text:
Leigh VanHandel
Music Theory & Music Cognition
Ask Dr. Van
Associate Professor of Music Theory
leigh.vanhandel [at] ubc [dot] ca
[Please contact me if you're sending me something!]
Fall 2020– : Associate Professor, University of British Columbia
2011–2020: Associate Professor, Michigan State University
Courtesy appointment in Cognitive Science/Psychology
Co-director, Music Cognition Certificate Program
2005–2011: Assistant Professor, Michigan State University
2002–2005: Visiting Assistant Professor, University of Oregon
2001–2002: Visiting Assistant Professor, University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
2005: Ph.D. in Music Theory and Acoustics, Stanford University
1994: Masters of Arts in Music Theory, State University of New York at Stony Brook
1992: Bachelor of Arts in Music Theory, The Ohio State University
Awards, Scholarships and Grants
2019: Michigan State University, undergraduate research assistant support
2019: Society for Music Theory Publication Subvention grant for The Routledge Companion to Music Theory Pedagogy
2018: MSU Humanities and Arts Research Program
2015: Vice Provost for Research and Graduate Studies Research Grant Leave
2014: Michigan State University Humanities and Arts Research Program
2009: Vice Provost for Libraries, Computing and Technology Special Research Grant
2007: Vice President for Research and Graduate Studies Special Research Grant
2007: MSU Lilly Teaching Fellowship Program
2005: MSU IRGP Grant
2003: Stanford Dissertation Research Support Grant, Stanford University
VanHandel, L. (forthcoming 2021) nPVI as a musicological tool. In The Oxford Handbook of Music and Corpus Studies, ed. by Daniel Shanahan, Ashley Burgoyne, and Ian Quinn.
VanHandel, L. (2020) Music theory and working memory. In The Routledge Companion to Music Theory Pedagogy, Routledge Press.
VanHandel, L. (ed.) (2020) The Routledge Companion to Music Theory Pedagogy, Routledge Press.
VanHandel, L. (2019–)Ask Dr. Van – an ongoing public music theory/music cognition project in which I answer music theory and music cognition questions from students who find me on the internet. Available at www.askdrvan.org.
Gotham, M., Jonas, P., Bower, B., Bosworth, W., Rootham, D., and VanHandel, L. (2018) Scores of Scores: an OpenScore project to encode and share sheet music. In Proceedings of the 5th International Conference on Digital Libraries for Musicology.
VanHandel, L., Drotos, A., and McAuley, D. (2018) Relation between melodic characteristics and tempo determination. In Proceedings of the International Conference on Music Perception and Cognition/European Society for the Cognition of Music.
Lambrecht, L. and VanHandel, L. (2018) The perception of stable tones in polytonal structures. In Proceedings of the International Conference on Music Perception and Cognition/European Society for the Cognition of Music.
Jonker, A., and VanHandel, L. (2018) Human perception of melodic similarity in theme and variation pieces. In Proceedings of the International Conference on Music Perception and Cognition/European Society for the Cognition of Music.
VanHandel, L. (2018) Relation between melodic characteristics and tempo determination. In Proceedings of the International Conference on Music Perception and Cognition/European Society for the Cognition of Music.
VanHandel, L. (2016) The war of the Romantics: An alternate hypothesis using nPVI for the quantitative anthropology of music. Empirical Musicology Review, Vol. 11, No. 2.
VanHandel, L. (2014) Articles in Thomson, W.F. (Ed), Music in the Social and Behavioral Sciences: An Encylopedia. (Articles: Chords. Modulation. Rules of voice-leading. Scales.) Sage Publications Inc., New York.
Temperley, D. and VanHandel, L., Eds. (2013) Special Issues on Corpus Methods. Music Perception, Vol. 31/1, September 2013, and Vol. 31/3, January 2014. [This is a two volume series focusing on corpus methods in music cognition and perception. Temperley and I served as co-editors of the two volumes.]
VanHandel, L. and Temperley, D. (2014) Introduction to the Second Special Issue on Corpus Methods. Music Perception, Vol. 31/3, February 2014.
Temperley, D. and VanHandel, L. (2013) Introduction to the Special Issues on Corpus Methods. Music Perception, Vol. 31/1, September 2013.
VanHandel, L. (2013) Music Theory Skill Builder: An online musical fundamentals environment. Oxford University Press.
VanHandel, L. (2012) What can music theory pedagogy learn from mathematics pedagogy? Journal of Music Theory Pedagogy, Vol. 26.
VanHandel, L. and M. Callahan. (2012) The role of phrase location in key identification by pitch class distribution. In E. Cambouropoulos, C. Tsougras, K. Mavromatis, K. Pastiadis (Eds.), Proceedings of ICMPC-ESCOM 12 (Thessaloniki, Greece).
VanHandel, L. (2012) Using computer-based music fundamentals drills to reinforce learning with adaptive strategies. Tehnologii Informatice si de comunicatie in domeniul muzica (Information, Communication and Technology in Musical Fields. Music Academy Gheorghe Dima, Romania.
VanHandel, L. (2011) Supplemental electronic and online material for 2nd edition of Clendinning/Marvin, The Musician's Guide to Theory and Analysis. Contracted by W.W. Norton & Company.
VanHandel, L. and T. Song. (2010) The role of meter in compositional style in 19th century French and German art song. Journal of New Music Research, 39(1), 1-11.
VanHandel, L., J. Wakefield, and W. Wilkins. (2011) Towards the role of working memory in pitch processing in language and music. In J. Hawkins, I. Cross, M. Rohrmeier and P. Rebuschat (Eds.), Language and Music as Cognitive Systems. Oxford: Oxford University Press.
VanHandel, L. (2009) National metrical types in nineteenth century art song. Empirical Musicology Review, 4(4), 134-145.
VanHandel, L. and B. Rhodes. (2009) mfp: An online music fundamentals environment. Software produced in conjunction with Michigan State University's Virtual University Design and Technology group, licensed by Oxford University Press.
VanHandel, L. and T. Song (2009) Influence of Linguistic Rhythm on Individual Compositional Style in 19th Century French and German Art Song. In Proceedings of ESCOM 2009: 7th Triennial Conference of the European Society for the Cognitive Sciences of Music, Jyväskylä, Finland, 2009. (download)
VanHandel, L. (2007) Supplemental electronic and online material for Clendinning/Marvin, The Musician's Guide to Theory and Analysis. Online and supplemental materials for the Clendinning/Marvin textbook series, W.W. Norton & Company. Electronic resource available online from W.W. Norton.
VanHandel, L. (2006) Trends in/over time: Rhythm in speech and music in 19th century art song. In Proceedings of the 9th International Conference on Music and Perception and Cognition. Bologna, Italy: Bononia University Press, 2006.
VanHandel, L. (2006) Trends in/over time: Rhythm in speech and musical melody in 19th century art song. In SMC06: Third Sound and Music Computing Conference Proceedings. Marseille, France: GMEM – Centre National de Creation Musicale, 2006.
Larson, S., and L. VanHandel. (2005) Measuring Musical Forces, Music Perception Vol. 23, No. 2, pp. 119-136.
VanHandel, L. (1995) Inherent Primitivism in Morton Subotnick's All My Hummingbirds Have Alibis. Proceedings of the McGill Graduate Theory Conference (June 1995), and in Music Research Forum, vol. X (August 1995).
VanHandel, L. (1994) From Ghost Score to CD-ROM: the Interactive Music of Morton Subotnick (Von "Geister-Partituren" zur CD-ROM: Die interaktive Musik von Morton Subotnick). Positionen: Beiträge zur neuen Musik, vol. 21 (November 1994).
Conference Presentations:
Karpinski's Aural Skills Acquisition and cognition: Twenty years later
11/20 Society for Music Theory (virtual conference)
Music, memory, and cognition
11/19 Joint session, "Intersections of Music, Disability, and Cognition," Music and Disability and Music Cognition Interest Groups, Society for Music Theory, Columbus, OH
I is for Impostor
11/19 Informatics Interest Group meeting, Society for Music Theory, Columbus OH
Effects of pitch characteristics on perceived musical tempo
6/19 17th Rhythm Production and Perception Workshop (RPPW), presented by Drotos, A., Vroegop, B., Eberle, A., Traverse City, MI
Pay attention to memory: strategies for assisting students with memory deficits
5/19 Pedagogy into Practice 2019, Santa Barbara, CA
How fast should this melody go? Melodic cues for tempo determination
5/19 Music Theory Midwest, Cincinnati, OH
Some of us still worry!
11/18 Music Cognition Interest Group Meeting, Society for Music Theory, San Antonio, TX
Theory fundamentals and working memory
11/18 Society for Music Theory, San Antonio, TX
Scores of scores: an OpenScore project to liberate sheet music and musical file formats
9/18 5th International Conference on Digital Libraries for Musicology, Paris, FR (presented by Mark Gotham)
Relation between melodic characteristics and tempo determination
7/18 International Conference on Music Perception and Cognition (ICMPC), Montreal, CA
Ask a theorist: historically informed corpus studies
6/18 Scores of Scores: Possibilities and Pitfalls with Musical Corpora, Cambridge, UK
Working memory and music theory pedagogy
5/18 Music Theory Midwest, London ON, CA
Melodic characteristics and tempo determination
8/17 Society for Music Perception and Cognition, San Diego, CA
Musical factors influencing tempo determination
7/16 International Conference on Music Perception and Cognition (ICMPC), San Francisco, CA
An investigation of tempo determination
1/16 Northeast Music Cognition Group (NEMCOG), Cambridge MA
Empirical research for music theorists – a workshop with Joshua Albrecht, Michael Schutz, and Daniel Shanahan
11/15 Society for Music Theory, St. Louis, MO
Voice-leading distribution and judgments of distance between tetrachords (joint authored with Joseph Vander Stel)
8/13 Society for Music Perception and Cognition, Toronto, Canada
What can music theory pedagogy learn from mathematics pedagogy?
6/13 MACRO Analysis Conference, Madison, WI
What happens at the beginning should stay at the beginning: The role of beginnings, middles, and ends in key-finding models
11/12 Society for Music Theory, New Orleans, LA
The role of phrase location in key identification by pitch class distribution
7/12 12th International Conference on Music Perception and Cognition and 8th Triennial Conference of the European Society for the Cognitive Sciences of Music, Thessaloniki, Greece
Helping DMA students fill a niche: the Masters degree in music theory pedagogy (a panel presentation with Michael Callahan and Bruce Taggart)
10/11 College Music Society, Richmond, VA
Rhythm and meter as compositional 'footprints' in 19th century art songs
7/11 13th International Rhythm Perception and Production Workshop, Max Planck Institute for Human Cognitive and Brain Sciences, Leipzig, Germany
4/11 Dutch Society for Music Theory, Enschede, Netherlands
National metrical types in nineteenth century art song
5/10 Music Theory Midwest, Oxford, OH
11/10 Society for Music Theory National Conference, Indianapolis, IN
Basic musicianship through technology
9/10 College Music Society, Minneapolis, MN
Technology in the music theory pedagogy classroom: incorporation and results
9/10 Association for Technology in Music Instruction (ATMI), Minneapolis, MN
mfp: An online music theory fundamentals learning environment
10/09 Association for Technology in Music Instruction, Portland OR
Incorporating keyboard-oriented mastery learning into the music theory curriculum: two studies
10/09 College Music Society, Portland OR (pdf of poster)
Influence of linguistic rhythm on individual compositional style in 19th century French and German art song
8/09 7th Triennial Conference of the European Society for the Cognitive Sciences of Music, Jyväskylä, Finland
5/09 Music Theory Midwest, Minneapolis, MN
'Above all, nothing which resembles singing': Rousseau and changing compositional styles in 19th century French art song
8/07 8th Conference of the Society for Music Perception and Cognition, Montreal, CA
Rethinking pitch in language and music
5/07 Language and Music as Cognitive Systems, Cambridge, UK
What rhythm Goethe? A study of poet influence on art song rhythm
2/07 Music and the Written Word: A Symposium of Research in Music Theory and Musicology, Bloomington, IN
Trends in/over time: Rhythm in speech and melody in 19th century art song
11/06 Society for Music Theory, Los Angeles, CA
How 'German' is Schumann? A quantitative analysis of compositional style
9/06 Schumann Perspectives: A View Across the Disciplines, Texas Tech University, Lubbock, TX
Trends in/over time: Rhythm in speech and musical melody in 19th century art songs
2/06 The Intersection of Music and Poetry Symposium, Depauw University, Greencastle, IN
5/06 Music Theory Midwest, Muncie, IN
5/06 SMC06: Sound and Music Computing Conference, Marseilles, France
8/06 9th International Conference on Music Perception and Cognition, Bologna, Italy
The Classic(al) Dada Work: Kurt Schwitters' Ursonate
4/02 West Coast Conference for Music Theory and Analysis, Victoria BC
Measuring Musical Forces
11/00 Society for Music Theory/Society for Music Perception and Cognition joint panel Art Meets Science: Collaboration Between Music Theorists and Music Psychologists, at the Musical Intersections conference, Toronto, Canada
Potential Applications of Intonational Analysis to Musical Analysis
10/01 University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign Composer's Forum, Urbana IL
3/00 University of New Mexico Composer's Symposium, Albuquerque NM
8/99 Society for Music Perception and Cognition, Chicago IL
Categorical Perception, Ordering Effect, and Interval Boundaries
5/99 CCRMA Affiliates Meeting, Stanford CA
4/99 WCCMTA/RMSMT Joint Meeting, Stanford CA (Outstanding Graduate Student Paper Award)
Composition and Collage: Morton Subotnick's The Key to Songs
4/98 Music Theory Society of New York State, New York NY
3/97 Rocky Mountain Society for Music Theory, Boulder CO
2/97 CCRMA Colloquium Series, Stanford CA
5/96 Music Theory Midwest, Kalamazoo MI (Honorable Mention, Arthur J. Komar Best Student Paper Award)
Inherent Primitivism in Morton Subotnick's All My Hummingbirds Have Alibis
4/96 Rocky Mountain Society for Music Theory, Tucson AZ
4/96 West Coast Conference for Music Theory and Analysis, Davis CA
3/95 McGill Graduate Theory Conference, Montreal, Canada
5/94 Music Theory Midwest Conference, Bloomington IN
Invited Presentations:
Keynote speaker, Future Directions of Music Cognition
5/20 (postponed due to COVID-19) Invited keynote speaker, Ohio State University, Columbus OH
Invited speaker, MIDAS Computational Music Theory Symposium
4/20 (postponed due to COVID-19) Invited speaker, University of Michigan, Ann Arbor MI
Faculty Fellow, Workshop in Music Theory Pedagogy (five keynote lectures)
6/19 University of Massachusetts, Amherst MA
Working memory and music theory fundamentals
5/19 Invited Speaker, UC Santa Barbara, Santa Barbara CA
Melodic influences on tempo determination
5/19 Invited Speaker, Center for Computer Research in Music and Acoustics, Stanford University, Stanford, CA
3/19 Invited Speaker, Music, Cognition and the Brain Speaker Series, University of Western Ontario, Ontario Canada
Rhythm and its role in the 'War of the Romantics'
9/18 Invited speaker, Interdisciplinary Approaches to Music and Language, East Lansing MI
Melody, tempo, and the auditory kappa effect
6/18 Invited speaker, Centre for Music and Science, University of Cambridge, Cambridge UK
"I don't belong here": Impostor syndrome in (and out) of the academy
2/17 Invited speaker, Women in Music Lecture Series, East Lansing, MI
Working memory in the music theory fundamentals classroom
9/16 Invited keynote speaker, Oklahoma Music Theory Roundtable, Stillwater OK
Working memory in the music theory classroom
4/16 Invited speaker, Music and the Mind Series, Bates College, Lewiston ME
Memory, attention, and music theory pedagogy
3/16 McGill Doctoral Colloquium Series, Montreal QC, CA
Conceptual and procedural knowledge in math and music theory
11/14 Invited speaker, Musicology Lecture Series, Youngstown State University, Youngstown OH
Rhythm and meter as a compositional fingerprint
4/11 Invited panel participant/speaker at McGill's Distinguished Lecture Series, Montreal, Canada
The role of meter in compositional style in 19th century French and German art song
10/10 Featured speaker for the Voices in (e)motion Conference, Feldkirch, Austria
8/07 The University of Edinburgh/Queen's University International Interdisciplinary Summer Workshop on Music, Language and Movement, East Sussex, UK
Setting a Menu to Music: Rhythm and Melody in 19th–century Art Songs
5/06 University of Iowa Colloquium Series, Iowa City, IA
As guitarras renascem na quaratena (Guitars are reborn in quarantine), Veja (Brazil), print edition 2709, October 14, 2020. Online edition: October 9, 2020.
https://veja.abril.com.br/cultura/as-guitarras-renascem-na-quarentena/
Coronavirus: Musicians offering livestreams, use virtual tip jars as more people turn to music during COVID-19 pandemic, March 27, 2020, MassLive.com
https://www.masslive.com/coronavirus/2020/03/coronavirus-musicians-offering-livestreams-use-virtual-tip-jars-as-more-people-turn-to-music-during-covid-19-pandemic.html
The perfect productivity playlist, according to brain science: How to pick the right music to boost your focus, motivation, and mood, November 1, 2019, Forge.
https://forge.medium.com/the-perfect-productivity-playlist-according-to-brain-science-975fd9876575
Boards, invited, and elected positions:
2019–present: Chair (elected), Music Theory Pedagogy Interest Group, Society for Music Theory
2019: Faculty Fellow, Workshop in Music Theory Pedagogy, U Mass Amherst
2019–present: Editorial Board, Music Perception
2018–present: Advanced Placement Music Theory Development Committee
2018–present: Executive Board (elected), Society for Music Theory
2017–2020: Editorial Board, Music Theory Spectrum
2016: Curriculum consultant, Bates College, Lewiston ME
2012–2014 Editorial Board, Music Theory Online
2012–2014 Executive Board (elected), Society for Music Perception and Cognition
2011–2015 Editorial Board, Journal of Music History Pedagogy
Program committee activities:
2019 Society for Music Perception and Cognition
2018 International Society for Music Information Retrieval
2018 International Conference on Music Perception and Cognition
2014 Society for Music Theory
2013 Midwest Cognition Symposium
2006 Music Theory Society of New York State
2002 CSW/SMT-Jazz Special Session, "Women in Jazz: Roles and Voices"
Service to professional societies:
2018 Chair, Nominations Committee, Music Theory Midwest
2017 Arthur J. Komar Student Paper Award Committee, Music Theory Midwest
2011–2015 Chair, Publications Committee, Music Theory Midwest
2009–2011 Member, Publications Committee, Music Theory Midwest
2009–2012 Area I Representative to the Executive Board, Music Theory Midwest
2005–2009 Web manager, Society for Music Theory
2003–2005 Networking Committee, Society for Music Theory
2002–2005 Secretary/Treasurer, West Coast Conference for Music Theory and Analysis
2000–2005 Member and Web Goddess, Committee on the Status of Women, Society for Music Theory
Peer reviewer:
Music Theory Online
Music Theory Spectrum
Psychology of Music
Music Perception
Musicae Scientiae
Auditory Perception and Cognition
Applied Cognitive Psychology
Psychomusicology: Music, Mind and Brain
Empirical Musicology Review
Journal of New Music Research
Journal of Music History Pedagogy
STM–Online (Journal for the Swedish Musicological Society)
ReCUR (MSU's Undergraduate Research and Creative Arts Journal)
Routledge Press book reviewer
Oxford University Press textbook reviewer
W.W. Norton Press textbook reviewer
Proudly powered by WordPress Theme: Serene by Elegant Themes.
Spam prevention powered by Akismet

redpajama_set_name: RedPajamaCommonCrawl


Left4dead2 is one of the best games I've played. It has good effects and sounds. One epic effect is when you melee zombie with a machete, The blood from it sprays onto your screen. The graphics are just amazing.
The game is about 4 survivors that were left alone when an infection hit. The infection infected everyone except for them and the military. The military is looking for anyone who may still be alive. Your mission is to get saved, but it isn't easy. There are zombies wandering everywhere. You travel to checkpoints and try to get picked up.
The singleplayer campaign is epic with the sound when a huge horde of zombies are going to aproach. In the campaign, Some levels will need you to hold onto a building or a rooftop until rescue arrives.
There are a few types of zombies.
The horde – Normal zombies that run fast but has little damage and effect.
The smoker – This is a dangerous zombie. He has a very long tongue that grabs you and pulls you to him. While he is pulling you, you will lose health. Eventually, he will grab you and start to slash you. He can be killed by a teammate so don't be to worried if you get tangled in one.
The Tank – The most feared zombie. He is mutated and has no special power. His only way is brute force. He slashes people and make them fly into the air. He can also lift pieces of concrete and throw it at you.
The spitter – Just like the charger, the name tells it all. It spits green goo that hurts you if you step on it.
The jockey – This zombie jumps onto your head and blinds you. It can drive you anywhere it wants you to go and it hurts you in the process.
Multiplayer is just like the campaign. except you can either be the zombie or the survivor. This is very interesting because you can see the zombie point of view. This is very addictive because you can feel what its like to charge into people, spit on them and other stuff. It is very hard for the survivors though, because now that the "special" zombies aren't controlled by computers, they will have better strategies.
I reconmmend this game to anyone who likes to kill zombies and people who can take surprises.
We do not take responsibility of any heart attacks and crying. This is not a game for little kids!


Discussion in 'Web & Email' started by helpseeker, Jul 16, 2006.
I'm running Win98SE and currently use Netscape 7.0 as my browser,and want to upgrade to version 8.1. All my mail resides in a folder on my computer. What do I have to do to keep this mail when I uninstall v7.0 and install v8.1? Also, do I have to uninstall the old version, or will the new one just install over it?
Site does not say anything about 8.1 but info should be the same. At less on what you need to back up will be the same.
I know there are two ways to do a uninstall. You will be asked if you just want to remove the profile from the profile manager or remover the profile. Where removing the profile will delete the profile.
So what ever way you go do a back up of your profile first because no matter what way you go your have a copy to get things back.
But read up on doing a clean install.
It will tell you what is where on your PC and what to back up.
Good though that you are upgrading as the Netscape 7.x browsers are now obsolete, bug ridden, and have many security vulnerabilities.
If you are dead set on having a suite, which includes Mail and Composer, then upgrade to SeaMonkey 1.0.2. You will see little to no difference in the appearance, or settings of the browser, and it is oh so much faster, secure, and up to date!
My preference is Firefox 1.5.0.4, a standalone browser, and Thunderbird 1.5.0.4, a standalone Mail Client, both of which are the star attraction of Mozilla.
More than you ever wanted to know... and no, I don't work for Mozilla.org!
Do I need to uninstall Netscape 7, or just ignore it?
If I install Firefox or SeaMonkey, will I still be able to access my old (Netscape) mail residing on my computer?
Do you know if Firefox or SeaMonkey have the Password Manager feature that Netscape has?
1. Do I need to uninstall Netscape 7, or just ignore it?
2. If I install Firefox or SeaMonkey, will I still be able to access my old (Netscape) mail residing on my computer?
3. Do you know if Firefox or SeaMonkey have the Password Manager feature that Netscape has?
Do NOT share profiles between SeaMonkey and Netscape 7. SeaMonkey and Netscape 7 share the same profile registry and directory. However, a profile created by one may be incompatible with another. SeaMonkey will automatically use your Netscape 7 profile unless you have multiple profiles, in which case SeaMonkey prompts you to choose a profile to migrate.
To avoid accidentally opening SeaMonkey with your Netscape profile, create a new, extra profile using your Netscape's Profile Manager before installing SeaMonkey. When you start SeaMonkey, the Profile Manager will appear, and you can select the new Profile. Then you will need to manually copy Mail files, Address Book, Bookmarks, etc., from the Netscape Profile.
This will not be a problem with Fx and TB, as they have their separate Profiles folder.
2. Are you talking about archived mail, if not, remember that TB will automatically migrate all mail in NS 7.
Read the SeaMonkey Release Notes, which are full of install information. The same is true for Firefox, and Thunderbird.
Hey good to see you drop by Ramona.
Thanks for helping out here too.
Your so welcome and you know I always like your great help that so many of us can use.


Project management with our Planiro app for iOS. Simple & wherever you're.
Our universal iOS app works on iPhone & iPad.
The most important functions are at your fingertips.
Your personal notifications center. Keep the track with all the changes to your projects.
Things you need to work on. Sorted by deadlines & priorities.
Create, control, edit, discuss tasks with your teammates.
All most important discussions are at your fingertips.
Create notes & subscribe your teammates for updates.
Simple & fast file sharing with every project.
The app can work offline & will sync all the changes with the web app with the first internet connection.


The project that resulted in this work had two main goals. The first was to sort out the most plausible form of the moral error theory, the view made popular by J.L. Mackie in his Ethics: Inventing Right and Wrong. Second, I aimed to determine the extent of its plausibility. The first three chapters of this dissertation are the result of my attempt to accomplish the first goal, and the last two chapters are a consequence of the second. In the end, I argue that the most plausible version of the error theory (viz., Richard Joyce's development of Mackie's views) is not true.
Along the way, I make three additional novel contributions to the meta-ethical literature. First, I provide a close reading of Mackie's work, and I argue that he has been misinterpreted thus far in the literature. Second, I attempt to clarify the linguistic and metaphysical components of the error theory. Third, I explicate a novel view in meta-ethics that isn't a direct descendent of Mackie's views, but which is, in many important respects, similar to his view. I call the view 'moral indecisionism', since its main thesis seems to agree with Hume when he writes, "The chief obstacle ... to our improvement in the moral ... sciences is the obscurity of the ideas, and ambiguity of the terms."
Knight, Casey Alton, "The Plausibility of Moral Error Theories" (2013). Open Access Dissertations. 747.


text:
Style | October 6, 2021 12:41 pm
How "Many Saints of Newark" Nailed All the Little Details of Italian Mobster Style
Costume designer Amy Wescott discusses dressing young Tony, gold chains and what makes a "gangster knit"
One of the hallmarks of the Sopranos' universe has always been its keen sense of Italian-American style
By Caroline Reilly
The much anticipated prequel to The Sopranos hit theaters and HBO Max this month, and as a voracious fan of the show and menswear aficionado, I obviously had my eyes set on the costume design. The hallmark of The Sopranos has always been its authenticity; as an Italian myself, I recognize immediately when a mob movie or show is costumed in a way that caricatures the culture, rather than represents it, and Tony and co. rank among the most realistic depictions of Italian-American style and culture I know.
So my hopes for The Many Saints of Newark were high.
Minutes into the film, I knew I wasn't going to be disappointed. Like its predecessor, Many Saints is as much an experience as it is entertainment, putting you right at the heart of this Italian family of mobsters, mothers, wives and children. From the suits to the knitwear, the menswear in the film feels authentic both in its glamour and its grit, accurately illustrating the way in which Italians take pride in the way they look no matter how much money they have in the bank (or in their tubs of birdseed).
I had the opportunity to chat with costume designer Amy Wescott about dressing the men of Many Saints, how she kept continuity with existing characters and created new ones, how many suits it took to shoot that beach scene, and James Gandolfini's gold chain.
InsideHook: Let's talk about how you rolled the clock back on so many iconic characters like Junior and Tony.
Amy Wescott: It's so difficult because it's very subjective how people change over the years. But I did try to take elements of their personality, and colors, and things like that. Each one of them had a color palette and that was what kept to them. And also kept them in line with their character. So, I watched over all the shows and pulled out colors that I thought could translate into their past, so that it would be a little bit quicker [to recognize them]. And it was also what kind of things made them who they were on the show, whether it be just sweater choices or tie choices.
But then with Tony, he's so much younger. And you really have to see the arc there. And David Chase was very clear about not making him at all mobster-y. He was a kid. And even though he had these tendencies to be sort of rebellious, he was not a rebel yet, and he was still playing football and being a kid, for the most part. A rebellious kid, but he was still … he wasn't to that point. So when I pitched ideas to [Chase] early on, he was very clear in not wanting certain things, like no leather jacket on him and things like that. No shadows yet of who he would become.
And he wore a lot of softer fabrics, which communicated that: knits, shearling and textures like tha. There was no harshness to anything he wore.
Because he's still sort of sweet. And you have to see that. You still have to empathize with him. I mean, even though you did on the show. You empathized with Jim [James Gandolfini] as Tony, you had to see that soft side as he grew. So, I think it was important to have that. And it subtly kept him youthful with stripes and flares and things where he was just fitting in with kids his age, and not Tony, the mob boss.
The one thing that he did was wear his gold chain that Tony wore on the show. And it was the actual chain that Jim wore on the show.
Yeah, that he gave to Michael [Gandolfini], and he broke it. Michael asked if he could wear it, and if we could fix it. And I thought that was one of the most grounding elements to see where he goes, to arc his character, is just that little piece of who his character becomes on the show.
I love that too because, I feel like the one hallmark of that kind of man is no matter how much money they make, they take pride in the way they look: gold jewelry, perfectly tailored suits.
I think that's really important. And a great observation. I mean, they dress much more expensively than they live. And they have nice clothes and nice cars a lot of the time. And it was because they're representing. It's a nice watch and a nice ring, but they live in a regular house and their wives dressed fairly, not extravagantly. And that was a conscious choice. We just wanted to keep them really, really grounded because this was a world that existed. It's not some sort of fantasy. People know the next-door neighbor or whatever in Newark who was like this. And really this flash existence probably happened later, maybe in the '80s, but we weren't doing that.
Their heroes were Dean Martin, Frank Sinatra and the Rat Pack. And they emulated them, even going into the '60s and '70s, when that stuff wasn't fashionable anymore. Sharkskin suits and things like that, they went away fashion-wise. But these guys kept that, I think, well into the '80s. Actually, probably even now.
Amy Wescott's sketches for "The Many Saints of Newark"
I think for me as an Italian what makes the costuming in this film so enjoyable too is that it feels authentic. There's no caricature-ish nature to it.
Yeah, I think that sometimes people sort of glamorize that a bit. And I think that wasn't what our movie was about. It was more the realistic side of who these people were. Yeah, they wore their money, but they were still somebody's neighbor and parents and business owners. So everything costume-wise I had to really ground in reality.
And that was all through research, and finding out what was real and what people did wear. And a lot of times, that was going to Newark. And I think, through the brain of David also, you can dig, and find research, and find what the truth was there.
So speaking of authentic Italian menswear, I want to talk about the knitwear. The gangster knit, as I call it. Every Italian man I know owns some iteration of it.
Some we actually made custom, because the problem is, a lot of times when you find these knitwear pieces in the costume houses, and things like that, they're falling apart. And they're moth-eaten. The idea is there — you see what it was — but it's too old to represent a new shirt, sadly. So a lot of the knitwear we had we made. We found a wonderful knitter in New Jersey. And it was awesome, just reimagining them. Staying really close to what the actual shape was, because we had those. We had the '50s and '60s versions, but they were just too beat. But then for some of the kids and things like that, we hunted around. And a lot of times, you can find those styles still out there. It's a matter of digging and finding them.
But they have really great sources still if you're in New Jersey, or if you're in Queens. There are some places that we dug around and found some decent things out there.
Because these men are still out there!
Yes, yeah, nothing's changed.
"The Sopranos" for Women Is Just … "The Sopranos"
Dressing Like the Men of "The Sopranos" Will Never Go Out of Style
Were the suits similarly bespoke?
All of Dickie's suits, I think, with the exception of one, were bespoke suits that we had made. Custom-made suits from Giliberto's, which is this amazing custom suit maker in Manhattan. And the owner Anthony Giliberto and I worked very closely to just get the fit 100% on Alessandro [Nivola]. And Alessandro would come to the shop with us for several fittings. I mean, we just worked really hard on just getting the fit so perfect on him because it had to look like a custom-made suit. That's where he put his money, so we couldn't skimp on that. And he wore so many suits, I can't even tell you. I mean, his rack of suits was beautiful. It was this amazing array. At the end, he was like, "Oh my God, I'm going to miss my suits. I wish I could take them all home."
His shirts as well. We had all his shirts made by Carl Goldberg, who owns a great custom shirt company called CEGO. I think most of our shirts were made by him, because it's really important to get the right neck. And a lot of the shirts now, they have a spread collar, or the collar is too small or too wide. And we just had to really get the collars right on it.
Same with the knit shirts. You can find the things out in the invented shops, or in costume houses, rental houses. But they're not in good shape anymore. You could see little tiny holes and things like that. And that would've really given it away. I mean, who wants to see Dickie Moltisanti in a hole-y suit? I can't.
Let's talk a little about dressing Dickie Moltisanti, because there was no point of reference from The Sopranos but obviously his presence loomed large.
We had complete carte blanche, which was really nice. We could almost make him into a bit of a fantasy character in a way. He is this guy who's so charming and so likable, yet really complex. And he has strictly two sides to him. And we had to work on the veneer, the outside layer that everybody sees. And he worked really hard to make sure his outward appearance was this very important money guy, very high on the ladder.
I think, with him, a lot of it was staying lighter with the colors. The colors got darker as we went along, because his character got darker and his brain got darker. But in the beginning, it was very happy-go-lucky. That's his whole attitude and demeanor. But always the bit of shine and the pocket square. And everything was always very together with him. So keeping him really looking good all the time. And I think that was really fun for both of us. Alessandro and I had a great time with that character because of it — being able to do something completely new.
Wescott's early sketches of Dickie Moltisanti
And of course the whole cast must have been incredible to work with and dress, like Ray Liotta.
[SPOILER FORTHCOMING] The cast was so stellar and awesome. I mean, I loved all those actors. It was a really a collaborative effort for us both to get on the same page and agree on how to pay homage to the character, but not in a caricature-y way.
Anthony made all of [Ray's] suits as well. And of course, when he's in the car getting killed, we had, I don't know, I want to say 12 of his whole outfit, because we had to make … it was an insane amount because, of course, he gets killed in the car. And then he drags his body. And then he sets him on fire. So, it's all the clothes. He had to go through so much that we had to have so, so many.
Oh wow, you never even consider that sort of thing watching it.
It's so much more than what people think when they see it. Things have to evolve in a certain way. But because shooting takes so long, it's very frequently more than just one thing anyway. Like with the beach scene, Dickie … I mean, geeze. I think he had 10 suits. That overcoat was a custom-made overcoat. And we had, I think, five or six of them because it just got completely soaked. And it was such a great jacket that I was crushed every time it got completely soaked with salt water. I was like, "Oh bye-bye, jacket."
So my last question is: Do you think there's anything the modern guy can learn from the style of the men in The Many Saints of Newark?
Absolutely. And I would say that the cut on a '50s and '60s suit, that's the more tapered — and I don't mean fitted, just tapered and a thin lapel — always looks classic. And I think it's a beautiful look on most men. A nice flat-front pant. It's a timeless look with a white shirt that I think men always look really, really good in a one- or two-button thin lapel. A well-fitted suit goes a long way.
The quarter break is perfect. I wish people would stop going so much further than that. And I also think that tailoring is everything. So you could get a cheaper suit and just have it tailored, and it will look great.
Tailoring is the bottom line.
The Enduring Legacy of Tony Soprano's Unimpeachable Big-Guy Style
This Spring, Embrace the Gangster Knit
Steve Schirripa Remembers the Decadent Eating Culture on "The Sopranos"


The purpose of this project was to showcase JD Gyms new Sunderland branch on social media prior to opening. We provided our 'Creative Video Tour' service to capture the facility in a clear and effective way. Using our DJI Ronin Stabilising equipment we were able to glide through the gym and showcase the main unique selling points JD had to offer.
Website designed by RGB MEDIA.
Roar Motion 2017. All Rights Reserved.


I particularly like when Jim discusses how Ford uses Social to win brand consideration.
Ralph did you school Jim when you were with ADP?
Scott- What a pleasure it is to have you comment to my post. BTW, Ford blue runs in my veins.
Could you please share for the readers the top 3 things that Ford is doing to drive sales with Social?
It would be honor to hear about this subject directly from you.
Thank you for bleeding blue! We're honored to be held up as an example by the industry.
As we view it, social media is best used at the broad end of the sales funnel - for general awareness and reputation building. It's really not a lead generation tool in the way dealers have come to traditionally use the Internet.
Think of it as a relationship building tool that allows you to form trusted relationships with people in your community - much like attending a cocktail party or Rotary lunch. You're not there to sell, but to learn about other people and their interests, respond to their questions and needs, and to provide information as required. Doing so consistently and repeatedly over time will bolster your reputation and put you on people's consideration list when they're ready.
If you wish to persuade me, you must think my thoughts, feel my feelings and speak my words.
This isn't a Jim Farley-ism; this was written by the great Roman orator Cicero over 2,000 years ago. And it's just as true today.
If we want to get the attention and trust of consumers today, we need to be where they are and interacting with them the way they want, not the way we want. Simply taking our old process and repeating it on a new platform or technology will not work. We need to listen and observe and simply be human. It sounds like a simple formula - and in reality it is - but it's largely about common sense and applying the Golden Rule.
Thanks again for taking the time to listen. And thank you for doing what you're doing to help all dealers embrace social media!
I am amazed at the simplicity of your answers and how time-tested your philosophy is. I look forward to following your insights on your blogs "The Social Media Marketing Blog" , "The Automotive Blog", and Twitter - @ScottMonty. Thank you again for your contribution to this discussion and to the industry.
For the readers…it is fair to mention that Scott is a Subject Matter Expert. Scott co authored a great book titled, The Age of Conversation (Second edition).
Thanks for calling that out; it might be helpful to note that my work has also been featured in some 20 books, including the textbook Advertising & Promotion.
And... It sure looks like Scott has been quite effective at it!
Here is a perfect example released today on how Ford is dominating social media. Nice job Scott.


text:
class QCChecker;
// Type: 1=Autism; 2=Control
class LoaderABIDE
	:public TCLoader

{

	static const int POS_ID, POS_DX;
//	static const std::string filePrefix;
	static const std::vector<std::string> header;
	static std::vector<int> POS_QC; // qc_rater_1, qc_anat_rater_2, qc_func_rater_2, qc_anat_rater_3
	static bool FLG_QC_SET;
//	static const int ID_LENGTH_FILE = 7;
//	static const char PADDING = '0';
private:
	std::map<std::string, std::string> nameMapping;
public:
	// the subject.id includes both SITE and ID
	virtual std::vector<SubjectInfo> loadSubjectsFromDescFile(const std::string& fn,
		const std::string& qcMethod, const int nSubject = -1, const int nSkip = 0);

	// the subject.id ONLY includes ID
	virtual std::vector<SubjectInfo> pruneAndAddScanViaScanFile(
		std::vector<SubjectInfo>& vldList, const std::string& root);

	virtual std::string getFilePath(const SubjectInfo& sub);

	virtual tc_t loadTimeCourse(const std::string& fn);
private:
	static void InitPOS_QC();
	bool checkHeader(const std::string& line);
	std::tuple<bool, std::string, int> parsePhenotypeLine(
		const std::string& line, QCChecker* pchecker);
};

redpajama_set_name: RedPajamaGithub


At George Picture Framers both household and corporate picture framing is handled with great care. Ready-made frames are available as well as custom made frames for your specific needs. Bring your valued pictures, photographs, paintings, certificates, diplomas, and any other object you wish to frame and discuss your needs and ideas with us. Mirror framing and 3D box frames are also done.


Take a look at the new toys we ordered in!
Hape- German educational toys that are super cool!!
Can you believe that Inklings has been open for almost 15 years? It's true! From September 14th through September 20th, we will be celebrating our 15th anniversary, and we've got some special things in store for our customers. All week long, during the 15th hour of each day (2pm to 3pm), you can get 15% off your entire purchase!
Read more about It's Our 15th Anniversary!
Because paper connects us in so many ways and will never go out of style, these notebooks are functional and inspired... with attention paid to the elegant details.
Read more about New Paper-Oh Notebooks!
This is Isabella. She is six years old, and loves to read, and be read to. She likes stories about princesses, horses, and everything inbetween. Even though she has just finished Kindergarten, she was able to read the books in the K-2 selection with minimal help from mom.
You can't do this to a kindle!
This video, by Tenth and Fourth, is a real treat to watch. For everyone who's always wondered how books are made, take a look.
Read more about You can't do this to a kindle!
Well, it's been a soggy week at Inklings. Thursday [before last], we experienced a big rainstorm that was probably the worst I've ever driven in. The iPhone was blaring a warning of flash floods and I was eyeing the bridges I'd need to cross to get home. Made it safely and sat in the darkening living room in awe of the production in the skies. Heavy rain, incredible sunset colors, weird light. Wow!
Looking for a great book club book? Try The Bees by Laline Paull.
Flora 717 is a sanitation worker, a member of the lowest caste in her orchard hive, where work and sacrifice are the highest virtues and worship of the beloved Queen the only religion. But Flora is not like other bees. With circumstances threatening the hive's survival, her curiosity is regarded as a dangerous flaw, but her courage and strength are assets. She is allowed to feed the newborns in the royal nursery and then to become a forager, flying alone and free to collect nectar and pollen. A feat of bravery grants her access to the Queen's inner sanctum, where she discovers mysteries about the hive that are both profound and ominous.
But when Flora breaks the most sacred law of all-daring to challenge the Queen's preeminence-enemies abound, from the fearsome fertility police who enforce the hive's strict social hierarchy to the high priestesses jealously wedded to power. Her deepest instincts to serve and sacrifice are now overshadowed by a greater power: a fierce maternal love that will bring her into conflict with her conscience, her heart, and her society-and lead her to perform unthinkable deeds.
Thrilling, suspenseful, and spectacularly imaginative, The Bees and its dazzling young heroine will forever change the way you look at the world outside your window.
Old books have a distinctive smell that can make any book lover's heart melt.


text:
4 Statement of changes in beneficial ownership of securities Nov 2, 2017 Open Statement of changes in beneficial ownership of securities in HTML. Open Statement of changes in beneficial ownership of securities in DOC file. Open Statement of changes in beneficial ownership of securities in PDF file. Open Statement of changes in beneficial ownership of securities in XLS file.
4 Statement of changes in beneficial ownership of securities Oct 31, 2017 Open Statement of changes in beneficial ownership of securities in HTML. Open Statement of changes in beneficial ownership of securities in DOC file. Open Statement of changes in beneficial ownership of securities in PDF file. Open Statement of changes in beneficial ownership of securities in XLS file.
4 Statement of changes in beneficial ownership of securities Aug 4, 2017 Open Statement of changes in beneficial ownership of securities in HTML. Open Statement of changes in beneficial ownership of securities in DOC file. Open Statement of changes in beneficial ownership of securities in PDF file. Open Statement of changes in beneficial ownership of securities in XLS file.
4 Statement of changes in beneficial ownership of securities Jun 8, 2017 Open Statement of changes in beneficial ownership of securities in HTML. Open Statement of changes in beneficial ownership of securities in DOC file. Open Statement of changes in beneficial ownership of securities in PDF file. Open Statement of changes in beneficial ownership of securities in XLS file.
3/A Amendment to a previously filed Form 3. May 16, 2017 Open Amendment to a previously filed Form 3. in HTML. Open Amendment to a previously filed Form 3. in DOC file. Open Amendment to a previously filed Form 3. in PDF file. Open Amendment to a previously filed Form 3. in XLS file.
4 Statement of changes in beneficial ownership of securities May 16, 2017 Open Statement of changes in beneficial ownership of securities in HTML. Open Statement of changes in beneficial ownership of securities in DOC file. Open Statement of changes in beneficial ownership of securities in PDF file. Open Statement of changes in beneficial ownership of securities in XLS file.
4 Statement of changes in beneficial ownership of securities Mar 29, 2017 Open Statement of changes in beneficial ownership of securities in HTML. Open Statement of changes in beneficial ownership of securities in DOC file. Open Statement of changes in beneficial ownership of securities in PDF file. Open Statement of changes in beneficial ownership of securities in XLS file.
4 Statement of changes in beneficial ownership of securities Mar 6, 2017 Open Statement of changes in beneficial ownership of securities in HTML. Open Statement of changes in beneficial ownership of securities in DOC file. Open Statement of changes in beneficial ownership of securities in PDF file. Open Statement of changes in beneficial ownership of securities in XLS file.
4 Statement of changes in beneficial ownership of securities Feb 28, 2017 Open Statement of changes in beneficial ownership of securities in HTML. Open Statement of changes in beneficial ownership of securities in DOC file. Open Statement of changes in beneficial ownership of securities in PDF file. Open Statement of changes in beneficial ownership of securities in XLS file.


text:
Celebrities Speak Out on Gay Bullying
Aired October 4, 2010 - 21:00 ET
LARRY KING, HOST: Tonight, bullying. It led five young men in the span of one week to commit suicide, because they were taunted and tormented for being gay. Kathy Griffin, Wanda Sykes, Tim Gunn, Lance Bass, and Nate Berkus are here with their stories of personal pain and heartache and the drastic action one of them considered as his only escape. Next on LARRY KING LIVE.
Good evening. Wanda Sykes is an openly gay comedienne. She performs October 15th and 16th at Planet Hollywood in Las Vegas. Kathy Griffin is a gay activist, comedienne and actress, the star of Bravo's "My life on the D-List." Tim Gunn stars in "Project Runway." Tim is gay. And he attempted suicide at age 17. And Lance Bass, openly gay, performer, former performer with N Sync. He says, get this, that in high school he made fun of gay kids to hide his own secret.
Lesbian, gay, and bisexual youths are up to four times more likely to attempt suicide than their heterosexual parents -- their peers, rather. And the Trevor Project staffs a national 24-hour toll- free confidential suicide hotline for gay and questioning youth. Just remember this. 866-4U-TREVOR. 866-4U-TREVOR.
Why are they bullied? Why are gay people bullied? For what purpose?
WANDA SYKES, COMEDIENNE: For the purpose?
KING: I mean, why would someone bully someone because they're gay?
SYKES: I think it stems with society. I mean, when society as a whole has told -- has basically told the kids that it's okay, that we're a group that you can pick on, that you that don't have to treat as equal. I mean, we see that in, you know, in the laws and everything else that's out here, in the churches that they preach that homophobia is wrong. You pretty much have given kids permission to disrespect and, you know, and to cause harm to the gay and lesbian community.
KING: Tim, you see that as a good reason?
TIM GUNN, "PROJECT RUNWAY": Well, Larry, I think that it's also fear-related, fear of the unknown. It stems from insecurities. I believe that there are many issues around this. I also want to add when Wanda cites the churches, the human rights campaign has a statistic, which is that there are still 33 states in this nation where one can be fired for being gay. So that puts gay people in the same category as those who are committing heinous crimes. And what does that really mean? It's a conundrum for me.
KING: Do you think, Kathy, that society, heterosexual society looks the other way?
KATHY GRIFFIN, COMEDIENNE: Look, let's cut the crap. I think that the way that we had trickle-down economics in the '80s, this is trickle down homophobia. And I really want people to connect the dots. And that's why I believe there's a connection between Prop 8, don't ask, don't tell, and now the string of teen suicides. It's almost sanctioned to bully gay people and treat them as second-class citizens. And I get very nervous when the parents of these so-called bullies defend them saying, oh, kids will be kids, when you find out that the teen suicide rate is four times higher for a gay person. Think about how tragic suicide is, period. But why would you want to make it four times higher? And for what? These kids are just being themselves.
KING: Now Lance?
GRIFFIN: So I think a lot of the so-called religious leaders play into it. And the politicians certainly aren't doing enough. There's a lot of very right-wing conservative people that absolutely sanction this behavior. And there's a lot you can do to finally put a stop to it.
KING: Wait, you're not saying that this religious person would say it's okay to bully a gay person. They may say--
GRIFFIN: Really? Have you talked to Jim DeMint today? I mean, there's a--
KING: And he would say it's okay to bully someone?
GRIFFIN: He doesn't think there should be gay teachers. So yeah, what I'm saying is that -- when I say so-called religious leaders, I mean, because not of course all religion is bad, but there are a lot of people under the umbrella of I'm a religious leader or gee, I don't mind gay people, I just don't want them in my church, I just don't think they should marry, I don't think they should serve openly.
I did an episode of "My Life on the D-List," where I talked to a gay serviceman who said he was in the barracks with his pal in Iraq, who said you know what we should do? We should go hang a fag from a tree outside. He thought that was his friend. He was serving in Iraq. So this is all kind of sanctioned quietly at is this point.
KING: Lance -- hold it one second, Wanda. Lance, you're the member -- you were a member of N Sync, one of the most popular groups ever in this country. Now, you made fun of gay kids in high school to hide your own secret.
LANCE BASS, N SYNC: That's right. KING: Didn't you think you were harming your own kind in a sense? Did you feel bad when you did that?
BASS: You know, as a kid, you don't think of it like that. When you're 13, 14, you just go along with what the other people are doing. You just want to fit in. You want to make sure that your friends like you.
So yeah, you're going to crack jokes, you're going to laugh along with it. And when you're a teenager, you're not really thinking, oh, I'm being a bully by laughing along with it. You think okay, a bully's just someone that can physically go and harm someone for being short, for being black, white, whatever. But you know, you're also a bully by condoning the behavior and making the jokes along with them.
KING: Do you think the bullier feels better about bullying someone he thinks is less than himself? I mean, what do you get out of bullying?
SYKES: I really don't know what they get out of it. I mean, I -- I've never been a bully.
KING: Have you been bullied?
SYKES: Larry, nobody's going to bully me. Come on now. No. But--
GRIFFIN: I have.
SYKES: No.
GRIFFIN: I've been bullied. And you know what hurts? The collusion. I remember one time I was getting my butt kicked in a park when I was a little kid. And I'll never forget a guy walking by with a briefcase, just walking by. And I feel like at this time we can't be that guy anymore. We can't walk by anymore.
GRIFFIN: That's why it's important to get involved with places like the Trevor Project. And as I travel the whole country, as you do, you meet all kinds of people. And I can't believe how many people come up to me at shows and they'll say until your show I don't think I've ever sat next to a gay person before.
KING: Weird.
GRIFFIN: So the word is they're out there, we're all out there.
KING: Tim, in your book, "Gunn's Golden Rules: Life's Little Lessons for Making it Work," do you write about this at all?
GUNN: I do, Larry. I certainly talk about the bullying that I experienced and about the -- how marginalized I felt. And it was serious enough and I felt desperate enough that I wanted to end my own life. And I'm very lucky that my suicide attempt was not successful. KING: Last week, Ellen DeGeneres spoke out on her show. Take a look.
ELLEN DEGENERES, COMEDIENNE: Being a teenager and figuring out who you are is hard enough without someone attacking you. My heart is breaking for their families, for their friends and for our society that continues to let this happen. These kids needed us. And we have an obligation to change this. There are messages everywhere that validate this kind of bullying and taunting. And we have to make it stop. We can't let intolerance and ignorance take another kid's life.
And I want anyone out there who feels different and alone to know that I know how you feel. And there is help out there. And you can find support in your community. If you need someone to talk to, or if you want to get involved, there are some really great organizations listed on our website. Things will get easier. People's minds will change. And you should -- you should be alive to see it.
KING: Five people hung themselves within a week. Seth Walsh in his California backyard, September 19th. The Rutgers university freshman Tyler Clement, 18, jumps of the George Washington bridge September 22nd. Asher Brown, 13 years old, from Houston, shot himself in the head on September 23rd. Raymond Chase, 19, hung himself in his dorm room in Rhode Island on September 29th. And on September 30th, a 14-year-old Indiana boy ended his life.
Kathy, you've been to Iraq, even talked with gay soldiers who were bullied in the military--
GRIFFIN: Yes.
KING: Let's take a look at that.
GRIFFIN: Are there certain people in your unit that you feel like would be the type of person that would tend to out you and you kind of stay away from them?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Uh-huh, yeah.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm more worried about the violence and possible gay bashing because there is so much just accepted hate because of like the whole policy. Because I would become like really good friends with this one person. And he wouldn't know that I was gay. And when we were in our corps school, he just out of nowhere said "I think we should hang gay people out in front of the trees so they know they're not welcome here." And I was like, what?
GRIFFIN: Wow. How do you respond to someone saying that to you?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I couldn't say anything. Like -- I was -- that killed me.
GRIFFIN: And later on off camera, he said he didn't use the expression "gay person."
KING: By the way, Kathy's going to have a special announcement. It's coming up next. Don't go away.
TIME STAMP: 2112:21
KING: there you see Lance Bass's "no hate" photo. He and Kathy have both posed for no hate. No hate supports equality and gay rights. And Kathy's involved with the Trevor Project. Tell us why it's important. And I understand you've got an announcement.
GRIFFIN: Well, yeah, because I think that in situations like this, people want to know what they can do. And the great thing about the Trevor Project, as you said, it's 1-866-4-U-TREVOR. You can call 24 hours a day. It's a confidential help line if you're depressed. You can go to their website, trevorproject.org. And I have -- you know, tour all the time like you do. And so my December 16th show at the Gibson Universal Amphitheater here in L.A., I'm going to give my entire salary to them. So none of this portions of the proceeds BS. But I can't give like the union money for the rental and stuff like that. But what I want to do is let people know it's a regular show. I'm still going to be as offensive as always, but the actual money will benefit the Trevor Project. But also, you can join a phone bank. You can volunteer in your neighborhood. You can help many ways. Also, you can help by maybe reaching out to someone in your school that you might think is gay or know is gay and just be their friend. Just talk to them.
KING: Yes. Lance, I don't know how to relate -- I'll start with you and then we'll go around. Boyd Packer, he's I think the second highest leader in the Mormon church. He delivered a sermon called "Same-sex Attraction," and he called it impure and unnatural and against God's law and nature. And apparently, he said that after learning of some of these suicides. Now, I know many, many Mormons. I'm married to a Mormon. They're some of the most wonderful people I know. I've never seen them say prejudiced things. Do you think those kind of things spoken from their own bible could lead to violence?
BASS: I mean, it does. You know, it's very confusing. I grew up in the bible belt, you know, here in America. And you know, I grew up Southern Baptist. And you know, it's very scary as a kid, because you're always taught, you know, that oh, gay is wrong, you're going to hell.
So you know, you're basically scared into believing those thoughts. And it's all what you're taught. You know, these kids don't learn it themselves. It's all what they're taught from the older generations, your older brothers, your sisters, your parents. It's passed down generation to generation. You know, those thoughts. KING: But they also teach, Wanda, love the sinner, hate the sin.
SYKES: They don't teach that enough. You know. I mean, and it's -- they don't teach the love part. I'll put it that way. They don't teach the love part enough. And it's all driven on by fear. You know, it's -- and I believe a lot of people -- like if it were my own family. You know, I believe that the big problem that my family had with me is that, you know, it's the superstition and it's the fear that if I accept you, then I'm accountable and then I'm going to go to hell, which is -- it's crazy.
KING: Is it -- did you make a conscious decision, Tim, to be gay?
GUNN: Oh, certainly not, Larry. As a matter of fact, growing up, I didn't really know who I was when it came to my sexuality. But I knew who I wasn't. And there just weren't a lot of positive role models for me growing up, gay role models. I mean, when I reflect on it, Paul Lindh running around "Bewitched" as Uncle Arthur. And you had gay decorators in the Doris Day movies sort of flitting about. And I thought, I'm not like that. That isn't who I am.
So I knew who I wasn't. And it was very difficult to come to terms with.
KING: Yes, I would imagine, Kathy -- and you're of this four- person panel, you are not gay.
GRIFFIN: I'm not gay.
KING: But you didn't -- did you choose to be heterosexual? Did you one day say gay, not gay?
GRIFFIN: I didn't choose to be heterosexual any more than Wanda chose to be gay or Tim or Lance. And that's what's so simple about this.
KING: So why are they (inaudible), why are they beaten? Why are they--
GRIFFIN: Because they're not sinning. You know, I'm sorry, but I want to connect the dots once again, because I feel that there's something happening now more than ever where it's all sanctioned to bully a little bit, and gay bash a little bit. And I am sorry, but I hold the White House accountable and like I said, these so-called religious leaders.
And that's why Prop 8 is tied to the repeal of don't ask, don't tell. It is tied to the bullying and these suicides. Remember, Matthew Sheppard wasn't a suicide, but he was bullied to death, to death.
KING: Correct.
GRIFFIN: And a lot of young people don't even know the name Matthew Sheppard. Look it up. Look up the name Tyler Clementi. Spend five minutes online and look up this person's story. And you'll see this is something that is preventable. It is a preventable--
KING: That's the kid who jumped off the George Washington Bridge.
GRIFFIN: Yes. And what a way, because someone surreptitiously videotaped him. Do you think that if it was a man and a woman being videotaped, that one of these people would have committed suicide? No.
KING: We'll be right back after this. Don't go away.
KING: We're back with our panel. Wanda, a mega preacher in Atlanta, Eddie Long, who denounces homosexuality, is being accused of gay sexual misconduct. Now, we hear a lot of this. Congressmen, preachers. What do you make of that, when you see hypocrisy run rampant?
SYKES: Well, it -- you know, it goes back to, you know, the saying of, you know, the squeaky wheel gets the oil. I guess in this case it's, you know, the squeaky wheel gets the ballerina slippers. It's just crazy that he is -- you know, he's in the church. And he said, you know, if gay people are in my church, he asked them to leave. And here we hear -- exactly. And here we find out, you know, he's taking these young boys and flying around the country. And I can't believe that he's still in the pulpit.
KING: Is it your church?
SYKES: What was that?
KING: It's your church?
SYKES: It's my church? No, no, no, no.
KING: Do you know people who go there?
SYKES: No, no. Do I know people who go to that church? I know people who are affiliated with that church.
GRIFFIN: I know people who've been to many churches who have had priests who were Hippocratic to them -- sorry. You know, church in a big way.
SYKES: What I would like to know is what message are we sending to the kids if he's still standing in the pulpit, you know, and the leader of the church? I mean, you're telling your kids that it doesn't matter if you speak up. The person who's in power is going to win. You know, what you say, it doesn't matter. I mean, I'm not saying he's guilty or not. I don't know this man.
KING: Right, Tim?
SYKES: But he should step down.
KING: Tim's book, by the way, we mentioned earlier, we'll show it to you, is "Gunn's Golden Rules: Life's Little Lessons for Making it Work." Tim, do you know why -- has anybody studied why a bully bullies? Okay, you may not like them, you may think they're a sinner. Why do you hit them? Why do you goad them?
GUNN: You know, Larry--
KING: Why that?
GUNN: --it's so against my very inner being and my soul. I fundamentally don't understand it. I've never been a bully. And it's largely because -- I shouldn't speculate in this way. But I suspect it's because I was always the object of bullying. And it was just a horrible way to grow up, and to live in fear of going into a playground behind the school or walking home from school. It's an awful way to live every day. And--
KING: Do you think a bully is a chicken really? Do you think a bully is just--
GRIFFIN: Oh, you bet they are. Especially when they're alone.
GUNN: I agree with Wanda. I believe a bully is a chicken. If you really are secure in who you are as a person, you don't need to behave that way. So I think it stems from insecurities and fear.
BASS: And you have something to hide.
KING: By the way, Neil Patrick Harris has made a public service announcement for the It Gets Better campaign. Watch.
NEIL PATRCIK HARRIS: There's no need to harm yourself if something's going bad. You can act with strength. You can act with courage. You can act with class. And stand tall. Be proud of who you are. This is a good time that we live in. And we're being granted more and more rights. And that's awesome. And it will continue in that direction. And -- yeah. Be proud.
KING: Lance, 9 out of 10 LGBT students, that's lesbian and gay, bisexual students, experience harassment at school. And over 160,000 kids stay home from school every day, 160,000, for fear of being bullied.
BASS: Yeah.
KING: What kind of existence is that?
BASS: It's a terrible one, you know. And it goes back to our leaders, I think. You know, once we finally get rid of don't ask, don't tell, when everyone is equal and being able to get married, that's what's teaching our younger generation, you know, what is right and what is wrong. And until that is like -- that is done, these kids aren't going to really, you know, respect their own opinions. They're going to be thinking, oh, this is what the government's telling me to think. And obviously, they're treating us like second-class citizens. So that's how they're going to grow up thinking.
KING: We'll be right back. Don't go away.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Dude, what would happen if one of us was a bully?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yeah, and you bullied one of us.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We decided to do a bully situation and figure out what would be the best thing to do about it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I played the bully and hated it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What's going on, little guy?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It felt awful.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You haven't grown at all.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was the one getting bullied. And that didn't feel so good either.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And I was just watching it all go down. I had to do something. And the best thing to do is to get an adult.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's enough. That's enough. Back up, Jackson.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Together we can make a difference. Stop bullying. Speak up. Go to stop bullyingspeak up.com to find out more.
KING: That was a PSA from the stars of Cartoon Network's "Dude, What Would Happen?"
Still to come, Nate Berkus and country star Shelly Wright.
What -- a memorial was held over the weekend for Tyler Clementi, the Rutgers student. He jumped from the George Washington Bridge after a video of him having sex with another male was put on the Internet. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Not a video he made himself. That's what's key.
KING: No, of course. Do you think people have any knowledge of what they're doing, what the harm it causes?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'd like to think that they don't at the time. I think a lot of bullies do it because it makes them feel bigger. But I can't imagine someone thinking this person's going to write a simple line that says "jumping off the GW bridge." how can you live with that? And by the way, I would say that the blood is on the hands of several people who have participated in those kinds of bullyings. The blood's on their hands, as well as a lot of our leaders, our so-called leaders.
KING: What do you say to someone who bullies, Wanda?
SYKES: What do you say to someone?
KING: Yes, what do you say to someone?
SYKES: Why? What's the purpose? What do you hope to accomplish? Do you really think that little of yourself that, you know, you need to pump yourself up by being in control trying to ruin someone else? I mean, basically, get a life. Get a life. Try to be, you know -- make something of yourself.
KING: How could you live, Tim, if you knew that you bullied someone and then they killed themselves? I mean, how could you live with yourself?
GUNN: Larry, I can't even comprehend it. It's simply impossible to even understand. And I couldn't live with myself. That's for certain.
KING: Do you understand it, Lance, how -- what do they get out of it? Are they somehow extolled by their friends because they bully? Do friends encourage the bullying person to go on?
BASS: Yeah. I mean, I don't know what it is. I mean, it's definitely to impress your friends. I mean, I think that's the main reason people do bully, is to look cool in front of your friends. But you've just got to realize you're not being cool at all. I mean, it's the stupidest thing to do. And a lot of these kids also that are getting bullied, they don't realize because when you're in high school or junior high, that is your world. You don't think anything beyond that. And they don't realize that in a few years that all goes away. It all gets so much better. And you won't even -- you will leave those people behind and they won't have anything to do with you why life. Like life gets so much better.
KING: What advice do you give, Kathy, to a kid who's struggling?
GRIFFIN: Well, first of all, I think reaching out is really important. What's great is that when I was a kid, there weren't organizations like the Trevor Project. And no matter where you go, you can give them -- wherever you are, you can give them a call.
But also I just think like -- I remember when I was a kid and there was like a frail kid being picked on, I just befriended him. So I think just human to human friendship can be a buoying thing. And also I thought the PSA was really great, saying get an adult. So not that everyone is trustworthy or perfect or going to do the right thing, but I would say in a school situation, yeah, you'd probably have better luck getting an adult to help intervene than one of the jocks or cheerleaders.
KING: Tim, I thought things were getting better, that we had more acceptance, that there was more love and harmony. So are we just hearing about it more? Were there always suicides?
GUNN: Larry, I'd like to think that we're just hearing more about it also. At the same time, I do believe that there is -- that this represents an escalation in incidents. And of course owing to the new dimensions of the media, we hear more about it and we hear it louder and more profoundly.
It's very unsettling. And it's not a good message to send to anyone, that this is happening. And I agree with Kathy. You're not going to do this alone. You need to enlist resources, the people who love you, the people who care about you and who can nurture you definitely, and definitely adults.
BASS: I'm sorry. I just wanted to say I'm just so glad that you're really promoting this Trevor Project. There are so many great organizations out there. Brittany Snow has a Love is Louder Campaign with the Jet Foundation and Trevor. Where I come from, like in Mississippi, those are the places that never -- they never get to talk to someone. So, you know, phone lines like this are just so important to get out there to the smaller cities out there, because we kind of get used to living in New York and L.A. It's a lot easier to have acceptance. But when you're from a very small town, you feel like the only lonely person in town.
KING: Wanda, you agree with Kathy that there are links to this, like Don't Ask, Don't Tell, that they're all part of leading up to this increase in bullying?
SYKES: I believe that it is assisting. You know, I'm not going to say that that's the -- you know, the crux of it, because this has been going on for decades. But I think maybe what's making people a little more vocal and -- is because of issues that -- like Don't Ask, Don't Tell and Prop 8. They're so much in the forefront right now of politics that maybe that's, you know, causing people to do more harm.
But, you know, this just goes back to discrimination, prejudice, fear, hatred. I mean, just as a black person, Larry -- I mean, I know things have gotten a lot better, but there's parts of the United States that I would be afraid to go to as a black person. I mean, it's just something that we're born with, innate. When I go to a place, I check it out, I look around, and I go, OK, is it cool for me to be here?
And then as a gay person, I have to do the same thing. I mean, it's -- until we have laws and until there is a strong presence that says hey, this is not right, we're not going to put up with it, and it's just taught down to the kids, then it's not going to change.
KING: Tim and Lance are going to leave us, and two panelists will replace them. Wanda and Kathy remain. Thank you both very much. We're going to meet a mother whose teenage son killed himself after being bullied. Her story is next.
KING: Tammy Aaberg's son Justin was 15 years old when he committed suicide in July, after being bullied at school. Justin was gay. His mother, Tammy, joins us from Minneapolis. How long did you know that your son was gay, Tammy?
TAMMY AABERG, GAY SON COMMITTED SUICIDE AFTER BEING BULLIED: I found out January of 2009, when he had hurt himself. I brought him to the hospital.
KING: He was how old, 13 then?
AABERG: Thirteen, yes.
KING: Did he tell you he was bullied at school?
AABERG: He only mentioned one incident that was a month before he died. And he said that that kid was gay as well, so he blew it off. That was the only time I've heard about.
KING: Did you know he was tormented?
AABERG: No. He always was smiley, happy kid, had many friends, loved playing his cello. I had no idea.
KING: Why did he kill himself?
AABERG: I'm guessing things added up, especially some of the things that I've been hearing and one event in particular. And I don't know what was the last thing that day that made him go over to take the -- make that decision. But -- but it had to be pretty significant.
KING: Was -- did he leave you any note?
AABERG: No. I only found something that said -- it was like he was starting to write a song or something. And it said -- it was back in his closet, something about ending his pain. So I don't know if he had thought about this in the past or not.
KING: How did you learn of it?
AABERG: Learn of?
KING: His death.
AABERG: Learn of what?
AABERG: Oh. Me and my oldest son, Andrew, and my youngest, Anthony, who's eight, we found him in the bedroom hanging from his futon frame.
KING: Did you talk to people at the school?
AABERG: Yes. When I found out Justin was bullied -- one of his friends had texted me, actually, and asked me if I was going to speak at the school board meeting, and I wondered why. And she called me then and told me that he was bullied and told me the stories that she had went through as well. And she also went to the school board.
And so I addressed them on August 23rd. And then I've been speaking about his death since then. And I've been talking to kids all over the country that have come to me and feel that they're not alone now. And I guess me speaking out has helped them to some extent.
KING: We -- for the record, here's part of a statement we received from a spokesperson for Justin's school district.
AABERG: Okay.
KING: "The Annica Hennepin" -- that's the district -- "was the first district in the state of Minnesota to adopt a specific anti- bullying policy. Did that in 2003. This current school year, we are providing specific training to all middle and high school teachers on how to recognize and intervene when there is harassment of gay, lesbian, bisexual, or transgender students. Any district employee who fails to stop harassment during the course of their duties will be held accountable."
Did you know that that district was on record on this long ago, Tammy?
AABERG: No. No. According to the policy that I see out there, they don't have gay or lesbian or gender identity language in their harassment policy at all. And the one that they have now too with curriculum is a neutrality policy. So teachers don't even know how to intervene in a lot of issues when kids are being bullied or called names.
A lot of teachers don't even intervene at all. And they're -- actually, as far as this past Saturday, from an article in the "Star Tribune" paper, which is the Minneapolis-St. Paul paper, Tom Heidemann (ph), who is the board chair, says regarding the policy, "we picked a position that we're not going to deal with it. These are issues that can be dealt with outside the classroom."
So it doesn't sound like they are planning on changing any of the policies right now. KING: Tammy, we'll be calling on you again. I salute you. I know you're out there trying to help others like Justin. And we know how sad this -- there's no way. We don't know what to say. Thank you, Tammy.
AABERG: Thank you.
KING: Tammy Aaberg. Nate Berkus and country star Chely Wright are next.
KING: We're back with Wanda Sykes and Kathy Griffin. Joining us now, Chely Wright, singer-songwriter. In May, she became the first major country music performer to announce that she's gay. She's a spokesperson for the Gay, Lesbian, and Straight Education Network. Also with us is Nate Berkus, host of "The Nate Berkus Show." He hopes that his own experiences with coming out can help others.
Chely came out recently and talked about her sexual orientation in an upcoming documentary. Watch.
CHELY WRIGHT, COUNTRY MUSIC STAR: Country music has been described as being about God and family and country. And for some reason, people think that you can't be gay and have those beliefs. And that's why I have to do this. I have to be one to step forward to say, really? You think you know what gay is? Well, I'm your -- I'm your "People Magazine's" 50 most beautiful. I'm your American Legion Woman of the Year.
I was the first artist of any genre to play in Iraq after the fall of Saddam Hussein. I was the first. And I'm gay.
KING: Chely, do you think it's tougher being a lesbian in the country music field?
WRIGHT: Well, I think it's tough for every American who's gay and lesbian. I think it's tough for a junior high math teacher to be a lesbian, Larry. But certainly with never having an openly gay or lesbian country music singer, yes, it's been tough.
KING: Have you ever been bullied?
WRIGHT: Since my coming out, I've been bullied. I was bullied in school, of course not for being gay, because I hid until May of this year the fact that I'm gay. But since my coming out, yes, I have been bullied. And it doesn't feel good.
KING: Nate, you wrote about the challenges of being young and gay in a book called "Crisis." You wrote that from age 13 to 17 growing up in the suburbs of Minnesota "I was in a crisis mode." That mother we just had on, her son killed himself in a suburb of Minneapolis. What do you mean by a crisis mode?
NATE BERKUS, "THE NATE BERKUS SHOW": Well, I think, Larry, what I meant by that -- first of all, my heart goes out to all of the parents right now who have lost their children. This is a call to arms. I'm very grateful to be part of the show tonight, because we have to come together as a country and as a society to keep this from happening. The gay suicides have to end.
Crisis mode for me was -- you know, when any child is 13, 14 years old, it doesn't matter, you -- and you are trying to hide a fundamental part of yourself, what happens is that you cannot focus on anything else. Please understand, too, there was no Youtube. There were no -- there was no Internet, nothing like that, when I was growing up.
So when I was a young teen and I was in the closet, there was no -- you know, the bullying went on constantly, but it wasn't on a national scale. So there's many things going on right now. And the crisis that I was in literally doesn't hold a candle to the crisis that we are putting the gay youth in today.
KING: The Trevor Project staffs a toll-free confidential suicide hotline: 866-4-U-TREVOR. We'll have an exclusive look at a new announcement from Wanda, Elton John, Ricky Martin, and Lea Michelle from "Glee." More of our whole panel. Stay with us.
(NEWS BREAK)
KING: Wanda, is there advice you can give -- this is for the whole panel -- to a young man who, tomorrow, is going to be bullied in school?
SYKES: Talk to your parents. Let your parents know what's going on. And, also, know that things are going to get better. It won't always be that way.
GRIFFIN: It could be any relative. It could be an aunt or uncle or a good buddy.
SYKES: Find that person. And also, there's organizations. You know, hopefully, maybe there's an LGPT center in their community. Get in contact with them. Of course, the Trevor Project.
KING: Talk to your teachers?
GRIFFIN: I think it depends, frankly. I think there are schools in parts of the country -- I'm from a Catholic background. I wouldn't have gone to those nuns. I think it's all about being sensitive to who you think the person is that is safe for you.
KING: This subject has galvanized people everywhere. Here's a new public service announcement premiering here. It's from GiveADamn.org. Watch.
ELTON JOHN, SINGER: Whenever I hear about a hate crime, I'm shocked and saddened.
RICKY MARTIN, SINGER: One of these acts of violence and intimidation occurs approximately every hour of every day in this country.
SYKES: Imagine walking down the street and wondering if this is the day that you'll get beaten up or even killed simply because of who you are?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Gay, lesbian, buy sexual and transgender people constantly face this fear. Sometimes, with devastating results.
MARTIN: It is time for things to change.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's time we all stand together and say "enough is enough." We will not tolerate hate any longer.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We all have to get involved.
SYKES: We all have to give a damn.
JOHN: I give a damn.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I give a damn.
MARTIN: I give a damn. Do you? Join us at WeGiveADamn.org to learn more.
KING: We said Lea Michele. That's Idina Menzel on that PSA. You think that helps, Chely?
WRIGHT: I do. I'm proud to say that I'm part of the Give a Damn campaign. You mentioned earlier, Larry, that I'm the national spokesperson for Glisten. You know, something -- school is everything. As Lance mentioned earlier, that is the center of a young person's world. I'm proud to say that next week, Glisten is rolling out a national safe space campaign that will help ensure that every kid at school gets the same learning environment. We have a safe space kit and a sticker that an educator can put in their classroom or at the window of -- the door of their classroom. And it identifies the educator, the teacher or the administrator as a safe space.
And what we're learning from students is that if a teacher, an adult identifies themselves as someone who will show respect and concern, it makes all the difference. And you can go to Glisten.org for that information.
KING: We'll be back with more right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) KING: Let's go around the panel. Nate Berkus, do you think it is going to get better?
BERKUS: Larry, it absolutely has to get better. The truth is it takes one adult -- one adult to intervene. We can do this from New York and L.A. and be on television. But in the towns across America, where the bullying is happening and the kids feel like they have no one to go to, it takes one adult to notice.
Where are our heroes? You be that hero. We have to intervene. On the ground, boots on the ground. The intervention has to happen in the schools, on the playground, in the sports, whatever is going on. Bring you kids home and ask them -- it's -- everyone knows how the bullies are, Larry. Every teacher every parent, every kid -- walk into a third grade class, it takes you two minutes to identify who is bullying who. Literally, two minutes.
So say to your kids tonight, who is bullying who in this school? Empower your children to stand up for them. Drive to school tomorrow morning and be the one that intervenes. Be the one that can save the lives of all these people. We saw the mother from Minnesota.
KING: Kathy, you think this can change?
GRIFFIN: Yes. If you're watching this at home and you feel enraged but helpless, you can help. All right, come see me at the Gibson Theater. Make a monetary donation. Come get a pamphlet. Sign up for the Trevor Project. Sign up for Give a Damn. Go talk to somebody. Like he said, you can see those bullies. And you can probably see the more frail kids, too. Go say "hi." Talk to them. Listen to them.
KING: Do you think it can change, Wanda? Do you think it gets better?
SYKES: Definitely, definitely, because we're having this conversation now and more people are talking about it. So I think the awareness --
KING: It's Bully Awareness Week.
SYKES: Yes, it is Bully Awareness Week. And I think until things do get better, that we're -- I'm going to continue to talk about it. We're going to do our part.
KING: Chely, are you optimistic?
WRIGHT: I am optimistic. But we all have to be paying attention. Everyone should get the same shot. And you know what, this is the way I was born. I'm a Christian and I'm gay. And everyone should get the same shot, and including these kids in school. Schools have to start paying attention to anti-LGBT bullying now.
KING: We're almost out of time. Nate, don't schools see it more than home? BERKUS: Absolutely schools see it more than home. Parents want to send their kids to school. School has to be a safe place. Gay, black, whatever the issue is, it doesn't matter; the discrimination has no place in the public school system or private school system. It has no place and it has to end.
WRIGHT: We have bullies in Congress. We've got bullies in churches. We have bullies -- we have adult bullies, too. We've got to start -- our adults --
GRIFFIN: And you can ignore them, too. In other words, you can come from a family that may feel that way, but you don't have to 2350e8 that way yourself.
KING: Thanks to all of you. We hope we helped a little. The Trevor Project, toll free, confidential suicide hotline, 866-4-U- TREVOR.
Liza Minnelli is here tomorrow night. I didn't have to say the last name, did I? Anderson Cooper and "AC 360" is next.


Opodo flights to Barcelona from Zurich - Book now!
Trains in Barcelona are 39% cheaper than in Zurich.
A meal in Barcelona is 46% cheaper than a meal in Zurich.
A taxi fare in Barcelona is 64% cheaper than in Zurich.
Coffee in Barcelona is 57% cheaper than in Zurich.


text:
Articles written by Codie Hays
By Codie Hays Entertainment
Espadín celebrates one year in business
Located in Old Town Temecula, the Mexican restaurant Espadin celebrated their first anniversary recently. Spencer Szczygiel, director of operations manager, said he is proud to... — Updated 8/15/2018
Lorimar Winery plays 'Men in Black' for Movie in the Vines
Movie goers enjoyed a glass of Lorimar wine and a bag of popcorn as the sun set in the vineyards, Monday, July 30. Lorimar Winery invited the "Men in Black" galaxy defenders to the... — Updated 8/10/2018
By Codie Hays Community
SRCAR scholarship foundation awards 30 scholarships to local high school seniors
The Southwest Riverside County Association of Realtors awarded 30 scholarships July 10, to qualifying local high school students in 2018. Last year, they awarded 25 scholarships to... — Updated 8/10/2018
Lorimar to host Ladies Night Up in the Vines
Ladies night doesn't have to wait until the weekend, so get ready to relax and take a night off at Lorimar Winery, 7-9 p.m., Thursday, Aug. 9. With wine, beer, vendors, karaoke,... — Updated 8/2/2018
Beginning mermaid-themed cookie classes are available in Temecula
Friends and longtime cookie decorators Melissa Murray and Heather Impson are here in Temecula to share their tricks and techniques to decorate the perfect cookie for any occasion.... — Updated 8/2/2018
VFW Post 4089 to host Temecula's Back-to-School Bash for local students and teachers
Pencils, notebooks, rulers, markers, glue sticks, highlighters and copy paper are just some of the items that will be available at Temecula's Back-to-School Bash. Temecula Valley Veterans of Foreign Wars Post 4089 will host the... — Updated 8/2/2018
By Codie Hays Lifestyles
Learn to dance burlesque at Temecula Studio
Learn the ins and outs of burlesque dancing at Go-Go Dance Arts studio in Temecula. The unique class is small and intimate, usually only two to three people per class, and teaches the basic steps and moves of burlesque dancing. Sun... — Updated 8/2/2018
Rancho Springs Medical Center offers monthly breast-feeding class
Rancho Springs Medical Center is holding their monthly class for expectant mothers to learn the ins and outs of breast-feeding, 7-9:30 p.m. Thursday, Aug. 16. The class, offered through the Southwest Healthcare System, will help mo... — Updated 8/1/2018
By Codie Hays Sports
Olympic gold medalist to provide swim lessons in Murrieta Mesa
Learn from the best, and become the best, with backstroke and freestyle lessons from an Olympic gold medalist. On Saturday, Aug. 4, swimmers of all ages will have the opportunity to sign up for a swim clinic featuring United... — Updated 7/27/2018
'Pirates of Penzance' comes to Temecula Community Theater
The cast of "Pirates of Penzance" is bringing a lovable, unpredictable drama to the Old Town Temecula Community Theater. Since its original debut in 1879, "Pirates of Penzance" has... — Updated 7/27/2018
Vail Headquarters hosts Ramble on the Ranch Classic Car Show
Start revving the engines, applying a fresh coat of paint and driving out to the historic grounds of Vail Ranch Headquarters. Saturday, Aug. 4, is all about the classics; the bright colors, the suspension, the noise and the... — Updated 7/26/2018
City of Temecula to present 'Sundays in the Square'
As summer comes to a close, city officials in Temecula will present a new, family friendly concert series at Town Square Park in Old Town, Sundays in the Square. Sundays in the... — Updated 7/19/2018
Maurice Car'rie Craft Fair brings local goods to Temecula Valley Wine Country
Come and enjoy a glass of wine and a picnic lunch while shopping for local, tasty goods and handcrafted jewelry. Maurice Car'rie winery holds a craft fair every Friday through... — Updated 7/18/2018
Oak Mountain Winery to host comedy night benefiting Cause Fur Paws
Join Oak Mountain Winery for drinks, food and a good laugh at their inaugural Cause fur Paws Comedy Night. The event will be held July 21 from 6-9 p.m. and all money will be donated to the Cause fur Paws nonprofit organization.... — Updated 7/19/2018
Lorimar Winery brings axe throwing to the vines with Bad Axe event
Lorimar Winery called for guests to unleash their inner lumberjack or jane, and head to their Barrel room to participate in Bad Axes, axe throwing in the vines. The event allowed fo... — Updated 7/18/2018
By Codie Hays News
Temecula businesses recognize Old West heritage
A trip down the wooden boardwalks of Temecula's Old Town Front Street winding its way through historic buildings, antique stores and restaurants is a bit like stepping back in time... — Updated 7/13/2018
The Santa Rosa Plateau Nature Education Foundation celebrates 15th anniversary
Before diving into their next fiscal year in July, the Santa Rosa Plateau Nature Education Foundation celebrated their 15th anniversary as a nonprofit organization. Since being... — Updated 7/5/2018
Historic Vail Ranch Headquarters offers glimpse into the past with good old fashioned family fun
Vail Ranch Headquarters is not just a great place to shop, but also one of the most historically significant sites in the city. Just a few years ago most of the headquarters sat... — Updated 6/28/2018
Yoga 4 Hope in the Vines greets the sun
The cool, crisp morning didn't stop anyone from coming out to Temecula's seventh annual Yoga 4 Hope in the Vines on Sunday morning, June 17. Held at Galway Downs, this year's Yoga... — Updated 6/25/2018
Lorimar Winery presents 'Movies in the Vines'
Reserve a seat, grab a glass of wine and relax at Lorimar Winery this summer at their Movies in the Vines events. All summer long, Lorimar Winery will be hosting free movie screenings perfect for family outings or date night. Be... — Updated 6/22/2018
AR Workshop brings DIY to Temecula
With more and more people taking charge of their home improvement projects and websites such as Pinterest offering up millions of ways to freshen up the home it's no surprise that... — Updated 6/21/2018
Peltzer Winery kicks it up 'old school' with upcoming Block Party
Get ready to kick it old school at Peltzer Winery, 5-9:30 p.m., Saturday, June 23. To start off the summer, they will be holding a block party at the Crush House for a fun, wine-filled night. With good wine, comes a tasty dinner... — Updated 6/21/2018
For hot summer months, head to Oak Mountain Winery's cool cave for something sparkling
Kick off summertime and head to Oak Mountain Winery to enjoy their signature sparkling wines, entertainment and a new summer menu. At Oak Mountain, guests can gaze out into the 50... — Updated 6/20/2018
'Spa Scientist Barbie' event at Pennypickle's Workshop to show the science behind girly fun
The rumors are true: Science can be fun, and Temecula's Pennypickle's Workshop has an innovative and exciting way to show it. Professor Pennypickle will be holding a Spa Scientist Barbie workshop for the museum's "Girls... — Updated 6/20/2018
For owner, Murrieta bar is more than just a business; it's a life-saver
Opened around three years ago, Franklin's Cove in Murrieta has made a name for itself for its excellent service, atmosphere and food, but those aren't the only things which draw in... — Updated 6/16/2018