text:
E-Vehicle Woes: German Cities Remove E-Buses From Service After Bursting In Flames: "Fire Hazard"
Reposted from the NoTricksZone
By P Gosselin on 7. November 2021
E-buses in Germany a "fire hazard" as batteries can heat up to 1000°C. German cities taking vehicles out of service as a precaution.
Even after years of fine-tuning, electric vehicle manufacturers still seem unable to get e-vehicle technology to work as safely as it needs to for personal and public transportation.
German media, for example here, report that currently electric buses are being withdrawn from service in cities because they pose a fire hazard. Earlier in June of this year in Hanover, Germany, a major fire destroyed nine buses belonging to the Üstra transport company and so the company took the remaining buses out of service until the exact cause is determined.
"Not just the case in Hanover, it is becoming increasingly common for electric vehicles to be removed from service in cities, and the reasons are often down to a common cause: Fire safety," reports the online MK.
Stuttgart withdraw buses from service after fire
The Stuttgart transport authority also took buses out of service after an electric bus fire destroyed 25 vehicles. The MK also reports that the city of Regensburg also removed the same kind of electric bus from service for fear of fire.
According to the MK, the problem is the extremes heat generated by the vehicle's batteries, which can reach temperatures of 1000°C due to "thermal runaway".
15-meter safe parking distance
"In the process, the lithium-ion batteries release energy in an uncontrolled manner," reports the MK. "For the same reason, electric cars also repeatedly catch fire. The first e-cars are now only allowed to park at a distance of 15 meters because of the risk of fire."
Also in China e-buses were recorded bursting into flames as they charged:
Even e-scooters can burst into flames. The following example also shows how difficult it can be to extinguish e-vehicle fires.
Also read here: https://notrickszone.com/2021/06/11/electric-bus-inferno-in-hanover-germany-explosive-fire-causes-millions-in-damages/
Tags: Electric Buses, EVs, fire, Germany
VP Harris asks NASA to hunt for institutional racism in trees…
e-scooter?
Don't you mean an electric bike?
It definitely is not a scooter.
What ever the name is, it's burning suddenly.
Last edited 2 months ago by Krishna Gans
A fire bomb by any name will still burn as hot
Well its not a bicycle.
Nor is it a motor cycle.
Nor is it a moped
Its a small wheeled two wheeled motorised vehicle.
I think scooter is all you could call it.
I said an electric bike not bicycle do try to keep up
Trying to Play Nice
What is your definition of a bike? Everywhere I've ever been, it is short for bicycle.
Reply to Trying to Play Nice
Do da name biker mean anything
huls
It's another name for motorcycle, everywhere I've been. I have literally never ever heard anyone referring to a bicycle as "my bike". He would be ridiculed out of the city
The Dark Lord
Reply to huls
maybe the city … in the country, a bike is a bicycle … and it can refer to a motorcycle … depends on who is talking and who is listening … a kid says my bike … its bicycle … middle aged dude says my bike … its a motorcycle …
BobM
Reply to The Dark Lord
Ruleo
Where the hell do you live? I know now one that has ever referred to a bicycle other than 'bike'.
U.S.- both city and country.
Every American under the age of 16 would call their bike MY BIKE. How old are you or how short is your memory?
"I have literally never ever heard anyone referring to a bicycle as "my bike". He would be ridiculed out of the city"
My bike was my bike for decades. Only silly people insist on long words when short and sweet terms are readily available.
It was still "bike" when I went shopping for beginning first bikes and then later when it was time for more serious multi-gear bikes.
Everyone I rode with used "bike" almost exclusively.
The same went when I talked about my motorcycle.
Talking about the engine, mufflers, kick shifts, clutch, carburetor, fuel injection, oil and air filters, etc. all quickly focused exactly what bike means amongst motorcycle owners.
Michael S. Kelly
Where things really get contentious is when one is referring to a transcycle.
Depends on context. As the Dark Lord said when the little ones (teens and younger) say "bike" they're probably referring to their bicycle (bike is literally short-hand for bicycle), when the adults say "bike" they're probably referring to a motorcycle. (though some adults do still enjoy non-motorcycle bike activities)
some non-motorcycle bikes:
2021 Polygon Trid Dirt Jump Mountain Bike | Bikes Online (USA)
26″ Men's Mongoose PT26 Dirt Jump or Pump Track Bike w/ Rear Disc Brake, Copper 38675240490 | eBay
Indeed, Leo.
Bicycles have no engine, since it has an engine, it's not a bicycle.
Mopeds (MOtor PEDal) have an engine and pedals, this one does not have pedals, so not a moped.
That leaves us with either a motorcycle or scooter. As previously pointed out by myself and others, the characteristics of the vehicle in question fit that of a scooter rather than that of a motorcycle. So bottom line is that it's a scooter despite the limited idea a certain someone has in regards to what a scooter is.
ETA: another distinguishing feature between mopeds, scooters, and motorcycles is engine size/power. Mopeds have the smallest engines/power, motorcycles the largest, with scooters somewhere inbetween.
Last edited 2 months ago by John Endicott
Joao Martins
It definitely is burning.
The point is "burning", NOT the name of the thing!
For all those who clearly don't know what an e-scooter is
https://www.escooter.co.uk/
Yep, you were thinking of definition #2. Thoes aren't the only things only the market called scooters:
Razor Pocket Mod – 24V Miniature Euro-Style Electric Scooter, Vintage-Inspired Design, Hidden Storage below Cushioned Seat, Up to 15 mph and Up to 40 min Ride Time – Walmart.com
Ewheels BugEye 3 Wheel Scooter (discovermymobility.com)
double D'oh
Reply to John Endicott
You can't admit to being wrong I see. Well, when you wake up, you'll still be wrong. Too bad so sad.
Are those allowed on motorways?
Reply to Retired_Engineer_Jim
I have no idea what the laws are regarding scooter are vis-a-vis the motorways, however from the Artisan EVC Electric Scooter writeup
Artisan EVC Electric Scooter (artisanscooters.com)
It certainly sounds like some of them are: "Designed with the inner city in mind but equally capable on the open road, this L3 category learner legal electric scooter has performance to spare"
The point, of course, is that scooters aren't limited to what fretslider thinks of when he sees the word scooter, no matter how many naps he wishes to take when that fact is pointed out to him.
In the US depending on the State laws, they are not only allowed on the roads, but the driver is not required to have a driver's license depending on the maximum horsepower/speed.
Higher power output/speeds makes them motorcycles, thus requiring a driver's license.
Can you maintain a consistent minimum speed of 45 mph or 50 mph?
The Artisan EVC Electric Scooter apparently has a maximum speed of 46 mph and a range of 46 miles.
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2021/11/08/e-vehicle-woes-german-cities-remove-e-buses-from-service-after-bursting-in-flames-fire-hazard/#comment-3383628
Some more scooters that don't look anything like your idea of scooters:
Yamaha Scooters (yamahamotorsports.com)
And here's an EV scooter (which actually looks somewhat like the scooter in the video.
In most countries the definition of a scooter is it has a running board where you put your feet. The motorcycle has foot pegs and this tends to be the key defining difference. However I am sure there are exceptions out there.
Back in 1953, a movie "Roman Holiday" starring Gregory Peck and Audrey Hepburn was released.
A scooter was a main form of transportation in the film.
So popular, that there are modern "scooter" tours in Italy.
"Roman Holiday" Scooter Tour"
"Vespa Tour of Rome" "World's most famous scooter"
That you've lived sheltered parochial lives is not doubted.
That real scooters, not the expensive little toys, are known as scooters around the world, including the USA is obvious.
Last edited 2 months ago by ATheoK
1) The important part of the story is that it's bursting into flames
2) yes, it is considered a scooter. I know it's hard to tell from the video (you have to be watching closely), the legs of the guy sitting in front are initially together in front of him (behind the steering column) and not out on the sides (like the back passengers legs are) until he swings them out near the beginning of the video. On a bike (electric or otherwise) the legs would always be out on the sides of the bike.
scooter [ˈsko͞odər]
a light two-wheeled open motor vehicle on which the driver sits over an enclosed engine with legs together and feet resting on a floorboard.
a vehicle typically ridden as a recreation, consisting of a footboard mounted on two wheels and a long steering handle, propelled by resting one foot on the footboard and pushing the other against the ground.
I'm assuming you are thinking of definition #2 of Scooter. What is in the video fits definition #1.
goracle
I think it's dimensia Joe's scooter!!
It is truly ironic that the chemical hating greens should adopt chemical energy for all cars, trucks and buses. EVs may get regulated to death the was nuclear has been except this time the fear is justified.
Reply to David Wojick
It's more ironic that crazy climate deniers think they will freeze to death if we switch to unreliables .
These busses are proof that there is enough heat as long as there are some lithium batteries around (Even empty ones can end up in an amazing fire while conventional engines can't.That's how superior battery vehicles are)
+ these batteries are smart-batteries, they can set themselves on fire without any human assistance.That's real progress(ivism)
There may be some health issues and toxic waste and your lunges may collapse but everything is fine as no co2 is being released and that's what life is all about..
Reply to SxyxS
No worries if all liability is waived away.
Pay no attention to that Liability behind the curtain
I see what you did there…well played.
Unfortunately there is a huge amount of CO2 being emitted from a burning battery pack, along with the toxic fumes.
Disputin
Whence comes the CO2? Not from the battery.
Reply to Disputin
The batteries contain many different chemicals and substances and as a result emit various gases
Toxic fluoride gas emissions from lithium-ion battery fires | Scientific Reports (nature.com)
"Li-ion batteries release a various number of toxic substances as well as e.g. CO (an asphyxiant gas) and CO2 (induces anoxia) during heating and fire. At elevated temperature the fluorine content of the electrolyte and, to some extent, other parts of the battery such as the polyvinylidene fluoride (PVdF) binder in the electrodes, may form gases such as hydrogen fluoride HF, phosphorus pentafluoride (PF5) and phosphoryl fluoride (POF3). Compounds containing fluorine can also be present as e.g. flame retardants in electrolyte and/or separator, in additives and in the electrode materials, e.g. fluorophosphates, adding additional sources of fluorine."
https://www.nasa.gov/sites/default/files/atoms/files/nabw20_fire_gas_char_studies_liion_cells_batt_djuarez-robles.pdf
"lithium-based rechargeable cells can emit gases which may be harmful to humans and/or may form a combustible mixture in sufficient concentrations. Examples may include, but are not limited to, carbon monoxide (CO), carbon dioxide (CO2 ), hydrogen (H2 ), organic solvent vapors and hydrogen fluoride (HF)"
Absolutely. Most of the fire comes from the organic solvents used as an ion transport mechanism. That stuff is loads of carbon cooking off with their own internal oxidizer. CO2, CO and then all the Lithium and Nitrogen compounds – the smoke is a veritable lethal smorgasbord!
Jack Dyer
A pleasure to hear some people have some knowledge rather than all the other Facebook using millennials going yap, yap, yap about whether it is a bike or a scooter.
LOL the snark is strong is this one 🙂
Joe Shaw
Well, until we get the Mr. Fusion working, all vehicles are going to be powered by chemical energy one way or another.
The thought of a Tesla catching fire in a multistory parking garage brings up old disaster movies.
Especially if the garage is in a tall office building or apartment complex, full of people. Think Towering Inferno.
"Especially if the garage is in a tall office building or apartment complex, full of people."
And cars full of gasoline.
Reply to Speed
If the garage was full of EV's, the result would be much worse.
Yes, the Fire Department would just have to stand back and let everything burn.
They may surely pay attention nothing other start burning, wouldn't they ? 😀
"We've sent men to the Moon", surely we can develop a material to put out lithium – ion battery fires.
Max P
Sure…eventually. But, for the time being, the recipe for that material is; One part H2O and one part 'time'. The exact amount of each ingredient for this recipe depends upon how large the burning, lithium-ion, battery is. H2O can be replaced by silica sand under the right conditions; mostly where containment is more important than, immediate, suppression and the burning battery is, readily, accessible to be buried until it has burned out.
Not sure if I should put a /sarc tag here.
yeah … its called sand …
Another retired engineer Jim(@texasjimbrock)
Big problem is that these batteries seem to be at least somewhat self-oxidizing. But a good thick coat of concrete might do it.
Like the Russians did at Chernobyl?? How much stuff do you think they can carry on a fire engine?
Can you imagine what would happen if they tried the same solution as in The Towering Inferno?
Given that the EVs would probably all be together for charging purposes, I'd imagine that if one immolated, they all would, just like the 15 buses in the story.
Given that most EVs these days are connected to the internet, I also imagine that hackers could potentially start a fire in at least one EV in a bunch*.
(*what is the collective noun for EVs? A virtue of EVs, perhaps? A bomb of EVs?)
Immolation?
Christina Widmann
If several crows together are a murder, several EVs together should be called an arson.
Gasoline and diesel vehicles do not spontaneously combust. The same cannot be said of battery vehicles.
Reply to Wade
A short in the wiring of a parked (or running) vehicle will start a fire, but that's not the fuel spontaneously combusting. EVs will also have a lot more wiring to go wrong.
The Green Towering Inferno: Return to Reality
Think 911
Gregory Woods
and I am thinking of long vehicular tunnels…
D. J. Hawkins
Reply to Gregory Woods
A long, narrow, confined space under water, and an accident involving an electric vehicle. What could possibly go wrong?
In 2008 and 2015 lorries caught fire in the Channel Tunnel
The fires caused no end of trouble.
So European parking lots will become as expansive as those in the U.S.
Reply to ResourceGuy
But where? We need the space for solar panels and windmills….
ih_fan
Did you mean "explosive" rather than "expansive"?
Reply to ih_fan
Lithium? Reminds me of white phosphorus. Don't bother putting water on it.
Reply to Ron Long
Jeez, I just looked up at the TV and Barack Hussein Obama is telling stories at COP26. Maybe someone could drop some lithium on me?
I believe lithium is very effective in treating schizophrenia.
I thought that was cyanide..
Only one dose required, 'tis true, but the patient is more likely to survive.
Lithium is used predominantly for bipolar. It is not an anti-psychotic.
Was he telling the story about winning a peace prize while bombing brown people in the Middle East?
That one was a doozy.
Last edited 2 months ago by Derg
in my high school freshman science class, in '64 – the teacher dropped a pellet of lithium into a glass of water- it flamed up to the ceiling and left a black mark on the asbestos (?) ceiling- he didn't return the next year
I think that was more likely to have been sodium or potassium.
I taught chemistry for 30 years. I loved to drop lithium, sodium, and potassium into water. These three metals can be used to demonstrate progressive reactivity of elements on the periodic table. Chemistry students can be entertained and taught at the same time. They loved when an explosion occurred during any demo. But…this demo required safety procedures to be in place. If I were teaching today I would follow up with all of the ev fires online.
Reply to Pat
PCSMAZINTL
My chem teacher lost 2 or 3 fingers in one of his shows .
Turned him into an angry bastard.
Dave Fair
I saw the effects of "Willie Peter" on the human body in Vietnam.
The transition from horses to internal combustion (or steam) power was not smooth and trouble-free either.
You think there actually will be a transition to EV?
Eventually I think that there will be, after a few minor problems have been sorted out…
David Brewer
Yeah, like once the need for the average person to have a vehicle is sorted out.
Rick C
A defect in a single cell in a lithium ion battery pack can ignite and cause a cascade failure and major fire. A Tesla battery pack has nearly 7,000 cells connected in series/parallel to produce the required voltage and current. There's no such thing as 100% reliability. It's actually quite impressive that the quality control is good enough to keep the majority of electric vehicles from burning up.
Reply to Rick C
And laptops, and mobiles.
There's also a matter of scale. A laptop battery only has around 12 cells, a Tesla batter has 7,000.
And aircraft? They are talking about replacing passenger jets with electric power. Lordy me!
How about this 'minor' problem ?
There are currently about 1.4 billion cars in the world and by 2050 it is expected there will be 2 billion. Very few of them are currently BEVs or PHEVs (10.2m at the end of 2020 according to the International Energy Agency) The IEA also predicts on their best scenario that there will be c. 72m EVs by 2040 – still a drop in the ocean. Even if the IEA is out by a factor of ten (unlikely) there will still be almost twice as many non EV cars in the world.
And then there are all the Heavy Goods and Light Goods vehicles.
We already abandoned electric vehicles because they were not great. And those EVs were safer than today's. Plus they had battery exchange services, dead for fully-charged ones.
Studebaker's first car model in 1910 was an electric.
And then a Mr Henry Ford produced his Model T ICEV and the free enterprise, free market consumers made that car king of the roads.
You cannot carry cans of electricity to drive where there are no recharging stations, but the Ford Model T did.
Jeff Labute
Another problem with EVs is charging. Not necessarily the exorbitant time required to charge, but the number of charging stations that would be required in an average city. If every person had an EV, then every garage, or household, plus various city owned structures, apartment blocks, stores, airports, malls, etc would have dozens or hundreds each. You could be looking at 50,000 chargers in an average city. The amount of electronics to keep all this unreliable charging going on would certainly keep the wheels of industry churning forever. If a few percent of these units die every year, that will ensure no one will ever again be buy a playstation of xbox or TV or EV just to supply chips for all the vast number of replacement chargers, lol.
It's possible but not likely. As long as they have the lithium ion batteries in them, they'll never be fit for purpose. The first person to come up with a lightweight, long-range, and above all safe, battery for these things is likely to make a fortune but I shan't hold my breath.
CapitalistRoader
BEV's have been around for well over 100 years. It's a long time to hold one's breath.
Reply to CapitalistRoader
And there are so many of them on the road, in practical use.
As a percentage of the total number of cars on the road, "so many" is a quite a stretch.
As for practical, for a few people they might be. If it weren't for the subsidies, both in purchase price and road use taxes, there would be a lot fewer.
Did he really need to add a \sarc tag? 🙂
But "… a lightweight, long-range, and above all safe, battery …" certainly has not been around for "well over 100 years."
And that is precisely why I shan't be. After all that time they still haven't figured out the problem with the batteries and probably won't in the next 100 years either.
Yes, by now they should have succeeded after all that time, consumers instead favoured ICEV.
The customers are always right you know.
We need micro-scale thorium salt reactors in every car. Think a crash is bad now? Think of the contamination from a tractor trailer spilling its fuel in that case. Of course like fusion, they'll always be 10 years away.
Of course my internal image of such a vehicle is a little steam punkish – a little 10kg thorium module heats molten salt which generates steam for the steam engine. When power is removed from the module it quits reacting. So as long as the container is built tough enough, a crash would just mean the reactor would shut down. Though leaking molten salt and steam could be a real killer!
I don't think it'd be a practical idea with cars but trains, now there's an idea…..
And fill up with water periodically just like the old railroad system.
Reply to Another retired engineer Jim
Return of the old whistle stop?
What were these mostly imagined troubles?
Electric cars have been around for at least as long as ICE engines. ICE won.
Reply to Jeff Alberts
"A Lot Of People Don't Know That".
Drop into a general conversation the fact that EVs preceded ICE vehicles and enjoy the reactions.
Longer. Electric cars came first.
There were a number of years when horses continued to outnumber gasoline powered vehicles. Gasoline won.
Sunderlandsteve
Because it was demonstrably better.
Because cars beat out horses, therefore electric will beat out ICE?
If that's really the best you can do, you should apologize to the class for wasting our time.
Much longer, the first electric vehicle was made in 1838. It failed!
And don't forget that steam vehicles were the third horse in the race.
Richard S Courtney
There was a trouble free transition from steam and from electric vehicles that began as soon as the internal combustion engine was invented.
All the issues with EV's with our currently technology are known. The motors are pretty mature.. with the real remaining issue will be enough raw materials to manufacture them in high volume (especially rare earth elements).
If Li based batteries could be charged faster, wouldn't be such a fire hazard and we had enough raw materials to manufacture tens of millions of packs a year without creating an environmental disaster, they would work. Unfortunately what we have currently isn't the be all, end all solution and won't be. We need something different and there isn't really anything on the horizon to replace Li based batteries.
The last thing is supplying the enormous amounts of electricity to power all these anticipated vehicles. Renewables won't do it on a mass scale 24x7x365. Nuclear is the only long term answer and it is at least a decade away (if that).
I think if EV's were cost effective they'd be a great solution. I actually went and bought a plug a month ago to be my drive around town car and a backup if the loonies get in true control. But I won't take it on a trip.
Reply to rbabcock
Short of room temperature super conductors, there are no more improvements that are possible with the electric motor.
There are a lot of things that can be done, with current technology, that would make ICE better. They aren't being done because few people are willing to pay the price for those advancements.
The motors themselves aren't the problem, they're fairly good, efficient and do the job. It's the batteries that are the problem. Once you've solved the fire hazard problem you've still got the problems of low range, long recharge times and huge weights of batteries.
Obviously the solution is anti-matter.
paul courtney
MarkW: Now, that's just silly. If such a vehicle were hit by a photon torpedo, "the ship can't take it, captain!" (you have to imagine a scot saying that).
Don't forget battery energy density! Its about 40 to 1 in favour of ICE vehicles.
No surprise that the first-generation battery-powered motor vehicles (horseless carriages) were dubbed "Town Cars".
One would hope that we learned from those experiences. But, yet again, neither steam engines, steam locomotives or IC vehicles spontaneously combust.
Any battery system will be faced with the fact that enormous amounts of energy are aggregated and subject to release in a single-failure mode. ICE requires fuel, oxygen and spark all at the same time.
The transition was made by individuals making their own investment and use decisions. With a series of Five-Year-Plans, we'd be ass deep in horse shit.
Lee L
Maybe not. But it was voluntary and needed no subsidies.
Walter Sobchak
There really is a safe reliable electric bus technology that has been around for most of a century. It is busses powered by overhead trolley wires. It is still being used in San Francisco. But the warmunists are so besotted with Li Ion Batteries that they don't even think about it.
Joe Gordon
Reply to Walter Sobchak
Last time I was in San Francisco, the trolleys were not functioning properly. Largely an expensive tourist attraction these days. They ended up dropping us off next to some warehouse, waiting in a large crowd for a regular bus that never came. We eventually had to walk all the way across town (taxis have to be called – can't just hail one).
However, some cities are using a similar concept with more modern-looking busses with long poles attaching to a wire that charges the bus battery as it goes. The best part about this system is that it's mostly paid for by the government. They say they're "working" on the overheating battery problem. This system should become more economical than a diesel bus at about the exact time diesel fuel is outlawed.
Reply to Joe Gordon
When diesel fuel is outlawed, only outlaws will have diesel fuel.
I have a diesel truck with about an 700 mile range, unloaded. I can add an auxiliary tank and double the range. Let the cops in their EV squad cars and their electric helicopters chase me down. I don't have to outrun them. I just have to outlast them. 😜
Reply to H.R.
Some miscreant here in Southern Calirofnia try to outlast the police cars and helos in a chase, only to find out that the police just hand off the chase to the next jurisdiction. The miscreant never outruns or outlasts the police.
Indeed, you might outlast the first police car that spotted you, but they'll have long since called in backup along the way. A guy I went to school with ended up trying to out run from the police (for some stupid traffic violation) when he was a young driver. He ended up leading a half-dozen cop cars to his home. D'oh.
Even the fastest Ferrari, can't outrun a radio.
Yup. We had a saying w-a-a-a-y back in H.S.:
"You can outrun the man, but you can't outrun the radio."
Well aware of that when I wrote the above, but I'm sure you caught the winky.
That one was written for the imagery; the "lengths" 😜 the cops will have to go to for Possession of Diesel Fuel. "Oops! Ran the battery down to zero. It's a brick now, Fred. Damn those diesels!"
Then there was the guy who stole the Tesla. …
Now that was funny right there, I don't care who you are.
🤣 🤣
Did you dodge any human poop while in SF or did you use the cities app for avoiding it?
"There really is a safe reliable electric bus technology that has been around for most of a century. It is busses powered by overhead trolley wires."
Yes, and they work just fine and you don't have to worry about them causing unstoppable fires.
I remember the electric buses running in Winnipeg when I was young. Sometimes they would throw some impressive sparks from the connections to the overhead wires. I think they switched to internal combustion just to eliminate the overhead wires.
Reply to No one
Probably to make the leftist estheticians happy.
Those electric buses were called Trackless Trolleys in Philadelphia, PA. When I was young there were regular trolleys and their tracks all over the city then the trackless ones started to appear and eventually all the tracks were torn up. Finally the overhead wires were removed and all the buses were diesel and could drive anywhere. Riding over the tracks in the streets was always dicey, your tires could get caught, skewing the vehicle around.
This story was posted because it involved battery-powered electric busses. Let us not forget that petroleum powered busses burn too.
Orpington bus garage fire – live updates as 11 buses destroyed
About 30 buses had to be moved to stop the fire spreading even further
https://www.croydonadvertiser.co.uk/news/croydon-news/live-orpington-bus-garage-fire-2246043
n.n
Combustible or spontaneous combustion?
On the one hand, firefighters are able to try stopping the fire, not posssible with EV,
second hand, reason wasn't fuel, but the air condition unit that started burning.
@Speed PS
AC units "like" burnig, when the compressor was running hot, mostly a question of missing, defect ventilation / cooling of the compressor. That's why a burning AC has nothing to do where it's installed, car, house, what ever.
So, why didn't you read the article before linking to a non compatible story ?
The poster didn't mention that. That would put a whole new light on the subject, wouldn't it. I guess that's why it wasn't mentioned.
It was mentioned in the linked article.
Nowhere near as often. Gasoline fires can be put out. Lithium fires can't.
One more time, with vigor – fossil-fuel fires can be put out, lithium fires can't.
A little way down in your link, it seems the start of the fire on the first bus was electrical. Not confirmed, but it's believed that the fire was started by a fault in an air conditioner on top of the bus.
I'm guessing that either Speed didn't actually read the story he posted (Is Speed related to griff?), or he doesn't believe AC's on electric busses can catch fire.
Speed, the website you linked states: "this website understands the blaze was started by an air conditioning unit on top of one of the buses. This is yet to be confirmed."
and " …it just after 3.30am, and the fire was under control at 6.31am."
So what (in a garage) the towns bus's rooftop AC unit would be doing at 3.30 am ? Was it battery powered? If so what kind of batteries? Lithium?
Last edited 2 months ago by Vuk
Could have been some kind of electrical fault.
Burning air conditioning units will burn wherever they are, this one just happened to be attached to a bus.
"The 3:00am blaze …. An insurance report says a lithium battery in a charging drill overheated and caught alight"
If you have one of those battery powered vacuum cleaners or any other tools which might have lithium battery, do not leave on charge overnight or if no one is present in the house.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-10-16/broome-house-fire-prompts-lithium-battery-warning/100544902
" … do not leave on charge overnight … "
If you have one of those battery powered vacuum cleaners or any other tools which might have lithium battery, better to throw it away!
Reply to Joao Martins
Start with your phone 😀
Can't wait until The US Forest Service has one of the E-150s
light off in a nice, dry patch of timber…
No doubt they would try to blame the subsequent fire on global warming.
Maybe the current fleet of EVs can be shipped off to England and burned in Drax! If they can take the heat, that is!
We should try to maximize the glorious, Green technologies wherever they fit best; preferably in a large, open pit away from the water table somewhere!
Last edited 2 months ago by Abolition Man
Li+ reactors.
Is it possible to extinguish burning lithium? Of course it is. All you need is liquid nitrogen fire extinguishers. link I wonder how many hundreds of gallons of liquid nitrogen it would take to extinguish a burning Tesla. My inner twelve year-old really really wants to try the experiment.
Shhh… commieBob. Don't let that get out. Some bureaucrat somewhere will think that's brilliant.
Then, not only will we be paying for unreliables and subsiding EVs, but we'll be taxed up to our eyeballs so every fire department can have a liquid nitrogen firetruck.
Government doesn't solve problems. They create problems and then apply the wrong solutions, said solutions creating more problems which require more headcount to come up with new problems, and on and on it goes.
Hmm. Liquid nitrogen plus a lot of HEAT. That sounds like violently expanding GAS ( better known as an explosion).
I am pretty sure insurance firms are busily rewriting liability. Park garages might be liable, and house-owners should check nearby parked EV's, especially holiday apartments parking.
Maybe EV Safe-Zones will appear – elecro-Wokeness? Has to happen….
Reply to bonbon
And why don't EV manufacturers include one of these in the trunk/boot?
https://youtu.be/yO8cVWOqZcg
Reply to yirgach
It's still in tests ?
I came out of a store about a week ago and found that a Chevy Bolt had parked right next to me, ignoring GM's advice to park at least 50 feet away from anything. Scared me, and I got out of there fast!
If any vehicle parked next to you had a fire, once their tires light up any adjacent vehicle would ignite from the heat. If it makes you feel any better.
If it's not an electric, there is almost no chance that it will spontaneously combust. The makers of several electric cars are telling their customers to make sure they don't park close to anything combustible.
There are no makers of ICE cars doing the same.
At least when the old presenters of Top Gear where doing silly things with vehicles we knew from the start that it was not going to work and be entertaining to watch.
They were also right in calling people who believed in global warming econuts and viewed it as a sickness.
But unfortunately the loonies have taken over the asylum and we're all suffering.
The Clean Syndrome, starring Renewable Regret.
Last edited 2 months ago by n.n
But electric cars are so much CLEANER and GREENER than a fossil fuel car… Let's create a mandate that everyone must purchase only electric vehicles to save us all from climate!
(I wonder how many tons of pollutants and CO2 a burning electric bus adds into the atmosphere?)
Burning tires release lots of pollutants. Ban tires, just run on rims. I'm sure the resulting sparks won't start any fires.
What is the point when the electricity grid is supplied mostly from fossil fuelled generators?
There is a God yanno, one with a sense of humour and, with 'humour, 'Timing is everything'
Ta-dahhhhhh, enter from stage left: Auntie Beeb sometime earlier today.
(She can get some things right. Notta lot but 'some' and better than the Grauniad tha's fo'sure)
Headline:"How the humble battery can help save the world"
Its one of their 'video stories' – here's hoping it shows for everyone
The real killer, as we recognise from images in the story here, is the word 'humble'
'Passengers evacuated after e-Scooter 'explodes' on Parsons Green tubeIn shocking footage, sent to The Standard, clouds of smoke billow down the District Line tube as the flaming scooter is dragged on to the platform at 8pm on Monday night.
Passengers flee and can be heard coughing and spluttering from smoke inhalation after the lithium battery of the device exploded at the front of the carriage.'
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/escooter-explosion-parsons-green-tube-london-underground-b964083.html
There is literally nothing these green f-ing clowns can get right.
They should be called the green menace or green terrorists
At least it will be a green cremation on the way to the health food store.
For the same reason, electric cars also repeatedly catch fire.
I think they only catch fire once…
I think they catch fire consecutively….
The trouble is that vehicles on roads go through rather a lot of vibrations and shocks. Lead-acid batteries and their like have no problems with that, there is a liquid between the electrodes and such vibrations cause no internal damage. Now lithium-iron batteries its a different matter depending on construction. See https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/14613484211008112 for more information.
In essence, cylinder based lithium-iron batteries suffer from damage due to vibrations. Which probably leads to major failures over time. Until this is fixed, no EV based on cylinder based lithium-iron batteries should be considered as safe as ICE
Reply to ecoGuy
In essence, cylinder based lithium-iron batteries suffer from damage due to vibrations.
Ouch! They'll never be any good for off-road driving, then. I recently took a trip up to the northern tip of Australia, with thousands of km of dirt roads. The corrugations can really smash a vehicle about, even at 80kph. So much so that my lead-acid battery started failing after I returned. It was 9 years old, though. An EV would probably have self-combusted.
Petrol and diesel vehicles regularly go up in flames, should we be concerned?
No. Petrol and Diesel vehicles very rarely go up in flames as a result of the fuel source (despite what Hollywood would have you believe), electrical systems on ICE cars occasionally spark a fire but can be controlled easily. EV's are 3-10 times more likely to have a fire, dependant on age, frequency of use, bumps or knocks, etc.
I find we can usually put them out alright, except of course for the tires, catalytic converters and sometimes if there is a lot of fuel. Then you may need foam to smother the fuel on fire.
Haven't had to put out an EV fire yet, and hope I never have the opportunity; or to cut one apart to remove trapped occupants.
Speaking of which, it's started already..
Prices for battery grade lithium carbonate have gone up 300 per cent in the last year, reaching $28,765, while prices for nickel and cobalt have registered a 62.4 per cent growth year-on-year. Lithium supply shortages are also to blame for the price surge, as experts believe they will continue in the next few years.
Rising costs of lithium batteries to cause a hike in EV prices (msn.com)
Park your EV in the driveway, away from the house and run a lead out for safer overnight charging.
Robert Alfred Taylor
Reply to Peter K
And get the lead stolen for the copper?
If I was a high wealth individual investor or director on the board of a motor vehicle manufacturing business or similar and the global market for ICEV was highly competitive and profit margins were shrinking I would recommend a transition to EV, the potential profits from replacing the ICEV fleet with EV, providing recharging infrastructure after removing liquid fuel distribution facilities, recycling ICEV traded in for scrap value and other new for profit business opportunities.
Of course I would also lobby governments to legislate for ICEV removal from the roads to force the consumers to transition.
I would even consider selling part of my shareholding in renewable energy to invest in EV transition and related opportunities.
Last edited 2 months ago by Dennis
G YOWELL
Reply to Dennis
We no longer need Battery Electric transit buses. The original justification for Battery Electric buses was for their zero pollution attributes (PM, NOx, reduced toxicity), and latter CO2 reductions.
Since 2007 all diesels sold in USA are equipped with diesel soot filters. The cleanest diesels are 103% effective reducing PM, HC and CO pollution in air violation areas.They clean air violation air as they drive. Using bio and renewable diesels provides greater CO2 reductions than Battery Electric vehicles for most power generation modes used today in California.
Unfortunately, CARB's clean air policy is preventing clean air progress, CARB is too invested in ZEVs that they lost sight of their core job. Per the Clean Air Act their job is to reduce air violations. Believe it or not Battery Electric vehicles do not provide air quality violation mitigation.
The core problem is lithium, which is often used in tranquilizers. The batteries become tranquil, they get careless, they let heat build up and then they burst into flames. The batteries would be better made of sodium, although then they'd be subject to high blood pressure.
All this is confusing. Why does everything have to be so complicated? It used to be fun being ignorant and stupid, but now everybody is getting on my case about it. Why are smart people so mean?
Burn baby, burn!
Gregg Eshelman
So the only place that does electric buses right is Chattanooga, TN? They've run an electric shuttle bus service since the early 1990's. Aside from the initial federal grant to start the program, it's been funded by donations and a cut from downtown parking fees. Riding it on the loop between the downtown station and the old railroad yard, and from the station across the river, is free – though there are donation boxes on the buses and at the stations. AFAIK they haven't had any catch fire. Their first buses used lead-acid battery packs and they had a fast swap facility at the railroad yard station. They couldn't run all day and charging took too long. Their next buses had NiMH batteries that held enough charge to run almost all day and could top off enough charge fast enough to finish a day so they stopped doing battery swaps. When I went to Chattanooga a few years ago they were getting their third series buses with Lithium-Ion batteries. Those could run a full day without needing any recharging. Wouldn't be surprised if they're looking at Lithium-Iron-Phosphate now. That technology can be run down to nearly zero % charge without damaging the batteries, unlike Lead-Acid, NiMH, or Lithium-Ion. It doesn't matter that the energy density is less, compared to Lead-Acid, a 100 amp-hour Li-Fe-PO4 is equivalent capacity to a 200 amp-hour lead-acid that can only be safely drawn down to 50%. Li-Fe-PO4 also weighs less than other battery types, so that also works to improve vehicle range.
If you have a 1st, 2nd, or 3rd generation Toyota Prius (ignoring that the actual 1st gen was only sold in Japan) there's a company that has developed a Li-Fe-PO4 replacement for the NiMH battery. It holds more energy than the original battery and includes electronic controls that trick the car into charging it up more and drawing it down more so it can rely more on the battery than the engine at lower speeds. With the original NiMH battery it only charges up to about 90% of maximum capacity and won't discharge below the safe voltage for that chemistry.
Reply to Gregg Eshelman
If that's the CARTA bus service, they had a bus fire in 2020.
Joe Born(@jhborn)
I know nothing about battery chemistry, but I know that the Chinese company BYD claims LiFePO4 batteries don't catch fire the way lithium-ion batteries do. They started using BYD city buses in Indianapolis two years ago.
I know nothing about battery chemistry, but I heard that the Chinese company BYD claims LiFePO4 batteries don't catch fire the way lithium-ion batteries do. The Indianapolis city-bus company started using BYD buses two years ago. I haven't heard of any fires yet–but that doesn't mean they've had none.
Brooks H Hurd
When an electric vehicles starts smoking – RUN!
Anthony Banton
Battery tech is moving on/will move on.
We have refined ICE over 150 years.
EV battery tech, what 15 years (to any real degree)? (Tesla started 2006)
What is out there (EV batteries) now WONT be there in 20 or even 10 years time…..
This is one that deals with the fire risk ….
It's Chinese and backed by Warren Buffett.
So it wont fail …. the chinese will see to that.
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/03/01/buffett-owns-more-of-chinese-electric-car-maker-byd-than-general-motors.html
Last edited 2 months ago by Anthony Banton
Carlo, Monte
Reply to Anthony Banton
The Search For The Magic Battery continues…
"Going Green" will burn you every time!
Climate Economics Electric Vehicles
San Francisco EV Owner Mines Cryptocurrency Using Free Electricity
EV Chargers To Be Separately Metered
Electric Vehicles Opinion
I-95 Ice Storm Overnight Traffic Jam – Imagine you were Stuck in an EV


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text:
Home Columns Before Our Time Before Our Time: The post office, a multi-tasking service …
Before Our Time
Before Our Time: The post office, a multi-tasking service …
The post office has long been a favorite spot for locals to see friends, spread information and gossip, and hold impromptu conferences.
A 1922 photo shows 10 people and a dog clustered out front next to a huge table and chairs made of granite chunks and log sections. A 1940s photo shows a waiting line of animated customers stretching out the front door, down the porch steps and onto North Circle Drive.
The post office has been located all over the valley during the past 121 years, but where or how it's housed makes little difference.
The first one, officially designated "Rayneta" in 1893, was far from the center of commerce. It was located near the Strawberry Creek bridge that today marks the entrance to the Idyllwild Arts campus. Postmaster George Hannahs tucked it into the general store he strategically situated there to serve travelers arriving from Hemet.
The postmaster po- sition was a summer appointment for 30 years because until the Idyllwild Inn began year-round operation in 1923, essentially everyone had primary homes elsewhere. Hannahs, whose winter home was in San Jacinto, held the Rayneta position for five summers before relinquishing it to a series of annual appointees.
Walter Lindley opened his ill-fated sanitarium in 1901 and welcomed the post office to its premises. It was renamed "Idyllwild," and Hannahs returned as postmaster.
When fire destroyed the sanitarium in 1904, Hannahs moved the post office to his "Wildwood" tract, probably into his new store located about where the fire station sits today. (He had a knack for snagging incoming tourists — Lower Pine Crest Avenue was then the main thoroughfare from Hemet.)
Hannahs landed an appointment as San Jacinto's full-time postmaster in 1908, and the Idyllwild office migrated to the Idyllwild Inn. He returned in 1914, and Strong and Dickinson's Idyllwild Mountain Park Co. soon evicted him, sending the post office back to his store.
In 1917 Claudius Lee Emerson bought the Idyllwild Inn and built a new general store facing it across what is now Park Lane. Hannahs was invited to occupy a corner of that store, but as the village grew, the store needed that space. So in 1925 Emerson moved Hannahs and the post office back to the Idyllwild Inn, giving it its own entrance for the first time.
Hannahs died in 1931 and was succeeded by his widow, Sarah, before Harry Wendelken took over for 15 years starting in 1934. His first project was lobbying Washington for more frequent mail delivery between November and April. He only got it increased from three days a week to four.
By 1941, when the store burned down and the resort was in receivership, the post office finally had its own building, which is now the hair salon and candy store next door to the venerable log cabin real estate office on North Circle.
Postwar population growth demanded larger facilities, so in 1961 the post office moved to Ridgeview Drive in the building now occupied by Nature's Wisdom. By the late 1970s, that space became too cramped, leading the post office to its present location in Strawberry Plaza.
Jon King is 2022 Ernie Maxwell Community Spirit Award recipient
Idyllwild women run in L.A. Marathon
Creature Corner: October 19, 2017
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Indian folk songs celebrate the peacock's dance and magnificent array of feathers.
A male peacock spreads his fan hoping to to impress the ladies around him.
Their artistic eyes, crown, angles and colourful tails are depicted in many silk paintings and all forms of Indian art.
Despite their bright, fluorescent colours, they are surprisingly well camouflaged in the forest.
The glossy terracotta feathers (close up below) blend well with soil and foliage.
Permalink Submitted by Chandra Ghosh Jain (not verified) on 18 April, 2012 - 16:05.
Looks wonderful. Never knew that one day you will capture it all in your blog.


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In this latest episode, sponsored by DoorDash, the gang reviews Shazam! Sonny is loving the Criterion Channel. JVL reminds us of Hoppy the Marvel Bunny and other DC absurdities. Vic rewatches The Final Countdown. Plus, baseball and rum!
In this latest episode, sponsored by Calm, the gang discusses The Beach Bum and The Dirt, the Mötley Crüe biopic. JVL has strong feelings about the state of Florida. Sonny explains why he's not watching the Final Four. Vic recommends movies on Daily Motion.
In this latest episode, sponsored by Quip and Robinhood, Vic, JVL, and Sonny discuss Jordan Peele's Us. Sonny admits his fear of The Ring. Vic goes golfing with a Sub-Beacon friend. JVL brings Sub-Beacon swag!
The HBO Theranos documentary The Inventor comes in for a thrashing. Sonny and Vic do a beer tasting at Anheuser-Busch. JVL gets hot over horology and Basel World. Plus a Lenten update!
The guys tackle Captain Marvel. Does Sonny think Wonder Woman is better? Vic takes a movie bathroom break. JVL witnesses a dishwashing atrocity. Sonny and Vic explain drinking games to JVL.
In this latest episode, sponsored by Quip and Robinhood, the Sub-Beacon discusses Steven Soderbergh's High Flying Bird and the battle between athletes and owners. Sonny says basta! to different kinds of pasta. JVL bids a fond farewell to Twitter. Vic thinks vodka-kombucha is a great idea. Plus reflections on the great Alex Trebek.
On this special micro episode of the Sub-Beacon, the gang discusses last night's Oscars. Green Book (and Sonny—or is it JVL?) was the big winner. What other surprises did the show have in store for us?
In this latest ribald episode, the Sub-Beacon discusses Cold Pursuit and the Dan Mallory controversy—Sonny asks if readers can love the work but hate the writer. JVL has big LEGO plans. Vic is a fan of Emmy Rossum.


Having just put down Liz Nugent's fabulous "Unravelling Oliver" I immediately opened "Lying in Wait." And this amazingly talented writer's second novel is, possibly, even more stunning than her début book.
How exciting it is to discover such talent, even though everyone else clearly knew about Ms Nugent from the outset.
The story of "Lying in Wait" is, as in her fist novel, told from the points of view of the various characters, in their voice and from their own unique perspective, and this time this stylistic device works seamlessly.
The story begins in 1980 and ends in 2016, though this is, essentially, a novel of the 1980s, with spot-on references to the music and TV shows of the days. There is even one delicious reference to shoulder pads.
And with that opening sentence, we are led into a world of lies, of cover ups, manipulation, truths, all in an ever-tightening web of intrigue and suspense.
This is such a gripping novel that I raced through it way too quickly, gobbling up the pages to see how this chilling, mesmerising, exciting thriller would end.
We inhabit the claustrophobic world of Avalon, a beautiful gracious home which plays such an important role in the novel. Avalon is the magnet which keeps Lydia living there, declining the chance to study ballet in London, refusing ever to go away on holiday, hardly venturing out into Dublin, such is her love for her childhood home.
Lydia, her husband Andrew and their only child Laurence live a strange, tense existence in this beautiful home which dominates their lives.
The repercussions of that opening line, in which Annie Doyle is killed, are the structure of this book, as we see how the killers handle the crime, how Annie's family reacts, and how the ripple effects of this one single shocking event spread ever outwards, over the decades.
This is an absolutely riveting thriller, and confirms Liz Nugent as a huge talent.
After reading both of Ms Nugent's novels in a week, I'm a huge fan.
How is it possible that this stunning novel eluded me for 2 years?
I sat up in the misty Himalayas, wrapped in a duvet against the damp chill, and read and read and read and didn't go exploring. Just gobbled up this dark, gripping, clever book.
And from that sentence on, we start unravelling the man behind the public persona of handsome, urbane, successful Oliver Ryan.
The format of the book, telling the story mainly in flashback, and always from a different person's perspective, is initially a little unsettling. For the first few chapters, until the characters all settled into place, I had to keep double checking who was now speaking, but after a while, as the story proceeds, the cleverness (and the consummate skill) of hearing all these different voices, from different time frames, and seeing different perspectives and views add to the mystery.
"Unravelling Oliver" is a psychological thriller of note.
Oliver is a man who has just beaten his wife into a coma in the opening moments of the book. He is a man with many secrets. And yet, such is the skill of Ms Nugent's spare prose, that there are moments when we feel genuinely sorry for this manipulative man.
There are so many layers to the story, and as you the reader, peel back each new layer, the story gets progressively deeper and more mysterious. With hindsight, you realise that echoes and precursors of the truth behind Oliver are scattered throughout the book.
With hindsight, we realise that these words – well, some of them – could apply equally to Oliver. Oliver is not heroic, but he does have secrets that he will not and cannot share.
This is a story with dark tragedy at its centre, but yet there are moments of pure beauty, too.
Books and stories, and the telling of stories, and the not telling of stories, are all part of the fabric of this clever book. There are twists and turns right up until the closing paragraph.
Ireland per se isn't a character as such in the book, but the social situation and the mores of 1970s Dublin, are a leitmotiv running through the book, influencing the decisions and behaviour of the characters.
A great read. A gripping story. Totally recommended.
If you would like to buy the book after reading this review, here you go.


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Colburn / Conservatory / Student Resources / Safety Policies and Protocols
All students are required to follow safety policies and protocols to protect themselves and the entire community from Covid-19. While the vaccine provides significant protection, it is possible to have a breakthrough infection, and it is critical to have multiple safety measures which, in combination, will greatly reduce the risk of contracting the virus. In addition, the state of California and the Los Angeles County Department of Health have orders (requirements) and guidelines that the School must adhere to in order to have students, faculty and staff on campus.
It is important to note that state and county orders and guidelines may change at any time and without notice, which may therefore also change these policies and protocols.
As we begin the fall semester, we will have a small number of unvaccinated Conservatory students who were unable to be vaccinated (or fully vaccinated) before arriving on campus. In general, this is due to the lack of access to the vaccine in their home countries.
Our safety policies and protocols are divided into three phases:
Protocols for unvaccinated/partially vaccinated (not fully inoculated) students arriving from abroad (not including Canada), who per CDC guidelines have a required 7-day quarantine.
Protocols for partially vaccinated OR not fully inoculated students arriving from within the US, or students who have completed Phase 1.
Protocols for fully vaccinated students.
We anticipate having a fully vaccinated student body by early October. Even after that date, students are asked to take all possible safety precautions to ensure the health of the community and the continuity of in-person study, including but not limited to:
wearing a mask in indoor public spaces or in crowded outdoor settings;
staying 6 feet away from other people whenever possible;
avoiding crowds and poorly ventilated spaces;
washing hands often;
covering coughs and sneezes;
cleaning and disinfecting living spaces frequently;
monitoring health daily and not going to lessons, ensembles, classes or any activities if not feeling well.
Protocols for unvaccinated/partially vaccinated (not fully inoculated) students arriving from abroad (not including Canada) – required 7-day quarantine
Quarantine Timeline
Day 1: Arrival to Colburn + rapid test + negative PCR test taken within 72 hours of arrival in LA
Day 2: Rapid test + 1st dose vaccination* if both Day 1 and Day 2 rapid tests are negative*
Day 3: Rapid test + PCR test (off campus)
Day 4: Rapid test
Day 8 – quarantine complete: follow behaviors for Phase 2
*Students arriving from abroad with only one vaccine dose must immediately schedule their 2nd dose and notify Housing and Residence Life of the appointment date.
All quarantined students will need to follow a strict quarantine in their suite.
Unvaccinated students will be housed in single rooms with other unvaccinated students in the same suite.
Students may only leave their suite to pick up meals and/or practice alone in assigned practice rooms only (pianists or percussionists only; all others may practice in their room following quiet hours guidelines), or as specified for testing/vaccination.
Students may leave the building, only to:
Take a PCR test 3-5 days after arrival.
Receive the 1st vaccine dose of their chosen vaccine.
Students must remain masked and socially distanced at all times when outside of their suites.
Quarantined students will undergo daily rapid testing for all 7 days.
Rapid testing will be done with Security, at a specified time.
All Quarantined students will be required to submit the LiveSafe app "Daily Health Check" daily
Protocols for partially vaccinated OR not fully inoculated students arriving from within the US, or after Phase 1
Classrooms will have seats that are appropriately distanced 3 feet apart.
Students in Phase 2 will have a rapid test 2 times a week until fully inoculated.
Rapid testing will be done with Security, on specified days of the week/times.
All students will be required to submit the LiveSafe app "Daily Health Check" daily.
Aerosol Instruments in Phase 2
Only fully inoculated students may remove masks indoors to rehearse or perform (see Phase 3). During Phase 2, students who play aerosol instruments may only remove their masks outdoors.
Lessons must be over Zoom or outdoors.
Performance classes (e.g. studio class, chamber music, brass class, etc.) must be attended, but students may not remove masks at any time and may only observe, unless the performance class/ensemble is held outdoors.
Protocols for Conservatory vaccinated students
All students must be masked at all times outside of their suite, and socially distanced when possible.
All fully vaccinated students will have a rapid test once a week.
Rapid testing will be done with Security, on a specified day of the week/time.
Aerosol instruments in Phase 3*
Fully vaccinated students who play aerosol instruments may remove masks to rehearse and perform, but must keep the mask on while not playing (e.g. during extended rests, while listening to instructions, etc.).
*Subject to change according to Department of Health orders.


Agatha, 60, had married a man 25 years her senior. He had one son who lived outside the US and was not close to his father. Agatha and her husband had a lot of good times until he began to show signs of dementia. Before long, Agatha was a full time caregiver. She lost her husband within two years of the emergence of his symptoms.
Now, Agatha finds herself in charge of everything her husband had handled before: investing, management of retirement funds, household repairs, maintenance, and decisions she had never made in her life. She was not financially literate when she got married and she feels extremely vulnerable now. There is no adult child to step in and help. Her husband's son did not come to the funeral. She is a client at AgingParents.com where we fill in the gap and get her in the hands of honest professionals who can assist with all the daunting tasks before her. When there are adult children in a situation like this, they can generally figure out what to do, but here guidance from professionals can be extremely helpful and reassuring.
The first piece of advice she receives is to avoid any important decisions while she is still in the throes of grieving and trying to set priorities. Newly widowed people make perfect targets for scammers and manipulators. We warn her to be very cautious about anyone who approaches her and to seek legal advice. Agatha needs to inform all the entities connected with the estate that her husband has passed, sending them the death certificate. These include Social Security, the bank, the financial institution where her late husband's IRA is held, the insurers and others. Together, we make a list. If the son were capable or interested he would be doing this work with her, but he is not going to help. I refer her to a competent attorney colleague and a tax preparer who will assist her in administering the estate, which means paying the taxes and any debts of the trust, other matters and ultimately getting inherited funds to the named heirs.
In our discussion, it is clear that Agatha has no income. She does inherit the house, which has considerable value and there are funds on hand that will support her for a time. At 60 she is not eligible for taking Social Security for herself yet, but she is eligible for survivor's benefits from her husband's Social Security. She hadn't thought of that. She is advised how to apply. She makes appointments with the lawyer and the accountant so she can get her bearings. She also gets referred to a competent financial advisor, an expert on Social Security and whose fees are less than what advisors usually charge. She expresses her relief.
Agatha is like so many widows who have never handled finances by themselves before. She needs help not only to navigate through her responsibilities now but to become well educated about her money going forward. At AgingParents.com we are essentially taking the role of what an adult child would be doing for a newly widowed aging parent: giving guidance and direction, step by step, keeping a watchful eye. There is a great deal of work, there are legal and financial consequences for not knowing what to do, and while grieving, a person has to learn new things. It is daunting.
The takeaway for adult children with aging parents who are heading predictably toward the end of their days is to prepare yourselves to be of help to the parent who is going lose the spouse or partner. Review the family trust to see who is named as the administrator. Find the location of funds that will need to be distributed as inheritances. Line up the reliable lawyer, accountant or tax preparer in advance. If you are not clear about how the surviving spouse will be supported or cared for if care is needed, explore your options ahead of time. It is much harder to do things without any plan in mind when you, yourself are grieving a loss. We advise everyone who has the opportunity to do so to educate yourself about hospice, in case it becomes appropriate. It is a service paid for by Medicare that offers care, support and help when end of life is predicted within six months and after loss of a loved one. Hospices offer post-death checklists, comfort and bereavement groups.
This is hard stuff for all of us. Facing our mortality and that of our loved ones is challenging. Yet, we see the most conscientious, forward thinking adult kids in families doing admirably in the aftermath of a parent's passing. We hold them up as examples of managing as painlessly as possible. Preparation makes a great deal of difference.


TTC News Archives-Trans Texas Corridor: Proposed Texas constitutional amendment still leaves "wriggle room" for private developers.
Proposed Texas constitutional amendment still leaves "wriggle room" for private developers.
Lawmakers in Austin and across the country are moving to rein in eminent domain authority after last week's Supreme Court decision that broadened government's authority to seize property for economic development.
Republican lawmakers in the Texas House and Senate introduced companion versions of a constitutional amendment that would prohibit eminent domain seizures purely for economic development.
In Washington, Sen. John Cornyn, R-Texas, offered federal legislation that also would limit eminent domain. And officials say at least four other states are considering new restrictions.
"We need to restore the power of eminent domain to public use and not private use," Mr. Cornyn said.
Last week, a divided Supreme Court ruled on a case involving a development in New London, Conn., granting local governments broad power to seize property for the purpose of generating tax revenue.
However, the court also went out of its way to note that its decision doesn't preclude state governments from banning or restricting eminent domain – the power of the state to seize private property without the owner's consent.
Even so, the ruling caused widespread fear that the table had been tilted too much toward developers who, like the Dallas Cowboys now acquiring land in Arlington, seek government's help in obtaining prime real estate for their projects.
That fear might result in a national movement to limit powers of eminent domain.
Larry Morandi, a land use expert at the National Conference of State Legislatures, said he has received queries from legislative staffers in four states other than Texas looking to restrict use of eminent domain: Idaho, Oklahoma, New Jersey and Virginia. On Monday, Missouri Gov. Matt Blunt announced the creation of a special task force to study eminent domain laws.
Earlier this year, likely in anticipation of the court decision, lawmakers in Utah and Nevada passed laws limiting the use of eminent domain, Mr. Morandi said. In 2004, lawmakers in about a dozen states attempted either to do the same or to ban eminent domain altogether. Only Colorado was successful. In Georgia, an attempt to ban the practice failed.
Mr. Morandi predicts additional attempts when legislatures reconvene across the country in 2006.
Still, critics of the proposed amendments warn that they may not sufficiently protect homeowners.
The memory remains vivid for Jeff Molenburg: sitting helpless and enraged on the curb while a bulldozer razes the home where he raised his family for 18 years. He's never watched the videotape he made to document the most frustrating event of his life. He doesn't have to. "You still dream about it years later," Mr. Molenburg said.
Nearly a decade ago, he and 125 homeowners in the Richland Park East subdivision in Hurst were forced to rebuild their lives after their homes were seized to make room for North East Mall's expansion. Even though most residents were paid fair market value for their properties, Mr. Molenburg said, he's still stewing over the process, which felt unjust.
Some Arlington homeowners are feeling the same way about the Cowboys' new stadium.
Arlington has bought about a dozen properties needed for the 75,000-seat stadium, and the City Council was expected to approve the purchase of 10 more Tuesday night.
But officials also have identified 51 properties that they are willing to take by eminent domain.
Dana Berliner, a senior attorney at the Institute for Justice and one of the lawyers who represented homeowners in the Supreme Court case, said the language in the proposed Texas constitutional amendment leaves "wiggle room" and may not stop governments from invoking eminent domain for economic development.
"Texas certainly has been a place where there has been some significant abuses of power," Ms. Berliner said, citing the Hurst case, which she says was one of the worse condemnation cases she's ever seen. "It's a place that needs more protection than it's got right now."
While the issue is not on the legislative agenda for the special session in Austin, a spokeswoman for Republican Gov. Rick Perry said that he is concerned about personal property in Texas and willing to examine the issue.
Rep. Frank Corte Jr., R-San Antonio, introduced the eminent domain measure on Monday. He said such powers should be used only for projects such as water lines, roads, electricity development and similar public works.
It's "totally wrong" to take someone's home from them in order to turn over the land to another private owner for redevelopment, he said.
"I think that goes against what our founding fathers fought for in defense of their homes," he said. "I think it goes against what Sam Houston and Davy Crockett fought for in Texas."
Staff writers Todd Gillman in Washington, Karen Brooks in Austin and Jeff Mosier in Arlington contributed to this report.
Cintra/Zachry asks FHA for a $320 million loan.


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VPN, which is short for Virtual Private Network, is a way of connecting to a remote server and being able to access online content through it as an alternative to doing it directly. In essence, the hosting server acts as a proxy, so provided that you have a Virtual private network client on your computer or mobile device and you input the required login info to be able to connect to the hosting server, you could browse internet sites or download files which you may not be able to access at all directly. Some websites and online services, for instance, are available only in specific countries, so in the event that you are not able to access them, you can use a VPN, or a hosting server, that's situated inside that country. This way it shall appear as if you're accessing the service/website from the country and you could get around the restrictions. There are companies which offer VPNs as a standalone service, but we have decided to offer the service with our internet hosting packages, which means that if you host your internet sites on our web servers, you can take advantage of the VPN access which we provide at no extra cost.
If you use a shared hosting package from our company, you can find the Virtual private network hosting servers list and the login credentials which you need to use in the respective section of your Hepsia Cp. We keep expanding the number and the location of the hosting servers all the time, so with simply a few mouse clicks you'll be able to mask your real location and appear as if you're in NY or Amsterdam, for instance. This service shall give you more freedom because you'll be able to access any content that's restricted within your country either by your Internet company or by the site offering a particular service and all it requires to do that is to be able to connect to any of our servers. We also offer a tool, which will filter all images and any ads that surface on a given internet site in order to enhance your loading speed and to save you the extra traffic from content that you may not want to see. Our service offers you the ability to access any blog, streaming service or social network around the globe effortlessly.
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All VPS web hosting packages which are set up with our innovative in-house built Hepsia Control Panel offer VPN access at no additional charge on top of the monthly Virtual private server fee and you could find everything you need in order to use this service within the Virtual private server section of your account. This includes the hostname and the login details for the VPN client on your end and the locations of all servers which we have as to enable you to select the most appropriate one based upon what and where you'd like to access. The connection shall consistently be encrypted, so you'll not have to worry that another person could see what sites you visit or where you really live. The VPN filter, which you can switch on through Hepsia, will filter ads and will compress images so as to save you traffic and to boost your browsing speed. With this free service, you'll be able to use any online service regardless of whether it is blocked in your home country or if the access to it is restricted only to selected countries.
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DO MORE – SAVE MORE!
Sell your property under your own terms, at your own time while still receiving expert advice! Sellers choosing the Owner Assisted option will receive exposure on REALTOR.ca, OptionsRealtyLakeland.ca, and our many social media platforms.
*Potential savings utilizing Options Realty Lakeland Owner Assisted Package versus paying 7% on the first $100 000, and 3% on the balance of selling price.
Prior to a ruling by the Federal Government Competition Bureau in 2010, access to the Multiple Listing Service was limited to Real Estate Brokerages that offered "full services" when listing a property. It did not matter if this Brokerage was a Discount Brokerage, or a more traditional Full Service Brokerage; if the home was listed on the MLS® System, the REALTOR was required to enter into an agency relationship with the seller.
The most significant change that came about from this rule change was that REALTORS are now able to list a property on the MLS® System without entering into an agency relationship with the seller. This has opened up the doors to alternative real estate models that allow the Brokerages to choose what services they wish to offer. A Brokerage is now able to list a property on the MLS® System and then have no more involvement in the sale of the property. This type of listing in called a "mere posting" and is the basis for our "Owner Assisted MLS® Listing Service".
Call us today and one of our representatives would be happy to explain to you how our program works. If you would rather have this first meeting in person, we can do this too!
Once you have chosen which "Owner Assisted" Package you want, we will get started on compiling the information needed to complete the listing contract.
Once we have all the information necessary, we will call you to make an appointment to go over the contract, decide on pricing, take measurements and photos, and collect our fee.
We will then go back to our office and load your property onto the MLS® System which will display your property on REALTOR.ca, the most visited real estate website used home buyers in Canada. Your property will also appear on a number of other Real Estate Websites in Canada via the DDF (Data Distribution Facility) operated by CREA (the Canadian Real Estate Association). Lastly, your property will be listed on OptionsRealtyLakeland.ca and our Facebook page.
With your property priced right, and all the exposure you will receive from having your property on the MLS® system, third party websites, our website and Facebook page, you should expect to hear from Buyers and Buyer's Agents very soon. Do More – Save More.
Using forms and contracts that we provide you with, write up the offer to create a legally binding contract. Or, if you don't feel comfortable with this stage of the sale process we can help you with that too! All you need to do is add our "Negotiations, Contracts, and Conveyancing" package for an additional $1299+GST, and we would be happy to assist you with this very crucial stage of the sale process.
Once all of the conditions have been removed from the contract, all that is left to do is convey the deal to your lawyer who will look after the necessary paperwork and title transfer. Your lawyer will also work to protect your interests, and ensure that everything goes smoothly until possession day.
Extend existing listing for an additional 6 months.
* GST applicable. The Extension is for an existing listing, providing it has not expired on our system.
Understanding Buyer's Agent Compensation – As your listing will be seen by all the local REALTORS through their own private database, you should be prepared to handle a situation where you are contacted by a Buyer's Agent looking to show your property.
Buyer's Agents are typically paid a split based on what the Listing Agent charges their client to list the property. Depending on the property and the market in which it is listed, this could be 7% on the first $100,000 and 3% on the balance of sale price, in which case the Buyer's agent would typically receive 3.5% of the first $100,000 and 1.5% of the balance.
In the case of your listing, Buyer`s Agents have not received any incentive to show or sell your property, as they are not being offered any compensation. Simply put "No Compensation" equals "No Cooperation". In order receive cooperation from the majority of Buyer's Agents, we recommend that you offer a cooperating commission to any Buyer's Agent that brings you an offer.
Does this mean that you have to offer 3.5% of the first $100,000 plus 1.5% of the balance? Absolutely not, Buyer's Agents know that increased competition in the marketplace has eroded those hefty commission rates, and are quite often willing to cooperate for less money. While it is totally up to you, or if, you will offer a cooperating commission, we highly recommend that you offer a minimum of 1% of the sale price in order to garner the cooperation of the Buyer's Agents.
Be wary of other FSBO (For Sale By Owner) Brokerages that do not discuss Buyer's Agent Commissions with you, while trying to sell you their services. Of course, if you sell your home directly to the Buyer, all of this will be a moot point, and you will save yourself thousands of dollars.
We are progressive. We offer a number of ways for our clients to save money: Full Brokerage Services at a Fixed 2% Commission Rate or Owner Assisted MLS® Listing Service.
Proudly serving Bonnyville, Cold Lake, Elk Point, St. Paul.


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Library Policy and Advocacy Blog
an informal forum for sharing ideas about the key policy and advocacy challenges and opportunities for libraries around the world
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7 Days to Human Rights Day: Libraries and Freedom from Discrimination
3 December 2018 – library-policy
In the first of seven daily blogs in the run up to Human Rights Day, and to mark the International Day of Persons with Disabilities, today's post looks at Article 7: Freedom from Discrimination.
Article 7 of the Universal Declaration on Human Rights includes the statement that: 'All are entitled to equal protection against any discrimination in violation of this Declaration and against any incitement to such discrimination'.
While discrimination comes in many forms, it is undeniable that people with disabilities are particularly exposed to it. Thanks either to active prejudice, or a failure to take account of their needs, they often experience less access to opportunities to learn and gain skills, and in turn greater levels of poverty and unemployment.
Libraries have a duty to all of their users. In a number of countries, library laws and policies underline that users with special needs deserve specific support.
This makes sense. Those facing greater difficulties to integrate into society may have greater need for information, for example to identify opportunities or support, or find guidance for dealing with health issues. They of course, also, have equal rights to education (Article 26), free expression (Article 19), and participation in the cultural life of the community (Article 27), all rights that libraries help realise.
The Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities, of which 3 December is the anniversary, underlines these points, as a presentation from this year's World Library and Information Congress stresses.
In order to deliver this, libraries are not only looking to ensure that their existing services are accessible, but in many cases are designing specialised programmes to reach out to users with disabilities. Such programmes, while 'positively' discriminating in favour of people with disabilities, can make an important contribution to ensuring 'equity' – i.e. that everyone enjoys the same outcomes.
This blog is necessarily short. A survey of libraries carried out last year by IFLA's Section on Libraries Serving People with Special Needs (LSN) offers a wider view. And we know that there is still more taking place beyond this.
Library Services and Universal Design
The idea of Universal Design refers to the idea that spaces – and services – should be designed to make life easier for everyone.
Indeed, this was the subject of a session at the latest World Library and Information Congress, underlining the links between this and human rights, and the guidelines produced at both the national and global level to make a reality of it.
There are many examples of universal design in practice in libraries. At the Russian State Library for Young Adults, for example, there have not only been efforts to adapt buildings, but also to ensure that users with special needs can access them at will, just as any other user might.
In Catalonia, a project on universal design has seen innovative technologies used both to support physical accessibility, provide materials, and offer relevant training to staff. With a number of libraries based in historic buildings, this work is not simple.
In Latin America also, discussions around the Marrakesh Treaty have led to training initiatives aimed at raising awareness of disability issues and available tools to respond.
Of course, access to books remains a key reason for people to come to the library. IFLA sections have played a major role in helping to establish standards for accessible books and other media. Partners have emerged focusing on accessible format books for library users, and there are welcome steps in Australia, for example, to ensure that all books published are accessible from the start.
Finally, and within library associations themselves, there are welcome steps to ensure the accessibility of conferences, notably in the United States, Norway and Sweden.
Clearly work to adapt library spaces, services and collections to make them accessible to all is necessary. It is a key principle of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights that everyone should be able to benefit from this.
But there is also an argument for specific efforts to ensure that everyone benefits from services. It may not be enough to ensure that everyone can access a building, when they may find it difficult even to leave their homes. As with others, users with special needs may well need books and materials that reflect their needs and experiences.
Such steps can be important in providing equity – fair outcomes, rather than just fair opportunities. Given that all have a right to education, access to information and participation in cultural life, ensuring that people with disabilities can also realise their rights has to be an objective.
Libraries around the world are therefore also looking to develop tailored services, to reach out to those with special needs, rather than wait for them to come through the doors. The opportunities provided by digital technologies can be particularly powerful in this respect, as experience from Kenya indicates.
Such activities can often involve partnerships, as a number of examples from the United States indicate. Here, library spaces and services combined well with external groups to allow for projects such as Autism-friendly book discussions, sensory-friendly Saturdays. The creation of targeted book-clubs also featured in the Catalonian initiative mentioned above.
In Guangdong Province, China, accessibility principles were introduced for library buildings some time ago. But after 2000, there was a new focus on efforts to offer 'extended' services, with more visits to the homes of people with special needs and dedicated clubs.
Finally, the Marrakesh Treaty allows for people with print disabilities and the libraries that serve them to bypass some of the copyright laws that lead to the 'book famine' – the chronic shortage of books in formats for people with print disabilities. Such laws are not (yet) in place for other library users, and so represent an effort to go further in order to help people with print disabilities achieve equity.
Clearly libraries are working to deliver their obligation under the Universal Declaration of Human Rights not to discriminate, in particular against people with disabilities. Clearly this is an ongoing process, as a study of Nigerian University Libraries underlines. IFLA's Library Services to People with Special Needs Section is working hard to provide guidelines, and support training and other efforts to move forwards, with a summary of their work presented at the World Library and Information Congress.
There are also steps that others can take to help in this respect. Effective ratification of the Marrakesh Treaty, with no unnecessary or harmful costs or restrictions on libraries and users is crucial. IFLA encourages all countries to ratify and implement the Treaty, and to extend coverage (where possible) to people with other disabilities, so that all should benefit.
Categories: General | Topics: access to information, accessibility, copyright, Development, disability, Equality, equity, HRD2018, human rights, human rights day, Inclusion, Libraries, Marrakesh Treaty, print disabilities, SDGs, special needs, universal declaration of human rights. | Closed
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Home / Research / REFOCUS
What is the REFOCUS intervention?
Evidence base for the REFOCUS Intervention
Learning from the REFOCUS Trial
Implementing REFOCUS
REFOCUS was a five year, £2 million programme of research, funded by the NHS National Institute for Health Research (Programme Grants for Applied Research) from 2009 to 2014 and led by King's College London. The aim of REFOCUS was to find ways of making community-based adult mental health services in England more recovery-orientated.
The REFOCUS intervention is described in the second edition of the REFOCUS manual (here). The intervention has two components:
Component 1: Working relationships
The working relationship between staff and people who use the service is central to personal recovery. The intervention addresses the working relationship by skills training in coaching
Component 2: Supporting personally-defined recovery
Supporting personally-defined recovery is addressed by training and supporting staff behaviour change in relation to three specific working practices:
1. Understanding values and treatment preferences
2. Assessing and amplifying strengths
3. Supporting goal-striving by the service user as a primary focus for staff action.
The development of the REFOCUS intervention followed the Medical Research Council Framework for the evaluation of complex health interventions.
Theory stage
The understanding of recovery is based on a systematic review of personal recovery (which identified the CHIME Framework) (here). The conceptual framework was validated with people currently using mental health services (here) and the cross-cultural validity of the conceptual framework was investigated (here). The CHIME Framework (Connectedness, Hope, Identity, Meaning, Empowerment) of recovery processes has been widely used internationally (citations listed here).
Four components of best practice in supporting recovery were identified in an international review of recovery guidelines (here). The REFOCUS intervention addresses two of these components: Supporting personally defined recovery and Working relationships. A third component – Promoting citizenship – was not used in REFOCUS but was reviewed (here). The final component of best practice – Organisational commitment – was investigated in a national survey (here).
The approach used in REFOCUS to assessing strengths is based on a systematic review of strengths measures (here). The experience of staff in supporting recovery informed the development of the REFOCUS intervention (here). The competing priorities identified by staff were contextualised in a systematic review (here). To increase the extent to which REFOCUS was consistent with recovery principles, we evaluated the impact of a Lived Experience Advisory Panel on the study (here). We also reported on the process of involvement (here).
All the above evidence which informed the REFOCUS intervention is brought together in the intervention development paper (here). In addition, the feasibility of recovery interventions was investigated (here) using a new measure called Structured Assessment of FEasibility (SAFE) (here), and the relationship between clinical and recovery outcomes was empirically tested (here).
Model stage
The REFOCUS Model is a testable model of the expected impact of the intervention. It was published in the first edition of the REFOCUS Manual (here). The REFOCUS intervention is intended to be feasible for routine use (here). The evaluation of the impact of the REFOCUS intervention was informed by a systematic review of measures of recovery (here). We also published a systematic review of recovery support measures (here). This led to the development and evaluation of a new recovery support measure, called INSPIRE (here). More information about INSPIRE, including downloadable versions, is available here. The trial uses the Questionnaire about the Process of Recovery (QPR) measure as the primary outcome, so we evaluated the psychometric properties of QPR (here).
Intervention Stage
The REFOCUS Trial (ISRCTN02507940) evaluated the REFOCUS Intervention (1st edition), as described in the trial protocol (here). The results of the trial were published (here). A process evaluation investigated the challenges of implementing a complex intervention to support recovery (here), and the experiences of mental health service users in the trial were investigated (here). An innovative approach to clinical end-point measurement was also evaluated (here).
The effectiveness of the REFOCUS Intervention (1st edition) was evaluated in the REFOCUS Trial, which ended in 2014. The process evaluation for the trial investigated each element of the original intervention. The REFOCUS Intervention was modified in the light of these findings. The basic structure of the intervention – recovery-promoting relationships and three working practices – is unchanged. The intervention content has been simplified, with less emphasis on for example the history of the recovery movement, and a stronger focus on the link between coaching and the working practices. Implementation was identified as a specific challenge, so the major changes from the REFOCUS Manual (1st edition) relate to supporting practice change, with some approaches dropped (e.g. Partnership Project, Supervision Form), some modified (e.g. reflection groups) and some added (e.g. Recovery and REFOCUS Workshop). Evidence is also emerging that the REFOCUS Intervention is applicable to in-patient settings, so the focus specifically on community services has also been reduced. The 2nd edition of the REFOCUS Manual incorporates these changes (here).
The complete REFOCUS programme of work was reported (here). The CHIME Framework has become widely used internationally, and we have identified the design features which are associated with high citation (here).
The REFOCUS intervention is now being implemented and evaluated in a range of services in England and other countries. For example, the REFOCUS-PULSAR Study was conducted in Australia (here), and the REFOCUS-PULSAR trial found a positive effect for the intervention in secondary care (here) and preliminary evidence for a positive effect in primary care (here).
REFOCUS is one of a number of emerging evidence-based approaches to supporting recovery (here).
There are many ways in which the REFOCUS Intervention could be provided. Based on the process evaluation from the REFOCUS Trial, we recommend a four-stage approach to implementing REFOCUS:
1. Recovery and REFOCUS Workshop
2. Working Practices training
3. REFOCUS Coaching for Recovery training
4. Development of approaches to support practice change
Contact us for information about accessing trainers.