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Green on Blue: causes and responses (merged thread)
Thread: Green on Blue: causes and responses (merged thread)
I've looked through the threads here and cannot readily identify a suitable thread on this difficult issue. IIRC the issue of Iraqis attacking Allied forces did crop up elsewhere, although more about betrayals enabling ambushes, not Iraqis killing partners.
There have numerous deaths due to some ANSF killing their allies and partners. It certainly has happened in Helmand of late, IIRC involving teams embedded with the ANSF and recently an Afghan air force pilot killed American trainers.
hat tip to the Lowry Institute's mailing. I was not aware that the Australians have suffered:
There's been another incident overnight in Afghanistan involving Australian soldiers being attacked by an Afghan National Army colleague. This is the third time this year that Australian soldiers have been attacked in this manner, and comes only a week after seven soldiers were seriously wounded and three killed by a 'rogue' Afghan soldier.
There are three possible explanations for these attacks, but it is certainly too early to conclude what has motivated them. The first explanation is that all three are unrelated, coincidental acts of violence by mentally disturbed Afghan soldiers. This explanation is the hardest to accept — it's bewildering for the public and media that a string of deaths could be, essentially, random.
The second explanation is that this is a Taliban campaign to erode the will of Australian soldiers and the public back home, and force an early exit of Australian forces from Uruzgan. This possibility cannot be ruled out. The Taliban's propaganda machine somewhat amateurishly claimed a hand in motivating Shafiea Ullah, yet has claimed neither of the two recent attacks.
The third possibility is that there is something in the particular relationship between Australian mentors and Afghan trainees which is heightening tensions and leading to violent disagreements. Certainly the relationship in certain bases is tense — last week Afghan soldiers in the 6th Kandak were temporarily disarmed — but again there is no proof that the relationship between Afghan and Australian mentors is fundamentally worse than that with other ISAF mentoring teams.
Link:http://www.lowyinterpreter.org/post/...lanations.aspx
That post led to a riposte and I have slightly edited the passages:
Secondly, it is too simplistic to say that (a) it can't be random or that (b) the Taliban are masterminding this. Morale in the ANA is low. Morale in the Taliban is low. Morale in the ANP is low. No one feels safe, no one feels assured in Afghanistan....Working with the coalition provides some level of comfort and support, but it also presents genuine safety risks.
I believe the most likely cause of this is related to the inherent nature of Afghan society. For Afghans, when they face stresses and problems of life, drugs and lethal violence are two very popular choices to remedy the situation. ....As an example, when I was in Afghanistan, the local police chief expressed his concerns about the growing use of RPGs during wedding celebrations. This is a society very different to ours...
...based on my experience, there is every chance this just depressed Afghans dealing with a problem the only way they know how. Their life is short, they play hard.
Link:http://www.lowyinterpreter.org/post/...ghanistan.aspx
See also the 12 May 2011 paper, A Crisis of Trust and Cultural Incompatibility: A Red Team Study of Mutual Perceptions of ANSF Personnel and U.S. Soldiers in Understanding and Mitigating the Phenomena of ANSF-Committed Fratricide-Murders
This N2KL Red Team study has four primary purposes:
1. Inform key decision-makers that the murders of ISAF members committed by ANSF personnel do not represent "rare and isolated events" as currently being proclaimed.
2. Explore why this tragic phenomenon is occurring by extensively canvassing ANSF members on their perceptions of U.S. Soldiers and identifying what behaviors, characteristics and/or situations provoke them towards anger and possible violence.
3. Examine U.S. Soldiers experiences with ANSF personnel and what perceptions they have.
4. Based on both ANSF members' and U.S. Soldiers' perceptions develop recommendations to counter the growing fratricide-murder threat ANSF personnel pose to ISAF soldiers.
Afghan police kill two UK servicemen in Helmand province
That was the BBC News headline and:
The men, who were serving as part of an advisory team, were killed on Saturday as they provided security for a meeting with local officials near Patrol Base Attal....near a base in the Lashkar Gah district of Helmand province....
The London-based Defence Correspondent adds:
The rise in "green-on-blue" killings, now averaging one a week this year, is having an impact on trust in a relationship which is key for Nato's exit strategy. Nato says the attack on Saturday is the 16th incident this year in which Afghan soldiers or police - or insurgents wearing military uniforms - have turned their weapons on foreign troops, bringing the death toll from such attacks to 22 so far this year. That toll is higher than at the same time last year...
Link:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-18047242
Personally I think the impact is growing at home as it challenges the official narrative of a handover to Afghans akin to "people who kill us and you want us to stay longer?"
Denver on occasion
The paper Jed cited is excellent. This problem is not going away and as David suggested it may the thing that drives us from Afghanistan sooner rather than later. The paper states that these killings occur mostly because the Afghans murderers are simply angry with the behavior of the ISAF. These are not Taliban agents doing the killing.
Another thing I read is the figures released by the ISAF severely understate the problem because they only report the deaths (I forget about wounded). They don't report the unsuccessful attempts where the would be killers miss or are killed before they can do the deed.
"We fight, get beat, rise, and fight again." Gen. Nathanael Greene
A symptom?
This quote comes to mind:
"We don't have twelve years experience in Vietnam. We have one year's experience twelve times over." - John Paul Vann
'Cultural incompatibility'?
No I don't believe so... more like the ISAF forces are not committed to the theatre long enough to understand the cultural dynamics of the area.
Because they are there for a short tour there is no incentive for ISAF troops down to troopie level to make the effort to learn and understand the people and their languages.
This short termism as displayed by cultural arrogance is welcomed by the Taliban, sullenly tolerated by the locals... and understandably met with seething anger by Afghans - police and army - who find themselves on the same side as the ISAF forces who treat them with disrespect and disdain.
I mentioned it before somewhere that the mentoring is in the wrong direction. On arrival in theatre fresh units should (in the obvious absence of own forces with the prerequisite experience) receive Afghan mentors to not only guide them culturally but to teach them how the Taliban thinks and acts so that the Taliban can effectively be found, fixed and then killed.
Without the cultural understanding - which includes knowing the enemy - ISAF forces are literally operating in a bubble. Not a smart approach by guys who believe they are smart.
Originally Posted by JMA
That is a very good idea. Select individuals could sort of embed into a unit and stay with them throughout their deployment. When I was in Africa our drivers fulfilled the same kind of role. You listened to the drivers if you knew what was good for you and we would have been completely lost without them.
Guys who believe they are smart and don't often doubt that, aren't. Our powers that be never doubt that they are smart.
Originally Posted by carl
Our guys are not being attacked by various members of GIROA because they do not understand Afghanistan (though certainly it is true that in general we do not understand much of that place and the people who live there).
Our guys are being attacked because they represent the forces dedicated to the continued exclusion of the significant populace group that was excluded from full participation in Afghan society when we acted to elevate and sustain the Northern Alliance into power and drive the Taliban into exile.
These attacks are a metric of the unsustainable nature of our strategic approach to Afghanistan, not a metric of our lack of cultural awareness at the tactical level.
Consider this current article:
Arizona Daily Star (Tucson) (azstarnet.com) May 14, 2012
Exclusive: Moderate Taliban Speaks Of Divisions By Associated Press
One of the most powerful men on the Taliban council, Agha Jan Motasim, nearly lost his life in a hail of bullets for advocating a negotiated settlement that would bring a broad-based government to his beleaguered homeland of Afghanistan.
In an exclusive and rare interview by a member of the so-called Quetta Shura, Motasim told The Associated Press Sunday that a majority of Taliban wants a peace settlement and that there are only "a few" hard-liners in the movement.
"There are two kinds of Taliban. The one type of Taliban who believes that the foreigners want to solve the problem but there is another group and they don't believe, and they are thinking that the foreigners only want to fight," he said by telephone. "I can tell you, though, that the majority of the Taliban and the Taliban leadership want a broad-based government for all Afghan people and an Islamic system like other Islamic countries."
But Motasim chastised the West, singling out the United States and Britain, for failing to bolster the moderates within the fundamentalist Islamic movement by refusing to recognize the Taliban as a political identity and backtracking on promises--all of which he said strengthens the hard-liners and weakens moderates like himself.
He lamented Sunday's assassination in Kabul of Arsala Rahmani, a member of the Afghan government-appointed peace council who was active in trying to set up formal talks with insurgents. Rahmani served as deputy minister of higher education in the former Taliban regime but later reconciled with the current Afghan government.
"He was a nationalist. We respected him," Motasim said.
Motasim used his own stature to press for talks nearly three years before the United States began making overtures to the Taliban in late 2010. At the time, he was also chief of the Taliban political committee, a powerful position that he held until he was shot last August. He is still a member of the Taliban leadership council, the Quetta Shura, named after the Pakistani city of the same name.
His voice softened and he paused often as he reflected on the brutal shooting in the port city of Karachi, Pakistan, where he lived, while moving regularly in Afghanistan and Pakistan in areas that he refused to identify.
Several bullets shattered his body and he was hospitalized for many weeks. In the first days after the shooting, he wasn't expected to survive.
The AP spoke to Motasim from Turkey where he had gone for additional treatment. When speaking of his attackers, he referred to them as brothers and colleagues, saying they may have been Taliban hard-liners who opposed his moderate positions.
"My idea was I wanted a broad-based government, all political parties together and maybe some hard-liners among the Taliban in Afghanistan and in Pakistan didn't like to hear this and so they attacked me," he said. Some of the gunmen may have come from Afghanistan and some may have been from Pakistan's North Waziristan where militant groups have found sanctuary, Motasim said.
In the early minutes of the telephone conversation, Motasim was reluctant to talk politics, saying he had been told by his friends and colleagues to stay silent.
"I am not involved in any talks. I am only here for my treatment," he said.
But he gradually opened up, saying the Taliban have three main demands: They want all Afghan prisoners released from U.S.-run detention facilities at Guantanamo Bay and near Bagram Air Field north of the Afghan capital; the names of all Taliban currently on the United Nations sanctions blacklist removed; and recognition of the Taliban as a political party.
He said talks in Qatar ended earlier this year after the United States reneged on a promise to release five prisoners from Guantanamo Bay. "But those are just the famous ones," he said. "There are thousands more being held in Bagram and they are being held under the name of Taliban but they are innocent people, farmers and clerics."
The prisoner exchange issue is rife with sensitivity as the United States has sought to exchange American Army Sgt. Bowe Bergdahl, captured by the Taliban in 2009, for Afghan Taliban held in Guantanamo. It appears the prisoner exchange fell through after the Afghan authorities demanded the five prisoners be repatriated to Afghanistan, according to an Afghan official who asked not to be named because he was not authorized to brief the media. The five prisoners have demanded they be allowed to go to Qatar with their families.
Motasim said he wasn't told why the prisoners were not released but when they weren't the hard-liners among the Taliban took it as a sign that the United States was disingenuous, said Motasim, who acknowledged that the Taliban have set up an office in Qatar.
He said the office has no official recognition as a political headquarters of the Taliban, rather it has been veiled in secrecy and the American interlocutors are engaging with them as insurgents not political representatives of at least some Afghans. Motasim said most of the Taliban who were negotiating with the Americans are on the U.N. sanctions list.
The U.N. Security Council imposed sanctions against the Taliban in November 1999 for refusing to send Osama bin Laden to the United States or a third country for trial on terrorism charges in connection with the bombings of the U.S. embassies in Kenya and Tanzania in 1998. The sanctions--a travel ban, arms embargo and assets freeze--were later extended to al-Qaida. In July 2005, the council extended the sanctions again to cover affiliates and splinter groups of al-Qaida and the Taliban.
"They (the U.S.) have to give political independence to the Taliban," he said.
Looking ahead to next week's NATO summit in Chicago, Motasim said he had a message for participants.
"The decisions of NATO should be for the good of Afghanistan and should not call for more violence. It should call for an end to the fighting, an end to the raids and killings," he said. "Afghanistan is destroyed, the people are displaced, refugees, poor people are dying in their homes and also foreigners are dying here. It should end."
Last edited by davidbfpo; 05-14-2012 at 06:04 PM. Reason: Citation in quotes
Robert C. Jones
Intellectus Supra Scientia
(Understanding is more important than Knowledge)
"The modern COIN mindset is when one arrogantly goes to some foreign land and attempts to make those who live there a lesser version of one's self. The FID mindset is when one humbly goes to some foreign land and seeks first to understand, and then to help in some small way for those who live there to be the best version of their own self." Colonel Robert C. Jones, US Army Special Forces (Retired)
You are wrong. At least according to the report cited by Jed you are wrong. Besides your contention just doesn't make sense. It doesn't make sense that a Tajik or Uzbek or anti-Taliban Pashtun shoots an American soldier because of intellectual dissatisfaction with the current constitution. It makes much more sense that they murder because they are angered by they and theirs being dissed in way after way year after year.
The article you cited didn't mention ANSF murdering ISAF. Nor did it mention that perhaps the Pak Army/ISI might oppose a settlement that cuts them out, making it dangerous for anybody who sought to do so.
Last edited by carl; 05-14-2012 at 05:21 PM.
North Mountain, West Virginia
It's because Afghans live there and everone else is an outsider. It's the same way people in Mississippi felt about soldiers and administrators from Massachusetts circa 1865.
Originally Posted by Pete
I don't see how that fits ANSF killing ISAF. And this is a problem that seems to be worsening as the years go by, not staying the same.
Saw some footage on Afghan training by the Brits the other night on TV news (in the wake of the latest killings).
After all these years in training people from other countries/cultures/races they have forgotten the simple method... and that is to train the trainers.
Watching some young Brit NCO trying to teach Afghans to shoot through sign language was at the same time hilarious and pathetic. Could not adopt the prone position properly, were not holding the weapon properly in the aim and could see shots striking the ground in front of the target at 25m.
Can't teach the shooting fundamentals of holding, aiming, breathing, squeezing by sign language. Who is kidding who.
Anyone listening out there? Train the - Afghan - trainers first.
Then... been on about this before. Brit troops (and probably the yanks too) should have in theatre 'battle camp' training before deploying operationally. This allows for acclimatisation and should cover 'know your enemy', local culture, locally developed and theatre specific minor tactics, advanced medical training for all, locally specific fieldcraft exercises and the like. Yes by now - ten years on - they should have identified and trained up suitable Afghans to assist with this preparation process and later mentoring on deployment. It is a damning indictment that they have not.
Clearly very little to be gained by sending a battalion to Kenya to prepare for an Afghan tour under battalion officers and NCOs (who know less about the Afghan situation). If they can be away from home for a month in Kenya then they can rather add that extra month on the front end of their Afghan tour?
Sadly although the Brits aimed at redeeming themselves in Afghanistan after the Basra debacle all they have really achieved is to slide deeper into the hole. Very sad.
Last edited by JMA; 05-15-2012 at 07:06 AM.
There two very different, but very powerful forces of insurgency at work in Afghanistan. The first force is the revolutionary energy between the two broad camps of those who associate with "the Taliban" and those who associate with the "Northern Alliance." All we did was tip the balance of power, not resolve the "all in or all out" nature of Afghan patronage that goes along with being on the team in power. Bonn in 2002 was a well-intended disaster. The Constitution of 2003 likewise. Same with the Election of 2004. At that point it was game on for the revolutionary insurgency to grow as all legal options to compete had been effectively denied by well-intended Western Diplomats and Politicians who could not fully appreciate that the very processes and tools that we see as platforms of democracy in the West, where controlled by the populace, become platforms of oppression when controlled by a small group of men dedicated to sustaining a monopoly of power and influence.
The second source our insurgent power in Afghanistan is that of Resistance. It is human nature to resist when one feels that some inappropriate ("illegitimate") influence is shaping ones life though the shaping of the governance over them. Legitimate government can grow illegitimate over time as a populace evolves and a government grows static (consider the US experience and the growth of discontent with British governance), or this can happen all at once following an invasion when the invader stays and begins to shape government to what it sees as appropriate. Sending in more and more security forces (and development forces, etc, etc) can kill/buy ones way to a temporary suppression of the problem at great cost, but drives the roots of the problem deeper into the soil of the affected society at the same time.
As the strength of the political revolution grew following our manipulations of Afghan governance, our response was to send in ever increasing effort to stem the same; thereby feeding an expanding resistance across the largely apolitical populaces of Afghanistan forced into contact with ISAF and Northern Alliance security forces.
Who knows how many of the ANSF have deep-seated grievances, of family members and friends killed by ISAF, homes destroyed, fortunes and influence lost through shifts of patronage caused by our actions, or just patriotic deep-felt resentment over having such a massive, overt external presence dominating their country for so long??
Revolution and Resistance. Its that simple and that complex all at once. We dedicate ourselves to control an outcome that is not ours to control, and throughout the history of mankind this is the inevitable result. Good intentions may ease the conscience on the home front, but does little to mitigate the effect on the other end among the populaces affected by this situation.
Originally Posted by Bob's World
This suggests to me that you may not have read the report. It was done in an attempt to understand why ANSF, who are probably inclined at least a little to be anti-Taliban, are murdering ISAF. The finding is that the murders are probably motivated by the personal and not the political. Have you read the report?
Did you read my response? Half the causation I listed is "personal."
I find most "reports" are highly biased, and that typically are written by people with little understanding of the fundamental nature of insurgency. I offer you a rationale based in a broad understanding of insurgency and my own personal experience, education and training. The facts of each of these attacks are unique. Some may well have been a deeply personal attack to avenge some real or perceived matter of honor; most appear to be against symbols of ISAF in general.
In reading the report in post #2 above, I find the report to actually be quite consistent with my understanding of the situation and consistent with my posts above as well. A mix of resistance insurgency and personal honor, much as I suspected.
Last edited by Bob's World; 05-15-2012 at 02:59 PM.
Whilst the this thread's topic is "green on blue" as one observer remarked I do wonder how many ANSF on ANSF deaths or violent incidents there have been?
Given the multi-ethnic composition of the ANSF, surely some of the causation we have all remarked upon applies within too.
I have checked two of my books on the Imperial era on the North-West Frontier, for the experience of the British officered 'Scouts' and found a 1985 review by the late General William Jackson of 'The Frontier Scouts' (my standard text on the Scouts).
Mutual respect and trust...They were all poachers turned gamekeepers: Pathans recruited to keep the peace amongst Pathans....the Pathan's loyalty transcended his tribal affiliations. But loyalty between different races and creeds rests upon the knife edge of suspicion... (there were) so few defections and mutinies occurred in the ruthless atmosphere of the frontier.
Yes I did read your response. The acknowledgment of personal reasons for the murders was half of a sentence in the fourth paragraph after two long paragraphs and one short one explicating the broad political situation in Afghanistan as you see it, followed by a fifth paragraph continuing the explication of the big picture. So it was hard to tell if you gave the personal reasons much importance.
True enough that reports are biased, but the so are opinions of the reports. i got a different take out of it than you did. These are personal beefs, with the individual behavior or perceived group offenses against cultural norms and against things like errant air strikes. There isn't much politics behind the murders at least in the sense that you seem to mean. ANSF guys get mad because of the way the ISAF and people in the ISAF act, not because the ISAF is there or because they are dissatisfied that Mullah Omar isn't leading a block of representatives in the government. That makes more sense to me in that murders that aren't committed in the course of other crimes are generally done because the killers has been personally offended by something and big picture politics aren't generally one of those somethings, or so I've read.
I guess you did read the report.
In 2012 1 in 4 UK deaths from Afghan allies
A slightly different lethal report:
Three British soldiers have been killed in Afghanistan by a local policeman following an argument...The soldiers were serving in an Afghan Police Advisory Team and had been to the check point to conduct a shura (meeting). On leaving, they were engaged by small arms fire by a man wearing an Afghan Police uniform.
What I noted was that the policeman was:
a member of the Afghan Civil Order Police, whose members have a reputation for having better training and greater discipline than the notorious national police.
Now for the fact the politicians will not like, with my emphasis:
the deaths mean that a quarter of all British fatalities this year have been caused by Afghans soldiers with seven murdered at the hands of allies.
Link:http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...-argument.html
From the BBC report:
More than 20 foreign personnel have been killed in so-called rogue shootings in Afghanistan this year.
I don't recall this incident, maybe as it shows an ISAF on ANSF incident:
The shooting of 16 Afghans by a US soldier in March has also created resentment.
Last edited by davidbfpo; 07-02-2012 at 10:04 AM.
Drip, drip
This week in Helmand more 'green on blue':
Three US Marines were killed by an Afghan policeman early on Friday morning after inviting them to a Ramadan breakfast to discuss security. A few hours later, a further three US Marines were later shot dead by an Afghan civilian employee at a Nato base in Garmsir.
There have been 26 "Green on Blue" attacks on foreign troops by members of the Afghan security forces since January in which 34 people have been killed. Last year, there were 21 attacks in which 35 people were killed.
Within an article on other matters:http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...-in-weeks.html
TheCurmudgeon
Green-on Blue - Is our cultural ignorance killing us ... literally
Don't know if this has been covered before, but on a long plane ride back from Europe I was thinking about green-on-blue attacks and how many of these attacks appear to be personal retribution. A recent quote from a Marine (those guys are pretty clever) says it best.
Terry Walker, a former Marine trainer in Helmand Province, told Fox News that most of these incidents are due to personal and cultural conflicts. He said Afghans simply have a different way of dealing with their problems.
"You have a strong influence that's tribal," Walker said. "Afghans can't be insulted and they have no conflict resolution capability. The smallest thing can set them off."
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012...#ixzz23uK9VjYd
This reminded me of the problems we had in Iraq understanding why their supply systems did not work the way we expected them to. It was because their tribal culture, built on respect for those above them, did not allow underlings to make decisions on their own and that everything had to be cleared.
Curious if our lack of understanding of the intricacies of tribal culture, particularly their need to maintain face in front of the other members of their tribe and their "inferiors" is killing us? If so, what are we doing about it?
Was looking for others thoughts on the matter. I apologize if the topic has already been covered.
"I can change almost anything ... but I can't change human nature."
Jon Osterman/Dr. Manhattan
ganulv
Berkshire County, Mass.
You might be interested in reading this one.
If you don't read the newspaper, you are uninformed; if you do read the newspaper, you are misinformed. – Mark Twain (attributed)
Quick Navigation OEF - Afghanistan Top
afghanistan, ana, anp, ansf, culture green-on-blue


Being the governing body of the sport in Ireland, the Volleyball Association of Ireland makes, maintains, and enforces the rules of the sport in the country. Among its many duties, the association educates and informs people about issues in volleyball; and imposes effective sanctions on persons within the sport who commit offences. Moreover, the association also developments and implements, in consultation with the Irish Sports Council and the FIVB, education and information programs for members, coaches, officials, and medical and health practitioners and any person involved in volleyball in the Republic of Ireland.


text:
<?php
/**
 * Consumer Context represents a set of message streams that can be attached
 * some behaviour collectively. This is mainly for the purpose of implementing
 * the distributed rebalance algorithm
 *
 * @author    Michal Harish <michal.harish@gmail.com>
 * @license   http://www.apache.org/licenses/LICENSE-2.0 Apache License, Version 2.0
 * @date 20/02/2013
 */

namespace Kafka;

class ConsumerContext implements \Iterator {

    private $streams = array();

    public function __destruct() {
        $this->close();
    }

    public function assignStreams(array $streams) {
        $this->streams = $streams;
    }

    public function close() {
        foreach($this->streams as $stream) {
            try {
                $stream->close();
            } catch (Exception $e) {
                //TODO enable some kind of logging
            }
        }
        $this->streams = array();
    }

    public function current () {
        return current($this->streams);
    }

    public function key () {
        return key($this->streams);
    }

    public function next () {
        return next($this->streams);
    }

    public function rewind () {
        return reset($this->streams);
    }

    public function valid () {
        return isset($this->streams[key($this->streams)]);
    }

}

redpajama_set_name: RedPajamaGithub


Washington, D.C., December 9, 2014 – Last month, the Federal Laboratory Consortium for Technology Transfer (FLC), a nationwide network of federal laboratories that cultivates best-practice strategies for advancing technology transfer (T2) from the laboratory to the marketplace, announced the launch of FLCBusiness, an interactive business resource tool. The tool is an all-inclusive search database that shares information about funding, equipment, know-how, and resources available from the federal lab network for private and public utilization.
In a 2011 presidential memorandum, Accelerating Technology Transfer and Commercialization of Federal Research in Support of High-Growth Businesses, President Obama emphasizes the importance of facilitating tech transfer and commercialization through regional public-private partnerships. The effort continues as part of the Lab-to-Market Cross-Agency Priority Goal. This emphasis illustrates the importance of T2 in maintaining the competitive edge of U.S. private industry by leveraging federal resources.
A key component of this strategy, FLCBusiness delivers an interactive tool to help U.S. industry understand the capabilities and availability of resources at federal laboratories and the many potential partnership opportunities.


text:
Should Speaker Boehner sue President Obama?
Heated wins from last night's primaries, what does this mean for the 2014 midterm landscape?
Also, a day after former President Bill Clinton defended his wife against wealth attacks, Hillary Clinton said in an interview what while she is appreciative for the defense, she thinks her record "speak for itself."
Lastly, House Speaker John Boehner told reporters that he plans to sue President Barack Obama over his use of executive action.
At 6:30pm ET, S.E. Cupp and Van Jones host a debate with Democratic strategist Donna Brazile and Republican Strategist, Kevin Madden.
We want you to weigh in: Should Speaker Boehner sue President Obama over executive orders?
Filed under: 2014 Elections • 2016 • Bill Clinton • Donna Brazile • Executive order • Fireback • GOP • Hillary Clinton • In the Crossfire • John Boehner • Kevin Madden • Obama • Politics • S.E. Cupp • Tea Party • Van Jones
The president's jobs initiative is intended to address the high rate of unemployment among younger veterans. Boehner will sue.
Go right ahead Boehner, we dare you. Remember what happened to the House and the Senate after they, the repubs impeached Clinton? Do you remember repubs? That's right, the House and the Senate Both had Democrat majorities. So Boehner , go right ahead!!
Correct, republicans lost both the Senate and the House after the house impeached Clinton
Shawn McFadden
By the time Boehner actually committs to doing this. The President will already have left office. The better plan would have been to try to Impeach him, but that won't work either. However, if he wants to waste his money on such a futile endeavor, go right ahead.
We'll see you democrats and obama in court, the Supreme Court, every time obama shreds the Constitution and uses it for his canary cage. We are sick and tired of your whiney voices and excuses and obama, who clearly doesn't know what is going on, calls it a stunt or "without a smidgeon of evidence". He who laughs last lasts best and my face already hurts.
Jean Taylor
I'm with you Beth!
Okay... I've asked before without a reply so I'll ask again.
Here is a list of all of Obama's executive orders:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_federal_executive_orders_13489_and_above
Please tell me which one you believe is unconstitutional. I've searched through the list and find nothing that seems outside of the authority the president has to run the executive branch... but perhaps you have a different opinion.
hazerrazor
I guess if you have no real ideas for creating jobs or getting our economy back on track you would need something to divert attention away from the fact that your not doing anything useful for average Americans so this will do nicely!
Whose money is he going to sue the President with and to what end?
Boehner's head is shoved so far up his own a$$ that the lump in his throat is his nose.
If he doesn't stop getting high on the smell of his own colon he's going to wake up one day back swabbing daddy's bar
I would like to know where our tax dollars really go when these yahoos keep doing their best to investigate every move by President Obama? What makes this all so darn funny? President Obama has pulled this Nation up from the huge mess left by the last Administration, and with little help from a do nothing Congress, and Senate. This Country's voters have developed "Romnesia"! I really hope those folks who decided it wasn't important to vote in 2010. Get out there in droves, and vote these yahoos out of office ASAP! Then finish the job in 2016! Politicians like Cruz, Stockman, many other Tea Party members need to GO!
That whole crew in Congress has never shown President Obama any respect from day one! It's all about President Obama skin color. Boehner will have to answer one day for his hateful ways and so will the rest of the crew.
This isn't about skin color–Obama has no idea what he is doing–he was just a junior senator and a professor. All he wants to do is go fund raising and play golf. The democrats voted for him over a war hero and a person with experience. I hope he doesn't take our country down–I believe that is his intention. Neither he nor his wife care for this Country. Remember when they were pledging allegiance to the flag–Michelle mouthed, "All this for a flag!" By the time he leaves office, we'll all be up _____ creek!
jeffIndiana
Yes... after six years in office he has no idea what he is doing. You are ignorant as well as ridiculous.
Just for the record Obama has never been a professor. Never was never will be
Maria Rivera-Carvalho
But of course! What's another nail in the GOP's coffin?
Sure he should but he best come up with a reason.
Oh and it will be long after the current president is out of office.
Maybe he can say that the President makes him cry.
And hey anything to keep Congress from doing anything for the citizenry.
Kangave
Its gotten so bad that folks in congress always want to make headlines,now understandably,its election season and members of congress have to do what it takes to motivate their bases but suing the President in my opinion is a waste of time and tax payer dollars,my frustration also lies with the media,CNN,Fox news etc really do a very poor job in communicating a lot of the things that really matter,its always about ratings,who is down,who is up,they like to encourage what happens in Washington by yapping about stuff that really does not add any value for a lot of Americans,why is it that we never hear the Presidents accomplishments,or even what congress has accomplished for that matter,why is the news 100 % of the time,this gloomy picture like the world is coming to an end,journalists please do a better job on reporting progress and not just following scandals.The President has done a tremendous job under the circumstances,lets get this on the record with examples of what it is that is accomplished and what needs to be done and for the life of me,enough with Hillary Clinton and 2016 obsession ,lets focus on the issues at hand,cheers!
Norma Vessels
Well said. Our President has done so much for us, but nobody's hearing about it. We just take the good things for granted, and dwell way too long on the things that are wrong. President Obama can't fix everything, but he's done a whole lot of good that a Republican President wouldn't have even thought of doing.
If cnn does not report the good stuff O does then you know there are not any. The reason for all the doom and gloom is because of the corrupt pres. And his admin. Sorry if this does not feel good but we should not hide and ignore all the scandals because they make us feel bad. We need to be strong and brave and face these hard times with common sense and decency
Boehner sue obama reason the president tired of all republican always demand on him and want to make budget debit up.. president got him in his office order
English please
Boehner is an a$$ hole. If he wants to sue the POTUS, let HIM pay for it out of his pocket. Why should the US taxpayer be on the hook for this?
Tractingurg
The republicans are now going to sue Obama, I pointed and laughed when I heard that one. As far as Im concerned they can sue bush/cheney/and karl rove the three of thiem mess up this country so bad, and lied to the american people and still are. The republicans have caused tons of crap, refusing to work with obama, and congress is the worse ever in history. I think the american people should sue congress and the republicans for lack of there poor job on trying to work with Obama. They hate Obama and they have been doing this crap since he was first elected and still are as hateful as when he first became president. They are haters, and nasty, and I come from a republican family and never again will I vote republican ever again till republicans change there ways. The republican put our country in the worse situations of all times. ever. Thats what they did, and they refuse to admit it. and you still see cheney trying to improve himself lol, He is washed up so is his daughter and so are all the shrubs/Bushes THE END
His lawless use of the Executive Order are with good intentions. However, without revision they have ultimately been failures. EO failures to include: Amnesty at our borders, Obamacare revisions, emission reductions. After failures are exposed, plan B is blame republicans? This spineless leader NEEDS be sued.
V/R
Can we sue this congress for being the least productive congress ever? As an American, I want my president to do whatever is necessary to do what he can for the people, and if that involves strong arming some tea party colluding gop assholes then I am onboard.
I'm sorry but your ending gesture of "v/r America" is not the sentiment of every American. Whether i believe in this President or not, as a military person he is the Commander and Chief. I see there was never any talk of sueing either 1 of the Bush's nor Clinton. I am for the PEOPLE and not a particular party. And by the way......you do know that if this idiot does this, it is OUR tax dollars to pay for it
The republicans would do there jobs the pres. Would not haveto make appointments!!!!!!! The right always complain of out of control spending, yet they waste tax payer money on wastefull investigations on spupid things over and over again, yielding absolutely nothing.eg. 40 million to find out clinton got a blow job!!!! The right will spend no money to help the working people of this country who made this country so great, but they work real hard to give the wealty tax breaks. The trickle down effect does not work,the will not help the working class because of greed and arrogance. The think they built there company's,they played a big part by putting up the money. But they would not have succeded with the working class , THEY NEED TO REMEMER THAT AND REWARDTHEM!!!!!!!!!
Presidential executive orders have been utilized by presidents for many years. You can go research congressional library archives website and can verify. Be aware info may be a little tricky for some to access though. Presidents from both political parties utilized. I did find list of total orders for all presidents, and actually found Obama has used the least among all the presidents. And saw some presidents gave many. And that includes both political parties.
I can't really come re: an legal issues at this time, as no lawsuit has been approved so far, and haven't read attorney's legal brief to court. I did see some news reports that generally such litigation is futile, but can't verify.
It's not the amount of EO but the content.
common sense eludes liberals
If a president issues an executive order proclaiming a day in the name of a national hero that is one thing but to issue an executive order to skirt the Constitution that is another. In other words, one executive order by Obama can do more damage to America than all executive orders by Bush.
@common sense eludes liberals
"If a president issues an executive order proclaiming a day in the name of a national hero that is one thing but to issue an executive order to skirt the Constitution that is another. In other words, one executive order by Obama can do more damage to America than all executive orders by Bush."
Really, I beg to differ and by the way explain with specificity how exactly President Obama skirted the "Constitution", please site which law and what part of the "Constitution" was skirted by it.
How do you explain Former President Bush's executive orders regarding laws dealing with Homeland Security? Why did he have so many excutivie orders involving Homeland Security?
"Executive Order 13284
Amendment of Executive Orders, and Other Actions, in Connection With the Establishment of the Department of Homeland Security"
And if you want a copy of the Homeland Security Law its "Public Law 107-296" you can find it under the 107th Congress.
July 1, 2014 at 11:59 am |
GC @common sense eludes liberals
"Executive Order 13284 Amendment of Executive Orders, and Other Actions, in Connection With the Establishment of the Department of Homeland Security"
I defend President Bush order 13284 who had the approval of both parties in defense of an attack on our own country, however, get over Bush he has been gone for 6 1/2 years.
EXECUTIVE ORDER: #13535
July 1, 2014 at 2:51 pm |
Correction 6 1/2 should be 5 1/2, damn we still have 2 1/2 years of this administration.
RCCO
Boehner and the house republicans spend so much time attacking President Obama and precious little time doing the people's work. Now they want to spend my tax dollars on this simple minded tactic. USE MY TAXES TO GET MORE JOBS FOR PEOPLE!! THIS IS A WASTE OF TIME JUST LIKE VOTING TO APPEAL OBAMACARE 50 TIMES!
Apparently Obama's trampling of the constitution doesn't concern you! However the supreme court thinks otherwise, the president answers to Article II, Section 2, Clause 2 "the President 'shall nominate, and by and with the Advice and Consent of the Senate, shall appoint Ambassadors, other public Ministers and Consuls, Judges of the supreme Court, and all other Officers of the United States.'"
@Rob
"Apparently Obama's trampling of the constitution doesn't concern you! However the supreme court thinks otherwise, the president answers to Article II, Section 2, Clause 2 "the President 'shall nominate, and by and with the Advice and Consent of the Senate, shall appoint Ambassadors, other public Ministers and Consuls, Judges of the supreme Court, and all other Officers of the United States.'"
Constutition also says this – Article I Section 8 "To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of
the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof."
It seems members of Congress specifically the House has been trampling all over the Constitution. How many bills have they passed? Why haven't they been doing their jobs?
July 1, 2014 at 12:10 pm |
What is this people's work you speak of? please refrain from posting ill-advised, unintelligible comments.
If we get rid of Obama then Reid, we can move so e of the bills that Reid and o have been obstructing. We will also get jobs back and create new jobs that will never happen under current potus. He does not know how to create jobs just tax.
Madman25
The amount of idiots on here thinking the validity of the lawsuit depends on whether they like/dislike boehner is staggering... Shame on all of you. There was a time when all politicians regarded the constitution as fragile and in need of protecting. Now it seems the constitution needs protecting only when your party is on the other end of its infringement. Makes me sick to my stomach reading your posts. Most of you dimwits are liberals but I'll be the first to say republicans are guilty of this very same crime. The negative aspects to not having protections surrounding the constitution are not partisan but bipartisan. I hope all of you dem supporters get the chance to reap what you sew when a republican gets into office. First exec order will be to disband the democrat party and imprison their leaders for crimes against the state
Why are you so mad, man. I come from a family of 5 brothers and during Vietnam war all 5 of us were in the service at the same time. I strongly believe in the democratic process and will defend it until the day I die. The GOP party are acting like uneducated bigots. I don't want to play, wah,wah,wah. George Bush did this 100 times more than the President. So Mr President do what you have to do to pass laws that will keep our great Country running. As Harry Truman would say, give em hell.
The constitution gives congress the ability to pass laws and the president the abiltiy to execute them.
Laws have been passed to direct the president to do many things... the basis for agencies such as the FBI, CIA, State Department, EPA and others. While the laws didn't necessarily CREATE all the agencies, the duties those agencies perform are dictated by laws passed through congress.
Most congressional laws are somewhat generic. They say "The federal government shall do X". They rarely say HOW to do it or even specify an exact number. Often there is just a minimum (or a maximum). Sometimes there isn't even that.
Executive orders are how the president details how the laws will be executed. There is nothing illegal or unconstitutional about that. Congress has given the president the authority to enact sanctions on foriegn governments or countries. Obama signed 3 executive orders doing just that to the Ukraine and Russia. There's nothing unconstitutiional about that.
If Boehner can point to an executive order where the president is directing his agencies to do something that congress has NOT given him the authority to do (or the constitution doesn't allow him to do) they should take action. But I've read the executive orders Obama has signed this year. There have been 13. 5 of them have been sanctions on foreign governments. One reversed a prior executive order. One created a trade dispute board for a specific disagreement (something that happens frequently under all presidents). One changed qualifications for a military medal. One sligtly changed the name of a government agency. One created a sub-office of the department of state.
None of those is in any way contraversial.
That leaves you with:
EO 13659 Streamlining the Export/Import Process for America's Businesses – A pretty uncontraversial streamlining of application processes dealing with the import/export application procedure and computer systems backing that process up.
EO 13665 Non-Retaliation for Disclosure of Compensation Information – An order stating that due to laws that give employees protecting from compensation discrimination, employers cannot prevent employees from sharing that information (hard to tell if an employer is paying people differently based on race or religion if nobody is legally allowed to share what they make)
EO 13658 Establishing a Minimum Wage for Contractors – Congress already allows government agencies to set rules for contractors... for example we have some agencies that will ONLY buy from american suppliers as a matter of policy, not law. This EO simply adds another rule... the minimum wage for those contractors must be above a certain level. This doesn't break the minimum wage laws in place... because it's a minimum. The only way to break that is to go below it.
I can't see anything there (or in any of Obama's other EO's from prior years) that seems to in any way be "making law". It's simply changing rules or regulations that are already declared BY LAW to be within the purview of the executive branch.
Here's a list of Obama's executive orders. Please let me know which one is unconstitutional.
wait, are those facts? cause you know, the people who HATE, yes actually HATE the president, (which i don't even hate bush even tho he lied to us and got a bunch of people killed) they don't actually care about facts.. lol so good luck with that.. lol
June 28, 2014 at 2:00 am |
Finally! Somebody did their homework. Thank you!
June 28, 2014 at 1:30 pm |
You wish a republican would do what others accuse Obama of being......a dictator. I think Obama should be impeached for the executive orders in question because there is a good argument he has overstepped the boundaries of constitutional power. However, there are more than a few suspect executive orders that were never challenged by congress historically speaking. I recently saw a few sites regurgitating a lie that Obama has had over 900 executive orders to date and cite executive orders from Kennedy during the cold war and preparing infrastructure co-ordination leading up to and the aftermath of a thermonuclear war. These tea party sponsored sites obviously chose the titles carefully to froth up their base because they knew they wouldn't bother to check on facts....like the dates of the actual order and the president who was really involved. So, why sue him instead of impeachment? Isn't impeachment the tool of the constitution for congress to reign in this accused dictator? Why use this other slow tactic? Because....people will forget about it after mid term elections, it is much safer than going all in which is what impeachment requires......cowards.
So, Boehner and the Republicans in Congress feel they haven't piled enough indignities and ridicule onto their own party. Now they will try to set a new low in the annals of political insanity. I say, go for it.
Big word for such a half witted person. You must be one of those racist democrats
I'm guessing all the words are big ones for Madman25
Which "big word" child? Invest in a dictionary and open it once in a while. If Republicans did that, they wouldn't be acting like azzes all the time. Knowledge is power, that's why Obama rocks!
June 27, 2014 at 11:41 pm |
Sure, let the speaker sue the POTUS. Maybe he can cry while he does it.
Iamnotfooled
No-he should not use our tax payer money for being The Tea Party stooge. We should make a class action lawsuit against Boehner.
Tax dollars are already being used for DUI, DWI, murderers, rapist, pimps, prostitution,pedefiles. You name it. You have the right to an attorney. If you cannot afford an attorney one will be appointed to you. It's called "The Miranda Rights." Who pays for it? Tax payers
Well in that case you won't mind paying for President Obama too. Will you?
Obama has less than one half of the "executive orders" of Clinton or Reagan, and also fewer than George W.......but despite this fact, a lawsuit is in order, right?.......................looney tunes congress.....................
You understand 5 executive actions regarding contractor pension plans are not as significant as an executive action to not enforce duly enacted immigration laws passed by congress, right? I fail to see the validity of your "quantity over quality" argument. Your just repeating cnn and msnbc talking points.
What 5 executive actions is that? BTW quantity does matter. If they want to sue him for 32, what would they do if he had 250 and beat Reagan? They would lose their minds! On second thought maybe he should!
Which executive order do you find unconstitutional?
Here's a list: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_federal_executive_orders_13489_and_above
I'll give you a hint... there are no executive orders there about immigration at all. That supposed executive order is a figment of your imagination.
Why not sue the President. Boehner and the GOP have wasted the President's time blocking every jobs bill POTUS
has presented. Boehner and the GOP have deliberately blocked any bill that would put American's back to work and stimulate the economy. Why do they do this? To make political footsie with the right wing nuts in the tea party and keep Obama from looking good..
If the President is not following the laws in the United States then I feel there should be something done. We are a nation of laws and if the President doesn't go according to the laws then what example are we setting for the american people and all the other nations around the world. As President you should be upholding the laws of the constitution. Even if you don't agree with them.
He has. He has the Constitutional right behind him as Commander- in Chief. The Tea Party claim to be experts in the Constitution when in reality they are not. They have their own interpretations of it. Which is usually not the true meaning of the Amendment of the Constitution.
K - lite
Only if Boeher pay the bill out of his own pocket. If he loses he gets all the attorney fees.
I would rather my tax dollars go to a good cause such as preserving our laws, rather than giving money to arm rebels or unions for future favors
sendthistodave
The Supreme Court delivered a blow Thursday to President Obama, ruling that he went too far in making recess appointments to the National Labor Relations Board.
FNR Special Coverage: SCOTUS Recess Appointments Decision
More podcasts from Fox News Radio
In a unanimous decision, the high court sided with Senate Republicans and limited the president's power to fill high-level vacancies with temporary appointments.
quiktek
Actually they left the power of the Executive branch unchanged. What they ruled was the Senate could continue to bang the gavel every 3 days and pretend they are in session. Which is what the Dems will do to any GOP president if they lose the Senate.
Of course all of this is 100% moot since the Dem's in the Senate changed the rules allowing the president to appoint with a simple majority vote.
So little changed, so few understand.
The Supreme court voted to declare some of President Obama's appointments during Congress's recess, unconstitional because there are 5 Republicans against 4 Democrats on the Supreme court. There are no court justices that don't follow their party's line of reason. If there's a way to vote against the President, the Republican judges will. The only way our new Health Care passed was because of the vote by the Chief justice, for the new Health Care law. He must have had a dressing down from his wife or family, that saw the good in the new Health Care law. 🙂 I'm just so glad it happened, for the good of the people, for once in a long time.
Ol Bonehead can do whatever he likes, it just makes him and the repubs look more and more like the fools they are
Furious Styles
Which one is it? They say abide by the Constitution but what's Boehner doing now? The constitution already says no you can't do it. How much of a waste of time and a dead end for Bohener will this be? Bush had twice as many executive orders. Tell Boehner to go cry in a corner somewhere.
He deserves to be sued but should they – no. It will only work to his advantage if he is sued. CNN and the rest of the media will be running this deal all day long if they do while of course ignoring all the incompetence and utter mayhem he has created. Leave Obama to his own devices and work legislatively to correct major issues but that's it. Many people pointed out Obama's paper think C level experience from the start and what the result would be so let it happen. Its was always a train wreck waiting to happen. Sit back and watch.
JJO
Obama is the best and worst thing to happen to this country. The worst is that he has destroyed the economy, military, job market, middle class, foreign policy, stature in the world, healthcare, energy industry, immigration system and everything else he touches and it will take years to reverse this destruction. The most important and best is that he will have destroyed the Democratic Party for at least a decade. Thank you Barack "Commie" Obama.
Detkid
I agree with most of your comment and hurt for what he is doing to the US. However, I think Boehner should pursue the issue because the president is doing everything in his "power" to cause the republicans to impeach him (i.e. the latest over reach Bergdahl for terrorists) and I think suing him would not be able to be used against them. If he were a republican he definitely would have been impeached by now!
This Congress is useless. They don't stay around, they don't try to legislate, and all they think about is political advantage. We need campaign finance reform so the Corporations and Big Oil Barrens don't buy our legislators and they can start to work for the people again.
It is not Congress's job to work with the President. The President has to work with Congress since laws start in Congress not the Executive branch.
Congress makes the laws. The executing branch, aka the US President, enforces the laws. People keep on forgetting that. Congress is split into two sections the House and Senate. There have been a large number of bills that passed the House and never saw the light of day in the Senate. Exactly how is Boehner, a member of the House, responsible for bills not being brought to the Senate floor? Harry Reid controls what the Senate votes on. The lack of bills being brought to the Senate floor is all on Harry Reid. Look art Harry Reid for not doing his job in the Senate for job bills not getting passed.
The US President is not supposed to be making laws. Obama by using executing Order to make laws is going around Congress. Obama by not enforcing laws he doesn't like is breaking the law.
Patrick .. when the House, mainly filled with Republicans, pass their Bills to the Senate, most of them have to do with repealing the Health Care Law. Others put in mandates to take away more money from the poor and needy, like the food programs. Some of the Bills the Republicans in the House send to the Senate are just repeats of the same ole stuff. You wonder why the Senate doesn't bring them up for a vote?
Do you even know what your talking about Norma? Your idiocy astounds me. The house has tried to repeal the ACA a lot but it is no where near encompassing "most of them (bills)". Furthermore, your emotions get the better of you since welfare programs have seen a steady increase in funding since their inception and yet the poor and minority populations remain Stagnant where they are. Democrat policies effectively strangle black populations to ensure "those niggers vote for us for the next 200 years" while not caring less if a black man becomes successful or not.
Yes, the legislative process does begin with Congress, specifically with the House to begin the process. The only problem is that this particular House doesn't seem to create laws, but rather, trouble. God All Mighty would not be able to push legislation through the House, as it exists today.
I suppose that Obama is responding to the lack of legislative process which is a result of a mal-functioning house of Represenataives. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure it out. If the House can deviate from its primary purpose, then so can Obama.
As much as I have to respect the President. He is also one that didn't stay in the Senate that long (1year) before he decided to step down and try for President. He did not last one year in the Senate before stepping down. He didn't do anything for his state( Chicago) while he was in the Senate. I can't understand why people would vote for him if he couldn't even help out his own state. Fact is we are a country of laws and we should be abiding by those laws. The President should be upholding the laws not breaking them for his own benefit.
vdyashanti
Let speaker go after the senate.
GlenR
This is just another example of the GOP/Tea Party behaving like spoiled little children. Like a small child not accepting that mommy said no they can't accept that they lost the presidential election.
So for the last 4 years they've been doing the legislative version of holding their breath. It hasn't gotten them their way so now they are attempting a version of going to the other parent ( the courts) and trying to get them to intercede for them.
In the meantime we have a new member of the party everyday standing in front of the cameras throwing temper tantrums like frustrated little children as well as whining more silly threats like the constant cry of impeachment. Of course just like little children they know their threats are empty.
yesm
number of Exec orders by Obama: 172
Number of Exec orders by Bush: 291
Where was the outrage then? GOP is a joke, same as Dems. no difference between them; in the meantime out country is degrading.
It is not a count of executive orders, it is the laws already on the books that must be enforced by the president, even if you do not agree with them. Review the oath a US president takes when he assumes the office. If one person is allowed to decide what will and will not be enforced, we are in trouble.
June 27, 2014 at 11:21 am |
number of Exec orders by Obama: 172 Number of Exec orders by Bush: 291 Where was the outrage then? GOP is a joke, same as Dems. no difference between them; in the meantime out country is degrading.
Number of executive orders by Clinton 364. Obama still has 2 1/2 years to continue screwing America.
Spoken like a true minion of the democrat plantation Glen – you wear that yoke so well.
The Entire GOP Platform In A Single Paragraph
The GOP Prayer/Mantra/Solution: Dear God...With your loving kindness, help us to turn all the Old, Sick, Poor, Non-white, Non-christian, Female, and Gay people into slaves. Then, with your guidance and compassion, we will whip them until they are Young, Healthy, Rich, White, Christian, Male, and Straight. Or until they are dead. God...Grant us the knowledge to then turn them into Soylent Green to feed the military during the next "unfunded/off-the-books" war. God...Give us the strength during our speeches to repeatedly yell........TAX CUTS FOR THE RICH!!!..........and........GET RID OF SS AND MEDICARE!!!
In your name we prey (purposely misspelled, or is it?)........Amen
And I suppose you want that delivered up on a silver Platter by the rich. But who is rich anymore with all the big spending programs now in place. Last time I checked your Nanny was on the ropes gasping for breath. hope you have a good retirement plan. You will have to deliver it yourself.
You have a vivid and twisted imagination. Republicans occupy the moral high ground in this country and donate more to charities and philanthropy than all the democrats could ever squeeze from their greedy pockets.
"The top 10 percent of taxpayers paid over 70% of the total amount collected in federal income taxes in 2010, the latest year figures are available, according to the Tax Foundation, a think tank that advocates for lower taxes. That's up from 55% in 1986."
money.cnn.com/2013/03/12/news/economy/rich-taxes/
We need to send Obama to the Trash heap of history before he sends us to the Trash heap of History. So far the people don't care if they wind up on the trash heap of history. Most are selfish and want everything handed to them. Those that don't learn from History are bound to repeat it. They say Hell is for Heroes. Many of you don't know what is coming before it is too late. Hope you have a good retirement plan.
JJ in DC
How about if Boenhner looses, he quits politics. He resigns from Congress and never works in politics again. Naw don't think he believes in his case that much.
If Boehner can point to instances where Obama directly did something prohibited by a law... sure.
But here's the deal... congress essenentially passes requirements or limitations for the government agencies. But the president can order those agencies to go beyond those requirements or come short of those limitations if he likes... as long as the laws don't prevent it.
The minimum wage is... a minimum. Private companies can pay more then the minimum. So can the government agencies. THe president is COMPLETELY within his rights to set a higher minimum both for the agencies he controls and those that the agencies do business with... just like a private CEO can.
What he can't do is set a wage BELOW the minimum... because... it's a minimum.
Similarly... the justice department has been granted the authority BY CONGRESS to pass on defending laws if they feel that the cases cannot be won based on prior court decisions. CONGRESS gave them that ability. They are allowed to not contest lawsuits against congressional laws.
The fact is Obama has issued fewer executive orders per year then any president since James Garfield. Just using executive orders is NOT unconstitutional. That's how the president gives edicts to the agencies he controls based on the rules, limitations and requirements that Congress sets. The only way there can be any validity is if they can show cases where the president obviously violated the rules, limitations and requirements congress set. But they haven't floated any specific examples yet... they just say "executive orders".
They need more then that. And not only does it need to be a violation or rules and requirements... it also needs to be seen as meaningful by the public. Giving companies an extra year to comply with Obamacare rules won't work... not because it's not breaking a rule (it is) but because the public will see it as the president doing what the GOP was pushing for. They're going to cry foul at the GOP attacking him for doing something they were pushing for afterwards.
It's like the Lewinsky thing. While Clinton did do something that technically warranted impeachment (lying under oath)... the american people viewed this as Clinton's personal life, not his public life and didn't feel like the GOP should have gone after him for it. If he had been stealing taxpayer money for personal gain... they'd have been after his head. But hiding an affair... not so much.
"If Boehner can point to instances where Obama directly did something prohibited by a law... sure.
But here's the deal... congress essenentially passes requirements or limitations for the government agencies. But the president can order those agencies to go beyond those requirements or come short of those limitations if he likes... as long as the laws don't prevent it."
Here in lies the problem with your thinking, When congress passes a law it is ( The Law ) and not a decree that the president can change at will, such as making changes to Obamacare mandates. Which is the Democrats own law and this is only one of Obama's abuse of executive power.
Obama is always threatening to use executive orders to bypass congress in order to stir up crap but knows he is limited. The real problem and the most troubling is his directing the justice department and others to simply change law at his will, eg. The 40 plus changes to the obamacare LAW.
Where is his executive orders for them, after all YOU stated on this forum:
" Executive orders is how the government functions. It's the process by which the president executes the laws congress passes. Congress says "regulate polution". The president issues executive order to properly accomplish that goal. Some presidents (like Obama) tend to let the agency heads make their own calls and issue few executive orders for detailed orders. Others (like Reagan, Clinton, Nixon, Carter or Eisenhower) issue alot more with very specific guidance.
Do you think it will be OK for the next President to change LAW at will, no matter the party to which he/she belongs?
And those few executive orders you mentioned is irrelevant at this point because he still still has 2 1/2 years, unfortunately.
I am so sick of these whiny, obstructive Republicans. They are the real reason there hasn't been any progress but plenty of wars for years. They protect the rich and step on the poor. Get them out!
I'm going to do my best to get Mitch McConnell out, by voting for Alison Grimes, here in Kentucky. We've had more than enough of Mitch McConnell. I'd like to do the same to Rand Paul, too, but that will have to wait.
suck on this
am sooooo sick of these whiny, obstructive Republicans. They are the real reason there hasn't been any progress but plenty of wars for years. They protect the rich and step on the poor. Get them out!
dropout loser and impressionable I d I o t
Someone better- this changing things until just after elections is getting VERY old since laws are to be upheld as written not changed for political advantage- People this applies to all presidents! Get over the partisan stuff and let's get the constitution and the separation of powers back under control
Waste of time and money because Boehner has no legitimate reason at all. All presidents have the options to use executive orders when it's needed while our own government is not working with them but instead against him. This has been the entire case during Obama's presidency and still on going. Some people just don't get along but that's not a good reason to drag anyone to court. It's his right to use executive orders because he has been granted the power to do it as being the president of our country.
It's also his job( president) to uphold the laws of the United States of America.
Wow! Obama has signed fewer exec orders than other presidents. This is Boehner's pettiness and idiocy. In fact, the people of the United rates should be suing Boehner for his grossly irresponsible actions that led DIRECTLY to a credit downgrade. Boehner has refused to allow democratic votes, meaning that he is negligent. He has allowed useless repeal votes, which is irresponsible. He has cost US taxpayers billions unnecessarily.
I hope Boehners suit gets in front of a judge so he can be exposed for the fool, charlatan and grotesque incompetent that he is. He never answers a question, lets see him bully a judge, see what happens Mr. Speaker. Worst congress in history, driven by pettiness and ugliness ... Mr Speaker, meet your legacy.
Fred Griswold
Boehner is going to bring a bill to the House floor authorizing a Bipartisan Legal Advisory Group to file a lawsuit against the President, so say the news reports. But if it's a bill, doesn't Obama have to sign it before it becomes law? And there's zero chance Obama would sign such a thing. I feel like I'm missing something. But if it happens, I'm not necessarily against it, if it curbs presidential power. Obama wants to hog all the power to himself. Even to the point of being the judge, jury and executioner over American citizens, as he did with Abdulrahman al-Awlaki. And increasing presidential power will probably work to the disadvantage of the Democrats anyway, in the long run, since the Republicans do win the presidency most of the time. I still feel like I'm missing something.
emskadittle
well i guess since nothing is coming out the house, he has plenty of time for more political stunts
I guess the GOP isn't "winning" with their obstruction strategy so this in the next play in the book. Keep up the good work GOP if the Tea Party doesn't destroy your party, you'll just have to do it yourselves.
You haven't been paying attention to Obama's poll numbers have you, despite the continued help from liberal media they are still dropping. Even worst than Bush.
This a political move to energize the religious and tea party base. The problem is that the republicans just energized the opponent's base. Especially dumb, when the opponent's base is large than your base.
The Republican's are depending on a low turnout in mid-term election, they just blow that. There are way to many of us independents that are going remember the government shutdowns that effect our retirements.
And remember Democrats definitely effected the outcome in Mississippi.
I have voted Republican mainly for over 45 years, but won't until the Republican quit letting Koch and Rove buy votes.
OMG These guys do NOTHING and keep wanting to file ridiculous lawsuits and stupid investigations. Vote these do nothing Republicans out! They are wasting our time and money.
wigglwagon
What President Obama has done on immigration is a direct violation of his oath of office. Telling ICE to concentrate on violent criminals was okay but telling ICE not to prosecute known violations is complete dereliction of their official duties.
justbeamensch
MasterBoehner
Here we go again!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Boehner and the Republicans are wasting taxpayer money
Hector Slagg
The democrats and liberals and Obama have been doing things they have no business doing, bass akwards these last 100 years. With Obama's Poll numbers being in the dungeon the only thing he can do is violate the U.S. Constitution. Most likely the next presidential election will see a republican elected overwhelmingly. Fixing the 18 Trillion Dollar Federal debt needs to be started now before Obama and the Liberals send the Nation the way of Rome.
Mission accomplished. Brownie, you're doing a heck of a job.
President Bush should have gone off budget(meaning not included in the budget) for the Iraq War and they left bill for future administrations.
Reagan, Clinton, Bush have done more executive orders than Obama. And just because you don't like him does not mean he is all that you claim. The very same was said of FDR, Nixon, Reagan and Clinton.
Just admit that you don't like him, that's your opinion, but quit trying to justify it, it is been said an argued before. It is a political move.
James Owens
I'm sorry, what exactly are the republicans doing to fix the deficit? Oh yes, they're considering suing the President. No one is doing a good job and the majority of the people the in Congress and Senate don't deserve their jobs. So try something smart and make sure you vote for someone who is actually going to do something instead of acting like a child who can't get the toy they want.
jboh
Bass akwards? All you can do is quote Palin around w/witch doctors and secessionists? Pathetic.
Hector... how will a GOP candidate win the next election overwhelmingly? By getting what percentage of votes from what voting blocks.
Here's the problem (for the GOP) that I see.
The last time a GOP candidate for president won handily was when Bush beat Dukakis in 1988. In that election Bush took 60% of the white vote and 25% of the minority vote and won by 7 percentage points.
In 2012... Mitt Romney took 60% of the white vote and 25% of the minority vote.. .and lost by 4 percentage points.
The GOP needs to take more then 25% of the minority vote to have a shot in a presidential election. They haven't done anything to court that voting block. Given that every four years, the white voting demographic loses 2% to the minority groups... how do you see even a close GOP win happening... let alone an "overwhelming" win?
So to clarify
@Slagg – So to clarify. Boehner is suing Obama and wasting tax payer dollars and that will help save money? Ok. Got it.
Funny that none of you ever seem to get around to actually naming these terrible things. Just like your pathetic cries of impeachment nothing you ever say has a basis in reality
lou sum
NO he should not sue OBAMA. He should find out why CNN, NBC ,CBS ,ABC dont have crap about the IRS hearing. As free people you should be very afraid of that thing in the white house.
I'm guessing because it's a non-issue. Apparently, all the GOP can do is grandstand. If they would maybe work on job creation or lowering the cost of college they could actually win elections on merit. If they continue down this path either the Tea Party will destroy them or they will make themselves obsolete by continuing to do things the majority of Americans clearly do not want.
Maybe because with all the IRS stuff being talked about, only one politically affiliated group was actually denied 504 status... and it was a liberal one. While they may have been "targeting" more conservative groups... they only actually "hit" a liberal one.
Whaaaa IRS whaaaa IRS. More childish behavior from the party that wants people to think they are mature enough adults to govern
oceanluvver2
If Boehner and his cronies put the amount of effort into doing their job that they do being mad at the President, this country might be going in the right direction in many different areas. However, they can't stand the support he has, so they have done nothing but fight against him at every turn. If people can't see that, then they are blind and as useless as this group of losers. Boehner and his cronies are useless and should resign, but they are much to crooked and greedy to do that. What a bunch of boneheads. If the President can't get these losers to do their job, then HELL yes he should use his executive powers! What good is it to be President if you can't make those tough decisions that need to be made??
Tractingurg ... I agree with you completely. The Republicans in the House have a lot to be accountable for, and they will only find themselves with a red face if they persist on suing our President, who has every right under the law, to use his power as President when he sees fit. I sure don't remember the Republicans suing President Reagan and President Bush, when they did the same thing, only they both did it more often.
I mean you, Oceanluvver2 .. too. 🙂
Margie61
stop wasting money and get some work done – like a jobs bill – none of this trickle down crap, it doesn't work!. I am thoroughly disgusted with the entire GOP. They are wasting our money – yours and mine. Whether you like Obama or not, he is the president of the US and deserves respect. The way he is talked about, referred to is totally disgusting and makes us the laughing stock of the entire world.
If Boehner and the rest of the useless Congress would put the same amount of effort into doing their job as they do going after the President for something they can't win, the country would be better off. But instead, they can't stand it that a smart, black man is President. They have done nothing but fight Obama the whole time he has been in office. They should be ashamed of themselves and do the people a favor and resign. But we know that will never happen. They make too much money from money being stuffed into their pockets for their votes and bad service to make a few happy. Boehner and his cronies are a bunch a boneheads.
Leftcoastrocky
So John Boehner, the most incompetent Speaker of the most useless, do-nothing session of the House in the history of our Republic; the Speaker responsible for getting the country's credit-rating downgraded for the first time in American history and for a government shutdown that cost the taxpayers 24 billion dollars, is going to try to sue President Obama for "not faithfully executing the laws of this country"???
Doesn't make a bit of sense, does it.
He should sue Obama, to the fullest reach of the law. Have him pay back his and his family vacations too.
Will you also send a bill to Reagan and Bush for all the vacations at "the ranch"?
Typical GOP/Tea Party whine that doesn't cover the fact that you have done nothing for years or come out with a single piece of coherent legislation
oh you
so obama isn't allowed to use taxpayer money on a vacation, but Boner is allowed to use tax payer money to sue obama?
I think the republicans should be sued for not doing there job, working with President Obama. They still don't get it, I think they never will. They can't get over the fact that they lost twice lolol...... And then they continue with this BS. Boner is a w himp afraid to do what is right. If they want to sue anyone they need to sue President Bush and Vice President Cheney, they broke many laws including both being dam liars. They got us into this mess, its was a mess as they both were being voted out and those two should be in prison. For killing sons of people who went and fought for us all. Cheney was and is a draft doger. Yet he want to fight but not his kids, or himself the chicken.... No one will ever get my kids killed in any war , till there children go first
banlarson
Working with the President means his way or nothing, so our government should be totally one sided I guess. There is a reason the founding fathers setup two parties with equal power as a check and balance. Working together takes two sides and this President has not shown the willingness or ability to bring anyone together, which is his job.
this spineless Republican wants to sue. Kiss my ass his bunch of joke congressmsan should be sued for doing nothing. JOBS, JOBS, JOBS, UNEMPLOYMENT, THE AMERICAN PEOPLE WHAT THE F****** HAS HE DONE TO BETTER ANYONE OF US.
ASSWIPE
What a waste of taxpayers money! I want Boehner out of office
Angel Flying
This story has absolutely convinced me that stupidity is a virus and is spreading expotentially in the United States. There is no cure, therefore this country is doomed to fail, the empire will crumble is short order.
Onthemoney
Why do we bother with these nut jobs. Someone should sue Boehner for operating a gavel while intoxicated. "Mad Men"
KeninTexas
Yes, he should sue Obama for ignoring the law. Obama swore he would uphold the law of the land, not just the ones he agreed with.
Of coarse you made such a stupid staement. You voted for oops Perry, and Crazy Cruz. A fools comments only show your ignorance.
Funny how none of you ever seem to be able to get around to actually citing which laws he's supposedly breaking
All Americans should be aware of what each and every executive order is about. Most people aren't aware of what's going on. There's some discriminatory, weird stuff in some of those executive orders.
Obama's last 10 executive orders:
– Taking away immunities and tax breaks for those developing Iraqi real estate (reversing Bush executive order)
– Blocking access to property and funds for certain people connected to the conflict in the Central African Republic.
– Expanding eligibility for the Defense Meritorious Service Medal.
– Blocking retaliation towards employees to discuss their compensation.
– Blocking access to property and funds for certain people connected to the conflict in South Sudan.
– Establishing an Emergency Board to Investigate Disputes Between the Long Island Rail Road Company and Certain of its Employees Represented by Certain Labor Organizations
– Blocking access to property and funds for certain people connected to the conflict in Ukraine (number 3)
– Streamlining the Export/Import Process for America's Businesses
Oh the horror... he's taking fairly routine administrative and diplomatic actions through executive orders just like every other US president has done for the last century.
I seriously doubt you read any of these orders you keep posting. Many even refer to previous executive orders and all are written by lawyers in terms the average person would not grasp. So save us this – I Know Everything BS, its getting old.
The problem with his "case" is two fold:
1. Obama has signed the least amount of executive orders on average than any other President in 50-100 years.
2. It will be very hard to argue legally that Obama has overstepped his grounds when the nature of his executive orders pale in comparison to what other Presidents have done which may have overstepped their authority, especially around the 1930-50s.
It's one thing to argue in the court of public opinion, but another to do so in a real court you need to have some semblance of facts and reality. Precedent has long been set and addition to that, the Judicial branch will likely throw this case out because it's almost impossible to prove any damages and its almost purely political in nature (for above reasons).
This issue is for Congress and the President to sort out. The Speaker should impeach him if he thinks he overstepped his grounds.
Other executive orders which could be invalidated if the GOP won this lawsuit.
1. The emancipation proclomation.
2. Desegregation of the US armed forces
3. Indian reservation system in US
4. Freeze of Iranian assets (started under Carter, still in place today)
5. Ban on US committing assassinations
6. FEMA
7. Ban on US use of chemical weapons.
8. Right to unionize for federal workers.
9. The design of the US flag
10. National academy of sciences
11. Much of the land for the state of Hawaii (which used to be federally owned prior to the executive orders)
12. Most national park rules.
13. Ban on federal discrimination against same sex oriented people.
14. White House "faith based initiative" office.
15. Office of Homeland Security
16. Succession rules for all government agencies
17. Equal protection for churches and other faith based organizations
18. Stem Cell research (in both directions depending who's in office)
19. Every economic sanction we've ever issued against anyone (including current Russian sanctions)
20. Pretty much every wage level for any government position... ever.
Executive orders is how the government functions. It's the process by which the president executes the laws congress passes. Congress says "regulate polution". The president issues executive order to properly accomplish that goal. Some presidents (like Obama) tend to let the agency heads make their own calls and issue few executive orders for detailed orders. Others (like Reagan, Clinton, Nixon, Carter or Eisenhower) issue a lot more with very specific guidance.
Shhhhh! No facts allowed in GOP delusionland
fehonhussein
If Boehner really means it, and is not just grandstanding to steal tea party votes for fake conservatives...
It is way past due, Speaker Boehner. I am afraid that Obama and his democratic cronies have caused irreparable damage to the nation.
We will be repairing the damage done by W for the rest of our lives. The damage done by TEA/GOP, and their Wall St puppet masters, have all but destroyed us already.
labman57
The Executive Order has been around since the dawn of our nation, and the constitutionality of this process was validated by the SCOTUS in the 1950's. Every President in the past century has used executive orders with greater frequency that the current POTUS.
Using the powers granted to the Executive Branch to enact certain programs and policies is just as legal and part of the democratic process as is the Senate Republican minority's use of the filibuster to obstruct said programs and policies.
Had the GOP not blatantly abused the latter, Obama would not feel compelled to implement the former.
So why the current right wing uproar over Obama's plan to "get things done" via Executive Order? What is substantively different this time?
I suspect that it's largely a matter of some complexion.
And so House Republicans once again resort to voting on wholly partisan, politically-loaded, yet fundamentally meaningless, totally symbolic proclamations as a means of avoiding any discussion of useful, substantive, productive legislation that meets the needs and concerns of the American people at large.
In short, the GOP - addicted to tepid tea - has resigned itself to serve as little more than a speed-bump on the road to progress.
100% accurate. We have seen TEA/GOP turn into Salem witch hunters, just like the talibangelical Puritans.
REGinAZ
I wish I could share others' trust in today's Republican Party, Tea Party or not, as an ex-long term registered Republican who still believes in Republican philosophies (least amount of government is best and government should only do for the people that which they can't do for themselves) I would like that ... but as I see it, they have become totally owned and controlled by "the money", concentrating totally on their political ambitions and on serving only "the money" for the support, while cocky confident that together they can just con the people and simply manipulate public opinion with their aggressive actions and abundant propaganda. Their abandonment of their important responsibilities inherent in their base philosophies (not the least being to protect – rather than enabling – the majority from being exploited by the advataged few – as we saw under Bush-Cheney and hear proposed today by the "puppets" – with simply having at least as much government as is needed and doing what the people can't do for themselves) for me that just leaves any faith in them unjustified.
maxine howard
Yes, they should sue him! About time!
Bush-Cheney, Rove, Rice, etal, should have not only been sued but also prosecuted for using their offices and America's resources for their private agenda to serve their political and private interests and to serve only "the money", their strong supporters and masters. They constantly lied to the American people, to the world and criminally to congress and today's Republican Party fully intends to return us to "more of the same", which can only result in "more of the same". Disgusting but none the less reality.
Keep drinking the TEA aid.
If suing is going to stop obama, sue. Republicans are going to cut obama off at the knees when they win back the Senate so it'll be a one-two punch. Maybe then obama will notice he can be rendered invisible in the halls of congress.
What is reality is that Obama has accomplished quite a lot after inheriting all the problems left by Bush-Cheney and having no cooperation or contribution from today's Republicans who have constantly and aggressively just arrogantly faulted him and stubbornly blocked every effort. The Republicans simply concentrate on their political ambitions and on only serving "the money", their strong supporters and masters – to look to them for improvement is like wanting the Mafia to clear up some injustices. The only way people can't see this is by their being naive and gullible, being conned and deceived by the abundant propaganda and by allowing their prejudices, biases, emotions and misplaced loyalties to be exploited.
Pharmgrl
Guess that's why his approval rating is 43%.
Guess that is why O's approval rating is almost double what W's was in second half of second term.
SURE MAYBE THEY CAN GET SOME DEMOCRATES TO HELP THEM
Your partisan, foolish ignorance is showing.
RWB1956
You really think that's going to happen. That the Republicans are going to be rewarded by the country for obstructing President Obama? You do realize the majority does not think like you. Boehner just put another nail in the GOP coffin. You people don't mind continuously slandering a decent man because of what you think he has done or is doing. You have been trying for nearly six years and never have any proof. And let me tell you speculation does not stand up in court. Good day, Madame.
Pigheaded
Somebody's gonna have to eat their words this November. Starts with "D". :). Heh heh.
You do understand the meaning of the word "majority" don't you?
GOP is projected to take back senate, ending Obama's domestic agenda for all practical purposes.
They will immediately start chipping away at Obamacare, which is what the electorate wants in poll after poll.
Obama will likely have to veto a GOP bill that gets rid of the individual mandate.
That plus other resistance to changing Obamacare could easily sink Hillary's boat.
The two most politically toxic Obamacare provisions, the employer mandate and IPAB, have yet to be implemented in Obama's "bad medicine in small doses" approach.
Was that projection made by ORCA? Or by Karl Rove? Even Nate Silver is revising his numbers!
And when they don't win the senate what are you going to do? Whine like usual. Throw tantrums like usual. Toss around vague silly threats of impeachment and criminal charges like usual and file silly worthless lawsuits like usual.
This is what the GOP calls governing. The rest of us call it behaving like spoiled children.
Shhh. Let 'em have their fantasy. They are counting on low turnout by Independents and Democrats. I never voted before in mid-terms but that will never happen again after 2010. And I don't think I'm alone. I do not want hate-filled people deciding my fate in this country while they try again and again to "get" this President. If a lot of people vote the GOP knows they don't have a chance.
miguel r. serda, jr.
if Boehner or any other right wing hater wants to sue the president or impeach him. then do it or shut the hell up because there is no reason or case for either one of those options. he and his ilk remind me of crickets, they chirp and chirp until one gets close to them, then they shut the hell up.
Just more money and time wasting by both parties. Vote all the incumbants out when the opportunity arises.
Might as well they have nothing else to do in that congress, what a legacy he will have.
What he should do is resign.
who would take Boehners place if he resigned
A retarded jellyfish would do nicely.
Anyone that can say "NO".
I realize you were being cynical, however the we need someone willing to say NO, to prevent further damage to our nation by the current administration. This is how checks and balances work. Example of what we get without it: OBAMACARE
Go for it boehner
Give it a try Boehner. You're a nut case.
No one expected a 9 to 0 judgment against Obama in the SCOUS either but there have been 13 to date, so yes go for it Boehner
Leave a Reply to GlenR

redpajama_set_name: RedPajamaCommonCrawl


text:
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$Revision: 1.1 $
$Date: 2007-03-29 17:03:31 $

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package org.rti.webgenome.graphics.widget;

import java.awt.Point;

import org.rti.webgenome.graphics.DrawingCanvas;

/**
 * Empty space used for padding in plots
 *
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public class EmptySpace implements PlotElement {

    // ==============================
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    private final int width;
    private final int height;
    private int minX = 0;
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     * @param height Height in pixels
     * @param color Color
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     * Point at top left used to align with other plot elements
     * @return A point
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     * @return A point
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        return new Point(this.minX + this.width, this.minY);
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    /**
     * Point at bottom right used to align with other plot elements
     * @return A point
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        return new Point(this.minX + this.width, this.minY + this.height);
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    /**
     * Width in pixels
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        return this.width;
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     * Height in pixels
     * @return Height in pixels
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        return this.height;
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    /**
     * Return point at top left of element
     * @return A point
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    public Point topLeftPoint() {
        return new Point(this.minX, this.minY);
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    /**
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}


Looking though it will last?
The pieces of a different species.
Stings again, again and again.
Longer than could ever be true?
Impervious to all... it seems.
What brought this pest to me?
Why this trouble... do I see?
Looking though it will last.
Longer then us? Hard to grasp!
Oozing with puss? Run fast!