text:
Resolved: This House would overturn United Stat...
Buddamoose
Resolved: This House would overturn United States v Darby(1941)
With 3 votes and 9 points ahead, the winner is ...
~ 1,352 / 5,000
This debate is intended to examine the landmark ruling of the Supreme Court of the United States in United States v Darby 312 US 100(1941).[1-Summary][2-Full Case Brief]
In this case it was decided that a Federally mandated minimum wage was constitutional, and cemented minimum wage laws from there-on to today.
It should be noted that this is an examination of a court ruling, and therefore an acceptance of the validity of the framework set forth by the founding documents of the US. Con has full use and benefit of the principle of stare decisis in legal decision making. Legal arguments take priority, but, the harms and benefits of minimum wage are wholly applicable to argumentation. Basically imagine if both myself and the contender are making a case before SCOTUS today, on this very same ruling. Arguments should thusly be structured accordingly.
It should also be noted that this case established the *Federal* power to mandate minimum wage laws, not states ability to. The states ability to was affirmed in West Coast Hotel Co. v Parrish US 300 US 379(1937)[3].
Thank you for reading and best of luck to whomever accepts this debate!
[1]https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Darby_Lumber_Co.
[2]https://www.law.cornell.edu/supremecourt/text/312/100
[3]https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Coast_Hotel_Co._v._Parrish
To start I would like to thank any who are reading this debate, I hope you enjoy it. Also, thank you as well Rational for accepting this debate. This should be a fun debate and an interesting examination of a decades old Supreme Court ruling in light of what we now have discovered in the present. With that being said, let us begin...
First, I would like to give some observances from researching this case. US v Darby was a pivotal decision in the relationship between Federal and State law. Darby was the start of a 54 year period of time in which no Federal expansions into intrastate commerce were rejected.[1] This is quite a long time for expansions of Federal power to go unchecked. It is my humble estimation that the Court at that time was being reactionary to a time of crisis. They had in previous years and that very same staunchly rejected Federal attempts to expand into intrastate commerce. With rulings such as:
-A. L. A. Schechter Poultry Corp. v. United States, 295 U.S. 495 (1935)[1]
-United States v. Butler, 297 U.S. 1 (1936)[2]
-Carter v. Carter Coal Co., 298 U.S. 238 (1936)[3]
the court upheld a narrow interpretation of the commerce clause of Article 1, Section 8, Clause 3 of the constitution that grants Congress the power "to regulate commerce with foreign nations, and among the several states, and with the Indian tribes."[5]. This interpretation strictly limited the scope of the clause to interstate commerce, and not intrastate commerce. These rulings for obvious reasons did not go well with the general public, and that intensified with Morehead v. New York ex rel. Tipaldo, 298 U.S. 587 (1936)[6]. It was in this case that the Supreme Court ruled against even a state mandated minimum wage law. This was an extreme error as it set in motion President Roosevelts plan to add more justices to the supreme court. Indeed, the aforementioned case of West Coast Hotel v Parrish was ruled at the height of tensions regarding the supreme court. This case is oft referred to as "The switch in time that saved nine."[7]
This decision was correct in my estimation, but the era of Federal expansionism it saw with the switching of Justice Roberts vote and an ever broadening interpretation of the commerce clause was not. This interpretation i hold, is predicated upon a false interpretation of the clause itself. Thusly we reach the first part of my case, an examination of the commerce clause and the language contained therein.
The Commerce Clause
"to regulate commerce with foreign nations, and among the several states, and with the Indian tribes.
Commerce as we would define it today is the activity of buying and selling, especially on a large scale. This is actually quite close to the specific meaning of commerce as used by the framers of the Constitution. As Professor Randy E Barnett of the University of Chicago wrote in 2001,
"While Justice Thomas has maintained that the original meaning of "commerce" was limited to the "trade and exchange" of goods and transportation for this purpose, some have argued that he is mistaken and that "commerce" originally included any "gainful activity." Having examined every appearance of the word "commerce" in the records of the Constitutional Convention, the ratification debates, and the Federalist Papers, Professor Barnett finds no surviving example of this term being used in this broader sense. In every appearance where the context suggests a specific usage, the narrow meaning is always employed."[8]
"In sum, according to the original meaning of the Commerce Clause, Congress has power to specify rules to govern the manner by which people may exchange or trade goods from one state to another, to remove obstructions to domestic trade erected by states, and to both regulate and restrict the flow of goods to and from other nations (and the Indian tribes) for the purpose of promoting the domestic economy and foreign trade."[8]
Thusly, I contest the validity of Federal regulation when it pertains to wage agreements made within the States.
As can be seen in US 116, the courts at the time held the interpretation that "commerce" included any "gainful activity.
"interstate commerce should not be made the instrument of competition in the distribution of goods produced under substandard labor conditions, which competition is injurious to the commerce and to the states from and to which the commerce flows."[9]
As such we must come to the realization that this interpretation is applying too broad a scope to the commerce clause as originally intended. Gainful activity as implied is not under the purview of the Federal government to regulate, and wage laws would clearly fall under the purview still of intrastate commerce. As wage agreements are an exchange of labor and time for wage, sometimes to include benefits, but not necessarily, compensation. It must therefore be concluded that wage compensation laws still fall under the purview of the 10th amendment[10].
Furthermore, as Barnett continues in his paper, he cites Justice Clarence Thomas and his interpretation of the commerce clause,
"According to Justice Thomas, "at the time the original Constitution was ratified, 'commerce' consisted of selling, buying, and bartering, as well as transporting for these purposes." He also cited the etymology of the word, which literally means "with merchandise." He then noted that "when Federalists and Anti-Federalists discussed the Commerce Clause during the ratification period, they often used trade (in its selling/bartering sense) and commerce interchangeably." The term "commerce," according to Justice Thomas, "was used in contradistinction to productive activities such as manufacturing and agriculture."...activity. In cases such as United States v E.C. Knight Co, the Court distinguished "commerce" from manufacturing or agriculture, and held that the regulation of either manufacturing or agriculture exceeded the powers of Congress under the clause."[8]
Given this precedent supplied by U.S. v E.C. Knight Co.[12], as a manufacturer of lumber, Darby Lumber Co. would be likewise exempted from federal regulation under the commerce clause. And as the court in Darby asserted itself that any incidental and indirect ramifications of the Fair Labor Standards Act were not of relevance to the clause or the court, so that same rationale should be applied here, that any incidental or indirect advantages gained from differentiation in wages between states, is not of relevance to the clause or the court.
After careful deliberation, I will reserve arguments upon the practical effects of overturning this ruling in the present for the next round, and cede the floor to Rational.
[1]https://www.georgiaencyclopedia.org/articles/government-politics/united-states-v-darby-1941
[1]https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/295/495/
[2]https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/297/1/
[5]https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/commerce_clause
[7]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Coast_Hotel_Co._v._Parrish
[8]https://www.bu.edu/rbarnett/Original.htm
[9]https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/312/100/#116
[10]https://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/tenth_amendment
[11]https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/necessary_and_proper_clause
[12]https://www.oyez.org/cases/1850-1900/156us1
I am using British English outside of quotes. I had to cut down this debate due to unwarned character restrictions. Max = 20K
What is US Law and 'Rightful Legislation' in the context of a SCOTUS ruling?
When we discuss a matter like this we can of course begin at a Nihilistic outlook that nothing matters and there's no inherent value in something being legal but what we can't do is leave it at that. We begin there and then analyse the value system and need to enter the stage where we concede basic values and/or fundamental 'pillars' or poles upon which the rest of law is built.
For USA this is not only the Constitution but also legal precedent in laws made matching that of the suggested one. I will now give links to 2 diagrams (can't embed images themselves and display them with the current tech here) which will illustrate the hierarchy in which the Supreme Court is (image 1.1) and then will go into details about just how much the Supreme Court rules over (image 1.2).
[Image 1.1]
Based on these images, we can see that the Supreme Court of the United States (SCOTUS) is essentially the highest authority short of the Constitution that leads the Judicial Branch as opposed to the Legislative Branch or Executive Branch in USA. So what exactly is this 'Judicial Branch' relative to other branches? In the following quote 'our' means American/US.
Please read source (character restrictions)
- https://www.trumanlibrary.org/whistlestop/teacher_lessons/3branches/1.htm
So what Prop (The side of Proposition) is actually saying is shockingly that the legislation that was clearly approved by the Legislative branch and then enacted into Law instead of just a Bill by the President of the United States (POTUS) is having enough grounds to be overturned by SCOTUS...
Creating laws is the U.S. House of Representatives' most important job. All laws in the United States begin as bills. Before a bill can become a law, it must be approved by the U.S. House of Representatives, the U.S. Senate, and the President.
- https://kids-clerk.house.gov/grade-school/lesson.html?intID=17
Yet what exactly is the grounds to overturn this, let alone to conclude that SCOTUS will agree that the grounds is sufficient to enact the overturning of it as a result of this appeal?
To understand why Pro is wrong to conclude this, we do need to appreciate how outrageous the idea of this ever getting put up for appeal is but to then comprehend why the SCOTUS will say 'no, we need to keep that' takes comprehension of the harms that lacking a minimum wage does to a society and just what the law was made to avoid for very morally correct reasons regarding the poor in the US (and perhaps even outside it but that's more of an indirect angle of justifying the law).
I would like to open with an excerpt from a brilliantly written article by Frances Coppola of Forbes:
The real reason why we need a minimum wage has nothing to do with the welfare of workers or the availability of jobs. Welfare is adequately ensured by in-work benefits, and the State is perfectly happy to create the illusion of employment in order to please voters. No, the minimum wage is necessary to protect taxpayers from the rational desire of firms to get something for nothing.
The simple fiscal argument for minimum wage legislation goes like this. Both the UK and the US have systems of in-work benefits that top up wages to a level sufficient to live on. So from firms' perspective, when there is slack in the labour market (unemployment) they have little incentive to pay wages high enough to live on. And from workers' perspective, they have little incentive to demand higher wages, especially if the consequence might be unemployment. If there is no minimum wage, therefore, then the co-existence of unemployment with in-work benefits drives down wages to below subsistence level. As the majority of government tax income comes from households, not firms, over time this becomes unsustainable: all unskilled workers become in effect employees of the state, and the higher skilled are forced to subsidise the wages of the unskilled through rising taxes. There would inevitably be calls for in-work benefits to be cut, probably supported by demonization of the poor. Unskilled workers would be subject to the same accusations of "fecklessness" and "scrounging" as the unemployed already receive. So in-work benefits without a legislated minimum wage are fiscally unsustainable and socially divisive when there is persistent unemployment.
This simple analysis does of course assume that unemployment is a real threat to a worker's standard of living. But arguments that the unemployed "choose leisure" imply that unemployment is a choice. If it is, then it cannot really be seen as a realistic threat. If the unemployed can refuse work without cost or sanction, then unemployment benefits themselves act as a minimum wage and there is no need for additional legislation.
- https://www.forbes.com/sites/francescoppola/2014/01/13/why-we-need-a-minimum-wage/
What happens, unless your nation is run by ruthlessly Capitalist sociopaths who care nothing for their poor, is that in absence of minimum wage they start having to encourage corporations to give many fringe benefits to employees and need to 'make up for the gap' that could be patched by forcing a minimum wage as suddenly their poor are too poor to afford essentials such as healthcare, even regular supply of food and perhaps their bills of energy etc. Which can lead to them freezing in winter or starving (which makes them too malnourished to do their job well so they get fired and even more poor and a drain on the economy if given unemployment benefits of any kind).
Minimum wages are, as is evident in all nations we'd regard as highly developed in the modern age are present and high. Now let me just display to you how little of a joke it is that there's a link between lacking it and having high poverty (if the government chooses to not subsidise the gap in other ways.
I will be using this source for the following section: https://www.hcamag.com/hr-news/highest-and-lowest-minimum-wages-around-the-world--how-does-australia-stack-up-186915.aspx
Think of countries that are highly developed and lack poverty or abuse of the poor in any sense. Just think of it. Now think of the opposite; nations high in poverty that truly leave their poor to rot in inhuman conditions in slums.
The top 10 nations in highest minimum wage are (first place through to tenth) Australia, Luxembourg, Monaco, France, Belgium, San Marino (this is a tiny nation within the bigger surrounding nation of Italy), New Zealand, Ireland, Netherlands and Canada.
The top 10 lowest minimum wages go to... Are you ready for it? Here we go; Gambia, Guinea-Bissau, Malawi, Tanzania, Central African Republic, Kyrgyzstan, Bangladesh, Cuba, Sierra Leone and Uganda.
Let's just draw some concrete, verifiable, correlations here between that and what I am proposing is directly attached to it. I would like to note that in this official taking of Human Development Index (HDI). Monaco and San Marino are left out as they are too small perhaps and are mentioned are 'other nations' at the bottom of the list.
So, if we look at the top 10 minimum wage nations we unsurprisingly see that in the top 10 HDI nations, a joint second between Australia and Switzerland is occuring at present and both Netherlands, Ireland and Canada make it into the top 10 witht he other nations of the top 10 who aren't Monaco or San Marino making it into the top 21 (France was 21)
http://hdr.undp.org/en/composite/HDI
What is HDI? Well here's a nice diagram: http://hdr.undp.org/sites/default/files/hdi.png Let's read the explanation though.
The HDI was created to emphasize that people and their capabilities should be the ultimate criteria for assessing the development of a country, not economic growth alone. The HDI can also be used to question national policy choices, asking how two countries with the same level of GNI per capita can end up with different human development outcomes. These contrasts can stimulate debate about government policy priorities.
The Human Development Index (HDI) is a summary measure of average achievement in key dimensions of human development: a long and healthy life, being knowledgeable and have a decent standard of living. The HDI is the geometric mean of normalized indices for each of the three dimensions.
The health dimension is assessed by life expectancy at birth, the education dimension is measured by mean of years of schooling for adults aged 25 years and more and expected years of schooling for children of school entering age. The standard of living dimension is measured by gross national income per capita. The HDI uses the logarithm of income, to reflect the diminishing importance of income with increasing GNI. The scores for the three HDI dimension indices are then aggregated into a composite index using geometric mean. Refer to Technical notes for more details.
The HDI simplifies and captures only part of what human development entails. It does not reflect on inequalities, poverty, human security, empowerment, etc. The HDRO offers the other composite indices as broader proxy on some of the key issues of human development, inequality, gender disparity and poverty.
- http://hdr.undp.org/en/content/human-development-index-hdi
The US even made it to the list ranked joint 10th with Canada but that's what I argue includes the minimum wage laws in the causality of the result. While the amount can be up for debate this comes down to a raw question of values in a society:
Do we care more about ruthlessly neglecting a suffering working class or about superficial unemployment rates being low as companies now can underpay many workers until the government inevitably has to force them to give better fringe benefits and has to subsidise the poor in other ways if it's psychopathic?
In fact, if we really care that little for the poor why not just suggest legalising child labour too? It's not an outrageous step, in nations where there's no forced or fixed minimum wage, they tend to also have no such thing as a minimum quality of working conditions or minimum age to work full-time. It's the identical attitude and I will prove it in detail if Prop challenges me on this but for now what I'll do is provide two links that support the correlation if you read them fully.
https://www.theguardian.com/sustainable-business/2016/mar/08/fashion-industry-protect-women-unsafe-low-wages-harassment
https://digitalcommons.ilr.cornell.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1243&context=intl
What I am going to explain here is that the laws resulting from the case of United States v Darby are not just minimum wage, they are precisely what I just mentioned. They are maximum working weeks, minimum wages and banning of child labour. They stop predation on the poor in all three senses and Prop is making it seem as if this is some trivial matter, Prop would have us open the flood gates that will quite literally make the US a living hell for the poor as is present in many nations lacking all three things (the third being lacking the ban on child labour, not lacking it).
The law was passed with a unanimously supported verdict of affirmation. Let me quote a very reliable source here on both the thigns I just claimed.
Facts of the case
In 1938, Congress passed the Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA) to regulate many aspects of employment, including minimum wages, maximum weekly hours, and child labor. When a lumber manufacturer, Darby, shipped lumber out of state, he was arrested for violating the FLSA. His charges were dismissed because the federal district court found that FLSA was unconstitutional. The court reasoned that the FSLA's potential effects on intrastate activities violated the Commerce Clause.
The unanimous Court upheld the FLSA. Relying heavily on the Court's decision in Gibbons v. Ogden (1824), Justice Stone affirmed the constitutional power of Congress to regulate interstate commerce, which "can neither be enlarged nor diminished by the exercise or non-exercise of state power." The Court held that the purpose of the FLSA was to prevent states from using substandard labor practices to their own economic advantage by interstate commerce. Congress acted with proper authority in outlawing substandard labor conditions since they have a significant impact on interstate commerce.
- https://www.oyez.org/cases/1940-1955/312us100
Do you want to know just what SCOTUS would be enabling to occur in the nation of the US if they were to overturn this (as opposed to amend a specific within it)? Do you actually want child labour and no minimum wage and have people begging their employers to not make inhumanely large working week hours?
Let's just clarify something about the maximum working week; it's the only one of the three that there's actually a fair alternative to in US law due to the ability of consenting it being something the poor would only do if capable. It's called overtime pay for those who don't know.
The federal overtime provisions are contained in the Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA). Unless exempt, employees covered by the Act must receive overtime pay for hours worked over 40 in a workweek at a rate not less than time and one-half their regular rates of pay. There is no limit in the Act on the number of hours employees aged 16 and older may work in any workweek. The Act does not require overtime pay for work on Saturdays, Sundays, holidays, or regular days of rest, unless overtime is worked on such days.
The Act applies on a workweek basis. An employee's workweek is a fixed and regularly recurring period of 168 hours — seven consecutive 24-hour periods. It need not coincide with the calendar week, but may begin on any day and at any hour of the day. Different workweeks may be established for different employees or groups of employees. Averaging of hours over two or more weeks is not permitted. Normally, overtime pay earned in a particular workweek must be paid on the regular pay day for the pay period in which the wages were earned.
- https://www.dol.gov/whd/overtime_pay.htm
The reason why, unlike child labour and minimum wage, this one has laws enabling it to be pushed past is that the basis for the maximum week is something that is believed to be something no human would ask to work more than unless totally capable and that so few humans would want to work more hours than. This means that while you could argue 'but won't everyone who is poor and desperate work longer then?' you must consider that overtime laws create a disincentive to push workers past the limit and only if the worker really is that good or the employer is really that short of staff they need the employee that bad at that time for emergency replacement would they pay them.
I guess all that's left to do is go through the clauses of the law and elaborate on them and/or justify them. I hope you fully understand the benefits of this law and what it does to protect the poor from abuse based on what I've said so far.
The source I'll use for quoting the law will be: https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/312/100/
I will state only the number to save characters (I was over limit)
This is stating a fact about another act and what it provides legal precedent to enact protection of the poor for. The issue is that the said Act only applied to those engaged in the production of goods for interstate commerce. This also explicitly states that it considers the Act consistent with the fifth and tenth amendments.
This is simply clarifying what exactly the law covers with regards to it being specific to regulating interstate commerce.
I interpret this clause as specifying that if Congress sees that a State is wrongly enforcing maximum working hours and/or minimum wage laws, it can forcibly prohibit trade of a good across state borders both to and from said state. I am unsure why this needed to be specified as it seems obvious to me.
This justifies why the above regulation is Constitutional and permitted based on what isn't directly prohibited for Congress to do to a State.
In short, the competition between States should never ever lead to the States paying their workers so little or making them work so many hours that it's inhumane for the worker to live on the wage or be capable of resting and having a life outside of their job respectively.
This interestingly would imply that SCOTUS would be wrong to intrude on the law as it's directly saying 'over which the courts are given no control' so I'm curious how Prop will address this. Perhaps Prop will say the enforcement of the law is in no way at all allowed to be challenged by courts but the law itself is by SCOTUS but then comes the question of 'why would they undo this?' which is what I've actively debated against in this Round.
This seems to be stating a fact again that the legislation is not unconstitutional.
Here is where limitations are addressed.
Here is Hammer v Dagenhart and what it enacted into law: - https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/247/251/
To cut a long story short, what is being said is that this child labour protection law can't apply to internal state affairs if it's Congress enforcing it and they can't necessarily force a State to (itself) not legalise state affairs but what the clause in US v Darby said that it concedes it can't enforce the child labour, minimum wage or even maximum working hours laws in coal production (even on an interstate level) because of Carter v. Carter Coal Clauses 2 and 3.
- https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/298/238/
So I guess it concedes that in coal manufacturing it can't directly apply Us v Darby until the coal itself is actually mined and considered a trade-worthy commodity.
Anyway, back to the clauses.
This follows on from clause 8 and says that as soon as something is produced, then the working condition laws apply.
So if an internal State industrial activities in any way are linked to interstate production and trade of said products, then the minimum wage laws etc. all apply to those workplaces.
This discusses the power Congress has to step in and influence the state in the name of protecting the poor.
So it seems industries themselves can justify embargo on industries they believe to have violated the minimum wage, maximum working week and any other working condition laws (as by the first clause this applies to more working conditions).
Defends the other clauses and ability of Congress to enforce the Act itself.
This just finished the legislation and was clarifying what was said before and elaborating on what is not violated by enacting this into law.
It should be noted that the reason this helps with the enforcement of child labour laws is that FLSA (mentioned in Clause 1) itself stops that and that's why it wasn't explicitly stated in this Act but it is entirely applicable since it's linking to FLSA from the first clause.
It appears that Con has been banned. As disappointing as that is, I feel it necessary to reserve the final part of my construct. However, I will still summarize a rebuttal of Cons construct/rebuttal.
As established in the full details of the debate, pre-debate, I am not arguing against the states right to establish minimum wage laws as affirmed in West Coast Hotel Co. v Parrish. I am arguing against a Federal minimum wage.
5 states currently do not have minimum wage laws and arguably might otherwise have them if not for the presence of a federal minimum wage.[1] This negates many of the harms Con proposed(but are not necessarily true) in repealing a minimum wage and the consequential harms and thus at least tangentially applicable to the "social welfare" clause as established in Article 1 Section 8 of the US Constitution:
"and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States."[2]
I was gonna get a little 🔥 spic🔥about the first part of Cons argument that questioned the authority of Judicial Review as established in the Judiciary Act of 1789, particularly Section 13[3], and in precedent via Marbury v Madison[4] but feel such an examination facially unnecessary in summary.
Thank you again for reading.
[1]https://www.dol.gov/whd/minwage/america.htm
[2]https://www.law.cornell.edu/anncon/html/art1frag29_user.html
[3]http://www.constitution.org/uslaw/judiciary_1789.htm
[4]https://www.law.cornell.edu/supremecourt/text/5/137
Note: The maximum character count has just been altered to 30k but I'm not complaining as it was an evil for both debaters in Round 1.
Further Note: Because on this website, Pro/Con are not yet alterable factors between Instigator and Contender, it is possible that 'Con' is the side in support of the resolution in some debates I do not feel it is then accurate to use Pro and Con sides. The Contending side is not necessarily against the resolution even though in this debate it is. I prefer to use Prop and Opp and will explain that in my first paragraph. This is not poor grammar and this is not confusing; this is correct terminology that I use on Debate Island and even planning out real life debates.
To comprehend what has happened here it is very important to understand the role of Proposition (Prop) in a debate as opposed to the role of Opposition (Opp). Prop exists fundamentally to come up with ideas and push them forth as combined basis to end up concluding that the resolution is true. On the other hand, Opp exists to do one of two things, one is to accept some pillars as true and some as false (or all as false) and explain how to reach the very opposite, or a very different, result regarding the resolution that Prop did but it goes further than that as the secondary role of Opp is to say that the resolution itself is flawed at times.
I have thus far served as an inverse Prop to my side's stance regarding the resolution but it's time to become more destructive than constructive and this is not bad conduct or poor debating, this is the fundamental role of the side of Opposition in a debate and in this debate it's even fairer as Prop get the first word each round and as is evident is intentionally hiding information for later.
To justify this accusation, In Round 1, Prop states:
After careful deliberation, I will reserve arguments upon the practical effects of overturning this ruling in the present for the next round.
What is most shocking is not that Prop did this as I am entitled to bring new point in Round 2 to combat his new points but that in Round 2, Prop furthermore states:
I was gonna get a little 🔥 spic[sic]🔥about the first part of Cons argument that questioned the authority of Judicial Review as established in the Judiciary Act of 1789, particularly Section 13[3], and in precedent via Marbury v Madison[4] but feel such an examination facially unnecessary in summary.
This debate has become (from Prop's side) a nonsensical barrage of accusation towards the very legal system and authority of the entire Legislative Branch of justice as well as Executive.
What I find most interesting is that in the comments section as well as Round 1, Prop specified that this was a debate about what SCOTUS would/will do and not what ideally should be done. Then Prop completely backtracks on this and starts speaking of how it's wrong on some deep level to enforce a federal-extent of minimum wage and maximum working week on interstate commerce.
I find this amusing because Prop is contradicting the very basis for their angle but I agree that this actually is a debate about what SCOTUS should do and not about what SCOTUS is likely to do. So I will let Prop alter the debate how they've altered it because I am now going to prove that both SCOTUS should and ultimately will not do what the resolution would have him/her do in the current state of American politics as well as in the foreseeable future.
The Amendments that Prop is saying are somehow being touched on or violated are the fifth and tenth.
I shall go ahead and quote these Amendments.
No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a grand jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the militia, when in actual service in time of war or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.
- https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/fifth_amendment
This is actually something the entire Law is based upon, not something it violates.
Let's look at the tenth Amendement (the one Prop says is being directly violated by the legislation):
- https://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/tenth_amendment
But you will find that there was a unanimous agreement in the voting on the legislation and that in Clause 1 (oh yes, the first Clause) it is mentioned that by voting for the legislation, one is agreeing it doesn't violate the Tenth Amendment. The fact is also that while the Judicial Branch of US Law is held beneath the Constitution in hierarchy, one must also understand that the Constitution itself admits it may well be flawed in specifics and it makes sense it admits this as while the Founding Fathers are considered to have had the right intentions, they didn't have superhuman foresight and couldn't know how matters like minimum wage and maximum working week would play into the law and just how brutal it is to the poor to not force states to not compete by having an unbearably low wage or high working week (and definitely not to compete by having children working in the industry).
The Congress, whenever two thirds of both houses shall deem it necessary, shall propose amendments to this Constitution, or, on the application of the legislatures of two thirds of the several states, shall call a convention for proposing amendments, which, in either case, shall be valid to all intents and purposes, as part of this Constitution, when ratified by the legislatures of three fourths of the several states, or by conventions in three fourths thereof, as the one or the other mode of ratification may be proposed by the Congress; provided that no amendment which may be made prior to the year one thousand eight hundred and eight shall in any manner affect the first and fourth clauses in the ninth section of the first article; and that no state, without its consent, shall be deprived of its equal suffrage in the Senate.
- https://www.archives.gov/federal-register/constitution/article-v.html
So, I would go so far as to argue that if it is found (which it has not and will not be found) that the Tenth Amendment does somehow ban the ability of the Federal Government to force states to not compete by abusing the poor with inhumane wages or working weeks among other working conditions, then it is actually the Tenth Amendment that should be seen to be fixed and not this law that should be overturned and open the flood gates to enabling poverty and abuse of employees.
So, not only does Prop have to explain why exactly it is that the first clause of the law is incorrect in pushing agreement with the Fifth and Tenth Amendment but Prop furthermore must explain why, if it is found that the Tenth Amendment is written in such a manner that the law can't protect employees in the way it does that it is not the Tenth Amendment which itself should be put up for alteration.
What I notice in Prop's entire case is no alternative to the law. Prop remains blissfully ignorant of (or if not is intentionally deceiving the reader away from) the fact that if even one State is allowed to have lower wages or higher working week than the rest this would mean all other states would not be as efficient or able to compete with that State in insterstate commerce. So, while a state alone can legally (as Prop points out) have no minimum wage itself, one can argue that since this is only used for instra-state commerce, that State is fine as people can just move out of it and don't even need a passport to do so in order to go to a better legislated state for the poor. It should be noted I am against the States that have no minimum wage or maximum working week but that I respect that the Tenth Amendment protects their ability to have such due to it being a State affair. What happens with interstate commerce, however, is that it becomes an immediately unfair competition between the states if even one of them is able to work people for longer hours at lower wages than the rest and this incentivises all other states to join in and abuse their poor employees in the same way if they want to not be pushed into bankruptcy. While on a worldwide-level it hasn't yet been stopped to abuse the poor in this way too much by the UN, the exposure of Nike sweatshops [http://uk.businessinsider.com/how-nike-fixed-its-sweatshop-image-2015-6] among many other events are hopefully pushing the world to stop this inhumane competing.
The Federal Government is responsible for the people of USA. If the US is having state-only issues, the Tenth Amendment prevents the Federal Government from strongarming the State into giving in and instead other States would need to petition to deal with the State's inhuman laws in another way perhaps by embargoing the interstate commerce (even though this would be an instra-state commerce working condition matter, this would help make the State give in). What is apparent however, is it is withing Federal Power to make laws regarding interstate commerce. There's absolutely no reason to allow States to become so inhumane in their conditions. The reason that I state in Round 1 that minimum wage is needed is that the alternative will involve the Federal Government needing to subsidise the poor in states without it if their wages are so low they can barely survive on them or their working weeks are so long they can barely stay awake to work the next day and end up jobless and left to rot.
I conclude that Prop has not successfully provided any humane alternative to minimum wage or maximum working weeks and also is incorrect to be only focusing on minimum wage as maximum working weeks are covered in the legislation as well. It is actually a means to apply the entirety of FLSA (which includes child labour laws in it) to interstate commerce.
To many my ban and unban will be luck. To those who know, there is strategy behind my insanity.
Prop concedes in entirety in the comments section and proves it by forfeiting Round 3.
W is yours for this debate, getting the W isnt of particular importance to me so its no skin off me bones
After consideration, with that being said, have the W 👏. I'll just leave this debate to being done with Virtuoso as arguing the same topic twice simultaneously is just something that will melt my brain tbh and I consequentially won't be giving my full effort.
- Prop
W = win.
I have said all that needs to be said and Prop has themselves said what I said has been true and is worthy of their forfeit. End of discussion, I win thank you.
Go take another nap and worry about your own issues.
After taking a nap. I'm sorry for the name-calling. Still consider it accurate, there was a better way to communicate what I was trying to regarding reciprocating what you fed me.
"Such as me questioning your reasoning behind SCOTUS being entitled to override what the other 2 branches agreed on? Yeah that was Devil's Advocate prodding at your side, not unethical I'm glad we can agree"
Bringing up Judicial Review was not unethical. "Devil's Advocate" is not an accurate defense of your actions, because I never said that was unethical. It was if anything humorous because you questioned SCOTUS authority to overturn law, when that authority was itself granted by legislation.
You admitted a total willingness to act unethically, actually did so in deciding to slander me regarding 1) implying I underestimate you(something you still claim)
2) claiming lack of good faith acting ("lack of effort"
"To some my ban may seem like luck, but others will know there's a strategy behind my madness"
"Don't you dare drop your guard against me"
"Its a war"
"I'll do what I need(to win)"
"Your lack of strategy"
Hoss, simmer down with the ego stroking and realize, the more you speak, the more you sound like you actually did cheat 😂.
It's absurd that you did, def some post facto justification, but oh boy, take a deep breath, maybe take a nap like I did? Did wonders for my crankiness 😂😂
"Never said you cheated here"
You did.
"are willing to act unethically and cheat to win."
never said you cheated *here*
*are willing to act*
>here(in debate)
>Are willing to
You understand, thats not the same thing 🤔
That all you got? Am I supposed to think there'll be a consequence?
Don't you dare drop your guard again against me. Fear me to the core of your being or lose every time.
I fear and respect all my opponents and that is why I'm so much better than all of them. When you are coming up with a rebuttal to me or an argument for the resolution, I already knew you'd come up with it and how to perfectly counter it.
Here's the thing. You are right, I'm being a dick, because I'm reciprocating what you gave me.
This debate started out fine, fairly respectful on both sides, total overuse of buzzwords when arguing aside. Then you get banned, it was disappointing. I asked why you were, pointed out in forums there didn't appear to be a good reason for doing so as of yet.
You then come back, attribute to me nefariousness and ill intent with "underestimating" and "think I'm crazy". Congrats, I actually do think that now, way to go bringing about the same outcome you complained about.
Then proceed to continue acting like a dick in attributing poor faith in debating, "lack of effort" despite there being clear and good reason to cancel/restart.
But no, ever the one to chase the W at all costs, you refuse to cancel the debate, and insist we continue this, AND restart anew simultaneous. Again, rather unethical considering the debate was derailed *by you getting banned*.
You then proceed to be a dick by stating in R3 that I said, despite never actually doing so, that I conceded due to your arguments being superior.
And you call me a liar despite me accurately paraphrasing? Here's the thing, you could've been respectful and been like, hey, this debate got derailed, my opponent has decided to concede due to starting this same debate up with another. Just couldn't do that could you? Just couldn't help but be a dick.
I'm calling you a dick because it is a 100% accurate term for your behavior. That I'm reciprocating it back unto you may be wrong on my part, but it is funny to watch you dance around admitting you are what im saying you are 😂
The ToS were written after I got banned anyway and are not even confirmed as Virtuoso wrote them.
If you think I have violated terms of service go ahead and report me to the admin. Then read what you have written here and how you've spoken to me and ask yourself who is violating the rule of 'don't be a dick' and then kindly shut the f*** up and get lost.
Sure thing bud, you do understand near any site has codes of conduct users are expected to follow? And you just admitted, again, to be fully willing to act as unethical, and do whatever you need(that would rationally include cheating if necessary) to win.
Even ignoring the latter implications, admission of willingness to act as unethically as necessary is probably going to fly in the face of any terms of service or ethical code of conduct.
You are a dick not because you lie but that is part of it yes, 'dicks' often do lie as part of their verbal harassment.
You said I was lying, "or your lies"
Last i checked, "you are a liar" =\= you are a dick. There's that wit of yours shining through again 😂😂
You reserve judgement because there will be zero consequence for what I have admitted here. You will look over-emotional and easy to trigger and that's about it.
You need not have cheated here to show your hand. You've given every indication to hold that you would, if given the opportunity and means to do so, while consequentially getting away with it.
Just as with being unethical, you had the opportunity, the means, and figured you could get away with it and get a W, so you did it.
You can have the W, I would reserve judgement on potential consequences for admitting willingness to act in such a manner 🤔
"You're calling me a dick and I'm not!" is what you just did right there just before saying I did it.
If I lack effort and strategy and you lost to me then either I got lucky or you are wrong. Considering my track record so far on this site, it's apparent I have strategy even if it isn't taking me much effort to have such excellent strategy.
You separated it from the 'unethical' and added it on to the list of accusations.
"Devil's advocate is when you argue for something you disagree with. Devil's advocate is not, however, acting in an unethical manner when debating."
Such as me questioning your reasoning behind SCOTUS being entitled to override what the other 2 branches agreed on? Yeah that was Devil's Advocate prodding at your side, not unethical I'm glad we can agree.
"You accuse me of projection but every time you call me a dick, it tends to be that the post before and after you calling me a dick make it quite blatant which of the two of us is more so a 'dick'."
I'm calling you one for more than good reason, for which ive clearly elaborated. "Your calling me a dick, and im not!"
Is so lulz. What are you 5? Consider: I'm calling you as such because you actually are in this situation,
mr, "lack of effort and strategy".
"There is no cheating, playing devil's advocate is not cheating."
Never said you cheated here, said you acted highly unethically. While also admitting you would willingly cheat to obtain a W.
" I will do what I need"
"Debate is a war, its a battle"
"To many my ban and unban will be luck. To those who know, there is strategy behind my insanity."
Yes, that strategy is taking advantage of yourself getting banned and how that consequentially that derailed the debate. This clearly implies if you could, you would take such a course of action to derail a debate as a means to do what you need to secure a W.
Also, newsflash, "There is no cheating, playing devil's advocate is not cheating"
Devil's advocate is when you argue for something you disagree with. Devil's advocate is not, however, acting in an unethical manner when debating.
There is no cheating, playing devil's advocate is not cheating.
You accuse me of projection but every time you call me a dick, it tends to be that the post before and after you calling me a dick make it quite blatant which of the two of us is more so a 'dick'.
"or your lies"
Phew, classic projection,
" I will do what I need to in order to bring as much doubt onto your side and confidence in my side."
Ive not lied here, but you sure have and admitted to having zero issue doing so 🔥
Sure bud, whatever you gotta tell yourself to justify you being a dick 😂😂
And if it's ok to you to do whatever it takes, why take personal offense to my rebuttal, as denoted by the whining about people underestimating you and thinking ur crazy.
If you wanna know why they think the latter, look at this conversation right here, this is your answer. thanks for fully admitting you are willing to act unethically and cheat to win. 😂😂
You can put laughing faces, it won't make the loss or your lies any more in your favour. I am superior to you as a debater and you can't get over it.
"it is a war, a battle"
No, its not. You want it to be that way to delude yourself into thinking acting unethically in a debate is justified.
Also, highly convenient, "I wasn't saying that"
"You clearly were"
"Well I wasn't being serious"
Lol how convenient 😂😂
Lol @ you trying to be like, "I never said that" you didn't have to outright state it, it was clear thats what you were doing. Also, paraphrasing also uses quotations too. Like I said, that's some hella wit you got there 😂😂😂
Do you know what debating is? Do you think everything I state or ask is my real view? It is a war, a battle and I will do what I need to in order to bring as much doubt onto your side and confidence in my side.
Yes, I am because of this,
"So what Prop (The side of Proposition) is actually saying is shockingly that the legislation that was clearly approved by the Legislative branch and then enacted into Law instead of just a Bill by the President of the United States (POTUS) is having enough grounds to be overturned by SCOTUS..."
This is a clear questioning of Judicial Review itself. "the grounds" in relation to "legislation" "enacted into law" clearly illustrates, again, a questioning of Judicial Review. You don't need to outright say it for it to be exactly what you did
You are putting quotation marks but if you do ctrl or cmd + f and type 'what authority' it doesn't come up with any results in the entire debate.
Some impressive wits right there 🔥
Forward »
Rational Madman is the most correct of the two.
Pro has forfeited.
Forfeit by pro.


If you want real competition among vendors who supply stuff to you, then sometimes you have to make it happen by yourself. The hyperscalers and big cloud builders of the world can do that, and increasingly they are taking the initiative and fostering such competition for compute.
With its first generation of Open Cloud Servers, which were conceptualized in 2012, put into production for its Azure public cloud in early 2013, and open sourced through the Open Compute Project in January 2014, Microsoft decided to leverage the power of the open source hardware community to make its own server design something akin to an industry standard, just as Facebook had itself done when it created the Open Compute Project back in 2011. The Microsoft Open Cloud Server didn't look much like the Facebook Open Rack and its various server and storage designs, so this is the funny bit. By its nature, the style of open hardware is open to interpretation. Microsoft didn't adopt Facebook's way of doing things so much as offer a completely different vision while tapping much of the same supply chain.
With its Project Olympus server design effort, which was unveiled in November 2016 and further fleshed out this week at the Open Compute Summit being hosted in Silicon Valley, Microsoft is moving away from a modular blade server style of machine and back to more standard 1U and 2U systems that can be configured for compute and storage workloads and put into standard 19-inch racks that come in 42U and 48U heights. Back in November, Kushagra Vaid, general manager of server engineering for Microsoft's cloud infrastructure, told us that about 50 percent of work for the Project Olympus server designs was completed, and today he tells us that about 80 percent of the work is done, with the final bits being validation and testing of the combined hardware and software stacks inside of Microsoft.
During the keynote today, Vaid and his colleague, distinguished engineer Leendert van Doorn, lifted the curtain on a bunch of server designs hewing to the Project Olympus standard. These include the machines based on Intel's future "Skylake" Xeon processors, which were discussed back in November, but significantly and somewhat surprisingly also include two server variants based on two ARM server chips – Cavium's ThunderX2 and Qualcomm's "Amberwing" Centriq 2400 – as well as one based on AMD's "Naples" X86 server chip (which is probably not going to be called Opteron and which we are betting will be called Zazen to be in harmony with the Ryzen desktop processors also based on the Zen chip architecture).
Perhaps even more astounding – and something we will cover separately – is the fact that the rumors from more than two years ago were true, and that Microsoft had indeed been working with ARM server chip makers to create a port of its Windows Server 2016 operating system from the X86 instruction set to the ARM architecture.
Suffice it to say, it was a good day for AMD's Naples processor, and perhaps a better day for ARM. But in the long run, Naples may win out over ARM chips if the price and the performance is right.
And that is precisely the point of Microsoft going through the effort of creating the ecosystem it wants to have for its own Azure software stack.
We will get to all of the feeds and speeds of the Microsoft machines in a minute, but the obvious question that we had is why go to all of the trouble of helping building an ARM ecosystem if a credible X86 alternative was on the horizon? The closer it gets to launch, the better the Naples chip is looking, particularly for the compute and data-intensive workloads that Azure runs. Neither Vaid nor Doorn were about to disparage AMD after it has spent years bringing the Zen architecture into being and creating what looks to be a pretty respectable processor and system so far, but the fact is that back in 203, when ARM servers looked to be a real possibility in the years ahead, confidence in AMD was not particularly high. And so Microsoft set out to do what Google has done, and that is to create build systems for its own code base that could deploy to X86 and ARM architectures and, equally importantly, embraced the Cambrian Explosion in compute and decided to let various CPUs, GPUs, FPGAs, and soon other kinds of compute into its Azure datacenters.
We are no longer in the general purpose era, and that means the Project Olympus servers had to reflect the wide variety of compute (and soon storage) elements that will comprise a system that is very tightly tuned for a specific workload – and not the other way around. The argument of tuning software for hardware is moot. Now, to get the best bang for the buck, you have to tune both. Just having a simple, homogenous X86 compute substrate will no longer do the trick.
And that, more than anything else, is why Microsoft is embracing not just Naples, and not just X86 plus ARM, but all of the other kinds of compute that will eventually find its way into Project Olympus systems.
We asked Microsoft about this, noting that with Naples chips soon appearing on the market, just having that competition with Intel Xeons would seem to be enough to get better pricing on compute.
The one thing that hyperscalers have had to do to keep their costs in line is to limit the variations in their infrastructure, which lowers support costs because there are fewer things to take care of as well as lowering costs because unit volumes – and therefore discounts – are higher with only a few SKUs compared to a lot of SKUs. Adding diversity will add some costs, and doing so has to mean getting an even better total cost of ownership over time. If this were not possible through the co-design of software and hardware, we would still be in the monolithic era that has largely persisted since the dot-com boom in the late 1990s and that made the X86 architecture the datacenter standard.
As one of the big eight hyperscalers and cloud builders in the world, when Microsoft taps an architecture and a vendor that sells it for its compute, it helps make or break that technology – and such a high level and potentially high volume customer like Microsoft is exactly what AMD, Cavium, and Qualcomm need to get the market excited about their processing capabilities.
Qualcomm designed the motherboard that is compatible with the Microsoft Olympus systems and has submitted it for opening up by the OCP. The machine is based on the 48-core Centriq 2400 processor, which in turn uses Qualcomm's own ARMv8-compliant "Falkor" core design. Importantly, like the Snapdragon 835 processor that recently started shipping for handheld devices, the Centriq 2400s are etched using a 10 nanometer process developed in conjunction with Samsung and that gives Qualcomm the process jump ahead of Intel, which is still at 14 nanometer processes with the current "Broadwell" and future "Skylake" Xeons.
It is unclear if the Centriq 2400 will support multiple sockets. The motherboard that Qualcomm created for the Olympus system has a single socket, and with 48 cores that is better than Intel is able to cram into two sockets with the Broadwell Xeons. (All cores are not created equal, obviously.) The Centriq 2400 system has six DDR memory channels per socket running at a top speed of 2.67 GHz, and one or two memory sticks can hang off each channel. That should mean memory tops out at 1.5 TB using totally impractical 128 GB sticks, and 768 GB using 64 GB sticks and a more practical 384 GB using 32 GB sticks. This Qualcomm server chip has a 50 Gb/sec Ethernet NIC embedded in its system-on-chip and has 32 lanes of PCI-Express 3.0 peripheral I/O for attaching other devices. It also has a single 1 Gb/sec Ethernet port for management, two USB connectors, and eight SATA ports.
The Centriq machine is certified to run the development version of Red Hat Enterprise Linux as well as its CentOS 7 clone and Canonical Ubuntu Server 16.04.3 – and now an internal variant of Windows Server 2016 that only Microsoft Azure has access to. Significantly, the machine uses GCC and LLVM compilers and Aptio-V BIOS and MegaRAC BMC hardware from American Megatrends, making it look more like an X86 server than it otherwise might.
As we have previously reported, The ThunderX2 chip will have 54 custom ARMv8 cores running at 3 GHz, with six memory channels running as high as 3.2 GHz. The memory capacity on the ThunderX2 is 50 percent higher than with the current ThunderX chip, and the bandwidth is twice as high, according to Cavium.
In this particular server, Cavium is putting sixteen memory sticks per socket on a two-socket motherboard and what looks like three PCI-Express x16 and one x8 slot on the board. These are PCI-Express 3.0 peripheral slots, by the way, not the PCI-Express 4.0 slots that IBM will offer on Power9 chips this year and that will have twice the bandwidth per slot. The Cavium chip will have multiple 100 Gb/sec controllers on the die, so this is less of a concern; it takes a PCI-Express 4.0 slot to drive a dual-port 100 Gb/sec Ethernet or InfiniBand card, which is why people care. This particular server does not have much in the way of local storage, but in a compute farm, all you need is a few M.2 flash memory sticks. It has two SATA ports and one Ethernet port, presumably running at 50 Gb/sec or 100 Gb/sec.
This two-socket Naples system has sixteen memory slots per socket, for a maximum capacity of 2 TB across the pair of sockets, and has three PCI-Express 3.0 x16 slots and two x8 slots. It also has two Ethernet ports on the mobo, which presumably run at 50 Gb/sec or maybe even 100 Gb/sec. It looks like it has four SATA ports, two USB ports, and one 1 Gb/sec port for management.
These ThunderX2 and Centriq 2400 ARM servers and the AMD Naples server are not deployed in production within Microsoft's Azure cloud, but are running in the labs at the moment using early samples of the chips from their respective vendors. Microsoft is not making a formal commitment to use any of them in production, but does say that ARM servers (and we think the Naples X86 chips, too) are particularly well suited for "high-throughput computing" such as search engine indexing and serving, storage, databases, data analytics, and machine learning. The demos of the two ARM servers running at OCP Summit were doing a subset of the Bing search engine workload on top of Windows Server 2016, in fact.
ARM on Windows is a waste of time, for the same reason that porting Windows NT to architectures like Alpha, MIPS, PowerPC, SPARC etc was a waste of time back in the 1990s: it is too hard to write portable proprietary applications. And the only reason to run Windows is because of its base of proprietary applications.
So ARM Windows will be stuck in the chicken-and-egg situation, where customers won't buy it because of the lack of apps, and vendors won't port their apps because of the lack of customers. Just like Itanium, really.
Only Open Source apps can be truly portable. That's why you can get complete Linux-based platform stacks running on so many different architectures.


text:
Elgin Baylor Biography
Elgin Baylor (b. December 16, 1934) was one of the most graceful and acrobatic forwards to ever play the game of basketball playing 15 seasons for the NBA's Minneapolis and Los Angeles Lakers.
Elgin Baylor played college basketball at Seattle University, leading the Chieftains to the NCAA Championship game in 1958 (where they lost to the Kentucky Wildcats. Following his junior season, Baylor joined the Minneapolis Lakers for the 1958-1959 season and moving with them to Los Angeles in 1960.
In 1959, Baylor was named the NBA Rookie of the Year and from the 1960-61 to the 1962-63 seasons, he averaged 34.8, 38.3 and 34.0 points per game, leading the Lakers to the NBA Finals eight times (although never winning). Baylor was a 10-time All-NBA First Team selection and went to the NBA All-Star Game 11 times.
Baylor began to be hampered with knee problems during the 1963-64 season and, while still a very powerful force, was never quite the same player, never averaging above 30 points per game again. During Baylor's career, the Lakers were a consistently powerful team, but were continuously overshadowed by the Boston Celtics dynasty of the time.
Baylor finally retired during the 1971-72 season because of his nagging knee problems and, ironically, the Lakers went on to win the NBA Championship that season, something that Baylor never achieved. He finished his career with an astonishing 23,149 points, 3,650 assists and 11,463 rebounds over 846 games.
In 1974, Baylor was hired to be an assistant coach and later the head coach for the New Orleans Jazz, but had a lackluster 86-135 record and retired following the 1978-79 season. In 1986, Baylor was hired by the Los Angeles Clippers as the team's vice president of basketball operations, where he still is today.
In 1977, Baylor was elected to the Basketball Hall of Fame and in 1980 he was named to the NBA 35th Anniversary All-Time Team and again in 1996, he was named to the NBA 50th Anniversary All-Time Team.
Elgin Baylor Resources
This article is licensed under the GNU Free Documentation License. It uses material from the Wikipedia article Elgin Baylor.

redpajama_set_name: RedPajamaCommonCrawl


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Eg24 News
Home Mix The star Yousra; She breaks her silence and boldly reveals to...
The star Yousra; She breaks her silence and boldly reveals to her current husband and confesses about the man she wished to have sex with and who refused to even look at her! Interesting details
It's 05:30 a.m.
Island Bay | Follow Favorite

The artist, Yousra, is considered the most frequent companion of the leader, Adel Imam, among the actresses of his time, and she has collected dozens of films, series and others with him.
The artist said during a television interview, "The most beautiful thing about Adel Imam is the scenes working with him. He used to make the scenes happy and get to know everyone present. He is a beautiful and light-blooded person."
In the following lines, "Here" presents the relationship of leader Adel Imam and artist Yousra.
And the artist, Yousra, had previously spoken, during her program with the famous doll "Abla Fahita", in her "Duplex" program broadcast on the "ON" satellite channel, about her relationship with the leader, saying,
"I succeeded by appearing with Adel Imam, and he is the only artist who agreed to have his name written before me. Adel Imam is the only artist who, if he had asked to marry me, I would not have been able to refuse him… Adel Imam, if he had proposed to me, I would have rejected him and I would have married him."
The artist continued to talk about the leader, "He explained and made people happy all the time, laughing and joking, and he loved Farfasha, his blood is light and his love is sweet."
And Yusra Fadel Adel Imam has previously described her: "I embraced the world through Adel Imam, and the duet that we did is still alive, and we did 17 films together, and there is chemistry between us in all the films, and when I look at him I feel relaxed and happy, and he makes me act in a mood."
And the artist Yousra added, during her talk about the leader, saying, "Adel Imam is a great Arab artistic stature, as he carried the banner of art over his shoulder for 50 years, and he carried us too and carried our concerns,
We have collaborated in many films such as Al-Ans and Jinn, Kracon on the Street, Bobos, Birds of Darkness, Warm Winter's Night, Message to the Governor, Terror and Kebab, and others."
Boldly
confesses
wished
Yousra
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Transform your home for the better with us. We offer a wide range of painting, tiling and decorating services, including plastering, caving, and rendering. Our experts have excellent colour-matching skills and only use the highest quality trade paint to make your home look like new.
· Full preparation of ceiling and wall surfaces.
· Application of paints by hand (brushed where required), in a Matt, Vinyl Matt, Sheen, or Silk finish in colour of choice, or Traditional emulsion.
· Preparation of wood surfaces, doors, windows, skirting boards etc, and application of primers, undercoats, and finishes in a Flat oil, Eggshell, Satin, or Gloss finish.
· High gloss or Coach finishes to Doors.
· Preparation and hanging of lining papers, or wall coverings of your choice.
© 2018 VA Builders Ltd. All Rights Reserved.


text:
Zhe Wang '98
Zhe Wang '98 died on October 13, 2017, in New Brunswick, New Jersey.
(The following was provided by family)
Wang Zhe was born on June 14, 1973, and died on October 13, 2007, at Robert Wood Johnson University Hospital. She is survived by husband Jian Li, daughters Michelle Li (7), and Amy Li (6).
Zhe was born in Shanghai on June 14, 1973. She went to Luwan No 2. Elementary School and later XiangMing Middle School. She went to Bowdoin College in Maine after she graduated from high school. One year later, she went to Shanghai Foreign Language University. She came to the U.S. again in 1997. She graduated from Queens College with a master's degree in computer science in 2000. She worked for CMP Media from June 2000 to May 2003 and worked for Lehman Brothers from May 2003 to now.
← Richard A. Edwards
Charles F. Eades '56 →
1924 1925 1926 1927 1928 1929 1930 1931 1932 1933 1934 1935 1936 1937 1938 1939 1940 1941 1942 1943 1944 1945 1946 1947 1948 1949 1950 1951 1952 1953 1954 1955 1956 1957 1958 1959 1960 1961 1962 1963 1964 1965 1966 1967 1968 1969 1970 1971 1972 1973 1974 1975 1976 1977 1978 1979 1980 1981 1982 1983 1984 1985 1986 1987 1988 1989 1990 1991 1992 1993 1994 1995 1996 1997 1998 1999 2000 2001 2002 2003 2004 2005 2006 2007 2008 2009 2011 2013 2014 2015 2021 2022 2026 Faculty Friends G'68 Governing Boards Graduate Alumni Honorary Staff


A Silver Plate Spoon with Prince William in his Dress Uniform.
Royal Wedding Key Ring to 'Commemorate the Wedding of Willi..
Sherlock Holmes Stringfellow Figure Snow Globe ..
Mini Model of London's Houses of parliament, home of the Bri..
Pack of Four Pencils ..


The Muse Cell Cycle Kit allows for the facile & rapid quantitative measurements of the percentage of cells in the G0/G1 S & G2/M phases of cell cycle on the Muse Cell Analyzer.
Muse® Cell Cycle Assay Kit MSDS (material safety data sheet) or SDS, CoA and CoQ, dossiers, brochures and other available documents.
cell suspensions from a variety of cultured mammalian cell lines.
Sufficient reagent is provided for the preparation and analysis of 100 tests.
Application The Muse Cell Cycle Kit allows for the facile & rapid quantitative measurements of the percentage of cells in the G0/G1 S & G2/M phases of cell cycle on the Muse Cell Analyzer.


text:
<?php
namespace Craft;

use lsolesen\pel\PelJpeg;
use lsolesen\pel\PelIfd;
use lsolesen\pel\PelTag;
use lsolesen\pel\PelDataWindow;

class ImageResizerService extends BaseApplicationComponent
{
    // Public Methods
    // =========================================================================

    public function getPlugin()
    {
        return craft()->plugins->getPlugin('imageResizer');
    }

    public function getSettings()
    {
        return $this->getPlugin()->getSettings();
    }

    public function getSettingForAssetSource($sourceId, $setting)
    {
        $settings = $this->getPlugin()->getSettings();
        $globalSetting = $settings->$setting;

        if (isset($settings->assetSourceSettings[$sourceId])) {
            if ($settings->assetSourceSettings[$sourceId][$setting]) {
                return $settings->assetSourceSettings[$sourceId][$setting];
            }
        }

        return $globalSetting;
    }

    public function getImageQuality($filename, $quality = null)
    {
        $desiredQuality = (!$quality) ? craft()->imageResizer->getSettings()->imageQuality : $quality;

        if (IOHelper::getExtension($filename) == 'png') {
            // Valid PNG quality settings are 0-9, so normalize and flip, because we're talking about compression
            // levels, not quality, like jpg and gif.
            $quality = round(($desiredQuality * 9) / 100);
            $quality = 9 - $quality;

            if ($quality < 0) {
                $quality = 0;
            }

            if ($quality > 9) {
                $quality = 9;
            }
        } else {
            $quality = $desiredQuality;
        }

        return $quality;
    }

    public function getAssetFolders($tree, &$folderOptions)
    {
        foreach ($tree as $folder) {
            $folderOptions[] = array('label' => $folder->name, 'value' => $folder->id);

            $children = $folder->getChildren();

            if ($children) {
                $this->getAssetFolders($children, $folderOptions);
            }
        }
    }

    // Our own custom save function that respects EXIF data. Using image->saveAs strips EXIF data!
    public function saveAs($image, $filePath)
    {
        // Get existing EXIF data (if any) before the resizing
        $data = new PelDataWindow(IOHelper::getFileContents($filePath));

        // Fire the standard image-saving = again, this strips EXIF data
        $image->saveAs($filePath);

        // We can return here if we're not dealing with an EXIF-capable image
        if (!ImageHelper::canHaveExifData($filePath)) {
            return true;
        }

        $jpeg = new PelJpeg();
        $jpeg->load($data);
        $exif = $jpeg->getExif();

        // Because we've just resized the image above, but our EXIF data contains the previous
        // dimensions, we need to update that in EXIF. Unfortunately, seems like there's lots of cases...
        if ($exif) {
            $tiff = $exif->getTiff();
            $ifd0 = $tiff->getIfd();

            $exififd = $ifd0->getSubIfd(PelIfd::EXIF);
            $iifd = $ifd0->getSubIfd(PelIfd::INTEROPERABILITY);

            if (!empty($ifd0)) {
                $width = $ifd0->getEntry(PelTag::IMAGE_WIDTH);
                $length = $ifd0->getEntry(PelTag::IMAGE_LENGTH);

                if ($width != null && $length != null) {
                    $width->setValue($image->getWidth());
                    $length->setValue($image->getHeight());
                }
            }

            if (!empty($exififd)) {
                $xDimension = $exififd->getEntry(PelTag::PIXEL_X_DIMENSION);
                $yDimension = $exififd->getEntry(PelTag::PIXEL_Y_DIMENSION);

                if ($xDimension != null && $yDimension != null) {
                    $xDimension->setValue($image->getWidth());
                    $yDimension->setValue($image->getHeight());
                }
            }

            if (!empty($iifd)) {
                $relWidth = $iifd->getEntry(PelTag::RELATED_IMAGE_WIDTH);
                $relLength = $iifd->getEntry(PelTag::RELATED_IMAGE_LENGTH);

                if ($relWidth != null && $relLength != null) {
                    $relWidth->setValue($image->getWidth());
                    $relLength->setValue($image->getHeight());
                }
            }

            // Save our EXIF data
            $file = new PelJpeg($filePath);
            $file->setExif($exif);
            $file->saveFile($filePath);
        }

        return true;
    }
}

redpajama_set_name: RedPajamaGithub


I am the Team Vicar at All Saints church Whitstable and also St Peters Church Whitstable.
This online course is free for you to read and participate in by emailing me at the below email address if you would like to chat. If you are a parishioner and live in Whitstable I would be happy to meet up with you to discuss any question you may have about it.
It is a course which is designed to bring coherent arguments to the arguments in favour of there being a God. We live in a largely sceptical culture now where many people question the existence of God. This course is designed to help seekers find arguments in favour of the existence of God as well as help Christians find arguments to defend their belief in the face of criticism.
Short biography - Simon was born and grew up in Cambridge. After school he came to faith in Jerusalem on his year off. He then studied English Literature at London University for three years, securing a 2.1 BA Degree, before working for a year for Simon Hughes MP in the inner city of London dealing with housing and benefit issues. He then felt a call for the ministry and trained for the Church of England ministry at Ridley Hall Cambridge, securing a 2.1 BA Degree at Trinity College, Cambridge as part of this process. He was ordained in 1994. Simon served two curacies, one in Paddock Wood, the second in Ormskirk, before becoming vicar of St Peter and St Paul, Aylesford in 2000 and then Team Vicar at All Saints and St Peter's in the Whitstable Team Ministry in 2007.
Simon is married with Cathy who looks after the animal collection at the Fenn Bell Inn on the Isle of Grain.
New Philosophy and Faith Course Just about to Begin in March 2017!


The idea that scientific theories ought to and do symbolize metaphysical reality is known as realism It can be contrasted with anti-realism , the view that the success of science does not depend on it being correct about unobservable entities resembling electrons One form of anti-realism is idealism , the belief that the mind or consciousness is essentially the most fundamental essence, and that every mind generates its own reality.
Bacon questioned the Aristotelian concepts of formal cause and ultimate trigger, and promoted the concept that science should research the laws of "simple" natures, similar to warmth, quite than assuming that there is any specific nature, or " formal trigger ," of every advanced type of factor.
Molecular Immunology, can offer bench/desk and assist discovering accomodation. Plant cell biology lab, bench and desk house, entry to lab equipment. Biochemistry, yeast genetics and cell biology / Bench and desk area. Molecular Microbiology and Pathoecology lab. Bench and desk house, entry to lab tools (micro organism, mammalian, mouse work, synthesis and characterization of nanoparticles).
Stanovich also asserts that science avoids trying to find a "magic bullet"; it avoids the one-trigger fallacy This implies a scientist wouldn't ask merely "What's the reason behind..", but quite "What are probably the most vital causes of..". That is particularly the case in the extra macroscopic fields of science (e.g. psychology , physical cosmology ). 87 :141-47 In fact, research usually analyzes few components at once, however these are at all times added to the lengthy checklist of factors which are most vital to contemplate.


Each year participants helped make pieces of the wheel. It represents North East South and West, the Circle of Life, and the wisdom of each animal the buffalo, the eagle, the bear and the wolf.
Assisting Artists: Kathy Weiss, Heather Lyll, Diane Miele, Barb Watchman, Brenda Evjan, Donna Wakefield, and Jackie Billows of the Parkland Potters' Guild.
This 26.5 ton boulder includes the engraving of the lyrics of the 2012 Winter Games song.
Use the mallets to make music on this sculpture. It is made of 11 agricultural disc harrows. This piece represents the farming history of Stony Plain.
Enduring Connections will be unveiled as part of the Farmer's Days celebration.
This fountain is a commemoration of the RCMP centennial. The sculpture represents a Mountie leading his horse over a stream.
Painted by local artists, stop by and play one of our three outdoor pianos through the summer months.
The Poet Laureate is an honorary position with a term of two years. Our Poet Laureate will serve the community by reflecting on the life of our town as experienced and observed through written and spoken word. During their term, the Poet Laureate will be recognized as a cultural and literary ambassador, act as a champion for poetry, language and the arts, and represent our Town as Laureate during readings at civic functions and public poetry events. Stony Plain is the 6th Alberta community to have a Poet Laureate.
Lisa Mulrooney of Stony Plain has been selected as the first Poet Laureate for Stony Plain. Lisa Mulrooney is originally from Redditch, England and now makes her home in Stony Plain, Alberta. She is an active member of Edmonton's poetry community where she participates regularly in readings, festivals and events. She is the President and Co-Founder of Parkland Poets' Society in Stony Plain and serves on the boards of both Edmonton's Stroll of Poets Society and the Writers' Guild of Alberta. Lisa was recently shortlisted for the Malahat Review's 2019 Open Season Award in Poetry and her work has appeared in a number of anthologies.
Appear and present works of significance to the Citizens of the Town of Stony Plain.
Appear at least 2 community events.
The Poet Laureate retains intellectual property of all original materials produced in their official capacity.
The Poet Laureate will allow the Town of Stony Plain to retain the right to use at least one of the Poet's poems for each year the Poet Laureate is engaged in the role as Poet Laureate for the Town of Stony Plain. The Town of Stony Plain agrees to use said poem exclusively as a tool to promote awareness, literacy, and the Poet Laureate program but not for financial gain.
Any proceeds collected from an anthology or project will be used to fund future years of the Poet Laureate Program. No additional compensation will be provided to the Poet Laureate. The poet still owns the intellectual property of their poetry and may publish it elsewhere.
Made for the real Sheriff Israel Umbach of early Stony Plain. He has his chains to chain the train to the tracks until he gets the taxes from the railroad. It is made from scrap metal and bronze. It is six feet and weighs 400 lbs.
These statues represent old to young and how learning is shared. These statues were purchased for Stony Plain's 100th birthday.


Tesla Motors is a well-known company that offers electric vehicles that are packed with advantageous features making driver's life easier. These company is proud of cars that have the automatic steering with traffic aware cruise control feature, which allows the driver to sit back and enjoy the ride. According to Tesla, its cars with autopilot feature can avoid collisions from the front and sides, and also drive safely without driving off the road. What is more, such car can automatically drive to your door when you need it, and this can be done with a single phone call. That's right – you can call your car to pick you up without a personal driver. Does that sound like a miracle? Maybe, but among all useful features, we can see a big threat coming up, considering that the number of cyber attacks proliferates rapidly. It seems that Tesla and other cars are the next targets of hackers.
A team of experts from China's Keen Security Lab has conducted a study and discovered that Tesla's Model S is full of vulnerabilities allowing hackers to take control of it even without having car's keys while the car is in Parking or Driving Mode. It has been proved that car's system can be hacked remotely, and even from 12 miles away. The researchers took control of the car by exploiting Tesla's in-car web browser – they were able to control the majority of car's functions, even to stop it while it's moving. It was also possible to open car's sunroof, light up steering lamps, move car seat's position, unlock car's doors, control dashboard computer screen, activate indicators and also windscreen wipers, besides, move car's wing mirrors. Tesla Motors responded to Keen Security Lab's report quickly and patched the security vulnerabilities right away.
It is not only Tesla that is vulnerable to cyber attacks – other smart cars are at risk, too. Another good example of car-hacking is an attack on 2014 Jeep Cherokee in 2015. American hackers were also able to take remote control of its steering, disable car's breaks, mess with the speedometer, unlock or lock the car. Just imagine – you drive down the road in your brand new car, and then suddenly you realize that you cannot control it anymore? It sounds like a horror story, but car hacking is the future. It goes without saying that hackers can put driver's life at a high risk. These experiments show that cars and other smart devices can become tomorrow's target of cyber criminals, and everyone should keep up with latest security news. No matter what smart devices you have, install their latest software updates as soon as they get released – updates can fix security vulnerabilities.
This entry was posted on 2016-09-22 at 03:11 and is filed under News, Security.


Starting the year with 5 tips from 8 games is more than acceptable - because if you can tip at almost 63% all season long - you'll be in contention in nearly every mate v mate tipping comp you are in.
Mind you - if you want to win any online comp - the minimum you need each week is 5/8 and truth be told you need 6/7s with regular 8s to be amongst the tipping gurus.
You almost certainly won't get 6/7 correct suggestions here every week - but yes, that's the goal!
Also please note - due to time constraints this year - there will be no pick reasoning, just cold hard tips most weeks. Apologies if you need more, but that's all the time I can give it - just know that whatever reasoning I have goes into the choice of tip.
Game of the Round is fairly clear with Souths v Easts - and the way Canberra played in Round 1 may suggest their clash with the Warriors on Sunday night could be very entertaining.
Agree with my Round 2 Tips?


CHANNEL ISLANDS HARBOR — Volunteers are needed — aboard dinghies and kayaks, as well as on shore — to help collect litter and debris from Channel Islands Harbor. And locals are being encouraged to dispose of and recycle a variety of unwanted items during an annual Channel Islands Harbor Community Cleanup. Both events are set for the weekend of Sept. 22-23.
The annual CI Beach Community Services-hosted Community Cleanup Day — set for 9 a.m.-2:30 p.m. Saturday, Sept. 22 — will allow locals to recycle or dispose of electronic waste, bulky items, appliances (no refrigerators or air conditioners), residential yard waste, metal, cardboard, paper, plastic items and more, at no cost. (No hazardous waste, tires or propane tanks will be accepted.) Vintage Marina Partners will provide the event's trash collection site, at Channel Islands Harbor Marina, 3850 S. Harbor Blvd.
On Sunday, Sept. 23, boaters and other volunteers can use dinghies or kayaks — or walk the water's edge on foot — to collect litter and debris during the community's annual Harbor Cleanup Day, from 9 a.m.-1 p.m.
All Harbor Cleanup Day participants can enjoy a free lunch after the cleanup at 1:30 p.m., hosted by Anacapa Yacht Club. Volunteers will meet at Anacapa YC, 2810 S. Harbor Blvd. There will also be a raffle.
For more information, call Vintage Marina at (805) 984-3366.


5 Stone Games: What would you play if you GURPS didn't exist?
I discovered GURPS around 1989 or 90 when I was a young gamer. I've collected books, read books, play a few sessions though surprisingly few for how much I like the game, GM'd a bit more and done some comped play-testing.
It was my very favorite system for many years, the only one I regularly bought anything for.
It stayed at number one only supplanted by its offspring, the Unisystem written by GURPS Voodoo alum C.J Carella .
Unisystem famous for Buffy and All Flesh Must Be Eaten is basically the child of GURPS and World of Darkness, using a simpler system of character generation more akin to WoD but with a strong focus on verisimilitude like GURPS has.
However imagine a hideous world without GURPS or Unisystem would I'd still be gaming?
I'd almost certainly be playing D&D of some kind, I still do , the Fantasy Trip if it existed and I discovered it and likely some kind of system that covered modern fantasy.
I'd also be playing BRP/Call of Cthulhu probably a lot of it. My 1st serious RPG was Runequest 2 and it was and is a great game.