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By Niels Eichhorn | November 30, 2021 | Comments 3 comments
The study of Civil War Memory has grown exponentially over the past decade. While Civil War history in general has taken a small transnational turn, memory studies continues to lag behind in that regard. Michael J. Turner's 2012 work served as an early attempt for its exploration of the image of Stonewall Jackson in Great Britain and the raising of money in Great Britain for a Jackson statue in Richmond, Virginia.[1] By avoiding the international and embracing a rather insular perspective,[2] Civil War memory has overlooked some rather important aspect: the Lost Cause is not unique. Mexico dealt with its defeat in 1848 in a remarkably similar way to how the rebellious and defeated Confederates explained their failures, which challenges us to consider if the Lost Cause is archetypal for defeated nationalities in general.
A few years ago, I had the opportunity to hear Kevin Levin talk about his newest book, Searching for Black Confederates, at the Atlanta History Center. I remember Kevin facing the question after his talk how the United States is such an odd place where the losing side got to write history and how the Lost Cause imprinted its false stories on millions of people. Of course, if one (meaning historians and the public in general) assumes that only in the United States the losing side wrote a story of "victory," one does advance an exceptionalism argument, which can be rather problematic. The United States, however, is not the only place where defeat was turned into some form of victory. Therefore, if the Lost Cause is not unique, comparative studies of Civil War Memory may reveal how in different ways the United States was part of a modern trend to memorialize wartime experiences.
The history and collective remembrances of the War between the United States and Mexico from 1846 to 1848 could not be any more different in the two respective countries. In the United States, it is simply the Mexican War and largely forgotten by the public today. For Mexicans, it is the Guerra de la Intervención Norteamericana and aspects of it are very much remembered, especially the child defenders of Chapultepec Castle who fought U.S. forces, in five cases to the death in defiance of orders to retreat, in defense of their academy during the battle by the same name from September 12 to September 13, 1847. These remembrances sustained both anger and resentment over subsequent generations. Pre-dating former Confederates' efforts by seventeen years, Mexican military and political leaders had to explain their defeat to the public as well as seek vindication for themselves. They hoped to learn from the war in an effort to avoid such a dramatic disaster in the future. The new Constitution of 1857 and the creation of a stronger national identity were crucial in that regard. The effort to strengthen the ties between people and nation were remarkably successful as the French would find out in the 1860s when their forces faced a much stiffer Mexican resistance. This is obviously in contrast to the United States where Confederate nationalism continues but does not sustain a state that needs to defend against foreign invaders (unless of course one wishes to see Reconstruction and the Civil Rights Movement in such a light).[3]
Cover of Esposición dirigida al supremo gobierno por los comisionados que firmaron el tratado de paz con los Estados-Unidos (Matamoros, Mexico: Antonio Castañeda, 1848). Available at http://cdigital.dgb.uanl.mx/la/1020000857/1020000857.html
Mexican officers and politicians used the immediate post-war years to blame each other for the disastrous outcome of the war. However, the arguments promoted in a series of government reports most closely align with the Lost Cause narrative.[4] The Mexican politicians and military leaders believed like southern rebels that this was an unnecessary war that should not have happened in the first place. Like many ex-Confederates who claimed that they joined a cause to defend their home from invaders, so too did the Mexicans. In the words of Jubal Early, one of the architects of the Lost Cause, "I opposed secession with all the ability I possessed, with the hope that the horrors of civil war might be averted, and that a returning sense of duty and justice on the part of the masses of the Northern States, would induce them to respect the rights of the people of the South."[5] Mexicans could not have said that any better. One of the government reports observed, "We do not hide from ourselves what Mexico, defending its own homes, could have done to repel the invasion, and we have very much in mind, like all Mexicans, the honorable examples that the history of our country offers in its good days."[6] But the similarities, such as the perception of defending one's home and the need to maintain honor in the face of an enemy invasion, do not end with assumptions about the war's origins.
Where southern rebels believed in a warped reality in which the election of a Republican President would spell the end of slavery and bring abolition to the southern slave states, so too did Mexicans assume that there had been a plot in the United States that had long aimed to steal land from Mexico. Mexicans dated the plans for the steal back to the settlement of Texas by individuals from the United States. Manuel Crescencio Rejón even claimed that before Mexico had come into existence there were plans to wrest Texas away to the United States. He claimed that residents in Baton Rouge tried to instigate a rebellion in Texas against the Spanish monarchy. Even more, by the 1830s, Rejón claimed, there was a push to interpret the 1819 treaty between the United States and Spain as having included Texas and not drawn the boundary along the Sabine River as well as the support provided from the United States to the rebels in Texas.[7]The creation of conspiratorial enemies was fundamental to both Lost Causes.
Even in the presentation of their enemies the two Lost Causes offer similarities. Mexican authors presented the U.S. soldiers in the worst of lights. Not only was their appearance that of "common brigands and highwayman," they "brought crime, anarchy, and fear." The people from the United States from the Mexican perspective were "degenerate, duplicitous, and godless." Even more, as historian Michael Van Wagenen notes, "authors championed the reputation of their army and found consolidation in the valor of the soldiers, who bravely faced overwhelming odds. Mexico had lost the war, they claimed, not because of cowardice but because of a lack of modern technology, army, and soldiers before a numerous, powerful foe."[8]
These words should ring eerily familiar to Civil War memory scholars as they could have been said just as well by one of the early architects of the Lost Cause. In his final order to the Army of Northern Virginia, Robert E. Lee stated, "the Army of Northern Virginia has been compelled to yield to overwhelming numbers and resources," exactly like the Mexicans claimed years earlier. Lee was well aware of the "valour and devotion" of his soldiers, but also understood that all of this could not change the outcome.[9] Like Lee, Mexicans believed that they had to accept the peace or face the devastating continuation of the war and peace at worse terms.
A final comparison between the two Lost Causes lies with some of the youngest individuals involved in the war. Mexico was harder pressed to find heroic figures than rebellious southerners who had an abundance of them. However, both sides also fought battles where underaged soldiers showcased their heroism and faced death. For the rebellious South and promoters of the Lost Cause, the cadets of the Virginia Military Institute (VMI) and their charge at the Battle of New Market symbolize the commitment of even the young to the cause. Popularized by the film Field of Lost Shoes, the VMI supported and partially staffed battlefield park continues to foster the narrative of the Lost Cause highlighting the cadets' sacrifices.[10]
Monument to the Niños Héroes in Chapultepec Park, Mexico City, dedicated 1952.
Mexico too had its heroic children with the cadets of the military academy at Chapultepc Castle who defended their school during the battle of the same name. Even military histories of the war published in the United States mention the heroism of the young cadets as they embraced death in this pivotal battle on the edge of Mexico City. The Niños Héroes (Boy Heroes or Heroic Cadets) became enshrined in Mexican culture highlighting their willingness to give their last for the country. Both Lost Causes utilize children to foster their narratives of self-sacrifice and patriotism, as Van Wegenen says.[11]
While it is unlikely that Southern crafters and promoters of the Lost Cause were aware of the Mexican efforts to write their own Lost Cause narratives to explain why they had at least won a moral victory, the similarities between the two arguments are striking, even if there are differences as well, and it says much about the nation-defining and invigorating post-defeat process that both Mexicans and former Confederates went to such length to explain the disastrous outcome of war. Transnational and comparative history allows us to better understand unique characteristics of national narratives and challenge notions of exceptionalism. If something as quintessential as the Lost Cause is not unique and restricted to just the United States, how much more can we gain from studying the commemoration of the Civil War in an international frame?
[1] Michael J. Turner, Stonewall Jackson, Beresford Hope, and the Meaning of the American Civil War in Britain (Baton Rouge: Louisiana State University Press, 2020).
[2] There are a few other works that look at the image of Lincoln abroad, particularly in Great Britain, and often with a exceptionalism and America-philia approach: Gabor S. Boritt, Mark E. Neely, Harold Holzer, "The European Image of Abraham Lincoln," Winterthur Portfolio 21 (Summer 1986), 153–183; Richard Carwardine, Jay Sexton, eds., The Global Lincoln (New York: Oxford University Press, 2011).
[3] Michael Van Wagenen, Remembering the Forgotten War: The Enduring Legacies of the U.S./Mexican War (Amherst: University of Massachusetts Press, 2012), 41.
[4] Dictamen de la comisión de la cámara de senadores del Congreso General sobre la aprobación del tratado celebrado por el gobierno de la Republica con el de los Estados-Unidos de Norte (Querétaro, Mexico: Imprenta de J. M. Lara, 1848), 4; Esposición dirigida al supremo gobierno por los comisionados que firmaron el tratado de paz con los Estados-Unidos (Matamoros, Mexico: Antonio Castañeda, 1848),
[5] Jubal A. Early, A Memoir of the Last Year of the War for Independence, in the Confederate States of America (New Orleans: Blelock, 1867), v.
[6] Esposición dirigida al supremo gobierno por los comisionados que firmaron el tratado de paz con los Estados-Unidos (Matamoros, Mexico: Antonio Castañeda, 1848), accessed at https://www.memoriapoliticademexico.org/Textos/2ImpDictadura/1848-Exp-ComPaz.html.
[7] Manuel Crecencio Rejón, Observaciones del Diputado Saliente Manuel Crecencio Rejon (Queretaro: Impr. de J.M. Lara, 1848), chapter 1; Wagenen, Remembering the Forgotten War, 44.
[8] Wagenen, Remembering the Forgotten War, 45-46.
[9] Robert E. Lee, General Order No. 9, April 10, 1865, available at https://collections.libraries.indiana.edu/lilly/exhibitions_legacy/history/generaltext.html
[10] Barbara A Gannon, Americans Remember Their Civil War (Santa Barbara, CA: Praeger, 2017), 129.
[11] Wagenen, Remembering the Forgotten War, 6, 48-49.
Niels Eichhorn
holds a Ph.D. in History from the University of Arkansas and has taught history courses at Middle Georgia State University and Central Georgia Technical College. He has published Liberty and Slavery: European Separatists, Southern Secession, and the American Civil War (LSU Press, 2019) and Atlantic History in the Nineteenth Century: Migration, Trade, Conflict, and Ideas (Palgrave, 2019). He is currently working with Duncan Campbell on The Civil War in the Age of Nationalism. He has published articles on Civil War diplomacy in Civil War History and American Nineteenth Century History. You can find more information on his personal website, and he can be contacted at eichhorn.niels@gmail.com.
Civil War memory, Lost Cause, Mexican American War, Mexico, monuments, transnationalism
3 Replies to "The First Lost Cause: Transnational Memory"
Andrew Houck says:
As always, a very thought-provoking article that pushes the boundaries (literally?) of the study of American Civil War memory and the Lost Cause.
Your conclusion begs the question, do any of the architects of the Confederate Lost Cause make reference, say, to Chapultepec and the cadets there? Or are the references simply implied?
Excellent work, Niels! Looking forward to the next installment.
Richard Vitolo says:
Interesting take on the historical and political narrative of both wars and their continuing impact on their communities. I am, however, a little disappointed in the lack of final proof editing for publiction. Needs a tuneup.
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DM of the Rings XCVII:
Gets Me Right Here
By Shamus Posted Monday May 7, 2007
Filed under: DM of the Rings 115 comments
 DM of the Rings XCVI:
An Errant ArrowPrevious Post
Next PostDM of the Rings XCVIII:
Ooooh! Shiny! 
The only way to keep players from doing something stupid is to Just Keep Talking.
Sadly, there is no way to keep the DM from doing something stupid, although offing one of his favorite NPCs might shut him up for a couple of minutes.
Shamus Young is a programmer, an author, and nearly a composer. He works on this site full time. If you'd like to support him, you can do so via Patreon or PayPal.
Stolen Pixels
A screencap comic that poked fun at videogames and the industry. The comic has ended, but there's plenty of archives for you to binge on.
DM of the Rings
Both a celebration and an evisceration of tabletop roleplaying games, by twisting the Lord of the Rings films into a D&D game.
This Game is Too Videogame-y
What's wrong with a game being "too videogameish"?
Why I Hated Resident Evil 4
Ever wonder how seemingly sane people can hate popular games? It can happen!
Artless in Alderaan
People were so worried about the boring gameplay of The Old Republic they overlooked just how boring and amateur the art is.
115 thoughts on "DM of the Rings XCVII:
Carl the Bold says:
Monday May 7, 2007 at 11:01 am
I love this campaign.
Mysti says:
Great, as always, just the chuckle I need :D
Mattingly says:
Now, the characters will decide to move in to Orthank.
"Hey, a coat of paint, some new curtains… We could live here."
I love the long tower shot, that must have been a bitch to piece together.
Rason says:
Very nice, The big spikey thing never really made sense to me. Nor does Legolas being a jerk in the movie. In this situation it makes total sense, Easy XP! (Possible First)
Polk says:
Always hated that scene in the movies… I couldn't believe they did away with the Scourging of the Shire. On every read through it was one of my favorite chapters!
Valhalya Caelinal says:
Friday Mar 16, 2012 at 3:30 pm
I so agree! I hated that they cut the scouring of the shire. In the book, it was the culmination of the hobbits' stories. Everything they did on their various quests taught them what they needed to know to be able to reclaim the shire at the end. IT's the point of the book! And to have the audience assume (by cutting the scouring of the shire) that the Shire somehow manage to last through the war of the rings without so much as one burnt shed is just beyond unbelievable. And…. this scene was cut from the theatrical release. The whole Saruman storyline is completely dropped without completion unless you watch the extended edition. And the random spiky thing…. geez, could it be anymore "well, we gotta kill him somehow. How about a big spiky thing that is there just to kill him in the inevitable circumstance that he falls" Am I right? >>> I love the Lord of the Rings, the books that is, and from the point in the two towers where Eomer is a complete jerk face, (where in my opinion the films go from reasonably following the books for the most to part to I have no idea where they got any of this because it has nothing to do with the lord of the rings) I get really frustrated with the movies. I haven't watched them in years……. it's too aggravating.
On another note: I love these comics! I only recently started playing D&D (elf ranger with a panther) and so some of the more D&D specific jokes I don't quite understand just yet, but the ones I do get are hilarious! And honestly, this explanation of why Saruman dies here makes way more sense than any other rationalization of why they screwed up the film so badly….
Reggy says:
Long time reader, first time poster.
leggolass shows some real skill here! The timing!
Ice says:
lol one time I rolled a one when i was attacking an orc and my DM said i hit my friend standing right beside me because i had missed the enemy horrably.
Da Rogue says:
Legolas must have taken a level in opportunist.
haashaastaak says:
I totally agree about that change in the movie. It was the very worst one. the scouring of the Shire tied everything up in a neat package as a journey of maturation for the hobbits. And, it was a really satisfying revenge. Having Legolas shoot him was simply stupid.
Of course the movie would have been too long with that scene in it, but it was already too long. How much could a little more hurt?
The only thing I don't understand about your treatment of this is why Gandalf doesn't just incinerate them all with his staff and start over with some other adventurers.
Purple Library Guy says:
Cuz they're the PCs. Duh.
Halo says:
I'm not certain but as far as I recall Grima kills Saruman in the movies and Legolas shoots Grima.
But it's still a stupid change.
Steven Den Beste says:
Halo, if you want to watch the movie, the DVD rental place is just down the street.
Roxysteve says:
This is why Call of Cthulhu is better than D&D* (from a DM standpoint).
Elf shoots Saruman, Saruman shrugs off damage (being some contra-terrene horror from the stygian depths of another dimension and only taking minimum damage from impaling weapons as a result) and reveals his True Aspect, causing aforementioned elf's brains to ooze out of his pointy ears.
You can also lard on the treasure too.
"You finally drive off "Saruman" and enter Isengard. On searching the rooms you eventually find six books, some sort of glass lens, a twisted wooden staff, a couple of stone idols and a potion."
"We're not even thinking of touching any of it,you twisted goon!"
"And I for one am not even looking closely at those statues!"
"Oh, go on!"
*No, not really.
Cenobite says:
Another great installment!
However I do fear for the sanity of this DM. It looks like [i]he's[/i] the one who needs a break from this campaign at times.
Having said that, if you ever need to bring back any of the slaughtered characters, zombies are always a lot of fun.
Jindra34 says:
Dude Legolass needs to take a chill pill… though it is starting to make sense… any epic scene gets interuptted by an arrow…
Scarlet Knight says:
Monday May 7, 2007 at 12:02 pm
I wish my characters could kill a high level wizard with a single arrow…
Mattingly is right, why set up a place when one is ready made? There was no loot on Weathertop, but this place must be crawling with magic items!
Taking time to write dialog for your NPCs is like arguing on the internet.
No matter what you do, it's always useless in the end.
Proteus says:
Gimli's expression is perfect! And right now this campaign reminds me of nearly every D&D game I've played in the last five years:
DM: "So, do you want to know the plot?"
Us: "Just the part about who to kill."
DM: "Want to know why?"
Us: "Do we get more XP if we know?"
DM: "Maybe."
Us: "Explain it to us until you feel better. We'll be at the other end of the table eating chicken or downloading crap to our laptops. Let us know when you want us to roll something."
giant explosion says:
Like the animation, it rocked! Giant spikey thing? how about wheel of torturous spikes?
Randolpho says:
> Mattingly Says:
> May 7th, 2007 at 11:02 am
> Now, the characters will decide to move in to Orthank.
> "Hey, a coat of paint, some new curtains… We could live here."
You know, that's so true. And I think maybe stuff like that is where the cliche of the building suddenly falling apart on the defeat of the villain came from — it was DMs trying to prevent their players from moving right in.
I suppose Shamus could do something along those lines for the next comic… maybe have Orthanc fall down by using a well-cropped screenshot of Barad-dur falling in Return of the King.
Another question, why does aragorn say "2 points!"?
gahazakul says:
Honestly Shamus, the tower shot is really nice. Was that a single shot you found then put the big S into from his fall takes? i don't remember there being a falling scene from the sid elike that.
I just hope they find out that the doors are locked, and the key is still inside. I would hate for the DM to extract some petty revenge. The players might have a really bad day if the DM was out to get them (fall off cliff). Instead of having a the usual bad day, in which they don't get XP or loot.
Shamus says:
giant explosion: "Two points" is a sort of expression meaning "nice shot". It originall rose from basketball, but has come to be used in many situations where someone demonstrates skill at hitting a target. It is also used in a sarcastic sense when someone does something profoundly clumsy. (Like, crashing your bike is regular clumsy, but if you crash your bike into a mailbox, go over the handlebars and knock it over, then someone might rudely say "two points")
I have no idea how widespread this useage is. Come to think of it, I've never seen "two points" used like theis on the net. It could be that it is a local saying.
Polk says: Always hated that scene in the movies… I couldn't believe they did away with the Scourging of the Shire. On every read through it was one of my favorite chapters!
Ditto on all points
Susano says:
Funny thing, when the GM speaks in my current game, we all listen, 'cause we know it's going to be important.
On there other hand, the last session did see the party leader give the unconscious bad guy the Lincoln treatment.*
(* – the back of the head from 6″)
gahazakul: In the special edition the camera follows Saruman down as he falls. (After grima stabs him in the back.) The image above is a composite of about six different images, with the other instances of Saruman removed in photoshop.
IIRC — Peter Jackson didn't like the Scouring of the Shire and did admit it would add an extra 20 minutes to the movie.
On the other hand, the extended Hall of the Dead sequence was terrible, and let's not talk about Legolas's Oliphant surfing.
Monday May 7, 2007 at 1:05 pm
No matter what you do, it's always useless in the end.
No it's not. (oblig.)
Billos says:
Monday Apr 22, 2013 at 9:36 pm
Yes, it is. Also, I doubt your sexuality! (also oblig.)
Mang says:
Wednesday May 14, 2014 at 6:59 pm
Summoning of Godwin. (oblig.)
(And oblig. necromancy ;) )
Yeah, if we reclaimed the time spent on Arwen and her father, the part where Elrond (wince) hikes the sword over to Aragorn, the Gimli vs. Legolas drinking game, the skull avalanche, and the part where they hijacked the boats from the pirates, we would have another half hour to play around with, plus we'd be rid of the worst parts of the movie.
I believe one reason Jackson gave for leaving out the Scouring of the Shire was that the movie already had one ending too many, and in many ways he is right even though I would have liked to see Sharkey's End.
Many movie-savvy types think the Grey Havens should have been given the heave-ho too, and the movie ended at the crowning of Aragon. There is a case to be made for that if you haven't read and loved the books.
[Shamus] the Gimli vs. Legolas drinking game? It is a deleted scene on my four-disc buttock-snoozer edition copy. Are you working from the third attempt to milk cash from an admiring public?
Personally, I think the market can't stand yet another cut of LOTR. Even Lucas only had one set of do overs.
I'm actually on Peter Jackson's side about the alteration of the movie. You don't put a long action sequence twenty minutes after the climax of the movie. You just don't. George Lucas stopped "Return of the Jedi" after the second Death Star blew up, not after Luke and Leia deal with disbanding the Galactic Empire and hunt down the remaining Star Destroyers. Okay, maybe Lucas isn't the best example here, but keep in mind that most reviewers were already complaining that the third act of "Return of the King" was too long. Movies and books are different media.
Oh, and great comic, Shamus. I'm loving Legolas's hyperactivity. I can just see him taking down the Oliphaunt. "Now I CLIMB UP THE SIDE USING ARROWS EMBEDDED IN ITS SKIN! I can do that, right? Right? Awesome!"
Roxysteve: In the version I have, it's actually part of the movie.
It hurts.
Jacob T. Levy says:
Hee. Shooting Gollum was an in-game plot divergence. But this is an in-*movie* plot divergence that Shamus adapted to an in-game plot divergence– presumably the DM was trying to run the plot from the books. I think this is the first time we've seen strips that get their humor from divergences between the movies and the books. (Our trio of PCs don't bring us to moments like Faramir dragging the hobbits to Osgiliath or the Ents acting like lazy cowards who can nonetheless be easily manipulated into a fight.) I'm amused.
More like that, please. I'm imagining the players fast-talking and loop-holing their way out of the DM's intention that the army of the Dead fulfill its oath at the fight with the Corsairs so they can keep the army until Pelennor. "Fine, fine, you get to bring your invulnerable undead army to the CLIMACTIC BATTLE OF THE WHOLE CAMPAIGN THAT YOU WERE SUPPOSED TO WIN YOURSELVES."
33 Roxysteve Says: … Even Lucas only had one set of do overs.
You mean "so far".
aside: speaking of Lincoln (see comment 27 above), I found this shirt amusing: http://www.starslipcrisis.com/lincoln.shtml
Habenath says:
Shamus, you may be interested to know (if you didn't already) that there has been talk over on TheOneRing.net about one of the community there putting together a more 'faithful' Pantom Edit version of the LotR movies.
I understand synching the music is a big hassle, but they remain positive.
Still won't get me my Barrow Downs back though :/
Selki says:
"Yeah, if we reclaimed the time spent on Arwen and her father, the part where […], we would have another half hour to play around with, plus we'd be rid of the worst parts of the movie."
I'd add the Gollum-frames-Sam-as-lembas-thief bit and the tears to that list, though.
theonlymegumegu says:
Tell me you've seen The Gamers. There's a great scene in that movie that makes another good "I shoot him" during parlay joke ^_^
Great comic as always. I could see it coming when he asked how long the dialogue was, and confirmed it when he asked about 6 seconds.
I saw a great B movie that did something similar about PCs shooting the bad guys while the DM was trying to read dialogue. You all need to check out the movie "The Gamers" by Dead Gentlemen. A friend brought it 1 day for our D&D group to see at teh end of the night any D&D players or anyone who knows D&D players has to see this hilarious spoof on gaming. I think it's less than an hour long (the website is deadgentlemen.com I'm not selling them, just think everyone should see this hilarious movie; I'm waiting for their 2nd D&D spoof which should be out in the near future). In addition to the arrow during dialogue, they also spoof trusting new beings who happen to be other PCs even when found outside evil castles, backstabbing damage, and thieves stealing things:
PC: "I steal his pants."
DM: "Why do you want to steal his pants?"
PC: "I don't want the pants; I just want to see if I can steal them."
It shows how anything can be accomplished or failed because it is based on dice rolling, not common sense.
Yeah, they should totally move into the tower. But with no shops, no taverns, and no wenches? They'd soon find that "this town sucks." There's that, and the risk of Dutch Elm Disease.
Love it!! Laughing like a maniac. I discovered this and read them all in one sitting – this is so funny because it's so true. Thanks for giving the nameless GM a voice. Great work. Please keep it up.
Around here we use "Three points!" as "Nice shot!", as it happens. I'm in the UK, but it's a baskteball term – the three-pointers are the tricky long-distance ones, right?
AndrewNZachsDad says:
Hah! I love it! Only problem is, Shamus, you're likely to get me fired. Got any WFH positions available at your company? I'd be willing to relocate. Michigan (?) can't be that different from Alberta…
Polk Says:…the Scourging of the Shire. On every read through it was one of my favorite chapters!
I can't in good conscience agree with your opinion. (I recognize it is your opinion and respect that. I just don't agree with it.) I understand from a literary point of view the impact which this chapter is supposed to have – the end of innocence, you can't go home again, change is inevitable, yadda yadda. The problem I have is that I want to go home again!!! I love the idylic view of the Shire from the opening of the story and it breaks my heart when they go home to find that progress has ruined their peaceful utopia. I loved this chapter from a symbolic sense when I first read the books (about half a million years ago, I think), but the next time I read them I was practically in tears at the beginning because I knew what would happen to that lovely place. I hated that!
That said, the Scourging of the Shire would have been a better way to end than the morose Walking Away of the Elves. I love looking at Liv Tyler (shallow, I know), but I found myself wishing that part would just end so I could pee.
Keep up the good work, Shamus!
Aw rats! Forgot to end the italics tag!
Curse these unthinking boxes! =)
Doesn't Sam see the Shite being pillaged by Saruman in Galadriel's Mirror? What was the point of that if it doesn't happen? Also, it shows Jackson shot at least some of it.
Morits says:
I only discovered this site today from a link in Wizards of the Coast.
PCs never pay attention.
PCs are a bunch of Thugs who want to murder people and steal their stuff.
PCs hate NPCs who have speaking parts.
The dice that fell behind the computer.
Conversation is always about computer geekery and pizaa, never about the Game-World.
It is all so true!
Marmot says:
This is getting seriously out of hand. I wonder if they'll decide to burn Denetho…..
oops. Gandalf gets to do that.
Amazing one, as always!
Attorney At Chaos says:
"Around here we use "Three points!" as "Nice shot!", as it happens. I'm in the UK, but it's a baskteball term – the three-pointers are the tricky long-distance ones, right?"
True enough – it's just that "Two Points" as a generic expression predates the change in the rules of basketball that introduced the three point shot. "Two points" was being used in that manner at least as far back as the 60s and probably earlier. The NBA added the 3-pointer around 1980. (Though the ABA and a few college experiments predated that, that's when it became generally accepted.)
I heard "two points" moderately regularly on the east coast of the US, but upon reflection it isn't used much on the west coast (at least around here).
Nogard_Codesmith says:
Gets better and better.
BTW Shamus, I really liked your interview. If you decide you want to DM again, I'll play. Ive got a great setup for voice chat, maps, minis, and dice.
are not those pictures of Saruman from the Two Towers when the Ents invade Isenguard?
Good comics, you should have put the last two into one if you ask me but none the less funny
Nomi says:
Matt: in the book Sam sees the Shire being burned down but in the movie its Frodo that sees it. Its a forwarning of what might happen depending on the Fellowship's actions. In the context of the movie its really what would of happened if Frodo hadn't destroyed the ring.
And while I'm crawling out of lurker-dom, am I the only one who didn't think Legolas was a jerk for shooting Grima in the movie? They needed Saurman alive to get information out of him o_o
The scouring of the shire in the movie would have been awesome, and I still mourn the fact that the Barrowdowns weren't in it, but I understand Jackson's reasoning behind it all…
K – Imma crawl back under ma lurker rock now =)
Siliconscout says:
Personally it was my favorite part of the book because the boys coming back has some serious whoop a** going on.
I was really looking forward to seeing an "army" of Hobbits taking on the bad guys and was crushed when I heard he never shot it so it wouldn't be on a special edition.
Fickle says:
Out of context, Legolas asking if an awkward silence lasts longer than six seconds is fantastic. XD But Legolas in general is amusing the hell out of me. Mind of a six-year-old, body of a —
Yeah, let's not go there. ^_~
Great job on the stitching together of the tower! That must have taken some heavy Photoshop skills, Shamus.
Sartorius says:
I think this is important enough to point out:
The Shire is not burnt, sacked, or pillaged. It is industrialized. Saruman moves in, establishes what amounts to a totalitarian government, and begins setting up factories and despoiling the landscape. He does to the Shire more or less what he does to Orthanc. Nobody came and burnt down all the houses and slaughtered the Hobbits – his group of halforcs merely banded together with some undesirable elements amongst the hobbits themselves, and took over political control.
Thus, when the hobbits return, it is to an industrial police state, not a barren wasteland. Saruman did not obliterate the Shire; he ruined it.
True enough – it's just that "Two Points" as a generic expression predates the change in the rules of basketball that introduced the three point shot. "Two points" was being used in that manner at least as far back as the 60s and probably earlier. The NBA added the 3-pointer around 1980. (Though the ABA and a few college experiments predated that, that's when it became generally accepted.)
I heard "two points" moderately regularly on the east coast of the US, but upon reflection it isn't used much on the west coast (at least around here).
Over in New Zealand, this is used in a totally different way that still works. When driving, if a pedestrian is particularly annoying, a passenger will offer the driver a number of points to run them down. The more mobile the pedestrian is, the less points. (Eg. fit adult = 1pt, old lady on a walking frame = 50pts). It should be mentioned that these points arent worth anything, and the driver isnt actually supposed to take them up on the offer.
I'll have to agree with the removal of the Sharkey plotlines, as having a conflict after the climax of the movie is rather, well, anti-climactic. Personally, I never really liked it that much anyways, as it's a strange business and change of pace for this uber-powerful wizard who was raising an orc army to take over Rohan to somehow make his way over to the shire and run a group of petty thugs instead.
I'll agree with the part about some of the unnecessary add-ons to the movie. Some of the scenes I could understand, like the Wargs attacking to add an action scene in the middle of an otherwise dry sequence, but some of the others were just strange, unnecessary and rather against Tolkein's works, like the entire portrayal of Faramir.
Downtym says:
Player's Guide to Killing Major NPC's (who are consistently a pain in your rear):
1. Lull the DM into a sense of confidence that his NPC will never be defeated.
2. Wait until said NPC begins a long exposition.
3. Ask for surprise or just roll initiative.
4. Shake-and-bake the bad guy.
5. If the bad guy escapes, try to start over at 1. If he dies, make sure to (in this order): Loot, Demand XP Commensurate for Defeating a Major Encounter (Afterall, the bad guy did give you the slip and you were smart enough to finally defeat him), and then Burn the corpse, pulverize the ashes, vacuum whatever is left up into a bag of holding which you tie off and dump into a volcano which you then destroy with an orb of annihilation – the bad guy is going to be ressed, you just need to make sure that when he is that there's a great story to go along with it.
6. Giggle.
orcbane says:
Whenever I killed my DM's favorite NPC, the NPC suddenly gained some secret feat that allowed him to survive all to the way to -21 HP, and remain active for that time… So It took me two more rounds to kill him and shut the DM up.
Its been said if Tolkein submitted LOTR as a manuscript today he'd be unlikely to get published, and definately not in its current format. Even in his day when he first submitted his manuscript apparently he was advised to make some changes which he refused to do and the manuscript sat in some draw for a few years. Tolkein's style jars against current trends in writing, and definately against audience expectations of movie plots, especially Hollywood style movies. You just have to see some Hollywood remakes of European or Asian movies to see the differences between them. So I'm sympathetic to the scriptwriters of LOTR movie who had to make some difficult choices between being true to the book and audience expectation (thinking of those who havent read the book which I guess would be the majority).
But I think he should have bucked the trend and gone for the Scouring of the Shire. Sure it was a mini climax after the main climax, but so what? Only the film/script cognescenti would have complained. And really they could have pared down the 40 minute scenes of reuniting hobbits and the tearful scenes of the ring bearers heading west on the elven ship.
Still whats done is done, and I'm glad the movie was made. Maybe the remake in another 50 years or so will include it.
Over in New Zealand, this is used in a totally different way that still works. When driving, if a pedestrian is particularly annoying, a passenger will offer the driver a number of points to run them down. The more mobile the pedestrian is, the less points. (Eg. fit adult = 1pt, old lady on a walking frame = 50pts).
This joke originated from the movie "Death Race 2000" (1975), wherein contestants in a race actually did earn a certain number of points for hitting different people.
Personally, I never really liked it that much anyways, as it's a strange business and change of pace for this uber-powerful wizard who was raising an orc army to take over Rohan to somehow make his way over to the shire and run a group of petty thugs instead.
There is a thematic point that Saruman is, in the final calculation, petty and pathetic. Gandalf comments at one point that, impressive as Orthanc appears to be, it's really just a weak, feeble imitation of the Barad-Dur, and that Saruman is somewhat risible for believing that he could contend with Sauron. Witness his final humiliation when he is taken over by Gandalf's party on the road north from Orthanc, and he is reduced to stealing Merry's tobacco pouch. At the end of his career, Saruman is puffed up about having become the petty tyrant of the Shire – yet how diminished this is from his dreams of dethroning the Dark Lord.
Isoyami says:
Tuesday May 8, 2007 at 12:00 am
@Sartorius (#61).
Yea… but when Gandalf the Grey fights Saruman in Fellowship (when Frodo is traveling to Rivendell [or is that Frito heading to Rivertown? ;) ]) Saruman kicks Gandalf's pansy bard ass all over Orthanc. Heheh.
Of course, when Gandalf ressurects as Gandalf the White, that's a different story.
Whoops… should be (#62), not (#61). Sorry.
And you make a good point, Sartorius, I'm just being silly. :D
@Isoyami
It's also worth noting that technically they're not allowed to fight each other, and would not have faced off with magic. Yet that doesn't 'show' well in a movie.
(This relates to one real annoyance of mine in the movie HHGttG where, rather than dialog talking the foreman into laying down instead of Arthur, Ford just bribes people with beer. Good dialog is rare and should be preserved, dang it!)
Tuesday May 8, 2007 at 1:29 am
Most common around here is "Shot Tex". Think it came from how in most old cowboy films the really good shots came from Texas.
@Matt 47
Most humourous typo in a while (I think you mean "Shire" not "Shite")
"Nice Shootin' Tex" is another one I use from time to time, but it's employed as a movie quote. (Ghostbusters) It's usually used when someone is an exceptionally BAD shot.
empty_other says:
If it had been my players: "We got ourself a Stronghold! :) " To much Baldurs Gate 2 i guess (which is evident in their playing style too).
luagha says:
I will mention something a friend of mine pointed out to me from the books:
If you look at Frodo's conversations, especially his conversations with various powerful people (Elrond, Galadriel, Faramir, Saruman) Frodo is actually really good at sussing people out. At getting them to give up to him serious clues as to their real motivations. And quite specifically this comes in when he meets Saruman as Sharkey. Frodo realizes that Saruman is specifically trying to taunt Frodo into killing him, and resolves not to give Saruman what he wants – he realizes there's a trick.
And indeed there is. Saruman has some kind of retributive strike thing going on. Any mortal being who dares to kill him is smitten with a curse (it is not given for mortal creatures to kill the bodies of archangels, even fallen ones) and soon dies. Which is why Wormtongue is the one lured into it, and you get the whole evil-feeding-on-itself theme.
Deathblade_Penguin/aka Minion of Darkness says:
Hey I'm back (i've been writing school reports) so i will combine my four comments into one handy nifty comment today..
1) Shamus – Great Great Great!!! Although i think that Gandalf should change sides at this point (maybe influenced by the ring he wears .. it could do that right.. i never got mine in the mail STEVE!)…
2) I've always in the path saved my favourite NPCs by making them vampires. Yes it was a cop out at the beginning and then it becamee so expected… it was
GM "your arrow hits, he falls from the tower and to his death"
PLAYERS " we rush over and remove his head from his body"
3) I've never heared the 2 points expression.. I'm in Australia though..
4) I definately think Shamus should run an online DnD game… I definately play and i'm very honest with my dice rolls…
Psalm of Chaos says:
Hey-hey!^^
This is my first post, but I've been reading DM of the rings for a while. Shamus, you are an absolute gun, it's amazing some how you've come up with some of these lines and this strip is no exception. Go Shamus!^^
As in regards to an online dnd campaign, we would be missing out on DM of the Rings!^^ Also, look how many people would want to play, he'd have to have about 5 mini DMs running his pre-written campaign, each with a group of about 6 players and that would be before things really take off.
Anyway, go Legolas you star!^^ Go Gimli because he used to be a serious RPer before this campaign. Go Aragorn 'cause he's like my old DnD character, Turin, yes a direct rip-off from the character out of the silmarillion.
Stay Metal,
Psalm of Chaos
Ah i do so love watching peter jacksons vision torn asunder, however is it just me or does our resident Elf PC seeme to be realy living up to the old joke of AD&D standing for attention defiset disorder?
i smell a destinct lack of RP XP for this campeign
required says:
As I read it, Saruman is only released after the ring has been destroyed and he has lost almost all of his power, so Treebeard considers him now quite harmless, though Gandalf points out that he still has the power with his voice, to manipulate people. That is what he used to get his petty revenge on the shire and it shows how deep he has fallen.
I like how the hobbits rise up, themselves, showing that they can indeed be strong and the fact that they manage to mend the Shire again only shows how resilliant they are – returning to their old merry ways quite fast (while not forgetting what happened, of course – just not beaten by it). That part, more than anything, shows that there's more to the hobbits than you'd think just by looking at them, which is the kind of strenght that helped Frody, Sam, Merry and Pippin so well. Surely, they have much much more of it than other hobbits, but it's the same kind of strenght, I think.
Only Frodo has taken more damage than what can be healed, but that makes perfect sense given what he went through and it only underlines how tough an advisary they were against.
Okay – I'll stop ranting now ;)
A) The "two points" line: I didn't think that was Aragorn saying nice shot to Leggy; I thought it was aimed at nothing in particular because Saruman fell all that way, and landed directly on the spiky thing, a perfect landing.
B)51 Nogard_Codesmith Says: "Shamus, If you decide you want to DM again, I'll play. Ive got a great setup for voice chat, maps, minis, and dice."
Forget that, Shamus! I'll commute!
Destroy Gundam says:
This is the second time Saruman's said "?!?". He started to "sound" like those cannon fodder units from the SRW (Super Robot Wars) video games. I'm more of an anime nerd than a D&D nerd.
And I think the dive deserves at least 3 points.
If you run a game Shamus, I'm so in! And who isn't honest with their die rolls … ;)
Gbyron says:
As for saving uber-major NPCs there is one solution.
Soul-Gem.
The uber-major NPC sends his/her/its soul in a gem, which places on the pommel of the +5 Holy Avenger he keeps in his hoard. Then, it is up to the DM how to resurrect him.
He can then slowly but effectively corrupt the righteous paladin who will certainly use the sword.
Saichen says:
hmm, might we maybe consider a level in "Fortune's Friend"?
[Even Lucas only had one set of do overs.]
Sweet Azathoth's Brain! I hadn't thought of that!
A third retelling of the "classic"? What would that be, like a 2D10 SAN loss?
[re: "points" for -t-r-a-f-f-i-c- -h-a-z-a-r-d-s- pedestrians]This joke originated from the movie "Death Race 2000″³ (1975), wherein contestants in a race actually did earn a certain number of points for hitting different people.
Nah, it's quite a bit older than that. So much so that I'd venture to guess that tha film was born when someone said it.
In my part of England (Coventry) the phrase was usually prefaced with "He's in play!" too.
I live in New York now, where the biggest hazard to driving is the "surface" of the road, which resembles that upon which Neil Armstrong trod sometime in the previous century. If this city never sleeps, how come nobody ever gets round to filling the holes in the freeway?
Salen says:
He had it coming to him. And on the dive, he only gets a 7.5, since he didn't keep his form in mid-dive. That's gunna cost him the gold medal, and the water.
Steve: Its because the city never sleeps. There is always someone driving over that section of road. thus the newly poured contrete go splash and makes the road worse.
Before we continue to rip Peter Jackson, remember that this is hindsight, and how many things he could have screwed up to please Hollywood. Before the movies came out, I was terrified! We could have had an hour of Robin Williams as Tom Bombadil! Kevin Costner as Boromir! ( "He was that Robin Hood guy,right? Good, he knows swordplay…) He could have had Arwen kill the Lord of the Nazgul! ("Look , Liv Tyler's making a mint, make he do something…she can still say 'I am no man!'") All in all, he still made 3 great movies… not many people can do that.
PCs kill BBEG.
I was DMing Sunless Citadel, Belak was such a nifty BBEG that I decided he would escape "The World shall hear from me again. Mwah ha ha!"
PCs encounter BBEG. Belak explains his cunning plan, but before he can even show off his Big red self-destruct Button, PCs attack him. He escpaes, PCs kill his minions and then whinge that it had been an anti-climax.
Tuesday May 8, 2007 at 1:13 pm
@Salen (81) Good point.
I can just imagine Leggy, Aragormless and Gimli holding up little signs to rate Sharky's dive "9" … "9" … "8" "The half twist in midair was good, and the landing impaled on the big spiky thing was a _NICE_ touch, but you didn't hit the water, laddy, so I had to dock you".
On the other had, Saruman IS the only competitor, so he should get the gold medal anyways. ;)
The spikes add a whole new meaning to the phrase: "He sticks the dismount!"
"If you run a game Shamus, I'm so in! And who isn't honest with their die rolls"
me too!!
That's Dark Lord Steve, Soul Reaver and Guardian of the Twelve Forbidden Precepts to you, Deathblade_Penguin.
Apparently your ring arrived with import duty due (a paperwork error on the part of UPS), to the tune of Aus $1.5, which you declined to pay. The ring was then auctioned off and is currently being worn by a member of the Gundagai Touring Theatre Company, currently presenting "Brigadoon" to the public five times a week. The tour takes in a number of small towns in country otherwise defined (according to my Phillips School Atlas (1963)) as "scrub, steppe and semi-desert" and as a result I have had a raging thirst for the last seven days and all my food tastes of Witchety Grubs. Not only that, I can't think straight because I have "Almost Like Being In Love" playing in Mr Brain 24×7.
Next time I go in for interpersonal domination and will subjugation, I'll do it the conventional way with a 1-800 number, a Myspace page and some leather lingerie.
Well, Deathblade_Penguin, I got MY ring & it's beautiful & shiny & round with a hole in the center & … suddenly I have the urge to buy donuts again…
Peterus says:
Wednesday May 9, 2007 at 4:54 am
Legolas just saved Shire from unpleasant encounter with Saruman…
Damn this campaign is HILARIOUS. I've just read the whole comic today for the first time and have been laughing my ass off for the most of it. Just waiting for the next episode :).
Tominator2 says:
Friday May 11, 2007 at 3:04 pm
From what I've read, the Scouring of the Shire was Tolkien's favorite chapter. He saw all that had gone before as a prelude to it. The "purpose" of all the dragons and orcs and danger was to toughen up the hobbits for their real mission: defeating the industrialists. The structure of the story as a whole reflects his ideas about the meaning of "fairy stories", and what he meant his reader to take from LoTR.
Tolkein was extremely old school. He was unapologetically racist and sexist. His politics were monarchist (he hated our freedoms! *gasp*), his world-view was strictly hierarchical (with the Pope and the King at top). He did not see any of his views as "political" – they were as natural to him as the air he breathed – so it may have never occurred to him that others would view his writings as barely-concealed political works.
To make a long post short, the Scouring would appear to most modern eyes as a blatant political rant, completely ruining the movie. It was a good thing it was left out.
Keldin says:
Tominator, I see your point, but I'd have to opine that Tolkien did not see his book as anti-industrial. He certainly saw tyranny and evil in the industrial war machine that had ravaged and still threatened the world at the time, but he did not intend his book to be strictly allegorical — he wanted a feeling if universality to pervade the book. I've read some of his letters / essays on the topic and he didn't like allegories that railroaded the reader.
As for criticism of Peter Jackson's films, there's a lot to be made – but I've been thinking that perhaps Jackson had other issues on his mind than 100% fidelity to the text. We all know that stuff had to be cut (I mean, The Fellowship could easily be expanded into 2 or even three movies depending on how detailed you wanted to be) but I'm betting there were logistical reasons that one would have to be a professional filmmaker to fully grasp "we've only got Wyatt the stuntman for 5 days, and he's the only one who can do that horse trick!" Or conversely, "well, if we do the whole Shire sequence it'll mean we have to extend Christopher Lee's contract and that'll put us over budget. But I still have 25 hours of time I HAVE to use him for. I guess I'd better just wax him at the tower." Probably other things that like I say, I couldn't imagine never having made a film.
Scott King Crandall says:
I love this one. I had a group of younger players at one point, and while camping I told them they spotted a large creature flying across the sky at least a mile away. Nothing I tried convinced them they should not fire a magic arrow at it. Then they all got upset when I had the Black Dragon turn and come after them, since they were only level 6 players….. sigh….
Friday Oct 12, 2007 at 1:59 pm
I just found this from Steve Jackson's site. It's all been funny but this one had me laughing too hard to breathe.
Longer than six seconds? – just brilliant.
The Gremlin says:
Sunday Jan 13, 2008 at 7:28 pm
Cynder says:
Friday Jan 18, 2008 at 12:43 am
It sucks cuz I have only seen RotK once. That was a few weeks ago :P
Umm…okay, I will admit that I totally forgot Legolas hit Saruman with an arrow and he fell to his death. Total shamejob *hangs head in shame*
I think I'll post twice more just for the sake of making 100 posts.
100 posts. Everyone wins!!
nitefly says:
Monday Mar 31, 2008 at 10:00 am
Hilarious. I don't think any roleplayer has prewritten dialogue since the brown box back in 74! Perfect, Shamus!
I always hated that scripted crap, detoriated roleplaying into a glorified Sword & Sorcery book with polyhedral dice. We don't need to return to that crap :oD
Hey- so do you have a life, or is this it??? lol. You're crazy, & shame on people for wasting their time reading this. You make me sick…~~Lisa
dragon nataku says:
*cough* The person responsible for the previous comment has been sacked.
And had a really bad magician with non-fake swords perform the "pincushion" trick on aforementioned sack.
We now return you to your regular programming.
Helix says:
Monday Aug 11, 2008 at 3:54 am
Bwaaahahahahaha. "Thwunk".
I laughed until a little bit of wee came out.
Friday Dec 12, 2008 at 1:46 pm
Heh, great comic. We did this to our DM playing WFRP….his big end-boss monologued & the elf archer killed him with one shot.
Friday Dec 19, 2008 at 6:53 am
I love how Legolas completely raped the design, completely utterly. "Longer than six seconds?"
Complete genius.
ERROR says:
Wait, why is the DM accusing them of murder just now? Throughout the campaign, during the fight scenes, they did nothing but chop off orc heads and the like.
WJS says:
Friday Jun 13, 2014 at 1:35 pm
Because those orcs were trying to kill them? Is that really hard to understand?
If you shoot someone who's trying to kill you, it's self defense. If you shoot someone who's trying to talk to you, it's first degree murder.
Clinto says:
Saturday May 9, 2009 at 8:54 am
Writing dialog? Does anyone still do this? Doesn't anyone simply character act? The game is always fresh and interesting if even the DM has no idea how any of it will turn out; refraining from scripting almost automatically provides this.
joesolo says:
Saturday Aug 14, 2010 at 12:04 am
there gonna try and loot the whole tower now.
Wednesday Mar 2, 2011 at 7:16 pm
YES I AM HERE TO CONTINUE LOVING LEGOLAS >>
Anyway, when I read it what made it the funniest was that Legolas didn't even seem to be trying to screw up the campaign, he just LOVES shooting people.
Cervius says:
Thursday Feb 2, 2012 at 5:26 pm
Pure awesome.
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You can enclose spoilers in <strike> tags like so:
<strike>Darth Vader is Luke's father!</strike>
You can make things italics like this:
Can you imagine having Darth Vader as your <i>father</i>?
You can make things bold like this:
I'm <b>very</b> glad Darth Vader isn't my father.
You can make links like this:
I'm reading about <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darth_Vader">Darth Vader</a> on Wikipedia!
You can quote someone like this:
Darth Vader said <blockquote>Luke, I am your father.</blockquote>
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'We Have Always Supported the Democratic Process'
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Aung San Suu Kyi receives a posthumous gift from former Czech deputy prime minister Karel Schwarzenberg during a meeting in Naypyidaw, July 17, 2012. / The Irrawaddy
By Kyaw Zwa Moe 3 June 2019
Working closely with the late president Vaclav Havel, former Czech foreign minister Karel Schwarzenberg championed democracy movements, including the one led by Daw Aung San Suu Kyi, during his time in office. To mark the State Counselor's visit to Prague this week, The Irrawaddy revisits this interview with Schwarzenberg, which was first published in March 2014.
PRAGUE — Karel Schwarzenberg, a former deputy prime minister and minister of foreign affairs for the Czech Republic, has long supported Burma's pro-democracy movement, together with his former President Vaclav Havel, who was the first to nominate opposition leader Aung San Suu Kyi for a Nobel Peace Prize.
Schwarzenberg, a candidate for the presidency in 2013, spoke recently to Kyaw Zwa Moe, editor of The Irrawaddy magazine's English edition, at his office in Prague. He shared his views on Burma's reform and explained the Czech Republic's dedicated support to the country's democracy process.
When you met with Burma's President U Thein Sein and Lower House Speaker U Shwe Mann in Naypyidaw in 2012, what kind of promises did you hear from them, regarding the country's reform process?
They spoke quite openly, saying they needed to start with rule of law and democracy, and they have been partially successful in this, but not fully. Of course, the main problem seems to be that these things are impossible as long as you have wars with ethnic armed groups and conflicts between Muslims and Buddhists, as is the case in the western part of the country. It's important to end all this fighting in different states. It's impossible to have it [rule of law and democracy] as long as soldiers and armed conflicts dominate.
In the two years since you visited, have you seen any political progress in Burma? Last year you said the reform process was moving slower than expected. What's your assessment now?
The reform is rather slow. They are making some progress, but it's too little.
Ahead of Burma's 2015 election, Aung San Suu Kyi and other political leaders are trying to get the 2008 undemocratic Constitution amended. Do you think it will likely be changed?
It's necessary to change the Constitution and to remove privileges for the armed forces, which are really extraordinary. But it's clear to me that it will be very difficult as long as there are existing armed conflicts in Burma. Of course there is always a danger that some people are interested in prolonging armed conflicts, which justify the strong presence of the army and the special privileges granted in the present Constitution.
What role did the armed forces play in the Czech Republic after the Velvet Revolution in 1989?
Not a special role. There were civil commands, and ministers were not members of the armed forces. Ministers of defense have not been members of the armed forces since the 1970s. There were only two exceptions. Normally our defense ministers are civilians. And we don't have such a big armed force because we are not facing any armed conflicts at the moment. Our armed forces are perfectly integrated into the democratic state.
Kyaw Zwa Moe, left, editor of The Irrawaddy magazine's English-language edition, speaks with Karel Schwarzenberg, a former deputy prime minister and minister of foreign affairs for the Czech Republic, in Prague. (Photo: The Irrawaddy)
Aung San Suu Kyi contested the by-elections in 2012 and became a parliamentarian. It is believed that her mission is to collaborate with the government and military. Is she on the right track?
She has to cooperate with them. Otherwise, things could turn again in the wrong direction. I think we need to see the military slowly give up its special privileges, which again is always difficult as long as you have armed conflicts.
The European Union has offered a lot of support to Burma, including by supporting the government's peace process. What kind of policy should the European Union take against the Burmese government if they don't keep their promises for the reform process?
Well, first of all, the European Union has problems which are more urgent than the situation in Burma. That's why we have to have a good relationship with Burma, for economic and security reasons. Burma is an important country and has economic potential. Of course, the EU would prefer democracy and rule of law in Burma. But they know, anyway, that they have much less influence than big powers that are neighbors of Burma. Burma is not so much economically dependent on the European Union. That means, compared with China, India and then the United States, the EU has less influence.
Currently, in which areas and sectors does the Czech Republic support Burma?
Thanks to our former President Vaclav Havel, we have supported Aung San Suu Kyi. As you know, it was Havel who nominated her for the Nobel Peace Prize. We have always supported the democratic process in Burma. It's quite clear we are still trying to help. That's our position.
Vaclav Havel and the Czech Republic, as you said, have been quite supportive of Burma's pro-democracy process, perhaps more so than other countries. Why is that?
Haval was convinced that when we achieved a free and democratic country at the end of 1989, it was our duty to help other nations which didn't yet have that privilege. It was our duty, for the other people who were still under dictatorial regimes. That was a conviction of Vaclav Havel, and it's my conviction, too.
You were in exile for more than 40 years. Burma also has a large diaspora community across the world. What kind of experiences or message do you want to share with them?
Never give up. I was outside for 41 years. All that time, I always hoped to get back and was always very interested in what was happening in the country. You never should give up the fight for democracy and freedom.
In 2015, we will have general elections. The past general elections in 2010 were rigged and the military-backed Union Solidarity and Development Party (USDP) won by landslide. What's your take on the upcoming elections?
I think it will be better than the last time. It probably won't be perfect yet—that would be a miracle.
In the past, Czechoslovakia and socialist Burma had a business relationship. Do you think the Czech Republic should start doing businesses now in Burma, like some other foreign countries have?
Of course. I've always said they [Czech businesses] should urgently compete in Burma. I know Chinese [businesses] have a very strong position in Burma. Also, Japanese and other European countries are in strong positions. We were there in the '70s. But I still think it's worth fighting for. So they [Czech businesses] should be there today.
The Czech Republic has started establishing its diplomatic mission in Rangoon. What should be at the top of the agenda for the Czech government and its mission?
To travel more around the country so they can know the whole country, not only Rangoon and the capital [Naypyidaw]. They also can and should encourage Czech businessmen, entrepreneurs and industries to enter Burma and see their opportunities to invest there. Because Burma, if it is wisely ruled, has a great future.
Aung San Suu Kyi has publicly said she wants to be president in 2015. Can you comment on that?
She is the best candidate and hopefully she will make it. Fingers crossed for her.
Topics: Aung San Suu Kyi, Democratic, Karel Schwarzenberg
Kyaw Zwa Moe The Irrawaddy Kyaw Zwa Moe is the Editor of the English edition of The Irrawaddy.


text:
Marnane eyes Galway for Koybig
Koybig wins under Donagh O'Connor
A loosening of the handicapper's grip saw Koybig bring up his sixth career success in the International Hotel Handicap at Killarney.
The seven-year-old gelding had dropped to a mark of 71 and Donagh O'Connor took a further 3lbs off. He had been as high as 83 last August.
O'Connor angled him out to come with a run in the final quarter of a mile.
The 8/1 shot picked up well and led narrowly over a furlong out. He was soon ridden and fended off Minnie Haha (5/1) by a neck. Angels completed the placings in third, a length and a quarter away.
Trainer David Marnane said: "We got him last year and Denis McGettigan wanted a couple of horses for friends of his and we had him in Dundalk last year, but I didn't think he was on the top of his game.
"He has had a break this year and has come back very well and had a good run at Limerick the last day (when third).
"There are a couple of options at Galway and while he hasn't run there, he'd suit Galway and looks like he'd come out of the dip well."
Additional reporting by Tom Weekes
International Hotel H'cap €12,500.00 1m 25yds
Koybig (IRE) (4)
Tote €12.00 €2.50
Minnie Haha (FR) (5)
Angels (GB) (7)
Red Striker (IRE) (1)
Tintoretto (IRE) (3)
4/1Fav
Ninth win for nine-year-old Tai Sing Yeh
Durable nine-year-old Tai Sing Yeh made all to win the concluding six-furlong handicap at 16/1.


text:
December 6, 2013 trishburr
As you have probably heard in the media our beloved Nelson Mandela fondly known as Madiba (a title of respect derived from his Xhosa clan name) passed on last night. His part on earth as had a major influence on all our lives, not only in South Africa but universally and I feel it a fitting tribute to end this year by remembering some of his extraordinary qualities, and reflecting on his life before we all move onto the busy, Christmas period and a new year.
To quote my daughter Tessa: "For me, Mandela's passing is a reminder to take stock of ourselves by looking at the man for what he represented. His qualities and how they affected so many people for good. What an amazing man whose legacy and qualities will live on. We can all be a little more kind, more accepting of others, more forgiving, more humble in our small daily acts. "
Madiba reading to children
"No one is born hating another person because of the color of his skin, or his background, or his religion. People must learnt to hate, and if they can learn to hate, they can be taught to love, for love comes more naturally to the human heart than its opposite." Nelson Mandela
"I learned that courage was not the absence of fear, but the triumph over it. The brave man is not he who does not feel afraid, but he who conquers that fear." Nelson Mandela
"Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness, that frightens us most. We ask ourselves, "Who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous, talented, and famous?" Actually who are you not to be? You are a child of God. Your playing small does not serve the world. There is nothing enlightened about shrinking so that people won't feel insecure around you. We are born to make manifest the glory of God that is withn us. It's not just in some of us; it's in all of us, and when we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. As we are liberted from out own fear, our presence automatically liberates others." Quote by Marianne Williamson – used by Nelson Mandela in his 1994 inaugural speech.
Nelson Mandela and FW De Klerk
Wherever you are in the world lets celebrate the life of Madiba, and give thanks for his wonderful example and qualities of love, unselfishness and kindness the way to true freedom. Trish
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16 thoughts on "MADIBA"
shelagh7y says:
What a turn out Trish, and it rained. Can't get better than that.
Well done Mr Mandela
Glenys Wild says:
We all share the sentiments in your tribute. The world has lost a wonderful human being. May he sleep peacefully now.
Thank you, Trish. For me, the greatest tribute to Madiba is that you are able to publish this post about a black man without fear of retribution. That says a lot as far as I am concerned.
Thank you Trish for the tribute, and giving us the opportunity to say 'Thank You' to this extraordinary human being.
sandra lobb says:
We need more leaders like this man,a wonderful person
Let us remember the power of forgiveness, courage and love as lived by Nelson Mandela
The "Out Deepest Fear" quote is misattributed to Mandela. The author is Marianne Williamson, and there is no record of Mandela ever using it.
http://bit.ly/II7QcB
Diane Bean says:
Lovely tribute to an honest, wonderful man. He gave people motivation and lifted them up and gave them hope. He will not be forgotten.
Connie Martin says:
What a wise, wonderful leader he was. I am so thankful to have been taught tolerance and love. It must be such a burden to hate others. Thanks for your beautiful note.
Connie in Ohio, USA
cynthiagilbreth says:
He was a truly great man. Thank you for this loving tribute to someone who has made a great mark upon this world.
Dr Bonnie says:
Here in the US, we were saddened to hear the news of Madiba's passing late late last night. Truly, the **world** is better place because of him. Thank you for this loving tribute.l
therese1938 says:
What a lovely tribute to this great man. May God bless his soul!
Jean Creighton says:
Amen. Well said , and heartfelt. God Bless. Thank you.
123gteve says:
What a beautiful tribute to a man who was special and admired by everyone. Thank you.
Mariateresa Colotti says:
Thanks!!!!! Mariateresa
Thank you Trish for such a lovely tribute to a man that has touched more hearts in this world than any other


text:
(-) Book Review
Award-Winning Articles
(-) Priscilla
(-) 1 Timothy
(-) 1 Corinthians
(-) Culture/Current Events
Feminine Language for God
(-) Historical Women-Church
Parenting / Youth
(-) Patriarchy
(-) Pornography
Purity Culture
A Voice of Her Own
By Lorraine Eitel | April 29, 1989
Tischler's book is an intellectual history, acquainting the reader with important women authors throughout history. She also introduces her reader to several important female literary characters.
The Private War of Mrs. Packard: The Dramatic Story of a Nineteenth Century Feminist
By James R. Beck | January 30, 1992
Every time discouragement sets in because of the slow progress of egalitarian ideas, we ought to be able to reach over our shoulders and pull from the shelf a book such as Sapinsley's. The story of Mrs. Packard (1816-1897), set in the American midwest, should remind all of us how much has been accomplished by our forebears.
Women in the Church: A Fresh Analysis of 1 Timothy 2:9-15
By John Stanley | April 29, 1998
Women in the Church is a dangerous book which should not have been published because, while it appears to be scholarly, it actually teems with historical and theological errors and also emotional subjectivity. Alan G. Padgett has provided a critical rebuttal to Women in the Church in the Winter 1997 issue of Priscilla Papers.
Priscilla's Letter
By Estella Horning | October 30, 1998
Ruth Hoppin has spent decades researching Adolf Harnack's hypothesis that Priscilla wrote the biblical Epistle to the Hebrews. A first book, Priscilla, Author of the Epistle to the Hebrews, was published in the late 1960s. Since that time additional relevant material has been published, some of it related to the Dead Sea Scrolls. This book is an update which takes such material into account.
A Hero from Yesterday: Phoebe Palmer's The Promise of the Father
By Martha Berg | October 30, 2000
Palmer's underlying thesis is that the promise of the Father to pour out his Spirit on all flesh, male and female, and that sons and daughters would prophesy, relates to the role of women in the church today.
Women of Influence: Women of Devotion Through the Centuries
By Evelyn Bence | January 30, 2002
Forbes now is in secular academia, teaching rhetoric in writing, and she's turned her research attention to selected women who have unwittingly wielded a great deal of influence if not power, particularly in the twentieth century: devotional writers or compilers.
Cultural of Analysis: Slaves, Women, and Homosexuals
By Joseph Modica | July 30, 2002
Slaves, Women and Homosexuals is a hermeneutical tour de force. Webb severs ties with traditional hermeneutical textbooks by offering intra-scriptural and extrascriptural criteria and a case study approach (akin to W. M. Swartley's Slavery, Sabbath, War & Women) rather than a step-by-step methodology.
Daughters of Islam: Building Bridges with Muslim Women
By Shirley Barron | December 04, 2002
Daughters of Islam: Building Bridges with Muslim Women is a wonderfully relevant book for Christians who have little knowledge of Islam or the people who subscribe to it. This book helps readers peer into the hearts of Muslim women, to perceive what they feel and think, and to understand how they live.
Her Story: Autobiographical Portraits of Early Methodist Women
By Ruby Renz | October 30, 2003
Paul Wesley Chilcote has found a treasure trove of autobiographical literature written by Methodist women who lived from the early 1700s to the middle 1800s. Chilcote gives informative introductions to each woman's writings, placing her in her historical context.
Wild at Heart: Essential Reading or "Junk Food of the Soul"?
By Nealson Munn, Brynn Camery-Hoggatt | October 30, 2005
Eldredge's immense popularity, must not be allowed to disguise the fact that his suggestions are often incongruent with the teachings of Jesus. Although the author's premise may be valid (men are bored with contemporary church life; change must be made in an effort to address this problem), his corollary ideas are both untrue and harmful.


LEAP HR: Life Sciences is your chance to discover the breakthrough thinking and disruptive people strategies behind the life sciences industry's most radical HR leaps.
Regardless of the size or state of your life sciences organization this is your opportunity to challenge traditional thinking around what it takes to ensure their bio pharma businesses are first and fast in a hyper-dynamic, ultra-competitive world.
Take a look at the interactive event guide from the 2019 event to see why this is an event you won't want to miss.
Have a look at the event reviews here.
"Great energy, great exchanges. It was extremely valuable to learn about what others are doing in Life Sciences HR. What's working? What's not? And how can we be more courageous and more innovative in HR?"


Trail away into the clouds.
My ears hear colors and my eyes see sounds.
While fleets of children rush up to greet me.
So I can use it to scribe and read on.
Into rainbow waterfalls where they all shower.
I'm just hallucinating or simply dreaming.
Their hypnotic perfume calms my heart and spirit.
But I can barely hear it.
And I can feel it and clearly see them.
Gleam seductively from its sleeves.
Isn't the lamb afraid the lion will tear it?
To make sure he was not part of my mind's invention.
And through his, I see my own reflection.
And that was our simple introduction.
And the galaxy looks like it's swallowing little Earth.
He replied, "Nothing in the universe stops rotating around each other.
Then Jupiter and Earth are the most active talkers.
To ask him where we are.
To go under the tree to sleep.
Had sedated me like a wizard's ruby.
I was back to being alone, as there was no longer anyone beside me.
But an eagle was waiting for me on the ledge of my balcony.
And keep spreading your words like seeds of gold.
And disappeared from the view of my window.
To watch it chase after its own echoes.


The other day, I was telling my therapist that I had learned I was more resilient than I thought I was. She said, "Not just resilient but powerful." And that stopped me dead. All the images of what I viewed as powerful went through my head: Mel Gibson as Braveheart, The Rock smashing his way to victory in whatever movie he was in, armies rolling over their enemies, rich people shaping the rules to suit them because they can. You get the point. And no, I did not fit any of my ideas of "powerful". I felt weak from not being able to exercise for the past five years. I felt powerless because my life had been derailed by medical trauma and illness. So, saying I felt powerful just felt silly.
But then, when I bulked, she started listing some of the things I had accomplished and I had an "aha" moment. I realized that my idea of being powerful had come from the masculine world, ideas shaped by the way we've been taught history (a retelling of battles and wars with emphasis on the victor) media and our entertainment industry. But being powerful isn't always about physical strength, fighting, conquering, or pushing through the pain, is it?
Some traits of feminine energy are: softening, nurturing, allowing, empathy, and "being" instead of "doing". Can you see how these feminine aspects are important tools for healing a nervous system disorder?
I'd learned healing isn't about asserting your will over your body, fighting it or trying to force it into submission. It's about surrendering without giving up, turning empathy inward, staying open, being present, receiving and letting go.
After the outside world of western medicine failed me, what finally helped me begin to heal was spending time in meditation, opening my heart and receiving guidance from my intuition. This is inner wisdom we all have access to, but we have to sit still long enough to receive it.
I learned how to stop my thoughts when they tried to drag me back to the ICU, to the pain, to the losses, anchoring them to the present moment, not by force, but with lovingkindness toward myself.
During a time when my days were full of never-ending physical pain, crushing fatigue, loss, anxiety and grief, I learned how to choose love over fear. I salvaged peace from the wreckage. Peace that came from sitting down on the battlefield and tilting my face to the sun with a smile.
Maybe powerful is the wrong word, because the association with physically overpowering or conquering something is strong. Maybe a better word is empowered. I feel empowered.
What about you? Can you say you feel empowered by what you've been through?
I haven't been to this site for a bit and I apologize for that. As we've discussed before, I survived a horrific accident where I was forced off a bridge and broke my back which is now in even worse condition. In addition, I have multiple health issues including fibromyalgia and a movement disorder which is a recent diagnosis. And to top that, I have literally beaten death three times! So, I totally understand where you're coming from and I love the word empowered. I have had people tell me that they admire me for beating the odds. I tend to brush off any compliments I receive but reading your post I can seen that maybe I should change how I think of myself. 🙂 I do keep a positive attitude and think of the things I CAN do rather than what I CANNOT do.
I was also unable to exercise for many years. My main exercise now is to walk back and forth in a swimming pool in chest deep water. Of course, I can only do that when it's warm/hot outside so I also ride a stationary bicycle and do stretching exercises.
Oops! I hit enter by mistake. I wanted to wish you a wonderful day. Hope you are blessed with love, happiness, and friendship.


The Oklahoma State Legislature has failed to pass proposed bans on texting while driving, for the fifth year in a row. This year HB 2540 was authored in the House of Representatives and SB 442 was proposed in the State Senate, both bills were killed this session. Opponents of the legislation contend that the bills are not necessary, and that they are too specific to address the issue of distracted driving.
It is estimated that last year alone that more than 700 Oklahomans were injured and approximately 10 were killed in accidents involving distracted driving. 43 other states have now banned texting while driving.
While many of the lawmakers supporting these bills are admittedly frustrated, they have pledged to keep raising the dangers of distracted driving until the law is changed.


Look how cute you two are!! And Edward standing on the box...great pose, buddy!
Happy Monday, Lily and Edward. I hope you get some good treats out of that Chewy box!
That is a mighty big box from Chewy there Edward. Hope it is full of goodies. Have a marvellous Monday.
Hmmm Edward, looking good on top of the chewy box. Playing King of the box?
Yummy things come in Chewy boxes!!!
YUMMY!! WHAT DID YOU GET?
WooHoo!!!! What did you all get???? We just adore Chewy's stuff!!
Edward, looks like you're KING OF THE ... um, Chewy???
Edward... you will share, right?
Edward that was the best place you could pick for a photo. And I wish I would get a parcel once what is so big that I can stand on it. Have a super Monday!
King of the box LOL.
My boys just got a package from them too!
WHAT??? You haven't RIPPED it Open YET??? Get Crackin.
Oh my Dog, that is a BIG box!
Open Open Open, lets se all the good stuff you got.
Enjoy everything and Have a perfect Monday.
AND you KNOW Chewy.com sends such good stuff!
Lily, you let Edward take front and center? I thought that was your soap box!
Have you taken charge of the box Edward. Maybe you should give Lily some since she let you live with her.
Oooooooo, remember it's what's IN the box that counts....as well as what's ON the box.
What did you get? We want to know.
Edward, you are supposed to open the box, not elevate yourself.
Good thinking, Edward, guarding the box. I hope it had good stuff in it!
Now that's something we haven't tried yet! Good job, Edward!
Now that pic would make a great advertisement for Chewy.com!!!
Wow, that's a perfect way to be on top of things! BOL Hope you got lots of goodies in that box.
Make sure you open the box to get the noms inside.
I love climbing on the Chewy box, too, Edward!
I bet that box is filled with lots of goodies for you both!
It is nutty. It's bigger than you, Edward!
You's king of da box!
King of da box, king of da world!
I like the sound of what's written on that box!
Lily and Edward are you playing an April Fool's joke on us my not posting your beautiful FBD faces today?
You KNOW good things are in that box!
We are just now getting out to Blogville after our vacation.
It is time for US to get some chewy box!!! YES it is!!
We love Chewy!! We are going to blog about what we got for March... if our LAZY Mom will ever type the darn thing!
Hope there's some super yummy stuff in that box!!
Oooh! A box! I love boxes!


What type of building regulations application do I need?
If you wish to have your plans checked and approved before the work starts, to avoid any costly errors and corrective work on site by not being fully up to speed with the ever changing regulations, we recommend you apply using the Full Plans form.
An building regulations application deposited under this procedure needs to contain plans and other information showing all construction details, preferably well in advance of when work is to start on site.
Your local authority will check your plans and consult any appropriate authorities.
If your plans comply with the building regulations you will receive a notice stating that they have been approved. If your local authority is not satisfied you may be asked to make amendments or provide more details. Alternatively, a conditional approval may be issued. This will either specify modifications which must be made to the plans; or will specify further plans which must be deposited with your authority.
If the work is uncomplicated and you are happy that you or your builder has a reasonably good understanding of the building regulations, then you can use a Building Notice form. The advantage of the building notice procedure is that detailed drawings are not formally required for approval, although some details such as structural calculations may be required. You may start work 48 hours after your notice has been received by the local authority.
Plans are not required with this process so it's quicker and less detailed than the full plans application. It is designed to enable some types of building work to get under way quickly; although it is perhaps best suited to small or basic work.
A 'building notice' is valid for three years from the date the notice was given to the local authority, after which it will automatically lapse if the building work has not commenced.
If the work has already recently started or possibly even been completed without proper consent, then a retrospective application can be made using a Regularisation form.
You can even use this if the work was carried out by a former owner. Any work can potentially be regularised as long as it was carried out after the 11 November 1985.
The purpose of the process is to regularise the unauthorised works and obtain a certificate of regularisation. Depending on the circumstances, exposure, removal and/or rectification of works may be necessary to establish compliance with the building regulations.
It's best to contact your local authority building control team to discuss your individual circumstances before submitting a building control regularisation application.
Visit the Planning Portal to apply for building control approval.
How does the building control approval process work?
Are you a self builder or planning on making improvements to a property? Follow these five steps to building regulations approval and getting that all important completion certificate.
For an application by Building Notice, there are no detailed plans to inspect and approve so you can start work as soon as the notice is accepted - usually within 48 hours.