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The Mitford files: Exploring the extraordinary lives of six sisters
Surely more forests have been felled in the name of the Mitford girls than any other family circle in history, and the death recently of 94-year-old Deborah, the youngest and longest-lived, prompts a consideration of the sisters' contribution to the world of letters – as both authors and subjects.
By Mark McGinness.
First published in The National, 2 October 2014.
Between 1904 and 1920, Lord and Lady Redesdale produced a son, Tom, and six daughters – Nancy, the novelist and Francophile; Pam, a horsewoman, farmer and cook; Diana, a fascist beauty; Unity, a besotted Nazi; Jessica ("Decca"), an American communist and writer; and Deborah ("Debo"), the Duchess of Devonshire. They were six variations of the same face and voice with an obsessive dedication to a person or cause. Nancy's love for Gaston Palewski, Unity's for Hitler and Diana's for the English fascist Oswald Mosley, blighted their lives – although none of them would ever admit it. Jessica's dedication to communism and Deborah's to her home, Chatsworth House, were just as strong but cast no shadows.
Four of the sisters – Nancy, Diana, Jessica and Deborah – took to print. Memoirs from the last three of them (and more than 40 books among them); novels and historical biographies from Nancy; biographies and reviews from Diana; and exposés from Jessica, the Queen of Muckrakers. Three volumes of Nancy's letters have been published (one, her correspondence with Evelyn Waugh), 700 pages of letters from Jessica, and Deborah's 54 years of brilliant badinage with the travel writer Patrick Leigh Fermor, In Tearing Haste. There are also the 843 pages of correspondence between all six sisters, covering 77 years.
These tomes join four previous biographies of Nancy (by Harold Acton, Selina Hastings, Laura Thompson and Lisa Hilton); two of Diana (by Jan Dalley and Anne de Courcy); three of Unity (the most comprehensive – and controversial – by David Pryce-Jones); one of Pamela, the quietest and, according to John Betjeman, "the most rural of them all"; and two of all six sisters: The House of Mitford by Diana's son, Jonathan Guinness and his daughter Catherine; and Mary Lovell's quite definitive The Mitford Girls. There was even a musical of the same name in 1981. Deborah's daughter, Sophia Murphy, also produced The Mitford Family Album. Biographies of Deborah are certain, like her beloved chickens, to be hatched before long.
Why the fascination? The lives of the Mitford sisters have riveted, and repelled, Anglophiles, romantics and readers since the 1930s. Diana Mitford once wrote, "I must admit 'the Mitfords' would madden ME if I didn't chance to be one." Their hold on the public imagination, through their loves and marriages, their politics and opinions, their friendships and sense of fun, can be attributed to a mixture of aristocratic eccentricity, romance, rebellion, devotion, betrayal, estrangement, tragedy and loss; and through it all, a uniquely irrepressible wit. This absolute self-possession and determination to treat the gravest aspects of life as a lark are what make the Mitfords such an enduring study.
The Mitfords: Letters between Six Sisters (2008), superbly edited by Diana's daughter-in-law, Charlotte Mosley, presents the sisters at their vivid best, bouncing off each other, revealing a distinctive, instantly recognisable style that shines through each one's letters. The lives of the Mitford girls seem as remote today as the Bennett sisters. The latter were fictional and the Mitfords have become so, too.
It is almost impossible for many to separate the family from their fictional equivalents. The books that made them so, and grew into what Jessica dubbed the Mitford Industry, were Nancy's The Pursuit of Love (1945) and Love in a Cold Climate (1949), which become classics, still in print today, creating cult figures of her already notorious family.
The intensely autobiographical nature of Nancy's fiction might suggest a lack of creative imagination, but the real-life models she was so brilliantly able to draw on – with some, but not much, embellishment – made it all the more fascinating for appearing to be true. Published in December 1945, The Pursuit of Love, a hilarious, high-spirited and sweepingly romantic tale came at just the right time to a country exhausted and numb after six years of war.
That spirit and the ingredients of love, childhood and the eccentricities of the English aristocracy in the guise of the Radlett family make it still so eminently readable today. Nancy trumped her success with Love in a Cold Climate four years later, again drawing on life with the Radletts, but focusing on their neighbours.
Half a century passed between Nancy's first novel, Highland Fling (1931), and Debo's first book. Eldest green-eyed Nancy never recovered from not being an only child and was relentless in her teasing. She called Debo "Nine" – her apparent mental age – and claimed she had to point to the words on a page to read. Debo played on this, claiming never to read; rather like Favre (as they called their father), who apparently only ever read one book, White Fang, which he found so good there was no need to read another.
Debo was certainly a late developer but would write almost as many books as Nancy, and proved herself as gifted, original and funny as her supposedly cleverer sisters. Most of them reflected her life's work, Chatsworth House, the seat of the Cavendishes for 16 generations since 1549, the 175-room caramel-coloured pile, known as "the Palace on the Peak" in Derbyshire, which in 1959, she and her husband, Andrew, the 11th Duke of Devonshire, occupied (with their son and two daughters) and set about to rescue. Debo was arguably the greatest chatelaine of the 20th century.
In 1980, at the age of 60, she produced Chatsworth: The House (1980); then in 1990, The Estate: A View from Chatsworth. The Treasures of Chatsworth and The Farmyard at Chatsworth were published in 1991 and, in 1999, The Garden at Chatsworth. Two years later a bestselling collection of home thoughts and reviews, Counting My Chickens (2001), appeared. She was a hen breeder and chicken lover for more than 80 years.
The Chatsworth Cookery Book appeared in 2003. Debo's hairdresser thought she had a nerve as she had not cooked since 1945. But she was better than two of her sisters. Nancy, looking after her father during the war, threw an egg into a pot of water and was appalled when "a sinister sort of octopus grew out of it". So she threw in two more – the whole week's ration – and the same thing happened. She then gave up. Jessica was no more adept. Her recipe for roast goose reads: "Take a goose and roast till done."
In 2005, Round About Chatsworth was published, featuring the 35,000 acres that surround the house – plumb full of houses and architectural curiosities: bridges and byres, mills and a mortuary, turrets, towers and troughs, forests, fountains and follies – brimming with Devonshire knowledge and Mitford dash.
Writing about Chatsworth was the most natural thing in the world for Deborah and so it read. She listed her occupation in Who's Who as "housewife" and would refer to Chatsworth as "the dump". As Alan Bennett said in his introduction to the second collection of her journalism, Home to Roost … And Other Peckings (2009), a bestseller like her predecessor, "Deborah Devonshire is not someone to whom one can say 'joking apart …': with her it's of the essence, even at the most serious and saddest of moments."
And in a long life, she had her tragedies and her trials. She lost three children at birth and like many a duke, her husband had affairs. He was also an alcoholic and a gambler but gave these up so their last two decades were warm and companionable.
"Happiness is very rare and totally overrated," Deborah would say. "Contentment is completely different and Chatsworth has made me content … I am the most easily pleased of the sisters."
By December 2005, sisterless and widowed (her last sister, Diana, died in 2003 and the Duke the following year), Debo left Chatsworth to her son, the 12th duke, and his wife, moving nearby to the Old Vicarage at Edensor. She called it the Old Vic and soon made it her own. She continued to contribute to The Spectator as a columnist and reviewer. Her views were sturdily conservative – Crown and countryside, the social order and stiff upper lip, good manners, loyalty and friendship, but always expressed with originality and humour.
Then, at the age of 90 and by then almost blind, she published her memoirs, Wait for Me!, perhaps the most reliable and rational account of life as a Mitford sister, recalling the stumpy-legged infant trying to catch up to her five big sisters. Indifferent to their politics, her love for her sisters was unwavering. Debo had been the Redesdales' last chance for another son. Mabel the parlourmaid recalled, "I knew it was a girl by the look on his lordship's face." Yet, unlike her tearaway sisters she loved life at home with Muv and Favre and became her father's favourite. Apart from preserving Chatsworth and protecting the legacy of her sisters, the Duchess of Devonshire championed, through her writing and her patronages, traditional values and the importance of country life; proving in the end, to be the grandest and most remarkable of that remarkable brood.
Mark McGinness is a freelance writer and reviewer based in Dubai.
This entry was posted in Paddy's Friends and tagged Deborah Devonshire, Mitford sisters on October 29, 2014 by proverbs6to10.
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Correspondence SACRED SECRETS IN "SPIES LIKE Us" (July 1/July 8), Harvey Klehr praises our book for being "filled with fascinating and important new data about Soviet espionage and some Americans...
...Even America's foremost cake mix apologist, Ann Byrn, author of the best-selling The Cake Mix Doctor, admits industrial products need additional flavoring to eliminate that "cake mix taste...
...Cohen is right to want thorough and thoughtful debate about biotechnology...
...The fact that anybody can repeat it without a thought shows how easily we are seduced by the culture of disdain for ordinary people...
...He argues that we confused the bugging of Steve Nelson's apartment with a telephone tap...
...PARADISE REGAINED ERIC COHEN points out some tensions—though not actual contradictions—in pro-biotechnology arguments ("Biotech Loses Its Innocence," June 24...
...DISSENT FROM DISSENT IN ADDITION to an impressive amount of distortion, misinterpretation, and factual error, Stephen Schwartz commits a serious slander in his review of Susan Weissman's biography of the novelist Victor Serge ("Telling Socialism's Story," July 1/July 8...
...it is quite another to implicate a long-suffering poet in such activities...
...And surely anti-biotech forces have been quicker than pro-biotech forces to spin current research in order to bolster their political arguments...
...Steve Nelson's home may well have been bugged and his telephone tapped, but his conversation with Zarubina was in his house, not on the telephone, and their book gives both stories...
...In 1989, I coauthored an article in the journal Arguments and Facts International that described the discovery of the transcript of Tsvetayeva's interrogation by the French police after the flight of her NKVD-agent husband Sergei Efron...
...But it is juvenile...
...But "the Duncan Hines mix turned the tables on the established brands by telling the housewife to add two fresh eggs...
...This judgment merely ratifies the belief held at the time by no less a figure than Vladimir Nabokov...
...They tasted exactly like one of my mother's scratch cakes...
...JERROLD AND LEONA SCHECTER Washington, DC HARVEY KLEHR RESPONDS: The Schecters do not refute any of the criticisms I offered...
...Previously, "mixes were promoted mainly as a convenience product...
...If all she wanted was a standard white or yellow cake, that was "real baking," less the mindless sifting and measuring, so it was not inconsistent for a food-lover like Hines to lend it his name...
...As for Harry Truman's knowledge of Venona, the Truman Library can find no indication of what Carter Clarke told the president at his June 4, 1945, meeting...
...Go to a survivalist store and get some to try, if they still stock them...
...As for Jeffrey Isaac's comment: I have known for quite a while that dissenting from Dissent is asking for trouble...
...KEITH GESSEN Syracuse, NY NOT CONTENT TO COMMENT on Susan Weissman's biography of Victor Serge, Stephen Schwartz feels compelled to slander Dissent magazine...
...It could not have been about the code names of suspected spies because, as the National Security Agency has noted, not until July 1946 did Meredith Gardener begin to read KGB messages...
...But I'm grateful for the reminder...
...He repeats, following Weissman, that while living in Paris the poetess Marina Tsvetayeva was an agent of the NKVD...
...CHARLES PERRY Staff Writer, Food Section Los Angeles Times Sylmar, CA EDMUND LEVIN RESPONDS: Charles Perry is certainly correct that the addition of fresh eggs to cake mixes was an improvement over dehydrated eggs...
...In 1951, Advertising Age remarked approvingly on the shrewd marketing plan...
...Yet Klehr cannot adjust his academic focus to accept revelations by "confidential sources whose motivations and reliability are unknown...
...And cake mixes do have their place...
...In addition, considerable archival material has been published in Russia on the Tsvetayeva-Efron menage, much of which confirms her involvement...
...So it's still a mystery why Hines—who was obsessed from childhood with the quality of food and never had any taste for "con-venience"—put his name on a cake mix...
...Schwartz's real problem is revealed when he says that Serge "belonged to the group perhaps best described as 'anticipatory neoconserva-tives.'" Intellectual history is more complicated than this...
...Wesley J. Smith ("Congress and Cloning," July 1/July 8) expresses the oft-heard conservative confidence in adult stem cell research, while most scientists remain unsure that adult stem cells have the plasticity of embryonic stem cells...
...Oliver Kirby, who worked for Clarke and was in charge of breaking the Russian codes, attests to Truman's knowledge of Venona...
...Anti-biotech activists tell us not to define human life in reductionist, materialistic terms...
...TODD SEAVEY New York, NY A HALF-BAKED STORY...
...Anyone who has read Dissent or knows anything about its history will know how absurd this is...
...We are far from understanding what trait is caused by each component of the human genome, but experiments in the replacement of diseased cells with newly cloned ones are well underway in animals and may soon help humans...
...We are glad that he enjoyed reading Sacred Secrets and hope readers of THE WEEKLY STANDARD will follow his lead...
...He describes a recent Dissent review by Keith Gessen as a "hatchet-job," performed in order "to undermine Serge by sabotaging Weissman's biography and obscuring the real evils of Moscow's secret police and the anger of Serge's reaction to them...
...It's amazing that nobody blinks at the suggestion that dehydrated eggs are every bit as good as fresh...
...William Kristol now argues that therapeutic cloning, even if it works, will be so inefficient that it might as well be banned (though many scientists seem to disagree with him—and a capitalist should know that inefficient practices tend to disappear without the need for bans anyway...
...Schwartz implies that Dissent, which he nastily describes as an "organ of the recusant anti-anti-Communist school of Irving Howe," promotes Stalinist apologetics...
...I and others have concluded from this document that Tsvetayeva was a knowing participant in her husband's activities...
...Defenders of science have long shown their willingness to debate topics such as the atomic bomb or the proper protocols for experimental surgery...
...The relation between Elizabeth Zarubina and Kitty Harris is irrelevant to the Schecters' confusion over whether it was Kheifitz or another Soviet operative who introduced Zarubina to the Oppen-heimer family...
...When mammalian cloning was first announced, Rush Limbaugh and others argued that scientists would never be able to create anything that has a soul in a lab...
...But that's not the point...
...But then they tell us that adult stem cell research is morally acceptable—even though the presence or absence of an eggcell membrane is the only discernible difference between the cells used in adult stem cell research and the cells used in embryonic stem cell research...
...Tsvetayeva's husband Sergei Efron was indeed an agent who organized at least one assassination, but there has never been any suggestion that Tsvetayeva actually participated...
...Hines had a lifelong disdain for any food that was not "from scratch...
...The myth seems to date to the late '70s, when feminist contempt for home-makers was in full howl...
...Just add water and pop in the oven...
...indeed, Klehr appears to have difficulty absorbing the evidence of what he did not know before...
...One might think there was just a bit more to human nature than that...
...in his nitpicking to "dilute one's confidence in the authors' command of the material," Klehr exposes his own lack of understanding of FBI methods...
...JEFFREY C. ISAAC Editorial Board, Dissent Bloomington, IN STEPHEN SCHWARTZ RESPONDS: Keith Gessen is far behind the curve on Tsvetayeva...
...He notes that biotech defenders claim the benefits of therapeutic cell-cloning are imminent while the possible horrors of radically altering the human gene code (or "eugenics," as Cohen puts it) remain far off...
...Having coauthored an excellent book with John Haynes on Venona, he is aware that sources for Soviet archival material must often be protected...
...The FBI was doing both, we learned from Robert Lamphere and other FBI agents...
...The notion that there is a straight line connecting courageous intellectual dissidents of the 1940s and the perspective of The Weekly Standard may be comforting...
...The Truman Library's presidential appointment records demonstrate that on June 4, 1945, Brigadier General Carter Clarke briefed President Truman on the program underway to break the Soviet codes...
...But now anti-biotech activists say that even single cells sitting in petri dishes, cells that will never gestate in a womb, are people with souls and with the rights of citizens—indeed, with rights that outweigh the needs of Parkinson's and diabetes sufferers...
...Surely one could play Cohen's game with anti-biotech arguments, pointing out seeming contradictions in order to cast aspersions on the whole movement...
...I remember when the Hines cake mixes came in and how much better their flavor and texture were than those from the earlier mixes...
...Is it just an "urban legend" that part of the intention was to make housewives feel they were doing "real baking...
...This is no rhetorical ploy on the part of scientists but an accurate summary of the state of research...
...Now it is one thing to invent, as Schwartz likes to, exciting scenarios whereby leftist luminaries were murdered...
...Even a NSA historian we interviewed admitted that the NSA had no proof that Truman did not know about Venona, they merely assumed it because they found no paper trail showing that Truman knew...
...IN "MIXED LEGACY: The Rise and Fall of Duncan Hines" (July 1/July 8), Edmund Levin has swallowed an urban myth: that by calling for fresh eggs, rather than including dehydrated eggs in the formula, as had been done in earlier cake mixes, the Hines product "gave the housewife the feeling she was doing real baking...
...Similarly, Klehr contradicts himself when he fails to read the connection between Elizabeth Zarubina, deputy chief of Soviet intelligence in North and South America, and her protege Kitty Harris, who was sent to reactivate two illegals close to Robert Oppenheimer...
...That microscopic barrier, sitting in a petri dish and fused to a DNA packet by an artificial electrical stimulus, makes the difference between a fellow citizen and mere medical supplies...
...But a good debate means contending with your opponent's best arguments, not concocting apparent contradictions in order to avoid the real arguments...
...He concedes that this new source material creates a new view of intelligence history...
...Correspondence SACRED SECRETS IN "SPIES LIKE Us" (July 1/July 8), Harvey Klehr praises our book for being "filled with fascinating and important new data about Soviet espionage and some Americans who were engaged in it...

redpajama_set_name: RedPajamaCommonCrawl


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Long Grove, IL
Long Grove Profile
Long Grove is a somewhat small village located in the state of Illinois. With a population of 7,956 people and just one neighborhood, Long Grove is the 253rd largest community in Illinois.
Long Grove home prices are not only among the most expensive in Illinois, but Long Grove real estate also consistently ranks among the most expensive in America.
Long Grove is a decidedly white-collar village, with fully 95.47% of the workforce employed in white-collar jobs, well above the national average. Overall, Long Grove is a village of managers, professionals, and sales and office workers. There are especially a lot of people living in Long Grove who work in management occupations (23.05%), office and administrative support (12.83%), and healthcare (10.75%).
Also of interest is that Long Grove has more people living here who work in computers and math than 95% of the places in the US.
One interesting thing about the economy is that relatively large numbers of people worked from their home: 12.35% of the workforce. While this number may seem small overall, as a fraction of the total workforce this is high compared to the rest of the county. These workers are often telecommuters who work in knowledge-based, white-collar professions. For example, Silicon Valley has large numbers of people who telecommute. Other at-home workers may be self-employed people who operate small businesses out of their homes.
Long Grove is a good choice for families with children because of several factors. Many other families with children live here, making it a place where both parents and children are more likely to develop social ties with other families. The village's good public school district and large population of college-educated adults provide an environment conducive to academic success. Many people own their own single-family homes, providing areas for children to play and stability in the community. Finally, Long Grove's overall crime rate ranks among the lowest in the country, making it one of the safest places to raise a family.
In Long Grove, however, the average commute to work is quite long. On average, people spend 34.06 minutes each day getting to work, which is significantly higher than the national average. One bright side is that local public transit is widely used, so it may be an option to avoid the headache of driving in the heavy traffic by leaving the car at home and taking transit.
In Long Grove, a lot of people use the train to get to work every day though Long Grove is a relatively small village. Those that ride the train are primarily traveling out of town to good jobs in other cities.
Long Grove Demographics
If knowledge is power, Long Grove is a pretty powerful place. 70.95% of the adults in Long Grove have earned a 4-year college degree, masters degree, MD, law degree, or even PhD. Compare that to the national average of 21.84% for all cities and towns.
The per capita income in Long Grove in 2010 was $70,645, which is wealthy relative to Illinois and the nation. This equates to an annual income of $282,580 for a family of four.
Long Grove is a very ethnically-diverse village. The people who call Long Grove home describe themselves as belonging to a variety of racial and ethnic groups. The greatest number of Long Grove residents report their race to be White, followed by Asian. Important ancestries of people in Long Grove include German, Polish, Irish, Russian, and Italian.
Long Grove also has a high percentage of its population that was born in another country: 24.70%.
The most common language spoken in Long Grove is English. Other important languages spoken here include Chinese and Slavic languages.
AGE OF Long Grove, IL HOMES
TYPE OF Long Grove, IL HOMES
SIZE OF Long Grove, IL HOMES
Employment Industries in Long Grove
in Long Grove
in Illinois
Long Grove VIOLENT CRIMES
Long Grove Property CRIMES
ADLAI E STEVENSON HSD 125
District Quality Compared to Illinois
Better than of IL school districts.
Quality Rating Compared to IL*
1 Stevenson Dr
ECONOMICALLY DISADVANTAGED 5.4% 47.7%
FREE LUNCH ELIGIBLE 5.4% 43.6%
KILDEER COUNTRYSIDE CCSD 96
Country Meadows Elem School
6360 Gilmer Rd
Long Grove, IL 60047
KG-05
Ivy Hall Elementary School
1072 Ivy Hall Ln
Kildeer Countryside Elem School
3100 Old Mchenry Rd
Prairie Elementary School
1530 Brandywyn Ln
Twin Groves Middle School
2600 N Buffalo Grv
Willow Grove Early Learning Ctr School
777 Checker Dr
PK-KG
Woodlawn Middle School
Chicago-Naperville-Elgin, IL-IN-WI Metro Area regional investment potential
Housing Affordability Trends: Chicago-Naperville-Elgin, IL-IN-WI Metro Area
Popular real estate near Long Grove
Buffalo Grove, IL (Buffalo Grove Rd / W Half Day Rd)
Deerfield, IL (Village Center)
Highland Park, IL (Highmoor)
Highland Park, IL (Ravinia)
Highland Park, IL (Woodridge)
Lake Forest, IL (City Center / Lake Forest College)
Lake Forest, IL (West Lake Forest)
Libertyville, IL (Peterson Rd / U.S. Route 45)
Northfield, IL (Village Center)
Vernon Hills, IL (S Milwaukee Ave / Greggs Pky)
81% Match ‐ Buffalo Grove, IL (Horatio Gardens)
75% Match ‐ Mundelein, IL (Ivanhoe)
75% Match ‐ Arlington Heights, IL (W Dundee Rd / N Old Arlington Heights Rd)
74% Match ‐ Buffalo Grove, IL (Buffalo Grove Rd / W Half Day Rd)
74% Match ‐ Palatine, IL (Roselle Rd / W Euclid Ave)


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I was always a fan of the very first Indiana Jones movie. As more were made, they got too hard to really believe in but Carolyn Arnold has restored my faith in that archaeology/mystery genre with her Matthew Connor Adventure Series. While I have long like Arnold's Brandon Fisher FBI and Madison Knight books, I was hesitant that the love would carry over to an adventure series like this. I was so wrong. Arnold has all of the locations down. Her descriptions of the areas Connor and friends are in amazes me. They made me feel like I was there.
The characters in this new series are amazing. There is everything from romantic/sexual tension to deep friendships to family dynamics. All of this runs in the background of treasure hunting. I know that a true archaeologist would not call it treasure hunting but these are much more fascinating than the average dig.
I definitely recommend this book and am looking forward to the next in the series. I received this book to review through Beck Valley Books Book Tours, I have volunteered to share my review and all the opinions are 100% my own.
Thank you for reading and reviewing CITY OF GOLD.


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Biografia
Carlo Alfredo Mussinelli nacque a La Spezia il 16 dicembre 1871, da Giacomo Mussinelli, di origini bergamasche, e Marina Faggioni, spezzina.
All'età di tre anni, in seguito ad una forte febbre morbillare, perse la vista e all'età di sei anni fu mandato, per sua stessa volontà, all'Istituto Ciechi di Milano, dove manifestò presto notevoli doti musicali. Nella stessa città studiò pianoforte e composizione sotto la guida del M° Saladino, ottenendo il diploma in entrambe le discipline.

Tornato a La Spezia, tramite il cugino materno Alberto Faggioni, poeta dialettale, entrò in contatto col barone Luigi d'Isengard iunior, in passato garibaldino e bersagliere, ma che in seguito era divenuto sacerdote. D'Isengard era un personaggio di spicco della vita culturale spezzina: fu poeta, drammaturgo ed insegnante (fondò la Scuola Normale Femminile di La Spezia, che sarebbe poi divenuta l'Istituto Magistrale). Presso la sua abitazione si radunava un folto gruppo di intellettuali locali, tra i quali lo stesso Mussinelli, che fu presto preso a ben volere dal religioso.

A quel periodo risalgono diverse composizioni su testi di autori soprattutto locali, tra cui gli stessi d'Isengard e Faggioni. Tra le composizioni giovanili si ricorda La Solfara, opera di ambientazione Siciliana a tema risorgimentale su libretto di Ugo Fleres e composta nel 1893, il cui numero Padre Nostro per voce solista e coro divenne celebre soprattutto come pagina musicale a sé stante. Degna di nota anche Che bèla note ciàa, su versi dialettali di Alberto Faggioni, del 1897, incisa poi nel 1935 su disco Odeon dal celebre baritono spezzino Emilio Bione, accompagnato al pianoforte da Mussinelli stesso.

Nel 1901, tramite Luigi d'Isengard, di spiccate tendenze pascoliane, ottenne di musicare l'unico libretto di Giovanni Pascoli: Il Sogno di Rosetta, testo nettamente distaccato dalla tradizione dei libretti drammatici per la quasi totale mancanza di azione, che fu al tempo vista come un aspetto problematico per la resa musicale e scenica e che portò Mussinelli ad escogitare una serie di espedienti musicali che imprimessero un certo dinamismo alla rappresentazione.
Il poemetto fu rappresentato per la prima volta con grande successo il 14 agosto 1901 al Teatro dei Differenti di Barga, sotto la direzione del M° Francesco Dupouy, con grande apprezzamento da parte dello stesso Pascoli, che alla fine della rappresentazione dedicò al giovane compositore un piccolo componimento in prosa, definendolo "giovane aedo", per analogia al cantore cieco dei testi omerici.
Alle tre rappresentazioni di Barga seguirono quelle di Lucca nel mese di Settembre al Teatro del Giglio, della Spezia nel marzo 1902  al Politeama Duca di Genova e di Pisa, riportando sempre un ottimo successo di pubblico e critica.

Nel 1955, anno della sua morte, la città della Spezia insignì della medaglia d'oro il "cieco veggente", com'ebbe a definirlo il Pascoli.

redpajama_set_name: RedPajamaWikipedia


Hear me out: it's the title of a book by Marie Kondo, a Japanese "expert declutterer and professional cleaner" – a book which I have recently read.
It's quite different to the usual run of (Western) decluttering books. For a start, there's her belief that a seven-tatami-mat room (3m/10ft by 4m/13ft) is ample living & storage space for a single person; her habit of greeting the house and thanking her belongings for their service; her almost religious devotion to folding clothes; and of course, the idea that decluttering your house is best done all in one go.
What? I hear you cry. All in one go? Does she not realize how much stuff I have?
On which note, it turns out that Japanese people are not entirely immune from hoarding, despite the overall population density and corresponding lack of space. Examples given include sixty toothbrushes, eighty rolls of toilet paper, and a hundred boxes of cotton buds – with 200 buds in each.
So rest assured, she doesn't mean that you should sort out everything you own in one day. (Phew!) Six months is more her estimation, starting with easy things like clothes and working your way up to difficult things like photos and keepsakes.
The idea is to sort everything by type, and not put, say, your clothes away – any of them – until you have sorted out absolutely all of them. This makes sense, when you realize that there's no point organizing how you're going to store a certain class of object until you know how big that class is going to be.
And here's the really surprising bit of her claim: she says that if you go through the process properly, imagining how you want your home to be and delving deep into your motivation before sorting it all out, you will never regress. It will be a once-in-a-lifetime purge. Because once you've got it the way you want it, you will have the motivation to keep it that way, one presumes.
The thing I really like about her system is the measure for deciding what to keep: does it bring me joy? If not, out it goes. Except tax papers and the like, which, alas, have to be kept regardless of the feelings they inspire.
What do you think? Could you commit to a season of purging the dross from your life – and never look back? What does your ideal feel like – and how does that look?
For myself, I'd like my living environment to be one of simplicity, spaciousness and peace; where both focus and relaxation are possible without the distraction of unfinished jobs, unnecessary items, and unimportant decisions.
As to whether I am prepared to spend the next six months ruthlessly purging all my belongings (my books!) – well, I know better than to sign up for the long term at short notice. But I am certainly considering it.
I would say it could be tackled a bit at a time, say on a particular day of the week/month, or even hour of the day. Thinking this could be better achieved with accountability to a support network e.g. we could compare notes on our on-going small (or even large) successes and triumphs. All the best. I'm just off to use this totally amazing RAINY day (Drought-breaker) to unpack a box in the garage.
Accountability! A very useful tool indeed. I had thought about occasional mentions in blog posts of how I am getting on with the decluttering, but wasn't sure if people would find it mind-numbingly boring or not.
Next PostNext Question(naire): Lark or Owl?


It is rightly said- "Life is a gift. Never forget to enjoy and bask in every moment you are in." -Anonymous.
World Suicide Prevention Day is an awareness day observed on the 10th of September each year. It is done in order to provide worldwide commitment and action to prevent suicides.
The International Association for Suicide Prevention (IASP) collaborates with the World Health Organization (WHO) and the World Federation for Mental Health (WFMH) to host the World Suicide Prevention Day.
In the past years, over 300 activities in and around 70 countries have been reported to the IASP. Every year we see a number of people committing suicide due to various reasons. This happens because of the negative mindset of the people who feel neglected and alienated by the society. The minds and thoughts attached to suicide are largely negative and often ignorant of the true facts.
World Suicide Prevention Day is symbolic of the intense need for us to shift away from these problematic interpretations of suicide towards a society that is more supportive, understanding and informed in regards to the tragic phenomenon.
The more suicide is discussed openly and reflected upon seriously the more possible it becomes for people to overcome the negative stigma that is attached to suicide. It is time to start a conversation on the topic.


Whether you want to grow tomatoes or peas in your backyard or patio, you must get planters of the right size. This will help the plants to grow properly and get enough nutrients and space.
Therefore, the planters should be large enough to provide the plants with the much-required support and room enough for proper soil preparation and requirement.
All these must be mixed in appropriate proportion and will need the right amount of space. It is for this reason you will need to buy self-watering planters for sale that are specially designed for container gardening.
Right size of pots will allow you to spread the potting mix evenly into the pots and also soak it comprehensively with water.
It will also facilitate the draining of the excess water.
Right sized pots will allow you to leave at least 1 to 2 inches of space below the rim after you put the soil mix so that you have enough room for the plastic sheet or mulch cover to put over.
Therefore, when you choose the right size of the planter you will be able to retain the required level of moisture in the pot, reduce growth of weeds and at the same time prevent washing or blowing away of the fertilizer strip.
Do not use any slow-release fertilizer.
When you are done with it, make sure that the water reservoir under the box is properly filled. Make sure that you never water the plants through the top.
Finally, choosing the right size of a planter will also depend on the final size the plant you want to grow will achieve. If it is known to grow too tall and become heavy at the top, you will need a pot with a larger diameter and solid base to prevent it from tipping over. On the other hand, small plants can be grown in multiples in larger containers or separately in small containers.


At their best, incentive programs for vehicle technologies seed an early, innovative market, getting potential users comfortable with new technology. This has been the goal of CARB's Hybrid and Zero-Emission Truck and Bus Voucher Incentive Project voucher project (HVIP) in California.
HVIP was created to accelerate the adoption of commercial hybrid vehicle technologies in California, and reduce fleet fuel use and emissions. The program has had successes, but also areas for potential improvement. Now in 2018, with some recent changes to HVIP that XL Hybrids has supported, the program is a great way for fleet operators in California to take advantage of hybrid (HEV) and plug-in (PHEV, EV) technology.


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redpajama_set_name: RedPajamaGithub


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The Federal Prop. 8 Trial / Gay Marriage Catch-All
Posted by Phoenix Rev – January 12, 2010 4:48 AM
Home » Forums » Discussions & Debates
Phoenix Rev
Posted: January 12, 2010 4:48 AM
The Most Holy Eminence Rt. Rev. Fairy Princess
Today began the slow trek to the U.S. Supreme Court regarding same-sex marriage, and the first day in the court was a doozy.
Reading various sources, including live bloggers, news reports and rushed transcripts, here is the rundown of day one (with some commentary).
Part 1 - Televising of the Proceedings
Judge Walker is for it. The plaintiffs (anti-Prop. 8 folks) are for it. Defendants are against it. The judge suggests the proceedings be videotaped and then be allowed to be put on YouTube two days later. Defendants object and petition the SCOTUS. The Supreme Court issues an injunction to stop the telecast or taping and will hear more on Wednesday.
Part 2 - The Yes on Prop. 8 Commercials
The plaintiffs want the Yes on Prop. 8 ads admitted into evidence. The defendants are opposed to anyone seeing the commercials saying that the ads do not imply intent of the Prop. 8 people (oh, please!). Judge allows the ads, except does not allow the "Gathering Storm" ad because it was made after the Prop.8 campaign had been completed and was not made by the Prop. 8 people (it was made by NOM).
Part 3 - Opening Arguments
Ted Olson starts off with claims of discrimination and inequality. Judge Walker asks about domestic partnerships or civil unions and Olson says they are inherently unequal. Judge Walker asks for evidence that Prop. 8 is economically harming California (interesting!). Olson goes for the jugular and notes that the Prop. 8 people made claims in their ads and on their websites that religious institutions would have to be closed, gay activists would take over the state, and children would need to be protected (but they never say from what). Then Olson notes that heterosexual criminals can get married but gay people can't.
Charles Cooper, attorney for Yes on Prop. 8 says that California has been very generous to gays and lesbians and has allowed them to have domestic partnerships (yes, thank you, California for allowing those uppity homosexuals to have partnerships). Cooper quotes Obama as saying marriage is between a man and a woman. Judge Walker notes that had Obama's parents moved to Virginia before his birth their marriage would not have been recognized. Cooper says race has never been a restriction enshrined in marriage. The courtroom burst into laughter.
Cooper then says marriage is for procreation first and foremost and calls it a "pro-child" institution. Judge Walker asks about other values in marriage like companionship, etc. Cooper says those are always secondary and that making them primary will "deinstitutionalize" marriage as we know it. (Wow. Just wow. So, unless you have children, your marriage is a sham.)
Cooper states that allowing gay marriage will increase the divorce rate and lower the marriage rate. How? He doesn't say but says his witness will reveal all. Judge Walker asks if this has happened in other nations and states that have gay marriage and Cooper says his witness will reveal all. Judge Walker asks if gay marriage is a threat to society and Cooper says, well, you know.
Part 4 - Testimony of Plaintiffs
The plaintiffs take the stand and talk about their relationships and how they want to get married but can't. At one point, one of the male plaintiffs said that the Yes on Prop.8 ad about protecting the children he found very offensive. (Paraphrase) "When you protect children, you protect them from a pedophile or a criminal. You don't protect yourself from a good or amicable person. Yet when they say they are protecting them from me, it's so damning. I love kids. If you put my nieces and nephews on the stand right now, I'd be the cool uncle." (A-freaking-men. I am sick of being told that children need to be protected from me. For what? Loving Rubb Ed?)
At this point, the plaintiffs want to introduce the ballot guide issued by California that contains the Prop. 8 pro and con statements and the defendants scurry to see if they should object or not (object to introducing a public document into evidence?). They don't object. Counsel for defendants questions plaintiffs about children having to learn about gay couples. Plaintiff says they will learn about them in school or not; you can't make gay people just disappear.
Part 5 - Testimony of Prof. Nancy Cott
Prof. Nancy Cott is a Yale and Harvard scholar and an expert on marriage in the United States. Cott says marriage is both a private AND public institution. She notes that people mostly think about the private side but the public side of marriage enforces the rights of liberty and privacy in a relationship. (Very, very interesting.) Cott then says that marriage has only recently been codified as one man and one woman and is very much a Western concept and notes that other countries allow polygamy, as did the ancient Jews and other civilizations throughout history.
Cott then reiterates that marriage is a civil right and an expression of liberty and then heads down a road that was nothing short of amazing. She notes that slaves in the U.S. before emancipation were not allowed to marry and that when they were emancipated, they married in droves. They didn't consider it trivial but the very foundation of their freedom. She quotes a former slave who became a Union soldier: "The marriage covenant is the foundation of all our rights."
Cott reads from the Dred Scott decision and quotes Chief Justice Taney in which he says that the laws in Scott's state prevented him from marrying and, therefore, that made him less than a full citizen. (That is stunning!)
The court adjourns for the day and will begin again tomorrow at 8:30 AM PST.
I have to say that this did not disappoint. Olson seems to know exactly what tact to take and if the Yes on Prop. 8 side take the "marriage is all about procreation" avenue, they are in for a very tough fight.
And the Dred Scott/African-American marriage information was amazing. Cott was brilliant to quote the SCOTUS on Dred Scott about how not having access to marriage makes a person less of a citizen.
Anyway, I will update tomorrow with the proceedings.
(BTW, here is Ted Olson's opening statement in full.)
Here is the link to the rundown for Day 2.
Here is the link to the rundown for Day 10.
[Note: the trial is in recess for about 30 days while Judge Walker reviews the evidence. I will update the rundown when the court is called back into session.]
"People don't need to be born again; they need to grow up." - Bishop Shelby Spong
"Medusa had a death stare too, until she met Phoenix Rev." - PRG013
Steam ID: [GWJ] Phoenix Rev
Captain_Arrrg
Posted: January 20, 2010 5:10 PM
Mountians of Colorado
Here are my hang-ups with the whole anti-gay marriage crowd: First, how could a group that is so vehemently against gay couples having families call themselves pro-family? I know that it's meant to imply the the other side must be "anti-family" but in reality, they are the only ones who seem to be overtly against families in any respect.
Second, how could anybody profess that something with a 50% failure rate is sacrosanct and should be maintained? I mean, the lady who married her house lives in California! Who do they think they're fooling?
Just ignorant f*ckers trying to use government to force their ignorance on society... in my state's case, it comes in the form of Constitutionally enshrined hatred.
Edit: I'll let NOFX re-enforce my feelings (NSFW).
Yonder wrote:
Those Obama-lovers should be ashamed of themselves up on their Ivory Tower with their Sexting, Bromancing, Chillaxin' all cool.
Dr.Ghastly
Throat Specialist
Dysplastic wrote:
Robear wrote:
It deals with the argument that to *not* do this will be economically harmful, and variants of that. It speaks to the possible effects of the decision on the state's economy.
I understand that, but isn't that a policy issue, as opposed to a legal issue? I wasn't under the impression that doing things that were bad for the economy was illegal or unconstitutional.
What country do you live..oh. Canada.
Better to reign in P&C than serve in Everything Else. - Tanglebones
Free-to-play games are free so that the people who pay money for them have someone to play them with. -Cloquette
KingGorilla
Silverback? Please, Goldback.
Just to chime in. Economics and social dynamics play a huge role in federal decisions. Two big issues-mandatory representation of defendants and the 70's moratorium on executions were stalled for decades prior because of sound economic arguments and social dynamics.
Become my Netflix Friend
Battle.net Battletag-KingGorilla#1518
momgamer
Spawn Point
Uhhh..... Long story....
I don't think he's trying to say it should be made on economic grounds, per se. If you read the other testimony he's trying to show the court any other reason he can find to vote against Prop 8 than anti-gay prejudice. He has to.
That's because if he can't come up with other reasons, the courts have a huge problem with doing things just because people don't like them today. Defendents haven't had much luck with doing things for religous reasons only lately, either. There's some discussion about this farther up-thread.
Maybe this issue is best debated amongst the people who need to get off my lawn. - JoeBedurndurn
Steam: Momgamer
Dysplastic
iTumor
momgamer wrote:
Wouldn't people who vote against Prop 8 be pro-gay? I'm confused now.
Steam: Dysplastic / Battle.net Dysplastic#1920
Me Love You Long Time
Unfortunately Rainy Valley in BC
She just got it backwards. Do what you said and switch "against" with "for" and it makes sense.
I don't think he's trying to say it should be made on economic grounds, per se. If you read the other testimony he's trying to show the court any other reason he can find to vote for Prop 8 than anti-gay prejudice. He has to.
Final Warrior Quest - Play it for free!
Agent of Fate - Play it for free!
Nevin73
Two tickets to the gunshow
Phoenix Rev wrote:
Part 28 - Cross Examination of Mayor Sanders
Attorney for Prop. 8 brings up a paper by their star witness, Blankenhorn, that says that the purpose of marriage is to ensure that children would be raised by those who's sexual union brought them into the world. Sanders says that is still based on prejudice and that as a cop he saw plenty of biological parents that were terrible parents.
I know the struggle that gays face for equality second-hand. Not being gay, I can't know it first-hand, but my wife and I have many friends who we see is affected by this. But the statement above made by the defense insults even me and my wife. Since we can't have children, we're looking to adopt from foster care. If these zealots had their way, even our marriage would be nullified. I'm a big fan of Dan Savage and he has periodic rants on his Savage Love podcast. One of the things he always says is that first they are working to take (or limit) the rights of gays, and once they accomplish that, the rights of everyone else will be next. I'm thinking that he is right in this.
I might add, that these defendants are not very good at looking in their own back yard. If the purpose of marriage is to ensure the upbringing of biological children, then, according to their religious beliefs, Mary and Joseph should not have been married and Joseph had no business raising Jesus, as Jesus was not his biological child.
A Cigar, much like Scotch and Monogamy, is an acquired taste.
The best parenting advice I've seen:
SMBC wrote:
Your quest is to convince me that you deserve to sleep indoors.
muttonchop
My Chin is Cold
Nevin73 wrote:
Gravey wrote:
It could be worse—muttonchop could be right too.
He's right. The point was if they want to win this case, the lawyer has to prove it should be stopped for more reasons than he and his cohorts doesn't like gays.
I am an insufficiently caffeinated lifeform today. I'm going to go fix that before I say anymore of theDumb. :blush:
I see. So the plaintiffs are just pre-empting the defence by trying to give as many reasons why its good?
ThatGuy42
No, the other guy.
With the Scotch.
(Let me interject here that Rubb Ed and I spent about $3500 on our wedding including the reception we held at a restaurant. For the sake of argument, let's say that each year 18,000 couples marry. At $3500 per couple spent on a wedding, that is $63 million that is not being spent. Everyone I know said that our wedding expenses were at the low end, which they were, so the dollar amount would be much greater. I don't know of a single state or city that would beg for a $63 million dollar influx of cash to the local economy each year.)
When my sisters-in-law got married for the last time it was about $15,000. Two bridezillas each going for the most extravagant event they could muster. Now, this was their legal marriage which was technically their fifth wedding to each other; and I'm proud to say that I am the only person outside of the happy couple who was at all five of the ceremonies. Their 1st wedding was a ceremony on a float during the Gay Pride parade, 2nd wedding was a "commitment ceremony" after signing all their Domestic Partnership paperwork, 3rd wedding was a court service ceremony after Gavin Newsom had legalized it in San Francisco, 4th wedding was actually performed by Gavin Newsom in City Hall after the state had legalized marriage and then the 5th ceremony was the biggest party you have ever seen; they were really going all out. That kind of money simply can't be ignored. Remember that for 3 of those 5 weddings there were fees paid directly to California State and the City of San Francisco; the other two weddings involved consumer money spent in the city, and thus sales and use taxes and fees. I remember the San Francisco clerk's office saying that the influx of marriage license fees and court ceremony money had a significant impact on the city's budget.
It may not be a legal argument; but the economic impact on the Federal, State, and local governments shouldn't be ignored.
"Named must your fear be before conquer it you can." -Yoda
Rubb Ed
NE Portland, OR
God, this is depressing.
About the only thing I can say is that, with the invention of the Internet, the process of discovering more about the LGBT community has become easier, especially for folks who aren't in or near big cities. Doesn't make the actual process much easier, but at least there's easier access to information that lets them know they're not the only ones feeling the way they feel.
We're here. We're queer. We'll rip your f*cking face off with our fabulous claws - kaostheory
Battle.net - SpykeTDwarf#1345
I couldn't find it being mentioned here, but the Courage Campaign has been sued by ProtectMarriage dot com for the use of the logo (these were yanked from google images:
Protect marriage:
Courage Campaign's prop 8 Tracker:
note that The Prop8 trial tracker had the audacity to put a skirt on both stick figures.
"Prop8Trialtracker wrote:
We continue to be entertained by the Prop 8 attorneys simultaneously admitting that the two images of gay parents and straight parents are "substantially indistinguishable," and yet failing to grasp that that the difference between the logos illuminates the core difference between their views and ours.
Posted: January 20, 2010 10:05 PM
Temporary Vagabond
Seth wrote:
It's not a skirt, it's a KILT!
"Christianity, sprung from Jewish roots, represents the counter-movement to any morality of breeding, of race, privilege: it is the anti-Aryan religion." Friedrich Nietzsche, The Twilight of the Idols, on why Christianity should be rejected.
Hey Seth, that's actually right in the front page of Rubb Ed's link.
Bloo Driver
For Many Reasons
This comment is really interesting -
My friend Steve Hildebrand, who was Deputy Campaign Manager for Obama, asked if I could think of one politician who wakes up even once a year and thinks about pressure from the gays that he or she cannot withstand. The answer is clearly no.
It blatantly points out that political power is, more often than not, a measure of possible threat certain groups can levy against others. While I've always held the belief that full on cheerful embrace of gays is unrealistic as a society, if we can at least move the societal norm from "barely checked discomfort" to at least "nonaggressive indifference" that would be just swell. But the above points out that such indifference is really not going to get anyone anywhere.
"Once you realize what a joke everything is, being the Comedian is the only thing that makes sense."
No it wasn't, I had to click on the home page of Rubb's link to get to the story!
(which is more effort than I expect of readers)
Posted: January 21, 2010 12:04 AM
That's what I meant by front page.
Day 7 –
Part 33 – Opening Motions
Right off the bat, the morning starts off with a flurry of motions regarding discovery and the addition of witnesses. The documents under the magistrate's seal are being considered by the magistrate himself for opening, but Judge Walker says if the magistrate doesn't make his decision by noon, he will make a ruling.
Plaintiffs want to depose Ron Prentice again. Judge Walker says he has already been deposed and any questions can be answered on the stand. Plaintiffs say the testimony may be lengthy. Judge Walker says that is the way it will be then.
Part 34 – Testimony of Mr. Campbell
The trial is now turning to a very important phase. The question that is going before the court is whether or not being gay is a choice. Plaintiffs want to call Mr. Campbell, who went through gay conversion therapy and wants to testify for the plaintiffs. Defense is opposed saying his testimony is irrelevant. Judge says defense brought up the issue of people being able to change their sexual orientation in their opening statement, but the defense attorney says, "But not forced conversion." Judge reads from the opening statement and says he will allow the testimony.
The court receives notice that the magistrate is able to hear the case of the sealed documents and Judge Walker asks each team to send one attorney to the magistrate's court for hearing.
Part 35 – Depositions Viewed in Court
The plaintiffs put up the deposition of a Mr. Nathanson who was to be a defense witness, but withdrew at the same time as Tam.
In the deposition he is asked about the position on gay marriage by various medical associations. He says they favor it. He is then asked about the position of the Catholic and Southern Baptist Churches. He says they oppose it. He is specifically asked if the teachings of the Southern Baptist Convention includes hostility toward gay people. Nathanson says yes. He is asked the percentage of people who voted for Prop. 8 based on religious convictions and he says half. He is asked if over the past 50 years religion and society have been hostile to gay people. He says yes. He is asked if the attitudes by religion and society toward gays has been harmful to gays and he says yes. (Remember, Nathanson was to be a pro-Prop. 8 witness.)
He is asked the percentage of Roman Catholics who believe that homosexuality is a "disorder." He says, "not more than half." He agrees that the religions that favored Prop. 8 provided many more volunteers than the religions that opposed Prop. 8. He is asked if the teaching that homosexuality is a sin and an abomination leads to gay bashing. He says yes. He is asked if religion was used to justify hostility and prejudice against blacks and women. He says yes.
The next deposition is of a pro-Prop. 8 witness by the name of Dr. Young. She is asked if there are any cultures that accept homosexual relationships. She states the Hidra Indians, the Lakota Indians, several subcultures in West Africa, and amongst silk workers in China. She also notes that there were formal gay relationships in ancient Rome that were akin to marriage.
Young is asked if bigotry and prejudice in U.S. is substantially religious-based. She says yes. She is then asked if the Catholic Church holds the view that homosexuality is wrong. She says yes. She is asked if people get married due to love and commitment. She says yes and admits there are no studies to the contrary. She is asked about arranged marriages and she says they are in decline but have not been overtaken by love relationships. She notes that where arranged marriages have declined, the divorce rate has increased. She says gays and women have been victims of persecution by religious groups and that it should not be allowed. (Again, this is a witness for the pro-Prop. 8 people. Ouch.)
Part 36 – Testimony of Ryan Campbell
Campbell is testifying about his experience at a gay conversion center. He says he always knew he was different and realized he was gay when he was young. His parents found a note he wrote about being gay and went into hysterics, calling him names and telling him he was going to burn in Hell. He says his family was very religious which was why he was so shocked at the language his mother used with him. He said he was sent to a Christian therapist for reversal therapy and was told that gays were not Christian and they were bad people. He says he was not a bad person and only wanted to make his parents proud. He says his parents took him to another therapist that told him he was evil and had his parents come into a session and say that he was evil for being gay. But, he says that even after all of that, he was still gay.
He says his parents were referred to Focus on the Family and was put into a program of reversal therapy with a group based out of Encino, CA called NORTH (National Organization for Reversal Therapy). He says he was in the program from ages 14-16. He says his parents started putting notes in his lunchbox saying that gays were evil and he was a bad person and emotionally abused him in other ways. He says his mother was particularly abusive. She told him he was "disgusting" and said she would rather have had an abortion than have a gay son and also said that she would have preferred a Down Syndrome child or a {ableist slur} child rather than a gay child.
Campbell says he met with a Dr. Nicolosi either by phone or would fly to CA to meet with him. He says he was continually told that he was a dirty person and evil and bad. Campbell says that even after all of the "treatment" he was still gay.
Campbell says that at age 16 he surrendered himself to the Department of Human Services in Colorado Springs told them everything that had happened. The Department started separation proceedings. He said the next five years were very hard and he turned to drugs to escape.
Campbell says he now works for the Denver PD and has a good job and is active in gay rights advocacy.
Part 37 – Cross Examination of Ryan Campbell
Campbell is asked if he has ever known anyone who has changed their sexual orientation and he says he only knows of people who have publicly stated that. Attorney for Prop. 8 stresses that Campbell was forced to go and did not do so with his own consent. Campbell says that is true and that it was harmful what his parents put him through.
Attorney asks if it is Campbell's position that no one has ever gone to conversion therapy willingly. Campbell says he doesn't know everyone who went but the people who did go they did not go willingly.
Part 38 – Re-Direct of Ryan Campbell
Campbell says that when he was at NORTH, Dr. Nicolosi introduced him to a guy named Kelly who claimed to be cured. Campbell says that when the doctor left the building, Kelly said he was still gay and was headed to a gay bar that evening and said he only says he is cured to satisfy the doctor and his family. Campbell says that after he returned from CA, he lived with his family for a few months, but then left and has terminated any contact with his mother.
Part 39 – Testimony of Dr. Gary Segura
Dr. Segura works at the Stanford Center for American Democracy. He says his expertise is in data about the American electorate and political representation. He has 42 publications to his name a new book on Latinos in America that was just released.
Segura is asked if he saw the deposition of witnesses for the defense and offered rebuttals. He says he has and said came to three overall conclusions after watching the depositions: 1) Gays and lesbians are not able to protect their interests because they do not possess meaningful political power, 2) they suffer from political disabilities greater than other groups that have received suspected class protection, and 3) the opinions of Dr. Kenneth Miller are fundamentally flawed and incorrect.
Segura has a back and forth with plaintiffs' attorney regarding gay and lesbian political power. He says the power is limited and quotes a lot of James Madison on the role of majority vs. minority. He points out that Houston just elected a lesbian mayor but her partner doesn't quality for health benefits because citizens of Houston voted down a measure to grant benefits to same-sex partners.
Attorney asks Segura to talk about statutory protection for gays and lesbians and Segura puts up a map showing that 29 states do not have any statutory protections for gays and lesbians (such as Arizona). He notes that even though the Matthew Shepard case happened in Wyoming, that state still has no protections for gays and lesbians.
Segura says there are no federal laws protecting gays and lesbians from housing or employment discrimination, DOMA is in force, and gays and lesbians cannot openly serve in the military.
He is asked about protections in CA. He says there are some protections, but the history of why they were passed were more for making amends for wrongs than the actually political power of the gay and lesbian community. He notes that the initial rounds of housing and employment discrimination bills were vetoed by the CA governor. He also notes that a domestic partnership (DP) does nothing to protect a partner who travels to Las Vegas or New Orleans.
Segura says that Measure 1 in Colorado was stunning in that no other group has been the target of ballot measure as much as gays and lesbians (undocumented workers come in a very distant second). Segura says, "The initiative process has been the Waterloo of gay and lesbian politics."
He says his research shows a pattern that if the anti-gay marriage forces are losing in the courts or legislatures, they immediately turn to the ballot box to stir up emotions. He says this is particularly troubling in CA because you only need 50% + 1 vote to amend the CA Constitution.
Segura notes that only six legislators in history have every served openly in Congress. He compares that to the percent of gay people in the general population. That is a 500th of one percent. He says that no other group receives as much animus as gays and lesbians. He quotes U.S. Sen. Tom Coburn (R – Oklahoma) as saying that the greatest threat to America is gays and lesbians. Notes two other U.S. senators have compared homosexuality to bestiality. Segura says gays and lesbians are not sufficiently represented in any jurisdiction to affect outcomes.
Segura is questioned about various demographics and says that gays and lesbians are looked down upon more than any other minority group. He says the issue often centers around the fact that people are repulsed by same sex sex. He says that during the civil rights movement, every religious denomination except for the Southern Baptists were in favor of civil rights. He says he cannot think of a more powerful anti-gay force than religion and that fact has particularly helped the evangelical community because they are allying around the one issue and becoming more powerful.
Segura then talks about hate crime statistics and is asked his opinion about the claim by Prop. 8 supporters in a video admitted into evidence that they were actually the ones who were targeted for hate crimes, not gays and lesbians. Segura says he was confused by the claim (aren't we all?) and says the vandalism was horrible, but that he isn't sure it was a hate crime.
Segura talks about the affects of living a life in the closet and also mentions the stereotypes of gay men and lesbians. He says most people think gays and lesbians only live in big cities, all have advance degrees and they have lots of disposable income to spend. He says with this perception, people often believe that gays and lesbians don't need protection.
Segura also says that for the last 25 years there has been a general ban on discussing homosexuality in health classes, no funding for homo-erotic art, and a ban on discussing same sex sex for prevention of disease. He is asked if the Prop. 8 campaign helped contribute to this kind of censorship and he notes the ad where a little girl goes home and says she was told she could marry a princess. Segura says the message Prop. 8 sent was that homosexuality cannot be talked about positively or even neutrally because it is a bad thing.
Attorney for plaintiffs asks if allies aren't political power. Segura says they are helpful but not always trustworthy. He notes that DADT and DOMA were both passed with a Democratic president in office. He also mentions that Obama has not honored the ruling of the 9th circuit Court of Appeals that requires the federal government to provide DP benefits to one of their court staff.
The topic then turns to the involvement of the LDS church in the Prop. 8 campaign. Plaintiffs introduce document titled, "LDS Church Takes Active Role in Supporting Prop. 8." Segura says the LDS president sent a letter to all CA LDS leaders telling them to take a stand for Prop. 8, something which is very rare in the LDS Church. Segura says the LDS Church provided funds and volunteers. He also notes that on June 17, 2008, Jim Garlow, the senior pastor at Skyline Church in San Diego manages to get 1700 pastors across the state to participate in a kickoff for an aggressive campaign in favor of Prop. 8. He calls that an enviable number.
Part 40 – More Procedural Motions
Before the lunch break, Judge Walker is approached by attorneys for Garland and McPherson, two pastors who were supposed to be witnesses for the defense, say that they want an order of protection for the sermons and speeches the pastors gave so they cannot be admitted into evidence or displayed in court citing First Amendment protections. Judge Walker refers the motion to the Magistrate.
The court also hears the magistrate's ruling which is that documents from one of the witness is outside of his deposition so must remain under seal, but the documents of the other three witnesses will be unsealed and allowed to be admitted into evidence if Judge Walker allows.
Part 41 – Continued testimony of Dr. Segura
Attorneys for plaintiffs offer documents that show the heavy involvement of the LDS and Catholic Churches in the Prop. 8 campaign and also the involvement of Mr. Pugno, who is one of the attorneys for the defense.
There is considerable back and forth about a document that shows the LDS and the Catholic Churches were working in tandem to fund and coordinate efforts to pass Prop. 8. At every step of the way, Prop. 8 attorneys are trying to keep the documents from being admitted or read. Judge Walker overrules them and attorneys for plaintiffs read them into the record. At one point, Pugno says that one of the witnesses pulled the document from a shoebox because he was order to by the courts proving that it was privileged information. (Um... seems to me it proves that the Prop. 8 people never wanted to have these documents see the light of day. Ever.)
Attorney Boutrous reads the shoebox letter which states that the LDS was not to take a lead in the Prop. 8 campaign, but was to work through ProtectMarriage.com and work to garner $50 million through individual donations. Segura says he was shocked at the document because in his studies he has never seen this level of coordination by churches in a political campaign. Segura recites the amount of participation by the Catholic and LDS churches alone. Notes that gays and lesbians do not have that kind of political muscle.
Segura is asked about gays in relations to African Americans and women. Segura notes that there were constitutional protections for both groups, which gays and lesbians don't have.
Segura is then asked about the statements by Dr. Miller (another Prop. 8 witness that dropped out of the case). He says that Miller has absolutely no idea what he was talking about and clearly has no knowledge about the history of gay history. He notes that Miller specifically stated that he would be shocked to find out if the majority of states don't have protections for gays and lesbians. (29 don't; Miller is shocked, I guess.) Miller also says that just because gays and lesbians don't have constitutional and civil protections doesn't mean they don't have political might. He did note that Miller said that ballot initiatives preventing gay marriage were a bad idea.
Part 42 - Cross Examination of Dr. Segura
Attorney Thompson for the defense asks Segura a series of questions about the power of gays and lesbians. Thompson cites the mayor in Houston, articles by columnists talking about the power of gays and lesbians, mentions that five states have gay marriage so that means gays have power, etc. Segura says that is not the case that the occasional win here and there doesn't mean a group has political power. Thompson turns to the power of money. He notes that the No on 8 campaign raised $43 million while the Yes on 8 raised $40 million and asks Segura if that doesn't indicate gays have power (Uh, the gays lost that one, Mr. Thompson.)
Thompson asks Segura about a variety of sources of power for the LGBT community including Pelosi and Obama. Segura says they are unreliable allies. Thompson asks if getting the travel ban on people infected with HIV isn't a source of power for the LGBT community. Segura says no, it isn't, because scientists across the board said the travel ban was silly.
Thompson plays a speech from Obama where he lays out his agenda for gay rights. He asks Segura if Obama isn't a powerful ally. Segura says he is an ally that cannot be counted on. Segura notes that Obama did not follow through with DOMA, DADT and ENDA and the only major accomplishment was the hate crimes legislation. Thompson asks if Sen. Diane Feinstein is an ally. Segura says Feinstein is a very soft ally that can't be counted on. Thompson asks if the ACLU, newspaper editorial boards and the like are allies. Segura gives a very qualified yes. Thompson asks more and more about potential allies. Segura suggests that the only reliable allies gays and lesbians have in CA is Sen. Boxer and the ACLU.
Thompson shows that UNITE, a restaurant union, donated $1.7 million to the No on 8 campaign and $0 to Yes on 8. Wonders if they are a reliable ally. Segura says he doesn't know how the union members actually voted, so he can't say.
Judge Walker asks about timing of witnesses. Plaintiffs say they will wrap up their case on Thursday or Friday. Defense says they will have Dr. Miller ready to testify followed by Dr. Tam. (So, Tam changed his mind, it seems, probably because the magistrate unsealed his documents).
End of Day 7.
FSeven
A Wise man once said...
Dirty Jersey
While I'm glad that Mayor Sanders did a complete 180 on his feelings about gay marriage, I have to say that I despise people like him and those racists who have zero hour conversions and want to be forgiven for their heinous acts.
The fact that the only time these people realize they were in the wrong is when it directly affects their lives or when they have a vested interest in it is complete and utter bullsh*t.
I guess it's cool that even if it is in their twilight years people can change and realize the error of their past ways, but damn...how about doing a little more thinking at an earlier stage in your life? One foot in the grave or your own offspring coming out of the closet and NOW you have an epiphany? If there IS a God, I hope he gets downright Old Testament on your sorry asses.
PSN: FSeven | Battle.net: FSeven#1325
I think that's a little harsh, FSeven -- although in retrospect the concept of divine grace has been a contention among us before. here's where I find fault in your post:
I don't see how that's BS at all. Maybe you have a more optmistic view of the human condition than I do, but based on my personal experience and my experience with others, reading about stereotypes in a textbook doesn't do dick; running into direct contradictions of stereotypes in one's personal life is what changes people's minds. I was much, much more of a close minded person 15 years ago than I am now (and I'm still pretty close minded). It wasn't just a steady diet of ramen noodles or liberal lectures at Kalamazoo College that swayed me -- it was meeting people who directly confronted stereotypes that I carried with me that changed me.
I don't think it's fair to blast Mayor Sanders for changing his stance on gay marriage after he found out his daughter was gay. It's certainly much more respectable than Dick Cheney's stance on the issue.
Farscry
Bilge Cat
I have to 100% back Seth's comment here too. I was once pretty narrow-minded in my views on a lot of things, and the watershed moments that started my process of questioning a lot of those views were all about getting to know people personally who were living contradictions of my xenophobic views.
Gorilla.800.lbs
Optimus Primate
Looks like Day 7 wasn't a good day for Prop 8 team.
P.S. although I don't understand how the text of a sermon can not be admitted as an evidence on the First Amendment grounds. Following that logic, discovery of ANY kind of statement can successfully be thwarted. Or am I not understanding something properly?
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Someone will need to explain this one to me. Are these pastors effectively saying "you can't repeat what I said because the First Amendment protects me?" No one is prosecuting these pastors for what they said, correct (just using it as a cited example)?
weswilson
I was partially homophobic until a friend of mine made a move on me in my sleep. While it was a total asshole move on his part, it did make me wonder what the real difference was between that guy making a move on me and a totally unattractive woman making a move on me. Once I started looking at guys as really, really ugly women, my opinion of the entire situation changed.
Wes Wilson: http://weswilson.com
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Bloo Driver wrote:
Correct. They are not being prosecuted. The plaintiffs are trying to demonstrate that the Prop. 8 campaign was not simply about reserving the term "marriage" for heterosexual couples (which is what the Prop. 8 side is maintaining).
The pastors are grasping at straws and determined to keep their homophobic statements out of the court proceedings.
As a pastor and preacher, my church was open to all and my sermons were public. They were often copied and put into the church bulletin the following week and openly distributed to any person who attend services. To claim that they are private documents and not meant for public consumption is garbage.
I would be shocked if the magistrate sealed the documents on First Amendment grounds.
Bullion Cube
Nu Suoop Fur Yuoo!
weswilson wrote:
All porn is Lesbian porn in weswilson's world.
FSeven wrote: Chumpy_McChump wrote:
pPunc"tuat,,ion is: har'd!
So am I after seeing how readily you throw convention and rules out the window you big hunk of rebellious man love, you.
I'm like the Nate Silver of grunge - Podunk
Kehama
I'm Allergic To People
Far, Far Away
That's the part that got me. I had assumed sermons were considered public speech and that there would be no issue admitting them into court. As other said, the pastors are not on trial, it would simply be used toward the credibility of the witnesses. How the 1st ammendment comes into pay I have no idea.
I can see and understand your view Seth. I have a general loathing of most of humanity's inability to use their brain. We have all this pandering about "personal responsibility" in politics and indeed that seems to be the ethos of half this country, yet the very people pushing that view are often the ones who rely on stereotypes and form their opinions about people unlike themselves through a distinct lack of personal experience. Personal responsibility for thee but not for me, if you will.
running into direct contradictions of stereotypes in one's personal life is what changes people's minds.
That's the proof of it. I think it's completely ass backwards for people to judge an entire group of people based on a negative stereotype and only consider changing that through personal experience. It's judging the proverbial book by it's cover, a notion with longstanding theological grounding and a concept that although most of us learn from an early age we seldom actually put into practice. Oh we love to regurgitate it though and aim it at others. I understand that's basic human nature and will never likely change on a grand societal scale and that my view of it is probably idealistic but I just can't grasp the logic of it.
The sad truth is that more often than not, when someone who judges a group of people based on a stereotype has a personal experience that runs contrary to that stereotype, very rarely does one change their entire view of that group of people. Instead, people tend to carve out exceptions to their rules, which again are based on stereotypes and a distinct lack of personal experience. Even more often though, when met with evidence that points to the contrary, instead of changing their own perception they just doubt the evidence. Such as your textbook comment - reading it doesn't do dick. And that's why people, because of 1 action committed by 19 dudes, view anyone who is Muslim or looks Arabic as a terrorist despite the fact that the US has had over 140 acts of terrorism committed by, according to FBI data, white males who self-identified as Christian in the past 40 years yet don't view white Christian males by and large as terrorists. That's why people can view blacks as violent criminals despite the fact that, according to the DoJ, 36 million African-Americans are law abiding citizens and less than 1 million are criminals. Judging the character of a group of people based on the actions of 1 million max of it's members rather than the inactions of the other 36 million? It's a complete lack of personal experience and a total disregard for facts. Yet instead of taking that lack of experience as a basis for not assuming the traits and behavior of a group of people and perhaps using it as motivation to actually find out what these people are like, humans take the lowest common denominator and use that to shoebox groups of people until something comes along which challenges that belief. Again - totally ass backwards in my opinion and while I understand it, is a logic that I can't fathom or even feel that my brain could process properly without at some point having the thought "this is complete bullsh*t".
Perhaps, ironically, I'm basing my feelings on a stereotype - that most people fail to apply common sense or basic logic to these matters or at the very least fail to practice what they preach ("Don't judge a book by it's cover!" and demands for others to accept personal responsibility) - but I've only seen evidence supporting my view.
To be honest Seth, I think I have a rather bleakly Carlin-esque view of humanity. I think we'll wipe ourselves out long before we ever get this stuff right.
And wes...wow...I'm surprised an experience like that wouldn't have further entrenched you in homophobia.
I can see where you're coming from, FSeven, but I think part of the problem is that people don't always realize that a stereotype is a stereotype. If you were raised in an environment that perpetuates a stereotype, and never see any evidence to the contrary, then why would you doubt it? It's like doubting gravity. It's blatantly obvious from the outside looking in, but for the other guy that stereotype is just another fundamental truth. It's true that we should always strive to question our own beliefs, but sometimes it's hard to know which ones to question. We can't spend all day questioning everything we know, so at some point we have to compromise and accept certain statements as fact.
People who see evidence that contradicts a stereotype, and still refuse to question that stereotype are definitely bad people. People who instead choose to reconsider their opinions may not necessarily be good people, but at least they're trying to be.