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NGE2: First Ancestral Race and Seeds of Life
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Re: NGE2: First Ancestral Race and Seeds of Life
Postby Reichu » Sun Jul 21, 2019 11:27 am
Oh, I don't doubt that they were able to discover the Fruit of Life. But that's very different from being able to apply it to themselves on a species-wide level. We always come back to the problem that, if they HAD done so, the whole Seeds of Life / Carriers thing would have been entirely unnecessary. Beings with both Fruits could have simply left the planet on their own.
Why would they NOT apply the Fruit of Life on a species-wide level before this whole Seed shenanigans? That's pretty easy to address. Assuming that the FAR did not simply pop into existence, and had to evolve naturally, their forms would have been too fragile. The Fruit of Life is effectively a REACTOR. Imagine a Lilin trying to house one of those things. It simply wouldn't work; their body would be completely obliterated by the Fruit itself. Adam's Children and Seeds/Evas can handle it because they have the core and a super-powerful ATF to contain it, plus their bodies are simply made of stronger stuff. But even that set-up isn't foolproof -- Angels have a reputation for blowing up when their core is breached, and who even knows what happened to Adam's S2 at 2I. All this meaning, people would need to upgrade their bodies in order to upgrade to the FoL. Doing that on a planet-wide scale prior to some kind of "imminent catastrophe forces everyone to cooperate in colossal effort to leave planet in time" scenario would not be a simple matter.
Another issue that I didn't bring up is the whole matter of collecting everyone into the Seeds' Chambers of Guf in the first place. We see in EoE that Fruit of Life beings are not affected by an Anti-A.T. Field. The MP Evas have to kill themselves manually. They're "fused with" Lilith and she can FORCE them to do it. Well and good here, since Lilith has acquired both Fruits, and the MPs are enslaved beings on top of that. Now look at the logistics of harvesting the souls of an entire planet where EVERYONE HAS BOTH FRUITS. The Seeds have been forced to pick one or the other, so any one of them is weaker than any single FAR. Okay, you might say, but there are SEVEN of them, they can work together. The FAR are going to number far more than seven. FAR with both fruits could not be forced to submit to this planet-wide evacuation problem. So, what, are the Seeds supposed to individually hunt down anyone who doesn't want to participate? Then get into God-fights with them? These people don't even need to stay on the planet in the first place; they could go anywhere. But, yeah, a planet full of people who are INDIVIDUALLY MORE POWERFUL than the supposed gods they created is just a wee bit of a problem. Anyone who didn't like the Seed program could destroy it all with ease long before it got to the point where souls could be harvested.
For that matter, you'd think an entire species of all-powerful gods who still think national divisions are necessary (the unnamed Seed of Life mentions bringing many 'peoples', i.e. of different nations, together as one) would have destroyed their planet long before they could manage to leave it via a cumbersome and nigh impossible to enforce emigration program...
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Postby ACGT-Samael » Sun Jul 21, 2019 3:27 pm
Reichu wrote: Why would they NOT apply the Fruit of Life on a species-wide level before this whole Seed shenanigans? That's pretty easy to address. Assuming that the FAR did not simply pop into existence, and had to evolve naturally, their forms would have been too fragile. The Fruit of Life is effectively a REACTOR. Imagine a Lilin trying to house one of those things. It simply wouldn't work; their body would be completely obliterated by the Fruit itself. Adam's Children and Seeds/Evas can handle it because they have the core and a super-powerful ATF to contain it, plus their bodies are simply made of stronger stuff. But even that set-up isn't foolproof -- Angels have a reputation for blowing up when their core is breached, and who even knows what happened to Adam's S2 at 2I. All this meaning, people would need to upgrade their bodies in order to upgrade to the FoL. Doing that on a planet-wide scale prior to some kind of "imminent catastrophe forces everyone to cooperate in colossal effort to leave planet in time" scenario would not be a simple matter.
While that may be true of Homo sapiens, given how squishy and vulnerable we are, there's already enough evidence enough for them to have had technology far beyond ours that would probably help mitigate some of those issues. Helped either dampen the power of the Fruit of Life or buff their AT Fields to help keep it in check. Something like that. And given we know nothing about their history beyond "they had to abandon their home planet", we know very little about their history. Addition of the Fruit of Life may well have been a more gradual process, growing and empowering it over generations, as opposed to all at once.
Reichu wrote: Another issue that I didn't bring up is the whole matter of collecting everyone into the Seeds' Chambers of Guf in the first place. We see in EoE that Fruit of Life beings are not affected by an Anti-A.T. Field. The MP Evas have to kill themselves manually. They're "fused with" Lilith and she can FORCE them to do it. Well and good here, since Lilith has acquired both Fruits, and the MPs are enslaved beings on top of that. Now look at the logistics of harvesting the souls of an entire planet where EVERYONE HAS BOTH FRUITS. The Seeds have been forced to pick one or the other, so any one of them is weaker than any single FAR. Okay, you might say, but there are SEVEN of them, they can work together. The FAR are going to number far more than seven. FAR with both fruits could not be forced to submit to this planet-wide evacuation problem. So, what, are the Seeds supposed to individually hunt down anyone who doesn't want to participate? Then get into God-fights with them? These people don't even need to stay on the planet in the first place; they could go anywhere. But, yeah, a planet full of people who are INDIVIDUALLY MORE POWERFUL than the supposed gods they created is just a wee bit of a problem. Anyone who didn't like the Seed program could destroy it all with ease long before it got to the point where souls could be harvested.
I mean, it's not like anything possibly excludes the idea that most of the FAR were willing participants. If they as a species saw the writing on the wall, they might have come to the logical conclusion that it was the best course of action. The dissenting minority could have been overpowered by the willing majority.
Reichu wrote: For that matter, you'd think an entire species of all-powerful gods who still think national divisions are necessary (the unnamed Seed of Life mentions bringing many 'peoples', i.e. of different nations, together as one) would have destroyed their planet long before they could manage to leave it via a cumbersome and nigh impossible to enforce emigration program...
Considering they had to leave their home world because it was on the verge of collapse, it's possible their pursuit of Godhood is was caused the cataclysm in the first place. They realized how colossally they'd fucked up, hence the desire to keep the 2 Fruits as far apart as possible last history repeat itself.
Postby Reichu » Sun Jul 21, 2019 4:51 pm
I feel like the most important parts of my argument are the ones that either get completely glossed over, or batted aside with a half-hearted "YEAH BUT [some hypothetical that requires even more assumptions to be made]!". Like, I realize not much information about these guys is provided, but it's important to privilege the right information.
Speaking to nobody in particular here, it feels like the stuff about "forbidden fusion", which comes from Seele and Gendo, is privileged above the behavior of the Spear of Longinus. The Spear of Longinus does not attempt to stop Eva-01's apotheosis; in fact, it helps her along and by the end it has become her servant! Seele and Gendo are referencing the Scrolls, which contain some FAR insight but have been corrupted through the lens of Terran spirituality; the Spear is acting upon the programming that the FAR placed within it. One is therefore more reliable than the other.
Further, I feel that this part of the C.I. gets criminally overlooked:
Within a carrier known as a "Moon", the First Ancestral Race fabricated a perfect cavity (also referred to as a "Moon"), at which point the Seed, or "Progenitor Entity", would be placed inside and sent out into space. Such was their technology, and, from the perspective of Angels, humans, and others, they might be called gods.
People see "god" in NGE being used to refer, in a specific context, to a being with both fruits, and the FAR are quote unquote "God", therefore they must have had both Fruits!! But here, it's made quite clear that they are only "God" from the perspective of the beings that are fruits of their super-advanced technology. Meaning, they aren't ACTUALLY God, or gods. It's part Clarke's Third Law, and part "tendency of humans to venerate their ancestors". Don't let the rest of my post distract you from this piece of information. As one of the very few things said about them, it cannot be simply brushed aside.
If the FAR were mostly like us, just possessing more advanced technology (which does not necessarily mean no-holds-barred "thermodynamics ain't got shit on us"), far fewer assumptions need to made about them. If they have both fruits, the number of irresolvible questions is ENDLESS. There is simply nothing concrete to work with at all; any useful point of reference can be simply handwaved and replaced with mountains of whimsy that don't go anywhere. Maybe ya'll like it that way, but if you're dealing with an obscure part of the mythos for which there is very little information, I think it's better to keep things as simple as possible, and as grounded within the themes of the original work as possible.
NGE is a story about humanity. The whole point of NGE's "Gods" actually being human is sort of summed up with "God's in His heaven, All's Right With the World". God's in Heaven, meaning he's not here with us. "God" (in the sense of Seele's true god, the Kabbalistic one) is an abstract, incoherent being who is not meant to be understood; we exist as the merest embers of his cosmic magnificence, and the only meaningful relationship to be had is one of complete spiritual submission with the end goal of reintegration. The "gods" who are actually here with us are the human ones; they're inherently the same as we are. Understanding is difficult, and maybe PERFECT understanding is impossible, but it's possible to understand each other at least a little if we try. "Gods are really just people" ties also into how the power to change the world is entirely our own. We can't rely on any non-human source. Miracles are made by humans, not by God.
So much relevance is lost if our ancestors are forced into a reading where they must be so incoherent that it is completely impossible to speculate about them. You might as well just cut out the FAR altogether and say "God did it", since it's effectively the same thing. They're not God, they were people. That lets their story be more than mere window dressing. It lets it have meaning to the human audience for that story. It lets it tie thematically into the greater story of humanity that NGE presents. They're not meaningfully human if they escape our understanding in every way that matters, nor are we meaningfully a continuation of them.
Reichu wrote: People see "god" in NGE being used to refer, in a specific context, to a being with both fruits, and the FAR are quote unquote "God", therefore they must have had both Fruits!! But here, it's made quite clear that they are only "God" from the perspective of the beings that are fruits of their super-advanced technology. Meaning, they aren't ACTUALLY God, or gods. It's part Clarke's Third Law, and part "tendency of humans to venerate their ancestors". Don't let the rest of my post distract you from this piece of information. As one of the very few things said about them, it cannot be simply brushed aside.
That's probably in big part me not doing a great job at explaining myself, but at no point was I meaning to put up the FAR as a literal Deity or Pantheon thereof. The reference to JHWH was more intended to be a literary allusion, as in "What if the FAR discovered the Fruit of Life through the science afforded to them by the Fruit of Knowledge, like what JHWH didn't want to happen in Genesis." At no point did I intend to equivocate the 2.
I do agree on the Clarke's Third Law deal, but I'll also point out it's not uncommon in anime to use "God" as a yardstick for how powerful a being is. After all, any being which has wisdom being your imagining and incredible longevity/physical abilities... well, what is the meaningful difference between that and a literal deity? After all, that description fits Unit-01 following her ascension as well.
Reichu wrote: If the FAR were mostly like us, just possessing more advanced technology (which does not necessarily mean no-holds-barred "thermodynamics ain't got shit on us"), far fewer assumptions need to made about them. If they have both fruits, the number of irresolvible questions is ENDLESS. There is simply nothing concrete to work with at all; any useful point of reference can be simply handwaved and replaced with mountains of whimsy that don't go anywhere. Maybe ya'll like it that way, but if you're dealing with an obscure part of the mythos for which there is very little information, I think it's better to keep things as simple as possible, and as grounded within the themes of the original work as possible.
The reason I think they must have at least had access to the Fruit of Life is because they expressly created a genetic legacy with that Fruit embued. To be it makes far more sense to suggest that the Fruit of Life was part of the FAR's genetic code that they felt was worth preserving, just not in tandem with the thing to make it truly dangerous, than to suggest they incorporated a completely alien (to them) bit of genetic information into their own descendants because "...uh... fuck it, why not?"
Reichu wrote: NGE is a story about humanity. The whole point of NGE's "Gods" actually being human is sort of summed up with "God's in His heaven, All's Right With the World". God's in Heaven, meaning he's not here with us. "God" (in the sense of Seele's true god, the Kabbalistic one) is an abstract, incoherent being who is not meant to be understood; we exist as the merest embers of his cosmic magnificence, and the only meaningful relationship to be had is one of complete spiritual submission with the end goal of reintegration. The "gods" who are actually here with us are the human ones; they're inherently the same as we are. Understanding is difficult, and maybe PERFECT understanding is impossible, but it's possible to understand each other at least a little if we try. "Gods are really just people" ties also into how the power to change the world is entirely our own. We can't rely on any non-human source. Miracles are made by humans, not by God.
NGE is a story about humanity, yes, but it also makes very clear by the end that that doesn't mean it's a serious about Homo sapiens. Shinji being straight up told that a flying polyhedron that fires Frickin' Laser Beams and a Penis Chromosome are every bit as human as he is straight up says that thinking of humanity solely as Terran humans is a dead end. After all, the series has until that point spent a large portion of time tearing down the notion of Humans and Angels being so different as to be mutually incomprehensible is straight-up wrong, and that despite seemingly having all the differences in the world we're fundamentally not that different. The FAR, by virtue of being the genetic ancestry of these 2 extremes, naturally are subject to the same principle. If the notion of a race of Ubermensch precursors with advanced technology and physical abilities beyond our own seems to make them too different from ourselves, then perhaps the response is intended to be "then maybe I'm thinking of myself wrong."
Hell, perhaps given more time Homo sapiens may have truly risen to the levels of the FAR. "Forty thousand years of evolution and we've barely even tapped the vastness of human potential," indeed.
Postby Reichu » Sun Jul 21, 2019 10:36 pm
On the one hand, this is a more coherent argument for the "two-fruited FAR" than anything else I've seen in the thread. But, on the other, I need to point out that there's no evidence that the FoL is "genetic". Evas are cloned directly from Adam, and they don't have the S2 engine. "Well, it must have been deliberately engineered out!" If that's the case, then the extreme interest in recovering a partly-intact S2 from an Angel makes absolutely no sense. Deliberately get rid of something, and then be desperate to recover that same thing, purely through luck? HUH??? Like, Seele had a sample of Adam right there! The original unaltered genome! They had Nerv trying to recover S2 engines from Angels before Kaji stole the bloody thing.
Now, alternatively, we know that the Evas not only are not born with souls, their souls come from Lilin. Angels, which ARE born with S2s, get their souls from Adam, who of course has the FoL. Meaning, the FoL is encoded on a spiritual level. This is substantiated by the phrasing used in Eva2. In terms of BOTH Fruits, they speak of a soul "eating" it. Spiritual attribute. This incidentally ties into this part from episode 20, as well:
COMMITTEEMAN ?:
The Eva series aren't capable of generating S2 engines themselves.
We never imagined it would take one into itself this way.
Two birds with one stone here. The Evas can't generate the S2 on their own because they don't have the spiritual information, and Seele, quite logically, did not expect an Eva to get around this the way Yui did, i.e., through such physical means. But the body-soul connection means that, hypothetically, what she did isn't beyond the realm of possibility. (And, well, she DID pull it off, so...) She forcefully assimilated the organ from Zeruel, and with it inside her body it could be spiritually encoded within the record of self that every soul tirelessly keeps.
In any case, things get quite a bit weirder if what Lilin conceptualize as the "fruits" are actually some product of metaphysical tech that's been integrated into the Seeds, and aren't necessarily a fundamental attribute of the FAR at all. But I'm not sure how else you're supposed to explain them being something that a preexisting FAR soul "eats".
And also, again: if the FAR themselves thought that the Fruits being together was "truly dangerous", why did the object which they themselves programmed not do a single thing to prevent Yui's apotheosis? Nor did the Spear do anything against Lilith, who had incorporated both into her body. The Spear is supposed to be the FAR's watchdog, but it fails utterly at carrying out what is, supposedly, one of the FAR's most basic tenets? Either you have to make up some excuse for the FAR's transcendental technology failing at the entrance exam -- or, more simply, the idea that the two Fruits being in one place necessarily foments disaster is just Lilin adding their own slant to the proceedings, which is nothing terribly new. Why is the idea that the FAR themselves originated the "forbidden fusion" stuff taken as gospel?
GuiBiancarelli
Postby GuiBiancarelli » Mon Jul 22, 2019 10:50 am
Wow, lots of good arguments, folks!
Let me dive into them...
ACGT-Samael wrote: the original Fruit of Life would have been a product of the Fruit of Knowledge
That is indeed a possibility. I would argue that it may not necessarily be the way they got it, but I don't think that it can be ruled out either.
Reichu wrote: Beings with both Fruits could have simply left the planet on their own.
Indeed, beings with both Fruits could. However, given:
1. The scenario presented to us (the separation of the Fruits between the Seeds);
2. The reasoning given to the presence of a SoL in each carrier, and;
3. The explanation given by the SDSS (even if we take it with a grain of salt);
We can assume that:
1. The FAR had no intention of giving them both to a single Seed, and;
2. By extension, to a single derived species.
With this argument in mind, is only logical to conclude that, independent of them having both or just one of the Fruits in their body, they weren't willing to employ the combination to escape their doom. That's a reason behind my proposition that was this "mixing" of Fruits that caused the catastrophe, at least on the FAR point of view.
Reichu wrote: Imagine a Lilin trying to house one of those things. It simply wouldn't work; their body would be completely obliterated by the Fruit itself
Lilin physiology might not be the rule here: the Seeds, Evas, Angels and (if I'm not mistaken) Rei are all composed of PWM. Lilin bodies being composed of baryonic matter seems to be the exception, not the rule. Using the sample given, I think it's safe to assume that the FAR bodies were made of PWM. And, as we know, PWM bodies can (somewhat) handle the FoL.
Reichu wrote: Doing that on a planet-wide scale prior to some kind of "imminent catastrophe forces everyone to cooperate in colossal effort to leave planet in time" scenario would not be a simple matter.
Two different points here:
1. Even if they didn't have the FoL, we don't know how much time they had between acknowledging that they were facing impending doom and the plan's implementation. As I mentioned in a post before, it may have been anything between 15 minutes and 5 millennia (or even more). The context is not given;
2. We don't know how many members the FAR race had. We tend to assume that a species is comprised of some billion individuals based on Homo sapiens numbers, but we only reached this figure recently, after significant technological advancement, and don't exactly know if the amount is sustainable. It's not unusual for a species to have a few thousand members and be considered not threatened by extinction, at least here on Earth. Based on that, even if the whole "carrier project" comprised the entire species, we can't assume that it was logisticaly implausible.
Reichu wrote: The Seeds have been forced to pick one or the other
Again, we're not presented any context of the scenario. The only case of a "non-compliant" individual was Lilith, and even her went on with the plan in some (limited and risky, indeed) way.
Reichu wrote: Anyone who didn't like the Seed program could destroy it all with ease long before it got to the point where souls could be harvested.
Without context, we can't prove or disprove it. But I think we can all agree, even without every FAR possessing the FoL, that would be possible even if the plan didn't include the whole species.
Reichu wrote: For that matter, you'd think an entire species of all-powerful gods[...]
Again, the logistics here are only an issue if we consider the exceptional case of Homo sapiens' numbers by the end of the 20th century.
ACGT-Samael wrote: Considering they had to leave their home world because it was on the verge of collapse, it's possible their pursuit of Godhood is was caused the cataclysm in the first place. They realized how colossally they'd fucked up, hence the desire to keep the 2 Fruits as far apart as possible last history repeat itself.
Might be possible, indeed. Can't prove or disprove it.
Reichu wrote: The Spear of Longinus does not attempt to stop Eva-01's apotheosis; in fact, it helps her along and by the end it has become her servant!
As I posted before, the SoL cannot be considered having the same intelligence as a human being. AFAIK, it doesn't have the FoK or a soul, so we can at most attribute to it some intelligence in the same sense as a programming, nothing else: If its task was to disable a Seed in the case of another being present on the same planet, we cannot assume it would go to any further length to avoid the Fruits' unification.
Indeed, if we assume that the FAR had both Seeds and the SoL was designed to respond to them, then it might as well be mistaking Eva-01 for one and reacting as such.
Reichu wrote: People see "god" in NGE being used to refer, in a specific context, to a being with both fruits, and the FAR are quote unquote "God", therefore they must have had both Fruits!! But here, it's made quite clear that they are only "God" from the perspective of the beings that are fruits of their super-advanced technology.
@Reichu, this is, indeed, the most compelling argument. Having such mastery over technology would surely be enough to consider them gods. However, this too raises a whole number of questions:
1. Why did they consider the FoL a legacy in the same level as the FoK?
2. Why treat them as mutually excludent?
3. Why consider a species having it encoded genetically (or spiritually) as being a valid legacy?
But the most compelling one, in my point of view, would be that :
4. If they had only the FoK and from it developed the FoL, why bother to divide them in the first place?
If that was the case with them, it's only logical to assume that another species having the FoK would eventually be able to develop the FoL and the whole separation would end up being totally pointless. Thus, I'm inclined to conclude that they indeed had both Fruits, having developed them by means of darwinian evolution, considered them equally relevant as their legacy, but mutually excludent regarding long-term survival as a species. I think that this explanation addresses most of the questions raised with fewer additional variables included.
ACGT-Samael wrote: The reason I think they must have at least had access to the Fruit of Life is because they expressly created a genetic legacy with that Fruit embued. To be it makes far more sense to suggest that the Fruit of Life was part of the FAR's genetic code that they felt was worth preserving, just not in tandem with the thing to make it truly dangerous, than to suggest they incorporated a completely alien (to them) bit of genetic information into their own descendants because "...uh... fuck it, why not?"
Nothing to add to it!
Reichu wrote: Evas are cloned directly from Adam, and they don't have the S2 engine. "Well, it must have been deliberately engineered out!"
Not exactly. It's generally considered that the cloning process is straightforward (you create an exact copy of the being you have the sample), but this is a misconception. The medium in which the sample is replicated and incubated affects the outcome the most. In fact, this is the greatest challenge we have with the technology IRL. Without having the knowledge and absolute domain of the incubation medium, a "clone" can have the same genetic signature of the donor but not be biologically viable. Again IRL, a clone incubated on a different mother than the original donor is not an exact copy of it. They may have the same genome, but the expressed genes may change, and that's the main factor behind all the difficulties we face in this field.
In the eva-verse, it may be the main reason behind the differences between the Eva units, Adam and the Angels, and between Lilith, Eva-01 and the Lilin. Even possessing genetic samples from the Seeds, the conditions of the medium used for replication and incubation were hardly known, so it's expected that a lot of failures and incomplete results were to be produced. And it's precisely what we're shown:
1. The discarded Eva units on the graveyard;
2. The physical differences between the Units;
3. The alien forms of the Angels;
This points to different conditions on the replication and incubation processes. On Nerv's side, the lengthy process of finding out how to activate each gene, its impact on the outcome, how to express each desired characteristic, is not an easy task. Even if they were able to pinpoint which genes encoded the S2 organ on Adam's DNA, a whole lot of research and trial-and-error would have been needed to correctly cultivate a functional one. Thus, even if the Angels were almost 100% human on their genome, god knows which genes each one chose to activate and express with their AT Field! In this sense, the dichotomy presented by the X Seed is exposed: to either bestow a form, or let them choose their own. If the Fruit present dictates the path taken, then we can see one of the FoL's powers: being able to express desired genes on the incubation process - exactly what we see Sandalphon doing in the series!
So, even if there's physical differences between the Evas and Adam, or Eva-01 and Lilith, the presence of the same genes, expressed in different arrangements, cannot be ruled out - in fact, it can even be deduced and expected. The same can be said of the S2: the correct activation and expression of the necessary genes might have been the greatest challenge faced by Project E - understandable if we consider that the responsible genes were not seen anywhere in nature and they had samples from a single organism. After the Angels' awakening and eventual sampling, they eventually succeeded.
The point here is that the 1% of difference between Angels and Lilin DNA may encode the Fruit given to each species, but to artificially induce it to create a functional S2 organ may be though as hell.
Any thoughts on the matter, people?
Last edited by GuiBiancarelli on Mon Jul 22, 2019 11:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
Postby ACGT-Samael » Mon Jul 22, 2019 11:34 am
Reichu wrote: On the one hand, this is a more coherent argument for the "two-fruited FAR" than anything else I've seen in the thread. But, on the other, I need to point out that there's no evidence that the FoL is "genetic". Evas are cloned directly from Adam, and they don't have the S2 engine. "Well, it must have been deliberately engineered out!" If that's the case, then the extreme interest in recovering a partly-intact S2 from an Angel makes absolutely no sense. Deliberately get rid of something, and then be desperate to recover that same thing, purely through luck? HUH??? Like, Seele had a sample of Adam right there! The original unaltered genome! They had Nerv trying to recover S2 engines from Angels before Kaji stole the bloody thing.
Genetic is probably the wrong word on my part, since, yes, the soul isn't just genetic information. Even so, we still have the fact that Adam was carrying souls from the FAR themselves, and yet these souls also carry the Fruit of Life. Yes, the possibility exists that Adam gave the Fruit to those souls herself, but that scenario involves:
-The FAR creating metaphysical biotech that can defy the laws of physics, and then NOT using it for themselves for some reason
-Adam and the other 2 Seeds being imbued with this process, but it being explicitly kept away from the other 4
-Those Seeds stripping the Fruit of Knowledge out of the souls they took on, despite the Fruit of Knowledge being a pretty key part of their race
-The Seeds finally adding the Fruit of Life to the souls they carry, at a point when it's not clear when (if ever) it will get put to use.
That seems like a very odd sequence of decisions for a race that discovered/created a way to uncouple life from the harshest limitations of the physical realm to make, when presumably they would have wanted to reap the benefits of that research.
As for SEELE gutting out the S2 engine and then experimenting with putting it back in... I've always gone with the interpretation that it's a control thing. Project E placed a lot of effort and resources into creating as much semblance of control over the Evas as possible, and despite all that, the first one they successfully made still has this nasty habit of going Berserk. Even Unit-01, who is generally more in line with her intended operating parameters, still occasionally does stuff that's well outside of intended. I mean, she managed to reactivate and curb stomp an Angel after her internal power ran out, something a few of the members of Nerv would assume was straight up not possible.
Give that thing a perpetual motion reactor when you can't guarantee you can keep it under wraps? Not a bloody chance. They called out the Jet Alone's makers for essentially doing the same thing. That's presumably why they still hook Unit-01 up with an umbilical cable when she obviously doesn't need it anymore. The only reason they allowed the Harpies free rein with S2 Engines was because 1) they were somehow able to completely subjugate them, and 2) they really didn't have much Choice at that point if they actually wanted Instrumentality to get done.
Reichu wrote: And also, again: if the FAR themselves thought that the Fruits being together was "truly dangerous", why did the object which they themselves programmed not do a single thing to prevent Yui's apotheosis? Nor did the Spear do anything against Lilith, who had incorporated both into her body. The Spear is supposed to be the FAR's watchdog, but it fails utterly at carrying out what is, supposedly, one of the FAR's most basic tenets? Either you have to make up some excuse for the FAR's transcendental technology failing at the entrance exam -- or, more simply, the idea that the two Fruits being in one place necessarily foments disaster is just Lilin adding their own slant to the proceedings, which is nothing terribly new. Why is the idea that the FAR themselves originated the "forbidden fusion" stuff taken as gospel?
I mean... obviously they didn't want it to be impossible of there's way more they could have done to prevent it, but it's clearly not intended to be the norm either. Separating the 2 Fruits between different Seeds and then drafting a rule saying 2 Seeds with different Fruits can't go to the same planet suggests they really didn't want an entire race of dual-fruit beings as part of their legacy. Hell, even under your interpretation Lilith decided to usurp Adam rather than work with her to produce a race with both Fruits, which presumably would have been the most beneficial path for them both, which suggests a being meant to be a foundation of the pinnacle of sapient life... just kinda got tricked by a weird Prisoner's Dilemma.
Postby Reichu » Mon Jul 22, 2019 12:54 pm
Guess we just have to agree to disagree. I don't see any possible reconciliation here.
Postby ACGT-Samael » Mon Jul 22, 2019 12:58 pm
I'm not trying to push us into a position where we can't have an honest discussion, I'm just having a hard time reasoning out why the FAR would come into possession of the Fruit of Life and then go out of their way to not integrate it with the Fruit of Knowledge.
Postby GuiBiancarelli » Mon Jul 22, 2019 1:46 pm
ACGT-Samael wrote: I'm not trying to push us into a position where we can't have an honest discussion, I'm just having a hard time reasoning out why the FAR would come into possession of the Fruit of Life and then go out of their way to not integrate it with the Fruit of Knowledge.
Same here. As I said before, the healthy discussion in order to find out the most probable explanation to the case is a mental challenge I enjoy. It's not my intention to create any form of unease here, by any means.
SawItAtAge10
Gaghiel
Location: Sea of LCL
Postby SawItAtAge10 » Thu Jul 25, 2019 7:19 pm
First, I concur with what Reichu said about the FAR ultimately being all too human.
In fact, right alongside the notion that NGE's story is the story of man itself, thus the SDSCs being the literature that would inspire world religions (evidenced by Shinji questioning the notion of fighting Angels and acknowledging the belief in God in ep. 11 and the presence of an actual church in ep. 16) via crude interpretations, linguistic development, the passage of time obscuring things, plain old human error etc. being meta commentary on how an anime show can be placed on a dogmatic pedestal, then it could be argued that the FAR represent the Creators... of the show. As in Anno, Gainax, etc.
Afterall, it's said that the Evangelion is the pinnacle of man's existence, eternal proof that he ever existed. Again, going meta here, what if this was a "pretentious" assertion about the series itself? Again, this goes along the lines of obsessive fans treating a show like a great gospel. Anno just took it a step further by being both figurative and literal and somewhere in between (within the show's context). And he villainizes such a practice with SEELE being extremists for escapism.
More to the point. In story, what if the great calamity that arose was some kind of technological race war where one side bred themselves on a spiritual-genetic level on the basis of the FoL and the other the FoK? It would certainly tie into the idea of "man's greatest enemy is man himself" and Thanatos' lyric "we're not the same."
From there, at the moment of imminent annihilation, the two factions could've compromised to leave their dead planet on the basis of remaining eternally separated like "a woman far away."
Because of these kinds of divisions and an unwillingness to resolve our differences to the point of destroying one another, NGE is a very human story through and through from the FAR to the Seeds to the Angels and Evas all the way to the Lilin.
Last edited by SawItAtAge10 on Fri Jul 26, 2019 9:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
FROM EVANGELION:
"Acts of Man are greater than acts of God!"
"I'm saying that I love you."
NOT FROM EVANGELION:
"You are excrement. You can change yourself into gold."
Postby GuiBiancarelli » Fri Jul 26, 2019 7:28 am
SawItAtAge10 wrote: First, I concur with what Reichu said about the FAR ultimately being all too human.
In fact, right alongside the notion that NGE's story is the story of man itself, thus the SDSCs being the literature that would inspire world religions (evidenced by Shinji questioing the notion of fighting Angels and acknowledging the belief in God in ep. 11 and the presence of an actual church in ep. 16) via crude interoretations, linguistic development, the passage of time obscuring things, etc. being meta commentary on how an anime show can be placed on a dogmatic pedestal, then it could be argued that the FAR represent the Creators... of the show. As in Anno, Gainax, etc.
Afterall, it's said that the Evangelion is the pinnacle of man's existence, eternal proof that he ever existed. Again, going meta here, what if this was a "pretentious" assertion about the series itself? Again, this goes along the lines of obsessive fabs treating a show like a great gospel. Anno just took it a step further by being both figurative and literal and somewhere in between. And he villainizes such a practice with SEELE being extremists for escapism.
From there, at the moment of imminent annihilation, the two factions could've comprised to leave their dead planet on the basis of remaining eternally separated like "a woman far away."
Hmmm... And then maybe the FoK faction used their technology to build the carriers, the FoL used the Anti-AT to release the souls, someone rigged some preexistent weapon or tool to make a failsafe of sorts to go along (just in case) and that's it. But by the time to finish all up and take off, one of the sides took offense of something, or tried to get some advantage, and we've got 1st Impact. Conflict between the two different humanities starts all over...
By the end of EoE, Yui takes off carrying both Fruits and a Spear, and a new dilemma: to just lie as a monument, an ark carrying the legacies; or to set up camp in another planet and risk to start over, even knowing the strong possibility of restarting the cycle
Ok, fan-wanking aside, the division of the Fruits by factions of the FAR takes into account the duality exposed in the show, the different aspects of the carrier system, and even seems to explain the conflicting interpretations we have here in meta. Improvising the Spear-failsafe from something already in use by the FAR seems to explain the not-so-reliable behavior of it, and the thematic of the conflicts (FAR-FoK vs FAR-FoL, Lilith vs Adam, Lilin vs Angels, Seele vs Nerv) falls in line with the presented by the show. We can even link it to the 1st AND 2nd Ancestral Races cited in the original proposal.
@SawItAtAge10, I think this is the most elegant hypothesis we have so far!
Postby SawItAtAge10 » Fri Jul 26, 2019 10:29 am
GuiBiancarelli wrote: @SawItAtAge10, I think this is the most elegant hypothesis we have so far!
Thanks. I've had something 20 years to mull Evangelion over in my head Lol And I still feel like I'm barely scratching the surface with the more "advanced" aspects of the show such as the vague backstory mythos. Thematically speaking, we're not supposed to get so caught up in the deeper sci-fi narrative. But approaching it this way does tie into the bigger idea of communication breaking down between people and how destructive divisiveness can be.
As I've said, it took me a while to get my head around the meta approach. But this is a good primmer for how I look at the FAR/SSDSCs as being the point of origin for human language, culture, religions, etc.It can be found here:
http://forum.evageeks.org/thread/17559/ ... vangelion/
This is another good one that sort of reflects my earlier reasoning to show how I got to viewing the nature of series with the FAR, etc.:
search.php?st=0&sk=t&sd=d&sr=posts&author_id=7104&start=320
All of this being said, I do think that the FAR were humans who reached a certain point of great technological advancement. Their greatest achievement likely culminated in the creation of the Super Solenoid engine. Using the infinite energy as a resource they likely were then able to tap into and harness the limitations of biology and metaphysical biology. Thus, the the FoK would lead to, by way of natural evolutionary processes/limitations, etc. to the FoL by way of invention. Then, from there, it could be extrapolated that the hypothetical race war arose before the planet reached past critical and the entirety of the remaining FAR bailed via a two party compromise of FoK and For based Seeds with each one containing a Chambering roflcopters Guf with billions of souls. Interestingly, it would seem that the Angels (the "Fruits") were carriers within the carrier...Maybe..
I do wonder if the inherent control souls were ordinary people akin to Yui or Kyoko. Or if it was more of pilot situation. (I imagine an adult looking Rei named Lilith who has red eyes and white hair as an example of such a person, same with an adult looking Kaworu named Adam. In fats, the FAR, being ordinary people could've been a collective race of white haired, red eyed people...).
I am curious, what is the source for the idea that Lilith intentionally caused 1st Impact by going after Adam and her FoL? A link to that specific info would be great.
Postby GuiBiancarelli » Fri Jul 26, 2019 10:58 am
SawItAtAge10 wrote: I am curious, what is the source for the idea that Lilith intentionally caused 1st Impact by going after Adam and her FoL? A link to that specific info would be great.
It's told by Lilith herself in NGE2, specifically on Rei's scenario, as (wonderfully) translated by @Reichu.
There's a post containing it somewhere on this very topic, in any case follows the link to the YouTube video: https://youtu.be/gn6med28mqg (all credits to @Reichu)
Postby SawItAtAge10 » Fri Jul 26, 2019 12:24 pm
GuiBiancarelli wrote: It's told by Lilith herself in NGE2, specifically on Rei's scenario, as (wonderfully) translated by @Reichu.
Okay perfect. This aligns with my theory on Lilith/Rei's rebellious willfulness then. In that regard, she really is all woman then, and in the immortal words of Ritusko "stays a woman right down to very let second." I have to assume that Lilith burning off after Adam was a last minute deviation from the plan, just as Rei III's betrayal of Gendo in EoE was also a last minute betrayal as well...
And yes, I do mean in this in the context of Naoko's female paradigm for how she designed the Magi.
From the wiki:
"Magi-1: Melchior: Dr. Naoko Akagi as a scientist;
Magi-2: Balthasar: Dr. Naoko Akagi as a mother;
Magi-3: Casper: Dr. Naoko Akagi as a woman."
Scientist, Mother and Woman....Well, that order follows the creation of the Evas as well when one looks at the timeline - Yui (CE 1) - Unit 01, Kyoko (CE 2) - Unit 02, and Rei ("CE 3") - Unit 00
*CE = Contact Experiment
Scientist. Now, Yui growing up in SEELE (is Kiel her father?) would've been brought upon the doctrine of how "evil" science is and that the quest for knowledge is a destructive path vs. a more spiritual pursuit (the 2nd impact video for ep. 21's DC edit pretty much spells this out). Naturally, it would seem that the quest for such power through forbidden knowledge is precisely what Yui would be after.
Now, I know what you're thinking "Hold up, Yui is the very embodiment of motherhood, isn't she?" Let's not get too ahead of ourselves here. When we first actually meet Yui in the flesh in episode 21's flashbacks, she's framed within the context of being a scents who just wrote a pair on meta biology. Only when she goes to talk with Fiyutski does she mention thinking about having children. And this, is the start of her "Look at me. I'm a nice girl with ambitions of throwing out my career aspirations for career pursuits in favor of being a barefoot and pregnant stay at home waifu." Again, growing up in SEELE, she already knows the score with 2nd Impact and the impending 3rd Impact all the way back in 1999. She's playing the part of what Gillian Flynn's Amy Dunn would call "Cool Girl." In fact, she does with both Fiyutski and (one can assume) manipulations against Gendo. Consider her and Fiyutski's lakeside conversation...It's almost as if she's using Shinji as a prop, both there and in the lab (where she vanishes during the CE) to say "Look at me, I'm such a good mom." But going first for the at pursuit with the Unit 01 CE is somewhat reflective of Eve going first in Genesis to eat of the fruit in pursuit of Knowledge....
And her dark side and true intent comes about with the films way she utilizes the berserk mode, especially in EoE where she seemingly waits for Unit 01 to be vanquished. And her quest is completed when she achieves ultimate power via knowledge when she re-emerges from the Adam?Lilith gestalt at the end. Interesting, she emerges from the third eye. Now this could be seen as symbolic of a the "all seeing eye" as in omniscience (again "all KNOWING). PLUS, it's reminiscent of Athena who was the goddess of war and wisdom in Greek mythology. She emerged from Zeus' forehead fully formed. Thus, Yui intentionally sacrificed her old life, her marriage, her son, the conceit of motherhood and a desolate earth in pursuit of power derived from esoteric knowledge. She saved nothing and scarified everything for her own selfish desires and pays the ultimate price of floating off into space alone forever.
Motherhood. Now Kyoko and Unit 02. This one is fairly straight forward. Here we get the mechanics behind soul fragmenting. For some reason or another, the cores of the Evas take in the maternal aspect of a soul as their central functioning component. This happened by accent with Kyoko and she came back incomplete and crazy. After her suicide, it's possible that the rets was put into Unit 02 to make it more stable. The realization that the true part of her mother that is her mother and deeply loves her only comes to Asuka during that final battle. Unfortunately, the overpowering MPEs make it all too late. And Unit 02 is subsequently torn to shreds. Interestingly, it's like the concept of motherhood is depicted here as not only being put on the chopping block, but symbolically sacrificed in a ritualistic way. We see the desecrated offering as Unit 01 makes her ascent. Plus, this lines up with Misato's line "I wasn't able to be a mother to Shinji after all..." In fact, given her pervasive sexuality and that last interaction...That would be...
Womanhood. Now, let's talk about Rei. "Self as a woman" when discussing Lilith/Rei going to be the most complicated. Consider Lilith in the Talmud (an older version of the Bible). She gets kicked out because she wants to have sex where she's on top of Adam during (makes me think of the scene in EoE when Shinji and Rei are in the sea of LCL and she's straddling him). Also in the Talmudic legend, unlike Eve, Lilith was created from dust EQUALLY the same as Adam and separately from him vs being made from him via his rib.
Then, there's her interaction with Naoko. Her demise comes at the hands of jealous woman over a man. Then, with Unit 00, that Rei I fragment resides within the Eva. But Rei II pilots it. So that's a form of autonomy, Rei is her own master in that sense, she just doesn't know it yet. It takes her dying for Rei III to figure it. Thus, we get her last minute betrayal after Rituko is betrayed by...Caspar (Naoko's "Self as a Woman.") The trifecta of the three: Naoko > Ritsuko > Rei is important here as they are succession of "Yui substitutes" that get progressively younger. Same can be said of the trifecta of Lilith, Unit 01 and Rei or Rei, Yui and Unit 01. And the obvious Rei I, Rei II and Rei III.
Rei I is Lilith in her purest form as a Lilin. She's very open and even combative to the competition the "old hag." Rei II is essentially broken, not only by Rei I's death, but mad embrue docile by Lilth's soul fragmentation between her and Unit 00. Unit 00's destruction reunites them for Rei III.
Jealousy over a man shows its head again when Ritsuko kills the other remaining Rei clones. Then, she tries one more time only to be betrayed by Caspar. Thus, in favor of a different man (Shinji) Rei III makes her own choice to pilot herself in a different way by "growing up" from girl to woman (the absolute woman here) by rejoining her soul with Lilith's body.
And so, Lilith FINALLY makes it on top. Adam's there too, but Lilith/Rei is dominating the situation. She's now riding this pony and running the show. Hence, why the MPEs grotesquely morph into her and Adam's spear now obeys and bends to her will for initiating 3rd Impact/Instrumentality by opening Unit 01's core to connect with Lilith's Chamber of Guf and reform the Tree of Life. That is, until, she hands the reigns to Shinji who subsequently ends the world and rebirths it through his own psycho dramatic experiences leading to and within Instrumentality. And after all that, Rei makes one more appearance before vanishing again to pursue her own cosmic-quantum pursuits or whatever it was she wanted...Again she appears to Shinji as "a woman far away" on a "distance shore." Actually as a "siprit hovering over the waters."
So, it took her a few billion years and loads of setbacks and confusion, but Lilith did accomplish her goals of getting that FoL and stopping Adam in every way possible. And she sent her offspring into space as a hybrid of her and Adam. Now, is that a FAR that Unit 01 became? Now, Yui/Unit 01 is fundamentally a new creature that the series hadn't seen before. Maybe something akin to an Angel seeing as she as her won S2 organ, but with the FoK + FoL, perhaps even more than that...The long flowing blue hair definitely indicates that she can manipulate her form like Angels can, and that she's a giant naked "Rei" with long flowing blue hair underneath all that armor. Before, the amor only covered a monster, but the Gestalt being was like a chrysalis and the beautiful butterfly emerged at the end of Instrumentality.
Question I guess then is, what happened to this ascended Rei III/Lilith then and where did she go? That answer is as mysterious and esoteric as the nature of women in general (at least this is the sentiment I feel that NGE/EoE is trying to convey).
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I don't know how many of this blog's readers are called Martin, it's not the sort of thing that's easy to check up on. Nonetheless, definition number five for the word martin in the OED amused me so much that I felt I ought to post it here (I have already e-mailed it to the only Martin I know).
This is just a little observation on how to write folk poetry. Louis Armstrong once observed that "All music is folk music, I ain't never heard no horse sing a song."* However, there is a certain style, a certain flavour that some poems and songs have, and that others do not. If we ignore, for the moment, the music; it is rather odd that some lines should be folky and others non-folky. Why?
Lots and lots of blackbirds baked in a pie.
Of four and twenty daffodils.
The albatross accompanies the ship for precisely nine days, and the spirit follows the boat not "deep in the sea", as most poets would have put it, but exactly "nine fathoms deep".
The same trick is used by the great faker of folk songs, Bob Dylan. Here there are too many examples to name - seven sad forests, six wild horses, fifteen jugglers, five believers, fourth time around - once you start listening for them they're bloody everywhere.
So if you want to write something that sounds traditional and folky and magical - just chuck in some precise numbers. Simple.
Why this should be is a slightly odder question. And I have three different possible answers.
1) It reminds us of the Bible - the forty days and forty nights, the twelve disciples, the ten plagues, the four horsemen, the seven tongued angel etc etc etc. It could also, perhaps, remind us of magical spells in fairy stories where things often have to be repeated a particular number of times.
2) (And this is related) Numbers feel significant. When you read in the Ancient Mariner that the spirit was nine fathoms deep, you wonder what that means. It's as though there had been an ancient significance which is now lost in the fogs of time.
3) It's how folk actually talk. Poets and novelists will usually say that somebody stayed somewhere a long time. Actual people will say that they lived in Paris (or wherever) for three years. Nobody says "I work high in an office block." They say "I work on the eighteenth floor." Creation is vague. Life requires counting.


From Goodreads ~ Defense lawyer Andy Carpenter spends as much time as he can working on his true passion, the Tara Foundation, the dog rescue organization he runs. Lately, Andy has been especially involved in a county prison program where inmates help train dogs the Tara Foundation has rescued to make them more adoptable, benefiting both the dogs and the prisoners.
One of the prisoners Andy has been working with is Brian Atkins, who has 18 months left on a 5-year term for fraud. Brian has been helping to train Boomer, an adorable fox terrier the Tara Foundation rescued from a neglectful owner. Brian and Boomer are clearly a terrific match. In fact, Andy hopes that Brian will adopt Boomer himself, once his sentence is up.
Andy is a defense lawyer who doesn't want any clients. Because of the millions his father left him, he is able to not work and spend his time with his friend, Willie, running the Tara Foundation, a dog rescue that he and Willie formed.
Andy had inherited a client from another lawyer, which was an easy case. Brian had been convicted of embezzling money from the computer company he and his friend, Gerald, started and is now in prison. He is coming up for parole in a couple months. Brian is part of a program that Andy has started with prisoners training rescue dogs.
Then Brian escapes unexpectedly from prison and the next day is accused of killing his estranged wife and Gerald. Andy now had to defend Brian and prove that he isn't a murderer.
This is the fourteenth book I've read by this author and I enjoyed it. I liked the writing style as it was funny, sarcastic and amusing. It was written in first person perspective in Andy's voice but at times it was also written in third person perspective when the focus is elsewhere. It is the fourteenth in the Andy Carpenter series (I've read them all) and it works as a stand alone (so you don't need to have read the ones before it to know what is going on).
I like Andy. He loves his dog, Tara, and thinks she's the most wonderful dog in the whole wide world. Andy is married to Laurie and they recently adopted a eight-year-old named Ricky. Part of Andy's team is Hike, his associate who is the most depressed and downer person ever. Marcus, an investigator with persuasive reasoning skills, continues to provide protection when it's most needed (which is often since Andy is a self-professed coward). Sam is his accountant who is also a computer hack.


text:
Ignorance is not a defense for college football coaches
College coaches wield immense power over personnel. They can control the daily schedules of 100 players. They can control what they eat and how long they sleep. They can control what they wear and what they study.
Ignorance is not a defense for college football coaches College coaches wield immense power over personnel. They can control the daily schedules of 100 players. They can control what they eat and how long they sleep. They can control what they wear and what they study. Check out this story on citizen-times.com: http://avlne.ws/2vvar2D
USA TODAY Sports Network Published 5:23 p.m. ET July 17, 2017 | Updated 9:52 a.m. ET July 18, 2017
Manny(Photo: KEN OSBURN/Staff / Greenville News)
College coaches wield immense power over personnel. They can control the daily schedules of 100 players. They can control what they eat and how long they sleep. They can control what they wear and what they study. Young players acquiesce to the commands, because coaches also control playing time.
However, coaches cannot control everything. The immaculate facilities they construct cannot keep players confined forever. They cannot order chaperones for every late-night car ride. They cannot plant spies at keg parties.
Yet, NCAA regulations presume omniscience. Coaches are held responsible for what happens under their watch, even if they do not see it. They are expected to know the indiscretions of every coach they have hired and every player they have signed. The assumption is "there is no way in the world they could not know."
How could University of Louisville basketball coach Rick Pitino not know one of his assistants coordinated prostitutes for prospective players? How did Pennsylvania State University football coach Joe Paterno not know one of his assistants sexually assaulted multiple children? How did University of North Carolina coaches not know their players were awarded passing grades for classes they never attended?
How can coaches, the certified control freaks, be completely oblivious to such egregious offenses? Considering how much their reputations directly affect their occupation, most coaches are tediously vigilant. Some have followed scandals and dismissals with defamation suits to protect their public image, regardless of what they knew, did or ignored.
The NCAA has a higher standard than the court of public opinion and a lower threshold for reasonable doubt than the actual judicial system. Whether a coach was aware of an infraction or not is irrelevant. Whether the NCAA can prove it or not is apparently immaterial.
"The NCAA has already said that I'm responsible for everything our guys do, whether I know about it or not," Syracuse University coach Dino Babers said. "It doesn't matter how I feel about that topic. Anytime someone goes rogue and does their own deal, you've got to say he's one of your guys. It's really not fair, but you've got to take the hit."
Heavy is the head that wears the ball cap. The neck wearing the whistle could easily land under the guillotine, even when he had no hand in the crime. Coaches are judged by their subordinates' transgressions and evaluated by how they respond to them.
"You can bring a player into your office every day and talk to him and he can say, 'Oh, I'm doing perfectly fine, Coach," Wake Forest University senior defensive lineman Wendell Dunn said. "Then, he can go out there and do whatever he wants. He's a man at the end of the day. I don't think it's fair to the coach, because we're all men, and we make our own decisions."
Dunn's charge of personal accountability is certainly valid, but there is some merit to such a stringent standard of culpability. The NCAA rarely enforces its rules or prosecutes infractions efficiently, but encouraging coaches to promote integrity and honor is vital. Instilling those values is a duty, or at the very least, an equitable transaction in exchange for what players give to a program.
The elevated expectations explain why Clemson University coach Dabo Swinney emphasizes character and chemistry when assessing potential staff members or recruits. He certainly has not assembled a roster full of choirboys and bookworms. Yet, through Swinney's tenure, Clemson has posted exceptional academic progress rates and has not been sanctioned for any major NCAA violations.
All while pursuing a national championship.
A culture of accountability can extend past playbook assignments. When it spreads from the practice field to the classroom, from the stadium to the frat house, a coach no longer needs to serve as detective, therapist, dorm warden or chaperone. Players police themselves.
"That's where leadership has to take place," Dunn said. "If I'm out at a party and I see one of my teammates and he's taking a drunk girl home and I know she's too drunk to consent to do anything, I should step in and tell him, 'No, you're not doing that.'
"We're out there. Coach isn't out there. Coach can't be out there with us. As leaders on any team, it's your job to be accountable and hold your teammates accountable."
WNC basketball teams included in media poll
Recruiting stock rising for Mountain Heritage's Levi Higgins
WNC high school sports: Tuesday night box scores
Tuscola's Nate Brafford picks up first Division I offer
Smoky Mountain's Clayton Frady commits to Division I program
North Buncombe's JT Laws hits career assist mark

redpajama_set_name: RedPajamaCommonCrawl


text:
Dental-Implants
Pre Prosthetic Surgery
James M. Eyre, Jr., D.M.D., M.D.
Willamette Valley Oral & Maxillofacial Surgery, Inc.
250 Church Street SE, Suite 102,
meet the staffcontact info & map
James M. Eyre, Jr., D.M.D., M.D.Meet the Staff
MEET DR. EYRE
JAMES M. EYRE, JR. , D.M.D., M.D.
Dr. Eyre was born in Pocatello, Idaho and later moved to Boise where he remained throughout high school. He attended University of Oregon where he earned a Bachelor of Science in Biology with a Chemistry Minor. He then proceeded to Oregon Health and Sciences University where he earned his D.M.D. degree. Upon graduation, he immediately began his 6 year residency in Oral and Maxillofacial Surgery where he also received his M.D. degree and completed a year of general surgery. The following year he completed a fellowship in Craniofacial Trauma and Cosmetic surgery and since has lectured nationally, regionally and locally.
Dr. Eyre is certified by the American Board of Oral and Maxillofacial Surgeons. Since July of 2000 he has been practicing full scope Oral and Maxillofacial Surgery in a private practice in Salem, Oregon.
He has been an active board member of the Boys and Girls Club for over a decade and a strong supporter of Family Building Blocks. Dr. Eyre provides care for patients identified through the Neighborhood Dentist Program, Boys and Girls Club Dental Clinic, and Salem Free Medical/Dental Clinic. He also treats uninsured oncology patients for the Salem Cancer Institute. Dr. Eyre has been married to his wife (Holly) for over 29 years and together they have three boys.
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Living under grace means that we can sin if we so choose. We are free to make foolish choices. 'Is he saying that since grace covers all sins, I can go out and sin if that's what I want to do?' Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying… Yes, you can sin. However, when you understand your identity in Christ, you don't want to sin.


Newsday: Greg Logan reports in Newsday's blog a lot of speculation on the players signed already with the focus on Ron Hainsey and Doug Weight for New York but no comments from the club one way or another as he writes about some of the moves already made around the league vs what each move could mean looking ahead.
The Islanders just landed their power-play quarterback. Former Montreal defenseman Mark Streit, 31, just agreed to a five-year deal. Streit totaled 13 goals, 49 assists and 62 points last season.
Newsday: Greg Logan has another blog on the Mark Streit signing with contract details.
Islanders website: Has a full update with comments from Garth Snow and Mark Streit on the signing.
Flat out steal for Garth Snow at those years and that price considering what other defenders got. Upgrades the powerplay and the offense from the point huge.
Isles paid below market value for a franchise defender.
So much for the condition of the Coliseum.
Or the reports no one will sign here.
Or they would have to pay huge to sign anyone.
They signed a franchise defender tonight for below market value.
Best UFA signing in club history.
Hats off to Garth Snow.
Point Blank: Mr Botta has a blog about the clubs signing of Mark Streit where he gives them full credit for the signing.
I wonder why he thinks Islander fans would be complaining about this signing?
Which defenceman will provide the best value for his new contract?
Billy Jaffe was on Msg and loved the signing.
That NYI Voices blog could use an update.


What is the difference between the direct cash flow method and the indirect cash flow cash flow method? And, more importantly, how do you calculate them? And, finally, what does this have to do with my cash flow statement?
It will be a busy week on Capitol Hill as lawmakers push towards a vote yet this week on tax reform.
Cybersecurity – Is Your Real Estate Company Secure From an Attack?
Shockingly, only one in four small businesses believes they are prepared for a cyber attack. How does cybersecurity at your real estate company stack up?
How Do I Set Up An Escrow Account in QuickBooks?
If you have taken out a mortgage recently and established an escrow account, you will want to read this.


Aimee is a Trainee Solicitor who achieved her Law Degree in 2013 at Keele University and then completed her Graduate Diploma in Legal Practice at Staffordshire University in 2014, achieving a Distinction grade.
Aimee joined the firm in August 2016 as a Legal Assistant in the Conveyancing Department and started her period of recognised training in March 2018. Aimee presently specialises in New Build Transactions where she works alongside Developers ensuring property transactions progress smoothly and efficiently.
Aimee is member of the Trusts and Estates Department assisting Emma Wing in dealing with the administration of estates and preparing Wills and Lasting Powers of Attorney.


Over the years, healthy teeth essay a great deal of controversy has escalated ethics research paper topics regarding whether or not raising children in gay and lesbian family creates an unhealthy environment This is an essay that I am sharing that I wrote for a college level english course about a problem in today's america.
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Just put all the above tips into practice and you will be sure of getting the right service healthy teeth essay on board.
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Dakota Wesleyan University can be found in Mitchell, SD, a nonprofit private college which focuses on only a select few programs offered. The smaller size of enrollment, which is approximately around 1000 students, provides smaller class sizes for enrolled students.
Most of the students accepted into this school earned an SAT score in the range of 890 - 1150, or got accepted with an ACT composite score within the range of 19 - 24. We were able to estimate the Dakota Wesleyan University average GPA (2.98 - 3.25) of admitted students by applying sampled GPA data on over 150 schools. Dakota Wesleyan University admits roughly 70% of students applying. Of those that are accepted, about 27% continue on to register and enroll. You can get more information from the admissions office website at dwu.edu.
Overall Dakota Wesleyan University Acceptance Rate - Fall 2020
The overall acceptance rate for Dakota Wesleyan University was reported as 66.7% in Fall 2020 with over 916 applications submitted to Dakota Wesleyan University. Both in state and out of state applicants are included in these figures. We do not have data on transfer acceptance rates currently.
How Hard Is It to Get into Dakota Wesleyan University?
The applicant selectivity of Dakota Wesleyan University is about average, as determined by collecting standardized test scores e.g. ACT/SAT and high school average GPA ranges of students who were granted admissions from previous years.
The historical trend chart shows acceptance rates from the previous years, from which we have projected the acceptance rate for the 2023-2024 school year. The overall acceptance rate trend for Dakota Wesleyan University has been getting lower when compared to averages from previous years.
How Does Dakota Wesleyan University Compare?
The acceptance rate for Dakota Wesleyan University is eighteen percent higher than the national average of all colleges which is around 56.7%.
Presentation College 90.2%
Martin Luther College 83.8%
York College 56.6%
Bethany Lutheran College 72.6%
Average ACT/SAT Scores of Applicants to Dakota Wesleyan University (Fall 2020)
1200 W University Ave
Mitchell, SD 57301-4398
dwu.edu


2) What are the uses of Java?
3) What are the of import features of Java?
4) How to setup Java Environment Setup inward Windows Operating Environment?
5) What are the of import Java Language Elements?
6) What are the fundamentals of OOPS?
7) Explain nearly Java Comments?
8) What are Java Modifiers?
9) What are Java Variables?
12) How to direct maintain Strings inward Java?
14) How to read input inward Java?
• Java is a full general purpose, high marking Programming Language developed yesteryear Sunday Microsystems and released inward 1995, which was afterwards acquired yesteryear the Oracle Corporation.
• Java tin endure used to practise consummate Software Applications that may run on a unmarried reckoner or be distributed amidst servers together with clients inward a network.
• Java runs on a diversity of platforms, such every bit MS Windows, Mac, together with the diverse versions of UNIX.
• Object-orientated programming language, except the primitive information types, all elements inward Java are objects.
Note: Software evolution is the primary role of Java, secondary role is Test Automation.
Linux, Sunday Solaris, Mac/OS etc.
Robust agency strong, Java uses potent retention management.
We tin behave the coffee bytecode to whatsoever platform.
by providing closed to rules.
Setup Java Environment inward social club to write together with execute Java programs.
• Download Java Software (JDK) together with Install.
• Set Environment Variable (Path Variable).
Write Java programs using Notepad every bit Editor, Compile the Programs together with Run.
• Download Eclipse IDE together with Extract.
Java supports Single trouble comment together with multiple trouble comment.
Modifiers are keywords that nosotros add together to those definitions to modify their meaning.
Variable: Influenza A virus subtype H5N1 named retention place to shop the temporary information inside a program.
Local variables are declared inward methods or blocks.
Instance Variables are declared inward a course of report exactly exterior of a method or whatsoever block.
Static Variables are declared every bit static, these can't endure local.
Operators are used to perform mathematical, comparing together with logical operations.
11) What is Method inward Java?
A Java Method is a laid of statements that are grouped together to perform an operation.
Methods are every bit good known every bit Functions.
String is a sequence of characters written inward double quotes.
String may accept Alphabets, Numbers, together with Special Characters.
In Java, Array is an Object that holds a fixed release of values of a unmarried information type.
Array length is fixed, index starts from Zero.
There are 3 ways available inward Java for Reading input.
Note: Using java.util.Scanner is the easier way together with it includes many methods to cheque input is valid to read.


Earlier when an enterprise's work related to a Website design was over, users flocked to visit your site and all was well. However, with the intense competition that is prevalent nowadays, it is best to give a thought to your website seeing its role as a leads generator to enhance your enterprise. To give a fresh and major overhaul to your website, this article will deal with the main things to be implemented.
Research reveals that customers are enthralled by a website whose layout is not normal and is very much unique in a sense. Typically the online purchasers and your website visitors are used to seeing the same design when it comes to layout in a majority of the websites. This creates a sense of viewing the same things, again and again, leading to people losing interest. Thereby take a unique approach to web design where offering alluring aspects, the people's attention is retained. Thereby this signifies how a layout is important in the web design perspective.
The people of this era people demand classy and distinct things. A key feature to be implemented to promote distinctness in your website is using powerful graphics and alluring icons. Seeing that most of the websites feature the same graphics and icons on their websites, this is a golden opportunity which should not be wasted at any cost. This enables you to gain the advantageous edge in competition and in turn retain the old customers and enthrall new ones at the same time.
Barring the background of your website which is white the other elements comprising the likes of Headers, Footers, Links and the such have to be enriched with the brightest colors. Examples like Light yellow, leafy green and dark pink remain hot favorites among the user base.
Despite several font options available in the thousands, it is Calibri and Cambria which is used in 70% of the cases. It is the visitor's preference for fonts which find their effectiveness in allowing them to read things easily. The two aforementioned fonts which are used to such an extent have made users to lose attention when reading them.
Choosing the font is needed to be done wisely particularly in cases where in-depth content is featured. Relying on a unique but captivating typography will enchant the user base to come back again to your website.
Animations are also an aspect that is marvelous to the eye and to ultimately enthrall your audience base. Another emerging element is videos when coming to content delivery. It is effective to interlink YouTube videoes with the website content along with the best number of animations and other such transitions for the better.


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Free Consultations 24/7 / No Fees Until We Win
Visalia Pedestrian Accident on North Bridge Street Kills 1, Injures 1
By Alpine Law Group
Pedestrian Killed, Another Hospitalized after Visalia Crash on North Bridge Street near Four Creeks Elementary School
Visalia, California (April 3, 2020) – A traffic accident on Bridge Street in Visalia killed one pedestrian Thursday night and left another with injuries on Bridge Street in Visalia.
According to the report, the two victims were either walking or crossing North Bridge Street near Four Creeks Elementary School when a vehicle hit them at around 8:45 p.m. on April 2.
One of the pedestrians died at the scene while the other was rushed to a hospital with unspecified injuries. Their names have not been disclosed.
There were no details provided about the driver involved and vehicle.
Police asked anyone who witnessed the accident to call them at 734-8116.
A person on foot is no match for a vehicle. Pedestrians have virtually no protection when they are hit by cars, motorcycles, trucks, and other vehicles. Sadly, this often leads to catastrophic injuries and/or death. "Due to the incredibly serious nature of these types of injuries, pedestrian accident cases often require special care in order to help ensure victims receive the full compensation they need for extensive medical bills, ongoing rehabilitation therapy, in-home care, lost past and future earnings, and numerous other economic and non-economic damages", Said Arin Khodaverdian, an experienced pedestrian accident attorney.
Arin noted that pedestrians, in most instances, have the right-of-way when crossing a street or an intersection. According to Arin, to properly investigate a pedestrian crash and prove negligence, enough resources are required. "A skilled attorney has the resources and will help investigate the accident to determine the party at fault," Arin said
Alpine Law Group Sends strength and condolences to the accident victims and their families
Alpine Law Group sends strength and condolences to the accident victims and their families. Our firm stands ready to help those affected by tragedy obtain the justice they deserve. We can also help you obtain a copy of the police report free of charge. Call us 24/7 at 800-984-4123 to be directly connected with an attorney for a no-obligation consultation. There are no up-front fees and you pay us nothing if we don't win. You may also contact us via text message and online chat 24/7. We look forward to speaking with you.
There Is No Fee Unless We Win
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This is an Attorney Advertisement prepared for general information purposes only and is not legal advice. Transmission and receipt of the information here is not intended to create an attorney-client relationship and no relationship is formed with our firm absent a signed retainer agreement. Readers should not act upon information without professional counsel. Do not send confidential information on this site. Attorney licensed to practice law in California and Washington. Prior results do not guarantee similar outcome. $100 Million is the aggregate (total) of all amounts recovered by our firm and/or its attorneys and co-counsel. We look forward to assisting you.