also that people who have been in prison face many barriers to finding secure employment. This article presents qualitative data from the experiences of 11 people who had been released from prison in the Australian Capital Territory. We focus on the challenges these participants encountered with obtaining employment post-release, including not having access to suitable housing, criminal background checks, managing post-release commitments (such as attending substance abuse rehabilitation appointments) and a lack of confidence in approaching potential employers. Consequently, we recommend that policymakers ensure that there is a dedicated specialised employment team within the custodial environment providing individualised support for both unsentenced and sentenced people, both while they are incarcerated and post-release.
AB - Research has consistently shown that gaining employment after release helps to reduce recidivism, but also that people who have been in prison face many barriers to finding secure employment. This article presents qualitative data from the experiences of 11 people who had been released from prison in the Australian Capital Territory. We focus on the challenges these participants encountered with obtaining employment post-release, including not having access to suitable housing, criminal background checks, managing post-release commitments (such as attending substance abuse rehabilitation appointments) and a lack of confidence in approaching potential employers. Consequently, we recommend that policymakers ensure that there is a dedicated specialised employment team within the custodial environment providing individualised support for both unsentenced and sentenced people, both while they are incarcerated and post-release.
KW - employment
KW - post release
KW - prison
KW - recidivism
KW - reintegration
U2 - 10.1002/ajs4.197
DO - 10.1002/ajs4.197
JO - Australian Journal of Social Issues
JF - Australian Journal of Social Issues
Doyle C, Yates S, Bartels L, Hopkins A, Taylor H. 'If I don't get a job in six months' time, I can see myself being back in there': Post-prison employment experiences of people in Canberra. Australian Journal of Social Issues. 2022 Sep;57(3):627-643. https://doi.org/10.1002/ajs4.197


text:
Gillian Ramchand (born 1965) is a linguist and Professor of Linguistics at the University of Tromsø, Norway.

Biography
Ramchand grew up in Jamaica and Trinidad and received her PhD in linguistics from Stanford University in 1994, with a dissertation entitled, "Aspect and Argument Structure in Modern Scottish Gaelic." She subsequently spent 10 years working at the University of Oxford as a lecturer in general linguistics before moving to Tromsø in 2004, where she became full professor two years later in 2006.

Her widely cited research focuses on the syntax-semantics interface, especially argument structure. She has worked on a variety of languages, including Scottish Gaelic, Bengali, and English.

Honors and distinctions
Since 2017 Ramchand has been President of Generative Linguistics in the Old World (GLOW).

In 2018 Ramchand was elected to the Academy of Europe.

Selected publications
 Ramchand, Gillian. 1997. Aspect and predication: The semantics of argument structure. Oxford: Oxford University Press.
 Adger, David, and Ramchand, Gillian. 2005. Merge and Move: Wh-dependencies revisited. Linguistic Inquiry 36(2), 161–193.
 Ramchand, Gillian, and Reiss, Charles. 2007. The Oxford handbook of linguistic interfaces. Oxford: Oxford University Press.
 Ramchand, Gillian. 2008. Verb meaning and the lexicon: A first phase syntax. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press.
 Ramchand, Gillian, and Svenonius, Peter. 2014. Deriving the functional hierarchy. Language Sciences 46, 152–174.
 Ramchand, Gillian. 2018. Situations and syntactic structures: Rethinking auxiliaries and order in English. Cambridge, MA: MIT Press.

References

Women linguists
Living people
Academic staff of the University of Tromsø
Semanticists
Syntacticians
Year of birth missing (living people)

1965 births

redpajama_set_name: RedPajamaWikipedia


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1. A certain part of the vocabulary of all languages is relatively stable, and forms the basic lexical core that is common to all languages.
2. The degree of persistence of lexical elements of the core is constant at all times.
3. The percentage of loss of the basic core of words is about the same in all languages.
4. If you know the actual percentage of the surviving of genetically close elements of the basic lexical core of any pair related languages, it is possible to calculate the time elapsed from the moment when these languages have begun the process of divergence. (ZVEGINTSEV V.A. 1960, 12).
Morris Swadesh compiled the list of words of the basic core vacabulary of 100 words, but later expanded it to 200. Grounding on the hypothesis of a constant rate of change, he was trying to determine the start time of the divergence of two related languages (MORRIS SWADESH, 1960-1, 28-45). This method was later named glottochronological, but a part of linguists completely rejected it, and others are trying to improve it. The very existence of the basic core vocabulary in each language has no doubt and it should consist of the most ancient words that emerged at the beginning of its formation. Since the biological nature of man is the same, then his psychological features are basically the same too, so the first words arisen in all languages have the same meaning. However, the formation of language is affected by the world around us, so the lexical structure of the core cannot be universal, and in different languages it can be more or less different from Swadesh list. The more closely related genetically languages, the more common words have they in their core.
1. During the historical period the Mongolian languages remained exceptionally resistant to changes, and the Turkic languages remained super-stable. There is hardly any reason to suppose that this stability is a recent phenomenon.
4. After similar exceptions, the common elements in the Mongolian and Manchu basic vocabulary will not exceed 3.5% of the total lexical composition, and these words can be more easily explained as borrowing than as evidence of genetic links… Even if we assume that the minimum correspondence between the main dictionaries of the Mongolian and the Turkic languages and Mongolian and Manchu languages, respectively, give a certain prima facie evidence of genetic ties, Mongolian languages can not be genetically related to both already because Turkic languages are not associated with the Manchu language. Consequently, the "Altaic" theory is illegal. (CLAUSON G. 1969: 40-41).
Count of Morris Swadesh, made by the method of Robert R. B. Lees, suggests that the lexical nucleus must remain 66% of native words through two thousand years (SWADESH MORRIS, 1960-1, 46). However, since the theory of Swadesh is not accepted Swadesh and subjected to a thorough critique, the final conclusion about the absence of a genetic relationship between the Türkic and Mongolian languages don't be accepted only on the basis of the analysis of lexical core of these languages. There are other, more convincing evidences. The first is that the ancestral home of Türks, defined by the graphic-analytical method, was not located in the Altai, but in the South Caucasus (see he section The Urheimat of the Nostratic Languages). The migration of Türkic tribes to the area between the Lower Dnieper and Don Rivers, where the Proto-Türkic language subdivided into different languages, is considered in the section The Türkic Tribes. Here, the Türks became creators of Sredny Stih and Pit and cultures, based on which the Corded Ware culture developed, whose carriers were the ancient Bulgars, distant relatives of the modern Chuvash.
… while not specifying the exact location of the Chuvash language among related languages, we can conditionally consider it as an intermediary between the Mongolic and Türkic languages (POPPE N.N., 1925: 8).
Far traces of Chuvash first in the vicinity of the Mongolian tribes and then in the upper reaches of the Irtysh and Yenisei rivers – in the vicinity of the Altaic Türks and Central Asian Iranian tribes are good found in the Chuvash language. The Chuvash language has are many Mongolian words, and almost all of them are of ancient origin (YEGOROV V.G. 1971: 7).
However, such views are not in full accepted. For example, K. Menges believed that the Chuvash language has very little Altaic words (MENGES K.H. 1979: 51). Another recognized Turkologist, speaking of Mongolian borrowings in the Turkic languages, nowhere notes their presence in Chuvash and notes that most of them are present in the northeast (Southern Siberia and Tuva) and the north-central (Kazakh and Kyrgyz) groups of languages and at the same time they most refer to medieval times (CLAUSOM GERARD, 2002, IX).
The Chuvash language has a number of Mongolian words being not found in other Türkic languages. They are above all other pronouns… The rest of the Chuvash Mongolic matches is in few number, but sufficient to prove the coexistence of the Proto-Chuvash and Mongol peoples in the far past – long before the Mongol invasions (AKHMETIANOV R.G. 1978: 119).
R. Akhmet'yanov gives in his work except pronouns only six or seven Chuvash words, which have analogues only in the Mongolian language, but that does not mean that they are or always were absent in the other Türkic languages, or never existed in the Old-Türkic language. A similar phenomenon can be observed also in the Tatar and even in the Hungarian language, where there are separate Hungarian-Mongolian vocabulary matches. On this occasion, the famous Hungarian linguist Z. Gombots wrote: "The fact that in some cases, matches to the Hungarian words can be detected only in Mongolian .., has no really matter, as the ancient Türkic vocabulary is known to us in its entirety"" . On the other hand, some of Chuvash-Mongolian matches absolutely can not be ancient on warrant of the meanings of words ("tin", "shawl"). The borrowings from the Middle-Mongolian language confuse greatly the picture being taken for more ancient loan-words. However, the genetic relationship can only be said by the most ancient words which were in daily circulation still at a primitive level of development of languages. Usually such words are most used but examples of just such common words between the Chuvash and Mongolian languages are absent.
As you can see the reasons are different and the very existence of matches between the Chuvash and the Mongolian language is not talking about genetic kinship of the Türkic and Mongolian languages. (RONA-TAS ANDRAS. 1987-2: 6). It should be pointed out that N. Poppe, debating with the Hungarian linguist, had to agree with this his conclusion (POPPE NICHOLAS, 1975: 114).
The Chuvash and Mongolian phonology has also correspondences in favor, if not of genetic relationship, the old neighborhood of the Bulgars and the Mongols. For example, the loss of final k in stems of words is common feature for Chuvash and Mongolian but it is secondary development . The Chuvash language has the spirant γ on the place of Old Türkic – k, -g which fell out in the end of words in more late time. This can be affirmed by Hungarian loan-words from Chuvash: Hung borz "a badger" out of Chuv *borsuγ, Hung kút "a well" out of Chuv kutuγ.. Such phenomenon is not a peculiarity of the Hungarian language as the more old Türkic loan-words have final k: árok "a ditch", hurok "a loop", köldök "a navel" . According to our study the ancestors of Chuvash and Hungarians came in contact not before as in the 1st mill BC.
•	the consonant l in the Chuvash and Mongolian languages corresponds š in most other Türkic languages.
Our knowledge of r/l Turkish is so fragmentary and discontinuous that is better not to attempt to trace its history in detail remarking merely that the difference between r/l Turkish and standard languages was primarily in the pronunciation of certain sounds and probably only to a small extent in matters of word structure, grammar, and vocabulary (CLAUSON GERARD, 2002, 26-27).
This topic is considered in an article about a hypothetical Nostratic sound RZ more detailed.
… when common Türkic language was more or less unitary language, the Chuvash (ancient Chuvash) already went their own ways of development (POPPE N.N. 1925: 31).
After the settlement of Türks on the vast territory from the North Caucasus to the Altai most of them came into contact with peoples of the Altaic language family and made a great influence on them. Together with lexical borrowing could have been accepted also some phonetic features, in particular, the archaic sound rz. Gradually, the bulk of the Türkic languages have been lost some archaic features, but they remained on the periphery of the Türkic world. This also can explain the common features possessed by the Chuvash and Mongolian languages, and that mislead scientists. The Chuvash language preserved archaic Türkic language phenomena, just because for a long time developed without direct contact with the other Türkic, and some of these linguistic phenomena can be transferred by the Türks in the Mongolian languages when they first came into contact with the Mongols. Mongolian language could also save these archaic linguistic phenomena, which can have very different reasons. If the Chuvash language would have many correspondences with the Mongolian, then it had much more similarities with Yakut, undoubtedly akin genetically, but about any particular facts of this similarity is not mentioned anywhere.
It is sometimes considered that, in addition to Bulgar, the Oghur, and Avar languages also were language were r-languages (RONA-TAS ANDRAS. 2005: 115). The ethnonyms Oguz, Ogur, and Avar, without a doubt go back to one common source of Iranian awara "vagabond, nomad" (Afg. avāra, etc.) and therefore could not be self-designation. Accordingly, the same people could be called by different names Oguz, Ogur, and Avars in different languages. We associate the modern Gagauz people of z-language with Oghuz. Thus, we became contradiction, which is again solved by the existence of the sound rz, which was changed to z in the language of the Gagauz that are the descendants of Oghuz-Ogur-Avars relatively recently, in the historical period (possibly under the influence of the Kipchak language). In this case, to put in one row the Oghur and Bulgar languages is not warranted.
During the mass crossing of the Bulgars on the right bank of the Dnieper Indo-Europeans still stayed on their old habitats therefore the cultural exchange between the newcomers and local population contributed to the development of linguistic connections. This language contacts of the Bulgars with Indo-Europeans are evidenced by lexical correspondences between the Chuvash language, on the one hand, and individual Indo-European languages, on the other. Herewith, the Italic-Bulgarish language connections were chronologically earliest of all, since just Ancient Italics were the first which the Bulgars met on countries of the Dnieper right bank.
Gr ηθμοσ "sieve" – Chuv atma "fishnet".
You can find Türkic influence in the spiritual realm. Some matches between the Bulgars and Italians are seen in religious issues. Latin abbās "abbot" is considered to be borrowed through Greek from the Aramaic (abbā "father") and is not considered in the etymological dictionary of Latin (Walde A.1965). First, the alleged word was used in prayer in the sense of "my father" (KLUGE FRIEDRICH, SEEBOLD ELMAR. 1989, 7). However worthy surprise that Latin and Greek words are corresponded with Cuv. apăs "priest," which originated from the ancient Türkic word for the immediate family, including the father (aba/apa). When borrowing from Aramaic and using in prayers word abbās should be used referring to God, not to his servants, and therefore Bulgar source of borrowing should be preferred. More such lexical parallel: Lat. vapor "steam, smoke, fire" – Cuv Vupăr "ghost, spirit" may be included to religious topics too. The word, of course, has a Türkic origin (Türkic bu "steam" and Chuv pyr, which among other senses has also "to come" or par/pǎr "to give, give out"). Surprising is also the similarity of the Greek πανδουρα "kithara", Latin pandura "three-stringed lute" and a number of Chuvash words of close sense: pănt – imitation of ringing broken string, păntăr-păntăr – imitation of string strum, păntărtat – 1. "to thrum, to give strum sounds" (on stringed instruments), 2. "to crack, rattle" (on drums). As Chuvash words have a more general meaning, evidences that a stringed musical instrument of ancient Italians was borrowed from the Bulgars, but not vice versa. There is spread in Central Asian stringed instrument tanbur and it is assumed that its name has Arabic origin (Ar tanbūr "stringed instrument"). However Chuv tĕmpĕr "imitation of drum sound" and tĕmpĕrtet "to thunder, boom" compel to doubt of such assumption. Also the people of the Caucasus have musical instruments with names similar Chuvash words, but the source of their loans is difficult to define. The evidence of Türkic cultural influences could be also be loan-words of an abstract sense. For example, the Chuvash word pinĕsh "thousand" has Latin match finis "end, limit". The specific meaning of the Chuvash word that originates from the Türkic biŋ "thousand" suggests that when the Türks have learned counting at least till thousand, Indo-Europeans who have no common words for so many, understood Türkic word as a finite number.
Lat cura "care" – Chuv khural "protection".
Lat. fàbulare "to speak" – Chuv. pavra "to chatter, to talk".
Lat publikare "to publish" – Chuv puple "to talk".
Lat usus "use" – Chuv usă "use".
It is worth recalling that the Chuvash language has no letters for voiced consonants in native Chuvash words, so Chuvash p may correspond to Latin b or v. Maybe some part of these examples originated still from the ancient times, when all the Türks populated the territory between the Dnieper and the Don, but separate later isolated Bulgarish-Italic connections and more ancient Türkic-Italic ones is not yet possible. It is only clear, that of all Türkic the Chuvash language has most connections with the Italic languages well reflected in Latin. This indicates that prolonged proximity the Bulgars and Italics until that time when the latter migrated to Apennines. An interesting evidence of this neighbourhood can be Chuv păyaxam "brother-in-law". It is impossible to explain this word by means the modern Chuvash language , but if you use other Türkic languages and Latin, then it can be understood as a "sister's husband" (Latin homo "man, male", Turkm bajy "husband's sister" Tur bacı "sister"). Truth to tell, păyaxam means "husband's brother". The discrepancy of the made interpretation can be explained by the fact that the names of relatives may be different depending on the side of kinship, which often leads to a change of the meaning of the same word.
The contacts between the Bulgars and Italics may be indicated also by extra-linguistic facts, if you search them on purpose, but in the meantime we can only speak of chance finds of this kind. For example, it is interesting that the theme of fighting vultures with people and animals, present on the images of objects found in Scythian burial mounds are also repeated in the reliefs on sarcophagi of the 4th cen BC, found during excavations near Tarentum in Southern Italy (BONGRAD-LEVIN G.M., GRANTOVSKIY E.A. 1983: 80). We shall see farther that the Scytians had Bulgarish origin.
We hypothesized that after leaving their Urheimat Italics, their area was settled by the Thracians, who came here from the left bank of the Dnieper. Some group of ancient Greeks delayed during their migration somewhere south of the river Ros', while most of them retreated to the Peloponnese. Obviously, the Phrygians and ancient Armenians settled further south. In this case, the Bulgars had to move further west, staying in the neighborhood with all of them. When the Germanic tribes moved south and east to the Dnieper River, the Bulgars became an opportunity for language contact with the Germans. Because we do not have enough lexical material of the Thracian and Phrygian languages and the Armenian words of Türkic origin can be borrowed from Turkish at historical time, convincing evidence for the presence of the Bulgars in the Western Ukraine can be only Chuvash-Greek and Chuvash-Germanic linguistic parallels.
The full list of Greek-Chuvash Lexical correspondences is reported separately.
Chuv ătăr "an otter" – OG *utra, Eng otter , Germ Otter.
Chuv ăvăs "asp, aspen" – OG *apso, OE æps, Germ Espe "asp, aspen".
Chuv avlan "to marry" – OE ǽwnian, ǽwan "to marry".
Chuv čětre "to tremble" (common Türkic root titr) – Germ zittern "to tremble".
Chuv jěkel "acorn" – OG *aikel, Germ Eichel "acorn".
Chuv kavle "to chew" – Germ kauen "to chew".
Chuv kěrt "flock" – OG *herdo, Germ Herde, Eng herd, Sw hjord "herd, flock".
Chuv palt "fast, quick" – OG *balþa, "bold, courageous", eng. bold, Germ bald "fast, soon".
Chuv săpsa "wasp" – OG * wabso "wasp" (OE wæfs, wæps, Germ Wespe), (here also Sl osa "wasp").
Chuv sěre "very" – Middle High Germ sēre, OE sāre, Germ sehr "very".
Chuv çirěp "stark", Sir Gerard Clauson restores Türkic *jarp (jarpuz) as "herb" (Uzb jalpiz, Kaz žalbyz the plant mint (Mentha L.), Xakani- jarp "firm, solid", etc") – Eng herb, Germ herb.
Chuv tu "to do" – Germ tun, Eng to do, Dt doen "to do".
Chuv turǎ "god" (from Türkic teŋgri) – OG þunre "thundergod, Thor".
Chuv vak "wake" – OG *wakwo, Germ Wake, Eng wake, Sw vak "wake".
Chuv větel "a double-snipe" – Ger Wachtel (O.H.G wahtel) "a quail".
Chuv vulǎ "trunk, stem" – OE wala, walu "stick, staff".
Chuv xaltară "to freeze" – OG *kalda, Germ kalt, Eng cold "cold".
Chuv xatăr "cheerful" – OE hador, Germ heiter "cheerful".
Chuv xitren "good, fine" – OE cytren "beautiful".
Chuv xüte "defence" – OG *hoda, Germ Hut, Eng hood, hat, Swhatt "defence".
Chuv ytla "superfluous" – West Germ. *ídla "insignificant, vain", Germ eitel, Eng idle, Dt ijdel.
The relationship between Chuv tăm "clay" and German words of the same sense having phonetic similarity is rather complex. According to F. Kluge Ger Ton "clay" originates from Gmc. *þahon/þanhon in accordance with OE þō(he) and Goth þāho. Then the old Germanic word can be borrowed from Türkic where clay is named by such words as Chuv tuyăn, Gag tuyan, Tat. duen. One way or another, but the similarity of the names of the clay in the German and the Türkic languages should also be taken into account. The Chuvash language has also words which German origin is though not certainly, but possible. An example can be Chuv eran "boundary", similar to Ger Rain "border", but similar words are also found in Iranian languages. The following parallel can be taken into account too: Chuv hěrt "to warm" – WGmc * herta "stove" (Germ Herd, Eng. hearth, a Dt haard).
The existence of the German-Chuvash lexical parallels was previously pointed out by some experts, in particular by G. Kornilov. In one of his papers, he cited several German-Chuvash lexical similarities, but did not give them a convincing explanation . Targeted searches give us more and more examples. In accordance with made localization, the boundary between the Teutons and the Bulgars took place along the watershed of the basin of the Pripyat and the Dniester. Since it was enough feebly, the language contact between the population were pretty close, and that affected multiple lexical correspondences between the modern German and Chuvash languagee.
Similarly, cultural exchange was also intense. In particular, the Indo-Europeans were acquainted with many metals over the Bulgars, as evidenced by the etymology of their names, considered by the author in the article "The names of metals in the Indo-European and Türkic languages".
Also, many Indo-European names of plants have Türkic origin. This topic is considered in the article "Common Türkic and Indo-European lexical inheritance in the names of plants." Here two matching names of herbs are very interesting. The first of these is: Chuv armuti "wormwood" and Ger Wermut "the same". In the etymological dictionary of German (KLUGE FRIEDRICH, SEEBOLD ELMAR. 1989), the German word derived from the WGmc *wermada, which allegedly has a distant lexical parallels in Celtic – *swerwo "bitter". However, taking into account the Chuvash form, the close parallel has to be Lat artemisia "wormwood", which could be borrowed from Old Bulgar with metathesis of the consonants. Chuvash word armuti itself is a modification of the two Chuvash words erĕm (another name of wormwood) and ută "grass", ie, literally, "wormwood-grass." Türkic origin of the word has no doubt, because such words exist in other Türkic languages: Tat erem, Uz erman, Yak erbehin - all "wormwood". Greek αρωμα "smell, scent", taken later in many languages, also has Türkic origin.
The second match in the name of grasses: Cuv pultăran "hogweed, cow parsnip" – Ger Baldrian "valeriana". Hogweed and valeriana are quite similar to each other, so the transfer of names is possible.The Latin name of the plant Valeriana obviously was changed under the influence of Lat valere "to be strong". German word phonetically is more like Tur baldiran "hogweed". The name of these plants, of course, has Türkic origin, as these words are also found in other Türkic languages. When and wich Indo-European language was borrowed these words is unclear. By Title grass is relevant and The following example has also relation to grass name. Sir Gerard Clauson restores the ancient Türkic word *jarp (jarpuz) meaning "rough, tart" on warrant of Uzb jalpiz, Kaz žalbyz "mint", Xakani jarp "strong, solid". Chuvash çirěp "strong", Eng. herb, Ger herb "tart" can be related to them.
Some German-Chuvash Lexical parallels have matches in Greek and Latin. F. Kluge allowed the relation Germ Harz "wood tar, turpentine" to Gr κηρασ "cell of honeycomb". In that case, Chuv karas "honeycomb" applies here too.. Obviously, the word has Indo-European origin, since this root is not fixed in other Türkic languages, In the Kluge's dictionary Ger Volk "people" with matches Eng folk, Sw volc "the same", is marked as "no opportunity to compare". Meanwhile, you can compare them with Chuv pulkkǎ "flock". Bulgar, the ancient name of the Türkic tribe, the ancestors of the Chuvash, derived from the same root. Latin words vulgus "people", "flock", "crowd", vulgaris "ordinary", was obviously borrowed from the Bulgar language. It is not clear from any Indo-European language borrowed Chuv karta "fence" The words of this root existed in the Greek, Latin and Germanic languages: Gr χορτοσ "enclosure, fence ", Lat. hortus"garden", Gmc. *gardon, Ger Garten, eng. Garden. Another example is the following isogloss: Chuv măkăn – Ger Mohn (an ancient form *mæhon) – Gr μηκων "poppy". Search of the origin of this word attention was drew to the Arm makan "stem, twig". Perhaps the name oh the poppy comes from its high stem. Then it must have origin in Turk. baqan "pillar" which previously could have extended sense "stalk, stem".
Interference of the Bulgars and the neighboring Germanic peoples reflected not only in vocabulary but in beliefs and customs. This is the theme of individual studies, but some examples can be already provided. Chuvash name of deity tură can be compared with the German name of the god Thor (Donar), the son of Odin. German name, originally meant "thunder", had the form *þunra, resembling the name of the supreme deity of the Türks Täŋri (literally "sky"), from which Chuv tură originated. Without a doubt, this deity has been borrowed by the Germans from the Bulgars as many other mythical creatures. For example, Bulgarish mythical character, who is still preserved in the Chuvash folklore as Ulăp "giant, hero" and has a match in most of the tales of the Türkic peoples (Tur, Uzb alp, Tat., Kaz alyp, etc.), can be connected with German character of a different nature: Ger Alp, Alb «goblin, evil spirit," Eng elf. Giving an awesome value for other people's deities or mythical character is quite understandable. If desired, such examples can be found in the mythology. In the Ukraine, long since children has been calmed down by frightening with some scary "Babay", which is quite possible to correspond with Papay, mainly Scythian god.


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